Rickady88GT V8 build thread
Topic started by: Rickady88GT, Date: 06-10-2009 08:55 PM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000114.html


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #1, 06-10-2009 08:55 PM
      OK, I took out the 3.5 V6 Short Star to put in a 5.3 LS4 V8.








This V6 swap was smog legal in CA so the plan is to do the V8 smog legal using the same stratagy. Basically, I will just put everything from the donor car in the Fiero.


I will not repaint the car.


But I will change out the entire interior.


The new interior will not look like a Fiero at all.


I got a dash from a 08 Malibu. But will not use any of the electronics or switches from it. Well, I will use the adjustable electric pedals.


So the list of "options" will look like this:

1988 Fiero GT
4 speed automatic
5.3 LS4 V8
power steering (2000 Camero 2.5 turns lock to lock)
12" C4 Corvette brakes
08 Malibu dash
08 Malibu steering wheel with "tap shift"
electrically adjustable pedals
dual climate control A/C
6 disk in dash CD with Sat and Ipod
1000 watt10 speaker sound system
Driver information center
SRT4 seats
Blacked out interior with blue suede
Mote Carlo gauges with Malibu dash
custom center console and door panels
Keyless entry
Keyless remote start with preheat or precool HVAC system
Anti theft system
drive by wire


I will edit this first post MANY times to add info.




Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #2, 06-10-2009 08:59 PM
      Can't wait to see the progress on this. The detail on that V6 was amazing and the build enjoyable to follow.

Tony Kania MSG #3, 06-10-2009 09:11 PM
      I have read some of your prior posts concerning this car. Your work is spectacular. This will be a thread to watch people. Good luck with her.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #4, 06-10-2009 09:50 PM
      Thank you,
I wanted to get close to driving the car before the thread. Now that the car runs and the intirior is looking better, I decided to start the thread.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #5, 06-10-2009 10:01 PM
      The V6 came out after I got a smog cert. This way I can drive the V8 for two years without the smog reff. I now have two years to "work out the bugs" before the next smog check.

I got an LS4 with the 4T65EHD and the entire electrical syetem.
The system was so complete that all I had to do was add a Battery and a fuel tank to run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOL9BeC4dyA

I used the stock MoteCarlo dash and gauges to run the engine.


I will use ALL of the electronics to run the drivetrain. I just need to adapt them into the Malibu dash.




Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #6, 06-10-2009 10:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
...
I will use ALL of the electronics to run the drivetrain. I just need to adapt them into the Malibu dash.


PCM, BCM, gauges... What else?


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #7, 06-10-2009 10:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


PCM, BCM, gauges... What else?


I will also use the ALBCM, HVAC, antitheft system. I have the Sat and OnStar sysem instaled too.



MordacP (mjmatthews559@comcast.net) MSG #8, 06-10-2009 10:23 PM
      The malibu dash is VERY nice. Where do you keep getting this stuff? The SRT-4 seats, now the malibu dash....
The short star is pretty cool, what are you plans with it?

I'm gonna have to come see when you're done!


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #9, 06-10-2009 10:26 PM
      Before I could start the engine I had to fix the broken anti theft system. It got damaged in the crash.


With out the stock donor key and pick up the engine would not run.

After I got it fixed I put it back into the Monte Carlo steering columb and adaped the system into the Malibu dash.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #10, 06-10-2009 10:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by MordacP:

The malibu dash is VERY nice. Where do you keep getting this stuff? The SRT-4 seats, now the malibu dash....
The short star is pretty cool, what are you plans with it?

I'm gonna have to come see when you're done!


You can come see it any time

The Short Star is for sell. I did take some parts off of it to put into the LS4, so it does not run at this time.

I got the stuff from the net. Just keep an eye out for it.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #11, 06-10-2009 10:35 PM
      This is how I got the drive train.








I wanted to use the aluminum cradel but found that the stock 88 cradle was a better choice for now.









Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #12, 06-10-2009 10:39 PM
      I used the West Coast Fiero LS4 mounts on the engine but made my own cradle mounts.














Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #13, 06-10-2009 10:45 PM
      after the seat rails got cut down, they are a better fit.




In the car they do take up some head room even after the most extreme seat rail mods..






With the seat forward and the back reclined, I do have some good room.




unboundmo (unboundmo@aol.com) MSG #14, 06-10-2009 10:48 PM
      WOW Rick... Had the smog legal 3.5 now you've one upped us again.... STOP!

[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 06-10-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #15, 06-10-2009 10:51 PM
      I had to use the SRT4 seat belts for the seat swap. The reciver is bolted to the seat on the SRT4 seats, not like the Fiero that are bolted to the space frame.






I had to take the belt out of the mechenisms and switch them left to right to get them to fit the Fiero.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #16, 06-10-2009 10:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by unboundmo:

WOW Rick... Had the smog legal 3.5 now you've one upped us again.... STOP!



Ha Ha, this is NOT my "dream Fiero" and will not be the last. I plan to sell this Fiero and build a smog legal manual LS3 I will drive this one tell I get an offer that will pay for the next Fiero.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #17, 06-10-2009 11:05 PM
      The SRT4 seats move a few inches more than the Fiero seats.
I now can sit closer to the steering wheel or further away from it with the new seats.
I have at least two extra inches of foot room now.
I dont have the stock carpet on the rear fire wall. I used a thinner "system" so the seats could move a little further rearward than stock.
I also moved the pedals further forward than stock. The two moves get me A LOT of "extra" leg room

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 06-10-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #18, 06-10-2009 11:40 PM
      I could not use the stock Malibu gauges because the incompatable electronics. But they sure are cool looking






So I need to get the Monte gauges to fit into the Malibu cluster. BUT the Monte gauges are larger than the Malibu.
So I had to "stretch out" the Malibu pods. I used a heat gun and a drinking glass. I heated up the plastic and the glass then slid the larger glass thru the smaller plastic to get the size I wanted.
Malibu

MonteCarlo


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #19, 06-10-2009 11:51 PM
      Before I got the Malibu dash I thought I could just instal the MonteCarlo gauges into the Malibu pod. BUT I was wrong.














Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #20, 06-10-2009 11:54 PM
      The color of the Mote gauges are cool






I wont have any of the stock Fiero stuff, so the color will all be new.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #21, 06-11-2009 12:39 AM
      I looked at getting a gauge over lay? I like it but not sure yet?


I do want to get a set of gauges to put on top of the dash.


I want to put this set o gauges in the center pod.


This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

The Malibu has a glove box in the top/center of the dash. I plan to make a twin gauge pod for the set of scan gauges.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 06-11-2009).]

whodeanie (dean@glassworksga.com) MSG #22, 06-11-2009 08:51 AM
      Nice build
D.


Unsafe At Any Speed (astevens@montana.edu) MSG #23, 06-11-2009 01:03 PM
      I love the 'factory' look and feel you give to your car. I'm looking forward to updates.

Oh yeah, you can pick up Evo Brembos (same front calipers as the V, two piston in the rear) for cheap. I picked up a set of four for my Talon for $450.



katatak MSG #24, 06-11-2009 01:06 PM
      Very nice Rick. Can't wait to see the finished product..... By the way, what are your plans for that "short star"?

Pat



RUNDLC (hmdznrcld@comcast.net) MSG #25, 06-11-2009 04:52 PM
      Next time I get down to Fresno I have to stop by and see this! Way cool.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #26, 06-13-2009 02:41 AM
      Thanks for the comments.

To get the steering wheel controles to work I had to do some surgery. NOT FUN

The stock Mote steering wheel has 11 functions but the Malibu has 10 not counting the tap shift. The extra function is the cruse cancel. I can live without it.


This is the tap shift and right control.


GM uses resistors to very the volts when the buttons are pressed. Basicaly the BCM is an OHM meter and will perform diferent functions when it sees the values it has in its memory. The problem is that the Malibu has much diferent resistance values than the Monte has. So the steering wheel is not a direct swap for the Monte BCM.
I had to remove all of the resistors from the Monte and Malibu controles and put the proper resistors from the Monte into the Malibu steering wheel. The problem is that this is MUCH easier said than done.
This is one of the two controls from the Malibu. BTW the HUGE black resistors are NOT the ones I need to mess with. The Blue ones are the ones I need to change


This is one of the 13 or so resistors needed to run the steering wheel functions.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 06-13-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #27, 06-13-2009 03:09 AM
      I did not use the Malibu steering columb with the Malibu Dash and steering wheel because the electronics, key and contoles were all not compatable with the Monte. So I used the Monte columb and mounted the light controles on the dash.

This is the stock Malibu Lower driver side dash ( kick panel ) with the dimmer and pedal switch removed.



I made a fiberglass insert to mount the Monte head light switch and the Malibu electric pedal controle switch.



On the left is the pedal switch and the right is the Monte head light switch.






I had to use parts of the stock switch plates to hold the switches to the new plate. I glued them to the new plate.



Test fit, the celphone,sunglass box is a very close fit.



Looks ready to go? I now have my Monte Carlo head light switch, gas and brake pedal adjustment switch, dash dimmer, traction controle and trunk switch in the lower left side of the dash.






Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #28, 06-13-2009 03:37 AM
      Before I got he dash I had some crazy ideas that GM would use some "off the self" parts on the Monte AND the Malibu that were compatable......The radio and heater controls look alike.....right? Just a color change?



NO not the same I had hoped that I could just mount the Mote stuff in the Malibu dash. But I had to modify the heater controles and radio to fit. BUT that was easy. the trim plates were the kick to the nuts. The Malibu radio looks VERY close to the Monte but the truth is that the Monte radio and heater controles are curved and the Malibu is totoly flat. So the trim pieces need to fill gaps and blend high spots.

Stock Mote trim
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

Stock Malibu trim
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

Modified Monte trim (not done yet)
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.


The modified Monte trim and stock Malibu side by side.
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

New trim ready to go.


You should note that the Malibu trim is MUCH taller than the Monte trim. This is because the Malibu dash will not be as low in the center when in stalled in the Fiero. I had to cut down the center hight to fit the center gear shift area of the Fiero. The stock Monte hight seemed to fit good.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 06-13-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #29, 06-13-2009 04:32 AM
      One more mod I need to do to the steering wheel was to replace the air bag. I did not want an explosive in my face that had no use. So I made a new horn buton out of fiberglass. First I made the shape I wanted out of green foam. Then covered it with cling wrap and a layer of fiberglass.


After I cut off the flash and sanded it, I test fit it to were the buton needed to be thicker.


Some bondo and primer. Then I cut a recess for a stock Fiero horn buton badge. I sanded off the back ground color from behind and repainted it the same color blue as my Fiero.


Some paint and it looks ready to go.

a little story behind the color, I wanted to paint it exactly like the Fiero but my wife did not want it so bright or bold. So we compromized and I got my racing stripes and she got the colors she wanted. It blends in much like the stock airbag, but with stipes

The new buton looks "at home" on the new wheel.




Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #30, 06-13-2009 04:39 AM
      I did not like the "Brick Red" that the dash came with. But I do like the black. So I did what any one would do in my place, cover the red with blue suede.










Yes that is a real glove box I now have three. This one, one on the top center of the dash and the celphone box under the light switch.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 06-13-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #31, 06-13-2009 04:49 AM
      This interior was as hard to do as the engine swap. That is not an exageration. The HVAC was a NIGHTMARE. The shifter was brutle and all the "small stuff" to blend it all together

The blower is one of the most powerfull I have seen. WOW I have wind in the car.



Tony Kania MSG #32, 06-13-2009 10:55 AM
      Shaking my head in awe!

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #33, 06-13-2009 12:20 PM
      I cant tell you how many times I shook my head, but not from awe Thanks.

This how the new beam looks.




but to get it to this point, many sleepless nights


kevin (kevinsullivan@frontier.com) MSG #34, 06-13-2009 04:53 PM
      Rick,
Will you be at WestFest? I can't wait to see your work---real close. I appreciate your attention to detail

Cordially,
Kevin


unboundmo (unboundmo@aol.com) MSG #35, 06-13-2009 05:15 PM
      sorry for the language but ... f*ck off rick... What the hell.... Damn that looks good... I wasn't sure of the color orangish but now with the blue sued... Damn... And this picture below.. How do you explain yourself?



MordacP (mjmatthews559@comcast.net) MSG #36, 06-13-2009 11:21 PM
      A round of applause!!!



At first I wasn't sure about the suede, but when you finished it up I was sold.
And the steering wheel...


mcaanda (mcaanda@gmail.com) MSG #37, 06-14-2009 12:47 AM
      Been waiting till you put a build thread together. My super secrete squirrel photo folder was getting pretty full!

Looks good buddy...


exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #38, 06-14-2009 01:08 AM
     

WOW,...just WOW !!



JenzGT2 (jen-fizz@sbcglobal.net) MSG #39, 06-14-2009 01:57 AM
      I do believe the hvac unit was harder than the engine swap, but in the end it will be a very cool or toasty warm Fiero!

Rick didn't mention that we did a lot of cutting and using hvac ducting from 3 different systems to make this custom one. We had hoped that we could use the Malibu's hvac since it already fit in the dash, but again the electronics in that unit would not work with the Monte and we even tried putting the motors from the Monte onto the Malibu hvac, that was a no go too.

So we trimmed the Monte hvac to fit and then plastic welded ducting to make everything line up on the dash. We used Monte hvac, ducting from the Malibu and Monte and Fiero ducting for the defrost vent. Here are a few pics, we didn't get many pictures as it was just very tedious work and not exciting.

Malibu and Monte hvac


Sizing up the Monte hvac in Malibu dash


Welding the plastic ducting together


Underneath view of ducting


Backside, showing defrost vent


Test fit in car..


After all that it is still not done, we still need to show how we did the fresh air intake and how we handled the panel between the spare tire area and passenger compartment. I'll let Rick discuss that!


carbon MSG #40, 06-14-2009 02:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

This is one of the two controls from the Malibu. BTW the HUGE black resistors are NOT the ones I need to mess with. The Blue ones are the ones I need to change


This is one of the 13 or so resistors needed to run the steering wheel functions.




Phhht... I work with that stuff every day... they do come smaller than that... you can still see the numbers on those I swear some look like they just came out of a pepper shaker... but that's why God invented tweezers...

Seriously awesome work!


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #41, 06-14-2009 02:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by kevin:

Rick,
Will you be at WestFest? I can't wait to see your work---real close. I appreciate your attention to detail

Cordially,
Kevin


Yes we plan to be there with the car. I have always let people in and up close to the car. It is not a " show car" it is our car that we take to some shows.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #42, 06-14-2009 02:49 AM
      I did not use the Fiero HVAC for several reasons, that meant that I had to modify lots of stuff. One of the things I changed was the fresh air intake. The Fiero is in the center between the wipers. The MonteCarlo has the air intake under the right side wiper. So I use a sheet of steel to plug the stock air intake and cut a new hole just under the right side wiper. But it is not visible. The most visible change is also going to get me a little extra room under the hood.
This is the back side of the HVAC unit from under the hood. It does not hang out into the front trunk. So after the system was done I plugged the hole and got a little extra room.






I used a modified Fiero HVAC air intake snorkel so water does not flow into the system.


If you look close at the brake booster you will see a little "change"

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 06-14-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #43, 06-14-2009 02:58 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by carbon:


Phhht... I work with that stuff every day... they do come smaller than that... you can still see the numbers on those I swear some look like they just came out of a pepper shaker... but that's why God invented tweezers...

Seriously awesome work!


The black one on my finger is a big one, the small blue one that the pin is pointing to is so small that the numbers can not be seen with a naked eye.


I did burn one resistor up, you would not happen to have extras would you



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #44, 06-14-2009 12:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by unboundmo:

sorry for the language but ... f*ck off rick... What the hell.... Damn that looks good... I wasn't sure of the color orangish but now with the blue sued... Damn... And this picture below.. How do you explain yourself?


HaHaHa, itake this as " I like it "

I did not like the style/look of the stock air bag. It was just like this one from the Solstice, Corvette, G6 or Cobalt. It had a "ring" in the center with the emblem in it's center. I had the freedom to make it smooth and con caved. The airbag stood out more convexed.




FastFieros (fastfieros@fastfieros.com) MSG #45, 06-14-2009 12:58 PM
      Wow ! That interior work is awesome. I wanted to some day install the GTP 04-07 to the Fiero.

updated projects http://www.fastfieros.com/projects with the 08-09 6 speed 6T75 if you get interested in that.



Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #46, 06-14-2009 02:02 PM
      You make this look so easy. This should really be a 50+ page thread. Awesome work!

mtownfiero (andrewj592@aol.com) MSG #47, 06-14-2009 09:11 PM
      Feel free to put that interior in my car.. when you get a chance of course.

RumbleB MSG #48, 06-14-2009 09:22 PM
      I like the work that you doing here! Keep it up. That center console is going to be some fun with the dash that low.
Let's see a little more on the engine. Also, is there a dogbone and are you going to use it? It looks like the engine is pretty stable without one.
What mods do you have for the engine?

[This message has been edited by RumbleB (edited 06-14-2009).]

Triple_El MSG #49, 06-14-2009 11:15 PM
      In my opinion, you have the best-looking Fiero out there. Ever since I got mine this winter, I've been looking forward to painting it. I was thinking something like the blue/white Shelby Cobra. When I saw your car, it was like you beat me to the punch, in color scheme and engine choice (V6 or V8 DOHC... I just love the sound) My dream for my Fiero is a N* with blue/white stripes or yellow/black stripes.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know how much I admire your car. Especially with these new modifications - top notch!


RUNDLC (hmdznrcld@comcast.net) MSG #50, 06-16-2009 12:30 AM
      Hey Rick Since we are both in Cali. Do you offer a class in doing this stuff?? Man you guys kill me with what you do to these cars.

You and that other guy who lives up in Washington just work my nerves big time, I love what you do, keep it up and if you can send some knowledge this way please do!


Great job


RUNDLC


mcaanda (mcaanda@gmail.com) MSG #51, 06-16-2009 11:32 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RUNDLC:
Hey Rick Since we are both in Cali. Do you offer a class in doing this stuff?? Man you guys kill me with what you do to these cars.
You and that other guy who lives up in Washington just work my nerves big time, I love what you do, keep it up and if you can send some knowledge this way please do!
Great job
RUNDLC




.
.


.
.

.
.



Hudini (hudini@tds.net) MSG #52, 06-16-2009 12:21 PM
      Very, very nice work. Just amazing to me this is even possible.

Chicken McNizzle (boscolingus@yahoo.com) MSG #53, 06-16-2009 04:31 PM
      props fpr the SRT-4 seats.. Do you plan on installing the factory pass-throughs for a future harness at all?



Unsafe At Any Speed (astevens@montana.edu) MSG #54, 06-16-2009 05:18 PM
      This thread is motivating and demoralizing at the same time. At first I'm all "Nice! I need to get back to work on my Fiero!" then the reality sets in that I have not even half this skill...



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #55, 06-17-2009 01:48 AM
      Thanks for all the great comments. I really look forward to getting the car out and showing it in person.

I will try to answer some questions:

FastFieros, I first saw Orval's custom car with a 3800SC and the newer GXP dash. I did like what he had done. That got my wheels turning and wandering if I could do the Malibu dash like he had done. Turns out that they are kind of the same but not enough to use the same of mods. Or maybe the difference was our play books have different offensive style?
I would LOVE to use the F40 I have for the LS4 but that cant be done smog legally. The next best thing is not smog legal either, the 6 speed auto. That seems like a GREAT choice for those that just want an auto. In the Malibu with Tap Shift you can start off in third gear if you want.

Alex4mula: you are very right. This could have been a 50+ page thread by now if I had started it when I first started the swap's. BUT I just don't stop very often to take pics. My wife does that as I work.

mtownfiero: I wish I could do this kind of thing for people and make some money, but this one is just a hobby. And NO you cant have it...

RumbleB: I don't see the center console being that hard. The reason is that I want it very small. I don't like the wide boxy beam that the stock Fiero has, but I do like the skinny tapered center tunnel under the console. So my plan is to just cover it with carpet and as little fiberglass as possible. Basically it will just be a shift surround and a plate for a few switches and a sub box between the seats. The stock Fiero has an exaggerated center tunnel, I want to do the opposite and make it as small as possible. I don't have a single wire or cable in the tunnel ( I relocated them) so it will be smaller than the stock one.
I am still holding back on the engine stuff for now, I am not done with it yet and I might still change some things. I don't have a Dog Bone and I probably never will on any of my swaps. I don't like the looks of them and I think a mounting system just as good can be done from under the engine. I have run the Short Star for 5 years or so with out one and it has 5 stock GM mounts under it. This LS4 has polly.
The engine will be totally stock, at least tell it get officially certified.

Triple_El: Blue and white is cool. I have always wanted stripes that you don't see that often. It kind of makes people do a double take and either say it looks crooked or looks good. Either way they still looked I stuck with two stock GM colors to keep it in the family. The Blue is indigo blue pearl metallic and is on the SUV's. The Silver is called Galaxy silver and is on the mid sized cars.

RUNDLC: I make way to many mistakes to try to show others how its done I only post pics of the stuff that worked.

Hudini: I knew I was going to do the Malibu dash when I first saw one. I knew it because I wanted it that bad. I just takes time. I don't have all that much skill, I just want it done bad enough that I keep working at it. I will admit it was more work than I thought it was going to be.

Chicken McNizzle: I REALLY like the Neon SRT4 seats from the first time I saw sspeed street ponder the idea a little wile back. I just finally got around to it. I dont plan on any other mods to the seats. I think they look cool as is, heck just seeing a black seat belt in a Fiero looks cool

HaHa, you have plenty of skill to pull this off. Most people don't have the time to invest. I am not all that original either, I just put a little spin on what I have or what I see others do. I think the combination of several spinning tops that make up this car make it "look" just a step above some others?



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #56, 06-17-2009 02:33 AM
      I thought I had some pics of the shifter? Looks I blasted thru that project with out the camera. I will try to get some pics of it soon.
Let me first say that the dash now sits in the exact location that the stock Fiero shifter used to be. So I modified the shifter to be as low as possible by cutting off the the entire mount under the shifter mechanism. I also removed the tack welded shifter mount from the center tunnel. I reformed the shifter in such a way that allowed me to mount it 3-4 inches further back with out getting taller. If you look in the center tunnel where the shifter is located you will notice that it is mounted in the deepest recess in the tunnel. The further rearward you relocate it the higher it will have to be mounted. I had to move the shifter back so I could use the full range of motion. The stock Shifter would hit the HVAC controls in the "N" position. So I not only changed the shifter base plate and made a new mount but I also had to add extra range of motion for the 4 speed auto tranny.
One other mod that I did was to make sure that the Front mounted LS4 still had a proper shift range after mounting in the rear of the Fiero. If I just used a Fiero cable on the Fiero shifter on the LS4, the P R N 4 3 2 1 would all be reversed to 1 2 3 4 N R P. I remedied this by using the stock LS4 shift cable (because it is very long) and moved its mounting location to the front of the shifter. The stock Fiero shifter cable is mounted on the rear of the shifter. I cut the stock cable mount off and welded it to the front of the shifter. I then ran the LS4 shifter cable thru the side of the center tunnel and under the driver seat and carpet to a thru plug on the firewall that is next to the seat belt mechanism. I had to cut off the "ball" that the cable snaps onto and re-weld it about .5" higher to retain the stock LS4 shifter geometry and shifter lockouts and detents. So as you pull the shifter back tell it stops on each detent (tooth) it coincides with the tranny shifter detents.
I also had to incorporate the lockout solenoid on the shifter for the ignition key. I mounted that to the right side of the shifter. This lockout unlocks when the brake is pushed so it will not slip into gear with out you foot on the brake and it also will not send a signal the another lockout in the steering column to remove the key unless it is in "P". Bottom line here is that if my shifter does not work properly, I wont even be able to start the car or take the key out. I hope it always works
The shifter shaft is about 4" shorter than stock and has a nob from an 89 Corvette. This was the smallest shifter nob I could find. I had to make a custom adaptor sleeve to mount the top two inches of the Corvette shifter shaft to the Fiero shifter shaft. Then I made a custom rod for the button on top of the nob.

So I don't have a shifter cable running down the center tunnel, I have drive by wire so I don't have a throttle cable there either. I don't have an ECM in the center between the seats and no wires down the center. And I relocated the brake booster vacuum line. There is nothing in the center tunnel but a gas tank. This allowed me to make the center console as low and narrow as possible. I like the small center tunnel and will try to keep the final console as small as I can.

If you look close you will notice that the shifter is mounted higher and further back than The Fiero shifter used to be. But the Corvette nob on top keeps the total height low.


Also notice that the carpet is right up against the center tunnel with out any plastic skeleton or those funky shields that protected the cruise brain and sub amp.







ClayTonto (acecwilson@yahoo.com) MSG #57, 06-17-2009 03:07 AM
      WOW!



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #58, 06-17-2009 03:11 AM
      One of the most unique things about this Fiero is the electric adjustable pedals. I am not sure yet if they will have any real use, but they are fun to play with.
This was another part of the engine swap that took way more time than I thought it would. I actually put the adjustable pedal project down two or three times because of the many obstacles they conflict with.


Let me start with a disclaimer: I did this to my Fiero for my own reasons. Please don't rant on and on about how useless it is like the power steering comments that I get all the time.
Second is that I HIGHLY modified the brake pedal assembly and brake booster mount to fit this system for the purpose of being functional for a 6'+ person with out cramping the legs.
Thank You

I need to say that I think this system will be practical in this car because my wife and I both drive this car. There is about 8" height difference between us and she would have a real problem reaching the pedals now that the dash is about three inches closer to the driver. To compensate for the closer dash and steering wheel I made some extra rearward seat travel. This creates an obvious problem for the "shorter legged people". The pedals have about 4" of travel, the seats have about 5 extra inches of travel over the stock Fiero seats. So I can move the seats further back AND further forward than the Fiero seats. In addition the pedals move further forward by about an inch over stock Fiero. So I can move my seat back all the way and the pedals forward all the way and my heel cant even touch the brake. In the stock Fiero I could never stretch out my legs.
So again let me say that this may not be for every one, but it should work fine for my wife and I.

This is a pic of the center tunnel mod I did for the Monte Carlo HVAC. I removed all brackets and mounts from the front bulkhead. This allowed me to move the gas pedal further forward.


This is not the final product. But it gives you an idea how the HVAC and new pedals "mesh" together.

I had to "dent" the steel just under the windshield to fit the motor.

If you look close at the Booster mounts on the bulkhead you will notice that it has boxed steel spacers. This is how I was able to get the pedals to move forward an extra .75". Just in case you are wondering if the brake pedal will hit the floor before the full travel in the master cylinder is reached,? It wont. I measured several times before I did it. And again after it was done. I did not use the stock Fiero pedals I used the Monte stuff. They are MUCH different.


[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 06-17-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #59, 06-17-2009 03:50 AM
      I used the Monte Carlo steering column in this swap, so I had to get the 06 Monte to mount to the 88 steering shaft that is mounted the 200 FireBird power steering rack
The easyest way to do it was to just take apart the U joint of the Monte and Fiero and mix match the parts.
The stock Fiero steering shaft and Monte side by side.


I took the aluminum yoke off the Monte and the cast iron yoke off the Fiero. They come apart exactly like a rear wheel drive drive shaft.



The Fiero steering shaft with the Monte aluminum yoke on it.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 06-17-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #60, 06-17-2009 04:02 AM
      I knew I would have to modify the brake booster too. The LS4 needs a vacuum reading from the booster so I had to add one.

Stock Fiero booster. GM put a nice "blank" for the sensor.


The booster now has a hole for the sensor.


The booster with two seals a booster check valve and the pressure sensor ready to go in.


Assembled and ready to go in.



Nashco (nashco@hotmail.com) MSG #61, 06-17-2009 02:26 PM
      I'll be watching this one. Looks like you're doing some great work! I'm surprised at how committed you are to using the Malibu dash and the LS4 auto. I can understand the LS4 auto, for smog nazi reasons, but it looks like you must really be in love with the Malibu dash to be swapping all the Monte stuff over to that dash.

Obviously, you're fully committed at this point...but looking back, what would you say to somebody willing to use a Malibu powertrain (say an E85 3500, Ecotec, or 3600 with the 6 speed auto) with the Malibu dash, etc.? Do you think that would have simplified much with the HVAC, electrics, etc. or do you think most of the fabrication/modification would have been the same? I like the F-Body dash swap for simplicity reasons and had planned on going that route with my GT (still looks good, but a lot less work), but the Malibu dash is definitely better looking, especially if the Malibu gauges could stay intact. It's just too bad that so few GMs come with manual transmissions anymore (I'm sure you'd agree, as it would make CA emissions a lot easier for you too).

Bryce


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #62, 06-17-2009 03:42 PM
      I did like the F body dash swap, but I liked this one much more. I think that this swap can be done MUCH less complicated by just using the outer shell of the dash. I chose to use the magnesium beam and HVAC for several reasons that may not be a priority to others.

I would have done the Malibu dash and 3600 6 speed auto in a heart beat if that were offered at as good of a deal as this LS4 was offered. I have the LS4 because of the price, not because I think it is the "best" engine for my Fiero. That 3600 is a GREAT engine, and the best automatic tranny I have ever driven.


Nashco (nashco@hotmail.com) MSG #63, 06-17-2009 04:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

I did like the F body dash swap, but I liked this one much more. I think that this swap can be done MUCH less complicated by just using the outer shell of the dash. I chose to use the magnesium beam and HVAC for several reasons that may not be a priority to others.

I would have done the Malibu dash and 3600 6 speed auto in a heart beat if that were offered at as good of a deal as this LS4 was offered. I have the LS4 because of the price, not because I think it is the "best" engine for my Fiero. That 3600 is a GREAT engine, and the best automatic tranny I have ever driven.


That's very interesting to hear. Maybe I should keep my eyes peeled for a complete, wrecked Malibu with 3600!

Bryce


stickpony MSG #64, 06-17-2009 05:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

OK, I took out the 3.5 V6 Short Star to put in a 5.3 LS4 V8.


So the list of "options" will look like this:

1988 Fiero GT
4 speed automatic
5.3 LS4 V8
power steering (2000 Camero 2.5 turns lock to lock)
12" C4 Corvette brakes
08 Malibu dash
08 Malibu steering wheel with "tap shift"
electrically adjustable pedals
dual climate control A/C
6 disk in dash CD with Sat and Ipod
1000 watt10 speaker sound system
Driver information center
SRT4 seats
Blacked out interior with blue suede
Mote Carlo gauges with Malibu dash
custom center console and door panels
Keyless entry
Keyless remote start with preheat or precool HVAC system
Anti theft system
drive by wire


I will edit this first post MANY times to add info.



nice! that stuff is money

[This message has been edited by stickpony (edited 06-17-2009).]

fieroguru MSG #65, 06-17-2009 06:13 PM
      WOW... this is quickly becoming one of my favorite threads.

Keep up the good work!


RumbleB MSG #66, 06-17-2009 10:54 PM
      Like I said before - Great work! There is only one thing missing, that you forgot to get from the doner car. The ABS brake system.
This thread is bookmark!

[This message has been edited by RumbleB (edited 06-17-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #67, 06-18-2009 01:02 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RumbleB:

Like I said before - Great work! There is only one thing missing, that you forgot to get from the doner car. The ABS brake system.
This thread is bookmark!



I installed that too I just don't have it plumed into the hydraulics, and I have not figured out the rear wheel speed sensors yet. Tell then all the sensors will be run off of the modified front wheel speed sensors. I am concerned about using the Monte Carlo ABS module because it is programed for a front wheel drive car with a bias of about 60% front 40% rear. The Fiero is almost opposite of that. If I were to use this ABS system I might have some problems? This system does not use a proportioning valve, the module pumps the rear brake as if it were the proportioning valve.
I could try to use a Solstice Module? It has a 50 50 bias. Then see what happens.
I cant use the vale from the Fiero with the module because it would not get even pressure on the front and rear circuit because the module moderating the front and rear pressure AND left to right could be verried as well.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #68, 06-18-2009 02:24 AM
      I need to relax









[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 06-18-2009).]

Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #69, 06-18-2009 04:51 AM
      looks like your jeep is doing all the stretching

RumbleB MSG #70, 06-22-2009 02:08 PM
      Oh no! Not letting this thread get into the archives.
Any updates?


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #71, 06-22-2009 03:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RumbleB:

Oh no! Not letting this thread get into the archives.
Any updates?


No time today, but will try tomorrow.



kwagner MSG #72, 06-22-2009 08:48 PM
      Great build so far I have one question:
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:




Are those flappy paddles supposed to both have +'s on them? So you can either shift up, or up?


infinitewill MSG #73, 06-22-2009 09:50 PM
      .

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 01-02-2016).]

Unsafe At Any Speed (astevens@montana.edu) MSG #74, 06-22-2009 09:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


HaHa, you have plenty of skill to pull this off. Most people don't have the time to invest. I am not all that original either, I just put a little spin on what I have or what I see others do. I think the combination of several spinning tops that make up this car make it "look" just a step above some others?



Oh yeah, that's probably it. And money. I guess if I wasn't dumping money into three cars it might be a little easier...


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #75, 06-23-2009 02:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by kwagner:

Great build so far I have one question:

Are those flappy paddles supposed to both have +'s on them? So you can either shift up, or up?


It has the two shift up buttons on top and two down shift paddles in the back of the wheel. One finger to shift up but I can fit three fingers on the down shift. I guess it is like that because you cant see the down shift paddles, you just hit the back of the wheel and you cant miss them.



DeLorean00 (twincam18@aol.com) MSG #76, 06-23-2009 02:18 AM
      That is one badass Cherokee!! I just bought a 1998 Cherokee, but it is a pointless Cherokee (2WD, 2 Door).

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #77, 06-23-2009 02:49 AM
      The LS4 has a returnless fuel system. It also has a tank pressure sensor and fuel pressure regulator and a roll over valve all in the sending unit. So instead of the easy way out I just dropped that sending unit in the Fiero tank.


I had to make a new tank top that would serve to mount the new sending unit. The sending unit had a HUGE locking cam like the Fiero unit did. But the cam was so big I could not even fit it in the tunnel. So I cut down the diameter of the top of the sending unit cam and drilled two holes per cam and screwed the sending unit down.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #78, 06-23-2009 02:58 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DeLorean00:

That is one badass Cherokee!! I just bought a 1998 Cherokee, but it is a pointless Cherokee (2WD, 2 Door).



Thanks, you can always convert it?
I plan to do an engine swap in this one too. I am looking at an LS3 and a 6 speed auto out of an Escalade. I am thinking that I could run 5:12 or lower gears and just skip the 1st and 2nd gears on the street. Off road I could use the 1st and 2nd as "granny gears" and stack them with the low gear in the transfer case to get a crawler gear.


DeLorean00 (twincam18@aol.com) MSG #79, 06-23-2009 03:10 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
Thanks, you can always convert it?
I plan to do an engine swap in this one too. I am looking at an LS3 and a 6 speed auto out of an Escalade. I am thinking that I could run 5:12 or lower gears and just skip the 1st and 2nd gears on the street. Off road I could use the 1st and 2nd as "granny gears" and stack them with the low gear in the transfer case to get a crawler gear.


I was under the Cherokee and it looks totally easy to covert to 4x4. I was toying with the idea of just buying a rolled or damaged 4x4 with good suspension and swapping it over. Then I can part out the remains of the doner Cherokee. Hmmm another project.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #80, 06-23-2009 03:10 AM
      As you can see the top of the sending unit is higher than the stock unit was. So I cut out a section of the tunnel and replated it to clear the tank.
The top of the tunnel is now to high to run shifter cables or wires. And that is actually my plan. I want to keep the size of the center console very small so I redirected all lines that used to run thru it. Even the brake booster vacuum line was moved. I used an old A/C line and run it in the stock place as the A/C lines.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #81, 06-23-2009 03:15 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DeLorean00:


I was under the Cherokee and it looks totally easy to covert to 4x4. I was toying with the idea of just buying a rolled or damaged 4x4 with good suspension and swapping it over. Then I can part out the remains of the doner Cherokee. Hmmm another project.



I was on NAXJA forum during the build. They were VERY helpful and great people.


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #82, 06-23-2009 03:42 AM
      Great thread!

Please take LOTS more pictures though. We like pictures.


bkcamaro (bkcamaro@yahoo.com) MSG #83, 06-23-2009 11:28 AM
      i love the malibu dash thats nice



BabyVet (mybabyvet@yahoo.com) MSG #84, 06-23-2009 08:20 PM
      i so want you knowledge and know how!!! GREAT looking car and work!! Keep it up and updated

good luck


Nebiros88 MSG #85, 06-23-2009 10:10 PM
      So this is what you've been doing with all those schematics! Great work, keep it up... Let me know if there is anything else you need.

zi_gravedigger MSG #86, 06-23-2009 10:50 PM
      Simply amazing. Thumbs up to you.

And I love the steering wheel...


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #87, 06-24-2009 02:00 AM
      Thanks for the encouragement and posotive inforcment.

If any one thinks I am screwing up, it is OK with me to point it out. I learn from constructive criticism too
 
quote
Originally posted by Nebiros88:

So this is what you've been doing with all those schematics! Great work, keep it up... Let me know if there is anything else you need.


Thanks for the help. The fast responses really helped.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #88, 06-24-2009 02:16 AM
      The shifter in its new location.


[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 06-24-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #89, 06-24-2009 02:32 AM
      A few pics of the engine.

the alt bracket came from Rockcrawl at Fieroadiction. It was made for the stock Fiero alt so it could make the engine swap a little easier for those that just reprogram the ECM. I do things the hard way so I modified the alt bracket to use the stock LS4 alt.


stock LS4 alt mount.


The water pump housing is so close to the fire wall that I felt it was a good idea to move the pulley and trim down the mount for better breathing room.






With the pulley off you can see a "boss" so I drilled into this boss and made a new pulley mount on my lathe to relocate the pulley.


I had to do something with the coil pack and or the deck lid hinge mount because they want to occupy the same real estate in the bay. So I modified both> I relocated the coil and the mount.
Stock coil mount.


Stock deck lid hinge mount cut down to fit engine.





Relocated mount


Relocated coil.



Believe it or not, I plan to use the stock Fiero deck lid hinge springs?

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 06-24-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #90, 06-24-2009 12:30 PM
      I took the custom exhaust system off of the Short Star and put it on the LS4. I wrapped it with header wrap. The clamps should stop it from unraveling?


I had to try to keep heat out of the alt. The alt has three layers of heat protection, Header wrap, stock heat shield and this heat blanket. I got the heat blanket from the stock LS4 motor mount. It protected the gel-filled front motor mount from the exhaust manifold. Now it is between the atl and the rear manifold.


Nashco (nashco@hotmail.com) MSG #91, 06-24-2009 06:17 PM
      It looks like progress is coming pretty steadily, keep up the good work! Something worth considering...that alternator needs to shed a lot of heat. Between your brackets and heat shields, it looks like the alternator will be hard pressed to get some good airflow pumping through it. You might consider focusing your heat shield more on the exhaust and less on the alternator. Similar concept to what you've done, except that you're attaching it to the exhaust manifold instead of the alternator.

Obviously, it'll work the way you've got it for a while...you're just a little more likely to overheat (and kill) the alternator.

Bryce


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #92, 06-24-2009 07:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

I took the custom exhaust system off of the Short Star and put it on the LS4. I wrapped it with header wrap.


That works.
Down the road, if Fresno has as much airborne salt as Monterey, CA / the coastal region has, I suggest getting them Jet-Hot coated. I've seen things rust under header wrap in coastal regions of Cali. Besides, Jet hot coatings look at car shows! (which you'll be winning all the time! )

[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 06-24-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #93, 06-24-2009 07:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Nashco:

It looks like progress is coming pretty steadily, keep up the good work! Something worth considering...that alternator needs to shed a lot of heat. Between your brackets and heat shields, it looks like the alternator will be hard pressed to get some good airflow pumping through it. You might consider focusing your heat shield more on the exhaust and less on the alternator. Similar concept to what you've done, except that you're attaching it to the exhaust manifold instead of the alternator.

Obviously, it'll work the way you've got it for a while...you're just a little more likely to overheat (and kill) the alternator.

Bryce


You may be right, but the heat shield is not actually on the alt. It is attached to the bracket. I made sure I have good air flow from the internal fan. The alt has an air gap all around it for air flow. I plan to use a pre88 blower and duct the air to the alt, like the stock pre88's do. I think that will do the trick.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #94, 06-24-2009 07:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:


That works.
Down the road, if Fresno has as much airborne salt as Monterey, CA / the coastal region has, I suggest getting them Jet-Hot coated. I've seen things rust under header wrap in coastal regions of Cali. Besides, Jet hot coatings look at car shows! (which you'll be winning all the time! )



I am with you. I don't like header wrap. I am pressed for time and money on this one. I just don't want to sink $$ into this exhaust system. It is supposed to be made of stainless. I just never got around to it. But for now this will give me some time till I make another one out of SS..



RumbleB MSG #95, 06-24-2009 11:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

Stock deck lid hinge mount cut down to fit engine.





Relocated mount




I was reading your updates and saw these pictures of that poor hinge mount. The wheels started turning in my head! What would happen if the hinge mount was flipped 90* with the threaded studs pointing down, under the shelf that the rear window is sitting on? Is there enough movement in the hinge, for the deck lid to swing open? This would clean up the firewall some and you could mount the coil back in, it's stock location.

Just a thought, that I am going to look into. When I get ready to do my engine swap.

Keep up the good work!


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #96, 06-25-2009 01:01 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RumbleB:


I was reading your updates and saw these pictures of that poor hinge mount. The wheels started turning in my head! What would happen if the hinge mount was flipped 90* with the threaded studs pointing down, under the shelf that the rear window is sitting on? Is there enough movement in the hinge, for the deck lid to swing open? This would clean up the firewall some and you could mount the coil back in, it's stock location.

Just a thought, that I am going to look into. When I get ready to do my engine swap.

Keep up the good work!


I had to use the mount as is and move it to the driver side about 3" so I could keep the stock deck lid springs in tact.
I don't know if the flip would work?



exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #97, 06-25-2009 02:40 PM
     

Maybe i just missed it, but are you telling me that the Malibu dash fit right into the fiero with no modifications ?!!?

It was the right width and everything ???

Looks amazing !


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #98, 06-25-2009 04:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by exoticse:
Maybe i just missed it, but are you telling me that the Malibu dash fit right into the fiero with no modifications ?!!?

It was the right width and everything ???

Looks amazing !


Talking about a loaded question Yes and No is the answer.
I only trimmed a very small piece of the top corners so it would clear the A pillar. I did have to cut out the top forward corner of the door panels to be able to close the doors. The Fiero A pillar trim plastic was cut to fit over the top of the dash instead of between the dash and A pillar (as the stock Fiero pillar/dash did). And I cant use the Malibu end caps because there is just no room for them. I have to make new ones.
IF you consider the "beam" a part of the dash then MAJOR mods had to be done to fit the Dash in the Fiero.
I did not try to fit the dash over the stock Fiero steering column brace. So maybe it will be MUCH MUCH MUCH easier to do the swap with out the beam.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #99, 06-26-2009 02:16 AM
      I made a quick disconnect for the fuel tank. It adapts the small vent hose on the tank to the large vent tube on the fill line. I welded the stock Fiero over flow?vent tube because the LS4 sending unit has one integrated into the top.






Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #100, 06-26-2009 02:33 AM
      The fuel line and new brake booster line. I sealed off all of the holes in the fire wall.


Working out the deck lid springs and hinges.








Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #101, 06-26-2009 02:58 AM
      Had to clearance for the O2 sens.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #102, 06-26-2009 03:07 AM
      Some damage


This how I got the dash.


Future suspension mods.




Nashco (nashco@hotmail.com) MSG #103, 06-26-2009 01:09 PM
      Looks like you're going with Kappa (Solstice/Sky) suspension parts, huh? I've had my eye on them for a while and thought they'd package fairly well in the Fiero (and be a big geometry improvement). I wanted to use them for my $2009 AWD Fiero, but they're still a bit pricy from the junkyards for my project. It will be interesting to see how you make your chassis attachment points. I think the 6 speed manual trans (F40) axle assemblies would mate with the Kappa hubs, but never checked the facts myself, just reading stuff on the internet (and you know how that goes!). Have you checked axle compatibility between your auto and the Kappa hubs yet?

Bryce


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #104, 06-26-2009 02:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Nashco:

Looks like you're going with Kappa (Solstice/Sky) suspension parts, huh? I've had my eye on them for a while and thought they'd package fairly well in the Fiero (and be a big geometry improvement). I wanted to use them for my $2009 AWD Fiero, but they're still a bit pricy from the junkyards for my project. It will be interesting to see how you make your chassis attachment points. I think the 6 speed manual trans (F40) axle assemblies would mate with the Kappa hubs, but never checked the facts myself, just reading stuff on the internet (and you know how that goes!). Have you checked axle compatibility between your auto and the Kappa hubs yet?

Bryce


When I had them out and "mocked up" the plan was to just use the stock KAPPA axles. They are so large in diameter that it may be possible to cut them to length and spline them. That way you wont be limited to some stock axles that may or may not be the right length. But if a set could be used and bolted up, that would be even better. My plan was to use the KAPPA suspension, brakes and power steering on a F40 LS3 combo.

BTW: if you want to build an AWD with this susp you will need two rear sets to do it. The front has splined hubs but the shock is directly centered between the wishbones. I don't see any way to modify it for a drive shaft and still have good steering range of motion? I guess you could make a "stilt" but that seems a little extreme and maybe impractical? But still worth looking into.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 06-26-2009).]

Nashco (nashco@hotmail.com) MSG #105, 06-26-2009 02:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


When I had them out and "mocked up" the plan was to just use the stock KAPPA axles. They are so large in diameter that it may be possible to cut them to length and spline them. That way you wont be limited to some stock axles that may or may not be the right length. But if a set could be used and bolted up, that would be even better. My plan was to use the KAPPA suspension, brakes and power steering on a F40 LS3 combo.

BTW: if you want to build an AWD with this susp you will need two rear sets to do it. The front has splined hubs but the shock is directly centered between the wishbones. I don't see any way to modify it for a drive shaft and still have good steering range of motion? I guess you could make a "stilt" but that seems a little extreme and maybe impractical? But still worth looking into.



I've got a Sky and I've done a spring swap on it, so I'm intimately familiar with the suspension design. I actually looked to the Kappa suspension long before I got the Sky, that's just a coincidence. I thought the path of least resistance would be to use two RWD setups from the Kappa (if doing an AWD Fiero), as the "rear" knuckle has a steering attachment, but in the end the route I've taken (using mostly stock '88 Fiero parts) has worked out pretty well. I don't have fancy aluminum suspension parts, but it's cheap and easier, which is the name of the game for the $2009 build.

Bryce


JenzGT2 (jen-fizz@sbcglobal.net) MSG #106, 06-27-2009 02:23 AM
      Project Update:

Engine is in the car and should be staying that way for good. We have been working the last 3 days and late into the night trying wrap up the engine work. Rick is still working on it now, hooking up the all the necessary lines and hope to have it on all 4 wheels very soon.

Back to garage.......

Jen


JenzGT2 (jen-fizz@sbcglobal.net) MSG #107, 06-27-2009 04:30 PM
      Well, Rick was up until 5:30am working on the car! He would have drove it up and down the street this morning except for a small problem. The driver side axle he put together is a little too long. So, we are on a mad dash to try to find a Beretta axle? Rick has to work the next 3 days, then hopefully we can find something in the local yards on Tues. With only 2 weeks to WestFest, we need this asap! Wish us luck! Sure Sounds great though!



Jen


Isolde MSG #108, 06-27-2009 04:50 PM
      Looks like your engine is a little farther rearward than mine. And maybe a little tilted, so the "front" of the engine, as installed, is a little too high, and the "rear" a little too low. Also, seems your engine is a little farther to the passenger side. But I'm currently using a RWD LSX attached to my stock Muncie, moved 5/8" to the driver side per V8 Archie's method, with a 1/4" adapter plate. I appreciate the pics, after studying them I no longer want to try the LS4 water pump and water manifold, nor any of the LS4 exhaust parts.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #109, 06-28-2009 02:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

Looks like your engine is a little farther rearward than mine. And maybe a little tilted, so the "front" of the engine, as installed, is a little too high, and the "rear" a little too low. Also, seems your engine is a little farther to the passenger side. But I'm currently using a RWD LSX attached to my stock Muncie, moved 5/8" to the driver side per V8 Archie's method, with a 1/4" adapter plate. I appreciate the pics, after studying them I no longer want to try the LS4 water pump and water manifold, nor any of the LS4 exhaust parts.


It is flat and level, and part of the reason I cant use my Short Star axles is that is moved more to the driver side than the V6. Now the driver side axle is to long. Maybe the pics are a little deceiving? As far as I can tell it is centered front to rear. But I have not measured it.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #110, 06-28-2009 02:20 AM
      Looks like the stock deck lid springs can work?
I did do a trick or to first. ( note that it is not adjusted yet.)


The front right side.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 06-28-2009).]

Isolde MSG #111, 06-29-2009 01:48 PM
      then I guess I'd better re-measure mine. okay, thank you.

MinnGreenGT (minngreengt@gmail.com) MSG #112, 06-29-2009 05:29 PM
      Rick ~ here I am digging around for some pics of your car (a friend likes your paint scheme for inspiration)... and I stumble on this.

You are a mad man. Or a Mad Scientist... either way, this has been a simply amazing read. Hmmm... looks like you may need a new signature soon too!

BTW ~ you mentioned the shortstar being available? Can you PM me details on that if you've still got it? My Dad has always been really interested in one... and I can at least run it by him!



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #113, 06-30-2009 02:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by MinnGreenGT:

Rick ~ here I am digging around for some pics of your car (a friend likes your paint scheme for inspiration)... and I stumble on this.

You are a mad man. Or a Mad Scientist... either way, this has been a simply amazing read. Hmmm... looks like you may need a new signature soon too!

BTW ~ you mentioned the shortstar being available? Can you PM me details on that if you've still got it? My Dad has always been really interested in one... and I can at least run it by him!



Thanks. I will need to get a new sig ( I like the one you made for me ) But I guess I never really thought about how to change it?

I don't need the Short Star any more, but I did take parts off of it for this swap and the wire harness has suffered from my need for recyclables. But I did plan to replace the missing stuff for a "drop in" conversion.



JenzGT2 (jen-fizz@sbcglobal.net) MSG #114, 06-30-2009 04:48 PM
      Whoo Hooo! After searching through a huge pile of axles at the yard I think we found what we needed.

Driver axle is assembled and going in, lets see if we can get this baby rollin' today! (where is that peelin' out smilie?? )

Jen


Jefrysuko MSG #115, 06-30-2009 09:17 PM
      You mean this one?

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #116, 07-01-2009 02:18 AM
      Well I drove the car today. A little anti climatic but tomorrow will be a real drive.
I only drove it out of the garage and back in again. It drove in reverse fine but forward seemed like it was starting in fourth gear? It died a few times when I put it in forward so I gave it a little gas and it knocked and pinged then took off. It wont display the gear it is in on the dash? So I will replace the trans control module and see what happens.


TiredGXP MSG #117, 07-01-2009 08:09 AM
      Yeah, sounds like the TCM to me. My GP GXP exhibited the same behaviour when HPT crashed while writing an updated tune to the TCM, and then wouldn't attempt to write to the TCM again because of the prior "write error". Tech support gave me a patch about two days later that fixed the issue.

Cheers


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #118, 07-01-2009 12:34 PM
      OK, I changed out the TCM and I now have a dash displaying the gear it is in. So I hope this fixed the problem.
Fortunately I happened to find an LS4 Monte at a yard some time back and I picked up the TCM and PCM along with some other things
I planed on using the PCM for the "performance" tune and use the stock PCM for smog. The TCM came in handy already.


JenzGT2 (jen-fizz@sbcglobal.net) MSG #119, 07-02-2009 01:32 AM
      Rick wanted me to post this.. I forgot how to embed the video, sorry, if someone can educate me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ltEClPCEos


mcaanda (mcaanda@gmail.com) MSG #120, 07-02-2009 02:19 AM
     


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #121, 07-02-2009 02:39 AM
      Very cool!


JenzGT2 (jen-fizz@sbcglobal.net) MSG #122, 07-02-2009 02:50 AM
      Thanks for embedding that link Allen.

Rick just drove it up and down the street after bleeding the brakes. A neighbor taking the trash out at the same time told him it sounded good. You hear it coming for sure!

[This message has been edited by JenzGT2 (edited 07-02-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #123, 07-02-2009 03:07 AM
      You don't know how much restraint it took to just idle up and down the street a few times. I wanted to see if it could chirp the tires
The first few drives are going to be slow and easy just in case?



Toms88 (ltkel@netzero.com) MSG #124, 07-02-2009 10:33 AM
      Rick, great thread. You remind me of my brother, who is both patient and thorough. I wish I had either one of those qualities. . .
Looking at your pics gives me a faint glimmer of hope in making my old GT work better (but it will NEVER be up to your standards).
Outstanding job. Keep up the good work.
-Tom


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #125, 07-02-2009 10:29 PM
      I drove it to the gas station to get some gas. I only put in 5 gallons over what was in it. The gas station was unusually busy but I didn't mind, I had the attention on everybody there. This Ls4 really has a muscle car sound to it that really seems out of place for this car. It was pretty cool to drive up to the pump and have everyone in the place looking at you. lol I will try to have video of the car soon.

Rick


JenzGT2 (jen-fizz@sbcglobal.net) MSG #126, 07-02-2009 11:31 PM
      Well, I think this video is not all that exciting but Rick thought I should post it anyway. The car is coming together, hood and decklid on.




RumbleB MSG #127, 07-03-2009 12:05 AM
      Wow, you work fast! An interior and engine swap in less than a month.
Nice job!


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #128, 07-03-2009 12:14 AM
      I wish it was less than a month!

I actually started taking the car apart in March and then spending all of my weekends and home time getting as much done as I could, once I knew I was getting close I started the thread. There is still a lot of finish work to be done, I need to make custom door panels and center console. Work continues, but it is very nice to be able to drive it.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #129, 07-03-2009 01:17 AM
      A few pics before I quit for the night.


I am VERY happy that I was able to use the stock lid springs on this swap.
They are not exactly stock, but they did come on the car from the factory. I moved the dick lid hinge mount and bent the right side spring to fit between the coil and water fill cap. And I relocated the one coil that was under the spring, down to the water pump housing so the spring would have room to sit in the closed position.











cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #130, 07-03-2009 04:34 AM
      Looks great and sounds awesome Rick. Just curious if you have the intake air setup completed or is that on the list to be done?

Charlie



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #131, 07-03-2009 11:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Looks great and sounds awesome Rick. Just curious if you have the intake air setup completed or is that on the list to be done?

Charlie


To be done. I was not able to use the V6 system. I think for now I will just use a cone.



infinitewill MSG #132, 07-03-2009 11:33 AM
      .

[This message has been edited by infinitewill (edited 01-02-2016).]

motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #133, 07-03-2009 12:29 PM
      That is some seriously nice work.

Joe


Amida (robert.kusakabe@comcast.net) MSG #134, 07-03-2009 12:39 PM
      Great Job! That dash swap is crazy. I'd have to say it's probably the most difficult dash swap that I've seen on Pennocks. Do you do engine swaps for other people?...like in Washington.

[This message has been edited by Amida (edited 07-03-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #135, 07-03-2009 12:47 PM
      Thanks for the comments.

The seats are GREAT. I just sit and nearly fall asleep. My GT seats must be worn out because they seem like milk crates compared to the SRT4 seats.
The lay out of the interior is really nice. It feels like a 2008 Fiero. All little things really add up, like the exit lighting. I can adjust how long the dome lights stay on after I take out the key. The head lights stay on for 30 seconds after I get out of the car as a security/convenience measure. The drive information center has several settings that I can adjust. There are so many new and cool little tricks to the car now.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 07-03-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #136, 07-04-2009 01:34 PM
      Well a MUCH better test drive today and just one more thing to add to the list of to-do's.
The car runs good and does brake the 255's loose on the role. But at a dead stop a heavy foot will cause the electronic throttle to let off all the way? It just falls on it's face. I think the ECM TCM needs a tune?
This thing makes the 3.5 Twin Cam Short Star feel like the stock 2.8 V6 :O



TiredGXP MSG #137, 07-04-2009 02:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

But at a dead stop a heavy foot will cause the electronic throttle to let off all the way? It just falls on it's face. I think the ECM TCM needs a tune?
This thing makes the 3.5 Twin Cam Short Star feel like the stock 2.8 V6 :O


Yeah, some work on the torque management settings will really help. You may be experiencing the same issue that BLKCOFY had. Without the ABS sensors, the ECM may be kicking in "differential score protection" when it's not needed. When that happens the throttle closes so quickly it almost feels like something broke. I think Ryan ended up disabling that function.

I've left it active (it's an on/off switch in the tune), as it doesn't seem to kick in on the GP when accelerating in a straight line, only when being too agressive around a corner, which is probably the only time it needs to be active.

Cheers


hksteck84 MSG #138, 07-04-2009 03:00 PM
      WOW I'm pretty much speechless car is amazing. Good work....

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #139, 07-04-2009 03:55 PM
      Cool thanks.

The throttle does close so fast that it feels like it broke.


MordacP (mjmatthews559@comcast.net) MSG #140, 07-04-2009 08:50 PM
      Very cool!! Dont forget to edit you signature, it isn't up-to-date

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #141, 07-05-2009 02:33 AM
      I need to rewire the rear tail light harness. The Monte uses the brake lights as turn signals. The Fiero uses a dedicated turn and a duel park and brake light. The Monte also has a left and right side marker and brake circuit. So the tail lights need to come off again and do a little surgery under there.



RONT4.9 (rrthoeny@gmail.com) MSG #142, 07-05-2009 02:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TiredGXP:


Yeah, some work on the torque management settings will really help. You may be experiencing the same issue that BLKCOFY had. Without the ABS sensors, the ECM may be kicking in "differential score protection" when it's not needed. When that happens the throttle closes so quickly it almost feels like something broke. I think Ryan ended up disabling that function.

I've left it active (it's an on/off switch in the tune), as it doesn't seem to kick in on the GP when accelerating in a straight line, only when being too agressive around a corner, which is probably the only time it needs to be active.

Cheers


YEAH, I had the same problem with mine. ( also would not do a CASE learn) Ryan retuned the ECU and turned off the CASE learn code for me, and after a few start-ups the problem went away. WIERD! Been driving it for a year now and i must say, it's the best swap i have ever done. BTW, Your next problem will be trying to get traction from a stop.
Enjoy, RON


Isolde MSG #143, 07-06-2009 01:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

Cool thanks.

The throttle does close so fast that it feels like it broke.


doesn't GM have the programming to offset this with the IAC, or on later cars, the DBW, for emissions reasons? Abrupt lift-throttle is known to cause a sudden but brief spike of emissions, so the programming allows the rpm to come down more gradually, which might help smooth things out for you, maybe?


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #144, 07-08-2009 02:40 AM
      I don't like the DOD so much? At least not with the poly mounts. When the DOD kicks in the engine vibrates noticeably. A push on the throttle and V8 kicks in and smooths out. The DOD might be fine with rubber mounts, but the poly will take some getting used to.
If I don't see some good economy numbers I will have to do a DOD delete and a better intake manifold swap.


Isolde MSG #145, 07-08-2009 11:46 AM
      I'm going to have to do the delete to my LS4, since I'm turning it into an LS6, and the LS6 programming doesn't accomodate the DOD.

TiredGXP MSG #146, 07-08-2009 03:00 PM
      Your best bet if you want to go that route is to swap to the LS2 valley cover and plug the oil passages to the DOD lifters. With the LS2 valley cover, you'll be able to modify the OPSU mounting boss to fit an intake that accommodates the 90mm DBW throttle body. The LS4 can't be modified to fit a 90mm intake because the oil feed to the DOD lifters comes from the valley cover.




Isolde MSG #147, 07-08-2009 04:58 PM
      Thanks for the tip. I have a technical article somewhere in my files detailing the deletion of DOD, I'll dig it out tonight and see if it has any more useful info that might help Rickady88GT and everyone following this thread. So far, none of my LSX-owning customers have wanted me to perform this mod.

fierosareaddictive MSG #148, 07-08-2009 05:51 PM
      Just found this and I just wanted to say ......................hell, i'm at a loss for words. Amazing work.

TiredGXP MSG #149, 07-08-2009 07:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

Thanks for the tip. I have a technical article somewhere in my files detailing the deletion of DOD, I'll dig it out tonight and see if it has any more useful info that might help Rickady88GT and everyone following this thread. So far, none of my LSX-owning customers have wanted me to perform this mod.


Disabling DOD is simple in the tune - there's an on/off switch, I think it's located in the Engine-->Torque Management screen (at work now, can't see the tune).

Bolted to the bottom of the LS4 valley cover are four solenoids that control oil flow to the eight DOD lifters. When the solenoids engage, they let oil pressure push in a pin in the lifter that causes it to collapse rather than opening the valve. The interesting thing is that it's timed to trap an expended charge in the cylinder, so the deactivated cylinders act like "air springs".

The solenoids are normally "off", so if they fail, DOD is disabled. I suppose you could just unplug the connector under the throttle body to deactivate DOD, but this might throw a code.

Cheers


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #150, 07-08-2009 08:34 PM
      I think what I will do is look at the diagrams and figure out which one ( 1 ) wire will disable the lifters and run that wire to a switch. That way it can be turned on and off at will. In town when it bugs me the most, I can turn it off. On the freeway I can turn it back on.
It seems to turn on at speeds over 25 or so. The problem is that in 4th at 25-40 the RPMs are so low that a 4 banger just vibrates too much with hard mounts.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 07-08-2009).]

Isolde MSG #151, 07-10-2009 12:11 PM
      I build plenty of LSXs, I just don't do the tuning, as my shop doesn't have a chassis dyno. I do give my customers printouts to give to whomever does their tune, but this info about turning it off in the programming won't help, especially since my ecm or ecu is a pre-DOD version. Much easier to change a later 58x reluctor wheel to an older 24x if necessary.
Rickady88GT, I sure hope you'll now revisit AV8Fiero's thread on LS4/F40, I added some info there you may find helpful.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #152, 07-16-2009 03:10 AM
      Rickady,
If you don't mind me asking, I happened to run across the same rims you have on the tire rack, and it looks tempting. I saw that they offer the rims in both a 7" and 8" width. My car in an '88, and I was going to run a 255/40R17 (on 8" rims) in back and 215/45R17 (on 7" rims) in front. What size are your tires and rims, and are yours the 38mm as well?
Also, I'm plannig on using struts, not coilovers, any fitment issues?

If you wouldn't mind, can you post the tire sizes you went with? I love the stance of your car.

** edited to include my plans for wheel width stagger ***

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 07-16-2009).]

mcaanda (mcaanda@gmail.com) MSG #153, 07-16-2009 10:45 AM
      Why is this not in Construction yet?

Looks super sweet too Rick, I only can wish that my install looks half that clean when completed.

--Allen


Isolde MSG #154, 07-16-2009 01:42 PM
      Aaronkoch, I know you weren't asking me, but I'd suggest a 205/50 on a 7" front and a 225/45 on an 8" rear would be a better match. A guy in my Fiero club runs that exact setup on his '88. I'm not sure what offsets.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #155, 07-16-2009 02:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

Rickady,
If you don't mind me asking, I happened to run across the same rims you have on the tire rack, and it looks tempting. I saw that they offer the rims in both a 7" and 8" width. My car in an '88, and I was going to run a 255/40R17 (on 8" rims) in back and 215/45R17 (on 7" rims) in front. What size are your tires and rims, and are yours the 38mm as well?
Also, I'm plannig on using struts, not coilovers, any fitment issues?

If you wouldn't mind, can you post the tire sizes you went with? I love the stance of your car.

** edited to include my plans for wheel width stagger ***




It sounds like those are the exact size rims I have on my 88 front off set is 38mm and rear is 35mm. The only difference in tire size is my rears are 255 45 17. I needed the diameter to be the same as the Intrigue so my speedo would be correct for the Short Star.
I lowered my front over 2" and the rear .5". I do rub a little on the front in hard turns. But it is not rubbing the fender, it rubs the black plastic inner fender well.
I have stock Fiero springs cut down.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #156, 07-16-2009 02:09 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mcaanda:

Why is this not in Construction yet?

Looks super sweet too Rick, I only can wish that my install looks half that clean when completed.

--Allen


Thanks, the sound is what I realy like



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #157, 07-16-2009 02:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

Aaronkoch, I know you weren't asking me, but I'd suggest a 205/50 on a 7" front and a 225/45 on an 8" rear would be a better match. A guy in my Fiero club runs that exact setup on his '88. I'm not sure what offsets.



I love the looks of my combo. I would like to get a stiffer aftermarket front spring then it will just right.


aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #158, 07-16-2009 03:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

Aaronkoch, I know you weren't asking me, but I'd suggest a 205/50 on a 7" front and a 225/45 on an 8" rear would be a better match. A guy in my Fiero club runs that exact setup on his '88. I'm not sure what offsets.



Personally, I prefer when the tire is slightly wider than the rim, as Rickady's is. a 205 tire is about 8" wide, and a 7" rim (measured at bead seat, whereas section width is measured at tread) is only just under 8". I like the tires to be wider for looks, as well as curb protection, in case of flat, etc.

Come on! They're 80's cars, I don't have a mullet, so how else am I gonna look badass??


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #159, 07-23-2009 01:33 AM
      Fiero West Fest was cool. I had to trailer the car for the first time I had a cooling issue. When I put the LS4 in I took out a custom restricting orifice in the heater hose. I wrongly figured that the LS4 had a built in orifice in the water pump heater circuit. The missing restricter caused the water to cycle thru the heater core more than the radiator. The car would seem fine for a few miles but would heat up quickly after the water in the heater core and engine block got worm. The engine would be over heated but the radiator would barely be worm. So I made a new orifice when I got back and installed it in the heater line. Now it runs great.

This is three years of West Fest and the first year with the LS4.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #160, 07-23-2009 01:45 AM
      This is West Coast Fiero's twin cam 4.0 turbo.

Sounds great, looks AWSOM

The car is not done yet, so I had to enter it in the work in progress.




I will try to make some new video soon.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #161, 07-23-2009 02:12 AM
      I took the car out last night for a 45+min drive. This is imposable to recognize as a Fiero from inside at night. The new dash and new color lights set this car in a different class. I now have blue lights on all my switches and orange gauges.

I need to try to get a good night pic of the lights.




[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 07-23-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #162, 07-23-2009 12:41 PM
      My tire diameter is a little smaller than the donor car tire. Mine are a little over 26" and the Monte was about 27". So my speedo is about 2mph slower than the speedo shows. This affects my instant fuel economy settings a little. As of my last long drive the D.I.C. shows 36-40 mpg in one direction and 30-34 in the other. Note that the wind and slope do affect MPG so an accurate reading needs to have both directions in the calculation. This is with the D.O.D. on. In V8 mode the instant economy drops to 25mpg at best. I know this is not accurate enough to bet money on but does give an idea of what is going on. I am keeping all my gas tank fill receipts to accurately calculate the real MPG.

2.5 MSG #163, 07-23-2009 01:29 PM
      Nice work

Isolde MSG #164, 07-23-2009 03:02 PM
      time to start with the engine mods! or add some boost. a t76 is a good way to go for a stock 5.3, but a pair of T4S04s would let you be at full boost several hundred rpm sooner, and take the power level a bit higher.

madcurl (madcurl@fiero-performance.com) MSG #165, 07-23-2009 03:58 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
The car is not done yet, so I had to enter it in the work in progress.




I will try to make some new video soon.


Very, very nice Rick. Your attention to detail is beyond normal. Keep up the good work.



Nashco (nashco@hotmail.com) MSG #166, 07-23-2009 04:31 PM
      You're right to use the "indicated" MPG as a guideline, but in reality it's not really good for much. On my Sky, the indicated fuel economy and the ACTUAL fuel economy (using miles driven on the tank divided by gallons to fill the tank) are rarely the same. They are usually within about 15% of each other in either direction.

That's a bummer that you couldn't drive the car, as you've obviously put enough effort into this car to make it much more than a trailer queen. Keep us posted, and thanks for the update. I really dig that interior, now you've got me wanting to find a wrecked Malibu! It's a shame they only come with autos...

Bryce


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #167, 07-24-2009 01:40 AM
      X2.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 07-24-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #168, 07-24-2009 01:42 AM
      Thanks for the comments.

The car should be smog certified before I even think about mods The ref might not think it is so cool with turbos? If I get it thru him first then I can do the other "little" things

I look forward to the new door panels and center console

My Short Star got an all around average of about 26mpg. I would be very happy to get better than that with a V8.

The Malibu dash is a bit tight on the leg room. The Malibu has a very tall driver cabin and the dash is tall too. I would make custom lower halves if I were to do this again so I could get 2" moor leg room at the lowest part of the dash. As it is now I just move the pedals all the way forward and the seat all the way rearward and my legs lay flat enough to clear the bottom of the dash. If I move the pedals or seat together, my shins hit the bottom of the dash. My wife has no problem.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 07-24-2009).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #169, 07-27-2009 02:31 AM
      I have over 300 miles on it after the swap and the last 115 cost me about 5 gallons. That is an average of 20mpg. I calculated the the exact miles per gallon to 20.48 mpg. The DIC says 21.2. So that is not bad for an estimate from the DIC. That is actually much closer to the actual than I thought it would be.

Passing power is MUCH better than the Short Star. I used to get to 80 passing a single car. Now I get to 100 if I let up just after overtaking the car. 0-60 is much better too.No "real" numbers but if I try to hard the PCM shuts down the throttle. So where it is now will be dwarfed by the post PCM tune latter.


ArbinShire MSG #170, 07-27-2009 02:53 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:



I will try to make some new video soon.


Isn't that shifter a little close to the dashboard?


hksteck84 MSG #171, 07-27-2009 09:14 AM
      I have to say the build is most impressive, and I give you 2 thumbs up on the dash build. But I'm hoping your not completely finished with the center console. I see some MAJOR POTENTIAL with the center console... KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

Isolde MSG #172, 07-27-2009 11:06 AM
      As long as the turbos aren't between the exhaust manifolds and the cat(s), you're golden. just because Squires patented the rear-turbo concept with camaros doesn't mean you can't put a T76 or a pair of T4S04s after your cat(s) so long as you don't try to sell a kit. Nashco, maybe you've missed it elsewhere, but the LS4 with a manual tranms is as simple as boring the LS4 to 5.7L, plugging the DoD, and running it as an LS6, which is what I'm working on. Plus it fits better than a real LS6 with the Archie kit. You can have the 58x reluctor replaced with a 24x when you have the crank rebalanced for the larger pistons. Then just use the Ls6 programming and cam. the dbw tb is no issue, the LS4 heads are the same as the LS6 except for the valve stems, it's super easy.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #173, 07-27-2009 12:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ArbinShire:


Isn't that shifter a little close to the dashboard?


It may be hard to tell but the shifter is cut down 2-3 inches (one of the few short auto shifters" and moved back about 3". It is in "Park" in that pic and I have 2' between the shifter and dash. For comparison my Olds Intrigue has 2.5" between the shifter and dash. So this on may be closer than a stock Fiero but I have plenty of room when the shifter is in drive. In park I can still put Cd's in the 6 disk in dash Radio. The heater controls are under the Radio so the radio is completely unobstructed. I can adjust any function on the heater controls even in Park without the shifter getting in the way..



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #174, 07-27-2009 12:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by hksteck84:

I have to say the build is most impressive, and I give you 2 thumbs up on the dash build. But I'm hoping your not completely finished with the center console. I see some MAJOR POTENTIAL with the center console... KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.


Thanks, the center cover is just a piece of carpet with a hand made shifter boot. It is not the center console. I ran out of time for the West Fest Fiero show. I tossed that over the metal tunnel just to hide the tunnel for the show. I did not even have enough time to cover the doors. I have an idea how I will do the doors and center console but they will be latter.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #175, 07-27-2009 12:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

As long as the turbos aren't between the exhaust manifolds and the cat(s), you're golden. just because Squires patented the rear-turbo concept with camaros doesn't mean you can't put a T76 or a pair of T4S04s after your cat(s) so long as you don't try to sell a kit. Nashco, maybe you've missed it elsewhere, but the LS4 with a manual tranms is as simple as boring the LS4 to 5.7L, plugging the DoD, and running it as an LS6, which is what I'm working on. Plus it fits better than a real LS6 with the Archie kit. You can have the 58x reluctor replaced with a 24x when you have the crank rebalanced for the larger pistons. Then just use the Ls6 programming and cam. the dbw tb is no issue, the LS4 heads are the same as the LS6 except for the valve stems, it's super easy.



We need to talk


Nashco (nashco@hotmail.com) MSG #176, 07-27-2009 12:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

Nashco, maybe you've missed it elsewhere, but the LS4 with a manual tranms is as simple as boring the LS4 to 5.7L, plugging the DoD, and running it as an LS6, which is what I'm working on.


Isolde, maybe you've imagined it elsewhere, but I never said anything about mating a manual trans to an LS4. I like all of the engines available in the Malibu (Ecotec BAS, 3500 w/ E85, 3600...all great swap candidates) and I think swapping the interior along with the powertrain would be great; similar to what Rickady's done, except without the Monte engine/Malibu interior complexity. The only thing I don't like about that idea is going with an auto, since that's all that was available in the Malibu.

Bryce


Isolde MSG #177, 07-27-2009 03:36 PM
      Sorry I misunderstood. I saw it as you wishing for a legal way to have a manual trans with a Malibu engine, and thus the LS4, the only FWD engine on earth worth having. My apologies.

hksteck84 MSG #178, 07-27-2009 05:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


Thanks, the center cover is just a piece of carpet with a hand made shifter boot. It is not the center console. I ran out of time for the West Fest Fiero show. I tossed that over the metal tunnel just to hide the tunnel for the show. I did not even have enough time to cover the doors. I have an idea how I will do the doors and center console but they will be latter.


Well I can't wait to see the new improvments. This build has really inspired me, and again keep up the good work.


Bruce (biden@pacbell.net) MSG #179, 07-27-2009 06:51 PM
      Rick,
You make us Central Californians very proud!
bb


RONT4.9 (rrthoeny@gmail.com) MSG #180, 07-28-2009 01:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

I have over 300 miles on it after the swap and the last 115 cost me about 5 gallons. That is an average of 20mpg. I calculated the the exact miles per gallon to 20.48 mpg. The DIC says 21.2. So that is not bad for an estimate from the DIC. That is actually much closer to the actual than I thought it would be.

Passing power is MUCH better than the Short Star. I used to get to 80 passing a single car. Now I get to 100 if I let up just after overtaking the car. 0-60 is much better too.No "real" numbers but if I try to hard the PCM shuts down the throttle. So where it is now will be dwarfed by the post PCM tune latter.


Don't have the DIC in mine, but using the trip meter i have checked mine a couple of times and it's averaging 22mpg overall. (I have the interceptor gauge and my speedo is vary accurate ) Also my car is the basic 88 coupe, so it may be a little lighter.


Fieroking (sokolja@roadrunner.com) MSG #181, 08-02-2009 11:58 PM
      All I can say is WOW.

Makes my puny efforts with my 4.9 and 3.4 DOHC pale in comparison.

Excellent work

Joe Sokol



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #182, 08-03-2009 12:51 PM
      Thanks, I have been camping with the Jeep and have not done a lot to the Fiero.









I did start to relocate the door speakers. They interfeared with dash and had to be taken out just to shut the doors. I made a blank off plate for the hole I cut, then mounted the speakers about 2" further back (away from the dash). I am not sure were to put the tweeters yet. This Monte Carlo radio needs an adaptor to use an aftermarket amp and subs. So that will be put off too I can use the 6 disc in radio changer and I pod jack but cant use the Tuner yet. I shaved my antenna before the paint job and and laid it down under the fender. I also mounted a second antenna under the driver fender. The problem is that this radio has different style antenna plugs for the windshield type antenna and won't plug into the ones I have in the car So I need to get a "Y" fitting to link the two Fiero antennas together then an adaptor to link the Fiero antennas to the Monte radio? If any one has suggestions I would appreciate them

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 08-03-2009).]

1986 Fiero GT (trevorjecklund@gmail.com) MSG #183, 08-03-2009 08:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

This Monte Carlo radio needs an adaptor to use an aftermarket amp and subs.



Yes, you will need at the very least a line output converter, which can be found readily at your local Best Buy or custom shop. Basically, it takes a high (speaker) lever signal and transforms it into a low (line) level input for an amp. If you want very high fidelity, I recommend an Audio Control LC7, but anything with at least 4 channels should work fine. These are generally "better," because you get far more adjustability, they're generally built better and you'll get strong (~5V) pre-outs to your amps. Definitely the best route. These can be picked up from online, or possibly your local custom shop, depending on how much they deal with things like this.


 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

The problem is that this radio has different style antenna plugs for the windshield type antenna and won't plug into the ones I have in the car So I need to get a "Y" fitting to link the two Fiero antennas together then an adaptor to link the Fiero antennas to the Monte radio? If any one has suggestions I would appreciate them



Yea, a standard Y-adapter should work fine for connecting the two, and can possibly be found at Best Buy or your local custom shop, but that guy may very well need to come from online. We never had them at Circuit City. You could always just make your own, too. For going into the factory deck, you'll need a 40CR20 if it's a Metra part. I'm not sure what American International or Scosche call them, but it's the same part. Basically a female connector for the standard Motorola antenna connector found on your Fiero antenna, and a male Chrysler (yea, that's right...GM used Chrysler antenna connectors for their newer cars) plug to go into the OE Monte deck. Your local Best Buy or custom shop will have this. We use them all the time for satellite radio installs. Just make sure you give them the year and make and model of the car, but I'm 99.99% sure it's a 40CR20.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #184, 08-03-2009 09:26 PM
      Cool, thank you very much. Would it be better if I just used some sort of after market add on windshield antenna? IF they even exist?

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #185, 08-04-2009 12:54 AM
      Or you can replace the "stock" deck with a double DIN touch screen and use your amp. I'm not sure if you're going for the "factory GM" look though.
Stock stereo's tend to be really bad for sound quality. Line level adapters work, but they have only so much source material to deal with. Besides, you won't get HD radio. - I hear it's all the rage now.


DRKORN MSG #186, 08-04-2009 02:18 AM
      Not showing my flyfisherman colors here or anything but, AWESOME brown trout!

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #187, 08-04-2009 02:56 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DRKORN:

Not showing my flyfisherman colors here or anything but, AWESOME brown trout!


Thanks. Catch and release. It may still be there
That was the only fish I got. AND it was the very last "cast".
The day before, I tied spinners and cast masters but the fish laughed at me.
This day my wife and kids wanted to swim in that pool. But I wanted to fish with my daughter first. So an hour or so of my daughter taking the tiny gold hook tied directly to the line with a cricket around the pool and tossing it into the creek, I finally got one.
I saw the fish take the cricket so I "set the hook" but there was to much slack in the line. I thought it was gone, the fish took another cricket. So I reeled in the line and about half the line in I felt a huge tug. It was on, a great fight. I landed the fish and the hook just fell out of its mouth. It never set. I just kept the tension on the line and it stayed.



this is the pool I got the fish from. My daughter would walk the hook all the way around the top and drop the cricket in the small bowl at the top and it would fall down the little water fall and go it's natural flow down stream.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #188, 08-22-2009 01:19 AM
      OK, I finally ran out of gas today. The fill up was 10.38 gal + the 1 gal from the reserve can. After the tank mods I still have an 11+ gal tank. I went 229 miles on a full tank of gas and that comes out to 20.13 MPG. Not as good as the last tank of gas at 20.48. BUT this time I drove around town in 3rd gear instead of 4th so the DOD does not turn on in town. The polly mounts and 1,000 RPM at 30mph causes to much vibration, and I don't like the sound of a V8 4 cylinder.
I get some black soot in the tail pipes too, so a good dyno tune should help the economy and power?


I tried to get some video but the camera is in bad shape ( to much trail dust from 4 wheelin) and the quality sux.


DeLorean00 (twincam18@aol.com) MSG #189, 08-22-2009 12:09 PM
      Once again, Nice Jeep! I love Cherokees!

Also awesome Fiero! You build some great machines!


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #190, 08-23-2009 01:45 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DeLorean00:

Once again, Nice Jeep! I love Cherokees!

Also awesome Fiero! You build some great machines!



Thanks, I want to swap a V8 into the Jeep next How about a 6.2 Escalade with the 6 speed auto?


hye_4_life MSG #191, 08-23-2009 01:47 AM
      Rick, where did you go for your camping trip? It looks real nice there.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #192, 08-23-2009 11:42 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by hye_4_life:

Rick, where did you go for your camping trip? It looks real nice there.


That spot is "off the beaten path" but is in the Dinky Creek area.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #193, 09-16-2009 08:34 PM
      Getting better, 25mpg.
I still have not had it "tuned" so I think it can be better.


Isolde MSG #194, 09-17-2009 10:01 AM
      I expect it to get much better, because I had a '78 Camaro, with the big rear spoiler, and a carbureted 350, that got 25 mpg. You have 25 less cubic inches, modern EFI, and better aerodynamics. Keep at it!

FierOmar (davidcordier@sbcglobal.net) MSG #195, 09-18-2009 10:23 AM
      I know you mentioned that a manual trans would not be smog compliant. However, my question is whether this engine would bolt up to the same bell housing as the 2.8-3.4, 3.8, 4.9, etc.?



Isolde MSG #196, 09-18-2009 11:06 AM
      FierOmar, The LS4 will bolt right up to the same transaxles as the other engines you list, without an adapter plate. And even better, it can be emissions legal, all it takes is boring the LS4 to 5.7L, then using the following stuff from an LS6 as found in the Z06 'vette: pistons, cam, intake, and computer. Then you get it smogged as an LS6. The biggest hassle is getting the LS4 crank rebalanced for the LS6 pistons.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #197, 09-18-2009 12:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

FierOmar, The LS4 will bolt right up to the same transaxles as the other engines you list, without an adapter plate. And even better, it can be emissions legal, all it takes is boring the LS4 to 5.7L, then using the following stuff from an LS6 as found in the Z06 'vette: pistons, cam, intake, and computer. Then you get it smogged as an LS6. The biggest hassle is getting the LS4 crank rebalanced for the LS6 pistons.


Not in CA. ALL they care about is the numbers on the block. The engine has to have the smog equipment that GM assigned to the block. The ref will check it. I even had to go to the CHP for an inspection to verify that the engine was not stolen property.
Now I will say that later you could change out the block and convert it to an LS6, but only after the initial certification and even then it will still be smog legal as an auto because the cert sticker. A better way to do it is to start with a manual equip engine. Certify that then swap to a LS4 block. Bu you have to ask yourself if it is worth all the trouble?



FierOmar (davidcordier@sbcglobal.net) MSG #198, 09-18-2009 01:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FierOmar:
I know you mentioned that a manual trans would not be smog compliant. However, my question is whether this engine would bolt up to the same bell housing as the 2.8-3.4, 3.8, 4.9, etc.?


 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:
FierOmar, The LS4 will bolt right up to the same transaxles as the other engines you list, without an adapter plate. And even better, it can be emissions legal, all it takes is boring the LS4 to 5.7L, then using the following stuff from an LS6 as found in the Z06 'vette: pistons, cam, intake, and computer. Then you get it smogged as an LS6. The biggest hassle is getting the LS4 crank rebalanced for the LS6 pistons.


 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
Not in CA. ALL they care about is the numbers on the block. The engine has to have the smog equipment that GM assigned to the block. The ref will check it. I even had to go to the CHP for an inspection to verify that the engine was not stolen property.
Now I will say that later you could change out the block and convert it to an LS6, but only after the initial certification and even then it will still be smog legal as an auto because the cert sticker. A better way to do it is to start with a manual equip engine. Certify that then swap to a LS4 block. Bu you have to ask yourself if it is worth all the trouble?


Let me mention that my primary interest has been track performance (road racing)... not street. So, I really don't need to worry about smog, referees, etc.

So, looking at the various transmission options, any vote for the best choice?


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #199, 09-18-2009 01:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FierOmar:


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
Not in CA. ALL they care about is the numbers on the block. The engine has to have the smog equipment that GM assigned to the block. The ref will check it. I even had to go to the CHP for an inspection to verify that the engine was not stolen property.
Now I will say that later you could change out the block and convert it to an LS6, but only after the initial certification and even then it will still be smog legal as an auto because the cert sticker. A better way to do it is to start with a manual equip engine. Certify that then swap to a LS4 block. Bu you have to ask yourself if it is worth all the trouble?


Let me mention that my primary interest has been track performance... not street. So, I really don't need to worry about smog, referees, etc.

So, looking at the various transmission options, any vote for the best choice?
[/QUOTE]

By "track" do you mean strip or coarse?
The easiest (as if there is such a thing) way to brake neck power from an all aluminum V8 is to get an LS3 with an Archie 6 speed F40 kit.
But since this LS4 is not my idea of the ultimate Fiero I will have to drive it till I get around to building a 6 speed LS3. But I don't plan to use the Archie kit. I have other ideas I would like to try.



FierOmar (davidcordier@sbcglobal.net) MSG #200, 09-18-2009 03:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


By "track" do you mean strip or coarse?
The easiest (as if there is such a thing) way to brake neck power from an all aluminum V8 is to get an LS3 with an Archie 6 speed F40 kit.
But since this LS4 is not my idea of the ultimate Fiero I will have to drive it till I get around to building a 6 speed LS3. But I don't plan to use the Archie kit. I have other ideas I would like to try.


Road course (of course). And for such an application, I'm not so sure that a six speed gearbox would be needed although I do have one. I'm thinking 5 speed Getrag would do the trick. I happen to have one from a Fiero, a Beretta GTZ, and an Olds SCX with W41 option. I am thinking that the Beretta GTZ probably has the best overall gear ratios and final drive ratio for an LS4. As always, your thoughts and comments are appreciated.



Sharkman MSG #201, 09-18-2009 03:57 PM
      Wow, this is one amazing build. Love the dash. CanĀ“t wait to see the new doorskins.



Isolde MSG #202, 09-18-2009 04:47 PM
      California is stupid. The only difference between an LS4 block and a real LS6 block is the rear face. The LS4 block is the better fit for Fieros, while the LS6 package is the best configuration that can both be built into an LS4 block AND was certified with a manual. The best trans for a truly serious LSX Fiero has to be the NSX 6-speed. Go ahead and try the Getrag, but when you've had enough of it, ...

FierOmar (davidcordier@sbcglobal.net) MSG #203, 09-19-2009 09:40 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

California is stupid. The only difference between an LS4 block and a real LS6 block is the rear face. The LS4 block is the better fit for Fieros, while the LS6 package is the best configuration that can both be built into an LS4 block AND was certified with a manual. The best trans for a truly serious LSX Fiero has to be the NSX 6-speed. Go ahead and try the Getrag, but when you've had enough of it, ...


Any cost estimate re: the NSX 6-speed? I tend to believe they might be a little hard to find in the boneyard... but I could be wrong.

Aside from that, I don't think 6 forward gears would be needed which is why I have discounted the viability of the F40. While I recognize that there may be a better choice for almost any part that I might choose, I need to keep things within a reasonable budget.

I'm also thinking of putting together a Fiero based car for the 24 Hours of Lemons event at Buttonwillow next year. Ran a Neon at the August '09 event, and it actually performed quite well. At least it had some Fiero parts on it... see if you can spot them.

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=347948

http://forums.neons.org/vie...ic.php?f=51&t=343531

I don't want to hijack Rick's thread, so I will start another thread dedicated to the racing issues. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/103464.html

In the meantime, I will consider this as a bump of the current thread along with my compliments on what appears to be an excellent job.

Couple last questions: Mated to one of the Fiero transmissions, would the LS4 fit into the engine compartment without any cutting on the passenger side? And, I have been told that the all aluminum LS4 actually weighs less than the 2.8. Is this true?


Footnote: At least one person on the Lemons forum thinks that a Fiero is a bad choice for the Lemons event. "Epic, unreliable sharts that illicit smiles from the judges' faces: Anything British, Anything French, Anything Russian, Fieros, ALMOST everything in GM's product portfolio from 1963-1984." See:
http://forums.24hoursoflemo...opic.php?id=1202&p=3

Almost sounds like a challenge.



Isolde MSG #204, 09-19-2009 02:42 PM
      I started my Fiero project with a truck LM7 5.3L, which is a bit longer than the LS4, attached to a 1/4"-thich steel adapter plate, and attached that to my stock '84 Muncie 4-speed transaxle, which was moved about 5/8" to the driver's side per Archie's method. You can see how well everything fit in my build thread on the other Fiero forum. The fit is the exact same with the Getrag 5-speed, which I also tried.

Sofa King MSG #205, 09-25-2009 03:54 PM
      Bump!

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #206, 10-11-2009 11:31 PM
      Some poor vidio of the car, but it was a fun drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWDw1Ugi654

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiFdBxKgwNs


gt88norm MSG #207, 10-12-2009 09:11 PM
      Fun, fun, fun!
Hope that radio display was a sync. thing w/the camera, that'd drive me nuts if it were like that all the time.

Norm


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #208, 10-13-2009 02:05 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by gt88norm:

Fun, fun, fun!
Hope that radio display was a sync. thing w/the camera, that'd drive me nuts if it were like that all the time.

Norm


HaHa, yes that is one of those video anomalies.

We could not get a "good" video because the camera is old and beat up. We tried to set it on the center console but the sub is in there and shakes the camera up pretty good and is to low to see over the dash. Then holding the camera does not work all that well either.



Nashco (nashco@hotmail.com) MSG #209, 10-28-2009 12:37 PM
      Any updates?

fieromadman (j_depies@hotmail.com) MSG #210, 10-29-2009 03:53 AM
      WOW, just WOW!

Awesome work!

Updates?



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #211, 10-29-2009 11:09 AM
      I took the tank out and adjusted the fuel level float. The gauge would stay at full for about 60+ miles before it would start to drop. Then it would run out of fuel at about 1/4 tank. It now stays on full for about 15 miles and runs out after the needle drops below the red zone (past empty). That way I know I have fuel in the tank as long as the needle is between the empty and full lines. The BCM is calculated for an 18gal tank or so, and that throws my estimated miles remaining way off. It starts out at 370+ miles on a 12gal Fiero tank, but I only get about 300-max. But the instant and average economy estimates are close.

The (default traction control) transmission abuse settings were killing me. So I took it to West Coast Fiero and Chris reflashed the ECM and took care of that problem. Now I can give it full throttle and reduce tire life expectancy by exponential amounts
I will make a list of things to change and take it back to WCF for some more improvements.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #212, 10-29-2009 11:44 PM
      As a side note, while at WCF one of the guys there had a decometer? It tested the sound decibels of the muffler less exhaust system on the LS4.
The "law" says 95 decibels at 10 foot behind the car at 45* angle to the side and running at about 3000-4500 rpm depending on its red line. Mine was well under 95db at the 3000 rpm park red line. I think mine was closer to 80db?


Isolde MSG #213, 10-31-2009 11:30 AM
      must be the late exhaust opening. Great for low-rpm torque, not so great for high rpm HP.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #214, 11-10-2009 11:42 AM
      Well I cant drive the car any more, I smoked the tire tread totally gone. I have to save up for a new set of tires.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #215, 01-02-2010 02:41 AM
      Just a bump





unboundmo (unboundmo@aol.com) MSG #216, 01-02-2010 03:34 AM
      STOP SHOWIN OFF...... j/k.. great build rick!

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #217, 01-03-2010 07:23 PM
     

Charlie



Nashco (nashco@hotmail.com) MSG #218, 01-05-2010 03:41 PM
      Looks like you need better tires.

LZeppelin513 (bjamestate@gmail.com) MSG #219, 01-06-2010 01:44 AM
      Sounds sweet, awesome build!

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #220, 01-06-2010 02:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Nashco:

Looks like you need better tires.


Yep, the tires are KUMHO exta. They are now so bald that the cap belt (overlay) is exposed. BUT before the burnouts they were OK. BTW I did a few other burnouts that were not filmed, and the two that did get filmed were just "practice". After inspecting the tire wear, I "parked" the car pending new shoes.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #221, 01-06-2010 02:15 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by LZeppelin513:

Sounds sweet, awesome build!



Thanks, it really is a fun car to drive. I drive it a lot more now with the V8 than I did with the Short Star V6.


blkpearl (bodylinesfitness@cox.net) MSG #222, 01-07-2010 12:18 AM
      Rick did you use the 4T65E transmission?

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #223, 01-07-2010 12:28 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by blkpearl:

Rick did you use the 4T65E transmission?

Yep, everything that came one the engine was installed in the car.



FieroFerrari (irishusa6076@att.net) MSG #224, 01-08-2010 03:09 AM
      I am very impressed by the fantastic work going into this build. This is a great car now.

josef644 (josef644@hotmail.com) MSG #225, 01-08-2010 08:28 PM
      I have just read this entire thread. You did a wonderful job. My hat is off to you Sir
Joe Crawford


dobey MSG #226, 02-23-2010 05:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
To get the steering wheel controles to work I had to do some surgery. NOT FUN

This is the tap shift and right control.


GM uses resistors to very the volts when the buttons are pressed. Basicaly the BCM is an OHM meter and will perform diferent functions when it sees the values it has in its memory. The problem is that the Malibu has much diferent resistance values than the Monte has. So the steering wheel is not a direct swap for the Monte BCM.


Are the buttons in the steering wheel actually lit blue, or is that just due to lighting in taking the picture?

And also, do you know what all the resistance values are for what the Malibu wheel puts out? I'm using the same wheel, but with a power tilt column out of a Caddy STS. I'm going to have to do a little more work anyway, since the Caddy has cruise on the turn stalk instead of the wheel. But I was wondering if you knew what the output ohm values are for the Malibu wheel. Thanks. Great job on the swap! I can't wait to get my LS4 too.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #227, 02-24-2010 10:56 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Are the buttons in the steering wheel actually lit blue, or is that just due to lighting in taking the picture?

And also, do you know what all the resistance values are for what the Malibu wheel puts out? I'm using the same wheel, but with a power tilt column out of a Caddy STS. I'm going to have to do a little more work anyway, since the Caddy has cruise on the turn stalk instead of the wheel. But I was wondering if you knew what the output ohm values are for the Malibu wheel. Thanks. Great job on the swap! I can't wait to get my LS4 too.


Yes they are all lighted, even the "+" on the tap shift buttons.
I don't know what all your values are? I have the values for the Monte and Malibu but not the Caddy. I used the Monte Carlo steering column because the Malibu had different controls on it that were not "compatible" with the Malibu dash wheel and Monte electronics combo. But the wheel control of the Monte were almost totally inconsistent with the Malibu controls. So it would be a "safe bet" to say the Caddy are also of different values.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #228, 02-24-2010 11:00 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroFerrari:

I am very impressed by the fantastic work going into this build. This is a great car now.


Looks like you are, what...about 40-45 minutes away? Maybe we should get together and talk shop some day?



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #229, 02-24-2010 11:01 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:

I have just read this entire thread. You did a wonderful job. My hat is off to you Sir
Joe Crawford


Thank you. It is far from done but is still very fun



Brastic (shanew@brastic.com) MSG #230, 02-24-2010 12:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

As a side note, while at WCF one of the guys there had a decometer? It tested the sound decibels of the muffler less exhaust system on the LS4.
The "law" says 95 decibels at 10 foot behind the car at 45* angle to the side and running at about 3000-4500 rpm depending on its red line. Mine was well under 95db at the 3000 rpm park red line. I think mine was closer to 80db?


The distance is 20 inches, not 10 feet.

http://www.celicahobby.com/...Bulletin-Exhaust.pdf


dobey MSG #231, 02-24-2010 01:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
Yes they are all lighted, even the "+" on the tap shift buttons.
I don't know what all your values are? I have the values for the Monte and Malibu but not the Caddy. I used the Monte Carlo steering column because the Malibu had different controls on it that were not "compatible" with the Malibu dash wheel and Monte electronics combo. But the wheel control of the Monte were almost totally inconsistent with the Malibu controls. So it would be a "safe bet" to say the Caddy are also of different values.


Interesting. Guess I will work on changing the LEDs in the buttons too, if they're all blue.
I think your issues with the different resistor values was all to do with the BCM? That doesn't matter as much to me, as I'll be building a custom BCM and stereo system in my car. Since I have to change the LEDs anyway, and some other custom wiring, I guess I can just see what the values are myself. Thanks for the info!


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #232, 02-24-2010 03:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Brastic:


The distance is 20 inches, not 10 feet.

http://www.celicahobby.com/...Bulletin-Exhaust.pdf


After some very complex mathematical calculations concerning the difference between 10' and 20" I have concluded that the decibels emitted by the 5.3 may be slightly outside the "legal" limit



Isolde MSG #233, 02-24-2010 05:18 PM
      easiest remedied by adding a Supertrapp. :-) Or if that's what you're already using, remove a few discs.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #234, 02-25-2010 12:04 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

easiest remedied by adding a Supertrapp. :-) Or if that's what you're already using, remove a few discs.


I don't like the "super trap", I think I would rather continue driving without a muffler for a few more years. I like my C6 tips. They really do a good job of keeping down the noise.



dobey MSG #235, 02-28-2010 06:14 PM
      Hey Rick. I don't think it's mentioned in the thread anywhere, but what ignition switch and keys are you using? I'm looking for something more modern to replace mine with, since I'm having to move it for the steering column swap, and was wondering if it's particularly hard to deal with the "security" bits in the new switches, or if you can just ignore connecting them in a car without a BCM to deal with? Thanks again for all the info in your thread. It's an awesome build!

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #236, 03-02-2010 12:15 PM
      I am using the stock key from the 06 LS4 donor car. I am also using the steering column from the same car. So I don't have any problems with the keys. I also integrated the anti-theft system from the donor car. The Monte key fob is also functional. I have remote entry, trunk, panic and keyless start (the start function is not working yet because of a persistent crank sensor malfunction). I don't why the new key and lock would not work, as long as you are using a primitive ECM like the stock Fiero which does not require an input from the key. Of course you would need to do the proper conversion to adapt the ignition switch to the needed inputs for the Fiero.
Before the LS4 I had the 2000 Intrigue swap in the car and had the Olds key system in it. I replaced all of the key lock mechanisms over tot that one ignition key. So one key opened the doors trunk and ignition. I have not got around to converting the locks over to the ignition key for the LS4 yet, but with the remote I don't need to



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #237, 04-13-2010 11:21 AM
      Been sick and haven't been to work for a couple days and got bored so I dusted off the car and made couple videos. If there is any videos or pictures of the car that you would like me to take, just let me know.

Start up and showing the power steering working..


walk around showing some of the mods..




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #238, 04-13-2010 02:54 PM
      Sweet!

Charlie



madcurl (madcurl@fiero-performance.com) MSG #239, 04-13-2010 04:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


walk around showing some of the mods..



Ah man, those retractable peddles are great! Over-all sweet ride. I Love the LS4.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #240, 04-13-2010 07:58 PM
      Rick,
The car looks and sounds great. If that's a GM adjustable pedal, I'm proud to say I have content on your car. The controller is mine

Awesome job...

Bob

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 04-13-2010).]

LZeppelin513 (bjamestate@gmail.com) MSG #241, 04-13-2010 09:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

Start up and showing the power steering working


In addition to everything else on that car, the power steering makes me jealous. Nice car


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #242, 04-14-2010 02:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:


Ah man, those retractable peddles are great! Over-all sweet ride. I Love the LS4.


Thanks, When are you getting an LS4



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #243, 04-14-2010 02:47 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

Rick,
The car looks and sounds great. If that's a GM adjustable pedal, I'm proud to say I have content on your car. The controller is mine

Awesome job...

Bob



I think you just said you made the controller for the adjustable pedals? Cool, yes they are factory GM. They came from the same car the dash came from. It is an 08 Malibu. I think they are the memory type? But I just don't know much about them, I just modified them to fit in my car I can live without them but I actually use them more than I thought I would. I thought I would set them for me and my wife would move them for her. But I move them around as I drive on long drives to stretch my legs out and that is a great feeling.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #244, 04-14-2010 02:50 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by LZeppelin513:


In addition to everything else on that car, the power steering makes me jealous. Nice car

Thanks, I want to get the car to a SOLO course for some fun but also to show video of what the power steering was made for


madcurl (madcurl@fiero-performance.com) MSG #245, 04-14-2010 02:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

I actually use them more than I thought I would. I drive on long drives to stretch my legs out and that is a great feeling.


Does your cruise control work on the LS4? That's the deal breaker for me getting a LS4 or for that matter LS7. A large percentage of my driving is highway and I can't live w/o a cruise control.


3084me (bluce@weidel.com) MSG #246, 04-14-2010 06:54 PM
      Great thread,

I've been looking at your video's for quite a long time now. I may have missed it in the thread but what muffler is that in this video? EDIT: Or is that a Ceramic / spun catalytic Converter?

http://www.youtube.com/user...ck#p/u/9/GcfL34htkBc

Just wondering if that's stock or aftermarket.

I'm just finishing a TBI SBC in mine and currently have it test fitted with (1) 3" Dynomax Hi-Flow Cat (I've got emissions here in PA too . . . FUN !!!)

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 04-14-2010).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #247, 04-14-2010 11:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 3084me:

Great thread,

I've been looking at your video's for quite a long time now. I may have missed it in the thread but what muffler is that in this video? EDIT: Or is that a Ceramic / spun catalytic Converter?

http://www.youtube.com/user...ck#p/u/9/GcfL34htkBc

Just wondering if that's stock or aftermarket.

I'm just finishing a TBI SBC in mine and currently have it test fitted with (1) 3" Dynomax Hi-Flow Cat (I've got emissions here in PA too . . . FUN !!!)



That is the stock GM duel wall Stainless Steel cat that comes on the LS4. I cut off the restrictive ends and welded on larger 3" pipe.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #248, 04-14-2010 11:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:


Does your cruise control work on the LS4? That's the deal breaker for me getting a LS4 or for that matter LS7. A large percentage of my driving is highway and I can't live w/o a cruise control.


No my CC does not work.......YET. I melted one of the resisters during the conversion and have not got around to getting a new one. But YES the CC will work as a factory option would. The only thing I have done to this car sense the West Fest Fiero Show was drive it and put new tires on it, and I put gas in it a few times It is still an uncompleted project.

This is what I melted. I put it in place but it was the wrong place so I had to remove it and reinstall it. Well the thing just could not take all the manhandling.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 04-15-2010).]

3084me (bluce@weidel.com) MSG #249, 04-15-2010 12:17 AM
      Thanks for the "cat info" Very good to know.

Hey,, while I'm thinking of it, What Radiator are you running in that thing?? My last carbed V8's did fine with the stock V6 rad but I keep going back and forth with "going aftermarket" with this current build. Just curious since reading the thread it seems that your temp is holding very well.

Very clean build. I wish I was closer. I'd love to see that thing in person. Great work.

This is my current toy:

http://www.customcarblogs.c...in.php?g2_itemId=321

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 04-15-2010).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #250, 04-15-2010 03:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 3084me:

Thanks for the "cat info" Very good to know.

Hey,, while I'm thinking of it, What Radiator are you running in that thing?? My last carbed V8's did fine with the stock V6 rad but I keep going back and forth with "going aftermarket" with this current build. Just curious since reading the thread it seems that your temp is holding very well.

Very clean build. I wish I was closer. I'd love to see that thing in person. Great work.

This is my current toy:

http://www.customcarblogs.c...in.php?g2_itemId=321



Thanks: nice project. At one time I would have killed for a 288 kit. Well...maybe not killed but you get the picture
I had my heart set on a picture perfect replica of the 328. I have always, and still do like the 308 platform.

I am running an after market rad from F.O.C.A. They are gone now but it is a 3 core. I can hold a VERY solid 1/3 temp gauge reading all day long even in 100+ outside temps. It has only seen 3/4 once or twice during the swap before I installed a restrictor in the heater circuit. I would not think about anything other than a Champion now after installing one for some body else. GREAT price for an all aluminum 4 core that is "almost" a direct fit in the Fiero.



3084me (bluce@weidel.com) MSG #251, 04-15-2010 11:47 AM
      Great,

thanks a bunch,

I agree with you,

Champion is the rad that I'm getting ready to order. It's a great product and SOOOOOO much easier and cheaper than modifying a Griffin or Summit Radiator. Thank goodness there is damand for the Fiero radiator and they produce them. I've heard of a few saying to leave the V6 rad, and even though it worked fine for me before, this particular car is really, really clean.

I used a 41,000 mile car and everything is pretty much new so I just didn't want to leave the OEM radiator in there and then have to drain coolant, modify etc after the fact.

I'm using an electric water pump on this one as opposed to the Archie waterpump setup on the last 2 and I think if there is a difference in flow etc, I'd rather have an upgraded radiator, "complete and finished" from the start while the system is currently open. (Hate to do things twice).

Again, great build.

[This message has been edited by 3084me (edited 04-15-2010).]

kooljess (jess@jrirrigation.com) MSG #252, 04-16-2010 12:43 PM
      Just came across this Rick.....man that is some nice work!!! Very nice indeed. AWESOME ! ! ! SIMPLY AWESOME ! ! !



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #253, 04-16-2010 01:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by kooljess:

Just came across this Rick.....man that is some nice work!!! Very nice indeed. AWESOME ! ! ! SIMPLY AWESOME ! ! !



Thank you, I won Peoples Choice award again at West Fest That is 3 years in a row.



88GTS (avanvuuren@shaw.ca) MSG #254, 04-16-2010 06:35 PM
      Hi Rick,

Awesome Car and one of my favorite conversions!

Quick question: What is the size/diameter of the restrictor you've installed in you heater line?

Thanks!


Daviero MSG #255, 04-16-2010 09:13 PM
      Hi Rick, I have to echo the many compliments you have received - they are all well deserved.
I was at a light today beside a Malibu, and thought right away of you and your Fiero.

What do you have for brakes hiding behind the ASA rims? I have been through your thread more than once but have not found the answer.
Edit to add: Also, are your rims the ASA AR1 silver painted with machined lip?

Thanks, Dave.



dobey MSG #256, 04-16-2010 10:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Daviero:
Edit to add: Also, are your rims the ASA AR1 silver painted with machined lip?


I don't know what brakes he has, but the wheels are definitely the ASA AR1s. I have the same wheels on my Mini.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #257, 04-17-2010 02:08 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 88GTS:

Quick question: What is the size/diameter of the restrictor you've installed in you heater line?

Thanks!


Thanks, The restrictor in this one is machined out of aluminum ans pressed into one of the hose fittings. I think it has a .25" hole? It is not that large at all. The heater still vets hot. But around here we only see freezing a few times a year. So if it were not hot enough, I could just run a larger drill thru it. Its function is to force the water to circulate thru the radiator and not just the heater core. You only need an orifice large enough to allow the need hot water to heat the cab. The rest of the water needs to go to the radiator to cool the engine. So the size of the orifice can be larger in cold climates and smaller in hot climates.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #258, 04-17-2010 02:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Daviero:

What do you have for brakes hiding behind the ASA rims? I have been through your thread more than once but have not found the answer.
Edit to add: Also, are your rims the ASA AR1 silver painted with machined lip?

Thanks, Dave.


Thanks, the brakes are West Coast Fiero C4. The rims are ASA AR1. Front is 17x7x 38 and the rear are 17x8x 35. They are a silver metallic paint with a machined lip.



skuzzbomer MSG #259, 04-17-2010 02:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

So the size of the orifice can be larger in cold climates and smaller in hot climates.



I guess that would be thrown out the window here - we have two temperatures "over 1million" and "absolute freaking zero" - at least, that's what I've been told.

For the sake of relatedness...:
Great build, man. I was watching this from the beginning (before I had an account), and I now hold you partially responsible for getting me into Fieros. Inspiring work.

[This message has been edited by skuzzbomer (edited 04-17-2010).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #260, 04-17-2010 12:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by skuzzbomer:


I guess that would be thrown out the window here - we have two temperatures "over 1million" and "absolute freaking zero" - at least, that's what I've been told.

For the sake of relatedness...:
Great build, man. I was watching this from the beginning (before I had an account), and I now hold you partially responsible for getting me into Fieros. Inspiring work.



LOL, sorry

I love Nashville, I have a buddy over there and spent a week at his place a few years ago.



88GTS (avanvuuren@shaw.ca) MSG #261, 04-17-2010 06:47 PM
      Thanks Rick for the info on the heater hose vent hole diameter.

Another question to you or anyone else that would like to comment: Can I completely block the heater water hose (summer car, don't need any heater), or is there a requirement for some water circulation when the thermostat is closed just after start up?

Thanks,
Andre


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #262, 04-18-2010 02:04 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 88GTS:

Thanks Rick for the info on the heater hose vent hole diameter.

Another question to you or anyone else that would like to comment: Can I completely block the heater water hose (summer car, don't need any heater), or is there a requirement for some water circulation when the thermostat is closed just after start up?

Thanks,
Andre


I have never looked inside the Xover pump housing but I would say that if you don't want a heater then find a way to loop the heater pipes together. Water will circulate around inside the engine to prevent "hot spots" and that constant circulation thu the heater circuit may play a vital roll? BUT one thing is for sure, if you loop it you cant hurt anything. If you plug it, do you want to take a rick of some type of damage?



88GTS (avanvuuren@shaw.ca) MSG #263, 04-18-2010 06:12 PM
      I think your logic that air might get trapped and cause hot spots is very valid.

On the other hand, just looping the 2 pipes together could bypass too much hot water directly back into the engine and lower the cooling capacity of the system. So I would say keeping the loop, but with your 1/4" restrictor should be the best overall solution.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #264, 04-19-2010 01:21 AM
      My brother's boat used a standard irrigation gate valve to control the flow of cooling water. I wonder if there is a nice adjustable valve that would work to control the flow of heater coolant so you could "tune" it to work best. Might be useful if a different flow was required seasonally.

Charlie



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #265, 05-12-2010 07:09 PM
      I put 87 front springs in the front of my 88 and an uncut set of front 88 springs in the rear. I cut exactly two coils off of the 87 springs and the 88 front springs went in the rear struts without any mods. I did flip the insulator block and that lowered the rear about .5" and preloaded the spring. I am happy with the stiffer spring rates on the front and back and have not bottomed out on ANY bump that used to knock out my teeth if I did not slow down. I also put in all polly with grease zerks and new ball joints. I greased the front wheel bearings with a straw, and did a quick alignment. I am VERY happy with the spring combo and it has a great stance.
HAPPY to drive is an understatement



fieroguru MSG #266, 05-12-2010 07:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

I put 87 front springs in the front of my 88 and an uncut set of front 88 springs in the rear. I cut exactly two coils off of the 87 springs and the 88 front springs went in the rear struts without any mods. I did flip the insulator block and that lowered the rear about .5" and preloaded the spring. I am happy with the stiffer spring rates on the front and back and have not bottomed out on ANY bump that used to knock out my teeth if I did not slow down. I also put in all polly with grease zerks and new ball joints. I greased the front wheel bearings with a straw, and did a quick alignment. I am VERY happy with the spring combo and it has a great stance.
HAPPY to drive is an understatement


I am kinda suprized more of the 88's haven't picked up on this simple/inexpensive spring mod...


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #267, 05-12-2010 08:05 PM
      I don't know exactly how much "stiffer" the spring rates are but they sure helped my Fiero.

88GTS (avanvuuren@shaw.ca) MSG #268, 05-12-2010 11:56 PM
      Excellent input Rick - I haven't seen this before and coming from you, I know it will be perfect.

BTW, this thread definitely belongs in the Construction Zone - Cliff?

 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

I put 87 front springs in the front of my 88 and an uncut set of front 88 springs in the rear. I cut exactly two coils off of the 87 springs and the 88 front springs went in the rear struts without any mods. I did flip the insulator block and that lowered the rear about .5" and preloaded the spring. I am happy with the stiffer spring rates on the front and back and have not bottomed out on ANY bump that used to knock out my teeth if I did not slow down. I also put in all polly with grease zerks and new ball joints. I greased the front wheel bearings with a straw, and did a quick alignment. I am VERY happy with the spring combo and it has a great stance.
HAPPY to drive is an understatement

[This message has been edited by 88GTS (edited 05-12-2010).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #269, 05-13-2010 02:08 AM
      Thanks, I don't have any pics of the spring swap but I might try to come up with something? I wanted to see if this would work first before I posted about it.

theBDub MSG #270, 05-13-2010 02:25 AM
      Rick,

I love your work. The best attention to detail I've ever seen. And your modesty just puts the cherry on top. I just posted on one of your YouTube videos, but I'll post here too:

If you had all the financial sources you needed (plus extra for you), would you build an interior for another person (like me). This is theoretical, just wondering if you are a person I'd look to in the future.

I'd make it worth your while. But please, if you don't have the desire, just keep doing what you are doing and I'll try and mimic!


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #271, 05-13-2010 02:50 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

Rick,

I love your work. The best attention to detail I've ever seen. And your modesty just puts the cherry on top. I just posted on one of your YouTube videos, but I'll post here too:

If you had all the financial sources you needed (plus extra for you), would you build an interior for another person (like me). This is theoretical, just wondering if you are a person I'd look to in the future.

I'd make it worth your while. But please, if you don't have the desire, just keep doing what you are doing and I'll try and mimic!


Thanks, I have had most people at Fiero shows comment on the dash more than the engine. That dash was more work than two engine swaps. It is just not worth doing again, like I did it. If I were to do it again I would just install the dash cover over a MUCH more simple back bone and use the stock AC system. That would make it MUCH more "doable".
But in all fairness this dash was done to fit an exact engine and an exact car to use ALL the components that were never made for the dash. So just doing the dash cover "should" be MUCH easier?



dobey MSG #272, 06-07-2010 09:32 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


Can you clarify what all the connections are here? I'm thinking of possibly using a pump from GTO instead, as it looks to be a little smaller in the pictures I can find of them. It only has the feed line connection, and 2 electrical connectors, presumably the fuel pump connection and tank pressure sensor. I presume those are the same two connections here. But what are the other two tubes for on the LS4 pump? I'm guessing the largest one is the feed?


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #273, 06-08-2010 02:26 AM
      The shortest plastic line furthest to the top/right is a blank. It is not drilled for any use.
The center line is the fuel supply line to the engine.
The largest line is the "vent" line. It serves the same purpose as the small metal pipe at the end of the tank. It is welded closed for this mod. I ran a new hose from the new fuel fill vent pipe to the gas cap.
The hole on the side of the assembly goes to the charcoal canister.
The electric plugs consist of two separate connectors. One is for the pump/gauge and the other is the pressure sensor.
The sending unit has a fuel regulator inside the tank so there is only one fuel line to the engine.


blkpearl (bodylinesfitness@cox.net) MSG #274, 06-09-2010 12:04 AM
      Hey Rick i wanted to know what shocks you are using for the 88?

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #275, 06-09-2010 02:10 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by blkpearl:

Hey Rick i wanted to know what shocks you are using for the 88?


I have KYB all around and 87GT springs in front with the front 88 springs installed in the rear.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #276, 09-04-2010 12:41 PM
      Cool, I didn't even know this thread had been moved to the construction zone. Thanks.

Finally, I am able to start getting some more work done to the car. I had the LS4 AC lines adapted to work with the Fiero now I need to make some custom lines for the front. I needed to remove the engine to change a bad water pump but I also wanted to check for clearances and make some adjustments. Ironically I also had to change the water pump on the GTO and the little Ls4 pump was more expensive.


The custom Ls4 line next to the stock Fiero line




Engine removed





Water pump getting removed


Ready for new pump on order





doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #277, 09-04-2010 12:54 PM
      Just wondering what your method of lifting the rear end is to clear the engine for removal? Everything else looks awesome as always!

GADJet MSG #278, 09-14-2010 05:15 PM
      That is the sickest thing I have ever seen. Too bad I wont ever do it! Too complex for me.

pavo_roddy MSG #279, 09-14-2010 08:16 PM
      HI all

Weird!! I was just thinkin the other day how an F458 dash would look like in a Fiero, and boom, today I find yur build thread, again, lol... The speedo pods look pretty similiar.... LUBB the werk done in this car!! 1 thing, going over this thread, all I did was look 4 pix of the interior, to find the door cards, are u werkin on 'em yet? Any pix of that? Did the Malibu ever come in a 2 door? Or are the 4 door skins a good fit, front ones, of course .........

Thanx for the inspiration!


Eric J....



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #280, 09-24-2010 12:12 PM
      The Malibu door panels are plastic and way too tall, the Fiero door panels are short and long, so I decided to just make custom ones to match the dash. I did start to make them, but life gets in the way sometimes. Hope to start them after I finish few more things on the car.

I got the engine back in the car after I modified the shock tower, changed the water pump and repainted the engine bay. I got to test drive the car yesterday soon I'll start working on the s10 brake booster. I already did that on another car but have not got to do it to this one yet.

Here you can how I lift the car.







Rick 88 MSG #281, 09-25-2010 01:25 PM
      PM Sent

Navras MSG #282, 09-27-2010 03:00 PM
      Feelin' the need to spread some love.

Rickady, I've followed a lot of your builds/mods/conversions/everything else you've done to the best of my ability, and I finally have to announce that I have LS envy. Those brute V8s in the back of these little Pontiacs are an all-too perfect match, and you capture it flawlessly. I wish I had the skills and experience you have, as I'd be more than happy with an LS1 or LS2 rocketing me - well, not compared to your LS4 - away from the stoplight. On top of your brilliant motor swaps, inhuman attention to detail and curiously awesome styling, your power steering conversion (seems like you're real popular for this one, alone) is something I am -definitely- giving a shot, sometime next year or over this winter and early spring, whenever the L67 swap (or attempted swap...) is done. I know there's a difference in the '88 above all others, but I'll be using your work as a template, nonetheless.

Your Malibu dash, by the way, is beyond brilliant. Thanks for all the Fiero inspiration, and best wishes on your future projects !


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #283, 11-06-2010 01:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Navras:

Feelin' the need to spread some love.

Rickady, I've followed a lot of your builds/mods/conversions/everything else you've done to the best of my ability, and I finally have to announce that I have LS envy. Those brute V8s in the back of these little Pontiacs are an all-too perfect match, and you capture it flawlessly. I wish I had the skills and experience you have, as I'd be more than happy with an LS1 or LS2 rocketing me - well, not compared to your LS4 - away from the stoplight. On top of your brilliant motor swaps, inhuman attention to detail and curiously awesome styling, your power steering conversion (seems like you're real popular for this one, alone) is something I am -definitely- giving a shot, sometime next year or over this winter and early spring, whenever the L67 swap (or attempted swap...) is done. I know there's a difference in the '88 above all others, but I'll be using your work as a template, nonetheless.

Your Malibu dash, by the way, is beyond brilliant. Thanks for all the Fiero inspiration, and best wishes on your future projects !


Wow thanks. I appreciate all the comments, they help make this all worth doing. But I am also open to the constructive criticism because I have done MANY mods twice and some of the constructive criticism would of saved me some time in the past if I had listened


Sorry for the lack of progress, I have some other things going on at the same time. I have made all the custom AC lines and put a vacuum on it for about an hour at around 30in vac. It held with no measurable drop in vac. I used two cans of Freeze 12 and need to get more. I only have about 30psi so I guess I wont have AC for a few more days.



Rick 88 MSG #284, 11-06-2010 05:04 PM
      PM sent

Trinten MSG #285, 11-17-2010 12:12 PM
      Hey Rick,

A/C line question. You said you had made custom hoses, but I didn't see in the thread (skimming through) on how you did it. My hoses in the engine compartment are a bit short, requiring alot of muscling to hook them up to the bracket that runs to the front of the car.

I'd love to get something a bit longer in there to release that tension when I swap out the A/C compressor, any info (at your leisure) would be greatly appreciated!!



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #286, 11-18-2010 03:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Hey Rick,

A/C line question. You said you had made custom hoses, but I didn't see in the thread (skimming through) on how you did it. My hoses in the engine compartment are a bit short, requiring alot of muscling to hook them up to the bracket that runs to the front of the car.

I'd love to get something a bit longer in there to release that tension when I swap out the A/C compressor, any info (at your leisure) would be greatly appreciated!!


You could just add a spacer between the AC line bracket and frame rail, if you have the room. This could give you up to three inches of "extra" AC hose. On one car I did , I made a new mount and bolted this bracket to the rear bulkhead and not the side frame rail. That gave me all the hose I needed. But keep in mind that you will need to bend the aluminum AC lines that run under the car to accommodate the new location. They bend easily without kinks because they wont need that much "modification".

What I did to the stock Monte AC hoses was cut off the Monte Carlo ends that connect to the chassis (I kept the Monte rubber hose) and welded on the Fiero aluminum hose ends that bolted to the chassis. This gave me Monte Carlo hoses that bolt directly to the Fiero chassis. I had to weld the AC Pressure/temp sensor between the aluminum Fiero and Monte ends. That was the "easy" set of lines. The front was much more extensive. I will try to get some pics up some time soon, but the gist of this custom AC hoses was a mix match of Fiero and Monte aluminum lies that fit in the customized front trunk and connected the Fiero dryer to the Monte AC unit. Sounds easy, but was not.

I had to remove the AC compressor fuse to prevent the compressor from turning because the remote start function automatically turns on the climate control to heat or cool the car before I even get in. This was not good because the AC system is not ready yet.


Trinten MSG #287, 11-18-2010 03:38 PM
      Thanks!

I think I see what you're saying. I'll have to peek under my decklid/under the car to make sure before I comment/ask more questions- I don't want to open my mouth and insert foot just yet!

Thanks again!


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #288, 11-18-2010 03:54 PM
      Well I took the car to a smog ref a week ago. He drove the car into his shop were I was not allowed to go and I heard the engine shut down, about 30-40 min later the car started up and he drove it out of his shop and told me he ran out of time and needs to do more research before he could continue? I was at a lose of words and angry that the person that the people of the State relies on to certify swaps and "troubled" cars, was befuddled by my swap. It was all I could do to keep my mouth shut and be courteous to him for wasting my time. Not only that time but now I need to wait for him to make a new appointment with him for him to do a "more extensive examination" of the car. He asked for records notes and pictures of the swap in progress.

I NEVER thought that California cared about cleaning the air. I ALWAYS said they just want us to scrap our "crap" and buy new cars to stimulate the economy and "create" jobs. This only proves my theory.
IF the State did care about the air, they would encourage us to do "clean swaps" and NOT give us a hard time and the runaround. I get better gas mileage with this V8 than the V6 ever got. And no doubt that it is a cleaner running engine than the V6.

I went out of my way to do EVERYTHING I could to retain the Monte smog equipment just for this certification and the guy did not even have the time to look at it?
I would have posted about this sooner but I may have used words that PFF would not allow.


Trinten MSG #289, 11-18-2010 04:07 PM
      You're not alone, and it's not just with s/crap cars. A person I know from a Thunderbird forum had this same issue about a decade ago. He spent TONS of money and work on his late 90's bird, everything that went into the car was a Ford MoCo part, just not a T-Bird part. DOHC engine from a Mark VIII, modified-to-fit exhaust from a Cobra, etc. It had all the emissions control equipment that the Tbird came with, and it's emissions output was far-below the fail limits.

However they still failed him, repeatedly, for having unauthorized aftermarket parts (I don't remember the phrase he said they used, but that was close). After nearly a year of writing letters, making phone calls, and showing up with paperwork and photos... he finally just packed up and moved to Florida.

That's why I have my Fiero, my sisters ex-husband would have never been able to get it to pass there, so he sold it to me.


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #290, 01-20-2011 10:35 PM
      Hi Rick...

That really blows... I know how obnoxious the smog patrol can be... been there with the stock 85 and the GT.... I SWEATED my last (yes last..ever for the car due to age) smog check and of course it had be with the new LS4.. Washington adopted many of the CARB rules in 2009 so I emailed them, got a copy of the laws and prayed...

I lucked out as the manager of the main Spokane Smog Police Operation was a Pontiac buff... He saw the car and immediately came over and took over.. There were actually three employees that did it and after the engine "look over" and questions about the ECM/TCM tranny and engine they did a sniff and thank God it passed with flying colors... I know yours would too if they based it on actual emissions output.

I hope everything works out right... The engine in your car is probably ten times cleaner than the 2.8 on its best day.... Good luck my friend...

Jeff



madcurl (madcurl@fiero-performance.com) MSG #291, 01-21-2011 03:09 PM
      Having been through the various steps here in CA-I can tell you this. They're not interested in what comes out of the tail pipe & good fuel economy. For if they truely were concered they would've pass your car based soley upon what the emissions from your tail pipe. My N* get at least 32MPG and the emissions are right in line with current production Cadillacs.

Here's a thought. If most people did engine swaps-CA would loose plenty of revenue from car taxes and car registration. The mere fact CA has the one of the largest % of drivers who are (bye-the-way) keeping their 3-5 years cars is putting a hurt on revenue for the state. If you've noticed CA still has a limit on SB100 applications per year which is at 500. They were going to up the numbers to 1,000.


chrismclubm MSG #292, 02-14-2011 10:00 PM
      Rick, you've done an excellent job. Really put a lot of detail into your car.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #293, 02-15-2011 02:41 AM
      Thanks.

The air filter box is in the mail. I will see what I can do to it and take it to the reff.
The shop that relearned the crank sensor for me noted on the repair order that the codes are all clear. But that was not good enough for the reff. He wanted specific language, "all monitors set" so the shop was cool and and said they can get that for me.

NOBODY ON EARTH can convince me that the California Air Resource Board is here to help clean up our air. They are ALL about MONEY$$$$$$$$
IFF they did care about the air, they would encourage people to do swaps like this, not just the LS4 and other "Hot Rod" engines but the smaller economical engines too. But they don't care. They just want people to throw away the "old junk" and just go buy a new one. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Navras MSG #294, 02-16-2011 03:08 PM
      Sorry to hear about that, Rick. Here's hoping the LS4 gets to roll around the roads "officially" smog legal soon.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #295, 02-17-2011 12:41 AM
      Cool, thank you.
I will be out there Getting it done is the easy part. The hard part is conforming to stupidity


Isolde MSG #296, 02-17-2011 07:21 PM
      More jobs and better economy from repairing old cars than from new crap.
Cali is no place for car enthusiasts. If you're there for huge pay, buy a new ZR1 with your huge pay. Otherwise, there are 49 better states to be a car enthusiast in.
Reno is a nice close place to live, easy commute, no emissions BS.

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 02-17-2011).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #297, 02-17-2011 08:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

More jobs and better economy from repairing old cars than from new crap.
Cali is no place for car enthusiasts. If you're there for huge pay, buy a new ZR1 with your huge pay. Otherwise, there are 49 better states to be a car enthusiast in.
Reno is a nice close place to live, easy commute, no emissions BS.



Just a little off topic here, but the State has realized that VERRRRY few State workers actually retire in CA. So They are trying to figure out how to "TAX" the people who move out, in an attempt to "keep the money in CA".

I am a State Worker and cant think of a single person that plans to retire in CA. I have done A LOT of talking to people about retirement.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #298, 02-17-2011 08:12 PM
      I get some comments on You Tube about the swap that hosts my videos and one person asked for a specific video that I will try to get for him. IF anyone wants a video of a specific function or driving condition, pleas let me know and I will try to knock out all the videos in one day.
LIKE:
0-60
1/4 mile from the seat
drive by from the side walk
what ever you would like to see as long as the law does not come for me and use the video as evidence

Thanks, Rick


cam-a-lot MSG #299, 02-19-2011 05:45 AM
      Rick

My suggestion is to name a ridiculously low price, put the car into an enclosed trailer, and ship it to the frozen wasteland of Canada. We have crap weather so your baby will get to sleep 6 months of the year.

then you can take the money and put it toward something that the Hollywood crowd will approve of, say a Prius??

Love your car. One day she will be MINE!!!!



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #300, 05-21-2011 03:53 AM
      I finally got started on the door panels and center console. I have a few pics, but they are not all that impressive. I am just not sure yet on how it should look?

Any ideas?
I would love some pics of cool ideas that I can use as inspiration.


dobey MSG #301, 05-21-2011 10:09 AM
      Have you not looked at using some of the pieces from the Malibu? Or using them for inspiration? Given you're using that dash, it seems like a fitting place to look for ideas.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #302, 05-22-2011 03:07 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Have you not looked at using some of the pieces from the Malibu? Or using them for inspiration? Given you're using that dash, it seems like a fitting place to look for ideas.


I looked into it a while back, but they are much taller than the Fiero and one of my goals is to make the doors a little "thinner" so I can have a bit moor elbow room. I also rest my knee on the door so I removed that pesky door handle to move it somewhere else.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #303, 05-26-2011 12:23 PM
      Fixed the pictures....here is an idea on what I've been working on..













[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-26-2011).]

exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #304, 06-08-2011 12:50 AM
     

Love this build.

Keep pushing the envelope.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #305, 06-08-2011 05:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by exoticse:
Love this build.

Keep pushing the envelope.


Thanx

Right now the center console is kicking my but. The rally gauge pod came out quick, but the center console is in its 4th or 5th application of fiberglass to get the right shape.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #306, 07-14-2011 07:19 PM
      Got the AC working today
I put it on the back burner for a LONG time, but now it works.
I used the stock 06 Monte Carlo compressor in the stock LS4 locaion and 06 Monte Carlo HVAC unit under the dash. The rest of the system is a combination of stock Fiero stuff and custom lines.
I had a problem with very high pressure on the high side and good pressure on the low side. The problem was a blockadge in the high side line caused by either a defective (new out of the bag) orface tube or the use of the tube. I did not know that the Monte has an expansion valve and the orface tube is not needed.
But it works now.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #307, 09-22-2011 01:41 AM
      I did some work to the car today. I ned to get the correct cat in for the smog ref, but the new cat for the 5.3 V8 is smaller than the S* cat? So I was a little woried that the sound could get louder and I needed to add a muffler of some kind.

(This is the short version of the mod, it was a little more complex than it sounds)
I got a 12" glass pack and cut it in half, one for each side. I welded one end to the C6 tip and closed the open glass filled "gap" on the other end then added a 90* turn.


Also shows the smaller cat for the larger engine. This was a better install/fit than the larger cat.


dobey MSG #308, 09-22-2011 09:09 AM
      The cats on new GM cars are tiny, and flow much better. The one on my Cruze is in front of the engine even, before the exhaust goes under. Between that and the turbo both being right there, the outdoor temp readings on it are a bit off sometimes, particularly in traffic.




Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #309, 09-22-2011 08:08 PM
      Got some work done today.

This is a short vid to show (hear) the before and after. This one is with no exhaust at all after the collector.


You can see the entire exhaust system on the ground under the car.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 09-22-2011).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #310, 09-23-2011 12:55 AM
      Got the cat in. This vidio shows how much it calms down the LS4.


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #311, 09-23-2011 11:49 AM
      Rick, I feel your pain when it comes to dealing with the Kali smog nazi's. in the late '80's to early '90's I worked for Exotic Dream machines building tube frame Lambo's. and somehow I got the task of taking the cars to the ref station (they really wern't paying nearly enough to do this!!!), IIRC I ran 8 cars through the station, every car was a total hassle, you'd think after the first couple of cars they'd have it figured out but NOOO. Thier Draconian policies are just one of many reasons that I left in late '91

I'm in total agreement w/ you on the fact that it's not about clean air!!!

Joe


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #312, 09-23-2011 01:11 PM
      I got the system in. It sounds more "mellow" and a slight bit of "whistle" or hiss from the glass packs. They did take out most of the "raspy" sound that most muflerless systems have.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 09-23-2011).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #313, 09-24-2011 01:36 PM
     

madcurl (madcurl@fiero-performance.com) MSG #314, 09-24-2011 02:28 PM
      Does the 5.3 have two cats or one? I know they gave me a hard time when I arrived with two cats.

Anyway, your mufflers look similar to what D1S uses.




dobey MSG #315, 09-24-2011 07:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:
Does the 5.3 have two cats or one? I know they gave me a hard time when I arrived with two cats.


Just one, both in the case of the LS4 and for the iron block 5.3 truck motors.


dobey MSG #316, 11-08-2011 10:02 AM
      Rick, I don't know if you saw this, but I know you were interested in swapping over to the F40-MT2 with your LS4 as well.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/087476.html


exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #317, 12-07-2011 03:19 PM
     

One of my favorite build threads, so many cool things.

Rick,.....what is next !?!


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #318, 12-14-2011 02:28 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by exoticse:
One of my favorite build threads, so many cool things.

Rick,.....what is next !?!



I would LOVE to get my hands on a Saturn Sky or Solstice for a V8 project but as far as this project goes....I am thinkng of the C4 rollback style headlights with the new Camaro halo headlights in them. I have wanted to do the C4 light setup for as long as I have had the Fiero. But the high cost and large size of the real C4 buckets put the project off for a long time. My plan is to make totaly custom rollback that better fits the Fiero than the C4 could. I also want LED lamps all around. The tail lamps will have to be modified so they just glow. I dont want to see the individual LEDs.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #319, 12-14-2011 02:41 AM
      BTW I got the smog certification a little while back. ( the whole ordeal was so frustrating that I could not even bring my self up to brag about it) It only took 5 trips the the smog ref to get it done. Ca only has 6 of them. I had to drive a total of 700+ miles of driving back and forth to the ref.
I almost broke my phone talking to a ref because the "bad news" he gave me during one of the few phone conversations I had with one of the two refs I delt with.
I have to give credit where it is due, the second ref was a good dude and acually spent time with me explaining why some things are the way they are. Not that I agree with Ca smog laws, but I have a better understanding of them than I used to have.


So now I have a $3,000 sticker on the inside of my door jamb that says my Fiero is no longer a Fiero. It is now a 2006 Monte Carlo SS with a 5.3 LS4 V8 and is smog compliant in Ca.


madcurl (madcurl@fiero-performance.com) MSG #320, 12-14-2011 04:44 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


So now I have a $3,000 sticker on the inside of my door jamb that says my Fiero is no longer a Fiero. It is now a 2006 Monte Carlo SS with a 5.3 LS4 V8 and is smog compliant in Ca.


Hehehe. Welcome to the club. I forgot how many time it took me.


Trinten MSG #321, 12-14-2011 11:22 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
So now I have a $3,000 sticker on the inside of my door jamb that says my Fiero is no longer a Fiero. It is now a 2006 Monte Carlo SS with a 5.3 LS4 V8 and is smog compliant in Ca.


Most awesome looking 2006 Monte Carlo SS ever.

Congrats!


madcurl (madcurl@fiero-performance.com) MSG #322, 12-14-2011 02:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:





How did the CAT cost you? Is the Fiero exempt for life? Did you have to install the Evap from the 5.3?


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #323, 12-14-2011 10:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:


How did the CAT cost you? Is the Fiero exempt for life? Did you have to install the Evap from the 5.3?



The cat is a stock LS4 cat. You could buy one new for about $300? I modified it to fit in the Fiero engine bay and was noted as such by the ref. So it is legal to do some mods to the exhaust system.
It was a standard smog certification, so it needs a check every two years. Yes the entire Monte emissions system is in the Fiero.



Syn (matthew.ryan.prince@gmail.com) MSG #324, 12-16-2011 10:19 AM
      wow, I love the interior! what plans do you have for the console? are you going to keep it carpeted or make a custom piece?

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #325, 04-10-2012 12:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Syn:

wow, I love the interior! what plans do you have for the console? are you going to keep it carpeted or make a custom piece?


I have a fiberglass piece in flat black, but not done yet. I have not worked on the car in a while. Just got the exhaust system for the smog ref and driving it.
I did blow out two subs so far. I may just bump up the center sub to an 8"?



dobey MSG #326, 04-10-2012 01:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
I have a fiberglass piece in flat black, but not done yet. I have not worked on the car in a while. Just got the exhaust system for the smog ref and driving it.
I did blow out two subs so far. I may just bump up the center sub to an 8"?


What subs, and what are you powering them with?


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #327, 04-11-2012 01:47 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


What subs, and what are you powering them with?


I have JL Adio 6.5 subs. I used to have two of them in the car with the stock dash. But this dash has a glove box that takes the place of one of the subs, now I only have one between the seats.
I think it gets 250w.



dobey MSG #328, 04-11-2012 10:10 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
I have JL Adio 6.5 subs. I used to have two of them in the car with the stock dash. But this dash has a glove box that takes the place of one of the subs, now I only have one between the seats.
I think it gets 250w.


Ow. Yeah, 250 watts to a JL 6w0 will kill it pretty fast. They peak at about half that. You want to provide about 80-100 watts constant to it. I have a 6w0 in my car, powered by the factory performance sound amp right now, in the stock sub location, and it hits pretty good. I also have a better amp waiting to get installed to power it, which is about 100 watts RMS. I had this amp connected to a 6w0 in the extended cab S-10 I used to have, and it filled the cabin really well for its size.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #329, 04-11-2012 11:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Ow. Yeah, 250 watts to a JL 6w0 will kill it pretty fast. They peak at about half that. You want to provide about 80-100 watts constant to it. I have a 6w0 in my car, powered by the factory performance sound amp right now, in the stock sub location, and it hits pretty good. I also have a better amp waiting to get installed to power it, which is about 100 watts RMS. I had this amp connected to a 6w0 in the extended cab S-10 I used to have, and it filled the cabin really well for its size.


I have to say they did sound good. I got them because of the small size, but like them because of the great sound they put out. They lasted about 5 years. The first one blew out last year so I put the other one in its ace and now it is on its way out.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #330, 02-13-2013 11:04 PM
      I put in one 8 sub and it sounds ok, but I dont think it sounds as good as the two 6.5 I had. I can put the 6.5 back in (a new one because I blew out the two I had) but installing the two will be a challenge.

VF1Skullangel (vf1skullangel@gmail.com) MSG #331, 03-09-2013 11:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Isolde:

More jobs and better economy from repairing old cars than from new crap.
Cali is no place for car enthusiasts. If you're there for huge pay, buy a new ZR1 with your huge pay. Otherwise, there are 49 better states to be a car enthusiast in.
Reno is a nice close place to live, easy commute, no emissions BS.




I agree.

The emissions out here voilates my rights I feel. They shouldn't have to be inspecting any of my cars but California has some really F-ed up laws. I'm not sure if this is my last stop but I tell ya its better than Colorado. I get to enjoy my RWD year round vs driving in snow 10 months out of the year.


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #332, 03-10-2013 11:35 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by VF1Skullangel:
I agree.

I'm not sure if this is my last stop but I tell ya its better than Colorado. I get to enjoy my RWD year round vs driving in snow 10 months out of the year.




Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 03-13-2013).]

TRiAD MSG #333, 03-13-2013 05:30 PM
      Wow, this is one of the most amazing builds I've seen!
That dash just transforms the entire car!
I'll be building an LSx Fiero at some point myself, and keep debating the manual-vs-auto thing...
Do you find yourself using the paddle shifters much? Does it ever shift when you'd rather it didn't?
I have joint issues which include my ankles and I'm not sure if a manual - particularly a heavy one - would work for me.

+ For you for an awesome build thread!



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #334, 03-13-2013 10:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TRiAD:

Wow, this is one of the most amazing builds I've seen!
That dash just transforms the entire car!
I'll be building an LSx Fiero at some point myself, and keep debating the manual-vs-auto thing...
Do you find yourself using the paddle shifters much? Does it ever shift when you'd rather it didn't?
I have joint issues which include my ankles and I'm not sure if a manual - particularly a heavy one - would work for me.

+ For you for an awesome build thread!


Thanks, from the inside this does not even look like a Fiero anymore.
I had plans to do the motor mounts in such a way that I could install a 6 speed manual. That did not pan out because I did not have enough parts to do the drive shafts for the manual.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 03-13-2013).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #335, 03-16-2013 08:48 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TRiAD:

Do you find yourself using the paddle shifters much? Does it ever shift when you'd rather it didn't?
I have joint issues which include my ankles and I'm not sure if a manual - particularly a heavy one - would work for me.

+ For you for an awesome build thread!


I melted a resistor like this one during the steering wheel conversion. I never got around to replacing it. So the shifters do not work yet.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 03-16-2013).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #336, 05-02-2013 11:32 PM
      I started on my LS1 intake swap today. I am not sure how long it will take, but I have had this manifold for two years.
I started with a .25 thick aluminum plate and cut it down so that it will cover the LS1 intake opening and the stock LS4 TB.
I chose to stay with the LS4 TB because I already have one, and it works But the main reason is that I do not want to deal with extra PCM reprogramming. I hope to do as little as possible for this swap. I will also keep the stock MAF and fuel injectors. So to sum up my plans for the manifold swap,....basically I am only changing the manifold and installing all of the LS4 components to the LS1 intake. If it does not work out, I will try to change the parts that are incompatible to the swap.
I really don't like the DOD so a permanent deactivation of it is in order. But I am not sure yet how to do it properly, that is I still need to run the car without engine codes.
I have had DOD functional from the start, and it has not grown on me. It vibrates on the freeway because I have hard mounts, and it chugs in town because the DOD kicks in at about or under 30mph just after it shifts into 4th gear. The RPM is very low and with DOD activated I can feel the car chug along. And then the sound of a V8 running on only four cylinders with an aggressive exhaust system....not music to my ears. So I drive in town down shifted into 3rd so DOD does not turn on. I shift into 4th only on the freeway or at speeds over 55mph.

This is where I wish I had a CNC mill but I don't...yet. I had to cut out the adaptor plate with hand tools.

Sorry, PIP is not working for me. It takes a long time to "upload" then gives my a time out error.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-02-2013).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #337, 05-03-2013 12:21 AM
      After I cut out the adaptor plate, I drilled and tapped it. It has two sets of holes in it, one set for the LS4 TB and one set for the LS1 manifold and all 7 holes are tapped.

The first thing I needed to do was to get the adaptor mounted to the manifold but the adaptor bolts cant have any interference with the TB bolts. I thought about countersinking some tapered allen bolts but figured that screwing the bolts into the adaptor plate from behind the mount flange. So I used three TORX head bolts from the side plate of a 4T65E. I like them because they have a very wide and flat head. That gives them more surface aria on the plastic. I drilled and tapped the three LS1 mount holes to M8 x 1.25. This is larger than the stock M6 x 1.0 bolts. This is where it got a little tricky, I had to push out the threaded inserts that the original bolts threaded into. I then drilled out the center for the larger bolt to pass thru, and remove the threads. The bolts now screw in from the back side of the manifold neck and I hope I never need to service them in the car
















I need to make a plug for this hole.

The stock LS4 TB bolts need to be cut shorter because they bottom out on the manifold just on the other side of the adaptor plate, but the LS4 TB bolts on just like it does on the stock LS4 manifold.


I had to cut away a section of the LS1 mounting plate to make room for the Drive By Wire harness plug.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-03-2013).]

fieroguru MSG #338, 05-03-2013 06:30 AM
      Looking good! If you wanted to do some tuning or have it done, you can turn off DoD in the lower gears as well as limit the MPH where it will engage. You can also click 1 cell and disable it entirely.

As for the hole in the end of the intake, several people just use a freeze plug to cap it off.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #339, 05-03-2013 11:02 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Looking good! If you wanted to do some tuning or have it done, you can turn off DoD in the lower gears as well as limit the MPH where it will engage. You can also click 1 cell and disable it entirely.



I will need to tune it, just for better efficiency if nothing else. But I expect this swap to cause some "out of perimeter" or unexpected readings to the PCM.
I knew about the options for the DOD. I even considered having some changes made to it. In HP Tuner I could adjust the RPM that it would kick in at. This would help in town. And or I could adjust the MPH that it kicks in at, so It would only turn on at....lets say 57mph or higher.
But what I would like to have is an On/Off switch so I can turn it off at will. The problem is that this was not possible at the time I was doing the swap and I don't think it is now either?

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

As for the hole in the end of the intake, several people just use a freeze plug to cap it off.



Thanks. What is the best Bonding Agent for the metal to plastic?



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #340, 05-03-2013 04:59 PM
     
















Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #341, 05-03-2013 05:07 PM
     



The MAP on. I tilted it up just a bit to clear the connector just under it.


fieroguru MSG #342, 05-03-2013 06:58 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
Thanks. What is the best Bonding Agent for the metal to plastic?


If the plug is snug enough, you could just coat the flange with some RTV to help make it air tight. Others have used various types of epoxy. I used JB Weld for the sheet meal patch in the base of my intake.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #343, 05-07-2013 01:40 AM
      A few pics from today

Why am I doing the intake swap? The LS4 intake is a lot like the 2.8 Fiero intake, it is restrictive and does not let the engine run at its full potential.




Bottom view of "Fiero like" neck restriction. and ridiculous bump for sending unit.


I don't know if all LS4 intakes are like this one, but this one has a separated "weld" joint in the front runner. Look at the top of the "D" port, the dark line in that runner is a .25 gap between the top half and the bottom half of the runner castings. This could not be good for flow?
This is a look down the LS4 TB mount. It is "D" shaped instead of "O" because of a bend in the intake neck for an Oil Pressure Sender.
You can also see the internal intake runners that actually block the intake in addition to the "D" bend. And to make the intake opening even smaller, GM made a bump at the bottom of the "D" to allow for the connecter plug for the DOD valves that are just under the intake. As if that were not enough to slow the flow, GM thru in an air restriction bonus in the form of a totally random casting that blocks air flow.





A look at the LS1

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 05-07-2013).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #344, 05-07-2013 04:33 PM
      Another reason for the intake swap is the runners of the LS1 are larger and have a larger radius around the plenum. The LS4 runner radius is tighter and more restrictive. You can see the gaps between the runners on the LS4, but the larger LS1 runners are so large the gaps are gone.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

From the bottom, you can see the huge "towers" that are structural support members in the LS4 compared to the smaller less restrictive "towers" of the LS1
and the casting voids in the smaller LS4 runners.




Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #345, 05-09-2013 01:21 AM
      Some progres. But my PC melted down. So the new one is wont let me upload to Potobucket?

I got the OPS unit moved, ground down the bottom of the intake, painted some parts, machined down the heads of the Oil Valley Cover for a little more room, cut down the DOD plug that is in the Valley Cover and extended the wires for it, and made a 90* elbow for the brake booster barb to go over the top of the OPS unit. I will machine a new barb for the PCV to go were the brake booster used to go. Plug the hole in the back of the manifold with a freeze plug. Then machine extensions for the fuel injecters and rail mounts.
Should be ready to go?


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #346, 05-11-2013 04:04 PM
      No progress, just got some barstock for the fuel injector. Adaptors


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #347, 05-27-2013 11:18 PM
      Sorry no updates, my CNC lathe quite working as I was making the fuel injector risers. It cost $100 for two batteries for the controller. I will start working on them again when I get the new batteries.

$70 for three bars of brass stock and $12 for twice as much stock of aluminum. I think I will make one riser out of brass to see how it looks?
What do you think of brass fuel injector risers? They would be polished as bright as I can get them. If you dont know what the risers are, they are an extension between the fuel injectors and the fuel rail. I need to make room under the fuel rail for the larger manifold. So the brass would be visible just over the valve covers under the fuel rail.


Trinten MSG #348, 05-27-2013 11:35 PM
      Whoa! A hundred bucks for two batteries? I hope they're rechargeable and last for years....

Cool that guys like you have the tools and knowledge to fabricate this stuff yourselves.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #349, 05-28-2013 12:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Whoa! A hundred bucks for two batteries? I hope they're rechargeable and last for years....

Cool that guys like you have the tools and knowledge to fabricate this stuff yourselves.


Not rechargeable. Infact they are not that easy to change. I have changed one before, they have three prongs and are soldered in place. I only need one, the other has a shelf life of ten years and is a backup so I wont be down for a week or two waiting for a replacement. Without a good battery, the machine skips steps and wont initialize.

I could buy the adaptors in some "standard" size and made of aluminum, but then I could not say I did it This way I can say that I actually did the swap and made the parts myself. AND I can use whatever material I choose in whatever size and shape I choose.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #350, 06-11-2013 08:32 PM
      Drove the car today, I cant say that it gained. A bunch of power. It does seem a little more peppy. But to get the most out of this swap swap I need to get it dyno tuned. The sound is more raspy or aggressive, but my biggest concern was a check engine light. I did not get an SES light, so I am happy with it.

fieroguru MSG #351, 06-12-2013 06:23 AM
      The intake swap will help at WOT across the power band, but you have to tweak the tune to get the most out of it. The other 3 components that limit power with the LS4 platform are the MAF, exhaust manifolds (mainly the rear one) and the tiny DoD camshaft. Replace the intake and upgrade these other 3 and you will see some impressive gains. Since you are in Cali, you might want to stick to a stock camshaft from one of the more performance oriented LS(x) engines.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #352, 06-12-2013 01:11 PM
      Thanks, for the tips. My problem is not just emisions but I have no idea where I can get a good dyno tune around here.
I have no problem ditching the DOD cam and lifters. Then doing the rest of the upgrades. But they will be sometime down the road when I do the F40 swap.


Jims88 (stumpster60@gmail.com) MSG #353, 06-12-2013 10:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

Some progres. But my PC melted down. So the new one is wont let me upload to Potobucket?

I got the OPS unit moved, ground down the bottom of the intake, painted some parts, machined down the heads of the Oil Valley Cover for a little more room, cut down the DOD plug that is in the Valley Cover and extended the wires for it, and made a 90* elbow for the brake booster barb to go over the top of the OPS unit. I will machine a new barb for the PCV to go were the brake booster used to go. Plug the hole in the back of the manifold with a freeze plug. Then machine extensions for the fuel injecters and rail mounts.
Should be ready to go?


Nice write up on the comparison between the Ls4 and Ls1 intakes
I hadn't realized my Ls4 intake was so restrictive.

When you mention "machining down the heads of the oil valley cover"; is it the valley cover bolt heads?
Also where did the OPS get relocated?
Sorry about all the questions just very intriguing upgrade!


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #354, 06-16-2013 07:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jims88:


Nice write up on the comparison between the Ls4 and Ls1 intakes
I hadn't realized my Ls4 intake was so restrictive.

When you mention "machining down the heads of the oil valley cover"; is it the valley cover bolt heads?
Also where did the OPS get relocated?
Sorry about all the questions just very intriguing upgrade!


I cut down the haeds of the valley cover bolts, but I did not need to. I just wanted to cut something in my lathe.
I did not relocate the Oil Pressure Sending plug, I cut it down so it will fit under the manifold. I did this in three steps because I did not want to take off to much. I wound up cutting a substantial chunk off of it.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #355, 06-20-2013 01:40 AM
      This is a shot of the adaptors and injectors. It demonstrates how they fit together with the keepers.


This is the adaptors and a new hose barb that I made for the PCV that replaced a smaller barb.
I made 1 adaptor out of brass to how it would look. I like the aluminum, so I will stick with them.


This is the new barb in place.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 06-20-2013).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #356, 08-28-2013 09:58 PM
      The car runs great. I still need to get a dyno tune for it. But I think I want a trans shift kit first? Maybe even a chain and sprocket set with a limited slip diff.

The DOD work differently now. I don't realy like the DOD but it concerns me that it does not turn on when I have learned to expect it. The change tells me that the ECM does not see what it wants to see.

The air filter box still fits with the slightly relocated TB.


Trinten MSG #357, 08-28-2013 11:05 PM
      I actually think the brass looks pretty bad cool, has a steampunk feel, then you go talking about putting in gear/sprocket sets... lol

Sorry the DOD isn't working right for you (I still cant' see that acronym without thinking Dept. of Defense first). I hope you get some nice results from the tune and get the DOD bugs worked out!


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #358, 08-28-2013 11:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

I actually think the brass looks pretty bad cool, has a steampunk feel, then you go talking about putting in gear/sprocket sets... lol

Sorry the DOD isn't working right for you (I still cant' see that acronym without thinking Dept. of Defense first). I hope you get some nice results from the tune and get the DOD bugs worked out!


Thanks for the Dept Of Defense comment. Now it will probably stick in my head BUT not as bad as D.I.C. To me this means Driver Info Center and nothing else

I the morning on the way to work it works fine (as far as this type of DOD system goes) but on the way home in 100+ weather the system progressively fails to function. In about 20 min of driving it will no longer work at all. I am OK with it not working. BUT what concerns me is that something electronically prohibits it from functioning properly and makes me wonder what else could be affected by the unknown "malfunction" or borderline Check Engine light? The system worked flawlessly and rock solid predictable before the manifold swap. I used all of the stock sensors and hose connectors. So I suspect that the drivetrain needs a good dyno tune to recalibrate the system to the new manifold.



fieroguru MSG #359, 08-29-2013 06:29 AM
      I suspect it just needs tuned for the better flowing intake. May also be heat/knock related. Here is a list of everything that can keep DoD from functioning (E67, but the E40 should be similar):
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #360, 08-29-2013 12:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

I suspect it just needs tuned for the better flowing intake. May also be heat/knock related. Here is a list of everything that can keep DoD from functioning (E67, but the E40 should be similar):
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
Cool thank you very much.

How is yours turning out?



fieroguru MSG #361, 08-29-2013 01:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
How is yours turning out?


The car is running great, but DoD won't work till I install the BMC for the brake switch input. So I have put DoD off to the side for now and just enjoying the car.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #362, 08-29-2013 01:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


The car is running great, but DoD won't work till I install the BMC for the brake switch input. So I have put DoD off to the side for now and just enjoying the car.


How much of that are you willing to install? If you don't get it all, I would guess that the end result will be the same. A -BRAKE- light in the dash and a shutdown of select systems.

I removed two front wheel bearing speed sensors from a W body and I installed them into a set of front 88 Fiero wheel bearings. I linked two of the Brake Control Modual inputs to one of them and the other two BCM wheel speed sensor inputs to the other. So the front right wheel sends a signal to two inputs and the left front wheel speed sensor sends a speed signal to the other two inputs.
This works perfectly below 50-55mph. But my front wheels are significantly smaller than the stock Monte Carlo wheels. The system detects a different wheel speed input from the wheel speed sensors (smaller wheel turns more times per mile than the BCM expects to see) and the trans speed sensor. The red -BRAKE- light turns on along with the ANTI-LOCK light, TRACTION CONTROL light and an ANOYING "dinging" alarm that lasts for about 30 seconds and runs thru the stereo speakers. The D.I.C also sends several messages at the same time and wont go away till I respond to them by scrolling thru them to clear them.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 08-29-2013).]

fieroguru MSG #363, 08-29-2013 06:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
How much of that are you willing to install?


The bare minimum to get the right brake sensor signal. I would prefer a stand alone controller to send it to minimize the excessive wiring the stock BCM will require. Haven't looked into it much and probably won't until the end of next summer.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #364, 08-29-2013 11:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


The bare minimum to get the right brake sensor signal. I would prefer a stand alone controller to send it to minimize the excessive wiring the stock BCM will require. Haven't looked into it much and probably won't until the end of next summer.

I hate to sound like the bad guy but I cant imagine what could be left out? The trans speed sensor could be amplified and linked to a simulator that could send a signal to each of the BCM wheel speed inputs?
And I guess the rest "could be" tricked I guess?

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 08-29-2013).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #365, 10-30-2013 08:42 PM
      Well the car is going under the knife tomorow. It is having brain surgery and a run on the treadmill

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #366, 10-31-2013 05:49 PM
      Good news and bad news at the Dyno today: The bad news is that the manifold swap I did does not appear to be what I thought it was The good news is that the manifold is an LS6, better than the LS1 that it was suposed to be

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 10-31-2013).]

fieroguru MSG #367, 10-31-2013 06:00 PM
      So what kind of numbers did you run? Something between 260 and 280 whp would by my guess (on a dynojet).

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 10-31-2013).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #368, 10-31-2013 06:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

So what kind of numbers did you run? Something between 260 and 280 whp would by my guess (on a dynojet).



330hp 304tq EDIT OK, I screwed up. I flipped the TQ and HP I have 304HP and 330TQ at the rear wheels. That is exactly what it came from the factory with at the crank. So I can say that I gained back what ever the drivetrain loss was, maybe 15%-20% with the "mods" that I did. If I use the low end of 15% DriveTrain loss, I gained about 45HP at the crank? This is with a free flowing exhaust, LS6 manifold (stock rails, injectors and TB) and a tune.
Will post the chart and vid when I can.
Seems like it should be 330tq and 304 hp at the wheels?

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 10-31-2013).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #369, 10-31-2013 07:52 PM
      We did about 8 dyno pulls. The end result was not the highest power output, because of the fuel trim changes that were done. It was running a bit lean, so after it was adjusted a little fatter the power came down a bit. But this is at a "safe" ratio.
The first few pulls made a good chart, but the last pull was the worst because of a throtle lift, and back on it. So it is the worst "looking" chart I have seen just because of the way the graph shows the lift and recovery.

The base line #001 was 302TQ and the final pull #006 was 334TQ
The base line #001 was 293HP and the final pull #006 was 305HP
some of the pulls were not charted.


fieroguru MSG #370, 10-31-2013 07:52 PM
      Many of the stock LS4's in the W-bodies are seeing 240-250 hp to the wheels, so 304 whp is quite good for just a cat back, intake manifold swap, and tune.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #371, 10-31-2013 08:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Many of the stock LS4's in the W-bodies are seeing 240-250 hp to the wheels, so 304 whp is quite good for just a cat back, intake manifold swap, and tune.


Yes, I am happy with it.
I will say that I have one "extra" mod that could have helped, I have smaller diameter wheels. It is kind of like a gear change.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #372, 11-02-2013 11:14 PM
     
This is the car ready to go on the Dyno and the messed up looking dyno sheet. The sheet is gagged because the operator lifted the throttle for some reason. I don't know why this is the one they printed for me, because they did at least 8 runs. This was the last one of the day so I guess that is why I got this one and it is the only one that did not go smooth?






Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #373, 11-20-2013 12:23 PM
      OK, after driveing the LS4 with an LS6 manifold, a tune and no DOD for at least 1,000 miles I figured out the new MPG to be at 21mpg with no attempt to change my driving style for better economy. I LOOOOOVE the DOD delete and new shift points. The car is even more fun to drive. Smoother and quieter and noticably more powerfull after the tune. But it is a little louder than it used to be, but that is OK with me. For some reason they could not take out or adjust the Rev limiter in P or N so it can only rev up to about 2,500rpm and the speedo is 17mph slower than accual speed at 60 (cheked by GPS) and he tried to fix it twice? I am going to take it back again to see what can be done about it. It works fine for a few miles and then resets to a factory setting even while I am driving it? I have never heard of this? I was watching the "instant MPG" on the D.I.C. and it was at 25mpg on the freeway at about 65mph calibrated by the tune useing GPS (I know the instant is not a true and acurate measurement, but it is close enough) and for no reason at all it dropped to 20mpg. I checked the speedo and it was way of again? It reset while I was driving? I dont know if any other changes in the tune were affected, but I will have it checked when I take it in the next time.
I think the next mod will be a shift kit.


Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #374, 11-21-2013 01:16 AM
      Nice numbers, Rick! That is one bad ass Fiero.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #375, 11-21-2013 01:27 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:

Nice numbers, Rick! That is one bad ass Fiero.


Thanks, I am stumped on my brake issue though? I really hate the way they feel and cant figure out why they feel so spongy?



Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #376, 11-25-2013 11:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


Thanks, I am stumped on my brake issue though? I really hate the way they feel and cant figure out why they feel so spongy?


Could be so many different things.... air in the combo valve, air in the rear pistons (they can be hard to bleed), sticking slides, bulging hoses, grooved rotors with new pads (they won't bed properly), pad kickback due to brake rotor runout (check with a dial indicator on BOTH sides of the rotor) or wheel bearing deflection, flexing caliper brackets, out-of-adjustment rear calipers or frozen ebrake screws, missing anti-rotation pins from rear calipers causing the self-adjustment to not work and give you too much pad clearance... Have you checked for all those?

For bleeding, you could just open all four bleeders and keep pouring fluid into the MC reservoir. Gravity bleed it until you're sure there's no air left.


doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #377, 11-25-2013 11:10 PM
      I had the spongy pedal for years and it used to drive me crazy. My issue was that they were never bled properly. I ended up buying "speed bleeder" screws for the calipers and bled them myself. Pedal is much firmer now and I'm very happy with the speed bleeders. They work great and prevent air being sucked back in when bleeding.

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #378, 11-26-2013 10:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:
air in the combo valve,

maybe? What is the best way to bleed it?
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:
air in the rear pistons (they can be hard to bleed),

I dont think it is this I took the calipers off and removed the pistons for inspection. I then filled them and tapped the air out before installing them. No change at all.
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:
sticking slides, bulging hoses, grooved rotors with new pads (they won't bed properly), pad kickback due to brake rotor runout (check with a dial indicator on BOTH sides of the rotor)

I had one sticking rear slide and replaced the caliper=no change
SS lines and good rotors and pads. There is no vibration or feed back thru the pedal.
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:
or wheel bearing deflection,

Not sure on this one. I cant feel any play in the wheels with the car lifted.
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:
flexing caliper brackets,

Could be? I have WCF 12' C4 rotors and the adaptors could open the door for flexing because it hangs the caliper out further from the wheel bearing?
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:
out-of-adjustment rear calipers or frozen ebrake screws, missing anti-rotation pins from rear calipers causing the self-adjustment to not work and give you too much pad clearance... Have you checked for all those?

Yes, this is all good and the Ebrake works very well. At freeway speed I can safely stop the car but it does takes longer distance to stop.
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:
For bleeding, you could just open all four bleeders and keep pouring fluid into the MC reservoir. Gravity bleed it until you're sure there's no air left.

I have done one wheel at a time like this. started at the shortest brake line to the longest.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 11-26-2013).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #379, 11-26-2013 10:08 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:

I had the spongy pedal for years and it used to drive me crazy. My issue was that they were never bled properly. I ended up buying "speed bleeder" screws for the calipers and bled them myself. Pedal is much firmer now and I'm very happy with the speed bleeders. They work great and prevent air being sucked back in when bleeding.


This does drive me crazy, but I have used the age old two person bleeding system MANY times. Never got any better no matter what I did.



Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #380, 11-28-2013 03:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
maybe? What is the best way to bleed it?


I just use speed bleeders. Pump the brake pedal 4 or 5 times per corner.

 
quote

Could be? I have WCF 12' C4 rotors and the adaptors could open the door for flexing because it hangs the caliper out further from the wheel bearing?


I have the same setup.. so that's not it.

What brake pads do you have and how much material is left on them?

What rotors, and what condition are they in?


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #381, 11-28-2013 12:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:


I have the same setup.. so that's not it.

What brake pads do you have and how much material is left on them?

What rotors, and what condition are they in?



The rotors are in great shape but I know this is not it because the prblem is there even in Park. The only way to make it feel better is to turn the engine off any pump the barkes to let out the vacuume from the booster. Then the feel is much better, but that may just because it has MUCH less mechanical advantage? I have wanted to drive it with the booster vac disconected, but never got around to it.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #382, 04-08-2014 11:37 AM
      Just have to say that the car is still running great and driving it is a blast. So far the engine swap is working perfectly. Just wish I could get around to the 6 speed swap. I drive it MUCH more now with the LS4 then I did with the LX5.

exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #383, 04-08-2014 08:25 PM
     

love your car and have always been a fan of your build.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #384, 04-09-2014 11:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by exoticse:
love your car and have always been a fan of your build.


Cool, thank you.
I keep saying that I willpost some vid or more pics, but never seem to get around to it



PaulJK MSG #385, 04-14-2014 07:32 PM
      Rick, PM sent.

Syn (matthew.ryan.prince@gmail.com) MSG #386, 06-27-2016 08:12 PM
      What ever happened with this project? Never saw the final. Or is it done?

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #387, 09-09-2016 10:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Syn:

What ever happened with this project? Never saw the final. Or is it done?


Sorry, no updates, but I have been racking up the miles on it. LOVE it.
What exactly do you want to know about?
The interior is not done. Accually the car is not done yet. I have not worked on it in 3 years or so.


La fiera MSG #388, 11-13-2017 07:09 PM
      Wow!! That is a lot of work!!! But well done mate!

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #389, 11-14-2017 11:05 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:

Wow!! That is a lot of work!!! But well done mate!


Thanks.
The pictures that won't show are lost for ever I guess? I do not have them stored in my records and now the severe will not host them.


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #390, 12-16-2019 10:32 PM
      Just a bump and a test of the new PFF update. The car is still alive and kicking, even in the rain.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #391, 12-16-2019 10:35 PM
      Sorry, failed
I will try again
Test

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 12-18-2019).]

Trinten MSG #392, 12-17-2019 11:36 AM
      Hey Ricky,

You might be able to use https://archive.org/ to look up the pages on this site (or others) when the pictures were still there. Then you can save them from that Archive and re-upload them someplace (and make backups!)


Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #393, 12-17-2019 02:47 PM
      Thank you