Corvette ZR1 power steering rack: next project?
Topic started by: Rickady88GT, Date: 01-05-2006 02:06 PM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000124.html


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #1, 01-05-2006 02:06 PM
      I just got a Corvette ZR1 power steering rack and am planning on putting it into my next power steering equipt Fiero. So far it looks like a good choice. Almost the same travel as the Fiero. The Fiero has 5" of travel and the ZR1 rack has about .5" less. With wide tires this means nothing. And the ZR1 has 2 turns lock to lock were the Fiero is almost 3.5 turns lock to lock. The ZR1 rack moves 2.25" per turn of the steering wheel and the Fiero rack gear moves 1.5" per turn of the steering wheel. To put it in other words the ZR1 rack is like a GO CART the steering ratio is VERRRRRRY FAST.
Has anyone done a Vette rack? I think I saw Rockcrawl do it before?

The 84-94 Vette racks are basicaly the same. the ZR1 or "sport" rack has 2 turns lock to lock. The rest have 2.5 turns lock to lock.



sspeedstreet (sspeedstreet@verizon.net) MSG #2, 01-05-2006 04:02 PM
      Power steering: bah! humbug! GIRLIEMAN!!

There, it's been said, no further such posts accepted.

Crap, Rick. You're making my install obsolete before its started.

Need a test bed?

Neil



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #3, 01-05-2006 08:45 PM
      So far the Vette rack looks like it will work better.
Sorry, my dig cam batteries are dead no pics, yet.


Formula88 MSG #4, 01-05-2006 08:51 PM
      If the ZR1 rack looks that close, does that mean all C4 racks are gonna be just as good (maybe slower ratio, but the same dimensions and travel, etc.)

Looking forward to seeing this. I'm seriously considering power steering on my Formula.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #5, 01-05-2006 11:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

If the ZR1 rack looks that close, does that mean all C4 racks are gonna be just as good (maybe slower ratio, but the same dimensions and travel, etc.)

Looking forward to seeing this. I'm seriously considering power steering on my Formula.


I don't know about the other Vette racks? I never got into the part numbers or when any changes were made between them. But I will do that because I wont put a ZR1 rack into every Fiero I drive. That FAST ratio might be kinda fast for a daily driver.
After I get this into a car and get it working I will buy several more Vette racks. As it looks right now I wont need to cut into the spare tire tub to clear the hydraulic lines. It looks like they will fit under the stock tire tub and allow for a spare tire to fit. One of the draw backs of the "F" body rack is that you cant fit a spare tire into the tire tub because of the placement of the hydraulic in put and out put lines.
The mounting points of the Vette rack are a breeze but the rack extension adapters are more complex. Take the good with the bad I guess?


fieroguru MSG #6, 01-06-2006 04:38 AM
      I believe all Z51 equiped C4's will have the 2.0 ratio rack.

My 86 was a non-Z51 car, but had been upgraded with the 2.0 rack. Biggest issue is the turn signals may not cancel around turns due to the steering wheel not being turned enough. You might be able to swap the turn signal assy from a Z51 car to fix this though.

Rodney (rodney@rodneydickman.com) MSG #7, 01-06-2006 09:06 AM
      Make sure it is a front steer or turning the wheel left will make the car go right. We looked at Corvette racks when we did that steering rack R&D and I don't remember any Corvette racks look promising. Thay may not have had a C5 rack at that time.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #8, 01-06-2006 01:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:

Make sure it is a front steer or turning the wheel left will make the car go right. We looked at Corvette racks when we did that steering rack R&D and I don't remember any Corvette racks look promising. Thay may not have had a C5 rack at that time.

All of the Vette racks are front steer. In fact the Vette rack looks like a cross breed between a Fiero rack and a Chevette rack. with a few other changes.
I only needed to make a new mount on the driver side. The pass side I used the stock Fiero mount. I used the Fiero rubber mount from the pass side and slid it onto the hydraulic cylinder of the Vette rack and was able to bolt it down with only a slight mod to the rubber mount. The Hydraulic lines come out of the cylinder straight up, so a front mount battery will be tight. The input shaft is the same as the Fiero and seems to be oriented the same direction as the Fiero, so there may be no need to index the steering wheel after installation.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 01-06-2006).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #9, 01-06-2006 01:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sspeedstreet:

Power steering: bah! humbug! GIRLIEMAN!!

There, it's been said, no further such posts accepted.

Crap, Rick. You're making my install obsolete before its started.

Need a test bed?

Neil

I am always on the lookout for a better rack for the Fiero Infact the best rack seems to be the Fiero rack with the power steering "stuff" from other racks to convert the Fiero rack over to power steering. BUT the problem is that none of the GM rack other than the Chevette rack has the same input shaft angle. So a custom rack and pinion will need to be machined $$$$$. So I keep looking for a conversion. I could use the Cylinder from the chevette and the steering spool from the Chevette and put them on a Fiero rack and convert the Fiero rack to Power assist, but it would still have a weak ratio.



ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #10, 01-06-2006 01:30 PM
      So when you go to a quicker ratio, wouldn't this mean the already twitchy steering will get even twitchier? (is that a word?)

Gonna need to be hyped up on something to keep you on the road at high(er) speeds... Am I right?

btw- ZR1, sounds expensive.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 01-06-2006).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #11, 01-06-2006 02:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:

So when you go to a quicker ratio, wouldn't this mean the already twitchy steering will get even twitchier? (is that a word?)

Gonna need to be hyped up on something to keep you on the road at high(er) speeds... Am I right?

btw- ZR1, sounds expensive.


I love the "F" body ratio. I never thaught it was too fast or twitchy. So a slightly faster ratio may put it over the edge? or maybe not? But it is worth a try because the standard Vette racks could be used in place of the ZR1 rack if the ratio is too fast.


jscott1 MSG #12, 01-06-2006 02:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:

So when you go to a quicker ratio, wouldn't this mean the already twitchy steering will get even twitchier?

Maybe, but Fiero steering shouldn't be twitchy in the first place. That 3.5 turns lock to lock doesn't qualify as twitchy in my book anyway. I preferred driving the f-body with its 2.2 turns LTL.

And no a stock Fiero doesn't need power steering but a lot of us are running tires one, two, three (and more) plus sizes bigger than stock.

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #13, 01-06-2006 02:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
Maybe, but Fiero steering shouldn't be twitchy in the first place. That 3.5 turns lock to lock doesn't qualify as twitchy in my book anyway.

It does on a short wheelbase...



MikeW (mvictorferrari@aol.com) MSG #14, 01-06-2006 02:40 PM
      I believe the ZR1 rack was a ZR1 only item. Could be the amount of assist inside. I'll try to remember to check some part numbers since I have the ZR1 and later part numbers on CD.

MikeW (mvictorferrari@aol.com) MSG #15, 01-06-2006 08:24 PM
      Didn't go to well, looks like GM doesn't sell the entire units and I'm missing the gear application charts. Looks like there may have been an early and late '89 car. Late '89 thru 90 have the same number for the steering gear. 91/92 has another. I have no number for later gears. As far as remanufactured Delco gear kits, again the show 2 different 89 cars. Looks like late 89 thru 96 uses kit 26044839 (Delco number is 369090) I would assume the reman/Delco is most of the unit. Numbers may be superceded by now. Best I could do.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #16, 01-07-2006 02:59 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by MikeW:

I believe the ZR1 rack was a ZR1 only item. Could be the amount of assist inside. I'll try to remember to check some part numbers since I have the ZR1 and later part numbers on CD.

I don't know much about the Vette racks, this is the only one I have seen up close but one strange thing about this rack is that it has the small diameter hydraulic cylinder like the Chevette and 88 Fiero (the black still part of an 88 rack is an unfinished hydraulic cylinder) but I have seen smaller GM cars us the larger Hydraulic cylinders than this Vette rack. So if the other Vette racks use the larger cylinder they will have less effort to steer than this rack. Thus this rack would have more "Road Feel"


THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #17, 01-09-2006 02:21 PM
      *Bump*

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #18, 01-09-2006 03:45 PM
      Adapters are being made at the machine shop. So I will try to get some pics of what I have so far.

THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #19, 01-09-2006 07:13 PM
      Good!

JG

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #20, 01-10-2006 04:08 PM
     
Here are a few pics, gotta run off to work now.



THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #21, 01-12-2006 04:04 PM
      Awesome!

JG


madcurl (madcurl@fiero-performance.com) MSG #22, 01-12-2006 06:19 PM
      Nice.

gascarracer (ernestbauhofer@fuse.net) MSG #23, 01-15-2006 10:57 PM
      Bump



mcaanda (mcaanda@gmail.com) MSG #24, 01-15-2006 11:07 PM
      With only access to 56k I finally gave up on the internet, but today I finally got to check out this thread being that Im back home.
Is this planned to be placed into the black GT?

Drop me a call tomarrow and lets see if we can't get togeather for lunch / dinner. I think that I hear the BOCK calling.

--Allen

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #25, 01-16-2006 12:52 PM
      Yes, I plan on putting this one into the Black 88GT with a smog legal 3800SC and sell it.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #26, 01-16-2006 04:10 PM
     

Here is the car that will get the rack.






gascarracer (ernestbauhofer@fuse.net) MSG #27, 01-18-2006 01:14 AM
     
Bump


Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #28, 01-18-2006 02:20 AM
      That car is missing its rocker panels! :-D

Rick, just wanted to say your work is amazing. Can't wait to see where you take this one!

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #29, 01-18-2006 11:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:

That car is missing its rocker panels! :-D


Thanks. The rest of the body is on the floor. The car dose need some work, but over all it looks good.



darkhorizon MSG #30, 01-18-2006 11:48 PM
      I hear that people hate the stock 88 rack, but I like it just fine, but I like the pre-88's better. Overall I think they serve their duty, I am 135lbs and can get in and out of parking spots really easy, who needs power steering?

Can the autoX guys really see much of an improvement from a Vette rack?

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #31, 01-19-2006 08:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

I hear that people hate the stock 88 rack, but I like it just fine, but I like the pre-88's better. Overall I think they serve their duty, I am 135lbs and can get in and out of parking spots really easy, who needs power steering?

Can the autoX guys really see much of an improvement from a Vette rack?

You are either joking or misinformed?
I have never heard anyone say they hate the 88 Fiero rack? Even I think the 88 steering is a good step up from the 84-87 Fiero's. And that the 88 is fine without power steering. BUT if the tires are larger the steering in an 88 can get heavy too, so some may just want an extra boost for the larger tires. I just want faster ratio steering. So the ONLY way to get faster ratio without adding more effort to the steering wheel is to do a power steering rack with a faster ratio.

I have said that I drove an 87 GT for years and HATE the slow ratio steering an heavy feel of the manual Fiero rack in the pre88's. No such thing as "road feel" in the pre88 Fiero, just a slow ratio rack that is hard to turn at walking speed. The power steering I put in my 88 Fiero feels VERY stock and the "road feel" is just fine.

"Who needs power steering?" Let me ask you this."Have you ever driven a Fiero with close ratio power steering?" I can tell that you never have or you would not even ask "who needs power steering?" People want ALL KINDS of mods on the cars they drive, why is it strange that people want power steering? Who needs 12" subs in a Fiero? Who needs a V8? Who needs new paint? I "need" power steering because I want FAST ratio steering (2.25 turns lock to lock) without extra effort. Others can answer your question with the reason that fits their needs.


Can AutoXers benefit from FAST ratio steering? Hmmm YES. First it is ALLLLLLOT less work for the driver to get around and second it does not take any HP or TQ from the engine. The only time the pump needs to make pressure is wen the car is turning. This is RARELY at a time when full throttle is used. The parasitic loss of the pump is null and void.



mcaanda (mcaanda@gmail.com) MSG #32, 01-20-2006 01:04 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

I hear that people hate the stock 88 rack, but I like it just fine, but I like the pre-88's better. Overall I think they serve their duty, I am 135lbs and can get in and out of parking spots really easy, who needs power steering?

He who is apparently 135 pounds, and likes the 3+ lock to lock ratio of the stock Fiero dosent.

I take it that you have got to have stock rims / tires on your Fiero. Take a set of very large aftermarket rims, ie: 17x8's w/ a 35mm offset on an 88’s for example, and see if you still think that the stock "feel" serves it's purpose.
I'd bet a Super Sized Double Bacon Cheeseburger from Carl’s Jr. that you'd defer to not...

 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:
Can the autoX guys really see much of an improvement from a Vette rack?

Nope - there's no improvement; Until it's installed into their Fiero anyhow.

Have you been to / participated in any Auto X event? With a 3+ lock to lock you’re going to be spinning a lot of steering wheel around vs the guy that has a 2.o lock to lock ratio who is also sipping on his bourbon while cruzing through the cones while compared to the guy w/ the stock setup.

[This message has been edited by mcaanda (edited 01-20-2006).]

Flyguyeddy (be329@lab.icc.edu) MSG #33, 01-21-2006 01:01 PM
      it the vette steering rack the same length? it appears to be shorter, however i have never had a fiero rack apart, so i dont know for sure where everything ends/begins under those dust boots....

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #34, 01-21-2006 03:19 PM
      Yes the Vette rack is short, so is the "F" Body rack. It is about 5" shorter. That is what the adapters are for. They move the tie rods out to the stock Fiero location.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #35, 01-22-2006 06:11 PM
      Some new pics

the custom mount. I made it of a few pieces.

The pieces tack welded to the Xmember for fitting



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #36, 01-22-2006 06:21 PM
     

GOOD NEWS the rack fits in and the spare tire tub fits over it without any cutting for the hydro lines. I even have the room for a front relocation battery kit.

This vew hs hard to understand, but it is of the steering spool looking from the grond up into the hole that the steering shaft goes thru into the car. You can see that the hydro lines wont get in the way of anything.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #37, 01-22-2006 06:27 PM
      With the trie tub out you can see the rack a little better.

And with the steering shaft on you can see the hole for the steering shaft will need just a tad bit of grinding to clear the newly oriented shaft.


Zac88GT (snarfboot@hotmail.com) MSG #38, 01-22-2006 07:49 PM
      the f body rack is only ~1.5 inches shorter than the fiero rack, so that's about 3/4 per side. and the vette rack is about 2.5 shorter per side. just wondering what your doing for the bellows ( tie rod boots) if your making adapters to locate the tie rods in the original locations, just curious if the vette boots will extend an extra 2.5"

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #39, 01-22-2006 08:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Zac88GT:

the f body rack is only ~1.5 inches shorter than the Fiero rack, so that's about 3/4 per side. and the vette rack is about 2.5 shorter per side. just wondering what your doing for the bellows ( tie rod boots) if your making adapters to locate the tie rods in the original locations, just curious if the vette boots will extend an extra 2.5"

I don't remember off hand exactly how much shorter the Vette rack is than the Fiero, but the extensions for the "F" body and Vette are off set towards the driver side. The "F" body extensions are something like .35" on the driver side and the pass side is 1.15"


So if the Vette rack is 5" short then the driver side extension will be 1.5" and the pass side will be 3.5". So the dust boot on the driver side will be OK with the extra travel. The pass side will have a hard dust cover to extend the boot out 3". That way the dust boots will be OK. Also the small end of the boot does not need to clamp in the stock location. That gives you about an extra inch.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 01-22-2006).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #40, 01-23-2006 03:33 PM
      I liked the location of the rack so I had the mount welded as is.

After the mount was welded I cleaned and painted the Xmember.

And one quick pic of the rack on the Xmember shows the steering spool to Xmember clearance.


Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #41, 01-23-2006 05:55 PM
      Okay, please pardon my ignorance here.

The rack is offset toward the driver's side, making the extension on the driver's side shorter.
Conversely, this makes the extension on the passenger side longer.
Then you're having to "clearance" the opening in the firewall (appears to be the left side of the hole, from the pic) to make room for the relocated steering shaft.
Why not move the whole rack to the right, just a bit? Is something in the way?
Obviously I'm missing something.

Edit - Checking the pics again, it looks like one of the hydraulic lines is very near the right side clamp.
By moving the assembly to the right and snaking the clamp under the line, would that make the offset just as far off, in the other direction?



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #42, 01-24-2006 03:05 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Okay, please pardon my ignorance here.

The rack is offset toward the driver's side, making the extension on the driver's side shorter.
Conversely, this makes the extension on the passenger side longer.
Then you're having to "clearance" the opening in the firewall (appears to be the left side of the hole, from the pic) to make room for the relocated steering shaft.
Why not move the whole rack to the right, just a bit? Is something in the way?
Obviously I'm missing something.

Edit - Checking the pics again, it looks like one of the hydraulic lines is very near the right side clamp.
By moving the assembly to the right and snaking the clamp under the line, would that make the offset just as far off, in the other direction?


This is just how I chose to do it. One of my goals was to have a totally stock front spare tire tub fit over the rack. If you look at some of the pics of the tire tub installed over the rack you will notice that I don't have room to move the rack over any further than it already is. But if some one else does this swap they could move the rack any were they want. They will just have to cut into the tire tub.

I don't see any adverse effects from the offset rack. The rack end adapters are made to center the rack ends so the tie rods are in the stock Fiero location. In fact the suspension geometry is totally stock after the conversion. A brand new set of Fiero inner and outer tie rod ends will bolt rite up to the adapters.

The amount of clearance needed is VERRY little. The manufacturing tolerances between cars may vary, so some cars may not even need it. If the shaft were at such a bad position I could just relocate the rack just a bit. But it is just so minor that I did not bother.



Formula88 MSG #43, 01-24-2006 12:09 PM
      This sounds like the best power rack yet.
What engines are you running in these power steering cars? I'm curious if you're using something that comes with a power steering pump, or having to add one.

I'm considering a V8 swap, but I definitely want power steering. If I use an Archie kit, that means adding a power steering pump to the setup.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #44, 01-24-2006 01:11 PM
      This 88GT will get power steering and a smog legal 3800SC. The engine comes with a pump. BUT I plan on adding a pump to the stock 2.8 5 speed for a little while to see how the totally stock Fiero works with power steering, then do the swap.



Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #45, 01-24-2006 02:21 PM
      Very good info, Rick. Thanks!

I'm wondering how "hefty" an electric pump would have to be.
I kind of like the idea of not having to mess with an engine driven pump, and all the associated plumbing and belts.


Formula88 MSG #46, 01-24-2006 03:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

This 88GT will get power steering and a smog legal 3800SC. The engine comes with a pump. BUT I plan on adding a pump to the stock 2.8 5 speed for a little while to see how the totally stock Fiero works with power steering, then do the swap.

Cool. I'll be interested to see how you add the pump. I may do that so I can get the steering done first before I do the engine swap - that way I'm not trying to do everything all at once.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #47, 01-24-2006 03:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Very good info, Rick. Thanks!

I'm wondering how "hefty" an electric pump would have to be.
I kind of like the idea of not having to mess with an engine driven pump, and all the associated plumbing and belts.

The electric pump "sounds" like the best idea. But in my opinion it is not. From what I have seen others do, the electric pump is not going to work out as good as a mechanical pump. GM did not do the electric pump because it added extra cost to a car that already cost to much at the time. I guess it could be done, but for now the most reliable system is a mechanical pump. I am working on a belt driven pump for the stock 2.8 V6. I would rather deal with some brackets belt and hydro line than try to figure out how to make an electric pump turn on and off reliably, consistently, seamlessly, quietly and do all this and last for 20 years. You have to ask your self "Why did GM take so long to use EHPS in cars?" It is more complex (less parts but the parts used are much more complex) and the controls needed to run it properly are more expensive. In fact the ONLY reason GM is using it now is to "increase fuel economy" And that is so minute that it is more of a sales (EPA) scam than real money saved.



Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #48, 01-24-2006 06:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
The electric pump "sounds" like the best idea. But in my opinion it is not. ...You have to ask your self "Why did GM take so long to use EHPS in cars?"

True. Good point.

One thing I just happened to remember...
The MR2 uses an electric pump for its power steering system. All of the engineering has already been done.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 01-24-2006).]

Daviero MSG #49, 01-24-2006 07:00 PM
      A few questions:

1)For this conversion is it required that the front subframe be extracted from the car as you did, or in your opinion is the extra work in doing this just more than made up over the effort of working from the underside?

2)From your observations of the Chevette racks, would the same procedure be required for a Chevette rack?

I plan on a power rack once my N* is in my 88GT - I have left the pump on the engine for this purpose. I'm thinking the car might be a little too squirly for any aggressive driving without it. Your installation is very appealing although the front subframe removal doesn't excite me, thus the questions. Please update us on the "twitchyness" of the ride when you are complete.



FieroRanger (philip@wahlbom.com) MSG #50, 01-24-2006 07:39 PM
      I'm not too swift on suspension and steering geometry, but your PS project has inspired me to follow suit. But what about "Bump Steer"; the change in steering direction (or lack there of) caused by the up and down motion of the front suspension. I have heard a lot of concern about this on the forum.

My question (and please correct me if I am wrong): If you located the ends of your new steering rack in the same 3D point as a stock rack, then there will be no change in bump steer.? And this is why you built adapters to extend you steering rack to the same 3D point as a stock rack, rather than a custom length tie rod?



Jermz238 (halljer221@gmail.com) MSG #51, 01-24-2006 11:34 PM
      my steering in my 86 was a dream, good road feel and other than the obvious very-low-speed steering effort required, the only fault i found was at very high speeds i got front end lift, making the steering very light (and unsafe). that, however, is remedied by a front lip to increase front downforce. i admit i have the stock GT wheels, and slightly smaller-than-stock tires (195/60/15 all the way around, i was not too happy when i saw the previous owner had done that)

also i'd be a little hesitant to put power steering (especially and extremely tight one like the ZR1) in a car that is prone to oversteer already, like MR cars are. i've seen my fair share of MR2's spinning out into the center divide because they jerked the wheel a little too much...


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #52, 01-25-2006 02:53 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

The MR2 uses an electric pump for its power steering system. All of the engineering has already been done.

I have seen that in the electric pump threads. But getting the pump to run under a said speed and then turn off at a said speed is the problem. It is not as simple as it sounds. Should the pump "ramp up" and "ramp down" so you don't feel the sudden rush of assist or loss of assist at that limit? If the pump turns off at, lets say 12mph it should should not turn on again tell some were around 10mph so the pump does not send that boost on-off-on-off-on-off feeling in a traffic jamb or parking lot at 12mph. I could go on about the complexities of it but the bottom line is that it can be done, but that does not mean it is easier or better than a mechanical pump. I would love a EHPS system for all my cars, but for now I will just work on finding the best rack. Then maybe the search for a better pump?

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #53, 01-25-2006 03:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Daviero:

1)For this conversion is it required that the front subframe be extracted from the car as you did, or in your opinion is the extra work in doing this just more than made up over the effort of working from the underside?

2)From your observations of the Chevette racks, would the same procedure be required for a Chevette rack?

I plan on a power rack once my N* is in my 88GT - I have left the pump on the engine for this purpose. I'm thinking the car might be a little too squirly for any aggressive driving without it. Your installation is very appealing although the front subframe removal doesn't excite me, thus the questions. Please update us on the "twitchyness" of the ride when you are complete.

1) Yes ,..and No. Yes I "needed" to take the front end out because I am actually "R&Ding" the system from scratch. I also am rebuilding the entire front end with new bushings, springs, shocks, inner and outer tie rods, sway bar links, ball joints and rack. So after all the work it should look new too so I cleaned and painted it also.
BUT for some people that don't need to do all the rebuilding, I guess they could just do it in the car? This is not the first power steering system I have done, It is my third. And from what I have done, I would say that it is better to take out the front end. Heck the front end is easy to take out and put in. I think I could have the front end out of a car in an Hour? under two for sure.

2) Yes, for the most part. The Chevette rack is VERRY short and will need lengthy adapters, like the Corvette if you want to keep the geometry "safe"
*my opinion* I don't like the Chevette rack and would not put one in any of my cars because for the effort that goes into such a swap the payback is very little.

"twichyness"......I drive an 88GT with a Camaro SS ws6 power steering rack in it. The ratio of the "F" body rack is VERY fast. I LOVE IT. I never got in a jamb or in trouble because of the fast ratio. In fact my 2002 Olds Intrigue has a steering ratio even faster than the Camaro SS You just get used to it, anything less just SUX. Drive the car with the respect it deserves and you will be OK. Know your car and know its limits. I never spun my Fiero, and yes I have driven it HARD. The car is so solid that at 112mph I can let go of the wheel (NEVER DO THIS IT IS STUPID) and it it will track like a train.
The entire suspension set up will be the "life or death" of the handling of your car. If the car feels strange, you may have a problem and should get it fixed. But the fast steering ratio is of no concern with me.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #54, 01-25-2006 03:39 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroRanger:

I'm not too swift on suspension and steering geometry, but your PS project has inspired me to follow suit. But what about "Bump Steer"; the change in steering direction (or lack there of) caused by the up and down motion of the front suspension. I have heard a lot of concern about this on the forum.

My question (and please correct me if I am wrong): If you located the ends of your new steering rack in the same 3D point as a stock rack, then there will be no change in bump steer.? And this is why you built adapters to extend you steering rack to the same 3D point as a stock rack, rather than a custom length tie rod?

Yes the bump steer is a problem for people that just drop a rack in and let it fly. In my case the bump steer would be even worse because I off set the rack over to the driver side by a substantial amount. This would cause one wheel to have a MUCH more radical bump steer curve than the other side of the car. So this is why I made adapters for the conversion.
After it is all installed, the stock 88 Fiero suspension will have totally stock geomitry but converted to power assist with a faster ratio. One of my goals with this rack was to NOT change any of the factory geometry. So for any one that wants to do this swap like I did all you have to do is take very good measurements of the stock rack and its exact location on the Xmember before you take it off (even take pics of the rack) Then put the new rack in the same exact location with respect to the steering spool. The steering spool should be in the stock location and the rest of the rack will fall in line. Make sure that the center line of the rack gear is in the same exact plane as the stock Fiero rack. Then work on the mounts. After you got the rack mounted you can install the adapters and stock Fiero tie rods. NEVER use custom length tie rods with stock street car suspension. That will cause bump steer.
I worked just about every thing out on paper first, then started fabing. So far I have not redone or changed any part of the swap that I had planed out.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 01-25-2006).]

Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #55, 01-25-2006 04:00 AM
      Thanks Rick. I'll be quiet about the pump, now.

Excellent job with the rack!
Some day...


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #56, 01-25-2006 04:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jermz238:

my steering in my 86 was a dream, good road feel and other than the obvious very-low-speed steering effort required, the only fault i found was at very high speeds i got front end lift, making the steering very light (and unsafe). that, however, is remedied by a front lip to increase front downforce. i admit i have the stock GT wheels, and slightly smaller-than-stock tires (195/60/15 all the way around, i was not too happy when i saw the previous owner had done that)

also i'd be a little hesitant to put power steering (especially and extremely tight one like the ZR1) in a car that is prone to oversteer already, like MR cars are. i've seen my fair share of MR2's spinning out into the center divide because they jerked the wheel a little too much...


I don't "feel" any front end lift with my car. The lift is caused by the cooling air ducted thru the radiator and back under the car. Nuder the hood of the car the air cant get out fast enough so it pushes up on the large surface aria of the hood and "lifts" the car at high speed. If you have this problem you should give the air a route to escape. I vented my front compartment in 5 places to get the high pressure out from under the car. I put two vents in each headlight bucket to let the air out thru the wheel wells and fender vents. This is a great idea because the air is not forced back under the car. The vented air is sent out the sides of the car and that will prevent pressure under the car. Then I also have the hood vents. I have NEVER had a problem with "lift" My car feels like a rock at all speeds.

I have driven Fieros for a long time and have only spun once. It was my fault and it was an 87GT and had nothing to do with the "over steer" I just down shifted one gear to low and the rear wheels compression stoped and lost traction around a corner.

My 88GT has a very fast steering ratio (WS6 "F" Body power steering) and is a blast to drive. The rack takes 2.25 turns lock to lock and has NEVER seemed twitchy. The Vette rack is faster but I don't have any reason to think it will be a problem. How many stories have you heard of where people spun out in their Olds Intrigue because they jerked the wheel to much? My Olds Intrigue has a VERRY fast ratio steering rack ( why, I don't know) and I have never heard stories of them being a problem? The problem is that people just don't have the skill to drive the cars that " are prone to over steer" They need to get to know the car before they push the limits. If you just jump in and go balls out in a car you don't know very well, you are asking for a wreck.



Jermz238 (halljer221@gmail.com) MSG #57, 01-25-2006 07:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

The lift is caused by the cooling air ducted thru the radiator and back under the car. Nuder the hood of the car the air cant get out fast enough so it pushes up on the large surface aria of the hood and "lifts" the car at high speed. If you have this problem you should give the air a route to escape. I vented my front compartment in 5 places to get the high pressure out from under the car. I put two vents in each headlight bucket to let the air out thru the wheel wells and fender vents. This is a great idea because the air is not forced back under the car. The vented air is sent out the sides of the car and that will prevent pressure under the car.

very true, i've had someone tell me this before, thanks for the reminder.
 
quote

How many stories have you heard of where people spun out in their Olds Intrigue because they jerked the wheel to much? My Olds Intrigue has a VERRY fast ratio steering rack ( why, I don't know) and I have never heard stories of them being a problem? The problem is that people just don't have the skill to drive the cars that " are prone to over steer" They need to get to know the car before they push the limits. If you just jump in and go balls out in a car you don't know very well, you are asking for a wreck.

how many oldsmobile intrigues are on an MR platform? FF cars have a nasty habit of understeering, so its rather hard to spin out. that is part of the reason why Jane Q Citizen likes FWD, they are VERY forgiving about crappy drivers, as long as you dont try to deliberately spin the car (and even then its not that easy, being a Honda owner/driver). No, FF cars are much more liable to just slam head-on into something then to spin out.

agreed on the problem, many people do try to drive like they are Vin Diesel or Paul Walker before they even get the feel for their cars, and thats tragic but Darwin always gets his man.



Fastback 86 MSG #58, 01-27-2006 04:57 AM
      Possible dumb question, but can a power steering rack be used without the power part? Could someone who just wants a better ratio do this and cap off the hydraulic inputs and outputs on the rack and use it as a manual rack, or does the fluid also lubricate the PS rack or something?

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #59, 01-27-2006 12:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fastback 86:

Possible dumb question, but can a power steering rack be used without the power part? Could someone who just wants a better ratio do this and cap off the hydraulic inputs and outputs on the rack and use it as a manual rack, or does the fluid also lubricate the PS rack or something?

The power steering rack is VERRRY hard to steer without the engine running. I drove Bob's V8 Ferrari kit with huge front tires on a stock manual rack pre88 Fiero and that was easier to turn than my "F" body power rack without the assist of the pump. So to answer your question, Yes you could do it for the faster ratio. But No it is not worth it. If you do all the work for a rack swap then the pump should be done too.

I have let several people drive my 3.5 S* Fiero to show them how the power steering feels. All of them liked it, it really does feel natural. In the parking lot the power steering is smooth and "modern" feeling but not Caddy easy like some may think. My car feels very "normal" for a power assisted sports car. Then you get it on the road and the fast steering ratio is a welcome upgrade. It feels like the car is on auto pilot. The car responds perfectly to my commands with less effort on my part, and I mean less turning of the wheel. The actual effort to turn the wheel even at high speed feels normal to me, not at all like it has to much assist. I know this is hard to explain, so that is why I let others drive the car and see for themselves how it feels. You almost got to drive it too, didn't you? I think we ran out of time or something like that at the last San Simeon, West Fest, or Coast Run? Heck just ask me next time we get together for a ride and you will see what I mean. The funny thing is that the first rack I did in someone else's car, he refused to test drive my car first to see if he likes how it feels. He has been in my car several times even at triple digits, but he refused to drive it for himself. Now his 88GT has power steering and he LOVES it. But his front wheels are larger than most Fiero's rear wheels

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 01-27-2006).]

Fastback 86 MSG #60, 01-27-2006 07:09 PM
      Nope, met up with you at a bunch of events, but haven't driven your car yet. Always wondered how that S* performed. I'll have to give it a try next time I see you.

The reason I asked is that I have a 3.4 set up like the stock 2.8, which means no PS pump or really any good way to add one. I'm sure that even if I found one, CARB would decide its illegal with my engine or something ridiculous like that. I'd like a better ratio, but it looks like I'm going to have to live with it, unless someone comes up with new internals for the stock rack that will lower the ratio, but I doubt that very much.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #61, 02-02-2006 10:29 PM
      Today I got the custom rack end adapters. They are made of Molly because the mild steel may be to soft for the close tolerance of the left side. So to be on the safe side the adapters were made of a stronger metal.
Most of the rebuild parts are in from the Fiero Store and Rodney Dickman to do a TOTAL rebuild of the front end. As of this stage of the conversion/front end rebuild I am into this for about $400.00. I do not have the shocks or springs yet and the lower rubber bushings and sway bar bushings will be reused. If I can find the new lower A arm bushings and sway bar bushings I get them?


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #62, 02-04-2006 01:47 PM
      This is the first set of adapters I got from the machine shop. If I have any more made I will make some changes to them and maybe sell them? I made this set so the stock plastic internal bump stop can be used, you just take them off of the old rack and put them on the adapters. Or I could just have some new custom bump stops made.


The adapters are for the 84-94 Vette racks.













[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-03-2006).]

Daviero MSG #63, 02-06-2006 11:21 PM
      Rick - what year of Camaro is your F body rack from? My yard guy her in Thunder Bay doesn't have one and would bring one in through his network, but it has to be the correct one. By his lisings, those cars had 2 steering system codes. Also, is there a different amount of assist for a 6 vrs 8 cyl car being that they are front engine cars? I would like the to achieve the 2.25 ratio (I'm too chicken for the the 2.0 Corvette ratio) and maintain the road feel you describe, but need some help identifying the correct doner car.
thanks- Dave.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #64, 02-07-2006 12:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Daviero:

Rick - what year of Camaro is your F body rack from? My yard guy her in Thunder Bay doesn't have one and would bring one in through his network, but it has to be the correct one. By his lisings, those cars had 2 steering system codes. Also, is there a different amount of assist for a 6 vrs 8 cyl car being that they are front engine cars? I would like the to achieve the 2.25 ratio (I'm too chicken for the the 2.0 Corvette ratio) and maintain the road feel you describe, but need some help identifying the correct doner car.
thanks- Dave.

Any F body rack from an LS1 V8 will work. Dont use the V6 rack



FieroRanger (philip@wahlbom.com) MSG #65, 02-19-2006 11:51 PM
      Rick, I'm rebuilding my front suspension now, and I am anxious to hear how this rack worked out for ya. Do you now prefer this rack over the FBody rack you did? Is the 2.0 rack twitchy at all? Any problem with the decreased turning radius? Am I correct in understanding that the FBody rack did not clear the spare tub, but this Corvette rack did? Finally, do you have a part number for this rack?

Beautiful work, and many thanks!



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #66, 02-20-2006 01:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroRanger:

Rick, I'm rebuilding my front suspension now, and I am anxious to hear how this rack worked out for ya. Do you now prefer this rack over the FBody rack you did? Is the 2.0 rack twitchy at all? Any problem with the decreased turning radius? Am I correct in understanding that the FBody rack did not clear the spare tub, but this Corvette rack did? Finally, do you have a part number for this rack?

Beautiful work, and many thanks!

I did not finish the rack yet. But I don't expect any problem with the fast ratio. The 88Fiero will not suffer from a slight decrease in turning radius. If you put larger wheels on the 88, they could rub if you turn to far, so that is no worry for me. The F body rack has less travel and the decrease in turning radius is a none issue. I can make a U turn on my street with out doing a three point turn.



Parde_GT MSG #67, 02-20-2006 03:06 PM
      Great write up!

What if changes would need to be made to apply this to an 87?

Is there a write up on the LS1 rack?

thanks.

[This message has been edited by Parde_GT (edited 02-20-2006).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #68, 02-20-2006 03:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Parde_GT:

Great write up!

What if changes would need to be made to apply this to an 87?

Is there a write up on the LS1 rack?

thanks.

I dont know what will need to change for a pre88?

this is the "F" body rack thread.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20050410-1-044587.html



FlyFieroGT MSG #69, 02-22-2006 11:13 PM
      Hydralic Power Steering Gear from C4 Corvette

service rack

1990 -95 ZR1 2.72 turns (13:1 Ratio) GM 88990983, Saginaw 26044761, Delco 26081516
1990-95 base 3.36 turns (15.6:1Ratio) GM 88991004, Saginaw 26044764, Delco 26081515

These should match the mods shown in this Post

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #70, 02-23-2006 11:16 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FlyFieroGT:

Hydralic Power Steering Gear from C4 Corvette

service rack

1990 -95 ZR1 2.72 turns (13:1 Ratio) GM 88990983, Saginaw 26044761, Delco 26081516
1990-95 base 3.36 turns (15.6:1Ratio) GM 88991004, Saginaw 26044764, Delco 26081515

These should match the mods shown in this Post

The only numbers I see on the rack are 36008290? It is kind of hard to read but that is what the cast in number looks like. And this rack is 2 turns lock to lock. The inner tie rods are the steering rack stops and only allow the steering wheel to turn 2 turns lock to lock total. The ratio of this rack is very fast.



hellbentkrusty (clynt@infinet.net) MSG #71, 02-23-2006 08:33 PM
      hi guys;
following these threads with great interest andputting together parts now
disassembeling a 01 camaro rack v8.
got the boots off .stops backed off and now do i just twist off the ends with a big wrench or is there
a dif procedure to get them off?

follow up question..is there any reason why i cant just shorten the camaro inners and just run threads up the 4inches
and use the camaro tie ends??
thanx; clynt


Zac88GT (snarfboot@hotmail.com) MSG #72, 02-23-2006 08:52 PM
      hellbentkrusty, you might be able to get away with that but if you do than the inner tie rod ball joint will be closer to the center of the car than original, throwing off the suspension geometry, this will affect your bumpsteer, (i think it might reduce it but i'm not sure), anyhow when i did mine i did not want to mess around to much with changing the geometry. hope that answers your question

FlyFieroGT MSG #73, 02-23-2006 09:24 PM
      Rickady88GT Sent PM

hellbentkrusty (clynt@infinet.net) MSG #74, 02-23-2006 09:50 PM
      hi guys
no pm recieved??
original question do the ends just twist off or is there locking pins??dont wont to start breaking/bending things!!
l8r clynt


mcaanda (mcaanda@gmail.com) MSG #75, 02-23-2006 09:55 PM
     
I want pics - & I want them now. Just becouse Im in Seattle I will not be denied!
You know what to which I refer!

NOW - or the bunny w/ the pancake on its head gets it:

Thanx!

BTW: In no way were any widgets harmed in the posting of this post, and I promise that I will release 7 remaining widGets shortly!

Cool Power Tseering too...

--Allen



JenzGT2 (jen-fizz@sbcglobal.net) MSG #76, 02-24-2006 12:34 AM
      Thanks for all the interest in this thread!

I'm Rickady's wife, after a very long day out and about he just isn't feeling well so he will have to get back with you as soon as he is feeling better.

Oh, and Mcaanda, I'll send you an email so you don't feel denied. lol


Jen


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #77, 02-24-2006 12:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by hellbentkrusty:

hi guys;
following these threads with great interest andputting together parts now
disassembeling a 01 camaro rack v8.
got the boots off .stops backed off and now do i just twist off the ends with a big wrench or is there
a dif procedure to get them off?

follow up question..is there any reason why i cant just shorten the camaro inners and just run threads up the 4inches
and use the camaro tie ends??
thanx; clynt

Don't confuse the "F" body rack with the Vette rack. The "F" body rack is longer than the Vette rack. The Vette rack is the one that needs the long adapters.

"F" body adapters

Vette adapters

You cant reuse the tie rod ends from the Camaro/Firebird because the rack is offset to the driver side. This would cause a very bad bump steer problem if you just cut new threads on the tie rod ends and reused them in the Fiero. One side would have a radically different bump steer curve than the other.
So to get the tie rods off, I put one inner tie rod in a big vise and used a huge wrench on the other tie rod and broke them loose. I did not want to stress the pinion gear by clamping the rack body and twisting off the inner tie rod ends.


THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #78, 03-03-2006 02:11 PM
      So what are the lock to lock ratios on both Camaro/Firebird and Corvette steering racks?

JG

fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #79, 03-19-2006 02:59 PM
      bump

Verry interesting stuff!!! Keep it up guys!

Iwan


PaulJK MSG #80, 03-19-2006 10:11 PM
      Rickady: PM to you .....

THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #81, 03-19-2006 11:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by THE BEAST:

So what are the lock to lock ratios on both Camaro/Firebird and Corvette steering racks?

JG

BUMP!

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #82, 03-20-2006 03:08 AM
      I don't remember the formula to calculate the actual ratio? But I will try to find it for you. But the F body rack will turn a maximum of 2.25 turns of the steering wheel from lock to lock. The Vette rack will turn a max of 2.0 turns lock to lock. The inner tie rods act as the bump stops, so they are not adjustable and the travel of the Vette racks should all be the same. Only the number and size of "teeth" on the rack gear and pinion are changed to make different ratios. This Vette rack gear moves MUCH further with each turn of the steering wheel than the stock Fiero rack.

fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #83, 04-03-2006 12:58 PM
      Is there a way to decrease the racks travel by adding pump stops in the rack? I have problems with tires hitting the control arms at full lock on my 88. I'm real keen on trying the Z1 powersteering rack but also would need the rack travel to be shorter so that the racks pumpstops are hit before the tires start to rub. Is there a way to accomplish that? Would it work the same in a stock rack?

Great thread!!

Iwan

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #84, 04-03-2006 01:36 PM
      Yes you can add a bump stop to the rack. Unclamp the boots from the rack and slide them away from the rack. With the wheels turned as far as they will go before they rub, you will be able to see how far the inner tie rod is from the rack body. Measure that gap and have a machine shop cut a piece of nylon plastic stock in the shape of a large washer that is thick enough to span the gap you measured. Then cut out about 1/3 of the washer and insert the "C" shaped washer in the gap. Make sure the two sides have exactly the same washer. Then put the boot back on. If the gap is not very muck and the washer is too flimsy to stay in place then you could replace the stock plastic bump stops that are on the inner tie rods. They look like a small cup they clips over the inner tie rod. GM made diferent thikness's of these bump stops. I think the Fiero has the thin white one's, so you can check the wrecking yards for the thick blue ones and put them in your rack. I would not do the "C" washer, I would do the stock replacement or take off the inner tie rods from the rack and insert the washer over the inner tie rod without cutting it. Then put the tie rods back on the rack.
This is a pic of the nylon washers

Yours will not be nearly as thick as this but you should get the idea.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 04-03-2006).]

THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #85, 04-03-2006 04:06 PM
      Thank you Rickady88GT

JG


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #86, 04-05-2006 12:08 PM
      This is the stock GM rack bump stops. The white one is out of the Fiero and the blue one is out of an Intrigue. I have no idea if you can get them from GM?

the Fiero ones are .139" and the blue ones are .298. That is a significant amount, so you could grind,sand or file the blue ones down to the thickness you need.

This is how they fit on the stock tie rods. They just cover the inner tie rod and snap into place.



fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #87, 04-07-2006 07:12 AM
      Thats great info! Thanks a lot!!

Iwan

northeastfiero (carlgill@hotmail.com) MSG #88, 04-07-2006 04:28 PM
      I know it has been asked before, but does anyone know what changes would have to be made to make it compatible with a pre 88.


fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #89, 04-12-2006 11:48 AM
      anything to update on this project? I'm really interested!!

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #90, 04-14-2006 01:05 PM
      The only hold up is the pump bracket. I will get on that today.

PaulJK MSG #91, 04-15-2006 09:23 AM
      After you have one made, you should make some copies before the final instal. I bet you could sell a few

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #92, 04-21-2006 02:55 PM
      I took the adapters to a CNC Machine shop today. I need to know if any body wants a copy? The more I have them make the cheaper they will be. They will be made out of molly and if I have just one copy of them made it could cost $200. If I have 50 made they could be about $50. It takes one adapter per side so that is a price range from $400-$100 for the two adapters. He has only given me a "rough" estimate. Obviously I would rather pay $50 bucks for the two but that depends on how many are made? I will order 10 sets for my self as I has 3 88's that will get a Vette rack soon. So if you know any one that wants a set please let them know that now is a good time to let me know. If I get little to no response I will not have them made, I will just have the ones I need made at a conventional shop. Each set may cost about $100 but that is cheaper than $200 if the CNC shop only makes mine.

This is the prototype set that I took in. The CNC versions will be improved.




He will give me a call on Monday for an official quote.

Thank you.

Rick

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 04-21-2006).]

LT-5Fiero (lilmac@sc.rr.com) MSG #93, 04-21-2006 03:03 PM
      Rickady, I didn't notice what year ZR-1 rack you are using.

Through my rushed research, I found two different part numbers seperating the early years from the later years C4 ZR-1 in the power steering rack. No actual data, just different part numbers. Any insight into this?


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #94, 04-21-2006 03:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by LT-5Fiero:

Rickady, I didn't notice what year ZR-1 rack you are using.

Through my rushed research, I found two different part numbers separating the early years from the later years C4 ZR-1 in the power steering rack. No actual data, just different part numbers. Any insight into this?


No, I don't know? I got the rack off of EBay around Xmas when nobody had money to spend. All I know is that it is a ZR1 rack and has exactly 2 turns lock to lock. The numbers search came up negative on my end too. But I will get a standard C4 Vette rack to do the rest of my conversions. The ultra fast ratio of the ZR1 may be a bit much for a daily driver. I will go to the GM dealer to see if they can tell what generation it is?



PaulJK MSG #95, 04-21-2006 10:58 PM
      Will your adapters fit the conventional corvette rack or just the ZR-1 ? How abou the f-body ?

I'd be interested in a complete set of all the custom pieces; rack adapters, mounts, pump bracket, etc. I'll be using this for my daily driver, so maybe the ZR-1 is too quick (and I need to keep my A/C) .

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 04-21-2006).]

DanOMite (swattenterprises@gmail.com) MSG #96, 04-22-2006 07:49 AM
      I would also be interested in a complete set.
If thats not possible just the adapters would be fine.


DRLGTP MSG #97, 04-22-2006 07:55 PM
      I am interested in a set as well.

fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #98, 04-24-2006 07:48 AM
      If you decide to make more addapter for the Z1 rack and maybe a bracket to be welded to the crossmember Id be more than interested.
I want to do this swap. The play on my original 88 rack is driving me nutty..



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #99, 04-24-2006 01:15 PM
      I will notify you of the cost when the shop calls me. They have not yet called.
As far as the mount goes, it is kind of complex for me to do in my garage, but I will give it a shot.
The lines I use cost about $200. They are hydraulic rated pipe that is bent to fit under the car and fallow the recesses so nothing hangs down. They look like the stock brake lines but without the "spring" around them. Shipping would be a bummer too. They are about 8 feet long and are a crazy shape.


PaulJK MSG #100, 04-25-2006 04:28 AM
      One of the "big" things I'd need is a bracket to mount the pump to the engine and still keep the A/C.

i guess the pieces to do the install are:

- f-body / corvette / ZR-1 rack
- adapters for the steering rack
- mount for the steering rack
- lines from the front to the back
- bracket to mount the pump to the engine
- fluid res. tank

Did i miss anything ?

Come to think of it, shipping the lines are not a problem for me - I can just drive to you and pick everything up

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 04-25-2006).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #101, 04-25-2006 01:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by PaulJK:

One of the "big" things I'd need is a bracket to mount the pump to the engine and still keep the A/C.

i guess the pieces to do the install are:

- f-body / corvette / ZR-1 rack
- adapters for the steering rack
- mount for the steering rack
- lines from the front to the back
- bracket to mount the pump to the engine
- fluid res. tank

Did i miss anything ?

Come to think of it, shipping the lines are not a problem for me - I can just drive to you and pick everything up



Lots of small stuff I had done a power steering swap in a week end. But before the car was brought over, I did up an X member, pump bracket and lines. Then I just swapped out the entire front suspension and put in a pump and lines.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #102, 04-25-2006 02:13 PM
      OK, the machine shop called back and said the parts will cost allot of money Just one part, one adapter NOT one pair will cost over $200. But if I buy 26 pieces or 13 pair it would cost me about $1500. If you would pay $120 + shipping for the adapters I could do it. But I wont do it with out support from selling them. I can get the parts made for about $100 at a conventional shop, but the CNC is defiantly worth the extra $20. And the conventional shop takes a LONG time to get the stuff done. If I order more parts, the cost drops below what a conventional shop will charge.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 04-25-2006).]

Spiff (jonpanop@verizon.net) MSG #103, 04-25-2006 04:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

OK, the machine shop called back and said the parts will cost allot of money Just one part, one adapter NOT one pair will cost over $200. But if I buy 26 pieces or 13 pair it would cost me about $1500. If you would pay $120 + shipping for the adapters I could do it. But I wont do it with out support from selling them. I can get the parts made for about $100 at a conventional shop, but the CNC is defiantly worth the extra $20. And the conventional shop takes a LONG time to get the stuff done. If I order more parts, the cost drops below what a conventional shop will charge.



I am putting a 3800Sc in an 88 and havent removed the PS pump yet. I also have an entire 88 Front crossmember sitting in the shed. So if I could get the brakets you may be making. All I would need then is a rack (which do you preferr), fluid resivour and the lines to the back right?

If thats the case. Give me a final price to 17404.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #104, 04-26-2006 11:00 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Spiff:


I am putting a 3800Sc in an 88 and havent removed the PS pump yet. I also have an entire 88 Front crossmember sitting in the shed. So if I could get the brakets you may be making. All I would need then is a rack (which do you preferr), fluid resivour and the lines to the back right?

If thats the case. Give me a final price to 17404.




Right now the only price I have is $120+shipping for the adapters. The steering rack mount will need to be resigned to a less complex shape. That way I can sell them at a reasonable price.

Will the engine fit with the pump and all the stock accessories in the stock location?



fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #105, 04-27-2006 07:12 AM
      I wonder if the powersteering pump off of an L67 wil transplant to the 2.8 fiero motor (for the time being, untill I install the L67). Anybody done this?

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #106, 04-27-2006 11:46 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fiero-iwan:

I wonder if the powersteering pump off of an L67 wil transplant to the 2.8 fiero motor (for the time being, untill I install the L67). Anybody done this?


That is the pump I was fitting to the 2.8. It has the wrong pulley (it has a wide serpentine belt and the 2.8 has a narrow sup and a V belt) and the reservoir is kind of large. So fitting it is is a problem. I need to go to the yard to find a better pump.



Spiff (jonpanop@verizon.net) MSG #107, 04-27-2006 04:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

Will the engine fit with the pump and all the stock accessories in the stock location?


I dont see why not. People put their Alternators in there when they do a lowmount alt setup. But when I do get that far is when I will find out if there are any clearance issues.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #108, 04-27-2006 11:21 PM
      So $120 is to much?

PaulJK MSG #109, 04-28-2006 12:20 AM
      Are the adapters for the ZR-1, converntional corvette or F-body ?

{bump}


DanOMite (swattenterprises@gmail.com) MSG #110, 04-28-2006 08:43 AM
      $120 + ship sounds good to me.
You have paypal?


TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #111, 04-28-2006 10:10 AM
      I love your ingenuity. I'll take a set, but I need to know what years corvette to buy the rack from for these adapters? Also, any more assistance on the mounts would be extremely helpful for those of us not quite as handy as yourself. Don't get me wrong, I think I can do it, but copying yours is ever so much easier. Thanks.

fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #112, 04-28-2006 11:52 AM
      $120 is still quite a lot o money, but I would pay it if you are not able to do it for less. We are lalking about the ZR-1 rack, right? Would you be willing to share the addapter dimensions and specs so we could have our own made, maybe locally?

Also I would still like to fit the l67 pump to the 2.8 somehow. I have no AC so I would want to put it over where the AC-compressor used to be. Another pulley would need to be fitted to the powersteering pump to make it compatible with the 2.8 belt type. This can be done I'm sure. But if the reservoir is too large could that be mounted elswhere in the hydrollic system? Up front by the crossmember or radiator or so? Or does it NEED to be by the pump?

Thanks
Iwan


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #113, 04-28-2006 12:05 PM
      Well, it looks like I don't have enough interest in the CNC parts. So I will see if the conventional shop can make some for me. If I can get them made I will offer them to those that want them. The ZR1 rack is the same as the regular rack. It just has a faster ratio. The adapter will work for the ZR1 or standard C4 Vette. I just have not got around to nailing down the years they will work on.

I may have convinced my wife that I need my own mill and lathe. If I get them I could make all the parts I need here at my own house. Even the mounts would be MUCH easier for me to produce.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 04-28-2006).]

TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #114, 04-28-2006 03:26 PM
      I don't want you to go out and buy a mill for us here on the forum. If it worked out that you had one and could make the mounts and adapters, that would be absolutely AWESOME. I have read your thread several times, and I am still leary of making the mounts as I don't have the equipment to bend and shape that thick of metal. If I could purchase the mounts and adapters, I would have no problem with the lines, pump, etc. Time consuming, YES, but no unsurmountable hurddles. Please let us know how this all shakes out.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #115, 04-29-2006 02:25 AM
      I've wanted my own mill and lathe for years, I've been making so many custom parts it doesn't make sence to keep paying the machine shop to do it for me. I'll keep you informed.



PaulJK MSG #116, 04-29-2006 05:33 AM
      Well, I bet you could make enough power steering parts and brake adapters (corvette to 84-87 and 88 fiero) to pay for the equipment and then some.

Daviero MSG #117, 04-29-2006 08:58 AM
      I need a set of the adaptors - I had planned on just making them myself but if it increases the quantity enough I'd buy them. I already have the 2 turns ratio Corvette rack. I just have not started the steering project yet as I am working on completeing my N* installation. One project at a time.
I got the rack from a yard too, not sure what year it came from.
Let me know on the adaptors Rick?
Dave.



scorpion501 (rrose501@hotmail.com) MSG #118, 04-30-2006 02:46 AM
      Rick - Count me in. I need a set of the adaptors for the vette steering. Ron


sspeedstreet (sspeedstreet@verizon.net) MSG #119, 04-30-2006 01:28 PM
      You know I'm in for a set, Rick.

Neil


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #120, 04-30-2006 05:09 PM
      OK, it seems I have 9 people interested in sets. That's pretty close to what I need to make an order from the cnc shop. The shop told me it would be 4 weeks to produce them, is that a problem for anyone? Also, I need to pay for these up front so I have to ask if you are willing to send a money order first then I can pay the shop. I will also see about making the mount if anyone is interesting in that too.

Let me know if you have any questions and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Sometimes I work a lot of overtime so it might take a couple days to get back on the computer. My wife will help out if she can.

Here is a list of those interested in a set:

sspeedstreet
Scorpion501
Daviero
PaulJK
TGoreif8891
fiero-iwan
DanOMite
Spiff
DRLGTP

Rick



gascarracer (ernestbauhofer@fuse.net) MSG #121, 04-30-2006 06:06 PM
      I have been following this thread very closely. This seems to be about the easiest swap yet.

I am interested but I am not sure what you are selling for $120. What do I get for my money? Are the mounting brackets included? If not how much?




Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #122, 05-01-2006 04:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by gascarracer:

I have been following this thread very closely. This seems to be about the easiest swap yet.

I am interested but I am not sure what you are selling for $120. What do I get for my money? Are the mounting brackets included? If not how much?



All you would get for $120 is the two rack-to inner tie rod adapters. I have not got the Mount to "production" yet. I am not a business, this is a hobby for me. So I am sorry if this is a little "lean" But I am working on helping others with their hobby too.



sspeedstreet (sspeedstreet@verizon.net) MSG #123, 05-01-2006 04:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

I have not got the Mount to "production" yet. I am not a business, this is a hobby for me.


So Rick, what about some prison labor?

BTW, do you want the $120 sent to you now?


unccfiero23 (mabost@uncc.edu) MSG #124, 05-01-2006 08:54 PM
      Are these adaptors still available? If so, I'm interested.

TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #125, 05-01-2006 11:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sspeedstreet:
BTW, do you want the $120 sent to you now?


Ditto


gascarracer (ernestbauhofer@fuse.net) MSG #126, 05-02-2006 02:35 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


All you would get for $120 is the two rack-to inner tie rod adapters. I have not got the Mount to "production" yet. I am not a business, this is a hobby for me. So I am sorry if this is a little "lean" But I am working on helping others with their hobby too.


I am sorry if my post rubbed you the wrong way. It was not ment to. I under stand you are not a business. I just didn't understand what you were selling.

I am interested in a set.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #127, 05-02-2006 03:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by gascarracer:


I am sorry if my post rubbed you the wrong way. It was not ment to. I under stand you are not a business. I just didn't understand what you were selling.

I am interested in a set.



No, you did not rub me the wrong way. I was not snapping at you. I just wanted to make sure that you understand were I am coming from. I am hoping to help others enjoy the hobby of Fieros. And that I will try to help as much as I can. I just dont have an entire "kit" to sell. But if I could do that I would.No bad feelings.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #128, 05-02-2006 03:58 PM
      I have had 8 hours of sleep in the last two days, so I have not responded to some replies yet. If you want a set Please PM me for info. Thank you.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #129, 05-03-2006 12:23 PM
      OK, the rack adapters I made are for an 84-94 ZR1 Vette. The rack I used is a 224HD and is listed for use with the 16 inch wheels and heavy duty Vette suspension.
So any Vette rack from 84-94 will work with the adapters. It does not matter if it is a ZR1 or not. The ZR1 is just a faster steering ratio. It is also called a "sport" rack.

Looks like shipping will be $10 anywere in U.S.


scorpion501 (rrose501@hotmail.com) MSG #130, 05-04-2006 01:20 AM
      Rick - What is your mailing address for the steering adapter payment? By the way, thanks for making these available to the rest of us. Ron

[This message has been edited by scorpion501 (edited 05-04-2006).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #131, 05-04-2006 01:33 AM
      I thought I sent you a pm with my address, sorry if I missed you. I'll get one out to you here in a minute.

Anyone else who wants in, please pm me and I'll send you the info. Thanks to those that replied already.

Rick


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #132, 05-04-2006 04:06 PM
      Scorpion501 did you get my pm?

Anyone else need the address?


Rick


scorpion501 (rrose501@hotmail.com) MSG #133, 05-05-2006 02:00 AM
      Yup! MO going out in the morning. Ron

PaulJK MSG #134, 05-05-2006 02:53 AM
      I need your address

fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #135, 05-05-2006 11:52 AM
      Sent you a PM Rick.
It includes an idea of mine for reducing the risk of us being able to wrongly position a steering rack mount bracket. call me crazy...

Thanks
Iwan


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #136, 05-05-2006 01:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fiero-iwan:

Sent you a PM Rick.
It includes an idea of mine for reducing the risk of us being able to wrongly position a steering rack mount bracket. call me crazy...

Thanks
Iwan


This is a good point. It is absolutely critical to have the mount welded in the proper position. That is a part of the R&D that I need to do for a "commercial" mount. I will give dimensions to those needing them, but I have a plan to produce a paper or card board template to locate the mount. The mount itself will be a fool proof mount, that is, the mount will only go on the X member one way. The only real measurement needed to locate the mount rack is for the side to side location. The spool angle and other critical measurements will be in the mount design itself.



fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #137, 05-09-2006 05:31 AM
      Just a bump to keep it up top so more people can see this thread and join in (and hopefully lower the price a little)

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #138, 05-09-2006 12:41 PM
      So far the "commercial" mounts look good. They will not even need a template to align. I designed them to use "landmarks" on the X member. Theoretically you can just set it on the X member next to the designated landmark and tack weld it on. Take a few measurements with the rack in place, then remove the rack and weld on the mount No price on them yet. And with the Vette rack only one mount is needed. The right side stock Fiero steering rack mount is used.

Flyguyeddy (be329@lab.icc.edu) MSG #139, 05-09-2006 04:04 PM
      how many of these kits do you plan on making? and for how long?

in all reality, what im asking here is what kind of availability aere we gonna have if we want one oh say a year down the road?


Formula88 MSG #140, 05-09-2006 04:22 PM
      I'm definitely interested in a kit. I plan on doing a V8 swap and want power steering. I have no idea how I'll mount the power steering pump, but one insurmountable hurdle at a time, please.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #141, 05-09-2006 04:59 PM
      I'm getting 13 sets made, it is still possible to get a few more made but even if I order more the cost won't go down that much unless I order a big batch of them. I'm not sure how long it will take me to get more as I would need another big order for a shop or I need to get my own lathe to make these on my own. So, yeah I will probably make more, just not sure how long it will take for the next batch.

Rick


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #142, 05-10-2006 12:18 AM
      I have the first mount just about ready. I need to take out an X menber and try it out.








I need to drill the holes and weld up the seams.

It is as easy as cutting off the original driver side rack mount and setting this one in its place and weld. All of the math and such was already done for you
BUT I will not make allot of them. They just are not going to be profitable for me. I don't have the equipment to mass produce them and make money. If you ordered a set of adapters and want a mount I will make you one. Price= allot


fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #143, 05-10-2006 05:08 AM
      The mount looks very promissing Rick!! Please put me down for one.

Now I need to find a ZR1 rack somewhere.... I think I will not be able to beat your $50 for your rack. Cheapest yet is $350

Iwan


Formula88 MSG #144, 05-10-2006 08:58 AM
      Well, if you have any available from your current run, let me know. Otherwise, let me know when you make your next run. I am very interested, but only if I can get the mount and the adapters.



TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #145, 05-10-2006 09:13 AM
      I would like a mount! Let me know how much it'll be. I hope you received my check for the adapters, if not "it's in the mail". No really, it is!

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #146, 05-10-2006 11:36 AM
      Formula88, pm sent to ya.



sspeedstreet (sspeedstreet@verizon.net) MSG #147, 05-10-2006 04:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
Price= allot


PM me a price, please, Rick.


fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #148, 05-12-2006 09:20 AM
      Hi Rick

If you need some money upfront for the ZR1 adapters and bracket let me know your paypal address and the amount please.

thanks
Iwan


Formula88 MSG #149, 05-12-2006 01:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fiero-iwan:

Hi Rick

If you need some money upfront for the ZR1 adapters and bracket let me know your paypal address and the amount please.

thanks
Iwan


Same here. Once you get a price for the mount, let me know. I got your PM about the adapters.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #150, 05-12-2006 02:15 PM
      Until I find a way to make the mounts quicker and more efficient they are going to be $75 shipped and I can put them in the same box as the adapters. If you do decide to buy the mount it will vastly simplify the conversion because it will align the rack in the proper position for you. The mount requires no template, jig, or alignment aids it simply clips onto the x member and weld.

I'm sending out some more pm's, I am sending pm's to let you know when I get your payment. So, if you sent one and I didn't pm you I haven't got it yet.

I'm going to be gone for the next couple days, so as soon as I can I will get back on this.

Thanks

Rick


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #151, 05-12-2006 02:35 PM
      Ok, sent out some more pm's

If I've left anyone out please let me know. It's not easy keeping track of all these pm's!



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #152, 05-19-2006 09:11 PM
      OK just a quick update on the parts.
I have been putting people on a list in order of payment, not order placement. So I am now at a cross road. I either need to order more parts for all of the people that have expressed interest, or just hold off on ordering more adapters till I actually get the money? Please don't take this the wrong way, I just want people to know that I only ordered 13 sets of the adapters but have received more orders than adapters, but fewer payments than adapters. So when the adapters come in ( hopefully in a week or so ) I will only send them to the people that pay, in the order the payment comes in. As of right now I do not have enough adapters ordered to fill all the requests that I have received So I may need to place another order for the shop to make more? Or I will send back the money to the people that did not get here in time? I am not reserving the parts for people unless I have there money. If I have your money I have adapters for you, as of right now. But, if I get to a point were more people send money than adapters, I may need to send back your money.
Sorry for the inconvenience, but I just cant pay out of pocket for a bunch of adapters and hold on to them till they get sold. I know it is an inconvenience to wait for 4 weeks to get your parts, but that is what will have to happen if more than 13 people send money after the shop makes the first batch. I may still have time to up the production number if I get the commitments ?

I also took more pics of the entire installation so people can do a step by step instal of the parts I send out. For the ones that want to do the entire swap from scratch themselves, you will also benefit from the pics. With my adapters and mount there are MINIMAL measurements required for the swap. But for the do it yourselfer you will need to take some careful measurements to get the rack in the correct position.

Thank you.


TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #153, 05-20-2006 12:42 AM
      Awesome Rick, please post the pictures for us. My check for the mount will be mailed tomorrow (or later today, I guess).

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #154, 05-20-2006 04:27 PM
      I have a few pics of the mount that I will send out.

It is as easy as removing the old driver side mount from the 88 front X member and putting this one on.


You can install the rack and mount the right hand side stock mount and install the driver side mount bolt. This will help line up the mount for tack weld.




The very close fitting mount will really help place the rack in the correct position. Notice the small hole cut out in the Xmember just inside the mount. That hole is for clearance for the steering rack rubber mount. If this hole is not cut out , the left side of the rack will stick up to high. The hole allows the rack to settle into the correct position.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-20-2006).]

F355spider (nixon@itexas.net) MSG #155, 05-20-2006 05:27 PM
      Very good fit and finnish looks like it was made to go there I like your work keep it up.

Spiff (jonpanop@verizon.net) MSG #156, 05-23-2006 12:30 AM
      Very Nice. My MO is going in the mail tomorrow.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #157, 05-23-2006 01:54 AM
      thanks for the comments.

I will post some pics for the do it your selfers. I don't have my prototype adapters here so I cant post the dimensions.

The mount will be at a 65* angle to the top surface of the Xmember. This is CRITICAL because the steering input shaft has a very narrow "window" that it can aim for. The window that the steering shaft needs to aim for is the fire wall hole that the steering shaft comes out thru.


If your mount is at the correct angle the very end of the steering input shaft will be 2.2 from the Xmember mount surface to the exact center of the steering input shaft.




You can see that the entire rack will have plenty of space for clearance. No less than .5 clearance.


Now this is kind of hard to explain.
If you look straight down at the A arm mount, the exact center of the rack gear will line up with the rear edge of the front mount. I took this pic just off center so you can see what I am talking about. If you look perfectly straight down at the flat edge of the mount, the red arrow and yellow center line of the rack will line up. IF the rack is mounted correctly


Other side.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-23-2006).]

gascarracer (ernestbauhofer@fuse.net) MSG #158, 05-23-2006 01:57 AM
     
Rickady88GT, Could you please PM me your name and address so I can Pay for the rack mounting brackets. $75.00 for both right?

Thanks



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #159, 05-23-2006 02:06 AM
      Yes the mount is $75 shipped, but you only need One. The stock right hand side Fiero mount is used. The left hand side Fiero mount is cut off, then weld on the custom mount.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #160, 05-23-2006 02:22 AM
      I also decided to have some dust boot extensions made for the right hand side dust boot. The longer extension will stretch the boots to the limit. So I designed an extension to help relieve any undo stress caused by the longer extension. If you ordered a set of adapters from me you will get the extension with the adapters free of charge. It looks like the Cady STS rack has longer dust boots, so if you want to replace the dust boots during the swap you may want to look into replacing the Fiero boots with the newer Cady boots. They also have the vent cross over pipe that will help boot life too. You just need to make your own custom pipe to connect the two boots.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #161, 05-23-2006 02:23 AM
     



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #162, 05-23-2006 07:48 PM
      OK, I got my hands on a standard Vette rackwith a date stamp of 86 on it. Yes there are differences, but nothing that would cause a problem. The two are for the most part the same. The two racks are nearly identical till you get real close and measure them. The rack gear length it self is very close and the threads are the same as the ZR1. The differences between the two racks are the dimensions between the inner tie rods. The rack is made up of different parts. The main body is the aluminum part, the hydraulic cylinder is the steel part and the steering spool. The steering spool is the part with the steering shaft and 4 hydraulic lines going to it. On the ZR1 rack the steering spool is a press in cast iron part. The standard rack has the steering spool cast into the main body of the rack and can not be removed. The cylinder on the two are identical but the bodies are very different in length. To make up for the different length of the standard rack GM used thicker bump stops on the standard rack than the ones used on the ZR1. So to sum it all up you could use your stock Fiero bump stops in your standard Vette rack and get an extra .2 of travel. That would bring the standard Vette rack up to 4.6 from 4.4. the stock Fiero rack travel is some thing like 5.

The ratio of the standard Vette rack is between the F body rack and standard 88 Fiero rack. The ZR! is by far the fastest ratio, then the F body, then the standard C4 Vette rack, then the Fiero brings the slowest ratio to the Fiero.

I may try to post some of the pics and dimensions/specs latter?


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #163, 06-07-2006 02:55 PM
      Got a call from the Machine shop "Got the wrong material. Need to reorder a new bar of molly. Will have your parts by the middle of next week"
Sorry about the delay. That turns a 3 to 4 week estimate to a 5.5 week wait.

If you have any questions or comments just PM, Email or call the number I sent you on the PM I sent out. Sorry again.


1fastcaddy (ku_ace@yahoo.com) MSG #164, 06-07-2006 03:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mcaanda:
He who is apparently 135 pounds, and likes the 3+ lock to lock ratio of the stock Fiero dosent.

I take it that you have got to have stock rims / tires on your Fiero. Take a set of very large aftermarket rims, ie: 17x8's w/ a 35mm offset on an 88’s for example, and see if you still think that the stock "feel" serves it's purpose.
I'd bet a Super Sized Double Bacon Cheeseburger from Carl’s Jr. that you'd defer to not...




Hey, I will take you up on that. I have 19x8.5s on the front with sticky nittos and I dont complain, I dont even care. I am only 5'9" and weigh 165 so Im not some huge guy. Whats all the fuss about? Anyways, bump


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #165, 06-07-2006 10:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 1fastcaddy:
Hey, I will take you up on that. I have 19x8.5s on the front with sticky nittos and I dont complain, I dont even care. I am only 5'9" and weigh 165 so Im not some huge guy. Whats all the fuss about? Anyways, bump


Have you ever driven a Fiero with a fast ratio power steering system? This debate has been done many times. The bottom line is that it IS NOT just about easy steering wheel effort. The fuss is about people modifying their own car to be better for the owners own taste or needs. Some people want less effort, and some just want the car to turn like a modern sports car with faster ratio steering. If you like your car the way it is, that is cool. But if you have never even driven a Fiero with fast ratio power steering, then you should look into getting it or test drive a Nissan 350Z. Then you will know what the fuss is about. A rack alone dose not make a Fiero into a 350Z, but the steering is some what alike. When modern sports cars go back to slow manual steering then I will too............Uh no I take that back. I will never go back to stock manual steering.



Formula88 MSG #166, 06-08-2006 09:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

Got a call from the Machine shop "Got the wrong material. Need to reorder a new bar of molly. Will have your parts by the middle of next week"
Sorry about the delay. That turns a 3 to 4 week estimate to a 5.5 week wait.

If you have any questions or comments just PM, Email or call the number I sent you on the PM I sent out. Sorry again.


Thanks for the update.


northeastfiero (carlgill@hotmail.com) MSG #167, 06-08-2006 12:10 PM
      Hi is this rack suitable for the job
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RACK-PINION-STEERING-CHEVROLET-CORVETTE-ZR1_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33729QQitemZ8066343149QQrdZ1
Thanks

[This message has been edited by northeastfiero (edited 06-08-2006).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #168, 06-08-2006 12:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by northeastfiero:

Hi is this rack suitable for the job
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RACK-PINION-S TEERING-CHEVROLET-CORVETTE-ZR1_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33729QQitemZ8066343149QQrdZ1
Thanks



Looks like it to me, yes.



Spiff (jonpanop@verizon.net) MSG #169, 06-14-2006 01:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

OK, the rack adapters I made are for an 84-94 ZR1 Vette. The rack I used is a 224HD and is listed for use with the 16 inch wheels and heavy duty Vette suspension.
So any Vette rack from 84-94 will work with the adapters. It does not matter if it is a ZR1 or not. The ZR1 is just a faster steering ratio. It is also called a "sport" rack.


Are all the C4 racks the same size, i.e. length? I ask becasue I called a local guy that strips Vettes and has many used racks available. He said that the racks had many different lengths broken down like this IIRC.
84-87
88
89-94
95-96

He had a ZR1 rack but wanted $300 for it.

Can you verify any of this info or is this guy full of crap.

Just trying to get all my parts ready before the adapters and mount arrive. I dont want to get the wrong rack.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #170, 06-14-2006 07:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Spiff:


Are all the C4 racks the same size, i.e. length? I ask becasue I called a local guy that strips Vettes and has many used racks available. He said that the racks had many different lengths broken down like this IIRC.
84-87
88
89-94
95-96

He had a ZR1 rack but wanted $300 for it.

Can you verify any of this info or is this guy full of crap.

Just trying to get all my parts ready before the adapters and mount arrive. I dont want to get the wrong rack.



I will not say he is off base? I am getting conflicting specs every were I turn?
I will say that the 84-87 ZR1 racks and standard racks are compatible with my adapters. I have both racks and took pics and measurements of them side by side. I do not have the other years, so I cant say why they are different part numbers. But it could have some thing to do with the different size hydraulic cylinder and rack body casting and other minor changes that do not alter the physical size of the rack, but make them incompatible for exchanging internal parts.
One way to tell the compatibility of racks is the tie rods. If the tie rods work, the racks are all compatible. No way around that. So I searched for Corvette rack tie rods and found that there are three different part numbers for tie rods.
http://www.ecklers.com/find.asp?
And the rack rebuilding company I got my first rack from said it was compatible for 84-91. So I don't know who to believe?
The racks I have here are all between 84 and 87. So If you want to be "on the safe side" get a rack that in that time frame. I would not hesitate to get a 96 rack, but I can make the adapters for them. I don't think my current adapters will work on the newer C4 racks? I will need to measure the racks to find out what is changed?


gascarracer (ernestbauhofer@fuse.net) MSG #171, 06-14-2006 09:44 PM
      I am not being argumentative. I am just adding information to help out.

The ZR1 Corvette was made from 1988 to 1995. There were only 6,939 ZR1's made in the 6 year span. That would be a hard to find item.

Corvettes have a performance package (Z51) that I think included a faster steering rack. Could this be the power steering rack you are talking about?



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #172, 06-15-2006 12:15 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by gascarracer:

I am not being argumentative. I am just adding information to help out.

The ZR1 Corvette was made from 1988 to 1995. There were only 6,939 ZR1's made in the 6 year span. That would be a hard to find item.

Corvettes have a performance package (Z51) that I think included a faster steering rack. Could this be the power steering rack you are talking about?



OK, cool. But that only makes things more confusing I have one ZR1 rack with no date stamp, this was my first rack. I got it off of Ebay from a rack rebuilder. The next two racks I have here are not mine. They belong to another PFF member. But they have date stamps on them and are between the dates of 84-87. So Is there any real diferance between the racks? All three racks are compatable with my adapters, and if the 84-87 standard rack is basicaly the same as my 88-95 ZR1 rack that is a good thing. I wish I could get my hands on them.



TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #173, 06-15-2006 07:07 AM
      I have a 1993 regular rack from ebay. If you tell me exactly what to measure, I can measure it this weekend and let everyone know if it works. PM or email me what to measure.

Tom


fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #174, 06-15-2006 10:35 AM
      Beware of buying racks on ebay from seller with the ebay-store called PARTS WHSE. I bought one that turned out to be junk!! Infact Rick has it now, as I had it shipped to him directly from ebay. He was going to ship it to me in Europe to save me on the expensive shipping offered by the seller. (Rick mentioned he has 2 racks belonging to a PFF member. That happens to be me).

PARTS WHSE has been totally unresponsive to my emails asking them for a replacement as what was received is clearly no good. Dents in the hydrolic cylinder, rust that was just painted over, and some goo that is oosing from one of the hydrolic lines.


TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #175, 06-15-2006 11:01 AM
      I bought mine from someone else on ebay and it is in good shape save for the 90 degree bend in one tie-rod. Gee, I wonder how that got threre?

fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #176, 06-15-2006 11:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by northeastfiero:

Hi is this rack suitable for the job
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RACK-PINION-S TEERING-CHEVROLET-CORVETTE-ZR1_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33729QQitemZ8066343149QQrdZ1
Thanks



In my opinion you would be taking a big risk Northeastfiero,. Your ebay link , links to the same ebaystore as where I got my junk rack from!!


northeastfiero (carlgill@hotmail.com) MSG #177, 06-15-2006 12:58 PM
      Thanks for the heads up on that, especially when I have to customs charges on everything I import.
Carl


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #178, 06-15-2006 01:04 PM
      I stopped by the shop yesterday and they said the adapters will be in today.

I will re-size and post more pics tonight.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #179, 06-15-2006 03:07 PM
      pics of bad rack








Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #180, 06-16-2006 01:05 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TG oreiF 8891:

I have a 1993 regular rack from ebay. If you tell me exactly what to measure, I can measure it this weekend and let everyone know if it works. PM or email me what to measure.

Tom


Keep in mind that even with all the differences between the two racks, they both are compatible with my adapters and the travel and over all dimensions are the same. The rack also many more differences between each other but it all works out in the end. Maybe why so many part numbers from other sources?

On the driver side of the rack measure the machined part that the boot clamps to. See in the pic the part that did not get painted. Measure from the very end of the rack (not the top edge of the taper, measure the end of the rack) to the end of the boot clap surface, or in other words from the very end of the rack to the where the paint starts.


as you can see, the snap ring groove is in a different location on the boot clamp surface than the first pic. Measure were the snap ring groove is on the clamp surface. It may seem insignificant, but that extra bit of material is like a thick bump stop. the thick area after the snap ring groove is used with the thin plastic bump stops. The thinner material is used with thick plastic bump stops. That way they all have the same travel.


This is the different thickness of plastic bump stops used on the GM racks I have seen. The White one is the same as the stock Fiero and ZR1 rack. The Black one is used on the standard Vette rack. And the Blue one is the thickest and was taken out of an Intrigue. You can see that they get taller from white to blue. That is how much thicker the bump stop is inside the plastic "cup" They all have the same exact fit on the stock Fiero tie rods but different bump thickness.




Measure the end cap on the pass side, from the very edge to the end of the hydraulic cylinder. The ZR1 and standard racks are different lengths.





And last but not least, measure the total length of the rack gear with the tie rods off. And measure the rack body from very end to end (the outer edge of the boot clap on the driver side to the edge of the end cap on the pass side).
And if you can measure the thread pitch and size.

If you can post pics of the racks or send them to me by email that would help too.

If you have any questions you can call me. My number is on the PM I sent out.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #181, 06-19-2006 03:10 PM
      OK I got the adapters in today.










Now I need to work on the other machine shop to get the boot extensions. What is it about machine shops not getting parts on time?


sspeedstreet (sspeedstreet@verizon.net) MSG #182, 06-19-2006 03:19 PM
      Ooooo . . . shiney!

TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #183, 06-19-2006 05:42 PM
      Those look great. I appologize, I didn't get a chance to measure my steering rack this past weekend, I was busy picking up a parts car to keep my GT on the road. I will try to get it measured as you showed this coming weekend.

Formula88 MSG #184, 06-25-2006 02:06 PM
      Beautiful! I guess I need to start looking for a ZR1 steering rack, huh?

Still don't know how I'm gonna work the power steering pump, but one hurdle at a time.
(currently a 2.8, but I want to be able to use it on a future V8 swap, too)


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #185, 06-28-2006 12:26 PM
      OK,I was told again today that they will be ready tomorrow I don't know if the boot extensions will ever be ready. They are not a necessity anyway you can use longer boots from a 2000+Caddy, so If any one wants the adapters and mount without the boot extensions let me know and I will send out the adapters as soon as I can. I have a few ready to go out today if I get a short list of people that do not want the boot extensions. If you can hold off till "tomorrow" then I will just go down my list as planed.

Sorry again for the delay. This is exactly why I need my own mill and lathe


Formula88 MSG #186, 07-01-2006 12:56 AM
      I'm willing to wait for the whole package.
I don't even have a rack yet, so I'm in no hurry.


sspeedstreet (sspeedstreet@verizon.net) MSG #187, 07-01-2006 02:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

I'm willing to wait for the whole package.
I don't even have a rack yet, so I'm in no hurry.


What he said.



Spiff (jonpanop@verizon.net) MSG #188, 07-01-2006 09:52 PM
      I will wait for the boot extensions


 
quote
Originally posted by TG oreiF 8891:

Those look great. I appologize, I didn't get a chance to measure my steering rack this past weekend, I was busy picking up a parts car to keep my GT on the road. I will try to get it measured as you showed this coming weekend.


TG oreiF 8891, Did you ever get the rack measured?



fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #189, 07-02-2006 05:56 AM
      Thats looking good Rick! I will wait for the boot extensions too. I'm still getting zero response from the ebay company that sent the bad rack. What can I do if they just do not respond? Anyway thanks Rick for all your troubles thus far!!

Iwan


mcaanda (mcaanda@gmail.com) MSG #190, 07-02-2006 01:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fiero-iwan:
I'm still getting zero response from the ebay company that sent the bad rack. What can I do if they just do not respond?


Contest the charges on your credit card, & also go through Paypal. Be warned that you have a short period of time to do this. I have seen that rack before I moved from CA, and I will tell you that it's as jacked as Rick says / the pictures show. Im VERY suprised that they would EVER send out that rack thinking that it would "pass" for a rebuilt.

Good Luck w/ it.

Shiney stuff looks good Rick! Did you get Jim to fab those up?

--Allen


Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #191, 07-03-2006 12:21 AM
      Wow! Lost track of this.
Rick, Do you have any more of these brackets/adapters available?


TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #192, 07-03-2006 07:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Spiff:

TG oreiF 8891, Did you ever get the rack measured?


I am working on it...sorry for the delay.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #193, 07-04-2006 03:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Wow! Lost track of this.
Rick, Do you have any more of these brackets/adapters available?


I have a few sets that are not paid for, but were asked for. If everybody that asked for a set paid for a set I would have sold all of them the first week or two, but I have not got the payment for all of them. And that is OK by me because the people that did pay do have a set ready for them and my out of pocket expense is covered. So it is all good. I will say that I am not reserving any sets for latter payment. I will send out parts to those that make a payment and they will go on a shipping list in order of payment. I do need to make more mounts and I have not got the boot extensions yet. I really hate to set a date because I don't want to brake it. But I do have several sets ready for shipment IF you don't want the boot extensions.



TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #194, 07-04-2006 06:48 PM
      I hope these are reasonably clear. I don't have PIP on this machine, nor am I very good with it. So I cannot post pics for a few days. I did send the pictures to Rickady88GT (I used the email listed in his profile, hope it is valid?).

I have some measurements from a 1993 C4 steering rack:
1. Very edge of the driverside rack to the end of the boot clamp surface: 27/32" (0.85)
2. Same side, end of boot clamp surface to closest edge of boot clamp ring: 15/32" (0.47)
3. Passenger side, measuring the machined lip from the hydraulic tube to its end: 27/32" (0.85)
4. Rack length hydraulic tube end to end: 20 3/8" (20.375)
5. Overall length outer edge of bump stop to outer edge of bump stop: 27 1/8" (27.125)

I didn't quite understand what the "total length of the rack gear with the tie rods off" was, nor did I have the tie rods off. I hope the last two measurements will suffice. Sorry for the delay.

edit: regular rack (not a ZR1)
edit#2: I'm getting an error with PIP so I cannot post pictures; I will be happy to email if anyone wishes to see the 1993 regular rack measurements - its much more clear than the word descriptions above.


Spiff (jonpanop@verizon.net) MSG #195, 07-05-2006 04:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TG oreiF 8891:

I hope these are reasonably clear. I don't have PIP on this machine, nor am I very good with it. So I cannot post pics for a few days. I did send the pictures to Rickady88GT (I used the email listed in his profile, hope it is valid?).

I have some measurements from a 1993 C4 steering rack:
1. Very edge of the driverside rack to the end of the boot clamp surface: 27/32" (0.85)
2. Same side, end of boot clamp surface to closest edge of boot clamp ring: 15/32" (0.47)
3. Passenger side, measuring the machined lip from the hydraulic tube to its end: 27/32" (0.85)
4. Rack length hydraulic tube end to end: 20 3/8" (20.375)
5. Overall length outer edge of bump stop to outer edge of bump stop: 27 1/8" (27.125)

I didn't quite understand what the "total length of the rack gear with the tie rods off" was, nor did I have the tie rods off. I hope the last two measurements will suffice. Sorry for the delay.

edit: regular rack (not a ZR1)


Thanks for the measurments TG oreiF 8891.

Rickady88GT, Can you use these measurements to see if this 93 rack would fit with you adapters?


TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #196, 07-12-2006 10:58 PM
      Ouch!
Someone just BUMPed into me!

edit: Found something useful to add to my bump:
Would one of these work?
www.eb ay.com/electric_PS_pump

[This message has been edited by TG oreiF 8891 (edited 07-12-2006).]

TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #197, 07-22-2006 02:02 PM
      Hmmm, what happened to Rickady?

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #198, 07-22-2006 04:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TG oreiF 8891:

Hmmm, what happened to Rickady?



I am back from a 6 day camping trip to the mountains. We took the Jeep on some off road trails. I did not notice the new replies to this thread.

As far as the measurements go, I will try to be more clear on exactly what needs to be measured. I will try to post pics of the needed measurements.

I would not recommend an electric pump for the rack unless you know enough about hydraulics to do the math. That means basically you need to figure out flow volume and pressure and other specs of both pumps to start with to see if the pump will even drive the rack. Then a system of relays and other electronics will need to be used to run the electric pump properly.




Formula88 MSG #199, 07-22-2006 06:03 PM
      I know on the factory electric units they reduce the pump speed as you accelerate. There has to be control over this, as well as making sure you have full power steering in a parking lot situation, while not needing to run it wide open all the time the engine is idling.

Which makes me wonder, what is done on factory engine driven pumps? Do they have anything to throttle the pump, or is it solely driven off of the engine speed? If so, the most you'd ever need is whatever the engine delivers at idle, right?


TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #200, 07-23-2006 05:14 PM
      I think so, your logic appears sound to me. That's what I was thinking. I am not the electronics guru, but with all the knowledge on this forum, it seems to me that someone could make a controller work off the vss signal. It could control the current to the pump so it gave none (or very little) at speed and full power under say 5 mph. I think its possible, but I am more mechanical than electronic, so I am probably not the one to test it out.

Edit: Question: Would the pump wear out to quickly if it ran all the time the car was at less than 5 mph? Does it then need a mechanism to turn on when you start turning?

[This message has been edited by TG oreiF 8891 (edited 07-23-2006).]

Formula88 MSG #201, 07-25-2006 01:59 PM
      Any idea when you'll have the boot extensions? I'm willing to wait for the complete kit, but just wanted an idea of the time frame.

JenzGT2 (jen-fizz@sbcglobal.net) MSG #202, 07-25-2006 04:18 PM
      Hi, Rick's wife here. Ricks been working 16 hour shifts so, he hasn't had much time to work on this. Hopefully, he will have the next couple days off to work on this project. He told me today that he is gonna have to take the boot extension plans to another machine shop as the guy that is suppose to do it just can't seem to get the time to get it done.

I hope that in the next couple days we will have a more concrete time frame and a shop ready to work on this.

Thanks,

Jen
Mrs. Rickady


Formula88 MSG #203, 07-25-2006 04:23 PM
      Thanks for the update. Again, I'm in no rush. I know how life has to come first.
Just wondering if he had a time frame. Tell him I said thanks for all the work he's done on this. I look forward to the setup when they're ready.



TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #204, 07-26-2006 12:01 AM
      No hurry here either, good luck prying Rickady away from his hobbies, ha!

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #205, 08-06-2006 01:26 PM
      OK, the shop has some of the boot extensions that are just about ready. A farmer dragged in some broken harvester that needed emergency repair. So I will grab the parts he has and try to ship 5 or 6 sets tomorrow? He makes VERRY little money on stuff that I bring him, but the farmers are his bred and butter so they are first in line every time. Even if his is actually working on my stuff.

THANK YOU very much for being so patient.



Spiff (jonpanop@verizon.net) MSG #206, 08-07-2006 01:22 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

OK, the shop has some of the boot extensions that are just about ready. A farmer dragged in some broken harvester that needed emergency repair. So I will grab the parts he has and try to ship 5 or 6 sets tomorrow? He makes VERRY little money on stuff that I bring him, but the farmers are his bred and butter so they are first in line every time. Even if his is actually working on my stuff.

THANK YOU very much for being so patient.



Sweet. Now I have to go get a rack.

It's and 84-96 rack correct? I may just have to reread the whole thread.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #207, 08-07-2006 01:43 PM
      I don't have a 96 rack, but I know there was some type of changes between 84 and 96. So, your best bet is to get an earlier rack 84-91. I would like to get my hands on a 96 rack just to see if there are any changes.

I could not get the parts out of the shop early enough and box and ship before I have to leave to San Diego for 3 days. He is still working on the farmers equipment.


If you don't want the boot extensions holding you back, I can still send the adapters without the boot extension anytime. Or if anyone is concerned that I am trying to scam them, send me a pm and I'll send your money back. I know this is taking a long time and could seen suspicious, though that is not what I am doing in any way. I should have just taken the blue prints to another shop a month ago, but he does so much free work for me it is hard to say give me my stuff back I am going somewhere else. Sorry, for yet another delay.

Rick


Formula88 MSG #208, 08-13-2006 09:35 PM
      I'm not worried. I know you're good for it.
Thanks for all the work you've put into this for us. It's greatly appreciated.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #209, 08-14-2006 04:55 PM
      Formula88

Sent you a pm



TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #210, 09-11-2006 08:41 PM
      Bump, been awhile about a month I guess. Any news?

gascarracer (ernestbauhofer@fuse.net) MSG #211, 09-12-2006 03:45 AM
     
I have received mine and they look good.



JenzGT2 (jen-fizz@sbcglobal.net) MSG #212, 09-15-2006 08:22 PM
      Hi all,

Sent out another set today and I will be dropping off the rest tomorrow at the post office. Rick still can't get any more boot extensions, so we are sending out the adapters and brackets now. Not all the Corvette racks need the extension, so if you end up getting one that needs it you can let Rick know and he will get one out to you. Still trying to get a few made. This has gone on long enough and everyone has been patient. Thanks so much.

Jen

Mrs. Rickady



ricreatr MSG #213, 10-12-2006 10:27 AM
      Awsome thread! with great info. i have read through the whole thing, and missed what i was looking for - a test drive evaluation.?
you have been on the road with it? (obviously if you are making sets . . .)
how does it drive? what is the feel like?
cool stuff


TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #214, 10-13-2006 01:34 PM
      Thank you Rickady88GT. The adapters and mount look very well made. Now all I need is to figure out where I can duct tape a power steering pump on the 2.8...any ideas?

rjblaze (rjblaze@verizon.net) MSG #215, 10-13-2006 02:57 PM
      I just saw an add in KitCar magazine for an electric power steering "pump" that attaches between the end of the steering column and either a manual box or a manual rack. It looks like a great idea for our fiero's.....it supposedly is adjustable also.

Toaster_Man (jon.saale@gmail.com) MSG #216, 10-13-2006 07:29 PM
      Powersteering is nice, and an electric pump might be an easy way to do it. But the real treat with Rick's upgrades is that you get a faster steering ratio. You won't get that with a slap-on electric pump.

fiero-iwan (iwan@eleven.yi.org) MSG #217, 12-28-2006 09:17 AM
      Just a bump to keep this out of the archives.
Has anyone installed theirs yet? Hoping for some real driving impressions.

I havent found the time to weld mine in, when I do I'll post results here. Also is there an electic pump that attaches to the lines of the rack (not the steering column)? I Have am l76 with powersteering pump that I was going to use, however it looks like I will not be able to use it in the fiero as the alternator needs to be moved down for decklidclearance and dogbone mounting into the area the PS pump is in. I could move the alt to where the AC is but I would loose AC... Anyone else run into this same problem??

I may start a sepperate thread on this but just wanted to bump this excellent one first


Iwan


TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #218, 12-28-2006 10:18 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fiero-iwan:

Just a bump to keep this out of the archives.
Has anyone installed theirs yet? Hoping for some real driving impressions.

I havent found the time to weld mine in, when I do I'll post results here. Also is there an electic pump that attaches to the lines of the rack (not the steering column)? I Have am l76 with powersteering pump that I was going to use, however it looks like I will not be able to use it in the fiero as the alternator needs to be moved down for decklidclearance and dogbone mounting into the area the PS pump is in. I could move the alt to where the AC is but I would loose AC... Anyone else run into this same problem??

I may start a sepperate thread on this but just wanted to bump this excellent one first


Iwan


I understand your problems, unfortunately I have no concrete solutions. I am going to pursue installing the MR2 electric power steering pump. The problems with it are that it either runs full blast all the time, or you need to control it somehow. To control it you can transplant the entire system from an MR2 (expensive and hard to find all the parts even in the US) or come up with your own circuit to control it. I still haven't worked out the electronics, but I have some friends who can help me with it.

As far as the L67, I have heard of similar problems, but you are ahead of me on the engine swap.



Daviero MSG #219, 12-28-2006 01:42 PM
      Rick, do you still have any adaptor sets? I have had a ZR1 rack for some time now, but am still completing a Nothstar install. The rack is next on the list.
Thanks, Dave.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #220, 12-28-2006 07:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Daviero:

Rick, do you still have any adaptor sets? I have had a ZR1 rack for some time now, but am still completing a Nothstar install. The rack is next on the list.
Thanks, Dave.



Yes I have some left. I just need to make more mounts for the adapters. If you do the N* swap you can use the pump that is on it. Just run the lines to the rack.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #221, 12-28-2006 09:52 PM
      soooo very tempting!


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #222, 12-28-2006 10:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

soooo very tempting!


HaHa. I would never have a manual steering Fiero again, 88 or not. The faster ratio is the selling point if you want less effort or not.



Daviero MSG #223, 12-29-2006 08:50 AM
      Rick, I PM'd you.
Dave


RUNDLC (hmdznrcld@comcast.net) MSG #224, 12-29-2006 12:37 PM
      Rick check for PM

Daviero MSG #225, 01-01-2007 07:58 PM
      Is this the date stamp showing this ZR1 rack is of the date 08/11/86?

It also has the number 7849001 cast into the input shaft neck, is 2 turns full rotation, and has about 4.25" stroke.
I got it as a freebe at the local yard for giving one of the owners some parts off my doner Caddi Deville.



Spiff (jonpanop@verizon.net) MSG #226, 03-27-2007 07:42 PM
      Bump to keep this out of the archives

Madess (madess@fuse.net) MSG #227, 04-10-2007 04:56 PM
      Rickady88GT

will this work on 84 thru 87's or will your mounts only work on 88's?


Madess (madess@fuse.net) MSG #228, 04-10-2007 04:59 PM
      has anyone tried driving it without it hooked up to power steering with the corvette rack? I may just have to beef up my arms a little.

fieroturbo (fieroturbo@yahoo.com) MSG #229, 05-12-2007 02:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TG oreiF 8891:

I think so, your logic appears sound to me. That's what I was thinking. I am not the electronics guru, but with all the knowledge on this forum, it seems to me that someone could make a controller work off the vss signal. It could control the current to the pump so it gave none (or very little) at speed and full power under say 5 mph. I think its possible, but I am more mechanical than electronic, so I am probably not the one to test it out.

Edit: Question: Would the pump wear out to quickly if it ran all the time the car was at less than 5 mph? Does it then need a mechanism to turn on when you start turning?



Ahh! I was hoping I could be of some assistance in this project... here's where I come in.

There aren't any widespread speed-triggered modules out there, but there are alot of RPM triggered modules, like the ones MSD makes. Could mod one, as the signal put out by the sender is a bunch of pulses, just like a crank sensor.

Another thing too, the sender unit is a small permanent magnet generator. Could just make a circuit to sense how much voltage is coming out of it, and have that flip a relay off.

My meter has datalogging capability. My Fiero is in the middle of an engine swap right now, but when I get it back up and running, I'll patch my meter into the signal coming out of the speed sender and see what is put out at what speeds.

I've done circuit designing before, so this is an easy one for me.

As far as preventing the pump from wearing out at idle, I guess something could be rigged into the circuit to sense when the brakes are on. Maybe have it turn off when the brakes are on for more than 20 seconds and the car is at 0 MPH.



Some Call Me Tim MSG #230, 05-17-2007 05:06 PM
      I have come to this party late, but it seems that this thread has stopped abruptly. Has anyone finished with their vette rack install? How does it handle? I know it is a long shot, but Rick, do you have any more of those brackets and adapters left?

Fieroseverywhere (caalon777@hotmail.com) MSG #231, 05-17-2007 08:15 PM
      I have something to contribute. I don't know if any of you have seen this before but have a look...
http://www.fierofocus.com/a...Power%20Steering.htm

It was sold through Saturn dealerships. Maybe you could buy parts?
Now if we can only find the rack they used on the fiero!?

The 2008 Saturn Astra (coming out later this year) will have electric power steering also.
http://media.gm.com/us/gm/e...a%20announcement.htm

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 05-17-2007).]

TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #232, 05-17-2007 10:58 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroturbo:


Ahh! I was hoping I could be of some assistance in this project... here's where I come in.

There aren't any widespread speed-triggered modules out there, but there are alot of RPM triggered modules, like the ones MSD makes. Could mod one, as the signal put out by the sender is a bunch of pulses, just like a crank sensor.

Another thing too, the sender unit is a small permanent magnet generator. Could just make a circuit to sense how much voltage is coming out of it, and have that flip a relay off.

My meter has datalogging capability. My Fiero is in the middle of an engine swap right now, but when I get it back up and running, I'll patch my meter into the signal coming out of the speed sender and see what is put out at what speeds.

I've done circuit designing before, so this is an easy one for me.

As far as preventing the pump from wearing out at idle, I guess something could be rigged into the circuit to sense when the brakes are on. Maybe have it turn off when the brakes are on for more than 20 seconds and the car is at 0 MPH.



Hmm... some good thought in there I hadn't thought of. If you get to working on this, send me a PM or email, I'd like to talk about how to implement this kind of thing. Circuits are not really my thing, but the brake pedal timer thing sounds good, except that with my manual transmission, a lot of times I don't keep my foot on the brake. Maybe instead a timer on the RPM signal; when the RPM's stay below 1000 for over 5 seconds, idle the pump. How's that sound?


Toaster_Man (jon.saale@gmail.com) MSG #233, 05-20-2007 01:15 AM
      I would think that trolling around a parking lot in an automatic, or actually parking, you wouldn't always take the revs up past idle. I know that when I do parking lot maneuvers in an auto I usually have my foot on the brake rather than the gas.

TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #234, 05-22-2007 05:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Toaster_Man:

I would think that trolling around a parking lot in an automatic, or actually parking, you wouldn't always take the revs up past idle. I know that when I do parking lot maneuvers in an auto I usually have my foot on the brake rather than the gas.


Hmm... good point. Any better ideas.


TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #235, 06-07-2007 10:02 PM
      Bad news. I finally got around to looking at my supposedly 1993 corvette rack. I took off the corvette inner tie rods and was aghast to find...female threads? Hmmm, either I got hosed on ebay or one of the changes to the rack was to invert the threads. Unfortunately, both are possible scenarios, and since its been over a year since I bought the rack, I really have no way to complain or say anything. Hopefully I can still use it as a core at Autozone or something.

Good luck to everyone else with their projects.

Tom



fieroturbo (fieroturbo@yahoo.com) MSG #236, 06-08-2007 06:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TG oreiF 8891:
...except that with my manual transmission, a lot of times I don't keep my foot on the brake. Maybe instead a timer on the RPM signal; when the RPM's stay below 1000 for over 5 seconds, idle the pump. How's that sound?


Something to keep in mind is that the clutch has a switch too. The Fiero has a ignition kill switch on the clutch pedal so you can't start the car without the clutch pedal being pushed in. Could just tap into that.

Sorry to hear the bad news about the rack.

I hope this concept becomes easily feasable. I really could use a new rack on my 88.


TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #237, 06-09-2007 12:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroturbo:


Something to keep in mind is that the clutch has a switch too. The Fiero has a ignition kill switch on the clutch pedal so you can't start the car without the clutch pedal being pushed in. Could just tap into that.

Sorry to hear the bad news about the rack.

I hope this concept becomes easily feasable. I really could use a new rack on my 88.


Yes, I had thought of that, but many times in a parking lot situation, where you need significant power assist, I would have already pushed in the clutch and be coasting as I turn into my spot. On the other hand, as I leave the parking lot, I sometimes have the clutch fully released in first gear as I make turns through the lot.

So, I'm still looking for an electronic solution. For now I think I am going to keep the wires for the MR2 steering position sensor, but not use them and leave it run all the time. There are some EV (electric Vehicle) people who have done the same (leave it run) although I think they put in a manual switch to turn it off to save battery power. I think the pump should have a very high duty cycle rating, so we'll see if I burn one up.

Thanks for your concern; the rack will turn out ok. I'll get a rebuilt one and use the old one as a core - still get more than I paid out of it. I am pursuing this because I too could use a new rack for my 88. It has sloppiness in the middle. If I tighten it down, then it is too tight at the ends. When I leave it loose at the ends, it is very sloppy in the middle.


fieroturbo (fieroturbo@yahoo.com) MSG #238, 06-09-2007 03:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TG oreiF 8891:
If I tighten it down, then it is too tight at the ends. When I leave it loose at the ends, it is very sloppy in the middle.


My issue is, I can't tighten it down. The ring around my adjustment screw is stuck. Even tried Rodney's tool.



TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #239, 06-09-2007 10:51 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroturbo:


My issue is, I can't tighten it down. The ring around my adjustment screw is stuck. Even tried Rodney's tool.


If it is significantly loose in the middle, you might end up with my problem if you could tighten it down. While I haven't tried it in the car, The corvette rack I have (wrong one for this conversion) is relatively easy to turn (similar to my tightened Fiero rack) without the power lines hooked up. If you are eventually going to do this conversion, you may want to think about getting a used rack, draining the fluid, and attempting to use it as a manual rack until you can get the hydraulics worked out. Just a thought, anyways.


mrseidler (sseidler@sbcglobal.net) MSG #240, 07-07-2007 07:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TG oreiF 8891:


Yes, I had thought of that, but many times in a parking lot situation, where you need significant power assist, I would have already pushed in the clutch and be coasting as I turn into my spot. On the other hand, as I leave the parking lot, I sometimes have the clutch fully released in first gear as I make turns through the lot.

So, I'm still looking for an electronic solution. For now I think I am going to keep the wires for the MR2 steering position sensor, but not use them and leave it run all the time. There are some EV (electric Vehicle) people who have done the same (leave it run) although I think they put in a manual switch to turn it off to save battery power. I think the pump should have a very high duty cycle rating, so we'll see if I burn one up.

Thanks for your concern; the rack will turn out ok. I'll get a rebuilt one and use the old one as a core - still get more than I paid out of it. I am pursuing this because I too could use a new rack for my 88. It has sloppiness in the middle. If I tighten it down, then it is too tight at the ends. When I leave it loose at the ends, it is very sloppy in the middle.




mrseidler (sseidler@sbcglobal.net) MSG #241, 07-07-2007 07:09 PM
      Wouldn't it be sufficient to make it so the MR2 pump is on full power at zero-10mph and then the have the power assist decline up to 60 mph? Then you get power steering at low speeds but none at high speeds when you don't need it?

[This message has been edited by mrseidler (edited 07-07-2007).]

madcurl (madcurl@fiero-performance.com) MSG #242, 07-15-2007 02:51 PM
      A bump for Troyboy.

TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #243, 07-17-2007 06:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrseidler:

Wouldn't it be sufficient to make it so the MR2 pump is on full power at zero-10mph and then the have the power assist decline up to 60 mph? Then you get power steering at low speeds but none at high speeds when you don't need it?


That is exactly what I'm doing. The stock MR2 power steering electronics will work fine for controlling the pump speed inversely with the vehicle speed. I don't know how to emulate the MR2 steering position sensor. The MR2's steering position sensor helps lengthen the life of the electro-hydraulic PS pump by reducing its speed when the car is at low speed but needs little or no PS assist. For instance, when stopped at a traffic signal, there is no reason to have full power assist.

Tom


TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #244, 07-18-2007 10:04 PM
      Ha! I hooked it up backwards. I didn't know which port on the rack was pressure in and which was out, so I took a guess, and I guessed wrong! It is kinda funny though, without turning the wheel, it sits perfectly still. Then, as soon as the wheel is turned even the slightest amount, the PS takes over, rips the wheel out of my hands and turns the OPPOSITE direction. HA!!! If you ever wondered what would happen if you connected PS up backwards at the steering rack, I now know.

Daviero MSG #245, 07-28-2007 08:03 PM
      Well......I thought I had a Corvette power rack.....?!!
Does anyone have any input on this one?
The rack came from wrecker/parts seller already off the car but tagged as a vette rack.
Here is the date stamp and the casting number of the rack. Note that it appears correct:



Problem is the rack is not centred on the front cossmenber as can be seen by the different distance from the end of the rack to the control arm mount holes on each side of the crossmember. Note that I took care to center the rack prior to doing this. The pen marks show how much past 2 turns the rack goes, but there were no bump stops mounted for this determination. Pen marks are full left, full right, and center.






Also, I measure the 88 Fiero rack to be 28 9/16" long measuring from the shoulder to shoulder of the ends ( not the ends of the threaded part) and the same measurement on my "apparent vette rack" with Rick's adaptors mounted is only 28 3/16" which is 3/8" shorter. I cannot move the rack any further to the right to accomodate the offset as the hydraulic line would interfere with the right side mount as seen here:



Oh...the odd color of the crossmember is because it is already blasted and etched for paint - I kinda got out of step here I guess!
Any ideas or do I just "got the wrong rack"??? I can't go back since the 88 mount is gone!

Edit: just a typo.


Daviero MSG #246, 08-02-2007 09:29 PM
      Well, I just picked up a rebuilt rack from Napa for an 84 or 85 Corvette with the 2 turns ratio. It turns out to be the same rack as the 86 date stamped rack rack I got already from the yard! I will return it to recover my $310.00. So my dimensional saga continues...Help?
Also some info from rebuilder I got through Napa: 84/85 racks are the same dimensionally and extrenally as the 86/87 racks, but have differences internally. I did not get the inside difference information though. Thus Napa has different part numbers for the 84/85, 86/87 and 88 to 92 racks. I suspect the diferences may be something like orifice size, assist/effort ratio or flow matching to a different pump?
Still - any suggestions from anybody as to the dimensional problems outlined in my last post? Rick??



TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #247, 08-02-2007 10:09 PM
      Hmmm. I probably wasn't as exact as you are being with your install. However, I had no trouble getting mine to center. I remember grinding on Rickady's mount a bit to get it level with the cross-member, but no problems centering it. Similarly to you, I put the rack in the center and installed it trying to get both sides even. I think it came out pretty close. Are you sure the steering shaft is aligned to where the center is on the car? It doesn't entirely matter where the center of the rack is for this install, because the steering wheel is not indexable (or not much, some say it is). Therefore, you have to have the corvette rack's input shaft in the same position as the steering wheel and column in the car for straight ahead.

I find this difficult to explain, but if you were to set it up perfectly centered, but it was 90degrees off from the steering wheel in the car, they would mess it all up at alignment, because they would move the tie-rods over till the steering wheel was point straight and so were the wheels. All I'm saying is to make sure the steering input shaft matches the steering intermediate shaft (for lack of a better name).

If I can be of any help, post, PM or email me.

Tom



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #248, 08-03-2007 12:00 PM
      Just got back from a week long camping trip. Give me a minute to look over some of the questions and then I'll reply.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #249, 08-03-2007 12:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Daviero:

Well......I thought I had a Corvette power rack.....?!!
Does anyone have any input on this one?
The rack came from wrecker/parts seller already off the car but tagged as a vette rack.
Here is the date stamp and the casting number of the rack. Note that it appears correct:

Problem is the rack is not centred on the front cossmenber as can be seen by the different distance from the end of the rack to the control arm mount holes on each side of the crossmember. Note that I took care to center the rack prior to doing this. The pen marks show how much past 2 turns the rack goes, but there were no bump stops mounted for this determination. Pen marks are full left, full right, and center.




Also, I measure the 88 Fiero rack to be 28 9/16" long measuring from the shoulder to shoulder of the ends ( not the ends of the threaded part) and the same measurement on my "apparent vette rack" with Rick's adaptors mounted is only 28 3/16" which is 3/8" shorter. I cannot move the rack any further to the right to accomodate the offset as the hydraulic line would interfere with the right side mount as seen here:



Oh...the odd color of the crossmember is because it is already blasted and etched for paint - I kinda got out of step here I guess!
Any ideas or do I just "got the wrong rack"??? I can't go back since the 88 mount is gone!

Edit: just a typo.

I did not look in the garage to check on numbers? But the rack "looks" OK to me on first look.

Now I did center the rack as perfectly as possible. In my rack the steering input shaft did line up just right for my car. Just remember that the alignment will get the steering wheel in the "perfect orientation relative to the front wheels. This will be done by shortening on tie rod end or lengthening the other by screwing them in or out. So for this reason I would not be concerned about the 3/8 length difference between the stock rack and Vette rack. AS LONG AS THE ADAPTER ENDES ARE SCREWED ON ALL THE WAY? The 3/8 will be split in half so only 3/16 on each side is very small BUT if this is a problem for you I will see if I can have more sets of adapters made to cover the different years of racks. That way people don't have to look so hard to find the "perfect" rack.
Now I did center the rack using the adapters on the Vette rack as the "critical" measuring points. The ideal location for the threads on the adapters is in the exact location as the stock Fiero rack threads. That way the stock Fiero geometry does not change. I have seen some difference in manufacturing between different Fiero's so some of the very close tolerances may need to be "modified" from car to car.
I see that the hydraulic line on your passenger side can be closer to the mount. This will allow the rack to move over to the passenger side enough to cover the 3/16 you need. It looks like one pic has the cut rubber mount but in another pic the rubber mount is not cut? I did cut out a small piece of the rubber mount to get the rack to move closer to the passenger side. I did not need to cut a notch in the metal strap mount, but that is an option too. BUT I would NOT cut much off with out reinforcing the strap a bit.




Does this help? If not let me know and I will try again.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 08-03-2007).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #250, 08-03-2007 01:12 PM
      I know that one of the differences between the early year racks is the length of the body of the rack. The easy way to tell is by looking at the ends of the body itself.


Driver side.
this rack is the "short rack" It has a longer lip after the boot ring grove.


This is the "long rack" it has a short lip after the boot ring grove.


Passenger side. The "short rack" has a long shoulder coming out of the hydraulic cylinder.


The "long rack" has a short shoulder.


Dave, you have the "short rack". It has the long lip on the driver side and long shoulder on the passenger side. I did not find any other difference between the racks. And no reason they can not be used. Just make sure you center the rack gear in the body of the steering rack as best you can, then center the adapters between the A arm mounts/cross member as best you can. Then you can center the steering wheel during alignment. It will be very close to start with.


Daviero MSG #251, 08-05-2007 02:41 PM
      Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it. Rick, you must like the mountains – you were vacationing there earlier in this thread too! Like you guys I finally settled to the realization that minor differences in the mount of the power rack would yield minor if any differences in the steering performance of the car. So I forged ahead. I mounted the rack using the bolts in the lower control arm ears as the side to side and vertical dimension reference points, and 2 mounting holes in the crossmember for the fore-aft reference. I got all to with ± .020” with whatever tolerance my vernier/trisquare/table arrangement allows. To center the travel on the rack I measured the travel at each end of the rack and equaled the dimensions. I also relocated the right side mount for the rack on the crossmember so I could use the right side rubber and strap without modifying them, and to provide clearance to the hydraulic tube.

Question: It appears that I will need a longer input shaft. I pulled a string side to side of the crossmember between 2 mounting holes and the dimension between the string and the end of the input shaft on the rack is about 5/8” longer for the vette rack. The Fiero rack has a slide, but is pinned with 2 plastic pins about 3/32” diameter. Is it prudent to break the pins and extend the slide? I could thru’ drill the hole again and re-pint it with plastic. The vette input shaft is longer, but about 5/8” too long.

Another question: My Fiero rack had only 1 plastic bump stop. The vette rack had 2 but are thicker and would rob travel. Would it be prudent to leave these out to achieve more rack travel (since the vette has less I think?) or should I hunt down another plastic Fiero bump stop to eliminate the hard surface contact? I suppose I could thin down 1 vette bump stop to match the Fiero one I have, or just use the 2 vette ones and be done with it? Am I thinking to hard on this?

Thanks, Dave.



TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #252, 08-05-2007 05:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Daviero:

Question: It appears that I will need a longer input shaft. I pulled a string side to side of the crossmember between 2 mounting holes and the dimension between the string and the end of the input shaft on the rack is about 5/8” longer for the vette rack. The Fiero rack has a slide, but is pinned with 2 plastic pins about 3/32” diameter. Is it prudent to break the pins and extend the slide? I could thru’ drill the hole again and re-pint it with plastic. The vette input shaft is longer, but about 5/8” too long.

I had no problems using the stock input shaft. I would not drill out those pins. They are shear pins. In case of an accident, the plastic shears and the steering shaft collapses, preventing the steering column from making a Dave-Ka-Bob out of you. I know you could put plastic back in, but I recommend test fitting it in there as is. Mine worked just fine.
 
quote
Originally posted by Daviero:
Another question: My Fiero rack had only 1 plastic bump stop. The vette rack had 2 but are thicker and would rob travel. Would it be prudent to leave these out to achieve more rack travel (since the vette has less I think?) or should I hunt down another plastic Fiero bump stop to eliminate the hard surface contact? I suppose I could thin down 1 vette bump stop to match the Fiero one I have, or just use the 2 vette ones and be done with it? Am I thinking to hard on this?

I have several extra plastic bump stops around here if you need them. On mine, I put Fiero bump stops on the corvette rack. As far as travel goes, it is magnificent, I can turn much tighter than before. When cranked over to the stop, the inside rear tire is barely moving! However, I am concerned that I may be over-extending the rack. I have no proof either way, apart from the fact that in the corvette, GM didn't allow the rack to extend as far as I am using it. Therefore, I am trying not to ever reach the bump stops. You really won't need to...unless you are showing off!

Tom


Daviero MSG #253, 08-05-2007 06:05 PM
      Yes true, - a Dave-Ka-Bob would not be good. I will test fit and report back. In the case that the shaft needs to be longer though, if I extened it and even used a bit of silicone or similar to make it not rattle, then I would have even more anti - Dave-Ka-Bob compression space? Thanks for the offer for the end stops Tom. I'll see if I can find a Fiero one locally - failing that I'll let you know.

Dave



Daviero MSG #254, 08-07-2007 05:59 PM
      The test fit went well. The stock Fiero steering shaft fits perfect unmodified, just as Rick and Tom suggested it would. I did see however that my movement of the right side rack mount a little to the right to accomodate the hydraulic tubing will make it a little more difficult to make and install a boot extension though. All in all this is a good modification - Thanks again Rick!
Dave



sspeedstreet (sspeedstreet@verizon.net) MSG #255, 08-07-2007 09:29 PM
      Rick- I'm fitting the Corvette rack to the '88 crossmember and see for the first time the passenger side mounting point is round, not "D" shape:

1991 Corvette rack mount bushing:


1988 Fiero rack mount bushing:


This is the best view of yours I can find. It looks like a "D" shape bushing with a round center:


What did you use for a bushing?


TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #256, 08-12-2007 11:08 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sspeedstreet:

Rick- I'm fitting the Corvette rack to the '88 crossmember and see for the first time the passenger side mounting point is round, not "D" shape:

What did you use for a bushing?


As I recall, the "D" shaped bushing is for the mount that you are replacing. The other "tube" end of the rack has a round bushing that will work on the corvette rack, with minor trimming to make it thinner (less wide). The "D" shaped bushing you can leave on the Fiero rack, it is not needed. The corvette rack comes with its own round bushing that will work with Rickadys mount.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #257, 08-13-2007 12:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Daviero:

Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it. Rick, you must like the mountains – you were vacationing there earlier in this thread too!

Another question: My Fiero rack had only 1 plastic bump stop. The vette rack had 2 but are thicker and would rob travel. Would it be prudent to leave these out to achieve more rack travel (since the vette has less I think?) or should I hunt down another plastic Fiero bump stop to eliminate the hard surface contact? I suppose I could thin down 1 vette bump stop to match the Fiero one I have, or just use the 2 vette ones and be done with it? Am I thinking to hard on this?

Thanks, Dave.




Well we just got back from an 8 day stay in the mountains We love the Jeep on off road trails that are so far away from the ordinary. We stay in a pop up trailer.
The last time I replied to this thread, we were home for a day and a half to get ready for another trip.


GM makes many different sizes of "bump stops" that clip over the inner tie rod ends. Just be aware that the rack may not have the clearance for the extra travel of the piston between the fluid in/out holes if you use thinner bump stops. In other words, if you use thin bump stops for extra wheel travel the piston will travel further and possibly interfere with the inlet holes? IF the rack has the clearance for longer travel, then it IS worth using thin bump stops. But the need for lock to lock steering is rare for me. If you use after market wheels, they could limit your steering more than the rack. The 88 is sensitive to wide wheels and different off sets.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #258, 08-13-2007 12:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sspeedstreet:

Rick- I'm fitting the Corvette rack to the '88 crossmember and see for the first time the passenger side mounting point is round, not "D" shape:

1991 Corvette rack mount bushing:


1988 Fiero rack mount bushing:


This is the best view of yours I can find. It looks like a "D" shape bushing with a round center:


What did you use for a bushing?


The bushing in that pic is for the driver side of the Fiero rack. It is totally different than the passenger side mount. The pass side mount is round in the center and has large snap rings in it to locate it on the cylinder solidly.

I just used a stock Fiero bushing. The Vette bushing is just sitting on a shelf. I used the Fiero bushing for a few reasons. First off it fit just right. It has more surface aria to contact the cross member (seems like it would be a more stable mount) and it has metal snap rings in it that would help If they were to snap into a grove. I did have plans to mount the rack in a lathe and cut the proper rig groves in the cylinder for the Fiero mount.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 08-13-2007).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #259, 08-13-2007 01:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Daviero:

The test fit went well. The stock Fiero steering shaft fits perfect unmodified, just as Rick and Tom suggested it would. I did see however that my movement of the right side rack mount a little to the right to accomodate the hydraulic tubing will make it a little more difficult to make and install a boot extension though. All in all this is a good modification - Thanks again Rick!
Dave



There are many "small things" that will need to be addressed in a swap like this. But I did not expect to find some things that need to be clearanced in one car, but not others. The manufacturing process was a little loose I guess? Then take into account that my fab work is not any better. So some things that need to be done on your car may or may not need to be done on others? But I am only talking about "small stuff"

Make sure that you check the bulkhead to steering shaft clearance. I needed to open up the hole a bit to fit. The shaft is not perfectly straight. Mine had a wobble that hit one side as I turned the steering wheel. The stock Fiero boot will fit fine.



sspeedstreet (sspeedstreet@verizon.net) MSG #260, 08-13-2007 10:47 PM
      Thanks, Rick. I tried to get that bushing off the Fiero rack and was afraid I'd tear it trying to get it off. Since my last post I bought two of the straps the Corvette uses.



This way the stock Corvette bushing can be used. I'll post some pictures of how I'm going to mount them when they get here.


Daviero MSG #261, 08-19-2007 08:55 AM
      All is almost done except the plumbing.....
Which port is pressure - port # 1 or port # 2?



Thanks, Dave.


TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #262, 08-19-2007 12:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Daviero:

All is almost done except the plumbing.....
Which port is pressure - port # 1 or port # 2?



Thanks, Dave.

Crap, I cannot tell from the picture. On mine, it had two different sized openings. I am 100% positive that the LARGER port is the pressure side. I originally hooked it up in reverse thinking that the smaller size should be higher pressure; I was wrong resulting in very funky steering response. I hope I didn't damage anything. If you need me to, I can take a look at mine, but it is raining pretty heavily today so I'd rather not.
Hope this helps,
Tom


Daviero MSG #263, 08-20-2007 09:35 AM
      Tom, please have a look if you don't mind. I have not pulled the port plugs to check the port size, but if they are different sizes all the more reason to get it right - I want to have crimped end hoses made up to connect to the steel lines that run up to the front next to the gas tank. If they are different sizes I'd of thought the low pressure side would be larger?
Thanks, Dave.


sspeedstreet (sspeedstreet@verizon.net) MSG #264, 08-20-2007 03:35 PM
      I discovered at my local hydraulic hose supply that GM PS racks (and pumps) use metric O-ring sealed fittings. If you're not using original Corvette lines you need an adapter. I used steel ones from here:

http://www.jdaent.com/deskt...abID=5546&pCatID=816

The 16 and 18mm sizes.

I don't know which port is pressure and which is return either, so I'm also waiting for an answer.

[This message has been edited by sspeedstreet (edited 08-20-2007).]

TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #265, 08-20-2007 10:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sspeedstreet:

I discovered at my local hydraulic hose supply that GM PS racks (and pumps) use metric O-ring sealed fittings. If you're not using original Corvette lines you need an adapter. I used steel ones from here:

http://www.jdaent.com/deskt...abID=5546&pCatID=816

The 16 and 18mm sizes.

I don't know which port is pressure and which is return either, so I'm also waiting for an answer.



As I said above, the LARGER port is the pressure side. I had at first assumed that as the fluid lost pressure, it would need a larger cross sectional area to flow through. This is apparently not the case.

I know this 100% for sure because I hooked it up backwards. If you like, I can tell you exactly what happens when the power steering system is hooked up backwards. At rest (not turning the steering wheel) all appears to be fine. As soon as the steering wheel is moved even the slightest in one direction, the pump rips the wheel out of your hands and sends it spinning all the way to the bump stop in the opposite direction. Trust me, I think I might have cause some damage to the internals because I did this at least twice before I figured it out.

And yes, they are metric power steering fittings. I got JIC adapters from www.a1racing.com.



Daviero MSG #266, 08-20-2007 10:51 PM
      For custom hydraulic fittings like this, I silver solder the GM o-ring fitting to a standard crimp fitting and get the local hydraulic shop tp crimp it. A little fooling around, yes, but much cheaper, and also less bulk. As far as pressure capacity goes, I noticed that even my stainless steel brake lines I got from the Fiero Store have some silver soldered fittings.
As far as the ports, I guess I'll try the large one on the pressure.......
Thanks, Dave.


thebaron (eric.murray@tekkoshocon.com) MSG #267, 08-20-2007 11:02 PM
      Not knowing much about steering racks (other then standard citation rack sucks compared to x-11's), but wonder if the corvette rack would be better than my 85 x-11 rack and would it fit?

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #268, 08-21-2007 02:25 AM
      For the pump lines I used GM lines that fit the pump best. I looked for lines that did not cause interference with the engine or compartment and ran them were I wanted them to go as if they were just factory Fiero power steering lines. Then I cut off the metal ends on the rack side about half way between the flare and the crimp. I welded the "remnant" to the front end of hydraulic rated metal hydro pipe that I custom bent under the car. I did this for each line. The fittings will only go on the pump and the rack one way, so do one at a time and you cant mix them up.
The rack end of the hard line dose not need a flexible hose, so it can be hard lined all the way to the rack. But the rear (engine end) dose need to flex with the engine. So the stock GM line that fits your application best will have some rubber hose and a metal end crimped on each end of it. The end you cut the flare off of will need to be welded or some other way of "disconnect" like a furl to connect the factory metal hose to the custom hydro pipe. The engine may need to come out some day so I would not weld the ends together at the rear. So basically what I did was take a set of stock GM power steering lines and bolted one end to the pump and "stretched" the other end of the lines to reach the rack.


REMEMBER, THE POWER STEERING LINE PRESSURE CAN BE AS HIGH AS 2000 PSI. Don't underestimate it. Don't cheap out. DO THE LINES RIGHT.


Does this make sense? If not I will try to explain it again.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #269, 08-21-2007 02:37 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by thebaron:

Not knowing much about steering racks (other then standard citation rack sucks compared to x-11's), but wonder if the corvette rack would be better than my 85 x-11 rack and would it fit?


What is an x-11 rack?
What do you mean by "better"?
What do you want power steering to do for you?
The Corvette racks come in two ratios. One is very fast and will make the Fiero turn like a Go Cart. The other ratio is more for street driving in a daily driver. BUT the slower ratio rack is much faster than the stock Fiero rack and will reduce your steering wheel lock to lock turning from about 3.5 to about 2.25 or 2.0 depending on the rack you get.



jweisman (joeweisman346@aol.com) MSG #270, 08-21-2007 03:42 AM
      The Citation X11 rack is a rear steer rack, it won't work

Daviero MSG #271, 08-23-2007 11:15 PM
      I used 3/8 steel brake line for my piping under the car, and welded JIC fittings to each end to connect flex lines to the pump and the rack. I hope brake line is strong enough?
I found that a pressure line from a 90 Intrepid fits the rack and is about 2'-0" long - long enough to reach the front of the tunnel where the hard line ends. Ugh - a Dodge part though!!

Question: I removed the front tub after I removed the front crossmember. I have the front crossmember back in the car now with the new rack but can't seem to get the tub in with the crossmember there. Does the crossmember have to be lowered a bit to get the tub in or do you have to twist the tub a certain way like a chinese puzzle??
Thanks, Dave



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #272, 08-23-2007 11:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Daviero:


Question: I removed the front tub after I removed the front crossmember. I have the front crossmember back in the car now with the new rack but can't seem to get the tub in with the crossmember there. Does the crossmember have to be lowered a bit to get the tub in or do you have to twist the tub a certain way like a chinese puzzle??
Thanks, Dave



The first few times I did it took a while, and I even thought I would have to lower the X member. But I just worked it in. That tub will bend. And two of the tubs I put in had the WCF front battery tray just to make it harder to fit in.



JCUOIT MSG #273, 11-25-2007 02:04 PM
      Bump for a good upgrade.

JC


BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #274, 01-15-2008 09:32 PM
      Bump

BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #275, 01-15-2008 09:51 PM
      Bump

Icelander (whit@dubhlinn.com) MSG #276, 01-16-2008 01:26 AM
      Regarding the PS pump speed: Is the pump you are using the MR2 pump? I'm unaware of how it works but I would think that a standard engine-mounted pump would be valved to regulate pressure at higher rotation speed. Either it is this or the rack is valved to adjust for the increased pressure from the pump's faster rotation.

I would think that you would not want to completely drop the fluid pressure at higher speed as the take-up from zero may introduce lag in your steering response.

Of course, this is only my speculation. I am not an engineer.



TG oreiF 8891 (tdirham@yahoo.com) MSG #277, 01-16-2008 08:52 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Icelander:

Regarding the PS pump speed: Is the pump you are using the MR2 pump? I'm unaware of how it works but I would think that a standard engine-mounted pump would be valved to regulate pressure at higher rotation speed. Either it is this or the rack is valved to adjust for the increased pressure from the pump's faster rotation.

I would think that you would not want to completely drop the fluid pressure at higher speed as the take-up from zero may introduce lag in your steering response.

Of course, this is only my speculation. I am not an engineer.




I don't mean to hijack Rickady's thread, I beleive he is using the standard engine mounted pumps. I think he does the power steering conversion along with or after an engine swap; thus, using an engine mounted pump (from the swapped engine) is relatively easy.

I, on the other hand, wanted to wait until I do an engine swap, but my 88 rack was worn so I had to put in the PS with the old 2.8. I searched on here for a way to mount a PS pump on the 2.8 and even spoke to Rodney Dickman about the mounting of the PS in the Meras, but I could not come up with anything simple enough to match my limited fabrication skills and tools. Therefore, I opted for the MR2 electric power steering pump.

You are quite right, there is the potential for lag, or delay in the assist, but I have it wired as best as I can. The engineers who designed the MR2 system thought of all this as well, and they did the best they could to combat all these problems. They solved most of the issues. After all, if they hadn't, it wouldn't have been an option in the MR2. There is a timer in the electronics so that if the computer doesn't get a signal from the VSS for 45-60 seconds (I never timed it but really long lights will trip it) the pump will completely turn off. This is bad at really long lights, but very nice when you want to just turn the radio on, or while working on the car. While at speed, I don't think it turns all the way off. You really can't notice anyway, because above about 40 mph it takes very little force to steer the car. I installed the PS for the ratio, and for parking lots, not for the highway. It is all about trade-offs.

Since I live in Ohio and don't want any salt on my baby, I haven't driven it in several months now. When I put her away I needed to deal with a few remaining issues: 1. I need a new rack from Autozone, the one they gave me is loose. 2. The pump makes an excessive amount of noise. I need to see if the flow is restricted at the rack (see #1), PS fluid cooler, connections, or reservoir. 3. I need to tidy up the mess of wires I left in the front. I was so happy it worked and I got to drive the car in the fall before putting it away I left the mess. When I get her back out this spring I'll start a thread documenting what I did and see if I can solve the problems I have encountered. I've already had a few people email me with questions so there are a few others already tackling this and I'm sure I wasn't the first anyway.

Edit to add #3 and correct grammar

[This message has been edited by TG oreiF 8891 (edited 01-16-2008).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #278, 01-17-2008 12:50 AM
      I am doing a 4.9 Cady conversion in the Vette rack GT. The pump is a 3800 series II with a remote reservoir. Custom brackets that mount it in the 2.8 V6 alt location. I started a thread a while back but don't think I will keep it going.

I don't mind at all if people contribute to the tread. Someone will always figure out a better way of doing things, and that will help us all if it is posted.


stickpony MSG #279, 01-17-2008 01:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


What is an x-11 rack?
What do you mean by "better"?
What do you want power steering to do for you?
The Corvette racks come in two ratios. One is very fast and will make the Fiero turn like a Go Cart. The other ratio is more for street driving in a daily driver. BUT the slower ratio rack is much faster than the stock Fiero rack and will reduce your steering wheel lock to lock turning from about 3.5 to about 2.25 or 2.0 depending on the rack you get.


x-11 refers to the chevy citation x-11, but its a rear steer rack, it wouldnt work for this app anyways


BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #280, 02-29-2008 09:48 AM
      Bump because knowledge is POWER!!!

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #281, 02-29-2008 12:32 PM
      Looks like I wont need the remote res for the 4.9. I will mount the pump in the stock Fiero alt location because it looks like it will fit........so far? I have mocked up a mount for the pump that will be welded to the passenger side rear motor mount bracket. The part of the mount that bolts to the block and tranny. The pulley is the closest part of the set up. It is very close to the shock tower lower frame. The rest of the pump looks good.


Ralphy Boy (royj@bitchingear.biz) MSG #282, 06-25-2008 09:31 PM
      Any updates on this Rick? The time has come for my very own 4.9 '88 GT with power steering. Do you or anyone else sell a complete kit? (ie. rack mounts, tie rod adapters, pre-formed high pressure lines, etc.)

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #283, 06-26-2008 12:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Ralphy Boy:

Any updates on this Rick? The time has come for my very own 4.9 '88 GT with power steering. Do you or anyone else sell a complete kit? (ie. rack mounts, tie rod adapters, pre-formed high pressure lines, etc.)

No up date. The pump is mounted on the 4.9 and the belt routed. But that is as far as I got. I have to many irons in the fire. I keep saying I wont touch the 5.3 till the 4.9 is done but I keep getting caught up in the 5.3.



Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #284, 10-07-2008 04:40 AM
      BUMP! Keepin' this thread alive..

Bozzie (widerisbetter88@aol.com) MSG #285, 10-07-2008 05:54 PM
      Hey rick, Do you have any of the parts left for the conversion? I want to do this conversion also.

Thanks
Rick C.



Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #286, 12-20-2008 04:46 AM
      Bump!

Just ordered a Z51 rack for myself so I can do this. :-D


Bozzie (widerisbetter88@aol.com) MSG #287, 12-20-2008 09:13 AM
      Im in the process of a 3800 turbo swap and have my ps pump mounted / type 2 gm pump. Im doing my steering swap in a month or 2 when i do my engine swap. Keep this goin, maybe we can do a group buy for the adaptors !

Rick



Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #288, 12-20-2008 09:42 AM
      Nice work and I can understand the benefits of power steering if you are a senior citizen or when using wider wheels. However, with stock width wheels I feel that my Fiero steers and parks fine as is I believe that GM did not offer power steering as the front end of a Fiero is pretty light.
For those that want this option, WCF used to sell a complete PS kit but it is expensive, it adds weight and uses valuable horsepower. The Fiero based (long and heavy) Zimmer Quicksilver also used a PS setup and I believe that it was based on a Chevette rack. I guess that it just comes down to taste but it should also be remembered that a tenth of a second can make the critical difference between winning and losing a race. Power Steering will slow you down and you will lose that tenth!



sspeedstreet (sspeedstreet@verizon.net) MSG #289, 12-20-2008 12:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Nice work and I can understand the benefits of power steering if you are a senior citizen or when using wider wheels. However, with stock width wheels I feel that my Fiero steers and parks fine as is I believe that GM did not offer power steering as the front end of a Fiero is pretty light.



Dennis, see page 1, second post. You just don't get it. It's about ratio.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #290, 12-20-2008 12:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Nice work and I can understand the benefits of power steering if you are a senior citizen or when using wider wheels. However, with stock width wheels I feel that my Fiero steers and parks fine as is I believe that GM did not offer power steering as the front end of a Fiero is pretty light.
For those that want this option, WCF used to sell a complete PS kit but it is expensive, it adds weight and uses valuable horsepower. The Fiero based (long and heavy) Zimmer Quicksilver also used a PS setup and I believe that it was based on a Chevette rack. I guess that it just comes down to taste but it should also be remembered that a tenth of a second can make the critical difference between winning and losing a race. Power Steering will slow you down and you will lose that tenth!



The Zimmer was based on the XR4TI rack not the Chevette.

You only listed two of the benefits from power steering. The SOLE reason for power steering in my 88 Fiero GT's is for steering ratio. I went from 3.5 turns lock to lock down to 2.25 turns lock to lock. I still have a "stock" feel on the highway and can turn the wheel at walking speed with one hand.

I am not trying to talk anyone into power steering or out of power steering. Only telling it how and why I did it.

If you have not driven a Fiero with power steering, why would you make comments like this? Because I can tell you have not driven a Fiero with a faster ratio power steering rack, or you would have at least tried to make some sensible argument against it.

Why on earth would you say a car would loose .10 second with out even considering the engine? What car would loose a .10, a stock 2.5 duke? stock 2.8 V6? or 400hp V8? do you really think they will all loose a tenth?

The hydro pump uses VERRY little power in a straight line anyway. So drag racing will see practically no difference with or without power steering. Fast ratio power steering is best suited for road coarse driving were very tight turns are common.

If you have questions please ask, but don't tell me that power steering adversely affected my car. I have had it for several years and also had non-power steering Fiero's for years. I know what I like and don't like about the systems I built. You don't, you only talk mumbo jumbo about a system you have not even tried.

BTW I am working on a third type of power steering system for the Fiero because In my experianced opinion, fast ratio power steering in a Fiero is well worth the work.



Gandalf MSG #291, 05-08-2009 08:50 AM
      bump!

MountainHiBlue87GT MSG #292, 05-08-2009 07:49 PM
      RicK:

I agree with all you have said about power steering on aFiero. I have WCF's PS kit on my 3800 Series III car (same rack as yours) and it is great in every respect.

Regards,

David


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #293, 10-27-2009 01:43 PM
      anti archive bump

FierOmar (davidcordier@sbcglobal.net) MSG #294, 10-27-2009 08:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bozzie:
Hey rick, Do you have any of the parts left for the conversion? I want to do this conversion also.

Thanks
Rick C.


X2



rjblaze (rjblaze@verizon.net) MSG #295, 10-28-2009 12:36 PM
      Please keep us in the loop about this new system you are trying......great work going on here! Thanks! I know there was another set up using a Dakota rack, but I can't seem to find the thread.

billpapps MSG #296, 10-28-2009 07:37 PM
      http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/090909.html

I have used the same rack on corvairs.
Be really sweet to be able to use this on a Fiero..

The Dakota R/T has 2 1/2 LTL

[This message has been edited by billpapps (edited 10-28-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #297, 10-29-2009 11:14 AM
      No updates. But IF people want adaptors I can try to work on it?
The problem I here most is that the racks are hard to find and the price is high when they find them?
I am going to have some more F body adaptors made up because I have a car here that I am working on. He wants the F body rack in it.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #298, 10-29-2009 02:04 PM
      I would like to express interest in a set of F-body adapters.

Charlie



Fierostarvin MSG #299, 10-29-2009 03:30 PM
      me too

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #300, 10-29-2009 05:38 PM
      I ordered 3 sets of the F body adaptors, I don't have the time to make them myself. I need two for my self and the third was in case someone wanted a set. If more people want a set of the F body adaptors, let me know. I don't have a price yet, the machine shop was just going to bill me when they are done. I am thinking $75?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #301, 10-29-2009 06:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

I ordered 3 sets of the F body adapters, I don't have the time to make them myself. I need two for my self and the third was in case someone wanted a set. If more people want a set of the F body adapters, let me know. I don't have a price yet, the machine shop was just going to bill me when they are done. I am thinking $75?


Sounds good for a ballpark figure. When you know and want payment let me know how you would like to be paid.

Just to confirm, will the F-Body rack be any issue with my Archie front Battery mod?

Charlie



Fierostarvin MSG #302, 10-29-2009 07:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

I ordered 3 sets of the F body adaptors, I don't have the time to make them myself. I need two for my self and the third was in case someone wanted a set. If more people want a set of the F body adaptors, let me know. I don't have a price yet, the machine shop was just going to bill me when they are done. I am thinking $75?


Don't have one made special for me, it's going to be some time before I need them but if your starting a list for a batch I'd like to be on it.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #303, 10-29-2009 08:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


Sounds good for a ballpark figure. When you know and want payment let me know how you would like to be paid.

Just to confirm, will the F-Body rack be any issue with my Archie front Battery mod?

Charlie


I don't cary a spare and I do have a front mount Bat from WCF so I don't think it will be a problem. BUT, IF you want a spare the F body will NOT work for you. The Corvette was made for a spare.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #304, 10-29-2009 11:52 PM
      Ok, I guess I will have to opt out then. Don't want to mod the tub any more than I have. I take it the corvette rack requires adapters that are similar but a different size?

Charlie



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #305, 10-29-2009 11:56 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Ok, I guess I will have to opt out then. Don't want to mod the tub any more than I have. I take it the corvette rack requires adapters that are similar but a different size?

Charlie


The Vette adaptors and mounts are totally different than the F body.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #306, 10-29-2009 11:58 PM
      Ok thanks. I'll sit back and watch the fun! I still have finish my body work which is taking forever right now...

Charlie



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #307, 10-30-2009 12:01 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Ok thanks. I'll sit back and watch the fun! I still have finish my body work which is taking forever right now...

Charlie


Cool.



BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #308, 10-30-2009 12:21 AM
      PM sent

Bill Eaton (eatonwf@comcast.net) MSG #309, 11-14-2009 11:49 AM
      I have been reading this post thread for quite awhile, and finally I am getting ready to put this information to use. I am installing a 3800 Series II into an '88 chassis for my kit car and I will be using larger than normal wheels and tires - so power steering will make it much better. I know I may be too late, however I will ask anyway. I should say that if I have understood what I have read, the following is stated in my words to be sure I am on the right track.
If I understand correctly there are basically 2 options, Option 1 - the 84-94 Vette (C-4 Rack) with the number 224HD associated with it. Option 2 - an F body rack - LS1 from a V-8 car. Which would be the best selection? In this application I am not as concerned with Lock to Lock as I am with obtaining Power Steering (because of the big wheels and tires).

Also, depending upon which of the two options above that you recommend, may I purchase adapters and rack mount from you?
If so what will be the cost to purchase and for shipping to the NorthWest?
What address do I use to mail a check or do you prefer PayPal?

I very much have enjoyed your work and presentation of this information for all of us. Thank you.



mcaanda (mcaanda@gmail.com) MSG #310, 11-14-2009 12:09 PM
      Hey Bill, good to see that you made it to PFF. I remember when you were out at the house a while back when I was in the area downloading stuff before the move.

Too bad that I have moved from the Pacific NW tho and am now out in the Midwest.

TBH, I'd go w/ the rack from the F-bodies as the steering ratio ( IMO ) for the Vette is too fast on the 88's. I know when Rick installed the F-Body rack into my 88GT, it was like night and day. Not twitchy, but much faster than stock.

At highway speeds w/ the faster rack speed of the Vette, one wonders if you would need to let go of the wheel if ya sneeze or end up in the bushes like I did when I first got into my 88 w/ the new rack installed. It really was something else that I didnt expect at all. I personally prefer the F-body, its a balance of speed and assist, any faster and I think that I'd have had 2nd thoughts about it.

PS haters or not I will admit like you, w/ the larger tires in it, it does help alot - but the main reason is really the lock to lock ratio.

Welcome!

--Allen



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #311, 11-14-2009 01:34 PM
      Just curious, did I not read correctly that there are two corvette ratio's but the same size rack? One ratio faster than the F-Body and one slower (but still better than the Fiero rack ratio) ? If this is true then I personally would be leaning towards the slower ratio for my application unless those that have used the F-Body rack think it is already on the slow side...

Charlie



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #312, 11-14-2009 03:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Just curious, did I not read correctly that there are two corvette ratio's but the same size rack? One ratio faster than the F-Body and one slower (but still better than the Fiero rack ratio) ? If this is true then I personally would be leaning towards the slower ratio for my application unless those that have used the F-Body rack think it is already on the slow side...

Charlie


Yes there are more than one Vette ratio. The ultra fast ratio is much harder to find at only two turns lock to lock. That is only one turn from center, so don't worry to much about it. Chances are it is the "slower" of the two which is about the same as the F body. The problem would be if you were looking for the fast rack specifically.




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #313, 11-14-2009 05:09 PM
      Thank you for explaining that Rick. If I ever get this thing rolling I will eventually need to replace all the front end bushings. At that time I will see if my finances are going to allow me to install the regular corvette rack. The mount I am pretty sure I can make and with the info you have provided here (thank you!) I hope to be able to get some adapters fabbed up.

Charlie



AkursedX (akursedx@aol.com) MSG #314, 01-18-2010 06:19 PM
      Do you have any of these F-body brackets still available?



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #315, 01-19-2010 02:00 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by AkursedX:

Do you have any of these F-body brackets still available?



I have 6 on order from the machine shop. I don't have time to do them myself.
BUT he is VERY SLOW and I cant tack money for them till I have them in my hand.



IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #316, 01-19-2010 04:19 AM
      dose this "firm up" the steering at all? my steering in front seems very flimsy or is it just time for a new rack and steering components?

dobey MSG #317, 01-19-2010 10:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by IVANNATINKLE:

dose this "firm up" the steering at all? my steering in front seems very flimsy or is it just time for a new rack and steering components?


Probably need an alignment, and/or some suspension pieces? I recently had a lot of suspension equipment installed on my car, and had an all around alignment done, and it felt much better after. The new tires helped too.


AkursedX (akursedx@aol.com) MSG #318, 01-19-2010 11:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


I have 6 on order from the machine shop. I don't have time to do them myself.
BUT he is VERY SLOW and I cant tack money for them till I have them in my hand.


Thanks for letting me know. If possible, could you keep me in mind for a set when you get them? I don't know if I'm going to get around to power steering this year, but if I do, I think this is the way for me to go, and I would like to have these parts as soon as they are available simply so I don't have to hunt for them at a later date.


IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #319, 01-20-2010 03:26 AM
      could you still do this with a front mount battery?

BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #320, 01-20-2010 03:52 AM
      PM sent

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #321, 01-20-2010 11:40 AM
      With the people that have already PM'd me I don't have any left.
Maybe I need to look into the CNC shop to make 12+ sets.
IF I do this the price will double because the CNC parts are MUCH more expensive in such small volume. They usually ask for 100"s of pieces. But the price drops as the number of parts increase. I don't expect the adapters to be any cheaper than $100 a set. I would order a minimum of 12. That is $1,200 + tax that I would have to pay out of pocket.
So you can see why I get my parts done at a manual shop.
Last time I did the adapters at the CNC shop I collected the money first, that would pay for the parts then ordered. They took longer than I thought and I almost sent money back to people.

I do have my own CNC lathe and could make the parts myself but time is VERY limited for me and the parts are a two setup operation each. They are also different left and right. So I would basically have to babysit the entire operation after I right the 4 programs required to make the parts.
I also need to make setup fixtures to hold the threaded parts.



Daviero MSG #322, 05-31-2010 08:06 PM
      Some more info on identifying the right rack you need:

the 2 turns ratio rack for 84/85 has either AJ, AK, or YP embossed on the lower cap of the input pinion shaft

the 2 turns ratio rack for 86 and 87 had WT embossed on the lower cap of the input pinion shaft

the same for the 2.5 turns ratio racks in 84/85 are YM for 1 rack or CA or WL for the other rack. The difference between them I do not know, but they had different part numbers. For 86/87 the 2.5 turns rack had CA or WL embossed on the pinion cap.

I found this out while looking to replace my rack. I cheaped out and installed a good looking used rack. It was the correct one for Rick's adaptors but the year for it was unknown. A couple years later I am replacing it to correct a persistent slow leak - moral of the story: Do not cheap out! Get a rebuilt rack if you get a scrounged one.

Edit: the rack I used was the WT rack: 2 turns for 86/87. I really like it and replaced my leaky one with the same.


dobey MSG #323, 05-26-2011 06:45 PM
      Just came across this thread again. Why is it not in the Construction Zone yet?

Cliff Pennock (admin@fieroforum.com) MSG #324, 06-03-2011 04:28 PM
      It is now.


sspeedstreet (sspeedstreet@verizon.net) MSG #325, 06-27-2011 01:12 PM
      I'm finally getting back to my PS install. I need to get new bellows for my Corvette R + P. The stock '88 Fiero will fits on one side, but the side with Rick's extension needs a 3" - 4" longer boot.

What did you guys use?

~Neil


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #326, 07-05-2011 03:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sspeedstreet:

I'm finally getting back to my PS install. I need to get new bellows for my Corvette R + P. The stock '88 Fiero will fits on one side, but the side with Rick's extension needs a 3" - 4" longer boot.

What did you guys use?

~Neil


The boot is one thing that needs to be changed or adapted. So I have come up with an idea that shoud deal with this issue in a more simple way. I happend to have an aftermarket shock boot for a Rancho shock. This boot looks like it could easily be adapted to the rack. The big end of the boot could be clamped on the rack and the small end may be adapted to the tie rod. It depends on the boot you find. I will see if I can dig out some of the stuff for pictures.



2002z28ssconv MSG #327, 01-16-2012 09:18 AM
      I'd love to have a set of adapters and mounting bracket for my ZR1 rack. So if anybody has some they didn't use, let me know.

Also, I skimmed through the thread but didn't see if Rickady88GT was willing to release his dimensions or not. If I can't buy a set I'll have to get one made.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #328, 02-09-2012 10:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 2002z28ssconv:

I'd love to have a set of adapters and mounting bracket for my ZR1 rack. So if anybody has some they didn't use, let me know.

Also, I skimmed through the thread but didn't see if Rickady88GT was willing to release his dimensions or not. If I can't buy a set I'll have to get one made.


I may have one set left? I was holding on to it just in case I needed them. The problem is not the adapters, it is the rack mounts. They take me to much time to make them to sell. So I only made the mounts for the adapters that were pre orderd.

I should have two sets of adapters (no mounts), one done in steel and one in moly.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 02-10-2012).]

Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #329, 04-18-2012 01:04 PM
      I'm also interested in a set of adapters, or at least the dimensions so I can make my own.

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #330, 04-18-2012 04:01 PM
      Rick, let me know if this project is still active. If you have CAD files, I have access to a CNC machine.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #331, 04-23-2012 11:26 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

Rick, let me know if this project is still active. If you have CAD files, I have access to a CNC machine.


I never had the files. The machine shop wrote the program and told me that they would keep it. All I needed to do was order more adaptors and had them the money. The problem is the cost of ordering few parts. They are VERY exensive from this shop. I had to order a lot of them to bring the price down enough to meke them worth it.
THEN, the other problem is the mount. I dont want to make them. They are a lot of work for me to do with the simple tools I have. And the shop would have charged a crazy amount of money for them.



Bozzie (widerisbetter88@aol.com) MSG #332, 04-24-2012 11:54 AM
      So......lets get a group buy going...im IN !



Will-Martin MSG #333, 04-25-2012 11:26 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bozzie:

So......lets get a group buy going...im IN !



I would be in for this.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #334, 04-25-2012 12:15 PM
      I still get requests for the F body and Corvette adaptors. If there is a way to get a waterjet and a CNC lathe to spit this stuff out, I could try to get something going. BUT before I stir up false hope of "kits" being made I need to do some more planing and price checking. I would need to make mounts to send to the shop or write the programs for the mounts and adaptors.

Big.E.In.Crooked.I MSG #335, 06-22-2012 06:48 AM
      Ok....so the power steering works great... what pump for 2.8 and where would it be mounted to keep the a/c?

mptighe MSG #336, 06-27-2012 04:34 PM
      Might be interested in doing a PS setup for my car. Any idea on how it would have to be mounted for a manual 3800?

FIERO75 (joerg.bode@snet.net) MSG #337, 08-01-2012 01:07 PM
      If RICKADY88GT will be taking orders for the Corvette adapters I would like to be on the list to get a set. Plan is to do the conversion in the fall-winter months. Please let me know if this is a possibility. Thanks Jay

Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #338, 08-02-2012 01:07 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
It looks like the Cady STS rack has longer dust boots, so if you want to replace the dust boots during the swap you may want to look into replacing the Fiero boots with the newer Cady boots. They also have the vent cross over pipe that will help boot life too. You just need to make your own custom pipe to connect the two boots.


FYI the Corvette rack (mine at least) is gun-drilled all the way through, so an external crossover pipe is not necessary.


Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #339, 08-07-2012 07:48 PM
      Did anyone else have to reclock the pinion on their rack? I have one of the "short" racks and the steering wheel is off by about 120 deg. The rack has been rebuilt, so I don't know if the rebuilder clocked the pinion incorrectly, or if the rack is just different than others.
I reclocked my steering wheel but now the turn signal cancelling mechanism doesn't work properly, so I have to put the wheel back and reclock the pinion instead. It looks pretty straightforward: http://www.vetteweb.com/tec...n_rebuild/index.html

To answer an old question...

 
quote
Originally posted by Fastback 86:

Possible dumb question, but can a power steering rack be used without the power part? Could someone who just wants a better ratio do this and cap off the hydraulic inputs and outputs on the rack and use it as a manual rack, or does the fluid also lubricate the PS rack or something?


I've been driving with my rack depowered -- it's empty of fluid, and I capped off the ports. It's drivable but barely. The steering effort is pretty tough. I'll be hooking up the lines sometime next week. Note that I also have a smaller diameter steering wheel than stock. It was pretty hard to turn even with the stock rack.

With the ports looped instead of capped (so there's no air pressure buildup), and the hydraulic cylinder seals and piston removed, the effort should be noticeably reduced. I don't know if it would be reasonable with my 2-turns rack, but with a slower rack I bet it would drive just fine. That should make this conversion a lot more enticing to the power-steering haters out there.

Here's how the Miata folks depower their racks: http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/depower.php

[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 08-07-2012).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #340, 08-10-2012 05:24 AM
      I'd love a faster ratio (less turns lock-to-lock) rack but I have an '86. Any chance such a project will ever be done for pre '88's?


Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #341, 08-14-2012 03:27 PM
      There are kits available for pre-88s from WCF and other vendors. Rick may have done one with the F-body rack on pre-88s as well.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #342, 08-17-2012 02:47 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by IVANNATINKLE:

could you still do this with a front mount battery?


Yes



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #343, 08-17-2012 03:02 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:

Did anyone else have to reclock the pinion on their rack?



I have done a few racks on 88's and I dont remember a reclocking issue? I cut a new "key" into the lock ring and all was well.
On My LS4 with the 06 Monte Carlo columb, the same mod did not do as well. I have the same issue you have. But I dont care to much about it.



Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #344, 08-19-2012 04:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:
There are kits available for pre-88s from WCF and other vendors. Rick may have done one with the F-body rack on pre-88s as well.


Who does it other than WCF? After seeing posts like Bmwguru pop up, I'm not sure I want to order from there anymore. - I hope that's temporary, I like Chris, and his built quality is fairly good, but I haven't interacted with him in a few years, and it's been even longer since I've held any of his products.


Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #345, 08-26-2012 03:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
I have done a few racks on 88's and I dont remember a reclocking issue? I cut a new "key" into the lock ring and all was well.
On My LS4 with the 06 Monte Carlo columb, the same mod did not do as well. I have the same issue you have. But I dont care to much about it.


What do you mean by cutting a new key into the lock ring? I'm not sure which lock ring you're referring to.


Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #346, 09-09-2012 08:50 PM
      There's wayyyyyy too much boost with the W-body (Lumina Z34) pump. There is almost no steering feel and it's way too easy to turn the wheel, even when stopped. I'm going to see about reducing the flow with a smaller restrictor hole in the pressure relief valve.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #347, 09-14-2012 12:01 AM
      You may look into the pressure spring?
It works like a oil pressure relife valve. More spring more presure.
The pumps I have used so far have never made to much "boost".


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #348, 09-14-2012 12:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:


What do you mean by cutting a new key into the lock ring? I'm not sure which lock ring you're referring to.


The "disk" behind the steering wheel that the the lock pin ingages. It has a missing tooth that makes it go on in one way. I cut out a tooth that let it "clock" the steering wheel where I wanted it.



FlyFieroGT MSG #349, 09-20-2012 11:29 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sspeedstreet:

You know I'm in for a set, Rick.

Neil




FlyFieroGT MSG #350, 09-21-2012 10:05 AM
     

Fat fingered.




Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #351, 09-24-2012 01:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

You may look into the pressure spring?
It works like a oil pressure relife valve. More spring more presure.
The pumps I have used so far have never made to much "boost".


It's my understanding that the spring just controls the bypass pressure, which really only matters when the fluid is very cold or the steering rack hits one end of its travel. The amount of fluid flow determines the steering assist by how fast it fills the cylinder in the rack.

I found a shop in the San Fernando valley that can rework the spool gear in the rack to change the assist. Alternatively, restricting the flow from the pump will work as long as there's still enough maximum flow to accommodate rapid change in steering angle.


FieroWannaBe (patond@alumni.msoe.edu) MSG #352, 09-24-2012 01:58 PM
      Power (HP) = Flow (GPM) X Pressure (PSI) / 1714 (the basic hermaphroditic approximation of fluid power.)
The simple fact is for less power you can lower either of the two inputs, lowering the pressure will lower the gain in the cylinder, lowering the flow will slow the fill time of the cylinders. Either the system pushes less or the driver pumps more. I think it may be wiser to have a stiffer torsion bar installed in the rack with reduced flow to the rack, combined with a lower system pressure. (A weak torsion bar with heavier input shaft torque sound to me like a recipe for failure.)


Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #353, 09-25-2012 01:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroWannaBe:

Power (HP) = Flow (GPM) X Pressure (PSI) / 1714 (the basic hermaphroditic approximation of fluid power.)
The simple fact is for less power you can lower either of the two inputs, lowering the pressure will lower the gain in the cylinder, lowering the flow will slow the fill time of the cylinders. Either the system pushes less or the driver pumps more.


That's a bit of an oversimplification in the case of power steering since there's a flow metering valve (the spool valve/torsion bar assembly) in the system, but reducing the pressure should reduce the flow gain and cause no other problems as long as the spool valve can source enough flow from the pump. So I can reduce the pressure to reduce the flow gain, as long as the bypass pressure isn't so low that the pump no longer flows enough fluid to the spool valve.

 
quote
I think it may be wiser to have a stiffer torsion bar installed in the rack with reduced flow to the rack, combined with a lower system pressure. (A weak torsion bar with heavier input shaft torque sound to me like a recipe for failure.)


Good point. I imagine the torsion bar was designed to hold up to being torqued hard with the rack limited out (or the wheels stuck), so it probably isn't a failure point, but that's certainly a consideration.

[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 09-25-2012).]

FieroWannaBe (patond@alumni.msoe.edu) MSG #354, 09-25-2012 03:54 PM
      The pump has a fixed displacement and operates at a extremely large rpm range at system pressure and flow under almost all conditions, a lower pressure should not greatly affect flow rate. Remember we are dealing with a largely immeasurable compressible fluid.

Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #355, 05-29-2014 05:56 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroWannaBe:
A weak torsion bar with heavier input shaft torque sound to me like a recipe for failure.


Looks like you are right.

From: http://spece30.com/forum/10...ering-pinion-failure
 
quote




Obviously this is the most extreme case (track car with a completely depowered power steering rack) but still relevant.

[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 05-29-2014).]

motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #356, 06-10-2014 11:50 AM
      Rick, I sent you a pm a while ago asking about the rack adapters, did you get it???

Joe


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #357, 06-18-2014 01:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:


Obviously this is the most extreme case (track car with a completely depowered power steering rack) but still relevant.



Is that the steering spool assembly from the Vette?
And no hydro pump?


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #358, 06-18-2014 01:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:

Rick, I sent you a pm a while ago asking about the rack adapters, did you get it???

Joe


Sorry, I have to look into it? Can you re-send it?


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #359, 06-19-2014 05:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


Sorry, I have to look into it? Can you re-send it?


message sent.

Joe


Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #360, 09-11-2014 06:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

Is that the steering spool assembly from the Vette?
And no hydro pump?


BMW E30 with no hydro pump


msweldon (marc.weldon@mindspring.com) MSG #361, 11-12-2018 11:19 AM
      Not to necro-thread and may create my own if necessary... but I've recreated the Corvette ZR1/Sport/NS steering adapters in CAD and am looking for online quotes for running a batch.

If anyone is interested in participating in the obtaining these adapters let me know.

I'm currently creating quotes through emachineshop.com, finegrainmetal.com, and RapidMachining.com. If anyone knows of any reputable online or local machine shops around them to engage with that are friendly to automotive hobbyists, please let me know.

Also have instructions on how to create the steering rack bracket from a single piece of 3"x3"x1/4" square steel tube. It's a little overkill but keeps the complexity of the bracket to a minimum...

thanks!


Steering rack bracket
Contour gauge and angle finder on crossmember

Bracket cut and ground out of 3" square tube

[This message has been edited by msweldon (edited 11-12-2018).]