3.4L pushrod Swap (lots of pics)
Topic started by: sardonyx247, Date: 05-23-2004 02:00 PM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000026.html


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #1, 05-23-2004 02:00 PM
      Here is my 3.4L Pushrod swap. From a 95 Camaro to a 87 Fiero GT. I did a lot of cleaning and painting of everything. I posted 204 pics of the engine swap, parts as they were removed, cleaned, painted, powder coated, swaped, reassembled, etc....
If you need info about any bracket on the 2.8L/3.4L engine I should have a pic of it posted here.
Also pics and info for stripping the old powdercoat off of the intake/valve covers, are posted here.
And all of the info that I had to use in the swap.

Randye came in and added rebuild pics, for those of you who want to rebuild it first.

And I added pics of my rebuild with a turbo too.

If this thread has helped anyone please post comments at the end.



InDeX420 MSG #2, 05-23-2004 02:35 PM
      All of dem please

Spyhunter (kim@designisadditive.com) MSG #3, 05-23-2004 04:03 PM
      I am going to be doing this swap soon - all the pics would be extremely helpful! Thanks!



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #4, 05-23-2004 04:54 PM
      OK we will start with these.

Here is the 3.4L out of a '95 camaro, 50,000 miles on it








sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #5, 05-23-2004 04:56 PM
      I have to leave now to go do more work on it.
I will post more later.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #6, 05-23-2004 07:39 PM
      Here are some pics of my old 2.8 still in the car





Can anyone see why I had low oil pressure???
these pics might be too small to see it.


Here is some background on my GT. I had aranged to buy it fairly cheap, Great body, engine sounded ok. He had trouble shifting and said the oil light was always on. He said he bleed the clutch system but the fluid was still black, so he just didn't do it right. The guy said when I was going to go pick it up that he would charge the battery. So I called him eqarly so hecould charge it, what I thought was to put it on a battery charger. Well he went driving to charge it. When I got there it now had a small knock/tapping sound. I figured it had a spun bearing from read through the posts. I thought no biggie, needs an engine. Well on the way home....WHAP WHAP WHAP, now it got LOUD. So I limped it home, and there it sat staring at me everyday. So I looked into engine swaps....a 2.8L $700, a 3.1L stroker kit $499, then I found a 3.4L for $400. The engine got bigger and the price kept going down. Well thats a no brainer on what I was going to do. So I went down and got the 3.4L and that is where the first set of pics starts, when we got it back to the shop.



NotAFieroAnyLonger (stelebla@aol.com) MSG #7, 05-23-2004 07:46 PM
      Great so far.. Keep them sucker's a comin'...



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #8, 05-23-2004 10:08 PM
      Here are a few more of the 3.4L mostly striped down


This oil filter adapter needs to be removed, on the 2.8L there is a 10mm hex fitting inside that you have to transfer to the 3.4L block. Then the oil filter screws on to it.
If you compare these to the first set you can see some of what you have to strip off the 3.4L, pretty much down to the heads(leave them on).



Fastback 86 MSG #9, 05-23-2004 10:11 PM
      Hmmm that all looks sooooooo familiar.......I wonder why?

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #10, 05-24-2004 02:18 AM
      Caliper tied out of the way

Here is a bottom shot.
I was looking at this pic later at home and noticed only one tire was on the ground

Here's my old A/C compressor. Notice the green dye?
I have never jumped out from under a car so fast. The compressor was froze and I thought the freon or 134 was long since gone.

More later........

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #11, 05-26-2004 05:00 AM
      The last shot of the 2.8L in the car.

A couple of pics with the craddle supported and unbolted.
An easy trick to getting the front craddle bolts out that I found is to take the nut off and push on the bolt then use a jack to slowly jack up then it will just fly out. The backs just lower down to the stands.


I used a chain hook to the trunk latch and a forklift to raise the back, with the craddle unbolted the back is much lighter.

The 2.8L comming out



1MohrFiero MSG #12, 05-26-2004 06:36 AM
      Nice! Keep them coming. How about some shots of the starter relocation. Before and after if you have them. Thanks,



yons (yons@aol.com) MSG #13, 05-26-2004 06:44 AM
      dont stop now keep them coming



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #14, 05-26-2004 07:33 AM
      Well I don't have any yet of the after pics of the starter holes, since I still havent done them yet.
I will get some good before now, then post then after later


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #15, 05-26-2004 07:39 AM
      The 2.8 comming out the back on the forklift

Being brought into the shop


The 2.8L as it sat on the craddle




sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #16, 05-26-2004 07:50 AM
      My Fiero as it sits now



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #17, 05-26-2004 01:04 PM
      Questions? comments?

BtotheB (b.cathrae@gmail.com) MSG #18, 05-26-2004 01:27 PM
      Cool pics, keep 'em coming. A couple questions though: where's the standing in the engine bay picture? And just wondering, what was the reason for the low oil pressure on the old engine?

Brad

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #19, 05-26-2004 02:51 PM
      no standing in the bay as I am the one with the camera
And the low oil is a broken lifter, which in turn, caused the engine to get the rod knock


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #20, 05-27-2004 10:00 PM
      I found that the back manifilod was cracked. Luckly we have alot of parts around

And I found that stock manifold has this crappy restriction in 2 of the ports.

After a quick porting job there are gone.

this might be good for a couple of horses, mabey.

Formula88 MSG #21, 05-27-2004 10:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

I found that the back manifilod was cracked. Luckly we have alot of parts around

And I found that stock manifold has this crappy restriction in 2 of the ports.

After a quick porting job there are gone.

this might be good for a couple of horses, mabey.

Porting the exhaust manifolds is generally thought to be worth about 8-10 HP on a stock 2.8.
It's one of the most common "free" mods.

One thing you need to do, though, is reinforce the welds on the outside of the manifolds where the port primary tubes come into the main manifold tube. (the joint you grinded on the inside). Otherwise, you risk cracking and leaking at the junctions where you ported.

Did that make any sense?

TaurusThug (roadconephoto@gmail.com) MSG #22, 05-27-2004 10:52 PM
      so grinding down those little restrictions is good for about 10 hp on a 135hp engine? damn thats a 7% increase in power DAMN... can you take a better picture of the broken lifter so i can see what it looks like?



Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #23, 05-27-2004 11:06 PM
      a lil off topic for the thug... Heres a pic of my dead lifter on my 4cyl..

http://www.fiero.nl/uploads/030.jpg

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #24, 05-27-2004 11:08 PM
      8-10 on the 2.8? NICE. It just looked bad so I ground it out. I thought it was common sense by just seeing it.

Here are the same pics as before but full size
http://www.lasvegasfieroclu...4L_swap/PIC00679.JPG
http://www.lasvegasfieroclu...4L_swap/PIC00682.JPG

It's in the middle.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #25, 05-28-2004 03:01 AM
      Here are the two flywheels.
You need a neutraly balanced flywheel, The one for the '88 Fiero will work just fine.
I got mine at Partsamerica.com for only $39.99
Just set 'your car' as an '88 Fiero V6 and look up and order the $39.99 flywheel( The part# is Standard Flywheels 6500 )with a $35 core
You can order online and pick up at the store. Then take back your old flywheel the next day for the core.

The old '87 2.8L is on the left, The new ''88 2.8L flywheel is on the right. Notice the weight on the old one.


A side shot


2013 Edit to add:
I don't think they have the flywheel at that price anymore.
The Fiero Store now carries the 88 neutrally balanced flywheel needed for the 3.4 swap, at $59.95 Just FYI for everyone.

http://www.fierostore.com/P...px?s=54020&d=203&p=1

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 04-22-2013).]

Fastback 86 MSG #26, 05-28-2004 03:11 AM
      Yeah, DON'T forget about the flywheel weight. Else you'll be pulling the whole thing back out to replace it. Or you'll destroy you're main bearings, negating the entire swap.

Trust me on this one.

Sardonyx247 knows what I'm talking about.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #27, 05-28-2004 10:43 PM
      The old water pump from the 3.4 (Left, and the new one 2.8 type(right) Waterpumps are cheap so I recomend getting a new one at this time to save headaches latter.

You have to use the timing cover from the 2.8L
the 3.4 flows the opposite way

The 2.8L timing cover

The 3.4L timing cover



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #28, 05-29-2004 06:29 AM
      More pics while my powder coat in baking........
While the cover was off I decided to replace the seal.
When they say "just pry it out with a small screwdriver" I had a hell of a time getting mine out
But to put it in just use a block of wood and a hammer.

The old seal still in and first paint

old seal out, new one ready to go in

New seal in and the tools used

Yes I know the timing marks are upside down. I corrected this as you can see in other pics

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 05-29-2004).]

Formula88 MSG #29, 05-29-2004 11:45 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

If the 3.4L you get is an auto like mine was, and you have a stick, like mine is, you also need to get a PILOT BUSHING too.

No you don't. The Fiero doesn't use a pilot bushing. The transmission has an input shaft bearing built into it that supports the input shaft, so no pilot bushing is needed. If it makes you feel better to use one, go ahead. The input shaft will never reach it.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #30, 05-29-2004 01:55 PM
      No hmmm........Thats nice to know.

Here's some more pics to try to catch up to where I'm at

The engine with degreaser on it, kind of a weird pic since the degreaser causes the black

My painted 3.4L (First color)

Our shop the first night after we bruoght the 2.8L in

The 3.4L without the timing cover

The 3.4L with the 2.8 timing cover and new 2.8 water pump

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 03-08-2005).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #31, 05-29-2004 02:13 PM
      You also need to transfer timing marks from the 2.8 balancer to the 3.4 one.
I lined up the groove on the inside by stacking them, I got a straight edge and scribed a new mark.
Then I got a hacksaw and made a deeper groove
you can see the smaller groove in this pic

I painted the balancer,

Taped off for the new line

And the new line

The 3.4L with the old 2.8L



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #32, 05-29-2004 02:22 PM
      My exhaust in high temp blue



Racingman24 (racingman24@gmail.com) MSG #33, 05-29-2004 02:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


I spy another Fiero in amongst all those Camaro's. Parts Car???

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #34, 05-29-2004 02:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Racingman24:


I spy another Fiero in amongst all those Camaro's. Parts Car???

go to our site and click on "pics of our yard" they are old pics but you will get the idea

Oh and BTW there are 6 Fieros in that pic. 2 of them are hard to tell but I know whats there
If you guys want to try to find them all here is the full sized pic.
http://www.lasvegasfieroclub.com/3.4L_swap/PIC00719.JPG



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #35, 05-29-2004 03:06 PM
      The 3.4L with the intake off

The 3.4L with the new intake gasket on.

A close up of the intake ports
See the restrictions in them? Anyone know if these can be ground out? Just for future reference.

The 2.8L lower intake painted

And installed on to the 3.4L



JazzMan (jazzman@fierocentral.com) MSG #36, 05-29-2004 03:40 PM
      Those "restrictions" are actually vanes that set up a vortex flow around the valve stem. Removing those on a normally-aspirated motor is good for a 10-15 HP loss, not gain.

BTW, nice buildup thread.

JazzMan

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #37, 05-29-2004 05:23 PM
      They looked too big to not be there by design, is what I was thinking.

avengador1 (avengador1@aol.com) MSG #38, 05-29-2004 05:45 PM
      You can polish the fins a bit to help with the air flow.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #39, 05-30-2004 01:01 AM
      The '87 craddle just after I pulled the engine off of it

Craddle minus transmission

Craddle getting ready for paint


And painted It looks Sooooo much better



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #40, 05-30-2004 04:17 AM
      A bunch of brackets from the 2.8L, cleaned and painted. I thought they might help people in future reference of brackets.

Pulleys




sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #41, 05-30-2004 04:19 AM
      This stuff is coming out good since this is the first time I have ever dug in to a Fiero V6, painted engine parts, did an engine swap(though I did a 4 to 5 speed swap in my old 84 SE), polished aluminum, or powder coated.

More Brackets



1MohrFiero MSG #42, 05-30-2004 07:38 AM
      Looking good. You are making nice progess. Nice documentation too. Thanks,

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #43, 05-30-2004 01:12 PM
      Time for a color change

The old color(which I just didn't like)

The new color

The 3.4L(left), The 2.8L(right)

The last shot of the old color. Notice the gloss is gone, I scuffed it up to take the new paint. All taped off

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 05-30-2004).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #44, 05-30-2004 01:16 PM
      Then the base coats


Now the new color

I like this color soooo much better.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #45, 05-30-2004 10:09 PM
      Anyone have any questions or comments? Like it, dislike it, anything?

1MohrFiero MSG #46, 05-31-2004 08:43 AM
      I like the new color. It would look nice with some chrome valve covers. Keep the shots coming. Don't forget the pics of the starter relocation.

topcat (tconey01@att.net) MSG #47, 05-31-2004 12:51 PM
      Engine swap threads always capture my attention. I am for one am glad that you picked a darker blue. The pale/skyblue color just did not do it for me. The darker blue looks GREAT! Keep up the good work and documentation, and hopefully we will see the end results real soon.



Wesley MSG #48, 06-01-2004 01:35 PM
      i have a question how many horses does the 3.4 have?

Fastback 86 MSG #49, 06-01-2004 01:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Wesley:

i have a question how many horses does the 3.4 have?


Stock, 160 horsies and something close to 200 lb-ft of torque. I can never remember the exact number. You can supe up the 3.4 with cams and such to make180-190hp, or you can go to a carburated set up like a couple members have and top out around 220hp.


Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #50, 06-01-2004 04:39 PM
      Very nice build up and documentation It remembers me when I did mine. Nice blue color too! But I doubt the one in the exhaust pipes will stay anywhere like that for too long. This gives me some strenght to go back and fixup mine



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #51, 06-03-2004 10:56 PM
      I had to reinstall my PC, so when I get PIP and some other programs up I will put up more pics.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #52, 06-04-2004 07:21 AM
      The last of the brakets that I Forgot about from the 2.8


Cleaned.....


And painted


Repainted in the new color



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #53, 06-05-2004 12:35 AM
      The stripping of my valve covers and intake.

I scuffed up the old powdercoat to help the stripper penitrate it.

You might be able to see the bubbleing of the old powdercoat


Here is all the stuff I used to strip off the old powdercoat.

Use the green scruby on the valve covers and the wire brush on the intake.
Make sure to WEAR GOGGLES and GLOVES when useing paint stripper. It BURNS when it gets on your skin, even the smallest paint flake. I know a sand blaster works the best, But I don't have one, so this is a cheap DYI guide
It take a couple of coats and don't let it dry or it just turns back to hard-to-remove coating.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #54, 06-05-2004 12:36 AM
      All stripped off.



donk316 (donk_316@juno.com) MSG #55, 06-05-2004 01:05 AM
      Actually looks better plain. nice.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #56, 06-05-2004 01:55 AM
      Polished ready for powdercoat



The_Ikon MSG #57, 06-05-2004 03:10 AM
      Very nice thread!

Hey anyone, what type of HP and TQ does one get from the 3.4 and performance numbers vs the 2.8? 0-60 and 1/4 miles times? MPG? Is it easier to modify the engine vs the 2.8? How much does these figures change with an automatic?

The Ikon

InDeX420 MSG #58, 06-05-2004 11:14 AM
      I LOVE pic threads....anyway that paint looks real Badass, can I have some info on what kinda paint etc? also will it stay looking like that after it gets all warmed up???

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #59, 06-06-2004 01:13 PM
      ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^I won't know how the paint holds up untill I fire it up. (fingers are crossed)^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

This is the FIRST time we tried powdercoating, on a test piece.
This test the pressure was too high, thats why the powder is so thin.

Here is the light we used.

It was a project to say the least. The light we used just didn't work as well as we though, the parts just did not got to curing temp. with more practice it should work. But what I had to do for my parts is: coat it, then melt the powder, then drive to where I had a deticated oven, and cured it there. it took a few trips.

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 10-21-2005).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #60, 06-06-2004 01:26 PM
      This is THE VERY FIRST THING I have ever sprayed/coated.
Fresh out of the oven.
The colors I used came out with a nice marble effect on the valve covers.

and the sand cast was left to give it a kind of sparkle in the sun




sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #61, 06-06-2004 01:30 PM
      With the tape removed. There is still some adhesive on the polished parts in these pics. Thats been all cleaned up now.

This one I was still pulling the tape off and just had to get a pic, it looked so good.

So what do you guy/gals think of my first crack at powder coating?



topcat (tconey01@att.net) MSG #62, 06-06-2004 03:31 PM
      I can hardly wait to see it all back together. It looks great!

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #63, 06-09-2004 11:51 PM
      I SAID "So what do you guy/gals think of my first crack at powder coating?"

Fastback 86 MSG #64, 06-10-2004 02:30 AM
      Damn pretty. Wish I could powder coat, I did a rattle can job and it came out pretty good considering.

donk316 (donk_316@juno.com) MSG #65, 06-10-2004 02:56 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

I SAID "So what do you guy/gals think of my first crack at powder coating?"

lol! you did good. *pat on the head*



Black-Azz-GT (chris@hawkscay.tv) MSG #66, 06-26-2004 09:03 AM
      how bout an update?



Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #67, 06-26-2004 10:42 AM
      Jeez! That's what I get for being out of town for a few days.
I don't believe I missed this thread.

Nice work, man! The powdercoat looks great, too.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #68, 06-26-2004 03:33 PM
      Here's some pics on replacing the rear main seal. The more over 50,000 miles the more you should want to replace it. You should anyway if you have the engine out since it is cheap and easy to do now than a PITA later.

The old 'Rear Main Seal'

The new one

To get the old one out push a screwdriver into the rubber seal and under the metal lip. Then carefully pry it out, my came right out with any problems, easily.

The Rear Main Seal removed

and the old one, out

The new one in. It came with a shoe horn type of install tool with it

I used a piece of wood to tap the new one down

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 10-21-2005).]

Black-Azz-GT (chris@hawkscay.tv) MSG #69, 06-26-2004 06:47 PM
      Glad to see you have done this! Good lookin out.

Keep us posted. This thread hasnt died. We Are just sitting back waiting for more updates.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #70, 06-27-2004 02:24 AM
      Pics of things painted along the way.

Middle intake

Exhaust before.......


And after


Transmission before.......


And after



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #71, 06-27-2004 02:29 AM
      Transmission brackets
The flash made them come out gray is these photos, but the paint is black.

Back together


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #72, 06-27-2004 02:37 AM
      Coolent pipe

Even the bolt heads


Here are the heat sheilds that I have. I could not find any high enough temp paint the I liked so I left them alone.
Am I missing any? Not counting the ones attached to the car.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #73, 06-27-2004 02:57 AM
      Here are the pics from the Starter Relocation Swap.
The starter has to be moved to the other side of the block on the 3.4L. So holes have to be drilled and taped.

I held up the starter, with the teeth engaged, to see how it all fits

You have to make sure that where you have it and it is DISengaged that the flywheel doesn't hit this rubber bushing in the starter....Like so

Then I used a punch to mark the center of the first hole.

Got everthing level and drilled a pilot hole. (You don't have to use a pilot hole but I just chose to)

Then when it all looked OK, I used a 21/64 drill bit for the hole.

I taped out the hole for the starter bolt. The stock size of tap is 10x1.5. I chose to tap it 3/8 and I got Grade 8 hardend bolts, since I hate it when a starter bolt breaks. I used a extension with a piece of metal wedged in it so I could get a longer reach on it.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #74, 06-27-2004 03:06 AM
      With the first bolt in place, line up the starter again. And you want to be close to the flywheel, as you can use shims if you are too close, but if you are too far there is nothing you can do.
Then tighten the first bolt and have someone hold it in place and drill the second hole.

Tapping the second hole is easier from the other side.

Both hole drilled and tapped



Spyhunter (kim@designisadditive.com) MSG #75, 06-27-2004 03:33 AM
      Excellent write-up and progress pics. I know its hard to remember to take pix while in the middle of a job. Nice to see pictures of the starter relocation, as I'd never been able to find pix before. +



AusFiero (jim@jadeweb.com.au) MSG #76, 06-27-2004 03:55 AM
      Looking good?



destroy MSG #77, 06-27-2004 04:55 AM
      sweet, looks like you've put alot of work into that Great pix too! +

topcat (tconey01@att.net) MSG #78, 06-27-2004 06:30 AM
      Great write up on the starter relocation. I can hardly wait to see it all back together.



1MohrFiero MSG #79, 06-27-2004 10:53 AM
      Thanks for the starter pics. I always wondered what this looked like. Keep going. Great job.



Formula88 MSG #80, 06-27-2004 11:57 AM
      For people who are interested, Rodney sells a drill jig for drilling the starter holes on the 3.4. It takes the guesswork out of locating the holes.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #81, 06-27-2004 03:59 PM
      New Comp Cam Lifters, Pushrods, Roller tiped rocker arms
I scored a good deal on ebay for the set

the old 3.4L valve covers, just on there to keep dust out

I used a magnet to pull out the old lifters

The new lifters and Hardend pushrods

I soaked the lifters in oil first, before I put them in

The old rocker arms, They look so cheap

The new Roller tipped

Valve lash adjusted, installed and the new valve covers on.



Black-Azz-GT (chris@hawkscay.tv) MSG #82, 06-27-2004 04:09 PM
      Lookin great.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #83, 06-27-2004 04:14 PM
      Middle intake on

You need to use the 3.4L injectors as they are 17lbs-per-hr as apossed to the stock 2.8L at 15lbs-per-hr

I redid my whole harness in blue to get rid of the old brittle wireloom/tape




Solo2 MSG #84, 06-27-2004 04:29 PM
      This part & price list could be used as your guide. It help many forum members!I


Item Description Part # Cost Vendor Comments
Powermax 2030 Camshaft and lifter kit 254122 $169.95 Summit Racing CRN-254122
Valve Springs 99848-12 $64.99 Summit Racing CRN-99848-12
Retainers 99915-12 $50.39 Summit Racing CRN-99915-12
Valve Stems Locks 99041-1 $9.50 Summit Racing CRN-99041-1
Pushrods 25621-12 $98.69 Summit Racing CRN-25621-12
Gold Race Rockers - 1.6 ratio 25759-12 $318.95 Summit Racing CRN-25759-12
Adj. Fuel Pressure Regulator - Holley 512-501 $83.95 Summit Racing HLY-512-501
17 lb. Fuel Injectors - Accel 150617 $173.69 Summit Racing ACC-150617
True Roller Double - Cloyes 220-9-3137 $94.99 Jegs 02209-3137 Chevy V6, 2.8L, 1980-91
Head Stud Bolt Kit 233-4003 $75.39 Summit Racing ARP-233-4003
Oil Pump - High Volume M95HV $57.86 City Motor Supply Melling High Volume Oil Pump
Oil Pump Screen 95S3 $7.46 City Motor Supply
Bore V6 Throttle Body & Plenum - 57mm N/A $120.00 Darrell Morse TB Bored to 57mm
Port Middle and Lower Plenum N/A $325.00 Darrell Morse
Sub. $1,650.81


smartaxel (jamesdnye@gmail.com) MSG #85, 06-27-2004 04:33 PM
      Very cool write-up. Been watching this one on and off.

I just want to make one "be careful" comment. I've found a lot of the colored wire-loom to be easly melted/flammable. I believe they sell a specific high temp wire loom. I used Red loom on an 85 GT I rebuilt and the stuff literally melted off and burned on the exhaust manifolds. Besides stinking, it was a major fire hazard. I went back to the old OEM brittle stuff and it didnt melt. Just a head-up. You may want to make sure you have the high temp stuff.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #86, 06-27-2004 10:08 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Solo2:

This part & price list could be used as your guide. It help many forum members!I


Item Description Part # Cost Vendor Comments
Powermax 2030 Camshaft and lifter kit 254122 $169.95 Summit Racing CRN-254122
Valve Springs 99848-12 $64.99 Summit Racing CRN-99848-12
Retainers 99915-12 $50.39 Summit Racing CRN-99915-12
Valve Stems Locks 99041-1 $9.50 Summit Racing CRN-99041-1
Pushrods 25621-12 $98.69 Summit Racing CRN-25621-12
Gold Race Rockers - 1.6 ratio 25759-12 $318.95 Summit Racing CRN-25759-12
Adj. Fuel Pressure Regulator - Holley 512-501 $83.95 Summit Racing HLY-512-501
17 lb. Fuel Injectors - Accel 150617 $173.69 Summit Racing ACC-150617
True Roller Double - Cloyes 220-9-3137 $94.99 Jegs 02209-3137 Chevy V6, 2.8L, 1980-91
Head Stud Bolt Kit 233-4003 $75.39 Summit Racing ARP-233-4003
Oil Pump - High Volume M95HV $57.86 City Motor Supply Melling High Volume Oil Pump
Oil Pump Screen 95S3 $7.46 City Motor Supply
Bore V6 Throttle Body & Plenum - 57mm N/A $120.00 Darrell Morse TB Bored to 57mm
Port Middle and Lower Plenum N/A $325.00 Darrell Morse
Sub. $1,650.81

This can be used as my guide for what? To empty my wallet?
Those parts are expensive and this is supposed to be a cheap swap.
Besides all those parts are not very matched up, first of all if you went with those mods you would need bigger injectors than 17. If you get a new cam most of the time you don't need the 1.6 rockers, as you get the lift from thew new cam.

Just my .02

Formula88 MSG #87, 06-27-2004 10:13 PM
      Be careful with the blue plastic wire loom. Some of them are not very heat tolerant and could melt in the Fiero engine bay. It gets mighty hot in there.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #88, 06-28-2004 02:38 AM
      Well tommorrow I guess I get to play with FIRE to find out just how heat tolerant it relly is.
....where did I put my lighter


jimmybpei (jimmyb@pei.sympatico.ca) MSG #89, 06-28-2004 08:31 AM
      i am doing a 3.1 conversion ... but i have a 2.8 block that is bored 30 over wit a set of big valve heads that are bowled ported and polished. the question is .... is this almost the same as your stock 3.4, or should i use a 3.4 for the next project to be better off

thanks jimmyb



MarkJPana (markjpana@comcast.net) MSG #90, 06-28-2004 08:53 AM
      i have an engine coming to my house in an hour, and i dont have the bolts to hold it on the stand, anyone care to tell me what size and thread i need?

Solo2 MSG #91, 06-28-2004 07:34 PM
      First of all if and with the 3.4L conversion majority of the forum members know that just throwing in the 3.4L without any mods would be very disappointing to say the least, 25hp max. is not much gain without the higher lift, larger injectors, and porting the heads and intake to gain horsepower in the upper 180's to 190's hp range.

Just swapping in the used 3.4L is a poorman's hp gain over just swapping in a used 2.8L. Majority of the forum members only do the swap knowing that the gains would be +40hp to make it a worth while project with the above mention mods. They are always looking for and wanting to break the 200hp mark.

BTW, Both the 260H cam w/1.5 ratio rockers is very similar to the 2030 cam with 1.6 ratio rockers.
Secondly, only these mods with the exception of carbing the 3.4L will you be able to get to the 200hp mark. That is a far cry than the stock 160hp mark.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #92, 06-28-2004 07:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jimmybpei:

i am doing a 3.1 conversion ... but i have a 2.8 block that is bored 30 over wit a set of big valve heads that are bowled ported and polished. the question is .... is this almost the same as your stock 3.4, or should i use a 3.4 for the next project to be better off

thanks jimmyb

The 3.4 block is a different bore and has webbing for strength

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 06-29-2004).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #93, 06-29-2004 01:22 AM
      This plug caused me the MOST trouble.
It is a plug you need to take out of the 3.4 and replace with the temp sensor from the 2.8. (pic of the 2.8 sensor you need,see post right below)
It is smaller than a 3/8 ratchet, so I had to grind down an extention, but I broke that three times, then I tried a craftsman extention and broke that too, I ended up sticking a magnet on the head and drilling it out. I put in the sensor and just put in a broken sensor on the other side, instead of a plug, so I could get it out if I ever wanted. Or just leave in the 3.4 sensor.
Snap-on sells a tool made for this for $12.95 so If you ever do this type of swap I recomend getting this socket. (you can order online) I just did not have time to wait and destroyed the plug trying. Most come out no problem, just not mine.

Here is the plug


This sensor on the 3.4 is not used and can be left in



87FieroGT (fiero4jc@yahoo.com) MSG #94, 06-29-2004 11:04 AM
      Your project is looking great. Can't wait to see the final product. Just wanted to let you know that that from Temp Sensor is not the right plug for the temp guage. You should look for a Temp Sender which looks like this.

The electrical plug for it looks like this.

I hope this helps you out so that you have a working temp guage.



Liquid-Reality (mobile@madisoncountymo.com) MSG #95, 06-29-2004 11:54 AM
      So do we have picture of the motor complete?

Liquid-Reality (mobile@madisoncountymo.com) MSG #96, 06-29-2004 11:56 AM
      Did you set this up for a turbo application?

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #97, 06-29-2004 08:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 87FieroGT:

Your project is looking great. Can't wait to see the final product. Just wanted to let you know that that from Temp Sensor is not the right plug for the temp guage. You should look for a Temp Sender which looks like this.

The electrical plug for it looks like this.

I hope this helps you out so that you have a working temp guage.

So I should use the one off of the 2.8 then?


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #98, 06-29-2004 08:29 PM
      There is a adapter for the oil sender if you have A/C.
You can get one at Pep Boys, MotorMite# 43228, it is labeled 5/16" to 1/4".

This plug is where the above adapter goes, a 1/4in extention fits the hole perfect

I also had to drill out this bracket, I don't know if all are like this, but it was for me.
The drill bit is pointing at the hole I had to drill to make bigger.

This is where the bracket goes. (You can see the old sensor that I used as a plug)


Since I had an 87, so I have heard, and I just used the 3.4L oil pan with IMPACT PERSUASION
The motor mount hits the pan, so I hit the pan (with a hammer), now it all fits. Paint's still wet, thus the darker color

I also bypassed the throtle body coolent tubes. (Not needed for the swap) They are to keep the throtle body from iceing up, but here is Vegas, ice is something you put in a drink, not something that happens outside.
I just used the same rubber hoses that were there and hooked one to each side.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #99, 06-29-2004 09:01 PM
      The other bracket to worry about, only if you have A/C, is the shock type motor mount. The 3.4 block does NOT have the lower left hole in it, where the lower A/C brkcket bolts to. Most people weld a nut on the back and grind down the head to fit. What I did was tap out the hole with a 12x1.75 tap, got a bolt to fit, and drilled the A/C bracket hole out for the bigger bolt. It works fine.

The distributor has to be transfered to the 3.4L block. There is a plug where it goes in. I used large channel locks to pull it out. It came out very easy. Then to line up the distributor, turn the crank to 0deg on the timing wheel, and point the rotor at the #1cyl.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #100, 06-30-2004 04:17 AM
      Here are the pics of the engine with all of the brackets minus the wireing harness and exhaust.
I'm finnaly caught up with all of my pics, this is where the engine sits as of now untill tommorrow




sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #101, 06-30-2004 04:15 PM
      All of these pics, and close to 2000 views and no one has anything to say?
Did this thread die again?


JamesCurtis (jamie.curtis@outlook.com) MSG #102, 06-30-2004 04:57 PM
      I'm in such awe that I could not muster it to reply on such a thread. With all the views it's definitely not dead, the only thing that would kill it would be you not posting any more pics. I love your swap and hope you keep puttin pictures up, it's people like me that hang in the background that are what's gettin ya 2000 views, it's obviously a well watched-over thread so keep up the good work. I'll go back to my respectable corner and watch over the thread some more .

David DeVoe (marcia.david.devoe@sbcglobal.net) MSG #103, 06-30-2004 07:47 PM
      I think a lot of us are following your progress, just not saying a lot. I check this thread every few days, and am hoping you'll keep it going right thru install and roadtest. Looks real clean and neat and oh yeah.......colorful.

Fiero5 MSG #104, 06-30-2004 07:59 PM
      WOW!!!
That engine looks sweet!
Great job! Love this thread.
Keep up the great work and post more pics when you can



topcat (tconey01@att.net) MSG #105, 06-30-2004 08:11 PM
      How much longer before you anticipate installing it in the car, and are you doing anything special to the engine bay before installing? The engine looks really great. It really looks like a show piece. Great job

Fastback 86 MSG #106, 06-30-2004 09:19 PM
      Thats one crazy dip stick you've got there. Mine is a straight tube and stick, shorter than the 2.8 dipstick, and no twists in it. On the other hand, I don't get the easy grab handle, I get a llttle loop thing. What year is your 3.4 again?

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #107, 06-30-2004 09:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fastback 86:

Thats one crazy dip stick you've got there. Mine is a straight tube and stick, shorter than the 2.8 dipstick, and no twists in it. On the other hand, I don't get the easy grab handle, I get a llttle loop thing. What year is your 3.4 again?

My 3.4L is a '95, the dip stick just came with it.

Thank for the comments guys/gals, It's just that no one says much, so the thread gets droped off the pages quick. I did not know if people actually looked/read it at all or just stopped due to loading times on slow internet connections, or if the 3.4L swaps have been done to death.

Thanks for the encouragement.



Black-Azz-GT (chris@hawkscay.tv) MSG #108, 06-30-2004 09:54 PM
      Like I've said before. It looks really good.

Are you mating it to a standard or auto?

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #109, 06-30-2004 10:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by topcat:

How much longer before you anticipate installing it in the car, and are you doing anything special to the engine bay before installing? The engine looks really great. It really looks like a show piece. Great job

I anticipate it everyday But it SHOULD be back in a couple of days

 
quote
Originally posted by Black-Azz-GT:

Are you mating it to a standard or auto?

Standard.....if you caught it in an earlier post, I even said the part # for the FLYWHEEL that I had to get to put it in.
The 3.4L started its life out as an auto and in a camaro, so it will be much happier now



Fastback 86 MSG #110, 06-30-2004 11:48 PM
      Hmm mines a '95 also. Interesting.

Liquid-Reality (mobile@madisoncountymo.com) MSG #111, 07-01-2004 12:19 AM
      I will give you $1000 for the motor

1MohrFiero MSG #112, 07-01-2004 08:47 PM
      Time for an update? Gonna get it in this weekend?



Black-Azz-GT (chris@hawkscay.tv) MSG #113, 07-01-2004 08:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

Man that looks great. I hope that you where able to fit headers into your budget. This is one of the sweatest looking 60* pushrod builds I've seen. THANKS



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #114, 07-01-2004 10:50 PM
      I found out that one of my motor...errr......trans mounts was broke. I have heard that the 3.4L will break mounts anyway, so I used an old racing trick to fix/improve my mount.
the top bracket broke off, so I knocked out the stud, drilled a hole through the rubber and the back, got a hardend bolt long enough and a thick washer. I also cut a hole in the back of the heat sheild so that I could get to the bolt. When I drilled the rubber, being soft, the hole came out a little smaller than the bit, perfect, nice tight fit. The pics below will explain it all.


The last thing that I had to do pertaining to the 3.4L swap. The bottom rightmost bolt hole in the 3.4L block is threaded, where as the 2.8L is NOT. The threads have to be drilled out so the bolt can pass through and go into the threads on the transmission. I used a 1/2in bit, which was about the size of the hole on the 2.8L

Still with the threads

After it has been drilled


I'm going to try to get it on the cradle tommorrow, then exhaust and the wireing harness.
And no budget for headers, I did port port out the stock ones though. (as seen in an earlier post, this thread)



NotAFieroAnyLonger (stelebla@aol.com) MSG #115, 07-02-2004 09:57 AM
      Are the 2.8L HO head's the same as the 3.4L head's..??

Great write up and picture's... I have been following, just not saying much!

Steve



Black-Azz-GT (chris@hawkscay.tv) MSG #116, 07-02-2004 10:15 AM
      They are not the same. You keep the 3.4 heads as I beleive the flow better.



Fierobsessed (nstarfiero@aol.com) MSG #117, 07-03-2004 12:40 AM
      It's kinda ironic. I was reading this post through yesterday and noting all the stuff you did so far and whatnot. Anyway to make a long story short. This morning on the way to work, my 2.8 started to make ALOT of noise, BAD NOISE. Knocking. So while I was at work I thaught about your buildup and decided what the heck, If Im going to throw another motor in; Why not a 3.4? So at around lunch time I went on Car-part.com and looked up 3.4's and there was one not too far from home. So I very cautiously drove my car home. I never let my engine above 1500 RPM's because of the HORRENDUS noise it would make, I drove 30 miles and the noises kept getting louder and louder. I cannot believe I made it home, but I did. So anyway I got in the truck, picked up the 3.4 drove home, stripped it down to the essentials, put it on a stand and drilled the starter holes. I should have it in tomarrow and driving. I'ts so strange that I was sitting here about 24 hours ago, reading this thread thinking I would never have to do this myself, yet now theres a 3.4 In my garage drilled for the Fiero. And tomarrow I will get to see what its got. The 2.8's performance Is still so fresh in my mind. I know I will get a heck of a kick with the 3.4! Thanks for the buildup thread! Your strategy for drilling the starter worked beautifully for me. Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you.

STRATOHACKER (stratohacker@aol.com) MSG #118, 07-03-2004 12:42 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Black-Azz-GT:

They are not the same. You keep the 3.4 heads as I beleive the flow better.


Actually all the large valve iron heads are the same, the aluminum 3.4 heads do flow better but you can not use the Fiero intake.
Great thread by the way brings back lot of memories from the last year for me.
Keep up the good work your almost there.




sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #119, 07-03-2004 05:30 AM
      Here is another mod I did. I cut out part of the gaurd on the transmission, so I can slide it out with out removing the starter.
It was allready broke, so I just cut that section out.

and how it sits as of tonight.



1MohrFiero MSG #120, 07-03-2004 08:26 AM
      It is a thing of beauty! Sigh, you're going to make me paint my transmission while it is out aren't you?

bobmarshall (ram0672@verizon.net) MSG #121, 07-04-2004 10:47 PM
      I am impressed at the amount of detail you put into this swap. It really shows on the final project. Great Job. I did notice that you have not installed your coolant crossover pipe. You probably are already aware of this but just in case you aren't, make sure you install that coolant pipe before you install the engine. In order to install the pipe you have to remove the upper A/C compressor bracket in order to get the pipe in place. If you don't do it now you will mess up the great job you have done on the engine. I just finished replacing my leaking pipe with one of Rodney's SS units. It took me over 18 hours of work to get the pipe in on an installed engine. It would have been easier to drop the entire drivetrain. If you get a replacement unit from Rodney make sure you ask him if the bracket needs to be bent on your application.

Again, great job on the swap.



Azriel MSG #122, 07-05-2004 01:31 AM
      I like the colors you chose. I just go buy tractor paint when I paint an engine. I mix half a pint of aluminum with a quart of any color and get a really nice looking metallic. Last time I did it, it came out powder blue. Don't try that with red. it looks pink no matter how little aluminum you use. =P

Fierobsessed (nstarfiero@aol.com) MSG #123, 07-05-2004 02:17 AM
      As Im finishing up my 3.4 swap (3 days!) I can attest to the detail he went into about this swap. EVERY DETAIL IS TRUE. Take my word on it. Not one issue that he stated did not become just that, an issue. I have one detail I must add. If you plan on putting a 3.4 in any 85-86 Fiero, you have to use the Fiero's oil pan as well as the Fiero's timing cover. Or else. Also, be careful not to tighten the starter too much or it will break the casing off the starter. I'll let you know what the performance is like tomarrow, The 2.8 Is still fresh in my mind, I hope the 3.4 friggen boogies, these past 3 days have been hard work.

Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #124, 07-05-2004 12:29 PM
      I'm just wondering why you kept the TB metal lines on the engine if you bypassed them at the thermostat housing???

Fierobsessed (nstarfiero@aol.com) MSG #125, 07-05-2004 09:57 PM
      Took it out for a spin today. WOW. thats all I can say. This engine was a HUGE improvment over the fully match ported 2.8 w/compucam 2030 with ported exhaust manifolds. This Stock 3.4 motor is a Torque monster. Idling in first at 1000 RPM's, you just bury the throttle and it takes off like crazy. I LOVE it now. The only thing that is modified is the lower and middle intakes are gasket matched to eachother and the exhaust manifolds are hogged out. The torque is great, but the engine STRUGGLES to get air in after 4500. I think a custom manifold is in order. The Camaro injectors seem to be perfect for the 2.8's computer so far. I was debaiting on putting in the Compucam 2030 into the 3.4, but after driving the car with the stock cam I realized that that would have been a BIG mistake. The engine has a hard time breathing at 4500 with the stock cam, so at least the performance is good from 3K-4K. The compucam attempts to shift the power band up to where the engine actually can't breathe well. But now I am ecstactic. Again, thank you for this thread. Its like a master refrence for 3.4 swapping.

BTW, 5 quarts with the PF52 Oil filter. ;p

Fastback 86 MSG #126, 07-05-2004 10:53 PM
      3.4 is pretty cool huh? I thought about a cam too, but KEV and I talked about it and came to the same conclusion as you as well as some other conclusions. Now we just need to get it more air. I'm counting on Francis T coming through with a replacement middle/upper plenum that flows better. Or maybe I'll just save for forced induction...or maybe both

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #127, 07-05-2004 11:47 PM
      I did install the coolent crossover pipe, and yes I found out that the front bracket had to come off after the exhaust manifold was on.

I forgot my camera today so no pics as to the progress. I got most of the exhuast, heatsheilds, wireing harness, alternator, coolent crossover pipe, coil, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, egr(including the metal disk for the egr) done today. It takes a little longer to assemble when everything is painted, as not ot scratch it.

I'm glad to see that all of these pics have helped out. I was trying to get as many as I could of different things, so people could use them as a reference, to compare the 2.8L stuff to the 3.4L stuff, to see if your missing a bracket, to see where one goes, etc.....



85LAMB (linck777@netzero.com) MSG #128, 07-06-2004 12:02 AM
      sardonyx247

I just wanted to compliment you on a great write up you definetly get a + from me and I think we should all give you a + for this tread. Keep up the good work and please keep posting pictures.
I know we all want to know your experience on the first drive.


Kohburn MSG #129, 07-06-2004 10:22 AM
      absolute work of art..

especially since i did the same basic thing a couple times

but makes me wonder - am i the only person that does fiero engine swaps/trans swaps/ clutch jobs . out the top without dropping the craddle?

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #130, 07-06-2004 10:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Kohburn:

absolute work of art..

especially since i did the same basic thing a couple times

but makes me wonder - am i the only person that does fiero engine swaps/trans swaps/ clutch jobs . out the top without dropping the craddle?

We did the clutch on my wifes Fiero from the top.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #131, 07-08-2004 12:26 AM
      This is where I started today

Progress throughout the day.

Waiting to go in the Fiero.




Toddster (toddamelio@gmail.com) MSG #132, 07-08-2004 12:33 AM
      Sar,

OH NO!!!!!

After ALLLLLLLL that work and you are just going to throw those dirty old spindles and axles in there without so much as a cleaning?

Come on man, grab some plumbers tape from the local hardware store and put a shine on those axles.

Fastback 86 MSG #133, 07-08-2004 12:36 AM
      Thats gonna cost you points at the WestFest show, not having you're axles powdercoated!

Looking very nice! Hurry up and get it back in the car, only a week and a half till WestFest!

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #134, 07-08-2004 01:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fastback 86:

Thats gonna cost you points at the WestFest show, not having you're axles powdercoated!

Looking very nice! Hurry up and get it back in the car, only a week and a half till WestFest!

Do you know how much a PITA it would be to powdercoat axles? First you would have to get an oven BIG enough, then strip EVERYTHING off that could not withstand HIGH baking temps for extended periods of time.
I also did not paint anything else on the car either.
Besides my axles will be spinning so fast that I don't want paint flying off.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #135, 07-08-2004 02:28 AM
      Last Pics before being taken out to my waiting Fiero.

Being taken out of the shop

Going in.
This went about a different way. with the cradle on a pallet instead of just the forks, it didn't fit. As you can see in the next pic.
So instead we set the cradle on the ground, picked up the back of the body with the forklift, slowly wheeled the body over the engine(2nd pic down), set it down over the engine on jack stands, picked up the pallet and slowly lifted the cradle into the Fiero.

As it sits tonight. With just hooking up hoses, wires, etc...left to do.



Fastback 86 MSG #136, 07-08-2004 03:21 AM
      Looks good Vegas! Almost done! You're gonna love that 3.4. Get any bugs worked out quick and get that registration, WestFest is only a week and a half away!

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #137, 07-08-2004 09:26 PM
      pics of today during reassambly

Well I'm off to go finsh it. time permitting



Fastback 86 MSG #138, 07-08-2004 11:46 PM
      Hope time permits! I want to see you in the Chat tonight telling us how much you like the 3.4 and driving the car again!

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #139, 07-11-2004 12:27 AM
      Here is something I missed.
make sure to put in a NEW O-ring on the distributor, and gasket too.

One last pic before trying to start it up



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #140, 07-11-2004 12:42 AM
      IT'S ALIVE
It took a little while to get started. The distributor was 180deg and one tooth out of phase, the starter had to be reshimed (added a couple), and I need a new battery.
The paint on the exhaust manifolds and the anti-seize compond sure smoked off.
Here is a video of the first run and all the smoke.
It is a 10meg file, but if you loaded all of these pics you should be OK
http://www.lasvegasfieroclub.com/3.4L_swap/FirstRun.AVI

I won't get to drive it untill tommorrow. but hey it runs.



Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #141, 07-11-2004 01:29 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

IT'S ALIVE
It took a little while to get started. The distributor was 180deg and one tooth out of phase, the starter had to be reshimed (added a couple), and I need a new battery.
The paint on the exhaust manifolds and the anti-seize compond sure smoked off.
Here is a video of the first run and all the smoke.
It is a 10meg file, but if you loaded all of these pics you should be OK
http://www.lasvegasfieroclub.com/3.4L_swap/FirstRun.AVI

I won't get to drive it untill tommorrow. but hey it runs.

Yes!

Always glad to hear a success story!

When I first started mine, my distributor was one tooth off. The timing was greatly retarded. Lit the manifolds up, nicely.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-11-2004).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #142, 07-11-2004 01:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

The timing was greatly retarded.

Don't you hate it when your timing is stupid


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #143, 07-11-2004 02:37 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 85LAMB:

sardonyx247

I just wanted to compliment you on a great write up you definetly get a + from me and I think we should all give you a + for this tread. Keep up the good work and please keep posting pictures.
I know we all want to know your experience on the first drive.

Thanks



Fastback 86 MSG #144, 07-11-2004 03:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


Don't you hate it when your timing is stupid

Don't get me started. I can set TDC with my eyes closed and one hand behind my back now.

Congrats! Glad to have another 3.4 on the road. You got lucky, yours didn't take 2 weeks to it to start. Now double check your flywheel and you'll be ready to go! And speaking of going, how goes it with the DMV? Are you gonna make WestFest?

Spyhunter (kim@designisadditive.com) MSG #145, 07-11-2004 03:31 PM
      Congratulations! And many thanks for the complete build thread! Much props to you for the good work and successful engine startup.

gumert (gumert@epsilongraphics.com) MSG #146, 08-10-2004 12:34 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Spyhunter:

Congratulations! And many thanks for the complete build thread! Much props to you for the good work and successful engine startup.

I second that. This thread will be a great help to me when I decide I'm done with my 2.8.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #147, 08-12-2004 04:26 PM
      I tried to make this as helpfull as possible, thats why all of the pics.
And boy are 3.4L swaps on the fast rise.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #148, 08-30-2004 03:32 AM
      Well after a new fuel pump, a new clutch release bearing, and much fighting with the DMV it is on the road....
DMV being the longest. ah the DMV sucks soooooo bad.



SoFresh-N-SoClean (lecompte7839@aol.com) MSG #149, 08-30-2004 05:44 AM
      Should paint your distubuter cap and your new battery before you install them. And get new plug wires. Just friendly advice, it looks great and it's easy.

Also Thank you sincerly for all of the pictures. About the colaboration on this thread.... I want to thank everyone comming together on this to make this thread a great one. This will be THE thread to seach for on how to do a 3.4 swap. This is definately "STICKY" material, if there is such a thing on this forum. With all the pictures and real world advice here and the 3.4 write up from this thread...http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/053814.html no one should have any problem with this upgrade.

Also swapping cams and pushrods/rockers and all that stuff isn't for everyone. It's a good size gain in torque just doing the 3.4 swap. And it's a hell of lot easier just to swap intakes and such and go. Going to this extent isn't for everyone, not everyone has the money... and the TIME! to go to this level of detail takes major amounts of time, and if you're not doing the labor yourself.... forget it. You better have plenty of money.

GREAT JOB!

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #150, 08-31-2004 03:55 PM
      Thanks,
It did take a great deal of time in cleaning, degreaseing, painting, polishing, powder coating, tapping everything, and research.
Hopefully I cut down the reaserch time part of it for everyone else.
The swap itself souldn't take much time at all. Just be sure to have all of the gaskets, seals, etc. that you are going to use/replace.
And I added the little tricks I ran across to boost HP, make things easier in the future, and a stronger mount.

One last word of advice: If you are going standard and got an auto 3.4L make sure to use flywheel bolts and not auto flexplate bolts. The flywheel bolts are longer (just under 3 cm vs 2.2 cm for the flexplate)
If you tap out all of the holes like I did, make sure to use thread locker of some kind, or you will tend to start loosing bolts.

After doing this swap it was well worth it, great sounding exhaust, quick, clean, and most of all.....
IT'S A BLAST TO DRIVE




Fastback 86 MSG #151, 08-31-2004 07:26 PM
      Glad to hear you're finally on the road with it! Told you you'd love it. Since you couldn't make WestFest, how about the Coast Run?

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #152, 09-19-2004 01:02 AM
      In case some noobs missed it.
ttt


86_FiErO_GT (camsmith2@yahoo.com) MSG #153, 09-19-2004 01:56 AM
      total cost....?

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #154, 09-19-2004 02:02 AM
      under $900 including all mods. But labor was free, since I did it myself.

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 09-25-2004).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #155, 09-28-2004 03:32 AM
      I just started another thread dealing with the automatic swap details to add to this thread. It can be found here 3.4L 93-95 camaro engine swap pics auto
It also has a few more starter relocation pics too.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #156, 10-07-2004 11:46 PM
      .

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 10-14-2004).]

m0sh_man (macantley@suddenlink.net) MSG #157, 10-28-2004 01:43 PM
      can you post a picture of what your manifolds look like now after the car has been run to temp and it burned the paint off?

matthew

02eco MSG #158, 10-28-2004 11:16 PM
      Did someone name Kevin e-mail me files regarding this swap?

shawnkfl (kmn9312@knology.net) MSG #159, 11-03-2004 05:13 PM
      how much would you charge for a copy of those pics on a cd?? i'd love to have them for reference

Solo2 MSG #160, 11-03-2004 08:55 PM
      "Did someone name Kevin e-mail me files regarding this swap?"

Yes I did!

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #161, 11-03-2004 11:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by m0sh_man:

can you post a picture of what your manifolds look like now after the car has been run to temp and it burned the paint off?

matthew

I will have to get a pic in the daylight.

 
quote
Originally posted by shawnkfl:

how much would you charge for a copy of those pics on a cd?? i'd love to have them for reference

I could put all of the full size pics (3MegaPixel, 2720 x 2040 Pixels) on a CD for .....hows $10 shipped sound?



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #162, 11-05-2004 03:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by m0sh_man:

can you post a picture of what your manifolds look like now after the car has been run to temp and it burned the paint off?

matthew

Some of it has come off, but it still has a blue tint to it.

Another pic of the engine in the Fiero.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #163, 12-05-2004 01:18 PM
      .

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 12-08-2004).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #164, 03-09-2005 06:24 AM
      I see people asking all kinds of questions about the 3.4L swap so a bump to those who missed this.



88fieroformula (michael_nikkel@yahoo.com) MSG #165, 03-09-2005 12:47 PM
      Wow, your engine is so nice and clean. Mine is at home waiting for me to get started on it. Nice work. Thanks for alla the pics, they should come in very useful as I begin my swap.



mmeyer86gt/gtp (deepbluez98@yahoo.com) MSG #166, 03-11-2005 02:45 AM
      Great work. But you spent a lot of time on the engine and powdercoating all the eingine dres parts. but you missed a lot of key parts that i know i look for. engine cradle, a arms, BATTERY TRAY RUST WTF. All in all love the color and it sucks your paint is falling off your manifolds. It will fall off your egr valve too, it did to me. Great job. I am working on a timeing issue my self at the moment.

88fieroformula (michael_nikkel@yahoo.com) MSG #167, 03-13-2005 08:18 PM
      ***Bump***

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #168, 03-19-2005 07:08 AM
      The paint on my rear control arms is not bad anyway, it is just dirt in those pics. They cleaned up nicely and are black again.



88gtNewb (fastfiero5@hotmail.com) MSG #169, 04-08-2005 12:08 AM
      Wow, just saw this. Very clean install, and good documentation for people like me looking to do a 3.4 swap.
Kudos to you!


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #170, 04-08-2005 09:12 PM
      Thanks




sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #171, 07-26-2005 11:59 PM
      If this thread has helped anyone please post comments.

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 07-27-2005).]

fierolover87 (mikejohnson1184@gmail.com) MSG #172, 07-27-2005 01:53 PM
      Right now I'm serving a mission for the LDS church in IL., but as soon as I get home to Las Vegas in a year, I'd love to get together with you all and buy another fiero and do this to it. Man I've always loved all four of the fieros I had, and when I get home, I hope I can get together with ya'll.

-Mike

fierolover87 (mikejohnson1184@gmail.com) MSG #173, 07-27-2005 01:55 PM
      By the way, on the 14th-15th, there's gonna be an auto show here in my area here in IL. that I will be attending. If anyone is there on the 15th, I'll be hard to miss. Just look for two guys in white shirts and ties with black nametags.

-Mike

BrewCheese (hyhy4u@hotmail.com) MSG #174, 07-27-2005 06:48 PM
      Hey FieroLover were in IL??

Thanks,
Jason


NewGT (kmhammer1@gmail.com) MSG #175, 07-27-2005 07:59 PM
      Sardonyx

Just completed a 3.4 swap using a 70K mile 1995 Firebird 3.4 engine. I printed out your build and used it during the entire swap. It really helped tremendously.

I used Rodney's Jig for the starter bolt alignment - it was dead on - it shimmed exactly as it was with the 2.8 and the gear teeth meshed perfectly the first time. If anybody decides to do this, just remember to use plenty of cutting oil (I used 3in1 oil) to keep the drill bits and taps from binding and cracking. I also recommend using a Melling high-flow oil pump - it is available from Autozone for less money than the stock pump for some reason - you'll need to use the 3.4 syphon tube as the 2.8 tube is a smaller diameter.

The part number for the flywheel was a particular lifesaver as I did not have a neutrally balanced flywheel.

Some other helpful advice I learned - remove the rear main seal by drilling a small hole into the flat of the seal (be careful of the bearing surface) tap a screw into the hole and give a yank with a pair of pump pliers - it comes right out! You can drive the seal in easily with a short length of 3" Schedule 40 PVC pipe a block of wood and a hammer. The pipe fits perfectly over the seal.

I ultrasonic cleaned all of the Firebird fuel injectors, ported my exhaust headers and ports, gasket matched the entire intake from the throttle body to the heads and installed 1.6 ratio rockers during the build - I figure the engine should be putting out 180-190 HP. I also used Rodney's Poly Motor and Trans Mounts - their quality is top-notch. Don't forget to buy his brass adapter for the oil pressure sending unit, it's only a couple of dollars. A new clutch assembly went in also. A new timing chain, chain damper, water pump, distributor, Accel 8.8 ignition wires and coil were used also.

Finally, check your 3.4 carefully - after reassembling mine and putting it back in the Fiero, I cranked it with the ignition wire to distributor disconnected to build up pressure and lubricate everything prior to starting up - and oil came pouring out from between the trans and engine rear. I was working in 95 weather most of the time and never noticed that an oil galley plug was missing from the rear of the engine - I spent an entire day pulling the motor out, fixing a new plug and reinstalling. My recommendation is to pressure check everything using a drill to drive the oil pump while the engine is still on the stand - can save a lot of unnecessary work.

[This message has been edited by NewGT (edited 07-27-2005).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #176, 07-28-2005 12:51 AM
      You don't need a starter jig. I have done two without, both came out perfect.
And for the adapter for the oil sender if you have A/C.
You can get one at Pep Boys Auto Parts, MotorMite# 43228, it is labeled 5/16" to 1/4".


fierolover87 (mikejohnson1184@gmail.com) MSG #177, 07-28-2005 01:14 PM
      Jason (BrewCheese),
Here's the info from NIFE on the show.

August 14-15, 2005 15th annual Indian Uprising All Pontiac Car Show sponsored by Cruisin' Tiger's GTO Club at the Kane County Events Center (on Kirk Road/Farnsworth just south of Route 38).

Mike

goatnipples2002 (goatnipples2002@gmail.com) MSG #178, 07-31-2005 04:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

This plug caused me the MOST trouble.
It is a plug you need to swap with a sensor on the other head.
It is smaller than a 3/8 ratchet, so I had to grind down an extention, but I broke that three times, then I tried a craftsman extention and broke that too, I ended up sticking a magnet on the head and drilling it out. I put in the sensor and just put in a broken sensor on the other side so I could get it out if I ever wanted.
Snap-on sells a tool made for this for $12.95 so If you ever do this type of swap I recomend getting this socket. (you can order online) I just did not have time to wait and destroyed the plug trying. Most come out no problem, just not mine.

Here is the plug


And the sensor

I'm about to do this swap in a couple of months and just am trying to work out ALL the details. Now why did you transfer this sensor and plug if you didn't need it anyway?

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #179, 07-31-2005 07:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by goatnipples2002:


I'm about to do this swap in a couple of months and just am trying to work out ALL the details. Now why did you transfer this sensor and plug if you didn't need it anyway?

Well the sensor on the 3.4L you can leave in to fill the hole if you want. But the plug you have to pull out. It is where a temp sensor goes. (this sensor controls the temp guage and the temp light) it is the sensor by the coil in the corner of the head on the 2.8L. On the 3.4L it has a plug, so you need to transfer the sensor from the 2.8L to where the pulg is on the 3.4L.



goatnipples2002 (goatnipples2002@gmail.com) MSG #180, 07-31-2005 11:49 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:
Well the sensor on the 3.4L you can leave in to fill the hole if you want. But the plug you have to pull out. It is where a temp sensor goes. (this sensor controls the temp guage and the temp light) it is the sensor by the coil in the corner of the head on the 2.8L. On the 3.4L it has a plug, so you need to transfer the sensor from the 2.8L to where the pulg is on the 3.4L.

I am going to be using a brand new 3.4 shortblock from napa and the heads from 1 of my 2.8s. Since I am using the 2.8 heads with the sensor could I skip that step? Is there another sensor in the block like a cam or crank sensor that I will have to plug? I will be working with a brand new bottom end so I am not sure what will come with it.

I heard about having to drill out a hole in the bellhousing, did you do that? Do you have pics of what hole to drill out?


Fastback 86 MSG #181, 07-31-2005 01:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by goatnipples2002:


I am going to be using a brand new 3.4 shortblock from napa and the heads from 1 of my 2.8s. Since I am using the 2.8 heads with the sensor could I skip that step? Is there another sensor in the block like a cam or crank sensor that I will have to plug? I will be working with a brand new bottom end so I am not sure what will come with it.

I heard about having to drill out a hole in the bellhousing, did you do that? Do you have pics of what hole to drill out?

The 2.8 head won't have a plug there, and may even still have the sensor in it. No plug to remove, just make sure the sensor is there and working.

There are both a cam and crank sensor on the 3.4 block. The cam sensor is just below where the thermostat will go, and the crank sensor is in the side of the block near the oil filter. My 3.4 came out of a car and had the sensors in it, so I just unplugged them and left them there to fill the holes. I believe West Coast Fiero sells plugs meant to eliminate those sensors.

As for the bell housing, you shouldn't have to mess with it at all. All the work is done on the block. You will have to drill and tap new starter holes on the other side of the block (oil filter side) and, IF you are using an automatic, you will have to grind off some of the block to clear the auto tranny. Sardonyx has pictures of it a few pages back in this thread.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #182, 07-31-2005 04:40 PM
     
The last thing that I had to do pertaining to the 3.4L swap. The bottom rightmost bolt hole in the 3.4L block is threaded, where as the 2.8L is NOT. The threads have to be drilled out so the bolt can pass through and go into the threads on the transmission. I used a 1/2in bit, which was about the size of the hole on the 2.8L

Still with the threads

After it has been drilled

[/QUOTE]

These pics were posted a few pages back.

goatnipples2002 (goatnipples2002@gmail.com) MSG #183, 07-31-2005 05:52 PM
      I will be getting the Rodney starter relocation kit, so the starter is not an issue for me. Just the little bugs that bite you in the ass. I was wondering are the timing chain, gear and cam gear the same for all 60* V6s? As far as the driveline shock is concerned do you have more detailed pictures of that install? My car DID have A/C but I yanked it. Will that matter for the driveline mounting?

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 07-31-2005).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #184, 08-01-2005 03:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by goatnipples2002:

I will be getting the Rodney starter relocation kit, so the starter is not an issue for me. Just the little bugs that bite you in the ass. I was wondering are the timing chain, gear and cam gear the same for all 60* V6s? As far as the driveline shock is concerned do you have more detailed pictures of that install? My car DID have A/C but I yanked it. Will that matter for the driveline mounting?

I think the GM crate engines 3.4L come with the starter holes allready drilled, as they sell it as an upgrade for a S10. The shock mount will bolt right up to the block useing 2 of the 3 holes. If you DON'T have A/C then just bolt it up no mod there. You don't need the starter jig, it is EASY to do without one.

I am about to start another 3.4L swap too.



goatnipples2002 (goatnipples2002@gmail.com) MSG #185, 08-01-2005 08:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:
I think the GM crate engines 3.4L come with the starter holes allready drilled, as they sell it as an upgrade for a S10. The shock mount will bolt right up to the block useing 2 of the 3 holes. If you DON'T have A/C then just bolt it up no mod there. You don't need the starter jig, it is EASY to do without one.

I am about to start another 3.4L swap too.

The gm crate 3.4 cost about 3 times as much as a napa shortblock. I have tried everyawy to get the cheapest swap and have some go fast goodies. I will be getting the spec stage 3, fidanza 8lb flywheel, and I bought an h260 for my 2.8 but will use that on the 3.4. So performance mods are nill. I just want to drive my car again. I don't want to phuk the starter holes up, I'm good at phuking things up.....it's my speciality. I have complete confidence in all the other stuff that is involved with the swap. just the little stuff was confusing.



goatnipples2002 (goatnipples2002@gmail.com) MSG #186, 08-02-2005 10:24 PM
      Thanks for the help guys I will call on your guys help when I start.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 08-08-2005).]

JKFIERO MSG #187, 10-09-2005 01:17 PM
      Seeing that I have a GT with a blown motor sitting in my yard, this thread will really come in handy.

On the 3.4s....I always hear people say to use a 93 - 95 camaro.
Will any 93 -95 3.4 work as long as it is GM?

Any 3.4 that WILL NOT work?

And one last question.
If in fact it is a 93 - 95, what would be considered TOO MUCH to pay at a junk yard?

[This message has been edited by JKFIERO (edited 10-09-2005).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #188, 10-11-2005 05:09 AM
      The 93-95 3.4 Camero/Firebird is the only car I think it came in. The GM crate is sold as an upgrade for the S-10. You want the 3.4 with the iron heads, not aluminum.

Just do what I did, call EVERY yard in the phone book. They varied in price from $400 +$50 core to >$1200. So just call around, some places won't have one, some might have a bunch. They all had different prices.



3.8 SC MSG #189, 10-23-2005 11:29 PM
      I was wondering, what car and year has the best 3.4 engine? I have heard that the FWD cars come a roller cam. Is this true? Will it make or break the swap? I just got an 87 GT and the engine is knocking. So I am going to swap it out for a 3.4.



Fastback 86 MSG #190, 10-24-2005 02:41 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.8 SC:

I was wondering, what car and year has the best 3.4 engine? I have heard that the FWD cars come a roller cam. Is this true? Will it make or break the swap? I just got an 87 GT and the engine is knocking. So I am going to swap it out for a 3.4.

Like Sardonyx was saying, the only car that ever came with the 3.4 V6 is the 1993-1995 Camaro/Firebird. They're all the same. Or, you can get the crate engine from GM, but if you put it in a Fiero, it invalidates the warranty because its supposed to be used in a RWD set up, not a FWD one. The 3.1 V6 out of the early 90s minivans had a roller cam stock. Its essentially the same swap, but you can't upgrade the cam and you have less displacement and output. Don't get a 3400 engine or any other like that out of a Grand Am or whatever, they're not even close to the same engine and will not be an easy swap like the Camaro/Firebird 3.4.

goatnipples2002 (goatnipples2002@gmail.com) MSG #191, 10-24-2005 11:54 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fastback 86:


Like Sardonyx was saying, the only car that ever came with the 3.4 V6 is the 1993-1995 Camaro/Firebird. They're all the same. Or, you can get the crate engine from GM, but if you put it in a Fiero, it invalidates the warranty because its supposed to be used in a RWD set up, not a FWD one. The 3.1 V6 out of the early 90s minivans had a roller cam stock. Its essentially the same swap, but you can't upgrade the cam and you have less displacement and output. Don't get a 3400 engine or any other like that out of a Grand Am or whatever, they're not even close to the same engine and will not be an easy swap like the Camaro/Firebird 3.4.

on the 3.1 there are more than 1...the iron head 3.1 from lumina APVs and a 3100 in grand ams. I just did the 3.1 swap and put a comp cams 260 in it. it runs like a bat out of hell.



1MohrFiero MSG #192, 11-27-2005 02:55 PM
      TTT

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #193, 01-10-2006 07:12 AM
      .

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 01-10-2006).]

Kohburn MSG #194, 01-10-2006 11:08 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by goatnipples2002:


I'm about to do this swap in a couple of months and just am trying to work out ALL the details. Now why did you transfer this sensor and plug if you didn't need it anyway?

I ground down a grade 8 bolt to a square end - inserted it into the plug and turned the wrench - came out no problems

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 01-10-2006).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #195, 01-11-2006 12:47 AM
      Getting that plug out? Was not so easy for me. I ground down an extension broke that a few times, tried a Craftsman extension, broke that a few times too. Untill it broke off in the plug flush and couldn't get that out. Had to drill it with a magnet to catch the filings. Same thing happened on the next 3.4 Swap I did too. Like I said before, it was the hardest part of the whole swap. And not being too hard the whole swap wasn't bad at all. Next time I will buy the Snap-On tool made for it, they seem to be the only ones who sell one.



Fastback 86 MSG #196, 01-11-2006 12:51 AM
      I found this square shaped tool. I don't know if it was a nail set or some other kind of tap or what, but it was only about 4 inches long and tapered. I just cut it where it tapered the the right size for the plug, then tapped it in and grabbed it with a cresent wrench and unscrewed the plug. Pretty easy once I found the tool.

goatnipples2002 (goatnipples2002@gmail.com) MSG #197, 01-11-2006 12:54 AM
      If you use fiero heads as I did then you don't have to worry about the plug.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #198, 01-11-2006 01:14 AM
      I never pulled the heads, nor did I want to. They are the same 2.8l HO heads anyway. But I agree with you that would be one way around it.

Fastback 86 MSG #199, 01-11-2006 01:32 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

I never pulled the heads, nor did I want to. They are the same 2.8l HO heads anyway. But I agree with you that would be one way around it.

Same here, plenty of work that didn't need to be done. Engine only had 39k miles, no reason to replace the head gaskets.

Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #200, 01-23-2006 09:30 PM
      Thanks for the great info! You have me really wanting to work on this swap! Way to keep us motivated! I'm using too many sentences that end in exclamation points! Help! I can't stop!

86GT3.4DOHC MSG #201, 01-24-2006 09:55 PM
      Wait, you lifted the body by the trunk latch? Lol, you better make dang sure its perfect before you try to shut the trunk. Been there, done that, I had to pop out the freeze plug and open the hole at the bottom of the trunk and reach up in there to unbolt the latch so I could get the trunk open. Best bet if it isnt, take the one off that guy in the background, I tried straightening it out, didnt work



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #202, 01-24-2006 10:22 PM
      Yes I pulled it up by the latch. About the second or third time it started to bend. I just bent it back, I might have even replaced it at one point. So many Fiero parts at the yard in Vegas I forgot what I have changed. Now I pull back the trunk carpet and use to holes allready there to lift by. When I did this swap it was my first engine swap that I did myself, Now I have done like 10 or so for the club in Vegas, not counting clutches etc...




sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #203, 02-09-2006 05:00 PM
      With all of the 3.4L swap questions I answered today, this needs to go to the top.



FieroVin (vin.latus@outlook.com) MSG #204, 03-25-2006 10:48 AM
      Thanks for the great write up. I just bought a 3.4 from a 94 Camaro with 27000 miles.

One question, for an 87 GT could I/should I use the Fiero oil pan?

Thanks again, and a + for you.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #205, 03-25-2006 01:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroVin:

Thanks for the great write up. I just bought a 3.4 from a 94 Camaro with 27000 miles.

One question, for an 87 GT could I/should I use the Fiero oil pan?

Thanks again, and a + for you.

I have an 87, I just used the 3.4L oil pan with IMPACT PERSUASION
The motor mount hits the pan, so I hit the pan (with a hammer), now it all fits. Paint's still wet, thus the darker color

I didn't test fit the Fiero pan, only the 3.4 one. Nice score on getting an engine with only 27,000 miles on it. Mine, so I was told, had 50,000 on it. But mine was VERY clean when I took it apart.



4BanGinFun (banginfun4@hotmail.com) MSG #206, 03-31-2006 06:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

This is where I started today

Progress throughout the day.

Waiting to go in the Fiero.


NIce looks like my engine... but i dont have that much blue

Gokart Mozart MSG #207, 04-30-2006 07:14 AM
      bump cuz i want to

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #208, 06-22-2006 02:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:

bump cuz i want to


Thanks


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #209, 08-15-2006 01:13 AM
      Anyone else need this info? There is always 3.4 ?s out there.

lou_dias (loudfiero@gmail.com) MSG #210, 09-29-2006 10:26 AM
      did you ever dyno it?

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #211, 09-29-2006 12:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

did you ever dyno it?


No, not yet. But I really want to. I started to look into it but then I moved. I havent looked into it yet where I am now.



Synthesis (synssins@gmail.com) MSG #212, 09-30-2006 12:29 AM
      Very nice. Gotta do this myself.

BLK 86 FSTBAK GT (nickmills77@hotmail.com) MSG #213, 09-30-2006 01:14 PM
      as soon as i find a 3.4 pushrod.... this thread will be my bible... any rewiring to do? looks like its just plug and play....

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #214, 09-30-2006 05:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BLK 86 FSTBAK GT:

as soon as i find a 3.4 pushrod.... this thread will be my bible... any rewiring to do? looks like its just plug and play....


Nope, no rewireing. Thus the beauty of this swap.


Oslo (chris@tlg-auto.com) MSG #215, 10-06-2006 03:29 AM
      Awesome thread! I am going to start this swap this winter.
Does anyone know what is the most machining that can be done to this motor in the area of boring the cylinders?

I'm sure you could do 30 over, but how much can you go?


fierosound (fierosound2@shaw.ca) MSG #216, 10-06-2006 09:55 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

and how it sits as of tonight.






I really like to see a well detailed engine coming together!! It's a thing of beauty
I'm amazed at people who can't be bothered to buy a couple cans of spray paint for an new engine!!
After all, with all that work going into it, why not make it look good?? It's be best opportunity to do so.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #217, 10-14-2006 06:15 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


I really like to see a well detailed engine coming together!! It's a thing of beauty
I'm amazed at people who can't be bothered to buy a couple cans of spray paint for an new engine!!
After all, with all that work going into it, why not make it look good?? It's be best opportunity to do so.


Yeah, paint makes everything look new, or better than new.
The only problem with paint, is that it takes more care to not scratch it. But when an engine looks good you tend to take better care of it.

I have had so many great comments on here and from people who are not into Fieros who see it.
I love gaining respect for the Fiero!!!



BLK 86 FSTBAK GT (nickmills77@hotmail.com) MSG #218, 10-16-2006 07:56 PM
      ok doing a 3.4L swap with a Automatic Tranny, Do i still need a 88 neutrally balanced flywheel?

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #219, 10-20-2006 08:04 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BLK 86 FSTBAK GT:

ok doing a 3.4L swap with a Automatic Tranny, Do i still need a 88 neutrally balanced flywheel?


No, You need an 88 neutrally balanced Flexplate.
You can get one here Partsamerica.com just look up 1988 Fiero GT V6 auto
Part Number: FRA138 $39.99




billr MSG #220, 11-28-2006 03:41 PM
      Thanks for the 3.4L pics. Looking all over the place for 3.4L info.
As for the flywheel; was there a different cank used for the '88 vs '87requiring a neutral balanced flywheel?
Also, other sites have mentioned retaining the 2.8L heads for the conversion, is that the way to go?
billr


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #221, 11-28-2006 04:25 PM
      Welcome to the forum.
Yeah the 87 vs 88 has a different crank. The 88s and 3.4s have a internaly balanced crank where the pre88s had an externaly balance crank. The earier ones have a weight on the flywheel.
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

Here are the two flywheels.
You need a neutraly balanced flywheel, The one for the '88 Fiero will work just fine.
I got mine at Partsamerica.com for only $39.99
Just set 'your car' as an '88 Fiero V6 and look up and order the $39.99 flywheel( The part# is Standard Flywheels 6500 )with a $35 core
You can order online and pick up at the store. Then take back your old flywheel the next day for the core.

The old '87 2.8L is on the left, The new ''88 2.8L flywheel is on the right. Notice the weight on the old one.


A side shot





The 2.8L Fiero heads are the same heads on the 3.4L both are the HO heads. Some say to use Fiero heads due to a plug that can be a pain to get out in the corner of the head that you have to swap with a sensor. I used the 3.4L heads.
Here is the plug


Use either heads you want but they are still the same heads.



josef644 (josef644@hotmail.com) MSG #222, 11-30-2006 10:11 PM
      sardonyx247 Not wanting to change the subject, butwhat ever happened to that Quad 4 project?
Will this 3.4 move in to a 84 4 cy 4 spd, or do I need to move up a few years and get a 2.8?
I have spent the last hour and a half reading your great thread. This is on my list of things to do!


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #223, 12-01-2006 06:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:

sardonyx247 Not wanting to change the subject, butwhat ever happened to that Quad 4 project?
Will this 3.4 move in to a 84 4 cy 4 spd, or do I need to move up a few years and get a 2.8?
I have spent the last hour and a half reading your great thread. This is on my list of things to do!


The Quad-4 project got put on hold due to me getting this GT. A little more to be done to this then back to it.
a 3.4 will go into an 84 but you will need parts from a Fiero 2.8, a V6 computer, and wireing harness.



kwagner MSG #224, 12-01-2006 06:29 PM
      Great build thread, I love all that blue

fierodeletre (b7gwap@hotmail.com) MSG #225, 12-05-2006 08:39 PM
      Sardonyx247-
dude just wanted to let you know that in putting my A/C compressor bracket back together after an exhaust manifold gasket change, I referred to your very clean, very sharp photos to get it right. once, again, great job! Oh yeah, and...bump.
Cheers
Austin



pheonix97031 (culpeppm@onid.orst.edu) MSG #226, 12-22-2006 05:20 AM
      Hey!

This looks pretty cool.... So its pretty peppy for the driving? What kinda HP are you getting out of it, any idea? Also, I am really interested in this swap, If I can get decent gas milage out of it. Have you figured out your MPG yet?

Also, I understand that you need a V6 fiero engine to do this swap? What mroe extra would you have to do, if you were going to go from a 4cy? Your swap is an automatic, how much harder would it be for a manual? The engine just bolts right on? Thats amazing..........

Great work!

[This message has been edited by pheonix97031 (edited 12-22-2006).]

pheonix97031 (culpeppm@onid.orst.edu) MSG #227, 12-23-2006 03:01 AM
      Actually, I just saw yours was a Manual. Thats good, cuz so is mine! So the old fiero transmission just bolts up to the new 3.4L engine? And the cradel doesnt need any welding, or anything to get it to attach, it just bolts right up?!?

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #228, 12-23-2006 05:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by pheonix97031:

Actually, I just saw yours was a Manual. Thats good, cuz so is mine! So the old fiero transmission just bolts up to the new 3.4L engine? And the cradel doesnt need any welding, or anything to get it to attach, it just bolts right up?!?


Yeah no welding needed.

If you went from a 4 cyl you would need EVERTHING from a 2.8 execpt the block and heads. You may be able to get a dead Fiero with a V6 for cheap or a 2.8 from someone who swaped out thiers.

The transmission just about bolts up(drill one hole, no biggie, takes less than one min) as one of the bolts threads into the tranny from the engine side and the threads just need to be drilled out of one hole on the block. (Pics posted earlier)



pheonix97031 (culpeppm@onid.orst.edu) MSG #229, 12-23-2006 02:54 PM
      I sent you a PM. could you help me out?

Hudini (hudini@tds.net) MSG #230, 01-08-2007 02:00 PM
      Uh oh, I used the '86 flexplate on my swap. I should have read this thread first. Great job on your swap.



krutter (krutter@htc.net) MSG #231, 01-14-2007 12:57 PM
      Ok. I have read a lot of the posts on the 3.4 engine swap and want to do it. I have had an 86 fiero gt automatic for two years and have finally disassembled it in the garage. This is just for fun. However as it is my first swap, I expect to learn a lot. From what I have read here is what I wanted to go with.
1. GM Crate 3.4L (I know some say this is wasting money, but I don't want to waste the time and the risk of finding a higher mileage f-body)
2. Trueleo Intake and exhaust.
3. 85-88 V6 OCELOT STAINLESS STEEL Exhaust from the Fiero Store.
4. 88 Neutrally balanced flexplat
Here is my question. With this setup, what should I do with the injectors, lifters and rockers to maximize performance/reliablity? I don't want to change the cam in the crate engine. (when I say maximize performance, I am not trying to incite any engine swaps debates, I just want to do the most I can with this setup reliably.) Also, what about performance chip? I noticed some comments about a Trueleo chip, but cannot find anything about it on their website? Do I still use the stock electronics?
Any help would be appreciated. Sardonyx247 great thread. Much appreciated.
Ken


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #232, 01-14-2007 07:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by krutter:

Ok. I have read a lot of the posts on the 3.4 engine swap and want to do it. I have had an 86 fiero gt automatic for two years and have finally disassembled it in the garage. This is just for fun. However as it is my first swap, I expect to learn a lot. From what I have read here is what I wanted to go with.
1. GM Crate 3.4L (I know some say this is wasting money, but I don't want to waste the time and the risk of finding a higher mileage f-body)
2. Trueleo Intake and exhaust.
3. 85-88 V6 OCELOT STAINLESS STEEL Exhaust from the Fiero Store.
4. 88 Neutrally balanced flexplat
Here is my question. With this setup, what should I do with the injectors, lifters and rockers to maximize performance/reliablity? I don't want to change the cam in the crate engine. (when I say maximize performance, I am not trying to incite any engine swaps debates, I just want to do the most I can with this setup reliably.) Also, what about performance chip? I noticed some comments about a Trueleo chip, but cannot find anything about it on their website? Do I still use the stock electronics?
Any help would be appreciated. Sardonyx247 great thread. Much appreciated.
Ken


For injectors use #17 or #19 injectors Fieros had #15s Camaros came with #17s some people run #19s. Without changing the cam you can get 1.6 ratio rocker arms. I got roller tipped arms or you could go all out with the full roller rockers. I also got compcams lifters and pushrods.

As far as the "trueleo intake" you can see that I don't use one. I really like the way the engraved Fiero looks and I really DON'T like the way the trueleo intake looks. You can see if I didn't care about looks I would not have painted and powdercoated everything. So I can not comment anything about thier chips or products.
THAT IS FOR ANOTHER THREAD.



krutter (krutter@htc.net) MSG #233, 01-14-2007 08:16 PM
      Thanks for the feedback. Your thread convinced me the best way for me to go is the 3.4 swap.
The only thing that I am questioning is can I pick up some additional horses with the Trueleo setup.
I would like to get 200 at the crank with simple bolt on changes.
Not that I am trying to build a rocket, but have you ever determined what the HP or 0to60 times of your setup is?


civicduty13 (civicduty13@yahoo.com) MSG #234, 03-20-2007 11:39 PM
      i just picked up a 30k mile 3.4 and will be doing this swap possibly this summer or fall sometime. I will def take pics as the progress goes along.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #235, 03-24-2007 04:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by civicduty13:

i just picked up a 30k mile 3.4 and will be doing this swap possibly this summer or fall sometime. I will def take pics as the progress goes along.


summer or fall.?.? You will want to enjoy it during the summer. It is really not a long swap. I took my time during this swap/write-up. It can be done fairly quick.



alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #236, 03-25-2007 08:48 AM
      Sardonyx,

I have a ? for you. You had mentioned that to remove the plug for the sensor there was a tool that Snap-On sells. Do you know the correct name for the tool or the part #? Thanks.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #237, 03-25-2007 06:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

Sardonyx,

I have a ? for you. You had mentioned that to remove the plug for the sensor there was a tool that Snap-On sells. Do you know the correct name for the tool or the part #? Thanks.


The name is "Socket, Pipe Plug, External" I forget the exact size, it is a little smaller than a 3/8 as I ground down a 3/8 extention(but that broke, several times)
You can measure the pulg to get the size. They sell both SAE and metric sizes.



alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #238, 03-25-2007 10:07 PM
      Thanks a million!

alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #239, 03-25-2007 10:17 PM
      Sardonyx,

I believe I have found it. It is called a "Extractor, Pipe Plug" and I believe the size would be 1/4", correct me if I am wrong. The stock number is E81 and the price is $20.70.

Thanks.


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #240, 03-26-2007 11:52 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobsessed:

The Camaro injectors seem to be perfect for the 2.8's computer so far.


So......Upgrading or reprogramming the stock ECU is not necessary then?



alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #241, 03-26-2007 01:18 PM
      No, it is not.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #242, 03-28-2007 05:11 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

Sardonyx,

I believe I have found it. It is called a "Extractor, Pipe Plug" and I believe the size would be 1/4", correct me if I am wrong. The stock number is E81 and the price is $20.70.

Thanks.


No, it is bigger than 1/4, you can use 1/4 ratchet to remove the oil sender plug but the plug on the head is between 1/4 and 3/8. I would measure it if I were you. otherwise I should know the size in a few weeks as I will be doing another 3.4 swap for someone.


alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #243, 03-28-2007 08:38 AM
      I have another ? Perhaps I misssed it. Did you have to sand down the block and other parts prior to painting. Also, what grit sandpaper did you use and what kind of paint?

Sorry for asking so much. This will be my first swap and although I am mechanically inclined, I am not much of a painter and I want to make sure I get this right the first time.

Thanks


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #244, 03-28-2007 10:54 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

I have another ? Perhaps I misssed it. Did you have to sand down the block and other parts prior to painting. Also, what grit sandpaper did you use and what kind of paint?

Sorry for asking so much. This will be my first swap and although I am mechanically inclined, I am not much of a painter and I want to make sure I get this right the first time.

Thanks


Maybe we can compare notes or I'll lend you a hand with your's Alex. I'm going to do this swap too.
Since my 2.8 broke on the way over to D7, I need an engine now and after looking at this thread it seems like the most logical thing to do rather than dump almost the same $ into rebuilding my old 2.8 from the crank out. I've located a couple of 3.4 used motors here in Tampa area and have gotten pricing on a reman. short and long block. I'm pretty intent on having this swap done in a few weeks. I'm going to order Rodney's starter drill jig because I don't trust myself to drill perfectly perpendicular holes.
I'm pretty good with painting parts though
Randy


alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #245, 03-28-2007 11:19 AM
      Randy,

I have found two motors in Orlando about 20 miles from my house. The are both between $500 and $550. I e-mailed them with a few questions about the motors. They offer a 30 day warranty on their engines. I'll keep you posted on that. The other options is to buy a crate engine. I found found one for $1895 plus 235 shipping to a business address or to a terminal drop off. If I can get away with a good used engine I can use therest of the money on newer parts like headers and accesories. I will surely be making a decision on the engine around the first week of April. Lets keep in touch.

Alex


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #246, 03-28-2007 04:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

I have another ? Perhaps I misssed it. Did you have to sand down the block and other parts prior to painting. Also, what grit sandpaper did you use and what kind of paint?

Sorry for asking so much. This will be my first swap and although I am mechanically inclined, I am not much of a painter and I want to make sure I get this right the first time.

Thanks


I didn't have to sand the block but had to cleeeeeeeeeeean it, they clean it some more, then some more, and even a little more. The engine is rough, paint should stick fine, just have to get ALL oil/grease off of it. I think cleaning everything is what took some time.

 
quote
Originally posted by randye:


and after looking at this thread it seems like the most logical thing to do rather than dump almost the same $ into rebuilding my old 2.8 from the crank out.
Randy


When I was pricing around another 2.8 or rebuild $750ish, 3.1 stroker kit $499, used 3.4 with warranty $400+$50 core.
So it was a no brainer.



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #247, 03-28-2007 06:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


When I was pricing around another 2.8 or rebuild $750ish, 3.1 stroker kit $499, used 3.4 with warranty $400+$50 core.
So it was a no brainer.


Alex and I have both found used 3.4 engines with varying warranties running about $500 here in Central Florida.

I have started pricing out complete new bearings, (main, rod and cam), new timing chain, rings, all gaskets, lifters and pushrods, and oil pump.
What I have so far looks like I could easily "refresh" a moderately worn 3.4 short block and use my old 2.8 heads, which are in good shape other than needing some valve stem seals, with an all-up cost of approx. $900 !

My broken 2.8 has all new sensors, new distributor, new coil, new FS exhaust system, new manifolds and new hoses on it, so those get recycled as well as the new water pump I just put on it.

I haven't added the cost of an 88' flex plate yet, or other "goodies" I want to add to the build, like Rodney's steel vac lines, new injectors, misc. new bolts and nuts and powder coating my upper manifold and valve covers, (and possibly 1.6 roller rockers), so the total cost is bound to go up some, but all in all this sure looks like very inexpensive swap that will keep the basic stock Fiero look I want and add a bit more performance with a reliable "fresh" engine.

Since I'm still running the 125C auto trans, It looks like I can do this entire swap "out the top" without dropping the cradle.

I can barely wait to get started!

Anything else other than paint and cleaning supplies I should add to the list??

Randy



alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #248, 03-28-2007 10:28 PM
      Bump just to keep this awesome thread up!

alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #249, 03-28-2007 10:31 PM
      I have a ? If I take my used engine an applied degreaser, can I take it to the nearest car wash and pressure wash it or is that against the law? The reason I ask is because the stuff that will come out of the engine will go in to the drain.

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #250, 03-29-2007 08:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

I have a ? If I take my used engine an applied degreaser, can I take it to the nearest car wash and pressure wash it or is that against the law? The reason I ask is because the stuff that will come out of the engine will go in to the drain.


I would think that if you're not dumping a bunch of oil and coolant down the drain it would be fine.

I see people use engine degreaser and the sprayer on the motor IN the car all the time...dunno why the motor OUT of the car should be any worse.

BTW...Don't mess around with "GUNK" brand degreaser or any of those other "cleaners". Just get yourself a few cans of the cheap store brand carb cleaner at Advance / Discount auto parts, (red & black can).
That stuff will RIP the worst grease dirt and crud off of anything....it will also strip paint so be careful...
Clean off the residue with soapy water afterwards...rinse and dry. Before you try to paint, wipe down the parts with lacquer thinner or acetone and let them air dry. If you're in a REAL big hurry, use a hairdryer or heat gun on low

This is going to be SO much fun!

Randy


GKDINC MSG #251, 03-29-2007 09:21 AM
      Save your back and drop the cradle!!
Good Luck
Gary


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #252, 03-29-2007 09:36 PM
      Yeah drop the cradle. I have pulled a duke out of the top and trust me drop the cradle.

I'll post the link again to the auto stuff too.
3.4L 93-95 camaro engine swap pics auto
It also has a few more starter relocation pics too.

If you use just carb cleaner to clean everything, better buy stock in it as it goes soooo fast, does work great though.
I used the gunk NON-FOAMY stuff and a brush. works preaty well.



civicduty13 (civicduty13@yahoo.com) MSG #253, 03-29-2007 09:57 PM
      i have a good running 2.8 in my car right now so im in no hurry to get the swap done. I also have a body and interior im putting together this spring so money is a lil tight bc of that fact. just had a buddy with the motor for sale and had to jump on it.

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #254, 03-29-2007 10:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

Yeah drop the cradle. I have pulled a duke out of the top and trust me drop the cradle.

I'll post the link again to the auto stuff too.
3.4L 93-95 camaro engine swap pics auto
It also has a few more starter relocation pics too.

If you use just carb cleaner to clean everything, better buy stock in it as it goes soooo fast, does work great though.
I used the gunk NON-FOAMY stuff and a brush. works preaty well.


Thanks Gary and sardonyx!

Guess I'll go ahead and drop the cradle since it seems to be the easier way, plus it will lessen the risk to my new paint...

As far as cleaning goes, I have a portable pressure washer and I've used the cheapo carb cleaner many times to loosen the crud up and then blast it off. Works fine...really
Approx. 6 spray cans of the stuff at approx. $2 per can usually does an average engine block. This stuff will eat the hide off a buffalo
Detergent and water, along with some scrub brushes gets the remaining film off nicely.
I'm not painting a show car engine, (yours is outstanding by the way). Just probably give it a nice even coat of engine enamel, probably in a light color like silver or GM blue so it's easy to spot any oil leaks later on. I'll toss the intake manifolds and valve covers in the blast cabinet and get them ready for the beauty treatment....

I'm think that a few "upgraded" parts like a roller timing chain set, 1.6 roller rockers, performance push rods and lifters might be a good addition while I'm putting in fresh bearings, rings and gaskets. Probably hang a high volume oil pump on it too. Have to remember to put in the Rodney exhaust studs I bought for my 2.8 and never installed

I read the posts regarding the stock vs performance cam, so I'll leave well enough alone and use the stock cam.

The engine I found was checked out by the salvage yard and shows 155-170 compression on the cyls and good oil pressure & no smoke. It's a 130k mile engine so I'm hoping the internals look good enough not to require machine work, just hone the cyls and re-ring it. I'll see what the crank journals look like as well when I get the rods and main caps off.

Since I plan on new head gaskets anyway, I'll see what the valves look like and choose between my old 2.8 heads or the salvage ones. I know my old 2.8 heads are in good shape so they'll probably be transfered.

With all that, I'm hopeful of having a fairly reliable motor..we'll see....

I'm also tossing around the idea of a 4T60 or 440T4 trans swap along with this motor swap but not sure how much work that would be right now.
GKDINC says he has been running his SBC with the 125C trans for quite awhile, so I figure I ought to be ok with my 125C with the 3.4

Randy



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #255, 03-31-2007 07:53 PM
      I've been very impressed with this swap thread.

How impressed you say?


Well, as I posted earlier, I found a 3.4 in good condition and today I got it back here to "Scuderia Randy" and I'm eager to get started.

As the salvage yard said, it's a 103k motor with 155-170 compression readings and gaged 55-60 psi oil pressure. No knocks, no smoke and a 60 day warranty.
$426 later and it was in the truck...
Overall the motor looks pretty clean, but I'll know a lot more once I start pulling it apart. The salvage yard even solvent pressure cleaned it before I came to pick it up...not a spotless job, but it looks like they got all the heavy and really slimy stuff of it which will make things much easier.



The plan is to install new main and rod bearings, new rings and head gaskets, front and rear seals and a new timing chain set.
New lifters and pushrods and some 1.6 roller rockers will be going in also. Still undecided about cam bearings, but I might just do those as well so I'm sure about everything.

My tastes in "decor" are a little different than yours, so the mill is definately going to look a lot more "conservative", but hopefully it will look as good as I hope it runs

Randy


1MohrFiero MSG #256, 03-31-2007 08:08 PM
      Hey Randy,
Nice find. Time to start your own build thread so the rest of us can watch.



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #257, 03-31-2007 09:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 1MohrFiero:

Time to start your own build thread so the rest of us can watch.



It wasn't my intention to hijack this thread.
Simply saying that I was so inspired by it that I was compelled to attempt the same.

There are probably so many 3.4 swap threads already that mine would be superfluous anyway.

My apologies for the intrusion.

Randy


alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #258, 03-31-2007 10:44 PM
      Randy,

Great find. I am very happy for you. Make sure you get plenty of pics for the rest of us.

Alex


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #259, 03-31-2007 11:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

Randy,

Great find. I am very happy for you. Make sure you get plenty of pics for the rest of us.

Alex


Thanks Alex

My offer to help still stands. Now go get a motor

Randy


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #260, 04-01-2007 06:40 PM
      A few Dumb questions if you don't mind...

What is the wiring that comes off the top of the block, (red arrow pointing to it), and do I need it?
Looks like it was for the 3.4 DIS.
Should I leave it in place, or is there a way to remove it and plug the hole in the block?
How about simply clipping the wires and leaving the connector in the block?


2nd Dumb question:
I can't seem to get the distributor plug out of the block.
The hold down bracket is removed and I've grabbed the darn thing with channel locks, but all it does is spin...
What's the secret to this?


Randy


Chicken McNizzle (boscolingus@yahoo.com) MSG #261, 04-01-2007 08:34 PM
      you have to kinda pry it up as your twisting - thats how well seated that plug has become with the o-ring on it

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #262, 04-02-2007 06:21 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:

A few Dumb questions if you don't mind...

What is the wiring that comes off the top of the block, (red arrow pointing to it), and do I need it?
Looks like it was for the 3.4 DIS.
Should I leave it in place, or is there a way to remove it and plug the hole in the block?
How about simply clipping the wires and leaving the connector in the block?


2nd Dumb question:
I can't seem to get the distributor plug out of the block.
The hold down bracket is removed and I've grabbed the darn thing with channel locks, but all it does is spin...
What's the secret to this?


Randy


You can leave the extras sensors in the block as plugs, if you dont want the wire, clip it.

Yeah you have to twist and PULL HARD as it has most likely never been out since new. The plug is just like the bottom of a distributor, as the plug runs the oil pump, just like the distributor does/will.



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #263, 04-02-2007 12:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


You can leave the extras sensors in the block as plugs, if you dont want the wire, clip it.

Yeah you have to twist and PULL HARD as it has most likely never been out since new. The plug is just like the bottom of a distributor, as the plug runs the oil pump, just like the distributor does/will.


Thanks!
Guess I should have had a clue what the underside of that plug was like when I pulled the oil pump and the drive rod for it out of the block ....which gives me a thought !!
Why couldn't you just take a long 1/4" extension and run it up thru the oil pump drive rod hole and tap the plug out??
Seems to me that if the extension fits into the socket on the drive gear it wouldn't hurt anything........just athought...think I'll try it out unless you know better.

Thanks Again..

Randy


PerKr (per_kristoffersson1@hotmail.com) MSG #264, 04-02-2007 03:28 PM
      man... this makes me want a v6 for a rebuild... also makes me want to do some work on my duke (which everyone I know will laugh at me for considering)

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #265, 04-02-2007 08:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:


Thanks!
Guess I should have had a clue what the underside of that plug was like when I pulled the oil pump and the drive rod for it out of the block ....which gives me a thought !!
Why couldn't you just take a long 1/4" extension and run it up thru the oil pump drive rod hole and tap the plug out??
Seems to me that if the extension fits into the socket on the drive gear it wouldn't hurt anything........just athought...think I'll try it out unless you know better.

Thanks Again..

Randy


OK..It works great!
No need to wrestle with those channel locks, twisting and pulling. Just remove the hold down bracket, remove the oil pump and drive rod and then use a 1/4" drive long extension up thru the hole and seat it into the drive socket on the plug and tap away. The plug came out after 2 light taps. Couldn't have been easier.

Getting the cam sensor out was a little more complicated. The flange on it was broken away and so I had to dril a small hole in it and insert a sheet metal screw and then pull it out with pliers

Randy


alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #266, 04-03-2007 12:46 PM
      Randy,

What bolts are using to hold the engine in the engine stand and where can I get them? If you have a part number, even better.

Thanks


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #267, 04-03-2007 05:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

Randy,

What bolts are using to hold the engine in the engine stand and where can I get them? If you have a part number, even better.

Thanks


You can use quad 4 head bolts, I think the 2.8 ones fit too.


someday (sink156@insightbb.com) MSG #268, 04-03-2007 05:25 PM
      Dear God.....I've been mapping out how I want to do a Fiero. Hopefully moving to a house, rather than aa apartment, this month or next. Thanks to a broken leg and an ankle I've read about 200 threads in the past couple of weeks. I gotta tell you sardonyx247 this is the most informative engine-swap thread I've encountered.....incredible. I've earmarked it for my swap.

Thanks a ton, and a + for you.


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #269, 04-03-2007 07:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

Randy,

What bolts are using to hold the engine in the engine stand and where can I get them? If you have a part number, even better.

Thanks


I bought some M12 X 1.75 bolts (3.00 lg.) at ACE Hardware. They have a GREAT selection of fasteners. Metric, SAE, stainless and even hardened high strength...LOVE the place!

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-03-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #270, 04-03-2007 08:00 PM
      Looks like I just made my first major screw-up
How NOT to pull off a harmonic balancer:


I'm assuming the thing is now toast.
Placing the puller hooks behind the outer ring appears to be a big no-no. It just pulls the rim off along with the rubber ring inside it.
I should have known better, but.....
Others have mentioned using the balancer from the 2.8 on the 3.4. Is this possible, or even recommended, or do I have to add a new 3.4 balancer to the parts list now?

Randy


shawnkfl (kmn9312@knology.net) MSG #271, 04-03-2007 08:00 PM
      i got mine at ace as well. grab a few different lengths and a handful of washers. one of them needs spacers, depending on your engine stand arms.

randye...check your pm's


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #272, 04-03-2007 09:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by shawnkfl:

i got mine at ace as well. grab a few different lengths and a handful of washers. one of them needs spacers, depending on your engine stand arms.

randye...check your pm's


Nothing from you there Shawn..??


shawnkfl (kmn9312@knology.net) MSG #273, 04-03-2007 09:15 PM
      how about now? damn microsoft....

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #274, 04-03-2007 09:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by shawnkfl:

how about now? damn microsoft....


Got it...Thanks...now check yours


Fastback 86 MSG #275, 04-04-2007 12:33 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:

I'm assuming the thing is now toast.
Placing the puller hooks behind the outer ring appears to be a big no-no. It just pulls the rim off along with the rubber ring inside it.
I should have known better, but.....
Others have mentioned using the balancer from the 2.8 on the 3.4. Is this possible, or even recommended, or do I have to add a new 3.4 balancer to the parts list now?

Randy


Yes, to both questions. That balancer is toast, and other than the grate thing for the crank sensor on the 3.4, the 2.8 and 3.4 balancers are the same.


alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #276, 04-05-2007 10:18 PM
      Bump! This is an awesome thread

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #277, 04-05-2007 11:34 PM
      Dropped off my block crank and heads at the machine shop today.

Block will be cleaned, and new cam bearings installed and a broken head bolt extracted...looks like the bolt had been broken in the head for a VERY long time!
(I'll hone the cyls. and reinstall new plugs when it gets back)

Heads are getting cleaned and a complete valve job.

Crank is getting ground 10/10.....the journals were a little scored from the PO not changing oil, so just some precaution.

Total machine shop cost: $350 !!

The block torn completely down:


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #278, 04-05-2007 11:41 PM
      Just thought I'd mention that I sent sardonyx247 a message asking if he minded me "glomming" onto his thread, if only to add my learning experience to an already fantastic thread and give some detail on rebuilding the 3.4 from the crank, out.

No response yet...sardonyx247 check your PMs

If nobody minds..especially sardonyx247, I'll continue, but I'll be happy to start anothet thread if needed. Just thought having a lot of info in one place might be helpful.

Randy




sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #279, 04-07-2007 12:07 AM
      Yeah anything I might of missed or just didn't take a pic of it. feel free to add. Internal pics would be good too. I have another 3.4 swap about to start so I may be adding too.



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #280, 04-07-2007 10:50 AM
      OK, Thanks Sardonyx!

I'll have a good deal of internal pics to share as I rebuild my 3.4 from the crank, out.
If I make any mistakes on this, I hope some of the more experienced motor gurus will corect me

First a photo of the pile of parts removed from the 3.4 after getting it home from the salvage yard:

What a MESS!, but about all that will be saved from this pile is the cylinder heads.

Here's the top side showing one piston I just wiped with some solvent to see how bad the carbon build-up is.
Important to note here is the small semicircular notch in the pistons. They all face toward the front of the motor.
If you're going to remove the rods and pistons it's important to get them installed back in the same order and orientation.

Lots of rust in those coolant passages!!

The bottom side of the motor showing the crankshaft and rod caps.
The yellow arrow is toward the front of the block.
You need to keep the rod caps in the same orientation and mated to the same rods.
Note that each rod cap has a small gusset or web on one side shown by the green arrows.
Red arrow shows the rod cap side with no gusset.

If you remove the pistons and rods from the block make sure you keep the rod caps with their respective rods and just put them back on the rod bolts temporarily and put the nuts back on finger tight to keep them together. You can see that I've already removed the #1 cylinder rod and piston, (near the yellow arrow)...the journal on the crank looks ok so far.
Be VERY careful when removing the rod caps and tapping the pistons out so that you don't nick the crankshaft bearing journals with the rod bolts! Remove the rod cap nuts using a 13mm 12 point socket and then tap on the ends of the rod bolts using a small bock of wood and a hammer. Once the rod cap is loose, gently pull it off and place some short pieces of rubber tubing over the threads on the rod bolts, then using a longer piece of wood or a hammer handle gently tap the piston out of the block,,,don't let it fall on the floor!


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #281, 04-07-2007 11:04 AM
      Here's a rod cap with bearing still installed.
It looks ok, but has pitting and some wear from dirty oil.


Once the timing chain and lifters are removed you can carefully pull the camshaft out.
Here I found some scoring and wear on the cam bearing journals...again a result of dirty oil.
Seems like the previous owner didn't like changing the oil.

The cam bearings were worn pretty badly so they need to be replaced. That's a job for the machine shop since I don't have the proper installation tools, plus I need to get all the crud out of the block so it's a good time to have the block hot tank cleaned as well.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-07-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #282, 04-07-2007 06:16 PM
      Once the pistons and rods are out it's time to remove the main bearing caps.
The caps are pretty distinct from one another so it's hard to mix them up, but they are convieniently numbered starting from the front of the motor; N1, N2, N3 (green arrows)
The caps are also marked with a small cast arrow indicating their orientation which I've highlighted in red.
The rear main cap that mounts the oil pump is very different as you can see, (the oil pump is obviously removed here, and the pump mounting bolt placed back in the cap.


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #283, 04-07-2007 06:23 PM
      Here's the rods and pistons out of the block.
A bit of carbon and varnish, but nothing abnormal


All 12 lifters are also out ( in the background), but I'll be replacing them with new ones along with new pushrods.


alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #284, 04-07-2007 07:48 PM
      Looking great Randy. Keep up the good work.

Alex


David DeVoe (marcia.david.devoe@sbcglobal.net) MSG #285, 04-08-2007 10:19 AM
      Randye, if I understand you correctly you are going to use the original cam with new lifters. You might get away with that but usually thats not a good solution as the cam and lifters have worn together. I don't want to sound like an alarmist and maybe someone else will weigh in here but when you consider the time, effort and money involved you might want to look at a cam kit. I don't know about you but my least favorite part of working on cars is doing stuff over and over. Just a thought. Good luck. I'll be following this thread with interest as I have made up my mind that I will never build another 2.8.

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #286, 04-08-2007 04:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by David DeVoe:

Randye, if I understand you correctly you are going to use the original cam with new lifters. You might get away with that but usually thats not a good solution as the cam and lifters have worn together. I don't want to sound like an alarmist and maybe someone else will weigh in here but when you consider the time, effort and money involved you might want to look at a cam kit. I don't know about you but my least favorite part of working on cars is doing stuff over and over. Just a thought. Good luck. I'll be following this thread with interest as I have made up my mind that I will never build another 2.8.


No David, I'm replacing the cam, lifters and pushrods
I don't like the look of the lobe wear on the cam I pulled out, plus if you look a couple of posts back, the cam journals had some scoring.

If the previous owner had believed in oil changes, or if I had x-ray vision to see inside this motor before I bought it ......*sigh*

Thanks for keeping an eye on me. Never know when I'll go off and do something really stupid and it's good to have someone watching



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #287, 04-08-2007 04:59 PM
      Last night I removed all the rod bearings and put the caps back on the rods loosely.
I had (3) 1 gallon cans of GUNK brand carb and parts cleaner on the shelf so I decided to give my rods and pistons a good bath,
This stuff works wonders...
After the parts soaked overnight, I cleaned the now loose carbon and sludge out of the ring grooves in the pistons with broken pieces of old rings and then inverted the rods and soaked the bearing ends.

Here's the pistons and rods after their cleaning. All ready for new bearings and rings:


The light in the garage reflected off the pistons a bit, but all the pistons came out carbon and varnish free. The reflection looks a little like varnish, but they are nice clean aluminum and steel now
The #2 piston had apparently ingested something hard during it's past and there are a couple of gouges on the piston top that were obscured by the carbon buildup.
I figure since the gouges are not too awful bad and piston obviously held up fine for 100k+miles, I'll probably re-use it.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #288, 04-10-2007 02:11 AM
      Well Between the 2 of us, this WILL be THE 3.4 Thread. Install and rebuild
Myself, I'm in Vegas doing 2 swaps right now, have both engines ready to pull in the morning.
But didn't bring my camera, so no pics on this swap(s) as of yet, providing I find a camera to use.



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #289, 04-10-2007 12:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

Well Between the 2 of us, this WILL be THE 3.4 Thread. Install and rebuild



Before we call it "THE" thread on 3.4s I think a little clarification might be in order:

There are a lot of threads regarding the 3.4 and a lot of ongoing work that others are doing, and have done, with modifications to the 3.4 looking for more performance.
Things like head, intake and exhaust manifold porting, different performance cams, 1.6 roller rockers, roller timing chains, different valve springs, reprogramming EPROM chips...the list goes on and on....

Some of the best advice on 3.4 performance builds I've seen regards the "Law of Diminishing Returns"

In other words, there's a point at which you just will not get increases in performance, (HP or Torque), in proportion to the money spent on modifications.
I think you can almost swap in a decent stock 3800 NA without overhaul and get more performance from it right off the bat than with all the mods you could do on a 3.4, so on a $/ hp basis the 3.4 is not a really great candidate motor for lots of performance mods from what I've seen. (just my opinion)

So why the interest in a 3.4 swap anyway?

Well, to my mind it's THE easiest engine swap for a little more performance over the 2.8 and, other than the simple modification to the starter location, it's a complete BOLT IN, including no transmission, axles, motor mounts, harness, exhaust or ECU changes really necessary. It also LOOKS like the original Fiero 2.8 which is appealing to some folks, including me. It can also be one of the cheapest engine upgrades for your Fiero.

So...as far as this being "THE" 3.4 thread, lets just say that for my part, as far as the engine rebuild goes, I'll be limiting it to simply a very basic "refreshing" of a worn 3.4 for some reliability and longivity without going to the "extremes" of blueprinting, balancing, porting etc. etc. looking for that last fraction of HP that can be squeezed out of a 3.4 V6

Call it "low tech" if you want, but it's also "low budget", which doesn't violate my interpretation of the "Law of Diminishing Returns" Additionally, this sort of stock motor work may be very familiar to a lot of people, but I've received PMs from a few that have never attempted this sort of thing before, and while I'm FAR from being an expert at this, I think that almost anyone can do this sort of thing with a little explanation and help. I'll also be keeping track of costs of this basic rebuild while I'm at it so that you can decide if you want to just drop a salvage yard motor in your car as-is, rebuild or replace just some parts of it, perform "open heart surgery" on it like I'm doing, or just say to heck with all the work and and buy a new crate motor.

Randy

Apologies for being long-winded

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-10-2007).]

alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #290, 04-10-2007 01:51 PM
      Has anyone figured out what size plug extractor tool is needed to remove the plug for that one sensor? I would hate to order one from Snap On tools to find out it doesn't work and have to return it. Unfortunately there are no local store form them.

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #291, 04-10-2007 06:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

Has anyone figured out what size plug extractor tool is needed to remove the plug for that one sensor? I would hate to order one from Snap On tools to find out it doesn't work and have to return it. Unfortunately there are no local store form them.


One easy way to make your own tool for this is to simply use an old bolt and cut it off just above the threads at the shank. Then grind a square shape on the cut off end of it to fit the plug. Insert it into the plug and apply a suitably sized socket wrench....total cost: $0

If you're taking the heads off and doing a valve job and replacing pushrods, lifters and cam like I am, just swap them right for left when reassembling. The heads are the same as far as I can tell. You can just remove the sensor that is, (was), in the opposite head and leave the old plug in place. (This is not recomended if you're not replacing the valve train parts I mentioned.)


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #292, 04-10-2007 08:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

Has anyone figured out what size plug extractor tool is needed to remove the plug for that one sensor? I would hate to order one from Snap On tools to find out it doesn't work and have to return it. Unfortunately there are no local store form them.


 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

I would measure it if I were you.


But since you didn't it measures 8mm


 
quote
Originally posted by randye:


One easy way to make your own tool for this is to simply use an old bolt and cut it off just above the threads at the shank. Then grind a square shape on the cut off end of it to fit the plug. Insert it into the plug and apply a suitably sized socket wrench....total cost: $0


The reason I say get the right tool is I tried the grinding method and it just kept breaking off in the plug, untill it broke off and couldn't get the peice of the tool out. Had to drill it out.

 
quote
Originally posted by randye:


Before we call it "THE" thread on 3.4s I think a little clarification might be in order:


OK then, I will call it THE 3.4 Swap thread, Why because when I did mine there was hardly any pics of anything for the 3.4 swap. All the swap threads had very little info, so I tried to have as much info and pics as I could for swaping this. There was 0 starter relocation pics, and everyone just said to give my money away to rodney for a 1 time use only jig. I tried to keep this a cheap swap since if I could blank check a car I would not be here. And most people here can not blank check a car either or have what it takes for a bigger swap. I have not seen a better thread on swapping the 3.4L. Rebuilding modding or what ever. This thread was designed for my swap and to try to give as much info as I could so it could be reproduced.



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #293, 04-10-2007 08:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


OK then, I will call it THE 3.4 Swap thread, Why because when I did mine there was hardly any pics of anything for the 3.4 swap. All the swap threads had very little info, so I tried to have as much info and pics as I could for swaping this. There was 0 starter relocation pics, and everyone just said to give my money away to rodney for a 1 time use only jig. I tried to keep this a cheap swap since if I could blank check a car I would not be here. And most people here can not blank check a car either or have what it takes for a bigger swap. I have not seen a better thread on swapping the 3.4L. Rebuilding modding or what ever. This thread was designed for my swap and to try to give as much info as I could so it could be reproduced.



Hey, we are in complete agreement!
All I was saying is that my engine rebuild addition to YOUR thread was going to be simply a stock "refresh" of a 3.4 , nothing more really.
Just wanted to forestall any of the "why didn't you add a performance _________" type of posts.
I see too many people ask about doing a simple swap and suddenly get blasted with a bunch of mega-dollar suggestions.

I'm more than happy to call it "THE" 3.4 thread, afterall it's still your thread.
I'm honored you let me horn in on it a little
My intention is simply to help out those who might want to, (or need to), do some internal engine work on their stock 3.4 swap.
I agree, this should be a cheap and simple as possible.

Randy

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-10-2007).]

alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #294, 04-10-2007 08:56 PM
      Randy,

I had a hell of a time getting the harmonic balancer off. That has been the hardest thing to remove out of the whole engine. The timing chain looked a bit worn. I am now getting ready to replace the timing chain and sproket. We'll see how that goes. BTW my engine was pretty much clean. It actually looks tobe in pretty good shape.


shawnkfl (kmn9312@knology.net) MSG #295, 04-10-2007 09:16 PM
      the fun part about mine was going to auto zone and telling them i needed a oil pan gasket for the camaro 3.4 and a water pump for a 2.8 fiero....the look on the guys face was priceless!! i used the 3.4 oil pan on mine with the 3.4 oil pump. instead of doing the "impact persuasion" on the pan though, i ground a touch off the front motor mount and left the pan alone. you don't have to grind much off the motor mount to jeopardize the integrity of the mount at all either, so i couldn't see denting the pan to get it fit. randye, it was good talking with you again, hope the book helps. i have the starter jig bagged up for our next visit. Chinese lunch sounds good!

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #296, 04-10-2007 10:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

Randy,

I had a hell of a time getting the harmonic balancer off. That has been the hardest thing to remove out of the whole engine. The timing chain looked a bit worn. I am now getting ready to replace the timing chain and sproket. We'll see how that goes. BTW my engine was pretty much clean. It actually looks tobe in pretty good shape.


Alex,
If the engine looks pretty clean inside and your bearings and journals look good, then I'd say just put in the new timing set and new standard bearings and Plastigage them. If they look good on the clearances then button it up.

Don't forget to put on a new chain dampner with the timing set if it didn't come with one. They're cheap and it should be replaced with the timing chain set.

Be VERY careful with the cam! Don't pull it out when you remove the cam sprocket or you'll be pulling the lifters out to get the cam back in. If you still have the 3.4 DIS distributor plug in place leave it in until you change out the timing set. It holds the cam in place If you already took it out, then temporarily put the distributor and clamp from your 2.8 in or re-insert the DIS plug...doesn't matter what alignment, just use it to keep the cam in place.

Some balancers and gears pull off nice and smooth and some fight you all the way. Be sure to have the puller arms as equally spaced as possible to prevent "racking" the hub when you're pulling on it. If it's fightiing you, stop and realign the puller, that sometimes helps.
Squirting on some Deep Creep or PB Blaster ahead of time also helps sometimes. When you pulled off the balancer you should have seen a little gob of RTV or sealer on the front end of the woodruff key in the groove.
Be sure to remove that old sealer and clean the area with solvent and reapply a small dab of RTV there when you reassemble the balancer. It's there to prevent oil leaking

(edited to add Inspect the hub on your harmonic balancer. If there's a groove worn in it from the front seal, you'll need the repair sleeve kit to keep it from leaking oil.

Also, look very carefully at all the bolts you have removed so far. If you see any of them broken off on the ends start looking in all the holes...you're going to need to get the broken bolts out now.
I had one broken head bolt and 2 broken exhaust manifold bolts to extract. I had the machine shop do that since I sent the heads and block in. They charge $12 per broken bolt to extract...well worth it in my opinion!

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-10-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #297, 04-10-2007 10:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by shawnkfl:

the fun part about mine was going to auto zone and telling them i needed a oil pan gasket for the camaro 3.4 and a water pump for a 2.8 fiero....the look on the guys face was priceless!! i used the 3.4 oil pan on mine with the 3.4 oil pump. instead of doing the "impact persuasion" on the pan though, i ground a touch off the front motor mount and left the pan alone. you don't have to grind much off the motor mount to jeopardize the integrity of the mount at all either, so i couldn't see denting the pan to get it fit. randye, it was good talking with you again, hope the book helps. i have the starter jig bagged up for our next visit. Chinese lunch sounds good!


Great talking with you too Shawn.
Thanks for the starter drill jig! I'll be sure to pass it along to someone else when I'm done,
psssst, Alex are you listening?
I had the parts counter guy all befuddled when I ordered my gaskets !! Head gaskets for a 3.4, oil pan gasket for a 3.4, timing cover gasket set and manifold gasket set for a Fiero 2.8.....he kept trying to tell me the gaskets I was ordering wouldn't fit on a Camaro 3.4 and I kept saying, "Yes, I know"
We'll see how much damage we can do to the Chinese buffet in a hour


alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #298, 04-11-2007 10:25 AM
      Randy,

All of my bolts came out extremely easy with non of them broken. Like I said, the only problem I have had so far was removing the Harmonic Balancer. Everything else has been pretty straight forward.


alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #299, 04-11-2007 03:00 PM
      Well, after going to Auto Zone to borrow a puller for the bottom sprocket it seems that they do not have one. I have no idea as to how to get the sprocket off. Does anyone have a suggestion for me? BTW I received my bag of goodies from Rodney today. Drill jig, motor and tranny mounts, stud kit, idler pulley. Next comes the big order from the Fiero Store. I believe they are going to love me.

alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #300, 04-12-2007 11:38 AM
      OK. I have officially given up on trying to get the sprocket off. I have been to every auto parts store in my area and no one has the correct tool for getting the sprocket off. I take that back. The local NAPA store has a kit that they sell which has the correct tool but the want $103 for it. I don't think I am going to spend that much money for a tool that I'll be using just once. This is unbelievable! I have been at this for 3 days back and forth between auto parts store. I am about to just put the new timing chain with the old sprocket or else my swap will take years to complete at the rate I am going.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #301, 04-12-2007 02:42 PM
      It's always the stupid little things that take the most time, always.

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #302, 04-12-2007 04:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

OK. I have officially given up on trying to get the sprocket off. I have been to every auto parts store in my area and no one has the correct tool for getting the sprocket off. I take that back. The local NAPA store has a kit that they sell which has the correct tool but the want $103 for it. I don't think I am going to spend that much money for a tool that I'll be using just once. This is unbelievable! I have been at this for 3 days back and forth between auto parts store. I am about to just put the new timing chain with the old sprocket or else my swap will take years to complete at the rate I am going.


Alex,

As a last ditch effort you might try calling up any service center that has a hydraulic press and see if they can help you out.
If they have the right spacer blocks to put under the sides of the sprocket they could easily press that booger off there *and* press the new one on as long as you bring along a suitably sized piece of pipe to do it with.....just a thought.



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #303, 04-14-2007 01:23 AM
      I got my block, heads and crank back from the machine shop today.
All the new engine parts are stacked on the bench and ready to go, EXCEPT the piston rings.

What I have discovered is that nobody seems to stock the standard, (non-oversize), rings anywhere around here.
All the usual suspects like Auto Zone, Advance, NAPA etc. list the rings but don't have them or can't get them.
What everyone DOES have are oversize rings, (.010 & up), Sort of makes some sense I guess, since most engine rebuilds requiring rings usually bore the cyls....
I also found out that piston rings, (regardless of size), for a 3.4 are EXPENSIVE. Best price I found was $143 per set
The GM dealer wanted $45 PER PISTON for 3.4 standard rings, and had to get them shipped in from Michigan....
Had to call the machine shop that did my work and ask them where to get standard rings. They eventually located some in Miami and I should have them first of next week.
Cost: $125 shipped

By comparison, I priced a full set of standard rings for a 2.8, (which are readily available), at $53 for the set!

Even the parts counter guys at the stores were astonished at the high cost of rings for a Chevy 3.4

Reassembly starts tomorrow morning, so I'll have photos and an update to share soon.

Randy




yellowstone MSG #304, 04-14-2007 02:30 AM
      Cool! See, it's all for the best... :-)

 
quote
Originally posted by randye:

I got my block, heads and crank back from the machine shop today.
All the new engine parts are stacked on the bench and ready to go, EXCEPT the piston rings.

What I have discovered is that nobody seems to stock the standard, (non-oversize), rings anywhere around here.
All the usual suspects like Auto Zone, Advance, NAPA etc. list the rings but don't have them or can't get them.
What everyone DOES have are oversize rings, (.010 & up), Sort of makes some sense I guess, since most engine rebuilds requiring rings usually bore the cyls....
I also found out that piston rings, (regardless of size), for a 3.4 are EXPENSIVE. Best price I found was $143 per set
The GM dealer wanted $45 PER PISTON for 3.4 standard rings, and had to get them shipped in from Michigan....
Had to call the machine shop that did my work and ask them where to get standard rings. They eventually located some in Miami and I should have them first of next week.
Cost: $125 shipped

By comparison, I priced a full set of standard rings for a 2.8, (which are readily available), at $53 for the set!

Even the parts counter guys at the stores were astonished at the high cost of rings for a Chevy 3.4

Reassembly starts tomorrow morning, so I'll have photos and an update to share soon.

Randy





randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #305, 04-14-2007 10:39 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by yellowstone:

Cool! See, it's all for the best... :-)



You were exactly right my friend
I would probably have never done this swap if it had not been for my bad luck last month at Daytona.

You know a 3.4 swap would work very well for you also. It would look exactly like the 2.8 which the German inspection would never notice, and you could use that Trueleo intake, Morse TB and all those other engine parts you just bought. I would bet that you could make some very serious performance with all that on a 3.4.......or is that what you are really doing ??
Guess we will have to wait to see your next upgrades.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-14-2007).]

David DeVoe (marcia.david.devoe@sbcglobal.net) MSG #306, 04-14-2007 11:27 AM
      Alex de Jorge, try to resist using the old crank gear with a new chain. It will probably wear right out as the timing set has all worn together. After rebuilding several 2.8's I'm thinking I just used 2 screwdrivers to pry the crank gear off, or a steering wheel puller which you can get at Harbor Freight for next to nothing. As I recall I had to grind the ends of the puller arms to make them thinner so they would fit between the block and the gear. The trick is to not ruin the threads in the crank so you have to provide some other surface (a bolt head) for the puller to work against. Try the screwdrivers (big ones) first though and pry evenly outward. Isn't engine building fun?

alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #307, 04-14-2007 06:14 PM
      Thanks for the advice. I believe I have just found the right tool. Lets see whta happens.

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #308, 04-14-2007 11:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:

I got my block, heads and crank back from the machine shop today.
All the new engine parts are stacked on the bench and ready to go, EXCEPT the piston rings.



Not much accomplished today. Spent most of theday doing some gritty, dirty, but FREE upgrades to the block prior to cleaning and starting assembly.


Here's the nice clean engine block with new cam bearings installed.

I asked the machine shop to leave all the freeze plugs and oil galley plugs out so that I could flush and clean the block again after the next step:

I used a carbide cutter rasp and small grinding points on a Dremel tool to remove the casting flash in the lifter valley oil return holes.
The area I've highlighted in yellow shows about how much flash was removed from each return hole. Doing this dramatically helps oil return from the top end back down to the oil pan.

This passage in the front of the block, just above the front cam bearing was alomost 30% blocked with casting flash! (shown before going to machine shop...dirty!)
This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.

Here's the port cleaned up after just a little work:


The machine shop helpfully marked a yellow "X" wherever they removed a plug to remind me to put one back in
Nice..

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-14-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #309, 04-14-2007 11:34 PM
      Here's why it's a great idea to replace freeze plugs, even if you're not doing any internal engine work:

This plug was literally paper thin, but just looked rusty before the machine shop pulled it out prior to tanking the block!
If you are just going to swap in a salvage engine without doing any work on the motor, do yourself a big favor and carefully inspect the freeze plugs.



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #310, 04-14-2007 11:45 PM
      I found some nice plugs to fill the holes left by the cam sensor on top of the block and the crank sensor on side of the block.:

The area I've marked in red will need to be ground off to clear the lower intake manifold for the top plug for the cam sensor hole.
The plug for the side of the block is the exact same plug, but can be used unaltered.
You could leave the old sensors in place to act as plugs, but I like to clean things up a bit.
The holes in the top and side of the block measure almost exactly 3/4 inch. This plug is an excellent snug fit.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-14-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #311, 04-15-2007 12:01 AM
      Some of the parts pile waiting for their new home in the engine:

Melling Cam, (stock grind),
Melling Lifters,
Melling pushrods,
Melling Oil pump
Melling Oil Pump drive shaft.
SA Gear Timing Set
SA Gear Timing Damper
Clevite 77 Rod Bearings, (.25MM over)
Hi Tech Main Bearings, (.25MM over)
FelPro Gaskets
Pioneer Freeze and oil plug set
Pioneer Flex Plate, (88Fiero automatic, neutrally balanced)
Pioneer motor and trans mounts
GP Sorensen Injector O-Rings
Front and Rear Crank Seals (forgot the brand)
Assorted NPT plugs
Moly Assembly Lube
Permatex "Super Slick" Assembly Lube
Perfect Circle Standard Piston Rings

The oil pump pick-up tube is salvaged from the old 3.4 and has been cleaned up.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-20-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #312, 04-15-2007 12:13 AM
      The crankshaft arrived all nicely ground and polished ,(.25MM under size), and covered in a nice poly bag
The shop doesn't clean cranks real well after grinding, so it will need to be completely washed, and all oil passages cleaned out with pipe cleaners or gun brushes and solvent flushed and blown out with the air gun.

The crank will get it's bath after I'm done prepping the block and be put back in a clean plastic bag until it's ready to be placed in the engine.


shawnkfl (kmn9312@knology.net) MSG #313, 04-15-2007 11:02 AM
      looking great randye! nice job cleaning everything up. BTW, kristin enjoyed talking with your wife. and you know me....i'll always talk fieros!

David DeVoe (marcia.david.devoe@sbcglobal.net) MSG #314, 04-15-2007 10:06 PM
      Randye, looks so good it almost makes me want to start one.

twentyeight (andrew.clink@comcast.net) MSG #315, 04-16-2007 04:54 PM
      In regards your new crank, how do you plan on breaking them in? I just finished the same job (crank, that is), and I'm wondering what I should and shouldn't do...

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #316, 04-16-2007 07:05 PM
      It nice to have the pics of the casting flash removal. Alot of people don't seem to get what I am talking about when I tell them about the flash. I'm just about done with the 3.4L swap I am working on now. Then I get finish the other swap I am working on too. (2 going on right now)

At least I titled this "lots of pics", I never knew how many pics this thread would end up getting




randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #317, 04-16-2007 09:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by twentyeight:

In regards your new crank, how do you plan on breaking them in? I just finished the same job (crank, that is), and I'm wondering what I should and shouldn't do...


I'd just follow the same engine rebuild break in procedure. Run it at low to medium rpms for no more than 20-30 minutes, then change the oil and filter. After that, normal engine break-in.
Lots of different theories on proper engine break-in, but other than the initial oil change to get any debris from initial start up out, I'd just drive it normally, but not excessively hard, for approx. 500 miles and change the oil again. if it's going to chew something up, you'll know it soon enough.


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #318, 04-16-2007 09:20 PM
      Hard to get much done during the work week, but did get a few things done yesterday and this evening:
Lots of engine parts cleaned up and waiting to reassemble:


Also started cleaning the re-ground crankshaft, but stopped dead in my tracks when I spotted this:

A quick check of the specifications and a measure of the bore in my block eased my mind that I hadn't received a 3.1 engine in disguise.
Seems that the 3.1L and the 3.4L engines share a 3.31 stroke. The 3.1 L engine has a 3.503 bore whereas the 3.4 L engine has a 3.620 bore.
Interesting that they share the same crankshaft marked "3.1L"


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #319, 04-16-2007 09:39 PM
      The first order of business is to clean all the oil passages in the crank.
Most good machine shops usually do a decent job, but you should NEVER rely on them to give you absolutely clean parts back. That applies especially to crankshafts that have been ground.
The grinding debris ends up in the oil passages and if not cleaned out spotlessly, will EAT your new bearings and crank journals.

I started with some carb cleaner solvent and nice heavy duty pipe cleaners, (doubled up to fill the holes better) :


Keep cleaning the oil passages with pipe cleaners until they come out perfectly clean.
Here's a pipe cleaner after the 3rd time cleaning this particular hole, (needs a lot more cleaning):

Lots of little metal particles and dirt that would end up directly in the bearings at start-up
I had to clean this particular passage 11 times.
Think "surgical clean" when prepping a rebuild.


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #320, 04-16-2007 09:50 PM
      The 3.4 injectors looked really good! They might have been replaced before the Camaro they were in met it's demise.
Only a little cleaning required and new O-rings will be installed before reassembly to the 2.8 fuel rail:

I hate to put the old 15# 2.8 cold start injector back in, so I'm considering just plugging it's hole in the manifold and capping the tube outlet on the fuel rail.
Don't see much cold weather here in Florida anyway...

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-16-2007).]

alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #321, 04-17-2007 02:48 PM
      Well, an update on my 3.4L swap. I sent my injectors to cleaned and flow tested, sent Darrell Morse my throttle body and plenum to get worked on and just got my bags of goodies from the Fiero Store. I must say that I am quite impressed as always with the Fiero Store. The treatment is excellent and with the pennocks discount, I saved a bunch of money. BTW, this is just the begining of new parts for me. Here are some pics.









sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #322, 04-18-2007 01:08 AM
      Looking good guys.

I finished this 3.4L swap with all kinds of misc stuff to do to the car. For a 17 year old kid, it was a gift from his dad. Lucky Kid, 88GT too. And I am half way through my next swap. I was only 4 degs off on stabing the distrib this time


As far as the cold start injector, it only sprays during cranking when the engine is not warmed up. You can leave it in with no worries.

Alex,
Nice stack of parts, I put on new tail light covers on this Fiero too.

And for all doing this swap I recomend the poly dogbone, as it will help save your other mounts. A worn rubber dogbone in a 3.4 will shred the stock mounts. Just a heads up.



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #323, 04-18-2007 10:54 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:


DAMN YOU!
Tempting me to go spend more money !
Those headers, Y pipe and tips are things of beauty.

My swap might not the prettiest thing around, I'm just hoping to get it to run good and last a little while

I already have a "poly filled dogbone" sardonyx, plus I bought all new motor and trans mounts. Figured I'd do them while the cradle is out anyway.
Need to order some poly cradle bushings tho.....


alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #324, 04-18-2007 08:40 PM
      Well, go spend some money!

alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #325, 04-18-2007 08:42 PM
      BTW, those Ocelot tips are a beauty. I could not believe how nice they are. The craftsmanship is awesome. They will go nicely with the Ocelot exhaust that I already have.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #326, 04-18-2007 09:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:




Um, those tips are uneven.


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #327, 04-20-2007 06:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by shawnkfl:

looking great randye! nice job cleaning everything up. BTW, kristin enjoyed talking with your wife. and you know me....i'll always talk fieros!


Thanks for the starter drill jig Shawn.
It worked GREAT
Kim said she really enjoyed meeting you all as well.


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #328, 04-21-2007 09:13 PM
      More progress today.
I finally got the cylinders honed out and finished cleaning out all the particles, grime and dirt out from that, and from removing all the casting flash in the oil return holes.
I bought a $7.00 shotgun cleaning set at Walmart and put the copper brushes and swabs in the kit to good use cleaning out the oil galleys in the block before blowing them out with the air gun and then installing all the freeze plugs and oil galley plugs:

Note the expansion plug that I replaced the crank sensor with. I also filled the knock sensor hole just above the freeze plug, (even though it's a blind hole), with a pipe plug. Keeps things looking nice and neat

Next it was time to install the crankshaft.

Here are the main bearings installed after cleaning the journals and caps with solvent. Your bearings should be installed DRY between their seats and the backside of the bearings.
Note that the correct bearings have 2 oil holes in the upper bearing halves, (red arrows), and also have the lead-in groove. If you get any other kind, return thenm and get the correct ones. The main caps are just sitting on loose while I checked that everything matched up.

These are Sealed Power Bearings
The Pioneer freeze plug kit I bought was specifically labelled for the Chevy 207, (3.4L), V6 but it was 1 freeze plug short, so it was back to the store for another plug. All they had in the 34mm size was steel instead of brass, (yellow arrow), so that's what I got. All freeze plugs received a thin layer of RTV around their perimeter and were then driven in with a socket that fit inside them nicely and a ball peen hammer. Once the block is painted they will all look the same anyway..

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-21-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #329, 04-21-2007 09:32 PM
      With the main bearings installed I lubed the upper bearings and the lower, (cap), bearings with Permatex Ultra Slick Assembly Lube and coated the threads of the main cap bolts with Permatex anti-seize compound.

I like the Permatex Super Slick lube as it has good surface holding, (filming), ability and won't gum up oil passages at start-up like moly grease tends to do.
Plus it looks like blood so it's very easy to see if you missed applying it anywhere

Once the bearings were all lubed up liberally I installed a couple of the flex plate bolts to the end of the crank to give me a "handle" and then carefully layed the crank into the bock.


The crankshaft in place I then installed the main bearing caps and bolts. Leave the bolts just slightly loose at first and use a wood block and hammer to tap the crank toward the rear of the engine fully and then tap the crank from the rear end toward the front of the engine. This aligns all the bearings and sets the thrust faces of the #3 bearing properly. Check the distance between the front side of the thrust bearing face and the crank thrust face with a feeler gage. It should measure between .002 and .0084 in. (Mine measured .003 )
Something about a freshly ground and polished crankshaft that just looks so pretty to me...don't know why, it just looks nice

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-21-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #330, 04-21-2007 10:34 PM
      I missed a step earlier, and like most of these build threads, I got busy and forgot to take a photo
Anyway, I installed the rear main crank seal before installing the #4 main bearing cap as it's MUCH easier and safer to do it now than to press or pound it in later...
My rear main journal had a slight groove worn in it from the old seal, (red arrow in next photo), but it looked minimal, (less than .003 deep), plus I couldn't find a repair sleeve immediately available anywhere, so I figured it would be ok with a fresh seal in place.

Before placing the rear main bearing cap in place, you also need to put a 1/8 inch bead of "Permatex Gasket Maker Anerobic Sealer" in the areas shown in blue, otherwise oil will seep out between the bearing cap and block around the rear main seal. It can often be be mistaken for a leaking rear main seal. Some people insist that a thin film of sealer go on this entire area, but I've always had very good results from the pattern I use.

This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.


The main bearing caps all installed and torqued down to 70 ft. lbs. Do not pull the caps down with the bolts. Tap them in to seat with a small wood block and hammer! Make sure to torque the cap bolts progressively and work from the center cap out to both ends. Torque 30 then 50 then 70 ft. lbs. make sure that the crank rotates freely. If not, back off the bolts and find out what's binding. When you're done it should rotate freely and smoothly.


I prefer to install the crankshaft timing sprocket once the crank is in the block.
Clean up the keyway and the key of any burrs or mushroomed edges and tap it into the slot, then using a short piece of pipe or a wood block tap the new sprocket onto the nose of the crank until it seats solidly onto the shoulder of the crank. If the sprocket isn't properly seated all the way, it won't align with the cam sprocket properly and you'll destroy the timing chain in a very short order!


I had hoped to get the pistons installed today, but when I opened the package of Clevite 77 rod bearings I bought I found that they were the wrong parts! Seems that Auto Zone transposed a "3" and an "8" in the part number and it got past me too. Anyway the bearings were clearly NOT for a 3.4 rod , so off to the parts store AGAIN and new rod bearings are supposed to be here tomorrow morning. If so, I might be able to get the long block completed this weekend


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #331, 04-22-2007 09:24 PM
      The correct rod bearings arrived at the shop this morning, but instead of Clevite 77, I now have Sealed Power Bearings.
Actually they look better than the Clevite bearings so I'm almost happy about the mix up.


I forgot to take photos of installing the rings on the pistons so I'm borrowing a couple of pictures from "How to Rebuild Your GM V-6 90 Degree Engine" by Tom Currao
Some folks like to use piston ring install pliers, but I've found that it's way too easy to spread the rings too far and break them using those, so I install my rings by hand:
This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.

The method of installing the pistons in the block is also pretty straightforward.


I had a lot of trouble with the cheap-o ring compressor I used, (my trusty old one went missing), but I finally managed to get all 6 holes filled and the rod journals and bearings lubed up with assembly goo. Rod cap nuts were torqued down per spec. (36-42 ft. lb.) You'll need a 13mm, 12 point, socket for this.


Note that I previously numbered all the rods on the caps with a black marker so that they went back in the bores where they came out of. I just numbered from the front of the engine to the rear sequentially when I took them out. I used some Permatex red thread locker on the rod cap nuts to make sure they stay put.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-23-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #332, 04-22-2007 09:36 PM
      Next I temporarily bolted the cam sprocket onto my new Melling camshaft. This provides a "handle" to help install the cam into the block.
Go a segment at a time and apply assembly lube to the cam bearing journals and moly grease to the cam lobes, (The moly grease stays put and works better than assembly "goo" between the lifters and the cam lobes. The cam slides straight into the block with no effort. Once it's seated, carefully remove the cam sprocket without pulling the cam out and install the timing chain. Be certain to align the two timing marks (highlighted in red). One tooth off either way and the engine won't run properly. Use a straightedge to check alignment if you aren't sure.


Once the chain is in and aligned, install the chain dampner and torque the bolts to 17 ft. lb.[

This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-22-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #333, 04-22-2007 10:03 PM
      On to the Heads!
The valve job and clean up looks much better than what I started with
This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.

The head locating dowels were put back in, (2 per side), and the new Felpro head gaskets put in place.



Since the heads had been reworked and I didn't want to mess with extracting that pesky plug with the square socket, I simply swapped the heads side to side, (they're identical)
I purchased a set of Felpro head bolts, (shown in green circles), as you should always replace the head bolts, (they stretch and fatigue).
Install the head bolts with a little Permatex non-hardening sealer on the threads to prevent coolant leaking. Then torque the bolts in proper sequence and specification.



The valve stems, (red arrow), were cleaned up nicely during the valve job and the stock rockers showed very minimal, if any, wear so I'll be re-using the old rockers. Even the rocker balls looked almost perfect. Astonishing really considering the shape the bearings were in from dirty oil.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-22-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #334, 04-22-2007 10:17 PM
      That's as far as I managed to get today.
I have yet to prime and install the oil pump and set the oil pump pick-up heigth and fix it in place, (I just hung it in place for now). Then install the lifters, pushrods and set the valve lash
Then it can probably "officially" be considered a "long block".
Instead of denting in the 3.4 oil pan, I'll be following a tip I got from Shawnkfl, and altering the front motor mount slightly.


I'll have to pick out some engine paint colors soon. Not sure what to choose just yet, but I'm thinking I'd like it to look fairly stock "Fiero" with a little "twist" to it just to hint that it's something a little different than a stock 2.8


alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #335, 04-24-2007 06:01 AM
      Looking good Randy. Keep it up!

Doni Hagan MSG #336, 04-24-2007 12:48 PM
      I did my 3.4 pushrod swap a couple of years ago and other than a rebuild plus porting the exhaust and intake, it's pretty much stock. The only problem I ran across was adjusting the valve train. Once the engine's in the car, it's a PITA making valve adjustements as the intake has to come off before you can get to the valve covers. It was my fault mainly because I'd never done that kind of work before and didn't do it right in the first place. Other than that, the swap was pretty trouble free. I learned more about Fieros during that one swap than I learned from the three other Fieros I owned over the years.

The difference in performance was well worth the work.


GKDINC MSG #337, 04-24-2007 03:47 PM
      Randy, you are not really going to paint that engine Fiero "red" or whatever that color is, now are you??
Things are looking nice, shouldn't be to long now.
Good Luck
Gary


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #338, 04-24-2007 09:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GKDINC:

Randy, you are not really going to paint that engine Fiero "red" or whatever that color is, now are you??
Things are looking nice, shouldn't be to long now.
Good Luck
Gary


Nope..well maybe
I'm open to suggestions right now.


shawnkfl (kmn9312@knology.net) MSG #339, 04-24-2007 09:32 PM
      don't forget to place the lower intake gaskets in their position before you drop in the pushrods. you can cut the gasket after, but it's not the best solution. just lay the gaskets where they should go and drop the pushrods through them. it will be clear as to why if you havn't checked that part out yet...

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #340, 04-24-2007 10:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by shawnkfl:

don't forget to place the lower intake gaskets in their position before you drop in the pushrods. you can cut the gasket after, but it's not the best solution. just lay the gaskets where they should go and drop the pushrods through them. it will be clear as to why if you havn't checked that part out yet...


Thanks Shawn!

You know, even though it's been YEARS since I've done an engine rebuild, one thing doing this has brought back to me is that it's easy to get over anxious when you get close to getting it done and forget something crucial. The key is to take your time, maybe even make "to do" check lists, and double check everything, ....like that mysterious o-ring I called you about



shawnkfl (kmn9312@knology.net) MSG #341, 04-24-2007 10:12 PM
      lol...i searched long and hard about the O-rings. i just KNEW i needed them because they were in my kit. come to find out....i didn't. my kit had three of different sizes that i don't need. on the plus side, i had four manifold gaskets ...so i gave a set to bobadoofunk! i also ended up with two of the crank seals.

GKDINC MSG #342, 04-29-2007 08:07 PM
      Any updates? (Randy)
Just a bump
Gary


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #343, 04-29-2007 09:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GKDINC:

Any updates? (Randy)
Just a bump
Gary


Not a lot of progress this week Gary. Had a long "honey-do" list this weekend, but managed to get a little modification done that I've been wanting to mock up before finishing the swap:
I put it in a new thread so as not to clutter up Sardonyx's thread with more mods, plus I figured some folks might miss it if I "buried" it in this thread.
See my meager weekend progress here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/065095.html


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #344, 05-01-2007 05:17 PM
      How are you guys coming?
I have done 2 swaps in the past few weeks and am just about to start another 3.4 swap.
So much 3.4 swaping going on now.



alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #345, 05-01-2007 09:35 PM
      Well, I am taking my time. Not doing a whole lot lately. I do have good news though. I was able to get that freaking plug out. Man that was a PITA. Also, Just got an e-mail today from Rich Jensen @ Cruzin Performance.com, he is the one that's cleaning and blue printing my injectors and he said they are to ship. I did download the flow worksheet of the injectors and it is pretty amazing where they were and now. He did find that one of the injectors was bad so I have to buy one. Total cost for the job, $80.50. Mine you that these are the injectors that came out of the engine that I bought. Overall, I am very pleased with the service rendered by Rich, so I do recommend him if you want to get you injectors worked on.

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #346, 05-01-2007 11:08 PM
      I got messy tonight and stripped the paint off a spare set of valve covers and an upper intake.
Since you covered that well, I'll not post anything on it.

One note though, I used Mar-Hyde brand "Tal Strip". That stuff RIPS the paint off the parts!
It will also burn the heck out of any skin it touches!
It's like a gel that you brush on and it wrinkled up the old paint on the parts in approx. 10 minutes. It then just hoses off.

I also poured it into the upper manifold and nearly filled it up. I then let it sit for approx. 30 min. then flushed it out with the hose and VOILA, no more carbon...the inside of the manifold is as clean as the outside now Sure beats media blasting. A gallon jug at Advance Auto is approx. $26, but well worth it IMHO. Couldn't have been easier.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #347, 05-04-2007 04:53 AM
      I pulled out the old 2.8 last night and striped both blocks today, along with other misc. Fiero work.
What a vacation, come to Vegas and do 3 engine swaps,
and my Fiero is improving by leaps and bounds while I am here too.
Oh and Randye I have been told, in person, how great it is that my thread now has rebuild pics too.



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #348, 05-04-2007 09:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

Oh and Randye I have been told, in person, how great it is that my thread now has rebuild pics too.



That's really gratifying, and I'm happy to make a contribution.
I do think it's rather nice to have more or less complete 3.4 thread with engine rebuild info, particularly since low mileage 3.4PR motors are getting harder to find and the "How to Rebuild You 60 Degree V6" book is out of print, also hard to find, and very expensive if you do.
Personally, I would never rest easy with a 100k+ motor just dropped in without a rebuild.

On another note, I am still undecided about the paint colors for my valve covers and upper manifold, but I'm actually leaning heavily toward the metallic, (candy), blue cast coat you used on your block.
Perhaps is should be the "official" 3.4PR color


alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #349, 05-08-2007 06:36 PM
      Well, just got my injectors today. They look nice and clean and in another bag I got all the parts that were replaced. I also stated to stip and paint the oil pan. As soon as I get my stuff from Darrell, they'll be sent to powder coating.

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #350, 05-08-2007 08:44 PM
      GO Alex!
Sounds like things are starting to come together for you now

I managed to modify my thermostat housing. Removed the TB coolant line tubes, MIG welded the holes and ground them smooth and painted it. You can't tell they were ever there now!
Block, 710 pan, lower and middle manifold are painted. Rodney Dickman exhaust studs are installed.

Removed the casting parting lines from the upper manifold and removed the cast on TB coolant lines mounting lug with a die grinder and a carbide rotary cutter.

Hope to start dropping the cradle this weekend and swapping parts over from the old 2.8

I'm seeing light at the end of the tunnel...hope it's not an oncoming train



ThreeofClubs MSG #351, 05-10-2007 08:48 AM
     


I'm just blown away whenever I come across this thread. It always inspires me to clean up my engine bay, but I need some help with that. Does anyone know the color/code of this blue powder? It's very similar to my car's body color, and I'd love to have my intake, valve covers, and misc. parts done up in it.

Thanks in advance for any input. Feel free to shoot me a PM or email.




randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #352, 05-10-2007 08:39 PM
      I have not been happy about leaving that huge oil pan sensor in place as a "plug" in my 3.4 rebuild.

I just ran across this while looking for an alternative:

http://store.nutsandbolts.c...gs-auveco-15530.html

Looks like there are a few cars out there that use this M20 drain plug, so there IS an alternative to simply filling the dang thing with RTV and living with it
I don't need 5 of them, so I'll check the parts stores for a single one....

(Yes, I already measured the threads on the old sensor, and they're *not* a pipe thread, but a straight M20 X 1.5 metric...)

Randy

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-10-2007).]

alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #353, 05-10-2007 08:46 PM
      Hey Randy,

Aren't you going to use your oil pan? I thought up to '86 you are supposed to use the 2.8 oil pan. Correct me if I am wrong.


shawnkfl (kmn9312@knology.net) MSG #354, 05-10-2007 08:47 PM
      if you have to buy five, i'll buy one off you. or if you find a source, please let me know...i need one too! thanks for lunch randy. that place was pretty good if you ask me. i'm all clear for saturday too so pm me an address and i'll mapquest it. i'll take off around 10ish saturday morning.

shawnkfl (kmn9312@knology.net) MSG #355, 05-10-2007 08:51 PM
      you can used the 3.4 pan as long as you use the 3.4 oil pump. it's pretty simple to do that plus you can use the stock 3.4 oil level dip stick. no need to dent the oil pan either. a few minutes with a grinder and you can clear the engine mount easily.

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #356, 05-10-2007 08:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

Hey Randy,

Aren't you going to use your oil pan? I thought up to '86 you are supposed to use the 2.8 oil pan. Correct me if I am wrong.


Like Shawn said Alex. I'm using the 3.4 oil pan. It's actually a better pan and I already have the 3.4 oil pump installed.
The pan will mate up fine to the 87-88 timing cover.

Also as Shawn said, DON"T dent your oil pan to clear the motor mount. It's very easy to remove just a little metal from the mount to clear it and it doesn't affect it structurally.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #357, 05-11-2007 06:33 AM
      The 85-86 timing cover has an angle on it(with 2 extra bolts) and needs to use the 2.8 pan, 87-88 can use either pan.

I just finished up my 3rd swap last night(while I am in Vegas this month) So far I have done 3 swaps, 1 clutch, misc Fiero work, and pulled my engine out to do misc upgrades. I can't even count how many 3.4 swaps I have done so far.



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #358, 05-11-2007 11:05 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

The 85-86 timing cover has an angle on it(with 2 extra bolts) and needs to use the 2.8 pan, 87-88 can use either pan.

I just finished up my 3rd swap last night(while I am in Vegas this month) So far I have done 3 swaps, 1 clutch, misc Fiero work, and pulled my engine out to do misc upgrades. I can't even count how many 3.4 swaps I have done so far.





You said you've done 3. ( "So far I have done 3 swaps" )

Hope you haven't lost some fingers from all that work


alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #359, 05-11-2007 09:06 PM
      I want to get this straight, either way I have to dent the oil pan? Also, Since I am using the 2.8 oil pan, do I have to use the dipstick form the 2.8 or the 3.4?

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #360, 05-11-2007 09:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

I want to get this straight, either way I have to dent the oil pan? Also, Since I am using the 2.8 oil pan, do I have to use the dipstick form the 2.8 or the 3.4?


NO You do not have to dent the oil pan.

If you have an 87 or 88 timing cover, the 3.4 oil pan will mate up to it just fine.

If you have an 86 or earlier timing cover you will need to use the 2.8 oil pan and dipstick. The 2.8 oil pan is shallower than the 3.4 I believe. You'll get a false oil level reading from the 3.4 dipstick in the 2.8 pan.

You need to remove about 1.5 square inches of metal from the front motor mount on the short part of the "L" shape to clear the corner of the 3.4 original oil pan. This is not necessary on the 2.8 pan. The trimmed off metal allows the 3.4 pan to fit nicely and it's such a small trim it doesn't really affect the structural integrity of the motor mount.

I'll be trimming my motor mount tomorrow and I'll try to post some photos this weekend.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-11-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #361, 05-11-2007 09:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ThreeofClubs:




I'm just blown away whenever I come across this thread. It always inspires me to clean up my engine bay, but I need some help with that. Does anyone know the color/code of this blue powder? It's very similar to my car's body color, and I'd love to have my intake, valve covers, and misc. parts done up in it.

Thanks in advance for any input. Feel free to shoot me a PM or email.



You might want to check out the various colors on either Eastwood's or Caswell Plating's websites.
It looks a little like Caswell's "Lollipop Blue" metallic powder color to me....



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #362, 05-12-2007 03:52 PM
      The problem of the clunky old oil pan sensor on the 3.4 is SOLVED!

Here is the part required. Available for the *huge* cost of $1.98 from Advance Auto Parts




Here is what it looks like installed on the pan...a very RED pan I might add...



No more filling the old sensor with RTV or messing around with other "make-do" methods.
Looks professional and clean and will not leak!

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-12-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #363, 05-12-2007 04:11 PM
      Heres the refurbished thermostat housing with the throttle body cooling lines removed, the holes MIG welded in and ground smooth and painted:



Since there were no more TB cooling lines to worry about, the cast on lug on the upper manifold for the tube mounting was also removed and while I was at it I removed all of the casting parting lines on the upper manifold and smoothed it out a bit before painting:



Heres the other end of the manifold nicely cleaned up and painted:

This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.

I still need to sand the paint off the raised portions of the valve covers, polish all the areas and hit them with some high temp clear to forestall oxidation.

Should be just about ready to swap the new 3.4 in by next weekend if all goes well.
Thinking about removing the casting parting lines on the middle manifold too, but they are hard to actually see once the motor is installed and the distributor, brackets and misc. plumbing are in place.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-12-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #364, 05-12-2007 04:28 PM
      A small tip when painting manifolds or other parts..
I leave approx. 1/16th inch "overlap" on masked off areas wherever possible, (green arrow).
This helps prevent chipping of the paint on corners and edges and leaves plenty of gasket sealing surface.



You can also see how nice the upper manifold looks without the cast parting lines.
Not a perfect job but it looks much better to my eye

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-12-2007).]

shawnkfl (kmn9312@knology.net) MSG #365, 05-12-2007 05:12 PM
      randy, you're too humble! everything you've done to that car and engine is top notch. i was just staring in awe. next weekend, we'll hear it purr!

[This message has been edited by shawnkfl (edited 05-12-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #366, 05-12-2007 08:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by shawnkfl:

randy, you're too humble! everything you've done to that car and engine is top notch. i was just staring in awe. next weekend, we'll hear it purr!



Coming from a fellow mechanical engineer and a guy who has built a VERY nice 3.4L engine himself, I am honored by your compliment.

I'm happy we both were able to find the oil pan and block sensor plugs, and even happier that they were so "expensive"
You spent about what?, $6.00 for them?, and they turned out to be commonly stocked, off-the-shelf, items too!
Couldn't have been easier huh?



shawnkfl (kmn9312@knology.net) MSG #367, 05-12-2007 09:30 PM
      i think i have about $6.00 invested in the oil pan plug, crankshaft sensor plug and the cam sensor plug. why people leave the cut sensors in there instead of spending a few bucks is beyond me? i guess it goes along the same line as the bashing in the oil pan method though....it's all in the details.

we're all clear for saturday. i can't wait!

oh...tell kim that my A/C works much better with the vents open...lol. i like the windows down when i drive so i keep the vents closed. it took me a minute to figure out what the "whistling" sound was coming from the dash.


JimmyS (imezru1967@hotmail.com) MSG #368, 05-12-2007 10:05 PM
      Looks spectacular Randye! Can't wait to see it in person.



shawnkfl (kmn9312@knology.net) MSG #369, 05-13-2007 11:50 AM
      randy, i was thinking. lets get a "to do" list going to get ready for the swap next weekend.

i know you need to do:

lifters
pushrods
rockers
gaskets
lock down the oil pump
vacuum lines (new or make them?)
injectors and fuel pressure regulator
manifolds (are you using the ones off the 2.8?)


anything else?


alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #370, 05-13-2007 07:02 PM
      Which plugs did you guys get for the crankshaft sensor and the cam sensor plug? I would love to get them out and not leave them there.

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #371, 05-13-2007 07:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

Which plugs did you guys get for the crankshaft sensor and the cam sensor plug? I would love to get them out and not leave them there.


Advance Auto Parts
They are on the shelf:


Dorman 571-003

The same plug fits the cam and crank sensor holes.
Trim off the area in red in the photo above so that the cam sensor plug clears the lower intake manifold.
About 2-3 minutes work with a file or a bench grinder.



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #372, 05-13-2007 07:53 PM
      Sardonyx used the expedient method of simply denting in the 3.4 oil pan to clear the Fiero 2.8 motor mount, and I guess thats ok, but I opted for something a little different. (Actually Shawnkfl put me onto this mod)

Here the 2.8 mount is scribed approximately to where it needs to be trimmed to clear the 3.4 oil pan:



I used a die grinder and a carbide cutter to trim away the corner. Took about 20 - 30 minutes to clean it up:
You can probably do the same thing on a bench grinder as well.


Leave a generous radius and not a square inside corner to prevent creating a stress riser that might crack the mount later.
Just smoothly blend the cut as shown.

The mount bolted to the block and it now clears the oil pan nicely, and so little material is removed I don't think the mount is weakened structurally....should be fine.
I'll remove it and paint now

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-13-2007).]

shawnkfl (kmn9312@knology.net) MSG #373, 05-13-2007 08:19 PM
      with the pan installed, it's really easy to see exactly where to trim the engine mount bracket. took me maybe 10 min. with a 4" angle grinder. nice job randy. that red paint is making me second guess my yellow...

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #374, 05-13-2007 10:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by shawnkfl:

that red paint is making me second guess my yellow...


RED IS GOOD

This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.

VHT "Universal Red" with VHT Clear to prevent oxidation on the brushed aluminum.
The block, heads, lower and middle manifold and the thermo housing are VHT "Aluminum" also with clear coat over it.

Leave your 3.4 yellow Shawn. It will look great in that black coupe


David DeVoe (marcia.david.devoe@sbcglobal.net) MSG #375, 05-18-2007 11:12 AM
      bump


civicduty13 (civicduty13@yahoo.com) MSG #376, 05-18-2007 12:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:


NO You do not have to dent the oil pan.

If you have an 87 or 88 timing cover, the 3.4 oil pan will mate up to it just fine.

If you have an 86 or earlier timing cover you will need to use the 2.8 oil pan and dipstick. The 2.8 oil pan is shallower than the 3.4 I believe. You'll get a false oil level reading from the 3.4 dipstick in the 2.8 pan.

You need to remove about 1.5 square inches of metal from the front motor mount on the short part of the "L" shape to clear the corner of the 3.4 original oil pan. This is not necessary on the 2.8 pan. The trimmed off metal allows the 3.4 pan to fit nicely and it's such a small trim it doesn't really affect the structural integrity of the motor mount.

I'll be trimming my motor mount tomorrow and I'll try to post some photos this weekend.



so with this info, is there a difference in the 2.8 pump and the 3.4 pump?? or is it just the pickup tube??



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #377, 05-18-2007 09:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by civicduty13:


so with this info, is there a difference in the 2.8 pump and the 3.4 pump?? or is it just the pickup tube??


I believe that the 3.4 oil pump is a high volume pump (as well as the pick-up tube being slightly different.)
The 2.8 and 3.4 pump housings appear to be otherwise identical.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #378, 05-20-2007 10:54 PM
      A high volume pump usually has longer gears. As far as the outside goes I have no idea.

alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #379, 05-26-2007 08:01 PM
      Well, it been a long time since I have done an update. Today, with the help of Eli, I got the timing chain done(the small sprocket was a PITA to get off), as well as the rod and main bearings. Also, got the flywheel off and the new installed, the same with the rear main seal and the timing cover seal. Things should start to pick up as far as putting everything together. I still have a few things that have to get painted.

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #380, 05-27-2007 12:12 AM
      Great to hear you're making progress Alex !!

Since the following photo was taken I have the old engine and trans off the cradle and the cradle is completely stripped down.
I have new polyurethane cradle and A-arm bushings going in once the cradle is cleaned and painted and new tie rods and ball joints going in too.
New Pioneer motor mount and trans mounts are going on also. Found out that my front trans mount was broken and had been since I bought the car. Explains the *clunk* I sometimes had when putting the car in reverse!



The new 3.4 is on the stand in the garage waiting to go on the cradle.
I got the trans cleaned up more today as well as a lot of brackets and misc. parts. Tomorrow should be "paint" day for the cradle and trans and A-arms and then reassembly can start

Hope to have it all back in and running by next weekend.
I did say I work slow ....

Randy

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-27-2007).]

alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #381, 05-27-2007 05:49 AM
      Randy,

Your project is coming along nicely. You should be very proud.


yellowstone MSG #382, 05-27-2007 06:35 AM
      Looks beautiful - misfortune sparked a great project here!

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #383, 05-27-2007 09:37 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by yellowstone:

Looks beautiful - misfortune sparked a great project here!


You just like it because it's yellow

When are you going to show all those new parts on your engine?


yellowstone MSG #384, 05-27-2007 01:10 PM
      I have to pass TUV (technical and emissions inspections) in June. I'll do this afterwards...

 
quote
Originally posted by randye:


You just like it because it's yellow

When are you going to show all those new parts on your engine?




alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #385, 05-29-2007 10:51 PM
      OK. The only thing done today was the installations of the timning chain dampner. The one that came with the engine was pretty worn. I am waiting for my new oil pump, flywheel bolts and oil pan gasket to come in. I also stripped the middle and lower intake and they'll be painted tomorrow.

civicduty13 (civicduty13@yahoo.com) MSG #386, 05-30-2007 11:34 AM
      all i can say is that this thread has helped me out a lot. I will be doing my swap this weekend and have already used a lot of the info off here to purchase parts. I wont be doing a lot of the painting and all that stuff but I did do all new bearings, piston rings, oil pump, cam, timing chain and will be porting a set of exhaust manifolds today. I will post up my choice of color for the plenum and valve covers after I get it painted. Hehe

Do you have to get an adapter for the oil pressure sender if you arent using ac??


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #387, 05-30-2007 02:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by civicduty13:

all i can say is that this thread has helped me out a lot. I will be doing my swap this weekend and have already used a lot of the info off here to purchase parts. I wont be doing a lot of the painting and all that stuff but I did do all new bearings, piston rings, oil pump, cam, timing chain and will be porting a set of exhaust manifolds today. I will post up my choice of color for the plenum and valve covers after I get it painted. Hehe

Do you have to get an adapter for the oil pressure sender if you arent using ac??


I'm really happy that maybe some of the engine overhaul posts have been helpful for you. You never really know sometimes if what you post is helpful or just repeating already well known stuff.

As far as the oil pressure sender adapter, it depends on what oil pressure sender you have. I know that the one from the 2.8 with A/C will not fit into the threads on the 3.4 block, (big size difference). If you have a sending unit from a non-A/C 2.8 it might fit, but I don't have one to verify that with. The threads in the 3.4 block for the pressure sender are 1/4 NPT.
If you end up needing an adapter, it's no sweat at all. Home Depot, Lowes, Ace Hardware or any good hardware place should have a whole range of brass fittings for you to find something.
For my adapter, (car with A/C), I used a 1/4 NPT male to 5/16 female flare fitting, cost approx. 90 cents



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #388, 05-30-2007 03:08 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by civicduty13:

Do you have to get an adapter for the oil pressure sender if you arent using ac??


There is a adapter for the oil sender if you have A/C.
You can get one at Pep Boys, MotorMite# 43228, it is labeled 5/16" to 1/4".


This plug is where the above adapter goes, a 1/4in extention fits the hole perfect




David DeVoe (marcia.david.devoe@sbcglobal.net) MSG #389, 05-30-2007 07:59 PM
      Randy,
I have a similiar project going, but although I will be replacing the engine in my 86GT, the main goal is to replace a badly rusted cradle. I will be installing a low mile, completely regasketed and painted 2.8. After following this thread I'm wishing I had put all that time and effort into a 3.4. Oh well, next time maybe. Great job, great thread.


civicduty13 (civicduty13@yahoo.com) MSG #390, 05-30-2007 08:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


There is a adapter for the oil sender if you have A/C.
You can get one at Pep Boys, MotorMite# 43228, it is labeled 5/16" to 1/4".


This plug is where the above adapter goes, a 1/4in extention fits the hole perfect



do you have any pics of the sender put in place?? this is great.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #391, 05-30-2007 10:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by civicduty13:


do you have any pics of the sender put in place?? this is great.



You can kinda see the oil press. sensor in these pics.
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247 ON PAGE 3:







 
quote
Originally posted by David DeVoe:

great thread.


Thanks



alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #392, 05-30-2007 10:06 PM
      Today I painted the middle and lower intakes and timing cover. I also got a call form the powder coater, he's got my plenum, valver covers and headlight buckets ready to be picked up. As soon as I do and get a chance, I'll post pics.

civicduty13 (civicduty13@yahoo.com) MSG #393, 05-31-2007 01:29 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


Thanks



awesome. so it is just a tube that the sender goes into. I havent looked at my fiero in about 3 weeks and really had no idea how that worked. Thank you again.




alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #394, 05-31-2007 05:29 PM
      I just picked up the plenum and valve covers along with the headlight buckets and they look amazing. I'll post pics later.

OK. Here they are.





[This message has been edited by alex de jorge (edited 05-31-2007).]

JimmyS (imezru1967@hotmail.com) MSG #395, 06-01-2007 12:09 AM
      Looks great Alex!



alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #396, 06-01-2007 08:12 AM
      Thanks JimmyS,

All of my parts are finally starting to come together. I hope to start putting the engine back together by next week. I so excited!


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #397, 06-01-2007 09:05 AM
      Cleaning, repairing and prepping parts is the hard part.
The real fun begins when you get to start putting it all back together
Looks like you're doing a nice clean professional looking job Alex. Keep up the great work!
Wish I had powder coated my headlight buckets from Timo like you did. Looks like they came out great.


alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #398, 06-01-2007 02:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:

Cleaning, repairing and prepping parts is the hard part.
The real fun begins when you get to start putting it all back together
Looks like you're doing a nice clean professional looking job Alex. Keep up the great work!
Wish I had powder coated my headlight buckets from Timo like you did. Looks like they came out great.


They did. I am quite happy with them. They look so nice. I am waiting for the headlights to come. When I placed my order some of the items I ordered where on back order.


alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #399, 06-04-2007 05:20 PM
      OK, I need some help here. Trying to get my flywheel on, I noticed that the bolts that came with the engine and the new flywheel are not working out too well. The bolts are not long enough. Can anyone tell me exactly what size and length bolt I need and also where can I get them? I have been to every auto parts store with no avail.

thanks


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #400, 06-04-2007 05:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

OK, I need some help here. Trying to get my flywheel on, I noticed that the bolts that came with the engine and the new flywheel are not working out too well. The bolts are not long enough. Can anyone tell me exactly what size and length bolt I need and also where can I get them? I have been to every auto parts store with no avail.

thanks


It sounds like you got 'flexplate bolts' instead of 'flywheel bolts' for the auto vs stick. I think I have seen them in the "help" section at autoparts stores.


edit:should be m10x1x23 but it has to be a HARD bolt like 11.?



alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #401, 06-04-2007 07:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


It sounds like you got 'flexplate bolts' instead of 'flywheel bolts' for the auto vs stick. I think I have seen them in the "help" section at autoparts stores.


edit:should be m10x1x23 but it has to be a HARD bolt like 11.?


Actually, the bolts that I got were for the 2.8 flywheel. Apparently the are not the same thread size although the right length. I hope to resolve this issue quickly.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #402, 06-05-2007 11:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:


Actually, the bolts that I got were for the 2.8 flywheel. Apparently the are not the same thread size although the right length. I hope to resolve this issue quickly.


They are the same.
Make sure your holes in the crank are cleaned out very well. Check the bolts for burs and the holes too. Don't forget the loc-tite.

Mabey you have the wrong bolts.


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #403, 06-11-2007 09:57 PM
      A little update, with another modification on my 3.4 motor build.

I trimmed the tube off the timing mark bracket, (no clue what that tube is for, but heard it had to do with a factory timing device),
anyway, the new timing mark is much cleaner and I think it loos pretty good with the fake gold anodize finish

This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.

You can also see that the trimming of the front motor mount worked very well and avoided denting in the oil pan.

(That's a power pulley and a Rodney Dickman idler pulley on there too)


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #404, 06-11-2007 10:01 PM
      Another vieew of the engine on the cradle:
This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.

I managed to destroy the transmission dipstick and tube while installing the cradle in the car. Should have known better, and removed it beforehand, but, oh-well...I'm shopping for a new tube and dipstick now


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #405, 06-11-2007 10:10 PM
      This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.

One last view before installation into the car. We added a bunch more brackets and hung the harness on the engine, but I removed the intake manifolds and valve covers to prevent scratching them. I'd rather go thru the trouble doing them in the car than risk damaging them.

In this view you can see the cold start injector has been deleted and the port in the lower manifold plugged with a 7/8" freeze plug. The throttle body coolant lines are also deleted and the ports on the throttle body are plugged with 7/16-20 X .75 bolts. The fuel rail I used is identical to the stock Fiero rail, but has no fuel fitting for the CSI.
removing all this junk really cleaned up the engine a lot. You can also see the *smooth* upper intake manifold with the cast parting lines removed and the mounting lug for the TB coolant lines ground off as well

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 06-11-2007).]

JimmyS (imezru1967@hotmail.com) MSG #406, 06-11-2007 10:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by randye:

Another vieew of the engine on the cradle:
This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.

I managed to destroy the transmission dipstick and tube while installing the cradle in the car. Should have known better, and removed it beforehand, but, oh-well...I'm shopping for a new tube and dipstick now


Damn randye, that motor looks awsome!

I did the exact same thing when installing my 3800SC motor. Wasn't paying attention and broke off the top of the dipstick and moved the tube far enough to rip a hole in it where the bracket is. I had to buy a new dipstick and filler tupe from the local Pontiac dealer.

Once your motor is in and running I would like to arrange a time to come check it out if thats OK?



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #407, 06-11-2007 10:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JimmyS:


Damn randye, that motor looks awsome!

I did the exact same thing when installing my 3800SC motor. Wasn't paying attention and broke off the top of the dipstick and moved the tube far enough to rip a hole in it where the bracket is. I had to buy a new dipstick and filler tupe from the local Pontiac dealer.

Once your motor is in and running I would like to arrange a time to come check it out if thats OK?




Thanks Jimmy
I've been working hard on this car for a long time now. I do tend to work slow, but it's all finally starting to come together now.

It's actually become something more than an obsession. I've spent hours cleaning and polishing old bolts and nuts, and have replaced probably a couple hundred dollars worth of fasteners where I wanted them to "show" nicely. I also like the look of the stock Fiero 2.8 motor, but for my 3.4 I decided to just give the stock look a little "twist" to show that it's something different Cast silver block and red timing cover instead of the stock black block and cover, and the red oil pan, (which nobody really ever sees), and the cast silver thermostat housing, instead of the stock black. The cradle is in now, (BIG thanks to my buddy Shawnkfl), and the colors really brighten up the engine bay!




shawnkfl (kmn9312@knology.net) MSG #408, 06-11-2007 11:12 PM
      that's exactly why i was looking for a 84 duke. i wanted to take my time and make it look better than new, then swap it in my 84 one day. i can't seem to get one so it looks like it will get a 2.8 upgrade. funny. 2.8's seem to be easier to find than a 2.4....i'll be up saturday randy to grab the block and lend a hand if needed. maybe it won't be so hot! it was another great day there. nobody got hurt and the only thing that got messed up was the tube and dipstick. note to self....lighten up on tightening bolts....i had no idea i tighten bolts up so much! to me they feel snug but good god! taking them back out is a pain!

alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #409, 06-19-2007 09:07 PM
      Ok, here is my update. I finally got the lower and middle intake on. I also got the fuel rail, injectors and valve covers installed. The exhaust manifolds are also installed and looking great. I got some of the sensors on. I am working on the timing belt cover and water pump. I hope to have those installed in a couple of days. We'll see what happens. How's everyone else coming along?

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #410, 06-20-2007 12:16 AM
      Mine is back in the car and I'm finishing up lots of details...like re-wraping wiring harness, and I got sort of sidetracked rebuilding all the rear suspension



Business travel to Utah, and the birth of my granddaughter have also sidetracked my time on the car lately.
Should be able to wrap it all up this next weekend hopefully.


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #411, 06-20-2007 12:30 AM
      Guess I'd better show that the motor is actually back in the car

This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 06-20-2007).]

alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #412, 06-20-2007 01:08 PM
      Way to go Randy! and congrats on the birth of your granddaughter

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #413, 06-27-2007 10:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

How's everyone else coming along?


I am waiting on pistons to get here for mine (2 weeks)
other than that I am starting another 3.4 swap this week.
Swaping in 3.4s has become second nature to me lately.



fierorx7 MSG #414, 06-28-2007 12:27 AM
      ttt


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #415, 06-28-2007 09:01 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


I am waiting on pistons to get here for mine (2 weeks)
other than that I am starting another 3.4 swap this week.
Swaping in 3.4s has become second nature to me lately.


Yeah...what's the deal with getting pistons and rings for 3.4's??
I had a hell of a time getting stock, (non-oversize), rings for my rebuild, and I looked briefly into getting new pistons and they were special order too!
Overbore rings and pistons were only slightly easier to come by.
All the rest of the engine parts were easy to get, same day or next day.
Maybe it's just around here.....



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #416, 06-28-2007 09:59 PM
      Rings were not too hard to find $86 is a little high for rings but not as $$$ as my pistons were. The company who are making my pistons screwed up and didn't process the order right so it has been about 4 weeks and now another 2. Not too many places have many 3.4L parts on the self, only V8 stuff. I have everything now just waiting on pistons. I will be doing another 3.4l swap while I wait and helping finish up another one too.

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #417, 07-08-2007 10:11 PM
      Well I finally finished up my 3.4 swap!
It started right up on the first turn of the key.
This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.
Both lower coolant hoses leaking a small amount so new hoses to be installed this week, then timing and tune and a rear end alignment and it's back on the road...FINALLY!

Yes, I did the "Happy Dance"


topher_time (lost_caffeine@yahoo.com) MSG #418, 07-09-2007 12:28 AM
      Congrats, another finished. My second is just beginning



I'm going to spend a bit building this one up. I'll pour all my and my machinist's knowledge into this one. I shooting for over 200hp at the wheels.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #419, 07-23-2007 10:26 AM
      Well we finsihed another 3.4L swap. Pics will be coming soon. And pulled out another engine that is getting a 3.4L. So from one, straight into another. It was a busy night. I will have pics from the last couple of swaps to post soon. And some of this one.


Just out of curiosity, who all has done a 3.4L swap based off of this thread?

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 07-23-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #420, 07-23-2007 11:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


Just out of curiosity, who all has done a 3.4L swap based off of this thread?



Me

Installed pics coming soon.



Dodgerunner (dodgerunner@yahoo.com) MSG #421, 07-23-2007 11:32 AM
      I used some of the back ground information from the early pages for my swap.

Was wondering on the old cam that the lobes where worn. Mine was the same way and was the cyl. 5 and 6 lobes. Basically completely round.
Just wondered what you saw on your engines?

As someone suggested, I would now have liked to go with a lighter color for the block. Would make knowing if you had an oil leak much easier to find.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 07-23-2007).]

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #422, 07-23-2007 11:53 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dodgerunner:

Was wondering on the old cam that the lobes where worn. Mine was the same way and was the cyl. 5 and 6 lobes. Basically completely round.
Just wondered what you saw on your engines?

As someone suggested, I would now have liked to go with a lighter color for the block. Would make knowing if you had an oil leak much easier to find.



The cam I pulled out my 130k mile engine had obvious wear and scoring on the bearing journals and had "shoulder" wear, (uneven lifter contact), on several of the lobes. Seems to me that I noticed the most wear around the middle of the camshaft, (cylinders 3 and 4), no round lobes though.

Spotting any future oil leaks is precisely why I painted my block and heads high temp silver. The silver engine paint turns a little brownish right at the exhaust ports / gasktes on the heads pretty fast, but so far, (after a few hours run time), the rest of the engine paint looks great. No exhaust leaks, so it's just the localized heat on the heads..
The other advantage of the silver painted block and heads is that it reflects light really well and makes working under the car or down in tight spaces with a work light easier.....just something I noticed after I installed the motor....


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #423, 07-23-2007 12:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dodgerunner:

Was wondering on the old cam that the lobes where worn. Mine was the same way and was the cyl. 5 and 6 lobes. Basically completely round.
Just wondered what you saw on your engines?

As someone suggested, I would now have liked to go with a lighter color for the block. Would make knowing if you had an oil leak much easier to find.



The cam I pulled out my 130k mile engine had obvious wear and scoring on the bearing journals and had "shoulder" wear, (uneven lifter contact), on several of the lobes. Seems to me that I noticed the most wear around the middle of the camshaft, (cylinders 3 and 4), no round lobes though.

Spotting any future oil leaks is precisely why I painted my block and heads high temp silver. The silver engine paint turns a little brownish right at the exhaust ports / gasktes on the heads pretty fast, but so far, (after a few hours run time), the rest of the engine paint looks great. No exhaust leaks, so it's just the localized heat on the heads..
The other advantage of the silver painted block and heads is that it reflects light really well and makes working under the car or down in tight spaces with a work light easier.....just something I noticed after I installed the motor....


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #424, 07-23-2007 01:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


Just out of curiosity, who all has done a 3.4L swap based off of this thread?



Me

Installed pics coming soon.



alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #425, 07-23-2007 06:03 PM
      sardonyx,

do you have to install a different flywheel for an automatic or just use the neutral from the '88? I decided not to install it on my manual but in the automatic.

thanks


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #426, 07-23-2007 07:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

sardonyx,

do you have to install a different flywheel for an automatic or just use the neutral from the '88? I decided not to install it on my manual but in the automatic.

thanks


You should use the 88 flexplate, (Neutral balance)
I did.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 07-23-2007).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #427, 07-23-2007 07:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

sardonyx,

do you have to install a different flywheel for an automatic or just use the neutral from the '88? I decided not to install it on my manual but in the automatic.

thanks


the manuals use a flywheel, the autos use a flexplate. Either has to be from a 88.

Was wondering on the old cam that the lobes where worn. Mine was the same way and was the cyl. 5 and 6 lobes. Basically completely round.
Just wondered what you saw on your engines?

I have not noticed much wear on the cams. But the engines we have used have only 50,000ish miles on them



alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #428, 07-23-2007 08:16 PM
      Thanks for the answers !

red_rock MSG #429, 07-24-2007 02:32 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dodgerunner:

I used some of the back ground information from the early pages for my swap.

Was wondering on the old cam that the lobes where worn. Mine was the same way and was the cyl. 5 and 6 lobes. Basically completely round.
Just wondered what you saw on your engines?

As someone suggested, I would now have liked to go with a lighter color for the block. Would make knowing if you had an oil leak much easier to find.



I had my 3.4 painted silver. It looks like an aluminum engine. I did the right choice. I would do it again. Thanks to this thread I was able to get my 3.4 project done last year.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #430, 07-26-2007 03:51 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

Just out of curiosity, who all has done a 3.4L swap based off of this thread?



Any one else? I assume less than 80 as my feedback is only at 80.




Waerloga (ke5aux@gmail.com) MSG #431, 07-28-2007 07:28 PM
      This is godsend!

The tutorial is amazing. I registered on this site just for it.
Now, I just bought a 85 Fiero GT from a friend of mine with the 3.4 swap already complete. The car has been sitting for 2 years so on my way home The waterpump and alternator belts broke.
Should I just replace those and be on my merry way or should pull the engine out and hope I can put it back together in the end?

I am about to start adding onto the thread with more crappy pictures!


Waerloga (ke5aux@gmail.com) MSG #432, 07-28-2007 07:47 PM
      Ok so here it is


My new baby. Keeping it red



Engine bay as of now. It is an actual working 3.4 swap. Made it home.



Notice the missing belt. When I got home and opened the trunk. Steam exploded in my face.



The water pump is pretty rusty. Should i worry about replacing it?
Also the thermostat housing is leaking. I was told by the owner that I would need a new one. Should I look for a fiero 2.8 one or a 3.4 camaro one?

[This message has been edited by Waerloga (edited 07-28-2007).]

Waerloga (ke5aux@gmail.com) MSG #433, 07-28-2007 09:21 PM
      Here's another question.

There were 2 bent pipes attached to the trunk heatshield. Looks like the served no purpose as there was nothing connected to them. Is it safe to remove those?


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #434, 07-28-2007 10:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Waerloga:


Notice the missing belt. When I got home and opened the trunk. Steam exploded in my face.



That is the oil pressure sending unit.

As for the thermostat housing, you need one from a 2.8



randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #435, 07-28-2007 10:25 PM
      It also looks like your car had cruise control at one time, but all the equipment on the trunk side, (rear), firewall has been taken out.
Might explain the 2 lines you're talking about with nothing attached to them.


Richjk21 MSG #436, 07-28-2007 11:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Waerloga:

Here's another question.

There were 2 bent pipes attached to the trunk heatshield. Looks like the served no purpose as there was nothing connected to them. Is it safe to remove those?


Your probably talking about the pipes for the engine compartment blower, they supply air to the coil and alternator, the blower motor is behind the trunk carpeting, it comes on whenever the radiator fan comes on.


Rich


randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #437, 07-28-2007 11:06 PM
      Yellow arrows pointing to the air cooling pipes for the coil and alternator:



Waerloga (ke5aux@gmail.com) MSG #438, 07-29-2007 03:31 AM
      Awesome. It all makes sense now.

So is it possible to just put on the belt or do I have to take the engine out?
Should I try seeing if this will work before pulling it out?


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #439, 07-29-2007 04:50 AM
      Just put a belt on it to start. All you have to do is loosen the alternater and put the belt on, then tighten the alternator.
Grab the water pump pulley and check for play, also see if it wobbles at speed. after it is running see if it leaks at all.
Go from there



FierOmar (davidcordier@sbcglobal.net) MSG #440, 07-29-2007 10:20 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

Any one else? I assume less than 80 as my feedback is only at 80.



If you count PIP (Projects In Progress), you can add two; one 88 GT that will use a nearly stock 3.4; and an 87 coupe that will use a carb'd 3.4 that will be built close to ORIEF's specs.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #441, 07-30-2007 03:43 AM
      Wahoo page 12

 
quote
Originally posted by FierOmar:


If you count PIP (Projects In Progress), you can add two; one 88 GT that will use a nearly stock 3.4; and an 87 coupe that will use a carb'd 3.4 that will be built close to ORIEF's specs.


Cool 2 more 3.4s about to be on the road.

I should be finishing up another 3.4 swap tonight.
I will have more pics to post of some of the 3.4 swaps I have been doing. I need to get them off another computer and get back to my high speed, dial up sucks.



Waerloga (ke5aux@gmail.com) MSG #442, 07-31-2007 08:03 PM
      Ok so I put the belt on and it seemed to run fine for a little while.
But the second time I tried to start it it had a really hard time turning over. Not sure why.

Now the real problem, the second time I ran the car, it wouldn't cool properly. In fact, the water in the reservoir in the front of the car was boiling. Yes, actually boiling.
So I am going to change the thermostat. But what else could cause this problem? Also how hard is it to change the starter.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #443, 08-01-2007 11:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Waerloga:

Ok so I put the belt on and it seemed to run fine for a little while.
But the second time I tried to start it it had a really hard time turning over. Not sure why.

Now the real problem, the second time I ran the car, it wouldn't cool properly. In fact, the water in the reservoir in the front of the car was boiling. Yes, actually boiling.
So I am going to change the thermostat. But what else could cause this problem? Also how hard is it to change the starter.



the starter is easy, (after doing one) but you have to get to it from under the car. Hard time starting might be just a low battery. when you fill it, open the thermastat cap and the front rad cap, fill from the back, when water starts to come out the front, cap it. Then fill it up from the back.

Make sure you have the belt tight, as a loose belt won't charge right and won't cool right.


Waerloga (ke5aux@gmail.com) MSG #444, 08-05-2007 12:04 AM
      Ok, great that seemed to solver the problem.

So, considering that the interior of the car is.. missing is a good way to put it. Can I simply remove the sensor that I pointed to in the picture? Is it just for the gauges that I don't have or does it send something to the ECU?

Also thanks for the filling instructions. That solved the problem.


my-fiero (s.van.dongen@philips.com) MSG #445, 08-16-2007 02:53 AM
      My 3.4 swap
after several years, time to finish the project.
And a lot of help to read this topic







David DeVoe (marcia.david.devoe@sbcglobal.net) MSG #446, 08-16-2007 10:47 AM
      My Fiero, did you make those vacuum lines? I know there was one member here using aluminum tube to make them up. Looks good, real good.

randye (randy@enerson1.com) MSG #447, 08-16-2007 12:06 PM
      VERY NICE!
Good work and you will like having the engine painetd silver. (easy to find any oil leaks)

When it's done drive over to Dusseldorf and convince Yellowstone to get started on a 3.4 swap


my-fiero (s.van.dongen@philips.com) MSG #448, 08-17-2007 01:32 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by David DeVoe:

My Fiero, did you make those vacuum lines? I know there was one member here using aluminum tube to make them up. Looks good, real good.


No I ditn't make those lines, the vacuum lines come from http://www.rodneydickman.com/


 
quote
Originally posted by randye:

VERY NICE!
Good work and you will like having the engine painetd silver. (easy to find any oil leaks)

When it's done drive over to Dusseldorf and convince Yellowstone to get started on a 3.4 swap


First I had the engine painted black, but then I can not see any oil leaks, so I used silver. ( and it is better than black)
If the fiero is ready I drive to Yellowstone!!! I have to try it on the german highway


my-fiero (s.van.dongen@philips.com) MSG #449, 09-03-2007 04:05 PM
      Some more photo's of last week







yellowstone MSG #450, 09-03-2007 04:21 PM
      First, I need to install the Trueleo and the 1:1.6 roller rockers I have lying around... and I'm bringing the parts for the Archie big brake conversion back when I go to the US in 3 weeks. So I'll be busy, don't worry!

My-fiero: Very nice work! When you find the time, update the pix on your website... :-)

 
quote
Originally posted by randye:

When it's done drive over to Dusseldorf and convince Yellowstone to get started on a 3.4 swap




perry rhodan (fiero_gtr@hotmail.com) MSG #451, 09-19-2007 04:57 PM
      bump!!

DarkRanger4200 (rniertit@gmail.com) MSG #452, 09-22-2007 10:33 AM
      any one have a price list or total for how much the conversion cost them? I'm hope to do a 3.4 swap just what to know what the necessary parts cost to do the conversion, and do any of the fuel or coolant lines need to be changed?

DarkRanger4200 (rniertit@gmail.com) MSG #453, 10-08-2007 05:17 PM
      I know this is probably a dumb question but should you use the 3.4 heads or 2.8? im assuming the 3.4 is better, and what about the lower intake manifold should you use the 3.4 or 2.8?

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #454, 10-10-2007 11:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DarkRanger4200:

any one have a price list or total for how much the conversion cost them? I'm hope to do a 3.4 swap just what to know what the necessary parts cost to do the conversion, and do any of the fuel or coolant lines need to be changed?


The first time it cost me under $900 including powdercoating, painting etc.
No fuel lines or coolent lines have to be changed.

 
quote
Originally posted by DarkRanger4200:

I know this is probably a dumb question but should you use the 3.4 heads or 2.8? im assuming the 3.4 is better, and what about the lower intake manifold should you use the 3.4 or 2.8?


They are the same heads on both the Fiero 2.8 and the 3.4. They are both the H.O. (High Output) heads.

Reading through my thread would have giving you answers to all your questions.



eldervampire (mikepiercefield@yahoo.com) MSG #455, 10-11-2007 09:47 PM
      Sardonyx,

Man, you are my hero.
I was given a link here, and he was right. This has to be the best 3.4 swap writeup there is. Anyone turbo one yet?
I know about the Bird pulling almost 400 torque, and thats what I'll be looking to as my goal.

+ for you man, great job


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #456, 10-12-2007 06:10 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by eldervampire:

Sardonyx,

Man, you are my hero.
I was given a link here, and he was right. This has to be the best 3.4 swap writeup there is. Anyone turbo one yet?
I know about the Bird pulling almost 400 torque, and thats what I'll be looking to as my goal.

+ for you man, great job


Thanks

 
quote
Originally posted by eldervampire:
Anyone turbo one yet?


Yes



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #457, 10-12-2007 06:19 AM
      Here are some pics of the swaps we did last summer in Vegas.
The digi camera was not very good quality and I didn't even have access to it except for the later swaps.
But neverless here are some pics.









To go into this Fiero






my-fiero (s.van.dongen@philips.com) MSG #458, 10-12-2007 08:11 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DarkRanger4200:

what about the lower intake manifold should you use the 3.4 or 2.8?













sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #459, 10-12-2007 03:29 PM
      More pics as it was going in




A good way to keep from nicking your intake










sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #460, 10-12-2007 03:34 PM
     













sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #461, 10-12-2007 04:57 PM
      Here is the swap we did for Rich (Vegas Club Pres.)




With some ported manifolds










sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #462, 10-12-2007 05:00 PM
     





To go in this 88GT



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #463, 10-12-2007 06:48 PM
      In the car






sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #464, 10-12-2007 09:37 PM
      Here are some more misc. pics of the starter holes and A/C bracket needed for the mod.

You can use a pilot hole and then drill from the top, as the top is flat and not at an angle.










You can also test it to see how many shims you might need




sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #465, 10-12-2007 09:42 PM
      Here is the A/C bracket, I found a bigger bolt and tapped the hole for it.


And drilled out the hole on the bracket.
Before


After


And on the car




sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #466, 10-13-2007 04:01 PM
      Another 3.4L swap
This GIRL had her Fiero transported from OR down to Vegas so we could do a 3.4 swap in it.






Here is the bottom end of a 3.4L just compare it to a 2.8 and you will see the difference,
Its like comparing a duke to a superduty.
(anyone want to send me a pic of the bottom end of a 2.8 so I can put the pics side by side?)


The pile of parts to go on the 3.4


The engine going in


And in the car


It went into this Fiero




sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #467, 10-16-2007 10:07 PM
      Those were some of the engine swaps that I was working on this last summer.
I did 7 this last summer counting mine, well 1 was a 2.8 swap.




McNasty (scm0300@mail.widener.edu) MSG #468, 10-17-2007 08:32 PM
      So I know these swaps are usually done with engines that have been pulled from old camaros and firebirds.
looking aroudnd I found this:

http://www.rebuiltcarengines.com/ce06.html

would this be the same engine as the one used but it's new and being sold as a replacement for an s10 upgrade. and if not what would it take tp install this engine.
just a question sorry if this was already discussed somewhere else,
thanks guys


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #469, 10-17-2007 09:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by McNasty:

So I know these swaps are usually done with engines that have been pulled from old camaros and firebirds.
looking aroudnd I found this:

http://www.rebuiltcarengines.com/ce06.html

would this be the same engine as the one used but it's new and being sold as a replacement for an s10 upgrade. and if not what would it take tp install this engine.
just a question sorry if this was already discussed somewhere else,
thanks guys


That is the same thing execpt that one looks like it has a bigger cam in it.



McNasty (scm0300@mail.widener.edu) MSG #470, 10-18-2007 12:03 AM
      cool thanks that's great news I'll probably be putting a 3.4 in the next year or so...
compliments on this great thread,
very very very informative


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #471, 10-19-2007 03:56 PM
      I have alot of pics still to post of the lastest 3.4 that went into MY Fiero. After 3 years and 60,000 miles later. I decided to rebuild mine up as far as I could.
Pics will be posted soon.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #472, 10-20-2007 02:51 PM
      Here are the pics of my build, this time around, I added a few upgrades since last time.

My intake with the powdercoat and polish intact. (a little dusty)


The pile of parts to go back on the engine


My new FORGED pistons


I polished the rod beams for added strengh and lighter weight.


My piston, rod, rings, and pin as a set, all weigh within a gram of each other.




sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #473, 10-20-2007 04:48 PM
      My ported and polished heads, with a 4 angle valve job.
I ported the intakes, and a mirror polish on the exhaust ports and combustion chambers.













sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #474, 10-20-2007 05:01 PM
      Carving in oil groves for better oil flow.


The block with new bearings


Assembeld with the new forged pistons




All oil returns are duburred


The bottom end


The 3.1 crank (that is what is used in 3.4Ls)

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 10-20-2007).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #475, 10-20-2007 05:16 PM
      My double rollor timing set.
The chain is pre-stretched, so no worry about slack later on.
each link has a rollor on it, so the teeth roll on the chain and are not just sitting on the chain.









A new coat of paint, as the hot tank ate my old paint.








sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #476, 10-20-2007 05:32 PM
      With most everything on the engine










topher_time (lost_caffeine@yahoo.com) MSG #477, 10-20-2007 05:36 PM
      Looks good! When are we going to see it with the turbo?

alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #478, 10-20-2007 06:47 PM
      Well, I have finally finished my swap. After starting in March and being side tracked, I finished it this morning. I am extremely happy about this. The best thing is that it started right up on the first try and was pretty much in timing. Although I haven't driven it yet ( Car is at my shop), I will come Monday and will post my experience. I will also post pics. Many thanks to Sardonyx and Randye for all the help.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #479, 10-20-2007 07:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by alex de jorge:

Well, I have finally finished my swap. After starting in March and being side tracked, I finished it this morning. I am extremely happy about this. The best thing is that it started right up on the first try and was pretty much in timing. Although I haven't driven it yet ( Car is at my shop), I will come Monday and will post my experience. I will also post pics. Many thanks to Sardonyx and Randye for all the help.


Thats cool you got yours done, another 3.4L Fiero on the road


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #480, 10-20-2007 07:13 PM
      My metal vacume lines
You can get the tubbing from a hobby store for less than $10.
There is a thread on this here which gives you basic idea
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-1-061913.html





My Ceramic boot spark plug wires






[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 10-20-2007).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #481, 10-20-2007 07:27 PM
      Some parts

Poly motor mounts
I won these at a raffel at Westfest a year ago, they didn't line up right as the holes are off on one of the mounts so I had to drill new holes.

This is the one that was off






My new air filter


Oil cooler


Breather filter


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #482, 10-20-2007 10:14 PM
      My exhaust

out with the old


new resanator tips compliments of Rich




my new Y-Pipe compliments of Zefyr


custom exhaust from Zefyr too




compared to a stock exhaust, well a stock one with a hole in it (not mine)

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 01-27-2009).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #483, 10-21-2007 12:46 AM
      The oil return fitting


Durring the exhaust mock up stages




With the engine in the car



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #484, 10-21-2007 01:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by topher_time:

Looks good! When are we going to see it with the turbo?


How about now
Pics of the engine in the car with a turbo and intercooler.
















That is all the pics I have to post of my new boosted engine.

Comments?



alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #485, 10-22-2007 03:32 PM
      Here are my first impressions of the new 3.4 swap. I took the vehicle for a test drive this morning and everything seemed good. After driving the car for awhile, when I came to a stop the car would die. It also idle about 700 RPM when stopped at a light. Once I stepped on the gas, the car hesitated to take off. After a few more drives, the now the car would stall at every opportunity. It would not stay on for nothing. I checked everything once again, I even changed the AIC with another I had and nothing. Lastly, the only thing really non stock or modified was the TB. I removed it and put the old back one on and no more problems stalling. The vehicle idles 100% better. But, whenever I do stop at a light, the RPM's do drop to 700. That really sucks cause the noise inside the car is unbearable. I will continue to drive more and more to see what happens. I still can't drop the hammer yet since I rebuilt the engine but it feels a lot more powerful across the band. I'll keep everyone posted.

alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #486, 10-22-2007 07:57 PM
      OK, here are the pics of my ride with its new 3.4.









alex de jorge (draco24433@gmail.com) MSG #487, 10-23-2007 08:05 AM
      OK, first crank in the morning and not a good result. Car started fine and then idle weird then stalled. Once the car got warm it idle ok but not were it needs to be. I'll continue to troubleshoot the problem.

3.6lvvt6spdgt MSG #488, 10-24-2007 02:16 AM
      how is that turbo working out for you, how much boost are you running and what turbo is it.
also what are you doing for fuel management?


my-fiero (s.van.dongen@philips.com) MSG #489, 10-24-2007 03:44 AM
      A question?
What must you do whit the hole next to the oil filter (top left)
If you put on the oil filter it's stil open see photo below
It is not the conction to the oil presure sensor! (just below that)

can I just let it so, or must I use some plug????

 
quote









sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #490, 10-24-2007 03:14 PM
      other than the oil press sensor hole there are no other oil holes by the filter.

As for boost, I am running about 6lbs now, I am slowly turning it up.
And for fuel management I am using an 85 ECM with a knock sensor, I wrote my own chip.



3.6lvvt6spdgt MSG #491, 10-24-2007 08:14 PM
      so no staind alone system? wow you should get one and get that bit<h to 10psi 350hp.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #492, 10-24-2007 08:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:

so no staind alone system? wow you should get one and get that bit<h to 10psi 350hp.


I don't need a stand alone system, like I said I wrote my own code. the code is good to 14.7psi
and it cost me all of $0 to do. (I have freinds with burners, Thanks Matt and Brian)
And it will even pass smog


3.6lvvt6spdgt MSG #493, 10-25-2007 03:13 AM
      so how do you install a knock sensor with timing retarding abilaties ???? in detail please. picks are always good

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #494, 10-25-2007 03:51 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:

so how do you install a knock sensor with timing retarding abilaties ???? in detail please. picks are always good


Knock sensors come on a 3.4L block, one step down.
you need to get an ESC controller (from a car with a knock sensor) usally located on or by the brake booster.
There is a thread on wireing up a knock sensor for the 85 ecm. Only an 85 ECM has knock capabillities.
In the 85 ECM code you can toggle a switch, knock sensor.
then you have to add to the code how much timing to take out and how fast, and how fast to return the timing.
then add the wire from the knock sensor to the ESC then to the ECM, Mine is added in my wireing harness, and my ESC sits next to my ECM
Mine looks like it came stock execpt the blue wire loom.




3.6lvvt6spdgt MSG #495, 10-25-2007 04:33 PM
      is this the esc you are using


3.6lvvt6spdgt MSG #496, 10-25-2007 05:13 PM
      how can i tell if my ecu is correct the # 1226869 is this correct?


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #497, 10-26-2007 05:02 AM
      I forget what kind of car my ESC came off of. I don't have a pic and it is under my consol.

And yes that is the 85 ECM, if the chip has FTY it is a stick and FTX an auto.



Fierobsessed (nstarfiero@aol.com) MSG #498, 10-26-2007 05:38 AM
      Do you have any pics of the car that my former 3.4 went into? Just curious... It is the second engine of mine that has been inside 3 cars

I liked my 3.4 But when the clutch went, I figured it was time to move on to better, though not necessarily bigger...

It's been a long year in the making, but it is not far from done.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #499, 10-26-2007 05:53 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobsessed:

Do you have any pics of the car that my former 3.4 went into? Just curious... It is the second engine of mine that has been inside 3 cars


I dont have any pics of the car, it was a white 88GT and the owner is in tech school now and the engine/car is across the country.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #500, 11-29-2007 02:14 PM
      Well I'm back in Vegas to do another 3.4 swap. I will try to get a camera to get some pics but it will probably done by the time I get some.

I have one thing to say though, people do NOT use penzoil or Quaker state oil. This 2.8 was just full of sludge caused by wax based oils.




CC Rider (ccriderf1@gmail.com) MSG #501, 11-29-2007 04:37 PM
      Mobil 1 or nothing at all

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #502, 12-01-2007 01:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by CC Rider:

Mobil 1 or nothing at all


I wouldn't do nothing at all,
well if all they had was penzoil I think I would limp to the next store.


86_fiero_gt_92 (robert_szilagyi@hotmail.com) MSG #503, 12-01-2007 06:56 PM
      hey thanks for all the info vary helpful

if you guys/gals want to see the fiero getting a 3.4 here is the link http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2910644


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #504, 12-09-2007 05:44 PM
      Here are some pics of the last 3.4L swap that I did a week ago.






And The Fiero it went into





sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #505, 12-09-2007 05:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

I have one thing to say though, people do NOT use penzoil or Quaker state oil. This 2.8 was just full of sludge caused by wax based oils.



This is what I mean by sludge





sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #506, 12-09-2007 07:05 PM
      And more sludge from another 2.8L







topher_time (lost_caffeine@yahoo.com) MSG #507, 12-09-2007 09:01 PM
      ^^^
Unfortunately I've seen my fare share of the those as well


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #508, 12-10-2007 01:38 AM
      Here are some pics showing some of the differences between the 2.8L block and the 3.4L block.

We'll start with the side of a 2.8. Look at the side of the block and the corner support.


Now the side of the 3.4. Notice all the webbing the 3.4 has and how much thicker the corner support is.



The same corner of the 2.8


The 3.4



gotta run, I'll post more later.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #509, 12-10-2007 04:19 PM
      Look at the thickness of this 2.8 block. It is just thick enough for the pan gasket.





Now look at the 3.4 block. You can see how it comes out past the gasket.
There are also better counterweights on the 3.1 crank(the 3.4 uses the 3.1 crank)





Now look at where the block mains meet the side of the block.
On this 2.8 see how it tapers in.





On the 3.4 it does not taper at all, in fact it has webbing instead.




I don't have pics but the rods in a 3.4 are also alot thicker than a 2.8 rod. The chevy power manual states use can use SBC SJ rods, but the 3.4 rods are about just the same thing allready.

Well those are some of the differences between the 2.8L block and the 3.4L
You can clearly see why the 3.4 is such a stronger/better block than a 2.8




3.6lvvt6spdgt MSG #510, 12-22-2007 06:18 AM
      dyno dyno dyno dyno

3.6lvvt6spdgt MSG #511, 12-30-2007 07:17 PM
      here is my 3.4l p/r rebuilt ATK longblock swap and turbo build
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087040.html


Zefyr (zefyr18@yahoo.com) MSG #512, 01-27-2008 12:21 AM
      Hey sardonyx, When you get down to vegas sometime this summer, I need to show you some things about my ideas on the TT4.9L. From what I can gather I found an inexpensive forged crank and many other interesting parts. Still looking for a definition file for the ECM and deciding on what ECM to use.

Fiero_Fan_88 (kyle86gt@aol.com) MSG #513, 02-18-2008 04:14 PM
      So If I put a 3.4 in an 86Gt automatic I would need a flexplate from an 88 or could I keep the one thats in there?



JazzMan (jazzman@fierocentral.com) MSG #514, 02-19-2008 07:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88:

So If I put a 3.4 in an 86Gt automatic I would need a flexplate from an 88 or could I keep the one thats in there?



You need the '88 flexplate, or '88 and up flexplate as other 2.8/3.1/3.4 motors beside the Fiero use the same one.

JazzMan


npdimonte (npd@aps.anl.gov) MSG #515, 03-31-2008 04:44 PM
      Great link! I just picked up a 3.4L over the weekend and plan on using this link to guide me through the swap and engine rebuild. One question I have though, my oil filter mount on the 3.4L has a 90 degree adapter. Is there a way to eliminate this adapter and just have the filter screw onto the block? This link shows both configuration on two different 3.4L.

Thanks,



3.4 2M6 (chadwick101@tx.rr.com) MSG #516, 03-31-2008 05:32 PM
      HEY!!!! Nice work!!! I remeber doing my 3.4l swap only 6 months ago... haha. I just wish i painted the block and took pictures like you guys!!!

unboundmo (unboundmo@aol.com) MSG #517, 03-31-2008 05:48 PM
      quote----

And yes that is the 85 ECM, if the chip has FTY it is a stick and FTX an auto.

------------

I bought an 85 ecm through Ebay for 20 but I couldn't tell if it was from a stick or not and the guy didn't know from the junk yard. Say it is a FTX auto, is there a way to write a program for the stick utilizing the knock sensor or is it for the trash. I figure for 20 bucks it was a good gamble. Thanks for the knowledge though.

Hows the saab intercooler doing? I've heard a lot of opinions. Good and bad. I've got one too but I wanted to locate it in the wheel well since I'll have the stage II scoops on. I wonder what the best turbo configuration is on our car. Question.... If the original air intake sucks the air into the wheel well to breathe how well will an intercooler benifit in this area since the intercooler itself doesn't have the intake vacuum and primarily needs forced air through its fans/vents for cooling? Do you think the air will still venture in the wheel well because of the scoops shape or fly on by? I was thinking of adding a little clear tinted scoop, kind of like a window drip guard. Of course not that big nor the its shape. Just an example for a visual to help guide the air into that area. What do you think.

I noticed the location of yours but I was thinking to keep the engine vents clear (I even cut the bottom second set of louvers off them) to maintain a cooler engine compartment. Thinking heat rises.


duanew (cdw888@aol.com) MSG #518, 07-04-2008 10:52 AM
      Add one more swap for this page, in progress.
87 Gt, the original 2..8 went almost 200,000 miles, and then dumped antifreeze due to the intake gasket. The information here has been terribly helpful, going with a stock rebuild on the 3.4. The motor is done, and now in process of transferring all the exterior parts from the 2.8. There is a lot of stuff on these little motors.
I am going back and forth on 2 issues. No. 1, which injectors to use, and whether or not to take a chance on using them as they are or sending them off to be cleaned. No. 2. Do I feel lucky enough to drill the starter holes as lots of other folks have done, or do I buy the starter jig?

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for all the info, it has been fun reading it beginning to end.

Duane

[This message has been edited by duanew (edited 07-04-2008).]

Riddick85 MSG #519, 07-05-2008 05:43 PM
      I read through the thread but it didn't answer a few questions I had. When wiring it up, use the stock 2.8 computer and 2.8 harness or 3.4 computer and 3.4 harness or some combination? I read that it is all plug and play but what parts are really used? Also no need to retune the computer? Thanks

[This message has been edited by Riddick85 (edited 07-06-2008).]

McCool (gregmccool@hotmail.com) MSG #520, 07-10-2008 10:01 PM
      My 2.8 is pissing me off and this 3.4l swap has caught my eye and I just wanted to ask a few questions to see if this is the right swap for me.

I love the simplicity and economy of this swap and I love how I can utilize most of the parts I already have for my 2.8. The biggest problem for me is I want an engine that has 180-200hp NA with the torque to match. So I would like to know what this engine is capable of and what needs to be done to it in order to get to 180+ hp mark.

What is the difference between the 3.4 iron head and the 3.4 alluminum (is it pretty much the same deal as the 3.1 to the 3100?)

On my 2.8 the valve covers leak like a sieve even though I just put new gaskets on them. I've spoken to some other guys and they say the 2.8 is notorious for leaking at the valve cover. Does the 3.4 have this problem?

On and general automotive mechanics note, I was wondering if someone could explain to me more about rocker arms, rods and lifters. I don't understand why changing them increases performance or economy. What is the difference between a regular rod and a roller tipped rod. What does 1.6 arms mean? Why does swaping out one type of rocker for another change anything about the engine?

Thanks a lot guys, much appreciated.


TiredGXP MSG #521, 07-10-2008 10:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by McCool:

What is the difference between the 3.4 iron head and the 3.4 alluminum (is it pretty much the same deal as the 3.1 to the 3100?)


While it looks like the aluminum heads have larger ports, I believe they have smaller valves, so actually flow less air than the iron heads. 3.4 iron heads are exactly the same as the 2.8 and 3.1 iron heads.

 
quote
On my 2.8 the valve covers leak like a sieve even though I just put new gaskets on them. I've spoken to some other guys and they say the 2.8 is notorious for leaking at the valve cover. Does the 3.4 have this problem?


If you go with iron heads, these will be the same as the Fiero heads, so be prepared for the same issue - if you can find the neoprene gaskets, they are supposed to seal better than the other ones.


 
quote
On and general automotive mechanics note, I was wondering if someone could explain to me more about rocker arms, rods and lifters. I don't understand why changing them increases performance or economy. What is the difference between a regular rod and a roller tipped rod. What does 1.6 arms mean? Why does swaping out one type of rocker for another change anything about the engine?


A rocker arm is just a lever, and accomplishes two things:

Because of the unequal length on each side of the fulcrum (the ball on the mounting stud) the rocker arm multiplies the cam lift by the rocker arm ratio to increase the lift at the valve. A 1.5 ratio rocker arm multiplies the lift by a factor of 1.5, whereas a 1.6 ratio provides 1.6 times the cam lift at the valve.

Rocker arms change the direction of the cam movement from an upward force on the tappet and push rod to a downward force on the valve stem.

Because of the speed of operation and the resistance to lift that the valve spring exerts, stock pushrods may flex, which slightly reduces lift and perhaps effective duration of valve opening. Stronger pushrods may be installed to eliminate this flex and give you the full lift and duration you paid for with a new cam.

Hope this helps.

Cheers


**EDIT - Rocker arm ratio is determined by the length of the rocker arm on each side of the fulcrum. If you take a look at yours, you'll see that the length from the fulcrum to the valve stem is longer than the length from the push rod to the fulcrum. For stock rocker arms this ratio is 1.5 (well maybe 1.52) to 1.

Rocker arms also multiply the force of the valve spring to the pushrod and tappet, by exactly the rocker arm ratio. So if you have a spring with a 300 lb force when the valve is fully open, the force on the pushrod is actually 450 lb, The more lift you have, and the higher the RPM you expect to push the engine, the heavier the valve springs you need to ensure that the valve actually stays on the seat during the compression stroke. A performance pushrod engine requires upgraded pushrods to deal with the forces exerted by the valve spring.

[This message has been edited by TiredGXP (edited 07-10-2008).]

my-fiero (s.van.dongen@philips.com) MSG #522, 07-11-2008 06:31 AM
      Some more :





This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.











McCool (gregmccool@hotmail.com) MSG #523, 07-11-2008 03:29 PM
      Cool, thanks for that little lesson.

Does anyone here with a 3.4 have the problem with the leaky valve covers?

Also does anyone have anything to say about getting this engine to 200HP? I am really interested in this swap but I would really like to have that kind of power.

Thanks again,


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #524, 08-02-2008 05:09 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by McCool:

Cool, thanks for that little lesson.

Does anyone here with a 3.4 have the problem with the leaky valve covers?

Also does anyone have anything to say about getting this engine to 200HP? I am really interested in this swap but I would really like to have that kind of power.

Thanks again,


People say the intake is limmited at around 190HP(without boost), they also say it is too small for the 3.4 BUT that is at 100%VE wich these(or any) engine does NOT have. I can only guess I was about 180-190HP before the turbo. (mine was the fastest 3.4 swap that I have done/driven). Carb setups have been done with good results in power (I don't know what else was done but over 200HP). any 2.8L mods apply so any and all mods can be used with the 3.4L

And the heads are the exact same as the 2.8L so the same design as far as the way valve covers go on.

Thanks for all the responses, I never thought that this thread would get so big when I started it, no complaining here. (edit) dang over 36,000 views too.




sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #525, 08-02-2008 05:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by my-fiero:

Some more :





This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.










Nice job on the rotors, BTW FYI cross drilled and slotted rotors can be bought on E-Bay for around $120 for all four. But first time I saw someone drill thier own, Chamferd holes Too, NICE.



McCool (gregmccool@hotmail.com) MSG #526, 08-04-2008 08:11 PM
      Sorry, I read through the thread and I didn't catch the mods you did.

Could you fill me in on what you did to the 3.4 over and above stock?

thanks


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #527, 08-05-2008 12:52 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by McCool:

Sorry, I read through the thread and I didn't catch the mods you did.

Could you fill me in on what you did to the 3.4 over and above stock?

thanks


My list of mods is on my laptop and it would take awhile to type it all out again.
But for now, not counting some brackets, it is easier to just say the only things I didn't mod are the cam and throttle body. for now anyway.



sactodreamer (sactodreamer@comcast.net) MSG #528, 09-13-2008 03:06 AM
      Thanks for the thread. I'm in the middle of my 3.4 swap and all of this info has answered all of my questions. I got a great deal on a long block GM crate motor ($600) and I can't wait to get my car out of my garage. I've had it 4 years, the guy I bought it from (some of you know of DKOV) told me one of the injectors leaked. When it was delivered I checked the oil and it was nothing but gas (little leak indeed). So I picked up a low milage 2.8 to install but was having a hard time doing an engine swap with the same type of engine. The 3.4 I got was a deal and will get me on the road but eventually I want a 3.4 DOHC or 3800SC. Or maybe I'll just turbo the 3.4.

Thanks for the great write-up and pictures. I'll post pictures of my install when I get the motor together and ready to install. My car build thread is on another forum though. http://www.kitcarsforum.com...read-(sactodreamer)/


3.6lvvt6spdgt MSG #529, 10-09-2008 02:54 AM
      hey sardonyx247 i know you have a 3.4l turbo what do you think about this?
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/095416.html

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 10-09-2008).]

Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #530, 10-10-2008 08:41 AM
      I have to thank you again. I'm back to a 3.4 install.

Thanks again!

[This message has been edited by Saxman (edited 10-25-2008).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #531, 01-27-2009 03:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:

hey sardonyx247 i know you have a 3.4l turbo what do you think about this?
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/095416.html



I wrote my own code, no need for yours. Beside my engine is vastly different than yours.


unboundmo (unboundmo@aol.com) MSG #532, 01-27-2009 05:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by my-fiero:

Some more :





This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.












my-fiero (s.van.dongen@philips.com) MSG #533, 03-30-2009 05:43 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by unboundmo:



I used the old one
By removing the part from the engine, it was going wrong, so I had to rebuild them.
So I first cleand them and put it back to gether.

Stan


Dash (aalasmar@uwm.edu) MSG #534, 05-02-2009 04:15 AM
      so does the 3.4 bolt up to the 3 speed trans?

(stupid question i know but it 315 am and i have work at 8)


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #535, 05-04-2009 03:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dash:

so does the 3.4 bolt up to the 3 speed trans?

(stupid question i know but it 315 am and i have work at 8)


Yes, BUT you have to grind off part of the block for clearance, easy to do.



Wicked86 MSG #536, 06-22-2009 01:58 PM
      Ok, Now I have an '86 four banger, and I have been reasearching the different swaps for a while, I just wanted to get all of my facts streight before start anything because this car is my daily driver, and the only vehicle I have. Once I pull the old motor, the new one needs to go right in. I was looking at the Cadillac 4.5 for a while, but this seems to be more ideal. I know tha having a duke is definately going to hurt me on this, But I am just trying to get a complete list of what I need.

-2.8 stock parts
ECM, and engine harness
Distributor
oil pan
88 flexplate (P/N was given earlier in thread)
timing cover
motor mounts
coolant crosover pipe

-other parts
complete prothane kit (might as well do it all at the same time)
Rodney Dickmans starter template ( optional, but I don't want to take any chances)
3.4 motor from a 4th gen F-body

I will be taking my time and building the new motor, not just doing a junkyard swap, but for me, that is the easy part. My issue is that most of the cars that I have owned were gm V8 cars, most of which were produced in the 80's, and dealing with these motors, it's almost always just pull one, and drop in another. The other issue that I have, and the reason that I need all of my facts streight, and complete is that my friend who will be helping me is certainly not a facts kind of person. He is very happy to just throw it all together and see if it works, he has also never touched a Fiero (to my knoledge) and last week even tried to tell me that I would not have to relo my starter for this particular swap. Even after I looked it up on the forum, he argued it. (This is more a case of I need a place to drop my cradle, than that I need the help. I just can't see doing a motor swap on the street, in front of my apt, lol, and he has a garage)

I am also very familiar with the 3.4 as I did own a '95 firebird for several years. the 6 felt decent, but not spectacular. F-body's are notoriously lead boats, so I figure that in a car as light as the Fiero, this should have real potential, and I don't want to build a car with so much power that I can't street it, or drive in the rain. Anyway, I will most likely be starting my build by the beginning of July, so If I have left anything out, please let me know, thanks


Wicked86 MSG #537, 06-22-2009 02:02 PM
      Forgot to mention that I have auto and air, and intend on keeping both

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #538, 06-23-2009 03:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Wicked86:

Ok, Now I have an '86 four banger, and I have been reasearching the different swaps for a while, I just wanted to get all of my facts streight before start anything because this car is my daily driver, and the only vehicle I have. Once I pull the old motor, the new one needs to go right in. I was looking at the Cadillac 4.5 for a while, but this seems to be more ideal. I know tha having a duke is definately going to hurt me on this, But I am just trying to get a complete list of what I need.

-2.8 stock parts
ECM, and engine harness
Distributor
oil pan
88 flexplate (P/N was given earlier in thread)
timing cover
motor mounts
coolant crosover pipe

-other parts
complete prothane kit (might as well do it all at the same time)
Rodney Dickmans starter template ( optional, but I don't want to take any chances)
3.4 motor from a 4th gen F-body

I will be taking my time and building the new motor, not just doing a junkyard swap, but for me, that is the easy part. My issue is that most of the cars that I have owned were gm V8 cars, most of which were produced in the 80's, and dealing with these motors, it's almost always just pull one, and drop in another. The other issue that I have, and the reason that I need all of my facts streight, and complete is that my friend who will be helping me is certainly not a facts kind of person. He is very happy to just throw it all together and see if it works, he has also never touched a Fiero (to my knoledge) and last week even tried to tell me that I would not have to relo my starter for this particular swap. Even after I looked it up on the forum, he argued it. (This is more a case of I need a place to drop my cradle, than that I need the help. I just can't see doing a motor swap on the street, in front of my apt, lol, and he has a garage)

I am also very familiar with the 3.4 as I did own a '95 firebird for several years. the 6 felt decent, but not spectacular. F-body's are notoriously lead boats, so I figure that in a car as light as the Fiero, this should have real potential, and I don't want to build a car with so much power that I can't street it, or drive in the rain. Anyway, I will most likely be starting my build by the beginning of July, so If I have left anything out, please let me know, thanks


When you say 2.8 stock parts I hope you mean the whole Fiero 2.8 engine assembly. As you need everything execpt the block, not just a few block parts, everything.
Also your 86 4 has a different A/C compressor, won't fit the 2.8/3.4. So you would have to get a different A/C compressor too.



Wicked86 MSG #539, 06-24-2009 02:51 AM
      In that case, will those parts interchange with the 2.8 used in the Camaro/Firebird? I think that it will be much easier to find one of those motors in a boneyard near me, as I spend a lot of time in the yards around here, and cannot remember ever seeing a Fiero with a 6 in it. I rarely ever see any at all. Also, it was said earlier that the motor had trouble breathing at higher RPM's. Is that caused from using the 2.8 intake? or could it potentially be solved by creating a ram air setup?

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #540, 06-24-2009 07:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Wicked86:

In that case, will those parts interchange with the 2.8 used in the Camaro/Firebird? I think that it will be much easier to find one of those motors in a boneyard near me, as I spend a lot of time in the yards around here, and cannot remember ever seeing a Fiero with a 6 in it. I rarely ever see any at all. Also, it was said earlier that the motor had trouble breathing at higher RPM's. Is that caused from using the 2.8 intake? or could it potentially be solved by creating a ram air setup?


No you need a Fiero 2.8 with coolent crossover pipe, all the intake pieces, injection rail and all etc. Basicly a complete engine. oh and a V6 fuel pump. try craigs list too, a Fiero 2.8 with a rod knock should be cheap. Ask on the forum too, someone has to of done a swap not too far from you and has a dead 2.8 they replaced with something else. Good luck on finding what you need.


Wicked86 MSG #541, 06-24-2009 01:39 PM
      Thanks for the help, luckily, someone at my work wats to buy the 4.5 that I was going to use. I just didn't realize that I was now going to have to buy Two motors. Oh well it just the price to pay. At least now I can stay with injection, which was why I changed my mind on the on the Cadillac motor. I really didn't want to go back to messing with a carb. This may be a stupid question, but this is my first Fiero, and I'm not trying to have any more surprises. are the cradles the same at least? I am really not trying to have any more surprises.

mattwa (mattwa.inc@gmail.com) MSG #542, 07-19-2009 03:06 AM
      Hey, I just a 3.4 PR. Can I use the DIS system with the fiero timing cover, and crank pulley etc.? Reson is the crank sensor is mounted to the 3.4 timing cover, and I'm not sure if you can swap it over to the 2.8 timing cover.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #543, 07-19-2009 02:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Hey, I just a 3.4 PR. Can I use the DIS system with the fiero timing cover, and crank pulley etc.? Reson is the crank sensor is mounted to the 3.4 timing cover, and I'm not sure if you can swap it over to the 2.8 timing cover.


I don't know, that is more for the 7730 ECM swap thread.



BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #544, 08-30-2009 10:22 PM
     


A "Still fresh?!?" Bump


Wicked86 MSG #545, 11-04-2009 06:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


When you say 2.8 stock parts I hope you mean the whole Fiero 2.8 engine assembly. As you need everything execpt the block, not just a few block parts, everything.
Also your 86 4 has a different A/C compressor, won't fit the 2.8/3.4. So you would have to get a different A/C compressor too.


Actually, I found a complete interchange list, and there are a lot of other options for many of these parts, aside from the fiero. Most of these parts are very cheap at the pull it yourself yards too

'85-86 2.8L Upper This upper intake manifold (plenum) is unique. No interchange available.


Lou6t4gto (loubreslow@gmail.com) MSG #546, 03-06-2010 02:46 PM
      the CRANK sensor is Not on the Timing cover (thats the Cam sensor), The CRANK sensor is in the side of the block above the Pan Rail on the passenger side of the block. thats the only one needed for the DIS swap. there is a complete, VERY Complete,step by step w/ pics thread on this ( about a month ago I think) do a search.

ozzy83 (rickausmus11@yahoo.com) MSG #547, 03-18-2010 07:51 AM
      Sardonyx247 how's the turbo running? Ever have it dynoed or do you know what your putting down? And thanks for the great thread.



MattyDaddy MSG #548, 03-30-2010 03:04 PM
      i tried searching thru this thread for specs, but i don't see any hp or torque numbers. Have you thought of taking it to an engine dyno?

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #549, 04-11-2010 07:09 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by MattyDaddy:

Have you thought of taking it to an engine dyno?


I think about it all the time.


my-fiero (s.van.dongen@philips.com) MSG #550, 10-04-2010 03:44 AM
      fixt

[This message has been edited by my-fiero (edited 10-11-2010).]

my-fiero (s.van.dongen@philips.com) MSG #551, 10-13-2010 05:46 AM
      Update








my-fiero (s.van.dongen@philips.com) MSG #552, 10-13-2010 05:48 AM
     


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #553, 12-08-2010 01:15 AM
      That looks great, nice to see a 3.4 swap from "across the pond"

Marine1981 MSG #554, 05-20-2011 10:04 PM
      Bump to keep from Archives

tonycampbell86gt (tony.campbell@adelphia.net) MSG #555, 07-10-2011 05:02 PM
      B to the U to the M to the P.

MeAndMyFi (commando2055@yahoo.com) MSG #556, 08-14-2011 05:53 PM
      Alright now that im in the right area ill be starting my swap aswell. First things first. Cam is going to be changed and a comp cam is going in. What do you think will be a good replacement kit keeping in mind that fuel economy is something id like to keep reasonable but making power a nice increase. I should be picking up my 3.4 next friday and can't wait to start dropping the beat up 2.8 . How well should the muncie 4 speed handle the 3.4's power? And which clutch?

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #557, 08-16-2011 06:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by MeAndMyFi:

Alright now that im in the right area ill be starting my swap aswell. First things first. Cam is going to be changed and a comp cam is going in. What do you think will be a good replacement kit keeping in mind that fuel economy is something id like to keep reasonable but making power a nice increase. I should be picking up my 3.4 next friday and can't wait to start dropping the beat up 2.8 . How well should the muncie 4 speed handle the 3.4's power? And which clutch?


Since I havent tried any different cams I can't offer any advice on that. But the stock trans and clutch should be fine.
I didn't start breaking trans untill I boosted it. The biggest thing is to have a GOOD dogbone and firewall side trans mount.




MeAndMyFi (commando2055@yahoo.com) MSG #558, 08-22-2011 01:02 PM
      Sweet I got my engine and currently have it in pieces. The cam is toasted on the engine from rust and worn down alot so I need to find someone that has put a performance cam in their 3.4 pr . Besides that it looks to be a good block but it will only tell once its been tanked and mic the walls. Hopefully I will start getting some more funds to start putting it together as I miss my fiero badly

DJvonRapp (jants13@yahoo.com) MSG #559, 10-13-2011 06:32 PM
      Just wanted to say thank you. Your thread helped me tremendously. I now have my 3.4L from a 94 Firebird in the Fiero. It just passed smog yesterday and got registered again. One more Fiero back on the road! Thank you!

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #560, 10-13-2011 11:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DJvonRapp:

Just wanted to say thank you. Your thread helped me tremendously. I now have my 3.4L from a 94 Firebird in the Fiero. It just passed smog yesterday and got registered again. One more Fiero back on the road! Thank you!




gtxbullet MSG #561, 12-14-2011 02:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by McCool:

Cool, thanks for that little lesson.

Does anyone here with a 3.4 have the problem with the leaky valve covers?

Also does anyone have anything to say about getting this engine to 200HP? I am really interested in this swap but I would really like to have that kind of power.

Thanks again,


I know I'm responding to this a few months after the fact. but here's what you'd need for a 200 hp 3.4L V6 (iron head style)
Trueleo intake, Trueleo or West Coast Fiero Headers, 272 Camshaft, roller rockers (stock ratio with the 272 cam), hardened pushrods, new lifters, HD valve springs, and a good tune. may actually hit over 200hp depending on temp, elevation, and tune...

OR for a more undescriptive basic general list:

headers, cam, roller rockers, tune

later in it's life depending on how the next year goes for me, I'll be dual a dual throttle body set up, making a custom down pipe myself, higher ratio roller rockers, and getting the computer tuned.

I already have Sprint Headers/manifold, because I found the trueleos to be too much of a pain, and be waaaay to cramped in the engine bay for my tastes.


TheRealShadowX (therealshadowx@gmail.com) MSG #562, 12-15-2011 05:59 AM
      Don't forget PORTING!!!!!

You'll never hit 200HP with stock flowing heads.


gtxbullet MSG #563, 12-31-2011 05:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TheRealShadowX:

Don't forget PORTING!!!!!

You'll never hit 200HP with stock flowing heads.


I thought I had mentioned that, but I guess not. whupsie. :P


mattwa (mattwa.inc@gmail.com) MSG #564, 01-01-2012 08:21 PM
      .

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 01-10-2012).]

my-fiero (s.van.dongen@philips.com) MSG #565, 01-31-2012 02:16 AM
      bump

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #566, 02-14-2012 08:32 AM
      To sardonyx247 (and others that have posted), thanks for the thread with all the pictures and what not.

Ok I started my 3.4l swap into my 88 GT a few days ago, however I am using the crate S10 upgrade motor, GM part number 12363230 and just wanted to indicated the few differences here in case others follow this path.

First thing I noticed is that the timing cover does not need to be changed to allow for the Fiero water pump. Seems the S10 flows the same direction. So I figured, already ahead in the game (there also was no plug installed in the distributor hole) . Got the lower intake installed and a few other little things and then I wanted to mount the front mount/bracket. Noticed that there was no way this was going to fit without major impact modification. looking through pictures in this thread I noticed that the F-body oil pan is different in shape as it has a small 'step' up towards the crank near the front whereas the S10 upgrade motor does not - see picture:




Anyways, there it is - don't see any other differences (yet) - but just wanted to add this to the info in this thread.


Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #567, 02-18-2012 09:00 PM
      Ok, another snag with the 3.4 crate.

There is a brass bushing pressed into the end of the crank which will have to be removed so that the torque converter will fit (or the alignment tool for clutch disc). Seems to be holding in there pretty good and the only method I could think of right now was to cut through the brass and knock out a section, which then made it easier to knock out the rest.

The diameter of the crank hole is correct once the brass bushing is removed when compared to my 2.8l.

In this picture you can see I have cut through the brass already before knock ing out (used a hacksaw blade):

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 04-08-2014).]

josef644 (josef644@hotmail.com) MSG #568, 02-19-2012 06:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

Ok, another snag with the 3.4 crate.

There is a brass bushing pressed into the end of the crank which will have to be removed so that the torque converter will fit (or the alignment tool for clutch disc). Seems to be holding in there pretty good and the only method I could think of right now was to cut through the brass and knock out a section, which then made it easier to knock out the rest.

The diameter of the crank hole is correct once the brass bushing is removed when compared to my 2.8l.

In this picture you can see I have cut through the brass already before knock ing out (used a hacksaw blade):




I had to do this once. I drilled threw with a real small bit, then used a flat screw driver and a hammer to finish it up. What a pain.


BillS (wspohn4@aol.com) MSG #569, 02-26-2012 06:17 PM
      When I stuffed a 3.4 into a 1956 MG, I useed the Fiero valve covers - they look a heck of a lot better than the stamped steel used on the 3.4 engines. You just need the right bolts and you need to grind a tad off the underside of the upper plenum.




RWDPLZ MSG #570, 02-26-2012 07:30 PM
      On the upgrade crate motor, it looks like there's a plug where the crankshaft position sensor would go in the 93-95 Firebird/Camaro engine, does the crankshaft on the crate engine have the reluctor wheel on it for DIS ignition (or a Fiero swap with a 7730 ECM)?

Mickey_Moose (edmontonfieros@shaw.ca) MSG #571, 03-05-2012 10:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:
I had to do this once. I drilled threw with a real small bit, then used a flat screw driver and a hammer to finish it up. What a pain.


The sad part is, after I cut the bushing I was talking with the neighbour and he said that there is a far easier way to remove the pilot bushing. He said you find a shaft that will fit the opening (wood, metal - didn't matter) pack the opening with grease and pound the shaft in which will compress the grease and push the bushing out.


 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:

On the upgrade crate motor, it looks like there's a plug where the crankshaft position sensor would go in the 93-95 Firebird/Camaro engine, does the crankshaft on the crate engine have the reluctor wheel on it for DIS ignition (or a Fiero swap with a 7730 ECM)?


No, the S10 crate is made for a carb/distributor setup.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 03-05-2012).]

FieroWannaBe (patond@alumni.msoe.edu) MSG #572, 03-06-2012 08:11 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:
looking through pictures in this thread I noticed that the F-body oil pan is different in shape as it has a small 'step' up towards the crank near the front whereas the S10 upgrade motor does not


Just use a Fiero oil pan.


ManMadeChickens (justinparcher@gmail.com) MSG #573, 05-01-2012 01:27 AM
      I can second the problems with having the pilot bushing in there. I just finished installing a Camaro 3.4 in my Fiero, and the crank still had a pilot bushing in it from the old car. Upon trying to install the transmission onto the engine, it was so close, but not quite flush with the back of the block. My friend and I knew better than to cinch it up using the bolts, but we figured it was close enough already. It wasn't. Apparently, the input shaft of the trans was hitting the pilot bushing. Cinching it up with the bolts caused this lovely situation:



That's one of the bolt holes on the transmission. Cast aluminum and odd pressure the bellhousing wasn't designed for can result in a cracked trans case. So, two bits of advice: One, remove the pilot bushing, and you won't have the problem I did... Two, if it is stuck, trust me... there's a reason you're told not to pull an engine and trans together with the bolts. We removed the pilot bushing exactly the same way- cut it up, and pop it out.

[This message has been edited by ManMadeChickens (edited 11-19-2012).]

Knight MSG #574, 08-11-2012 07:41 PM
      Bump!

chasgas (sey256@tds.net) MSG #575, 09-17-2012 09:38 AM
      in reading several threads pertaining to the 3.4 motor, a question: will the ob1 run the 3.4 injectors (19 lb.)?

i intended to use the distributor from the original 2.8 with the ob1 ecm but am now reconsidering... i have the 95 camaro ecm from the donor and harness (entire engine hookup, cutoff under dash)... should i stick with the dis system? (i've installed the 2.8 lower intake, middle and upper intakes on the 3.4) several differences from the 3.4... will they work with dis?

i'm sure the answers are on this site SOMEWHERE, but i've yet to find them... thanks so much for the efforts put forth... very nice to see all this assistance with nary a sales pitch in sight!

87 gt

87 se (car receiving 3.4, motor is nearly ready for install... valve covers and brackets being cleaned and painted today)...

chasgas

looking forward to joining the "3.4 crowd".......................................

[This message has been edited by chasgas (edited 09-17-2012).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #576, 09-17-2012 05:55 PM
      The Fiero ECM will control the 3.4L injectors. BTW they are 17lbs.
To run the 3.4L ECM you have to redo the entire harness. The better way to do DIS is swap to the 7730 ECM and use the DIS code for that. (Do a search for 7730 swap)
If you want to go to DIS later save the DIS coil packs, you can leave the knock sensor in the block, save the fake cam plug, and save the purple/yellow wires that go from the knock sensor to the DIS pack.
Not many people have gone with the DIS setup, only a handfull of people.

Welcome to the 3.4L crowd




chasgas (sey256@tds.net) MSG #577, 09-17-2012 08:40 PM
      thanks sardonyx247... i remembered they had 2 lbs more thrust and another thread said to use the 2.8 injectors... couldn't figure why?.. i believe i'll go with my initial thought and use the 2.8 dist/ecm...

seems to me that would lower the 3.4's hp... kinda wondering if using the 2.8 intakes will also reduce the hp?..

think about it, if the 3.4 sfi puts out 160 hp as is, i would think changing it back to a distributor mpi engine has to decrease hp?

on a side note:
for those of you looking for a 3.4 (they disappear from our local yards very quickly), i placed a wanted ad in craig's list... within two days i had three to choose from... two wrecks and one hot rod looking to upgrade to a v8... i chose the adult driven wreck for $180 which included an extra set of heads just back from the local machine shop, wire harness and ecm... mains showed the most wear but were within specs, rod bearings were like new, 2 pistons removed and within specs, oil pump looked new, same for lifters and factory hone marks in the cylinders... $150 in gaskets, timing set, new fiero water pump (cooling direction)...

talk about a poor man's power plant... i can't believe a 95 motor with over a 150,000 miles was so clean and had absolutely no cylinder ridge... chevy quality improving or oil advancements? i'd bet on the oil...

chasgas


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #578, 09-18-2012 05:38 AM
      As far as the HP goes, just the bigger displacement, with the 2.8 at 135HP the ratio up to a 3.4 puts the HP at 163HP, so I don't see useing the Fiero stuff being a problem.

Good call on the craigslist want ad, here in Vegas we have no shortage of 3.4Ls when I go to the junk yard I never see less than a dozen 3.4s


chasgas (sey256@tds.net) MSG #579, 10-08-2012 11:11 AM
      forgive me if this has been discussed but how do i adjust the 3.4 (95) valve lash? i've read several different techniques and need some experienced advise... my chilton's only covers the fiero years..........................

thanks,

chasgas


Blacktree (m.blacktree@gmail.com) MSG #580, 10-08-2012 12:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ: On the upgrade crate motor, it looks like there's a plug where the crankshaft position sensor would go in the 93-95 Firebird/Camaro engine, does the crankshaft on the crate engine have the reluctor wheel on it for DIS ignition (or a Fiero swap with a 7730 ECM)?

 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: No, the S10 crate is made for a carb/distributor setup.

I'm sorry for the late response, but wanted to clear up some misinformation. GM did not make a special "reluctorless" crankshaft for the crate engine. It uses the standard production crankshaft, complete with reluctor wheel and notches. So you can pop out that plug, and install a crank position sensor if you want. And that's exactly what I did on my HT3.4 crate engine. I actually installed the whole DIS setup from a 3100 SFI V6.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 10-08-2012).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #581, 10-08-2012 05:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by chasgas:

forgive me if this has been discussed but how do i adjust the 3.4 (95) valve lash? i've read several different techniques and need some experienced advise... my chilton's only covers the fiero years..........................

thanks,

chasgas


You adjust it the same as a Fiero. The Haynes manual had good instructions on how to do it. I would think the Chiltons would be the same.
Basicly you make sure the lifter is off the cam lobe, take out zero lash, and then 1 1/2 turns.
The books will explain it more. If you need more detailed instructions, let me know.


chasgas (sey256@tds.net) MSG #582, 10-08-2012 07:00 PM
      thanks sardonyx247... appreciated...

remounting the starter on the opposite side of the block without the template or another set of hands was a "learning experience"... i never noticed the outer hole is on an angle (approximately 35 to 45 degrees)... i drilled the two holes with a hand drill and i've got to admit, that outer hole was difficult to start without it slipping down the angle... i assume the template includes some sort of "piece" that flattens it out... i thought about milling out an aluminum piece but decided against it... i threaded it from the angle side with no complications... works fine... someone with no or little experience in drilling (must be fairly precise) and tapping threads may want to consider whether to hire this work done (or at the minimum purchase the template)... just my opinion...

chasgas


mwzephyr (mwzephyr1@outlook.com) MSG #583, 10-25-2012 12:03 PM
      bump

Fantastic thread. So complete. Thanks
~Zep


labbe001 MSG #584, 10-30-2012 10:45 AM
      I used to have a link to a site that detailed the 3.4l swap from beginning to end. Had part numbers and everything required to do the 3.4l pr swap.....does anyone know what i'm talking about or can send me the link....i don't remember it having alot of pictures or anything like that but it was a very good write up....seems like i initially got the link here on the forum somewhere but can't find it now.....

i'm starting back on my 3.4l swap and hoping to complete.....i've been reading this thread but would also like a copy of that write-up as well if i can find it...the more info, the better


labbe001 MSG #585, 10-30-2012 10:51 AM
      Scratch that...i looked for about an hour before posting and what do ya know, found it as soon as i asked for help.....thanks

this is the link i was talking about

http://fiero34swap.eleventenths.org/



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #586, 04-22-2013 01:26 AM
      The Fiero Store now carries the 88 neutrally balanced flywheel needed for the 3.4 swap, at $59.95 Just FYI for everyone.

http://www.fierostore.com/P...px?s=54020&d=203&p=1


chasgas (sey256@tds.net) MSG #587, 09-01-2013 01:58 PM
      update: decided to install a 1982 (chevy s 10) distributor in my 3.4 instead of messing with the computer... after reading how several members have made their own intakes versus buying the two piece edlebrock, i also removed the factory aluminum intake from the donor 1982 s-10... i bored it out with a hand drill to basically a single plane intake... mounted an inch thick spacer between the intake and a carter afb 4 barrel and she fired right up... the 272 (if memory serves as it's been a while) crane cam gives the 3.4 a very distinctive sound... she ran pretty fair considering mouse nest pieces flew from the exhaust and it's only static timed... to do list grows yet again...

thanks so much to you guys for answering my questions and talking me through this process... special thanks to sardonyx247... (starter works great with no template)...

the 88 formula should be out of the garage and back in the driveway within the next couple of days... really looking forward to trying her out!!!

THANKS AGAIN,

chasgas

i apologize for no pics but by the time this self taught computer guy figured it out, well you know.......................................


chasgas (sey256@tds.net) MSG #588, 09-01-2013 01:59 PM
      oops...

[This message has been edited by chasgas (edited 09-01-2013).]

newfiejeff (jeff.jacobs@easternhealth.ca) MSG #589, 09-16-2013 11:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Racingman24:


I spy another Fiero in amongst all those Camaro's. Parts Car???


I spy a red Monza!!


my-fiero (s.van.dongen@philips.com) MSG #590, 10-08-2013 08:27 AM
      After a long time again worked on the 87 t-top
the car is almost ready and I can not wait for the engine to start
only ordered a few parts to get ready

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.


This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.


This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.



sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #591, 10-16-2013 08:43 PM
      Thats looks real nice.

my-fiero (s.van.dongen@philips.com) MSG #592, 10-22-2013 06:10 AM
      Some more work done

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.





This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.



This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

[This message has been edited by my-fiero (edited 10-28-2013).]

my-fiero (s.van.dongen@philips.com) MSG #593, 10-28-2013 08:28 AM
      Some more work done this weekend
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.





This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.





sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #594, 11-01-2013 01:36 PM
      Looks Good.
Make sure to tie back your S/S brake lines, like the factory ones are, so they don't rub on the tire.



my-fiero (s.van.dongen@philips.com) MSG #595, 11-05-2013 06:16 AM
      Thanks sardonyx247, I know the breakline is not ready (just for photo)

Here some photo's of the 355 front

First fitting









Dr. Trey (nck2@txstate.edu) MSG #596, 03-23-2014 09:07 PM
      I went ahead and Pm'ed you a question Moose.

bonezjustice (bonezjustice@gmail.com) MSG #597, 08-01-2014 04:45 PM
      I love this thread and have decide on doing this myself. I do have a couple of question?

1. will the performance 85-88 V6 Sprint Manifold Set With Heat Coating from the fiero store work with this build and is it worth the extra $600 for them.

2. do you use the fiero timing chain with this build, i have read this tread but, maybe I am not seeing where you talked about it.

3. does it matter if you use the fiero 2.8 heads or the 3.4 heads on this swap?


zzzhuh MSG #598, 10-16-2014 03:15 AM
      Bump it up!

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #599, 10-16-2014 05:22 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bonezjustice:

I love this thread and have decide on doing this myself. I do have a couple of question?

1. will the performance 85-88 V6 Sprint Manifold Set With Heat Coating from the fiero store work with this build and is it worth the extra $600 for them.

2. do you use the fiero timing chain with this build, i have read this tread but, maybe I am not seeing where you talked about it.

3. does it matter if you use the fiero 2.8 heads or the 3.4 heads on this swap?


#1 not sure I still can't justify the $600

#2 Yes, the 2.8 and 3.4 are the same chains, I went with the double roller myself.

#3 they are excactly the same heads, but swap heads from side to side, so you dont have to pull/swap out the REALLY hard plug to get out. IE have the plug on the firewall side and the hole/temp sensor on the trunk side.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #600, 02-01-2016 01:32 AM
      Post moved to next page to keep it all together. ----->

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 02-08-2016).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #601, 02-06-2016 03:13 AM
      Time to do another 3.4 swap, I haven't updated this thread for a bit, so I figured I would put of some pics of my current 3.4 swap.

It will be going in this pretty 85 GT (BTW this Fiero will be for sale once the swap is done)



A 90k 3.4 from this Camaro my friend Cris and I pulled it one Saturday, that was a fun day. Only took us a couple of hours.









While we were there I grabbed some 1.6 rockers. I love more HP.



And the 3.4 injectors.



I cleaned and flow tested the injectors, until they were a matched set and flowed even with a good pattern, My injector test setup, in the coffee can is a fuel pump, I have a switch for the injectors and used a scale to measure the flow.




The block before disassembly. This one looks GREAT.





Always marks the rods and caps before you take them out. Example, this was no 6.



And all the pistons out to be cleaned up and looked over.

They look AWESOME.


Here you can see the cam bearings had some wear, not too bad but some. You can see the copper under metal of the bearings.



So new cam bearings it got, how to change them is in this post. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/137103.html



Plus all new freeze plugs.





And new main bearings.



To plug the oil sensor from the 3.4 I used this plug as posted earlier in this thread.


[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 02-17-2016).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #602, 02-08-2016 03:46 AM
      This build is going slowish, so many Fieros to fix, so little time. And I am taking my time to make sure everything is right.
But lets continue.

Always mic the cam to make sure no lobes are worn.



And now some more pics on what's needs to be done on the 3.4 conversion.

Transfer the timing marks to the 3.4 balancer. Always line up this way and not face to face, line up the key ways and transfer the big grove. With a hacksaw or die grinder etc....






I like to paint mine as it adds a bit of detail and makes it real easy to see.





Now the A/C bracket, since the 3.4 block is missing one of the mounting points you simply tap out the strut mount and drill the bracket, I find a SBC flywheel bolt fits perfect, (and we have alot laying around) If you have an 88 just get the strut mount and a pre 88 A/C bracket.









If you use the 3.4 oil pan it needs to be dented in the corner, or the mount ground down, but when I took out my mounts and saw how twisted they become I don't want to weaken the mount in any way so I choose to dent the pan. Or just use the Fiero pan.



Now if it is going in an Auto it needs part of the block ground down, (not needed on a manual swap) I get a square and match the 2.8 block. Also drill out the hole with a 1/2 drill, needed both auto and man, as the Fiero uses a bolt going in from the other side.





And the oil filter plug/mount has to be moved from the 2.8 to the 3.4 using an allen socket.


To this empty hole on the 3.4



Drilling the starter into this side of the block, (more pics posted earlier in this thread of how to)
This is the part of the block that has to be drilled.


I use an old starter, or even a new one doesn't matter, but I take off the solenoid to be able to engage the teeth.


I hold it in place, as tight as I can as too far and the block is screwed, too close and it can be simply shimmed out.


I mark the end of the bolt with a paint marker and use that to mark the hole.





Drill the hole and a long 1/4 extension works well the tap the hole.



Put your first bolt in to hold the starter in place and drill you second hole.



After that you can bolt up the starter and use jumper cables and a battery to make sure it spins right and then shim as necessary.

I have lost count on how many of these swaps I have done but it is well over 30.
I don't take pics of them all, but decided to add a bunch this time as the thread hasn't been updated in a while


03Showbike (paul7009@aol.com) MSG #603, 02-10-2016 12:07 AM
      sardonyx247 knows what hes doing. He does awesome work on fieros!! Listen, watch and learn!

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #604, 02-10-2016 02:47 AM
      The block painted.
I use old 3.4 valve covers, oil filter, spark plugs etc to paint.



The 1.6 rockers, This should be good for another 11 HP, just by math alone. The 3.4 Camaro guys claim 15HP on roller tipped ones, so minus the roller part, should be 11 HP at the wheels.
A trick I figured out, if you tape up the intake when installing the lifters, it is easier to remove the tape than to clean off all the oil from the intake.



Where it says "do not cut" DO NOT CUT IT, if you forget and put in the pushrods, then do it over, not hard to readjust the valves.



Now the pushrods are in and the valves adjusted.
Remember zero lash then 1 and 1/2 turns.



The porting/gasket matching on the lower intake.




With the intake on.



Do I take too many pics?
Even if I do, more to come.

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 02-17-2016).]

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #605, 02-10-2016 02:50 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 03Showbike:

sardonyx247 knows what hes doing. He does awesome work on fieros!! Listen, watch and learn!


Thanks


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #606, 02-17-2016 03:37 AM
      The bottom of the middle intake, gasket matched porting.



The oil sender adapter, 5/16" to 1/4"



It replaces this plug on the 3.4





Now to plug the cam sensor hole, I got a 3/4in freeze plug, a tiny bit small,



But here is a simple solution, get a lug nut place it on the freeze plug and smack it with a hammer, it widens it out perfectly.



With a little RTV around the sides, installed, fits great.



The old knocking 2.8L out.



And the home for the new 3.4L.



Exhaust manifolds ported out, good for 8 HP.



The gaskets are from a 62' bug, fit perfect and look better. (With part number)



Always add Anti-seize to exhaust bolts in case you ever have to remove them later, they won't rust in.



And the exhaust manifolds on





The plastic vac lines were broke up a bit, so I made up some metal ones, they will last forever and not crack.



Installed


03Showbike (paul7009@aol.com) MSG #607, 02-17-2016 05:32 PM
      Looking really good. You do awesome work!! You truly are the Zen Master of Pontiac Fieros!!

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #608, 03-08-2016 12:36 AM
      Slow update on pics and only have a few.

Here is a good way to get out the pilot bushing out of the crank, as Camaro-Firebirds use them and Fieros don't
Tap it for a big bolt, and use a slide hammer or pry bar on the bolt.
(This one got crooked after the slide hammer and it wasn't in far, but didn't matter as it came out with no harm to the crank.)




And the engine and trans matted.






And as always, a great pic



ron768 (ronzrx11@msn.com) MSG #609, 03-20-2016 09:02 PM
      Looks like I will be working on a 3.4 for my car (85 SE 2M6) . Yesterday, she developed a knock at 197K miles. Mine will take some time as the 3.4 I found will need a complete rebuild. ( high miles) Thank you for posting all the info and pics. Other than the engine rebuild, mine should be about the same.

sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #610, 08-15-2016 03:11 AM
      Time for another 3.4 Swap

Here is the current one I am working on.
Very pretty car with very low miles.







The engine. The old 2.8





And out of the Fiero.







vitog44 MSG #611, 08-15-2016 12:39 PM
      Dave, I’m glad that I got hold of you when I moved from NY to Vegas. I want to thank you for helping me out with Fiero issues through the past two years. Your mechanical abilities and Fiero expertise is to be admired. I enjoy our conversations at the Fiero Yard and appreciate the opportunity to spruce up the engine cradle and parts before they go back in for the swap. I look forward to a faster car. Keep up the good work.

vitog44 MSG #612, 08-15-2016 07:56 PM
      Took some pics of the car apart and some of the new parts in boxes waiting for the transplant (conversion).

I spruced up the cradle and exhaust with high heat paint, cleaned up the parts that will be going with the new engine, enjoyed watching the fighter jets flying low overhead and had a great conversation with Dave... A great day at the Fiero Shop!


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #613, 08-20-2016 05:00 AM
      Poly cradle bushings installed.



The block back from the machine shop.





New pistons waiting to go in, this one was bored .20 over.



Pistons in and where it sits tonight.





vitog44 MSG #614, 08-20-2016 08:56 PM
      Another glorious afternoon at the Fiero Club. Had a chance to have a chat with Dave and clean the replacement tranny. The one in the car had low mileage but was making noise and a bad TCC. Dave found me another.
Before cleaning
and after.


lou_dias (loudfiero@gmail.com) MSG #615, 08-23-2016 01:18 PM
      Great thread. You should do one with a 3400 block and Camaro pistons so that people don't think it's voodoo. Since those GEN2 1.6 rockers work on iron heads, that makes that conversion about $250 cheaper than before...

lyleap-gmc (lyleap@centurylink.net) MSG #616, 11-24-2016 07:12 PM
      [QUOTE]Originally posted by sardonyx247:

Slow update on pics and only have a few.

Here is a good way to get out the pilot bushing out of the crank, as Camaro-Firebirds use them and Fieros don't
Tap it for a big bolt, and use a slide hammer or pry bar on the bolt.
(This one got crooked after the slide hammer and it wasn't in far, but didn't matter as it came out with no harm to the crank.)




Another easy way to remove the pilot bushing is to pack grease in the cavity behind the bushing. Using a rod that is a fairly close fit in the pushing drive it in, Hydraulics will push the bushing out.