Rebuild of Indy Fiero #163 Super Duty 4
Topic started by: fierosound, Date: 11-03-2008 08:53 AM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000077.html


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #1, 11-03-2008 08:53 AM
      As it looks today (not your stock Indy...)
What sets it apart mechanically is the Super Duty 4 engine with 5-speed Getrag.



DESPITE ALL THE HOOPLA, the consumer version of 1984 Fiero Indy Pace Car is mechanically just the same white 2M4 SE it started out as.
All SE's have the WS6 performance suspension and quick ratio steering rack.

The Indy Package (RPO Y82) added a new Aero-nose fascia, ground effects, new rear fascia and wing with interior and exterior cosmetic packages. There were a couple cosmetic touches on its stock 4-cylinder 92hp "Iron Duke" engine and dual exhaust added. Other than a choice of automatic or manual transmission, all the Indy models performed the same as any other 20-second 1/4 mile "Iron Duke" Fiero.

Indy #163 was sold to me by Chester (I'm 3rd owner) with a 3.3L SD4 engine and TH125 automatic.

Many of you know from my threads that I started working on an 84 project in 2006.
My first post Sept. 3 2006 http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-2-076520.html

Here's the thread on the car's condition when I started working on it right after it arrived.
Lots of pics. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/095615.html





fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #2, 11-03-2008 01:26 PM
      I didn't want a slow progression thread that went on for YEARS, so I started this after most of the work was already done.
These pics were taken in late 2006 when I started working on the car in secret (too embarrassed by condition of my purchase).

Just the start of "after" pics. Starting to look good now.

Once the engine was out and in the shop, the first order of business was getting some basic mechanicals cleaned up.

The front bodywork had already been pulled off to examine the how extensive some prior accident damage (that was NEVER mentioned to me ) had been. After cleanup/touchup of everything, it was reassembled.







Here's the cleaned/painted front suspension parts. Although I replaced the worn steering rack bushing and tie-rod ends (only 19,000 miles on the car??), once the car was driveable, it steered terribly and adjustment of the pinion pre-load was never able to correct the inherent looseness. I ultimately replaced the entire rack with another one from Pick 'n Pull.





Here's the front suspension reassembled. I scrapped the original rusted rotors, and used "like new" rotors I removed from my GT when I did the Lebaron rotor brake upgrade. New SS brake lines, calipers and Porterfield R4-S pads make up the new braking system. I later installed a new master cylinder when it became apparent the old one was no good.



The ball joints were replaced - MOOG "problem solvers" on the upper, and Dickman's 1" lowering balljoints on the lower. Monroe shocks were installed on the front. Energy suspension poly bushings were used for the sway bar and 4" long endlinks. I also decided to install the front springs that came off my GT (thinner wire). The suspension actually moved now.



Part numbers
Energy Suspension PN 9-5158 - black poly sway bar bushings for 7/8" bar w/brackets
Energy Suspension PN 9-8118 - 4" endlinks with black poly
Monroe front shocks PN 5921
Moog upper (problem solver) ball joints PN K5292

At the rear, the balljoints seemed OK and left in place. After cleanup and painting of the control arms, Prothane poly bushings were installed.
New Monroe struts and Eibach rear springs were purchased for installation when the cradle would be reinstalled.



I had an '86 cradle that I cleaned up and painted for the new engine and transmission. The control arms were installed and the Addco rear sway bar was fitted.



As for the braking system, new SS brake lines, calipers and Porterfield R4-S pads were also installed on the rear. In addition, all 3 parking brake cables were replaced.

Part numbers
Monroe rear struts PN 71814
Prothane control-arm bushings PN 7-304
Addco sway bar (rear) PN 387

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-29-2016).]

KurtAKX MSG #3, 11-03-2008 01:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:




Nevermind. I just realized the cradle is upside down from how i thought it was.

[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 11-04-2008).]

KEV (black85gt@yahoo.com) MSG #4, 11-03-2008 05:53 PM
      It's looking great! I'll be doing the same thing to my Indy this winter!



Bremertonfiero (anderson.b@wavecable.com) MSG #5, 11-03-2008 07:40 PM
      where do u get Sd parts?

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #6, 11-03-2008 07:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bremertonfiero:

where do u get Sd parts?


This engine came with it. Use the LINK in the first message to see the details.

New stuff can be bought here: http://www.kansasracingprod...About_the_Block.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-03-2008).]

Bremertonfiero (anderson.b@wavecable.com) MSG #7, 11-03-2008 08:09 PM
      yeah i know about them but like 10 grand for the whole thing.... is there cheaper? or am i dreaming


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #8, 11-03-2008 11:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bremertonfiero:

yeah i know about them but like 10 grand for the whole thing.... is there cheaper? or am i dreaming


eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


Mister MSG #9, 11-04-2008 01:26 AM
      I've seen this car in person. And Fierosound has done an amazing job on it
Stay tuned - you are in for a treat



The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #10, 11-04-2008 02:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


eBay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


Not a bad price for a complete engine plus a spare intake, valve cover, and 3 heads.


Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #11, 11-04-2008 01:53 PM
      All this talk on the Indy Fiero raises questions as to why GM didn't make the SD4 available as an option. The original Indy cars were SD4's but GM ended up offering only a cosmetic copy with a Duke engine for the entire production run. I believe that the answer is that the move was political. An Indy Fiero with an SD4 would have outperformed the Corvettes of that era. GM top brass probably couldn't live with a sports car selling at 1/2 the cost with the ability to blow away a Corvette.



Bremertonfiero (anderson.b@wavecable.com) MSG #12, 11-04-2008 06:18 PM
      thanks and im sorry i hyjacked your thread i will start my own to ask superduty questions.

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #13, 11-06-2008 08:45 AM
      UPDATE: After all this work with the 4T60 4-speed automatic,
I later switched to a Getrag 5-speed manual transmission

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...3/HTML/000077-3.html

4-speed Automatic Install
Since the engine needed rebuilding (in spite of assurances that it didn't), I decided to replace the stock TH125 3-speed automatic (3.18 final drive) with a stronger 4T60 4-speed automatic with a 3.33 final drive (35/35 gears). I purchased a new rebuilt from one of the most reputable shops in town.

Details on this kind of transmission swap here:
http://web.archive.org/web/...s.com/tech/440-4T60/

This non-electronic transmission uses both a TV (Throttle Valve) cable AND vacuum modulator to control shifting. The TV cable is synchronized with the thottle to control shift points, downshifting etc. while the vacuum modulator (get adjustable one) controls line pressure and the firmness of the shifts.



The ECM controls the Torque Convertor Lockup (TCC). To do this the ECM uses engine RPM and inputs from the MAP, TPS, VSS, O2 and engine TEMP sensors. To retain ECM control of the TCC these sensors would need to be retained and a TPS needed to be mounted to the intake manifold. There's other standalone alternatives for TCC control as well.

At a later time, once the car was up and running, I didn't like the 3.33 final drive (35/35 gears), so I dropped the cradle again to have the transmission gearing changed to a 3.73 final drive (33/37 gears) which was much better match with the engine performance and the larger 15" wheels I would be using. Runs 70mph at about 2400rpm with 215/60R15 tires.

Stock transmission and engine mounts were used at first. It later became apparent that this tilted the engine/tranmission toward the trunk firewall and would cause manifold clearance issues. The first indicator that something was off was that the axles didn't seem to line up correctly. Hadn't anyone ever noticed this before?





It became more apparent when we test fit the engine. I was not possible to get the 4-cylinder intake on because there wasn't enough clearance between the head and firewall. Basically, the front of the transmission was too high and the mount needed to be modified. Before and after pictures.

The bracket sits on the end of the intake manifold and the 3/8" thick plywood is a mockup of this thickness.



Changing the front transmission mount brings everything back in line. The intake manifold will now fit.



The rubber was burned off the stock Fiero bracket. An Anchor Industries 2266 mount (67-69 Dodge Dart 273 V8 engine mount) is used. It is about 1-inch thick and has 2 offset mounting bolts. It was positioned and a bolt was drilled in the Fiero bracket. It was then bolted in place between the transmission side bracket and the Fiero bracket. The assembly lines up with the second set of bolt holes in the cradle. This positions the transmission correctly.

Not my pic, but this gives you an idea on what the transmission mount would look like.
More on this here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/082950.html



Both the right and left axle assemblies for a 1989 Pontiac 6000 (with 2.8 V6, 4T60 and light duty brakes w/o ABS) were purchased. There are plenty of other combinations of parts that can be used to assemble DIY axles that will fit, but this was the simplest solution. These have the correct mating ends for the transmission and the 20mm diameter spindle to match the Fiero hubs. They can be purchased off the shelf at most auto parts stores and install directly without modification.

Part numbers
A1 CARDONE PN 601078 - LEFT side drive axle (21-inches long overall)
A1 CARDONE PN 601115 - RIGHT side drive axle (26.25-inches long overall)

A Derale transmission cooler was installed to handle transmission cooling requirements. The radiator didn't leak in static testing, so it was reinstalled. Later it turned out that coolant would seep out around the edges of the driver's side end tank once the system was hot and pressurized. A new radiator was installed at that time.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-07-2018).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #14, 11-10-2008 09:53 AM
      Not much interest in any of this?? But someone paints their GT yellow and there's 5 pages of comments?

Here's what I did on the interior. It was completely removed and a thorough cleaning of the door panels and all other components was undertaken. The floor mats and carpeting was steam cleaned. The sun-faded "blue" speaker grills were recovered with new speaker fabric. The shifter surround and shifter plate were reglued.

While the interior was out, sound proofing was installed as well as a new stereo system.





To still maintain a "factory" look a Pontiac CD player was installed, but high-end equipment was used in all hidden locations. New Clearwater speakers were installed in the seat headrests and Infinity component speakers went in the dash.

A factory sub-woofer housing with a Tang-band sub went into the factory location.



To power the sub, a Xtant 1.1i 100 watt mono amp was used. This tiny amp really delivers and is perfect for the job because it can be installed under the passenger seat.



Complete stereo writeup here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000031.html

When I received the car, the radio surround was terribly warped and needed to repaired or replaced.



The lack of an oil pressure gauge in the instrument cluster REALLY bothered me because I consider that the MOST important gauge to have. That's why I installed GT gauges and a new radio surround. It's "factory", looks correct, does the job and I needed to replace the warped radio surround anyway. I still have a 2nd voltmeter in the tach, but that's not a big bother.

How to add the gauge cluster: http://www.frontiernet.net/...tt/AuxGageInstal.htm

I never did like the original T-bar type automatic shifter and most others eithers are either too big (Cobra head type) or look wrong (aftermarket aluminum). I found something perfect from 84-96 Corvette - a small size, top-button, dark grey leather wrapped knob that suits the car's interior perfectly. This is smaller than a similar design used in other GMs like Cavaliers, Grand AMs etc. I mounted it on a shortened shifter shaft and installed a new leather boot I purchased from Rodney Dickman.



The previous owner sold the original "mint" Indy seats. Although the Mr Mike's leathers were nice, I'd have preferred a set of originals, but another set of mint seats are few and far between. As luck would have it, we found some OEM red embossed Indy seat fabric which I purchased and had sent off to Mr Mike. Mike did up a beautiful set of repro Indy seats.



I cleaned up the rusty seat rails and repainted them and bought the proper light grey color recliner covers to replace the incorrect dark grey ones the seats in the Indy came with. Once assembled, only an Indy purist would notice that these are not the original seats. The only difference is that the backs of the seats aren't grey fabric like the originals.



The terrible condition of the sunvisors and headliner required that they be replaced. I bought new sunvisors and a headliner recover kit from the Fiero Store. It was a bit of work, but I successfully recovered and reinstalled the headliner and the new visors. I also added the coathooks - 84's didn't have any.



More to come. The engine is next...

Edit: pictures added

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-09-2016).]

87_special MSG #15, 11-10-2008 12:24 PM
      Wow! What a nice job you are doing. I'd love to be able to just fully restore my 87 se. Keep up the good work I'm watching eagerly.

-Joseph



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #16, 11-10-2008 12:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 87_special:

Wow! What a nice job you are doing.


Thank you. Here's a shot of the front compartment. After getting the damage to the hood repaired, the underside was repainted. The overflow and windshield washer tanks had both yellowed, so I replaced them with new ones from Fiero Store. I had the spare tire cover from some time ago and decided to use it here.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-10-2008).]

FieroWannaBe (patond@alumni.msoe.edu) MSG #17, 11-10-2008 01:56 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

Details on this kind of transmission swap here: www.spacecoastfieros.com/tech/440%2D4T60

Both the right and left axle assemblies for a 1989 Pontiac 6000 (with 2.8 V6, 4T60 and light duty brakes w/o ABS) were purchased. There are plenty of other combinations of parts that can be used to assemble DIY axles that will fit, but this was the simplest solution. These have the correct mating ends for the transmission and the 20mm diameter spindle to match the Fiero hubs. They can be purchased off the shelf at most auto parts stores and install directly without modification.

Part numbers
A1 CARDONE PN 601078 - LEFT side drive axle (21-inches long overall)
A1 CARDONE PN 601115 - RIGHT side drive axle (26.25-inches long overall)


That's great Info on the transmission, I was given one that I would like to use in one of my cars, pending on its driving condition.

[This message has been edited by FieroWannaBe (edited 11-10-2008).]

wftb (danjesso@bmts.com) MSG #18, 11-10-2008 04:00 PM
      great job .keep up the posts , this is all good info .

blackrams (blackrams7@aol.com) MSG #19, 11-10-2008 04:59 PM
      Wow Tony! All I can say is that sure isn't the car I delivered to you way back when. Though I don't pretend to have any special insight into the car, I did transport it and therefore was under the car to tie it down and did a pretty close inspection to note any issues prior to transporting it. It was a pretty nice but typical car with the exception of the SD4 in the engine bay and a pretty nice interior. You've really transformed that ride into something special. Congrats

Ron


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #20, 11-10-2008 05:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:

You've really transformed that ride into something special. Congrats



Thanks. Stay tuned - you aint' seen nothing yet!

This car will "wow" people at WoW (World of Wheels) next February.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-10-2008).]

fiero67 (fiero67@netscape.net) MSG #21, 11-10-2008 06:00 PM
      great job you are doing. I love threads like these that restore indy fieros. I wish I had one. keep posting !!! John



Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #22, 11-10-2008 06:31 PM
      I saw this car a few years back at Carlisle when the previous owner showed it and it looked nothing like you have it looking now. For the money that you paid it should have looked like this when you received it. Not trying to rub it in but just wanted to complement your fine work. Do the future plans include converting to EFI? The Webers that you have are efficient carbs but there is no room for any real air filtering. I believe that EFI would boost cold weather starting, efficiency, drivability and gas mileage With a 4BBL manifold from Clifford you could bolt on a Holley TB or even an AC Delco injection system.



The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #23, 11-10-2008 07:02 PM
      Actually an intake from Clifford research won't work on a Super Duty head. It will bolt up alright. But the ports on the SD-4 head are so big they are actually taller than the intake flange in those intakes. Same with the stock ones. Not sure about the Holley TBI intake.

Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #24, 11-10-2008 10:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by The_Stickman2:

Actually an intake from Clifford research won't work on a Super Duty head. It will bolt up alright. But the ports on the SD-4 head are so big they are actually taller than the intake flange in those intakes. Same with the stock ones. Not sure about the Holley TBI intake.



Well, it looks like the four expert has me proved wrong again but what do you expect from a diehard V6 man? Then I must acknowledge that the SD4 head ports must be huge, so much so, that even porting the Clifford intake won't do it. The Holley TB FI system will bolt up to any manifold that is drilled for a Holley carburetor but since we don't have such a manifold then that takes out that option unless an intake can be made up from mandrel tubing with a flange welded to it or we modifiy an SD4 manifold. A while ago I read the performance specs of the SD4 and geeze that engine screams!



Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #25, 11-10-2008 10:46 PM
      Nice job!
I wondered about that car...

 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

...I didn't like the 3.33 final drive (35/35 gears), so I dropped the cradle again to have the transmission gearing changed to a 3.73 final drive (33/37 gears) which was much better match with the engine performance and the larger 15" wheels I would be using.


Before I did my 5 speed swap, I was also contemplating doing this with a 4T60, to use with my 3.4.
Did you do the work yourself?
Do you know how difficult it was?



Bradley Jay (bradleyj.thompson@sbcglobal.net) MSG #26, 11-10-2008 11:49 PM
      And where the HECK did you get that Indy Fabric?

Great build so far, keep it up.


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #27, 11-11-2008 11:27 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bradley Jay:

And where the HECK did you get that Indy Fabric?

Great build so far, keep it up.


Thank you

Dom Corey Interiors - I don't think he has any left though. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/042279.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-11-2008).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #28, 11-11-2008 12:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:

Wow Tony! All I can say is that sure isn't the car I delivered to you way back when. Though I don't pretend to have any special insight into the car, I did transport it and therefore was under the car to tie it down and did a pretty close inspection to note any issues prior to transporting it. It was a pretty nice but typical car with the exception of the SD4 in the engine bay and a pretty nice interior...



Thanks Ron. Pictures of what you delivered here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/095615.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-11-2008).]

Fiero5 MSG #29, 11-12-2008 11:49 AM
      Wow!

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #30, 11-12-2008 07:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

IDo the future plans include converting to EFI? The Webers that you have are efficient carbs but there is no room for any real air filtering. I believe that EFI would boost cold weather starting, efficiency, drivability and gas mileage With a 4BBL manifold from Clifford you could bolt on a Holley TB or even an AC Delco injection system.



Nope. We don't have the expertise up here to get something like that tuned and working properly. If it was a Chev or Ford V8 - no problem. Everybody's an "expert" in those things to the point where they don't have to think. And THAT's the problem. It's like the problem I had when I went Supercharged - it's outside everyone's area of expertise. The engine shop never saw a 4-banger like this before - luckliy all they needed was a complete copy of the SD4 guide.

Keep in mind, this will not be a daily driver, won't be driven in winter weather at all and will be primarily a summer weekend driver and a Show and Shine participant.



Lilchief MSG #31, 11-12-2008 08:06 PM
      Fierosound: Very impressive rebuild. Just a few questions. How does the SD 3.3L compare to the 2.8 or even a 3.4 ? Or is it closer to a SC 3.8 ? Have you ran any 1/4 mile times? And what kind of gas mileage does it get? You said something in the lines of engine work, what are your plans? Do you have any specs on the present engine,hp, tq, internal components? Just curious cause I'm working on a 3.0L SD/Merc for my 88 coupe. Well a big 2 thumbs up on your project. I like it.



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #32, 11-13-2008 09:05 AM
      Lilchief - see your PM

The real "meat" of the project was the 3.3L SD4 engine.

After all, that was the BIG selling point "Dirty Rat" Chester was bragging about and supposedly made this Indy such a bargain for whoever "bought in" (suckered by) what he was saying. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-4-032634.html

Unfortunately, contrary to everything that was said, the engine did need a complete rebuild and many $$$.

The cylinders had some wear and we determined that the pistons had .008" piston-to-wall clearance - way too much!! That explained in part the low compression test readings of 92psi. JE pistons specify a .0045" piston-to-wall clearance for their pistons (these were JE's).

The engine block went through all the usual rebuild procedures. The block was hot-tanked, align honed, decked, cylinders bored and honed for 4.020" diameter pistons, and new freeze plugs installed.





The new Stainless Steel intake valves are 2.055" diameter and the exhaust valves are 1.600" in diameter. Here's a comparison of what came out and the new SS valves that would be installed.



The bare head was cleaned up, milled, and new bronze guides installed, along with the new SS valves, dual valve springs, keepers and locks. According to the SD4 engine guide, the Paul Vanderley designed SD4 heads out of the box (before any porting) flow 88% more than a stock Duke head!





I had the crank and rods magnafluxed to make sure they were OK. They passed inspection and were then prepped for the engine. The crank bearing surfaces were ground/polished and the connecting rods had their ends resized.



The head cc'd at 58cc in the combustion chambers. It was calculated that a 4.020" zero deck piston with a 20cc dish would give us a 10.5 to 1 compression ratio - should be workable with premium pump gas.





Here's the "goods" waiting to go into the readied block after coming back from balancing - pistons, reground crank, and resized rods.



...and a couple of shots of the reassembled short block.



You can see some minor grinding in the block walls required to clear the connecting rod throws.





Once they had the head installed, I would be bringing it home!

The installed billet Crane roller camshaft PN 298011 was designed for solid roller lifters and a 1.55 ratio. It had been sent to Geoff at Colt Cams Inc (Langley, B.C.) and was reground to a suitable single-pattern hydraulic roller street/strip profile compatible with the new CR of 10.5, and the Crane Gold 1.71 ratio roller rockers that were on the engine.

Colt Cams camshaft (ref# C822IH) specs:
Duration: intake/exhaust 224 degrees @ .050"
Lift @ cam: intake/exhaust .310"
Lift @ valve: intake/exhaust .530"
LDA (Lobe Displacement Angle): 110 degrees
Rocker arm ratio: 1.71

Operating RPM range of the cam with matching springs is 2000-6500rpm. New hydraulic roller lifters and hardened pushrods will complete the valvetrain. A steel camshaft gear set was used to drive the camshaft off the crank. Here's how the specs of the reground camshaft compare to the Ultradyne hydraulic roller cams made for the SD4.



Part numbers
SD4 Engine block GM PN 10027634
SD4 aluminium cylinder head (Brodix?) GM PN 10038433
Forged connecting rods (6") GM PN 14011091
Forged crankshaft (3.9375" stroke) GM PN 10041860

There were several SD4 cranks available for displacements from 2.0 to 3.3L
(with 4.000" bore) so engine could be used in many racing classes.

PN 10042835 2.600" stroke - 2.0L
PN 10027778 3.000" stroke - 2.5L
PN 10027779 3.250" stroke - 2.7L
PN 10093312 3.625" stroke - 3.0L
PN 10041860 3.9375" stroke - 3.3L

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 07-14-2017).]

Hudini (hudini@tds.net) MSG #33, 11-13-2008 09:36 AM
      Very, very nice.

stinky817 (b.stinski@gmail.com) MSG #34, 11-13-2008 10:14 AM
      yes yes, very very nice

I've always had a soft spot for the 84's as well. i actually own 2 84's


The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #35, 11-13-2008 02:13 PM
      Now that's an engine and build done right.



82-T/A [At Work] MSG #36, 11-13-2008 03:20 PM
      Wow, that really, REALLY looks nice.

I've got a quick question. Do you have other projects you're working on at the same time, or are you JUST focusing all your attention and time to this one vehicle? Only reason I ask is because the attention to detail is amazing... I've done work of that quality as well, but now that I'm stupidly juggling 3 projects, I find that I just don't have the time to sand down every part and repaint it.


Also, that sound deadening material, is that dynomat type stuff? I typically install stuff like that in cars that I fix up, but I'm hesitant to do it on my 87 Fiero since I don't want to line the floorpans with stuff I won't be able to remove. Is the stuffy tacky, or does it just lay in there?

Thanks!!!



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #37, 11-13-2008 03:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

...but now that I'm stupidly juggling 3 projects, I find that I just don't have the time to sand down every part and repaint it.

Is the stuffy tacky, or does it just lay in there?


Thanks everyone, been working on it since Sept 2006. You'll find that working on more than one project at the same time means none ever get finished.

The soundproofing I used is a peel & stick roofing material that seems to made of a similar material to Dynamat. Thought I’d try it. Covered it here in the stereo thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/081643.html

The “other car” - 87 GT - is kinda done. Just maintaining it so it keeps winning awards. It's been jealous of the attention on the Indy.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 04-01-2012).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #38, 11-15-2008 12:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

I saw this car a few years back at Carlisle when the previous owner showed it and it looked nothing like you have it looking now. For the money that you paid it should have looked like this when you received it. Not trying to rub it in but just wanted to complement your fine work.



I'd have to agree with you. What really shocked me was how "beat up" the car was for something with ONLY 19,000 miles...

I've seen cars with 50,000 miles or more that still look BRAND NEW so I don't think I was out of line expecting this to be better than it was.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-17-2008).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #39, 11-17-2008 08:36 AM
      Wo-hoo!! The assembled long-block engine is painted and on the cradle.

Here it is with the timing cover, harmonic balancer and water pump installed. My machine shop matched the old ruined harmonic balancer with one from a Chevy truck 6-cylinder engine. All that was required was slight boring to fit the crank and cutting of a new timing mark.



We did a test fit of the cradle and that's when we confirmed that something was not sitting right with the way the engine/transmission was mounted. We had "pushed" the engine to get the dogbone bolted up, but the Edelbrock 4-bbl manifold did not fit between the head and trunk firewall. There was LOTS of head scratching trying to figure this one out.



Only after checking things over and over again, we discovered that mounting the transmission on stock Fiero mounts tilted the powertrain back, because the front transmission mount is too high and needed modification. I'd never seen this mentioned anywhere before, but then the V6 engines aren't as close to the trunk firewall so people likely haven't noticed.

It's covered in earlier posts above and in a thread here:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...110502-2-082950.html

When I bought this car, Chester said it "only needed" a custom mounting block for a hi-torque starter because nobody made one to fit the SD4. Actually, Tilton has a high-torque starter to fit the SD4 and has it listed on their website. I had it in my hands before the car arrived!! But it was immediately obvious that the car needed more than a new starter, battery, oil change, coolant and fresh fuel to get the thing running.



I then found a Tilton starter with a butchered mounting block that they'd been trying to fit, in the Indy's trunk! The problem wasn't lack of a suitable starter, but the way the solenoid is "clocked" when the Tilton starter is installed. The starter only fits this way because the offset gearing doesn't permit clocking it to get the solenoid on top - the motor hits the block. The solenoid clashes with the header's primary pipe from cylinder #4 because of the way the it is tilted outward.



Rather than try to modify the way the starter mounted to the engine (as Chester had tried), it was necessary to change the header - either to a different one, or modify the one we have. Finding new headers of any type for the Fiero Duke was impossible, so I decided to modify the old header.



The old exhaust is shown in detail here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/095615.html

You can see that the while header's primary pipe from cylinder #4 would clear the stock starter with solenoid directly on top, it would now clash with the Tilton starter's solenoid.



The "Competition" Hooker header was a 4-into1 long primary tube design. It wasn't especially suited to the street because of the way it ran under the cradle and reduced road clearance - a liability if the car is lowered. You also can't install a rear sway bar because of it.



I decided on a compromise and modify it into a 4-into1 "shorty" design header. We cut back the tubes to change the location of the collector, and changed the routing of the primary pipe from cylinder #4 to clear the starter. After modification and the final welding, the entire header was ceramic coated.



A ceramic coated exhaust heat shield was also installed. It shields the water pump and A/C compressor from exhaust heat at the front of the engine, and protects the wiring and starter to some degree on the transmission end. The 3" exhaust runs under the cradle and just clears the rear sway bar below it.



On the other side of the engine I installed an Paul Vanderley designed Edelbrock Victor Jr 4-bbl aluminum manifold. The SD4 head had already been ported, so both the intake gasket and intake manifold were ported to match the head. Prior to installation, the manifold was clear powder coated to protect it and keep it looking good. It is topped with a polished Edelbrock AVS 4-bbl carburetor.

An ATI polished aluminum carb bonnet will be directing air into the carburetor. This item is originally intended for use in supercharged or turbocharged blow-through carburetor applications. As it happens, it matches the new polished Edelbrock valve cover topping the engine perfectly.



The ONLY valve cover gasket you want to use on the Duke is Felpro PN FEL-VS50179T - especially with this Edelbrock valve cover. Don't use the cork or cork/rubber ones as they always tend to leak. This rubber/steel gasket has raised edges to seal properly and comes with all the hardware needed for installation.





Part numbers
SD4 PONTIAC valve cover (Edelbrock) GM PN 10031327
Edelbrock/GM 4-bbl manifold GM PN 10038470
Fel-Pro intake gasket (cut to fit) PN FPP-12381
Edelbrock Thunder AVS carb PN 1803
Fel-Pro valve cover gasket PN FEL-VS50179T
Tilton starter PN 54-10011
Stant 180* thermostat PN 13818, PN 45818 (Premium)
OR MotoRad PN 211-180, PN 7211-180 (Fail safe)

The distributor I decided to use was a coil-in-cap HEI design with centrifugal and adjustable vacuum advance as this would be the best and simplest solution and because of the great number of performance items available. I'm using an MSD distributor module and MSD coil with it.

The distributor's centrifugal advance was tailored to bring in 38* by 2800rpm and limited to 52* total with vacuum advance. Magnecor plug wires send the charge to Autolite spark plugs. DEI boots protect the plugs and boots from the heat of the headers.



Part numbers
Magnecor wire kit PN 49143 (universal cut-to-fit)
DEI Protect-A-Boots (heat protection) PN 010522 (set/8)
Spark Plugs - Autolite 4062

At the front of the engine, it was now possible to use the proper dogbone/alternator bracket and dogbone. The clunky old alternator was tossed in favor of the newer smaller CS design used on the 88 Fieros. Braided lines drain oil from connections on the intake manifold to inlet ports in the Miloden oil pan.



This is now spotless and looking VERY different from the engine that came out of this Indy.
Refresh your memory: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/095615.html

A new exhaust was built, header to tips. I used a Flowtech Afterburner cross-flow muffler designed for the Camaro. The dolly is pushing up on the exhaust pipe which is why it looks like the muffler is hanging crooked in this picture.



Part numbers
Fel-Pro SD4 header gasket PN FPP-1441
Flowtech Afterburner muffler PN 50363FLT
Hooker resonator tips PN 21430HKR



In the meantime, I also got the engine bay ready. The old ratty insulation was removed, everything scrubbed down and paint touched up as needed, before new OEM looking insulation went in.



[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-03-2012).]

The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #40, 11-17-2008 02:49 PM
      I am SOOO jealous.

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #41, 11-17-2008 04:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by The_Stickman2:

I am SOOO jealous.


- but you have this to work with. What's the status on your engine? Can you update your thread?

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/069905.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-17-2008).]

KurtAKX MSG #42, 11-17-2008 05:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:
The distributor's centrifugal advance was tailored to bring in 38* by 2800rpm and limited to 52* total with vacuum advance.


That's like waaaaay waaaaaayy more timing than I would expect. Is there an explanation?


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #43, 11-17-2008 07:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

That's like waaaaay waaaaaayy more timing than I would expect. Is there an explanation?


In a computerized system, the ECM handles all of this. All you do is set base timing.

The SD4 guide calls for 34-38 degrees total advance (base + centrifugal advance). Race applications would not bother with a vaccum advance distributor, but I have the the vacuum advance for part throttle/highway cruise. Seems to work fine. Lots of articles around dealing with non-computerized HEI ignition:

http://www.chevyhiperforman...wto/97438/index.html
http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/hei.htm
http://www.chevyhiperforman...s_modules/index.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 12-30-2013).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #44, 11-20-2008 08:35 AM
      Engine is in the car!! What'cha think? Looks good to me

A general view of the engine as installed. I managed to find and ceramic coated the heat shield for the upper firewall that protects the A/C hoses, wiring and electrical connector going through the bulkhead. In later years, this electrical connector was moved next to the battery. This heat shield is different for A/C and non-A/C cars.



The only engine parts we reused were the Crane Gold Race 1.7 roller rockers.



When the head was rebuilt, the hole at the front of the head was plugged and a stock thermostat housing was installed in the factory location at the back of the head. This allowed use of a stock coolant hose instead of the junk hose/adapters/bypass setup that came with the car.



A new AC Delco pump (TBI uses 14 lbs) had been installed in the fuel tank. In order to use a carburetor, the fuel pressure needs to be cut to 5 lbs, so a Holley adjustable fuel pressure regulator was installed after the fuel filter. Because of the closeness to the trunk firewall, a Holley carburetor will not fit due to its overhanging fuel bowls.



There's only about 1-inch of clearance past the end of manifold, so in order to use a Holley, the trunk wall would need modification. This would be similar to what was done on the actual Pace Car to accomodate the air cleaner, but you can see how tight everything is.



I decided to use an Edelbrock AVS 4-bbl carburetor because its body arrangement fits. It is a 500cfm carb but that's the smallest they make (a little too big, but more on that later). Edelbrock Performer/Thunder carbs are essentially clones of the Carter Super-Quad AFB/AVS series of carburetors. The Edelbrock carbs are cast by Weber these days.



Part numbers
Edelbrock Thunder AVS carb PN 1803
Holley adjustable fuel pressure regulator PN HLY-12-803
Holley fuel pressure gauge PN 26-500
AC Delco fuel pump PN EP386

Here's where the installer of the SD4 seemed to give up when they installed the engine with the Weber sidedraft carbs. The carb requires connection for the throttle cable, cruise cable and transmission TV cable and the Webers only had a bracket for the throttle cable. In addition, a TPS is also required on the throttle for the ECM to control torque convertor lockup. There's no "off the shelf" brackets for any of this.



For my carb setup, I decided to adapt and modify the "throttle wheel" setup GM had used with 87 and up TBI Duke engines. An 87 Fiero throttle cable, cruise cable and TV cable all connect to this wheeled contraption and only 1 cable then attaches to the carb's throttle. This simplifies everything!



The wheel also gives you a 90-degree turn, allowing the control cables to run between the valve cover and carburetor. A TPS was also attached to the bracket and connected to the carburetor's throttle.



An open-topped air cleaner from a Cavalier Z24 was mounted in the same area where the air cleaner is located in later model V6 Fieros. The stock cruise control parts (vacuum canister, diaphram, solenoid etc) were removed and a less bulky Delco electronic cruise unit was installed below the air cleaner.



Some wrecking yard searching yielded two flex air pipes to connect the 3" aluminum tube that is plumbed from the air cleaner to the ATI carb bonnet



Getting at the Duke's oil filter has always been a problem. From above, it's basically under the alternator and unreachable. From below, it's not bad with a manual transmission and bloody awful with an automatic (likely why 88's had the filter IN the oil pan). It's IMPOSSIBLE with the added length of the 4T60 4-speed auto. You can't even see the oil filter!



A Trans-Dapt remote oil filter adapter had already been installed on the engine and I decided to make good use of it. There's a way to keep these from leaking. I bought the remote oil filter bracket, mounted it, and got new braided lines made up to connect it.



I decided to put it in the right wheelwell beneath the "shelf" on the trunk's right hand side. Braided lines carry oil to/from the engine. This location make oil filter changes much easier. The wheelwell liner/splash shield protects the installation from road debris and the filter can be reached from below the bumper with an extension.

It's also not a big deal to pull the tire and a portion of the wheelwell liner if needed. I do my own oil changes - can't trust anybody with this

UPDATE: Removed remote filter stuff when I switched to a Getrag 5-speed. The stock filter location is OK with a manual transmission.

Part numbers
Trans-Dapt remote oil fiter - spin-on bypass PN 1050
Trans-Dapt remote filter bracket PN 1045
WIX oil filter PN 51516

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-24-2012).]

Toddster (toddamelio@gmail.com) MSG #45, 11-20-2008 09:25 AM
      This thread ROCKS!

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #46, 11-20-2008 10:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:

This thread ROCKS!


Thank you! I think some people are too shy or awed to say anything!

I've seen more comments on somebody's new shifter knob.

Engine finished and the car was on the road in August 2007

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-23-2012).]

fiero67 (fiero67@netscape.net) MSG #47, 11-20-2008 06:45 PM
      wow...this thread is on my favorites list. You do really great and detailed work! John

Toddster (toddamelio@gmail.com) MSG #48, 11-20-2008 09:41 PM
      Is that air scoop from a Caddy 4.9?

Curlrup MSG #49, 11-20-2008 11:49 PM
      I want one!!! I will pay you $20 to make one for me. That is $20 whole dollars to do anything you want with.

Bradley Jay (bradleyj.thompson@sbcglobal.net) MSG #50, 11-21-2008 01:05 AM
      Looks great in that engine bay. Is this going to be a trailer queen?

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #51, 11-21-2008 08:26 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bradley Jay:

Looks great in that engine bay. Is this going to be a trailer queen?


Nope. I had originally planned to drive it to the 25th Anniversary Show - but the Indy wasn't ready on time.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-21-2008).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #52, 11-21-2008 08:54 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:

Is that air scoop from a Caddy 4.9?



Nope.

 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

An ATI polished aluminum carb bonnet will be directing air into the carburetor. This item is originally intended for use in supercharged or turbocharged blow-through carburetor applications.



It’s an ATI carb bonnet with a 3-inch inlet. I got it directly from ATI although there’s similar items on eBay and from www.summitracing.com (search for Plenum)

Carb bonnet “history” http://www.vs57.com/bonnets.htm

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-22-2008).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #53, 11-21-2008 08:58 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Curlrup:

I want one!!! I will pay you $20 to make one for me. That is $20 whole dollars to do anything you want with.


Thanks - but they show up on ebay



Curlrup MSG #54, 11-21-2008 08:59 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


Thanks - but they show up on ebay


For 20 dollars??


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #55, 11-21-2008 09:04 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Curlrup:

For 20 dollars??


Just a little more: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #56, 11-24-2008 08:56 AM
      Indy scoop or not??? An Indy scoop is more for appearance than anything else. Had I found an Indy scoop with working strobes - I would have considered using it because of it's novelty appeal.



Otherwise, the scoop does not lend itself easily to being functional and makes it a pain to open the decklid. It also looks dumb sitting over top of the central decklid grill. I would have changed over to a solid decklid and the louvered side vents had I found a strobe-lighted Indy scoop.

Personally, I liked the look of the dual over-the-roof Fi-Air-O scoops better. These come up on eBay every now and then, and I managed to snag a pair painted gloss black.



Both sides can be made functional and they aren't a hindrance everytime you want to open the decklid. They definitely catch people's attention sticking over the roof like Mickey Mouse "ears".





The scoop on the left, feeds directly into the open-topped Cavalier Z24 air cleaner I mounted below it. The one on the right feeds cool air into the engine bay beside the battery. With the central grill allowing heat out, the engine heat gets well vented with the car moving.





The previous owner sold the original Indy wheels. Rather than looking for another Indy set, I decided to find and install a set of 15"x6" Dodge Daytona wheels. I like the look of these better anyway. These are the only wheels, OEM or aftermarket, that come closest in appearance to the actual Pace Car wheels.



They have a smooth polished center disk, with a series of 16 holes along the outer edge and are also a vintage that doesn't look out of place for a 1984 car. They were installed with all new lug nuts, wheel locks and black lug caps. I used the GT tire sizing of P205/60R15/front and P215/60R15/rear.

Goodyear tires would have been standard, but they did not have the correct size tires with Raised White Letters (RWL).



Firestone Indy 500 would have been really cool too, but again they didn't have RWL in the sizes required.



I settled on BF Goodrich Radial T/A tires, about the ONLY brand tires with RWL in a complete range of sizes, including GT sizing: P205/60R15/front and P215/60R15/rear. While I'd never use RWL on my GT, I think the white letters on a white "race car look" Indy is a nice combination. It just "looks right" to me



Most people seem to agree, because you can't stop anywhere - not even a red light - without people wanting to engage in a conversation about the Indy.

Of course, even after looking at the door decal, they still ask "What year is it"? DOH!!!

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-24-2008).]

blackrams (blackrams7@aol.com) MSG #57, 11-24-2008 02:29 PM
      You chose well on the wheel selection.

Ron


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #58, 11-24-2008 02:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:

You chose well on the wheel selection.



Thanks. I figured only Indy wheels or these Daytona wheels would do. The Indy screams 1984.

It just wouldn't look right with the latest 2009 model 17-inch, 10-spoke, "crab design" wheels.



KurtAKX MSG #59, 11-24-2008 05:32 PM
      where are the running/driving videos? You've got the same head, same compression, and almost exactly the same cam I'm going with, so I'm eager to hear it run.

hklvette MSG #60, 11-24-2008 07:27 PM
      That car is flat-out Schmokin'! I love it! If only my base '86 looked half that good...

Santa Nic (santa_nic@shaw.ca) MSG #61, 11-25-2008 08:46 PM
      Tony, having seen the car from the pick up moment, I am extremely impressed with the outcome. Having talked to you many times during reconstruction, and sometimes helping, I still did not know the extend of the work you did. I would not, however, have expected anything less from you. JOB WELL DONE. My hat is of to you........... Santa Nic

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #62, 11-26-2008 08:38 AM
      Thanks guys. But at this point, it doesn't look quite as good as the photos if you walk around it in person. As I learned the HARD WAY (expensive too) even a "20 foot car" CAN be made to look great in photographs. You only use the "right" photos from clever angles that highlight the good points and deliberately HIDE the car's flaws.

This Indy was nowhere "near mint" by any stretch of the imagination (except in Chester's) and neither was the paint. The car had been in an accident, the damage poorly repaired (or not at all), the clear coat was etched from tree sap and there were many other flaws in the paint and body - none of which was even hinted at.

Sales pitch here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-4-032634.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-26-2008).]

Hudini (hudini@tds.net) MSG #63, 11-26-2008 09:01 AM
      Very nice build. Looks like your hard work paid off.

You said earlier the carb was too big?

Would it be possible to turn the Holley so the bowls are left/right instead of front/back?


whodeanie (dean@glassworksga.com) MSG #64, 11-26-2008 09:25 AM
      looking good keep us posted.

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #65, 11-26-2008 10:19 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:

Would it be possible to turn the Holley so the bowls are left/right instead of front/back?


Yup, but you would have uneven fuel distribution. You'd have both primaries "closer to one end" of the engine - either cylinders 1&2 or 3&4.

I've found another carb that should be more suitable. Just haven't installed it yet. More on this later.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-26-2008).]

hye_4_life MSG #66, 11-27-2008 04:27 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

In the meantime, I also got the engine bay ready. The old ratty insulation was removed, everything scrubbed down and paint touched up as needed, before new OEM looking insulation went in.







What did you use for the OEM looking insulation?


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #67, 11-27-2008 09:00 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by hye_4_life:

What did you use for the OEM looking insulation?


Manson Akousti-liner. It's a commercial duct insulation.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-1-059476.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-27-2008).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #68, 11-28-2008 08:42 AM
      The final touches, just done in September 2008. NEW PAINT!!
A long hard road since I had received the car in August 2006.

New paint was the ONE THING I thought I wouldn't have to do. The paint is the single most expensive NEW thing when restoring a vehicle (you don't use Maaco on something like this). Cost almost as much as buying the car in the first place!

The Indy had under 19,000 miles and was pitched as being "nearly mint", but in reality, the car had body damage from an undisclosed accident, the clear coat was etched and there were many other flaws in the paint that made it necessary to repaint the entire car.

Pictures as I got it here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/095615.html

The underside of the hood and decklid had already been repainted when I had the necessary repairs done on them, so only the exterior bodywork and all doorjambs (edges) were to be painted. To assure the best paint coverage, I stripped the car of the moldings, mirrors, ground effects, gas filler etc. and transported these in a box to the shop.

Here's the car as it came off the trailer back from the paint shop.





It would take me another 2 weeks to put it back together, realigning fenders and several panels including the driver's door to get the gaps "just right". All the parts that were dismantled: the scoops, decklid side panels, mirrors, gas filler door, moldings and miscellenaous "small bits" were reassembled and reattached to the Indy with all new hardware.

The rear tail-lights had also been completely disassembled for cleanup and reconditioning, prior to reassembly and reinstallation on the car while it was away being painted.



As you can see, I repainted the car with all white moldings as on the Indy #1 Pace Car. With the door decals and red fader stripe, the black molding just seemed to become a "distraction". The white moldings give the car a cleaner look. A medium tint was applied to the door's window glass.

All new decals from Paul at www.fierosails.com were applied. I used the Dark Grey Pace Car door decals. The faded Pontiac Arrow emblems in the sail panels were replaced with NOS pieces from www.fierowarehouse.com .



I found a pair of NEW Wing Emblems for the front fenders. I just hadn't installed them yet when I took these pictures.



Paul also made the 3-color Pontiac Racing decal that is applied to the rear window and stands out sharply against the dark rear window tint and he worked with me to design the SD4 on the Indy Fiero decal on the rear decklid (it only looks crooked in the pictures).





Wing LED install here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000078.html

The engine is nicely framed by the white decklid side panels and scoops.





I'm still having issues with the fit of the molding around the new windshield and haven't applied the PONTIAC windshield decal yet for that reason.

It's been a lot of work and money

...but you know you've got something when you see an older couple in a Bentley convertible checking you out.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-23-2012).]

Santa Nic (santa_nic@shaw.ca) MSG #69, 11-28-2008 06:26 PM
      I recently came in the possetion of a 1986 Fiero GT fastback, had three at one time before that and I am ashamed to park any of mine in the same parking lot as either of Tony's cars. I am proud to know Tony and watch him do the quality work he does. You should see his Bike! It is stock, but looks like it came out the factory and was detailed after that. Thanks Tony...........

Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #70, 11-28-2008 10:21 PM
      I have been watching this thread with interest.
I saw Tony's other car (at the 20th) and if was flawless.

This one appears to be nothing less.

Bravo!



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #71, 11-29-2008 12:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

I have been watching this thread with interest. I saw Tony's other car (at the 20th) and if was flawless.

This one appears to be nothing less. Bravo!



Thank you. I can only imagine the work involved in those totally stripped "rotisserie" car restorations. Thankfully, I didn't have to go that far. But it still amazes me when I see an engine swap where the "new" engine went in the engine bay without any effort to clean either of them up first. A few cans of spray paint aren't that expensive!

I thought by outlining the steps taken in this build, I could show the results from going just the extra step of cleaning up the engine bay and painting everything that goes on the cradle before it goes back in the car. At the same time, it's easy to cleanup the wiring harnesses and make any changes necessary to hide them for a less cluttered look. Even small details like installing hose clamps so the adjuster is UNDER the hose out of sight (all you see is the stainless steel band) helps reduce clutter.

This bit of extra work can make anything look like a "new engine under the hood". It makes the difference between a mediocre job and something you can take to car shows.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-30-2008).]

KurtAKX MSG #72, 11-29-2008 10:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

where are the running/driving videos? You've got the same head, same compression, and almost exactly the same cam I'm going with, so I'm eager to hear it run.


bump.


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #73, 11-30-2008 12:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

where are the running/driving videos? You've got the same head, same compression, and almost exactly the same cam I'm going with, so I'm eager to hear it run.


Sorry. Don't have any, otherwise I'd have posted them.


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #74, 12-02-2008 08:46 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

I have been watching this thread with interest.
I saw Tony's other car (at the 20th) and if was flawless.

This one appears to be nothing less.



It may look good now, but based on what I had to start with, it would have cost A LOT LESS to start with a “good” Indy and get a brand new SD4 engine.

I would have looked for something like John’s (rarew66) Indy for $10,000
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/061948.html

and bought a complete new SD4 engine from Kansas Racing Products for $12,500
http://www.kansasracingprod....com/Price_List.html

I would have saved myself thousands of dollars....


Santa Nic (santa_nic@shaw.ca) MSG #75, 12-04-2008 01:39 AM
      I am glad you were able to spend the money to make this car right. It was worth the effort

30+mpg (wshaw@par1.net) MSG #76, 12-05-2008 08:10 PM
      Great thread about fixing problems. Now that you have most of the problems fixed, tell us a little bit about how it starts, runs, sounds drives, handles accelerates, makes you feel, etc.

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #77, 12-06-2008 12:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 30+mpg:

Great thread about fixing problems. Now that you have most of the problems fixed, tell us a little bit about how it starts, runs, sounds drives, handles accelerates, makes you feel, etc.


Still working making it run/drive as good as it looks. Not fully broken in, so don't ask for dyno or 1/4 mile times.

Starts OK, idles like crap, cruises good, WOT is terrible - falls on it's face. TERRIBLE mileage - you can watch the fuel gauge needle move as you drive. Loud as hell, handles like crap, and can't get ECM to control TCC properly. Makes me feel sick to over how much went into this, and often wish I never bought it - since it wasn't really what I THOUGHT I was getting. Thanks Chester.

I already HAVE solutions for all the problems and they WILL be solved. It's "small potatoes" compared to the work I've already done over 2 years, but WINTER has arrived and I can't really work on it very often now.

But I do have a Delco electronic cruise control setup working with the stock Fiero VSS using a Delco buffer/amplifier.
I'll post details on that next week (need to get pictures).

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 12-06-2008).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #78, 12-06-2008 05:24 PM
      This car is cursed!! Spark plug #3 has stripped the aluminum head!!

I used anti-seize and always clean the plug's threads and plug hole threads before reinstalling plugs. I am EXTREMELY careful, and use a small hose on the spark plug to run them to avoid cross threading. I then use a ratchet to seat them, and then use a torque wrench so as not to overtighten them. Absolutely not sure how in hell this happened!!

Anyway - now have to look at my options on how to fix this. A shop fixed a problem like this on my last van (previous owner cross threaded it) without pulling the head.

Has anyone used a repair kit that theogre mentioned here? http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...030204-2-026893.html

Repair video here http://www.timesert.com/html/howtosp.html

This isn't a "disaster" but it will be a royal pain in the you-know-what...

Update - 1 hour later - Have a kit in my hands already...

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 12-06-2008).]

BillS (wspohn4@aol.com) MSG #79, 12-06-2008 05:44 PM
      Ouch - stripping a thread is not nice.

You can install a helicoil, or berret yet a threaded insert, and you CAN try it with the haed on the car, collecting the swarf with a lump of grease on the tap but it always makes me nervous. Pulling the head is the best way, but if you don't, I suppose the softer alloy swarf is less likely to cause problems if it does go though than steel or iron. Good luck.


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #80, 12-06-2008 05:58 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BillS:

...collecting the swarf with a lump of grease on the tap but it always makes me nervous.



Good idea from theorge in the above thread. Light grease on the cutter with this method should do well.



30+mpg (wshaw@par1.net) MSG #81, 12-06-2008 10:26 PM
     
 
quote
fierosound:Still working making it run/drive as good as it looks. Not fully broken in, so don't ask for dyno or 1/4 mile times.

Starts OK, idles like crap, cruises good, WOT is terrible - falls on it's face. TERRIBLE mileage - you can watch the fuel gauge needle move as you drive. Loud as hell, handles like crap, and can't get ECM to control TCC properly. Makes me feel sick to over how much went into this, and often wish I never bought it - since it wasn't really what I THOUGHT I was getting. Thanks Chester...


Yeah, I'm beginning to understand how Chester came up with the name The Dirty Rat. If you want to see some of the problems I had with my 4t60 TCC, check http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/052684.html

[This message has been edited by 30+mpg (edited 12-06-2008).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #82, 12-08-2008 10:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

... The stock cruise control parts (vacuum canister, diaphram, solenoid etc) were removed and a less bulky Delco electronic cruise unit was installed below the air cleaner.



Still haven't fixed the head, but I thought I'd post this today...

I needed room to mount the air cleaner where the cruise control vacuum canister, solenoid etc were. So I switched to the much more compact Delco electronic cruise module used after 1996 on many GM cars.

Details of the electronic cruise installed on this SD4 Indy here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/090358-4.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 12-08-2008).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #83, 12-11-2008 04:19 PM
      As I said earlier, the Edelbrock AVS 500cfm is too damn big, and it's the smallest they make. Idle is not bad but could be better, part throttle driving is pretty good but WOT is terrible. The engine doesn't draw enough air to open the secondary air valve and pull the fuel properly.



Even though it's listed as a 500cfm, mechanically it looks identical to the 600cfm - the primary difference being the jet sizes. Specifically, we're looking at the throttle bores and venturi diameters. Smaller primaries and smaller secondaries are what's needed because at 3.3L displacement, the engine will only ever draw about 400cfm.



The Edelbrocks are a clone of the Carter Super-Quad AFB /AVS series of carburetors and are physically identical. Well, Carter DID make a 400cfm carb - the AFB 9400/9410 and it had smaller venturis and bores compared to the Edelbrock 500cfm. This makes it perfect for the 3.3L SD4.

Unfortunately, Carter hasn't made any for 20 years and since they were only made as a replacement carb for the GM 231 V6, they are very rare. A rebuilt one just sold on eBay 2 weeks earlier for $350 - darn!! And emailing all the carb rebuilders came up with nothing.

As luck would have it, I finally DID find a brand new, in the box Carter AFB 9410 400cfm from The Carb Shop. http://www.thecarburetorshop.com

It was likely the last and ONLY new one in existence and I paid dearly for it. It seems nothing is cheap with an SD4!



Unfortunately, it doesn't have the nice polished finish of the Edelbrock.

The smaller primary venturies would produce faster air velocity at idle and would greatly improve that function. And smaller secondaries are what's needed because at 3.3L displacement, the engine will only ever draw about 400cfm.



Here's a comparison of the throttle bores back-to-back (secondaries in middle).
The primary bores are the same, but the secondaries are very different.

Carter 1-7/16" 400cfm on Left - Right is 500cfm 1-11/16" Edelbrock


Here's a comparison of the venturies back-to-back (secondaries in middle).
The primary venturi on the 400 is slightly smaller, and the booster is a different shape.
But here again, the bigger difference is in the secondary's primary venturi size.

Carter 1-1/4" 400cfm on Left - Right is 500cfm 1-9/16" Edelbrock



Because the Carter and Edelbrock are physically identical, installation requires nothing more than swapping carbs. All the lines and throttle linkages connected as before without modification.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-30-2009).]

TennT (talgrav@usit.net) MSG #84, 12-11-2008 05:51 PM
      Weren't the booster venturis the main difference on the 500 cfm and the 600 Edelbrocks?
Holley used to make a 450 Economaster spreadbore, IIRC.
No matter, you got your carb.
tg


30+mpg (wshaw@par1.net) MSG #85, 12-11-2008 06:01 PM
     
 
quote
TennT:Weren't the booster venturis the main difference on the 500 cfm and the 600 Edelbrocks?...


Primaries, check
Secondaries, check

Booster venturis???


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #86, 12-11-2008 06:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 30+mpg:


Primaries, check
Secondaries, check

Booster venturis???


Secondary = Booster


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #87, 12-11-2008 07:42 PM
     

Holley 2-bbl carb, showing primary venturi (A), secondary venturi (B) and discharge tube (C). Secondary = Booster.

Yeah, I know. There's primary and secondary bores in the carb, then each bore has a venturi that has a primary and secondary component.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 12-15-2008).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #88, 12-11-2008 07:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TennT:

Weren't the booster venturis the main difference on the 500 cfm and the 600 Edelbrocks? Holley used to make a 450 Economaster spreadbore, IIRC.



I didn't physically compare venturis between the 500 and 600, but according to Edelbrock's chart they are the same diameter bores and venturis - perhaps a different shape venturi??

I'm pretty limited here. A Holley won't fit the engine bay, a spreadbore won't fit the manifold without an adapter which then makes it too tall below the decklid.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 12-11-2008).]

TennT (talgrav@usit.net) MSG #89, 12-15-2008 01:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 30+mpg:


Primaries, check
Secondaries, check

Booster venturis???


Old school. My ship is slowing (age).
Vernacular degeneration....
thanks for the clarification, guys.
tg


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #90, 01-13-2009 01:06 AM
      I've repaired the spark plug hole on Sunday and need 24 hours for the sealent on the insert to cure. Everything looks good and I will likely be starting the engine in the next day or two.

I used this kit. Worked great! Save-a-Thread http://www.thetoolwarehouse...hop/HEL-5334-14.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 01-19-2009).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #91, 01-19-2009 11:12 AM
      I have installed the 400cfm Carter 9410 Super-Quad 4-barrel carburetor (designed for GM 3.8L V6 engines). This replaces the Edelbrock 500cfm which was just too big for this 3.3L SD4 engine.

I installed a divider plate in the intake manifold. This will increase the vacuum signal to the carb by changing it from an “open plenum” to a “divided plenum” and should make low RMP throttle response crisper.



With the divider, you also require a base gasket with the divider down the center as well.



Here’s the carb installed. There’s no easy way to get a highly polished finish like the Edelbrocks (they have a 10 step process), so I painted the main body aluminum and the upper portion gloss black (basically the reverse of marine carbs). The paint will seal the pores of the aluminum so the carb won’t get stained from gas, oil and engine grime. It looks pretty good.



I have set the idle speed and mixtures and check and adjust the throttle response. The carb seems to be working well. I have a steady 1000rpm idle, seems smoother than before too. When blipping the throttle you can see the the secondary air valve open and fuel from the nozzles shooting in. I think this will be a BIG "night & day" improvement in driveability.

I think because the Edelbrock 500cfm was too big the secondaries never opened up properly AND it basically ran as a 2bbl that was too small at the upper RPM band and so the engine leaned out as the RPM went up. Shouldn't have that problem now.

I was able to get it out for a short test drive and it's quite driveable with the new Carter carb. It drove well and I could DEFINITELY feel this carbuetor WAS working much better than the Edelbrock, but I won't be able to fine tune for WOT performance and such until later once all the snow is gone.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-28-2009).]

85LAMB (linck777@netzero.com) MSG #92, 01-22-2009 01:46 PM
      WOW.....!!!

You have done a great job rebuilding the car.
Thanks for posting your build thread its very helpfull and inspirational, so that I get to work on my own car.
I wish I could give you another plus.

Keep up the great work and please continue to post



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #93, 02-11-2009 12:18 PM
      Thanks 85LAMB

I have it driveable and it feels pretty good with the new carb, but fine tuning can't be done until all the roads are clear and the weather is warmer a couple of months from now.

Official "Public Unveiling" of my Indy is coming up at World of Wheels Feb. 20-22 in Calgary. I'm curious/nervous about the response, but I know people/kids were waving (favorably, thumbs up, etc) when I drove down the street with the thing, so I think people will be "wow'd". I know virtually nobody has ever seen a Fiero Pace Car in this city, so I expect a lot of questions.

Our Club is putting in 6 cars in total, including a second all stock Indy next to mine, my 3.4L supercharged 87 GT, a blue 87 GT, burgandy 87 2M4 and red 85 GT.

Both B-J convertible prototypes are also expected to be there in a separate display. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...1/HTML/074154-2.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-11-2009).]

Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #94, 02-11-2009 12:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

I have installed the 400cfm Carter 9410 Super-Quad 4-barrel carburetor (designed for GM 3.8L V6 engines). This replaces the Edelbrock 500cfm which was just too big for this 3.3L SD4 engine.

I installed a divider plate in the intake manifold. This will increase the vacuum signal to the carb by changing it from an “open plenum” to a “divided plenum” and should make low RMP throttle response crisper.


[



Cut a little notch out of the divider plate to balance it


Kento (kento@triad.rr.com) MSG #95, 02-11-2009 12:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 85LAMB:

WOW.....!!!

You have done a great job rebuilding the car.
Thanks for posting your build thread its very helpfull and inspirational, so that I get to work on my own car.
I wish I could give you another plus.

Keep up the great work and please continue to post


How is your Kit progressing????



85LAMB (linck777@netzero.com) MSG #96, 02-11-2009 01:12 PM
      Kento
Check PM


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #97, 02-11-2009 01:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:

Cut a little notch out of the divider plate to balance it


Not necessary. The plate isn't completely to the ends or the bottom.



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #98, 02-17-2009 11:48 AM
      [

There's a head and a couple of these intakes on eBay. They'll fit a stock 2.5 Iron Duke engine.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-17-2009).]

KurtAKX MSG #99, 02-17-2009 05:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

There's a head and a couple of these intakes on eBay. They'll fit a stock 2.5 Iron Duke engine.


I am bidding on both of those intakes currently for my Super Duty head.

Three things though.

1) the intakes don't fit a stock head, only a super duty head.

2) The heads don't fit a stock block without machining. The heads are setup for 1/2" head studs, whereas stock Iron Duke studs are 11mm.

3) That head is pretty much at the end of its useable life. It has .170" machined off of it already. There's no more material left to do a clean up cut on the deck surface. Its milled so far one of the bolt holes is actually protruding into the deck surface now. Aluminum castings can be welded on (unlike iron), and there are even hard aluminum filler rods used specifically for repairing the deck surfaces of cylinder heads, but it would be in the neighborhood of $1500 worth of head work to restore some deck material.


From an email I received from the guy doing my SD head:
 
quote

".170 is huge the head you have is only cut .100
and as far as welding the deck yes it is possible if you have a huge pocket book and they don't make them or cant find them anymore. Not really an option.


Brad Beaubien
Roush Cylinder Head Dept."


h.d.fire (mmaver@comcast.net) MSG #100, 02-19-2009 05:31 PM
      Tony-
Beautifull car!
You've done an excellent job on this build, I hope to get the chance to see your Indy in person some day.



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #101, 02-20-2009 01:08 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by h.d.fire:

Tony-
Beautifull car!
You've done an excellent job on this build, I hope to get the chance to see your Indy in person some day.



Thank you very much. It's getting it's official "Public Unveiling" (since new paint) at World of Wheels this weekend.
I don't think anyone up here has ever seen an Indy, and we have TWO in this show!

EDIT: This was the first time I saw my Indy "complete" with NOS Indy Wing Emblems and
PONTIAC Windshield Decal (I installed them when setting up for the show)

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum7/HTML/000189.html



[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-16-2014).]

Gumby MSG #102, 02-24-2009 02:19 PM
      I saw it a the show. I met and chatted with Tony for a bit. I can tell you all it is an amazing car that needs to be seen. It is with out a doubt the nicest Fiero i have seen in person or in a magazine! The Fiero display looked good with the 6 cars there also. Thanks guys!!

SAFASTRO MSG #103, 03-03-2009 12:03 PM
      Seeing this car at the Calgary World of Wheels a few weeks ago really gave me a new perspective on the Indy!
I've never really took note of them before, but after chatting with Tony on the final day, I must say I am impressed. This car is very clean, and now that I have seen where this car started out......all I can say is WOW!!! Tony has done an incredible job, and definately knows his stuff.
Congrats on the car Tony......it's come a long way.



Boomtastic MSG #104, 03-03-2009 06:18 PM
      Awesome job and writeup! I was supposed pick this car up for Chester, but got into a wrecked by an idiot in CT and totalled my truck and trailer. It's great to see a happy ending to the story.



TEXASGT MSG #105, 03-05-2009 05:38 AM
      LOL I love this thread... What a great car and great story. I love this forum and I love the end result. To bad you were cheated by a "Dirty Rat' LOL but they get theirs in the end!!!


Great Job


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #106, 03-05-2009 11:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TEXASGT:

LOL I love this thread... What a great car and great story. I love this forum and I love the end result.



Thank you.

Once summer comes and this car has the carb setup and everything's working perfect, this car will be driven. Maybe not a daily driver to work, but definitely NOT a "trailer queen" reserved for weekend shows only. You get more looks and "thumbs up" driving this thing than anything else other than perhaps a Lambo or other high end exotic.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-05-2009).]

KurtAKX MSG #107, 03-06-2009 08:26 AM
      I still want to see/hear some video clips- idling, drive-aways, etc!!!!!!!!

canadiangtfiero86 (gtfiero86@msn.com) MSG #108, 04-03-2009 09:37 PM
      Yeah me to

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #109, 04-04-2009 12:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

I still want to see/hear some video clips- idling, drive-aways, etc!!!!!!!!


Still winter up here. Got 1 foot of snow last weekend.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 04-04-2009).]

KurtAKX MSG #110, 04-24-2009 05:35 PM
      Its 70-something here- snow gone yet? I wanna see (mostly hear) a video!

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #111, 04-24-2009 10:51 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

Its 70-something here- snow gone yet? I wanna see (mostly hear) a video!


Sorry. Don't have a video camera...



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #112, 05-26-2009 12:30 AM
      Make and post your own poster here http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/076072.html



[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-26-2009).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #113, 06-01-2009 11:44 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by N3M3S1S :

Super Duty 4 engine - w/ Edelbrock valve cover, Edelbrock 4-bbl intake and carb


How well does she haul ass, anyway? I've wondered that.



Hard to say. I've gotten "used to it" so it doesn't feel fast to me anymore. It feels about the same as my 3.4L supercharged engine, but that a manual, this is an auto. Others who've ridden with me say it's "damn fast".

Idles rough - with intake valves over 2", high lift cam and huge ports, this engine is made to REV. It doesn't sound like anything else. Hard to describe.

I changed to a smaller 400cfm Carter carb from the Edelbrock 500cfm (it was just too big). The Carter seems to be jetted pretty good now and the engine responds extremely well. It drives pretty good and doesn't feel like a 4-cylinder at all. Gets up to speed pretty quick, acceleration for passing is great (unlike a stock Duke which makes more noise, but doesn't "pull"). Terrible mileage in city (likely because I'm booting it all the time ) but seems much better on the highway. The smaller gas tank of the 84 is really noticeable.

The 3.73 4-speed auto feels really good. It stays in 3rd until almost 50mph before shifting into 4th for cruising. The TCC lockup helps as it drops the rpm by about 200. I think I could adjust the TV cable to have 4th come in sooner, but I think that would lug the engine. A 5-speed manual would have been more fun

With only about 1200 miles, it isn't quite broken in yet. At least not enough for me after spending those big $$$ rebuilding it. I want to get a few more miles on it before I switch to synthetic oil and that should help with power. I had it on a dyno last year with the 500cfm Edelbrock carb and it looked like 160hp at the wheels at that time, but I think the engine is making more power with the Carter carb now.

I don't think it will set any 1/4 mile speed records at the track, but I think people will still be blown away that it's "that fast with a 4-cylinder" and that it's a World of Wheels car at the track.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-18-2010).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #114, 09-15-2009 12:03 PM
      I decided to convert the Indy to a manual transmission. The automatic transmission in the Indy doesn't do justice with the SD4 engine. The engine really wants to rev and a Getrag 5-speed manual transmission would give me much better control of its power.

Have a Service Manual handy when you do this http://www.fieronews.net/fusion/downloads.php

If you just bought your $500 Fiero and wished it were a manual, you'd be better off selling it and buying another with the manual transmission. But if you already have a lot of work and money into your car, IT IS WORTH making the swap. There is a tedious amount of work involved, but it is mostly the "remove and replace" variety.

Converting to a manual requires all these parts from your donor.
tranny
axles
shifter assembly
2 shifting cables
clutch pedal assembly
hydraulic clutch line
master cylinder
slave cylinder
flywheel
clutch set <---- buy new - no reason using a worn one
Plastic frame with boot to cover shifter assembly

Having the appropriate Factory Service Manual is VERY helpful.
The 1986 one is complete http://www.fieronews.net/fusion/downloads.php

Dropping the cradle and swapping the transmissions and axles is basically staightforward, so I'm not going to cover that in detail here.

Of course, you need to change the flexplate to the correct flywheel for your engine (pre-88 or 88 V6, or 4-cylinder) and install your clutch set.



The hydraulic system is tedious to install. You should pull the front spare wheel tub and gut the interior (at least the driver's seat, upper steering column, and center console including "plastic skeleton"). I pulled the cluster and dash as well to see better.

The automatic pedal box is held in by the 4 bolts that hold the brake booster (plus one under the dash). The manual pedal box with the clutch will in addition have the two studs for the clutch master cylinder. The firewall will have a sheet metal plug that can be popped out for installing the master.

Remove the automatic transmission cooling lines and install the clutch line in it's place. It bolts in using the same bolts into the same locations. Maneouvering the line into place past the steering column and brake booster can be done more easily while the brake booster is unbolted from the firewall.

The clutch slave will attach to the transmission using its normal bracketry.



With the "plastic skeleton" out of the center console, it's a simple matter to remove the park/lock cable from the shifter to the steering column. I left the steering column as is and didn't bother with modifying it to add the key latch.



You can now easily remove the automatic shifter and shift cable and install the manual shifter with shift and select cables.

I installed a Getrag 5-speed. This is the revised cable routing for this transmission http://www.meisners.net/fiero/TSB/TSB88714.htm

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-03-2012).]

InTheLead MSG #115, 09-19-2009 02:21 AM
      Absolutely gorgeous rebuild. Best build in this forum in my opinion.

+ for the work this is quality.


wiccantoy (cwandall@yahoo.com) MSG #116, 09-27-2009 03:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by The_Stickman2:

I am SOOO jealous.


oh stop that man you have one hell of a sexy car also



Hulki U. My-BFF (adweigle@hughes.net) MSG #117, 09-29-2009 04:22 PM
      fierosound, absolutely beautiful work on that Indy. Your close attention to detail and your desire are what truly makes this car the best and cleanest I have ever seen. THIS is what a true restoration looks like. No detail uncovered. + from me.

Andy


Sourmug MSG #118, 09-29-2009 07:12 PM
      Hopefully you guys get to see it in person some day, pictures don't do it justice.

Nolan


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #119, 09-30-2009 11:11 AM
     
THANKS GUYS!


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #120, 09-30-2009 12:24 PM
      The transmission swap is done!!

Guys with Dukes - if you need a new flywheel and flywheel bolts - start looking early. There may be some searching/waiting for parts involved. It seems Dukes were mated to manual transmissions only in Fiero, Chev S10/S15 and Jeep CJ/YJ - all other Pontiac/Buick/Olds were predominately equipped with automatic transmissions.

Stock flywheels are discontinued by GM, but Sachs makes them http://www.autopartswarehou...bal&N=0&Ntt=flywheel

The big "wait time" was getting the V6 Fidanza aluminum flywheel welded and redrilled for the SD4 crank (Duke pattern). Mostly time sitting on the shelf "waiting for my turn" because it didn't take long once they got to it.

The SD4 crank was also "pinned" in it's previous life as a race engine. In addition to the 6 flywheels bolts, 3 steel pins are embedded in the crank and line up with holes in the flywheel. These take the shear loads off of the flywheel bolts.



After the original holes were welded up, and both faces machined, 9 holes were drilled in the flywheel to match the crank's face (used old flexplate as template). Center hole is also larger than on a V6 and was machined to match the crank.

Stock flywheel bolts have huge low height hex heads (M10 x 1.5 x 23mm) and couldn't be found locally. I purchased ARP flange head bolts PN 134-2201 instead. These are 25mm long and need to be cut down in length to 23mm as they bottom out in the crankshaft holes otherwise. The flywheel bolt holes were countersunk for the flange on the head and work much better.



The Spec Stage 2 clutch pack was then attached. Blue Locktite is a necessity on the flywheel and pressure plate bolts (just to be safe)



Wiring harness changes from removal of transmission gear selector switch were fairly straightforward. (these are all over PFF)
- shorten wires for VSS
- install a new connector for backup light switch
- power wire bypass to firewall connector



The rest of the assembly is straightforward. Bolt on the transmission, put the engine/tranny back on the cradle and install the drive axles. I forgot to take a picture of it all on the cradle. DOH!!

I installed a rebuild kit in the clutch master cylinder - Wagner PN F110274. In addition, I cut the pushrod and threaded it for a 5/16" thread long nut and locknuts to make it adjustable.



The rest of the install is unexciting. Here's the clutch master cylinder in the car.



The select/shifter cables clear everything resonably well. The bracket for the shifter cable sits fairly high, but a new coolant hose has a long enough end to clear it. The slave cylinder is more easily accessible than in V6 applications - no exhaust crossover in the way!



I now have 3 pedals were I only had a brake and gas pedal before. Wiring in the clutch and cruise switches was VERY simple.



... and I installed an 84 short shifter and Getrag 5-speed shifter surround.



I changed all my bezels to brushed silver ones - to match the gauges and shifter plate.
(STILL looking for a silver manual shifter surround in MINT condition)

I got a recovered leather shift knob from mmeyer86gt/gtp (excellent value!!)
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/047955.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 07-07-2011).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #121, 09-30-2009 12:52 PM
      How's it drive??? What a difference!

It even SOUNDS like a "race engine" now. Not because I'm winding it up to redline before shifting - because I'm not (always ) - but I am shifting at a slightly higher rpm than the automatic transmission would. Better control, feels faster too.

Much more FUN to drive now too!! Well worth the work to make the switch.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-30-2009).]

Sourmug MSG #122, 09-30-2009 02:10 PM
      I'm glad you're enjoying the car more now and happy that my parts went to someone who could put them to good use.

Nolan


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #123, 10-04-2009 02:38 PM
      Got the Getrag 5-speed swap finished on on Saturday - went to Car Show NEXT day, Sunday (Sept. 27 2009)
Beautiful fall day, great show. The car drove great!



Today, a week later (Oct. 4), it's cold (just above freezing) with wet snow. Summer's over!

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-03-2012).]

johnyrottin (johnharbour@hotmail.com) MSG #124, 10-19-2009 10:47 PM
      That is not your Indy on ebay is it???

doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #125, 10-20-2009 11:25 AM
      Definitely post a video of how it sounds!



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #126, 10-20-2009 12:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by johnyrottin:

That is not your Indy on ebay is it???


Nope.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 10-20-2009).]

johnyrottin (johnharbour@hotmail.com) MSG #127, 10-20-2009 04:59 PM
      No, there is an SD 4 cyl on there that is partially done. I emailed the owner in Bath NY. Her husband has passed and she is selling. I would like to try and get it and finish it for her. A way for her to maintain touch with him...sounds sappy but I would lke to.

[This message has been edited by johnyrottin (edited 10-23-2009).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #128, 10-20-2009 05:09 PM
      ...

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 12-14-2009).]

johnyrottin (johnharbour@hotmail.com) MSG #129, 10-20-2009 09:12 PM
      I actually love yours...that is why when I saw this one so close (Bath NY) I kind of did a double take. Read my PM to you. I also looked at the engine setup, since that's the only pictures, and yours is slightly different (to me as a layman) but probably hugely different in truth. Her husband was in the process and died of cancer.

[This message has been edited by johnyrottin (edited 10-23-2009).]

mtjd25 (mattkittle@yahoo.com) MSG #130, 10-26-2009 06:44 PM
      that is an absolutely beautiful car, excellent job on it!

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #131, 10-26-2009 09:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mtjd25:

that is an absolutely beautiful car, excellent job on it!


Thanks very much. It's been a long, expensive road.



Lilchief MSG #132, 11-01-2009 10:43 PM
      Tony: Since your the only person that I know of that has had a 4T60 mated to a 4 cylinder, how do you think it would work with a stock (slightly modded) 2.5 as compared to a TH125? And would you stick with the 3.73 gear or change it ?
Thanks Rick



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #133, 11-02-2009 01:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Lilchief:

Since your the only person that I know of that has had a 4T60 mated to a 4 cylinder, how do you think it would work with a stock (slightly modded) 2.5 as compared to a TH125? And would you stick with the 3.73 gear or change it ?



Please keep in mind that I am NOT running with only 92hp. That being said, the stock TH125 has a 3.18 final drive, so the 4T60's 3.73 (33/37 gears) should "feel" pretty good off the line with a Duke.

It's almost as low as the 4.10 "performance" 4-speed manual some Duke's had. Also the OD 4th gear is about equal to the 5th gear Duke's had with the Isuzu 5-speed manual. So it appears you have almost the "best of both" - the low 1st gear of the 4.10 4-speed, and the OD 5th of the 5-speed. With this gear ratio the 4T60 shifts into 4th at about 50mph.

I also have a set of 3.33 (35/35 gears) and 2.97 (37/33 gears). I DID have the 3.33 ratio (35/35) gearing initially, but wanted more punch off the line. You also never got into 4th gear until about 60mph, so I pulled the tranny and changed the gears for the 3.73 ratio (33/37 gears).

With the tranmission swap now done, I noticed that engine RPM at 60mph in 5th gear with the Getrag 5-speed is about the same as OD 4th with the 4T60 with 15" wheels/tires.

More on gearsets http://www.spacecoastfieros.com/tech/440-4T60/

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 01-21-2010).]

SuperchargedV6 (rborecky@roadrunner.com) MSG #134, 11-13-2009 08:43 PM
      Did I ever tell you that your car was driven by Bob Paxton at Indy during the race month? The best I can find is tha the was involved with College Basketball and I think he passed away September 2008 Rick B



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #135, 01-04-2010 12:29 PM
      I had noticed it was difficult to keep a high polish on the aluminum valve cover etc.
They also has a tendency for water spots anytime water splashed on them.




So I got my aluminum parts chrome plated. Please excuse the glare/reflections
Not cheap to do - but well worth it (and will look good forever).

Safastro made some vinyl letter cutouts for me to stick in the bottom of the letters.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/045657.html



[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-05-2011).]

FieroMonkey (piccolo@cox.net) MSG #136, 01-04-2010 01:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

I had noticed it was difficult to keep a high polish on the aluminum valve cover etc.
They also has a tendency for water spots anytime water splashed on them.

So I got my aluminum parts chrome plated. Please excuse the glare/reflections
Not cheap to do - but well worth it (and will look good forever).

Safastro made some vinyl letter cutouts for me to stick in the bottom of the letters.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/045657.html




Holy crap! Stunning.

This car should be in a magazine, with a nice article.

Seriously, you have a gorgeous beast of an Indy.

[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 01-04-2010).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #137, 01-05-2010 01:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMonkey:

Holy crap! Stunning.



Thank you very much

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 01-05-2010).]

kwagner MSG #138, 01-06-2010 09:20 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

Please excuse the glare/reflections


No need to excuse, that looks fantastic!


madcurl (madcurl@fiero-performance.com) MSG #139, 01-06-2010 05:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:







Sweet! I love the chrome job and painting of the PONTIAC red insert lettering.



NCTyphoonKid (cdahr@triad.rr.com) MSG #140, 01-06-2010 09:36 PM
      you have a gorgeous Indy great work! I like the red lettering for the PONTIAC insert also



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #141, 01-07-2010 01:03 PM
      Thanks guys

Steven_Kreg (stevenkreg@yahoo.com) MSG #142, 02-03-2010 03:34 PM
     
Disgustingly beautiful.

Watch for my "build" thread coming soon...

The poor starving writers know nothing ghetto "build" thread.


johnyrottin (johnharbour@hotmail.com) MSG #143, 02-12-2010 09:07 PM
      Updates?!

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #144, 02-13-2010 03:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by johnyrottin:

Updates?!




Ummm... Car is finished. Car's been in hibernation because it's the middle of winter snows up here.



fieroguy123 (fieroguy1@yahoo.com) MSG #145, 02-14-2010 09:32 PM
      Gotta say, getting the intake and valve cover chromed made all the difference in the world! that looks fantastic!

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #146, 02-15-2010 12:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguy123:

Gotta say, getting the intake and valve cover chromed made all the difference in the world! that looks fantastic!



Thanks. I still have to find a nice chrome wing nut for the carb bonnet.


2fiero2 (seangwynn@bellsouth.net) MSG #147, 02-15-2010 08:27 PM
      Just a thought for the wingnut. Possibly have one made in the shape of the Pontiac Arrowhead Emblem .

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #148, 06-02-2010 04:41 PM
      We're all still waiting for beautiful sounds in the video we were promised on the last page..





pontiacjeff (tech@engineered.net) MSG #149, 07-06-2010 04:50 PM
      And we all want dyno numbers!!!!! The 160 was way off. It should be making over 200whp I would think. if you want a good tuner, call this guy in Atlanta, Jeff @ Engineered Performance


tbone42 MSG #150, 07-30-2010 12:46 PM
      Where can I get one of those wonderful valve covers for my duke? Heck, where do I get a super duty period? I would love to keep my car a 4 cyl... this is the most perfect build thread.

[This message has been edited by tbone42 (edited 07-30-2010).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #151, 07-31-2010 10:08 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by tbone42:

Where can I get one of those wonderful valve covers for my duke? Heck, where do I get a super duty period? I would love to keep my car a 4 cyl... this is the most perfect build thread.



Thanks The valve covers show up on eBay once in a while.

Look in the Mall? http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/052355.html
Summit Racing http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-10031327
MonsterPartsOnline has them for $171.12 Search for part no. 10031327

Start saving for an engine http://www.kansasracingprod...roducts/Welcome.html
A ready to run 16-valve SD4 http://www.race-cars.com/en...331/1107211331ss.htm

OR find car with SD4 engine http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/052380.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 07-31-2010).]

tbone42 MSG #152, 07-31-2010 05:31 PM
      Thanks for the info.. the car looked like the best option, just way out of my price range right now. If you ever get squirlly and want to sell that car, you should contact me.. you never know.
I have been giving serious consideration to a V8 conversion until I saw your thread, I am inspired. I would love to ride in that beast some time.


tbone42 MSG #153, 09-08-2010 11:42 AM
      Fierosound.. you have a PM!

DeLorean00 (twincam18@aol.com) MSG #154, 04-03-2011 12:32 AM
      I just wanted to bump this thread and say that you have an amazing Indy!! I am restoring a Indy myself currently. And yours gives me motivation, but you also set the bar to damn high. LoL

Xyster MSG #155, 04-05-2011 11:05 AM
      Truly amazing car and thread. Thanks for all the information and quality pics.

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #156, 04-09-2011 01:26 PM
      Thanks guys. Have a new Tri-Y header coming from whodeanie soon.

Pics here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/075728-18.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 04-09-2011).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #157, 04-16-2011 10:43 AM
      Got a picture from PFF member AADrcw of the Indy plates he's collected.
Besides the original plate #163 for my Indy, he has #162 and #164 as well.

Some other pics AADrcw has: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/080747.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 04-16-2011).]

Pontiac_Dude1983 (supertrick_05@yahoo.com) MSG #158, 05-02-2011 08:42 PM
      This car is absolutely amazing! Congrats brother!

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #159, 06-28-2011 01:05 AM
      Thanks Dude. Pretty sure it's close to being a 9.5 out of 10 now...


This Indy is that car that "just keeps on giving..." ... GRIEF!

Have to replace the A/C evaporator core - but new ones no longer exist - discontinued/obsolete.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 07-21-2011).]

tbone42 MSG #160, 08-01-2011 08:03 PM
      Congrats on the TFS Calendar this month, man! It looks GREAT in my office!


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #161, 08-02-2011 09:28 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by tbone42:

Congrats on the TFS Calendar this month, man! It looks GREAT in my office!


Thank you, thank you (taking humble bows)

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-02-2011).]

852m4se MSG #162, 10-02-2011 09:54 AM
      looks amazing. good work

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #163, 01-25-2012 08:01 PM
      <bump>

DarcyJL (pontiacdh@hotmail.com) MSG #164, 02-27-2012 05:04 PM
      Hello fierosound, your car looks amazing, i just wanted to say, once the cold/snow moves off the prairies, which has been surprisingly little in Sk, i think we are all dying for a video of it running, or atleast a sound clip of the exhaust tune, i know i am atleast. It will help me get through the cost of my SD4 build, because you of all people know what i mean. Anyways i was just wondering if your using a SuperDuty water pump or a Duke water pump, and which alternator you are using. I am leaning towards proform hei, but still considering a kinsler fuel inj. set-up with a sprint magneto or other.

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #165, 02-27-2012 05:12 PM
      Regular Duke water pump works fine. I switched to a CS130 alternator.

DarcyJL (pontiacdh@hotmail.com) MSG #166, 02-27-2012 06:29 PM
      typo lol, i meant distributor. Is yours a proform with a msd cap?

DarcyJL (pontiacdh@hotmail.com) MSG #167, 03-01-2012 01:51 PM
      So what is the chance you still have the weber setup that came on your SD4 and want to sell it.??
I would drive the 5 hours just to pick it up.


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #168, 03-01-2012 07:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DarcyJL:

So what is the chance you still have the weber setup that came on your SD4 and want to sell it.??
I would drive the 5 hours just to pick it up.


Weber setup was sold on eBay years ago.

Proform disributors come with a red cap. The thing is BIG and a pain to do anything to it with engine in car.
I don't think MSD has caps for 4-cyl, but you could get 8-cyl HEI cap and knock 4 posts out.
If I were "doing over", I'd use Small HEI external coil distributor from carb'd Duke Jeep engine.

As I've said before, all my SD4 "parts" are on my car and have no SD4 stuff laying around.

Just a Tilton starter. Once I got a new header, I had clearance issues with solenoid and switched to a factory 3800 one.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-24-2012).]

Donster MSG #169, 03-24-2012 12:28 PM
      Best build thread I have seen on this forum. Period.

\D


INKUBUS (iran.montane@avery.com) MSG #170, 04-01-2012 06:09 PM
      you cut the tube of shifter ?

[This message has been edited by INKUBUS (edited 04-01-2012).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #171, 04-02-2012 08:35 PM
      Thanks Donster

 
quote
Originally posted by INKUBUS:

you cut the tube of shifter ?



Yup. Someone posted a How To here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...060206-1-049269.html



Luke (lukehanus@yahoo.com) MSG #172, 04-04-2012 10:51 AM
      Car looks great, and here I thought Mister was OCD, no wonder he had a gleam in his eye when he first mentioned your Indy a few years ago. You did beautiful work to it.

Question: How did all the paint on all the engine and suspension parts hold up? When I restored my first 86 I did powdercoating, POR 15, and tremclad (all after sandblasting the parts) and drove my car in everything but snow and salt. I found some of the results slightly dissapointing after a while compared to the reputation POR 15 and powdercoating sometimes get.


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #173, 04-06-2012 04:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Luke:

Question: How did all the paint on all the engine and suspension parts hold up? When I restored my first 86 I did powdercoating, POR 15, and tremclad (all after sandblasting the parts) and drove my car in everything but snow and salt. I found some of the results slightly dissapointing after a while compared to the reputation POR 15 and powdercoating sometimes get.


Tremclad on the cradle/supension parts seems to be holding up very well.
Also used Duplicolor Caliper Paints on engine parts with good success. Like this stuff!

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 04-06-2012).]

84candyorangeduke (jsun77@me.com) MSG #174, 04-08-2012 09:54 PM
      Ab-SO-lutely po-SO-tively by far the best close to stock Fiero I have ever seen PERIOD!! Just read the whole thread.. 2 hrs later I am trying to clean the drool of of my keyboard. I am a duke fan and someday after my children grow up lol I will have an SD until then I will keep being the idiot who dumps $$ here and there on trying to get my 96 h.p. go-cart motor to put out 1/2 a h.p. at a time! It is the little engine that could...........not lmao. Great thread sweet friggen ride and keep up the amazing meticulous work you are an artist!!



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #175, 04-09-2012 10:56 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 84candyorangeduke:

Ab-SO-lutely po-SO-tively by far the best close to stock Fiero I have ever seen PERIOD!!



Thank you.

If you look at the posting dates of the thread, it looks like I did it all in one month (Nov. 2008) NOT!!

TWO YEARS of hard work and $$$ starting September 2006.
Finished and repainted in Sept. 2008 and started this thread afterward.

My first post Sept. 3 2006 http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-2-076520.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-03-2012).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #176, 06-03-2012 11:33 AM
     

Leaves are starting to drop. Fall is coming...

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-14-2012).]

Celthora87GT (backstrokerj@yahoo.com) MSG #177, 10-05-2012 09:57 PM
      just skimmed this and holy crap what a car.... AMAZING WORK!

Quad GT (quadgti@gmail.com ) MSG #178, 10-06-2012 11:31 AM
      Now that she is all done

Wanna sell her? Lol


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #179, 10-06-2012 12:35 PM
      Celthora87GT – THANK YOU.

Quad GT – Phone me when you win the Lottery.


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #180, 12-02-2012 10:19 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMaster88:

I really love this build. I hope my Indy will be that nice someday.



Quad GT (quadgti@gmail.com ) MSG #181, 12-02-2012 12:23 PM
      Im in Michigan and just got a POWERBALL lottery ticket, wont be long now before I call you

I also want a dozen Tim Horton Boston cream donuts with it


FieroMaster88 (fast88fiero@yahoo.com) MSG #182, 02-22-2013 10:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


Thank you! Just find yourself a BIG (more than I expected) bucket of money.



Well I found some and have purchased a Super Duty block, parts and head. Any advice on building the engine or a good carb to use? I have a double barrel edelbrock intake or I could pick up a set of Weber carbs...I don't know which way to go. Oh, and I want to swap mine to a Getrag 5 speed also.

Sent you a PM.

[This message has been edited by FieroMaster88 (edited 02-22-2013).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #183, 02-27-2013 07:08 PM
      Webers don't fit the engine bay all that well and you'll be sucking hot air.
What this car came with didn't really impress me.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-27-2013).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #184, 05-12-2013 12:37 PM
      Updates to the exhaust system.

This Indy originally came with this Hooker 4-tube race header that would not clear the Tilton starter solenoid.
On this style it hits the primary pipe from cylinder #4. Solenoid of stock starter just tucks behind.
This header also hangs below the cradle low enough that you can't install a rear anti-sway bar.



I originally reworked the header to "shorty" style to clear the solenoid and ran without a catalytic convertor.
You can see where the solenoid kicks out here.



The exhaust was damn loud so I need to get a cat. convertor or resonator into the system.
In addition, a Duke header DOESN'T really match the SD4 head's exhaust ports (see below).

The Hooker Tri-Y header style has better scavenging and routes like the stock system for a cat. convertor.
Whodeanie built me a header like this to match my SD4 head. Again, it clears the stock starter, but not the Tilton.

I installed a newer OEM 3800 compact starter which is a tight fit but just clears and wrapped a starter blanket around it.
(not my engine, just using photo to show Tri-Y style header and stock starter solenoid location)

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-15-2013).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #185, 05-12-2013 12:42 PM
      The SD4 head's exhaust ports are quite different from the stock Iron Duke head.

Header gaskets - there are two listed for the 2.5L (sometimes).

Here's a pic of the exhaust ports on my SD4 aluminum cylinder head GM PN 10038433
Fel-Pro SD4 header gasket PN FPP-1441 is what matches the ports.



Here's a comparison of the difference in exhaust gaskets.
The top one matches my SD4 head's exhaust ports, the lower is a stock Duke gasket.



While it will bolt on, a header built for the Iron Duke head partially blocks the SD4's exhaust port.
You can see how by how much when the SD4 gasket is matched to the Duke gasket underneath.
The already smaller SD4 exhaust port has it's flow blocked by a fair bit.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-15-2013).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #186, 05-12-2013 12:47 PM
      Whodeanie (before Fiero business problems started) built me a header with flanges to match the SD4 head and gasket.

Unfortunately, it's was still sized for the Duke engine and had only 2" pipe for the system after the header.
Keep in mind, the SD4 head flows 80% MORE air out of the box than a stock Duke header.
It became apparent that I really needed 2-1/2" pipe as the 2" may have been choking the system.

We reworked the header and it is now 2-1/2" from the Y-pipe from O2 sensor back.
Newly ceramic coated here. Looks kok-eyed, but cat. convertor sits level under the car.





It's hard to see the thing installed in the engine bay.




I haven't had a chance to drive it much. Dealing with replacing the clutch in the GT right now.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-12-2013).]

Lilchief MSG #187, 05-12-2013 04:09 PM
      What size primaries did you use ? I'm going to have to have mine custom made also.



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #188, 05-12-2013 06:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Lilchief:

What size primaries did you use ? I'm going to have to have mine custom made also.



Best I can measure, it looks like 1-1/2" OD tubing was used for the primaries.

By comparison, the long 4-tube race header had massive 1-3/4" primaries.


Lilchief MSG #189, 05-13-2013 01:18 AM
      Have you been able to tell any differene between the two.

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #190, 05-13-2013 08:48 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Lilchief:

Have you been able to tell any differene between the two.


Can't really make any comparisons. Never ran the car with the long tube header. Never did any 1/4 mile/times etc.
Right now, will have to check setting of carb secondaries (not opening properly) so engine not pulling as hard as it should.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-22-2013).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #191, 06-13-2013 09:31 AM
      Arghhh! I got an exhaust leak between header/head on cylinder #1. It sounds like a VW beetle engine.

Having 2 Fieros just means BOTH can be broken at the same time (replacing GT's clutch right now)

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-13-2013).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #192, 06-23-2013 09:51 AM
      Worked on fixing the header leak. In the past I had used Ultra Copper with success - but this time it didn't hold and blew out in the "thin" areas.



This header was a copy of the Hooker header made for the Duke, but with alterations to match the ports on the SD4 head.
You can see in posts above in matching the gaskets how much difference there is in the port size and locations.
The SD4 ports are smaller and higher up toward the top mounting bolts.

Unfortunately, the header builder did not increase the size of the outer flange, so there is only about 1/8" to seal the header against the head.
These are the problem areas.





I've reinstalled the header with a gasket AND a thin smear of Ultra Copper. Hopefully that will do the trick.
Haven't started it yet - exhaust is off to solve a problem of pipe banging on cradle.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-20-2013).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #193, 06-23-2013 10:12 AM
      I installed a new stainless steel hydraulic clutch line purchased from Fiero Store.

To get the old clutch line out intact OR to install a factory clutch line, unbolting the steering rack
and separating it from the column makes it MUCH easier to get the clutch line out.
If you're throwing it away, just cut the line apart.



Once you have the old line on the floor, you'll need to straighten out the shipping bends of the new SS line
and make any other adjustments as necessary to match the factory hydraulic line.

You'll also need to transfer the brackets from the old line to the new line as the line will reinstall in all the original locations.



The new SS line has fittings on both sides of the braided flex hoses. This is very useful at the front end,
because you can separate the section of line that connects to the master cylinder and get that into place by itself.



Once that's in place, its easy to get the main section in place and connect the two at the flex connector. Reinstall the steering rack.





Again, at the slave cylinder end, there's fittings on either end of the braided flex connection.
It should not be necessary to separate these when installing, but at least you could if you needed to.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 04-05-2015).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #194, 01-01-2014 08:38 PM
      Interesting video on the SD4 engine in the Camel Lite racing series.



Josh52894 (josh52894@gmail.com) MSG #195, 01-09-2014 10:17 PM
      I remember reading through this thread when I had fieros but wasn't a member, I just read the entire thing again. you really inspire me to do quality work rather than just bolting in a 350. when im done with school and I start making decent money I have tons of ideas. great thread and beautiful car.

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #196, 01-12-2014 09:21 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Josh52894:

I remember reading through this thread when I had fieros but wasn't a member, I just read the entire thing again. you really inspire me to do quality work rather than just bolting in a 350. when im done with school and I start making decent money I have tons of ideas. great thread and beautiful car.


If you think about it, it's about the same amount of work to do it right vs half-assed.

At cars shows you can see the difference between workmanship (good) and craftsmanship (better).



Josh52894 (josh52894@gmail.com) MSG #197, 01-14-2014 11:02 AM
      some day I will build a super duty indy, between you and "the turbo super duty build" and all of my other research on the s10 forums and such. this is something I really want to do. I don't mean to copy you but it just wouldn't seems right putting a super duty in anything else. that's in the future though,

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #198, 08-03-2014 12:37 PM
      As many of you remember, this SD4 engine originally ran dual Weber side-draft carbs in race trim before being transplanted into the Indy
(but was never run in the car - final installation work was never completed by previous owners).

When I got the car, the engine was rebuilt and detuned (C.R. was 13.5:1 - now 10.5:1 and other stuff) and we went with a 4-bbl carb on Edelbrock 4-bbl manifold. I never could get it working quite right. Transitions from cruise to WOT always had a bog in there we couldn't tune out. Cold starts were OK, but you couldn't drive until it warmed up a bit and it also got horrible gas mileage.

I installed a FAST EZ-EFI - a "self tuning" fuel only system designed to replace a 4-bbl carb (you retain your weights/springs/vacuum distributor for ignition). While the hardware seemed to work great, the "self-tuning" fell flat on its face with this engine. It definitely did not live up to expectations in the long run. It was over-fueling the engine for some reason.

I wasted the entire LAST summer following up the diagnosis from FAST's technicians:

1. must be installed wrong
2. must have an exhaust leak
3. there's something wrong with the engine
4. must be "interference" (your car is haunted)

After eliminating all possible problems and an ocilloscope diagnosis of all signals came up clean,
the conclusion was I had a case of "there's nothing wrong - but it just won't work right".
Whole story here: http://www.cpgnation.com/fo...day-not-today.22587/

I gave up on their "self tuning" ECU and went the DIY route.
I kept only the FAST EZ-EFI 2-injector throttle body and built a new factory style wiring harness to connect it to a Delco 1227165 ECM.
I have the secondary throttle plates disconnected and running as a 2-throat TBI.





To run it, I installed a 8192 baud Delco 1227165 ECM with an NVRAM module from pcmhackers.net to run the car running a hacked $12P BIN.
See here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119333.html

This slick combination gives you the ability to Flash BINs, Real-Time Emulation (run directly off the laptop making as-you-drive changes) and record Datalogs of all engine parameters for later playback/review directly through the ALDL port.
I also added a WideBand O2, knock sensor and switched back to an ECM controlled distributor/ignition system (85/86 Duke) on the engine.





I started with a modded $12P BIN for Camaro 350 TPI w/SD - changed parameters to 4-cylinders and fuel to suit the 2-injector setup.
It started on the second crank - and ran not bad! Proof of concept confirmed!

I was able to put this together, but the TunerPro RT learning curve is like a steep vertical cliff for me.
Right now I'm working with Dave at Old School EFI in Vancouver Washington (a TunerPro expert) to get this working right.

We have a ways to go, but so far it's getting better with every BIN I flash to the ECM

A great EFI / Tuning Forum http://www.gearhead-efi.com...-Injection/forum.php

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-15-2014).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #199, 09-27-2014 01:09 PM
      I've been fighting ongoing steering issues on my Indy since I got it. I'm totally gobsmacked that I had any steering issues at all since the car only had 18,000 something original miles on. BUT it had a rattle due to a worn passenger side bushing that I replaced along with both the inner and outer tie-rod ends. Better, but not great.

I gave up and got a rebuilt Cardone rack, figuring I screwed something up. Not any better with that either!!

But I had problems with a "rebuilt" rack I got for my GT last year
(they just cleaned it up and replaced the boots - not the worn out inner tie-rod ends)
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/128897-2.html
That POS rack came from CarSteering.com

Lately, the steering was getting loose and sloppy.
Even adjustment of the pinion preload didn't help with the center looseness.
I was looking to dig into this annoying problem and fix it once and for all.

But I was stumped! The intermediate shaft is good, solid, and tight as well as the U-joints.
I put vice-grips in the bottom shaft of the steering column to check for looseness in the column itself. Seemed good.
All the tie-rod ends on the rack seemed tight and checking the rack's pinion with a wrench seemed OK. At first.

I had to recheck everything AGAIN. The problem finally surfaced when I cranked the rack from end to end.
I was working the pinion with a wrench and found it moves in and out about a 1/2 inch!
That would be the "slop" I was feeling as the pinion rode up and down the rack's teeth.
I haven't taken it apart, but I'd say this "rebuilt" Cardone rack is missing (or broke) the snap ring that holds the pinion gear bearing down.



The parts car rack I bought was tight in the rack/pinion, so I rebuilt it by replacing the passenger side bushing and inner/outer tie-rod ends.
I also had new MOOG rubber bushings installed in the front upper and lower control arms. BIG improvement.
So I also installed the coil-over kit I got last year for the car.

I got this kit from http://arrautmotorsports.co...pension-information/



These are 275# 12" long springs and require that the strut's spring perches be cut off.



After clean up and some paint, it's time to assemble the coil-overs.



They look pretty good installed on the car. Adjustment is needed after seeing how it sits on the ground.



Got an alignment yesterday and FINALLY the car rides and handles properly.

The rack I took off the car is on a shelf right now. If all it needs is the snap ring, it should be useable in the future.

Once you get a suspension together, there are still ways to fine tune the understeer/oversteer handling.
The easiest is to adjust tire pressures (2lbs at a time) to achieve the desired change.
You can also make the sway bars "stiffer/softer" by changing the bushings (poly=stiffer, rubber=softer).

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-04-2016).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #200, 10-17-2014 06:38 PM
      Still working to get this engine running EFI with the 1227165 ECM and NVRAM
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/119333-6.html

We've been fighting with it for almost 2 months and just couldn't get it right.
It was finally pointed out that the jumper settings to configure the NVRAM board to run the TBI probably weren't right. (didn't get a PDF with the thing)

So once I get that corrected, it may be "start from scratch" again.

BUT... it may be better and faster progress.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 10-17-2014).]

Fierobsessed (nstarfiero@aol.com) MSG #201, 10-17-2014 07:25 PM
      No big deal if you need to re-tune. You've probably wrapped your head around what works, whats needed and what you don't need to touch. So you can start over, well informed of what you're going to need to attack.

I've been working with tunerproRT for many, many years. It really is a pretty dam awesome program. For tuning fuel trims, I usually wire my wide band O2 sensor straight to an unused 0-5V input so that it logs in the datastream. Sometimes I can just wire it into something like a deleted corrosivity sensor input, or deleted EGR feedback, but often I have to liven up an unused input, add a read from that pin, and add the value to the datastream. It sounds like a lot, but once its done, tuning gets way easier!

Then, in tunerpro, I create a datastream variable that looks at the current fueling corrections, (INT + BLM) and the end result from the wide band, and makes a correction factor. I use a hystegram to log the averages of this correction factor into a table scaled similarly to the main VE table, then export the data to Excel and have it build me a new VE table based on the one I used when logging and the correction factors. I smooth out the table, then its good to go. I can usually nail it down in 2-3 log and program sessions. If you are interested in this process I can probably help out. But, I don't know how what your process and help is like already.


Danyel MSG #202, 10-18-2014 12:05 AM
     
Can you tell me what intake bowl set up you you have there or what its from .... THX Reread your thread ATI polished aluminum carb bonnet BEAUTIFUL!!!

Danyel

[This message has been edited by Danyel (edited 10-18-2014).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #203, 10-18-2014 10:21 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobsessed:

No big deal if you need to re-tune. You've probably wrapped your head around what works, whats needed and what you don't need to touch. So you can start over, well informed of what you're going to need to attack.



I'm paying someone to do the tuning. He's having to start over.

Everything else you just said is pretty much gibberish to me ...
I gotta get educated on how to use TunerPro...

We're running $12P
http://pcmhacking.net/forum...241b1b92ed947d905bf7

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 04-05-2015).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #204, 10-18-2014 04:52 PM
      Engine won’t start at all now. Just floods till you smell gas and stop cranking.

Ho-hum --- another summer pissed away. The SD4 is not all it's cracked up to be.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 10-18-2014).]

edfiero (jteague67@outlook.com) MSG #205, 10-22-2014 08:42 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


Ho-hum --- another summer pissed away. The SD4 is not all it's cracked up to be.



Sorry to hear that. I was hoping yours would be 'purring like a kitten' or a tiger by now, so as to give me some hope for my SD4 build. I'm finding it frustrating just finding the right parts sometimes. I ordered a bunch of parts from Summit then ended up sending half of them back because there were wrong, didn't fit, etc.

Times like tihs when I miss my old Impala SS. Just buy a new LT-1 Stroker crate engine, drop it in, and off you go.


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #206, 10-24-2014 06:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by edfiero:

Sorry to hear that. I was hoping yours would be 'purring like a kitten' or a tiger by now, so as to give me some hope for my SD4 build.


If you can find the parts, putting it together is not the problem. There's little documentation on what plugs to use, plug gaps, timing to use etc.
You go with "common sense" and get it running, but you're never sure if it's as "right" as it could be.
We're still working on getting the tune for the fuel injection, but winter is on my doorstep.

SD4 gets HORRIBLE gas mileage if you put your foot in it around town, fast starts at the lights or really boogying with it. (about 50 miles on 1/2 of an 84 tank)
BUT it is hard to drive this engine slow when it's driving reasonably well. About 20-25mpg cruising on the highway in 5th gear at 70 mph.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 11-06-2014).]

AzRick MSG #207, 01-21-2015 12:51 PM
      I LOVE this thread !! I'm building a Duke very similar to this motor build but a different car and have a few questions. I'm using the SD4 iron head and the Edelbrock SD4 intake, what distributor did you use (HEI) that fit under the intake? I have the motor almost done but just found this site and love it. If you have time, I could PM you my questions. Thanks for building this as it helps me decide how to go with the next build (SD4 aluminum head)

AzRick


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #208, 02-07-2015 11:54 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by AzRick:

I LOVE this thread !! I'm building a Duke very similar to this motor build but a different car and have a few questions.
I'm using the SD4 iron head and the Edelbrock SD4 intake, what distributor did you use (HEI) that fit under the intake?


The big cap HEI fits, but is tight and awkward to work with once it's in the car.
An external coil small cap HEI (w/vaccum advance) from a carb'd 1982 Citation w/Duke engine would work as well.
It has the weights and springs you can change to tailor the advance curve.


You can always use the "big cap" one from a carb'd Pontiac/Jeep with 151 Duke engine.
(have the HEI I used in a box since I switched to TBI and computer controlled distributor)
(generic Proform pic below) http://www.summitracing.com.../pro-67093/overview/

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 02-07-2015).]

E.Furgal MSG #209, 02-07-2015 01:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

Not much interest in any of this?? But someone paints their GT yellow and there's 5 pages of comments?

Here's what I did on the interior. It was completely removed and a thorough cleaning of the door panels and all other components was undertaken. The floor mats and carpeting was steam cleaned. The sun-faded "blue" speaker grills were recovered with new speaker fabric. The shifter surround and shifter plate were reglued.

While the interior was out, sound proofing was installed as well as a new stereo system.
To still maintain a "factory" look a Pontiac CD player was installed, but high-end equipment was used in all hidden locations. New Clearwater speakers were installed in the seat headrests and Infinity component speakers went in the dash.

A factory sub-woofer housing with a Tang-band sub went into the factory location.


To power the sub, a Xtant 1.1i 100 watt mono amp was used. This tiny amp really delivers and is perfect for the job because it can be installed under the passenger seat.
Complete stereo writeup here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000031.html

When I received the car, the radio surround was terribly warped and needed to repaired or replaced.


The lack of an oil pressure gauge in the instrument cluster REALLY bothered me because I consider that the MOST important gauge to have. That's why I installed GT gauges and a new radio surround. It's "factory", looks correct, does the job and I needed to replace the warped radio surround anyway. I still have a 2nd voltmeter in the tach, but that's not a big bother.

How to add the gauge cluster: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/093286.html

I never did like the original T-bar type automatic shifter and most others eithers are either too big (Cobra head type) or look wrong (aftermarket aluminum). I found something perfect from 84-96 Corvette - a small size, top-button, dark grey leather wrapped knob that suits the car's interior perfectly. This is smaller than a similar design used in other GMs like Cavaliers, Grand AMs etc. I mounted it on a shortened shifter shaft and installed a new leather boot I purchased from Rodney Dickman.


The previous owner sold the original "mint" Indy seats. Although the Mr Mike's leathers were nice, I'd have preferred a set of originals, but another set of mint seats are few and far between. As luck would have it, we found some OEM red embossed Indy seat fabric which I purchased and had sent off to Mr Mike. Mike did up a beautiful set of repro Indy seats.
I cleaned up the rusty seat rails and repainted them and bought the proper light grey color recliner covers to replace the incorrect dark grey ones the seats in the Indy came with. Once assembled, only an Indy purist would notice that these are not the original seats. The only difference is that the backs of the seats aren't grey fabric like the originals.

The terrible condition of the sunvisors and headliner required that they be replaced. I bought new sunvisors and a headliner recover kit from the Fiero Store. It was a bit of work, but I successfully recovered and reinstalled the headliner and the new visors. I also added the coathooks - 84's didn't have any.



More to come. The engine is next...

Edit: pictures added



did you add the mirror to the sunroof?


E.Furgal MSG #210, 02-07-2015 03:34 PM
      sorry about your efi issues,,
What was the reasoning with going with/back to an "o.e.m." ecu?
With this engine, big ports,(head and intake) big flow.. why not got multi port.. getting the fuel out of that large intake plenum , that at the rpm you'll most likely be running at 75% of the time, will just puddle fuel on the intake floor..
a simple missing tooth wheel behind/infront(depending on room, {junkyard crawl part) of the balancer you could even have sequential EFI , injectors and injector harness are only a junkyard away..
4cly harness and 3800 s/c injectors.. measure the intake port spacing and you might find an oem fuel rail that work is off a quad4 or a echotech , then just have the injector bungs welded to the intake..
sell that fancy "fast" TBI unit, and get a 82-88 CCC-q-jet and take the venturi guts out, and now you have a 4 barrel Throttle body with a Throttle position sensor , real cheap,, and won't be to big,, and if you leave the venturi gut alone, it'll work just like every q-jet only opening the secondaries when the engine needs it or you mash the pedal to wide open.. you just might need an adapter if that intake is only drilled for a square bore carb baseplate..
many others have used the 4.0 ford v6 explorer throttle body..



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #211, 02-07-2015 04:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:

did you add the mirror to the sunroof?


Pretty big quote just to ask that question.
No. The stock sunroof - just painted on the topside to body color.

About the FI system. Easier said than done.
Not a lot of room for individual injectors etc. otherwise Pontiac would have done it.
As it is, NO Duke has anything other than carb or TBI.

FAST system's ECM just flooded my engine.
The conclusion was I had a case of "there's nothing wrong - but it just won't work right".
Whole story here: http://www.cpgnation.com/fo...day-not-today.22587/

It's running decent enough with the 7165 ECM - just a real bad bog when you punch it WOT that I can't get rid off.
Plus I have a knock sensor, ignition control etc. that the FAST did not have (fuel control only).
I think I'll need to use a turtle to reduce some of the volume in that huge open plenum.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-04-2016).]

E.Furgal MSG #212, 02-07-2015 05:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


Pretty big quote just to ask that question.
No. The stock sunroof - just painted on the topside to body color.

About the FI system. Easier said than done.
Not a lot of room for individual injectors etc. otherwise Pontiac would have done it.
As it is, NO Duke has anything other than carb or TBI.
(edit: oops - 1991 Jeeps had port injection Dukes - can't find any details though)

FAST system's ECM just flooded my engine.
The conclusion was I had a case of "there's nothing wrong - but it just won't work right".
Whole story here: http://www.cpgnation.com/fo...day-not-today.22587/

It's running decent enough with the 7165 ECM - just a real bad bog when you punch it WOT that I can't get rid off.
Plus I have a knock sensor, ignition control etc. that the FAST did not have (fuel control only).
I think I'll need to use a turtle to reduce some of the volume in that huge open plenum.


I am going efi and multi port..
there is tons of room.. Pontiac/g.m. didn't because of cost.. and it wasn't needed on a stock duke.. low rpm. good mpg. and didn't need to get every ounce of power and m.p.g. out of it, at that time, besides the olds quad made it pointless for them to invest anymore money in the duke..
anyways good, luck..
for now my indy will have a o.e.m. 2.5 built up some until I can afford a s/d and I'd really like to have the alum block that takes the chevy motorsports smallblock 2.2. head.

as far as the fast efi flooding your engine, it's because the injectors are to big.. for the air flow velocity in that intake/head ports.. at the rpm you'll be running most of the time.. should be interesting if the oem hacked ecu can control that tbi t/b better. or if the same problem will be there, to much fuel parking itself on the intake floor..

[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 02-07-2015).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #213, 02-07-2015 05:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by E.Furgal:

I am going efi and multi port..



I look forward to seeing that in your build thread.

There was a beautiful setup on eBay some time back. He wanted big money but wouldn't include the "small bits".
And I wasn't sure if it would fit the engine bay or what I could use to control it at the time.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...130314-1-084387.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 10-06-2015).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #214, 10-06-2015 11:46 AM
      I had mentioned these WebElectric products earlier in the buildup.
I thought I'd post the website and GIFs of what they do.

http://www.webelectricproducts.com/products.htm

I installed the sequential turn signals module to get this.


I have the brake pulser module for the LED 3rd brake light in the wing.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 10-15-2015).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #215, 05-21-2016 08:24 AM
      The transmission in the Indy is getting harder to shift, sometimes almost impossible.

I've checked the shifter mechanism itself for broken welds/cracks. Everything's OK.
The cables are new Dickman units. I disconnected them from trans. The shifter/cables work freely.
I tried shifting the transmission manually. It's notchy and binding somewhat. Won't go into 1st at times.
I suppose there's an internal wear problem on the forks or something IN the transmission.

I have a NOS 1992 FWD Getrag 5-speed to install.
Just ordered the parts I need from Rodney.
This trans: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum9/HTML/000038.html

I also ordered the same Bully clutch I have in my GT. I'm tired of that 'heavy" effort Spec clutch I have in there...
Because of the Bully pressure plate redesign, the pedal effort is light while still giving great clamping force.
Bully Clutch: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/129057.html

EDIT: cradle taken out May 21

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-13-2016).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #216, 06-13-2016 03:41 PM
      Things are starting to come together.

I had issues with shifting the old Getrag. We split the case and all the gears and differential looked OK.
The problem must be with worn shift forks or something else (synchros replaced not long ago).

Below is a NOS FWD Getrag 5-speed I picked up last year.
I had the Fiero's Getrag bellhousing half of the case swapped over.

The only part I needed from Rodney was the shifter mechanism for the shift shaft.
http://rodneydickman.com/ca...th=28&products_id=58

As I keep telling the guys DETAILING starts BEFORE you put it all together.



[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-08-2016).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #217, 06-13-2016 03:43 PM
      Of course, now is also a good time to refresh the cosmetics of the engine too.
I needed to replace a leaking rear main seal. Did the oil pan gasket at the same time.
Dirt and grime was washed off and the engine block spray-bombed Gloss Black.



[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-13-2016).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #218, 06-13-2016 03:47 PM
      You have to do the engine bay and cradle too! It's the easiest time to do all this.
(axles will be cleaned up once transmission is back on cradle)
I'm amazed how many people skip this step - too excited about doing their engine swap I guess.



[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-13-2016).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #219, 06-17-2016 09:34 AM
      I got my flywheel back from resurfacing and assembly balancing.

The flywheel HAD been zero balanced before, so I was surprised to see it needed anything at all.
The clutch is brand new, but even it needed a tweak to bring it into neutral balance.
This thing should be glass smooth to 8000 rpm!



The rear main seal had a slight leak and needed to be changed.
Easiest way to get it out is to drill 2 small holes in the seal and screw in 2 metal screws.
You can then pull it out with a claw hammer.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-17-2016).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #220, 06-17-2016 09:37 AM
      The cradle is ready to go back in!
When I did my auto-to-manual transmission swap, I forgot to take pics...





[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 06-17-2016).]

Fiero Thomas (tom@fieronews.net) MSG #221, 06-18-2016 05:36 PM
      Love this car. Keep up the good work.



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #222, 06-18-2016 07:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero Thomas:

Love this car. Keep up the good work.



Thank you. I may have it running in a couple of days...

Just spent the better part of 2 days figuring out why the A/C system won't hold a charge.

Many thanks to RWDPLZ for his information here:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/000652.html

Half my O-rings were the wrong type and I DO remember the guy at the A/C shop matching them up saying
"these are a little thinner, but they should still seal fine." NOT!! What a lot of grief it has caused.

I've run the system to a vacuum of 20 lbs. It's still holding 1/2 hour later so far...


Inferno (infernoz24@hotmail.com) MSG #223, 06-24-2016 10:43 PM
      Looks amazing. I cant wait to see it in person.

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #224, 07-04-2016 12:06 AM
      It's up and running. Yay! - no oil leaks anywhere
(new rear main seal, axle seals, transmission halves joint, oil pan gasket)

The clutch and FWD Getrag transmission are working great too.
It's getting better as it 'breaks in' - the Getrag was tight and notchy at first because it is NEW.

I noticed a side benefit of the FWD Getrag is smaller shift and select throws.
This is likely a result of the transmission's shorter shift shaft that Rodney's kit bolts on to.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 07-04-2016).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #225, 08-02-2016 11:43 AM
      I always had problems with the A/C after converting to R134a.
(new compressor, O-rings, orifice, accumulator etc.)
The A/C worked great, but the charge wouldn't last more than a week.

When I dropped the cradle to replace the clutch and transmission,
I found a cracked A/C hose tube at the compressor end. Got that welded.
I also installed a new condenser I had bought a couple of years ago.
And I replaced all the O-rings in the system with the correct ones this time.

It's now working and is blowing SO cold with R152a that it can freeze you out of the car…
It appears I have finally fixed ALL the leaks once and for all.

More here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/138319.html

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-04-2016).]

Havoc04 (kyleammirata@gmail.com) MSG #226, 08-29-2016 08:36 AM
      Bump! Any updates?

Your build makes me really want an SD4 for my Indy.


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #227, 08-29-2016 06:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Havoc04:

Any updates? .


Working on a MPFI system using the Edelbrock 2-bbl intake.
The manifold was designed for mechanical fuel injection nozzles.
Luckily the bosses are beefy enough to be drilled for electronic injectors.

Edit: added this pic I found online



Here's a mockup of the fuel rail using plastic tube. Have to duplicate it with aluminum.
I got some Holley extruded fuel rail but it's bulky and heavy. Tubing like this may be better.

2-bbl throttle body is from a Dodge 3.9L V6 - twin 42mm bores.
The nice part is the TB topend fits a 4-bbl air cleaner - so my carb bonnet fits.



I did an Autocad drawing for the carb manifold/TB adapter and had it water-jetted.



The injector nozzles are dead center where they should be.




Manifold was drilled using a ShopSmith. We started with the center ones.



They were easy. The end ones have 2 angles to get right.




Injectors are tiny EV14 injectors with extension.
48lb Bosch part number 0 280 158 211





Spray pattern of these Bosch injectors.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-25-2018).]

edfiero (jteague67@outlook.com) MSG #228, 09-01-2016 09:49 AM
      Will you need a new fuel pump for those injectors?
What ECU / how are you going to tune ?



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #229, 09-01-2016 10:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by edfiero:

Will you need a new fuel pump for those injectors?
What ECU / how are you going to tune ?


Same pump, same 1227165 ECM I have in the car right now running the FAST throttle body injection (at 43psi)
Go back one page in this thread. Also here: http://www.cpgnation.com/fo...-today.22587/page-10

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-03-2016).]

liv4God MSG #230, 10-22-2016 05:07 AM
      Amazing thread and awesome work! I really enjoyed reading this, thanks for sharing your knowledge and work and lots of pictures
Keep up the great work!


mender MSG #231, 01-06-2017 10:33 AM
      Interesting read and nice car, sorry to see how much trouble you've had with the engine and fueling. I have a race shop about an hour north of you and I road race an '87 GT. I worked at Guyon Racing in Calgary when we built Art McKenzie's rally Fiero with the SD4 engines back in the late '80s and early '90s and still have an SD mechanical fuel injection system set up for alcohol. I do a fair bit of EFI work including tuning and am surprised that you've had trouble finding good tuners in Calgary. I built a 2.0 engine for a sports racer with a race cam that idles at 1000 rpm and makes 200 hp at 7500 rpm that runs the SDS system (local company), very easy to tune and designed for engines like yours that are closer to race than street. I've tuned FAST and AEM Infinity systems for race-cammed engines, wasn't all that pleased with their tech support and ended up doing things my way to make their systems work, and although very capable both systems are quite a bit more complex and harder to tune than the SDS. I usually end up doing the driveability tuning after the engine/car gets off the dyno, seems most tuners just want to do the WOT stuff.

Looks like you're on the right track with the MPFI but the 48 lb injectors are a little big if you're going with that size unless you're planning to boost it, which isn't likely with the 10.5:1 compression ratio. WIth the previous 160 hp reading at the wheels with the auto you're probably in the 220 hp range at the crank, so I'd suggest around the 32 lb range, still enough to supply 260 hp but easier to meter at low rpm and loads. I also do show quality custom headers so if you're still having sealing issues and would like a header with a better flange, cleaner welding and proper sized secondary tubing, let me know and we'll talk Fiero.

[This message has been edited by mender (edited 01-06-2017).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #232, 01-21-2017 05:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mender:

Looks like you're on the right track with the MPFI but the 48 lb injectors are a little big if you're going with that size unless you're planning to boost it, which isn't likely with the 10.5:1 compression ratio. WIth the previous 160 hp reading at the wheels with the auto you're probably in the 220 hp range at the crank, so I'd suggest around the 32 lb range, still enough to supply 260 hp but easier to meter at low rpm and loads. I also do show quality custom headers so if you're still having sealing issues and would like a header with a better flange, cleaner welding and proper sized secondary tubing, let me know and we'll talk Fiero.



Thanks. I talked a bit with you about your car at last spring's Didsbury show.

If you don't have a V8 Mustang, Camaro, Corvette or a Ricer - there's no tuners here.
I certainly don't know anyone local using TunerPro RT which is the only way to program the setup I have.
The 48# rating is at 58psi. I'll be running 42psi.

I have to get this installed and see where I stand.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 01-21-2017).]

Stubby79 MSG #233, 01-23-2017 11:37 AM
      nice work on that intake!

mender MSG #234, 01-25-2017 10:23 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


Thanks. I talked a bit with you about your car at last spring's Didsbury show.

If you don't have a V8 Mustang, Camaro, Corvette or a Ricer - there's no tuners here.
I certainly don't know anyone local using TunerPro RT which is the only way to program the setup I have.
The 48# rating is at 58psi. I'll be running 42psi.

I have to get this installed and see where I stand.


That still puts the rating at about 41 lbs, enough to support over 300 hp. Not the end of the world but everything's easier when the numbers are closer.

Have you checked with Toma at Dynomotive?



Lilchief MSG #235, 06-16-2017 05:22 PM
      Tony. Any luck with the new intake ?



Lilchief MSG #236, 06-16-2017 08:08 PM
      mender, sent you a p m



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #237, 07-10-2017 06:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Lilchief:

Tony. Any luck with the new intake ?



Not on the car yet - but I've been working on it.

Have to get ends of fuel rail bored/tapped for ORB (O-Ring Boss) fuel fittings.
Then bead blast and powder coat intake, adapter/spacer, alt/dogbone mount and throttle bracket.

The Edelbrock manifold was intended for mechanical fuel injection nozzles of that time.
This arrangement could not possibly fit without the new compact EFI injectors of today.



[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-15-2018).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #238, 07-11-2017 12:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mender:

... I worked at Guyon Racing in Calgary when we built Art McKenzie's rally Fiero with the SD4 engines back in the late '80s and early '90s and still have an SD mechanical fuel injection system set up for alcohol.



mender: you have a PM...

A video clip of Art McKenzie's SD4 car...

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 07-11-2017).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #239, 07-26-2017 09:09 AM
      Finally started installation of the Multi-port EFI system I put together.



Here's the 2-bbl and 4-bbl manifolds together to show how huge the open plenum is on the 4-bbl intake.



Just a quick test fit to see how it looks in the engine bay. :-)



KurtAKX MSG #240, 07-27-2017 10:25 PM
      curious to see how you make that last bend with the throttle cable- re-using the bellcrank from previous iteration?

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #241, 07-28-2017 10:10 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

curious to see how you make that last bend with the throttle cable- re-using the bellcrank from previous iteration?


Yes. It will be the easiest solution and I can use the cables I have.
The TB's bracket would bring the cables over the valve cover (ugly).
And the current cables don't fit the Dodge bracket holes.

Pretty close now.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-25-2018).]

KurtAKX MSG #242, 07-28-2017 03:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:





OK, one other question.

Looks like you've got a GM knock sensor screwed in there;
how did you choose a knock sensor, since there are a plethora of options?
[very incomplete list.....]
10456288 (4.3 and 5.7)
10456287 (5.0)
10456549 (7.4)
10456208 (3.1)
10456209 (2.2 pushrod)
I have heard the "bore diameter" thing before, but I'm not convinced.

[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 07-28-2017).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #243, 07-29-2017 12:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

I have heard the "bore diameter" thing before, but I'm not convinced.



Not sure how else you will decide then...

Pretty sure I got one for a 1993 Chev S10 with 2.5 Duke.
That's the closest SD4 engine "relative" - AND they have the same bore.
https://goo.gl/FCYTeK

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-25-2018).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #244, 07-30-2017 04:25 PM
      It's in! The engine runs!

Not very driveable at present - fuel map is all wrong.
Have contacted the fellow who helped TunerPro it last time.







[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 07-30-2017).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #245, 07-30-2017 04:29 PM
      Also, thanks to Cody, I was able to obtain the #163 Indy Parade Car Plate.
So after 33 years, it's can again be shown on the car it belongs to.





KurtAKX MSG #246, 07-31-2017 09:39 AM
      [u][/u]
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


Not sure how else you will decide then...

Pretty sure I got one for a 1993 Chev S10 with 2.5 Duke.
That's the closest SD4 engine "relative" - AND they have the same bore.


Do you happen to have a part number? I don't see a knock sensor on GMPartsdirect, Rockauto, or Advance Auto sites.



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #247, 07-31-2017 10:19 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

[u][/u]Do you happen to have a part number? I don't see a knock sensor on GMPartsdirect, Rockauto, or Advance Auto sites.


Oops... I think it was a 91 S10...
or '93 https://goo.gl/FCYTeK

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-25-2018).]

Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #248, 08-01-2017 12:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:

Still working to get this engine running EFI with the 1227165 ECM and NVRAM
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...2/HTML/119333-6.html

We've been fighting with it for almost 2 months and just couldn't get it right.
It was finally pointed out that the jumper settings to configure the NVRAM board to run the TBI probably weren't right. (didn't get a PDF with the thing)

So once I get that corrected, it may be "start from scratch" again.

BUT... it may be better and faster progress.



One of the cleanest SD4 builds that I've seen. As for tuning are you scanning and taking a log? Those early C3 ECM's can be tricky to tune but the guys on the Moates forum seem to have the process down pat.



fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #249, 08-02-2017 12:50 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

One of the cleanest SD4 builds that I've seen. As for tuning are you scanning and taking a log?
Those early C3 ECM's can be tricky to tune but the guys on the Moates forum seem to have the process down pat.



Thanks Dennis

I'm completely set up using TunerPro RT (Real Time) 'live' emulator that can also scan and datalog.
All through the ALDL port with a 1227165 ECM : https://pcmhacking.net/foru...topic.php?f=27&t=356

I'm still checking a few things and may need to start with a different BIN than I have now.
These guys know their stuff too: http://www.gearhead-efi.com...7248d86a7e5f6178e6b6

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-02-2017).]

FieroMaster88 (fast88fiero@yahoo.com) MSG #250, 08-02-2017 07:39 PM
      Ok, I'm sending you my Indy! That is one clean engine.

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #251, 08-03-2017 09:16 AM
      I test drove the Indy today.

Even with the rough tune - it's never run this good!


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #252, 08-06-2017 11:22 AM
      I am making progress.

I got most of the base parameters in my BIN in pretty good shape.
Got my fuel grams/second figured out. Idles great at 13.5 - 14.0 AFR.
RPM was be too high when engine started hot or cold - fixed that.
Took a long time for RPM to come down to idle from hot or cold start - fixed that.
Engine took too long for RPM to come down to idle from blipping throttle - fixed decay rate.
Other minor changes in base parameters at this point only. Haven't touched any fuel/spark tables yet.

So now the SD4 starts good, idles quite well for 'lumpy' engine and is quite driveable.
I will be driving with TunerPro RT and recording Datalogs to to see what it needs in more detail.

Solved a minor problem I was having with ECM throwing a Code 24 for VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor).
CEL (Check Engine Light) would come on at about 4800 rpm when accelerating and engine would buck.

Here is what playing back TunerPro DataLog showed ECM was seeing.
I'm accelerating "floored" (See TPS, MAP, and RPM) in 2nd gear +60kph when ECM suddenly thinks I'm at 0 and cuts fuel.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-19-2017).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #253, 08-19-2017 08:48 AM
      Just an update...

I finally FOUND the source of the problem causing all the headaches.
An intermittent short of the battery cable near the starter on a heat shield.

On the '84, all the supply wires with fusible links connect there too.
So anytime the short touched, the ECM etc. all lost power for a milli-second.

New cable fixed everything. And it is now well protected.

This engine has NEVER run so well before...
Much, much better than the carburetor or Fast TBI on there before.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-19-2017).]

Lilchief MSG #254, 09-18-2017 09:46 PM
      Glad to here it's running better. Does it seem to have more power ? How about mpg. A sound video would be cool. Any tips on your intake mods for the injectors, like hole sizes and depth if stepped. and angles. Keep up the great craftsmanship, and ingenuity.



Blackwater MSG #255, 02-14-2018 11:08 AM
      I'm brand new here!! First let me say that this is a BEAUTIFUL project!! Very well executed!!

I have a couple of questions. I'm doing research for a project of my own and have already gleaned some great information from this thread. I've read it from beginning to end and it's a great thread!! I'm building an older 153" Chevy II engine and I'm searching for a roller camshaft for my project. I know that the cam bearings and timing gear are the same for both engines and that the crankshafts can be interchanged with a little work. I also know that the very early "Iron Dukes" used the same camshaft and lifters as the 153s.

Here is the first question: Were the lifter bores on the later crossflow Iron Duke and SD blocks different from the earlier castings? Did they change the lifter bore angle or placement?

The second question is for the original poster. Again!! I'm impressed with the level of fit and finish of your project and with your determination to get this working. This is NOT criticism!! I'm just curious!! Have you considered having a little extra material added to the narrow spots on your header flange?? I had to do this to the header on my 153, but it CURED the exhaust leak and gasket damage problems.

Like I said. I'm new here!! I hope I can pick up some much needed information and education here. I'm an experienced mechanic and fabricator, (retired) with fifty years worth of knowledge and training. I owned one of the first Fieros in Nashville, TN, a 4spd LE model. The GTs and such came out later. Maybe I'll build another one someday.



Lilchief MSG #256, 02-23-2018 03:29 PM
      Tony, sent you an email.

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #257, 02-24-2018 03:03 PM
      Blackwater -->> Thank you and welcome to PFF
Lilchief -->> email replied to

Chev 153" engine is a similar but different animal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...53_4-cylinder_engine

I do not have any answers to the questions you posed.
But the SD4 Engine Guide has engine blueprints in it.
http://www.fieronews.net/fu...id=21&download_id=87

I used the cam that was in the SD4 engine and
had it reground by Colt Cams here in Canada.
http://www.coltcams.com/

Header seems to be OK right now, so I don't need to take it off.



Blackwater MSG #258, 02-26-2018 07:48 PM
      I appreciate the response! I've gained a little more info since that last post! The valve train layout is different between the later crossflow head and the older unit. The valves in the newer head are I E I E E I E I. The older head is E I I E E I I E. The later head COULD be adapted fairly easily, BUT I already have an older head ported, polished, new valves installed with new keepers, springs, retainers, larger stainless valves, guide plates, and professionally assembled.

I talked to Geoff at Colt Cams. If I can find a blank, he'll grind a cam for me!!

Thanks again for all the information you've put together!!


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #259, 03-25-2018 05:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Blackwater:

Thanks again for all the information you've put together!!




Start your own thread about the 153ci engine and move this stuff there so we don't clutter this thread.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 03-25-2018).]

fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #260, 05-15-2018 05:43 PM
      Thank goodness for Pick n Pull!

The last tuning I was doing with TunerPro showed that I needed MORE AIR above 5000rpm.



So I got the Dodge 5.2/5.9 V8 throttle body (OEM by Holley) with it's bigger 2" bores on the right.
It's identical to the V6 TB otherwise, so the only other thing I needed to do was bore the adapter plate to match.



The Holley performance single injector TB for the Iron Duke is also a 2" bore.



While I was in there, I decided to make the throttle wheel look better too.



I test drove it the other day.
I think this is the perfect combination.
Now it's a matter of fine tuning with TunerPro RT.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-19-2018).]

shemdogg MSG #261, 05-15-2018 05:47 PM
      Bro the car n motor are BEAUTIFULLLLLL! very nice!

shem


fierosound (fierosound1@shaw.ca) MSG #262, 05-16-2018 12:42 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by shemdogg:

Bro the car n motor are BEAUTIFULLLLLL! very nice!

shem


Thank you... your comment is appreciated.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 05-19-2018).]