Designing a new dash need a few ideas
Topic started by: OH10fiero, Date: 11-01-2002 11:37 AM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000119.html


OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #1, 11-01-2002 11:37 AM
      Hello everyone. One of the biggest complaints that I have heard on the Forum is that the Fiero dash is just too out of date for the car. So when I told a friend of mine that I was going to cut up an old worn out dash and redesign it, they said they were interested in possibly offering it to the forum for sale. Now what I need to know is what would YOU change on the dash, how would you like it to look? I would like your input in a few areas such as Gauge location as well as options. Ex. would you like to use the stock gaugues or aftermarket. Speaker options, glove box, so on and so forth. Please do not get too specific, remember we would like to design something that everyone would like to have in thier car. Thanks in advance.

Songman MSG #2, 11-01-2002 11:50 AM
      The only thing I plan to keep with my custom dash is the stock mounting locations. Everything else has to go!



TBK MSG #3, 11-01-2002 11:57 AM
      If you did one like this, I would buy it.



DRA (fierorulz@yahoo.com) MSG #4, 11-01-2002 11:59 AM
      Let the buyer choose gauge options, in other words don't precut for any specific gauges. I kind of like the center pod to be slightly angled toward the driver position. I've seen a couple of nice ones already available, are you thinking you can undercut their pricing? Seems like a cluttered market already. Have you considered any current production dashes that may be modified to fit our cars. I was thinking of taking some measurements and comparing to dashes in other cars.
Good luck, and have fun with it!


Automoda MSG #5, 11-01-2002 01:32 PM
      Does anyone have any idea just what it would cost to cover that Pirana dash? You'd be into that dash more than a SC3800

Pyrthian (pyrthian@yahoo.com) MSG #6, 11-01-2002 01:35 PM
      how about 6x9 speaker housings?

DarkRain (bauert@telus.net) MSG #7, 11-01-2002 03:26 PM
      Round speakers!!!!!!! Not oval, they sound bad!

DaRkLoRD (chaosproject@gmail.com) MSG #8, 11-01-2002 04:16 PM
      I love the Piranha interior.. but I think it's a bit TOO modern looking for a stock Fiero.. it'd be great in a Finale/Fino or the Piranha if they're ever produced.

my personal choice for a new dash design, is the 300ZX dash... mmm.



FIERORICE MSG #9, 11-01-2002 05:26 PM
      Rounded like the Piranha, nothing precut, driver based, and more 3000GT/Viper than Firebird.

Ricky

OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #10, 11-01-2002 06:30 PM
      Thanks for the responces guys, keep em coming, any and all info will be concidered. Also does anyone have any more shots on the Pihrana interior, need more angles on that one as well as some close ups.

Fino MSG #11, 11-01-2002 06:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DaRkLoRD:
I love the Piranha interior.. but I think it's a bit TOO modern looking for a stock Fiero.. it'd be great in a Finale/Fino or the Piranha if they're ever produced.

I agree with DaRkLoRD. But I think it would look good in a Fiero that has minor body modifications.

I would love to have had that interior in my Fino.

Fino



TBK MSG #12, 11-01-2002 07:36 PM
      Here are some links to more pics. If you made this dash, as I already have said, I would certainly buy it without batting an eye.

I think it would go GREAT on ANY fiero!

http://www.fiero.nl/uploads/imgs2003/Piranha_Sill_And_Door.JPG

http://www.fiero.nl/uploads/imgs2003/Piranha_Center_Console_And_Dash.JPG

http://www.fiero.nl/uploads/imgs2003/Piranha_Seats.jpg

http://www.fiero.nl/uploads/imgs2003/Piranha_LR3Qtr_View.JPG



Riceburner98 (riceburner98@gmail.com) MSG #13, 11-01-2002 08:37 PM
      Funny someone should mention 3000GT.. My plan is to install a 3000GT dash in my Fiero. I hope.. Took some measurements the other day, I hope it will fit! At least some of it. My personal favorite: Make a close copy of a Ferrari F550 dash, and I'd buy it in a second! I want to build one of those dashes... *After* I get the engine in.... lol



OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #14, 11-01-2002 09:43 PM
      Ok so it seems you guys like the Pirahna interior, but keep in mind I probly could not copy it because of copy right issues, but does not mean I cannot borrow a few ideas from it. Also what about speakers, first person to suggest stock 4x10 gets petitioned to get banned, what woulld the majority like

drummer5 (drummer5@twcny.rr.com) MSG #15, 11-01-2002 09:44 PM
      I like the sweeping lines of the new viper dash. Also it would be cool if you could get something like a toyota supra dash, those are pretty sweet the way they like curve around the driver.

sqoach (fiero_adam@yahoo.com) MSG #16, 11-01-2002 10:01 PM
      Ok, here's some ideas from me

Lose the vents that stick out by the doors. Everyone seems to kick that when they get out. Plus they look kind of stupid sticking out that far. I think one problem with the stock dash is that it is too far away from the occupants. The vents stick out, the gauge pod sticks out, and if there was a real glovebox, it would stick out (just like the aftermarket one). There's plenty of room to put a glovebox. Make the dash stick out a little further as a whole, but integrate(sp?) the gauges, vents, and glovebox into it, so they don't stick out as far. Get what I'm saying?
Speaker size, definately go with 5.25 inch speakers. They're not too big, not too small. I don't think 6x9s are a good choice. For one, they'll take up too much area of the dash, plus mounting depths on them are around 3" on most models.
One more thing. The stereo needs to be higher in the dash. It's bad enough with a manual, but the guys with automatics can't do much when they're in park. The shifter's in the way.

That's all my ideas...for now



the need for speed (dewalker3@attbi.com) MSG #17, 11-01-2002 10:07 PM
      the 300zx dash!!!!!!!!! A couple of people I thought were trying the z dash, but i think they made the instrument pod pretty damb ugle..screw those russians copy the piranha but then add a digital clock or something that would make it different.I dont know how patents work,or even if they have one or care since they dont want to make there dash!

perkidelic (tp@toddshotrods.com) MSG #18, 11-02-2002 12:29 AM
      Funny not many people have heard about this company. Just Dashes can cover any dash with factory type vinyl. They use heat and vacuum to the vinyl to the dash. They specialize in restos, but I once asked them about doing custom dashes and they said they could. I think he said usually $500-1000 (ballpark figures).

perk

 
quote
Originally posted by Automoda:
Does anyone have any idea just what it would cost to cover that Pirana dash? You'd be into that dash more than a SC3800



drummer5 (drummer5@twcny.rr.com) MSG #19, 11-02-2002 12:58 AM
      I was wondering if anyone here had or knew where I could find a measured diagram of a fiero interior so I could design one.

Thanx.

littled047 (littled@whoever.com) MSG #20, 11-02-2002 01:47 AM
      im really glad that someone is willing to take everyone's opinion and see what they can come up with.
one thing i really love are the pirahna door panels! if anything, do something like that with the door panels please! Everything else, just make it look modern... i like the idea of bringing the dash out and integrating all the gauges and things.and also i like 6in. speakers. maybe you could do something with door speakers. and i would also say going with an aftermarket gauge cluster. the last thing, and i know everyone wants this... CUP HOLDERS!!!! but find a good spot for them, not just in the middle of the center counsoul. i dont know, work magic...

-86' 4cyl. SE coupe
-86' V6 GT 2.8


Starter (mlukso@msn.com) MSG #21, 11-02-2002 01:56 AM
      i think the pirrana dash looks great, but you might also be able to sell modified 90's F-body dashes. they look good to, and they aren't too overly elequent. i'd also suggest looking into doing the door panels to match if you can.

Philphine (philphine@live.com) MSG #22, 11-02-2002 08:04 AM
      something simpler to do that i'd like is a redesigned guage pod instead of trying to change the whole dash. say instead of being rectangular, it was round on top instead, like following the line of the top of the steering wheel. hopefully something big enough that one or two 3 3/8" speedo/tach gages (i think that's the size they are) or maybe even one 5" guage to sit higher so other guages could be added below.

think in terms of tina's reworked guage cluster to get what i mean.

or simper even, one of those trim ring looking things that fits around the guage pod and has locations for a couple of extra guages.

on the other end of the spectrum, say a whole new dash with "antenne" lined up with the a pillars that could hold guages or maybe tweeters for a stereo. say it had three locations on each side or maybe like one more on the drivers side than the passengers. if you just like guages (i do) you could have engine monitoring guages on one side and maybe like a clock and/or inside-outside temp guage on the passenger side. or fill all the spots with tweeters as part of a massive stereo system.



JMunilla87GT (jmunilla@nc.rr.com) MSG #23, 11-02-2002 08:21 AM
      yea the late 90s FBody dashes are sweet. I think they are almost a drop in for the Fiero. The only thing that would need to be reworked would be the door panels. Something like that would make it easier to find aftermarket parts support.



dennis_6 MSG #24, 11-02-2002 08:36 AM
      My favourite would be the Piranha interior. It would need to be close to a carbon copy though. Next favorite would be a 4th gen Trans Am or 5th gen corvette interior. I don't want just a dash as the rest of the fiero's interior is garbage. It would need to be like V8 archies dash in layout.

OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #25, 11-02-2002 09:58 AM
      Thanks for the info guys, this will help give me the starting point that I will need. I will be going down to Florida to pick up Cozmos Targa in the next week and a half, we will be using a lot of this input, and put it down on paper with some rough scetch ideas. I will post any new results here as they develop, and to get any feed back, keep the ideas comming.

Quad GT (quadgti@gmail.com ) MSG #26, 11-02-2002 02:15 PM
      Screw the Russian dash......design something like the 300 ZX..that is one sweet dash....

getting back to the Trans Am dash....it will fit almost perfectly....but the doors will need to be redone also..I was wondering how close are the Trans Am door skins to the Fieros?

And does anybody have any finished Archied dash pictures



GTFiero1 (fierogt5speed@aol.com) MSG #27, 11-02-2002 08:25 PM
      what ever you do, make it affordable. Personally i wouldnt mind a nice overlay. One ive seen which no one sells was one that layed over the fiero dash that made it look like its all one piece (not a seperate guage pod) with a glove compartment and filled in the space betwwen the drivers side A/C vent and the guage pod and the space between the guage pod on the center consol thing that has the ac and stero controls. I bet nobody has any idea about what im saying



OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #28, 11-02-2002 09:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Quad GT:

getting back to the Trans Am dash....it will fit almost perfectly....but the doors will need to be redone also..I was wondering how close are the Trans Am door skins to the Fieros?

And does anybody have any finished Archied dash pictures

does anyone have any pics of both the dashes he is talking about? any pics would help as well as ideas, funny no one has really mentioned sound system. keeeeeeeeeeep em comming guys.

Quad GT (quadgti@gmail.com ) MSG #29, 11-02-2002 09:14 PM
      Hahaha GTFiero1 you lost meeeee lol.
Just kidding dudeeee, I couldnt agree more with you.
The cost is very important, the cheaper it is the more units will be sold!!!!



gt boy (shlumpy2000@yahoo.ca) MSG #30, 11-02-2002 09:56 PM
      ..as long as it has somewhere to stick my slurpee...i'm in!

oh ya...angle the center console towards the driver.

drummer5 (drummer5@twcny.rr.com) MSG #31, 11-02-2002 09:59 PM
      Later tonight I'll scetch up some ideas I have and see what u guys think.

btw SIG TEST!



Joe Torma (animatedjoe75@yahoo.com) MSG #32, 11-03-2002 02:23 AM
      great sig!!!

Dashes take forever to design & make from scratch...I know.

jscott1 MSG #33, 11-03-2002 02:55 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Quad GT:
Screw the Russian dash......design something like the 300 ZX..that is one sweet dash....

getting back to the Trans Am dash....it will fit almost perfectly....but the doors will need to be redone also..I was wondering how close are the Trans Am door skins to the Fieros?

And does anybody have any finished Archied dash pictures

Trans Am door skins are real close to Fiero skins



Quad GT (quadgti@gmail.com ) MSG #34, 11-03-2002 03:17 AM
      Well will you looksy at that!!!!!
Now what would one have to do to make the skin a little bit longer?



jscott1 MSG #35, 11-03-2002 03:29 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Quad GT:
Well will you looksy at that!!!!!
Now what would one have to do to make the skin a little bit longer?

Why would you want it longer? It's already about a foot longer than the Fiero Door panel


OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #36, 11-03-2002 12:02 PM
      Does anyone have a Firebird dash in the Youngstown area? I think that it would be more cost effective to make a kit that would allow you to adapt that dash to the Fiero since the dash has already had a production run, let me know what you think. Remember that if a dash is created from scratch that the cost will be the same as all the others, in the $800-$2500 range depending what all in included in the kit, such as being finished, or including iterrior door panals.
If you have this dash and can sell it to me, or know of a source that I can get one from, please let me know.


Quad GT (quadgti@gmail.com ) MSG #37, 11-03-2002 12:11 PM
      OOpps I must of had one too many beers when I wrote that lol. It did seem a bit too long in the other picture.

But if the dash from the Trans Am is used it would make more sence to use the door panels as well and it would be wayyy cheaper.

If any body is interested there is a salvage yard here in Toronto which just sells Camero and Trans Am parts.....Paradise Alley..I"ll try and get the ### if any body want it.



FIERORICE MSG #38, 11-03-2002 12:31 PM
      Not at all trying to bad mouth the Fiero, but the point is, the dash is ugly and most owners don't have enough money for a whole new kit, have it covered and all new gauges/speakers.

I am starting to like the Firebird idea, its just that HORRID GM gray plastic on the HVAC/Radio.... ugh yuck. But dash layout is pretty good, ergonomically speaking...

I guess the best dash ideally would be very round and modern, price wise would be whats been made, and happy medium would be the T/A.

Go for it!!! My vote is in, retrofit Firebird interiors to Fieros!

Ricky

jscott1 MSG #39, 11-03-2002 02:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by OH10fiero:
Does anyone have a Firebird dash in the Youngstown area? I think that it would be more cost effective to make a kit that would allow you to adapt that dash to the Fiero since the dash has already had a production run, let me know what you think. .

A Firebird dash and door panels could be retrofitted to the Fiero for less than half of what competing kits are going for. The reason is obvious, there are tons of 4th gen firebirds in the bone yard. If you get the parts for cheap, and can do the retrofitting yourself it is a very cost effective way to get a modern interior.

Of course you can spend more to do the Firebird retrofit if you choose, (modern radio, new door speakers, updated hvac and headlight controls, etc) But the basic retrofit gives you the most bang for the buck.

An early look at my secret project revealed




GTFiero1 (fierogt5speed@aol.com) MSG #40, 11-03-2002 02:05 PM
      one thing that would need to be re-worked about the T/A and Camaro dash is the top dash pad. It is huge due to the gaping f-body windshield, i new dash pad would definatley need to be made. You have to pick up a used one to experiment with, you'll probably find more problems though, just because its the right width doesnt mean it fits. I like the dash a lot but you might wanna check one our with measurements and llok it over real closey before you cough up the $$$ for something that you may not be able to use



drummer5 (drummer5@twcny.rr.com) MSG #41, 11-03-2002 03:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Joe Torma:
great sig!!!

Dashes take forever to design & make from scratch...I know.

thanx for the compliment and I be expecting your donation any day now

I think I'll go and work on some scetches right now and see how they look.



watdge (watdge@mindspring.com) MSG #42, 11-03-2002 03:30 PM
      So how much are you saying that the F-body's dash is running? I was on for making my own dash, but the F-body's looks like it belongs there. Besides, I know folks who think that the fiero came out in 97 or so, so I think it would fit well....

Just my thoughts.



OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #43, 11-03-2002 07:49 PM
      The more I look at it the more I want to do a kit for the T/A Camero dash, could always do a complete dash from scratch later. now all I need is a dash to volunteer for the carnage it will endure for a custom refit into the Fiero, and then be turned in to research, to find out how to make a kit out of it for the general public. Still, I'm not gonna give up on the idea of a kit from scratch, give me your thoughts on the T/A dash idea everyone, would you guys like for me to try and design a kit to make these dashes fit into our cars??? please respond, all coments good or bad welcomed.

Sootah (sootah@hotmail.com) MSG #44, 11-04-2002 01:56 AM
      I say do the retrofit dash now, and then produce the custom one. Way easier to retro than create.

Songman MSG #45, 11-04-2002 04:05 PM
      If anyone is around Tucson, AZ, there is a Firebird dash on eBay with a starting bid of $20 and no reserve. He wants $180 to ship it which I think is outrageous... But if anyone is local, this could be a good one. It looks like it includes the vents and stuff too.. Even a steering wheel and column.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1871287538

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 11-04-2002).]

OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #46, 11-04-2002 05:16 PM
      well guys I got a dash, I will pick it up from the guy on thursday, right after that I need to go out of town for a week so I'm not sure when I will be able to give an update. I probly would not be able to put any real work into the dash untill after the new year though, I work retail .Before I foget, it is out of a 96 firebird with power windows and mirrors.

Songman MSG #47, 11-04-2002 05:39 PM
      Would you mind letting us in on what you had to give for it? Just for an idea of what to expect if I can find a car around here to get the dash out of...

OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #48, 11-04-2002 07:49 PM
      Got it for $125.00, that includes dash, gauge cluster, and both door pannels that had power windows and mirrors. But keep in mind that every junk yard will have different prices, I probly could have gotten a better price from Cophers in FL., since I will be there next week, but I decided to jump the gun and get the dash from a local junk yard.

perkidelic (tp@toddshotrods.com) MSG #49, 11-04-2002 08:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by OH10fiero:

Got it for $125.00, that includes dash, gauge cluster, and both door pannels that had power windows and mirrors. But keep in mind that every junk yard will have different prices, I probly could have gotten a better price from Cophers in FL., since I will be there next week, but I decided to jump the gun and get the dash from a local junk yard.


Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Now what are your plans for getting it in the car? I know you have to get started to know what's really involved, but looking at what you have in your grubby little paws what do you see

perk



Silver85GT (avianman@aol.com) MSG #50, 11-04-2002 10:22 PM
      Any Idea who makes this dash?

And another pic...

[This message has been edited by Silver85GT (edited 11-04-2002).]

Gary W (gary.wanamaker2@gmail.com) MSG #51, 11-04-2002 10:28 PM
      That looks like Pisa's wraparound dash. $1200, last time I checked.

OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #52, 11-05-2002 12:02 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by perkidelic:


Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Now what are your plans for getting it in the car? I know you have to get started to know what's really involved, but looking at what you have in your grubby little paws what do you see

perk


I do not have the dash right now, but from what I was able to see from the dash in the car, I would be able to make a "ring" so to speak, mount the dash on the "ring," and then install. When I get the dash in the next few days I will be able to see if that is a option, also that would be an easy way to make a kit for all to do, I will know by this weekend and will post before I go to Florida to pick up the Targa Fiero from my friend on the forum (he showed me the forum as a matter of fact ) Cozmo.


jscott1 MSG #53, 11-06-2002 10:05 PM
      No need to make a ring, just fabricate some brackets and bolt it up.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-08-2002).]

Starter (mlukso@msn.com) MSG #54, 11-07-2002 12:43 AM
      looks great JScott. document it as you go please. if it works out alright i'll probably do it down the road too.

jscott1 MSG #55, 11-07-2002 03:43 AM
      Thanks, I will start a separate thread at some point but Here are some teasers of what it will look like

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-08-2002).]

OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #56, 11-07-2002 10:01 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Thanks, I will start a separate thread at some point but Here are some teasers of what it will look like

jscott1, just use this thread, this way no one has to use two threads for any info on the same conversion. If you want to do your own thread, put a link on this this one, I plan on doing updates everyonce and a while, and would like for others to be able to use any info you might have that I could have missed with out haveing to do a search.

jscott1 MSG #57, 11-07-2002 12:06 PM
      No Problem, I'll post updates to this thread, but I may need some help keeping it active so it doesn't get buried so deep I can't find it.

Phase one of my project is the dash and the door panels. But also involved is a color change from beechwood to gray and black.

My goal for completion of phase one is by end of the calendar year.

Subject is an Red 88GT, (see sig I can't post pics from where I am now)



Smoooooth GT MSG #58, 11-07-2002 12:21 PM
      jscott....
Man, That look's like it belong's there!! Can you give us a few detail's of year of car it came ot of, etc.. Just give us a few detail's please!! How did it fit <side2side>?? Keep us posted!!

Smooth!!



jscott1 MSG #59, 11-07-2002 01:31 PM
      Hey Smooth, thanks for the good words.

Side to side the Firebird dash is about 2 inches wider than the Fiero Dash. But, (and this is a big but) the Firebird dash is designed to go underneath the A pillar trim and the Fiero dash stops before it gets to the A pillar trim.n

Once you factor that in the side to side fit is nearly perfect. The edge of the dash rests comfortably up against the edge of the interior.

Songman MSG #60, 11-07-2002 02:20 PM
      How much farther back into the car does the dash extend? How does it effect leg room? Shifter? etc...



jscott1 MSG #61, 11-07-2002 07:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Songman:

How much farther back into the car does the dash extend? How does it effect leg room? Shifter? etc...

The front face of the dash extends maybe 4 to 6 inches farther out into the passenger area than the stock Fiero. But that is typical for most modern cars. With the seat pushed back there should be ample leg room, since it doesn't affect the actual amount that you can outstretch your legs, only knee space.
But it's hard to know for sure because I haven't installed the seats yet. I'll keep you posted.

Jonathan (JScott1)

Wipe0ut (4.9fiero@gmail.com) MSG #62, 11-07-2002 08:17 PM
      Gah! Jscott1 your interior is the best I've seen yet. I love the gauges you used; what are they? Would you ever be willing to market your interior as a kit?

htexans1 (bd5av8r@yahoo.com) MSG #63, 11-07-2002 09:59 PM
      Hi
I am intrigued (no reference to Olds intended) by the Firebird dash idea. My question is can you use the Fiero wire harness or is the Firebird one needed?
S.WIlliams


jscott1 MSG #64, 11-08-2002 12:51 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Wipe0ut:

Gah! Jscott1 your interior is the best I've seen yet. I love the gauges you used; what are they? Would you ever be willing to market your interior as a kit?

My gauges are standard F-body gauges

I am building a custom harness to interface the three Fiero Gauge connectors to the single F-body connector. I will share the pin mapping when it's complete.

That's how this whole thing began. I started out to build a custom dash with F-body gauges and somewhere along the way I decided to do the whole F-body interior.

Then I found this

And discovered that it was nearly a perfect fit

So then I got these

And installed them

I'll get more pics of the dash after I complete the wiring for the gauges.

This is purely optional but I am also going to use the F-body radio, headlight and environmental controls.

Jonathan (JScott1)

<<Editied to repost images>>

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-08-2002).]

Scott-Wa (smcelhiney@comcast.net) MSG #65, 11-08-2002 01:44 AM
      Johnathon,

The door panels look awesome. Looks like you just trimmed off the front upper corner and sliced off the back to size. Is that really all you had to do? Have you actually got the door latches hooked up to the Fiero Hardware in stock location?

I just realised mine being manual windows probably won't work with the panels your using. Dang it...

Give a walkthru of how you went about fitting them and how your dealing with areas you had to cut off... Please :-)

jscott1 MSG #66, 11-08-2002 02:19 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Scott-Wa:

Jonathan,

The door panels look awesome. Looks like you just trimmed off the front upper corner and sliced off the back to size. Is that really all you had to do? Have you actually got the door latches hooked up to the Fiero Hardware in stock location?

I just realised mine being manual windows probably won't work with the panels your using. Dang it...

Give a walkthru of how you went about fitting them and how your dealing with areas you had to cut off... Please :-)

Trimming of the front corner and slicing the rear to size is the gist of it, but it's a tad more involved than that.

The Fiero door mechanism is in the wrong position to fit in the F-body panels. I removed the Fiero hardware and installed the F-body hardware in a new location, and shortened the linkage.

Also the old handle brackets need to be removed and the f-body panel trimed and new attach points drilled.

I did the driver's side first and referenced from that to do the passenger


I also had to get F-body window and door lock switches, and since the Fiero only has one set I had to make a new harness to get power to both the driver's and passenger's side. The stock harness was actually long enough to be relocated from the center to the driver's door.

Sounds harder than it really is. I could do it in a few hours now that I know how to do it. As for how I'm dealing with the ends that were cut off I am surprised how often I am asked that. It simply needs to be closed out in a visually pleasing way. I haven't done that yet.

By the way, if your Fiero has manual windows, this would be a good time to upgrade. I installed power windows in my coupe and it's not that hard. Some people suggest swapping the whole door but in this case you are more than halfway there.

By the way no one has asked yet but my speakers are Pioneer TS-A1667 200 watt speakers mounted external to the panel(to make room for the huge magnet.) The sound quality exceeded my expectations.

Stay tuned for more

Jonathan (JScott1)

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-08-2002).]

littled047 (littled@whoever.com) MSG #67, 11-08-2002 02:27 AM
      ok... i absolutely Love this idea... and i really wish that someday i can do it to mine, but i have a question... what about the center counsel... are you planning on leaving the stock one in there? just a thought. that center counsel is what i hate the most, and obviously the f-body counsel won't fit right? i dont know... but yea, im excited!


86 4cyl. SE
86 V6 2.8 GT


jscott1 MSG #68, 11-08-2002 02:55 AM
      I agree the stock center console leaves much to be desired. I have some ideas that I am trying out in my Fiero Design Studio (A.K.A. my dining room) but nothing final yet.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-08-2002).]

littled047 (littled@whoever.com) MSG #69, 11-08-2002 02:59 AM
      ok great! im pretty hyped about this. i cant wait to see what you come up with

White88cpe MSG #70, 11-08-2002 07:50 AM
      jscott.. how much did all those fbody parts cost? this is just the thing PWP needs



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #71, 11-08-2002 08:39 AM
      Ok, Ok,... I guess it's about time I come out of hiding on this. I'm also installing the Firebird dash. Jonathan (jscott1) and I have been communicating back and forth on this topic for several months now. We've shared a lot of ideas but are taking a little different apporach to the project. He is attempting to install the dash without cutting any sheet metal while I feel free to boldly hack away with a sawsall.

I'm including a couple of pictures of my project-in-progress. I'm doing all the hack-work on a chassis I've dubed "the mule". It was a badly rear-ended car that I stripped and was bound for the scrap yard before this experiment. After I'm satisfied that it'll all work, my blue 87 GT will be converted. My target date for this is over the Thanksgiving holiday. If you like, I'll bring you along for the ride.

I have alot more pictures detailing my progress that I'll be sharing. I've already completed the dash filler and am well on the way with my custom door panels. What I hope to do is build a web site to detail the build-up.



jscott1 MSG #72, 11-08-2002 11:03 AM
      Welcome to the thread Roy!

As he said we have been communicating for the last several months, (alomst daily) after we accidently discovered that we were both working on Firebird interior retrofits.

Even though our approadches are different the goal is the same, so it's interesting to see different solutions to the same problems.

We had not planned to go public until further along towards completion but I saw some pointed and direct questions in this thread that I couldn't resist answering and therfore revealed my secret project.

As for cost, I bought all my parts off the internet and had them shipped to me, (at higher cost) I haven't totalled it all up, I my guess is that if you got the dash, switches and door panels locally you could get the entire kit for less than $500. Maybe a lot less if you are lucky at the junkyard, (afterall there are 10 years worth of 4th gen f-body parts out there).

After Roy and I finish documenting the build up, some enterprising person would easily put a kit together for the masses.


jscott1 MSG #73, 11-08-2002 09:31 PM
      For the late comers to the thread and can't see the old posted images...I am retrofitting a firebird interior into my 88GT



OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #74, 11-08-2002 09:51 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

After Roy and I finish documenting the build up, some enterprising person would easily put a kit together for the masses.

And that person is hopefully gonna be me I did not intend that the dash was gonna be the Firebird dash, but the forum spoke up and said that they wanted this dash, so.....
Any way, Roy, I will be at the meeting while I am in town to pick up the Targa from Cozmo, I will have a lot of questions for you if you do not mind too much any help that you can share will be greatly, and much appreciated. One of the reasons that I am happy to be doing this mod, is that in the end it will be an affordable mod that anyone will be able to do, and the end results will be very satisfying. You have to admit that dash looks like it belongs there in our little cars .


topcat (tconey01@att.net) MSG #75, 11-08-2002 10:38 PM
      JS, could you post the pics of your door panels, I am assuming from what I read that you have them mounted as well?



jscott1 MSG #76, 11-08-2002 11:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by OH10fiero:


Any way, Roy, I will be at the meeting while I am in town to pick up the Targa from Cozmo, I will have a lot of questions for you if you do not mind too much any help that you can share will be greatly, and much appreciated. You have to admit that dash looks like it belongs there in our little cars .


As I said Roy and I have been communicating almost daily so I know what he's done. He had a bit of a head start on me, but since I'm skipping the "mule" stage I hope to catch up and hopefully have the world's first fully operational Firebird retrofitted Fiero interior. (That's a mouthful)

Due to the USA Image server going down I have re-posted the images on the NL image server. Thanks again to Cliff for letting us post images again, and at 640 x 480 no less!!!




mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #77, 11-09-2002 08:15 AM
      OH10fiero -- I'm be at the meeting and will be happy to discuss my progress.

I look forward to seeing you again,
Roy


JMunilla87GT (jmunilla@nc.rr.com) MSG #78, 11-09-2002 12:30 PM
      I think what you guys are doing is awesome. This is going to be a fairly inexpensive dash alternative for our Fieros. As usual keep us posted on everything and the more pics the better



wpgfiero (cjsvl@shaw.ca) MSG #79, 11-09-2002 12:58 PM
      love the wraparound type dash, here's another pic of one in a Supra
http://www.autosoundmag.com/features/0205ass_supra05_zoom.jpg


wpgfiero (cjsvl@shaw.ca) MSG #80, 11-09-2002 12:59 PM
      and a couple more from his interior...
http://www.autosoundmag.com/features/0205ass_supra07_zoom.jpg
http://www.autosoundmag.com/features/0205ass_supra08_zoom.jpg


newfie (trevor_m_baker@hotmail.com) MSG #81, 11-09-2002 02:06 PM
      Now that's an interior, referring to the supra's. some of those imports have sweet interiors. I wonder how much work is involved to swapping in a 90's supra interior like the one shown above. I like the f-body too but love that supra wrap around style. Wish I had a friend with a supra, I'd take some measurements.

FIERORICE MSG #82, 11-09-2002 07:07 PM
      Damn that guy killed it on the C/F. What I don't understand, people buy C/F everything yet have super stereos.... Why? I thought C/F was known for its weight reduction.

Back on topic, that Firebird dash looks great, too bad it will be ruined with GM gray plastic on HVAC.

Ricky



jscott1 MSG #83, 11-09-2002 07:28 PM
      Don't worry I have a plan for that gray plastic. If you want a preview, then look at my door handles...

drummer5 (drummer5@twcny.rr.com) MSG #84, 11-09-2002 11:16 PM
      Damn I'm lazy.... I still havn't gotten around the scetching anything out yet, but I plan on doing a rap around dash like in the supra but with a smoother look and different passenger side dash panel. Maybe I should do some quick crappy scetches right now...

GTFiero1 (fierogt5speed@aol.com) MSG #85, 11-09-2002 11:29 PM
      looking good jscott1 i had no idea you did this custom stuff. heres a positive rating



OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #86, 11-10-2002 10:32 AM
      Wow, when I started this I had no idea that it would go to 80 somethings post Well I am now getting ready for my flight to Florida to pick up another Fiero to add to the family I have, that will now be five for me. This fith car will also be the car to recieve the Firebird dash, so when I return I will go buy a digital camera, because I need one anyway, start the project, and document everything for all to see. When I am done I will see if a kit can be made of this, or if it will be just a matter of taking carefull measurements, either way you will know. See ya in a week and a half

jscott1 MSG #87, 11-12-2002 02:53 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GTFiero1:

looking good jscott1 i had no idea you did this custom stuff. heres a positive rating



Thanks GTFiero1...If anyone else here appreciates what I'm doing here, give me a positive.

Here's some progress from the long holiday weekend.



speed1 MSG #88, 11-12-2002 04:06 AM
      This looks like a great swap. I'm gonna need all the details on this swap. Hope jscott1 finishes soon and gets that website up and running.

soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #89, 11-12-2002 05:22 AM
      What about on the top of the dash there. Are you going to have to build a piece to fit there, or is there a nother part of the dash that fits in there.

I am talking about the space between the dash and the windshield that is still bare.

Also, do you have a close up of where you cut the back of the door off. Are the panels wrapped in vinyl. The reason I ask, is because if you cut the back off, and it has vinyl, you can stretch the vinyl around so it looks like you never cut it. But, if it is formed plastic, then how are you going to make it have a clean cut on the back of the panels?

[This message has been edited by soup (edited 11-12-2002).]

JMunilla87GT (jmunilla@nc.rr.com) MSG #90, 11-12-2002 10:10 AM
      you got a positive....you are the man(well the dash man anyway)...This is gonna rock when you get it done.

the need for speed (dewalker3@attbi.com) MSG #91, 11-12-2002 10:15 AM
      how close is the shifter to the dash?looks tight right there.but still looks sweat!!!!!!!!!

jscott1 MSG #92, 11-12-2002 10:21 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by soup:

What about on the top of the dash there. Are you going to have to build a piece to fit there, or is there a nother part of the dash that fits in there.

I am talking about the space between the dash and the windshield that is still bare.

Also, do you have a close up of where you cut the back of the door off. Are the panels wrapped in vinyl. The reason I ask, is because if you cut the back off, and it has vinyl, you can stretch the vinyl around so it looks like you never cut it. But, if it is formed plastic, then how are you going to make it have a clean cut on the back of the panels?

Thanks for the good words JMunilla87GT

Regarding the top of the dash there are a couple of ways to deal with that. If you look a page back Roy has built a custom piece out of fiberglass to fill that are. I plan to take the standard Firebird panel and trim it to size after I get the final dash placement nailed down, (bolted down actually).

As for the door panel ends it is a combination of fabric and formed plastic. I plan to make a custom piece to cover the ends.



stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #93, 11-12-2002 10:24 AM
      What i'd be looking for is a Kit that gave me all the extras that i'd need to make the conversion work assuming that i'd buy the parts.

I do have a few suggestions and questions

Questions
~What exactly is needed from the f-body donor car with regards to interior parts
~Is there any trimming that has to be done on anything else besides the doors.
~What snags were encountered (larger ones...not the little "easy to fix" ones.


I'm not the greatest at fabricating things, however, i feel that if i was guided well I too could do this upgrade.

I suggest that a MSN group or Mailing list be started to keep people that are interested in this "in the loop"

I'd be intersted in buying a Kit that would include the following
~Simple written instructions that cover the important stuff
~All parts that needed to be fabricated to make this dash work

I'd want to buy the parts from the donor car...all i'd need is a kit to make it work w/ the fiero...

Is this possible

JSCOTT1 you've got a big + from me and you've got me HAPPY again...i just finished the engine conversion and was running out of things to do...i just found a P-windows kit from a Fellow Canadian PFF member and it'd go great with an entire interior Retrofit.

Please PM / e-mail me with info on the possibilty of a Kit or anwers to my questions

Thanks A LOT you guys are doing an AMAIZING job!

Keep it up!

Good Luck!



jscott1 MSG #94, 11-12-2002 11:41 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by the need for speed:

how close is the shifter to the dash?looks tight right there.but still looks sweat!!!!!!!!!

The shifter is pretty close to the dash, but I've got Rodney's short shifter in there for now. I have to see how it works with the console, but I think the stock shifter might have a better angle on it. I have to work with it a little before I know for sure.

stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #95, 11-12-2002 04:58 PM
      I love this THREAD!

jscott1 will the gauge cluster read the right readings from at least the speedometer, Gas, and temp?

[pm w/ answers please]



wpgfiero (cjsvl@shaw.ca) MSG #96, 11-12-2002 06:40 PM
      looks great!

DaRkLoRD (chaosproject@gmail.com) MSG #97, 11-12-2002 06:48 PM
      I have something else in mind for the dash and console, but I love those doors!



Fatal Error (spage@texascomputer.org) MSG #98, 11-12-2002 08:20 PM
      What year did that dash and doors come out of?

-Fatal

stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #99, 11-12-2002 09:21 PM
      4th gen are which years EXACTLY?



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #100, 11-12-2002 09:34 PM
      Let me see if I can answer a few questions:

Stevenrossi --

You need:
The dash and dash frame
Gauge cluster
The door panels
center console (optional).

The dash will fit without any trimming (on the dash) if your willing to cut some metal away around the steering column hoop (the metal piece that holds the steering column). I've mounted mine up against the lip at the base of the windshield -- the same lip where the stock Fiero dash mounts But I chose to cut route where you cut metal away to make it fit.

I made a filler piece to go from the dash to the base of the windshield. I cut the front lip off of the Fiero dash and fastened it to the lip then made a masking tape bridge between the Firebird dash and the Fiero dash section. I then layed fiberglassand used fiber-reinforced Bondo to give it some strength and plastic filler to smooth it. I then cut the defroster holes.

The door panels area a pain any way you build them. Jonathan (jscott1) cut the Firebird panels and plans to make end covers to hide the cut and ease the transition. I flattened the Fiero door panels and am attempting to use the door handle, bezel, and armrest and then cover the door panel to look like the Firebirds. Neather is finished so the story continues.

You asked about snags... LOTS. Remember, this is all hand crafted. Everything needs to be developed and that means a lot of trial and error. Jonathan is a little more confident that this could be made into a kit. I'm not so sure.

I am taking lots of digital pictures of my build up and hope to document the project on a web site (If I can learn how to build one). It should give enough information to help others who want to attempt the project.

In a later note, you asked about the gauges. I mocked mine up to see how they performed and was relieved to see that the speedo, tack, and voltmeter were dead on. I didn't hook up the oil, water or gas because when I compared the sensors using both Helms books and they were the same. Since then, Jonathan has had trouble getting the gas gauge to work correctly. My gauges came out of an earlier model so I'm hoping I don't run into the same problem. If so, I've already got a fix in mind.

the need for speed -- My dash will sit about an inch closer to the windshield. There is plenty of room for a stock shifter.

Fatal Error -- My dash and stuff came from a 94 Firebird but is the same as a 93-95. Jonathan's came from a later model that used digital the odemeter. Anything from 93 or newer will work but there is stll some questions on the gauge cluster.

As I mentioned before, I plan on doing my install into my daily driver over the Thanks giving holiday week. I'll have more pictures to show at that time.

I Hope this helps,
Roy


stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #101, 11-12-2002 10:05 PM
      Thanks Roy

If you'd like i've got 10MB of Free space that you can use...if you build it i'll give you my space.


Thanks A LOT for the info I'll do it over the x-mas break w/ a good friend and i'll probably need A LOT of help

Thanks ALOT

Keep me posted!



8Ball (viriiguy@gmail.com) MSG #102, 11-12-2002 11:15 PM
      This is exactly the thing we needed for the Fiero!!!

Now if I ever get another Fiero, I will be ripping the insides apart so I can try my hand at this as well.

I have often tried to come up with a newer design for the interior, but have never been able to nail anything down. After reading this article, I and 100% certain this is exactly what Iw ant to do!!!!

Anyone in Atlantic Canada want to donate a Fiero to the Save Randy from Boredom cause



stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #103, 11-12-2002 11:48 PM
      It's funny how the local yard has NO 4th Gen's AT ALL...that means my job is that much harder now

DARN!



jscott1 MSG #104, 11-13-2002 12:49 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Let me see if I can answer a few questions:

Fatal Error -- My dash and stuff came from a 94 Firebird but is the same as a 93-95. Jonathan's came from a later model that used digital the odemeter. Anything from 93 or newer will work but there is stll some questions on the gauge cluster.


I Hope this helps,
Roy


Thanks Roy for taking the time to answer some of the questions that popped up during the day.

Let me expand a little on the donor Firebird vehicle. All my parts are coming from a 1998 V6 Firebird. Not because I am parting one out, but just to keep a consistent data base and I figure a 10 year update on my '88 sounds good.

Unlike Camaro, the Firebird dash remained largely unchanged from '93 all the way up to 2002. There were some subtle changes to the console in '97 (extra cupholders added) and the odometer went digital. The top filler piece of the dash also took on a slightly different curve but it's a very small difference.

For the most part everything we are talking about here is applicable to any 4th gen Firebird you happen to find in the yards.

I am having an issue with the gas gauge which appears to be digital and not compatible with the analog sensor on the Fiero, but I haven't given up yet. Worse case I need to get a cluster from an older 4th gen. You want one from a V6 to avoid having to recalibrate the tach, (which I have verified works)

Between Roy and I we will document all that we have learned and the next wave or people to do this mod will know exactly what works and what doesn't.

By the way, my airbag is just for show, maybe the next person will take on the challenge of installing the slip ring and wiring it up.

Here is a before shot

The beechwood interior went to a good home. (I don't have any pieces left for sale)


soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #105, 11-13-2002 04:45 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:
I am taking lots of digital pictures of my build up and hope to document the project on a web site (If I can learn how to build one). It should give enough information to help others who want to attempt the project.

If you send me the pictures, I would gladly set up a webpage for you. I used to do it for a design company all the time.

Plus Steven Rossi said you could host it on his site.

You can email me at soup@soupk.com if you are intersted.

-Jamie Kembel

P.S. I will also copy this thread, and throw it on the web page for a quick answer to questions, and for people to see the initial progresses of this install.

[This message has been edited by soup (edited 11-13-2002).]

stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #106, 11-13-2002 10:00 AM
      Yes...I've got 10MB on http://members.rogers.com

Feel free to make anything you'd like and i'd be happy to give you my space!...of course it'd have to be under 10MB

I'm currently looking for the interior and i'm shooting to do this during the x-mas break

I'll keep in touch with all people doing the swap

if anyone has MSN messenger or ICQ please PM me your numbers or e-mails to i can keep in touch with you more frequently

ThanX!



gargoyle (tardis7@earthlink.net) MSG #107, 11-13-2002 01:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DaRkLoRD:

I have something else in mind for the dash and console, but I love those doors!


I'm with him on that. WOW what a great thread. This really makes me want to go out and work on mine. Here are a few pics. This is the Archie dash. I'm just using his dash not the door panels.




stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #108, 11-13-2002 03:30 PM
      I think that it's a little too expensive for just a mold that need yet to be fit and upholstered.

I think that the Firebird dash is EXACTLY what my Yellow monster needs.

To everyone that is doing the Firebird conversion please let me know if my 10MB space will me useful and what i can do to help getting a website together. I know NOTHING but lord know a lot of ppl on PFF do.

I'm currently looking for a 1993+ Interior and once I find it i'll do the upgrade over the x-mas holiday!



jscott1 MSG #109, 11-13-2002 05:33 PM
      Steven,

I can work on a website, if you PM me with the address and password where I can FTP the web pages

stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #110, 11-13-2002 06:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Steven,

I can work on a website, if you PM me with the address and password where I can FTP the web pages

PM SENT (2 infact )



stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #111, 11-13-2002 10:54 PM
      Giving this thread some help from your friendly neighbourhood bumber-man



Starter (mlukso@msn.com) MSG #112, 11-14-2002 12:04 AM
      i was wondering if you guys are using the seats from the firebird and what are u going to do w/ the middle console?

if someone made a kit, i'd suggest including precut pieces for the doors to fill in the gaps and also for the gap by the window. and if the middle console f/ the firebird isn't usable, it'd be nice to have a redesigned one that matches the dash. some instructions and specifications on cutting would be nice too. thxs, and good luck to everyone. i hope this thing pans out.

jscott1 MSG #113, 11-14-2002 09:29 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

I agree the stock center console leaves much to be desired. I have some ideas that I am trying out in my Fiero Design Studio (A.K.A. my dining room) but nothing final yet.

I'm using Standard Fiero Seats, but Firebird seats bolt right up to Fiero tracks. If I ever find a good deal on Firebird seats I might swap.

I was initially planning to use a modified Fiero console, but I have made some progress on modifying the Firebird one. I'll post pics shortly.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-14-2002).]

stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #114, 11-14-2002 09:45 AM
      ...Still looking for a good interior

Anyone know where, in Ontario, I can find a cheap one?



gangrenefiero (gangrenefiero@yahoo.com) MSG #115, 11-14-2002 10:49 AM
      i think if you could keep it cheap but good quality you would sell a ton of them. Some others are 1000 dollars or more and wheni only paid 2000 more the whole car thats too much. But more rounded really is all i needs the stock gauges will be good.

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #116, 11-14-2002 10:58 AM
      A little update... I've been able to install the Firebird console. It took quite a bit of surgery on both the Firebrd console and the Fiero tunnel but the fit is pretty good. I also had to make a separate computer-tunnel cover. I'll post pictures of the install on my test mule later tonight. If everything else goes according to plan, you should see pictres of the finished product by the end of the Thanksgiving holiday week.

Roy

[This message has been edited by mrfixit58 (edited 11-14-2002).]

jscott1 MSG #117, 11-14-2002 11:55 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

A little update... I've been able to install the Firebird console. It took quite a bit of surgery on both the Firebrd console and the Fiero tunnel but the fit is pretty good. I also had to make a separate computer-tunnel cover. I'll post pictures of the install on my test mule later tonight. If everything else goes according to plan, you should see pictres of the finished product by the end of the Thanksgiving holiday week.

Roy

I was sworn to secrecy on Roy's progress, but Roy's Firebird console is absolutely beautiful. The only gotcha is that it requires a fair amount of cutting on the Fiero and fiberglass work.

I spent all day yesterday with the jig saw and dremel on my console and I think it will be possible to mount the '97-02 Firebird console without cutting any metal on the Fiero. I have mine in place but I am lacking the Firebird console trim plate that has the ashtray, cupholder and shift boot. I have one on order from GM and should have it tomorrow. When I get that I'll be able to determine the final fitment of the console and dash and post some pics.

The gotcha is that I had to relocate my computer to behind the driver's seat. There is plenty of wire to do this and it only took about 2 minutes. I plan to take what's left of the Fiero console and make a cover for the area where the computer used to be.

Stay tuned.


(edited for spelling)

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-14-2002).]

DaRkLoRD (chaosproject@gmail.com) MSG #118, 11-14-2002 01:42 PM
      Can't wait to see pics!!



Songman MSG #119, 11-14-2002 01:55 PM
      Here's a pretty good deal on a Firebird dash.. especially if you are in Michigan..

Only a few hours left though...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1872187989


Songman MSG #120, 11-14-2002 03:20 PM
      This may have been covered already somewhere that I missed... You are using the steering wheel with controls on it. Did you change the steering column or just run wires for the controls? Also, you still got an airbag in there? Surely that is not functional too, if you do. I would think that would require lots more mods!

jscott1 MSG #121, 11-14-2002 04:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Songman:

This may have been covered already somewhere that I missed... You are using the steering wheel with controls on it. Did you change the steering column or just run wires for the controls? Also, you still got an airbag in there? Surely that is not functional too, if you do. I would think that would require lots more mods!

Woooo hoo I own Page 4

Songman, actually you are the first to ask about the radio controls. They will be functional. The Firebird column uses a slip ring for the radio and airbag wires. I have a slip ring as well as an entire Firebird column, and considered using it. But it would require a lot of work to install them so I decided on a different path.

Instead, for the radio I intend to just run a flexible wire up to the steering wheel. The radio controls are a three wire analog system that applies voltage through some resistors to each switch. I plan to use a phone cord or simlilar flexible wire, and with the size of the airbag should not be easily visible wrapped around the column.

In theory, the airbag could be wired up the same way. The only thing needed to operate the airbag is a small module located in the center of the car, simliar to a shock sensor for an alarm. No other components are needed.

The only question is whether or not I want a pyrotecnic device in front of my face that I connected using make shift wires? Probably not, so the airbag is just for show, (the steering wheel won't look right without it) and to make the horn work.

As for the fitment of the steering wheel, it has a key that allows it to fit on the Firebird column only one way, and not at all on the Fiero column. About 5 miuntes with the grinding dremel tool and I was able to remove the key and it fits on the Fiero column perfectly.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-14-2002).]

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #122, 11-14-2002 05:38 PM
      Here's the test mule with the dash, dash filler and the console in place. It looks like it belongs there.




DaRkLoRD (chaosproject@gmail.com) MSG #123, 11-14-2002 05:42 PM
      DECENT!!!

man, that looks nice... I have a feeling this will suddenly become a very common swap!



AznFiero MSG #124, 11-14-2002 08:37 PM
      HOly moly, keep this thing up! That looks great!!

Screw the 300Zx, why spend 2000 when you can get a just as nice lookin firebird one for 200 bucks...hope it's not too complicated

stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #125, 11-14-2002 08:54 PM
      Ok few q's that you can post here and PM me w/

~Will stock fiero Radio work?
~Which fiberglass in specific needs to be cut?
~Can this be done WITHOUT touching the cars structure AT ALL? (entinre swap)
~How were climate controlls adapted to the Fiero ones?
~Is the steering wheel a NESSESSITY to put on? if so is it hard? What is needed?
~How hard is it to adapt the Fiero gauges to Firebird gaauges?


So far I understand that the Door panels are Dash are easy to mount but the wiring for p-windows and acctually switch adapting is the complicated part

I will probably do the FULL swap into my car but i'd need to get that website running so i can see it for myself, I have no fear if improvising and electronics but I do need to know exactly what extra i'd need to make this all work that won't come with the dash

I understand that i need

~Dash + mounting frame
~Center Console
~Door panels
~Gauge Cluster

And all of these parts have to have all of the hardware still on them (Swtiches and nobs)


Please someone KEEP A DIARY Or something...i'd like to read everything that was experianced for this swap

That would be SOO COOL

Thanks A LOT

keep up the great work!



soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #126, 11-14-2002 10:37 PM
      mrfixit58... I am still willing to make that webpage for you. You also have a PM.

All I need is the pictures. And I will try to get most of the information off this page for the details on the swap, but what I can't get off this site, I will get you to fill in.

Smoooooth GT MSG #127, 11-14-2002 11:03 PM
      This thread is like you both's work.... A M A Z I N G !!!!!!!

Smooth!!



8Ball (viriiguy@gmail.com) MSG #128, 11-15-2002 12:58 AM
      I have a question, and I am fairly sure it has not yet been covered.

I am not a very tall man, and the standard Fiero interior is almost at that breaking point for me visibility wise. How much higher or lower is the top of the dash at the gauge pod? If it is higher I would most likely have a problem, if it is lower I am all over this one

Oh yea one more.
MrFixit,
Your method actually pushes the dash back a little further correct? This has a major advantage as it will work with the shifter better I think, but with your method, how hard would it be to use the firebird's door panels?

Thanks,
Randy

[This message has been edited by 8Ball (edited 11-15-2002).]

DaRkLoRD (chaosproject@gmail.com) MSG #129, 11-15-2002 01:08 AM
      the one question I have, is...

WHY THE HECK WOULD ANYONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND ACTUALLY WANT TO KEEP THE PIECE OF JUNK STOCK FIERO RADIO?????

jeez man, get a cd player. LOL.



jscott1 MSG #130, 11-15-2002 03:55 AM
      AnzFiero - That's the beauty of this swap, the parts are cheap and the results can be impressive.

stevenrossi - The stock Fiero radio will work. So will any GM din and a half radio. I selected a Firebird cassette because I wanted something cheap that worked with the steering wheel controls. I didn't want a GM CD player because I am custom mounting a DVD player in TBD location.

I have not cut any structure at all. That is the difference between my method and mrfixit58, (Roy) But I am limited on the dash placement, but I think it works better with the firebird door panels.

The steering wheel is stritcly optional. If you look a few pages back I posted a pic with the fiero steering wheel still in-place. It doesn't look bad, but I wanted the complete Firebird look.

The gauges are pretty easy with the exception of the gas gauge with resolution still pending on that.

The environmental controls will be modified Firebird controls. The vacuum switch will be replaced by an electric switch. Both Roy and I are still working on our switches.

8ball - the rounded part of the dash is maybe an inch higher than the stock fiero. The level part is about the same. Unless you are currently driving by looking through the steering wheel, it shouldn't be a problem.

mrfixit58's dash does sit maybe an inch closer to the windshield and makes the center console integration with the shifter easier, but I think I have a design solution that will work as well. Here is a first look at that.

What you are seeing is probably not the final placement of the console. It will probably have to be further forward, but I won't know until I get the trim piece with the shift boot tomorrow.

By the way, I propose that Firebird/Trans am retrofited Fieros be called "Trans Fieros"


Jonathan (Jscott1)

(edited to add information)

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-15-2002).]

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #131, 11-15-2002 07:51 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by soup:

mrfixit58... I am still willing to make that webpage for you. You also have a PM.

All I need is the pictures. And I will try to get most of the information off this page for the details on the swap, but what I can't get off this site, I will get you to fill in.

Soup -- Thanks for the offer. I just may take you up on it. I'll know more after I pull the Firebird interior out of my test mule and start puttng into my daily driver. This is going to start a week from today. The last thing I want to do is start a "how to" web site if I haven't figured how to do it. I'll keep you posted.

[This message has been edited by mrfixit58 (edited 11-15-2002).]

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #132, 11-15-2002 08:14 AM
      To answer a souple of quick questions:

In my design, the dash housing sit a little higher that the stock dash. I also moved my steering column up to better fit into the cavity on the dash. The benifit of thes is I now have a little bit of added lap room which is especally nice when getting in or out of the car. as a side note, I once bought a car from a lady who was less than five foot tall. She use a pillow while driving.

How would my dash work with the Firebird door panels? I have no idea. I am re-desiging my Fiero door panels using the Firebird arm rests, bezels, and door handle. Then I will have them recovered to simulate the Firebird panels.

Personally, I have no problem cutting metal away to make the Firebird dash fit. I never plan on going back to the Fiero interior once the conversion is complete anyway. The difference between me and Jonathan is I'm doing all my experimentation on a junk car that will wind up in the crusher once I'm finished. Jonathan is bravely performing his transformation directly on his personal car. Once you see both methods, you can pick the one that's right for you. Most likely, you'll pick and choose what you like from each and build it your way.


Back to work,
Roy


jscott1 MSG #133, 11-15-2002 12:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Personally, I have no problem cutting metal away to make the Firebird dash fit. I never plan on going back to the Fiero interior once the conversion is complete anyway. The difference between me and Jonathan is I'm doing all my experimentation on a junk car that will wind up in the crusher once I'm finished. Jonathan is bravely performing his transformation directly on his personal car. Once you see both methods, you can pick the one that's right for you. Most likely, you'll pick and choose what you like from each and build it your way.


Back to work,
Roy


Let me add to this. Roy is right. When I started I had no idea if this would work or not, therefore I was not inclined to start cutting on a perfectly good 88 GT. He had the advantage of having a parts car to experiment with. That is the difference in our approach.

Now that the end is in sight I wouldn't be apposed to doing a little cutting, but in general I prefer to cut on the Firebird part and not the Fiero.


JMunilla87GT (jmunilla@nc.rr.com) MSG #134, 11-15-2002 01:27 PM
      mrfixit--my question is how high is that center console, does it make it hard to reach the shifter?


soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #135, 11-15-2002 02:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Soup -- Thanks for the offer. I just may take you up on it. I'll know more after I pull the Firebird interior out of my test mule and start puttng into my daily driver. This is going to start a week from today. The last thing I want to do is start a "how to" web site if I haven't figured how to do it. I'll keep you posted.

[This message has been edited by mrfixit58 (edited 11-15-2002).]

Sounds good. I can't wait to see both of you complete this. I think this will become THE most common swap for the Fiero.

I went down yesterday to check out the local/provincial wrecker. According to their database they had ONE in the WOLE PROVINCE! They wanted $600!! for the dash alone. The guy also said there were small scratches on the one corner of the dash, and there were no HVAC controller, vents, or anything else in the dash. So when I get the cash I think I will be posting on here, and checking out wreckers in the states.

jscott1 MSG #136, 11-15-2002 03:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by soup:

Sounds good. I can't wait to see both of you complete this. I think this will become THE most common swap for the Fiero.

I went down yesterday to check out the local/provincial wrecker. According to their database they had ONE in the WOLE PROVINCE! They wanted $600!! for the dash alone. The guy also said there were small scratches on the one corner of the dash, and there were no HVAC controller, vents, or anything else in the dash. So when I get the cash I think I will be posting on here, and checking out wreckers in the states.


I would like to see the Firebird/trans am interior become the swap that everyone wants to do, like big brakes or big wheels. So often interiors are neglected even in show cars. I hate to see a really nice Fiero and then you look inside and it's stock pods everywhere.

Oh yeah, I wanted to add that there are some deals out there in the junk yards for Firebird parts, but if I were to add up what I spent on MY conversion it would probably be in the range of other interior swaps, probably $1000, -$1,500.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-15-2002).]

Nashco (nashco@hotmail.com) MSG #137, 11-15-2002 04:23 PM
      Wow! Fantastic thread. I've been out of the loop lately, and just now got to read all of it. You guys have made some very impressive progress, my hat is off to you!

Bryce
88 GT


mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #138, 11-15-2002 05:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Oh yeah, I wanted to add that there are some deals out there in the junk yards for Firebird parts, but if I were to add up what I spent on MY conversion it would probably be in the range of other interior swaps, probably $1000, -$1,500.

[COLOR=Blue(edited 11-15-2002).][/COLOR]

OUCH!!!

I bought a dash with a blown air bag, gauge cluster and lower panel (the piece below the steering column) for $40.

I bought a console and door handles for $20

I bought the busted up door panels, environmental conrol panel, and headlight switch for $35.

So far I've spent about $100 on fiberglass, fiber reinforced Bondo, and plastic Bondo.

I expect to spend about $100 on misc stuff like paint and junk (being real conservative with this estimate).


So that's $295 do far.

I expect to spend upwards of $200-300 to cover the door panels unless I decide to do it myself.

The seats I want from Mr, Mikes will cost ne $500.

I want new carpet which sill run $125.

Total makeover: $1200.

Again, that TOTAL makeover including seats, carpet, door panels, AND custom dash and console.

I think that's real reasonable.

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #139, 11-15-2002 05:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JMunilla87GT:

mrfixit--my question is how high is that center console, does it make it hard to reach the shifter?

Funny. I always thought that using the short shifter made the stock Fiero console seem a little high. Ya know how you have to throw your right elbow out to keep from rubbing the console. I'm leaning toward using the stock shifter because it is offset to the left and feels better. Then maybe add Rodney's short throw kit. With the clove box pad, the back of the new console is a little higher... maybe 1" to 1 1/2".

Roy

JMunilla87GT (jmunilla@nc.rr.com) MSG #140, 11-15-2002 05:55 PM
      thats not too bad...if you use the stock shifter I think it would be at just about the right level. thanks for the info. I am just waiting for you brave guys to do it before I start It looks like it is coming along though.

jscott1 MSG #141, 11-15-2002 06:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

OUCH!!!
...

Total makeover: $1200.

Again, that TOTAL makeover including seats, carpet, door panels, AND custom dash and console.

I think that's real reasonable.


Okay I didn't itemize because I have been afraid to, but my estimate includes a color change from Beechwood to Gray so it's a little high.

Also I did all my shopping from the comfort of my living room. Definitely more expensive than the searching the yards.

Here are my rough estimates from memory(all prices include shipping):

Perfect Dash with a non-blown air bag = $400

gauge cluster = $40

Gage and radio Surround = $50

lower panel (the piece below the steering column) Still looking for one of these

console = came with dash

door handles = $30

door panels = $100

Window/lock swithes = $50

environmental conrol panel = $50

headlight switch = $35.

fiberglass, fiber reinforced Bondo, and plastic Bondo = $0

misc stuff like paint and junk plus wire/solder and stuff = $100

Other crap I've bought:

Steering Wheel $80

Cassette Radio = $45

Airbags = $120

Color Change crap:

New Trim = $75

Gray Carpet = $35

Seat Covers (88 original cloth) = $300


That's about $855 for the basic parts and another $245 for the optional stuff and another $410 for the color change. A cool $1500 for a complete interior makeover.

No question it can be done for less. But as some people are discovering the firebird parts are not as plentiful in the yards as you might expect. I didn't feel like looking so I got most all my stuff off of eBay.

- Jonathan (Jscott1)

soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #142, 11-16-2002 05:16 PM
      I can't believe this went to the second page. Tisk Tisk people. oh...ummm... bump?

stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #143, 11-16-2002 07:34 PM
      I think i've found a place where i can get the parts from, but I don't think i have $1200USD for this...i hope i can get all the parts for cheaper



wpgfiero (cjsvl@shaw.ca) MSG #144, 11-16-2002 09:10 PM
      that looks sweet, but I was just wondering what goes on the upright part between the seats? I see the armrest part but what covers the part of the wall between the seats? heres the pic im talking about: http://www.fiero.nl/uploads/imgs2003/Console13.JPG

jscott1 MSG #145, 11-16-2002 11:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by wpgfiero:

that looks sweet, but I was just wondering what goes on the upright part between the seats? I see the armrest part but what covers the part of the wall between the seats? heres the pic im talking about: http://www.fiero.nl/uploads/imgs2003/Console13.JPG


After posting that picture I realized that the console is not going to work in that location. It needs to be about 3 inches further forward. To confirm the console fitment I spent about 30 minutes sitting in a brand new 2002 Collector's Edition Trans Am at the dealership, (probably the last brand new Trans Am I will ever sit in )

Anyway To get this further forward console placement I am going to have to cut the metal supports on the Fiero over the gas tank. I have come to the conclusion that there is no other way to make the Firebird console work without significantly changing the Firebird console.

All that to say that I can probably put my computer back in the center and still use what's left of the Fiero console as a cover. As a rule I worry about the structural/mechanical, and electrical aspects of the swap first then the cosmetic things last. I consider the piece in the middle to be cosmetic.

I hope to have some pictures of the new fitment of the console before the weekend is over. And also I have put the stock shifter back on in place of Rodney's short shifter. I think it will work better since it has a slight angle to the rear. If only it wasn't so dang tall.

- Jonathan (Jscott1)


mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #146, 11-17-2002 09:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by wpgfiero:

that looks sweet, but I was just wondering what goes on the upright part between the seats? I see the armrest part but what covers the part of the wall between the seats? heres the pic im talking about: http://www.fiero.nl/uploads/imgs2003/Console13.JPG

To hide that area, I built a cover out of fiberglass. I combined it with a cover for the portion of the tunnel that the Firebird console won't cover. I made the form out o stryrofoam and covered it with masking tape as a barrier between the foam and the resin. When set, the foam was removed and the tape just peeled off. The fiberglass won't stick to masking tape.

Hope this helps,
Roy



jscott1 MSG #147, 11-17-2002 10:10 AM
      Roy,

That looks great!! Your fiberglass skills are far better than you will freely admit. The challenge is for me to come up with something that looks at least as good as that.

I am still toying with the idea of a functional glove compartment where the computer normally is, but I'm not sure it's needed.

I know Roy will have two glove compartments in the dash along with a fucntional one in the console, (although shallow). But still you can never have to much storage, especially in our little cars.

I need to do some more cutting before I can try fitting my console again.

- Jonathan (JScott1)

jelly2m8 (acook1@bwr.eastlink.ca) MSG #148, 11-17-2002 06:49 PM
      WOW, a BIG thumbs up to both jscott1 and mrfixit58.

Both your projects look awesome!



Songman MSG #149, 11-17-2002 06:57 PM
      There's something that I have thought of for a while in thoughts for a custom interior for myself, but I don't have the skills to make it come true yet...
How about a cover that covers the entire back wall and raises in the center for the ECM and the seats sorta sink back into it... Something like on a C5 Corvette convertible. Just make the bottom part of the mold fit the back of the Firebird console.


jscott1 MSG #150, 11-17-2002 11:45 PM
      After a whole weekend of cutting I was able to slap everything back together for another fit check of the console. There is still some final adjustments to make but it looks like it's going to work in this location.

I'm still deciding whether or not to put the computer back in the center. We'll see when I trim the Fiero console to use as a cover.

I still have to make the environmental controls. They are just standing in for the photo opportunity. But I'd say I made some progress for the weekend.

Stay tuned for more.

Jonathan (JScott1)



Formula88 MSG #151, 11-17-2002 11:50 PM
      Man, that shifter looks awfully close to the dashboard.

Capt Fiero (captfiero@captfiero.com) MSG #152, 11-17-2002 11:52 PM
      Holy Cow, that looks awsome. I have always loved the wrap around gauge sets. That new dash just works so well in the car. Kinda reminds me of the 89-90 Fiero. I will be following this thread.



jscott1 MSG #153, 11-18-2002 12:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Formula88:

Man, that shifter looks awfully close to the dashboard.

Not really. Of course the shifter is in the same place it always was, it's the dashboard that's gotten closer. The shifter is basically in the same relative position to the dash as in the Firebird. Maybe an inch closer in mine versus Roy's but since I changed back to stock shifter there is plenty of room.


soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #154, 11-18-2002 02:17 AM
      Jonathan, could you do me a huge favor? Next time you take pictures, can you put the shifter in first gear and show the distance you still have between the console and the shifter?

Not a big deal, just curious of the actual play still there.

jelly2m8 (acook1@bwr.eastlink.ca) MSG #155, 11-18-2002 02:22 AM
      jscott1, if you think you want any more space for the shifter, try one from a 84, they have bent rearward of almost an inch.



OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #156, 11-18-2002 01:57 PM
      Mrfixit, jscott, I cannot believe you two hijacked my thread . Well I had no idea that anyone had gotten as far as you two did when I started this. Oh well, looks like I will have to jump on the band wagon then. As for those who have shown interest in this project, like I said when I complete mine I will then at that time, see what will be needed to make a kit where all you have to do is get a dash from a local junk yard, and then install, or I may find out that all the modifications can be done by anyone and just go onto possibly designing an original dash for the Fiero. But with all the informantion at hand and looking at cost for a original dash to be massproduced, I feel that the Firebird conversion is the best option for the dollar. You have so many options as far as final look just by mixing Fiero And Firebird intrior parts for a long list of combos that will make each car unique, depending on which approach was taken to install this dash.

jscott1 MSG #157, 11-18-2002 06:03 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by OH10fiero:

Mrfixit, jscott, I cannot believe you two hijacked my thread . Well I had no idea that anyone had gotten as far as you two did when I started this. Oh well, looks like I will have to jump on the band wagon then...

For those that can't tell from the grin OH10fiero is joking about the thread hijacking He invited us to this thread back on page 2.

When I started this project I didn't know of any complete Firebird swaps and then I discovered Mrfixit58 was working on one. We were working together in secret when I couldn't resist the temptation of this thread to reveal my progress.

Even though I used a money is no object approach to my parts collection, Mrfixit58 (Roy) has spent about half what I did to achieve similar/better results.

After Thankgiving there should be two working "Trans Fieros" cruising around and hopefully it will be the swap that everyone wants to do.

- Jonathan (JScott1)


soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #158, 11-18-2002 09:03 PM
      Hopefully, if this works out good for you guys. By spring, I will do this swap as well as a 4.9, and have the first Trans Cadero... or Cadero Am... or Trans Cadero Am.

stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #159, 11-18-2002 09:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by soup:

Hopefully, if this works out good for you guys. By spring, I will do this swap as well as a 4.9, and have the first Trans Cadero... or Cadero Am... or Trans Cadero Am.

Correction....2nd! LOL

I'm going to do it but probably not any time soon



jscott1 MSG #160, 11-19-2002 12:56 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by soup:

Jonathan, could you do me a huge favor? Next time you take pictures, can you put the shifter in first gear and show the distance you still have between the console and the shifter?

Not a big deal, just curious of the actual play still there.


Here's what it looks like in first gear

Still plenty of room in my opinion.

Here is second gear.

A short shifter with an angle on it would be better...does anyone have a picture of the '84 shifter? it might be better



OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #161, 11-19-2002 01:14 AM
      Well, I just got my dash from the junk yard today, and I have to say I was a bit disappointed. It looks like the thing was just ripped out, a lot of the parts were damaged from thier removal method . On the bright side this gives me the freedom to hack away anyway possible, and not worry if I have to glue the dash back with popsicle sticks. After coming to that conculsion, I will probly take more time than I had planned for this, just so that I may experiment a bit and see how a few ideas work. One question before I go. Now that I have the dash I see how a kit would come in handy to speed up the process of instilation. One of the areas I was looking at was the back piece that goes from the gauges to the windshild needs a fiberglass adapter, in that piece, should I include front speakers, or should I just go with the door speakers for my sound??? Give me your opinions please.

jscott1 MSG #162, 11-19-2002 01:30 AM
      Definitely do door speakers

Mine sound way better than I expected. There are about a billion 6 1/2" round speakers to choose from and they sound great. It would be more work to get them in the Firebird dash since it's not designed for them.

Here's a photo of my latest progress (same as on page 4 but now you don't have to page back there)


[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-19-2002).]

perkidelic (tp@toddshotrods.com) MSG #163, 11-19-2002 01:40 AM
      Yup, plus by locating the speakers in the
door gives better imaging IMHO

perk



OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #164, 11-19-2002 01:48 AM
      Now I could always keep the door speakers, and also have the dash speakers. What about that as well?

soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #165, 11-19-2002 06:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by stevenrossi:

Correction....2nd! LOL

I'm going to do it but probably not any time soon

Ahh.. but mine will be the first fastback then And definately the first with T-Tops... I RULE!.. sorry for my outburst there.

That is plenty of room for the shifter. That is looking sooo god.

I HAVE to do this swap soon or I am gonna go crazy.

soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #166, 11-19-2002 06:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by OH10fiero:

Now I could always keep the door speakers, and also have the dash speakers. What about that as well?

Let people do the speakers themselves. If they are that much af a stereo buff that the door panels, and B pillars arent enough, then I am sure they can simply cut a hole in the fiberglass before getting it upholstered.

If you start asking people about what size and stuff to put it, you will get every different answer you can think of. Make it basic, this install will take a lot of fabrication anyways, so if they can do this install, they can cut holes for speakers.

Thats my 2 cents anyways.

Edited: Cause I can't spell upholstered.. is that right?

[This message has been edited by soup (edited 11-19-2002).]

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #167, 11-19-2002 09:46 AM
      The filler piece that I made in not wide enough to use even the stock 4x10 speakers. My Firebird dash is fastened to the windshield flange lip and is only about 4-5" wide in the edges. You could cut a hole in that area but you'd need to add additional support to reduce the risk of breaking the filler during installation or removal. Making dash speaker placement even more difficult is my filler piece is not flat. There is a bulge behind the gauge housing tht smooths the transition from the dash to the bottom of the windshield.

I am putting 5 1/4" speakers in the doors because, for now, I'm not using the Firebird speaker housing and the 6 1/2" speakers were too deep to mount flush. I can upgrade later if I can adapt the Firebitd speaker housings but I may wait until I have a plan. Remember, I'm remaking the Fiero door panels to look simular to the Firebird but not exactly.

I have toyed with the idea of placing 3" mid range speakers in the corners of the filler panel. The 5 1/4" speakers are modular so another idea is to place the tweeters up on the filler or, if there is enough room, on the a-piller trim.

I'm starting the dash conversion this weekend so more details will be revealed soon. I can tell you that I now have a working Firebird environmental control panel -- so no more push buttons for me -- and will soon have a working Firebird headlight switch as well.

I'll keep you posted,
Roy


stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #168, 11-19-2002 09:53 AM
      I've found a local Ontario Yard that's got a few 4th Gen donors, however, if they charge anymore then a few hundred i'm afraid I don't have the cash flow for it at this point in time. I think that this looks awesome and that I think it deserves it's own !webpage! so that idoits like myself don't get lost 1/2 through the conversion and go NUTS!.


This thread ROCKS! and anyone who wants 10MB of rogers space...e-mail me...we'll make it happen!


Keep it up!



JMunilla87GT (jmunilla@nc.rr.com) MSG #169, 11-19-2002 11:02 AM
      it's tight but it isn't horrible. As long as you don't pinch your fingers when shifting it is ok

edit: I was talking about the pic on page 4 of the shifter

[This message has been edited by JMunilla87GT (edited 11-19-2002).]

jscott1 MSG #170, 11-19-2002 02:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by OH10fiero:

Now I could always keep the door speakers, and also have the dash speakers. What about that as well?

I have been trying to figure out why you would want to keep the dash speakers? If the goal is to modernize the interior then dash speakers are definietly out of style.

Conventional wisdom is that the doors are the best place for imaging reasons. Tweeters can be up high like on the A pillar or as in the Firebird panel still on the door but up firing. Notice that I have dual tweeters, (on the main speakers and in the panel) That may be why my speakers sound better than I expected.

If the reason you want dash speakers is because you don't want to run the wires to the doors, then I say that you will be running wires anyway, what's another pair?

Lastly I have something else in mind for the spot on the driver's side dash, and I can't tell you what it is, but it's initials are H.U.D.

- Jonathan (JScott1)

KlaX (klax19@yahoo.com) MSG #171, 11-19-2002 02:31 PM
      Pontiac Bonneville's had H.U.D.s in them from like 92-02+, see if you can find one at a junkyard, I know the earlier 90s models just had the speed and the later ones tell them radio station and what not, I think early 90s would be cheaper and easier.

DaRkLoRD (chaosproject@gmail.com) MSG #172, 11-19-2002 02:39 PM
      I have web space available too, on www.fieroproject.com



swanthog (swanthog@gmail.com) MSG #173, 11-19-2002 03:13 PM
      Do you have a grille for those door speakers? I'd be worried about a careless passenger kicking the speakers in. Careless people are always smacking my door panels with their dirty feet!

Larry S.

thatguyfubu MSG #174, 11-19-2002 03:59 PM
      The 97+ Grand Prixs also have the HUD. Has anyone checked to see if that one will work. That dash with the 3800 SC would be pretty nice since it will have the boost guage designed for that engine.

Keep up the great work guys That firbird dash looks like it belongs there. Can't wait until spring to try this myself.

BTW. I have an 84 4speed. If you guy don't get any pictures I can try and get one over the weekend. I think that the bend in the 84 shifter it would fit perfect.

jscott1 MSG #175, 11-19-2002 05:23 PM
      Swanthog - My speakers do have grills on them. From the angle that they were photographed they appear transparent.

Klax - I am looking into the Bonneville HUD as part of phase II for my project.

thatguyfubu - If you have any pics of the '84 shifter I would like to see them. Especially if you have a shot that shows the comparison between 84 and later years.

GTFiero1 (fierogt5speed@aol.com) MSG #176, 11-19-2002 05:38 PM
      ahhhh man that dash looks great. I hope somebody come up with an adaptor kit so one can just but the dash and door panels and consol from a yard and but the kit and put it in. Im definatley doing this whan i have the money



OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #177, 11-19-2002 10:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GTFiero1:

ahhhh man that dash looks great. I hope somebody come up with an adaptor kit so one can just but the dash and door panels and consol from a yard and but the kit and put it in. Im definatley doing this whan i have the money

I'm working on that as we speek

As I had said before, since I ended up with a dash that is not going to be installed in my car, I have the freedom to really tear into it and see what changes can be made for our cars. What I need from everyone is thier comments on what you have seen from jscott and mrfixit, let me know what you like and dislike, and why. I will be doing most of my work on this project after the holidays since i work retail, and the season for not having a life is at hand, after the new year I will be able to get down to business and work on gettting a kit together for this conversion.

Mr.T MSG #178, 11-20-2002 12:32 AM
      that shifter looks like it has plenty of room, but would the dash fit with an auto trans?

jscott1 MSG #179, 11-20-2002 12:56 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mr.T:

that shifter looks like it has plenty of room, but would the dash fit with an auto trans?

That's a good question. I think the auto shifter goes more forward than the manual.

I have a manual shift console in my coupe (which is an auto) and I had to notch the boot ring by about a half inch to allow the shifter to go into "park".

It may be that autos that get converted to "Trans Fieros" will need the dash mounted more forward than what I have done similar to what Mrfixit58 (Roy) did.

Roy can provide more details of what he did to get the more forward mounting, but basically it involves cuting the supports for the steering column.



Fiero_Tim (timmy48@hotmail.com) MSG #180, 11-20-2002 08:10 AM
      Is it just me, or did anyone else notice the MAJOR similarities between the Russian Pyrahna and the Trans Am (I think) door skins?
Trans Am

Pyrahna



FIERORICE MSG #181, 11-20-2002 08:26 AM
      Prolly used Fbird parts - its evident that the door handle/window controls and speaker holes are the same -maybe fabricated them onto a new door or made a whole new one and used these in the holes - but yes very similar as the whole dash is (esp the center consol)

Ricky



jscott1 MSG #182, 11-20-2002 05:52 PM
      The pyranha has been my inspiration from day one. I too noticed the similarity between it and Trans Am dash and panels and realized I could get a Pyranha like interior just by using F-body parts.

jscott1 MSG #183, 11-21-2002 01:06 AM
      There is a person on eBay who is parting out a '94 Firebird.
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=vernsplace4parts

He has already listed a few "good" parts like the cluster. I sent him an email and he responded that any part on the car is for sale. He has not listed the dash or door panels yet. If anyone is interested I would suggest making him an offer.

jelly2m8 (acook1@bwr.eastlink.ca) MSG #184, 11-21-2002 01:51 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

A short shifter with an angle on it would be better...does anyone have a picture of the '84 shifter? it might be better

I'll try to remember to take my camera to the shop tomorrow.

PM me your mailing addy, and I'll send one your way if you want to play with one.

Don't want nothing for it, I have a bunch of them taking up space.




87FieroGTx (jeremeyallen@gmail.com) MSG #185, 11-21-2002 12:13 PM
      I wonder what just the center consol would look like in a stock Fiero interior.

thatguyfubu MSG #186, 11-21-2002 01:33 PM
      There is an 84 shifter for sale on ebay with a pic of it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1872921985

I hope this helps if not I will try to get a pic this weekend but I can't promise anything.

jelly2m8 (acook1@bwr.eastlink.ca) MSG #187, 11-21-2002 02:28 PM
      Heres the 84 shifter next to a 5 spd shifter.
The 84 shifter is in the foreground



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #188, 11-21-2002 03:22 PM
      Although the bend in the 84 shifter is much more ratical than the 5-speed, the off-set looks the same. With them laying parallel, look at the distance between the bottom of the shifters and compare it to the distance at the top. It's almost, if not exactly, the same.

Roy

AgaricX (skyline@infinissan.com) MSG #189, 11-21-2002 03:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 87FieroGTx:

I wonder what just the center consol would look like in a stock Fiero interior.

Very out of place....

jscott1 MSG #190, 11-21-2002 04:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Although the bend in the 84 shifter is much more ratical than the 5-speed, the off-set looks the same. With them laying parallel, look at the distance between the bottom of the shifters and compare it to the distance at the top. It's almost, if not exactly, the same.

Roy

I don't know Roy, from the pic above the '84 appears shorter. Even if it's not, the vertical portion appears longer and it could be cut and rethreaded. I would like to try the 84 shifter just to see if it works better.



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #191, 11-21-2002 04:54 PM
      Yea, it does look about 3/4" shorter. But the offset looks simular. If your trying to reposition the shifter, have you considered haveing it heated and bent?

Roy

jelly2m8 (acook1@bwr.eastlink.ca) MSG #192, 11-21-2002 05:51 PM
      The 84 shifter is definetly shorter by almost an inch. Hard to tell on the angle of my picture.

mrfixit is right, after examining them side by side today, the off set is pretty close. I do believe the 84 has a little more offset, but it is close.

jscott1, I will send you a stock 84 shifter, and also I can make one with what ever offset, and heigth that you want.

It will be treaded on the end. What I do is cut the weld holding the shaft to the pivot assembly, and do the shortning / reworking of shape on that end, then reweld it and paint so that it looks stock.

I'd like to do one for your car, to see if we can figure out something more asthetically (sp) pleasing.

Maybe even angle the upper portion of the shifter ahead, so that it doesn't lay back so far when in 2nd, 4th & R.

I really like the F-body interior. I just fear that I do not have the motovation to do one myself.

OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #193, 11-21-2002 11:01 PM
      I was thinking of either heating and then bending the shifter, or possibly seeing how much it would cost at my local machine shop to have a custom shift arm made, and then weld it in. Any thoughts on that.

jscott1 MSG #194, 11-21-2002 11:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jelly2m8:

The 84 shifter is definetly shorter by almost an inch. Hard to tell on the angle of my picture.

mrfixit is right, after examining them side by side today, the off set is pretty close. I do believe the 84 has a little more offset, but it is close.

jscott1, I will send you a stock 84 shifter, and also I can make one with what ever offset, and heigth that you want.

It will be treaded on the end. What I do is cut the weld holding the shaft to the pivot assembly, and do the shortning / reworking of shape on that end, then reweld it and paint so that it looks stock.

I'd like to do one for your car, to see if we can figure out something more asthetically (sp) pleasing.

Maybe even angle the upper portion of the shifter ahead, so that it doesn't lay back so far when in 2nd, 4th & R.

I really like the F-body interior. I just fear that I do not have the motovation to do one myself.

Jelly2M8 - The offset on the stock shifter isn't terrible, it's just too tall for my taste. I think the 84 will work about the same but look a lot better.

If you were to make a custom one I would suggest making it about an inch shorter than the 84 and maybe an inch more offset to the left. I think that would be about perfect. I'll know for sure when I get everything bolted down.

Mrfixit58 (Roy) is about to convert his 87GT in a weekend. This is after months of preparation though. If there were a kit I expect anyone could convert their car in a weekend starting from scratch. I think that would make this swap a no-brainer for everyone except the pure stock people.

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #195, 11-22-2002 09:22 PM
      Well, I wanted to update everyone who is following this thread but PIP isn't working. I keep getting an "Acces Denied" message.

I'll try later.

Roy



Jake_Dragon MSG #196, 11-22-2002 09:57 PM
     
Mines working
Try a new profile
Start PIP by choosing it from the Start Menu

Click the New button

In the Automatic Configuration Field, type: http://www.fiero.nl/fieroforum.pip

Click the Get button

 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Well, I wanted to update everyone who is following this thread but PIP isn't working. I keep getting an "Acces Denied" message.

I'll try later.

Roy

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 11-22-2002).]

JanusSolSumnus (janus@csbadboyz.net) MSG #197, 11-22-2002 10:37 PM
      I've been following this thread, hence my bumping it once and awhile.

Here is a reliable alternative, I've used it before and I like it. Now I have my own webspace and dont need it though.
http://www.theforumisdown.com/upload/upload.php


soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #198, 11-23-2002 05:33 PM
      bump

stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #199, 11-23-2002 07:11 PM
      TEST

 
quote
Originally posted by JanusSolSumnus:

I've been following this thread, hence my bumping it once and awhile.

Here is a reliable alternative, I've used it before and I like it. Now I have my own webspace and dont need it though.
http://www.theforumisdown.com/upload/upload.php



Smoooooth GT MSG #200, 11-23-2002 08:17 PM
     

jscott1 MSG #201, 11-23-2002 08:24 PM
      PIP Test

Seems to be working now!!

C'mon Roy let's see some progress. I'm stuck at this phase...I need some encouragement.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-23-2002).]

AgaricX (skyline@infinissan.com) MSG #202, 11-23-2002 09:03 PM
      Oh-My-LORD that looks SO awesome!

I've always been opposed to F-Bodys becasue thay're EVERYWHERE here...

But I WANT THAT! Kit or no kit, I'm going to do it! (Preferrably no kit so it will be more unique )



JanusSolSumnus (janus@csbadboyz.net) MSG #203, 11-24-2002 02:02 PM
      Hmm, thats wierd, sorry, it was worth a shot.

stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #204, 11-24-2002 05:26 PM
      That is the most good looking Interior EVER. It's probably (from what i've read) a little more expensive then the Pirhana Interior but i think it looks better...

Beautyful work!

Keep it up guys!

...i still want to see a website (lol)



87FieroGTx (jeremeyallen@gmail.com) MSG #205, 11-24-2002 06:58 PM
      !!!!!!!!

soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #206, 11-24-2002 07:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by stevenrossi:

...i still want to see a website (lol)

I am still MORE than willing to make it.

MrFixit? lol.. don't worry no pressure. Whenever you are ready.

stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #207, 11-24-2002 07:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by soup:

I am still MORE than willing to make it.

MrFixit? lol.. don't worry no pressure. Whenever you are ready.


THEN whats the problem/hold up here? LOL

Lets make it happen!



jscott1 MSG #208, 11-24-2002 09:09 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by stevenrossi:

That is the most good looking Interior EVER. It's probably (from what i've read) a little more expensive then the Pirhana Interior but i think it looks better...

Beautyful work!

Keep it up guys!

...i still want to see a website (lol)

Thanks for the compliment. I know Mrfixit58 (Roy) and I have been frantically trying to get our cars finished. Not much time to help with the website. The good news is that we have both taken hundreds of pictures, taken notes, and have drawings for the wiring harnesses and so on. So eventually we can pass on what we have learned.

As for the cost, I know Roy has invested about $500 in the basic F-body swap, mainly getting parts at the bone yard. Me about twice that, because I have bought all my stuff off the internet and absorbed the shipping costs.

So I think you can get an F-body interior significantly cheaper than a Pyranha, (assuming you could even buy one at any price). If I were to do this again I would find someone parting out a Firebird and buy the whole thing at once. I'm sure it would be much more cost effective.


JanusSolSumnus (janus@csbadboyz.net) MSG #209, 11-24-2002 09:37 PM
      Could you maybe e-mail those drawings/images?

If they are not already in "schematic" form I can try and make them that way.

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #210, 11-24-2002 10:46 PM
      OK guys. It's time for a little update. Sorry for the delay but I've been having problems with PIP. The picture below was at the end of Friday evening. I started stripping the interior at 9:00 AM. That picture was taken at about 5:30 PM. In the shot, the dash, a-pillar trim (unpainted) and homemade dash filler is installed.

Yesterday I installed the console but today I only had time to install the headlight switch. Tomorrow will be another big work day. I update you with some more pictures then.



FieroBUZZ MSG #211, 11-25-2002 09:13 PM
      Awesome thread guys! Looks like everyone has a new winter project.

Here is an 84 shifter with the top cut off and the knob on with a set screw. You could grind the weld and make the bend face directly back from the dash. I think the best would be to grind off the post and bend one to whatever shape you like and reweld it on. Would not have to be a Fiero lever so you can dump the thick threaded end.



jelly2m8 (acook1@bwr.eastlink.ca) MSG #212, 11-25-2002 10:19 PM
      Hers a pic with the 2 shifters I have for jscott1.

The left is a modded 84, 1 inch shorter, with a 1 inch more placement to the left.

The second is a stock 84 shifter which he will also get.

The third is a stock 5 spd shifter for comparison.


jscott1 MSG #213, 11-26-2002 03:09 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jelly2m8:

Hers a pic with the 2 shifters I have for jscott1.

The left is a modded 84, 1 inch shorter, with a 1 inch more placement to the left.

The second is a stock 84 shifter which he will also get.

The third is a stock 5 spd shifter for comparison.

Jelly2m8 is doing an awesome job with the shifter. For those who do the Firebird swap and don't want to cut metal to move the dash forward this could be the ticket. Thanks!!

I am making progress but I am in the midst of my color change (Beechwood to gray/black)

I have all the parts ready to go but it's looking like I will be ready for a test drive by the end of the holiday weekend.

At least the carpet and seatbelts are in. It's not new carpet, (I had to cut costs somewhere) but it looks better in person than this picture would suggest.

Next the trim and then the console will be ready to go back in. Then we'll see if the modified 84 is the right angle or not.


- Joanthan (JScott1)

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-26-2002).]

FieroBUZZ MSG #214, 11-26-2002 10:01 AM
      I think you should look at something like this. Shorter with the offset or bend straight back rather than to the left like a stock 84.


mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #215, 11-26-2002 05:16 PM
      For those of you who are following my progress... Here's a shot from the left side. Compare this picture with those of Jonathan's (jscott1) car and you'll see how much farther back I was able to get the dash.

The next two pictures are of the sides of the tunnel. The black lines are the cut lines. This meatal was removed in order the get the console to fit under the dash, remain level and have an acceptible arm rest height.

I still have a lot of details to complete before I can reinstall the carpet and seats. But just getting it to this point required about 32 hours of work... and keep in mind that the dash filler and tunnel cover was already done and the console was already trimmed. This is a MAJOR project.

Another thing that I've noticed is that the stock door panels will not work. The panels push the corners of the dash enough to see it move. I've already started modifing a set but I want to complet the dash and console first. More on that later.

Roy


jelly2m8 (acook1@bwr.eastlink.ca) MSG #216, 11-26-2002 07:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroBUZZ:

I think you should look at something like this. Shorter with the offset or bend straight back rather than to the left like a stock 84.

I am building a V8 Fiero for a customer and he sent me one just like that.

The angle to the left makes it quite awkward as the knob does not sit naturally in your hand. after driving this car with the shifter in it, I find it exerts alot of pressure on the wrist while shifting into 5th and reverse.
It is an odd feeling because the shifter feels a certain way in the first 4 gears, but take on a different charastic in the other 2 gears.

To each their own though.

I built jscott1's to his spec, while retaining the tread on the end so that he can screw on his shift knob.



wpgfiero (cjsvl@shaw.ca) MSG #217, 11-26-2002 10:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

To hide that area, I built a cover out of fiberglass. I combined it with a cover for the portion of the tunnel that the Firebird console won't cover. I made the form out o stryrofoam and covered it with masking tape as a barrier between the foam and the resin. When set, the foam was removed and the tape just peeled off. The fiberglass won't stick to masking tape.

Hope this helps,
Roy

yah, that helps, it answered my question. but now you got me wondering what's gonna cover the fiberglass? are you gonna put vinyl or something over it?

jscott1 MSG #218, 11-27-2002 08:28 AM
      Last time I talked to him about it, Mrfixit58 (Roy) had planned to sand it smooth and paint it body color, similar to a C5 Corvette Convertible.

I am still planning to put a much shortened version of the stock console back in place over the computer, (which I have relocated back to the stock location) I haven't done this yet so I'm not sure it will work or not.

Jonathan (JScott1)




soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #219, 11-28-2002 06:09 AM
      Wow, bump, thanks guys, you have no idea how awesome this is of you.

jscott1 MSG #220, 11-28-2002 09:24 PM
      I just took the worlds's first Trans Fiero for a test drive!!

It's far from finished, but I have installed all the trim and hence the seats and seat belts. I just set the stock console in for the test drive, but after I get Jelly's short shifter I will install the firebird console. My dash is still "floating" until I get all the parts in then I will bolt everything down. When I get everything finished I'll install the trim plate over the gauges.

My crappy digital camera can't do justice to how it really looks but it will have to do for now.



stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #221, 11-28-2002 10:32 PM
     



Kelvin Vivian (no_18@yahoo.com) MSG #222, 11-29-2002 04:50 AM
      JScott!

Awesome job... I had to peek in to this thread and see what all the hub-bub was about, and now I see...

You've found the best way to update a Fiero's interior.

kv



JanusSolSumnus (janus@csbadboyz.net) MSG #223, 11-29-2002 12:59 PM
      JScott, did you take any pictures of the mounts you made? It might make it easier for others to build them if they had a referance to go by.

BTW, Awsome man, and the Fiero console doesnt look too bad with the new dash in actuallity.

jscott1 MSG #224, 11-29-2002 01:26 PM
      Kelvin -Thanks for the kind words. When I declare this project complete I am going to list all the forum members who helped me, and you have to be high on the list. There is quite a bit of difference between what I have now and a stock beechwood interior. Not that there's anything wrong with beechwood, just not my preference.

JanusSolSumnus - I haven't taken any pics of the mounting brackets yet. My whole dash is being held in with one bolt right now. After I get the center console installed I will tweek everything into postion and bolt it down. I will take pics then. Also I have a new digital camera on order so those pics will be a lot better.

My original plan was to use the stock console, until I saw Mrfixit58's (Roy's) Firebird console. I don't think the stock one looks bad either, and it's a whole lot easier to install. The firebird console is the most difficult part of the swap because it absolutely requires metal to be removed and complicates the shifter configuration.

I think I'm taking a day off from the garage today but I should have some more progress to show after Saturday.

Thanks for the encouragement everybody. Can't wait to see what Roy has done over the last 24 hours!

- Jonathan (JScott1)


[edited for spelling]

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-29-2002).]

wpgfiero (cjsvl@shaw.ca) MSG #225, 11-29-2002 01:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Last time I talked to him about it, Mrfixit58 (Roy) had planned to sand it smooth and paint it body color, similar to a C5 Corvette Convertible.

I am still planning to put a much shortened version of the stock console back in place over the computer, (which I have relocated back to the stock location) I haven't done this yet so I'm not sure it will work or not.

Jonathan (JScott1)

I think It'd be cool if since you have to make that fiberglass thing there anyway you made a custom fiberglass 10" sub box outta it, that'd be really cool. but it's lookin great!

AznFiero MSG #226, 11-29-2002 06:08 PM
      Once you guys are done, please put this on a website with how everything was done!

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #227, 11-29-2002 08:52 PM
      Hey guys,

I didn't get to work on the interior conversion today. Instead, I wnet to the Daytona Turke Rod Run & Swap meet. We got there about 7:00 AM and left about 4:00 PM. We never stopped walking and didn't even get through the swap meet nevermind the car corral or the display cars. I only saw thre Fiero related items: two spoilers and a 2M4 for sale. Major score of the day... a MAC phnumatic (sp?) buffer with pad for $10 and it works GREAT.

Anyway, my dash is just about complete. All I really need to do is to modify the right side bracket to clear my factory sub-woofer and install a couple of speed nuts and it's done.

The console is complete except for the custom tunnel/computer cover. I still need to smooth and paint it. I hope to have the above completed by this weekend but time is flying by.

Next on the project list are the door panels. As I mentioned before, I'm taking a different route than Jonathan in that I'm re-designing the Fiero panels to mimick the Firebird's. I've already flattened the panels and am in the process of recessing the area around the edge of the dash. I'll post pictures of the process when ever I figure it out.

Roy

WMac MSG #228, 11-30-2002 06:22 PM
      Just a friendly Bump

jscott1 MSG #229, 11-30-2002 07:00 PM
      Even though this is an interior conversion thread, I had my car outside the garage during daylight for the first time in months so while washing the car I thought I would reveal some exterior mods that I have also been working on:


Fuba betaflex D antenna:

Painted mirrors with turn signal indicators

20% window tint

The stock console is still in with masking tape right now until after I replace the shifter and I am still working on the envoronmental controls, but it doesn't look bad at all, in my opinion.

After I declare the interior complete, next on the agenda are some new wheels and then to do something about that solid roof!

Jonathan (JScott1)



Riceburner98 (riceburner98@gmail.com) MSG #230, 11-30-2002 07:35 PM
      First I'd like to say AWESOME job on the interior, the both of you.. I'm keeping it in my mind as an idea if my 3000GT dash doesn't work out.. Especially the door panels.. Love 'em. My question - do you have any "whole car" shots of your car? I have a VW antenna like that and I just can't decide if I want to use it or not, until I see a whole-car shot with it installed.. I'm a long way from starting my dash, just tooo many projects going on at the same time! Gotta get this engine running...!



jscott1 MSG #231, 11-30-2002 07:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Riceburner98:

First I'd like to say AWESOME job on the interior, the both of you.. ... My question - do you have any "whole car" shots of your car? I have a VW antenna like that and I just can't decide if I want to use it or not, until I see a whole-car shot with it installed..

This was the closest I got to a whole car shot with the antenna. It was a pain to install because it's expecting thin sheet metal and not two layers of sheet molded compound and THEN metal underneath it.

But I like the way it looks. I'll try to take a better shot tomorrow and post it.

- Jonathan (JScott1)

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-30-2002).]

stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #232, 11-30-2002 10:00 PM
      I love this THREAD

I'm still soo very interested in this...however, it does look like it's very involved and time consumeing...i'll do it one day...just as soon as i get money to.

boy i can wait for the website for it...wink wink!



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #233, 11-30-2002 10:39 PM
      Well, I hit a big milestone today. I permenantly mounted the dash. It's mounted across the top to the windshield lip in four locations and across the bottom at the corners and in the middle. Just like in the Firebird.

In the shots, you can see that I've installed the headlight switch and control panel. They BOTH work.

The last shot shows the console installed but without the shifter cover (actually it's just sitting there) and the stock shifter. I put the selector in first gear so you could see the distance from the dash.

Tomorrow I work on the console and tunnel cover.





Ambush (jbacciani@vinyloptions.com) MSG #234, 12-01-2002 12:00 AM
      I want one, have you fiqured out how much?

Sourmug MSG #235, 12-01-2002 12:06 AM
      mrfixit58:

Could you take a picture of your dash from the front of the car through the windshield? I'm curious how the filler pieces look.

Thanks
Sour



JanusSolSumnus (janus@csbadboyz.net) MSG #236, 12-01-2002 12:43 AM
      Just coming back from a format.

Wow, you guys have done amazing jobs. Both have come along greatly and looks just as good.

What I plan to do will be more complicated but as far as electronics should be simpler. I plan to use a 3800SC genII with a 98'-00' interior(dash, cluster, console, electronics). I want to make the PCM easily accessable so I might try to make a seperated portion of the console and mount it there. The PCM for the 3800SC genII is much smaller than the Fiero one so I think it will work nicely.

Still working on the ownership of a 86' GT, all I need it to get this contract job and I'll be set.

Maybe I can help you guys with the webspace and site, if and when your ready.

Roy, I never knew how close we were, I missed out on Turkey Run unforunately.



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #237, 12-02-2002 12:00 PM
      A few people have asked me how I made the Firebird control panel work with the Fiero electric dampener system. While examining the Fiero system in the factory service manual I noticed that they represent the control panel as a rotary switch. That got me thinking so I took apart a control panel and noticed that the board has no electronic components, only two thermistors and switches. The rest is just circuit traces. The thermistors are just current limiting devices, like a breaker, in the event that the baffle door get jammed.

Using the service manuals I decided to write down, on one sheet of paper, all the different layers of switching. I found five and the drawing below is how it lays out.

To make it work I found a 5-layer 12-position rotary switch and used the diagram below as my guide. I removed the thermistors from the Fiero control panel board and installed them as shown. When tested, it performed just as the switches do.

I hope this helps,




MinnGreenGT (minngreengt@gmail.com) MSG #238, 12-02-2002 12:10 PM
      I just wanted to pipe in and let you guys know that the work you're doing is absolutely awsome. I can hardly wait to see a few completely finished dashes (preferably in person).

Keep up the awsome work guys! It's great to seem some real innovation happening around here.



rynelson85 (rynelson85@yahoo.com) MSG #239, 12-02-2002 04:03 PM
      I'm with everyone else here...this is amazing work! Keep us updated on progress too!
-Ryan



jscott1 MSG #240, 12-02-2002 04:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

A few people have asked me how I made the Firebird control panel work with the Fiero electric dampener system...

To make it work I found a 5-layer 12-position rotary switch and used the diagram below as my guide. I removed the thermistors from the Fiero control panel board and installed them as shown. When tested, it performed just as the switches do.

I hope this helps,


Roy has done an excellent job with the Firebird Rotary control. This was another area I had planned on just doing the stock control until I saw his idea. However, from there I diverged a bit.

I am working on a one layer, 6 position switch that will trigger the proper response though a series of relays. The main reason I went that route is that a 6 position switch was the only rotary switch I could find at the Electronics Parts Outlet where I shop.

Also I am planning to have a separate A/C Compressor button like some GM and virtually all foreign cars have. That way I can get cold air on my feet, or bi-level without the A/C running.

Of course Roy's is installed and working and mine is still under construction so we'll see if all that works as planned.

Jonathan (JScott1)




mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #241, 12-03-2002 12:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sourmug:

mrfixit58:

Could you take a picture of your dash from the front of the car through the windshield? I'm curious how the filler pieces look.

Thanks
Sour

Sorry it took so long for me to respond to your request but the pictures you asked for are below. Keep in mind that these pictures were taken before the screens were installed. I now have the screens installed and will be painting the filler this weekend (I hope).


More pictures later,




carpetviper (viper05315@aol.com) MSG #242, 12-03-2002 04:31 PM
      First off, I want to let you two know how great I think that dash looks in the fiero. It looks devilishly good. hehe. Just reading through these pages has convinced me that I want one in my car, I just have no idea how I'd do it. Please keep us up to date on the awesome project.



Ambush (jbacciani@vinyloptions.com) MSG #243, 12-03-2002 10:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by carpetviper:

I just have no idea how I'd do it. Please keep us up to date on the awesome project.

DITO, Only I would rather just buy it from you. Hit me up at Jbacciani@hotmail.com I want to buy one .


OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #244, 12-04-2002 12:37 AM
      Hey guys, did I miss anything while I was gone?????????

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #245, 12-04-2002 01:48 PM
      I just thought I'd give a little update (and a free bump ) as to the progress of my dash project. Yesterday, I bought a pint of paint for the tunnel/computr cover. As jscott1 mentioned, instead of vinyl, I'm painting it the same color as the body to bring a little color into an otherwise drab gray interior. The thought is to make it simular to the C5. I hope to finish up the bodywork on it this Friday and have the painting completed before Sunday.

Today, I order the material I need to recover the door panels. Again, as mentioned before I'm covering the Fiero panels to mimick the Firebird panels. The material and padding is going to cost me about $60 for both doors. I spoke with Mr Mike and he gave me some pointers on how the glue and shape the closed cell foam. Hopefully, the door panels will turn out as nice as the rest of the interior


Later,
Roy


Ambush (jbacciani@vinyloptions.com) MSG #246, 12-04-2002 10:55 PM
      OK. Since I can't buy one, tell me this....
Can I use the door panel from a 94 camero Z28? Aren't they both the same?


jscott1 MSG #247, 12-05-2002 12:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Ambush:

OK. Since I can't buy one, tell me this....
Can I use the door panel from a 94 camero Z28? Aren't they both the same?

Prior to '97 the Camaro and Firebird had distinctly different interiors. For '97 up to 2002 they were very similar. Your guess is as good as mine if a '94 Camaro interior will mount up like a Firebird. My suggestion is to find a Firebird or '97 or newer Camaro interior.

New megapixel camera shots of current state...Firebird center console still not installed, so don't hate me

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 12-05-2002).]

Sourmug MSG #248, 12-05-2002 02:12 AM
      Thanks for the pics. It looks great!

Sour

Smoooooth GT MSG #249, 12-05-2002 02:23 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by OH10fiero:

Hey guys, did I miss anything while I was gone?????????

You were gone..??? J/K LMAO!!
Well, they're getting alot closer to completion....
Smooth!!



Manic Mechanic (mechanic@iastate.edu) MSG #250, 12-05-2002 02:43 AM
      Just going slightly off-topic here, but what camera did you get? I'm in the market for one and those pics look pretty good.

jelly2m8 (acook1@bwr.eastlink.ca) MSG #251, 12-05-2002 03:01 AM
      Jonathan, I found this box laying in my shop on monday with your name and addy on it.

I had the shifters packed, and forgot about them at that point.

I did take the box and sent it airmail on monday, so hopefully it will be there within a week.

jscott1 MSG #252, 12-05-2002 04:57 AM
      Jelly2m8 - Thanks for getting the shifters out. I am waiting until I change shifters to put in the Firebird Console.
Your help has been greatly appreciated.

Manic Mechanic - I got a Kodak DX3600. "only" 2.2 megapixels and by today's standards that's kind of low, but way better than what I had. The pics I just took were at the med resolution, and downsized to fit Cliff's 640 pixel wide limit on PIP. Still, I think the pics came out pretty good.


mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #253, 12-05-2002 09:42 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Ambush:

OK. Since I can't buy one, tell me this....
Can I use the door panel from a 94 camero Z28? Aren't they both the same?

I'll take a crack at this question. No. they are not the same. The early 90s version of the Camaro and Firebird door panels are drastically different. Cosmetically, the armrest on the Camaro extends all the way to the end of the door panel whereas the Firebird panel stops short and the molding make it apear the the armrest fades into the panel. By comparison, it appears that it would match up to either the Firebird or Camaro dash. There may also be some color variations. Electrically, they use different power window and mirror switches and switch plugs.

I can't use PIP here at work because of a firewall but when I go home for lunch, I'll post a picture of the Camaro door panels for your comparison.

Roy

Ambush (jbacciani@vinyloptions.com) MSG #254, 12-05-2002 11:18 AM
      OK, the dashes look different, but will they mount the same? I got this deal waiting on me and if it fits, I don't want to pass it up. But if it doesn't fit I don't want to waste my money. nawameeean

Smoooooth GT MSG #255, 12-05-2002 11:35 AM
      jscott:
Hey buddy, it's looking great, I just wanted to ask you.... What part of Houston do you live?? I grew up in Bellaire and used to live in LaPorte and work in Pasadena. I'm just curious. lol If you see this Cheever, answer the question also please....

Smooth!!



LT-5Fiero (lilmac@sc.rr.com) MSG #256, 12-05-2002 11:44 AM
      If you ask me, this 97 Z28 on Ebay right now, which has LOTS of pictures, looks identitcal to your dash, of course the door panels differ:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1874128646



And here is a 97 Firebird interior.. looks similar yet again:

Maybe I'm just looking at it too generally.



AznFiero MSG #257, 12-05-2002 12:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
Manic Mechanic - I got a Kodak DX3600. "only" 2.2 megapixels and by today's standards that's kind of low, but way better than what I had. The pics I just took were at the med resolution, and downsized to fit Cliff's 640 pixel wide limit on PIP. Still, I think the pics came out pretty good.

Anything with over 2 megapixels is good. My walmart camera only has 640x480. The quality is horrendous.



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #258, 12-05-2002 12:16 PM
      Here is a shot of the Camaro door panels. Of course they can work but, cosmetically, I like the Firebird door panels better. Of course, like the Camaro dash will work just as well as the Firebird.

Roy

Editted because I can't type.

[This message has been edited by mrfixit58 (edited 12-05-2002).]

jscott1 MSG #259, 12-05-2002 01:44 PM
      Ambush - I have not taken a Camaro dash apart so I couldn't tell you if it mounts the same as a Firebird or not, but if I were a betting man I would say that it probably does. If you have a deal on a Camaro dash and you like the way it looks then I say go for it.

Smooth - I actually live in Pearland, but I can throw a rock and it lands in Houston. Are you planning on coming to the Galveston event? I'd like to bring the Trans Fiero if I can get some of the wrinkles smooothed out by then, (pun intended)

LT-5Fiero - The Camaro interior is very similar to the Firebird. I prefer the pontiac look though. The Camaro gauges will light up white and blue, (there is no red) personally I wouldn't want that in a Fiero.

Also if you get the gauges for the V8 you will have to modify the tach. I haven't a clue how to do that, I used gauges from a 3800 V6 Firebird so they worked right automatically. (Trivia note - I am using the 4000 PPM square wave output to the electrohydraulic power steering to drive the Firebird Speedometer.)

AznFiero - I say "only" 2.2 megapixels because that is plenty for posting pics to the web. My old camera was also 640 x 480 and it's like night and day the difference.

Mrfixit58 - I agree with you that cosmetically the Camaro door panels don't look as nice. Also the Firebird panels have integrated tweeters in them, Camaro does not. But it's up to the individual to decide which they prefer.

Haagster MSG #260, 12-06-2002 07:01 AM
      Free bump...

87gt guy (fircer@aol.com) MSG #261, 12-07-2002 08:54 AM
      Hey Roy, thanks for the e-mail. Man.... this firebird inteior is SWEEET! I really like the door panels. Overall, about how much was the total cost?



Fierokid87 (scotts_fiero@juno.com) MSG #262, 12-07-2002 11:29 AM
      this is starting to look interesting. How do i addapt the firbird door panels? and how does the dash fit? is the dash the same width?



sailordude (sailordude@hotmail.com) MSG #263, 12-07-2002 02:01 PM
      Excellent work guys!!! this is a excellent mod for our out of date interior.

any new pictures of your progress?

Thanks again.

Darren

DaRkLoRD (chaosproject@gmail.com) MSG #264, 12-07-2002 02:24 PM
      how are the door panels coming along? I'd love to see how those are/were finished off!



jscott1 MSG #265, 12-07-2002 02:31 PM
      87gt guy - Roy has said that the total cost of his conversion is in the $200 - $300 dollar range. Incredibly cheap. His strategy has been to search the boneyards and get the best possible price for the Firebird Items. I have invested somewhere in the $1000 range mainly because I have used ebay and the internet for my source of parts. More convenient, but I have to pay shipping and sometimes inflated prices.

Fierokid87 - The door panels are one of the trickier areas. I chose to use Firebird panels and then trim off the front and rear portions and then adapt them to the Fiero. This also involves new door handles, window and door lock switches, and speakers. It also replaces the inner dew wipes.

What I haven't done yet is to make the ends "pretty" where I cut them off. A lot of people are concerned about that but I am confident I can make it work.

Roy decided to take a different path and use the Fiero door panel and smooth it out and attach the firebird handle and latch. Then cover it with vinyl. That sounded like more work to me, but his results should be about the same or better than mine.

The dash fits within the Fiero to within an inch or two. There is some tweaking that has to be done to make it perfect. If you don't want to cut metal it will stick out about 3 to 4 inches more than the Fiero dash, (the jscott position) if you cut the steering column support and reposition the whole thing you can get the dash farther back (the Roy position). There are pros and cons to each method, you have to decide which is better. You can look at the pictures to judge which looks better to you.

Sailordude - The panel pics were just taken 5 minutes ago. (I just noticed the clock was set wrong on my camera) I am presently working on the center console and environmental controls so I haven't a new picture to show of that yet. The panels are presently held in place by screws which will either be covered or I will choose nicer looking exposed fasteners.

Jonathan (JScott1)

[edited for clarity]

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 12-07-2002).]

Texas87GT (tomasj7@gmail.com) MSG #266, 12-07-2002 11:31 PM
      Looking really sweet..just bought a 2000 firebird and was wondering ..How do the air vents line up? any trimming or repostioning to the firebird air vents..
Keep up the good work.



jscott1 MSG #267, 12-07-2002 11:47 PM
      The air vents line up from side to side but the Firebird vents are about 6 inches in front of the Fiero ducts, Also the Firebird vents are round and Fiero ducts are square.

To make the transition from square to round I used flexible ducting, (you can see the white ducts in the pics)

rynelson85 (rynelson85@yahoo.com) MSG #268, 12-08-2002 01:36 AM
      what is that *bump* noise? oh..its me!
-Ryan


jscott1 MSG #269, 12-08-2002 01:49 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by rynelson85:

what is that *bump* noise? oh..its me!
-Ryan

Thanks for the bump...this is not a Fiero, but an example of a show quality 4th gen Firebird interior:




1986GTV8 MSG #270, 12-08-2002 04:13 PM
      Did you both usse "dash fillers" to fix gaps between the dash & windshield?

Can we get a template for those of us who want to do this install?

Both look great.

John



ltlfrari (dave_ellis_@hotmail.com) MSG #271, 12-08-2002 05:17 PM
      Had a quick skim through the thread so I might have missed it if already asked, but it is possible to trim the dash anymore so that it will sit further forward so that the center will not interfere with the gear stick so much, or are ther other obstructions that prevent that?

Otherwise, kudos to you guys for a great effort and lots of info/pics, keep 'em coming for the rest of us who can only drool...

Dave http://www.ltlfrari.com


jscott1 MSG #272, 12-08-2002 08:38 PM
      1986GTV8 - Roy made a custom piece out of fiberglass to fill in the space. I am planning to take the original Firebird piece and trim it to size once I figure out exactly where the dash is going to be placed.

ltlfrari - The dash doesn't really interfere with the shifter too much, but to answer your question, the support for the steering column prevents the dash from going more forward. Roy has cut the support and repositioned the support for the steering column, which allows the dash to be positioned more forward. I didn't want to cut anything so my dash is where it is.

My reshaped shifter should minimize the interference with the dash, if there is any.

- Jonathan (JScott1)



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #273, 12-09-2002 09:39 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Texas87GT:

Looking really sweet..just bought a 2000 firebird and was wondering ..How do the air vents line up? any trimming or repostioning to the firebird air vents..
Keep up the good work.

Texas87GT,

I took a more anal approach to the A/C ducts and modified the center distribution box from the Fiero. I cut the box so it just covered the lower air box then installed 2 -2 1/2" ID PVC couplings on each end. From there I used 3" duct hose to reach the corners. The right corner attached to the back of the vent. The left hose passes through the dash and slides over the vent in the gauge cluster bezel. For the center vent, I used the Firebird center distribution duct and afixed it to the front of the modified Fiero A/C air box. The whole system is mounted inside the dash and comes off with the dash just like the Firebird and Fiero systems. To patch everything together, I used a two-part adheasive from 3M for rigid plastic.

Hope this helps,
Roy


mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #274, 12-09-2002 09:56 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 1986GTV8:

Did you both usse "dash fillers" to fix gaps between the dash & windshield?

Can we get a template for those of us who want to do this install?

Both look great.

John

86GTV8,

If you'll look at the top of the page, you can see pictures of the filler piece I created for this conversion. Providing you with a template would be of limited use since it's not a flat piece. Breifly, to create the piece I made a masking tape bridge between the dash and the front edge of the Fiero dash of which I had cut away all but about a 2" strip along the windshield. Once the bridge was in place, I covered it with two layers of fiberglass and then filed it to level with fiberglass reinforced Bondo. After that, I used regular plastic filler to smooth and shape the final product. I did all this work on a junker (affectionalty called "the Mule") with the windshield removed.

Roy

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #275, 12-09-2002 10:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ltlfrari:

Had a quick skim through the thread so I might have missed it if already asked, but it is possible to trim the dash anymore so that it will sit further forward so that the center will not interfere with the gear stick so much, or are ther other obstructions that prevent that? ...
[/URL]

ltlfrari,

If you'll look closely at the pictures of my dash and compare it to jscott1's, you'll notice that mine sits about 2-3 inches farther back. That is courtisy of a saws-all, busted knuckles, dozens of test fits, lots of sweat, and a mig welder. My dash actually uses the Firebird upper mounting braces to bolt it to the Fiero windshield lip just like the Fiero dash. To get it that far back, I had to remove the steering column "snout" from the steering column support hoop where the front two steering column mounting bolts were located. The hoop itself spans from the tunnel to the driver's side kick panel. To replace these two mounting points, I had to create a steering column bracket that bolts to the column in the stock locating but reaches back to the steering column support hoop where I drilled and installed mounting two bolts. I also had to slit the sides of the support hoop -- parallel to the steering column -- to push the column up into the support hoop about 3/4" in order to center it in the Firebird bezel. The result is the steering wheel now sits about 2" higher than a stock Fiero... which make getting in and out of the car much easier .Additionally, with the Firebird dash in this location, it "feels" stock. Looks great too!

Roy


mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #276, 12-09-2002 12:31 PM
      Here's a few pictures of the new dash and console. Except for a few minor punch-out items, the dash and console are FINISHED!

Comments?

This one is, of course, the door panel in progress. The outline represents where the contrast line will be. I'm thinking charcoal gray like the armrest around the outside with a light gray inthe center.



JanusSolSumnus (janus@csbadboyz.net) MSG #277, 12-09-2002 03:06 PM
      DAMN GUYS! I have finally decided my approach will mix the two together.

-Firebird dash, console and doors
-Roy's mounting style, more complicated, but more space given and the ability to use the Firebird mounts
-JScott style custom short shifter
-All working Firebird controls(HVAC?) and radio
-Firebird airbox and ducts
-Modified Firebird steering wheel with Fiero emblem
-Phirana style console back or Roy's style

Color scheme will be charcoal, light grey, and reserved usage of black.

Looking at it, I couldnt smoothly do what I would want to do, I would need like 3-4 more inches of space between the back of the console and the firewall.

[This message has been edited by JanusSolSumnus (edited 12-09-2002).]

1986GTV8 MSG #278, 12-09-2002 03:17 PM
      SWEET!!!


Gotta do that to mine!

John
Davenport, FL


JanusSolSumnus (janus@csbadboyz.net) MSG #279, 12-09-2002 09:05 PM
      Almost lost off the first page.

Here to anxiously bump it.

drummer5 (drummer5@twcny.rr.com) MSG #280, 12-09-2002 11:15 PM
      *Drools at Roy's interior*

Dude that ting is soooo sweet, can't wait to see the finished doors.

BTW dude that part of the center console between the seats is just SCREAMING for a Fiero decale!

Once again, sweet interior you got there, can't wait to see jscott's finished.

AznFiero MSG #281, 12-09-2002 11:21 PM
      Whats that cool looking blue thing behind the console? ARe you gonna paint it grey too?

jscott1 MSG #282, 12-10-2002 08:23 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by AznFiero:

Whats that cool looking blue thing behind the console? ARe you gonna paint it grey too?

(answering for Roy) That blue thing is Roy's custom cover for the computer. It is painted body color and will stay that way.

By the way, I was sidelined last week and hope to have some progress pics to show soon. Roy's interior is looking good, so I have to have something equally dramatic before I post pics again.

- Jonathan (Jscott1)



JMunilla87GT (jmunilla@nc.rr.com) MSG #283, 12-10-2002 09:39 AM
      you know after reading this thread for weeks, I have come to a conclusion. I hate you guys why can't my interior look like that? you bastards! No but really your dash conversions look great and thank for all the pics and info. As has been said before I think this will become a popular Fiero conversion, but for now your guys have the nicest Fiero interiors I've seen. Oh and just as a side note the camaro interior looks a lot cheaper than the firebird. I like the round vents on the pontiac model a lot better.



intlcutlass (lgrable@pai-net.com) MSG #284, 12-10-2002 10:13 AM
      What I am looking for/to do is to add an on board computer, like the 1990 TGP, or a Cutlass supreme DIC( if you like buttons). Right now , there's no way it will fit. I would also very much like to find a way to add in a HUD. The interior of this car should reflect the proformance that the has, and it doesn't. I would have to come up with some drawings, but if I had my way, the interior would look like the Batmobile. Lots of high tech **** , and very sleek lookn

Haagster MSG #285, 12-10-2002 10:27 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
By the way, I was sidelined last week and hope to have some progress pics to show soon. Roy's interior is looking good, so I have to have something equally dramatic before I post pics again.

It isn't a competition, is it? I, for one, am absolutely impressed with the progress and innovation on both cars. I only wish I had thought of it first... There is a 97 Camaro in a local yard that I can get the parts from (fairly cheap), so I am reading here with great interest. Please, post even 'undramatic' information. Enquiring minds want to know



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #286, 12-10-2002 02:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Haagster:

It isn't a competition, is it? I, for one, am absolutely impressed with the progress and innovation on both cars. I only wish I had thought of it first... There is a 97 Camaro in a local yard that I can get the parts from (fairly cheap), so I am reading here with great interest. Please, post even 'undramatic' information. Enquiring minds want to know


Competition? No, not really. Jonathan and I have been emailing each other for several months about our projects. We usually coorespond 3-4 times a week or more, depending on what we've been doing. We've shared ideas, sucesses, set backs and words of encouragement along the way. And, become frends. What we have done is motivate each other. Just when one of use was ready to throw in the towel, it seemed the other was there to share enough of a success story to get the juices flowing again. Honestly, I don't know how much of the project I would have had completed by now if it weren't for Jonathan.

It's good to have a partner!

Roy

Kelvin Vivian (no_18@yahoo.com) MSG #287, 12-10-2002 03:57 PM
      You guys both have awesome interiors and beautiful cars to put them in:

A bright red 88 GT and a blue 87 GT...

Keep up the good work...

kv



jscott1 MSG #288, 12-11-2002 01:08 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:


Competition? No, not really. Jonathan and I have been emailing each other for several months about our projects. We usually coorespond 3-4 times a week or more, depending on what we've been doing. We've shared ideas, sucesses, set backs and words of encouragement along the way. And, become frends. What we have done is motivate each other. Just when one of use was ready to throw in the towel, it seemed the other was there to share enough of a success story to get the juices flowing again. Honestly, I don't know how much of the project I would have had completed by now if it weren't for Jonathan.

It's good to have a partner!

Roy

I couldn't have said it better. Roy has been a constant source of inspiration for me. There are many times I just wanted to give up but after seeing something he had done I go out to the garage and do one little thing just to make some progress.

I would like to have something interesting to show the forum next time I post. I have a few surprises left in my arsenal, and they are nearly ready to reveal.

stay tuned...

Jonathan (Scott1)

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #289, 12-11-2002 10:35 PM
      I just had to post to let you guy know that I FINALLY got to take my car out of the garage and drive it for the first time with the new dash and console. IT'S SO COOOOOL!

My first trip was to our monthly Suncoast Fiero club meeting so I got to spend about 65 miles round trip behind the dash. It was day light there, night time on the way home. The dash was a big hit at the meeting. And, I gotta say, there isn't the first rattle in the whole setup.

I'm driving it to work tomorrow to show a few people then it's back in the garage until I get the door panels finished. I also need to replace some subframe bushings and fix the ever growing exhaust leak but, that's another topic.

I'm also still working on my documentation for the conversion. I've already got ten pages of text and photos and I haven't even started the door panels. I hope to have all the work and documentation completed by mid January and on a web site soon after that.

Talk to you later,
Roy


jscott1 MSG #290, 12-12-2002 01:26 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

I just had to post to let you guy know that I FINALLY got to take my car out of the garage and drive it for the first time with the new dash and console. IT'S SO COOOOOL!
Roy

Contratulations on getting that hangar queen back out on the road

I'm kidding or course, it was actually my car that spent 4 months in the garage undergoing heavy modification. You took the accelerated approach and did it in a few weeks.

I drove my car to the annual Lone Star Fiero Christmas Party last weekend and even though I'm not done yet, there was a lot of admiration. It is an odd feeling driving a car after a transformation like this. It feels like a completely different car.

Good luck on your door panels, the fiberglass method still seems like a lot of work to me. I should be back in the garage this week so look for progress pics starting soon.

Jonathan (JScott1)



Speedlogic (speedlogic@gbronline.com) MSG #291, 12-12-2002 02:06 AM
      I can what Columbus felt like when he discovered the new world.

Speedlogic (speedlogic@gbronline.com) MSG #292, 12-12-2002 02:10 AM
      I can imagine what Columbus felt like when he discovered the new world.Sorry bout that just woke up 2:08am

jscott1 MSG #293, 12-15-2002 07:49 PM
      I have a few progress pics to rescue this thread from page 5:

I got Jelly2M8's short shifter installed:

It is WAY better than the stock shifter. Thanks a Million!!

If you were to make another one, (for the dash positioned where I have it), I would suggest to angle it about an inch to the rear and it would be perfect.

My approach to the console has been to take the Firebird console and hog it out so that it can slip over the Fiero tunnel. This is a little different than what Roy did, but I am using the 97-2002 Firebird console that is a little bigger.

Since I am not good with fiberglass I decided to use the upper portion of the Fiero console for the computer cover:

Here's a quick look at them together:

Nothing's bolted down yet, but it's fitting close enough to give me confidence that it's all going to work together.

Stay tuned for the final assembly shots.

Jonathan (JScott1)

[edited for spelling]


jscott1 MSG #294, 12-15-2002 07:58 PM
      Also , my car is no GBCT, but I took it out for some beauty shots today:



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #295, 12-16-2002 08:48 PM
      Jonathan -- You getting there. I'm still looking for a good deal on a later model console like yours. One nice thing about the computer/tunnel cover that I made is that, with only a slight modification, I can use the wider console. Are you still going to be able to use the front passenger cup holder once the console in in place?

I have no real news to report. Well nothing too pretty anyway. I did install the door handle and lock on the passenger side door and cut the holes for the door speakers. I'm also working on replacing the Firebird fuel gauge within the cluster with an older model GM unit that isn't looking for a signal from the ECM.

I'm taking lots pictures and documenting my progress along the way. So far I've got 11 pages written with pictures in a Word document. I hope to have it all on a web site by the first part of next year.

Keep up the good work,



jscott1 MSG #296, 12-16-2002 11:10 PM
      Roy - Thanks for the words of encouragement. Since I got my new digital camera I am taking tons of pics to contribute to the web once that get's set up.

I am right in the middle of securing the carpet to the tunnel. Without the console support "skelton" there is nothing to attach the carpet to or prevent it from sagging. So I am drilling holes and securing the carpet with sheet metal screws, (I believe this is what Roy did as well).

However, drilling into the Fiero center tunnel is a bit unsettling. Even though there are several layers of metal before you get to the gas tank, and I am checking the clearance several times, I half expect to smell gas each time the drill breaks through.

I was tempted to rip out the supports for the cruise control module and subwoofer because they tend to make the carpet sag even worse, and there is plenty of space for them up under the Firebird dash. And I have just succumbed to ripping out the cruise control module. I am about 5 minutes away from ripping out the sub amp as well. I don't know how pre-88s look but my 88 coupe has the bump for the cruise control even though it didn't come with cruise control, (ironically I mounted the after market cruise control module in the factory bump but that's another story.)

Anyway my footwells are going to have a lot more room than the standard 88. I will actually be able to see my driver's foot for a change.

On the passenger side I have notched out the dash enough that the cup holder will still deploy, (even though it's more forward with respect to the dash than it should be).

Those later model consoles tend to be hard to find, (or expensive) because the Firebird owners like to upgrade theirs to the later model to get the three extra cupholders. (only one extra cupholder survives in the Fiero version, the other two were for the back seat)

I will post some progress pics later tonight.

- Jonathan (JScott1)



jscott1 MSG #297, 12-17-2002 03:15 AM
      This is getting frustrating. Roy's dash position seems to work a whole lot better. Nothing is bolted down yet in the final position becuase it's going to have to be a compromise between getting the dash high enough, and the console rearward enough.

Neither is ideal and it's not 100% representative of the Firebird interior. Then again I didn't set out to duplicate the Firebird 100%, only to give my car a more modern look, which I think I have succeeded in doing.

By tomorrow or te next day I should have everything bolted down in the final locations. The dash will be a little higher and a little more forward than what you see in this picture. And the console will sit a little lower, so the cigarette lighter will not be buried under the dash as bad as it appears here.

And I will be able to use the forward cupholder.




soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #298, 12-17-2002 05:21 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:
I'm taking lots pictures and documenting my progress along the way. So far I've got 11 pages written with pictures in a Word document. I hope to have it all on a web site by the first part of next year.

I am still willing to put this on the web for you. Whenever you finish gathering all the information and pictures you need, just PM me, or email me. My email is in my profile. (dont want to post it on here due to spam)

Keep up the good work guys. I think we are ALL very excited for you both to get these finished. You will both be credited with such a great contribution to this ever-growing community of ours.

Cam70Dude MSG #299, 12-17-2002 07:59 PM
      Hello all,

I stumbled onto this site the other day while I was searching to see if anybody was making any Pantera kits for the Fiero. No Pantera kits, that I could find, but found alot of cool custom kits for Fieros. Also I love what mrfixit58 and jscott1 are doing with the Firebird dash install. The Fieros interior was the one thing that kept me from purchasing one new back in 1985. Couldn't stand the boringness of the interiors. Now the interior you guys are working has....well lets say a Fiero GT may be my next toy .

I had a couple thoughts to throw at you guys. (Hope ya don't mind a newbie butting in) The dash part looks awesome, like it was made to be in the Fiero. As for the door panels, i'm of the mindset try not to do much hacking if at all possible. Just makes things look better when its time to put the finishing touches on. Has anybody thought about door panels from say 1996-2002 Grand Am or Grand Prix? They look very similar to the Firebird door and are alot less shorter in length than those long ass Firebird doors. The Grand Am dash looks very cool too, may be another possible swap?

Grand Prix pics. Click the 360 view for a virtual interior view. Rotate the view to the doors panels. They look very similar to what mrfixit and jscot have done to their F-bird doors, lengthwise.
http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/details/pontiac02grandprix/surround.html

Grand Am pics.
http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/details/pontiac02grandam/surround.html

Cool site for new car info. I dont think the Grand Am or Grand Prix interior has changed from 1996 to 2003.

Here's a better pic of the Grand Am dash, a 2000. http://www.geocities.com/camman86/grandaminterior.html

Just some food for hungry minds. Keep up the good work. Both your interiors are gonna look great when you get them finished.

jelly2m8 (acook1@bwr.eastlink.ca) MSG #300, 12-17-2002 08:09 PM
      Looking good, looking GOOD!

Now, I have an Idea for the 2nd phase....

Would require a longer front cable, and mounting the handle.



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #301, 12-17-2002 10:41 PM
      Cam70Dude -- Thanks for the complement. I understand your comment about the door panels. It's very possible that there are other panels that could work just as well. Stick around, you may catch the Fiero bug.

jelly2m8 -- I've already thought of the center pull parking brake. But, unfortunatly, there just wasn't enough gain in it to make me want to overcome the additional clearance issues, the added expense and work. Though, it would have been pretty cool.

Roy

jscott1 MSG #302, 12-17-2002 11:46 PM
      Cam70Dude - Welcome to the forum and thanks for the compliment. A Pantera kit would be awesome. After I finish this, my coupe is going to become my project car, and a rebody is probably in the cards.

A lot of people have expressed concern about the door panels. Even the master builder MrFixit58 (Roy) decided not to mess with the Firebird door panels, so the pressure is on me to make it look decent. I had a little time to hit them with the heat gun and I am pretty confident I can close out the ends and make them look decent.

I think that is a lot easier than trying to make shorter panels work or reworking the Fiero panels as Roy is doing. But, that's just my opinion.

Jelly2M8 - that short shifter is the Shizznat! Everybody should have a short shifter in their Fiero. Makes it shift so much more crisper. A slightly different boot design would help, but once I figure out the best way to fold the Firebird boot it will look even better.

I too though about moving the parking brake, but it would be a big hassle and I'm not sure any better. Kind of looks cleaner not having the handle there. And besides, my brake handle is almost completely hidden between the door panel and the seat, so it works as a theft deterrent. No thief would ever figure out how to release the brake, if they couldn't even see it. And I have something else in mind to go there.


I still can't believe it's the same car sometimes!!

By the way, comments, courtesy bumps and positive ratings are all apreciated



AgaricX (skyline@infinissan.com) MSG #303, 12-18-2002 06:29 AM
      Wow....

That's all I can say. I am in awe of ow sweet this looks.

I currently live in an apartment and have no garage. It's in Texas, so I'm not worried about snow or anything... but I definitely want to do this swap. Would this be possible outside with limited tools?

Is this possible to do without welding any additional mounting points? Can I just get some custom brackets fab'd?

I'm getting an 88GT T-Tops in January. If we're going to be cruising around with the tops off... I WANT THIS INTERIOR!!!

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #304, 12-18-2002 08:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by AgaricX:

Wow....

That's all I can say. I am in awe of ow sweet this looks.

I currently live in an apartment and have no garage. It's in Texas, so I'm not worried about snow or anything... but I definitely want to do this swap. Would this be possible outside with limited tools?

Is this possible to do without welding any additional mounting points? Can I just get some custom brackets fab'd?

I'm getting an 88GT T-Tops in January. If we're going to be cruising around with the tops off... I WANT THIS INTERIOR!!!


Of course you can build it outside. All of the preliminary R&D construction was built outside on my test mule. It was only when I was ready to transfer the dash to my daily driver did the project move inside.

As far tools, why don't you wait until I post the build-up on a web site to make that decision. I can tell you that I used almost every tool in my garage including a mig welder, band saw, compressor and air tools, and drill press. Can it be done without them? Yes, probably. But it will depend greatly on your skills as a fabricator. I wouldn't recommend this project if you tool chest consists of only a Dremal, screwdrivers, and a K-mart socket set.

At the bare minumim (for my method), you'll need a saws-all, drill and bits, soldering iron, just about every hand tool you have, and body work tools (for the dash and computer cover).

Roy

jscott1 MSG #305, 12-18-2002 10:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

As far tools, why don't you wait until I post the build-up on a web site to make that decision. I can tell you that I used almost every tool in my garage including a mig welder, band saw, compressor and air tools, and drill press. Can it be done without them? Yes, probably. But it will depend greatly on your skills as a fabricator. I wouldn't recommend this project if you tool chest consists of only a Dremal, screwdrivers, and a K-mart socket set.

At the bare minumim (for my method), you'll need a saws-all, drill and bits, soldering iron, just about every hand tool you have, and body work tools (for the dash and computer cover).

Roy

Let me add to Roy's comments...These all comments apply to HIS Method.

I set out to do this without any major cutting to the Fiero structure. There are a lot of advantages to the way Roy did his dash, but the huge advantage to mine is that you COULD install the dash with just a screwdriver, dremel and a socket set.

I used a jig saw to cut the center tunnel and the door panels, but that's about it. I never got out the sawzall, and I don't even own air tools, band saw, drill press or a welder.

So if you want a low tech easy to install Firebird dash don't give up, there is a solution out there for you. Not to take anything away from Roy, because he is a master builder, and his setup is awesome, but I didn't want to do all the work he is doing to make it perfect.

When I get a little time I will post my build up and you can compare the two methods and make your decision. Good luck

- Jonathan (JScott1)


htexans1 (bd5av8r@yahoo.com) MSG #306, 12-18-2002 10:09 PM
      I looked at the Grand Am dash and considered it as an alternative, however the twin "Dolly Parton may i help hold up your boobs gauge pods" (IMHO) would get in the way of driving and looking out the front window.
However I do have a suggestion. If you are going to convert the Fiero to V8 power, opt for the Trans Am dash and gauges. THe V8 gauge package will work with the V8 without conversion. Oh, dont forget to get the seats, Leather and Lumbar support and electric adjustable!! Now if only Archie would make the sucuide doors an optional feature like he has on the Stinger!!...
Sammy Williams
1988 Fiero


mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #307, 12-18-2002 10:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Let me add to Roy's comments...These all comments apply to HIS Method.
- Jonathan (JScott1)

Didn't I say that?

Roy

jscott1 MSG #308, 12-18-2002 11:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Didn't I say that?

Roy

Of course you did, I just wanted to make it perfectly clear

If I needed to use a welder or air tools I would be out of luck


jscott1 MSG #309, 12-18-2002 11:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by htexans1:

... If you are going to convert the Fiero to V8 power, opt for the Trans Am dash and gauges. THe V8 gauge package will work with the V8 without conversion.

I have the gauge package from a Firebird 3800 V6 and they are working without conversion in my 2.8 V6. But your point is well taken, if I ever did a V8 swap I could just swap in V8 Firebird gauges and be done.

I considered Firebird leather seats but they are going for about $800 on eBay...a little more than I wanted to pay...but maybe someday.



naskie18 (nick@naskie18.com) MSG #310, 12-19-2002 10:08 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
I considered Firebird leather seats but they are going for about $800 on eBay...a little more than I wanted to pay...but maybe someday.

Did you check out a local junkyard to try and find good seats? I would imagine you can get good seats for a lot less than that at a junkyard.

On a different note, what would I have to do to make all the 'bird guages work in an '85 GT with the 2.8?

Another quick question for you (JScott1), I know you said the dash is about 3 inches closer to you, does the steering wheel stick out any more or no? The other clearance question I have is about the clearance between the shifter (in a 4 spd) and the HVAC controls, how much clearance is there, is it going to be a pain in the ass to adjust the climate while in 1st or 3rd gear?

What you're doing with the dash looks absolutely awesome, and I can't wait until you guys get it all together and we get to see it and get the completed "installation manual".

Which brings up another quick question, do you think we'll get to see either (or both) of your cars at the 20th Annviersary show?

Kudos to you guys on all the great work so far

*Edited because I speech goodly*


jscott1 MSG #311, 12-19-2002 11:09 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by naskie18:

Did you check out a local junkyard to try and find good seats? I would imagine you can get good seats for a lot less than that at a junkyard.

I haven't checked the junkyards, there are probably some deals to be had.

 
quote
On a different note, what would I have to do to make all the 'bird guages work in an '85 GT with the 2.8?

As far as I know there are no major differenes between 85 and 87 and 88 GT. So everything Roy and I are doing should apply to you. The gas gauge is the only Firebird gauge that doesn't work in the Fiero. Roy and I are planning to substitute another gauge.

 
quote

Another quick question for you (JScott1), I know you said the dash is about 3 inches closer to you, does the steering wheel stick out any more or no? The other clearance question I have is about the clearance between the shifter (in a 4 spd) and the HVAC controls, how much clearance is there, is it going to be a pain in the ass to adjust the climate while in 1st or 3rd gear?

My Steering column is unchanged from stock position, however the Firebird steering wheel is a little "meatier" through the center so it seems like it might be an inch or two closer. That works better for me because I sit all the way back and normally the steering wheel is too far away.

The HVAC and radio controls are a good distance away from the shifter. Jelly2M8 built me a custom shifter that increased the distance, but there is still enough room to get your hand in there and adjust it. When I get everything bolted down I will take some 3-view pictures.

 
quote

do you think we'll get to see either (or both) of your cars at the 20th Annviersary show?

I don't know about the 20th anniversary. But I am highly probable for Daytona, and Roy will definitely be in Daytona.

- Jonathan (JScott1)

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 12-19-2002).]

naskie18 (nick@naskie18.com) MSG #312, 12-20-2002 12:07 PM
     


*Edited because it was originally a link to the image instead of the image*

[This message has been edited by naskie18 (edited 01-02-2003).]

Smoooooth GT MSG #313, 12-21-2002 03:53 AM
      El Bumpo to the toppo...



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #314, 12-22-2002 07:56 PM
      Just a little update. I've been very busy tieing up a few loose details like the fuel gauge. If you've been following this thread then you should know that the Firebird fuel gauge is the only gauge in the cluster that won't work correcetly if left alone. What I did was to remove the Firebird gauge from the cluster and replace it with one from an 80's model GM car. The Fiero gauge won't work because it deflectes the wrong way.

The conversion was fairly simple compaired to everything else that I've accomplished so far. The older gauges are a little bigger and must be trimmed slightly and siliconed to the lens. The lens needs to adjusted but that adjustement was very minor. I then used some small wire to solder to the circuit board traces for: 12 volt, ground, and sending unit. Easy stuff.

I've also been working on the door panels. The driver's side door is compete except for the vinyl. It's really going to look good. I hope to have the passenger side door panel completed tomorrow. With luck, I'll have the panels completed before the new year. I'll post some pictures as soon as there is something to show.

Later,
Roy


DustoneGT MSG #315, 12-22-2002 11:58 PM
      ReBUMP.....

For all the guys doing the conversions
How much money have you spent up to now?


jscott1 MSG #316, 12-23-2002 02:07 AM
      There are itemized lists back on page-4. My list is from memory though because I am too afraid to see how much I have really spent.

I bought 100% of my parts off the net, which is definitely NOT cheaper than searching the junkyards.

But I have bought a few extras that I haven't revealed yet. And I did an interior color change at the same time so I had additional expenses like carpet, seat skins, trim, etc.

By the way, for the purists, I couldn't bring myself to paint beechwood trim, so I bought another complete set of regular tan trim and painted it. The original beechwood trim has found a new home.

htexans1 (bd5av8r@yahoo.com) MSG #317, 12-23-2002 05:58 PM
      Just a little update. I've been very busy tieing up a few loose details like the fuel gauge. If you've been following this thread then you should know that the Firebird fuel gauge is the only gauge in the cluster that won't work correcetly if left alone. What I did was to remove the Firebird gauge from the cluster and replace it with one from an 80's model GM car. The Fiero gauge won't work because it deflectes the wrong way.

How about using the fuel sending unit and such from the firebird? could one then use the firebirds fuel gauge? Oh post pics of your modified gauge anyway. It still may be the better method.
S.Williams
1988 Fiero


mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #318, 12-23-2002 07:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by htexans1:

How about using the fuel sending unit and such from the firebird? could one then use the firebirds fuel gauge? Oh post pics of your modified gauge anyway. It still may be the better method.
S.Williams
1988 Fiero

I don't think it will work unless your using the Firebird ECM. The gauge is looking for some kind of signal and unless the ECM is present, it won't get it. But still, no problem. The fix is simple.

Below is a picture comparing the Firebird gauge with the older GM gauge. Not the size difference. In this picture I'va already cut about 1/8" off the face of the older gauge in preparation for it's installation.

This is a stiched picture of the back of the cluster circuit board. One shows the gauge studs and the modified board. The other shows the completed installation. If were to do it again, it waould take about an hour from start to finish. Much easier than trying to change a sending unit.

Like I said, nothing too pretty. Just some of the meat of the project.

Roy

[This message has been edited by mrfixit58 (edited 12-23-2002).]

1986GTV8 MSG #319, 12-25-2002 08:14 AM
      Roy:

Could you post a follow-up stating which fuelgauge post are soldered to what trace circut?

I read this post from fornt to back once a week.

Great stuff. I am going to do mine as the money comes in. Allready removed my dash, and am looking into EL gauges for the conversion.

That being said. which gauge did you use for the fuel? Wonder if the Firebird EL gauge is close to that gauge pattern?

John

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #320, 12-25-2002 10:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 1986GTV8:

Roy:

Could you post a follow-up stating which fuelgauge post are soldered to what trace circut?

I read this post from fornt to back once a week.

Great stuff. I am going to do mine as the money comes in. Allready removed my dash, and am looking into EL gauges for the conversion.

That being said. which gauge did you use for the fuel? Wonder if the Firebird EL gauge is close to that gauge pattern?

John


The tracing are the same for the replacement gauge as it was for the Firebird gauge the orientation of the repacement gauge was different that's why I had to use jumper wires. I did,however, remove the resistor that was in series with pin marked "2" on the circuit board. That trace was from the sending unit. The trace in the "3" position was the ground and the "1" was 12 volts. If you follow the tracing up to the connector you can obtain the pin number. If your attempting this project, be sure to get a cluster wiring diagram and double check all that.

Both gauges use only three connections even though the Firebird gauge has four. On the older gauge, the pin without the resistor element is the ground. that only leaves you with two to figure out (i.e., a 50-50 chance). I looked on the back of a gauge I'd built for my 68 Camaro. From the back, the center top is ground, the left is the sending unit and the right is the 12 volt feed.

As for the older fuel gauge, the model of GM car it's removed from doesn't matter. I've had a couple of them around the shop and all removed from different cars and all were simular. What's critical is that the gauge deflects from left to right and that the Firebird needle will fit snuggly on the pin. A good ruel-of-thumb is, if the studs are threaded, it doen't need the computer to work.

Hope this helps,
Roy


jscott1 MSG #321, 12-25-2002 03:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:


Hope this helps,
Roy


Thanks Roy. Even though I discovered the fuel gauge problem a month ago I haven't had a chance to fix it. Your instructions will help a lot.

In keeping in my tradition, I have bought a gas gauge off of ebay. Ironically it's from a 1980 Trans Am, although as you say, just about any gauge from 1965 on will work, as long as the needle moves the right way. Interestingly the 3rd gen Trans am deflects the wrong way and won't work.

I had a little setback this week as my temperature gauge stopped working. I thought loose wire behind the dash. No problem right...wrong. To make a long story short, I had an open develop somewhere in the wire between the ignition switch and C500.

I stopped my troubleshooting at that point and ran another wire from the gauge to C500. I might have damaged the orignal wire in the process of installing my console. I may never know what happened. In any case my temperature gauge is working again. One of the hazards of cutting and drilling I suppose.

I hope to get everything bolted down in their permanent locations this week. I have just about completed my environmental controls. I can tell you that even though they will work I'm not totally happy. The knobs are kind of sloppy and don't fit the shafts all that well. I will probably start working on a second set to replace these and hopefully it will turn out better.

- Jonathan (Jscott1)


[ Edited to add pic since I'm at the top of page-9]


mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #322, 12-28-2002 09:16 PM
      I thought it was time for a little update. The pictures below show the door panels with the sculpted foam (white part). It sticks out about 3/4" and is rounded like the Firebird panels. I'll try and get a better photo later. The black is an insert made of waterproof cardboard and will be covered is a contrasting color. All that's left is the vinyl upholstery and it'll be finished. I think I captured the essence of the Firebird interior. The last photo is a window view of the car. It really changes it's personality, doesn't it?





jscott1 MSG #323, 12-28-2002 11:04 PM
      That interior is AWESOME!!

Your door panels came out great even before the vinyl is applied. Keep it coming.

I have spent the last few days working on my environmental controls. I don't know what made me think the relay setup would be easier than your 5 layer switch. It has turned out to be a bigger job than I imagined.

Yeah, when I look at my car now it doesn't even look and feel the same. It looks and feels like a little Firebird, like maybe what a 2003 Firebird would look like, (if there were such a thing).

- Joanthan (Jscott1)



jscott1 MSG #324, 12-29-2002 01:32 AM
      Here is an update on my progress. Not nearly as visually interesting as Roy's update today, but here is what I have been working on...

The environmental controls are another area Roy and I took different approaches. Roy used a 5 level switch, and I am using a single level switch and relays with a logic board to achieve the same effect.

This is mainly because my local electronics parts outlet did not have 5 level switches. Well it's turned out to be a big deal to get it built.


The other difference is that I am using the Fiero temperature control cable and modifying the firebird control knob to work with it. Roy used the Firebird cable and modified the fiero airbox.

The main reason I didn't do that is because I didn't get a firebird cable until after my dash was in and I didn't feel like pulling it out to install the cable, and I don't think it's long enough anyway.

The last difference is that I am using the rear defogger switch as an A/C compressor on/off switch. (Since I don't have a rear defogger the switch would not have been used.) The thing is though is that the firebird defogger is a momentary switch, so I needed something to convert it to an off/on switch. I started to do it electronically, but the circuit started to get very complicated with relays, transistors, capacitors and what not, so I decided to physically replace the switch with a alternate action on/off swtitch. I had just the perfect switch but I screwed it up during the intallation, so I need to get another one on monday and try again.

Last but not least, my single level switch was acting real sloppy because I didn't grind the shaft to the right diameter, so I got another switch today to start over and see if I can get it right.

I really thought this would all be behind me by now and get back to the fun stuff. but that's the breaks sometimes.

- Jonathan (JScott1)

Just to keep this thread interesting, here another view of the dash




1986GTV8 MSG #325, 12-29-2002 03:11 PM
      WOW!

This has become my favorite damn thread.

Great stuff guys.

htexans1 (bd5av8r@yahoo.com) MSG #326, 12-29-2002 08:28 PM
      Those door panels are sweet. Here are my questions.
1. Can one use the Fiero climate controls if needed (Firebird climate control panels locally are made of unobtainium...)
2. Where does one purchase the foam for sculpting the molds for the computer cover and the door panels?
Thanks for the ideas, my Northstar Fiero will be totally modern now (once I finish it.)
S.Williams
1988 Fiero ("Fastback Coupe Northstar Project Car)


mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #327, 12-29-2002 10:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by htexans1:

Those door panels are sweet. Here are my questions.
1. Can one use the Fiero climate controls if needed (Firebird climate control panels locally are made of unobtainium...))

Of course it can be used but you'll need to come up with a way to mount it onto the Firebird dash. The Fiero control panels is more narrow. My first attempt was to do just that. My dash came with a stripped control panel (someone had already grabbed the knobs and the panel face) so I cut the out center of the panel and fastened the Fiero control panels to it then cut and fit the Fiero trim plate over the top to fill in the edges. It looked pretty good but once I figure out how to make the Firebird panel work I set it asside. I still have it and if your interested I'll take a couple of pictures to show you what I mean.

 
quote

2. Where does one purchase the foam for sculpting the molds for the computer cover and the door panels?

For the door panels I bought closed cell foam from a local upholstry supply store. I used mostly 1/4" (three layers) that cost about $8 per linear yard (54" wide).

The computer cover was sculpted out of stryrofoam that I bought from a craft store. I scupted, I covered it with masking tape as a barrior before applying the fiberglass resin. I gave a little more discriptive explanation of it earlier in the thread.

Roy

Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #328, 12-30-2002 07:42 AM
      This needs to make it's way back to the first page!! *BUMP*



1986GTV8 MSG #329, 12-30-2002 09:35 PM
      How well did the fuel gauge work?

I was considering the EL gauge style conversion if I do this Firebird dash, but how do you incorporate the new/old fuel guage?

Fantastic job guys!

John

FieroFiend MSG #330, 12-31-2002 02:20 AM
      Glad I just now got to read this! I would have died long ago from the horrible suspense!

time to go buy some firebird parts that is after i sort out my cars current issues heh


mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #331, 12-31-2002 08:31 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 1986GTV8:

How well did the fuel gauge work?

I was considering the EL gauge style conversion if I do this Firebird dash, but how do you incorporate the new/old fuel guage?

Fantastic job guys!

John

The gauge seems to be working fine. I haven't had the car on the road much since I replaced the gauge so I've not used much fuel. But, It does deflect correctly when you turn the switch and when I filled the tank it re-registered higher indicating that it recognized a change in resistance from the sending unit.

I'm a little confused with your last question specifically: "how do you incorporate the new/old fuel gauge". I explained how I did it at the bottom of the previous page (page 8). Is this what your asking? If not, could you clearify your question so I can have another crack at the answer?


Roy



1986GTV8 MSG #332, 12-31-2002 09:27 AM
      Roy:

My inquiry was, the new feul guage from the older car, is it compatable with the EL gauge set? OR, does it require two diffrent sets of EL gauges to have the correct markings for both sets of gauges?

As far as testing the gauge goes, why not swing by my place in Davenport and see (read as give advice) for my 86GT?

Thanks for all of your help.

Sincerely;

John

jscott1 MSG #333, 12-31-2002 08:32 PM
      I think you two guys are still talking past each other. If you do the firebird dash and use firebird gauges, then you will have a firebird faceplate. If you go EL then you will need a firebird EL faceplate. Either way it is not going to care what type of gauge is behind it.

The only requirement is that the replacement gauge have appoximately the same amount of deflection as the original gauge. It doesn't have to be completely accurate as the Fiero sender is not that accurate, (unless you recently replaced it with a new one).

I hope this is clear to everyone. I am still waiting to get my replacement gauge to make the swap. As soon as I do I will post my method. No doubt in some way will be slightly different.

htexans1 (bd5av8r@yahoo.com) MSG #334, 12-31-2002 10:02 PM
      Thanks for the answers to my questions. Any pictures are welcome (Fiero climate controls) Anyway have a safe and happy New Years!
S.Williams
1988 Fiero

Ohh....Bump.... Thats the first bump ever from me...(GRIN)

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #335, 01-01-2003 09:23 AM
      1986GTV8 -- Most all the left-to-right deflecting gauges have the same degre of sweep. If your truly concerned about accuracy, make a template tracing of the Firebit geuge and extend the "E" and "F" lines a little to creat a "V" shape. Then take it to the junkyard and use it as an overlay. But, from experience, I can say that of the five or so gauges that I've removed, the sweep rance and angle are almost identical.

As far the EL stuff... what jscott1 said. (Thanks for help with the clearification Jonathan). Once the gauge is installed, the face look totally stock. If you want EL gauge face, buy one for a Firebird.

Maybe when I get the door panels completed I'll make a little road trip to Davenport to a little show-n-tell.

htexans1 -- Look back a few pages. I discribed how I modified the Firebird control panel to operate the Fiero environmental control actuators.

Roy
Roy


1986GTV8 MSG #336, 01-01-2003 10:01 AM
      Thanks guys. That cleared it up for me.

Best wishes for the new year!

John



Jake_Dragon MSG #337, 01-01-2003 10:20 AM
      Awesome work.
Mrfixit58 it looks great, can’t wait to see it in person.
Jscott1 excellent work.
Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety percent perspiration and nine percent luck .
Both you guys have done a great job.



jscott1 MSG #338, 01-02-2003 02:04 AM
      I finally finished my environmental controls. I must have spent 40 hours on this one thing alone. It should not have been that complicated but I had to repeat several things. I don't think I would recommend doing it this way.

First, I had to replace the rotary switch with a new one so that I could get a better fit from the knob to the shaft.

Then, the surplus relays that I used turned out to be normally closed and I thought they were normally open so everything was working backwards. I had to scrap those relays and start over.

Finally, the alternate action on/off switch for the compressor had to be replaced by another switch and it must have taken me 6 hours to get it mounted properly. I almost gave up on it, but now I can get cold A/C air on my feet, (something Pontiac didn't want us to have for some reason.) As a bonus it also doubles as a coolant fan switch.

Everything is getting bolted down now, and soon I should have pictures of the final assembly. Here is a preview of the center console, (which I painted to give it a chrome/aluminum look)



naskie18 (nick@naskie18.com) MSG #339, 01-02-2003 09:26 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:
Of course it can be used but you'll need to come up with a way to mount it onto the Firebird dash. The Fiero control panels is more narrow. My first attempt was to do just that. My dash came with a stripped control panel (someone had already grabbed the knobs and the panel face) so I cut the out center of the panel and fastened the Fiero control panels to it then cut and fit the Fiero trim plate over the top to fill in the edges. It looked pretty good but once I figure out how to make the Firebird panel work I set it asside. I still have it and if your interested I'll take a couple of pictures to show you what I mean.

I'd like to see some pictures of it, if its not too much of a bother

Nick


JanusSolSumnus (janus@csbadboyz.net) MSG #340, 01-02-2003 05:17 PM
      I really am liking how this is coming out. Cant wait for the ending and a website that has everything jammed together. Like I said before, if you send me all the pics and some descriptions to go with each image I will make a site and host it if I can.

I have had the idea of the Grand Prix interior for awhile, mainly because I will be doing a 3800 GenIII mod in about 1 1/2 - 2 years so the GTP's built in boost controls and such flow nicely, but the Firebird one is still nice to me. I just dont know if the GP one would fit, plus a bit of center console modding would be needed for the manual shifter.

GTFiero1 (fierogt5speed@aol.com) MSG #341, 01-02-2003 05:32 PM
      mrfixit58, your the envy of blue fiero owners everywhere



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #342, 01-02-2003 08:01 PM
      naski18 -- here are a few shoots of the modified Firebird control panel I made to accept the Fiero controls. To fasten Fiero controls to it I used some 3M plastic adheasive to build the corners then drilled it and used screws to make it secure. It could just as easily been glued directly to the panel itself. I removed the section from the middle of the old Fiero face plate and used it to cover the gap.

Sorry but, I don't have a shot of it installed. However, I did try it out and it looked OK. If I were to do it over again, I would mount everything a little farther out. The way it is now there is a gap between the Firebird bezel and the face plate. I built it before I had the Firebird bezel. Anyway, maybe it'll help to give you a few ideas.




To everyone else, thanks for the complements.

Roy

jscott1 MSG #343, 01-02-2003 09:09 PM
      I should say thanks too for the compliments.

Roy's Fiero control panel is exactly what I had planned to do, but opted to modify the Firebird panel instead. But it was a lot of work, (the way I did it). If I could do it over I would use the Fiero panel as shown above and then later add the Firebird panel when I had time.



FieroFiend MSG #344, 01-03-2003 10:01 PM
      I forbid this to go to page 2! heh



stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #345, 01-03-2003 10:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroFiend:

I forbid this to go to page 2! heh


And with that i'll say

...I think he ment 10



DaRkLoRD (chaosproject@gmail.com) MSG #346, 01-03-2003 11:56 PM
      I think he meant page 2 of the general chat topic list.



FieroFiend MSG #347, 01-04-2003 12:48 AM
      yea thats what I ment, General page 2 im all for a page 10 wheres the updates



jscott1 MSG #348, 01-04-2003 05:20 AM
      I am right in the middle of bolting everything into their final location...stay tuned for updates soon.

To keep this thread interesting, here is a comparison of my Firebird interior to the interior of my 97 Trans Am, (that I no longer own ) (Note the pedals on the Fiero are the exact same pedals from the TA.)



1986GTV8 MSG #349, 01-04-2003 10:17 AM
      Damn, more uncontrolled spontainious drooling again.

Seems to happen each time I read this thread.


John


Blade_69 (delbanks@sbcglobal.net) MSG #350, 01-05-2003 12:37 AM
      Beautiful!! Simply Beautiful. It took me a while to read everything but I have to say that it was worth it. You three are on the brink of a big thing happening here. When the kit is done and everything is detailed and planned out, I am going straight to the boneyard. I live in Chicago so they should be plentiful here. I've thought about interiors from the Bonneville to Grand Prix to the Grand Am. Didn't even think about the Firebird. I am so glad that Roy directed me to this thread. It seems like a lot of work but well worth it for the updated look. Unfortunately (to an extent) I will have to go with the Roy design due to the fact that I have an automatic. From what it seems is that it is the best way to go if using an auto. Unless there is a way to angle the shifter backwards about an inch or so...(hint, hint to jelly2m8) and use the snake shifter from the Firebird. I only say unfortunately because of the extra work to go through with cutting and welding. May be cheaper to outsource than buy the tools myself and possibly screw it up..lol. But it looks damn nice. May serve another purpose also by being further back. I'm a 6 footer and would love all the room I can get..lol. Speaking of room, tilt wheel still works....right?

I've also seen that there is a bit of an issue with the center console. Well I'm a bit of an audiophile so I like the look of this center console from the FiberSmith.net and would start with this...
http://www.fibersmith.net/images/SUB1kalsmithdesign.JPG http://www.fibersmith.net/images/subboxinstalled.JPG http://www.fibersmith.net/images/subboxwithcover1.JPG

Now what to do about the shift area? I currently have no idea. Use the Firebird's and try to merge it with the console above somehow? Possibly. Doubt it. But when that is figured out, I found a really nice dual cupholder in AutoZone. You can pretty much drill through the bottom holes in it to mount it to anything. I have it in my car now and I love it!!! Hope I can get PIP to work...


This one is of the console me and a buddy of mine made. Not getting the sound we wanted so instead of redesigning, I'm getting the one I mentioned earlier.

In addition to what Roy and JScott are doing, I'd like to see the "Express Down/Up" feature for the power windows. Check out Mobile in this thread
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/030868.html.

StevenRossi may be able to offer a little more info on this mod.

I know first things first guys. Not trying to jump the gun. Just something extra to offer once the kit is completed and ready for sale.

Overall, this is a great idea and can't wait to see the final product. With the kit, dash, door panels, and electronics, it would be nice to see this whole thing price out to about $800 - $1200 complete. Compared to what's on the market, I'd prefer this.

[This message has been edited by Blade_69 (edited 01-05-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Blade_69 (edited 01-05-2003).]

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #351, 01-06-2003 09:37 PM
      Hey guys,

I just wanted to pass along a picture and a big THANKS to Fred (RAREW66) for the fantastic piece of artwork. And what a pleasure to deal with. Pure polished stainless steel. I'm going to mount on my new computer cover. What do you think? Way Cool, huh?

Here's a picture of the computer cover from a little farther away.



Jake_Dragon MSG #352, 01-06-2003 09:57 PM
      Very nice

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 01-07-2003).]

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #353, 01-06-2003 09:58 PM
      Sorry. Let me try that last one again.




Santa Cruzer (fierose_1986@yahoo.com) MSG #354, 01-06-2003 10:24 PM
      I was in the process of finding a prefect console for my car.Since I have switched to a 4spd tranny my shifter bezel does not look professional at all.Today I purchased a third gen shifter,glovebox console that I will be putting in.How narrow is the 4th gen console? I also have a back up consol from a 90' grand prix put it looks too narrow.



Santa Cruzer (fierose_1986@yahoo.com) MSG #355, 01-06-2003 10:32 PM
      Heres what Im going for,I will be cutting away the stock Camaro radio surround and blend the console in with a mix of camaro/fiero parts.Those little heat vents will also be made functional

I choose the third gen console because the older corvette ones are just too expensive



Santa Cruzer (fierose_1986@yahoo.com) MSG #356, 01-06-2003 10:40 PM
      Heres a shot of the t/a version i'll be going to a yard to pick this one up tommorow,then I can compare which one will work better right now Im thinking the T/A console is a better choice.




stevenrossi (stevenrossi49@hotmail.com) MSG #357, 01-06-2003 10:43 PM
      10MB of space is waiting to host this project and all of it's pictures and information / schematics ...etc

Guys e-mail me if you want this to happen

Lookin' Great!

Steve-O



Santa Cruzer (fierose_1986@yahoo.com) MSG #358, 01-06-2003 10:48 PM
      Notice to everyone who like thew 4thgen door panels ,there is a guy in the local paper who is selling a set for $50 CANADA

jscott1 MSG #359, 01-06-2003 11:46 PM
      Roy, that Pegasus artwork is awesome!

I was looking for something like that for my door panels so that they don't look too much like Firebird panels.

This thread is really starting to take me down memory lane. I owned a 3rd gen Firebird for 5 years so that interior is very familiar to me as well. Even though it dates from the same era as the Fiero I think it looks better.

I need to get back out to the garage and make some more custom brackets for my dash. I can tell everyone that mounting the dash the way I am doing it is a pain in the A$$. It's real tricky to get everything lined up the way I want it. The dash is like a wet noodle. You push on it in one area and it bulges out somewhere else.

If I would have had the benefit of Roy's work on the mule when I started this I never would have chosen to do it this way. I'm hoping I can make it acceptable though.

- Jonathan (Jscott1)

jscott1 MSG #360, 01-07-2003 01:13 AM
      If anyone is contemplating the Firebird gauges swap here is the wiring diagram, and instructions how to read it.

There are three connectors for the Fiero cluster. C1, C2, C3. The majority of the functions go thought C3. A couple through C2, and only the speedometer through C1.

You will leave the circuit board for C1 behind the dash, (for ECM divide by two function) so you really only tap into one wire there.

C1 is the connector on the bottom of the cluster to this board and it's "lettered" from A to U. I tapped into the "M" (BRN) for the speedo which is the electrohydraulic power steering output. I have no idea if non-88s have this implemented. If not then you have to use VSS high "S" (YEL) Roy can confirm this.

C2 is numbered from 1 to 12 starting with 1 in the 4 o' clock position.

C3 is numbered from 1 to 18 with 1 in the 1 o'clock position.

On the Firebird there is one connector with 34 pins in two rows. Top row is A1 to A17 and bottom row is B1 to B17 both starting on the left.

(these are all described as viewing the cluster, not the connector)

If you are in doubt which is pin 1 you can cross reference by the color and it should be obvious.

If I have made an error in describing this, perhaps someone can help me out, but I know my gauges work, so I must have done it right at least once

So here it is:

I've printed this sideways to maximixe resolution. You can ignore the custom harness colors. They are specific to my car and unless you choose to wire yours the same way those designations are meaningless. Good luck.



Smoooooth GT MSG #361, 01-07-2003 01:22 AM
      I was DEAD-SET on designing my own dash/door panel's and center column not to mention all new custom iterior piece's.... NOW... I am really concidering on making this my next winter's project...



jscott1 MSG #362, 01-07-2003 03:39 AM
      I'm getting real close to having everything bolted down in the final locations. Just a few more custom brackets and I will be on the road again.



Blade_69 (delbanks@sbcglobal.net) MSG #363, 01-07-2003 01:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Hey guys,

I just wanted to pass along a picture and a big THANKS to Fred (RAREW66) for the fantastic piece of artwork. And what a pleasure to deal with. Pure polished stainless steel. I'm going to mount on my new computer cover. What do you think? Way Cool, huh?

Here's a picture of the computer cover from a little farther away.

Okay. How do we contact Fred? That would look too sweet on my sub grill.

rynelson85 (rynelson85@yahoo.com) MSG #364, 01-07-2003 01:42 PM
      <cough> Mr Mikes seats </cough>
-Ryan


mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #365, 01-07-2003 02:17 PM
      This is the link where I found Fred (RAREW66). I don't know how much custom work he's willing to do but it couldn't hurt to ask. He's A#1 in my book.


Whoops... Forgot the link:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/011750.html



RAREW66 (fbartemeyerjr@q.com) MSG #366, 01-07-2003 05:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Blade_69:

Okay. How do we contact Fred? That would look too sweet on my sub grill.

Blade_69, I sent you an e-mail



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #367, 01-07-2003 06:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by rynelson85:

<cough> Mr Mikes seats </cough>
-Ryan

Yep, that's next.

Roy


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #368, 01-10-2003 03:45 PM
      will that cluster work if run by a delco N* or short* computer? Or do you do some type of coversion for dig. gauges to run off of analog sensors. I am new to this and you may have answered this!

jscott1 MSG #369, 01-10-2003 08:06 PM
      All of the gauges in the Firebird cluster work off of the stock Fiero analog senders, with the exception of the gas gauge. It is looking for a digital signal from the powertrain control module, which the Fiero obviously does not have.

The solution Roy did was to replace the gas gauge with an older analog version. I hope that helps.

PBJ (pbjt@sympatico.ca) MSG #370, 01-10-2003 08:42 PM
      Our 94-95 cluster with non digital odometer seems to work the fuel gauge the same as fiero.

[This message has been edited by PBJ (edited 01-10-2003).]

jscott1 MSG #371, 01-10-2003 09:04 PM
      I'm not surprised the older gas gauge works fine. My service manual states that it's a analog gauge in one section and digital in the other. So I fgured it changed somewhere along the way.

But I have the digital odometer and the more modern gauge overlay so I still like the one I have better.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #372, 01-10-2003 09:36 PM
      what about the tach, can you adapt a v8 tach to a v6 is it hard to do, and wich one has a higher red line? are the speedos the same top speed or do they differ? I do realy like what I see and look forward to doing one of my own, do you have pics of the finnished car or is it not done yet?

PBJ (pbjt@sympatico.ca) MSG #373, 01-10-2003 10:01 PM
      This is a pic of a V6 firebird cluster with kms and no digital odometer.


jscott1 MSG #374, 01-10-2003 11:32 PM
      PBJ's picture of course shows a metric speedo. Mine is from a 3800 V6 and therefore did not need to be converted. I have no idea how to convert a Firebird speedo or tach.

My speedo maxes out at 120 MPH and the tach redlines at 6,000. The actual redline for the engine is stored in the ECM so it doesn't matter what's printed on the tach.


I still have about a dozen little things I need to finish.



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #375, 01-11-2003 09:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by PBJ:

Our 94-95 cluster with non digital odometer seems to work the fuel gauge the same as fiero.

[This message has been edited by PBJ (edited 01-10-2003).]

That's interesting. Mine had to be replaced with an older gauge to work correctly. One thing I didn't try was to remove the resistor that was on one of the traces. Perhaps that would have removed the factory bias and allowed the gauge to regester properly. Not really a big deal. I already had the replacement gauge and it only took about an hour to install it.

PBJ -- Does yours register "full" when energized? That's waht mine did. I only had 1/2 tank of gas so I know it was wrong.

Roy


PBJ (pbjt@sympatico.ca) MSG #376, 01-11-2003 09:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Does yours register "full" when energized? That's waht mine did. I only had 1/2 tank of gas so I know it was wrong.

Roy

No it reads 3/4 of a tank, thats what the fiero one read too and is the amount of gas I have in there.



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #377, 01-11-2003 09:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by PBJ:

No it reads 3/4 of a tank, thats what the fiero one read too and is the amount of gas I have in there.

Well, maybe the 1/2" of water that the cluster was sitting in when I found it had something to do with my in-op gas gauge. I know it works now, I ran most of it out yesterday on a round trip to Mr. Mike's.

Roy

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #378, 01-11-2003 09:21 PM
      Here's a couple of pictures of my finished door panels. What do ya think?

Roy

DaRkLoRD (chaosproject@gmail.com) MSG #379, 01-11-2003 09:27 PM
      wow... I like it.

now it needs matching grey Mr. Mikes seats!



WMac MSG #380, 01-11-2003 09:28 PM
      Congrats, Roy. And I tip my hat too you
Thats AWSOME............



jscott1 MSG #381, 01-11-2003 09:36 PM
      Totally awesome ...

Add the Firebird steering wheel and it would be identical to a Firebird.

My hat's off to you as well

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 01-11-2003).]

Her86GT (becky.heidt@sympatico.ca) MSG #382, 01-11-2003 09:39 PM
      Looks great!

Haagster MSG #383, 01-11-2003 09:42 PM
      Two thumbs up!!

the need for speed (dewalker3@attbi.com) MSG #384, 01-11-2003 11:18 PM
      is the steering wheel in the all the way up position?can u drive it in that position and see all the gauges and the road,or are you going to move it down some?

Smoooooth GT MSG #385, 01-11-2003 11:53 PM
      OMG!! I am soooo jealous... Naaa, just give's something for everyone to shoot for!!

Steve



ltlfrari (dave_ellis_@hotmail.com) MSG #386, 01-12-2003 11:44 AM
      Those doors are awsome!!

Dave http://www.ltlfrari.com

OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #387, 01-13-2003 10:44 PM
      Wow I have been gone for a while, this up to page 10, and it needs a little bump as well.

seadog MSG #388, 01-14-2003 08:14 PM
      Very nice Roy! got that "new car smell" now huh. We gotta get over and see this in person.


timmer MSG #389, 01-14-2003 09:12 PM
      due your install and update for the fiero interior rock . keep up the mods

jscott1 MSG #390, 01-14-2003 10:11 PM
      It must have taken a month for the "Fiero smell" to go away after I stripped out my interior. Unfortunately I went with used carpet and seat covers so I didn't really get the new car smell. I plan to get new carpet and Mr Mikes leather some day. Then I will really have the new car smell.

For those that don't want to cut and weld, here is the final dash placement that I ended up with. Compare the gap over the steering wheel with the one earlier on the page. You can see how I squeezed the dash closer to the column. Also note that the cupholder is deployed!

I am still waiting to get my replacement gas gauge so the cluster bezel is not installed. The people I bought the gauge from have been stringing me along for almost a month now. I should have just gone to the junkyard

Anyway I am starting on Phase I-A and that is the entertainment system...stay tuned

- Jonathan

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 01-14-2003).]

BV MotorSports (sbvincent@yahoo.com) MSG #391, 01-15-2003 01:15 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Here's a couple of pictures of my finished door panels. What do ya think?

Roy


Roy, its amazing to think we were talking about this swap while I was down visiting JR. I am soooo gonna come down to FLA and kidnap you and your car and not release you till you put that interior into my car! WOW!!!!!!!!!!

You da man!

Steven



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #392, 01-15-2003 07:50 AM
      Hey guys,

Thanks again for the kind words.

DaRKLoRD -- Mr Mike has my check.

the need for speed -- It's a tilt column and in the picture it's in the full "up" position. When it's in the driving position, I have an unobstructed view of every gauge.

Smoooooth -- Like you've never had an original idea . We're bound to see a LOT of Smooooth-isms on other peoples' cars.

seadog -- Well, come one over!

BV Motorsports -- Maybe we can make a deal... I mount the dash in your car and a 3800SC motor in mine and you can wire both!

To everyone, Thanks.
Roy


OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #393, 01-15-2003 11:24 AM
      Roy, jscott1, beautiful work you two, also a big thank you for making my job on this project a lot easier . I have not gotten as far as I would like to on my Fierbird dash conversion but I have been working on the Targa for a local show that occures here in Ohio, I spent 11 hours alone removing the seats out of the car, they were rusted in that badly, lol. But rest assured I will be in close contact with both of you when I get stuck somewhere on the dash project.

BV MotorSports (sbvincent@yahoo.com) MSG #394, 01-15-2003 11:36 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Hey guys,

Thanks again for the kind words.


BV Motorsports -- Maybe we can make a deal... I mount the dash in your car and a 3800SC motor in mine and you can wire both!

To everyone, Thanks.
Roy

Hmmmm what about the door panels and center console? But it if thats all you want (38sc wired) consider this a cyber handshake!

Really, Roy, you made it look better than I ever dreamed of. Thats awsome!

Steven



Blade_69 (delbanks@sbcglobal.net) MSG #395, 01-15-2003 03:58 PM
      Ummmm. Just a passing thought. How about a nicely trimmed piece of material shaped around the gap to cover it up?

GTFiero1 (fierogt5speed@aol.com) MSG #396, 01-15-2003 08:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Here's a couple of pictures of my finished door panels. What do ya think?

Roy

*prints out pick, picks up, looks at it, slowly carries it to the bathroom, shuts and locks door...*

haha, you dash and door panels look really awsome, i wish i had half your talent!



Formula MSG #397, 01-15-2003 09:01 PM
      I'm tempted to rip the interior out of my firebird...........



jscott1 MSG #398, 01-15-2003 09:32 PM
      Rip out your Firebird interior...and put it in your Fiero?

Songman MSG #399, 01-15-2003 11:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Sorry. Let me try that last one again.

This is sorta the same thing I mentioned way back in the first couple of pages of this thread. Except my idea was to cover the entire back section and make it look like a C5 Corvette Roadster. Nice work!

JanusSolSumnus (janus@csbadboyz.net) MSG #400, 01-16-2003 04:20 AM
      I had a question, I think it was already mentioned but I'm not sure so I shall ask again. I plan to use a 2000 Grand Prix GTP interior when I start my Fiero project. However I am not sure it(along with doors and console) will fit. The dash for the Grand Prix GTP is 54 1/2".

Here is a qoute from a guy off ClibGP's forums:
"I stretched my tape measure over the dash between the A pillars and saw 54.5" - note that this was with the tape measure resting on the highest portion of the dash."

Is this accurate to what I need for the Fiero?

[This message has been edited by JanusSolSumnus (edited 01-16-2003).]

[This message has been edited by JanusSolSumnus (edited 01-16-2003).]

JanusSolSumnus (janus@csbadboyz.net) MSG #401, 01-16-2003 04:50 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

I'm getting real close to having everything bolted down in the final locations. Just a few more custom brackets and I will be on the road again.


Yet another post of mine, soon I will classify under "spam" lol

For the silver accents on the dash and such what did you use? Is there a Vinyle dye(I HOPE!) that gives this effect or regular paint, or what?

Thanks

Blade_69 (delbanks@sbcglobal.net) MSG #402, 01-16-2003 12:01 PM
      Hey Jannus. Earlier in this thread he posted a pic of that piece when he finished it. I believe he painted it. I know it may take a while but go through like the last 4 or 5 pages. I'm almost sure it's within those pages.

[This message has been edited by Blade_69 (edited 01-16-2003).]

jscott1 MSG #403, 01-16-2003 02:29 PM
      You're right that it's paint, but it's a two step process that I discovered by accident.

I start with chrome spray paint. That gives it a shiny almost mirror like finish. Then after it's dry I hit it with clear coat. That dulls it a bit, but gives it a brushed aluminum/titanium look with a high gloss finish. Which I like better than the shiny chrome look.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 01-16-2003).]

JanusSolSumnus (janus@csbadboyz.net) MSG #404, 01-16-2003 07:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

You're right that it's paint, but it's a two step process that I discovered by accident.

I start with chrome spray paint. That gives it a shiny almost mirror like finish. Then after it's dry I hit it with clear coat. That dulls it a bit, but gives it a brushed aluminum/titanium look with a high gloss finish. Which I like better than the shiny chrome look.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 01-16-2003).]


Cant say I dont agree to that. Thanks man. Hmm, once this thread starts to calm down I'm gonna print it all out for my database. lol


jscott1 MSG #405, 01-16-2003 09:21 PM
      I was wondering if anyone was paying as close attention to my pictures as the Stinger spy photos. If so then they might wonder why this console piece is painted in the picture dated 1/7/2003:

But in the pic dated 1/14/2003 it is not:

What's up with that?

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 01-16-2003).]

zachakagoat (steelman@clnk.com) MSG #406, 01-16-2003 10:22 PM
      hey guys, I love this interior! I have sat for the past 2 hours reading every post on this thread. I was wondering what all would have to be done to get the center console to mount up with an automatic and if the dash would interfior with the shifting.


jscott1 MSG #407, 01-17-2003 12:54 AM
      You could stick with the stock automatic console as PBJ has done. Or you could position the dash in such a way it's compatible with the auto.

The auto shifter in the Fiero defintitely is more forward than the 5 speed, however, I suspect that if you mount the dash where Roy has his it would work with the Firebird auto console.

Nashco (nashco@hotmail.com) MSG #408, 01-17-2003 01:44 AM
      Damn, this is a fantastic thread! I've been away for...well, several pages on this thread. You guys are contributing fabulously; I admire your work ethic and ability to so finely detail the project.

Keep up the good work!

Bryce
88 GT


mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #409, 01-18-2003 08:42 AM
      I hesitate in placing this message here because I don't want to distract from this thread but, if you'd like to follow my documentation on my build-up you can just double-click on the link in my signiture. I would appreciate any constructive critisim as the documentation will eventually be converted to a web site.

Thanks,



JEDI MSG #410, 01-18-2003 08:48 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

I hesitate in placing this message here because I don't want to distract from this thread but, if you'd like to follow my documentation on my build-up you can just double-click on the link in my signiture. I would appreciate any constructive critisim as the documentation will eventually be converted to a web site.

Thanks,


Roy, I just realized your not far from me. Do you go to the local meetings often?

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #411, 01-18-2003 03:20 PM
      I'll be in Daytona in March.

Roy

jscott1 MSG #412, 01-26-2003 11:22 PM
     

I finally got my gas gauge from a 1980 Firebird to go in my 1998 cluster for my 1988 Fiero. It will require a little bit of surgery to get it installed, but that is the last major task I have before completing all the cosmetic changes.

Here is a sneak preview if what's coming next:



1986GTV8 MSG #413, 02-08-2003 11:02 AM
      Bump

jscott1 MSG #414, 02-11-2003 11:09 PM
      I thought I would never get the fuel gauge installed but it's finally done!

I had to remove the faceplate of the gauges and then I used clear silicone RTV to attach the 1980 Firebird gauge directly to the faceplate. I wired it directly to the sender, completely bypassing the 4th gen f-body circuit.

Today's result:

By the way, I will be bringing Proud-2 to the Florida Fiero Weekend in Daytona next month so I am rushing to get to a convenient stopping point in my conversion.

- Jonathan (JScott1)



jscott1 MSG #415, 02-11-2003 11:19 PM
      In keping a promise to Mrfixit58 (Roy), I traced the outline of the overlay for the later version Firebird gauge.

Here is the trace for anybody that's interested. (you may have to resize)



Texas87GT (tomasj7@gmail.com) MSG #416, 02-12-2003 11:02 PM
      Did you ever finish the door panels..and how do they look?

jscott1 MSG #417, 02-13-2003 12:58 AM
      No, the door panels look the same as they did in November. That's one of about a dozen little things I need to finish. The center console, and the filler panel between the dash and windshield are two others.

Now that all the major mechanical and electrical work is complete I can focus on making it look "pretty". It's going to be tough to make my door panels look as good as Roy's (Mrfixit58) since I don't have Mr. Mike on tap to cover them for me

- Jonathan

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #418, 02-13-2003 06:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

....It's going to be tough to make my door panels look as good as Roy's (Mrfixit58) since I don't have Mr. Mike on tap to cover them for me

- Jonathan

Whoa there partner... I covered the door panels. I just consulted with Mr. Mike and bought the vinyl from him - That way the color of the panels match the seats (which is the ONLY work anyone did for me duing the conversion). ALL the work, applying and shaping the foam, applying the vinyl, etc. - I did it.

Just to keep the record straight .



jscott1 MSG #419, 02-13-2003 07:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Whoa there partner... I covered the door panels.

Sorry Roy, I think I might have touched a nerve there Then all the credit goes to YOU. I really like the way your door panels turned out.

Do you have the Mr Mike's seat covers installed yet? It was originally in my plan to do Mr Mike's seats but I scaled back a little bit, (though not much because the original 88 cloth seat skins cost almost just as much)

By the way, I'll finally get to meet you in Daytona!!



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #420, 02-13-2003 08:09 PM
      Not really a nerve, like I said, just keeping the record straight . Yes, I did break down and buy Mr Mike seats and got the installed over the weekend. I'll take a couple of shots and send them to you. It won't be until next week. The wife and I are leaving in the morning for San Francisco for a few days for our anniversary.

Fantastic news about Daytona. It'll be great to fianlly meet you IN PERSON.

Keep up the good work,
Roy


TEW (timw@erols.com) MSG #421, 02-16-2003 11:26 PM
      Roy
I'm new here. Just discovered this thread and scanned through all 11 pages!
I just purchased an original Fiero Mera (308 replica). I was looking at some of the 355 interior kits prior to discovering this thread.
Let me ask what MAY be a stupid question:
Would you consider doing a F interior conversion on my car for a fee?


TEW (timw@erols.com) MSG #422, 02-21-2003 06:56 PM
      Who makes the Pirahna dash / kit pictured on the first page of this thread?
The dash looks very similar to a Mitsubishi 3000GT.
Was this converted from a 3000GT or Dodge Stealth?


jscott1 MSG #423, 02-21-2003 10:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TEW:

Who makes the Pirahna dash / kit pictured on the first page of this thread?
The dash looks very similar to a Mitsubishi 3000GT.
Was this converted from a 3000GT or Dodge Stealth?


The Pyranha is a Russian design that is like the holy grail of Fiero Interiors. Virtually everybody likes it, but it is no longer available. About every 6 months someone claims that it is going back into production, but I have yet to see it actually offered for sale.

I decided to do a pyranha inspired custom interior, but somewhere along the way decided that an F-body interior was about the same thing. If you look closely at the pyranha it appears to me that it uses f-body parts, especially in the pull pockets for the doors.

So I would suggest that if you like the pyranha, then use the f-body as a starting point and customize from there. I hope that helps.



Blade_69 (delbanks@sbcglobal.net) MSG #424, 02-22-2003 11:41 AM
      Hey JScott. How hard was it to do your door panels? I know I don't have the skills yet to do the dash. But I would like to at least do the doors. I think it will add a nicer look and feel to the interior with the stock dash.


jscott1 MSG #425, 02-22-2003 01:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

The door panels are one of the trickier areas. I chose to use Firebird panels and then trim off the front and rear portions and then adapt them to the Fiero. This also involves new door handles, window and door lock switches, and speakers. It also replaces the inner dew wipes.

What I haven't done yet is to make the ends "pretty" where I cut them off. A lot of people are concerned about that but I am confident I can make it work.

Roy decided to take a different path and use the Fiero door panel and smooth it out and attach the firebird handle and latch. Then cover it with vinyl. That sounded like more work to me, but his results should be about the same or better than mine.

There are pros and cons to each method, you have to decide which is better. You can look at the pictures to judge which looks better to you.

Jonathan (JScott1)

You can see from this flashback that the door panels are about as involved as the dash if not more. Roy (MrFixit58) decided not to mess with the Firebird door panels. Initially I thought his method was more involved yet he is finished and I am still working on mine

Up until now I have always cleverly photographed my door panels such that you didn't see the cut off ends. The reason is that up until now I have had other things with higher priority to finish before I had time to make the ends pretty. But that's what I'm about to start working on right now. I feel pretty confident I can make them look visually pleasing.




AgaricX (skyline@infinissan.com) MSG #426, 02-23-2003 12:45 AM
      Please keep us posted!!!

I'm more interested in the panels / wiring than I am the dash now!!



Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #427, 02-23-2003 11:02 AM
      Which year did the door panels come from?

And yes, please keep us informed

Tim


Songman MSG #428, 02-23-2003 12:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TEW:

Roy
I'm new here. Just discovered this thread and scanned through all 11 pages!
I just purchased an original Fiero Mera (308 replica). I was looking at some of the 355 interior kits prior to discovering this thread.
Let me ask what MAY be a stupid question:
Would you consider doing a F interior conversion on my car for a fee?

I hope this doesn't take away from the original subject of this thread but this has been being discussed a lot lately... As the car owner, I wouldn't consider making any drastic changes on a Mera. If you want that, buy a 308 kit somewhere and then build your custom interior. No way, no how, I would change an original Mera. There are just too few of them around. Why kill any potential long term value that might be there... Of course, it is your car and you may do as you wish. We would love to see some pictures though...

As far as F-body dashes, I would love to find one to throw in the 85 GT but ANY F-body I find, the dash is mangled. You guys got lucky finding them in good shape!



FierosUnlimited (fierosunlimited@cox.net) MSG #429, 02-25-2003 02:14 AM
      You guys are doing a great job. I have been sitting here for hours fascinated by the interiors you have been doing. I should probably consider myself divoriced and my wife a computer widow... lol... i am going to the junkyard tomorrow to buy one of these dashes and to do a fastback swap... i will keep you posted on my progress... thnx for the inspiration!



FierosUnlimited (fierosunlimited@cox.net) MSG #430, 02-27-2003 01:49 PM
      Alright...
I went to the yards and they priced me 150 for the dash w/o broken airbags and 100 for both door panels with switches and handles... and 75 for the middle console. This seems a bit too rich for my blood right now but i may go and buy either just the dash or just the door panels...
mrfixit58- i have a question. how much was the reupholstry of your panels??

thnx
Daniel


jscott1 MSG #431, 02-27-2003 02:31 PM
      Daniel,

Welcome to the forum.

I would suggest that you are getting a great deal of the Firebird parts. There will always be somebody somewhere that will get a better deal but yours sounds fair to me. I paid a lot more because I had a dash shipped to me from a body shop in detroit to houston, (not cheap).

And the rest of my parts I got on ebay and had to build up everything from scratch. If you can get the wiring harnesess and connectors that's even better.


mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #432, 02-27-2003 05:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FierosUnlimited:

Alright...
I went to the yards and they priced me 150 for the dash w/o broken airbags and 100 for both door panels with switches and handles... and 75 for the middle console. This seems a bit too rich for my blood right now but i may go and buy either just the dash or just the door panels...
mrfixit58- i have a question. how much was the reupholstry of your panels??

thnx
Daniel


Hey Daniel,

Actually, $150 for an unbroken dash is a pretty good deal. You may be able to remove the passenger side air bag and re-sell it to cover most of the cost of the entire dash.

As far as the door panels go, I got the arm rests for free because I was buying other stuff at the time and the door panels were busted up. The guy at the yard considered them junk but all I wanted was the arm rests. I probably spent about $30 on fiberglass, fiberglass reinforced filler and plastic filler and another $40 on the vinyl and $30 on padding. The door handle pull pockets and door latch handles were another free-bee because I was buying other stuff (this was at a different salvage yard). So totally... in round numbers... around $100 for the door panels. Not including the door speakers, of course.

Roy


FierosUnlimited (fierosunlimited@cox.net) MSG #433, 03-01-2003 09:16 AM
      so what exactly do i need from the donor car when i buy it???? any lists you guys can give me when i go back this week????

Daniel

FierosUnlimited (fierosunlimited@cox.net) MSG #434, 03-04-2003 12:43 PM
      Mrfixit58- Is there any way that i could pay you to make the door pannels and the computer cover??? that would be great as i am no good with that kind of stuff.

Daniel

Blade_69 (delbanks@sbcglobal.net) MSG #435, 03-04-2003 03:31 PM
      I'd be interested in just having the door panels done as I'm placing a sub in my center console. What do you say Roy?



FierosUnlimited (fierosunlimited@cox.net) MSG #436, 03-07-2003 08:28 PM
      Hey JSCOTT1 i was wondering where you got the screen and how much it was... i am designing an in dash computer that reads off the ecm and i was wondering if that would be compatible... what kind of connector does it use???

ps here is my new thread http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/026886.html



speedracerfx (mmacb78498@aol.com) MSG #437, 03-09-2003 09:40 PM
      Wow!! I just read all 11 pages, and I'm definately doing this swap. (I've already started looking for parts) My only concern is, does anyone know if the tach can be recalibrated for a 4-cylinder?


Ian

[This message has been edited by speedracerfx (edited 03-09-2003).]

jscott1 MSG #438, 03-19-2003 02:05 AM
      Whew...just "finished" my mad scramble to get ready for Daytona this weekend.

In the last few days I had left I decided I would rather have working DVD so some things fell off the plate. Like the panel between the dash and the windshield. I'm sorry to say that the prototype is installed and not the final piece. The paint is still drying on some of the parts that I installed.

There are quite a few pieces held together with duct tape and I don't think it's going to win any awards this way but that's okay too. But at least I have a headliner for the first time in 6 months

I'm just really glad to be at a stopping point and can enjoy the car for the weekend. See you in Daytona!!



jscott1 MSG #439, 03-19-2003 02:10 AM
      More Pics



Smoooooth GT MSG #440, 03-19-2003 02:45 AM
      still am amazed!



soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #441, 03-20-2003 04:39 AM
      looks like you figured out somn for those dooes.. do you have some closeups of them?? I am more than interested in how you decided to do the doors.

It looks like you fabricated some trim plates and put them on. But then again, this monitor sucks that I am on right now, so its hard to tell if you really did anything to the doors yet.

Wholf (hwholf@hotmail.com) MSG #442, 03-27-2003 11:00 PM
      http://www.tekchip.com/ferrari/fiero_fusion.asp
This is the inspiration we got from this post. My friend James Galindo is doing a 1997 240 SX interior, while I decided to go with the Firebird Interior. The site is new, and we are always updating it. Mostly with pictures because that is all the time we have for now.

[This message has been edited by Wholf (edited 04-06-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Wholf (edited 04-06-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Wholf (edited 12-09-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Wholf (edited 02-26-2004).]

jscott1 MSG #443, 03-28-2003 12:27 AM
      Hey Soup,

I did form end caps, (of a sort) for the doors...for the trip to Daytona I covered the ends with Black Duct Tape. From about 6 feet away it doesn't look too bad. The real end caps will look a lot like that, I just haven't had time to make them yet.



mcaanda (mcaanda@gmail.com) MSG #444, 03-29-2003 11:31 AM
      OMG.....so meany questions, where do I start....

I have already informed my finincial manager that as soon as I get my GT here, I am junkyard shopping.....
Oh that door.....more pics..more info on how to create that...

Great work guys, is there any chance that there can be a install manual created? Esp for the digital dash & the wiring of all the gauges and such?



jscott1 MSG #445, 03-29-2003 12:06 PM
      Mcaanda, Welcome to the forum and to the official Firebird Interior swap thread. If you look at any recent post for Mrfixit58, in his signature he has a link to the tech tech section where he talks in detail about his swap.

My swap is not completed yet, and since I am, (so far as I know) the only person to attempt the Firebird door panels, this thread contains all there is to know about it.

In a nutshell you have to trim about a foot off the rear of the panel a triangular section off the front and relocate the door latch mechanism. The upper and lower dimensions are close enough that you don't have to do anything. I'll be glad to help in any way that I can.

Most of my wiring diagrams are hard copy only. If you need something specific I can scan it for you. Good luck.

- Jonathan



soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #446, 04-03-2003 04:10 PM
      Hey JScott, any update on the panels.



jscott1 MSG #447, 04-04-2003 02:28 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by soup:

Hey JScott, any update on the panels.

Nothing to report on the door panels, but for those who saw my car at Daytona recall that I was only days into my DVD install on top of the dash...

The temporary cover consisted of cardboard and black duct tape. Well I have just about completed the custom piece to close out the area on the top of the dash.


It should be painted and installed in the next couple of days. The door panels are next.



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #448, 04-04-2003 04:18 PM
      Hey Jonathan,

That looks pretty good for someone who's never done something like that before. You may have a little problem at the edges and may need to feather it some more. Did you rough the plastic up real good before applying the filler so it would hold better? Are you going to paint it yourself of have someone else do it? I recommend using a 2K high build primer and blocking the area with 220 grit to make it smooth and level. Then hit it again with the primer and 400 grit before painting.

Keep it up,



jscott1 MSG #449, 04-04-2003 07:36 PM
      Thanks Roy for the sanding and painting tips. The only way to get the custom shape up top was to go with fiberglass so I had to give it a try. I started with the stock Firebird panel and hand laid the fiberglass over it. I roughted it with 40 grit so it should stick pretty good. Also recall that the stock piece has the vent in this area, so in effect the fiberglass is sandwiched on top and bottom so it is very strong. I will add the stock fiero defroster vent in the stock location from an old fiero dash.

Yeah I know I have a lot more sanding before I can even think about priming. I am still working on the little ears on either end, and I may add tweeters on the a-pillars to hold them down,(even thought I already have dual tweeters up front). I figure if this doesn't work I can always try again on another piece.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-04-2003).]

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #450, 04-04-2003 10:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

... and I may add tweeters on the a-pillars to hold them down,(even thought I already have dual tweeters up front). ...
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-04-2003).]

Now, where did you come up with that idea?


Keep up the good job,
Roy


jscott1 MSG #451, 04-04-2003 10:43 PM
      Yeah Roy I forgot to give you credit for the tweeter idea. You and I know it was your idea but for the general reader I don't want to mislead them into thinking I stole your idea.

The other thought I had was to modify the a-pillar trim to incorporate a gauge or switch pod like PBJ is doing. Or I may come up with something original

Haagster MSG #452, 04-04-2003 11:11 PM
      Ya know something. The more I see about this swap, the more I am liking it. Is anyone planning to show their work at Carlisle in May?

Jonathan and Roy - Great work!!

PBJ (pbjt@sympatico.ca) MSG #453, 04-05-2003 12:01 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Haagster:

Is anyone planning to show their work at Carlisle in May?

Jonathan and Roy - Great work!!

Ours will be there, Is firebird dash only. Factory fiero door pannels and center console

Pete



jscott1 MSG #454, 04-05-2003 12:22 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by PBJ:

Ours will be there, Is firebird dash only. Factory fiero door pannels and center console

Pete

Unfortunately I won't be able to attend Carlisle. that's a long haul from Texas.

If I ever get subtantially complete I will be compelled to bring Proud-2 to large national shows. It will be the most complete firebird swap in terms of parts: dash, console, door panels, steering wheel, airbag, even sunvisors with the airbag warning label


Haagster MSG #455, 04-05-2003 12:44 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by PBJ:
Ours will be there, Is firebird dash only. Factory fiero door pannels and center console

I forgot about your thread. I am looking forward to seeing your progress on the interior and engine in May!!


jscott1 MSG #456, 04-08-2003 11:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Wholf:

http://www.chronopulse.com/ferrari/fiero_fusion.asp
This is the inspiration we got from this post. My friend James Galindo is doing a 1997 240 SX interior, while I decided to go with the Firebird Interior. The site is new, and we are always updating it. Mostly with pictures because that is all the time we have for now.

[This message has been edited by Wholf (edited 04-06-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Wholf (edited 04-06-2003).]

Will you look at this!! Another Firebird swap into a Fiero, and done dramatically in red and black. I'm definitely going to add some color to my interior before all is said and done.



IROC (zigdog16@comcast.net) MSG #457, 04-08-2003 11:42 PM
      Does anyone have a webpage with step by step instructions on converting to a 4th Gen Firebird interior and how to wire in the new dash to?

IROC



jscott1 MSG #458, 04-09-2003 02:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by IROC:

Does anyone have a webpage with step by step instructions on converting to a 4th Gen Firebird interior and how to wire in the new dash to?

IROC

Mrfixit58 (Roy) has a thread in the technical section that talks about his build up
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/031255.html



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #459, 04-09-2003 05:40 PM
      Thanks for the plug Jonathan. The link in my signiture will walk you through the basic requirements to install the dash. The electrical for the environmental control panel and the headlight switch are posted in this thread (don't remember which page).

Roy

JanusSolSumnus (janus@csbadboyz.net) MSG #460, 05-18-2003 03:20 AM
      Hey guys, I've been gone a long time. I've moved, graduated and since had a change of passions.

The Fiero has now moved down the list in light of a 01' Bullitt Mustang project. My deal is I need a good show car to premiere my shop with and the Bullitt with my plans seems to be the best idea. Under all of that will be a 5.4DOHC and a specially tuned suspension. However, after coming back here the love of the Fiero has once again touched me and I am torn. Between fighting the ideas of these two I have the plans for a 46' Ford chop-top coupe with a 4.6L Ford modular V8 with a Cobra IRS suspension...

If I do manage to put the Fiero ahead of the Bullitt I have my list already made for a complete redesign of the suspension, a 3800 Series III S'charged engine, 00' GTP interior, "Liquid Metal - Prime Time Red" paint, and many other little things. I dont go in 1/4 of the way... I either spend to much or dont spend anything.

agh, enough of my rambling for tonight. I'll post some more tomorrow. I'm glad to be back and see the regulars again, if you guys even remember me...hehe

Nite,
~Kirs

[This message has been edited by JanusSolSumnus (edited 05-18-2003).]

[This message has been edited by JanusSolSumnus (edited 05-18-2003).]

1986GTV8 MSG #461, 05-19-2003 10:00 AM
      Where are you in Clermont?

I am just off od 27 & 54, near Haines City, Polk County.


JanusSolSumnus (janus@csbadboyz.net) MSG #462, 05-19-2003 12:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 1986GTV8:

Where are you in Clermont?

I am just off od 27 & 54, near Haines City, Polk County.

I live down on Lake Shore dr., 1/2mi. off of H.W. 27 and H.W. 50.

~Kris


DKOV (dkov@pacifier.com) MSG #463, 05-19-2003 01:02 PM
      http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/014269.html

Just thought I'd offer another alternative in here

DKOV -
DMS


jscott1 MSG #464, 05-19-2003 01:06 PM
      Kris, Glad to have you back and checking on this old thread and keeping it alive.

I still have not substantially completed my Firebird Interior. This is taking almost as long as the Smoooooth GT

I haven't been able to touch it in a month, but in this shot from the Texas Round-Up in San Antonio I have roughed in the fiberglass piece on top of the dash:

I am expecting to get a lot done this long Memorial Day Weekend and should have some interesting things to show.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 05-19-2003).]

soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #465, 05-31-2003 08:16 PM
      I have no idea when memorial day weekend is, but I imagine it is past, so... anything to report

I am real interested to see the door panels, and how you capped them.



jscott1 MSG #466, 05-31-2003 08:40 PM
      Forgot that Memorial Day was a US Holiday.

Anyway, that was last weekend and that was my weekend to install the T-tops. Despite the warnings from MrFixit58 I started a new project before finishing the old one, but they look good.

Now I have a whole new slug of work to get completed before I can turn my attention back to the door panels. I am in the middle of painting the interior trim for the T-Top, then I have to re-do the headliner. Put the quarter windows back on and then I can jump back in where I left off.

The fiberglass filler piece for my dash is nearly complete. After that experience I am planning to make the end caps for the door out of fiberglass as well.

Another milestone today was I passed the Texas Motor Vehicle Inspection, including the new (for my county) emissions testing. It's been a year now since I bought Proud-2 and this was it's first inspection since undergoing the Firebird conversion. I was a little nervous, but it's always fun when the inspector can't figure out where the engine is!

Jonathan




the need for speed (dewalker3@attbi.com) MSG #467, 05-31-2003 09:53 PM
      so how hard was it to put on the t tops?can u install them on a fiero with a sun roof?

[This message has been edited by the need for speed (edited 06-02-2003).]

jscott1 MSG #468, 05-31-2003 10:19 PM
      Read all about it here:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/029407.html


Kento (kento@triad.rr.com) MSG #469, 06-27-2003 03:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Mcaanda, Welcome to the forum and to the official Firebird Interior swap thread.

What other Cars did you look into for the correct sizes? Sunfire? Grand Am? Grand Prix? Bonniville????


jscott1 MSG #470, 06-28-2003 07:45 PM
      I did not look at any other cars. I actually bought a firebird dash thinking that I was going to use it as the basis for a custom dash. To my surprise it fit almost perfectly so I decided to do the whole firebird interior. Unknown to me at the time was that MrFixit58 was working on the same thing. As far as I know we were the first to try it.

Here's a couple of photos from my recent headliner installation:



85_sc (srsterr@students.wisc.edu) MSG #471, 07-01-2003 12:00 AM
      I just picked up a v6 cluster for the firebird dash when i removed my dash form my 86 z-28 i will trade it for a v-8 firebird cluster. Email me at scottsterr@hotmail.com Also the dash i pulled has some cracks in it does anybody know how to repair these well?

jscott1 MSG #472, 10-17-2003 02:09 AM
      My latest project thanks to Mrfixit58 and PBJ was to raise my steering column. The one part of my swap that I wasn't completely happy about is the gap that I had above the steering wheel.

When I first started my swap my goal was to not cut metal. I did the best I could with those groundrules but the gap remained. After seeing what Roy and Pete did on their Firebird dashes, and now that I'm not afaid of the sawzall anymore I decided to modify the column.

First I duplicated the bracket that Roy made. I had to relearn how to MIG weld and it's not as easy as it looks.

Then bolt it into place:

I didn't remove as much of the metal as Roy did, because my dash didn't have to go back as far.

And here is the result:

Now to get the car ready for the Red River Ruckus Redux in less than 2 days!!



Nashco (nashco@hotmail.com) MSG #473, 10-17-2003 03:42 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

First I duplicated the bracket that Roy made. I had to relearn how to MIG weld and it's not as easy as it looks.

Not sure if this is any help now, but a few tips for future welding. First, it doesn't look like you cleaned your surfaces before welding, which makes things MUCH more difficult. Ideally, you want to remove any paint and the galvanized coating on the materials you use. If you've got a bench grinder, this only takes a few seconds and makes your weld penetrate much better. Another thing to keep in mind when welding any galvanized materials is that the coating emits a *nasty* gas when it heats up, and I'm not just talking about the smell. That gas is toxic and should be avoided at all costs...the stuff will make you sick pretty easily if you expose yourself to it.

Perhaps you removed the bracket after a trial fit and did this, but another thing to keep in mind is that you should always put a coat of paint over any freshly welded parts. The weld and surrounding area will quickly show surface rust if you don't protect it, even on the inside of a car.

I'm VERY impressed with your install, definitely at the top of my list of cool dashes. I applaud you guys on selflessness in excellent documentation; although it may double your time invested in the project, it will surely save others countless hours and improve the Fieros in general.

Bryce
88 GT


jscott1 MSG #474, 10-17-2003 07:58 AM
      Thanks for the welding tips, will make sure to do what you said next time.

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #475, 10-17-2003 08:32 AM
      Looking good, Johnathan.

Roy

Muddy2 (fierosite@fieronews.com) MSG #476, 10-17-2003 09:27 AM
      looks awesome



the need for speed (dewalker3@attbi.com) MSG #477, 10-17-2003 09:30 AM
      hey jscott1 lets see some more pics of it all done!!!!

Boricuasoy (powernaudio@gmail.com) MSG #478, 10-17-2003 05:55 PM
      thats one of the best interior i have seen for a fiero. good job



jscott1 MSG #479, 10-17-2003 07:03 PM
      Thanks for the compliments! It may not be obvious in the pictures but the dash had to come completely out to do this mod. The bracket bolts in through the top with 4 inch long bolts.

I am frantically trying to reintergrate the dash and will take pictures when it's all complete. If you scroll up near the top of page 12 it will look a lot like that, (but without the gap above the column).

One of my brackets doesn't seem to be fitting right after the column move and has to be redesigned. Other than that my dash is pretty much back where it was before, only the column is higher. It makes getting into and out of the car a lot easier too.

OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #480, 11-19-2003 10:23 AM
      Wow, has it been that long since I satarted this tread????
Well for those who were interested in a kit for this conversion I have some bad news to tell. I do not think that I will be doing a kit so that anyone may install a Firebird dash into thier Fiero. After many months of research and work, and development I have decided against it for cost reasons.
What I have come up with is this, the kit to allow you to install a Firebird dash would cost between $750.00 - $900.00, and that would not include the cost of the dash that YOU would have to go find yourself. Most of the cost is from first production run materials and creating quality molds to produce the parts needed. When I looked at the over all price for what you got, and what you recieved I then asked myself would I buy such a kit? I came up with a quick answer of no I would not. With jscott and mrfixit threads and write ups, a few fabricating skills (nothing fancy) the project could be completed, dash included, for a fration of the price that I could offer for a kit that did not include the dash itself.
To say the least I am a little dissapointed in this outcome, but like I said would you spend that much for a kit when you could do a one off yourself at more than half that cost?


mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #481, 11-19-2003 11:53 AM
     
 
quote
Well for those who were interested in a kit for this conversion I have some bad news to tell. I do not think that I will be doing a kit so that anyone may install a Firebird dash into thier Fiero. After many months of research and work, and development I have decided against it for cost reasons.
What I have come up with is this, the kit to allow you to install a Firebird dash would cost between $750.00 - $900.00, and that would not include the cost of the dash that YOU would have to go find yourself. Most of the cost is from first production run materials and creating quality molds to produce the parts needed. When I looked at the over all price for what you got, and what you recieved I then asked myself would I buy such a kit? I came up with a quick answer of no I would not. With jscott and mrfixit threads and write ups, a few fabricating skills (nothing fancy) the project could be completed, dash included, for a fration of the price that I could offer for a kit that did not include the dash itself.

Well... to be honest... that's WHY I build my Firebird dash in the first place... the cost of aftermarket kits.

Lots of free labor... little dollars for parts.

Roy

[This message has been edited by mrfixit58 (edited 11-19-2003).]

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #482, 11-19-2003 01:29 PM
      Jon or Roy...
Do either of you have a clear pic of what you cut out of the internal frame to raise the column? I'm pretty familiar with what the frame looks like now that I'm doing my Grand Am dash swap, so I was wondering how you cut out that channel to raise the column, then tied it all together.

Did you raise this point?

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 11-19-2003).]

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #483, 11-19-2003 02:41 PM
      The part that you are pointing to is what I refer to as the snout. And, yes, I cut that piece off. I also bent the pinch-weld out of the way because I needed more space for the instrument cluster. In otder to gain even more height, I slit the tunnel above the column (under and behind the snout) and bent it up. This was done to make room for the ignition switch that's mounted on top of the column.

If you look at Jonathan's (jscott1) web site, I think he shows a picture.

I hope this helped,



jscott1 MSG #484, 11-19-2003 05:15 PM
      Actually I don't have a picture of that cut on my webpage, so I'll post it here. It's kind of hard to see within the confines of PIP but you can see my airbox, (which is white) and the cut of the "snout" My cut was only about 2 inches total.

Using Roy's method more has to be cut away to get the dash further back. It would look more like this practice cut I made on my parts car:

I hope this helps. I am still trying to get my interior cosmetically the way I want it. I have a list of about 50 things I want to do.

This is how it looked at the Red River Ruckus Redux:

Immediately following that event, I removed a bunch of stuff for rework so I don't have a good pic to show how it looks now.



OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #485, 12-23-2003 01:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Well... to be honest... that's WHY I build my Firebird dash in the first place... the cost of aftermarket kits.

Lots of free labor... little dollars for parts.

Roy

[This message has been edited by mrfixit58 (edited 11-19-2003).]

I know, but the whole idea was to give everyone another option at an updated dash for thier car, I was hopeing that with available parts from a junkyard that this would be a reasonably priced option I could offer the Fiero community. But such are things not meant to be I guess.
Oh well, at least you and jscott have given everyone a lot of insite on how to do this, I commend both of you for it and all the hard work you two put into it.
Hopeing I get to mine this summer, but school will tell me if I can, or can not have that time to devote to the project.


jscott1 MSG #486, 12-29-2003 03:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by OH10fiero:
...What I have come up with is this, the kit to allow you to install a Firebird dash would cost between $750.00 - $900.00, and that would not include the cost of the dash that YOU would have to go find yourself. ...

I have given this a lot of thought and there still seems to be quite a bit of interest in the Firebird Dash kit. I know that a turn key kit would cost more than what the typical Fiero owner would be willing to pay, but there might be a middle ground. Some have expressed interest in just the dash harness or the environmental controls. They could then do the fiberglass and the brackets themselves.

I have been asked a few times to build the harness, If I can squeeze in the time between my other projects I will look into the feasibility of building the harness. I would like to help the firebird dash be as common an upgrade as the grand am brakes or Pontiac CD player.

Jonathan



velocitysf MSG #487, 01-17-2004 05:22 PM
      I am just about done with the dash installation...I think I have all the wiring figured out, but does anyone know a good source for the Firebird guage cluster connecter...it would be easiest to splice this into the Fiero harness. A connector came with a harness attached to the dash, but it was from an 01 Firebird, and the wires were in all the wrong places (missing where the need to be on the earlier harness)...and in trying to move the connectors from the harness, I damaged some of the connectors, so it would be best to find one out of an earlier (96-ish) Firebird. Thanks.

ron

jscott1 MSG #488, 01-31-2004 10:34 PM
      Ron, I usually get everything I need off eBay. Not the cheapest place but convenient. If you see someone posting a bunch of firebird parts chances are that they are parting out the entire car; a quick email and you tell them you need the connector and they will sell it to you. That's how I got mine. Otherwise you can just solder direclty onto the terminals. I don't recommend it, but it can be done.

I think we are due for an update. I'd like to see some pics

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #489, 02-02-2004 09:47 AM
      Yea, pictures?

Have you tired the junk yards, yet? If you tell them what you're trying to do, I find that they'll usually let you have one cheap. Ask them for one at least 6" long so you'll have room to splice the Fiero wiring and be sure that the harness is the same year as the cluster. I know that 93-95 are the same. If you call your local GM parts supplier and ask him, he should be able to tell you what year clusters are the same.

Again, LET'S SEE SOME PICTURES!

Roy


Malakyt (malakyt@cox.net) MSG #490, 04-03-2004 06:46 AM
      Alright... one year later... after originally seeing this thread i decided to do the swap. First... I got the door panels. The drivers is cut and ready for install. The pass side is still leaning against the closet. It is raining so i cant get the drivers installed. My question is this. The dash i would get is as follows...
It has blown the airbags. But the dash is not broken. Comes with everything... steering collumn, gauge cluster, hvac controls, and wiring. The only problem is, this is the only one in the nearby junkyards and they are all auto. I need a manual shifter console. So if someone has one LMK. He wants 250 for it... but i think i am gonna talk him down. (he said he did a ferrari kit on a fiero once... heh....)
I pick the dash up on monday if I get it... but i am not sure if it is worth it... steering wheel is also blown.

:raises glass:
heres to a new interior



jscott1 MSG #491, 04-03-2004 12:21 PM
      Welcome to the Firebird Interior club...

I paid a lot more than $250 for what you describe so that's a good deal. The auto and manual consoles are the same except for the insert around the shifter. You can buy that separately on Ebay, or even brand new from the dealer if you are so inclined, (i've done both).

The airbag on the steering wheel can be replaced with two captive fasteners in about 30 seconds. I have a "live" aribag on my steering wheel although I don't think there is any danger as it is not hooked up to anything.

As I told you before capping the door panels is the hardest part. Roy build custom panels to avoid the problem, Wholf had his done professionally. I have just about finished mine, but I'm not quite ready to reveal what they look like. I have a bit more to do on my interior before I delcare it complete, after about 18 months. I'm sure it can be done quicker but I have to squeeze in garage time whenever I can. Good luck.

- Jonathan

EDIT - to help you with the door panel, here are the measurements I took on the drivers side. I then used those for the passenger side and it worked perfectly. The two holes are the holes left over after you remove the armrest support for the stock panels.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-03-2004).]

Malakyt (malakyt@cox.net) MSG #492, 04-03-2004 04:30 PM
      Thanks for the pictures Jontathan. I am having a time cutting my pannels. I ran out of dremel wheels so i have to wait to get some. Question for you: You guys were talking about a fuel gauge? what year works? I am pulling off a 94 firebird. Also do i need the hvac controls and the steering collum?

Thanx for all the info.

Avid fiero enthusiast
Daniel


jscott1 MSG #493, 04-03-2004 04:40 PM
      To cut my panels I used a reciprocating saw. Cuts through like butter. The dremel is a great tool, (I have two of them) but you will go through a bag of those disc on a cut that large.

The 94 fuel gauge should be fine...it was the ones in 97 and later that don't seem to work with the Fiero sender.

You don't have to have the hvac controls, you can fit the fiero controls into the opening...but the conversion is more convincing if you use the firebird. It's a pain because you have to replace that vacuum switch with a rotary switch.

And the steering column you don't need unless you plan to implement the steering wheel controls. Having said that I do have a column and plan to implement the steering wheel controls, but that's still on my list of things to do.

Let me know what else you need to know, and post pics as soon as you can.

- Jonathan

Malakyt (malakyt@cox.net) MSG #494, 04-03-2004 05:17 PM
      Ok thanx for everything Jonathan. I will go get another card for my camera tonight so i can take pics again. Does the firebird steering wheel fit on the stock steering collum? I will post pics after work. Later guys



jscott1 MSG #495, 04-03-2004 05:50 PM
      I had to file down a keyway to get the firebird steering wheel to fit on the Fiero column but that only took about 5 minutes at the most. You shouldn't have too much difficulty getting it on.

Malakyt (malakyt@cox.net) MSG #496, 04-04-2004 06:13 PM
      Thanks again Jon.
I have finished mounting/cutting the drivers side pannel. I need to cut and mount the handle then i am pretty much finished until i rip apart the dash for wiring. Card for my camera will be here tonight. I will take pics and then post them so you can see my progress. BTW how many of these are installed on fieros? is this number 4 or 5? See you guys tonight.

Daniel

PS jon could you post me a list of things to get for the dash while i am at the yard tomorrow. just so that i dont forget anything.

Malakyt (malakyt@cox.net) MSG #497, 04-05-2004 04:04 AM
      PICS!!! finally got pics... had to network two computers together to do it. But here are the pics of the door pannels. I had to re-cover the middle with leather.

There is a sneak peak. i will have the dash install pics tomorrow or the day after.



Malakyt (malakyt@cox.net) MSG #498, 04-05-2004 03:40 PM
      Do i need the wiring harness for the dash??? i need to know soon b4 i go to pick it up.

Daniel

Malakyt (malakyt@cox.net) MSG #499, 04-05-2004 07:54 PM
      Ok i went and bought the dash today. I did not recieve word back from Jon so i didnt pick up the wiring harness. Here are the pics of it in the car. Read for pickup tomorrow morning.

and here is something entirely too funny... what happened to the rest of the car? Now i know why the airbags went off...

-Daniel

jscott1 MSG #500, 04-05-2004 08:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Malakyt:
Ok i went and bought the dash today. I did not recieve word back from Jon so i didnt pick up the wiring harness. Here are the pics of it in the car. Read for pickup tomorrow morning.-Daniel

Sorry Daniel, for not getting back to you...I actually spent the day with my son at Astroworld, instead of in front of the computer.

You chose wisely, you don't need the dash harness. I built all my harnesses from scratch including the connectors. I soldered directly onto the terminals and then conformal coated all the pins. Not the easiest thing to do.

Your panels look great. As far as I know only three have done the firebird panels, and then PBJ did the firebird dash and Roy did the firebird dash and custom firebird inspired panels, so that's 5 that I know of. Others said they were working on it, but I have yet to see any other pictures.

More pics, we love pics!!

Malakyt (malakyt@cox.net) MSG #501, 04-05-2004 08:55 PM
      ::gets up with a 10 and 7mm wrench::
Gonna go take out my dash... more pics soon.


Fiero~Spataro (alexspataro@rogers.com) MSG #502, 04-05-2004 08:58 PM
      hey Malakyt why dont u start up ur own build up thread? im sure everyone would enjoy following ur progress! cant get enough of the T/A dash swap



Skratch (mskrastins@mac.com) MSG #503, 04-11-2004 06:27 PM
      Dang, I just picked up my Fiero for a nice DD, and now I'm sticking a new motor in it and thinking of spending my money on it rather than my beastly Suburban!

It ain't good to have two different automotive hobbies going at the same time, not sure I can affor all this, but now I'm gonna go looking for a Firebird interior too.

jscott1 MSG #504, 04-20-2004 12:35 AM
      I had the interior together for the first time since the Red River Ruckus Redux...so as not to start another thread here are some highlights of the NEW for 2004 Interior:

New Mr Mikes, New Carpet, All new trim pieces in white this time, and more steady progress on the door panels and dash filler panel. Not completed as hoped but getting there. With any luck they will be subtantially complete by Wheatstock:




Now all I have to do is get it running right



Fiero~Spataro (alexspataro@rogers.com) MSG #505, 04-20-2004 12:46 AM
      WOW! jscott that looks insane!!! i love the choice of colors and those rims are pimpin it! makes the car look more agressive! i noticed that u made a sub enclosure with the oem middle console, fiero5 did that for jordans car too, and im planning to do that next. what kinda sub did u use? and how easy was it, what steps did u take? thanks bro
*one of my top 5 favs



jscott1 MSG #506, 04-20-2004 01:28 AM
      My center console is a cut down version of the stock one. About the best you can do in the stock is an 8" and that's what I have for mine. However, my console is actually mounted about 3 inches higher than stock and it has a custom bottom end to transition into the firebird console. The speaker is not actually installed in this shot but you get an idea what it will look like.



jscott1 MSG #507, 08-10-2004 09:43 PM
      Okay my center console sub is installed. To keep my thread alive and out of the archive here is an update:


[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 08-10-2004).]

boristheblade MSG #508, 08-10-2004 10:52 PM
      Red, white, black, grey.
Someone needs to make up their mind


jscott1 MSG #509, 08-10-2004 11:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by boristheblade:

Red, white, black, grey.

I wasn't sure about all those colors either but Alex's piranha was my inspiration:



Dowdian MSG #510, 08-11-2004 10:51 AM
      I read this entire thread for the first time today, and all I can say is that I'm in awe. jscott and mrfixit, you have done some excellent, groundbreaking work on your cars. Thank you for pushing the envelope!



achawkins (achawkins@charter.net) MSG #511, 08-11-2004 11:36 AM
      Please, tell me about your center console sub. Other that a custom plexi speaker mount, what else did you do to it? Did you move the ECM and hollow it out or what?



kypkanon (brent@clay.actual-america.com) MSG #512, 09-02-2004 08:37 AM
      I just read all of this thread yesterday, the work you guys have done is fantastic. I'm getting a complete interior package today out of a 95 Firebird to put in an 88 GT. I'm getting the door panels, dash, speedo cluster, plus the wiring harness to use the connectors. I'm not able to get the center console right now, but everything else is free as long as I pull it myself, which just proves friends in the right places can be a huge help. Is there anything else in specific I should try and get out of the car? Did anyone ever get a complete build instruction on a web page somewhere? It would be great to have printout I could have handy to reference back to while doing the conversion this fall.

jscott1 MSG #513, 09-02-2004 01:12 PM
      Welcome to the madness!!

The one thing I found hard to get was the cable that connects the Enviromental controls to the airbox, and all the connectors for the gauges and switches. I had to make all those by hand because I didn't have them.

I have a webpage that hits everthing at a high level, (see sig) but if you have any specific questions feel free to PM me or post here, I'll be glad to help.

- Jonathan

jscott1 MSG #514, 09-02-2004 01:15 PM
      Forgot to add sig

And to achawkins, my center console is hollowed out to an extent, but the ECM is still there. Note however that my console is about 3 inches higher than stock and it has a custom bottom on it, so your results might vary for mounting an 8" sub in the stock console.



kypkanon (brent@clay.actual-america.com) MSG #515, 09-02-2004 03:06 PM
      Thanks, I checked out your website. I got the HVAC controls out of the car, though I'll probably mount the Fiero controls at first. The speedo I got is a V8 car, but I think I can calibrate the tach. Do you have any pictures or drawings of the mounts you used? I've got the car apart right now to put in a tranny. But its a long weekend coming up and the trans shouldn't take me that long. Maybe I'll set the dash in just to see how it looks. hmmmm

jscott1 MSG #516, 09-02-2004 04:46 PM
      I have tons of pictures of my mounts but I wouldn't recommend my mounting system to anyone. I have the model T of firebird dashes. That is, it was the first one to be mounted in a running vehicle, (MrFixit58 had one mounted up in his test mule first) and at the time I didn't know if it would work so I mounted it in such a way that I didn't need to modify the steering column. I have since modified the column, but I didn't change the way the dash was mounted.

Everyone since has mounted the dash with the upper portion flush with the bottom edge of the windshield. With mine there is a 2 to 3 inch gap. I would suggest starting there and then make bracket where they seem to be needed to hold it in there nice and tight.

Archer78 (carcher7878@aol.com) MSG #517, 10-31-2004 03:21 PM
      I dont mean to bring something old back up to the top, but with the hard work and tons of kudas there was to give. I just wanted to ask if there was ever a parts list to make. I was looking at that pir. dash and it looks like it was coppied from the firebirds original dash setup. So instead of spending the thousands of $$$ I have decided to TACKLE this job once I find a Fiero lol.

Have ya'll ever thought about making the E-Brake work with the set up? or was there a problem in that?

But a good parts list of whats needed, basic tools needed, and maybe a How-to write up would be great, Or maybe a good person to let me swap emails back and forth for any questions I may have would work fine too..

Thanks
Archer
Future Fiero Owner/ Customizer



mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #518, 10-31-2004 04:54 PM
      Thanks for the kind words. There are now several of us who have completed the conversion. If you have questions, feel free to ask. I'm sure one or more of will help.

Good luck,



jscott1 MSG #519, 10-31-2004 07:57 PM
      Thanks for the bump. I consider this thread the official build up thread for my car.

As I have yet to declare my interior officially complete I am more than willing to share what I know about installing these dashes. Keep checking back here for updates on my T-top.

Also I am about to start on my second one on my Chop top

Keep an eye on this thread for updates on that install.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/044137-8.html

If you have any questions just pm me and I will try to answer them. Good luck.


Here is a parts list that I worked up earlier. In just the two years since I did this the Firebird dashes have become more plentiful in the yards. You can get a complete dash with everything for a lot less than what I paid originally. But here are the parts. You can omit a few things like the radio, A/C controls and steering wheel if you don't want the complete firebird look and feel.

Main part of the dash itself

gauge cluster

Gage and radio Surround

lower panel (the piece below the steering column)

console

door handles

door panels

Window/lock swithes

environmental conrol panel

headlight switch

fiberglass, fiber reinforced Bondo, and plastic Bondo

misc stuff like paint and junk plus wire/solder and stuff

Other crap I've bought:

Steering Wheel

Cassette Radio

Airbags



NotAFieroAnyLonger (stelebla@aol.com) MSG #520, 12-21-2004 04:19 AM
      I am not sure if I ever told you both what a GREAT job you both did and pulled it off through email... Thats AMAZING!!
I just wanted to give this the old
B
U
M
P

T
O

K
E
E
P

I
T

O
U
T

O
F

T
H
E

A
R
C
H
I
V
E
S



htexans1 (bd5av8r@yahoo.com) MSG #521, 01-01-2005 12:38 PM
      Hi
Welcome to 2005! I too, have been watching this dash drama, and have been doing research of my own in regard to the "dilemma" of the center brake handle. I found for those who want to use a similar console to the Firebird, but without the center brake handle holes, look to Chevrolet. Over in the Monte carlo section of the junkyard, find ANY 2000 and newer Monte Carlo and there it is, a center "FIrebird" style console, without the brake handle! It seems to me that this console will give a finished look without the brake handle hole that remains in teh console from the Firebird. Just my .02
S.Williams
I'd post a pic, but PIP is having issues.



1986GTV8 MSG #522, 01-05-2005 01:57 PM
      New year, free bump.

John

Max The Chainsaw MSG #523, 01-20-2005 04:22 AM
      bump it up.....

jscott1 MSG #524, 01-20-2005 09:03 AM
      Thanks for the 2005 bump...there should be new developments soon on the Firebird Dash as the plug and play harness is nearly ready.


The Prototype harness has just completed bench testing, (actually kitchen table testing)



Everything checks out okay... I'm using vehicle side harnesses to check out the Fiero-Fierbird PNP Harness



This harness is the complete harness to convert a 93 to 96 firebird to work in an 87 to 88 Fiero. I haven't checked other years so results may vary. For those that have never taken the Fiero dash apart there are three connectors, (called C1, C2, and C3). Those three connectors normally plug into the Fiero Cluster, as you are sitting in the driver's seat C1 is by you left knee, C2 is above that and C3 is on the right. In this harness, all three plug into the box, and the 34 pin connector plugs into the firebird cluster.






The headlight switch is also incorporated in the harness. The headlight switch is integrated into the dash harness for the reason that the Fiero cluster does not have any pins hot at all times and the Fiero headlight switch does not have illumination. The firebird requires both so I have addressed the missing function in this harness.

Also the firebird headlight switch has to be modified in two ways, first the dimmer requires that the circuit board for the Fiero be swapped onto the Firebird dimmer. Second the Firebird connector requires the addition of the "B" pin in order to operate the Fiero headlights. Thanks to PBJ for that tip. The defroster and trunk popper will be incorporated as well for a 100% plug and play installation.

Also this harness requires that an entire set of Fiero gauges be cannibalized to provide the connectors and more importantly the speedometer circuit board that has the divide by two circuit on it. I am also using an 88 speedometer board that has the buffered 4000 pulse per mile square wave. I haven't done it any other way, and I have heard of problems if you attempt to drive the Firebird speedometer directly from the VSS 4000 ppm sine wave.

Pricing and availability....

I can build the harness any way you want. An easy way to think of it though is that $500 is my price that includes everything you need. This price includes the harness, all the connectors, a Firebird Gauge Cluster, and a Firebird Headlight switch with a modified Firebird Dimmer switch, and Trunk popper switch, all tested and guaranteed to work. HVAC is not included yet as I'm still working on some ideas. For now you can use the Fiero controls with a modified bezel.

I have decided not to charge core charges (The harness is $500 everything included) but if you already have any of the Firebird parts you can get a credit or sell your Fiero parts back to me, as you won't need them after the swap. (Prices subject to change):


Firebird Gauges (93-96) subtract $25
Firebird 34 pin connector (93-98) - I will buy for $15
Firebird Headlight switch (93-2002) - subtract $10
Firebird Trunk popper (93-2002) - You get a credit or I will buy for $5 each

Firebird Dimmer switch (82-92) I will buy for $5 each
Firebird Headlight switch (82-92) - I will buy for $5 each

Fiero Gauges (84-88) I will buy for $15 each
Fiero Headlight switch (84-88) - I will buy for $5 each
Fiero Dimmer Switch (84-88) I will buy for $5 each
Fiero Trunk popper (84-88) - I will buy for $5 each
Fiero Defogger switch (84-88) - I will buy for $5 each

Let me know of any interest????

- Jonathan



MetroMatt (matthew.ryan.hanson@gmail.com) MSG #525, 01-20-2005 11:04 AM
      Well.. I started reading this thread at 9:15, and I just finished and I am astounded.

I'd pay either of you to come up here and do this to my Fiero when I get it, this is an amazing job. I'm sad that I'm too lazy and not nearly skilled enough to do this to my own fiero, but if it were done, I'd be the envy of the entire northeastern coast of Fiero owners...

Jonathon, how much would you charge to get a whole setup, doors, everything made like exact replica of yours, and ship it to me? I'd imaigne thats easy enough to just unplug everything in my Fiero, and then swap it over to put the stuff I got shipped to me in there right?

Sigh, there is no easy alternative

1986GTV8 MSG #526, 01-20-2005 01:43 PM
      Glad to see that this is still alive & not archived.

Thanks.

jscott1 MSG #527, 01-20-2005 01:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by MetroMatt:

I'd pay either of you to come up here and do this to my Fiero when I get it...

Jonathon, how much would you charge to get a whole setup, doors, everything made like exact replica of yours, and ship it to me?

Thanks for the compliment! I really appreciate it. Roy (MrFixit58) and I pioneered this swap two years ago and back then we expected that it would become as popular as the Grand Am brakes or the 3800SC swap. The only thing holding a lot of people back is the complexity of the electrical and making everything fit.

I am working on the harness as the first step to enable people to do the electrical work themselves, unfortunately there is no bolt-on solution for the whole interior...yet. My car is a one-off with everything custom fitted, if I unhooked it and shipped it to you it wouldn't just plug in.

After the harness I'm working on a solution for the HVAC to make that easier to integrate and then next is the door panels and console. I wish I had a partner that was good with Firberglass because that's what's needed to make the door panels correct, (Roy?). It mignt be a while before I can get to that point. But for now I can help you hook up the gauges.

- Jonathan

MetroMatt (matthew.ryan.hanson@gmail.com) MSG #528, 01-20-2005 02:28 PM
      See I've never applied myself in mechanics or anything of the sort, it'd take me forever to get it right, and I'd most likely quit long before I finished, my best bet would be to find a bolt-on solution, I love this look though, I think if I do decide I want to get a different car, I might just ship this off to you with the parts inside it and let you do the work!

Iunno, in all seriousness I love the look you've put tgoether, and I'd like to keep my fiero for a good long while, and keep it until its antique years.... We'll see what happens

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #529, 01-20-2005 04:58 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


Thanks for the compliment! I really appreciate it. Roy (MrFixit58) and I pioneered this swap two years ago and back then we expected that it would become as popular as the Grand Am brakes or the 3800SC swap. The only thing holding a lot of people back is the complexity of the electrical and making everything fit.

I am working on the harness as the first step to enable people to do the electrical work themselves, unfortunately there is no bolt-on solution for the whole interior...yet. My car is a one-off with everything custom fitted, if I unhooked it and shipped it to you it wouldn't just plug in.

After the harness I'm working on a solution for the HVAC to make that easier to integrate and then next is the door panels and console. I wish I had a partner that was good with Firberglass because that's what's needed to make the door panels correct, (Roy?). It mignt be a while before I can get to that point. But for now I can help you hook up the gauges.

- Jonathan


Jonathan,

You flatter me. My fiberglass work is acceptible... to me. I don't know that it would meet other's expectations. It would be interesting to see that, if my custom fiberglass parts were splashed, would they fit as well in other conversions. The dash filler would probably be the only piece that others could use. The armrest covers we developed for my custom Firebird-like door panels and the waterfall/computer cover is custom fit to my re-heated and reformed Firebird console. It was pretty easy to heat and reshape the Firebird console them make the fiberglass fit the console. I'm not too sure it'd work the other way around.

The work you're doing to make the cluster plug-n-play is amazing. That's a LOT of work for only $250. I think that the A/C control would be just as much work if not more. But, where there's a will there's a way .

Keep up the GREAT work,



jscott1 MSG #530, 01-20-2005 05:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Jonathan,...

The work you're doing to make the cluster plug-n-play is amazing. That's a LOT of work for only $250. I think that the A/C control would be just as much work if not more. But, where there's a will there's a way .

Keep up the GREAT work,

Thanks for the compliment.

I don't expect to get rich making these harnesses, it's just my way of giving back to the Fiero community on something that I know how to do. I priced it based on how much I would be willing to pay, if I factor in my labor I think I might have to fine myself for working below minimum wage.



MDFierolvr (sabre628@aol.com) MSG #531, 01-20-2005 06:06 PM
      Ohh man, I sat down thinking that I wasnt going to read the entire post and look where I am at now, fourteen pages and 2 hours later I am sooooooo sad that I don't have the knowledge or tools to make a swap like that. Is there a kit coming?...hopefully there is because I would definately be your first costomer, I think though that if i were to do this the fiberglass comp. cover would be a must, that is beautiful. I give you both a huge two thumbs up.... here's your bump.



htexans1 (bd5av8r@yahoo.com) MSG #532, 01-20-2005 11:10 PM
      JScott1:
Add me to the list of interested persons for the harness. I plan to do the dash, console and door panels in the formula but the electrics are holding me back. Let me know.
S.Williams
Too bad im on Active Duty, being from Houston and all, I should be local to ya (Missouri City) But im stuck in KS.... (GRIN)



PaulJK MSG #533, 01-21-2005 12:36 AM
      Amazing work Jon. Your price is a terrific bargain too, considering what aftermarket guages cost ..... bump for you .....

PaulJK MSG #534, 01-22-2005 12:05 AM
      Jon, 2 more things:

Which wire coming off the fiero speedo buffer card to you use to feed into the new speedo ?

Instead of the stock firebird HVAC controls, can you modify one that has climate control (select the temp. and the system maintains it) ?

Another bump for you ....

jscott1 MSG #535, 01-22-2005 12:38 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by PaulJK:

Which wire coming off the fiero speedo buffer card to you use to feed into the new speedo ?

I use the "M" pin from the speedo buffer card. Notice that only the 88 speedometer buffer card has the "M" pin which is the 4000 pulse per mile output to the electrohydrraulic power steering. The other solution would be to use a DRAC from another car that has the 4000 ppm output but I haven't pulled one from the bone yard to try that yet.

 
quote

Instead of the stock firebird HVAC controls, can you modify one that has climate control (select the temp. and the system maintains it) ?
....


Anything's possible... BubbajoeXXX talked about swapping in a totally electric HVAC system from a early 90s olds or buick. I haven't investigated which models might be easiest to use as a donor. It sounds like I have to make a couple of more trips to the pick-a-part and do some more research. I would prefer an all electric HVAC solution to the cable because all the firebird dashes I have seen have the temperature control cable cut.


PaulJK MSG #536, 01-22-2005 10:09 PM
      A digital climate control with the temp LED would look amazing .......

Nebiros88 MSG #537, 01-23-2005 03:48 AM
      Jon, you have a PM

jscott1 MSG #538, 02-07-2005 12:30 AM
      The prototype has been completed and is ready for test in the car. The second prototype and first production harnesses are under contruction.

I am beginning to build a mailing list of all who express interest... but I will post here too so that everyone is informed of the progress.

I'm not ready to take any orders yet, but I am accepting "pre-orders" all you need is to send me a PM or email ( j_scott_1@yahoo.com ) telling me that you are interested. There is no comittment. Thanks.

- Jonathan



Sharkman MSG #539, 02-08-2005 04:19 PM
      I want one. You got my PM.
One question: I have a 86 GT with 3.4 camaro -95 engine and I know that you wrote that you only tested on 87-88. What will be the difference or do you think it will work and you just dont have it tested?



Fie Ro (roderick.baas@tros.nl) MSG #540, 02-08-2005 07:07 PM
      I have a dash project going on, for ideas see the link in my sign....



Skratch (mskrastins@mac.com) MSG #541, 02-08-2005 07:35 PM
      Once I source my dash, console and door panels I'll be hitting you up for this harness!
I have the skills (just barely) to do this, just not the patience to do all this detailed wiring.
So glad to see you giving back to the rest of us!
Thanks man.

Once I get mine in and working/looking good, I'll be up to helping anyone else out in the Columbus area when they want to do it too!

[This message has been edited by Skratch (edited 02-08-2005).]

jscott1 MSG #542, 02-08-2005 10:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:

I want one. You got my PM.
One question: I have a 86 GT with 3.4 camaro -95 engine and I know that you wrote that you only tested on 87-88. What will be the difference or do you think it will work and you just dont have it tested?


Since I am an engineer by trade we have an expression that "one test is worth a 1000 opinions" so I would prefer to test my harness on all models, but I don't happen to have a Fiero of every year at my disposal. However having said that I do have access to the drawings and information and I have every reason to believe it will work on an 86.

The engine is of consequence only to the tach and that won't be an issue at all for you since these clusters came out of Firebirds with 3.4L engine. The differences between different years Fieros are mostly trivial in nature. I believe I know off all of them so I don't expect any surprises. My harness is guaranteed to work, which means if it doesn't you can return it for a complete refund, (less shipping).

I am good with wiring but my fiberglass skill leave a lot to be desired so I'm giving back the best way I can. If you guys end up with the Fiero X dash or the Firebird it doesn't matter, my harness can get the Firebird cluster working for you. Good luck

- Jonathan



1986GTV8 MSG #543, 02-09-2005 11:55 PM
      Outstanding....

Will need one soon for my 86.

With a 98 dash.

John




newfierokid (jmccain2669@yahoo.com) MSG #544, 02-10-2005 02:20 PM
      i love this thread i just bought a center console from a 94 fire bird and got the doors also not bad for 100 bucks plus he threw in a new sunroof for my car cause mine leakes cause of faulty tabs well im just doing the center and doors for now gonna make a custom dash to go with it using all fiero dash parts (make it easy) was just wondering if anyone has the measure ment for shaving the fire bird doors down to fit and if the inner door rods will work if not modified for locks and door opener let me know plz



jscott1 MSG #545, 02-10-2005 02:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by newfierokid:

was just wondering if anyone has the measure ment for shaving the fire bird doors down to fit and if the inner door rods will work if not modified for locks and door opener let me know plz


If you look on page 2 I have the measurement for where the door openers need to be and the modifications to the door rods. You can also see how the door panels are cut. I don't have measurements, the trick is to push the door panel as far forwars as it will go and keep cutting on the back until the door closes.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #546, 02-10-2005 04:45 PM
     

Jon,
How are you connecting wires to the flexible circuit for your Fiero connector interconnects? Are you just cutting the circuit to size for your connectors, stripping the plastic off the copper and soldering to it? I'm asking because I need to do the same thing for my Grand Am cluster and I'd like to get your experience before I chop mine up.

TIA
Bob


soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #547, 02-10-2005 04:51 PM
      I am in the same boat, I need to do this as well.

jscott1 MSG #548, 02-10-2005 08:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

Are you just cutting the circuit to size for your connectors, stripping the plastic off the copper and soldering to it? Bob


In a word...yes. Anyone who has ever worked with these flexible circuit boards knows they are a pain in the you know what. One of the reasons I wanted to build a couple of prototypes is to perfect my constructions techniques. This first one is kind of crude in terms of the cutting.

What I did to give it some stiffness is to drill small holes through the plastic back of the speedometer as well as the circuit board. Then I stripped off the plastic and soldered the wires onto the copper pads. I then used quick setting epoxy to mechanically hold the wires in place. Then I seal the whole thing with "goop". Then I cut out a rectangular section of the back of the speedometer and bolt that into the box. That way there is no stress whatsoever on the wires. So far the protype has held up very well.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-13-2005).]

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #549, 02-11-2005 12:28 PM
      Thanx Jon, that's what I needed to know. More plusses for you (If I could )

Malakyt (malakyt@cox.net) MSG #550, 02-12-2005 11:25 PM
      Hey jscott...
can i get one of those connectors ASAP. i have my 86 that i could test it on... ready to go. Just LMK please. Thank you.

one more thing... also... do you an extra guage cluster?? thank you



jscott1 MSG #551, 02-13-2005 12:52 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Malakyt:

Hey jscott...
can i get one of those connectors ASAP.


Daniel, I would be happy to add you to my mailing list. My goal, as stated earlier, is to take all the guess work out of the installation of Firebird gauges so I include a set of guages with the harness.

There are at least 5 different versions of the Firebird gauge that I am aware of, three of which work perfect with the Fiero, one sort of, and one not at all. To take out the guess work I will deliver gauges guaranteed to work with the Fiero. Do I have extra gauges?

I'm building up inventory to be able to meet demand once the harness start shipping. My kitchen is starting to resemble Archie's workshop

I have every reason to believe the 86 will be okay although I don't have a way to test. Thanks to Roy, (MrFixit58) and Scott (Scott-Wa) for wiring diagrams for all years Fieros and Firebirds 93 to 98. I can do a cross check on the drawings at least to make sure everything is okay.

- Jonathan

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-13-2005).]

Malakyt (malakyt@cox.net) MSG #552, 02-13-2005 01:10 AM
      Sounds good... just let me know when they are avail and how much you want. thnx. And also... two more questions... how did you mount your dash? and 2) do you know where to get the plugs for the door switches? (wiring and the connector?)

jscott1 MSG #553, 02-13-2005 01:51 AM
      My dash is mounted using mounts to the upper lip under the windshield and underneath. Because I mounted my dash differently than most, the exact shape of those brackets are not going to be useful to you.

There are 3 places I have found to get F-body parts. 1) ebay , 2) Junkyard 3) People parting out firebirds. For stuff like connectors I have had the most luck with #3. I will send them an email and tell them what I need.

soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #554, 02-13-2005 01:06 PM
      Hey Jscott, I dont know if you remember me, but I was talking to you a while back about hooking up these gauges that I had got cheap on ebay. You had siad that you would send me the schematics when I found out what year it is. I am not sure how to figure out what year the gauges are out of, and they guy i bought them off wasnt sure either. I just got them in the mail, guess the guy took so long beacuse he wasnt happy that I got them so cheap.. gotta love no reserve bidding

SO here is a pic of the connector on the back if that helps any.



jscott1 MSG #555, 02-13-2005 01:46 PM
      Hey Soup, I can tell that the gauge above is not 93 to 96, so at best you will not be able to use them without some difficulty.

From my experience the analog (93-96) boards were blue. The 97 and up digital boards are green. That means it won't be plug and play. If it's a 97 or 98 everything should work except the fuel gauge. The 99 and up are all digital and in my opinion are not worth messing with.

I can't quite see in the picture but look on the bottom row of pins on the connector. Count over from the left and if only the first 5 and the last 6 pins are used then you are in luck it's probably a 97 or 98. If you see pins 5 to 11 used then it's probably a 99 and up. From what I can see looks like you might have a 97 or 98. If you replace the fuel gauge with an analog one it can be used.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-13-2005).]

newfierokid (jmccain2669@yahoo.com) MSG #556, 02-15-2005 12:28 PM
      ok still working on mine got a new drimmel cause my drill just wasnt powerful enough to use a cutting wheel duh but i forgot a extension cord just tryed my hand at fiber glass also now i see why they say where gloves i dont think i did bad for my first time sorry no pics dont feel like being made fun of by the morons on here i need to put a few more coats on then i will have my new ecm cover whoopy when all is done i put some pics up mine not as nice as the others on here so not gonna try to compete one last thing how thick should i make the cover as in how many FG layers



jscott1 MSG #557, 02-15-2005 12:51 PM
      The fiberglass has been my biggest challenge. I'm about to start my 3rd attempt on my door panels and dash filler panel. I may have to give up and let a professional finish it.

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #558, 02-15-2005 01:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by newfierokid:

ok still working on mine ... one last thing how thick should i make the cover as in how many FG layers

I think I did 2-3 layers. It doesn't have to be too thick because it doesn't support any weight. The thickness is used more for smoothing than anything. You want it thick enough so when you sand it, you're not sanding holes in it.




mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #559, 02-15-2005 01:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

The fiberglass has been my biggest challenge. I'm about to start my 3rd attempt on my door panels and dash filler panel. I may have to give up and let a professional finish it.


Don't quit now. Practice makes perfect.

Roy


soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #560, 02-15-2005 02:43 PM
      Does anyone have the schematics so that I can wire up my gauges?

I was thinkin about the gas gauge, and if I cant connect it, I might just fill it in, and have another gauge, make a pod on my a pillar. I am not too worried about it...

I was fooliing around with teh gauges last night, had the multimeter out, and a 12v source. I found most of the lights, but I have no idea how the gauges work.



jscott1 MSG #561, 02-15-2005 03:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by soup:

Does anyone have the schematics so that I can wire up my gauges?

Back on page 9, but here it is again. EDIT POW! I own page 15

If you look at the back of the Firebird gauge there are two rows of pins the row on the top is "A". The row on the bottom is "B". They are numbered from left to right. The corresponding fiero pins are on the chart.

Fiero Connector C1 is the 18 pin connector to the speedometer board.
Fiero Connector C2 is the 12 pin connector that is horozontal on the back of the Fiero speedometer.
Fiero Connector C3 is the 18 pin connector that is vertical on the back of the Fiero Speedometer.

I hope that helps.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-15-2005).]

soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #562, 02-16-2005 12:18 AM
      Awesome! Thank you Jscott!

Now I just need to go to the local electronics shop and see if I can find some sort of connector to attach to the back of the firebird gauges... I dont reallyw ant to solder a wire to each pin...

Malakyt (malakyt@cox.net) MSG #563, 02-16-2005 12:59 AM
      funny you should say that. I just went and got a connector at a local yard today. took me a day and a half to solder all the wires to the back without grounding the connections. good luck.



jscott1 MSG #564, 02-16-2005 08:31 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by soup:

Awesome! Thank you Jscott!

Now I just need to go to the local electronics shop and see if I can find some sort of connector to attach to the back of the firebird gauges... I dont reallyw ant to solder a wire to each pin...


Good luck finding that connector at an electronics shop. If you find one buy about a hundred for me I've found them very hard to find. There are not many 4th gen F bodies in the yards, (my recent trip turned up none) so they are hard to come by.

I have soldered to each pin. Tedious, but it can be done reliably.


Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #565, 02-16-2005 10:47 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Good luck finding that connector at an electronics shop. If you find one buy about a hundred for me I've found them very hard to find. There are not many 4th gen F bodies in the yards, (my recent trip turned up none) so they are hard to come by.

I have soldered to each pin. Tedious, but it can be done reliably.


Jonathan - you can buy the connector straight from GM, part number 12065803 - www.gmpartsdirect.com list them at $2.02 each

Now, if only I could find the Firebird connectors for the drivers windows/lock/mirror switches for a reasonable price

Tim

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 02-16-2005).]

jscott1 MSG #566, 02-16-2005 11:04 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

Jonathan - you can buy the connector straight from GM, part number 12065803 -

Tim

Tim, You are my new best friend!!! That will save me hours or scrounging through bone yards and such.

If you know of any other connector part numbers that are in GM Parts Direct's catalog I would appreciate it. I guess I need to break down and get a Firebird parts catalog. I just ordered a bunch, not quite a hundred but enough that I won't need to order any more for a while, (the $10 handling fee is a bear if you are only ordering one).

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-16-2005).]

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #567, 02-16-2005 11:40 AM
      power window connector >> 12101915 - AC Delco number PT187
power mirror connector >> 12085536 - AC Delco number PT144
power door lock connector >> 12101862 - AC Delco number PT254
light switch connector >> 12125632 - AC Delco number PT544

...but these puppies are expensive...

Edited to added the AC Delco part numbers...if there are others, let me know, and I will look them up.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 02-16-2005).]

jscott1 MSG #568, 02-16-2005 12:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

Now, if only I could find the Firebird connectors for the drivers windows/lock/mirror switches for a reasonable price

Tim

Thanks for the part numbers on these but at this price I think I will pass. It's only a few pins I'll solder directly before I pay $20 a connector


soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #569, 02-16-2005 12:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

Jonathan - you can buy the connector straight from GM, part number 12065803 - www.gmpartsdirect.com list them at $2.02 each

Now, if only I could find the Firebird connectors for the drivers windows/lock/mirror switches for a reasonable price

Tim

Wow, you RULE!
I just paid 4 dollars with shipping here in Canada. Should have my connector in a few days.
Saves doing a custom one... I started to solder allready, but I dont like the idea of not having it removeable

Time to remove teh solder.

Malakyt (malakyt@cox.net) MSG #570, 02-16-2005 04:35 PM
      Hey jscott1,
can you ask that guy if he has the connector to the headlight switch? i need on badly and GM charges 141.59 my price (i get a discount). LMK otherwise i am gonna go back to the yard and see if it is still there.
Thank you

:edit: do you have a diagram for how you wired the lights?

-Malakyt

[This message has been edited by Malakyt (edited 02-16-2005).]

jscott1 MSG #571, 02-16-2005 08:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Malakyt:

Hey jscott1,
can you ask that guy if he has the connector to the headlight switch?

You note is a little confusing...what is the difference between the AC Delco PT544 connector and the one you are looking for? GM Parts Direct only wants $14 for that one. Where are you getting the $141.59 price? That is insane, you can get a whole dash harness for that.

Here is my headlight wiring...since the time that I did my car PBJ informed me that the "B" pin can replace the relay and connect direclty to the White wire on the Fiero "F". The "B" pin does not normally have a wire going to it on the Firebird connector, you have to add one. Prior to that I used a relay.

I have updated this table to reflect the relay-less connection that I am now using.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-16-2005).]

jscott1 MSG #572, 02-16-2005 08:59 PM
      While I'm at it I'll post my other drawings as well. They have been posted before, but let's get it all in one thread...

If you want you r accessories to still have power after the car shuts off, and turn off when you open your door. This is useful for when you have a DVD player. It doesn't have to "reboot" if the car shuts off unexpectedly, (like you stall it on launch)

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-16-2005).]

newfierokid (jmccain2669@yahoo.com) MSG #573, 02-17-2005 06:56 AM
      ok maybe i missed it so im gonna ask how did u mount the door panels to the fiero

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #574, 02-17-2005 08:32 AM
      Jonathan,

Once I moved the window switches to the doors, the hardest part for me was making the right side window work with two switches instead of just one. With your help, I was finally able to make it work. Did you post that diagram, yet?

Roy

jscott1 MSG #575, 02-17-2005 10:02 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:
Did you post that diagram, yet?

Roy

I'm keeping that one secret Just kidding. If you notice the dates on the drawings above, I have made them gradually over time. The window drawing is one I haven't done yet.

Newfierokid - my door panels are held in place by a combination of the dew wipe strip at the top, clips on the back and screws. You have to custom engineer all of it...one of the reasons MrFixit58 decided to build up the Fiero door panel to look like a Firebird panel instead.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-17-2005).]

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #576, 02-17-2005 10:51 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


I'm keeping that one secret Just kidding. If you notice the dates on the drawings above, I have made them gradually over time. The window drawing is one I haven't done yet.

Yea. I seem to remember a scan of a pencil shetch. No points for style but max points for function .

 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
Newfierokid - my door panels are held in place by a combination of the dew wipe strip at the top, clips on the back and screws. You have to custom engineer all of it...one of the reasons MrFixit58 decided to build up the Fiero door panel to look like a Firebird panel instead.

Jonathan is correct. I had a set of door panels and tried my best to devise a way to trim and install them. In the end, It was going to be just as much fabrication work as just redesigning the factory Fiero door panels so, that's the direction I took.


Malakyt (malakyt@cox.net) MSG #577, 02-18-2005 01:26 AM
      Hate to ask again jscott... but do you happen to know where i can find a wiring diagram for the trunk switch... i fried a wire about a year ago off the 4 wires coming off the switch. currently i have left a yellow, orange and grey... the other one is burnt color i just need to know where the wires go so i can re wire it. thank you.

-Malakyt

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #578, 02-18-2005 07:55 AM
      Hey guys, we use Power& Signal for our Delphi connector needs here at work: http://www.powerandsignal.com/netstore/start
Just type in the part number to get specs and such. I'm pretty sure you can buy direct, too.

Bob

newfierokid (jmccain2669@yahoo.com) MSG #579, 02-18-2005 08:32 AM
      thanks jscott thats how i mounted mine 2 cool dew wipes hold it in place nice now for cosmetic any suggestions on how to pretty up the part that was chopped on the back side i want to close it off so it looks stock and dont want the foam showing

Malakyt (malakyt@cox.net) MSG #580, 02-18-2005 12:57 PM
      well mrfixit58... in one of my old threads i posted this and i thought it might be usefull to you guys...

pretty much the top two pegs on the drivers side are negative and positive. then wire the polar wires acordingly to the switches (ie the 2 drivers side wires go under the drivers side switch. if you press the switch and the window goes up when you press down reverse the wires)


jscott1 MSG #581, 02-18-2005 04:37 PM
      Malakyt - as for the trunk switch, from memory I can tell you that if you are holding the switch vertical then the two wires at opposite ends are for the light. The two that are next to each other are the switch. It doesn't really matter which way the two pairs are connected.

RCR - You are my newest best friend. That is an awesome site. Armed with the GM part numbers I can finally get connectors are decent prices!

Newfierokid - I am using fiberglass and bondo to finish off the ends. That is why it's taking me forever, because I'm not very good at it. If I ever finish maybe I can get a mold to make it easier to make copies.

newfierokid (jmccain2669@yahoo.com) MSG #582, 02-18-2005 04:58 PM
      cool ty jscott

Malakyt (malakyt@cox.net) MSG #583, 02-18-2005 05:45 PM
      Thanx jscott... i think when i had that little mishap with the wire i fried the relay. is that even possible. when i touch the wires together i hear the relay click... but the trunk wont open... HELP... gotta get the trunk to pop so i can stop using the "trunk key" (aka screwdriver) lol. thanks for the info. i would give you another + but i cant

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #584, 02-22-2005 12:43 PM
     
 
quote
RCR - You are my newest best friend. That is an awesome site. Armed with the GM part numbers I can finally get connectors are decent prices!

Thanx Jon...anything to help out.

^^^ btw

Bob



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #585, 02-23-2005 05:23 PM
      Bump for a friend



RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #586, 02-23-2005 08:05 PM
     
 
quote
i think when i had that little mishap with the wire i fried the relay. is that even possible. when i touch the wires together i hear the relay click... but the trunk wont open... HELP...

Pretty tough to fry a relay, unless it's not rated for the voltage or current load. Which I doubt on an automotive relay. Are you sure the solenoid for the lock is functioning? More likely that that is toast, or you burned the wire somewhere else.

good luck...

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #587, 02-23-2005 08:14 PM
      Saw some solenoids for sale in the Mall, if you need one: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/024931.html

Bob (Jon's new best friend and proud of it )

soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #588, 02-24-2005 12:29 PM
      Hey, I just got my connector from GM... problem though.. I thought it would actually have terminals in it, so that I could just solder wires on, and then connect to the pins.... nope... it is just a plastic plug.. thats it...

So I was talking to the 90 year old guy at the counter, and according to him, I can't get any wiring, or terminals... he said there is no part number for the terminals or anything...

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #589, 02-24-2005 12:36 PM
      Soup... Check out the Power&Signal link above. Type in your part number and the specs will come up for that connector. It will also show all the terminal options available. I'm pretty sure the terminals will be available in one form or another. If you order some, make sure you get bulk, otherwise you'll end up paying for several thousand on a reel.

Bob

jscott1 MSG #590, 02-24-2005 01:48 PM
      I figured for $2 the connectors couldn't have terminals in them. But thanks to my new best friend Bob I'm going to order a bunch.

Edit - I just ordered some terminals from Power and Signal. The only problem is that they have several sizes for different cable ranges. Maybe it doesn't make a difference. At 0.03 a piece I ordered a couple of difference sizes just in case.

12089660 Terminal Female Micro-Pack 100 Tin Plated Terminal, Cable Range 0.50 - 0.35 mm2
15317755 Terminal Female Micro-Pack 100 Tin Plated Terminal, Cable Range 0.50 - 0.35 mm2
12146447 Terminal Female Micro-Pack 100 Tin Plated Terminal, Cable Range 0.60 - 0.35 mm2
12146448 Terminal Female Micro-Pack 100 Tin Plated Terminal, Cable Range 1.00 - 0.75 mm2
12089649 Terminal Female Micro-Pack 100 Tin Plated Terminal, Cable Range 1.00 - 0.80 mm2

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-26-2005).]

soup (jamie@kembel.ca) MSG #591, 02-26-2005 12:32 AM
      Jscott, if you can, can you let me know which ones are the right ones...

being in canada, it is too much of a pain to just keep ordering till i get the right ones...

Thanks!

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #592, 02-26-2005 10:54 AM
      It doesn't make too much of a difference. They are sized for different gauge wires, for different crimping machines. Since you'll probably be hand crimping with pliers and soldering, no big deal.

Bob

Max The Chainsaw MSG #593, 03-18-2005 01:40 PM
      Hey guys, I've run into a snag here on the 94 Camaro dash swap. My cluster has a 32 pin connection instead of a 34 pin. Does anyone know the part number for this connector?

How about a pinout for the 94 Connector on a Camaro? (The Camaro evidently didn't use the same connector as a Firebird until 97.)

Any help here would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks a million!

Max


jscott1 MSG #594, 03-18-2005 04:34 PM
      You are right, Camaro was not the same as firebird until 97. I might have the information you need; but I'll be in Daytona until next week,

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #595, 03-18-2005 04:58 PM
      Might have to do some reading, but here's the link to the Delphi catalog. You're looking for the 32-pin micro-pack. http://www.powerandsignal.com/IDC/Products/MicroPack.aspx

Jefrysuko MSG #596, 03-19-2005 11:56 AM
      Guys,

My interest in the firebird interior has been growing the past couple of years, enough to get me started looking for parts to buy. This of course leads me to a couple questions.

First of all the interior color which I like the most is Black (Ebony). I would like to attempt to attempt a completely black interior swap with only a few departures like the headliner and maybe some of the fiberglass filler panels. In order to accomplish this I am looking for a black dash, console, door panels etc from either a Firebird or Camaro. My main question is which years was the black interior available in both the Firebird and Camaro. So far it looks like 2000-2003 but I can't find anything definite yet.

In doing this swap I will also want to keep the Pontiac red backlighting in all of the gauges, switches Etc. I was wondering if someone could help me figure out what all I would have to swap out with firebird components in order to get the red backlighting. I already know that I will most likely not be able to use a 2000-2003 instrument cluster so I am basically just trying to figure out what else will need to be changed and if there will be any problems in doing so.

Thank you in advanced.

Edit = Type first, think second!



jscott1 MSG #597, 03-19-2005 05:42 PM
      Look for the 2000 to 2002 Ebony interior. You will need cluster from an earlier year, but all the firebird clusters already light up in Red there is nothing to change.

Jefrysuko MSG #598, 03-19-2005 07:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Look for the 2000 to 2002 Ebony interior. You will need cluster from an earlier year, but all the firebird clusters already light up in Red there is nothing to change.

Yep, I am prepared to find the earlier Firebird cluster but what about the climate control, light switch, window switches Etc. Wouldn't all of those light up red also? I would like to make sure if I buy a Camaro dash that either I can change the color of the lights or change the switches themselves easiely. I can't imagine why any of that wouldn't be able to be changed just looking for someone with experience or insight into the subject.

It would also like to make sure that I know what all of the light up components are such that I can account for them as an additional cost if purchasing Camaro vs. Firebird parts. Unless of course someone can tell me that the color of the lights can be changed extreamly easy.

Thanks for the information of the years for some reason I have seen the Ebony listed as 00-02 some places and 00-03 others. Then of course there are always those that list their dark grey interiors as black not knowing any better.

Max The Chainsaw MSG #599, 03-19-2005 08:46 PM
      Well, I think I've found the right connector: GM # 12045575. GM Partsdirect cost $1.47.

Now to wait for the order to come in so I can see if it fits.

Well, I'm off to see if I can find the pinout diagrams for this connector.

Have fun.

Max


Fierokid87 (scotts_fiero@juno.com) MSG #600, 03-19-2005 09:07 PM
      what is the cost of the gauges and the wiring harness?



jscott1 MSG #601, 03-19-2005 10:28 PM
      When I offer the harness for sale the price will be $500. Pricing and availability subject to change....

I can build the harness any way you want. An easy way to think of it though is that $500 is my price that includes everything you need. This price includes the harness, all the connectors, a Firebird Gauge Cluster, and a Firebird Headlight switch with a modified Firebird Dimmer switch, and Trunk popper switch, all tested and guaranteed to work. HVAC is not included yet as I'm still working on some ideas. For now you can use the Fiero controls with a modified bezel.

I have decided not to charge core charges (The harness is $500 everything included) but if you already have any of the Firebird parts you can get a credit or sell your Fiero parts back to me, as you won't need them after the swap. (Prices subject to change):
Let me know of any interest????

- Jonathan

2002 was the last year for the Camaro and Firebird so there is no 2003.

Window switches don't light up, everything else on the F-body lights up red. I don't know about Camaro except the gauges are white. I'm not sure how to make it red since the bulbs are white on the Firebird and it lights up red.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-23-2013).]

Max The Chainsaw MSG #602, 03-20-2005 07:02 PM
      Hey Jscott, would you sell some connector pins to fit the dash plug? I found the right plug for a 94 Camaro, and the numbers from Power and Signal for the pins are the same, but I only need enough to do the one plug.

Let me know if you would.

Thanks,
Max


jscott1 MSG #603, 03-21-2005 03:25 PM
      Hi Max,

I'm still waiting for my shipment of connector terminals to arrive. But if I have any extras I'd be glad to sell them. I don't remember off the top of my head how many I ordered. I just need enough to populate all the connectors I bought. Don't need all 34 pins, probably 24 at the absolute most.

- Jonathan

Max The Chainsaw MSG #604, 03-21-2005 06:56 PM
      Sounds great. Let me know, I only have 1 connector to populate.

Max


Modat5 MSG #605, 04-11-2005 11:33 PM
      Jscott,

How are the adaptor harnesses coming?

Thanks,

Matt



Max The Chainsaw MSG #606, 04-29-2005 09:13 PM
      Hey Jonathan, Do you have a schematic of how you did the HVAC controls with one switch and relays. My 6 gang rotary switch won't fit in the hole (Too deep) and I was thinking maybe I could adapt your relay schematic to work with the factory vacuum selector and 6 vacuum operated switches.

What do you think?

Max


dobey MSG #607, 04-30-2005 12:43 AM
      So should I post updates in this thread, or should I stick to my own thread? I hope to be able to add to the information.

jscott1 MSG #608, 04-30-2005 02:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Max The Chainsaw:

Hey Jonathan, Do you have a schematic of how you did the HVAC controls with one switch and relays. My 6 gang rotary switch won't fit in the hole (Too deep) and I was thinking maybe I could adapt your relay schematic to work with the factory vacuum selector and 6 vacuum operated switches.

What do you think?

Max

For those that have been patiently waiting....

No real updates on the firebird PNP harness. I was heavy into development and then got sidetracked by actually working on my cars. That's one reason I didn't want to accept any orders until I was ready to start production.

In the mean time there has been some developments in the area of a totally electric HVAC system... In the future I may incorporate that into the package for a totally integrated system.

Here are the schematics I used for my HVAC controls. The 5 layer switch might be easier to hook up but I couldn't find any for a reasonable price.


[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-30-2005).]

cheetah MSG #609, 05-10-2005 12:45 PM
      Hello.

I am doing the swap (on pause for a week while I finish the suspension overhaul).

2000 Camaro SS dash with a Firebird steering column (complete column swap).

Anyway, after reading this topic, I am still unsure as to how to make the speedometer work. I have the digital odometer on the gauges btw.

Also, do you have a p/n on the firebird gas gauge?

I have everything working electronically except the gas gauge and speedo. I used the previous diagram provided (thanks!) and the wheel readio controls are easy. I have the wiring harness from the donor Camaro, so that has made it a lot easier.

Thanks in advance.


jscott1 MSG #610, 05-10-2005 12:49 PM
      I have a 2000 gauge and as far as I know the speedometer is digital and will not work with the Fiero. The gas gauge will not work either but you can replace that. I don't know about replacing just the speedometer. I wouldn't even try. I would suggest going to an F-body board and trading it for an analog one. The 97 and 98 are the only digital odometer speedometers that I have been able to get to work with the Fiero. Sorry.

Good luck on your swap and keep us up to date on your progress.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 05-10-2005).]

cheetah MSG #611, 05-10-2005 02:42 PM
      I have one like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7972591782&category=33678

if I swapped it for one like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7972592406&category=33678

it would work? If so, I will just buy the second one.

Thanks.

jscott1 MSG #612, 05-10-2005 02:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cheetah:
if I swapped it for one like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7972592406&cate gory=33678

it would work? If so, I will just buy the second one.

Thanks.

What engine will you have in the car? That auction is for a V8 gauge. Unless you have a V8 in your car the tach will not read properly. If you have a V6 then look for a gauge for a 3.4L or 3800 V6.

You have to be careful with the Firebird clusters because I finally broke down and bought the Firebird parts CD for all years and I found there are about 30 different part numbers for the cluster. I haven't finished cross referencing all the ones that work and won't work, but when I do I will post that information here.



cheetah MSG #613, 05-10-2005 02:57 PM
      I used the firebird gauge cluster and wheel because I wanted red lights and the airbag to say "PONTIAC", but I liked the lines of the camaro dash more.

I currently have the 2.8L, but will be doing an LS1 swap sometime within the next year.

I wanted to have the tach in the meantime with my V6 if possible, but if this cluster will work with the LS1 later, I could get by without a speedo for awhile (can estimate speed by the tach).

But I can't live without the gas gauge. Can I order the 80 FB one from GM still? Do you know the p/n?

http://www.cheetahonline.com/camarodash.html

I will update this page in the next few days.
Thanks.


jscott1 MSG #614, 05-10-2005 04:51 PM
      The gas gauge that I used was from a 2nd gen firebird. Just about any GM car from 1964 on I think used the 90 ohm gas gauge. It is not a drop in replacement, I had to do some cutting to get it to fit.

I never thought to try an replace the gas gauge with one from an earlier 4th gen. I don't know if that would work or not. I might give it a shot one day. But I don't think you will find a GM part number for just the gas gauge, since it's integral to the cluster. You would have to find the supplier to the cluster manufacturer.

cheetah MSG #615, 05-15-2005 06:56 PM
      I have a spare gauge cluster like this one laying around:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=46100&item=7974434601&rd=1

do you think that gas gauge from that will work?

I have soooo many projects going on right now it is crazy! Glad this isn't my daily driver.

jscott1 MSG #616, 05-15-2005 07:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cheetah:

do you think that gas gauge from that will work?

That appears to be the 93 to 96 Camaro gauge. I've never messed with one, but if it's anything like the 93 to 96 Firebird cluster then the gas gauge should work.


cheetah MSG #617, 05-15-2005 08:07 PM
      Thanks, I'll give it a try.

I am happy, I also have a kit coming that will allow me to auto up and down both windows. I am trying to do all electical while the interior is out. I moved the battery up front, and am doing the + and - wiring the RIGHT way. The headlights/motors will have their own wiring straight from the battery, etc.

Thanks to everyone for their help with diagrams and such.

This swap is not too bad, just a little time consuming. But well worth it in my opinion.

El Guapo (fearcity2772@aol.com) MSG #618, 05-15-2005 08:40 PM
      Move the stereo location up so the shifter doesn't get in the way. Take the standard GT style guages and move them vertical to the left of the higher stereo. A rounded "brow" over the speedo and other guage areas would be useful to cut down on glare and provide a better overall look without looking to futuristic on an '80's car.

F-I-E-R-O (andrew-rogers@stny.rr.com) MSG #619, 05-15-2005 10:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by El Guapo:

Move the stereo location up so the shifter doesn't get in the way. Take the standard GT style guages and move them vertical to the left of the higher stereo. A rounded "brow" over the speedo and other guage areas would be useful to cut down on glare and provide a better overall look without looking to futuristic on an '80's car.

Sounds good to me.

jscott1 MSG #620, 05-17-2005 01:27 AM
      ATTENTION

Now that I have your attention, I am pleased to announce that the Firebird plug and play harness is nearing completion. I was distracted for a while working on other projects but I am turning my attention back to the harness.

I've got a couple of pre-orders saved here on my computer but my mailing list seemes to be missing...so I need everyone who is interested in being added to my mailing list to please PM me with an email address. Thanks.

- Jonathan



dobey MSG #621, 06-01-2005 03:56 PM
      Any idea what to use to create molds for some of the larger things that might need to get made out of fiberglass? The computer cover, or door panels for example? Just a really large block of styrofoam? I'm thinking that rather than completely using the f-body interior, I might mold up a dash that bolts right in, so I don't have to cut anything, and I can make it look better without having the odd cuts by the a-pillars to cover up, and the bit between the dash and the windshield. Though, I'd still use some stuff from the f-body, such as the gauges, and probably the HVAC controls. I'll probably start with the door panels though, as they are the easiest to deal with. I was just wondering if anyone had suggestions of what to use to build the molds with. Thanks.

-- dobey


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #622, 06-02-2005 07:39 AM
      I'm going to use a combination of the stock Firebird door panel components with urethane foam and polyester spandex to create my door panels. I just finished "smoothing out" the stock door panel last night and will be starting the layup after my headliner is done. Although, I will not be creating molds. These will be one-off pieces. A good site to check out is: http://www.glassmanscustomforum.com/

Bob

jscott1 MSG #623, 06-02-2005 09:46 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

I'm going to use a combination of the stock Firebird door panel components with urethane foam and polyester spandex to create my door panels. [/URL]

Bob

This is what Roy, (MrFixit58) did. I'm not that good with upholstery so even after smoothing and creating the panel I'm stuck. Unfortunately, I'm not that good with fiberglass either so even the smoothing part is difficult for me.

Talk to Norm of Norm's fiberglass. He is a master of the craft and might have some suggestions for you. If I had more time I would partner up with someone who is good with fiberglass and upholstery, and I could do the electrical and mechanical work.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #624, 06-02-2005 12:59 PM
      I've talked to Roy (via email) and he's given me a few good ideas on what to do. Hopefully I can pull this off....

dobey MSG #625, 06-02-2005 05:02 PM
      Sounds great. I suppose I should find a couple of extra stock door panels to use. I'm fine with doing one-offs as well. If I can do it once, I can do it again, if I decide that I want to make molds. Would be nice to get my car done first though.

Good luck with the fabbing.

-- dobey

 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

I'm going to use a combination of the stock Firebird door panel components with urethane foam and polyester spandex to create my door panels. I just finished "smoothing out" the stock door panel last night and will be starting the layup after my headliner is done. Although, I will not be creating molds. These will be one-off pieces. A good site to check out is: http://www.glassmanscustomforum.com/

Bob



jscott1 MSG #626, 08-16-2005 11:13 PM
      Install A Firebird Dash In 30 Minutes!

Houston - Well for all of you that have patiently waited for the plug and play harness I have good news. The prototype has tested out positive and I will be finishing up the second unit, with some improvements over the first. The third unit will be for sale.

I installed, (electrically) a firebird dash in my chop t-top in less than 30 minutes. The car started, all the gauges work, including the headlight and dimmer switch. First thing I noticed is that since all Fieros have the trunk popper switch, (88s at least) that the interface to it will be included with all harnesses.


Stay tuned for updates. I will be contacting those that placed pre-orders first. Anyone else interrested email me at j_scott_1@yahoo.com Price is still $450 everything included, (except the dash). See earlier in the thread for details.







pacethis (meeksj@charter.net) MSG #627, 08-17-2005 12:05 AM
      I have a new dash coming out, and I'm sure 90% of you will love it as it's gorgeous. It's smooth and rounded. . .but you're just going to have to wait a month for the details

The problem is, most people are not realistic when it comes to budgeting for a dash change. Sure, if you want to put 50-100 hours into it and design your own, you can do it for a few hundred dollars. But if you seriously want to put in a dash that's been designed and won't take this kind of time, expect to honestly spend a minimum of $1000+++. The good ones are in the $3k range right now, finished.



MilleniumFiero MSG #628, 08-17-2005 07:41 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Install A Firebird Dash In 30 Minutes!

...plug and play harness..

a firebird dash kit?!?!? How did I miss this!?! Is this for true??? A firebird dash kit for dumbies?!



jscott1 MSG #629, 08-17-2005 09:00 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by MilleniumFiero:


a firebird dash kit?!?!? How did I miss this!?! Is this for true???

I don't have the mechanical hookups as part of a kit, (yet), but electrically I have everything you need to make the gauges, and headlight switch work. You are also going to have to relocate your dash speakers. You can use your own HVAC and radio and you are golden.

MilleniumFiero MSG #630, 08-17-2005 09:17 AM
      from what I've read electronics seem like the hard part! When I get home to Hawaii and finally get back to my Fiero's I might start looking at junk yards! I better start reading up any good dash swap thread you can point me to?

hmm might be a shame to tear up such a nice dash tho....



jscott1 MSG #631, 08-17-2005 09:48 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by MilleniumFiero:

better start reading up any good dash swap thread you can point me to?

That is a nice dash...you can sell that to offset the cost.

Everything you need to know about the firebird dash swap is in the thread you are reading. This is page 16 of the continuing saga.

1986GTV8 MSG #632, 08-31-2005 04:42 PM
      BUMP...

Need to keep this on top.

You've got mail.



pavo_roddy MSG #633, 08-31-2005 06:13 PM
      Hi all,

What ever happened to the guy who was designing a "new" dash?? You know the original reason for this thread.......lol.......

dobey MSG #634, 09-27-2005 09:33 PM
      Your month's up. Details and pics!

 
quote
Originally posted by pacethis:

I have a new dash coming out, and I'm sure 90% of you will love it as it's gorgeous. It's smooth and rounded. . .but you're just going to have to wait a month for the details

The problem is, most people are not realistic when it comes to budgeting for a dash change. Sure, if you want to put 50-100 hours into it and design your own, you can do it for a few hundred dollars. But if you seriously want to put in a dash that's been designed and won't take this kind of time, expect to honestly spend a minimum of $1000+++. The good ones are in the $3k range right now, finished.



pcwentworth (pwentwor@columbus.rr.com) MSG #635, 09-27-2005 11:14 PM
      I would love that idea. Now for U or someone to have a kit that lets us drop the dash in and not only plug and play harness but a way to fix in those spots that don't look right by the pillers.
anyone?


jscott1 MSG #636, 09-27-2005 11:23 PM
      The economics of dash swaps make it difficult to market a drop in kit at a price that most Fiero enthusiasts would pay.

A professional lke Archie or Norm could build such a kit but they would spend hundreds of hours developing it and since time is money to a professional they would have to recoup that money in the cost of the kit.

An amature like me could develop such a kit but I don't have hundreds of hours to devote to such an endeavour. Maybe if I ever finish my own car I can splash a copy of the pieces that make it look right and the idea of a kit can progress a little further. Until then you will have to devote the time to it yourself.

ToddCaster (toddcaster1977@hotmail.com) MSG #637, 09-30-2005 11:38 PM
      I hope you get this project out there for the Fiero Pubic, I have been also looking at trying to do the Trans Am door pannels. I am glad to see that you have done some of it with results. I must reread all of your posts when my head is not hurting :O)

Take care Todd

ToddCaster (toddcaster1977@hotmail.com) MSG #638, 09-30-2005 11:39 PM
      Oh by the way I would be very intrastead in the dash and door pannels all ready done to be installed

Let me knwo
Toddcaster1977@hotmail.com


Bubba G 1987 FieroGT (bubbag@windstream.net) MSG #639, 10-02-2005 11:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by the need for speed:

the 300zx dash!!!!!!!!! A couple of people I thought were trying the z dash, but i think they made the instrument pod pretty damb ugle..screw those russians copy the piranha but then add a digital clock or something that would make it different.I dont know how patents work,or even if they have one or care since they dont want to make there dash!

Werd! .... I love the piranha interior ... but would like to use the 91 Caddy Seville instrument pannel (digital speedo and the other digital information screen below the radio)......

jscott1 MSG #640, 10-02-2005 11:36 PM
      Just so you know there is no copyright on the Pyranha...it was basically the work of one man, Alex Koulygine. He was working to market it as a kit

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/041016.html

but sadly his life was cut short by a motorcycle accident.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/047971.html

The fate of his car is uncertain. His familiy is reportedly interested in showing the car, but I doubt seriously that a kit will be made from it any time soon.

ToddCaster (toddcaster1977@hotmail.com) MSG #641, 10-05-2005 04:14 PM
      Nice , Bump


CETICARS MSG #642, 10-05-2005 07:11 PM
      I would like to use the a/c controls to update my interior ,do you have a wiring adapter harness an any other ideas ,very nice work

FieroGTguy (fierogtguy@aol.com) MSG #643, 10-05-2005 09:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

The economics of dash swaps make it difficult to market a drop in kit at a price that most Fiero enthusiasts would pay.

A professional lke Archie or Norm could build such a kit but they would spend hundreds of hours developing it and since time is money to a professional they would have to recoup that money in the cost of the kit.

Norm is making molds of my interior to reduce the weight of the original MDF + fiberglass. Since he is doing that favor for me, he is more than welcome to reproduce them for interested parties. The great part about my dash is that you don't have to worry about speaker location. It's a custom design, so you either love/hate the way it looks. But everyone loves the way it sounds.

I used Dakota Digital gauges, but you can use autometer or the style of your choosing.

Might be done in time for X-mas?

Greg



jscott1 MSG #644, 10-05-2005 11:12 PM
      Well If I ever finish mine Norm can shoot a mold of it too.

smoothwhitese (jmccain2669@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #645, 10-12-2005 11:35 PM
      bump for favs

cheetah MSG #646, 10-15-2005 07:36 PM
      I am coming along with my Camaro / Firebird interior. I am putting 98-02 Camaro door panels in, and have wired the window switches into the doors instead of the center console. I have both windows working with my auto up / down box that I bought. Locks were easy.

But I am about to wire the power mirror controls to the switch on the driver door. Both have eight wires, and the four directional wires are the same color, so those are easy. But the other four are different. On the plugs, they are wires as H, G, F, E on both. Do I just match the letters, or is there a different order. I don't want to fry anything since they have constant power to the switch.

jscott1 MSG #647, 10-15-2005 11:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cheetah:

But I am about to wire the power mirror controls to the switch on the driver door. Both have eight wires, and the four directional wires are the same color, so those are easy. But the other four are different. On the plugs, they are wires as H, G, F, E on both. Do I just match the letters, or is there a different order. I don't want to fry anything since they have constant power to the switch.

Whatever you do, don't just match colors or letters. Some match, some don't

Here's what I have for mirrors. Firebird on the left - Fiero on the right

FIREBIRD - FIERO

A BLK - B BLK
B LTBLU - D- LT BLU
C YEL - C-YEL
D WHT - F Wht/BLK
E LT GRN - E LT GRN
F BRN/WHT - G LT GRN/BLK
G RED/WHT -H WHT
H ORN -A ORN

This was for a 98 Firebird and 88 Fiero Yourr results might vary.

cheetah MSG #648, 10-16-2005 10:14 PM
      Unfortunately, as I am learning, the Camaro and Firebird are just different enough to be dangerous.

That doesn't work with my Camaro switch, so do you have the pinout for the Fiero wires? The Haynes doesn't have anything for the mirrors at all.

Thanks.

jscott1 MSG #649, 10-17-2005 12:01 AM
      If you are going to do any wiring you need to invest in a Helms. The Haynes is just a subset of the Helms.

Anyway, here are the pinouts for the 88 Fiero mirrors, (your results might vary)...

A- ORG - Fused battery
B - BLK - Ground
C - YEL - Left and right mirror Up/Down motor
D - Lt BLU - Left and right mirror left/right motor
E - Lt GRN/BLK -Left Mirror Up/down motor
F- WHT/BLK - Left Mirror Left/Right Motor
G - LtGRN - Right Mirror Up/Down Motor
H - WHT - Right Mirror Left/Right motor

EDIT - What year Camaro mirror switch do you have? I probably can't help you but I have the drawings for the later year Camaros (98+)

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 10-17-2005).]

cheetah MSG #650, 10-17-2005 08:43 AM
      It is for a 98-02 Camaro, so those would be a great help. I am looking for a better book as we speak, this Haynes is useless.

Thanks again.



smoothwhitese (jmccain2669@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #651, 10-17-2005 10:17 AM
      i have 93 firebird door panels and im loking to put the switches on the door also do the colors match up there at least if not anyone have the right wires combo i have to splice

jscott1 MSG #652, 10-17-2005 12:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by smoothwhitese:

do the colors match up there at least if not anyone have the right wires combo i have to splice

If you look up about 4 posts I have the pin to pin matchup for Firebird switch to Fiero mirrors.

theratdude64 (theratdude64@gmail.com) MSG #653, 10-18-2005 04:24 PM
      Holy Crap, I've read this thread before but never noticed theres actually a plug and play setup for it. Now I really wanna do this lol.

Is there any way to get a digital odometer to work? And reset it to show the actual vehicle miles? I'm betting not without the V8 and everything so you gotta use the Bird ECM. hrm



jscott1 MSG #654, 10-18-2005 06:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by theratdude64:

Is there any way to get a digital odometer to work? And reset it to show the actual vehicle miles? I'm betting not without the V8 and everything so you gotta use the Bird ECM. hrm

I have digital odometer and it works just fine. Resetting it to show actual vehicle mileage, well that's not so simple. It has nothing to do with a V8 or the ECM, the information is stored in the cluster. I don't have a clue how to reset it, and for obvious reasons there is no obvious way to do it. I've just gotten used to the fact that my cluster is showing 23,000 miles less than actual.



theratdude64 (theratdude64@gmail.com) MSG #655, 10-18-2005 06:30 PM
      oh that IS in a fiero... I found that pic a while ago and saved it cause im interested in HUD. Any more info on that? Does that guy still make em?

I wonder if you could take it to a dealership and see if they can reset it. I am probally getting a dealership job soon so I'll ask em sometime lol

:edit: Sorry, I honestly dont mean to hyjack lol. PM response or something lol


cheetah MSG #656, 10-18-2005 06:38 PM
      jscott1,

any luck in finding the camaro pinouts for the mirrors?

thanks

jscott1 MSG #657, 10-18-2005 07:36 PM
      Yeah a few days ago when I posted that picture of my HUD I called it a Bonneville HUD; which is what kind of car it came out of. It might not have been obvious to the casual reader that it is installed in my Fiero.

As for the Camaro Mirror switch this is what I have for the 98+:

A - ORN - power
B - YEL - Left mirror up/down motor
C - LT BLU - Left Mirror Right/Left and Up/Down motor common
D - WHT - Left Mirror Right/Left Motor
E - RED/WHT - Right mirror Right/Left Motor
F - GRY - Right mirror Right/Left and Up/Down motor common
G - BRN/WHT - Right mirror up/down motor
H - BLK - Ground

I hope that helps...

- Jonathan

cheetah MSG #658, 10-24-2005 11:48 AM
      I re-read this entire topic, and noticed that my dash (camaro) seems to be closer to the windshield than most. Also, mine is not tilted at all, but mounted straight up and down. But all the different ways look good, I just wanted as much room as possible. I cut the back of the dash and the Fiero itself. I also have a Firebird steering column on custom brackets, so the wheel fits in the hole in the dash well. I like my new placement much better.

I have to the door planels, and am trying to figure out how to mount them to the doors. I want to hide all of the screws. Not going to be easy.

Anyway, here are pictures of my 98-02 Camaro interior swap:

http://www.cheetahonline.com/camarodash.html

madcurl (madcurl@fiero-performance.com) MSG #659, 10-24-2005 11:59 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroGTguy:

I used Dakota Digital gauges, but you can use autometer or the style of your choosing.

Greg

Nice dash and a Great choice for gauges. I use the same brand.

jscott1 MSG #660, 10-24-2005 12:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cheetah:

and noticed that my dash (camaro) seems to be closer to the windshield than most...

Actually all but mine sit close to the windshield. Mine is the only one that doesn't because I was the first person in this thread to install a firebird dash in an actual car, (Roy's was installing it in his parts car at the time I was installing it in my actual car) Therefore I wasn't prepared to modify the column until I knew it would work. I later did modify the column but left the dash in it's current position.


cheetah MSG #661, 10-28-2005 12:49 PM
      I am going to do my hvac controls the same way, and I am looking for a replacement electrical switch for the air-position knob. I see that you used a switch, and attached it to the knob (since it was originally vacuum).

Did you find a switch where the switch positions line up with the notches (icons, pictures, whatever)? In other words, does your switch change positions at the stock positions, so that the knob pointer lines up with the icons?

If so, where did you find one? It is (8) notches on 180 degrees span.

Thanks.

 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Here is an update on my progress. Not nearly as visually interesting as Roy's update today, but here is what I have been working on...



cheetah MSG #662, 11-01-2005 10:29 AM
      Aside from the above mentioned hvac, I am also working on the power mirrors and camaro door panels also. I am rebuilding a pw motor also, any place make brushes for these?

BTW, the camaro switch is different than the firebird, and is a PITA!



jscott1 MSG #663, 11-01-2005 02:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cheetah:

Did you find a switch where the switch positions line up with the notches (icons, pictures, whatever)? In other words, does your switch change positions at the stock positions, so that the knob pointer lines up with the icons?

I could not find such a switch. I searched every type of switch catalog I could find and most are either 6 or 12 positions on 270 degrees or something like that. You can get close but no cigar. I rarely move mine off Max AC so I don't worry about it too much.

I've given a little thought to modifying the vacuum switch to be electrical, that way it would line up perfectly. But I have only given minimal thought to that, and haven't come up with anything yet.


JaxDomino MSG #664, 11-02-2005 08:02 AM
      Bump :-)



JaxDomino MSG #665, 11-02-2005 09:41 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by pacethis:

I have a new dash coming out, and I'm sure 90% of you will love it as it's gorgeous. It's smooth and rounded. . .but you're just going to have to wait a month for the details

The problem is, most people are not realistic when it comes to budgeting for a dash change. Sure, if you want to put 50-100 hours into it and design your own, you can do it for a few hundred dollars. But if you seriously want to put in a dash that's been designed and won't take this kind of time, expect to honestly spend a minimum of $1000+++. The good ones are in the $3k range right now, finished.

Pacethis, what happened to your dash?



cheetah MSG #666, 11-02-2005 10:17 AM
      The news about the switch is not was I was hoping to hear.

I may try and fabricate a switch. I really want the controls to look stock.

BTW, I finally did get the power mirrors working. I will be making charts of my wiring for the Camaro parts (among other items), on my website soon.


Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #667, 11-02-2005 11:14 AM
      Re: rotary switches:

I came across this the other day at work, have not checked them out, but they are suppose to have/make all type of rotary switches. www.ggi-international.com

Tim

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 11-02-2005).]

jscott1 MSG #668, 11-02-2005 02:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

Re: rotary switches:

I came across this the other day at work, have not checked them out, ...Tim

Well I went to this site, and they might make rotary switches but couldn't find them. Their specialty is membrane switches.

jscott1 MSG #669, 11-02-2005 02:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cheetah:

I may try and fabricate a switch. I really want the controls to look stock.

This kind of make me chuckle...as in how can a firebird control look stock in a Fiero? I assume you mean look like it came from the factory that way. The switch in my GT line up pretty close. It's not something that is glaringly obvious. I have managed to find a different switch I want to try on my next one. I think it might be an even closer match.



cheetah MSG #670, 11-03-2005 02:17 PM
      We know that these cars are mid 80's vehicles, but many don't. I think the interior and lights are what really dates Fiero's.

I am doing a stock interior, just out of another vehicle. I am not going to have any flashy items or colors in mine, just a stock looking 2000ish interior. But I know what you mean, but I am a stickler for details.

What type of new switch do you have?

cheetah MSG #671, 11-05-2005 12:14 PM
      http://www.cheetahonline.com/mirrorwiring.html

I made a detailed webpage on how to convert the 2000 Camaro Power Mirror Switch into a Fiero with Power Mirrors. A big pain to figure out, but now should be easy for anyone else to follow. This will probably work for other similiar switches (like a Grand Prix).

Enjoy...

cheetah MSG #672, 11-06-2005 01:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


I could not find such a switch. I searched every type of switch catalog I could find and most are either 6 or 12 positions on 270 degrees or something like that. You can get close but no cigar. I rarely move mine off Max AC so I don't worry about it too much.

I've given a little thought to modifying the vacuum switch to be electrical, that way it would line up perfectly. But I have only given minimal thought to that, and haven't come up with anything yet.

Where did you find a 12-position, on 270 degrees? That would work very well.

Send me a link to it, and I will try that out.

Thanks

jscott1 MSG #673, 11-06-2005 02:26 PM
      Well let's see after looking at it more closely,

The Firebird hvac switch has 8 positions on 180 degrees or 7 intervals every 25.7 degrees

The switch I have in my car now has 6 positions on about 160 degrees or 5 intervals every 32 degrees

The new switch I have has 12 positions on 330 degrees or 11 intervals every 30 degrees.

So it's better, but not that much better. To be perfect it would need 16 positions on 360. I haven't seen anything like that.


The Fiero uses 6 positions but elliminated the "vent" because I have a separate switch for the a/c compressor which makes the a/c position the same as vent. The 1 pole 12 position rotary switches are pretty common, here's a couple:

http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/201
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/187

It might be possible to find an 16 position switch but I have a feeling it's not cheap. I'll keep looking.

You could order one from ITT Cannon, but no one uses 25.7 degree indexing, that's the killer. What was GM thinking??

http://www.ittcannon.com/media/pdf/catalogs/Leaf/SW_rotary_rtbv.pdf

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-06-2005).]

SquishyBiscuit MSG #674, 11-08-2005 01:17 AM
      Just wanted to say thanks for the great build thread. It is one of my favorites I have read and is extremely informative. I believe I will conquer this swap once I get my motor swap done. But anyhow I just wanted to let you two know your both are pimp interior gurus!

-Squishy

cheetah MSG #675, 11-14-2005 10:51 PM
      I have a question for anyone:

I have found that the speed sensor has two wires coming from it: a yellow and a light purple with a stripe.

This changes to a yellow and a regular purple with stripe at the plug in front of the computer in the center console.

Now I know that the VSS signal that goes to the speedometer is a single-brown wire.

Where do these two wires join into one? Is one just a positive (+12v), and the other the signal? Or is there some sort of box, etc. that converts the signal before the speedometer? I am basing this on the diagram:

I see Firebird P/N B12 is labeled as a VSS, but I don't see any other VSS signal.


I don't seem to be getting a speedo signal to the gauge, so I am trying to trace down what I assume is a broken wire.

Neither of the two wires are tied to the brown-speedo wire. Should one of them be? If so, I will just run a new wire to avoid taking apart the entire wire loom.

Thanks in advance.

[This message has been edited by cheetah (edited 11-14-2005).]

jscott1 MSG #676, 11-15-2005 01:23 AM
      I think I answered this before...maybe not it's late

But the VSS hi (yel) and VSS low (ppl/wht) are an unbuffered 4000 pulse per mile sine wave signal that go into the Stock Fiero speedometer at C2 S and R respectively. The Fiero speedometer board buffers the signal then it goes through a divide by two circuit and THAT signal is what goes out to the ECM as a 2000 pulse per mile single wire (grn/wht) from pin U. Note that these are the 88 colors, I don't know if it's the same for all years.

Now the firebird gauge expects a buffered 4000 pulse per mile square wave. The way I do it is to retain the Fiero speedometer board and use the buffered 4000 pulse per mile signal. The 88 speedometer outputs this sgnal on pin M, (it was intended to be used by the electro-hydraulic power steering). The 2000 pulse per mile signal still goes to the ECM and is also used by the cruise.

Now member TK in tech has been showing me how to extract the 4000 pulse per mile signal from the earlier boards before it goes into the devide by two circuit, but I haven't demonstrated that ability yet.

If you delete the Fiero speedometer altogether you are probably tapping into the dead wire in the console, and your ECM is also not going to get a signal.

If you are runnng an engine swap and don't need the ECM there is a workardound for the VSS signal. In leiu of the 88 board you can simple hook up the unbuffered 4000 pulse per mile VSS hi to the firebird speedometer and it should work okay. I've never tried it but from what I understand the speedometer might bounce a little at low speeds. If you are running a stock ECM you need the divide by two circuit and have to add that back in somehow.

Did that answer your question?

Solving the riddle of the buffered 4000 ppm is one of the things holding up the PNP box. I want to make sure I have a solution so the user doesn't have to deal with this issue.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-15-2005).]

cheetah MSG #677, 11-18-2005 01:55 PM
      That answers it. I don't remember ever seeing that I needed to keep the stock gauge. I will have to buy one, as I sold my stock.

Gary W (gary.wanamaker2@gmail.com) MSG #678, 11-18-2005 04:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


Solving the riddle of the buffered 4000 ppm is one of the things holding up the PNP box. I want to make sure I have a solution so the user doesn't have to deal with this issue.

I solved this one a long time ago when I did my Grand Am dash. Head to the junkyard and pull the yellow buffer box off of any 4 or 6 cyl. 3rd gen F-body. It's piggy-backed on the ECM under the glovebox. This little box gives 2000 and 4000 ppm buffered output. It's basically just the buffer and divide by two circuitry used on the Fiero's speedo board.

Scroll to the bottom of the link for a pinout:
http://chevythunder.com/fuel%20injection%20elect.%20pg%20B.htm

Hope this helps. BTW, if you get your hands on one of these, as well as a pre-88 speedo, you can see where the 4000 ppm buffered signal can be pulled off of the Fiero board. If mine wasn't buried in the dash I would tell you which pin it was. There was a land for it on my 86 board, but there was no wire in the connector.


Edit:
As far as the rotary switch, here's what I did - I found an open-frame switch on a plastic substrate. The contacts were all held in with miniature rivets. I removed the detent spring, so the vacuum switch in the panel would provide the detents. I then marked any of the contacts that lined up with the detent positions, and removed the rest by drilling out the rivets. A couple of the contacts were moved slightly to line up with the detent positions by heating them with a soldering iron and then rotating them slightly in the (melted) substrate. I had to make 3 layers to capture all of the necessary positions, but it works great.

[This message has been edited by Gary W (edited 11-18-2005).]

jscott1 MSG #679, 11-18-2005 06:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Gary W:


I solved this one a long time ago when I did my Grand Am dash....
As far as the rotary switch, here's what I did -...

This is some great stuff you have here. Do you have a build up thread for your GA Dash? I'm not an electrical person, per se, so I'm amazed at the stuff you guys have figured out.

I wouldn't know how to spot the buffered 4000 ppm from a hole in the wall. But I would prefer to use the pre-88 boards, (versus the 3rd gen device) since I have a box full of the old Fiero speedometers. I haven't had time to find that pin through. The way TK described it didn't match up to anything I was looking at. Something you said just clicked... if I compare the 88 and the pre-88 and trace back that extra pin I should see where to tap in on the pre-88 boards? I just recall that the two boards didn't look that much alike, but I'll give it a try.

And the open frame switch mod is brilliant. I suppose I would have come up with that eventually, but I'm having trouble finding open frame switches. I can do all the switching I need with one layer and a logic circuit and relays. The relays are kind of primitive, but remember, I'm not a sparky, so I tend to want to do things mechanically. But I've given up on finding a switch with the proper indexing, I guess I have to make one as you did by redrilling the holes. Brilliant!!

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-18-2005).]

Gary W (gary.wanamaker2@gmail.com) MSG #680, 11-18-2005 09:33 PM
      OK, I dug out my old box of junk from the conversion.

Here is a picture of an '86 speedo board:

The 4th pin down from the top is 4000 ppm buffered. There should be no wire in the Fiero harness going to this pin.

Here is my rotary switch setup:

You can see how I staggered the contacts so they line up at each detent.

Here is an unmolested switch frame for comparison:

And the complete HVAC, using part of the old board to make it PnP:

I forgot that I was able to do it with a 2-layer switch. I retained the electrical contacts in the GA vacuum knob to turn on the compressor on the AC and Defrost positions. The fan switch was a straight plug-in to the Fiero harness, and the mixing door is still actuated by a cable with this control - I just had to splice the cables together on the heater box.

[This message has been edited by Gary W (edited 11-18-2005).]

jscott1 MSG #681, 11-18-2005 11:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Gary W:
Here is my rotary switch setup:



This is beautiful work. I have my new winter project. I want to replace the cable with a motor and make the whole thing electrical. I seem to have trouble finding that cable. It's probably available new, but the part number is not in my Firebird book.

Gary W (gary.wanamaker2@gmail.com) MSG #682, 11-18-2005 11:33 PM
      I still have that unmolested switch frame in the picture. If you want to fool around with it, PM me your address and it's yours.



cheetah MSG #683, 11-21-2005 10:20 AM
      So if I want to just use a Fiero Speedo, can it be from a 4 cylinder? Or does it have to be the 120mph one?



jscott1 MSG #684, 11-22-2005 01:38 AM
      Yes, you can use the 4 cylinder speedometer. The VSS doesn't know or care how many cylinders you have, all the speedomter boards are the same in this respect. You can use any speedometer to get the divide by two circuit.

cheetah MSG #685, 12-13-2005 08:28 PM
      OK, so which two leads go to the two wires from the VSS (my original plug is gone).

Thanks,


 
quote
Originally posted by Gary W:

OK, I dug out my old box of junk from the conversion.

Here is a picture of an '86 speedo board:

The 4th pin down from the top is 4000 ppm buffered. There should be no wire in the Fiero harness going to this pin.



cheetah MSG #686, 12-14-2005 10:12 AM
      I also need the wiring schematic for the heater / ac controls. If anyone has them, I couldn't find it in the archives.

Thanks

jscott1 MSG #687, 12-14-2005 12:50 PM
      This is Roy's drawing for how he did the multiple layer switch:

Then this is how I did it with the single layer switch:


I think the single layer is the way to go, expecially if you want the detents to be in the correct position. It would be a nightmare to try and modify multiple layers the way shown earlier.




cheetah MSG #688, 12-14-2005 06:22 PM
      I am doing it the relay way, but a little different. So what exactly does each stock wire for the unit power.

Also, Do you have the speedo info I posted a few posts up? I am just a liitle confused since the display has more than six positions.

Thanks,



jscott1 MSG #689, 12-14-2005 08:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cheetah:

I am doing it the relay way, but a little different. So what exactly does each stock wire for the unit power.

Also, Do you have the speedo info I posted a few posts up? I am just a liitle confused since the display has more than six positions.

Thanks,

If I understand your question, the Fiero stock HVAC uses 7 positions, (including off). I used a 6 position switch only because that's what I was able to find. I just left the "VENT" out of the equation.

The 7 relays represent the 7 things that need to be powered, (It's kind of coincidental that they are both 7.) Depending on the way it's wired, (and using the doides it's one way) each position on my 6 way switch determines which of the relays are energized. The table shows you my logic for how I wired it up. The number of positions showing on the firebird HVAC does not matter since the switch moves independent of that.

As for your speedometer question, Gary says that the 4th pin down has the VSS signal on it. I haven't tried that yet, but according to him that's all there is to it.



cheetah MSG #690, 12-14-2005 09:12 PM
      I guess I just need a pinout of the wires themselves. I am using a potentionometer instead of a rotary switch. I am mounting it into the stock switch, so I keep my exact factory look (with proper notching movement). The potentionometer will give a different voltage at each position, and with a memory chip, each voltage will activate different wires; which will power the relays. I will be able to have all stock positions do something, so I need the exact pinout of the wires themselves.

On the speedo, I am not using the factory plug, so I don't know where to solder the vss sensor wires to. The 4th one down is the output wire. I need to know where the two input wires go.

Thanks.,



jscott1 MSG #691, 12-15-2005 12:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cheetah:

I guess I just need a pinout of the wires themselves.

Well that's a clever wayto do it with a potentiometer and a voltage comparitor.

If you are working with the raw wires, then look at the drawing that I have A/C controls connector, (labeled A thru N).

What you are looking for is scattered all over the drawing but here is is neatly

A - Black -Ground
B - not used
C - not used
D - Tan - Mode door defrost open
E - Gray - recirc door open
F- Purple - mode door partially open (bi-level)
G - not used
H - not used
I - not used
J - Light Blue - Mode door outlet open defrost closed (normal)
K - not used
L - Yellow- recir door closed
M - Red - Mode door outlet open
N - Brown - power

As for the speedometer board (84 non cruise, 85-88):

A - not used
B - not used

C - not used
D - not used
E - not used
F - not used

G - not used
H - not used
J - not used

K - not used
L - not used
M - 4000 pulse per mile buffered VSS (88 only)

N - 4000 pulse per mile buffered VSS (86-87) ?? per Gary W
P - black/white - ground
R - puple/white - from the VSS (low)
S - Yellow - from the VSS (high)

T - yellow/black - Ignition power to cluster
U - Dark green/white - 2000 pulse per mile Vehicle speed sensor signal to ECM and Cruise


I hope that helps??

- Jonathan

Haagster MSG #692, 12-22-2005 10:56 PM
      Free bump to the top so I can find it easily as I reinstall my Firebird dash...



RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #693, 12-28-2005 12:13 PM
      I've finally started working on the HVAC controller for my GA swap. I think I have the circuit for the mode selects worked out, using a single layer rotary switch. Some circuitry, no relays. I forgot to bring it to work so I could draw it up today, but I'll get it next week. I also ordered the actuator for the temp door, so that's covered with a single pot. The only kicker has been the blower control. I want all 5 speeds like my HVAC panel. I think I have that solved now, using a trailer brake. It will PWM the motor for various speeds based upon a pot setting, handle the power, and since I wrote the software for the brake, mods will be easy. I'll post more under my seperate thread later.

Bob

jscott1 MSG #694, 12-28-2005 12:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

I've finally started working on the HVAC controller for my GA swap. I think I have the circuit for the mode selects worked out, using a single layer rotary switch. Some circuitry, no relays.

Bob

I'd be interested to see that circuit for the mode control, as well as your method for controlling the temp door. You are using a pot? I was considering using a 12 position rotary switch with preset resistance, but infinite control is cool too. Single layer on the mode door is the way to go especially if you mod it to worth with the preset "clicks" on the firebird HVAC.

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #695, 12-28-2005 02:47 PM
      Jonathon,
I think you were following Riceburner98's thread on a dash swap in which he mentioned the GM actuator. It only needs a pot to set the voltage. He has a more comprehensive thread going in the tech directory at Ari's: http://69.94.88.210/index.php?topic=4103.0 He basically took it over with the HVAC controller he's come up with for the kit car guys. I think my mode select will work. From the info I recieved from Riceburner on the current requirements for the mode selects, a relay seems overkill. The switch should handle the current fine, and I'm adding a few more bits to it to get all the functions I want. I'll post it once I get a "visual" copy.

Bob

jscott1 MSG #696, 12-28-2005 05:05 PM
      That kit Riceburner has is awesome! If only someone had something like that for us firebird guys. I like the fact that it mounts to the cable...that way you could retrofit without pulling the dash. Great stuff

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 12-28-2005).]

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #697, 12-28-2005 05:42 PM
      The beauty of that actuator is that it does not have to use the cable. The way I understand it, it can also be mounted directly on the shaft. I think Don (aka 355Ferrari-I think) is using the cable, but Bob initially had it on the shaft. Since my dash is completely disassembled, this is the way I'd like to go. I'm trying to save as much room as possible for the toys.

Bob

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 12-28-2005).]

Haagster MSG #698, 12-28-2005 06:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
That kit Riceburner has is awesome! If only someone had something like that for us firebird guys. I like the fact that it mounts to the cable...that way you could retrofit without pulling the dash. Great stuff

I would definately buy something like that for my Firebird install if it were available!! I'm still not 100% sure what to do about HVAC - so this would solve that in 1 shot!!



jscott1 MSG #699, 12-28-2005 09:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Haagster:


I would definately buy something like that for my Firebird install if it were available!!

I can't make any promises, but a kit like that could be made for the firebird install pretty easy. Just replace the temp switch with a potentiometer and the vac mode switch with the custom one layer rotary switch, add the appropriate electronics and mount it up. This is on my list of things to do someday.

Haagster MSG #700, 12-29-2005 01:08 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
... This is on my list of things to do someday.

I'm first in line (after you finish your own) for one!!

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #701, 01-02-2006 12:28 PM
      Jonathon:
I've been going over this HVAC stuff repeatedly so I could figure how to do mine. I have the schematic done, I'll have to post it once I get home (can't post the images here at work). Mine seems overly simple, but I did simplify some functions. One question keeps popping up in my head, though: According to Bob (Riceburner98), the select functions only draw about 300mA. Why are a lot of these (including yours) using the relays? Seems like you could save a lot of wiring and space if you diode steer your connections directly from your switch to the Fiero harness. A 1 Amp 1N4002 would be sufficient for the job, and the switch itself would have no problems. Am I missing something here, or did someone miss the trees while looking at the forest....

Bob

EDIT: Add the img:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/116485492.jpg&s=x11

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 01-02-2006).]

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #702, 01-07-2006 06:19 PM
      Here's my rotary switch for the mode select:


It turned out real easy. I think I lucked out. Here's what I did...
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/043545-6.html

Bob

Riceburner98 (riceburner98@gmail.com) MSG #703, 01-07-2006 10:58 PM
      Hey, my bedspread is famous now! LOL The initial prototype I did I just wired a rotary switch to the Fiero wiring, worked OK for me. I think the diodes and relays were used to allow 1 position / output on the switch to control 2 actual outputs.. I think. Also RCR is correct, it is fairly easy to mount that heat door actuator right to the top of the heater box. Just need to file down the little arm to fit inside the motor shaft, then attach the motor to the top of the box. (mounting it to the cable was to make "retrofit" installations easier without removing the dash) Also if anyone wanted to use it, the above mentioned setup for the 355 Kitcar guys will work just fine for the Firebird control, if you add the mentioned potentiometer to the Firebird knob. All it takes is a program change to match the voltages. There's an input for a seperate AC and reCIRC button also. When using the 355 panel, the heater motor needs to be modified to work on 5v (to be compatible with a future automatic climate control upgrade), but connected directly to a potentiometer on the Firebird panel it would work unmodified on 12v. You can get the motor new for ~$40 from GMpartsdirect.com, or from a junkyard for $1-$20. Not sure how much I'd sell just the plug-in "ECM" part of the climate control setup for, I had it all figured out at home on paper somewhere.. But as long as mounting the multi-position switch to the Firebird panel works out OK, then that would seem to be the cheapest / easiest way to go. ----> Just looked at the actual link about the switch from RCR, that's awesome work!! Out of curiosity, how much does the brake controller go for? I never got my PWM circuit working for the fan speed, maybe adding a modified controller to the kit would be an option? I personally don't like relays myself.. (although I just bought 550 of them to build kits! LOL)



RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #704, 01-15-2006 05:02 PM
      I finished up the mode select today. There were a couple small issues with the original circuit I came up with. I needed an extra diode to block feedback current in the re-circ circuit and I found that I can't drive to modes at the same time, thus I no longer have a feet/def function. I'll post a new schematic once I can update it at work.

Bob

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #705, 01-25-2006 03:59 PM
      Did you guys use the Firebird cable for the temp knob on the heater controls???

...the one other question, does one need to use the buffered 4000 ppm signal or can it just be fed straight from the VSS signal (what exactly does the buffering do)?

thanks

jscott1 MSG #706, 01-25-2006 04:17 PM
      Yes, I used the cable from the Firebird, but I'm trying to develop an all-electric alternative similar to what the kit car guys are doing.

You can feed the speedometer directly from the 4000 PPM VSS but as it leaves the VSS it varies in amplitude depending on the speed. Therefore at low speed it's going to be a very low voltage and lead to erratic behavior of the speedometer.

The buffer turns it into a square wave, (digitizes it if you will) so that the pulses are uniform at all speeds. You can use the speedometer board and tap into the signal downstream of the buffer but before the divide by two circuit.

- Jonathan

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #707, 01-26-2006 11:24 AM
      Ok thanks - now to find a cable...

...and, hey if you need someone to test your above 'electric' controls you can put me on the list Although I would need an entire kit as my car is using manual controls (no AC).

Tim

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 01-26-2006).]

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #708, 01-30-2006 02:46 PM
      I just wanted to add some things here that I have ran across (not mentioned before) so others that are looking at this project are aware of as well:

1) 99+ gauges will not work for this swap - well they will partially work, but most of the indicators are controlled by the ECM. Pin outs for the 99+ gauges are also different than what has been posted here. Don’t bother with these ones.

2) Everything works as it should on the clusters that have the analog odometer, those gauges with the digital odometer - the fuel gauge does not work as it is ECM controlled. However, the fuel gauge from the analog cluster will fit the digital cluster (you also have to use the needle that comes with the gauge as the center pin is a different diameter). See the next post for the small mods needed for it to work.

3) The clusters with the digital odometer use LED’s for the warning lights – back lights are still with bulbs.

4) V8 clusters - the tach will not be correct for a V8 car or a V6 car - these clusters are set up for a DIS system. I am currently looking at how to modify them for a correct reading.

5) Fiero defrost vents interfere with the dash. You either need to remove the mounting tabs from the dash in that area, OR notch the defrost duct work. I rather notch the duct work just so there are extra points to hold the dash

6) Firebird heater controls. You will also need the hot/cold select cable from the Firebird so that it will fit the control. I have yet figured out a way to mount it to the Fiero air box. The Fiero has a smaller pin than the Firebird on the door actuator.

7) I have yet to figure out a decent method for using the Firebird heater controls with a car that does not have A/C (manual slider controls vs the push button one). Will most likely have to be converted to an electric system.

8) The dash needs to be notched at the ends to clear some metal pieces in the car – OR – you can trim the metal parts. You only need to do this if you are trying to get the dash as close to the windshield as possible.

9) console needs to be trimmed to fit (as well as the metal areas previously mentioned).


…ok, so far that is all the things that I have come across, I am sure there are more as I get further into in…please feel free to add anything...

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 01-31-2006).]

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #709, 01-31-2006 04:39 PM
      Tach modification:

On the front face of the circuit board you need to locate RA2 and the 2 pins that connect the resistor that sets the tach calibration. The pins are marked in blue in the following picture: (note RA1 is used for calibration of the speedo)


Once you have identified the traces on the backside, you will need to cut one of the traces and install an appropriate size pot for the calibration. You can measure the original resistor and multiply it by 0.75 (if a V6 dash going to a V8) to get the value of the new resistor. I just stuck in a 100k ohm pot with a 47k ohm resistor in series � didn�t have a bigger pot to use. I then just adjusted the pot till the tach read right according to my scanner). I cut the trace marked with the black circle � it was just a soldering pad on the board and in case this did not work to my liking it would have been an easy fix



Fuel gauge in reference to a 98 dash:

On this cluster the fuel gauge is ECM controlled and needed to be replaced. I replaced it with a gauge from a 94 cluster, however some board mods were needed as it was not a direct plug in.

Referring to the picture below:
- remove the 3 jumpers marked with a red line.
- Install the 3 jumpers in the spots indicated by the black lines
- A 24 ohm � watt bias resistor is installed in the spot marked with a blue line

It was nice of who ever designed the 98 cluster to include these traces for the old style fuel gauge.


Hope this helps someone out
Tim

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 05-04-2015).]

jscott1 MSG #710, 01-31-2006 06:00 PM
      Thanks for the awesome and informative post. Some of what you posted was covered in the previous 18 pages but some is new. I already knew the 99+ gauges were not applicable, not even close to the same pinout. I have a 98 in mine with the Digital OD but I had to replace the fuel gauge.

The digital OD was actually a midyear switch on the 97 and it remains to be seen if the fuel gauge will work on those. I suspect it might, if so then the 97 would be the best of both worlds.

I have never connected a V8 gauge so thanks for the heads up on the tach modification. It looks like I will be doing that mod quite a bit. The only one I have set up so far have been V6 and they are a plug and play. But a lot of people doing this swap have a V8.

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #711, 02-01-2006 11:38 AM
      The 97's still use the old fuel gauge (from what I have seen), which is probably why the PCB was designed with both gauges in mind to account for a future upgrade.

I also just wanted to put some of the info in one post, as some of it gets lost in all the posts

Tim

jscott1 MSG #712, 02-01-2006 12:11 PM
      Thanks Tim,

If you find out something about modifying the tach on the V8 clusterl let us know. In the mean time I probably will modify the V6 clusters for V8 instead. Can't have the 150 mph speedo that way but oh well.



Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #713, 02-01-2006 04:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
Thanks Tim,

If you find out something about modifying the tach on the V8 clusterl let us know. In the mean time I probably will modify the V6 clusters for V8 instead.

No problem - and actually that was a V8 cluster that I modified - the V6 cluster will modify the same way. With the V6 cluster you multiply the resistor by 0.75 to get the new value, on the V8 on you have to multiply by .5 to get the new value (in theory, I set the pot up to the new calculated value, but I still had to adjust it a couple of turns to make it read right - the .5 value is obviously off).

BTW: how much longer did you extend your bracket for the steering column and any pictures of where you bolted it to in the car? Did you remove the lower bracket as well?

 
quote
Can't have the 150 mph speedo that way but oh well.

Yea - us Canadians have to suffer with the crummy 250 ones

Tim

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 02-01-2006).]

jscott1 MSG #714, 02-01-2006 05:48 PM
      Do you have any more of those metric clusters? There is someone in the UK that is interested in one. I never see those on ebay even though I include Canada in my searches.

As for the steering column bracket, I didn't make any measurement, but from eyeballing it, it is about 8 or 9 inches, (20-23 cm) The top bracket is cut off from the vehicle side. The new bracket mounts to the hoop where you cut off the bracket but further towards the windshield. I used really long screws to bolt it up.


Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #715, 02-02-2006 11:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Do you have any more of those metric clusters? There is someone in the UK that is interested in one. I never see those on ebay even though I include Canada in my searches.

As for the steering column bracket, I didn't make any measurement, but from eyeballing it, it is about 8 or 9 inches, (20-23 cm) The top bracket is cut off from the vehicle side. The new bracket mounts to the hoop where you cut off the bracket but further towards the windshield. I used really long screws to bolt it up.

I have a 94 V8 cluster that I robbed the fuel guage from if that will work for you. Looks like the one in PBJ's thread (except mine is a V8 cluster as well - from a LT1 car): http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20031110-1-025069.html

...ok, you have me a bit confused with the steering column thing. The column has 2 brackets to hold it up, you removed/modified the top one and reattached it to the original mounting points. The other end you just screwed up into the sheet metal above it. The lower bracket is still intact - correct?

Also, do you happen to have the pinouts for the defrogger switch on the HVAC control? They are not marked on the housing as to which is A. B, C or D

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 02-02-2006).]

1986GTV8 MSG #716, 02-20-2006 11:31 AM
      A bump for you.

Need to keep this out of the archives.


thefox1 (thefox1@videotron.ca) MSG #717, 03-09-2006 02:56 PM
      Hi jscott1, do you have anymore of those plug and play firebird clusters??

here's my e-mail if you do: thefox1@videotron.ca

jscott1 MSG #718, 03-11-2006 10:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

Also, do you happen to have the pinouts for the defrogger switch on the HVAC control? They are not marked on the housing as to which is A. B, C or D

I just noticed that I never answered your HVAC question. If you are looking at the face of the firebird connector with the clip on top the pins are

D - C - B - A Where:

D - GND
C - 10A power
B - Power to defogger (switched)
A - 30A hot at all times


ICouldaBeenAV8 (donotbotherspamming@gmail.com) MSG #719, 03-14-2006 08:55 PM
      Bump for my subscription.

jscott1 MSG #720, 03-29-2006 06:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

power window connector >> 12101915 - AC Delco number PT187
power mirror connector >> 12085536 - AC Delco number PT144
power door lock connector >> 12101862 - AC Delco number PT254
light switch connector >> 12125632 - AC Delco number PT544

...but these puppies are expensive...

Edited to added the AC Delco part numbers...if there are others, let me know, and I will look them up.

Does anyone know the part number for the firebird headlight switch connector? I can't find it in my parts CD. I hear it's ridiculously expensive, but I would like to find a source for it at any price.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 03-30-2006).]

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #721, 03-30-2006 12:58 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
Does anyone know the part number for the firebird headlight switch connector? I can't find it in my parts CD. I hear it's ridiculously expensive, but I would like to find a source for it at any prince.

No GM # listed - AC Delco #PT1747, not cheap...

BTW: check here for all your connectors: https://www.rockauto.com


...and while I have your attention: what did you do for the front hood release lever (pictures if possible)??

thanks,
Tim

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 03-30-2006).]

1986GTV8 MSG #722, 03-30-2006 02:13 PM
      So just where are we with a "plug & play" wiring system for this conversion?

I have my dash, but the cluster is from a 99. Sounds like I am out of luck with that one....

Wish that I had seen you at the Daytona show last week.

I did take a pic of your dash in Proud 2.

Nice work.

GoldFiero86SE (dj_dontstop@hotmail.com) MSG #723, 03-30-2006 02:22 PM
      ^^^^ What he said

Looking forward to the plug and play

jscott1 MSG #724, 03-30-2006 02:56 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

No GM # listed - AC Delco #PT1747, not cheap...

Are these things Gold Plated, with diamond encrusted insulation?

I'm going to have to go another way on the headlitght connector. That's the only part I haven't been able to source out.

If you have followed my thread in the mall I am collecting enough parts to go into production on the Firebird PNP. I completed testing on the qualification unit and I am ready to go into production. I am taking pre-orders: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/031175.html

The pricing is going to be a bit higher than what I anticipated because of the higher price of some of these connectors. I was trying to see if I could use all new connectors but that doesn't seem feasible at the current price point. If someone wants all new connectors I can do that special order.


For the front hood release I plan to attach it to the underside of the dash. Presently it's laying on the carpet. Sorry I didn't get to meet everyone at Daytona. My goal was to just hang out and put a face with a screen name. I didn't get to do that as much as I had hoped.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 03-30-2006).]

Max The Chainsaw MSG #725, 03-30-2006 07:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


...and while I have your attention: what did you do for the front hood release lever (pictures if possible)??

thanks,
Tim

Here is a picture of what I did with the hood release on the ZR-2 Camaro dash. I didn't like the latch on the bottom of the dash, just didn't look right on the Camaro setup so:

Turned around and mounted to the side of the kick panel. Helps hold uop the carpet as well.



RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #726, 03-30-2006 10:00 PM
      Mine's just resting underneath, but I plan on mounting it hidded. No need letting someone get at the amps easily.

Bob

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #727, 04-21-2006 10:53 AM
      ***only applies to those with an engine swap that use the resistor/capacitor circuit to drive the stock speedo

Something I ran into with this install:

If you are going to (or are) do this install and have an engine swap, the speedo may not work correctly.

The problem all stems from the circuit that is added to the output of the VSS signal of the ECM. I will use the 4.9 as an example. The VSS out signal runs through a resistor/capacitor circuit to clamp the signal at a higher level so that it is usable with the Fiero speedo.

Refering to the diagram http://www.fieroaddiction.com/speedo.html

There is nothing that prevents the VSS signal from travelling back through the 1k ohm resistor and into the +12v supply. The Fiero speedo works due to internal buffering/filtering, the Firebird does not, as it has no internal buffering/filtering and what happens is that it gets the buffered signal from the Fiero speedo plus the signal through the +12v line and the 2 get mixed inside the Firebird's cluster. Now I am not sure if they partially cancel each other out or there is some harmonic produced (not about to figure it out either - spent the last week just getting this far), but the Firebird speedo now see's a 2000 ppm signal and displays 1/2 the actual speed that you are going.

In my case the 2000ppm signal that drives the cruise control was also affected (on the Fiero speedo). It's peak to peak voltage was reduced to around 50mV. This was not an issue for me as I am using a different cruise system, however the speedo was

To solve: you either drive the Firebird cluster directly from the ECM - (no Fiero speedo, no clamp circuit, etc - just a straight wire from ECM to speedo input); or you will have to block the AC (VSS) signal from travelling back down the +12v line. The first becomes a problem if you need a 2000ppm signal to drive the Fiero cruise module...

anyways, something to remember if you speedo reads 1/2 the speed you are travelling at
Tim

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 04-21-2006).]

jscott1 MSG #728, 04-23-2006 01:13 AM
      Thanks Tim, for pioneering this new setup. If/when I get around to doing this swap on my 4.9 I will know how to hook it up. My harness is designed for stock Fieros, and swapped ones are going to be on a case by case basis.

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #729, 04-23-2006 11:15 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
Thanks Tim, for pioneering this new setup. If/when I get around to doing this swap on my 4.9 I will know how to hook it up. My harness is designed for stock Fieros, and swapped ones are going to be on a case by case basis.


Opps, I was under the impression that you had a Firebird dash already installed in your 4.9 car Hence some of the questions I was asking you as I assumed you had it in and working correctly. Now I see...

I did let PBJ know about this problem as he was having problems on getting his speedo to work. I am not sure if he still has them problem with the different motor, but it is something to look out for.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 04-23-2006).]

jscott1 MSG #730, 04-23-2006 11:25 AM
      I know you probably don't have my fleet memorized, but my firebird interior is in my T-top which still has the stock 2.8. My chop top has the 4.9, but it is all stock on the interior.

What I've managed to learn about the issues with engine swaps I've learned from feedback from others. Like there is no such thing as a "standard V8 tach" There seems to be multiple ways an engine can reference the rotation, the DIS LT1 is different from a distributor 4.9. I'm told the Northstar uses a 4 cyl reference but I haven't confirmed that, and the LSx series uses something entirely different. Like I said earlier I'll have to deal with each swap as a unique case.


jscott1 MSG #731, 07-25-2006 01:00 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Like there is no such thing as a "standard V8 tach"


Well I have been playing with clusters again lately. If you saw my post in tech...my tach went all screwy on my Proud-2 (firebird swapped dash) but I was fairly certain it wasn't the tach. It turns out I was right my alternator went bad and was sending out all kinds of AC noise on the DC bus.

But since I had my cluster out anyway to test it, I decided to give myself an upgrade to a 150 MPH cluster. And to help trouble shoot some of these tach issues, I decided to get a signal generator. I can now do more than a single point calibration. I have also seen that it's impossible to get them accurate across the full scale, but since my car is a manual I wanted it accurate near the redline...so I have it dead on at 5,000 RPM.



Also in the interest of odometer integrity I finally found a cluster with less miles on it than my car. For me the digital odometer is like time under Einstein's Special Relativity, I can speed it up, slow it down, even stop it, but I can't make it go backwards. So I found that at about 400 hz I can get it up to about 300 mph and get to the proper mileage a lot quicker. I'm almost there, just another hour or so.

Also, I want to give a little cluster 101. If you are out looking for clusters and you want to know if it will work on the Fiero...just remember Blue or Green 5-6-6 = Good

Look at the 34 pin connector and the board on the back...If it is blue it will work (it's a 93 - 96 cluster)


If the board on the back is green, but the pattern on the bottom row, (the B row) is of the pattern 5 pins used, 6 pins unused, 6 pins used, (maybe with a slight variation) It's a 97 or 98 and can be used, (98 with a modified gas gauge)



If the pins on the B row are something like 1-0-1-0-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-0-0-1-1-0-0 Forget it, it's a 99-2002 and it won't work on the Fiero. ( I wrote the pin config to remind you that it's a digital board)



I hope this helps someone to pick out the proper cluster??

And maybe Tim can tell me how to extinguish the low oil light? My drawing says that if A15 is open the light should be off, but that's not working...I may just cut the trace, but I'm looking for a better solution.



Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #732, 07-25-2006 10:36 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

And maybe Tim can tell me how to extinguish the low oil light? My drawing says that if A15 is open the light should be off, but that's not working...I may just cut the trace, but I'm looking for a better solution.


The oil light has been an issue for me as well - for some odd reason the cluster (98) I currently have in my car the oil light is not on (probably burnt out of something), but every other cluster I have tried the oil light is always on (gage always reads fine this has been verified with a manual gage). I never had the time to pursue it any more - always trying to figure out the other 4.9 related problems (speedo, tach). Currently I am taking a break from the car, just driving it around and enjoying it, but I will have to figure out the tach soon - maybe my alternator is bad as well. I did throw the scope on it last week and noticed that the tach signal was far from being a nice pulse...

I do have one question for you or any others, my drivers door panel touches the dash, while there is a gap on the passenger side. I did not notice this when I originally install the dash and not about to rip it all out again and have to rework my airbox. I probably can be made to fit exactly but some cutting would have to be done around the console cut out. Anyways, my question is, how does yours fit in this area (gap between the dash and door panels)??

BTW - ooohhh, nice signal generator...mine is one of the predigital ones that came over with Noah on the ark, but hey, it's given me decent service - may not be the exact frequency (dial adjusted with numbers on it), but I can always set it with the scope if I need an exact frequency.

Tim


jscott1 MSG #733, 07-25-2006 10:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


The oil light has been an issue for me as well - for some odd reason the cluster (98) I currently have in my car the oil light is not on (probably burnt out of something), but every other cluster I have tried the oil light is always on (gage always reads fine this has been verified with a manual gage).
Tim


Thanks for the feedback Tim...

The "low oil" light has nothing to do with oil pressure, it's a discrete wired to an oil level switch in the oil pan of the firebird, connected through the Powertrain Control Module. When the switch closes, it completes a path through the PCM which provides a ground to A15 and the "Low Oil" inidicator lights.

But like most GM wiring I'm sure there is more to it than what is shown in the Factory Service Manual. I think there is a latch in the Instrument Cluster that keeps the "Low Oil" light lit under certain conditions...maybe if the PCM hasn't checked in after a while it assumes there is a broken wire and turns the light on? Obviously in a Fiero it's useless. I found that I could power cycle the cluster and the "low oil" light would go out. It's still a bit of a mystery.

Thanks for the compliment on the signal generator. I went to my favorite surplus electronics store and they have all this equipment that looks to be from Edison's original laboratory, and in the middle of it all I see this signal generator. I'm thinking I might get it for a couple of dollars but they inform me it's brand new and part of the display... lol

As for the left door that's the one area the Firebird dash doesn't fit so well. If you get the steering column and the right door correct the left door will hit. I have no idea how you fix that on stock door panels, but on mine I trimmed them dowm to make more room. I've trimmed the left one three times and it's still hits a little, you can see one little spot where it hits.


[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 07-25-2006).]

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #734, 07-26-2006 03:07 PM
      Ok, thanks for the info on the oil light, like I said I never really looked into it too much as it is not on with the cluster I have in there now. Maybe one day I will pull out the manual and have a look at it. I just assumed it was hooked into the oil pressure as it is with the Fiero (comes on with low pressure). But then I should know better than to assume things

Good to know that my door is not the only one that touches



jscott1 MSG #735, 07-26-2006 07:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

Ok, thanks for the info on the oil light


A little more info on the "low oil" light. I've figured out the pattern at least. The very first time you apply "hot at all time" power to the cluster the "low oil" will latch and stay on. The next time you power cycle the "hot in run" power the light will go out and not come back again on unless you cycle the " hot at all time" power.

This is only a very minor inconvenience as you will only see it if you disconnect the battery and it will disappear by simple turning the key to run and off. I didn't want to cut the trace to the light because it adds to the light show when you put the key in the ignition and the cluster performs the lamp test.

As a side note, the Fiero cluster does not have a "hot at all time" power connection to it. When I build my harnesses I add that. I never knew of a good reason for doing that before I just did it because that's what the drawing called for.


Nurb432 MSG #736, 07-26-2006 07:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TBK:

If you did one like this, I would buy it.






Does anyone offer that, or was it custom? Id love to update one of mine as well. Though, it looks like it could be a bit pricy..



jscott1 MSG #737, 07-26-2006 09:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Nurb432:


Does anyone offer that, or was it custom? Id love to update one of mine as well. Though, it looks like it could be a bit pricy..


Unfortunately no...The creator of that car was killed in a motorcycle accident before he could bring it to the market.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/041016.html


If you are interested in the Firebird dash send me a PM and I can give you all the information you need. I sell a kit to help with the some of the electricals, but the mechanical stuff you have to do yourself. Haven't had time to make a kit for that.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 07-26-2006).]

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #738, 07-27-2006 11:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
As a side note, the Fiero cluster does not have a "hot at all time" power connection to it. When I build my harnesses I add that. I never knew of a good reason for doing that before I just did it because that's what the drawing called for.


The hot always is for the memory in the cluster - also for those clusters with the digital odometer, it keeps the trip odometer memory as well. The cluster resets to initial startup mode when power is removed, which would explain the oil light thing (and resets the trip odometer)

The oil light on my cluster does not activate at all - so there is something wrong with it (does come on with different clusters, so the wiring is correct).

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 09-03-2010).]

jscott1 MSG #739, 07-27-2006 02:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

The oil light on my cluster does not activate at all - so there is something wrong with it (does come on with different clusters, so the wiring is correct).


Probably nothing wrong with it... Not all clusters have the "Low Oil" It was an option. Just like "TCS" "low coolant" and "skip shif" some have it, some don't I'm trying to make a "one-size-fits-all" Plug and play but I'm not there yet. My latest version has little ground loops that you can cut if you need to extinguish one of those nuisiance idiot lights.


jscott1 MSG #740, 08-02-2006 09:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


Not all clusters have the "Low Oil" It was an option. I'm trying to make a "one-size-fits-all" Plug and play but I'm not there yet.


Well, if anyone cares, I discovered there is more to the "low Oil" light than I originally thought. There is some timer that turns it back on after some interval. I ended up cutting the trace because my car needs to go be safety inspected and I didn't want a bogus, "low oil" light to fail me. I ptobably couldn't convince the inspector that I'm not really low on oil, it's just a light that's not hooked up to anything.



1986GTV8 MSG #741, 10-15-2006 12:37 AM
      God, I love this thread!

I finally got the correct year (1998) cluster, though I know I will need to change the fuel gauge out.

I hope to work on install just after Halloween.

A HUGE tahnks to all that made this thread what it is.

John


1986GTV8 MSG #742, 10-17-2006 09:11 PM
      So where did you get your 1998 firebird fuel gauge?


Ebay has been a Bust so far.

John


jscott1 MSG #743, 10-17-2006 09:14 PM
      The fuel gauge can be one from an earlier year Firebird. The mods to make it work are listed earlier in the thread.

I'll repost it here for convenience

 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

Fuel gauge in reference to a 98 dash:

On this cluster the fuel gauge is ECM controlled and needed to be replaced. I replaced it with a gauge from a 94 cluster, however some board mods were needed as it was not a direct plug in.

Referring to the picture below:
- remove the 3 jumpers marked with a red line.
- Install the 3 jumpers in the spots indicated by the black lines
- A 24 ohm ½ watt bias resistor is installed in the spot marked with a blue line

It was nice of who ever designed the 98 cluster to include these traces for the old style fuel gauge.


Hope this helps someone out
Tim

The tach solution for HEI motors according to Mickey_Moose (Tim)

 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

Ok, this may apply to other dash swaps out there with people running an engine swap using a HEI ignition system (ie: 4.9, carb SBC, etc).

Sympton: tach bounces, or work fine till the higher rpms.

Why: the modern tachs are driven off either the ECM or a DIS system and supplies the tach with a nice clean signal - the older systems such as the HEI have quite a bit of noise on the signal and the 'modern' tach can not deal with this noise.

This circuit should eliminate any noise and send a cleaner square wave to you tach input. Edit: fixed picture


I kind of took the lazy way out by hacking up an old Fiero tach to get the filtering circuit out of it. I also have no ideal if the component values are the same as the above diagram (never cheacked).

Sorry, I didn't have a working digital camera to take pictures as I cut up the board, but you should be able to get an ideal of where I cut it from the pictures.

Front view, the large round hole in the lower right is the input to the tach, the resistor pack (white chip) is part of the one that get removed when doing the V8 tach mod.


Rear view, shows a better ideal of the cut in relation to the traces. The brown wire is ground and the upper yellow wire will feed your tach. The lower yellow one is the input from the distributor.


Anyways, there you have it.
Tim

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 10-17-2006).]

OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #744, 10-18-2006 03:37 AM
      When I first started the thread I never expected it to morph into what it has become. Thanks guys for going the extra step to keep this alive so that it will encurage others to try something different (dash) to make our cars more up-to-date.

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #745, 10-18-2006 11:11 AM
      Just to add about the fuel gage - most any late model GM gage will work (pior to 98). I noticed the GrandAm, Grand Prix, etc gages are the correct size and such - just make sure that the one you get sweeps in the correct direction.

One other thing to point out is that the pin that holds the pointer arm is of different sizes (usually larger) on the older gages - so you will have to use a tiny drill bit to drill out the hole on the pointer so the old gage will fit, or use a different pointer. I was able to use a gage from a earlier Firebird dash and just used the pointer that it came with - it has a slightly different shape if you look closely.

Tim


jscott1 MSG #746, 10-18-2006 12:34 PM
      Thanks for the update on the fuel gauge Tim.

Untimately I find it to be a lot easier to buy the clusters with the working fuel gauge. But I have a set of 98s that I need to fix so knowing how to do it is nice. I have found people prefer the digital odometer so fixing a group of these 98 clusters is on my "to-do" list.


jscott1 MSG #747, 10-20-2006 11:43 PM
      Please post your Firebird dash questions here.

If I had thought about it, I would have started a thread in Tech with a more descriptive title, but it's too late now.

This existing thread is the most complete collection of Firebird dash install inforation, and I would rather post here than in ten other threads. Thanx



Sourmug MSG #748, 10-21-2006 01:48 AM
      You guys are doing a great job of compiling and documenting this swap! Keep up the good work. I just wish that this resource was available for the Stealth dash too.

Nolan


Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #749, 10-22-2006 12:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GTFiero1:

one thing that would need to be re-worked about the T/A and Camaro dash is the top dash pad. It is huge due to the gaping f-body windshield, i new dash pad would definatley need to be made. You have to pick up a used one to experiment with, you'll probably find more problems though, just because its the right width doesnt mean it fits. I like the dash a lot but you might wanna check one our with measurements and llok it over real closey before you cough up the $$$ for something that you may not be able to use



You do not have to make a new pad (I am assuming you are talking about the section between the dash and the windshield). You can simply trim the original one to fit (it's not too wide - ie left to right) - it's just a bit long (front to back). Make sure you get the one for the same year of dash you have, there is a slight difference in them in the curve between the passenger airbag and the air vents area (found this out the hard way and had to trim it it to the curve of the dash I have). Also of note, with the stock part you have to make fillers along the sides of the dash for where the original a-pillar trim came down and mated to the dash. The Fiero's a-pillar trim is not as wide. On the Camaro/Firebird they ran the side window defrost ducting through this area. Right now I just have filler strips cut from the cut off of the larger part. I believe others have made tweeter speaker pods to cover this area.

You could also go the route of mrfixit58 and make a new one. Easier if you have a parts car with no windshield as Roy had

Here is an old picture of mine using the stock piece trimmed to fit:

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 10-22-2006).]

jscott1 MSG #750, 10-22-2006 05:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


You do not have to make a new pad (I am assuming you are talking about the section between the dash and the windshield).


Tim, I think you just set a record for the most time between a post and a response...GTFiero1 posted that almost 4 years ago.

That filler pad has turned out to be the most painful part of my swap. I tried to be clever and graft on custom ends to the plastic(?) piece. The fiberglass/bondo doesn't want to stick so it's all cracked along the edges. I need to take it out and start over.

If you use the Firebird piece as Tim suggests you are left with the defroster oval in the center versus the long rectangle of the Fiero. I'm not sure how to reconcile that. What I have seen a couple of times it people put in the rectangular Fiero vent and fill in the oval vent with some kind of filler. Either way you have to do something to make it look right.


Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #751, 10-23-2006 10:52 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

Tim, I think you just set a record for the most time between a post and a response...GTFiero1 posted that almost 4 years ago.

That filler pad has turned out to be the most painful part of my swap. I tried to be clever and graft on custom ends to the plastic(?) piece. The fiberglass/bondo doesn't want to stick so it's all cracked along the edges. I need to take it out and start over.

If you use the Firebird piece as Tim suggests you are left with the defroster oval in the center versus the long rectangle of the Fiero. I'm not sure how to reconcile that. What I have seen a couple of times it people put in the rectangular Fiero vent and fill in the oval vent with some kind of filler. Either way you have to do something to make it look right.


Guess that is what happens when you surf the net while not feeling too good - but yay, I hold the record...

Actually I found the oval vent works just fine - driven the car a few time were I needed to defrost the windshield and it works just fine, the top left corner is a bit slow, but I think the hump for the gages is the main issue here.

The corner parts, I just have some pieces just sitting in there held down with some double sided tape - if I had half the skill as Roy, I would make a filler like he did all one piece


jscott1 MSG #752, 10-23-2006 08:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


Guess that is what happens when you surf the net while not feeling too good - but yay, I hold the record...


I spotted it right aways, because I almost did the same thing a few days ago... lol because Cliff's favorite thread deal takes you to the first page and at first I didn't realize it and thought that GTFiero1's post was recent.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 10-23-2006).]

Jefrysuko MSG #753, 10-23-2006 09:08 PM
      Mickey_Moose,

I'm actually glad to see your response as I have a few questions.

1. How are you diverting the air through the firebird oval defroster vent? Are you using the stock Fiero airbox?

2. Has anyone found a way to make functional side window defrosters? I think that I remember that Roy had done this but I couldn't find any pictures showing it.


Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #754, 10-24-2006 10:42 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jefrysuko:

Mickey_Moose,

I'm actually glad to see your response as I have a few questions.

1. How are you diverting the air through the firebird oval defroster vent? Are you using the stock Fiero airbox?

2. Has anyone found a way to make functional side window defrosters? I think that I remember that Roy had done this but I couldn't find any pictures showing it.


1) modified airbox, the defrost (top) section is still all Fiero (notch to accept the Firebird dash). The section that is modified is the part that bolts to the backside of the dash. It uses a combination of both the Firebird and Fiero parts as well as some custom parts. I think this was the most tedious part of my swap.

2) I currently have tubing just run over to behind the a-pillar trim and is directed at blowing to the rear of the car. There is a gap between the a-pillar and the trim so the air escapes out through there along the side windows. As far as I know, this is all Roy did as well. So far it seems to work fine, although it has not been really cold here (yet). I am thinking of finding some small round vents off a newer car to mount in the a-pillar trim and running the hose to them to blow directly onto the window (but I am not working too fast on it)


jscott1 MSG #755, 10-24-2006 11:47 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


1) modified airbox, the defrost (top) section is still all Fiero (notch to accept the Firebird dash). The section that is modified is the part that bolts to the backside of the dash. It uses a combination of both the Firebird and Fiero parts as well as some custom parts. I think this was the most tedious part of my swap.

2) I currently have tubing just run over to behind the a-pillar trim and is directed at blowing to the rear of the car. There is a gap between the a-pillar and the trim so the air escapes out through there along the side windows. As far as I know, this is all Roy did as well. So far it seems to work fine, although it has not been really cold here (yet). I am thinking of finding some small round vents off a newer car to mount in the a-pillar trim and running the hose to them to blow directly onto the window (but I am not working too fast on it)


I'd like to see that modified Airbox. Most people just use flexible tubing, but I think they reduce the airflow because of all the creases. I've got both the firebird and fiero airboxes sitting here and I would like to "crunch" the two of them together, but if you have already figured out how to do that I would appreciate seeing it.

I never found the Fiero defrosters too effective so I didn't even bother to implement that. The Firebird A-pillar trim has those little round vents that you seek, but I don't recall if they are removable. I can check later as I have a set of them.


The ROK MSG #756, 10-24-2006 04:14 PM
      I wish i had the skill to do all this stuff

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #757, 10-24-2006 06:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


1) modified airbox, the defrost (top) section is still all Fiero (notch to accept the Firebird dash). The section that is modified is the part that bolts to the backside of the dash. It uses a combination of both the Firebird and Fiero parts as well as some custom parts. I think this was the most tedious part of my swap.


Ditto. I used 2-part plastic adheasive that I got from the body shop supply store to piece the Fiero and Firebird pieces together. I used scrap pieces from the Firebird airbox to connect the two. Not the easiest part of the swap. If I had do-overs I'd use foam and fiberglass.

 
quote

2) I currently have tubing just run over to behind the a-pillar trim and is directed at blowing to the rear of the car. There is a gap between the a-pillar and the trim so the air escapes out through there along the side windows. As far as I know, this is all Roy did as well. So far it seems to work fine, although it has not been really cold here (yet). I am thinking of finding some small round vents off a newer car to mount in the a-pillar trim and running the hose to them to blow directly onto the window (but I am not working too fast on it)


That's exactly what I did. It probably wasn't necessary because I live in Florida but I did it anyway. I was goint to cut a vent into the A-pillar molding but I never found one that would fit like I wanted.



Jefrysuko MSG #758, 10-24-2006 10:48 PM
      Thank you all. I have thought about using the Firebird A-pillar and grafting it onto the Fiero A-pillar to make one piece which would cover the corners of the dash and have the vents in it. I havn't looked at the Firebird A-pillers yet though so I have no idea if this will work or not.

Another question I had though is how many of you trimed on the Fiero A-Pillars. I saw Roy's pictures of this but havn't seen any others which did the same. According to my measurments it will be necessary as the space between the Fiero A-Pillars is only 54" wide and the Fierbird dash is 56" wide.

 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

1) modified airbox, the defrost (top) section is still all Fiero (notch to accept the Firebird dash).


I'm still missing something here. How to you line up a long skinny (Fiero) rectangle with a short wide (Firebird) one?


Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #759, 10-25-2006 10:37 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jefrysuko:

Thank you all. I have thought about using the Firebird A-pillar and grafting it onto the Fiero A-pillar to make one piece which would cover the corners of the dash and have the vents in it. I havn't looked at the Firebird A-pillers yet though so I have no idea if this will work or not.

Another question I had though is how many of you trimed on the Fiero A-Pillars. I saw Roy's pictures of this but havn't seen any others which did the same. According to my measurments it will be necessary as the space between the Fiero A-Pillars is only 54" wide and the Fierbird dash is 56" wide.

I'm still missing something here. How to you line up a long skinny (Fiero) rectangle with a short wide (Firebird) one?


1) I thought about grafting the Firebird a-pillar as well, the only thing that might be an issue is the rake of the Firebird one. That is as far as I got, never got a Firebird one to try.

2) You will have to trim the a-pillar trim for it to fit - there is no way you can get the trim and the dash to fit without doing so - just make sure you do not make the cut to high.

3) Didn't have to line anything up, the oval vent sits directly over top the Fiero one (the Fiero one is a bit wider, but it seems to work just fine so far - and yes I am in the northern climates ). I can't get a picture of it due to the glare off the windshield. Your thinking too hard


jscott >> for some odd reason I don't have any pictures (or I can't find them right now) of the air duct. I did cheat on the passenger side a bit with some of the flex tubing. I could not find a glue that would hold the pieces together (odd type of plastic) and ended up having to plastic weld the parts together - very time consuming part of the swap.


Jefrysuko MSG #760, 10-25-2006 02:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:
Your thinking too hard


It wouldn't be the first time. I know that alot of these questions would be answered as I get into the swap so I appreciate all of you spending the time to answer them for me. I will be sure to return the favor when the time comes.


Jefrysuko MSG #761, 10-25-2006 09:50 PM
      Thought that I would share some pictures as I am a little excited to get started on this project.

Dash is completely striped down so that I can repair a few cracks in the fiberglass structure.

Unfortunately the right upper mounting point is gone as well.

You can also see the glue that was used on the air bag cover to make it look like the air bag wasn't blown.


never2old (gun4gtbl@aol.com) MSG #762, 10-25-2006 11:06 PM
      I know each one of us has our own talent. {still searching}
But you people amaze me with your electronic knowledge.


OH10fiero (scottfiero27@aol.com) MSG #763, 10-26-2006 12:35 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by never2old:

I know each one of us has our own talent. {still searching}
But you people amaze me with your electronic knowledge.


I can turn a wrench and make things happen with an engine, give me a wireing diagram and I am lost. I'm just glad I am not the only one.


jscott1 MSG #764, 10-26-2006 07:19 AM
      It's a good thing different people have different strengths. I can wire things up electrically all day long, but I suck at fiberglass.

Those mounting points on the firebird dash are very brittle. I found if you just pull on it too hard it will crack. So it might be a good idea to reinforce them even if they don't appear to be broken.


Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #765, 10-26-2006 12:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

It's a good thing different people have different strengths. I can wire things up electrically all day long, but I suck at fiberglass.


Looks like both of us are in the same boat (as long as it's not a fiberglass one that I made)

The mounting tabs, you can rivit some sheet metal to the broken areas - just use rivits with small shafts and large heads and washers on the backside. Ok that sounds a bit odd

Tim

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 10-26-2006).]

jscott1 MSG #766, 10-26-2006 12:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

I finished up the mode select today. There were a couple small issues with the original circuit I came up with. I needed an extra diode to block feedback current in the re-circ circuit and I found that I can't drive two modes at the same time, thus I no longer have a feet/def function. I'll post a new schematic once I can update it at work.

Bob


I'm finally devoting some brain energy to the all electric firebird HVAC controller. The reason why I used relays is one, because I'm a mechanical engineer and I can understand relays because they are mechanical, and two, the current drop through the diodes is too much to be able to drive the motors, or at least two at once.


1986GTV8 MSG #767, 11-03-2006 01:06 PM
      Anyone have this fit problem? http://www.images.fieroforum.com/pffimages2/99_fit_problem.jpg

In the red circle I can not get the dash to slide into the A pillar. It wants to crack the AC vent if I try to force it in.

My digitak camera is MIA so I used a pic from J Scott to explain.

Thanks.

John


jscott1 MSG #768, 11-03-2006 01:20 PM
      The pic I posted was from an electrical test of my harness. That dash is no where near as far back (towards the lower edge of the windshield) as it needs to be. As the A-pillars get wider at the bottom, the fit improves the further back you get the dash.

Still the left hand side is where you are going to have the most fittment issues. To get the dash in right there you probably have to squeeze in the dash to make room. It should not be wanting to crack the a/c vent though.

Make sure you remove the bezel from the gauges so that the dash is real flexible while you are getting it into position. Like I said the more the dash is pushed back the more room you have to work with from side to side.

Good luck.


1986GTV8 MSG #769, 11-03-2006 02:42 PM
      Thanks, perhaps if I start the drivers side in first then try the pass side it may work better as there is more meat there to take the pressure.

I was not aware that you gain room as the dash goes in further.

As always, great info here.

John


Amida (robert.kusakabe@comcast.net) MSG #770, 11-03-2006 03:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
As a side note, the Fiero cluster does not have a "hot at all time" power connection to it. When I build my harnesses I add that. I never knew of a good reason for doing that before I just did it because that's what the drawing called for.


The stock Fiero rally gauge pod has an oil pressure gauge with a built in red warning light. In my 355 swap, I hooked up a new VDO pressure gauge with sender & I have a separate warning light in the main gauge panel. How does the Fiero warning light work? Will I have to hook up a dedicated sending unit to light up my dummy light?

Thanks,
Rob
FieroInteriors@Juno.com






jscott1 MSG #771, 11-03-2006 11:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Amida:

How does the Fiero warning light work? Will I have to hook up a dedicated sending unit to light up my dummy light?



The red warning light in the stock rally gauge pod simply illuminates when the pressure drops below a certain value. It's not hooked to any pressure switch or anything like that.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-03-2006).]

Amida (robert.kusakabe@comcast.net) MSG #772, 11-03-2006 11:43 PM
      I see, thanks for the info. I'll have to then install a dummy light sender on the engine somewhere, maybe use a "T" with the existing unit.

Rob
FieroInteriors@Juno.com


1986GTV8 MSG #773, 11-04-2006 01:30 PM
      I got it to fit!

Removed both A pillars & opened both doors.

Must have been the passanger side door panel creating the pressure on the dash.

Now to mount it & fill inbetween thr windshield & dash.

Still can not decide if I should keep the original HAVC or use the Firebirds.

Guess it depends on weahter or not I can find a plug & play option for it.

Huge HINT J Scott.

I put on my steel ballls & used my circular saw witha metal cutting blade to slice off the steering mount.

No going back now. But it made a HUGE diffrence as to where the dash sits. I would not do id any other way.


GREAT thread!


John


jscott1 MSG #774, 11-04-2006 03:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 1986GTV8:

Still can not decide if I should keep the original HAVC or use the Firebirds.

Guess it depends on weahter or not I can find a plug & play option for it.

Huge HINT J Scott.


John


There are some nice cars out there with totally custom dashes that still use the Fiero HVAC. But for me that ruins the whole effect and reminds you of the 20 something year old dash.

I'm making progress in this area, I should have enough progress to post in a few days. As soon as all the parts I ordered arrive, I'll be building a prototype.



1986GTV8 MSG #775, 11-07-2006 08:49 PM
      Intersting thought (or so I think). What if I use the original Fiero dash part that goes form the windshield to the Firebird dash?

The fit from the windshield & defroster vents would be a perfict fit. Obviously I would have to stop/ modify where the dash curves up at the steeringwheel, but would give me a gerat fit at the windshield.

Thoughts?

John


jscott1 MSG #776, 11-07-2006 09:46 PM
      Regarding the filler piece between the dash and the windshield, the best fit that I have seen was with Roy's piece because it was custom made to fit in that spot and it fit perfectly.

1) If you use the Firebird part it will fit good at the dash, but then you will have to cut it to match the windshield.

2) If you use the Fiero dash top it will fit at the windshield, but it won't fit the dash, not even close. And the Fiero dash is all one piece, you would have to cut off the top and then try to clean up the edge that you just cut to match the firebird dash.

3) If you try and morph the two together it's going to be a mess.


By far the simplest of the three is option 1. The Firebird filler panel is some type of thin plastic. You can easily cut it to match the contour of the windshield. Then the only issue is the small corners where the A-pillar trim meets the dash. There will be small gaps there. Most people just glue down a little patch there or some little tweeters to cover it up.

I tried to morph the firebird panel with hand laid fiberglass and bondo and it delaminated and cracked all to pieces. If I could do it all over again I would just do #1 like everyone else.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-07-2006).]

1986GTV8 MSG #777, 11-07-2006 10:33 PM
      Can you post a pic of a shot through the windshield to show the filled space?

Obviously since your project is (DONE ?), it will give me an idea of how high up the dash sits & where the fill peice fits.

If I had my windshield out I would ASSume that this part of the project would be much easier....

Alas, it will have to wait untill' after Thanks Giving.

Thank you for your input to help a New Bee !

John


jscott1 MSG #778, 11-08-2006 12:04 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 1986GTV8:

Can you post a pic of a shot through the windshield to show the filled space?

Obviously since your project is (DONE ?), it will give me an idea of how high up the dash sits & where the fill peice fits.
John


This is how it looked shortly after I "completed" my filler panel.



I don't really have a picture through the glass but the fill piece fits at the same height as the dash, which should be level with where the stock dash is.

If you look at Roy's setup it gives you a better idea.








mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #779, 11-08-2006 06:05 PM
      Wow... Do those pictures bring back cold chills. The filler piece I made was not really that hard to duplicate if you've working with a donor car or the windshield is out of your's. If you look back at my build-up I think I go into pretty good detail on how it was made. But the Reader's Digest version is as follows:

- Cut 1" off of the front of the old dash and screw it into place along the windshield lip.
- Mount the dash.
- Make a masking tape dam filling the gap between the old dash piece and the Firebird dash.
- Apply the fiberglass (one or two layers) hint remove the screws from the old section of dash before it sets firm).
- Once set, remove the new piece, peel the masking tap and trim the fuzzys around the edges.
- Slip the piece back into place and, from the top, mark the defroster vent holes using a Sharpie. Because the fiberglass is transparent, it will show you where you need to cut after you finish the next step.
- Cover the Firebird dash and set the new piece into place.
- Apply a liberal amount of fiberglass reinforced filler (like MarGlass) to add depth and strength and let it set up firm.
- Remove the filler cut the defroster vent holes
- Finish the piece using Bondo.
- To get a really nice seal and fit, I speared filler all around the edges and set the dash back into place while it set up.
- Remove the piece, finish sand and paint to match.

It's not hard but does take a little patience.



Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #780, 11-09-2006 02:40 PM
      Original Firebird filler cut to fit (I transfered the shape along the windshield from the original dash). Cut some small shapes from the left overs from the firebird dash for the corners. The small parts where also heated with a heat gun and bent to match the curve of the dash. Note: you need to trim out a notch for the VIN tag:




through the windshield, kind of hard with the reflections:

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 11-09-2006).]

jscott1 MSG #781, 11-09-2006 05:11 PM
      That looks awesome! Good job.

1986GTV8 MSG #782, 11-11-2006 09:18 AM
      Great!

Thanks for the pics!

John


88White3.4GT MSG #783, 11-11-2006 12:41 PM
      nice work

BullRider (bob@replicacountach.com) MSG #784, 12-18-2006 05:29 PM
      I thought that I'd throw in a few shots of my dash conversion project. The car is an '84 Fiero that is currently in the last throes of conversion to a 25th Anniversary Countach. The car came with a crappy, half-assed Countach replica dashboard. I could have lived with it except that the previous owner had plumbed the defrost vents into the fresh air intake... turn on the defroster and it would have sucked everything into the dashboard! I quickly pulled and scrapped the POS. I was seriously thinking about making up my own custom dash, but a trip to the junkyard yielded a nice '97 Grand Am dash in perfect shape for $90 CAD. I couldn't turn it down. Here are some shots to show you what I'm up to:

The car:
This images is larger than 100K. Click to view.

This images is larger than 100K. Click to view.



The old dashboard:


And what I'm working with:


These are aftermarket VDO gauges put in place in a cutout that fits perfectly in the Grand Am gauge opening:


This images is larger than 100K. Click to view.



I need a place to mount my battery power gauge and I also need to fab up a filler plate, as you can see I've got quite the gap to fill up:



If anyone has any ideas on where to mount the last gauge, tips for running the HVAC ducting, or any other constructive critisism, be sure to let me know.
More info and pictures of the project can be found on my site at http://www.rc-sub.com/lamborghini.html.


jscott1 MSG #785, 12-18-2006 06:56 PM
      Nice work! I love the 25th Anniversary Countach.

For the ducts, there are some small ducts that are used to install aftermarket air-conditioning, they are the best. A distant second would be dryer ducting, or the flexible ducting you get at home depot.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #786, 12-19-2006 07:24 AM
      For the defrost vents, I used 1 1/2" vacuum cleaner hose I bought at Home Depot. For the larger side vents, I used 3" RV hose I picked up at Walmart.

Bob


Sharkman MSG #787, 12-27-2006 07:38 AM
      Started my Trans Am / Firebird interior build yesterday. Will post pics later this week. Not easy with the low windscreen in the choptop...

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #788, 12-27-2006 01:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:

Started my Trans Am / Firebird interior build yesterday. Will post pics later this week. Not easy with the low windscreen in the choptop...


There are times I wanted to remove the windscreen in my standard car - so I can imagine what fun it would be in a car with a chop top.

Anyways, like to see what you come up with - I am always looking for improvements


Sharkman MSG #789, 12-28-2006 01:44 AM
      Some pics


Next step is too cut this.




Must go more forward.


Could not place the door skins yesterday because of my small garage.
But I did get the firebird handles and drilled away the original.


jscott1 MSG #790, 12-28-2006 01:49 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


There are times I wanted to remove the windscreen in my standard car - so I can imagine what fun it would be in a car with a chop top.



Not that I've done it, but my windshield has been removed three times since it left Archie's shop after being chopped. Less than a week after I picked it up the new windshield Archie put in there got broken. I had it replaced at a local glass shop and I didn't like the quality of the glass. (the extreme angle will magnify any flaws). The guy removed it and replaced it with another at no charge. After I had the car painted the first time the shop destroyed the molding around the windshield and I had my glass guy remove the windshield and reinstall new molding. He never complained about it being harder than a normal windshield. I only hope I don't have to do that again after the latest paint job.




Sharkman MSG #791, 12-28-2006 02:02 AM
      A question. Do any of you have pics of how you cut up for the firebird door handle. I have only seen the pic from Jscott where the handle are in place. Also, did you get rid of all mounting points that are placed on the door? (The ones you could drill away?)
Could not open the door that mush yesterday soo I could not try the door skin on there. Have too move the car or start cuting...


jscott1 MSG #792, 12-28-2006 02:08 AM
      I removed the stock Fiero Door handle (which was one or two rivets) along with the mounting bracket for the stock door handle...then I made a small hole with some tin shears and drilled a new hole, (or two) for the firebird handle. The picture earlier in the thread shows my dimensions, (in inches) from some landmarks on the door.

BobadooFunk (bobadoofunk@gmail.com) MSG #793, 12-28-2006 02:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BullRider:

The car is an '84 Fiero that is currently in the last throes of conversion to a 25th Anniversary Countach.
blah blah blah!


TELL me you have a build thread! i cant wait to see that thing done



Sharkman MSG #794, 12-28-2006 02:13 AM
      Thanks!

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #795, 12-28-2006 10:51 AM
      Jonathan >> did you get me email about the seat parts??

Sharkman, what I have for pictures (opposite doors). Also I am making custom doors for mine so the placement might be different when using the original Firebird panels. The rods for both the handle and the door lock have been modified to fit (cut and welded back together for the shorter length). You can sort of see the weld in the rod for the door lock in both pictures right after the 2nd bend (from the visable end).

new hole cut for the firbird handle (original hole is the left one):


mounting plate made from some sheet metal and riveted to the door. The new handle location was in the valley of the door and it needed to come out.


Here is an earlier picture of my door panel progress, test fitting the original Firebird (simulated) 'leather' - too small, had to buy some new vinyl - sorry I don't have a current picture (the panel is all cover in tape right now so you can't see too much. This is turning into a year long project (and that is just the one side)

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 12-28-2006).]

never2old (gun4gtbl@aol.com) MSG #796, 12-28-2006 07:52 PM
      Oh my God..........The talent on this forum.

Sharkman MSG #797, 12-29-2006 05:13 PM
      Had too clear my head soo I took some beer and went out too the car. Will post measure ments later.
I used the measurement from Jscott1 too start with.


Made a paper model too mark where I should cut.




Just need some fine adjustment. But I can open the door now.


Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #798, 01-02-2007 03:07 PM
      just a quick picture of one of my more or less completed doors - looks like I have a color issue that I will have to take care of...anyways:

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 10-30-2015).]

Midshipman Easy MSG #799, 01-02-2007 04:24 PM
      Looks awesome !


Ken



BullRider (bob@replicacountach.com) MSG #800, 01-02-2007 04:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BobadooFunk:


TELL me you have a build thread! i cant wait to see that thing done


Lots of pics on my site at www.rc-sub.com/lamborghini.html. Feel free to stop in and take a look around.


jscott1 MSG #801, 01-02-2007 05:56 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

just a quick picture of one of my more or less completed doors - looks like I have a color issue that I will have to take care of...anyways:


That is beautiful. My winter project is to redo my door panels, (for the third or fourth time.) but I have a spare set of doors off a parts car so I can mock up the panels and make a mold so I won't have to do it a fifth time.



Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #802, 01-04-2007 02:12 PM
      deleted, see below

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 03-17-2007).]

jscott1 MSG #803, 01-06-2007 04:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

...just an update with the new color, does it work?? Seat color might be changed (haven't got that far yet)




Is that upholstered aound the outside? It's hard to tell from the pics. I suck at upholstery and fiberglass, so I'm thinking of throwing in the towel and having them done professionally. Yours are the nicest door panels I've seen yet.



lou_dias (loudfiero@gmail.com) MSG #804, 01-06-2007 04:33 PM
      That's beautiful!

Edit:

When do they go on sale...in black, preferably...

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 01-06-2007).]

jscott1 MSG #805, 01-06-2007 07:03 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:


When do they go on sale...in black, preferably...



Agreed my next set are going to be done in all black.


fierobuff (restrada@fmcc.com) MSG #806, 01-07-2007 10:58 PM
      Mickey_Moose: Can you give us a step by step on how you did your doors? They are fantastic!!

jscott1, mrfixit58, I bow my head in huge respect to your continued commitment to this project.


Sharkman MSG #807, 01-08-2007 01:57 AM
      Some progress. Started with making a paper doorskin...

Mounted on the door too check.

Paper doorskin + Trans Am doorskin

Trans Am doorskin on the car for test

Paper skin + Trans Am skin on the car

Paper skin with the right location marked.

Paper skin + Trans Am skin bolted together

Cut

Almost closed


My plan is too use the original mounting points on the door.
On the lower pics the door is mounted with the original mounts in the paper skin and the paper skin is mounted in the Trans Am skin.
Soo if I make a thin wood skin and mount on the back of the Trans Am skin. That would work.

[This message has been edited by Sharkman (edited 01-08-2007).]

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #808, 01-08-2007 11:18 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
Is that upholstered aound the outside? It's hard to tell from the pics. I suck at upholstery and fiberglass, so I'm thinking of throwing in the towel and having them done professionally. Yours are the nicest door panels I've seen yet.


Nope fiberglass of sorts, I wanted to duplicated the look of the Firebird panel (no vinyl - ok, so I am wierd ) I kind of just followed Roy's (mrfixit58's) lead and added my own thoughts (so he gets the credit for the ideal of modifing the original Fiero panels) - this was my first 'real' way of trying it this way (using foam/etc.) - see below for build.

 
quote
Originally posted by fierobuff:
Mickey_Moose: Can you give us a step by step on how you did your doors? They are fantastic!!


Build progress (of sorts), I didn't take a lot of pictures during it, but this is what I have done:

Removed the factory vinyl/carpet from the door, there was a bit of an offset on the front side of the panel that needed to be removed:


I basically cut out the ridge between the high and lower section so that the panel would lay flat (only had to go back 1/2 ways on the main panel). Sorry, I didn't take a picture of this. The panel was laid face down and fiberglassed of the back to join the 2 sections and to fill all the original cutouts in the panel.

I then used some fiberglass reinforced filled to smooth out the front side (didn't worry about the section near the rear of the panel as the door handle would cover it).


Test fit to make sure everything hopefully lines up. I also cut the door handle and speaker pod assembly.


Next was to draw the shape that I what, trying to duplicate the Firebirds panels some what. I used smaller dimensions as Fiero door is a bit smaller (looked kind of odd when I used the Fierbird dimensions). Sorry, again no picture.

Nexted, I found some Urathane foam in a spray can and covered the areas that needed to be built up and let dry over night. The next day using a hacksaw blade, file and sand paper I started to shape the panel. First I cut off all the excess with the hacksaw blade, then rounded the edges with a file and sand paper.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 10-30-2015).]

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #809, 01-08-2007 11:22 AM
      rounded edges.


next was to test fit again and transfer the edge of the dash to the foam and notch it out.


testing with door closed for clearances and modified as needed. (88 in the back ground feeling all left out)


checking dash/door clearances.


once I was satisfied with the fit, the door 'hardware' was removed so it could be covered.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 01-08-2007).]

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #810, 01-08-2007 11:40 AM
      Missing pictures for the next bit:

Next I covered the foam with some black fleece using some spray glue that was compatible with the foam. This was the nasty part as I seemed to have glue every place that I didn't need it.

After the glue had set up, I mixed some fiberglass resin (tested first to make sure it was compatiable with the foam) and using a brush, painted the resin all over the fleece soaking it down really good. The fleece took a large amount of resin to really soak it. A few places the fleece had let go from the glued foam and shrunk/or bunched after the resin dried, so I had to cut off the buched areas and fill the sections that shrunk. I just glued some new fleece in place and coverd with resin.

This picture shows one of the spot that needed to be repaired (along the bottom - yellow spot, the text of the fleece can sort of be seen as well).


I then spent a fair amount of time sanding the fleece down smooth and filled any low spots with the fiberglass enforced filler. I didn't particularly like the 'smooth' look of fiberglass after the sanding, so I painted all these parts with an interior texture spray paint (thanks to RCR for the info) and then painted black - here is a link to what I used (I bought it locally at a body shop supply store). http://www.detailandstripes.com/sem-39853.html

I then separated the foam backing from the original Firebird vinyl and glued it to the door to add some padding. The Firebird original vinyl did not work for me since I changed the dimensions. The above picture shows the Firebird vinyl and how it was short in a few spots.

Bought some new vinyl to match the original and glued it down, the edges were tucked underneath the fleece resin part to hide the edges.


Here is a close up that shows the texture.


Didn't care for the black, so here is how the door as it sits now, still a bit on the light side, but I am currently having the body shop supply store color match me some interior paint to match the color of the handle and dash.


The Firebird handle was attached to the door using screw through the panel into the areas on the handle that were used as attachment points on the original panel. Originally they were melted to hold them in place, I just cut the ugle meld ends off, drilled holes in my panel for the studs to fit it and drove some large screws in. I used similar screws to the ones that normally hold the bottom corners of the Fiero's dash in place (short screw with a 10mm head on it). The speaker pod was screwed and the tabs that were melted before were reused what I could. It is mostly held in place by the handle and one screw under the speaker grill.

One thing to note, the speaker pod is NOT in the same location in my car in relation to the handle as it sits on the original Firebird panel. The speakers are actually a bit closer to the handle in my car. You can see in this picture that the vinyl is too short (red circle) as originally the plastic back side of the pod assembly would have coverd the gap.


They are not 100% perfect, there is the odd flaw in them that showed up once they were painted in the grey, maybe they will hide a bit better with the darker color (I really don't want to sand them all down to fix them as they are fairly minor - I will pay more attention to the drivers doors). Now I just got to do the driver's side

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 10-30-2015).]

jscott1 MSG #811, 01-08-2007 01:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

I then spent a fair amount of time sanding the fleece down smooth and filled any low spots with the fiberglass enforced filler. I didn't particularly like the 'smooth' look of fiberglass after the sanding, so I painted all these parts with an interior texture spray paint [b](thanks to RCR for the info)[/u] and then painted black - here is a link to what I used (I bought it locally at a body shop supply store).


Thanks for the tip on the textured paint. It looked so good I thought it was upholstery. I tried some textured paint in one of my iterations, but the grain was too small to be visible and I was disappointed.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 01-08-2007).]

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #812, 01-08-2007 04:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
Thanks for the tip on the textured paint. It looked so good I thought it was upholstery. I tried some textured paint in one of my iterations, but the grain was too small to be visible and I was disappointed.



I found it worked best with very light coats (just letting it spit on the surface) and holding the can a min. of 12 inches away - I would have to say I was probably closer to 24".

I actually thought it would show up better as some of the directions I came across was to apply and then lightly sand to knock the texture down to what you want. For me it never got that pronounced.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 01-08-2007).]

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #813, 03-14-2007 02:24 PM
      just a quick update...

Here is my drivers door as it now stands, turned out a bit better than the passenger. Now to attach it and go back and fix the passenger side - I just 'might' get this thing done by the turn of the century.




Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #814, 03-16-2007 11:54 AM
      mounted:


inside:


There is interference with the parking brake, will have to see what I can do about that - till then, I just have to open the door to set it.


jscott1 MSG #815, 03-16-2007 03:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


There is interference with the parking brake, will have to see what I can do about that - till then, I just have to open the door to set it.


That looks good!! Mine interferes with the parking brake too, but I can still set it with the door closed. In the next iteration of my door panel I intend to make an indentation for the parking brake handle, but honestly the collapsed seat cushion creates more interference for me.


Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #816, 03-17-2007 11:18 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

That looks good!! Mine interferes with the parking brake too, but I can still set it with the door closed. In the next iteration of my door panel I intend to make an indentation for the parking brake handle, but honestly the collapsed seat cushion creates more interference for me.


...hmmm, my seats don't interfer - your parking brake doesn't...just need something in between.

I thought about the indentation part for the park, but I just used the factory plastic vs building a whole new section...


jscott1 MSG #817, 03-17-2007 11:30 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


I thought about the indentation part for the park, but I just used the factory plastic vs building a whole new section...



I'm using the factory plastic too, but since I have already grafted on fiberglass ends, it wouldn't be too difficult to take a notch out of the plastic and smooth it over with 'glass.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #818, 03-17-2007 12:38 PM
      WOW!! Nice job Moose.

Bob


Amida (robert.kusakabe@comcast.net) MSG #819, 03-17-2007 05:58 PM
      Very nice job on the door panels. It makes a huge difference over stock.

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #820, 03-18-2007 02:51 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

WOW!! Nice job Moose.

Bob


Hey - you inspired me when I saw your build post and though that just maybe I can do that too.

My second turned out way better than the first - I am currently trying to fix the first one one a bit.


Mr.Chipps (ih1940hay@gmail.com) MSG #821, 04-04-2007 08:45 PM
      Really First Class

Hager


jscott1 MSG #822, 04-13-2007 02:58 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

light switch connector >> 12125632 - AC Delco number PT544

...if there are others, let me know, and I will look them up.



I'm trying to stock up on parts to build more harnesses and I'm still having trouble finding the headlight switch connector.

By the way, the 12125632 is the dimmer switch connector.

I'm still trying to find that headlight switch connector. A GM part number would be appreciated if anyone knows it.



Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #823, 04-13-2007 12:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
I'm trying to stock up on parts to build more harnesses and I'm still having trouble finding the headlight switch connector.

By the way, the 12125632 is the dimmer switch connector.

I'm still trying to find that headlight switch connector. A GM part number would be appreciated if anyone knows it.


...hmmm, bad news - I don't have a listing for it, maybe the dealership might as they have a much newer version of the software (I just have an ancient version - good for the Fiero even though it has a lot of those DISCON (as part 34) next to the number )…36 is the connector, 37 is the switch, 42 is dimmer switch one:


BTW >> I found some sockets that will fit into the door trim, so I won't need those ones anymore - still interested in the ash tray one and the glove box - or if better, could you send me a picture of what they look like and I will go from there (maybe some other car has something the same).

Tim

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 04-14-2007).]

jscott1 MSG #824, 04-13-2007 03:56 PM
      Thanks Tim, my software didn't have it either. Must have been a late change or something.

I'm tempted to solder directly on the headlight switch, but I would rather not do that. That switch has to carry a fair amount of current.

I'm searching through all my parts bins trying to get enough parts to build some harnesses. I have firm interest in two, and I intend to build the prototype 1990 pod, which needs a mini harness. I should have the lights identified this weekend.


Sharkman MSG #825, 04-16-2007 05:47 PM
      Did the firebird dimmer work?
It´s alot like the fiero dimmer but better design with a ceramic board and cooling ribbs.
And the fiero dimmer only have 2 resistors.

Otherwise the fiero dimmer fits in the same spot next too the headlight switch and the "wheel" is the same and can be moved. But my fiero dimmer have been overheated ones. (still works)

[This message has been edited by Sharkman (edited 04-16-2007).]

jscott1 MSG #826, 04-16-2007 08:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:

Did the firebird dimmer work?
It´s alot like the fiero dimmer but better design with a ceramic board and cooling ribbs.
And the fiero dimmer only have 2 resistors.

Otherwise the fiero dimmer fits in the same spot next too the headlight switch and the "wheel" is the same and can be moved. But my fiero dimmer have been overheated ones. (still works)



The Firebird dimmer will not work, ...see coments below, you have to swap the Fiero Dimmer to the Firebird switch.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-17-2007).]

Sharkman MSG #827, 04-17-2007 02:11 AM
      Mine was a perfect fit. Just plug the fiero one next too the headlight switch. Or do you mean that there where trouble too get the "wheel" too fit in the fiero dimmer.

Had the two apart yesterday too check the difference. And found that the fiero one had a ground spring from the 2:nd connector too the blue board.
The firebird one did not have that spring and was built with more resistors. (Fiero only use 2) The plus if I could get the firebird too work would be that the ceramic board and the cooling on there are better. More reliable.

Worked with car electronics some years ago with the Haldex 4 wheel drive system on audi TT. There we used ceramic for the heating and soo on. (A fun note is that we had too modify the product just soo the Audi/Haldex people could turn the car arround with the handbrake durring the pressreleas. Otherwise the control unit wouldn´t allow that)


jscott1 MSG #828, 04-17-2007 02:20 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:

Had the two apart yesterday too check the difference.


The Fiero dimmer works in conjunction with a giant transistor mounted under the dash that has it's own integrated heat sink. The Firebird dimmer incorporated all the dimming functions into that one ceramic board with the heat sink. They are not interchangeable.

You can change the wheels if you prefer the newer one, by putting the new wheel on the Fiero Dimmer.

I had to edit my comments...You can mount the Fiero dimmer to the Firebird switch... I tried it years ago and it didn't seem to fit, but it can be locked into postition, just takes a little more force than what it does on the Fiero.

Either way you have to remove the Firebird dimmer and replace it with the Fiero dimmer, either the whole switch or the blue board.

But don't thow away those Firebird dimmers, I need them to convert into a socket for the Fiero harness to plug into.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-17-2007).]

Sharkman MSG #829, 04-17-2007 05:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


The Fiero dimmer works in conjunction with a giant transistor mounted under the dash that has it's own integrated heat sink. The Firebird dimmer incorporated all the dimming functions into that one ceramic board with the heat sink. They are not interchangeable.

You can change the wheels if you prefer the newer one, by putting the new wheel on the Fiero Dimmer.

I had to edit my comments...You can mount the Fiero dimmer to the Firebird switch... I tried it years ago and it didn't seem to fit, but it can be locked into postition, just takes a little more force than what it does on the Fiero.

Either way you have to remove the Firebird dimmer and replace it with the Fiero dimmer, either the whole switch or the blue board.

But don't thow away those Firebird dimmers, I need them to convert into a socket for the Fiero harness to plug into.



Thanks for the info. Will start wiring up everything tonight.


Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #830, 04-17-2007 03:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
But don't thow away those Firebird dimmers, I need them to convert into a socket for the Fiero harness to plug into.



I just stuck the Firebird one back into the Fiero switch plate - just in case some Firebird owner wants to swap in a Fiero dash, I could sell them this ready to go light switch


Sharkman MSG #831, 04-18-2007 02:01 PM
      Questions

PIN C3/1 TAN/BLACK is for the SHIFT light and worked on my car when I moved the AJAR bulb in the Fiero cluster.
I would like to use that in the Firebird cluster as well. Could I put in a wire in the B4 SKIP SHIFT for that?

PIN C3/13 Dark gren should be High temp warning light? Could I use A3 GRAY SECURITY for that? Or is there another one?

Also a bit comfused over the VSS signal. If I take the brown wire in C1, that should be the one right? And no other wire are used from the C1.
I have the -96 Trans Am cluster that goes to 250km/h. I gues I need to change the fixed resistor to a potentiometer on that one.

What I found in the Fiero was this pattern:
GRAY - illumination
BLACK - GROUND
PINK/BLACK - POWER (IGNITION ON)
There is more, will get back too that later on.



jscott1 MSG #832, 04-18-2007 03:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:

Questions

PIN C3/1 TAN/BLACK is for the SHIFT light and worked on my car when I moved the AJAR bulb in the Fiero cluster.
I would like to use that in the Firebird cluster as well. Could I put in a wire in the B4 SKIP SHIFT for that?



When I developed the wiring on my 88 it didn't have a working upshift light (88 Fieros don't have upshift lights) so I didn't worry about it. On the Fiero the C3/1 is a switched ground, meaning the wire goes to ground when the light should go on.

When I developed my Firebird wiring I used a V6 cluster which does not have the "skip shift" feature. I have no idea how the light works, if it works by grounding to turn on then you should be able to connect it to the "upshift" on the Fiero, (I assume the 250 kh/h is from the V8). If the Firebird cluster requires 12 volts to turn on the light, you will need a relay.

 
quote


PIN C3/13 Dark gren should be High temp warning light? Could I use A3 GRAY SECURITY for that? Or is there another one?



The high temp is another switched ground, you can hook it to the "Security" but I hook it to the "Low Oil Indicator" on A15

 
quote


Also a bit comfused over the VSS signal. If I take the brown wire in C1, that should be the one right? And no other wire are used from the C1.



To connect to the Firebird cluster you have to keep the Fiero speedometer board connected to C1... then you have to use the 4000 pulse per mile output on the board to drive the Firebird Speedometer. The 88 Fiero has a wire that provides that (the brown wire on pin M). The 86-87 GT board has that output but it may or may not go to pin N, (I had to find it directly on the board and not at pin N).

 
quote


I have the -96 Trans Am cluster that goes to 250km/h. I gues I need to change the fixed resistor to a potentiometer on that one.



Yes, if this is the V8 cluster, (and I believe it is) then you will have to modify the tach the way Mickey_Moose showed earlier.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-18-2007).]

Sharkman MSG #833, 04-18-2007 04:02 PM
      So if I dont have the Fiero cluster anymore... What too do then with the VSS signal?


jscott1 MSG #834, 04-18-2007 04:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:

So if I dont have the Fiero cluster anymore... What too do then with the VSS signal?


You are going to have to get a Fiero GT cluster from somewhere. One reason why my Plug and play harness costs what it does is that I have to start with a GT cluster just to get the speedometer board out of it.

You can try hooking the VSS hi (the yellow wire at pin s) directly to the Firebird speedometer at B12, but it will be an unbuffered sine wave. It may work, it may not, I've never tried it. But most likely it will be jumpy and erratic at slow speeds if it works at all. And if your ECM needs a VSS signal, (which it probably does) you won't have one, and forget about cruise control.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-18-2007).]

Sharkman MSG #835, 04-18-2007 06:23 PM
      I gues I will need too find a fiero V6 cluster then.

Another problem...
When using the firebird headlight switch I couldn´t get the headligh motors too go down again.
I gues the white wire need to be hocked up somewhere. The yellow opens them and the white should close.
Should the white wire go too PIN B?

Used this from page 15

[This message has been edited by Sharkman (edited 04-18-2007).]

jscott1 MSG #836, 04-18-2007 07:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:
...
and the white should close.
Should the white wire go too PIN B?




Yes, hook the white wire to the "B" terminal on the firebird headlight switch. If you have a connector from a firebird there won't be a terminal in the "B" position you will have to add one.

Or you can hook up a relay as shown in the other drawing. I've done it both ways.




Sharkman MSG #837, 04-19-2007 02:12 AM
      I will try and move PIN F to the B position then. Thanks Jscott. Your the best. + for you again.

jscott1 MSG #838, 04-19-2007 02:18 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:

I will try and move PIN F to the B position then. Thanks Jscott. Your the best. + for you again.


Are you talking about moving pin F on the Firebird connector to the "B" position? If so you will lose the illumination of the firebird switch.

I seem to recall there might be an unused pin on the connector, or you will have to find a similar connector with a matching pin.


Sharkman MSG #839, 04-19-2007 09:14 AM
      I see. Got another PIN for the B and now have everything working with the Headlight switch. Thanks.

Sharkman MSG #840, 04-20-2007 01:43 AM
      I think I will get a SGI-5 Universal Signal Interface Unit too solve my VSS problem. Will be the same cost as getting a used GT cluster...


jscott1 MSG #841, 04-20-2007 02:19 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:

I think I will get a SGI-5 Universal Signal Interface Unit too solve my VSS problem. Will be the same cost as getting a used GT cluster...


That should work...probably easier for you. I considered putting those in my harness, but it would have made it more expensive.


Sharkman MSG #842, 04-20-2007 09:25 AM
      More questions

PIN A13 ORANGE on the firebird side, Can I use one of the PINK/BLACK power.
Or should that be a +12V at all times? I don´t have the never cluster with digital trip meter?

If I connect the tach wire without changing the cluster, what reading will I get? Could that harm the tach?
I am going to modify the cluster, but I want too know if I should wait to connect the wire until thats done.


jscott1 MSG #843, 04-20-2007 11:20 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:

More questions

PIN A13 ORANGE on the firebird side, Can I use one of the PINK/BLACK power.
Or should that be a +12V at all times? I don´t have the never cluster with digital trip meter?



That's a good quesiton, the Fiero cluster does not have a "hot at all times" wire, the Firebird with the digital cluster needs that or the trip odometer will be lost every time the car is shut off. On the non-digital odometer it's probably alright. The cluster may go through a self-test everytime but that probably won't hurt it. If I were doing it though, I would hook it to a power wire that is hot all the times, since that's what it's expecting, that's how I do my harnesses.

 
quote

If I connect the tach wire without changing the cluster, what reading will I get? Could that harm the tach?
I am going to modify the cluster, but I want too know if I should wait to connect the wire until thats done.


Since the cluster is expecting a V8 it will calculate RPM based on 4 pulses equals one revolution. Since your V6 only has 3 pules per revolution, the Tach will read 3/4 of the actual RPM. It won't hurt it. You will have to change the calibration as Tim has shown earlier in the thread.


Sharkman MSG #844, 04-20-2007 11:26 AM
      Thanks. Will take pictures later today if things dont burn...

Sharkman MSG #845, 04-20-2007 02:27 PM
     
Engine on but I get some ABS INOP and LOW TRAC is on. Not connected on the wires. Just take away the bulbs?
Also, I could not find any indication for AJAR but there was a wire for that.
FUEL GUAGE - OK
SERVICE ENGINE - OK
BRAKES - OK
HIGH BEAM - OK
FASTEN SEATBELT - OK
GEN OUTPUT - ?VOLT METER?
LOW OIL - NOT CONNECTED BUT LIGHTS UP?
AJAR - ?
COOLANT TEMP - HAVENT HAD THE CAR RUNNING FOR LONG
IP ILLUMINATION - OK, + dimmer
SKIP SHIFT - MOVED BULB FROM ABS INOP BUT NOT WIRED UP
RH TURN SIGNAL - OK
VSS - NEED PARTS.
TACH - NEED MOD BUT MOVES
LH TURN SIGNAL - OK
OIL PRESSURE - OK

Thanks for all the help Jscott. I used the red wire from the headlight switch for A13



jscott1 MSG #846, 04-20-2007 03:08 PM
      Good Work Sharkman,

There are a lot of wires to keep track of and you are doing very well. Just a few loose ends to tie up.


 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:

Engine on but I get some ABS INOP and LOW TRAC is on. Not connected on the wires. Just take away the bulbs? Also, I could not find any indication for AJAR but there was a wire for that.


You can remove the bulbs from the ABS INOP and the LOW TRAC if you want to, obviously a Fiero does not have traction control or ABS. I hook the AJAR wire on the Fiero to the LOW TRAC light, just so I don't lose the AJAR function.

By the way, you might have LEDs for the warning lights and they are not so easily removed, if you do then you have to cut the trace on the circuit board.

 
quote


GEN OUTPUT - ?VOLT METER?


I hook the gen output on the Fiero to A14 on the Firebird in case the generator, (alternator) needs the turn on feature.

 
quote


LOW OIL - NOT CONNECTED BUT LIGHTS UP?



If you saw my posts earlier, I could not find a way to make that light go out permanently, I cut the trace on that LED.


 
quote


AJAR - ?



see earlier comment


 
quote

SKIP SHIFT - MOVED BULB FROM ABS INOP BUT NOT WIRED UP


see earlier post you might be able to use that as a shift light.


 
quote

VSS - NEED PARTS.


By the way, looking at your cluster it is the same as the ones used in the USA with MPH as primary. I don't believe it will be calibrated properly for KPH. You might need the Dakota Digital converter afterall. Let me know how that works out.

 
quote


Thanks for all the help Jscott. I used the red wire from the headlight switch for A13



That's how I do it too, smart choice...

Most people are afraid of wiring,

I admire your courage to take it on, You are almost finished. Good Job.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 04-20-2007).]

Sharkman MSG #847, 04-22-2007 09:36 AM
      A14 that you connected the gen output to. What light is that. So I dont take away the wrong bulb...



jscott1 MSG #848, 04-22-2007 11:40 AM
      As far as I know there is no actual bulb like on the Fiero, just a built in resistor somewhere.



Sharkman MSG #849, 04-22-2007 06:18 PM
      OK, thanks.

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #850, 04-23-2007 01:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
By the way, looking at your cluster it is the same as the ones used in the USA with MPH as primary. I don't believe it will be calibrated properly for KPH. You might need the Dakota Digital converter afterall. Let me know how that works out.


heh - the kph is printed on the face under the larger mph


jscott1 MSG #851, 04-23-2007 02:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


heh - the kph is printed on the face under the larger mph


I don't know if the cars designed for KPH have the same 4000 ppm VSS senders?? I don't have a clue, if they are then he will be fine.


Sharkman MSG #852, 04-23-2007 04:58 PM
      I am thinking of buying the Dakota converter both for the Tach and the VSS.
That way I wont have problems when I change the engine next time...
$80 x 2 + shipping and tax. But the Swedish crown are strong right now so thats OK.

[This message has been edited by Sharkman (edited 04-23-2007).]

jscott1 MSG #853, 04-23-2007 06:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:

I am thinking of buying the Dakota converter both for the Tach and the VSS.


Yeah, like I said I could build the converters into my harness but that would drive up the cost and put it out of reach for most people. But it's a good idea, because if you change the tranny you might need to convert the VSS and if you change the engine you might need to convert the tach.


Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #854, 04-24-2007 02:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:

I don't know if the cars designed for KPH have the same 4000 ppm VSS senders?? I don't have a clue, if they are then he will be fine.


...it's all 4000 ppm despite what sender is used - the speedo has to receive 4000 ppm to work correctly (that kind of seems to be the GM standard for the speedo input signal for all of their cars). The kph scale is just printed in reference to the mph scale with the conversions factor (or vise versa if you have the metric gage) - a 100 kph reading would roughly indicate 62.5 mph on the gage.


jscott1 MSG #855, 04-24-2007 03:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


...it's all 4000 ppm despite what sender is used - the speedo has to receive 4000 ppm to work correctly (that kind of seems to be the GM standard for the speedo input signal for all of their cars).


Okay, so If I got a cluster with 0 -250 KPH as primary then it's going to be just as accurate in the same car as a 0 -155 MPH cluster because both clusters are expecting a 4000 ppm signal?

That's logical, but I didn't know that it worked that way. Then Sharkman should not need any conversion on the sppedo...but he'll need to modify the tach since he has a 3.4 V6 and that cluster was designed for a V8.



Sharkman MSG #856, 04-24-2007 04:58 PM
      But if I use the SGI-5 and the SGI-8 I should be able to calibrate the cluster without modifications? Right?



jscott1 MSG #857, 04-24-2007 05:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:

But if I use the SGI-5 and the SGI-8 I should be able to calibrate the cluster without modifications? Right?



Unless you change your transmission you won't need the SGI-5.

The SGI-8 will fix the tachometer without cluster modification.

However, it's $80 USD + shipping. The cluster modification costs maybe a couple of dollars for the resistors. If you follow Mickey_Moose's instructions, it's not that hard.


Sharkman MSG #858, 04-24-2007 05:58 PM
      You are right. I will think it over.

Sharkman MSG #859, 05-01-2007 04:34 PM
      First picture on the part cut away. But the area markt have been cut as well. Most of the cuts have been made by hand because of the lowered windshield. Hard work!

Next. Dash in place but need to move the stearing column up.

Like this.

From the side to show how far in I got the dash.



jscott1 MSG #860, 05-01-2007 04:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:
From the side to show how far in I got the dash.




That looks very good! My congratulations.

For the next person to make the cut, it might be hard to see, but I put the sawzall on the floor with the blade up and was able to cut through easily. For a Chop top that might be the only way to do it.




Sharkman MSG #861, 05-27-2007 05:15 AM
      My "new" bracket for the stearing column



Wanted to keep the safety and the original look.
Will post pictures of the bracket installed tonight.

[This message has been edited by Sharkman (edited 05-27-2007).]

1986GTV8 MSG #862, 05-31-2007 10:35 PM
      My God, now I will have to read the whole 22 pages again to see what I have missed since a few months ago.

Outstanding information here. I just wish that I could find the time to finish my install.


Sharkman MSG #863, 06-26-2007 05:47 PM
      Need some help with my SGI-5 unit.
I have the 250km/h speed cluster from a Trans Am 96 (V8)
And Fiero ECM with a 3.4 camaro V6

Here are the switch options:

Switch#-----OFF


Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #864, 06-27-2007 10:41 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:

Need some help with my SGI-5 unit.
I have the 250km/h speed cluster from a Trans Am 96 (V8)
And Fiero ECM with a 3.4 camaro V6

Here are the switch options:

Switch# OFF ON
1 SIGNAL GENERATOR SPEED INPUT ECM/PCM SPEED INPUT
2 HIGH SENSITIVITY LOW SENSITIVITY
3 OUT3/4/5 SET FOR LOW SPEED IN OUT 3/4/5 SET FOR HIGH SPEED IN
4 SLOWER OUTPUT FASTER OUTPUT

INPUT / OUTPUT OPTIONS (OC = open collector, closes to ground)
SWITCH # 3 SIGNAL IN OUT1 OUT2 OUT3 OUT4 OUT5
ON 64k - 256k 128k AC 128k OC 8000 AC 4000 OC 2000 OC
OFF 4k - 16k 8000 AC 8000 OC 4000 AC 4000 OC 2000 OC

Have the yearly inspection next week and need this working before that.

Also, the fiero door lock. Are they + or - operated? Starting to be confused when conecting a new cargard alarm.


VSS sender out is 4k - speedo input is 4k
1=off, 3=off, and I am just guess here 2=on, not sure what 4 is all about - I would guess off

All switches are -ve operated in the Fiero

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 06-27-2007).]

Sharkman MSG #865, 06-28-2007 11:09 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


VSS sender out is 4k - speedo input is 4k
1=off, 3=off, and I am just guess here 2=on, not sure what 4 is all about - I would guess off

All switches are -ve operated in the Fiero



Thanks, I will try that.



DIY_Stu MSG #866, 06-30-2007 04:02 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


To connect to the Firebird cluster you have to keep the Fiero speedometer board connected to C1... then you have to use the 4000 pulse per mile output on the board to drive the Firebird Speedometer. The 88 Fiero has a wire that provides that (the brown wire on pin M). The 86-87 GT board has that output but it may or may not go to pin N, (I had to find it directly on the board and not at pin N).


I have been tinkering with a couple clusters and through book research I've seen that the Fiero VSS is a 4000 PPM Generator. So it should work. It shows a resistor in the breakdown of the speedo circuit but that's just current limiting. Don't see why a direct connect wouldn't work. If you already have the SGI-5 then use it for tire calibration.



Sharkman MSG #867, 06-30-2007 07:30 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:
All switches are -ve operated in the Fiero



I am pretty sure that the door locks are + operated


jscott1 MSG #868, 06-30-2007 05:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DIY_Stu:


I have been tinkering with a couple clusters and through book research I've seen that the Fiero VSS is a 4000 PPM Generator.


It's true the Fiero VSS is a 4,000 Pulse Per Mile generator, but it is a sine wave, (or even triangular wave) that increases in amplitude with speed. At low speeds your speedometer is going to be very erratic. The buffer curcuit in the Fiero Stock circuit buffers that wave into a square wave. It also has a divide by two circuit to send 2,000 PPM to the ECM and the Cruise control, (if you have it.). Without a VSS signal the Fiero ECM will set a code. I don't know about the 3.4, but I'm guessing it will as well.

So yes you can connect the VSS directly up to the Camaro/Firebird cluster but it's not going to work as well, if at all.



Synthesis (synssins@gmail.com) MSG #869, 06-30-2007 07:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:



I am pretty sure that the door locks are + operated


Yes, the door locks are +..

Power door unlock is Black. Lock is Lt Blue.

I have used them in mine on my aftermarket door locks. I use them in a -V form. They trigger lock and unlock with a tiny bit of wiring.


Sharkman MSG #870, 06-30-2007 08:00 PM
      02.00 night to sunday here...
The car alarm is installed and working, left on the car before the yearly inspection is to get the ventilation and dash in. That will be done tomorrow. Pics then.

Good night.



Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #871, 07-01-2007 02:26 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sharkman:
I am pretty sure that the door locks are + operated


opps, my bad, I didn't pay close enough attention to the question - however, you should use relay's on the door locks, then it does not matter if it's + or -


Haagster MSG #872, 07-01-2007 07:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
So yes you can connect the VSS directly up to the Camaro/Firebird cluster but it's not going to work as well, if at all.


I will confirm that connecting the VSS directly to a Firebird cluster from a 4.9/4T60e combination (via ECM - not what I said, but what I meant ) does work well (learned from trial-by-error) - if that helps any...

[This message has been edited by Haagster (edited 07-01-2007).]

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #873, 07-01-2007 12:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Haagster:
I will confirm that connecting the VSS directly to a Firebird cluster from a 4.9/4T60e combination does work well (learned from trial-by-error) - if that helps any...


I can also confirm this: 4.9/Isuzu to Firebird...direct connect from the Caddy ECM to the Firebird gauges...the Caddy ECM does the filtering...

...the tach is not a direct connect from the 4.9 to the Firebird - I made a previous post in this thread about these problems.

The Fiero VSS is not compatiable, as jscott1 meantioned...

...also, you can not, with the 4.9/Firebird gauges, use the Fiero cruise setup without using the Fiero speedo for the 2000 ppm output

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 07-01-2007).]

Haagster MSG #874, 07-01-2007 12:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:
...also, you can not, with the 4.9/Firebird gauges, use the Fiero cruise setup without using the Fiero speedo for the 2000 ppm output


Doesn't the Caddy ECM have the cruise function? I don't recall without looking at my notes, but I remember Rockcrawl told me that I would just need to lengthen the wiring to the ECM to use the the cruise circuit - and it would would work better than the Fiero ever did (had problems with the Fiero stuff).

[This message has been edited by Haagster (edited 07-01-2007).]

DIY_Stu MSG #875, 07-01-2007 01:07 PM
      The caddy ECM filters the speedo signal. The Caddy has a cruise control output but IIRC it's an 8000ppm signal.

Sharkman MSG #876, 07-02-2007 04:04 AM
      Sorry, no pics yet.
The yearly inspection is tomorrow morning and I still have some small thing to do.
Will take some pics tonight when the dash is in place. Had to change the ventilation one last time...
Doors not done but will do that after the inspection.


Sharkman MSG #877, 07-02-2007 06:05 PM
      Dash done...




But I have some problems
The speedo don´t work. No signal to the SGI-5? Green light always on. Do I need to use the ground from the same location?
Tach works but acts strange when I let of the gas sometimes.
Temp gauge don´t work.


Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #878, 07-02-2007 07:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DIY_Stu:
The caddy ECM filters the speedo signal. The Caddy has a cruise control output but IIRC it's an 8000ppm signal.


not according to the wiring diagrams - [u]the 4.9 ECM does not have a cruise output signal,[u] nor does it need one, as cruise is done internal to it and does not need a seperate cruise module like the stock Fiero has. As a side note, the only outputs the 4.9 ECM has are Pins B/11 and B/12, both @ 4000 ppm, says so right on the diagram.

Sharkman - sorry if you meantioned this, but what engine are you running? I assume you did the tach mod, the V8 clusters uses the ECM to supply the tach signal in the Firebird and it will not work even close to correctly in the Fiero. As for the speedo problem - it could be the switches on your converter are not set up correctly.


jscott1 MSG #879, 07-02-2007 09:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:


Sharkman - sorry if you meantioned this, but what engine are you running? I assume you did the tach mod, the V8 clusters uses the ECM to supply the tach signal in the Firebird and it will not work even close to correctly in the Fiero. As for the speedo problem - it could be the switches on your converter are not set up correctly.


Isn't he running a 3.4 V6? He should not be having this problem.

Also, the 93-97 LT1 (V8) clusters will work just fine with the Fiero. I'm running a 97, 155 mph cluster in my stock 88GT and it works perfectly.

I think you meant to say the LS1 (98-2002) won't work right with the Fiero.