NW LS4 build
Topic started by: Dogcreek, Date: 04-01-2010 09:22 PM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000115.html


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #1, 04-01-2010 09:22 PM
      Fiero nuts....

Another LS4 build has begun... This is a LS4 with tranny and all electronics from a 2007 GP GXP with 25k acquired from Eric at Morad Motors... It is going into my 1986GT seen here...



I am working with Joe (FieroKing) on this.... He is doing the swap and I am helping... or staying out of the way... whatever he wants... LOL




It is going onto an 88 cradle...... Not planning on using DoD or the BCM.... pretty much a straight swap with A/C, no power steering and with much of the "stuff" turned off... ie, tranny protect, wheel sensors, etc.....

Also doing a shock/strut upgrade and a brake upgrade... We are hoping to do a push button tranny and steering wheel mounted paddles...

So here we go... I have held off on sharing the start as it has been a long time coming... But it is time... The "check wallet" light is glowing brightly...

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-04-2012).]

F355spider (nixon@itexas.net) MSG #2, 04-01-2010 09:27 PM
      I hope this is a good DIY thread with a lot of pictures.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #3, 04-01-2010 09:29 PM
      I'll race ya, wait, no I won't..



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #4, 04-01-2010 09:33 PM
      Gonna do my best on that.... this is a bit of a milestone for me as I have planned to do a V8 swap since I had my first ride in a Fiero many years ago.... I have watched so many successful awesome builds here that I have been a bit obsessive (what Fiero guy isn't) and finally have a car and the means and an expert to help me do it right... Plus a very supportive club that loves to get involved with other members cars (Inland Northwest Fiero's)

So... here we go...... It will be an "E" ticket ride for sure!! Hey Aaron!! Lets get cracking on these cars... Let me know if when you want to get cracking again on yours!! What goes around comes around!!
Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-07-2012).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #5, 04-01-2010 09:38 PM
      Dunno what you're talking about, I got my custom flywheel, clutch and transmission mounted up yesterday, and the engine mounts on the cradle..

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #6, 04-01-2010 09:47 PM
      As I suspected... You are a machine when it comes to this kind of stuff... I am heading to Joe's on Saturday... Want to go? Like to see your progress too... It has been too long since we took out the torches and hammer and starting fixin' stuff LOL

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-01-2010).]

dratts (dratts2@gmail.com) MSG #7, 04-01-2010 11:36 PM
      April fool right?

dratts (dratts2@gmail.com) MSG #8, 04-02-2010 12:03 AM
      Just kiddin'

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #9, 04-02-2010 12:39 AM
      Do you have the tap shift tranny?



helmet1978 (helmet@raceme.cc) MSG #10, 04-02-2010 01:12 AM
      Go INW!

You guys are just trying to increase the competion in the Super Mod class at the NW Fiero Fest aren't you

4.5 months and counting!



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #11, 04-02-2010 06:15 PM
      Hi Rick... yes it came with the tap shift stuff.... Say did you make your own engine mounts?

Jeff


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #12, 04-03-2010 02:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Hi Rick... yes it came with the tap shift stuff.... Say did you make your own engine mounts?

Jeff


I got my mounts from West Coast Fiero and modified them. I cant seem to just leave anything alone I used the WCF brackets on the engine and tranny and made my own brackets on the cradle. For what I use the car for, I would not use the polly again. I would make my own custom mounts with the factory fluid filled LS4 mounts. For me, the polly is just way to stiff and transmits to much vibration and noise into the car. But others might not think it is that bad. One cool thing about the WCF mounts is that they had a reverse mount alt option to put the alternator in the stock battery location. Also they have a really cool coolant fill neck that bolts to the side of the head.


I have the tap shift tranny controle modual, tap shift controles on the steering wheel and wire diagrams for it but I dont have the tranny;( Some day maybe I will convert it to tap shift.



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #13, 04-04-2010 06:23 PM
      Hi Rick, good info... thank you... Got some pics of what Joe has made and they look great.. I will post them in a bit...

Well, we looked at some things and it looks like if I want to use the cruise I have to get the BCM... Right? Plus I think I need to get a factory GXP wheel and shifter if I want to keep all of that stock.. Anyone have a stock GP-GXP wheel and shift linkage setup...? The tranny is all setup for it and when I bought it I thought it have everything it would need... but no... not a major thing... just need to find the parts

Anyway more later... including todays pics..

Jeff


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #14, 04-05-2010 02:32 AM
      The BCM will need a lot of "other things". It is a complex electrical system.

I did get the shifter for my LS4 swap, but it is not the tap shift type. That did not matter anyway because the shifter is a HUGE plastic monstrosity that has an ice cube's chance in hell of fitting in the Fiero in a "conventional" configuration. I took the lock out switch off the shifter and modified it to work on the modified Fiero shifter. BTW there is also an electronic lockout in the GXP steering column that works with the shifter lock out. The shifter wont shift and you cant pull the key out if the system fails or blows a fuse.
The Tap Shift shifter is different but still WAY to large to install in the Fiero. But you may still use parts off of it?

BTW I may have the only automatic "short shifter" in a Fiero? I think I cut my shifter down by 3".



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #15, 04-05-2010 09:30 PM
      Thank s Rick, well... lots to think about around the cruise control and shift setup....

Anyway here are the pics from this weekends progress...

Test fitting and measurements for the mounts



Another view...



Out with the old and in with new...one of the mounts Joe is fabricating...



Here is one little tight spot that will require a small notch.. Engine
is sitting low in this pic but it is pretty tight right here...



And of course a pic of Joe's 4.9 - Nice ride here!!




Now we are making headway!!!

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-04-2012).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #16, 04-06-2010 02:13 AM
      If I could make a sugestion, I would say try to move the engine a little further to the driver side. Cut out small indentations in the cradle for the tranny. That way you wont have to cut into the Fiero frame rail on the passenger side.



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #17, 04-06-2010 11:44 AM
      Rickady,

The only reason he needs to notch it is for the oil filter, the engine/tranny sits dead center in the cradle with maybe 1/2" wiggle room all around. Where did you think it was hitting?

Joe and I read your build thread, and were scratching our heads trying to figure out why you had problems making it fit.. Maybe the tap shift tranny is a slightly different shape or something? It's close, but other than putting about a third of a steel pipe in the cradle for clearance on the oil filter it looks like it will fit without issue. How low is yours? I know Jeff's oil pan is about 1/4" above the imaginary plane across the bottom of the '88 cradle..



fieroguru MSG #18, 04-06-2010 12:07 PM
      It all depends on where the alternator goes. If you mount it above the axle (like Rickady88GT, blkcofy & fieroaddiction), the belt drive goes much further to the rear where the passenger frame rail angles in and it will not fit without a slight cut to the passenger frame rail. Notching the driver side of the cradle to shift the engine over could make the needed clearance to avoid the frame notch on the passenger side.

WCF flips the alternator and runs it cantilevered over the old battery location and probably does not need any notching for alternator clearance.

The LS4 waterpump is a space hog on the front side of the engine and makes it challanging to fit both the AC and Alternator up front and down low.


infinitewill MSG #19, 04-06-2010 12:56 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Fiero nuts....

Another LS4 build has begun... This is a LS4 with tranny and all electronics from a 2007 GP GXP with 25k acquired from Eric at Morad Motors... It is going into my 1986GT seen here...





I love the look of this two-tone paint scheme. It really fits the car nicely.

\/\/


KurtAKX MSG #20, 04-06-2010 05:42 PM
      Is the internal fan in the alternator "directional"...might be worth considering.

When you mount the alternator facing the other direction, it will spin the other direction as well.

[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 04-06-2010).]

Isolde MSG #21, 04-06-2010 07:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

Is the internal fan in the alternator "directional"...might be worth considering.

When you mount the alternator facing the other direction, it will spin the other direction as well.



Wouldn't the diodes automatically compensate for that?


fieroguru MSG #22, 04-06-2010 09:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

Is the internal fan in the alternator "directional"...might be worth considering.

When you mount the alternator facing the other direction, it will spin the other direction as well.



It has been done many, many times with the Vette superchargers so I am sure a workable solution exists.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #23, 04-06-2010 09:48 PM
      Hi guys, thanks for all the feedback... This is really good input...

Infinitewill, thank you for the comments on the paint scheme... right now it is about a "9 footer" job as I haven't cut and buffed it yet... I had a real run-in with Maaco over it as I paid for the "super supreme grand poobah ambassador "happy ending" godlike paint job" and got the $700 version... after three trips back and 4 weeks in their shop they got the coverage right but I am not done with it by a long shot.... Needs to be cut and buffed and waxed out... I will do that after we finish the swap.... (note to self.... do swap first... then paint job...duhhhh) At least it is high quality paint and it has a lot of coats on it... They were also good to me when I went back and said... uhh, excuse me... but this won't do... So far I have fixed all of the remaining atrocities myself.... But, I like the scheme ~ as odd as it may be ~ the scheme came to me when I owned my 84 or 86 back in the eighties.... can't remember which but the thought stuck with me... Or maybe I was flashing back to Woodstock... none the less.... I like it...

Rick, thanks for the comments.... I am sold on the external alternator mount and it eliminates the frame cutting... Joe is a great fabricator and from what I saw on Sunday he has it dialed in... I really appreciate your input though as you have been down this road and have an awesome car!

FieroGuru, KurtAKX and Isolde... Thanks for discussing the Alternator ideas.... I hate to admit but at 4:14 am yesterday on the way to the the "salt mine" I was actually thinking about the mechanical and electrical scenario on alternator mounting.... Please keep sharing as the forums input is appreciated..

OK... well now, I am off to try to figure out how to paint the engine cover to match the powder coating and engine compartment scheme of Black and Silver and red.... Maybe I should post a pic of the cover and have some guys photoshop their ideas!!

Aaron.... sorry I missed you on Saturday!!! I was holding a "recording studio" yard sale to help put out the "check wallet light"

Till later.... Jeff



Isolde MSG #24, 04-06-2010 11:56 PM
      Thanks for noticing and commenting on each person's efforts to be helpful. It makes people feel good to be appreciated. That it's obviously your character to do so, I automatically like you, LSx aside, though the LSx is the reason I clicked on your thread in the first place. I'm doing it too.

Tony Kania MSG #25, 04-07-2010 12:30 PM
      Just caught this. My computer decided to take a dump last week. Anyway, what a car! This is one great 86, and Jeff is really a great guy. ( I don't know how your Wife lives with you though? ) FieroKing really has his shat together when it comes to swaps. You are in good hands Dogcreek.

Post up some more pics. The paint scheme is really cool. The view of Dogcreek's Fiero is awesome from my rearview mirror. But after the swap, I am afraid that his rearview mirror will be filled with the smile of a guy in his 87 GT.



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #26, 04-08-2010 10:41 PM
      Yeah Tony... I can't figure the wife deal out either!! LOL Anyway.. hoping for the weekend!!! Get doing something again. Guys thanks again for all the advice... I think Joe has got the alternator plan all dialed in... Welds were on the agenda this week... Next... Spindles and and axle alignment... Then powder coaters... Then.........

Isolde, you doing this swap too? That is cool... Do you have a build thread going? If not, how it is going overall.. get started yet?

We're havin'' fun now!!

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-18-2012).]

Isolde MSG #27, 04-08-2010 11:01 PM
      My progress is slower than frozen molasses, my build is now in several threads, all of which are on the other forum. I started with an LM7 truck 5.3, then I got an LS4, then MAST Motorsports announced their new heads, so I sold the LS4. Now I'm proceeding with the LM7, because the LM7 block is more like the LS3 block, externally. And I'll need the big bore LS3 block to use the MAST heads. I decided I'd rather give up the midrange torque of a twin turbo LS4, to save weight and improve predictability. I don't want the turbos to spool up just as I'm coming out of a bumpy corner, you know? That could spin me off into the trees.
So yes, I'm currently doing a 5.3L Fiero.I'm using the F40 but not using anything from Archie on this one. I found the '00 Z28 exhaust manifolds are an excellent fit, I have pics if you're interested.


FieroMonkey (piccolo@cox.net) MSG #28, 04-08-2010 11:42 PM
      Looking forward to seeing this one finished.



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #29, 04-09-2010 08:55 PM
      Isolde,

Excellent... I am interested in pics for sure!! Love to see what you are doing... I have the benefit of Joe, (Fieroking) my club member friends, the excellent builds I have seen here (Like Ricks) and one more source of knowledge would really help!! If you could post them or PM them I would be grateful...

Michael, hope all is well.... I got your PM and man I got chills reading it... I will answer tonight or tomorrow but either way it is a deal!!

Looking forward to this wekend... Been a 65 hour week at the grind and I am ready to do some car stuff!!

Best to all, Jeff


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #30, 04-09-2010 08:56 PM
      BTW, Michael... That car of yours looks so nice!!! Love the look and the stance... Just looks awesome!

Jeff


Isolde MSG #31, 04-09-2010 10:36 PM
      Okay, here are the pics. 7 of them. These exhaust manifolds are from an '00 Z28, I used the Z28 driver side on the Fiero front side, and the Z28 passenger side on the Fiero rear side. Idk if it'll clear so well if you use an automatic, but these pics should show the excellent fit with the F40. Here goes:


Isolde MSG #32, 04-09-2010 10:39 PM
      For that first pic, tilt your head over onto your right shoulder.


Isolde MSG #33, 04-09-2010 10:40 PM
     

Isolde MSG #34, 04-09-2010 10:42 PM
     

Isolde MSG #35, 04-09-2010 10:43 PM
     

Isolde MSG #36, 04-09-2010 10:45 PM
     

Isolde MSG #37, 04-09-2010 10:47 PM
     

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #38, 04-09-2010 10:49 PM
      Wow... That is a nice and clean block!... Do you have a shot of the exhaust route or drawing you plan on using? We are planning to try to do the muffler collection at the rear without doing too much trunk cutting !! LOL

I should have some more pics tomorrow... Also, I am looking for a good sounding exhaust... minus cat of course as the old girl drops off smog tests this year,, Flowmaster is out.. bad experience and fellow Fiero guys experience as well... Looking for a warm, vette like sound... smooth but aggressive... Ideas anyone....? A real full note but not raspy sound on any end..

I know... I ask a lot of questions.... PS... I really like Ricks video...and a sound something like his maybe a note lower?

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-09-2010).]

Isolde MSG #39, 04-09-2010 10:58 PM
      I'm going to go with custom headers, these manifolds are only good to 400 rwhp, and I want more. I was reading on www.ls1tech.com, someone had an LS1, with LS6 heads and intake manifold, and these exhaust manifolds, in a '32 Ford. With a manual trans. They ordered a custom 218/230 cam, and made 400 rwhp. You'd have less with an automatic, but your Ls4 block already has the correct heads to do that, and it can be bored to 5.7L safely.
If I was keeping these manifolds, I'd put a bend on the front side, to put a cat in front of the cradle's cross-beam, then the exhaust could pass under that hump in the cradle, and under the "front" of the oil pan. Speaking of which, I'm going with an '05 Corvette oil pan. If you plan on road racing or autocrossing, it's better at controlling oil in all 4 directions than the LS4 pan. I can get you the GM part number if you want to buy a new one.
Anyway, if there's anything else I can help you with, just name it.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #40, 04-09-2010 11:25 PM
      Oh yes... and by the Paul... you bring your car again to NW Fierofest and the competition will be awful stiff... yours is one the nicest cars I have ever seen... and... I don't want to park next to you this year!! LOL... Just kidding of course... Hope to see you there... we had a ball last year!

Jeff


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #41, 04-10-2010 02:51 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Wow... That is a nice and clean block!... Do you have a shot of the exhaust route or drawing you plan on using? We are planning to try to do the muffler collection at the rear without doing too much trunk cutting !! LOL

I should have some more pics tomorrow... Also, I am looking for a good sounding exhaust... minus cat of course as the old girl drops off smog tests this year,, Flowmaster is out.. bad experience and fellow Fiero guys experience as well... Looking for a warm, vette like sound... smooth but aggressive... Ideas anyone....? A real full note but not raspy sound on any end..

I know... I ask a lot of questions.... PS... I really like Ricks video...and a sound something like his maybe a note lower?

Jeff



Thanks. My LS4 exhaust is made up of 3" exhaust dougnuts for the tight turns and 2.5 in the T after the cat then into 2.5 pipe. The cat is 3" in and out and the tips are C6 Vette SS resonater type. I have no mufler and the PCM has a stock tune with no codes for the "free flowing" exhaust. And I can hear the radio with my windows down at any speed. I am REALLLLY pleased with the exhaust on this one. I have no trunk cutting done but I did use a hammer to dent/clearance for the two flanges. I used two stock Fiero trunk heat sheilds stacked on each other between the cat and trunk and I have some aluminum backed fiberglass under the trunk carpet and I header wrapped the entire exhaust system from heads to tips ( I took off the LS4 heat shields first then put them back on after I wrapped the pipes so they look stock). I can stuff two or three days worth of stuff in the trunk for my wife and I without and trouble. I dont see any need to cut the trunk and it sounds fine with a cat in place of the muffler.



F355spider (nixon@itexas.net) MSG #42, 04-10-2010 07:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

So yes, I'm currently doing a 5.3L Fiero.I'm using the F40 but not using anything from Archie on this one. I found the '00 Z28 exhaust manifolds are an excellent fit, I have pics if you're interested.


I am


Isolde MSG #43, 04-10-2010 09:25 PM
      Then see the bottom third of page 1 of this thread. I posted 7 pics there, by invitation of the OP. Cheers

JPH87 (jphofeldt@msn.com) MSG #44, 04-10-2010 11:12 PM
      I didn't relize there were so many fiero nuts around here. Can you give me info on the fiero club. I will be watching this one close. I met Joe couple years ago great guy. I'm finally in full swing on my own 87. If theres anything I can help with drop me a line.

helmet1978 (helmet@raceme.cc) MSG #45, 04-11-2010 06:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Oh yes... and by the Paul... you bring your car again to NW Fierofest and the competition will be awful stiff... yours is one the nicest cars I have ever seen... and... I don't want to park next to you this year!! LOL... Just kidding of course... Hope to see you there... we had a ball last year!

Jeff


Well, provided I don't blow up or break anything major between now and August 14th I'll be there for sure Its kind of funny, up until about 3 years ago we had very few engine swaps at the show, this year I'm expecting 5+.

You guys keep up the great work up there!



F355spider (nixon@itexas.net) MSG #46, 04-11-2010 08:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

Then see the bottom third of page 1 of this thread. I posted 7 pics there, by invitation of the OP. Cheers


What about the starter? was looking but I do not see the fix. What about axles on F40 and auto?

[This message has been edited by F355spider (edited 04-11-2010).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #47, 04-11-2010 10:22 PM
      Hi everyone,

Had a very progressive weekend!! Joe and I worked both days and made a ton of headway... Here are some shots of progress... The big news is that the cradle, spindles and suspension pieces are all ready to go to the powder coaters on Monday... In fact, beside learning a great deal about fabrication Joe showed me a really cool trick to remove old suspension rubber....

Here it is... this may have been mentioned before and if so please forgive me but I want to share as it took 30 minutes to do ALL of the suspension components! Here is the trick....

Use a propane torch, get a big coffee can, a chair and a beer... Sit in the chair... prop part on the top edge of can... sip beer.... fire up the torch.... heat up the metal sleeves inside the rubber... don't start the rubber on fire... Keep heating for around 2 or 3 minutes and when you hear the sound of frying bacon.... push the sleeve down and out in the coffee can... Then mount the sleeveless piece in a vise and use a screwdriver to pry or drive the remaining rubber out of the component. Works like a charm and is easier on the neighborhood smell wise.... Great tip Joe!!

Anyway.... Here is the "cradle and engine mount" set up from yesterdays tack welding and fitting, to todays final test mount of the engine into the cradle. Joe ground off and cleaned up the cradle and it is ready to go! Engine sits perfect!


First mount ready to go....



One of the corners....



And another....



And the last with tack welds....



Here is the cradle back out from under doing so final inspection....



Measure 12 times.... weld into place once... LOL Not onto the case of course... onto the cradle....



Joe triple checked the axle line ups.... looking very nice... The axles came out of 6 or 7 GM cars... I can't remember but it was a hodgepodge of a number of cars... All I remember is Buick, Berretta, Fiero... Bonneville? But don't quote me.. They are a perfect fit and should last a long time... Look like new after Joe got new boots on and they were cleaned up....



OK... all the final measures done and the 88 cradle takes the final welds securing everything into place.... He has a great welding setup and knows how to use it!! Welds are strong and he did a bit of gussetting "here and there" to make sure we have no strength issues.. Excellent fabrication skills!! Thanks Joe!



Test fitting the final welds! Perfect fit! Has good clearance all the way. axles lined up and the oil filter has a little coved area and looks like stock location.



Hey Joe... that blue light looks cool...... ouch my eyes.....




Alot of progress made ....

And BTW, Isolde, thanks for the pics.... After today I can see the difference between those and what I have stock.... Rick, We are following your lead on the exhaust... Cat only with minimal trunk invasion.....I hope mine sounds as good!! Loved the test drive video sound... Sweet! Hope to have the 2.8 out next weekend.....

Oh, and "JPH87," Joe does remember you and your generosity by giving him a ride... I will let you know when the next club event is... We have a great group and do a lot of fun stuff when the weather is good!!

Thanks for all the comments and tips!!... More updates this week!

Jeff



Isolde MSG #48, 04-11-2010 11:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by F355spider:


What about the starter? was looking but I do not see the fix. What about axles on F40 and auto?



Those pics were from before I started thinking about the starter. I have no helpful pics yet. AV8Fiero started a thread in tech discussion, on LS4 / F40, I've made no progress recently that isn't in that thread. Axles for F40 trans are covered in Joseph Upson's F40 thread, and in Fieroguru's SBC / F40 thread, both also in tech discussion.
If you're doing an LS4 with auto, see the build thread of blckcfy's car for axle info.


Tony Kania MSG #49, 04-12-2010 12:21 PM
      You are definately on your way there Jeff. I hear that Aaron is making a bit of progress also. This will be one of the greatest fiero seasons ever! We will need to gather all the Inland Northwest Fieros, and take a cruise through some mountain roads. That would be an almost news worthy sight here in the Spokane/CDA region.

Dogcreek.... I call BS on the pic of you Joe welding in the garage.
1) I can see a garage floor.
2) There are no Fieros in aforementioned garage.
3) I do not see a stack of motors and transmissions anywhere.
4) There are no doggies wandering around joyed to the core to see the humans.
5) I also do not see Joe's beautiful Wife offering up sandwiches and cookies.

So you see, I believe that these photos are doctored up by a professional that truely knows what they are doing.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #50, 04-12-2010 10:15 PM
      Yo Tony!!! (love saying that!) In my best Jersey accent... or Detroit? not sure what it is!! LOL

Yeah... Joe has the place looking good doesn't he? We did a pickup after we finished on Sunday and are ready for the car.. The suspension and cradle is off to the powder coaters so it won't be long now.. I know you have a lot going on but if interested, we will be having a pulling party this weekend.. Interested?

Did see Anne and she is doing great... This is going to be a great season!!! Talk to you soon!

Jeff


MstangsBware (stephen_p38@yahoo.com) MSG #51, 04-12-2010 11:40 PM
      Looking good.....Going to starrt back on my LS4 swap this year....With moe getting swapped it should get easier for others.

TurboTec MSG #52, 04-14-2010 02:20 PM
      Hey Jeff, cool paint and excellent choice in motors. LOL I will defiantly be following your thread and I liked your Idea of a forum for LS4 Fiero's...

On another note, have you figured out how your going to mount the alternator? I would like to rotate mine running reverse like this one but so far this picture is the only info I can find.

Frank

[This message has been edited by TurboTec (edited 04-14-2010).]

KurtAKX MSG #53, 04-14-2010 06:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:
.... He has a great welding setup and knows how to use it!! Welds are strong and he did a bit of gussetting "here and there" to make sure we have no strength issues.. Excellent fabrication skills!! Thanks Joe!

Jeff


Looks like flux core?


F355spider (nixon@itexas.net) MSG #54, 04-14-2010 08:56 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:


Those pics were from before I started thinking about the starter. I have no helpful pics yet. AV8Fiero started a thread in tech discussion, on LS4 / F40, I've made no progress recently that isn't in that thread. Axles for F40 trans are covered in Joseph Upson's F40 thread, and in Fieroguru's SBC / F40 thread, both also in tech discussion.
If you're doing an LS4 with auto, see the build thread of blckcfy's car for axle info.

Thanks, I will look at those threads, in most build threads the most important things about the swaps are always left out.

[This message has been edited by F355spider (edited 04-14-2010).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #55, 04-14-2010 11:39 PM
      Thanks TurboTec.... We are doing the alt mount exactly like in the picture... Chris at WCF has been a great resource and talked to Joe about it and it seems to me to be the best place to put it. We are doing a battery box upfront and my wife decided for me that we are doing the Power steering upgrade... (more to come on that... lots of juicy details!!)

Kurt... I will have to ask Joe about the flux core... but you are probably right... looks to me like one lead out of the wire feeder.... Flux core? Perhaps... Joe can pipe in or I will ask... LOL i know zilch about welding stuff... except not to look at it.... "pretty colors equal burned eyes"

F355.... You are asking some great questions for the manual crowd... Thanks!

This weekend? Out comes the 2.8... sold to my buddy Andy.... going into an S-10... with a butt load of rebuild and induction stuff... We will have a tranny and 86 cradle up for grabs... cheap

Goodnight all.... Jeff


Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #56, 04-15-2010 02:04 AM
      Yes my welder is using flux core wire (haven't got a gas setup yet). Cradle and suspension are at the powder coater's.

The fun continues

Joe Sokol



F355spider (nixon@itexas.net) MSG #57, 04-15-2010 12:15 PM
      I have a new F40 but really leaning to going Auto with a 5.3 because of Starter. But I also notice you left out the axle part of the swap. Just saying in a swap thread the wiring, ecm, mounts, hardware and axles are the most people need to know. I just notice that most build threads just skip over them. I am enjoying all the LS4 threads this swap has a lot of potential. I hope one day I can do this swap in my car.

Isolde MSG #58, 04-15-2010 01:10 PM
      I haven't gotten my axles yet, but I'm just gonna spend the $900 for custom length Cobalt SS upgrade replacement axles from DriveShaftShop. That price gets their stage 2, which they rate at 400 HP. Those don't re-use any GM pieces, every piece is upgraded. They can also do stage 4, rated at 800 HP, but the F40 is rated for 300 ft-lbs, so I'm gonna try stage 2.
The starter is a little problem, sure, but it's better than having the auto eat another 9% of the engine's output. Plus the F40 is lighter, which also helps handling. And consider that if you divide sixth gear by first gear, you get a better number than if you divide the 4T65E-HD's 4th by it's first.
In the 65E-HD's favor, it can be geared taller for lower rpm on the interstate. With the F40, you're currently locked into 3.546 (final) times 0.623 (sixth) as the tallest cruise ratio available.


TurboTec MSG #59, 04-15-2010 03:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Thanks TurboTec.... We are doing the alt mount exactly like in the picture... Chris at WCF has been a great resource and talked to Joe about it and it seems to me to be the best place to put it. We are doing a battery box upfront and my wife decided for me that we are doing the Power steering upgrade... (more to come on that... lots of juicy details!!)


Very cool, just make sure you post pictures of how you mated the alternator, and please elaborate further on the other details... LOL

Frank


dobey MSG #60, 04-15-2010 04:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:
In the 65E-HD's favor, it can be geared taller for lower rpm on the interstate. With the F40, you're currently locked into 3.546 (final) times 0.623 (sixth) as the tallest cruise ratio available.


Unless you got the newer version, then 6th gear is 0.71 (about the same as the Getrag 5th). But it can still be re-geared if you really want to. MT2 is 0.62 and MU9 is 0.71.


Nebiros88 MSG #61, 04-15-2010 10:22 PM
      Progress so far looks great, keep up the good work.

I'm going to throw this out there for all the LS4 swappers, you guys, Isolde, Turbotec, and anyone else... I'm not sure what resources you guys have for your electrical info. I have full access to all the GM wiring schematics via GM Service information - being a tech has its perks. Anyways if you guys need any schematics just shoot me a PM



Tony Kania MSG #62, 04-15-2010 10:32 PM
      Really cool to see all chiming in to help.

I will give you a call tomorrow Dogcreek. I may be in for a little engine pulling. I have to hit Aaron up first. He had asked me something the other day, and I just can't remember what it was pertaining to? Is your car already at Joe's?

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 04-15-2010).]

Isolde MSG #63, 04-16-2010 12:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Nebiros88:

Progress so far looks great, keep up the good work.

I'm going to throw this out there for all the LS4 swappers, you guys, Isolde, Turbotec, and anyone else... I'm not sure what resources you guys have for your electrical info. I have full access to all the GM wiring schematics via GM Service information - being a tech has its perks. Anyways if you guys need any schematics just shoot me a PM


I hope this isn't hijacking, but I think the answer might be of interest to many. Wiring is necessary, but can you offer any help, even if it isn't free, with getting the VATS disabled in these junkyard ECMs we're getting for our 5.3s? Not change anything else, just that one thing. From there we can calibrate the speedometer or adjust for a CAI with a Diablosport Predator, or drive the car to a local chassis dyno with LS2Edit (for LS4 guys) or similar. Because at present, it seems I either buy into LS1Edit myself, and jump in over my head, or send it out for a mail order tune. Not cool. And if you can help, would it be possible to, say, put an '01 LS6 / T56 tune into an engine computer from, say, an '01 truck LM7 / 4L60E?


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #64, 04-16-2010 12:38 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:


I hope this isn't hijacking, but I think the answer might be of interest to many. Wiring is necessary, but can you offer any help, even if it isn't free, with getting the VATS disabled in these junkyard ECMs we're getting for our 5.3s? Not change anything else, just that one thing. From there we can calibrate the speedometer or adjust for a CAI with a Diablosport Predator, or drive the car to a local chassis dyno with LS2Edit (for LS4 guys) or similar. Because at present, it seems I either buy into LS1Edit myself, and jump in over my head, or send it out for a mail order tune. Not cool. And if you can help, would it be possible to, say, put an '01 LS6 / T56 tune into an engine computer from, say, an '01 truck LM7 / 4L60E?


Sorry I cant offer much help in this matter, but it is not that easy with the LS4. The LS4 has passkey + with a BCM and TCM. So the majority of "swappers" would benefit most by a reflash that would delete them all and still function correctly with a manual. I don't know all the ins and outs but I do know it ain't easy.



Isolde MSG #65, 04-16-2010 08:10 AM
      The BCM and TCM should both be delete-able if going with the F40 or a 282, or even an F23. We don't need a computer that can roll down our power windows. Trash the BCM on principle alone. The LS4 engine can be run by an '05.5-up LS2 program. Change the reluctor wheel on the crank, from the stock 58x to the older 24x, and it can be run by any LS1 program.

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 04-16-2010).]

Nebiros88 MSG #66, 04-16-2010 08:29 AM
      Unfortunately, on GM TIS2 Web (programming software) we are unable to go in and delete sections of software. We can program modules based on RPO options but not select/deselect anything included in the factory programming.

I wish I could be more help on the VTD, unfortunately the only options I see is with aftermarket tuning software, or to actually include the VTD system in the vehicle.


dobey MSG #67, 04-16-2010 08:42 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Nebiros88:
I wish I could be more help on the VTD, unfortunately the only options I see is with aftermarket tuning software, or to actually include the VTD system in the vehicle.


Another option to "deleting" the PK+3 system, is to remove the connection to the antenna in the ignition switch, and insert a small circuit which always sends the correct value to the computer. Though I think in most if not all PK3 cars, the key handling is done in the BCM and not the ECM. So you'd still need the BCM to process the signal and then tell the ECM to start. There's a little more info in Darth's LS4/TapShift swap thread.


Isolde MSG #68, 04-16-2010 12:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Nebiros88:

Unfortunately, on GM TIS2 Web (programming software) we are unable to go in and delete sections of software. We can program modules based on RPO options but not select/deselect anything included in the factory programming.

I wish I could be more help on the VTD, unfortunately the only options I see is with aftermarket tuning software, or to actually include the VTD system in the vehicle.


So you could put the 'vette M/T program in a truck A/T ECM, but it includes the VATS? That's still a HUGE step in the right direction if you can do that. How much $ would you have to charge us for that, if we shipped our ECMs to you?

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 04-16-2010).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #69, 04-16-2010 08:47 PM
      Hi Tony, Nope... Change o' plans...we are going to pull next weekend... Joe is working on the 3.4 so I may go over and help on that... Give me a ring... We gotta do something Fiero oriented this weekend!! She is still here at the barn 100% operational.....

Can't wait to see your car with all the cool TLG stuff...

Isolde.... No worries about a hijack!! It is all good... I learn something from every post here!! Thank you! LS4 fiends of the world will unite here!!!

Jeff



Nebiros88 MSG #70, 04-16-2010 09:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:


So you could put the 'vette M/T program in a truck A/T ECM, but it includes the VATS? That's still a HUGE step in the right direction if you can do that. How much $ would you have to charge us for that, if we shipped our ECMs to you?



There are a couple of problems with that. Main problem with that, not all ECMs are created equal... Different ECMs are internally built different per application. Do you have GM part # off your truck A/T ECM? On Monday I will check with our parts department if those part numbers are cross compatible. Second problem with that... ECM/BCM/TCM/VTD/etc etc etc all vehicle modules are programmed in vehicle through the OBD2 DLC - modules can't be programmed externally. In order to program any modules for people I would have to find the vehicle capable of the programming you want, remove the factory ECM, install another ECM, program it and reverse. While that’s no big deal to me, we don't always have a vette, a manual vette for that matter, and it would be something I would have to do after hours because the bosses would frown on pulling vehicles to do programming for reasons other than repair.

So let’s see if the part numbers are compatible, and we'll try and work out other details.


Isolde MSG #71, 04-16-2010 10:38 PM
      I'll PM you my PCM code. Then if anything between us seems relevant to this thread, I can move it back from PMs to the thread. Thank you for explaining how it works, that seems like it could be helpful to everyone.

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #72, 04-20-2010 10:59 PM
      Ok... progress being made....

Poly and rear bearings here Thursday... Powder coating back by Friday I hope (pics) Andy coming to get the 2.8 on Saturday (equals a new radiator) Joe got the paddle shifter switches today (woo hoo)

So, Tony or anybody interested, we will be yanking the 2.8 Saturday (Tony I will call you back, I promise)

Now (me).... take deep breaths... It is all coming together!

Jeff


thedrue MSG #73, 04-20-2010 11:04 PM
      Damn, this looks really good! I an only a couple hours away in Walla Walla going to school... Might have to get up there and take a look.

Keep up the good work.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #74, 04-22-2010 11:25 PM
      Thanks Drue... you are welcome anytime!!! You going to FieroFest in Richland this year? It is a great time as well as a place to see some great cars!!

Jeff


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #75, 04-25-2010 07:43 PM
      Gents,

OK... it was a long week... but finally Saturday came... Started at about 10:15 am or so... Had a great drive from Spokane to CDA to Joe's. The car ran like a champ... Had my last "second thoughts" a few minutes from Joe's and knew this was the right thing.. Almost felt bad for my car as the "surgery" she was to undergo was major by any stretch... The LS4 and tranny, Tap shifters, new suspension and brakes, power steering conversion and much more....

A big thanks to Chris at WCF for spending time talking to Joe about some of the challenges we need to overcome.. But the plans are now complete and off we go.. I Can't thank Joe Sokol enough (Fieroking)... great mechanic, welder, fabricator and automotive wiring guru... And an all-around nice guy! He is a true champion for Fiero owners everywhere.

Any way... here is the sequence of events.. Looks bad... but not at all.. just really dirty! I was amazed how much dirt and junk was behind the wheels in the rear...

Up she goes.... Onto jack stands for strut removal etc....



My son removing the inner wheel well shields...



OK... getting the last stuff disconnected...



Cruise, throttle cable, tranny cables and a bunch of other stuff disconnected..



Nary a spot of rust on the frame or in the trunk... that is always a relief!



Sliding the dolly under... and last minute checks to make sure everything is loose..



Dolly has the engine on it... The cradle bolts cam out like a dream... Having a "no rust" car really helped here...



Almost there... Couple more cranks on the engine hoist handle...



Sliding the dolly out with only an inch or so to spare...



And she is out! Next step... get the engine of the tranny/cradle as the guy who bought her is coming to get her...


So, the next week holds a lot of progress... The cradle and suspension stuff back from the powder coater. Got the poly kit and bearings from The Fiero Store here and ready to go.. Joe has a lot of stuff he plans to do to the engine compartment and firewall... Should have some nice update pics next Saturday.

Till next weekend, Jeff



Isolde MSG #76, 04-25-2010 10:03 PM
      so far so good!

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #77, 04-26-2010 09:21 PM
      Isolde... yep so far so good!

Anyone in the Eastern WA/N Idaho area want a good tranny and good cradle let Joe know... Also a nearly brand new alternator..(about 1000 miles on it) He may have those up for sale! Engine is gone..... Also a pair of crack free exh manifolds.... PM Fieroking.....

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-26-2010).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #78, 05-02-2010 04:05 PM
      OK,

Another week of progress... Engine and rear suspension back from the powder coater! Wow did it turn out nice...

No engine swap thread can get by without one of these... the "engine bay money shot"



So, last week, old engine and cradle out... this week, Engine on the cradle, mounted, and test fit...Also cleaned up the battery area as it actually did have nastiness underneath.. In fact one hole burned/rusted clear through. It was shame to see as otherwise not a rusty spot on the car anywhere to speak of.. Coil over top mounts set up etc.... He made a lot of progress this week.. Here is a pic of the engine mounted on the newly powder coated cradle! Woo Hoo



So... after everything was ready to go Joe did a test fit...... Here are a few shots... (actually a little out of sequence... for editorial purposes)

Went right in...



Driver side view



Passenger side view



Joe mocked up the locations for the coolant overflow, the aircleaner will remain in the stock location... the intake hose is just a mockup... he mapped out Where the ECM and TCM will go... and a lot of other things.. In fact, today Joe got a good idea where everything will go as far as the lines for AC, powersteering, coolant hoses etc.....

So once that was done, we slid it back out... easier said than done as the engine is wider front to back and it is a tight fit between the roller
dolly we have it on and the legs of the engine lift.. It was kinda like a "heavy weight engine wrestling cage match smackdown." We won but it was not
going to come out as easily as it went in. So, now the hard part begins... Here is Joe contemplating the vast array of wires and plugs that come out of the factory hareness using a factory LS4 wiring diagram.

Next week.... well, we have stuff on the way for the alternator mount from WCF and need to relocate the coolant filler pipe from the factory location to the rear. Also power
steering stuff may be here soon ... but that will come later in the build...

Love it when a plan starts to come together!! Jeff (signing out from "Fieroking's" garage...)

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-05-2012).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #79, 05-06-2010 08:50 PM
      Woo Hoo! Got the Alt Mount from WCF.... Can't wait to see it! Lot's of pics on that coming Saturday! (sort of a bump)

Jeff


Tony Kania MSG #80, 05-09-2010 12:00 PM
      This engine couldn't possibly be put into a better owner's Fiero! Just a bump to keep up interest. Hopefully see you next weekend.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #81, 05-09-2010 04:33 PM
      Pics, or all you did this weekend was BS and stare at your motor...

Oh yeah, and I OWN PAGE 3!

Even I worked on my car this weekend, removed the rest of the crapola in the engine bay, and played with the shifter assembly..


Isolde MSG #82, 05-10-2010 02:04 PM
      Real car guys can't stare at an engine for more than 10 seconds without grabbing either a wrench or a pen and notepad.

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 05-10-2010).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #83, 05-10-2010 03:22 PM
      I know they were painting the engine bay this weekend, maybe they were overcome by beer and fumes..

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #84, 05-10-2010 09:34 PM
      Greeting from the Siberia of North America! Hi Isolde, Tony and Aaron... you guys crack me up!

Mother Day Weekend... ah yes... keep Wife happy, keep Mom happy, Keep Sister happy and all should be well... And indeed it was! A little slow to post
due to family obligations but Saturday did yield some results.. Including some pics of the much anticipated WCF reverse alternator mount prototype!
But first, nothing like a car show to get things going bright and early...

Spokane Valley Car Show

Tony Kania had his beautiful 87 there, complete with a lot of new stuff from TLG... If you haven't checked out their stuff you need to. Oslo couldn't
have picked a nicer car to demo with! He had the TLG flyers there and displayed the upgrades nicely. Here is a shot of the 3.1 Tony has in his car.
Clean enough to eat off of or have surgery on... whichever you choose.. This bay is CLEAN! and I mean CLEAN!



A side shot.... Looking good Tony! There was a lot of nice rides there but I guess I am partial... This was certainly one of the sweetest!! Tony's
neighbor has his Ferrari there too. Right next to the GT. I will let Tony pipe in with his thoughts.. Amazing how close the two are from a style and
mechanical layout perspective...



Reverse Alternator Mount from WCF!

OK, we got the prototype mount and for the reverse alternator and Joe had it mounted up. It is extremely well built and just needs a little minor tweeking. The quality is top-notch
of course and it looks to be very strong... Here is a "end view" so you can see the quality... Very heavy duty and really will do the job nicely. Thanks again Chris at WCF!! Very cool!!



Progress Report

OK, I finished the last cleaning of the engine bay and after cleaning up went over the entire bay and trunk with lacqer thinner to get oil or residue
off. Then, back in the bay for painting with "satin" black POR15. Amazing stuff!! The Satin finish dries to an almost identical factory sheen with no
gloss. The paint flows out and lays down nice despite my feeble brush painting skills. Look really good!! Still "wet" in this pic...

While I was painting etc... Joe modded the dipstick tube so it can be reached and accessed in its tight position. Joe (Fieroking) knows what he doing with a welder and cutting
wheel. Looks like factory!

The night before (Friday) I took a Dremel, Rum and hand polish to the throttle body. Really pleased with how it turned out. I just cleaned the body on
most of it and then polished the back actuator cover (think that is what it is called) The rum was used to lubricate my joints and keep my Dremel hand
steady! No gummy bears were consumed with the Rum... I promise...



After that was done, I pulled the Valve covers and knocked of the casting burrs and painted bright silver with high temp paint. They really look a lot
better than the original bare aluminum finish ~ Though you won't be able to see much of them due to the engine cover. In the pics above you can also
see how Joe is making progress on the wiring layout



All in all a good weekend even if it was cut short by the festivities... Joe is doing more harness and planning work and getting ready to go on the
cool mods we have for the engine bay!

Thanks for watching my build...

Aaron.... we keep missing each other. Glad to hear you are making headway on the 3800 build (Check out Aarons build here:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/101909.html)

Till next weekend!

Jeff



Tony Kania MSG #85, 05-10-2010 10:10 PM
      Once again, thanks for the kind words. We are truely blessed here in the "Siberia of North America."

Also, thanks for the pics. I am going to start a thread about the similarities of my neighbor's Ferrari to the Fiero. It will blow you away on just how much the Fiero looks like his Ferrari. By the way, she is a 1975 Ferrari Dino. One of 73. One of 8 in America. 42,000 miles. The only Bertone styled Ferrari. The first Ferrari with a true all Ferrari designed engine.

Anyhow, I will hit you up in a day or two. I want to come put in some work this weekend with you guys.

Tony


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #86, 05-11-2010 02:08 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

While I was painting etc... Joe modded the dipstick tube so it can be reached and accessed in its tight position. Joe (Fieroking) knows what he doing with a welder and cutting
wheel. Looks like factory!





I would suggest putting an insulation around the dipstick tube, like a spark plug wire cover. That manifold will get hot enough to bake oil on the walls of the tube that could constantly flake off into the sump. You could even use a single layer of header wrap? The stock dip stick can even get hot enough to burn oil on it.

Looking good

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-11-2010).]

Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #87, 05-13-2010 01:55 AM
      Thanks for the input about the dip stick tube. I will put some insulation around it to protect it.

Joe Sokol



Danyel MSG #88, 05-13-2010 02:09 AM
      Awsome !!! completely AWSOME !!!!



Tony Kania MSG #89, 05-15-2010 09:11 PM
      Rickady....You are such a big help in Jeff's project.

I went to FieroKing's today to help out a little with the build. And I do mean a little. Pretty much just listened to Joe's wisdom.

I removed the hood, radiator, and the spare tire tub. Dogcreek has a really clean car. Just no rust, or grime to weld in the fasteners. The hood came off to make it easier to remove the radiator. The radiator came out to make way for a nice aluminum refridgerator to help keep this beast cool. And, with the plastic tub removed, it will make it easier (yeah, right? ) to install the power steering.

Joe plugged away at the wiring to mate the 5.3 to everything! Quite a task, but it is looking better than factory. Things are beginning to get tucked away into their final resting places.

Almost forgot, got poly greased, and installed into the 88 rear suspension pieces. Powder coating makes everything easier.

I should have taken some pics, but actually forgot to. I may show up for a bit tomorrow. I want Dogcreek to get his car back!



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #90, 05-16-2010 12:59 AM
      All I can say is INW Fiero club guys FLIPPIN ROCK!!!!! (substitute words as needed)

Thank You Tony!!! and of course Joe who is the "mastermind" on this project!!

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 05-16-2010).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #91, 05-16-2010 01:45 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:

Rickady....You are such a big help in Jeff's project.

I went to FieroKing's today to help out a little with the build. And I do mean a little. Pretty much just listened to Joe's wisdom.

I removed the hood, radiator, and the spare tire tub. Dogcreek has a really clean car. Just no rust, or grime to weld in the fasteners. The hood came off to make it easier to remove the radiator. The radiator came out to make way for a nice aluminum refridgerator to help keep this beast cool. And, with the plastic tub removed, it will make it easier (yeah, right? ) to install the power steering.

Joe plugged away at the wiring to mate the 5.3 to everything! Quite a task, but it is looking better than factory. Things are beginning to get tucked away into their final resting places.

Almost forgot, got poly greased, and installed into the 88 rear suspension pieces. Powder coating makes everything easier.

I should have taken some pics, but actually forgot to. I may show up for a bit tomorrow. I want Dogcreek to get his car back!



Thanks. I try to help when I can.

I put polly in my 88 and HIGHLY recommend installing grease zerks. West Coast Fiero provides the zerks and modifies the metal sleeves for the zerks. I even put them on the front poly sway bar bushings. The only bushings I could not use zerks on were the rear toe links. I would like to drill a VERY small hole thru the head of the bolt half way down the center line of the bolt and to the center of the sleeve to grease the bushings. But I don't have the right equipment to do it.



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #92, 05-17-2010 02:15 AM
      Gents and Ladies,

An incredible weekend of progress on the "PORVETT" LS4 swap... Joe made a lot of headway on his own this week as witnessed by the following update pics... And even more awesome is the support we got from INW Fiero guys... Tony, Aaron, Justin... you guys are the BEST! Tony "surgically" prepared the front bay for the many changes to come!! YO Tony!! YOU ROCK!

And as we progress.... a great picture of how deep Joe (Fieroking) gets into his builds!

And here... Fred Flintstone beware.... this is the 1 "Joe power" Fiero... Though the picture doesn't show it... his feet were really moving!!! LOL



My friend Andy at "Valentine Engineering" (MaverickTurbos.com) managed to bend the newly front mounted pipe to fit and Joe fabbed the angle, plate and gasket... removed the "soft plug" to mount the a new "front mounted filler neck"...it is a beauty!



Joe cut and capped the old filler neck and put in a "bleeder" to assist taking air out of the complex coolant system.... (Thanks again Rick!!)



OK... I worked on a few things...and as always learned a LOT... I cleaned, prepped and painted the axle shafts... they look pretty good over all... (they are made of parts from 7 different cars)



OK... before you get wound up... LOL... Here is MY choice of the firewall cover and mods... Joe is very cool and always say's "its your car," So.... I have chosen red powdercoated diamond plate as the firewall cover, over two coats of aluminized sound damper material.... Now don't judge... Until you have seen the whole "red, black, and silver" layout....



And now for our newest INW Fiero Member and 13 year Fiero owner and "bodywork" guy AND Pennock's member... Justin!! He is a WRENCH and knows his Fiero's well... Here he is removing the master cylinder and booster.... He is in good enough shape to go into the forward bay and with much finesse remove the MS and the booster! If I went in.... welll, can you say "defibrillater" or "Jaws of life?"



AND... Justin jumps all over the the removal of the throttle cable which entails removing the majority of the center console and skeleton... He found $5 bucks in change...add that to the $17 bucks I found in here earlier and I am up to $22 bucks!!! Wooo Hoo! I will buy an oil change...Almost!!




So Fiero Fiends.... That is it for the weekend..... We are like a snowbal now.... picking up speed and support from all of the great guys in the INW Fiero club and fellow LS4 builders... We really appreciate all the feedback and advice!


Till next weekend... Jeff



Isolde MSG #93, 05-17-2010 08:57 AM
      Look at them sexy axles!!!!!

Tony Kania MSG #94, 05-17-2010 01:02 PM
      Yes, it does seem as if we have some of the best Fiero folks up here in the Inland Northwest. Nice of the "new guy" Justin helping out. He, he, he,. It is always nice to add knowledge and experience to any situation, and Justin seems to have both, along with a great attitude.

The LS4 build is coming along nicely. I just want to see you get on the road. Same with Aaron. Throw me in coach, let's get this done! Where do you want me? I swear, I am nearly as excited as you to see your projects take off. A great year is ahead of us...

You know, if it weren't for the ladies in our lives, we would probably not be in the position that we are in when it involves the Fiero. So, a big thanks also goes out to all the Inland Northwest Fiero Club Ladies for the patience, and understanding that you show towards us when we get that crazy look in our eyes.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 05-17-2010).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #95, 05-18-2010 10:37 PM
      Hear ~ hear on the ladies..... Thanks Tony... What they put up with is amazing!! At least they know where we are !! LOL

JPH87 (jphofeldt@msn.com) MSG #96, 05-19-2010 01:38 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Hear ~ hear on the ladies..... Thanks Tony... What they put up with is amazing!! At least they know where we are !! LOL


This is why every guy should have a shop. She knows were your at and you are not paying rent on a bar stool LOL


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #97, 05-19-2010 11:50 PM
      heh heh.... Right you are Justin! Thanks again for all your capable help... For those interested, the fun will be at Joe's on Saturday starting around 10am.... I have a ton of interior stuff cooking including a way to fab the tap shift switches to the Grant wheel.... (Thanks for the input Rick!)

I'll bet Joe can keep all of us busy again!!! INW Fiero people ROCK!! Aaron...if you need any help on either day let us all know... I know you are making headway... I can come over Sunday if you like... I work cheap and as most say... "I am easy on the eyes" NOT ~NOT ~NOT

Jeff



ManMadeChickens (justinparcher@gmail.com) MSG #98, 05-20-2010 04:34 AM
      Wow, I'm really impressed with your progress so far! I'll be at NW Fiero Fest, so I'll hopefully be seeing this beauty finished there.

dobey MSG #99, 05-27-2010 03:21 PM
      Any news on the build? Any progress is progress.

Tony Kania MSG #100, 05-27-2010 05:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Any news on the build? Any progress is progress.


FieroKing is always working on the LS4! It is not the weekend yet, and Dogcreek really can't wait until it is done. I believe that with the help of the Inland Northwest fiero Club, Dogcreek and his beautiful wife will be blowing the doors off of my 87GT very shortly. (Maybe I should sabatoge the build when I show up to help next time? I really don't want my doors blown off! )

See you guys this weekend!


Isolde MSG #101, 05-27-2010 07:12 PM
      If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, then get a bigger cam :-)

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #102, 05-27-2010 09:10 PM
      Greetings all!

Well we have made some progress! I was just late in posting due to commitments every night this week. But both Saturday and Sunday yielded progress… So, here we go….

SATURDAY

Here Joe has the firewall cover laid out with ECM and TCM isolation stands. Isolating them protects the boxes from a condition that Joe described as a faulted ground. He used nice heavy duty isolator standoffs which also allow some air to circulate behind each unit; Pic’s don’t do them justice! They look real sharp… OK… so here she is mounted (sounded quite naughty… my apologies) looks great and custom fit.



A shot of the new fuse location and system, out of a Beretta? Joe will have to correct me… So that is it Saturday and the first ten minutes after getting there.



Truth be told, the night before (Friday) the bride and I were invited to a neighbors “house party.” I didn’t plan to stay until 1:30am, but we did. I didn’t plan to drink a bit and then dance to 70’s vinyl for three hours, but I did…. So I show up at Joe's the next morning and for the life of me I can’t get anything right.. I broke a thing or two and told Joe “you might as well send me home as I am useless.” Well he disagreed and gave me some tasks that even I couldn’t screw up… The rest of the day went well with me (with Joe’s help) getting the e-brake cable out, stripping the rest of the front bay and cleaning it up.

SUNDAY

So… I got the headlight assemblies out, disassembled, cleaned and painted them re-painted the surrounds, clean the stainless lamp retention rings and by golly I wasn’t as useless as I thought [note to self… you are 50, you can no longer party until O’dark-thirty in the morning…you have a Fiero to work on]



Once the bay was brushed, cleaned and degreased, Joe made the new front chassis ground… Very ingenious way to get a GOOD permanent ground…

And last but not least… the rear suspension is loosely mounted and man it looks really nice… Remember, my “theme” for the engine and suspension is red, black and silver so this should match what you can see of the firewall very nicely…



OK… so I guess better late than never! We had a great weekend on the car, and this week we celebrated a most beautiful and nice ladies American Citizenship (You know who you are Anne!!!), We got to see the “Fiero Gang” together for Pizza…and last but not least… I have sworn off dancing but I still like “Earth, Wind and Fire” LOL Ouch,, my dang feet hurt STILL!

Jeff




600racer (nametaken@bellsouth.net) MSG #103, 05-28-2010 09:38 AM
      Very nice. I was wondering 2 things. What does the LS4 engine, tranny, electricals typically cost from the salvage yard. Also I've seen several swaps where the cradle is cut and welded alot for mounts, clearance etc. Anyone thought of using the doner car cradle and welding the 4 Fiero mounting points to it?

Great work.


85LAMB (linck777@netzero.com) MSG #104, 05-28-2010 12:22 PM
      Awsome build !!!!

I can't believe I have not seen it before.

Marked as favorite


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #105, 05-28-2010 08:17 PM
      Hi 600racer,

I got the whole setup from Morad Motors who specialize in late model GM cars... http://stores.ebay.com/Morad-Parts-Company

They have some very tempting deals and thanks to Joe spotting this motor I was able to get a Pontiac motor for the swap. Not much, if any different from the other GM LS4's.. I think a couple of swaps on here came from the same place. They also have a lot of reasonably priced 3800's as you can see on their Ebay store. Mine was complete with the engine, tap shift tranny, ECM, TCM and complete wire harness. I see prices on LS4's ranging from $2200 to $3000 depending on miles. Mine had 25K on it and was right in the middle of the range pricewise...

As far as the cradle goes, we used an 88...reason being the usual 88 benefits.. I didn't want to use another cradle because of the fabrication that would be needed to make it fit and fit the suspension etc... I suppose one could do it though.... Joe placed the motor in a slightly different position "side to side" than some others. It required fabbing engine mounts and only making two small cradle box mods.. One for the oil filter (so it would be easy to get at) and one for the serpentine tensioner... These were boxed in nicely and look factory..

Thanks for the nice comments!

And to you as well 85Lamb.... Glad to make it to someone's favorites!! Please keep watching as i am committed to going all the way to completion in the thread... I am SO lucky to have Joe Sokol as a friend as well as the other INW Fiero guys who come over and help!! Like I said.. you guys fargin rock!

So, Isolde... what do you think of the axles mounted to the suspension? I think they look mighty sexy too! LOL More build pics coming this weekend!

Later guys.... Jeff


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #106, 05-28-2010 08:42 PM
      Fumble fingers

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-06-2012).]

600racer (nametaken@bellsouth.net) MSG #107, 05-30-2010 10:38 AM
      After I posted the cradle idea I realized the suspension could be a problem that would require some custom fabricating. Great Build so far!

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #108, 05-31-2010 01:55 AM
      Fiero Nuts….

Dateline Saturday… Memorial Day Weekend….

Great day on Saturday…. Joe had really made a lot of progress from last weekend. Tony Kania joined us and we made a lot of nice progress…. So…. Here we go!

Coil overs – These turned out GREAT! Love powder coating and am officially a convert!



Reverse light switch – Joe was reading the GXP wiring diagrams… got up and looked in our pile of “86” parts and then did a little work to convert the 86 reverse switch from the TH125 to perfectly fit the 4T65 and pabbed shift inverter plate… The “D” shaft was identical, we have room to move the linkage and the bottom plate to insure the reverse light work… Excellent!!



Oil pressure sender – I think Joe talked to Ryan on this but he pulled the manifold and tapped a perfect spot for the sender… Looks factory!



Fuel pressure regulator – Ain’t she pretty? Great spot for easy fuel line routing and adjustment…



She’s was red…. My "show case of shame" if you will… a non “panel off” paint job… But…



Now she’s not (sort of….) –or- “Does the carpet match the drapes…?” OK…bad analogy… LOL



Tony searching for quarters…. LOL… Love ya Tony! I found $17 the first time I pulled most of the interior out… My son Ben found $4 or $5 and Justin found another few bucks. Tony struck out but he got the interior and dash out!! Thanks Bro! You ROCK!!



AND… The steering wheel, cruise, lights and TAP SHIFT solution… 7 total miles on this column... Thanks to Joe and his “super sleuthing” ability at the local bone-yard… (PS, Rick… I think this may have solved the problem!)



So… Tomorrow may yield more change as I have been on the road since yesterday visiting relatives and going to one of the most beautiful cemeteries in Washington… In Yakima… Had a great visit with our Bro and Sis in laws and visited my wife’s mother’s grave. It was truly heartening to see so many American flags and flowers and families in one place… A proud moment today to remember our loved ones… Also had a beautiful drive over Blewitt Pass (twice) I think we need to do a Fiero cruise up there someday.

Jeff




Tony Kania MSG #109, 05-31-2010 10:54 AM
      Man, I am one ugly mother******!

Dogcreek, thanks for the wheel! Installed it yesterday (Almost lost a finger in the process!). I LOVE this "new" leather Grant wheel! Fat grips. Smooth looks.

The "new" wheel for your LS4 is pretty sweet also. Joe and I were equally impressed with the way it sizes up to the original Fiero column. Minimal amount of fab work required to retrofit it to the LS4 Fiero.

This build is really going quite well. There is a ton of work left to do, but I see a faint glimer of light peeping through the tunnel.


RONT4.9 (rrthoeny@gmail.com) MSG #110, 05-31-2010 02:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Hi Rick, good info... thank you... Got some pics of what Joe has made and they look great.. I will post them in a bit...

Well, we looked at some things and it looks like if I want to use the cruise I have to get the BCM... Right? Plus I think I need to get a factory GXP wheel and shifter if I want to keep all of that stock.. Anyone have a stock GP-GXP wheel and shift linkage setup...? The tranny is all setup for it and when I bought it I thought it have everything it would need... but no... not a major thing... just need to find the parts

Anyway more later... including todays pics..

Jeff


Jeff: I have the tap shift on mine (it's an 88 with ls4) and i didn't use the BCM. To use the tap shift, all i had to do was get the correct value resistors and wire to the TCU. I didn't want the steering wheel controls so i ran the wiring through a power window switch, that i mounted into a center console plate that i built. (got rid of the ash trays.) I also installed cruise control buttons in the console. I've been driving it for two years now and it's been great! It's a vary good swap for a Fiero and your going to love it.
RON
BTW: I would be happy to share any info or thoughts that i have on the swap.
GOOD LUCK!



RONT4.9 (rrthoeny@gmail.com) MSG #111, 05-31-2010 02:17 PM
      OOPS; I meant that i wired it to the ECU.

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #112, 05-31-2010 07:43 PM
      Hi Ron! yeah I figured that is what you meant!

Jeff


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #113, 05-31-2010 08:46 PM
      Desite the Holiday a lot of progress was made this weekend!

Here we go!

The inner mysteries of the LS4…Naked for all to behold… The “valve body" or valley cover with the DoD junk attached… How is that for a technical explanation of DoD?



And… the valley… clean as a whistle…



And another angle …



Ryan and Joe talked about the oil pressure sender set up… Ryan, I have been remiss in not thanking you. Joe has talked to you a lot and you have been very helpful… so thanks! We really appreciate it!



And up next... as a prior post pointed out we grabbed a stock column with Tap Shift in place… Like Ron4.9 stated it is a one wire setup using resistance values to send signal to the appropriate CU… Since I want cruise, and steering wheel tap shift, and after PM’ing with RickAddy… we decided to do this column swap… As you can see in the pics below, the stalks have the cruise, tilt, wiper control and lights… We won’t be adding anything to the “auto” light circuit… just “on/running/headlight”… We will use the one-wire for setup for cruise and shift…



And a view of the control layout…



Also, Tony and Joe pulled the old column and the rack to get ready for the new power steering one…

Till Next Saturday!!

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-06-2012).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #114, 06-01-2010 02:18 AM
      The new steering wheel and column is a bit longer between the rim of the wheel and the turn signal lever. So you will have to mount it deeper into the dash than it was in the GXP. If you don't the wheel will be closer to you than you like? Not because the steering column so much but the air bag steering wheel is "thicker". So be sure to mock it up with the seat installed and sit there for a minot as if you are driving so you know were to mount it. Mine is adjustable like the Fiero (slotted bolt holes) but is pushed all the way forward (closest to the dash).

I do LOVE the large outer rim of the wheel. It feels great.

You may need the Body control module to do some of the functions you want? That is a powerful little box.
But not all the controls go into the BCM.


As a side note, the Body control module has some cool stuff that some day you may want to use?
I have the Automatic lights in my swap and don't even use the headlight switch anymore. It is also linked to the key less entry and turns on the headlights and reverse lights at night when I pop the trunk. At first it was strange but I like it now. Also a little annoying was the auto lights. The headlights would pop up every time I started the car inside the garage. But they go down in about 30 seconds in the sunlight.
The theater lighting is really cool. Open the door or use the keyless fob and the interior lights "power up" and then fade away in about 30 seconds after closing the door. This is an adjustable feature in the D.I.C.

Man you guys work fast. I had my LS4 for about a year before I actually started the swap in earnest. It took me between 4-6 months.


Isolde MSG #115, 06-01-2010 06:33 AM
      You're right, Rick, they do work fast. It comes from having enough funds to make progress every weekend. I've been at it over a year and am only half done, because of short funding.

dobey MSG #116, 06-01-2010 10:30 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:
You're right, Rick, they do work fast. It comes from having enough funds to make progress every weekend. I've been at it over a year and am only half done, because of short funding.


Only ONE year? :P

I've been at this since '99, to get to *my* Fiero, and am at the 3rd car in the process. Funds shortages and living in apartments and big cities have generally made things more difficult. But things are finally starting to come along, and I should actually have an LS4 in my grasp soon, to mate up to this shiny new 6 speed.

Then I just need to find a reasonable parts car, or at least another cradle, and I should be able to get her running pretty soon.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #117, 06-02-2010 12:11 AM
      Hi guys,

Well funding has helped... I must admit.... But what really helped was Joe planning the build starting last October...Knowing what we wanted to do engine-wise and also buying parts a little at a time since then... We have morphed ideas and plans a few times, just enough to keep it interesting and in the best interest of the finished build and to stay within my ever changing budget..

I have been able to raise barely enough to keep us going by selling my other toys... so financing is tight... But we grow closer every day...

Truth is, we are moving quickly because of Joe's dedication and the support of the INW Fiero guys that come over on weekends and weekdays to help... I am very lucky to have that support... A "team build" is a lot more fun, less expensive and inspiring as we get three or four sets of eyes and ideas to keep us going. And of course... the amazing skill and support of Joe. (Fieroking) He is the mastermind and a true leader of this build. I hope others can find this kind of experience and support... add Justin, Tony and Aaron and we can't go wrong... I encourage others to take the same approach... Just like an "old time" barn building.... it goes a lot faster when you have your friends to help!

Now, I am off to smash another piggy bank! LOL

Jeff


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #118, 06-03-2010 10:38 PM
      Ruh Roh.... was that a thread killer? I guess I get pretty exuberant since I have had such good support... Yes... I agree it has cost a bit LOL... I guess in retro spect I could have bought my beautiful bride an 88 formula (which is what she wants) with what I have spent so far...

Can't wait for Saturday!!

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 06-03-2010).]

Isolde MSG #119, 06-03-2010 11:18 PM
      While I do agree with having a goal in mind from the day of the car purchase, and doing research to every extent possible, and acquiring needed stuff before diving in, I don't agree with advance detail planning, even with provisionals and contingencies, in light of unforseeable developments. it steals away necessary flexibility, resulting in the planning becoming either useless or worse, a hindrance. With barn-raisings, let's look at the only surviving example of which I'm thinking we're all aware: every Amish barn is fundamentally the same, they all have the same vision in mind, and thus there's no need for Matthew to try to get Mark, Luke and John onto the same page.
I do enjoy teamwork with friends, but my car must be built to my goal, and Jamie's car must be built to Jamie's goal.
Even so, well clarified, thank you.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #120, 06-03-2010 11:42 PM
      Most welcome Isolde!

Please don't take my remarks as though I have given up the engineering or artistic direction on my car due to funds or due to multiple opinions....In fact the opinions have helped save me money on the build with a still very unique car..... I guarantee this is no "look alike" barn.... Funds are slim but as all of my friends working on the build have said, "its your car." So, just as with my INW friends, please know I do respect your you opinion and thoughts on this...

So... on a more direct build subject.... On to the next step... the front suspension... And then putting everything back together again.... We are on the downhill side I think....

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 06-03-2010).]

dobey MSG #121, 06-04-2010 08:29 AM
      Have you decided what you're doing for exhaust routing yet? Are you going to try and route it like the stock Fiero exhaust, or just straight out the back, as most LS4 swaps have done so far?

Isolde MSG #122, 06-04-2010 09:07 AM
      Well, at least we agree that Fiero builds are nothing like "all the same". Progressing on my swap has been like climbing a snowy mountain: I keep the summit in sight pretty easily, but I keep stubbing my toes on rocks hidden by the snow, getting delayed by blizzards, and even some backtracking around crevasses that couldn't be recognized until I was virtually atop them.
thanks for sharing, being conversational, and being good-natured.


dobey MSG #123, 06-04-2010 09:53 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:
Well, at least we agree that Fiero builds are nothing like "all the same". Progressing on my swap has been like climbing a snowy mountain: I keep the summit in sight pretty easily, but I keep stubbing my toes on rocks hidden by the snow, getting delayed by blizzards, and even some backtracking around crevasses that couldn't be recognized until I was virtually atop them.
thanks for sharing, being conversational, and being good-natured.


It seems like the summit keeps moving further away, because there are always new cool things one can do to one's car.

My first Fiero, I just wanted to get running again and on the road. Was an 85 GT in otherwise good shape, but was on a salvage title. Had to replace the fuel pump, and it was running then at least. But then the trans would overheat and lock up hard, probably due to the TCC lockup failing. Unfortunately didn't have the money to keep going at it, back then. So I stripped a bunch of parts off her and had to let her go, after a few months of working on her.

Second Fiero, was an 86 GT that had several problems of her own, and was running ok and driveable at least. Goal with her was to go for the Northstar swap, and fix up the body and interior, although not going all out. She served me well, but eventually had to sell her off due to repair funds too, when emissions check time came around and she kept failing. Only had her for a couple years.

Now I've got an 87 GT and she's been good to me. Have had her for 5 years, and she's not going anywhere, except maybe up in the air to drop the 2.8 out, and put the LS4 in. Started off with the original plan of Northstar swap with her, then wanted to go for an LS6, and finally settled on an LS4, and the F40 6 speed. Trans is sitting here, and engine should be here in a week or so. She'll be getting an LS2 intake, port/polish on the intake, TB, and heads, probably will get the heads milled a little, and I'm slowly but surely refining the rest of the mods that will happen, based on funds vs. benefit ratio.

As for the interior, I've already got a Caddy STS power tilt/tele column, Cobalt steering wheel (being converted to Pontiac buttons), and a Grand Prix ignition switch and keys/fobs. The ignition switch would already be in, if there was anywhere in the stock dash, or the Caddy column to mount it. Looks like I'll have to build my custom dash before I can put it in though. So I'm also looking for a cheap car to use for parts in my area. Ideally I'd find another fastback, but that probably won't happen. I don't even need the engine/trans/axles in it. So long as it rolls and has the cradle, dash, door panels, and body panels, I'd be happy. Though the only body panels I really care about if it's not a fastback, is aero nose and everything forward of the cockpit. Custom widebodies are the best, and I'll certainly be needing a wider body to keep the shoes she'll be wearing from sticking out too far.


Isolde MSG #124, 06-04-2010 10:42 AM
      Why the LS2 intake manifold? It's no better than the LS1 version. If you're gonna upgrade, get the LS6 version. Yes, the LS6 uses a 78 mm TB, while the LS2 uses a 90 mm, but a 5.3L just doesn't need a 90 mm, even with a decent cam, and even with the difference in TBs, the LS6 version is still worth 10 horses over the LS2 version, when tested on a nearly stock LQ9 with just headers and cat-back and a tune.

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 06-04-2010).]

dobey MSG #125, 06-04-2010 11:47 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:
Why the LS2 intake manifold? It's no better than the LS1 version. If you're gonna upgrade, get the LS6 version. Yes, the LS6 uses a 78 mm TB, while the LS2 uses a 90 mm, but a 5.3L just doesn't need a 90 mm, even with a decent cam, and even with the difference in TBs, the LS6 version is still worth 10 horses over the LS2 version, when tested on a nearly stock LQ9 with just headers and cat-back and a tune.


Because it was cheap, and anything is better than the LS4 manifold. The 90mm vs 78mm for the LS2 and LS6 argument is irrelevant, because both the LS2 and LS6 are more than the stock LS4 needs/wants.


Tony Kania MSG #126, 06-04-2010 12:09 PM
      Dogcreek is one of the nicest, most "real" people that I have had the honor of calling a friend. But, his skills as an automotive technician.......eh?

There has been a lot of planning on this build before it took off. There has definately been modifications to this plan also. That is the way it works. Jeff has had this car for sometime now, and has stocked up, saved, scrounged, earned and toiled to get where he is now with her. He has a wonderful wife that supports him in this venture. There are many factors that have brought him to this point. Being born with a silver spoon is not one of them. And, even not being an expert automotive technician, he gets his hands dirty, asks questions, seeks advice, and listens to reason when it comes to this glorious build. The man works some crazy hours, but still finds time to live life. This is one of those times that you look at a man, and say to yourself, "this guys deserves this."

The support of this forum also needs to be recognized. Some great guys chiming in here to help this build. Jeff constantly thanks us all for our help. You just don't see that everyday. Hopefully others will be able to use this thread as a tool for their builds. Just nice to see so many chime in to help.


fieroguru MSG #127, 06-04-2010 12:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Because it was cheap, and anything is better than the LS4 manifold. The 90mm vs 78mm for the LS2 and LS6 argument is irrelevant, because both the LS2 and LS6 are more than the stock LS4 needs/wants.


The LS2 throttle body runs right into the LS4 water pump coolant passage... The LS6 and LS1 intakes have been successfully installed on the LS4's, but the LS2 probably isn't going to work if you keep the LS4 waterpump setup.


Isolde MSG #128, 06-04-2010 12:36 PM
      I really like Dogcreek, and he's changed my opinion of Mr. Kania, who I was sharp with, once, but I now regret that. Anyway, I never accused Dogcreek of being independently wealthy, just of having found a way to keep the build progressing so much more rapidly and steadily than my own. And even now that a couple of the great guys involved have told how it has proceeded, I don't see it speeding my own, but I don't mind. I count Dogcreek among my casual friends, and I tried to offer whatever little help I could.

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 06-04-2010).]

Isolde MSG #129, 06-04-2010 12:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


The LS2 throttle body runs right into the LS4 water pump coolant passage... The LS6 and LS1 intakes have been successfully installed on the LS4's, but the LS2 probably isn't going to work if you keep the LS4 waterpump setup.

Flip it around, these intake manifolds can feed from the trans. end of the engine.



fieroguru MSG #130, 06-04-2010 12:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

Flip it around, these intake manifolds can feed from the trans. end of the engine.


Ooops... yes keeping it facing the tranny is an option and since he is deleting all the DOD stuff, it should be able to fit.


dobey MSG #131, 06-04-2010 01:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
Ooops... yes keeping it facing the tranny is an option and since he is deleting all the DOD stuff, it should be able to fit.


Yes, and I am going to run an RWD water pump anyway. Mainly because if I do use the LS2 ECM, I need to also use the timing cover, and the cam sensor is 180 degrees off.


Tony Kania MSG #132, 06-04-2010 01:23 PM
      Islode.... You were never sharp with me. Maybe a bit blunt, but never sharp. I can be a rough charachter to get along with at times. I know this to be true. My friends here seem to put up with me. Once again, I am truely blessed to have the support of Fiero enthusiasts that have the same passion as i when it comes to our little mid engined commuter vehicles.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled program...

Edit: If I were closer to you brother, I would be right there with you, helping where I could. Good luck on your build.

Tony

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 06-04-2010).]

Isolde MSG #133, 06-04-2010 02:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Yes, and I am going to run an RWD water pump anyway. Mainly because if I do use the LS2 ECM, I need to also use the timing cover, and the cam sensor is 180 degrees off.


PM sent


dobey MSG #134, 06-06-2010 10:26 PM
      Guess it's about time to start my own build thread now. My truck should be good to be my primary vehicle again for a while, minus the fact that AC needs fixed in it. My LS4 should be here sometime this week or early next week. I've already been collecting some of the parts I'll be using in my build (steering wheel, column, ls2 intake/TB/valley cover, f40 trans). And it would be nice to get a clearer picture from start to finish documented somewhere other than in my head.

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #135, 06-09-2010 10:44 PM
      Newsflash! (OK just an update)

Hello to Joe the 3rd ~ Bobbing around in some large body of water somewhere!

Dobey, glad to hear you are getting started on your swap… so…. For those who have been wondering… Finally an update…

Saturday and Sunday both went well Fiero-wise. Joe, (Fieroking) who is doing the build, had covered a lot of ground... and it was all fabricating, testing, measuring, wiring and setup for what he had planned for us which was the “test fit” for both the engine and the steering column…and final fit for the power steering system. It was a GREAT deal of progress.

But aside from the Fiero, other great things happened as well. For example my youngest son David graduated from High School!! Woo Hoo! I somehow managed to cover all the bases and meet every obligation to the family which can be tough when you are in “Fiero Mode” but we had a great party for Dave and my nephew and had a great graduation and get-together afterward. I am very proud of you Dave!



So… for those who have asked or wondered… Here is another engine bay shot… Fixing some of the last of the Maaco atrocities….



And now the car stuff… Here is a shot of the finished engine… ready to go to her new home…



And another view… Besides the size, it is imposing… Joe did an amazing job fabbing all of the changes needed… today is the final “test fit” for any mods we may need or tweaking etc….



And now… with a liberal coating of grease… to help shoe-horn ‘er in… LOL Kidding of course… we lined her up and began.



Lining her up… checking things twice… we will soon find out if we were naughty or nice! (ok .. corny, I know)
Bada Bing ~ Bada boom…. A little engine wrestling and she slid right up to where she belongs!



And from the top…. Almost…almost… wait for it…easy…. And she is in!!!!!



Now here is where the excellent planning and fabbing really show.. The wire harness is not laid out like it will be when we are done but the measurements and routing are all there!



And…..



And a view with the air filter can and mount… Looking really good! Thanks Joe!



So there you have it!! This weekend’s progress… Hope everyone has a great week!! Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-06-2012).]

Isolde MSG #136, 06-10-2010 01:34 PM
      Any of you willing to drive to SLC for '88 suspension and cradle? if so, idcsr1@aol.com the catch is, the weld nuts are spinning in the frame, and you're limited to hand tools. 1 '88 is rear only, with a little rust, but only $75 plus my fee for details. The other is front and rear, but much more $, and the right rear parallel link is bent. But virtually no rust.

dobey MSG #137, 06-11-2010 11:06 PM
      Well, I've gone and done it now.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/109387.html


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #138, 06-11-2010 11:21 PM
      Dobey!!!! Go for it!!! That is really cool.... We are getting somewhere close to the end of my build and then another begins.... Great Karma.... keep the chain going! This is excellent!! Of all the LS4 builds so far everyone is a little different and that is what makes them cool...

Love to see pics and watch your build as closely as you have watched mine...

Sweet looking car and engine! Keep us posted!

Jeff



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #139, 06-11-2010 11:35 PM
      Double post... blame it on fumble fingers

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-06-2012).]

dobey MSG #140, 06-12-2010 07:09 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:
Dobey!!!! Go for it!!! That is really cool.... We are getting somewhere close to the end of my build and then another begins.... Great Karma.... keep the chain going! This is excellent!! Of all the LS4 builds so far everyone is a little different and that is what makes them cool...

Love to see pics and watch your build as closely as you have watched mine...

Sweet looking car and engine! Keep us posted!


Thanks Jeff! I'm going to try and do a few things every few days at a minimum, even if that just means buying something else and waiting for it to get here, at times. My swap will probably happen over several months, and I'm not rushing to get it done; though I can't wait to hear the V8 running in my car. I'll also be working on other parts of the car too, so I'll be posting up electrical, body, and interior details too, when I get to working on them.

-- Rodney


Tony Kania MSG #141, 06-12-2010 09:01 PM
      I have no pics, but tore out Jeff's front suspension today. All ready for the powder coater. (Except for burning out the bushings. I will let Jeff do that. ) My 87GT was a Michigan car, with about 100,000 miles less on the suspension. I struggled and fought with my suspension hardware. Dogcreek's car is so solid and rust free, that I casually just pulled the front apart. So very happy that we don't lay salt on the roads. Even the long bolts for the control arms were rust free, and came out by hand! I remember hours of a cut off wheel and a hammer and chisle.

FieroKing put the engine back in for the last time also, but I will let them comment on that. After a little swab of KY, she popped right in.

Tony


dobey MSG #142, 06-12-2010 09:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:
My 87GT was a Michigan car, with about 100,000 miles less on the suspension. I struggled and fought with my suspension hardware. Dogcreek's car is so solid and rust free, that I casually just pulled the front apart. So very happy that we don't lay salt on the roads. Even the long bolts for the control arms were rust free, and came out by hand! I remember hours of a cut off wheel and a hammer and chisle.


Hah. I know what you mean. I got my current GT while in MA. The manifold bolts and spark plugs were quite rusty. And the studs in the convertor on my S-10 were so rusted, I ended up breaking most of them off, and having to replace the convertor, and rear o2 sensor (i couldn't get it loose from the old cat).

Started taking stuff off this LS4, and the bolts break loose so easily. I pulled one of the plugs to look at it, and it barely took any effort to turn it. Came out like it was coated with butter.


dobey MSG #143, 06-13-2010 10:54 PM
      Hey Jeff. I can tell from your pics that you've got the E67 ECM with your engine, and it's from a 2007. My engine is out of a 2006 Impala, though I'm not yet sure if it has the 58x reluctor or the 24x reluctor, and which ECM would have been in the car. Though, the map sensor position indicates it's likely got the 24x reluctor and was running on the E40 ECM.

However, I'm going with the LS2 intake and throttle body, but the LS2 TB has only 6 wires going to it, while the LS4 TB connector has 8. I was wondering if this might have changed for the 07 model year LS4 cars as well, and if the 07-08 LS4 throttle bodies have only 6 wires instead. Can you tell me how many wires are in the TB connector? I would just look at your pics and count, but the only one with any view of that connector on the TB is nowhere near a high enough resolution to make a reasonable count on.

Thanks!


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #144, 06-14-2010 11:45 PM
      WEEKEND UPDATE (API and UPI)

Hi Dobey, I will look for a better pic or maybe Joe can step in and tell you the wire count on the Throttle body… I think it is 6 but don’t count on that… Not sure on the ECM… that’s is Joe’s department LOL

An abbreviated post tonight as unbeknownst to me the camera filled up and I have a number of pics that didn’t take… Oh well… such is life… Here is an update of major stuff over the last week.

ENGINE IS IN!



FRONT END OUT! (Thanks Tony!) And man did I reek like burned rubber on Sunday… had to burn out four of the bushings… or, I was batting .500 as I got four out easily… Depends on your outlook…



THE REAR SUSPENSION IN! (Schwing!!! "Wayne's World")



And... The EXHAUST SYSTEM! To answer Dobey’s earlier question we are doing this like Rickaddy did… [Minus the flex pipe…] Two cats (Magnaflow) and C6 resonators… One crossover to the rear and a dive down under the trunk… Woo Hoo!



So… what is happening now? The front suspension parts are at the powder coaters… Justin has the steering wheel making a mold for the cover… Joe is wiring the front, finishing up the connections and modding what he needs to do up in the cockpit to fit the wheel, cruise, throttle pedal, push button start with start key and accessory setting.

He shortened the shifter and once the cable was in this thing clicks like a fine watch….. Click…click…click… Oh Yeah! Smooth and precise!

So, still waiting for the reverse alternator back from WCF, lot's of progress will be made soon... till next weekend and more pictures.

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-06-2012).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #145, 06-17-2010 09:39 PM
      Hey NW guys and gals,

Just in case you haven't seen it... Paul posted the info and registration page for FieroFest!! Woo Hoo! http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/081411.html

Just wanted to make sure that all of the NW oriented folks were aware.... Isolde, ManMadeChickens, thedrue, and JPH87 (Justin...sorry for being so formal..LOL) We hope to have you there!!! August 13th-15th in Richland WA.

I know Joe, Tony and Aaron will be there! Joe the 3rd...you gonna make it again this year ? Hope so!!

And.....When I made my reservation the hotel guy remembered us from last year and said they finally got the stains out of the suite Aaron, Greg and Tyler shared and stated that he hoped there wouldn't be any protesters there over the "Gummy Bear" incident..... And, yes, Gummy Bears were injured and mistreated during this event. They also want to know what was in the "big cooler."

Anyway...

Go get registered! This is a lot of fun!! And it is a "Fiero Frenzy!!"

Jeff


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #146, 06-18-2010 12:21 AM
      Um, I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about.

Oh, btw, I ogled your car tonight, and stared at it lustfully.

I may or may not have hidden a gummy-bear somewhere that you may or may not find it. We'll see.


mrbeef (jje46m3@yahoo.com) MSG #147, 06-19-2010 11:15 PM
      Hey every one i for got i had a profile on here. Any who i have been following you build and it looks amazing, from the few pics that the slow internet lets me see. Any who i am goin go tbe home from the 4 the 17 of aug, so i will be at fiero few driving the 3.4 DOHC car. well any who i am out to sea now so i will talk to you guys when i get back. LATER

MM2(SW) SOKOL


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #148, 06-20-2010 12:33 AM
      Joe 3!!

Good to hear from you... Your Dad is THE MAN!!! Heard today you were going to be here for FieroFest!! Right on!!! We had quite the crew at the house today... You have some new friends to meet and it will be a great run this year~! Looking forward to seeing you again! Also, we will post some pics tomorrow from todays work!

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 06-20-2010).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #149, 06-20-2010 12:42 AM
      Oh...almost forgot.... the new reverse alternator mount is on its way from Chris at WCF!! THANKS CHRIS! Tone of pics on it coming soon!

dobey MSG #150, 06-20-2010 10:51 PM
      So did you get her started this weekend? Or find some place to mount the ignition switch?

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #151, 06-21-2010 08:44 PM
      No to the starting...BUT...It came to me in a dream... I am wondering about the on/off key switch in the blank spot between the power window switches and the "push to start" below the trunk release... Not sure if they will fit.... just thinking out loud...

Jeff


dobey MSG #152, 06-21-2010 09:09 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:
No to the starting...BUT...It came to me in a dream... I am wondering about the on/off key switch in the blank spot between the power window switches and the "push to start" below the trunk release... Not sure if they will fit.... just thinking out loud...


Hehe. Are you installing a pushbutton start system? Or just a toggle switch and start button? Or are you going with the GP key and ignition switch?

I guess if you don't have power mirrors, you could put something between the window buttons. And I'm guessing you don't have defrost either. I really wish I had an extra gauge surround now, so I could see about making it a little larger, and fitting the GP ignition switch inside it.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #153, 06-21-2010 09:24 PM
      Yeah... we have a basic plan.. Joe got a 2008 Pontiac key module and that thing was HUGE... About the height of a Coke can deep and almost as big around... We looked it over good and decided to go another route.. No where to put it...

So we will have a traditional key and slot required to use the car that has an acc and off/on setting. And we will be putting in a "push button start" switch... The reason being is once my wallet recovers, I would really like to put an RFID system in and eliminate the keyed method... door locks etc.....

Forgot to mention Joe did a sweet job on the exhaust... We got to BS'ing with Aaron and Don and I didn't take many pictures.. In fact I forgot my camera at home and used Joe's... I will get a good pic of the exhaust as he did a fine job routing it and it is gonna growl a little I think... We followed Ricks lead and did two cats (Magnaflow) and will be using C6 resonator tips.

Another missing set of pics is the fab work Justin did to the factory GXP wheel.. It is looking good.... In fact he is doing an LS4 next so he is working up a mold to be used... Coming right along... Oh...and I got the poly in the front susp parts.... they came back from the powder coaters....

So... the next update should be full of pics!!

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 06-21-2010).]

dobey MSG #154, 06-21-2010 09:58 PM
      Great. Exhaust with just the two cats going straight out the back is going to be really loud. I can tell how loud it is just watching Rick's videos on youtube, with the car idling. I saw blkcofy added a muffler onto his exhaust because it was too loud without it. His car definitely seems a lot less noisy, in the video he posted.

I'm going to go with pretty much stock (Fiero) routing of the exhaust, though. So I'll be mounting in the GP cat, and will use either my current muffler, or perhaps get a spintech or something, and the C6 tips as well.

BTW, they're actually not resonator tips. They're muffler tips. They do muffle the sound a little, but nowhere near enough to handle a big V8. I would really love to try and do the C6 Z06 tips, with the ecu-controlled butterfly valves, but those are definitely $$$.


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #155, 06-21-2010 10:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


It seems like the summit keeps moving further away, because there are always new cool things one can do to one's car.

My first Fiero, I just wanted to get running again and on the road. Was an 85 GT in otherwise good shape, but was on a salvage title. Had to replace the fuel pump, and it was running then at least. But then the trans would overheat and lock up hard, probably due to the TCC lockup failing. Unfortunately didn't have the money to keep going at it, back then. So I stripped a bunch of parts off her and had to let her go, after a few months of working on her.

Second Fiero, was an 86 GT that had several problems of her own, and was running ok and driveable at least. Goal with her was to go for the Northstar swap, and fix up the body and interior, although not going all out. She served me well, but eventually had to sell her off due to repair funds too, when emissions check time came around and she kept failing. Only had her for a couple years.

Now I've got an 87 GT and she's been good to me. Have had her for 5 years, and she's not going anywhere, except maybe up in the air to drop the 2.8 out, and put the LS4 in. Started off with the original plan of Northstar swap with her, then wanted to go for an LS6, and finally settled on an LS4, and the F40 6 speed. Trans is sitting here, and engine should be here in a week or so. She'll be getting an LS2 intake, port/polish on the intake, TB, and heads, probably will get the heads milled a little, and I'm slowly but surely refining the rest of the mods that will happen, based on funds vs. benefit ratio.

As for the interior, I've already got a Caddy STS power tilt/tele column, Cobalt steering wheel (being converted to Pontiac buttons), and a Grand Prix ignition switch and keys/fobs. The ignition switch would already be in, if there was anywhere in the stock dash, or the Caddy column to mount it. Looks like I'll have to build my custom dash before I can put it in though. So I'm also looking for a cheap car to use for parts in my area. Ideally I'd find another fastback, but that probably won't happen. I don't even need the engine/trans/axles in it. So long as it rolls and has the cradle, dash, door panels, and body panels, I'd be happy. Though the only body panels I really care about if it's not a fastback, is aero nose and everything forward of the cockpit. Custom widebodies are the best, and I'll certainly be needing a wider body to keep the shoes she'll be wearing from sticking out too far.



Rodney,
Hang in there. My swap took my 6 years to finish. Don't expect to get it done overnight. My advice, double the time, and triple the cost. And you always have us in the club to help. Just call. We love to wrench with someone else's money :-)

Rob

.



dobey MSG #156, 06-22-2010 08:30 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:
Rodney,
Hang in there. My swap took my 6 years to finish. Don't expect to get it done overnight. My advice, double the time, and triple the cost. And you always have us in the club to help. Just call. We love to wrench with someone else's money :-)

Rob


Yeah. I'm not expecting to get it done overnight. I'm just expecting to get it done right. But I'll be getting a second car in a few weeks hopefully, so I can do any necessary mods to that car, and transfer them over. After I get back from London, I shouldn't have to travel any more until the fall, at least, and I hope to get the engine apart, cleaned up, and back together; ready to bolt up to the trans and cradle, and start working on the starter and clutch issues. I'm thinking that the stock dual-mass flywheel and clutch setup that came in the F40 G6 cars should work well. They just seem to be difficult to find though. Thanks!


dobey MSG #157, 06-27-2010 07:02 PM
      Now, I know you had to make some progress these past couple of weekends. Where's the updates?

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #158, 06-29-2010 09:06 PM
      DATELINE 6_26_2010

Update and build status!

Ok, we are on the downhill side and picking up speed! A lot has been done and of course my posts have been slow because we have been busy working on things! I will answer a couple of questions asked earlier in this thread and give a general synopsis on where we are at...

Done:

Engine, cradle, and computer and most wiring in engine bay ~ Done
Rear Suspension and brakes ~ Done
Wheel wells cleaned and painted ready to go back in ~ Done
Power Steering upgrade ~ Done
Fuel lines and system ~ Done
Power Steering lines to front ~ Done
All engine wiring thru to the cabin ~ Done
Battery power to front bay ~ Done
Front bay repainted and ready to re-assemble ~ Done
Push button start system ~ Done
Short Shifter ~ Done
GXP column slightly modded and ready to mount ~ Done

and.... what we are doing now.. the "downhill side..."

WC high reverse mount alt bracket... Test fitted
Cabin and chassis wiring ~ Underway
Front battery mount ~ underway
Front suspension ~ Re-install
replaced broken "air dam" ~ Almost done
Custom GXP wheel pad and horn buttons ~ underway
Put all body parts back on ~ Soon
Turn the key ~ oh yes... coming soon



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #159, 06-29-2010 11:19 PM
      Jeff, I have 2 skeletons, and both are in better shape than yours was I think. If you'd like a better one to start with, gimme a call.. I'll give you one for that radio you gave me.




Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #160, 06-30-2010 09:00 PM
      Thanks for the offer Aaron... What I really need... if you have one is the padded "heater~radio vertical surround for a GT....." I think I showed you the outcome of my little disaster.... Have one of those by any chance?

PS.... Tony and Joe and I really hit it today.... really on the downhill section now! Pics later tonight....

Jeff


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #161, 06-30-2010 09:50 PM
      Nope, sorry, I have a non-gt brown and grey, and I'm planning on using the grey.. If you want the brown one to try again, you're free to have it.



Edited to reflect extreme and dominating PAGE OWNAGE.

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 06-30-2010).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #162, 07-03-2010 11:48 PM
      More pics tonight... but just for fun....



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #163, 07-04-2010 02:37 PM
      Fiero Fans....

This Wednesday and Saturdays picture and progress update!

First, the new 3-core Champion Aluminum Radiator...



And it mounted... Joe used a neat technique to replace the hard rubber mounts on the bottom and the top. Very snug and no metal to metal contact...



And with a custom air containment shield to replace the ratty and ripped stock model..



Next.... Tony going to town on the front suspension....



You had to be there to appreciate Tony's sense of humor... He was making chimp sounds as he was doing this and Joe and I were laughing our heads off.. truly funny moments!



Installed!!! Now for brakes and tie rod ends and sway bar... they are all ready to go in... THANKS TONY!



The finished West Coast Alt mount! It fits, it is well made and the alternator can be changed out from above!! Thanks Chris and WCF! (view is top down, in the car...left side of pic going to front of car...



Joe has the exhaust system done! Got the C6 tips in and they look GREAT!



Joe finished fabbing his original plan for induction. This turned out really well and is setup to be easily attached to a side scoop when I get to that point. Top quality fabbing here!

]

And last but not least...an almost finshed bay... needs some cleaning and tie ups but it is coming along... See note in pic... Joe and I got a kick out of the magnet mounts for the tool he made for the belt tensioner...



More soon!!! Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-07-2012).]

dobey MSG #164, 07-07-2010 11:25 AM
      Nice work. Looks like you should have her running soon.

Hopefully I can get some work done in the next few days. This 'severe weather' with air quality, humidity, and heat, is just crazy.


TurboTec MSG #165, 07-07-2010 12:27 PM
      Hey Jeff, wow what a nice job your doing. I've been following your progress and the car is looking great! Have you been able to get it fired off yet?

Frank


Thehudson22 (viperstrike1@optonline.net) MSG #166, 07-07-2010 04:23 PM
      Wered u manage to find one of those i live in new york and i could never get my hands on one so ive settled on a 3800 but ill love one of those bad boys

Isolde MSG #167, 07-07-2010 05:39 PM
      www.lkqcorp.com, $1400 or so

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #168, 07-07-2010 08:58 PM
      Thanks for the nice comments Frank and Dobey... it is so close I can taste it!

Dobey: Don't know if you saw it on page 4 but there is a pics of the key and push start setup... What do you think?

Isolde: Thanks for the link... I saved that as they look like another good source... cool and thanks!

Hudson: I got mine from Morad Motors. They have a nice searchable Ebay store.... Just search under Ebay Motors ~ Also the link Isolde sent looks very promising...

Now... three of you are from the East coast and I feel for you.... The heat storm must royally suck! We will be in the 90's tomorrow here but with low humidity.. I don't know how you do it! Hang in there and drink lot's of water!!

More pics in the next day or so - Jeff



dobey MSG #169, 07-07-2010 09:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Thanks for the nice comments Frank and Dobey... it is so close I can taste it!

Dobey: Don't know if you saw it on page 4 but there is a pics of the key and push start setup... What do you think?

Isolde: Thanks for the link... I saved that as they look like another good source... cool and thanks!

Hudson: I got mine from Morad Motors. They have a nice searchable Ebay store.... Just search under Ebay Motors ~ Also the link Isolde sent looks very promising...

Now... three of you are from the East coast and I feel for you.... The heat storm must royally suck! We will be in the 90's tomorrow here but with low humidity.. I don't know how you do it! Hang in there and drink lot's of water!!

More pics in the next day or so - Jeff


Hehe. The New Yorkers are the ones really suffering I guess. I've certainly been in worse heat before. 100+ degree day at the drag strip, and the starting line cooking to 400+ degrees. You know it's hot when your shoes stick to the tarmac.

As for the ignition switch, if you like it, and it works for you, it's ok I guess. I don't want to use a generic key switch in my car, or the push button, though. I thought about doing the keyless push button start for a while, but decided not to, as it's not really worth the trouble. It's probably easier to mount, but dealing with the headache of the key fobs isn't something I'm wanting to muck around with.

Do you have a wiring diagram of the GXP ignition switch? Or a diagram of the GXP turn signal stalk wiring? I'm very interested in both if you do.

Looking forward to seeing a video of the car running.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #170, 07-07-2010 09:45 PM
      Dobey: Thanks for your thoughts.... We did the placement as a soon to be (when my wallet recovers) addition is an RFID system. I will keep the switch but may relocate it... When we do that the key will go away...

What do you plan next on yours?



TurboTec MSG #171, 07-07-2010 10:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Now... three of you are from the East coast and I feel for you.... The heat storm must royally suck! We will be in the 90's tomorrow here but with low humidity.. I don't know how you do it! Hang in there and drink lot's of water!!



Yep, I was out in the garage for 30min tonight and that was enough for me... I came into the house my wife asked if I was out in the yard playing in the sprinkler. LOL

Frank


TurboTec MSG #172, 07-07-2010 10:37 PM
      Jeff, when you get a chance can you give me a shot straight down over the motor on the passenger side? I'm going with an on radiator electric water pump and thinking of running the TB on the passenger side of the motor (Standard orientation) to give me more clearance for the turbo over the transmission. I'm going to run the stock LS4 TB with the LS2 intake and hopefully squeeze an elbow in clearing the tower...

Here is another good parts resource link, I use it all of the time...

http://www.car-part.com/

Frank


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #173, 07-07-2010 11:47 PM
      Will do Frank!

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #174, 07-07-2010 11:54 PM
      Dobey, missed your question...sorry... I will check and see if Joe does... He may have the diagrams...

Jeff


Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #175, 07-08-2010 12:48 AM
      Turbotec

I don't understand were you are going with your build! The standard orientation for the throttle body is on the driver side. Why would you go to the trouble of getting a LS4 with the FWD engine orientation and then get rid of the water pump and run an electric pump? If you are going that route you don't need an LS4 use a LS6 instead. Remember the LS4 has a very flat accessory drive setup that fits into the Fiero with very few mods the the car.

Joe Sokol (Jeff's Builder)



TurboTec MSG #176, 07-08-2010 08:15 AM
      Hey Joe, I meant standard LS2 intake orientation sorry. I'd like to do this for a couple of reasons, to make more room available on the drivers side over the transmission (for a turbo) and to reverse cool the block by pumping water into the heads first (top ports of the block) lowering the risks of detonation from forced induction. I totally agree with you about the accessory drive and ease of install for a normally aspirated application as you guys have demonstrated so well with this build... But, the LS4 offers a lot more advantages than just a flat water pump and accessory drive, right?

I'm going with a 50 GPM remote electric water pump mounted directly on the cold side of the radiator at the lowest point pushing water to the motor...

Frank


dobey MSG #177, 07-08-2010 10:46 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TurboTec:

Hey Joe, I meant standard LS2 intake orientation sorry. I'd like to do this for a couple of reasons, to make more room available on the drivers side over the transmission (for a turbo) and to reverse cool the block by pumping water into the heads first (top ports of the block) lowering the risks of detonation from forced induction. I totally agree with you about the accessory drive and ease of install for a normally aspirated application as you guys have demonstrated so well with this build... But, the LS4 offers a lot more advantages than just a flat water pump and accessory drive, right?

I'm going with a 50 GPM remote electric water pump mounted directly on the cold side of the radiator at the lowest point pushing water to the motor...

Frank


The LS4 has a shorter crank snout and has the FWD bell housing pattern. It doesn't have the standard FWD starter mount though, but if you're going with the 4t65e-HD mounted to the LS4 originally, then it's fine, since the starter is on the trans. And it's a Gen IV block.

Beyond that, there really isn't much advantage. Though they are probably a lot cheaper than just buying an LS2 or LS3, and as I understand, the heads are better than the ones on the LS3, in stock form, anyway


dobey MSG #178, 07-08-2010 11:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:
Dobey: Thanks for your thoughts.... We did the placement as a soon to be (when my wallet recovers) addition is an RFID system. I will keep the switch but may relocate it... When we do that the key will go away...

What do you plan next on yours?


It looks like it won't be as hot today (high of 90 instead of over 100), so hopefully will get my garage cleaned out a bit more, and my new parts washer put together, and get the crank and cam out. I have a 58x reluctor wheel waiting to replace the 24x that's on it. I still need to get a new style (4x) cam gear, new sensors, lifters, cam, and head bolts. I also need to figure out if the LS2/3 water pump will clear the LS4 cam sensor. It looks like it might be pretty tight in that area. I also need to figure out if the LS2/3 pump will clear the strut tower.

And I need to figure out the wiring for the GP turn signal stalk, the Caddy STS wiper switch, and the GP ignition switch. As well as where to mount the ignition switch. Looks like it's time to find another gauge surround and start playing with some foam and fiberglass to make a place for mounting the switch. Hopefully, I can get all this worked out soon. I really want to get the new column and wheel in the car.


TurboTec MSG #179, 07-08-2010 11:46 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


The LS4 has a shorter crank snout and has the FWD bell housing pattern. It doesn't have the standard FWD starter mount though, but if you're going with the 4t65e-HD mounted to the LS4 originally, then it's fine, since the starter is on the trans. And it's a Gen IV block.



Exactly... but lets not forget HV oil pump & 243 heads.

(Edit: Sorry, just read again and you mentioned the heads. However the LS3 heads are much better and out flow the 243 castings by far)

Frank

[This message has been edited by TurboTec (edited 07-08-2010).]

dobey MSG #180, 07-08-2010 01:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TurboTec:
Exactly... but lets not forget HV oil pump & 243 heads.

(Edit: Sorry, just read again and you mentioned the heads. However the LS3 heads are much better and out flow the 243 castings by far)

Frank


I think the oil pump is only a benefit if you keep the DoD system in tact. As I understand from poking about through a couple other forums, the oil pumps on the AFM cars can actually pump out too much oil, and leave the sump dry, on the regular engines, under certain conditions. So, with deleting the DoD entirely and going with LS2 lifters/valley, it may well be better to swap out the oil pump for a regular LS2 pump as well. But that may just be an issue with the oil pans on the FR configuration cars, vs the seemingly large LS4 oil pan. I'm planning on changing the oil pan out for a low profile Vette/CTS pan instead, to give a little bit more room for exhaust routing under the front of the motor, so I'll be changing out the oil pump as well.


TurboTec MSG #181, 07-08-2010 01:19 PM
      Na, the extra oil will be going to the turbo... I found you will loose about 10PSI on a stock system just with the addition of a turbo. Good oil pressure and flow is a good thing with forced induction...

I would rethink that pan swap... Special designed oil pan baffles, and windage trays, are incorporated into the LS4 to ensure that the oil sump stays loaded during high-g cornering, acceleration and braking. GM designed this booger to run sideways...

[This message has been edited by TurboTec (edited 07-08-2010).]

Isolde MSG #182, 07-08-2010 07:22 PM
      Yes, they designed it to run transversely, but they didn't design it for more than 0.85g in any direction. The '05-'06 'vette LS2 pan is designed to exceed 1g, sustained, in every direction, so it would be even better for an extreme-performance Fiero. It may also give better ground clearance.

dobey MSG #183, 07-08-2010 09:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

Yes, they designed it to run transversely, but they didn't design it for more than 0.85g in any direction. The '05-'06 'vette LS2 pan is designed to exceed 1g, sustained, in every direction, so it would be even better for an extreme-performance Fiero. It may also give better ground clearance.


It would probably be more correct to say they designed the oil pan for the DoD, than to be in a FWD car. Looking at the inside of the pan, there isn't really anything that says to me "this is designed to be in a FWD high performance car." Rather, as it wasn't going into a sports car, accelerating and lateral G force probably weren't much of a concern, as even with 300hp at the crank, it take a little more umf to get the 3600 lb GXP moving. I don't know if the oil pan was changed for the 07-08 engines, but the 05-06 pan doesn't look spectacular by any means.

The C6 Vette pan, on the other hand, does indeed look like it was designed to handle high performance applications. I'm pretty sure I'll be going with the C6 low profile pan. I don't think ground clearnace is an issue for either pan in the Fiero, but the low profile pan does give more room for routing exhaust underneath, as the stock 2.8 setup runs.


dobey MSG #184, 07-09-2010 06:58 PM
      Well, I think I've gotten most of the wiring figured out for the GP turn signal stalk. There are a few wires I'm not so sure about yet, and the hazard switch seems to behave oddly. It appears that electricity is flowing through it when the button is up, rather than down. Is this the same behavior on yours?

To test with a multimeter the blk/wht wire on the larger connector (A marking on plastic next to it), is where I connected the multimeter gnd, and the tan wire on the smaller connector (pin 16), is where I connected the other end of the multimeter, in the lowest resistance test mode. With the hazard button down, it sits at 1, but with it up, the resistance drops. Seems backward to me.


Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #185, 07-10-2010 12:26 AM
      The Hazard switch is off in the down position of the GXP column that I am installing in Jeff''s car.

Joe Sokol



dobey MSG #186, 07-10-2010 12:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fieroking:

The Hazard switch is off in the down position of the GXP column that I am installing in Jeff''s car.

Joe Sokol



Interesting. So at least my readings are correct then, even if it seems backward to me. Seems to be the same in my S-10 as well. Thanks.


Tony Kania MSG #187, 07-11-2010 01:00 PM
      Whooweee! Progress! Gotta love it!?

Stopped by Fieroking's yesterday, after a nice sweet drive down the Palouse. (There are some exceptional roads in our neck of the woods. ) Joe had a clan of Fiero owners standing around with hands in pocket. I too, became one of the masses. Dogcreek's car is coming along in leaps and bounds. Jeff has just about had every inch touched on his "old" Fiero. Heart transplant. Flexed muscle in the steering department. Upgraded and freshened suspension, and brakes. This is really becoming one of the very best Fieros out there. It is a well cared for lady, and will only improve with age. Ever so close to startup.

The ape pics. He, he, he. The vice was in use. That is all...

Edit: Almost forgot. Thanks for the headlamp hardware Fieroking.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 07-11-2010).]

dobey MSG #188, 07-11-2010 04:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fieroking:

The Hazard switch is off in the down position of the GXP column that I am installing in Jeff''s car.

Joe Sokol



Oh, I just remembered to ask… Is there any interference with the Fiero gauge pod and the GP steering column shroud? I haven't tried to fit it in yet, but from my measurements, it looks like there could be some clearance issues there. But those measurements are also based on the telescoping Caddy column I have, so I'm not sure what the measurements are on the standard tilt columns.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #189, 07-11-2010 11:13 PM
      Hi Dobey,

The tilt whell has full movement.... BUT.... with the wide odd shaped GXP column there is some cutting to do on the upper and lower covers. Based on what we looked at today I think the gaps can easily be sealed with rubber flanges that will still look nice.

Pics of progress in a bit.

Jeff


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #190, 07-12-2010 12:05 AM
      Dateline 7-11-2010

1 month to go to NW FieroFest..... Lot of things to do to my car, Joe 3's, Aarons and Tylers... but we WILL make it! to do... The Spokane club will be ready!!!

Anyway.... I walk in today and Joe (FieroKing and builder) says "well I have some bad news... we won't be able to start today as the AC hoses I got back from the AC guy are too short," my reply... no problemo.... we have plenty to do and we sure did.... Here is today's "done" list

Mirrors mounted
Brakes bled
Power Applied!!! Headlights work, running lights, windows, courtesy, Fuel pump, Gauges, idiot lights etc...
Oil and filter
Door panels readied for install with new attachment points
Install front sway bar links
Steering wheel centered and ready for correct tie rod ends

So.... to start things off on a humorous note.... we told Aaron and Tony we changed our minds on the swap and showed them this... It was funny but maybe you had to be there!



LOL... anyway... here are a few of the things we did or wrapped up...

Radiator, fan/shroud and bottle plumbed and ready to go



and the front is done, stainless lines, sway bar, and the suspension that Tony put together last weekend... Looking good!



Gauge pod, column and relay converter system installed.... This is a nice, comfortable fit..... Looks good from the drivers seat as well...



And for Frank..... This is the best I can do on "down shots" but hope these will help... First the overall engine compartment...



and..... passenger side rear view...



And from the passenger side... closer view... front of pic is to the right...



Column and relay column conversion system...



And last.... the headlight go up and down and work!!! Small steps but big progress....




Things will be happening fast from here on out..... More posts to come....

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-07-2012).]

Isolde MSG #191, 07-12-2010 07:32 AM
      excellent!

dobey MSG #192, 07-12-2010 10:14 PM
      What are all the relays for on the column install? From my poking at the column/steering wheel, the only bits that need anything special really, are the wiper controls and the audio/cruise controls on the steering wheel. But I'm not quite sure how a few relays would help with that, since there is only a minute change in resistance across the different buttons.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #193, 07-13-2010 12:44 AM
      I believe it was because he used the gxp wheel and column, and none of the switches in the GXP column were meant to handle high current like the fiero's column switches.. So they needed a relay for each directional signal, hazards, running lights, parking lights, headlights, hi/low selector, etc.

I'm sure Joe will chime in with the details, but I think that's the gist of it..



Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #194, 07-13-2010 01:29 AM
      Arron hit it right. In removing the fiero column and going to a push button start I had to replace the functions done by the 3 mechanical switches on the column and Instrument cluster (turm/hazard, key start, and running/headlights). The hardest to replace is the Turn Signal/Hazard switch. I used 7 relays to replace the mechanical switch on column with inputs from the GXP column. The running light/headlight switch needed 3 relays and the Key switch needed just 2. All this fit into the area below the drive side speaker. I am using the wiper controls on the column to run the Fiero wiper, my measurements show that the resistances are very close so hopefully will work as advertised.

Joe Sokol (Jeff's builder)



dobey MSG #195, 07-13-2010 09:01 AM
      Interesting. Do you know what the various amperage ratings are on the Fiero wiring vs. the GXP column stalks?

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #196, 07-13-2010 02:45 PM
      It's not the wiring, but the switches themselves. Fiero turn signal switch and ign switch are HUGE monsters in and above the column. GXP column switches are dainty little princesses that were designed to communicate with the BCM which then did the heavy lifting.

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #197, 07-13-2010 08:49 PM
      "Dainty little princesses" LOL Good one Aaron! You always crack me up!!

Jeff


dobey MSG #198, 07-13-2010 10:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:
It's not the wiring, but the switches themselves. Fiero turn signal switch and ign switch are HUGE monsters in and above the column. GXP column switches are dainty little princesses that were designed to communicate with the BCM which then did the heavy lifting.


Right, but if you're removing the Fiero switches, then their abilities are irrelevant, and what matters is how much amperage is going through the wires (and would thus be going through the switches).

And I don't think it's entirely true about communicating with the BCM instead. There's no logic at all inside the turn stalk. It's mostly just a bunch of copper touching (or not) some other copper. Some of the wires are pretty small, and might just melt down with too much amperage, though.

I'm just interested if anyone's actually measured what the differences and limits are, between the Fiero and GXP turn stalks.


Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #199, 07-13-2010 11:06 PM
      Dobey

The reason for using relay's is, the relay can carry a heavier Amp Load. The switches in the GXP column provide a path to ground for the relays coil, The contacts in the relay carry the load this way I don't burn out the GXP column switches that are dainty little princesses.

I don't know the amp loads but as an example the fuse for the turn signal/ backup lights is 20 amps. Most automotive relays can carry 15 amps with no problem. The main relays in the power circuit Aux and Run are rated at 30 amps.

Joe Sokol (Jeff's builder)



TurboTec MSG #200, 07-14-2010 12:28 AM
      Thanks Jeff, that's exactly what I was looking for... Looking good.

Frank


Isolde MSG #201, 07-14-2010 04:43 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

"Dainty little princesses" LOL Good one Aaron! You always crack me up!!

Jeff


I second that.


dobey MSG #202, 07-14-2010 01:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fieroking:
The reason for using relay's is, the relay can carry a heavier Amp Load. The switches in the GXP column provide a path to ground for the relays coil, The contacts in the relay carry the load this way I don't burn out the GXP column switches that are dainty little princesses.

I don't know the amp loads but as an example the fuse for the turn signal/ backup lights is 20 amps. Most automotive relays can carry 15 amps with no problem. The main relays in the power circuit Aux and Run are rated at 30 amps.


I know what relays are for. I was just hoping there was a little more clarity on whether or not they were actually needed in this specific application, but it seems there isn't. I wasn't planning on adding any additional relays here, as you did, so I'm curious as to what the real numbers would say about it. But if there's no real information on whether or not they're necessary, that's fine. I'm not trying to argue or anything, just wondering how much information there is on it.

For what it's worth, the Haynes manual for my S-10 (99), suggests in the wiring diagrams in the back, that there aren't any additional relays in the circuit, beyond the normal headlamp relays. But it and the GXP have DRL also, so perhaps the normal circuit is just sufficiently different in that area? The S-10 diagram suggests there are probably 10 amps normally going through the turn signal switch (with a 15 amp fuse); and probably 15 going through the headlight switch itself, with a 20 amp fuse.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #203, 07-14-2010 09:04 PM
      AND... the beautiful thing is that Joe has all of the electrical junk clicking along! It all works!! WOO HOO!!!

Jeff


Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #204, 07-15-2010 01:09 AM
      Got the car back on it's wheels and decided to test the starter before my friend Brian came over with his HP Tuner software and DAM if it didn't start. She ran for 3 seconds and shut down. When Brian got here we were unable to get HP Tuners to talk to the car. Checked all the wiring it all checked out. So Brian called a friend who is a GM Tech. He seems to think that without the High Speed Bus connected to the Data Link Port that we would not be able to talk to the ECM. So a little more wiring tomorrow and I try again.

But the car Starts.

Joe Sokol (Jeff's builder)



Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #205, 07-15-2010 01:29 AM
      Dobey

The reason for the seven relays used to replace the Turn signal/Hazard switch is there are 7 inputs/outputs and 8 contacts in the Fiero column for the Turn/Hazard Switch and the GXP column provides 4 outputs. Look at the Fiero wiring diagrams (NOT Haynes) and you will see how complex that switch is.

Joe Sokol




ManMadeChickens (justinparcher@gmail.com) MSG #206, 07-15-2010 03:55 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fieroking:


Look at the Fiero wiring diagrams (NOT Haynes) and you will see how complex that switch is.




Oh, god... I am fully aware of the validity of that statement! I am wiring up a Fiero race car, and it's column switches were shot. I decided to "just throw them onto a switch panel." That project took the better part of two nights of mapping, and splicing, and another night of tracing the last few issues. Ick... they could have done better in wiring it up I think.

I'll be seeing you all at NWFF again this year. Looking forward to it!



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #207, 07-15-2010 11:44 AM
      Awesome guys, now hurry up and get yer car out of Joe's garage, I need him to build me an exhaust here pretty quick.




dobey MSG #208, 07-15-2010 12:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fieroking:
The reason for the seven relays used to replace the Turn signal/Hazard switch is there are 7 inputs/outputs and 8 contacts in the Fiero column for the Turn/Hazard Switch and the GXP column provides 4 outputs. Look at the Fiero wiring diagrams (NOT Haynes) and you will see how complex that switch is.


I've already ceded that I'll probably end up rewiring the whole car anyway. If I have to start off in that direction, with the wiring for the lights/signals/wipers, I don't have any real qualms with it, aside from having to not drive my car while it's being done, since it's definitely not a 30 minute job. I was just hoping I could make an appropriate harness plug/adapter to just plug it into the existing wiring, for the time being, until I got around to needing to do more complex wiring work (like when I get ready to drop in the LS4).


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #209, 07-16-2010 12:55 AM
      Soon Aaron Soon!! And I will be there for moral support as always!! We are getting sooo close... wait for it...wait for it.... LOL

Jeff


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #210, 07-16-2010 08:15 PM
      WOOO HOO!!!! We made it to the construction zone!!!!! Thanks Cliff!

Jeff


dobey MSG #211, 07-16-2010 09:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

WOOO HOO!!!! We made it to the construction zone!!!!! Thanks Cliff!

Jeff


Yay! I asked for it to be moved over, along with a few others.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #212, 07-16-2010 10:24 PM
      and to you too Dobey!!! She is running now without the VATS killing it... Joe will pipe in for the other LS4 builders i am sure on how he solved the "datalink blues" with HP Tuners...

Can't wait till tomorrow!!

Jeff


Tony Kania MSG #213, 07-16-2010 11:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Can't wait till tomorrow!!

Jeff


I seriously second that.



Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #214, 07-17-2010 01:50 AM
      The big day has happened I started Jeff's car today and drove it to the end of the block and back. I posted a vid at YouTube look at "LS4 First Start". I need to do more work with HP Tuners. But she is Running

Joe Sokol (Jeff's Builder)



dobey MSG #215, 07-17-2010 10:02 AM
      Oh. I also just remembered to ask something else about the column swap. Did you have to do anything special with the u-joint end of the column to mate it to the Fiero steering? I know Rick had to do change some pieces around to get the Malibu column mounted in his car.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #216, 07-17-2010 10:51 AM
      Holy Smokes!!! Listen to her here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ay6j1C7u4


dobey MSG #217, 07-17-2010 12:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Holy Smokes!!! Listen to her here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ay6j1C7u4


Yeah! She sounds mean, doesn't she?


Tony Kania MSG #218, 07-17-2010 01:14 PM
      OMFG! The video just barely shows how cool the push button starter that you installed really is Joe. Can't wait to see her this afternoon.

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #219, 07-17-2010 09:34 PM
      Hi Dobey,

Yes he did have to mix'n'match the universals at the end of the shaft but with minor other mods it drops in nicely. Joe can share what all he had to do... He is busy thinking through an issue we ran into today... We can't seem to get coolant flowing towrs the front... Funny thing is the system has been "mega" burped but the tubes are not getting warm from the front of the engine forward...

Joe is all over it... My simplistic brain says stuck thermostat but with the odd water pump and in/out tube config...well.... heck who knows? I know Joe is at the garage figuring this out as we speak... He has unreal patience... Me? I am like the "dianty little Princess" switches... LOL.... I am all nervous and stuff... He has incredible patience!

Have some neat pics... get them up tomorrow.... Mr. Kania, I have said it before I will say it again... You ROCK! Thanks for the parts run today!!

Later all.... Jeff "


Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #220, 07-18-2010 12:53 AM
      Dobey

To use the GXP steering column you do have to have both intermediate shafts then take both apart and use the end that fits the GXP column mated to the Fiero intermediate, just like Rick did with his Monte Carlo dash install. The GXP steering column has a totally different end. However the universal joints are the same size.

Joe Sokol (Jeff's Builder)



fieroguru MSG #221, 07-18-2010 09:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

He is busy thinking through an issue we ran into today... We can't seem to get coolant flowing towrs the front... Funny thing is the system has been "mega" burped but the tubes are not getting warm from the front of the engine forward...

Joe is all over it... My simplistic brain says stuck thermostat but with the odd water pump and in/out tube config...well.... heck who knows? I know Joe is at the garage figuring this out as we speak...


In Darth's LS4 thread, he had mis-identified the water pump inlet/outlet and later fixed it... might be a good place to start.


dobey MSG #222, 07-18-2010 09:32 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
In Darth's LS4 thread, he had mis-identified the water pump inlet/outlet and later fixed it... might be a good place to start.


I was just about to suggest the same thing.


dratts (dratts2@gmail.com) MSG #223, 07-18-2010 10:25 AM
      I stopped by yesterday and heard Jeff start it up. The posted audio doesn't do it justice. You need to be there. What a sweet sounding exhaust!

dobey MSG #224, 07-18-2010 07:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dratts:

I stopped by yesterday and heard Jeff start it up. The posted audio doesn't do it justice. You need to be there. What a sweet sounding exhaust!


I can't wait to get mine running too, but it's going to be a long and tedious process.

I wonder what it will sound like with a full exhaust system, rather than just dumping through a couple cats out the back. I want it to be somewhat of a sleeper, and sound roughly similar to a stock GT at idle. But she'll sound totally different at about 4K RPM.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #225, 07-18-2010 09:28 PM
      Heh heh... well I will tell you.... to me, I have never heard one sweeter and she is very convincing at 3500 where the ECM limits the rpm when in park! My car won't be a sleeper entirely as I won't be advertising the LS4, with the exception of the low growl and two OEM GXP emblems carefully placed on the car... I loved the sound of Rick's and I think we got there!!! Wooo Hooo! Joe made a lot of progress today... Justin brought over the steering wheel center and from what I here... IT ROCKS... Pics soon...

Aaron, Had a great time today! You are on your way bro.... I expect to hear her running by Wednesday....

Oh and Aaron.... I think my central nervous system is acting up..... it started shorting out on the way home... you OK Bro? You were much closer to the spray than I was...
zorch~zorch..... (a bad day with the semi-aggresive wasps) zorch!!! whoa... left side not working now.... and I have a craving for honey... zorch....

LOL, Jeff


dobey MSG #226, 07-18-2010 10:42 PM
      Hehe. Well, you do have pretty much the exact same exhaust as Rick's. And I can tell from his videos that it is LOUD.

I have been thinking about putting the GXP emblems on mine as well, when it comes to that point. Not sure if I will or not. I'm also thinking of possibly using the GP style fender vents on my car, but not sure how they will look. Everyone and their mother has the T/A vents, so I was thinking of doing something a little different.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #227, 07-19-2010 01:45 PM
      Thanks for your help yesterday Jeff, and I'm beginning to see in honeycomb, is that bad?

Congrats on the first run and the move to the construction zone, Jeff & Joe, hopefully I'll be ready to run soon too..

Joe, I know you've probably though of this, but you want the return pulling from the bottom of the rad, right? So that you're not pulling bubbles into the pump.. Any chance you missed some air and it's cavitating the pump?



dobey MSG #228, 07-19-2010 09:19 PM
      BTW, Joe, did you get my PM about the gauge pod housing?


Tony Kania MSG #229, 07-19-2010 11:34 PM
      Um, yeah. You really need to be next to this thing when she is fired up! Woo wee! I could just press that starter button over, and over again.

You are one lucky guy there Jeff. You deserve it, but you are one lucky guy there Jeff.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #230, 07-20-2010 11:39 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Hehe. Well, you do have pretty much the exact same exhaust as Rick's. And I can tell from his videos that it is LOUD.



Well, It is louder than the stock Fiero. But I would take the capitals out of the text, just to be more accurate Honestly it is not that loud, I have heard 3800SCs louder than this with mufflers on them. I have been thinking of some new video just to shows the sound under different conditions. for example, At a cruse of 60mph and the windows down, I can hardly tell the engine is running.
The camera I used isn't that good and for some reason the exhaust is very pronounced/exaggerated.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #231, 07-20-2010 11:48 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

We can't seem to get coolant flowing towrs the front... Funny thing is the system has been "mega" burped but the tubes are not getting warm from the front of the engine forward...



I may have said this before?, sorry if I sound like a broken record. But just for piece of mind, take a long heater hose and connect the ends to the inlet and outlet on the pump housing. By looping the heater circuit you will "rule out" the heater core flow. If this circuit is allowed to flow unregulated to the heater core you may not get enough to go to the radiator. The heater core will become saturated quickly and over heat the engine.



dobey MSG #232, 07-20-2010 12:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
Well, It is louder than the stock Fiero. But I would take the capitals out of the text, just to be more accurate Honestly it is not that loud, I have heard 3800SCs louder than this with mufflers on them. I have been thinking of some new video just to shows the sound under different conditions. for example, At a cruse of 60mph and the windows down, I can hardly tell the engine is running.
The camera I used isn't that good and for some reason the exhaust is very pronounced/exaggerated.


Hehe. Well in your video, and in the one Joe posted of Jeff's car, the exhaust sounds pretty loud. I don't know if 60mph with windows down is a good example though. I can barely hear the stock radio in my car at that speed with the windows down. Hearing the engine at idle, 2500, and 3500 rpm, in the car, standing next to the taillights, and from 10-15 feet away, would be a better video I think.

It won't change the plans for the exhaust on mine, but it would be good to hear it.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #233, 07-20-2010 01:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Hehe. Well in your video, and in the one Joe posted of Jeff's car, the exhaust sounds pretty loud. I don't know if 60mph with windows down is a good example though. I can barely hear the stock radio in my car at that speed with the windows down. Hearing the engine at idle, 2500, and 3500 rpm, in the car, standing next to the taillights, and from 10-15 feet away, would be a better video I think.

It won't change the plans for the exhaust on mine, but it would be good to hear it.


True, but some type of background noise as a reference would put it in "context" like another car running? Or a radio playing? If the sound of the background noise gets drowned out, then you can capitalize "loud"



Tony Kania MSG #234, 07-20-2010 01:24 PM
      Nice advice on the burping Rick.

Now, about the exaust being LOUD... I would say it is loud, but with an extremely mellow overtone to it. In Joe's garage, while running, we are definately able to carry a conversation. It does not have that raspy drone to it at all. Just a sweet up and down motion of the additional two plugs, that only a V8 can create.


dobey MSG #235, 07-20-2010 02:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
True, but some type of background noise as a reference would put it in "context" like another car running? Or a radio playing? If the sound of the background noise gets drowned out, then you can capitalize "loud"


Perhaps? Maybe you could do it in a parking lot near a main road, where there's fairly busy traffic, but not jammed or such. Probably a better reference than either the windows being down at speed, or radio playing at idle.


dobey MSG #236, 07-20-2010 02:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:
Now, about the exaust being LOUD... I would say it is loud, but with an extremely mellow overtone to it. In Joe's garage, while running, we are definately able to carry a conversation. It does not have that raspy drone to it at all. Just a sweet up and down motion of the additional two plugs, that only a V8 can create.


Maybe. But http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ltEClPCEos and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ay6j1C7u4 sound completely different than blkcofy's car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ECAI-Vr5LE




Tony Kania MSG #237, 07-20-2010 04:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Maybe. But http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ltEClPCEos and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ay6j1C7u4 sound completely different than blkcofy's car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ECAI-Vr5LE



I have a feeling that is do to the fact that it is Dogcreek's car, and not blkcofy's.



dobey MSG #238, 07-20-2010 04:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:
I have a feeling that is do to the fact that it is Dogcreek's car, and not blkcofy's.


Well, blkcofy's car has a muffler now. Jeff and Rick's cars don't.

And you can tell there is a difference. blkcofy said the no-muffler cats only exhaust was too loud, so he had the muffler put in. But my point is that his car is obviously quieter in the videos. I'm just wondering how loud your cars really are.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #239, 07-20-2010 08:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Well, blkcofy's car has a muffler now. Jeff and Rick's cars don't.

And you can tell there is a difference. blkcofy said the no-muffler cats only exhaust was too loud, so he had the muffler put in. But my point is that his car is obviously quieter in the videos. I'm just wondering how loud your cars really are.


Why don't you stop wondering, build yours, and find out?


dobey MSG #240, 07-20-2010 09:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:
Why don't you stop wondering, build yours, and find out?


If I had all the necessary parts, and money, etc... to have it done already, I would have it done already.

But I don't, so it's going to take time.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #241, 07-20-2010 09:09 PM
      Well now Fella's,

In all seriousness, why don't we do this.... I was an audio engineer for many years, and still have some very high end portable recording equipment. When we are done with the car, I will be glad to record under controlled circumstances, a sound set from my LS4 car, Joe's 4.9, Joe's 3.4DOHC, Tony's 3.1 and Aarons 3800 NA. In fact, I could even drag my recording setup to FieroFest and get even more samples from more cars.... Maybe do a "Fiero Sounds CD."

Equal time samples, Precise and benchmarked input control, flat samples, same microphones, same microphone placement, distances and ambient environment. A 96k sample each at warm idle, 2000 rpm and 3500 rpm. Under these conditions it will give us all a good idea of what each car sounds like. Maybe post the samples in a thread so the forum can get a rough idea of what each may sound like.

What it won't do is account for the myriad of sounds possible with each cars individual characteristics such as...exhaust setup, tune, idle speed, intake diffences etc... also, and more important, what each owner likes/dislikes about their exhaust note...

So since the sound is in the "ear of the beholder" .... I have to say that my car is not "loud" by my standards... I remember telling Joe a while back when we talked about the exhaust setup that I wanted mine to sound like Rick's... I loved the sound from his video and even think I sent him a PM or posted about it. And so, with that in mind, Joe did a custom setup with the two cats that comes dang close... I hope some day Rick and I can get our cars side-by-side to compare... LOL... His inspired me to seek out exactly what I wanted and got! I love the sound of my car!!!

So what do you guys say? A benchmark sound scape of Fiero's of all stripes? I am in and it would be fun!!! Now let me get my "pistol shooting" ear protection on so I can go out and watch the nieghbor kid drive off in his "cherry bombed" V6 Camaro.... Good times... Good times.... His drive-aways are good for clearing sinuses, causing leafs to come off trees and for scaring the occasional nieghborhood bear... LOL

P.S. I really am glad that you guys are participating in my build thread!! It has made this build a whole lot more fun!!

Jeff




dobey MSG #242, 07-20-2010 09:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:
P.S. I really am glad that you guys are participating in my build thread!! It has made this build a whole lot more fun!!


Haha. I don't think we need all that work. I was just saying that on the videos your two cars (yours and Rick's) seem quite loud. Mine will sound pretty different, since it will actually have a full Fiero-style exhaust system on it.

I wish more people would comment in my thread. It seems like any real discussion about my build always happens somewhere else, and I feel like nobody really cares about 'yet another ls4 build' as it seems.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #243, 07-21-2010 03:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Well now Fella's,

In all seriousness, why don't we do this.... I was an audio engineer for many years, and still have some very high end portable recording equipment. When we are done with the car, I will be glad to record under controlled circumstances, a sound set from my LS4 car, Joe's 4.9, Joe's 3.4DOHC, Tony's 3.1 and Aarons 3800 NA. In fact, I could even drag my recording setup to FieroFest and get even more samples from more cars.... Maybe do a "Fiero Sounds CD."

Equal time samples, Precise and benchmarked input control, flat samples, same microphones, same microphone placement, distances and ambient environment. A 96k sample each at warm idle, 2000 rpm and 3500 rpm. Under these conditions it will give us all a good idea of what each car sounds like. Maybe post the samples in a thread so the forum can get a rough idea of what each may sound like.

What it won't do is account for the myriad of sounds possible with each cars individual characteristics such as...exhaust setup, tune, idle speed, intake diffences etc... also, and more important, what each owner likes/dislikes about their exhaust note...

So since the sound is in the "ear of the beholder" .... I have to say that my car is not "loud" by my standards... I remember telling Joe a while back when we talked about the exhaust setup that I wanted mine to sound like Rick's... I loved the sound from his video and even think I sent him a PM or posted about it. And so, with that in mind, Joe did a custom setup with the two cats that comes dang close... I hope some day Rick and I can get our cars side-by-side to compare... LOL... His inspired me to seek out exactly what I wanted and got! I love the sound of my car!!!

So what do you guys say? A benchmark sound scape of Fiero's of all stripes? I am in and it would be fun!!! Now let me get my "pistol shooting" ear protection on so I can go out and watch the nieghbor kid drive off in his "cherry bombed" V6 Camaro.... Good times... Good times.... His drive-aways are good for clearing sinuses, causing leafs to come off trees and for scaring the occasional nieghborhood bear... LOL

P.S. I really am glad that you guys are participating in my build thread!! It has made this build a whole lot more fun!!

Jeff




I would love to get the cars together. BUT I don't think I will make the Show. I did really want to be there and tossed around the idea but I am one of the "economy victims".
How much more time till the show?

Maybe we could gather in the middle? Northern CA?




fieroguru MSG #244, 07-21-2010 07:21 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

I wish more people would comment in my thread. It seems like any real discussion about my build always happens somewhere else, and I feel like nobody really cares about 'yet another ls4 build' as it seems.


I have been watching it.... one significant challange is the thread title... no one knows it is an LS4 swap until they open it and long term if anyone searched by LS4 in the title it will not be included.


JPH87 (jphofeldt@msn.com) MSG #245, 07-21-2010 02:29 PM
      I can't help but chime in on the sound debate. First Jeff's car sounds really good to me, in person it has a strong low tone to it. It is not over the top at all. In my opinion if you are going to take the time and the money to do a v-8 swap you should be able to here it if you don't like that maybe you should be the first to swap in a prius drive train haha. As for myself I will swap in an LS4 in the sping with a little help from my freinds in the northwest.
P.S. Jeff I should be done with the steering wheel cover by this weekend just working out mounting the horn buttons.


dobey MSG #246, 07-21-2010 03:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
I have been watching it.... one significant challange is the thread title... no one knows it is an LS4 swap until they open it and long term if anyone searched by LS4 in the title it will not be included.


Yeah. It was late at night when I started it, and my brain was slowing down, so I didn't think to put "LS4 F40 etc.." stuff in the title, because it's not just an LS4 swap thread. It'll end up being a pretty much total rebuild of the car. And I couldn't think of a catchy name like "Perfect Union" or anything at the moment, so I figured "Nameless" would fit.


Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #247, 07-23-2010 12:45 AM
      Just a quick update. I finally got all the gauges working and coolant flowing to the radiator. So tomorrow it off to get the alignment done. Then I'll put the rest of the body and interior parts back on the car. So hopefully she is basically DONE. Just need to drive it a bit to check that everything is working correctly. Pictures to follow.

Joe Sokol (Jeff's Builder)



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #248, 07-23-2010 10:02 PM
      All I can say is OMG!! I drove it for the first time and it is amazing... The pull from a start is incredible and I was gently just getting used to her... WOW!! all I can say is WOW!! A few pics later tonight... What a difference in the steering and brakes as well... Joe is working with the VSS and ECM stuff a little working out a couple of kinks but it is still WOW... OK enough of that....

Jeff (sporting a perma-grin)



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #249, 07-23-2010 11:13 PM
      Hey, when do we get rides??!?!?!

That thing's gotta be better than disneyland..


rcp builders MSG #250, 07-23-2010 11:38 PM
      Congratulations, very happy for you. I know its is a huge relief when you
get a project completed. Great job fieroking and all others who helped.


TiredGXP MSG #251, 07-23-2010 11:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

All I can say is OMG!! I drove it for the first time and it is amazing... The pull from a start is incredible and I was gently just getting used to her... WOW!! all I can say is WOW!! A few pics later tonight... What a difference in the steering and brakes as well... Joe is working with the VSS and ECM stuff a little working out a couple of kinks but it is still WOW... OK enough of that....

Jeff (sporting a perma-grin)



I take it that you're "moderatly pleased" with the torque this little V8 puts out...


ManMadeChickens (justinparcher@gmail.com) MSG #252, 07-24-2010 05:00 AM
      I'm so wanting a ride in Richland. Well done all, it really come together well from what I can see in the pictures and description.

dobey MSG #253, 07-24-2010 12:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:
All I can say is OMG!! I drove it for the first time and it is amazing... The pull from a start is incredible and I was gently just getting used to her... WOW!! all I can say is WOW!! A few pics later tonight... What a difference in the steering and brakes as well... Joe is working with the VSS and ECM stuff a little working out a couple of kinks but it is still WOW... OK enough of that....

Jeff (sporting a perma-grin)


Congrats! Are you going to put a traction control button in the car, or just keep it always enabled, or always disabled in the ECM?


Tony Kania MSG #254, 07-24-2010 01:55 PM
      Everyone is going to want a ride in Richland! Your Fiero will be like a hot girl in a kiss'n booth. Swing on by when you are bringing her home. I will be locked into my remodeling job. Great job guys.

Traction control? Jeff uses his right foot to monitor rear tire traction.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 07-24-2010).]

dobey MSG #255, 07-24-2010 02:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:
Traction control? Jeff uses his right foot to monitor rear tire traction.


Yes, but the LS4 programming has built-in control that automatically dethrottles under tire spin. Of course, I don't know what all happens if the sensors aren't there, etc…

I would like to know though.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #256, 07-24-2010 02:22 PM
      Well I am on the run this morning to Wenatchee to a birthday party... Here are some of the latest pics showing Justin's work on the steering wheel cover, notfinished in this pic, just test fitting. And of course Joe's work on everything else...! The engine bay, a rear view etc... I will be back tomorrow!! Have a nice weekend.. Jeff













All for now..... Jeff (still grinning)

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-07-2012).]

dobey MSG #257, 07-24-2010 02:47 PM
      That is an interesting looking engine cover!


Tony Kania MSG #258, 07-24-2010 04:23 PM
      Very nice touch on the cover. Especially the "Powertrain Conversion by FieroKing Customs!"

"And if ya don't know, Now ya know..."


helmet1978 (helmet@raceme.cc) MSG #259, 07-24-2010 09:40 PM
      Damn, now I'm going to have to drop to a 3.4" pulley or risk being the 2nd fastest car at NW Fiero Fest

Awesome work everyone, I wish our club members were as active and excited to help as you all. The E. Washington/N. Idaho club has literally risen from the ashes in the last few years and are threatening to knock out the mighty Jet City Fieros for club participation. I applaud all your efforts Joe, Aaron, Tony and Jeff...you guys rock!



Tony Kania MSG #260, 07-25-2010 12:49 PM
      Paul, I think the best thing about our "club", is that it really isn't a "club". Everyone just wants to hang out. We have a group that includes our significant others, and is really family orientated. It is just a good mix in the kettle here.

exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #261, 07-25-2010 01:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:

Paul, I think the best thing about our "club", is that it really isn't a "club". Everyone just wants to hang out. We have a group that includes our significant others, and is really family orientated. It is just a good mix in the kettle here.


Sounds just like Central Florida Fieros,..just a bunch of guys who just like hanging out talking about cars and fieros. No Presidents, no gavels, and no bylaws hehehe, and amazingly we still are able to get stuff done.


Isolde MSG #262, 07-27-2010 01:33 AM
      Just wanted to say I'm still watching.

Tony Kania MSG #263, 07-27-2010 01:17 PM
      Yeah, what is going on. It has been days, and i need my LS4 fix! Don't forget Jeff, you MUST stop by for a photo opp on your way home.

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #264, 07-27-2010 09:00 PM
      Hi Isolde, Tony, Paul and other watchers...

We are getting close to bringing her home! Joe has a couple of minor things he is tweaking.... I will definetly bring her by Tony,,, Isolde, good to hear from you!

Jeff

Wooo HOO!! 200 posts

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 07-28-2010).]

josef644 (josef644@hotmail.com) MSG #265, 07-27-2010 10:51 PM
      Wonderful job. I have jsut spent the past 2 hours reading all of this build. Great , just great.

Isolde MSG #266, 07-28-2010 08:01 PM
      The anticipation must be at a fever pitch. I really wish I could live up there, your club sounds great! And the pics speak for themselves, this will soon be the most excellent car on the Pacific Coast Highway, bar none!

Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #267, 07-29-2010 01:09 AM
      SO she is done other than the Steering wheel center and adjusting the Speedo. I drove the car around town in 92 degree heat. No overheating issues no leeks.
As to the noise levels. First let me say that I used Magnaflow cat's for this build. They are almost twice the size of those used by DarthFiero in Blkcofy's build. I found the noise levels to be very low even under power. The only thing I found a bit irritating was she droned a bit when sitting at a light in gear and even that wasn't that bad.

I'll wait for Jeff to add his impression of the noise levels when he gets his car back this weekend.

Joe Sokol (Jeff's builder)



dobey MSG #268, 07-29-2010 02:36 PM
      The noise is probably nowhere near as annoying as the S2000 I just rode in. Loudest ricer exhaust you could probably get. And even in the passenger seat, it felt like I was sitting in a bumper car.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #269, 07-29-2010 08:43 PM
      Hi ExoticSE, Josef644 and Isolde!! And thanks for the update Joe... and Dobey thanks for the S2000 info... That car must have had a fart can on it?

Aaron made a little progress last night.... got his clutch cylinder installed and it is so smooth! Like glass.... and No frickin bee's!!!!

So, back to the car.....Woo Hoo!!! Glad she is almost home....and I bet Joe will be dang glad to have his garage back!!!!! anticipation.... anticipation... (sung to the Carly Simon tune....) All together now.... a 1...a 2... a 3

Can hardly wait!

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 07-29-2010).]

dobey MSG #270, 07-30-2010 09:49 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:
Dobey thanks for the S2000 info... That car must have had a fart can on it?


I think the exhaust was bolted directly to the body or something. It sounded like the whole car was vibrating. And it smelled like it was burning oil. The cars look nice on the outside, but wow are the horrible. And the interior makes you want to punch someone. People complain about the GM interiors all the time, but even the base Vette with crappy plastic pieces would feel better than the S2000.


Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #271, 07-31-2010 12:05 AM
      So a little update. Jeff was over today and we when for a drive. Pulling out of Shuck's he left about 20 feet of rubber on the road. Damn the car is fast and I haven't turned off the Abuse Mode settings yet. Did have one hiccup however. I was driving back from my buddies shop (went to show him the car and get his laptop with HP Tuners t), on the way back cruising along in the fast lane when no power! Turns out the fuel pump gets noisy when it gets down to about a third of a tank, and with the increase in pressure that I dialed in, the pump over heated and shut down. After it cooled down I was able to get it off the freeway and it happened again. This time Justin ( my fiber glass guy and fellow Fiero enthusiast) came to my rescue with a couple of gallons of fuel. That quieted the the pump down and I was able to make it home. So tomorrow a new Corvette fuel pump is going in.

Joe Sokol (Jeff's Builder)



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #272, 07-31-2010 02:47 AM
      Joe I am so sorry I had to go right when it croaked at the light... I will explain in the am... Justin, first off, thanks for saving Joe and the Porvett...and second, The wheel cover is beautiful... Joe did a dam fine job painting it too...

Catch you guys tomorrow....

Jeff


Isolde MSG #273, 07-31-2010 09:39 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fieroking:

So a little update. Jeff was over today and we when for a drive. Pulling out of Shuck's he left about 20 feet of rubber on the road. Damn the car is fast and I haven't turned off the Abuse Mode settings yet. Did have one hiccup however. I was driving back from my buddies shop (went to show him the car and get his laptop with HP Tuners t), on the way back cruising along in the fast lane when no power! Turns out the fuel pump gets noisy when it gets down to about a third of a tank, and with the increase in pressure that I dialed in, the pump over heated and shut down. After it cooled down I was able to get it off the freeway and it happened again. This time Justin ( my fiber glass guy and fellow Fiero enthusiast) came to my rescue with a couple of gallons of fuel. That quieted the the pump down and I was able to make it home. So tomorrow a new Corvette fuel pump is going in.

Joe Sokol (Jeff's Builder)




there are ALWAYS bugs to be WORKED out :-)


mrbeef (jje46m3@yahoo.com) MSG #274, 07-31-2010 06:03 PM
      Looking great i cant wait to be home here are some Pics of my car it is a 06 SS Sc 2.85 pulley Header DP Exhaust should be 265 HP to the tires







dobey MSG #275, 08-01-2010 07:55 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrbeef:
Looking great i cant wait to be home here are some Pics of my car it is a 06 SS Sc 2.85 pulley Header DP Exhaust should be 265 HP to the tires


Nice car, but I don't know if you noticed, this is a Fiero forum, and this thread is about an LS4 V8 being swapped into one.

Where in VA are you btw?


FIEROPHREK MSG #276, 08-01-2010 08:16 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrbeef



No J-bodies allowed !

just kidding mang! you might want to replace those vacuum lines though.



mrbeef (jje46m3@yahoo.com) MSG #277, 08-01-2010 11:39 AM
      hey now i use to be huge into fiero's me and my dad Fieroking built his 4.9 car and i helped him with the DOHC car too i just wanted to share my new car.. i will be coming home to go to fiero fest.

Tony Kania MSG #278, 08-01-2010 12:16 PM
      Mrbeef! Hello there. Said hi to you last year, and spoke a bit at Fierofest. Your folks are great people. Your Mom is such an uplifting spirit. I don't believe that there is anyone on earth that she couldn't make smile. Amy and I are truely blessed to have friends like them, and to be involved in such a Fiero awakening here in the Inland Northwest. Also, thanks for your service to this country. You keep us eating at the kitchen table soldier.

Now, onto your Cobalt... looking slick. I bet that yu are like Pops when it comes to tinkering? I could recognize that rear wing anywhere. Anyhow, I we will see you in Richland. If not sooner. You need to take me for a ride in your "silver" car. All your Dad wants to do is talk **** , and work on Fieros. Does he ever drive his?


mrbeef (jje46m3@yahoo.com) MSG #279, 08-01-2010 02:26 PM
      i really dont think he does drive his.. LOL not much new here i rember you tony you have a burgundy GT. I will probley see you before then since my dad has another secret project before fiero fest. and i did learn all my skills from my dad and fiero are the cars that i learned on. I am sure glad for it tho i saved my self a lot of money doing all the work to my cobalt.

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #280, 08-01-2010 02:31 PM
      Car looks great Joe 3!!

Your folks are really looking forward to you getting home! Look forward to seeing you... You car looks sweet!

Jeff


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #281, 08-01-2010 07:44 PM
      MUAHAHAHA. I own page 8 as well!

Ok Jeff, here's a little showoff material for ya..

Stacey and I stopped by Joe's house on our way back from the cabin for a free ride in your new car, and I grabbed some video on my droid so people can see what it sounds like. Obviously this isn't PRO audio gear, but the droid does pretty darn well with video, so without further ado:
Note, click and watch at 480p, sound quality is much better. Also, if you click the video, you can watch full screen.

Take-off at medium throttle:



2 Drive-by's just cruising:



Joe and Jeff, thanks for the rides. VERY fun. It just pins you in the seat and holds you there.





dobey MSG #282, 08-01-2010 09:52 PM
      Nice! I'll go be angry at this crank bolt some more. At least my cam, springs, and lifters are on their way. Hopefully I can make some more progress soon.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #283, 08-01-2010 11:57 PM
      SWEET FANCY MOSES!!! Those were totally cool vids.... I can see Stacey smiling in the second one.... Glad you guys got a chance to sample Porvett's new personality!! The sound of her gives me goose bumps!!

So now we just need to get Aaron and the 3.4 ready... I am available every night but wednesday bro so call me 570-3764 or at the house... 747-4826... I can come over any night you need... let's get her there!!! "PLASTIC" needs to ride !!!

Cool vids guys!!

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 08-02-2010).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #284, 08-02-2010 02:41 AM
      Hey, don't short me on displacement, it may not be a 5.3, but it is a 3.8l, not a 3.4..
My last one was a 3.4..


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #285, 08-02-2010 09:57 AM
      LOL... I meant your 3800 and the 3.4 silver car of Joe's...

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #286, 08-02-2010 01:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrbeef:


Awww, how cute! A duke on crack!


mrbeef (jje46m3@yahoo.com) MSG #287, 08-02-2010 06:15 PM
      if 17 lbs of boost is it's crack, it would give your 3800 a scare.... LOL

[This message has been edited by mrbeef (edited 08-02-2010).]

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #288, 08-02-2010 07:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrbeef:

if 17 lbs of boost is it's crack, it would give your 3800 a scare.... LOL



*cough* FWD *cough*.

Besides, mine is the motor YOU built..


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #289, 08-04-2010 08:32 PM
      She is coming home tonight!!! Woo Hoo!!! Pics of the great event later!

Jeff


Tony Kania MSG #290, 08-04-2010 11:54 PM
     








Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #291, 08-05-2010 01:12 AM
      Tony...you da man.... Thanks for the ride there and the "shake-down" cruise getting home.... These two old girls got a lot of looks on the freeway including a couple of grinning "thumbs up!"

She ran great Joe!! Gave Karla a ride and of course had to do the first pedal to floor with her in it... OMG!!!! Incredible... and of course the bride being the trooper that she is made me do it again...and again.... She likes it!! (fast acceleration that is)

Enough for tonight... I am pleased and still grinning.... Wow!

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-06-2012).]

Tony Kania MSG #292, 08-05-2010 01:05 PM
      Man, did I need food last night! Amy made a b-fast sandwich about 10 am, then nothing all day. I did not complain, but was seeing stars when I got home. Really happy that you went straight, and I turned down my block. Bu, still waiting for a ride in her.

She really does turn heads! For me, it is a lot of fun to get the stares. Nice to have folks give thumbs up, then see the passenger notice your Fiero, and the obligatory speed up to see yours.


dobey MSG #293, 08-05-2010 01:22 PM
      Well, I guess I really need to get mine running now. Hopefully I'll make some good progress on cleaning my garage out to make room for the parts car, and getting the engine block, crank, and pistons cleaned up and re-assembled this weekend. I've got a nice new 58x reluctor wheel waiting to go on my crank.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #294, 08-10-2010 12:57 AM
      Alright Fiero Voyeurs....... She is home, happy and hot as hades!!!!

Tony gave me a ride to Joe's and I really appreciate it as well as the pep his sexy and beautiful 87 3.1 provided!! Tony... You da man (again)

We get to Joe and Anne's and here is a nice lineup... 4 of the INW's finest!



also shown......the five of us, including Joe, Joe 3, Tony and the vivacious "Ms Anne" talking "Fiero" before the 40 mile drive home! And of course, Tony's 87 front and center...



I have always been an "Axx" man so here is the "money shot" before her drive home....



I want to thank Mike for the great deal on the "Corvette" light panel...... And next..... I arrive home... My best friend, Buns, is not impressed......



So... I drive into the garage.... and here she is...... In all her glory... I introduce the "Fiero King Customs, Porvett."



So... I got to work.... Putting newly painted stuff in to match the the Beautiful steering wheel cover Justin made and Joe painted... Hard acts to follow if I do say so...



And a better view....... Coming soon, Mr. Mikes Navy Blue leathers.... and carpet... and..... well a whole lot of other stuff.....



And last... my best friend... is he impressed? No.... not really.... he sniffed the car... recognized Tucks, Mimi and Lilly and then went back to his "command center." The names are Joe and Anne's awesome pups..... Bun's is used to them by now...



We are off to FieroFest in Richland this weekend!!! Looking forward to seeing all of our friends!!!! A more comprehensive LS4 build story is coming soon....

Joe Sokol.... YOU ROCK!!! ...You did a SUPER JOB on my car!!!! .....as well, a thanks to all the guys from the INW club who helped, advised, built, scrubbed or otherwise helped on this build!!!

And of course to the fans of this thread..... I appreciate your comments and thoughts.. More soon... "the thread is not dead!"

Thanks to all.....Jeff (Dogcreek)

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-07-2012).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #295, 02-21-2011 09:30 PM
      Coming soon... the 1100 mile mark!

Details of how "Porvett has done since the build was completed, the fun we have had since and why I love this car!! Also, some tidbits...

Passing WA States new "CARB" adopted swap rules (yes, she passed with flying colors! Never to ever be smogged again!)


New badging...

A Hagerty Policy....saves me a load over Allstate..

and... last... the new black carpet... oops... and stereo....

More to come.... BTW, Joe is doing an awesome job and nearing the "downhill stretch" on DRATTS Turbo LS4 Merci kit car.... OMG!!! I keep goading Don to post pics!! This is really something!

Jeff



Sourmug MSG #296, 02-22-2011 02:49 PM
      Glad to hear that you are enjoying the car.

New badging! New seats! Let's see 'um.

Nolan


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #297, 02-22-2011 11:00 PM
      Hey Nolan!!

Great to hear from you!!... Joe is chomping at the bit to get you going... And pics? Oh yeah... Pic's...they will be a 'comin' ... I drooled all over your motor... but it will clean up nice!! Heh heh!!

Jeff (listening to a great Jack Johnson CD)



Tony Kania MSG #298, 06-06-2011 11:40 PM
      Jeff has worked on his car all winter, and his attention to detail is pilot like. Now, where are the Mr. Mike's seat pics dag nabbit!

Tony


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #299, 07-01-2011 11:02 PM
      OK.... finally some pics.

These are the Mr. Mikes all cloth "SemiSport" model in Black and medium gray. They were very easy to install following his instructions and we were able to build up the seat bolsters as he described and WOW what a difference! Thanks to Greg for the use of his shop and his toe. He knows what I mean... And to Tony who came just in time as our "hog-ring" hands were failing.

So.... here they are!



Car view.... and my youngest Dave...




Later!


Jeff



Sourmug MSG #300, 07-02-2011 01:21 AM
      Nice pics, she's looking great!!

Nolan


dratts (dratts2@gmail.com) MSG #301, 07-02-2011 12:31 PM
      Seats look great Jeff! Is it easier to avoid the occasional wrinkle that I see in leather/vinyl covers when you use fabric? I like the LS4 performance label.

fierocarparts (doyouneedparts@yahoo.com) MSG #302, 12-05-2011 07:49 PM
      Any 1/4 mile times?

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #303, 02-13-2012 08:23 PM
      Hi guys... Villagephotos, my photo storage site, bit the big one.. I have all the pics and I have another storage site... Working on getting them back up.

Jeff


ricreatr MSG #304, 02-14-2012 07:56 PM
      yayyyy!

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #305, 04-04-2012 10:34 PM
      Wow! What a lot of work this was but.... I recovered, categorized, renamed and FTP'd all of the pics from the build and they will be coming up slowly over the next few days... My own storage this time..Thanks for the patience... Actually have some new stuff to add as well...

Jeff


Sourmug MSG #306, 04-05-2012 01:25 PM
      What! Not done yet.... What the...




Nolan


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #307, 04-06-2012 08:07 PM
      Hi Nolan!! Yeah, this has been time consuming alright... sheeesh... never again. I am hosting my own pics... 2.5 pages done... 5.5 pages to go....

A few "new" things... A new in the box, GM factory spoiler with LED from a "late model car..." (build in progress.. Guesses anyone?) ...and all Black floor and trunk carpet.... and a secret....

Please let the weather change...

Jeff



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #308, 04-07-2012 12:40 PM
      2.5 pages to go........



DPoppelll (danpoppell@att.net) MSG #309, 04-07-2012 01:07 PM
      Wow. I'm glad you bumped this thread because that was an amazing read. It was like getting into a great TV show that's just gone off the air; I want more!

Great car, dude. And great friends too.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #310, 04-07-2012 01:53 PM
      The build thread is restored and my what a pain in the azz that was... I will be posting again in this as a lot has changed and the build is still ongoing.. The swap has given me -zero- trouble and more than 2500 miles of driving joy! I will add the last three projects.. just need to take some pics.

DPoppelll, Thanks for the kind words... I am glad this isn't over yet.. Is any Fiero project really ever "over?" Coming is the "under-hood vent system," the stereo build and the latest and currently underway "spoiler" project. Thanks everyone for the advice, thoughts and for cheering this on.

Jeff



dobey MSG #311, 04-07-2012 06:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:
A few "new" things... A new in the box, GM factory spoiler with LED from a "late model car..." (build in progress.. Guesses anyone?) ...and all Black floor and trunk carpet.... and a secret....


If "late model car" means "current model year," then the only 3 options I can see that would look good on a Fiero, with a bit of work, are from the Corvette, Camaro, or Volt. If "late model" means "made within the last 10 years," then there are probably a few more options, Though the 4th gen Camaro/Firebird spoilers wouldn't look very good.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #312, 04-07-2012 09:06 PM
      Shoot Dobey... it is a 4th gen Camaro/Firebird... Dang it.... I think it looks good..... NOT... LOL it is not one.. Have no idea at the moment what they even look like.. However, it is made by GM and it is off a Pontiac.... That is the only hint for now and no it is not a Grand Am of any year... Could it be off an Aztec? hmmmmm?

When I said "late model" by my definition that means from 2004 and up.... (a hint as well) ....ohhh, and it has a factory LED stop lamp built in..

oh...Tony... I went in and found the tabs immediately.. today has been my lucky day in a number of ways!! I have had them for 4 months!!! Remember what I was saying about "CRS" syndrome.... Yikes... Can't remember "s**t"

Jeff


DPoppelll (danpoppell@att.net) MSG #313, 04-07-2012 11:15 PM
      I think either a firebird instrument cluster with a custom gague face or a Tom's digital cluster with blue LEDs would look awesome with the dark blue interior. Probably Tom's since it looks like you're trying to blend the stock look with your own style. Either way, would be cool.

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #314, 04-08-2012 08:00 PM
      DPoppelll, you read my mind.... I'm not doing the Firebird Dash... but....

The blue is almost gone using Tom's smoked lexan fascia's... It made a huge difference.... I am going all black interior, next is the carpet... and a couple of other tweaks... We might have the same taste in interiors.. The blue got to me very quickly... out it went...



Those are not cracks in the shifter bezel.. a reflection of the antenna and something in the garage. Forgive the camera phone pics...



I built the shift cover with a brush set Joe snagged at the pick*n*pull. Fabbed a housing using diamond plate and and an automatic cover out of something... Cut the hole to work with the new tap shift settings, and off she goes... Way better than than the old boot which had a tendency to "bunch up" when pulled back to manual mode.

Made a shift pattern plate that you can just make out here.



The other thing I did last Spring was create a under hood vent ~versus~ an extractor through the hood... Just my personal taste but it is very functional and very effective. I lost the spare tire, protected the front mount battery and gained enough space to put a small gym bag and small carry~on suitcase. Used Specter parts including the "Flex Hose" (so be gentle.. it is NOT a dryer hose.. )



My new "spare tire"



This actually works very nicely. It is vented out of the RT front wheel well.... Powered only by the cooling fan it will actually "kick up dust" or warm muffins on a cold morning...



So that is it for now... The spoiler project is going very well... Pictures soon. Thanks for your help and company yesterday Tony....

Jeff




Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #315, 04-10-2012 12:12 PM
      Have you cut holes beside the head lights to vent the front? This mod is a VERY good one and should have been a factory system. Before I did the mod, my light covers would bounce up at 55mph if a semi drove by in the other direction. After the mod my light covers wont move at all unless the lights are turnd on.

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #316, 04-10-2012 08:09 PM
      Hi Rick,

Nope... no holes by the lights... I did have the same issue with jumping lights once at over 90 which promptly scared the heck out of me... This should do the trick I think

Jeff


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #317, 04-11-2012 01:42 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Hi Rick,

Nope... no holes by the lights... I did have the same issue with jumping lights once at over 90 which promptly scared the heck out of me... This should do the trick I think

Jeff


Yes it should, but you would affectivly have two of those tubes. One on each side that vent under the fender and back. You just wont see the holes and there are no need for the pipe.
Have you had a problem with over heating?
Does your AC work?

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 04-11-2012).]

Tony Kania MSG #318, 04-11-2012 02:14 PM
      What a car! Just to hear that LS4 burble is an amazing feeling. It sounds like an old Chrysler boat.

It was fun hanging out in your garage on Easter. I can't wait to see the pics of the new mod.

The underhood extractor that Jeff made up is extremely functional. The air that exits just behind the front wheel is impressive. It really is a great mod if you want to keep the factory appearing hood. All parts used are Spectra, and is not just some Home Depot dryer vent. Nice job Dogcreek.

Tony


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #319, 04-13-2012 10:54 PM
      Thanks Tony... Planning on some serious weekend headway on the spoiler project... and by the way.. Karla came up and stole the dryer vent off the car

Oh...and Rick, to answer your question on overheating... nope not once... This runs at factory temps with zero issues.. I did this solely to vent the cavity..

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-13-2012).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #320, 04-14-2012 09:56 PM
      Making headway with the spoiler project... anyone ever use "dolphin" glaze as a finish coat on top of a thin bondo fill? Had a couple of air bubbles pop in the last coat as I kneaded the bondo instead of swilling it... Sort of like my Rye and gummy bears... Don't ask...

Anyway... like to know what you think of the dolphin brand...

Jeff



DPoppelll (danpoppell@att.net) MSG #321, 04-14-2012 10:18 PM
      sweet page 9 belongs to this dude!

have you dyno-ed the car since the engine swap was finished? Or perhaps have you done a more.... home-style approach (certainly not speeding on the freeway to see how fast you can take your car, no I'd never do that.)

[This message has been edited by DPoppelll (edited 04-15-2012).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #322, 04-14-2012 11:03 PM
      Hello again DPoppelll! (What me speed on the freeway? No Way! I am like you...)

Not dyno~ed at this point. Joe and I talked about adding some HP with a cam etc but we ended up focusing on the build of the entire car not so much the engine... Thus, when people ask I tell them 303HP which is what the GXP came out with factory.

I would have to say there may have been an HP gain with the short run CAT only exhaust system as well as a better than factory air intake that Joe fabricated. One thing I will say is that the HP is most satisfactory for my style which is "zero to seventy-two" as fast as it can get there. It slams you in the seat and you stay there!! LOL. The car has incredible torque and pulls like crazy at all speeds... Plus delivering 27-29 on the highway solid. It will roast the tires at 20mph with a slam on the pedal and yet is well behaved from a standing start. I will eventually get the dyno numbers... But before I do I may add a Cam, turn off DOD and have Joe do his magic with HP tuners...

This setup lopes along at 1850 rpm at 70 mph and has a unique feeling when you push the gas down hard to pass at that speed. It just flat out goes!!! Though I have no proof, It seems like it grabs about 90 mph in two or three seconds...

I would have to say that I am very partial to everything about the LS4 as it reminds me in many ways of every good car I have had in the past... PLUS handling like a go cart! (TA, GTO, and 61 Impala...)

If I had it to do over again I would do exactly the same thing... The reliability has been awesome as well...

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 04-14-2012).]

DPoppelll (danpoppell@att.net) MSG #323, 04-15-2012 05:43 PM
      That just sounds like.... wow. I almost hate you for making me need that engine now! Where did you get it? ALSO what modifications needed to be done to the engine bay to fit that beast?

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #324, 04-15-2012 08:17 PM
      Hi

Got it from Morad Motors... a 2007 GXP package with tap shift transmission. They sold me the engine, tranny, computers and wiring as a package. They can be found on Ebay by searching "Morad Motors." As far as engine bay mods, very little.. The cradle that we used was an 88 and going to my 86 car needed little. Just a couple of minor mods to fit the placement such as an small cove for the oil filter and for the idler tensioner for the serpentine belt. That was it.

The column came from a 2008 GXP sourced locally. Hope that helped

Jeff


DPoppelll (danpoppell@att.net) MSG #325, 04-16-2012 07:59 PM
      It did, thanks.

EDIT:
I did some google-ing on the GXP and damn, that car has some cool stuff with it.

any updates?

[This message has been edited by DPoppelll (edited 04-19-2012).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #326, 04-26-2012 11:00 PM
      Update:

The spoiler project is nearly done.... drum roll please..... OK... the spoiler is from a 2004 Grand Prix.... WHAT? Stuck with the GP theme as most of the important stuff in this this car is from one... Engine, tranny, column, computers wiring etc...Found a NOS in a box with the LED stop light. So off I went...

Yes... you heard right... Now, whether or not anyone can picture it ..that is another story.... :-) It took a bit of fabricating and such but I think it looks pretty cool. Have a full set of build pics.. Installing the final product this weekend then I will post the pics... think "whale tail" Pontiac style...

Jeff


Sourmug MSG #327, 04-27-2012 12:19 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Update:

The spoiler project is nearly done.... drum roll please..... OK... the spoiler is from a 2004 Grand Prix.... WHAT? Stuck with the GP theme as most of the important stuff in this this car is from one... Engine, tranny, column, computers wiring etc...Found a NOS in a box with the LED stop light. So off I went...

Yes... you heard right... Now, whether or not anyone can picture it ..that is another story.... :-) It took a bit of fabricating and such but I think it looks pretty cool. Have a full set of build pics.. Installing the final product this weekend then I will post the pics... think "whale tail" Pontiac style...

Jeff


What the...

you can`t just say: "Now, whether or not anyone can picture it" and then not post picutres.

What are you thinking man!


Nolan

[This message has been edited by Sourmug (edited 04-27-2012).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #328, 04-27-2012 12:28 AM
      Hi Nolan... I am such a dang tease.... LOL... Pics soon my friend... You and Barb coming down to the "fest" this year? We are really hoping you will... Take care, and tomorrow (or at least by Sunday) I will have pics of this "Frankenstein" spoiler mod.... LOL

Jeff


Sourmug MSG #329, 04-27-2012 12:51 AM
      Hi:

I hope that we will be able to. It's a lot of fun and you are all such great people.

Looking forward to the pictures.

Nolan


Tony Kania MSG #330, 05-11-2012 01:28 PM
      Well?

Tony


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #331, 05-11-2012 05:20 PM
      Final touches on the spoiler are in progress. Came home from work early to work on it... almost.................

Jeff



Tony Kania MSG #332, 05-11-2012 06:45 PM
      Good to hear. I can't wait to see the final piece.

Perhaps you can give me a hand with my Rodney slave this next weekend? I had to drive it without a clutch from Rosalia last week. I never did grind a gear though.

Tony


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #333, 05-11-2012 10:15 PM
      Sounds good Tones.... Let me know when you want to tackle it...

Jeff


ManMadeChickens (justinparcher@gmail.com) MSG #334, 05-14-2012 08:59 PM
      You made me go and look up which one that spoiler was... and I have to say, I can see a Fiero rockin' one of those pretty good. I too am looking forward to NWFF, it'll be good to be back with everyone again!

Tony Kania MSG #335, 05-18-2012 01:21 PM
      Pics, pics, pics, ......

Tony


Sourmug MSG #336, 05-18-2012 08:56 PM
     

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #337, 05-19-2012 12:45 PM
      Drum roll please......

OK... Finally done with this part of the project. I bought a NOS GP spoiler from a local yard that got all the Pontiac parts when Gee Pontiac closed... I had been admiring the look on the Grand Prix and since my entire swap was done with an engine/tranny/column out of a 2007 I decided to see if I could adapt one for a unique style... This was easy more or less, the exception being flattening the mounting points to match the Fiero trunk and filling the underneath area which now takes on a wing-let "look"...

Test fitting and measuring was a challenge. Tony came over and looked it over and as luck would have it, two of the mounting points were perfect as width and front to rear spacing goes. They lined up with the Fiero "coves." He helped me get over my fear of drilling a perfect trunk lid... yikes!




Had to dremel out 4 of the mount points..... and figure out how to flatten the area around the two main ones that would remain...



To do the first couple of coats of body material... I drilled 20 holes in the plastic it was laid over to make sure I got good adhesion.



Working in my "paint booth" ......



And finally a number shots of the finished product... One of the hardest things on this was to match the pinstriping on the spoiler edge with the striping on the front. Overall I did not have to add a stronger strut to hold the lid open... Working on wiring up the LED brakelight now.... anyway... here it is, several views...











Next is finishing the brakelight wiring... Trunk carpet and passenger floor carpet.. Both Black...

Thanks for watching! Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 05-19-2012).]

Sourmug MSG #338, 05-19-2012 04:41 PM
      Cool!, very nice.

Nolan


DPoppelll (danpoppell@att.net) MSG #339, 05-23-2012 01:57 AM
      I have to say, as someone who isn't a big fan of spoilers... This is awesome. Well worth the wait. How is the sight line out the back window?

Tony Kania MSG #340, 05-23-2012 06:33 PM
      Shaweet! (I know, I had already seen it. )

Hey, I had taken a ride around Hayden Lake last week, and want to do it again. We need to get a group of us together. The road was absolutely beautiful. I hear that Justin bought himself a 'Vette of the '08 variety. He can even tag along.

Tony


dratts (dratts2@gmail.com) MSG #341, 05-24-2012 10:50 AM
      Yes! Let's do a cruise. My car is going into a body shop for some fairly minor work on Tuesday, but otherwise I'm ready on any sunny day!

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #342, 05-29-2012 09:47 PM
      Yes let's do!! You guys get registered for the "FEST?" I did and so did the bride... Just checkin'

And thank you for the kind words Dpoppelll! You buy the LS4? Morad had a couple of sweethearts on their site last week.... Join the LS4 maniacs!!! You will love it...

Jeff

[This message has been edited by Dogcreek (edited 05-29-2012).]

thedrue MSG #343, 05-30-2012 01:24 AM
      Looks great Jeff! Katey and I are all registered and time-offed for the Fest and looking forward to seeing you all there, and your cars of course!

Maybe I can talk you into another ride...


JPH87 (jphofeldt@msn.com) MSG #344, 05-30-2012 01:55 AM
      Nice looks good

DPoppelll (danpoppell@att.net) MSG #345, 05-30-2012 02:58 AM
      I'm looking at buying one this summer, but I'll be re-reading this thread religiously when I do the swap. Do you have a 6-speed or 5-speed?

dobey MSG #346, 05-30-2012 09:15 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DPoppelll:

I'm looking at buying one this summer, but I'll be re-reading this thread religiously when I do the swap. Do you have a 6-speed or 5-speed?


He's got the 4t65e that comes mated to the LS4. Nobody currently has a running LS4 swap with a manual trans. And fieroguru and myself are the only ones I know of working on such a swap.


DPoppelll (danpoppell@att.net) MSG #347, 05-30-2012 05:53 PM
      What are you trying to use? I was thinking an F40 6-speed or something. Mainly because I like the sound of a 6-speed in my fiero.

EDIT

Just looked at Fierguru's LS4/F40 thread
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


The LS4 bolts directly to the F40, no adapter plate needed.

[This message has been edited by DPoppelll (edited 05-30-2012).]

dobey MSG #348, 05-31-2012 10:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DPoppelll:
What are you trying to use? I was thinking an F40 6-speed or something. Mainly because I like the sound of a 6-speed in my fiero.

EDIT

Just looked at Fierguru's LS4/F40 thread



Yeah, guru and I are both using the F40 6-speed. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone as a project to do though.


DPoppelll (danpoppell@att.net) MSG #349, 05-31-2012 11:26 PM
      So what's next?! I started reading for to see how you lifted the car over the cradle/engine and got caught up reading the next couple pages before I noticed I was glued to the thread.... again.

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #350, 05-31-2012 11:46 PM
      Next is the carpet and trunk redo.... also, I have the 4t65 HDe which is the 4 speed auto with Tap Shift... and Tap Shift is really the bomb once you get the hang of it... Amazing smooth shifts and faster than I personally could ever shift a manual... Others may be able to do it... me?... I just get the feel and push the paddle!

Jeff


troyboy (mrtroyboy69@yahoo.com) MSG #351, 06-07-2012 06:34 AM
      Are you having any programing problems with the trans? I'm looking at this swap as one of the options for my wifes Enterra, originally I was looking at the 3800 but she wants a V8 Auto. Are the LS4 Auto guys having any problems or have the "bugs" been worked out? If the swap was for me I would just do it and address the problems as they come up but it's for the wife and my dog doesn't like it when he has to share the dog house . Sorry to hi-jack the thread but you guys seem to have a lot of info on the topic.

Thanks in advance,
Troy

[This message has been edited by troyboy (edited 06-07-2012).]

dobey MSG #352, 06-07-2012 10:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by troyboy:
Are you having any programing problems with the trans? I'm looking at this swap as one of the options for my wifes Enterra, originally I was looking at the 3800 but she wants a V8 Auto. Are the LS4 Auto guys having any problems or have the "bugs" been worked out? If the swap was for me I would just do it and address the problems as they come up but it's for the wife and my dog doesn't like it when he has to share the dog house . Sorry to hi-jack the thread but you guys seem to have a lot of info on the topic.

Thanks in advance,
Troy


I haven't seen anyone really complaining about the trans, in that manner. It is the same trans that the 3800 gets, with only minor differences. Only trans related complaints I've seen are that some people don't like how the DoD kicks in. But that can easily be disabled in the ECM, and those who are annoyed enough by it, do disable it. If your wife doesn't want/need the TAPshift, it can easily be bypassed/disabled as well.


Tony Kania MSG #353, 06-07-2012 11:30 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by troyboy:


Thanks in advance,
Troy



Edit: For all to see, I did not ever mean that Jeff was not 100% involved in his build. He poured out sweat and tears into his wonderful ride. I strongly believe that my writings were taken out of context, and lost in internet translation. Jeff worked his a$$ for his car. And deserves full credit.

Sorry if it was ever taken differently.


Hey there Troy. Honestly, and no disrespect towards my main man Dogcreek, but Joe (Fieroking) would be the one to PM about build questions. He really did everything from beginning to end. A real gem for the local community, and the Fiero community in general. A link to his website can be found in my sig.

Tony



CETICARS MSG #354, 06-07-2012 01:42 PM
      can the DOD be turned off , using the LS2 intake an TB , TURNED AROUND TO TRANS side , could the LS2 computer be used if you change out the cam sensor ,please help answer some of these questions , i got my wiring harness in yesterday , next will be the gas peddle an ecu/pcm computer & brake booster sensor,i contact some people about doing my harness to stand alone ,who here do them an what is the price ,any one HERE selling programming software CD ....I NEED AS MUCH HELP AS I CAN GET

[This message has been edited by CETICARS (edited 06-07-2012).]

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #355, 06-07-2012 02:18 PM
      To answer Troy's question, and as someone who has driven the car for two years, the answer is no... no problems at all with the tranny once Joe had it setup with HP tuners. The only hiccup was a loose shift linkage which would not allow the "M" position to engage. I simply explored the linkage setting until it locked in all position detents.

Please feel free to ask questions here as there are several followers of the thread who are in the process of this swap. And to answer Ceticars question, Yes, the DoD can be turned off with tuning software. Very easy to do.

Jeff



troyboy (mrtroyboy69@yahoo.com) MSG #356, 06-07-2012 02:26 PM
      Jeff, thanks so much for your reply. I'm about 90% sure that this is the way I will go for the wife.

Tony thanks for your reply also but I like to talk to the customers that drive the cars and make up my mind as much as I can before I start talking to builders. But if any of them wish to give input it also would be appreciated .

Once again Thanks!

[This message has been edited by troyboy (edited 06-07-2012).]

Tony Kania MSG #357, 06-07-2012 05:45 PM
      Jeff... I did not mean that you weren't 100% involved. Sorry if you took it that way.

Troy... Totally understood. If anyone would be more honest, it is Jeff. (Dogcreek.) Merely trying to help, seeing as I put more than a minute or two on that car.

Tony


dratts (dratts2@gmail.com) MSG #358, 06-08-2012 11:17 AM
      Troyboy, There is a thread on LS1 tech about transmission problems with the LS4. The LS4 transmission is similar to the 3800sc except for having a beefed up differential as far as I know. I think that the LS1 guys probably beat on their cars more than your wife will. I don't think that there is a transverse transmission which can be built to handle as much torque as the 4t65e hd. So go with stock and drive it sensibly or beef it up and beat on it.

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #359, 06-08-2012 10:54 PM
      Exactly... what Don said!!

Jeff


DPoppelll (danpoppell@att.net) MSG #360, 06-10-2012 10:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dratts:

So go with stock and drive it sensibly or beef it up and beat on it.



The 12 year old in me loves this sentence, the adult in me agrees.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #361, 07-06-2012 09:40 PM
      Woo Hoo!

Great day today... Tony and I did a cruise to CDA to Joe's place.... Tony is doing some work on carpet for Joe's Yellow car, the 4.9 beauty... Don was there with the Mercilago... 6 total Fiero's there if you count the Reventon kit car... Yikes! It was a Fiero Jungle!

Joe did a super clean install of the wiring for the new spoiler... Nice and BRIGHT LED set on the GXP spoiler. Today was an AWESOME day as it is some of the first really good weather we have seen in the Siberia of North America.

Did a quick 3000 mile check on the front end of Porvett.... Running like a top, fairly peppy (smile.. heh heh heh) and oh what fun to drive. Thanks Joe and Tony!!! You guys are the best! ...and THANK YOU!

Jeff (And HOLY SMOKES) I finally own a page since page 1.......



dratts (dratts2@gmail.com) MSG #362, 07-07-2012 08:17 PM
      Always fun when you guys show up! My Fiero is a murcielago, it took me a while before I got the spelling down too.

Tony Kania MSG #363, 07-08-2012 01:11 PM
      Just some pics from when we were headed out. The GXP wing sure does look great.







Tony



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #364, 07-08-2012 04:45 PM
      Cool. Thanks Tony!

Sourmug MSG #365, 07-08-2012 10:06 PM
      Jeff:

My qustion is....





Did you win?


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #366, 07-08-2012 11:09 PM
      LOL...no.... Tony was giving the wave to go past on I-90 and I didn't get it..... Dhhhooooppp (Homer Simpson sound)

I will say I hit the 4th street on ramp to I-90 West with the heaviest pedal I ever have done and got to nearly 100 by the end... It is very short and downhill... But what a rush!!!

Jeff


Tony Kania MSG #367, 07-09-2012 12:37 AM
      The guy in the TA is a local tool. Superman sticker on the back window, A pillar gauge pod hitting him in the nose, and he never even looked at Jeff.

You should have taken the Palouse Jeff. It was awesome. I made it home in no time.

Great day, see you soon.

Tony


Tony Kania MSG #368, 02-22-2013 12:44 PM
      Bump diggity!

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #369, 03-07-2013 10:04 PM
      Thanks for the bump Tones..

Firing the thread back up with the new door panels and a custom scoop to replace the stock Fiero one... Pick very soon!

Jeff



infinitewill MSG #370, 03-08-2013 05:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Firing the thread back up with the new door panels and a custom scoop to replace the stock Fiero one... Pick very soon!

Jeff



What kind of scoop are you installing Jeff? An extractor hood?

Dr.. W.



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #371, 03-10-2013 02:25 PM
      Hi Will,

Actually a side intake scoop. I will get a pic up here in the next few days... Nice to hear from you... Jeff


Tony Kania MSG #372, 03-17-2013 09:43 AM
     



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #373, 03-17-2013 05:30 PM
      LOL.. good one!

Tony Kania MSG #374, 03-18-2013 08:05 PM
      I wanted to yell BUMP! But I went the humor route instead.

Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #375, 05-15-2013 10:14 PM
      Carpet for trunk and rear on the way... Pics soon of the new Russ door panels.... Weather finally agreeable here in Spoka-vegas...

Jeff


Sourmug MSG #376, 05-17-2013 08:32 PM
     



Nolan


Sourmug MSG #377, 07-08-2013 02:59 AM
      Hi Jeff:

How's the car coming along?

Nolan


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #378, 02-21-2014 10:19 PM
      Heading to Joe's tomorrow for a new lower alternator mount and a couple of other things... Begging the weather gods for no snow tonight....

Jeff



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #379, 02-23-2014 01:12 PM
      Just made it... it is a blizzard outside today... warm in the garage with Joe's latest LS4 NW build... Nice car!



Jims88 (stumpster60@gmail.com) MSG #380, 03-15-2014 06:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Heading to Joe's tomorrow for a new lower alternator mount and a couple of other things... Begging the weather gods for no snow tonight....

Jeff



Did you get your new alternator remounted, any pictures ?
I may have to relocate mine down low too, if it doesn't hold up well, up top rotating backwards.



Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #381, 03-15-2014 07:17 PM
      Yes did get it mounted... No squeakiness or odd noises. I will grab some pics tomorrow.

Jeff


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #382, 03-18-2014 10:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Yes did get it mounted... No squeakiness or odd noises. I will grab some pics tomorrow.

Jeff

Nice, fun to drive.




Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #383, 03-19-2014 06:51 PM
      Hey Rick! Long time no talk to!

How is my LS4 inspiration doing? (you and your car... ) Be interested to know how many miles you have on it now... I am a little over 4800 really trouble free miles... Still amazed at the gas mileage I get too... Joe did a great job on my swap and it just keeps roaring along... Good to hear from you..

Jeff



fireboss (ericj@live.com) MSG #384, 10-15-2015 12:44 AM
     
just read through this thread...man a nice one.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #385, 10-15-2015 11:34 AM
      Thanks Fireboss... still runs like a champ!


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #386, 10-31-2015 08:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dogcreek:

Hey Rick! Long time no talk to!

How is my LS4 inspiration doing? (you and your car... ) Be interested to know how many miles you have on it now... I am a little over 4800 really trouble free miles... Still amazed at the gas mileage I get too... Joe did a great job on my swap and it just keeps roaring along... Good to hear from you..

Jeff


Don't know how I missed this comment? Sorry for the delay.
I have 4 or 5 oil changes, off the top of my head I guess I have about 15k or so? I love driving it, and used to get 25mpg before the tune.....if I stayed off of it Now I have now idea sense it is even better to drive after the tune.

Glad to see you still have fun with it.