IMSA widebody installation - Russ style
Topic started by: Russ544, Date: 08-29-2004 11:36 PM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000025.html


Russ544 MSG #1, 08-29-2004 11:36 PM
      Seems to be some interest in following along as I do this widebody kit, so I keep posting as long as people keep watching I guess. I'll be doing this a bit different than some others have in the past, and perhaps if it comes out well we can even talk Sage into re-doing the molds a bit to save others some work. IMHO a race inspired car should look like a race car, and those tiny wheel openings on the street version of the IMSA with 215x14 tires just dont look like race material to me so I'll be opening those up to allow for some serious rubber to meet the road. I also ordered my kit "wing deleat" and had Tedd make me up some 5" wing stands for a stock type wing.... but that's just my preference.
BTW: here is some info on the 4.3L Chev that powers the car:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/044164.html

So without further ado........... First we gota get nekid.

This has been covered numerous times so I won't go into how the old cloths come off, but it's a fairly simple matter and should only take about a half day for a first timer.



We'll be re-using the substructure from the rear clip and a small portion of the original skin. Start by cutting just deep enough to go through the skin without damaging the substructure under it. When I did this step I hadn't received the IMSA parts yet, so I left much more of the old skin than I needed to, but you'll want to cut closer to the red lines. It's hard to see in the photo, but all but about 1 1/2" on each end of the rear "tray" will be re-used as well.



Carefully pry loose the sides with whatever tools you have handy, but the key is to go slow and try to only sacrafice the old skin and not the substructure that needs to be re-used. Fortunatly the substructure seems to be a stronger material, so it's not as hard as it sounds.



A couple of alteration will need to be done to the rear bumper area. About 2" needs to be cut off each end to clear the mating flange where the rear fenders and rear facia join. A small portion of the rear facia support tray needs to come off also, and the old lower facia support hardware can hit the dumpster as well.
I found out the hard way that once the IMSA rear fenders and facia are permanently joined, it becomes imposible to remove the rear clip as you can no longer lift the rear of the clip up that few inches needed to free the three roof studs. You can laugh at me later when you see what I had to do to remove the bumper bolts with the clip on the car, but just trust me for the meantime and cut about a 2" x 6" piece out of the lower ends of the bumper where noted in green before you glue the parts together .



To be continued:

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-07-2009).]

Electrathon (arw62@aol.com) MSG #2, 08-29-2004 11:52 PM
      Russ,

Is that my old 85?

Cool build too. For those that are not aware Russ deos great looking work.

Aaron

gascarracer (ernestbauhofer@fuse.net) MSG #3, 08-30-2004 12:37 AM
      Great start. Keep up the good work.


Thanks!!!!




Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #4, 08-30-2004 01:54 AM
      Drooling so much over this one, I feel almost like I should be looking over my shoulder for the Vice Squad...great start, keep it coming. The fish will wait, and grow bigger in the meantime too...yeah, that's it...let dem fish grow.



NotAFieroAnyLonger (stelebla@aol.com) MSG #5, 08-30-2004 01:58 AM
      I love thread's like these... Thank's for sharing!!



FieroRumor (thedigitalalchemist@nyc.rr.com) MSG #6, 08-30-2004 04:24 PM
      Cool!

*adds this thread to favorites*

Russ544 MSG #7, 08-31-2004 12:39 AM
      Thanks guys.
I was gona use your 85 Aaron, but at the last minute I decided to use this 88 coupe I had laying around. this is also the car that I built and installed the 4.3L into, so it should be a fun ride
================

CHAPTER 2:

Before trial fitting of the rear fenders and facia begin you'll want to set them on the floor and carefully align the parts wile you drill 4 or 5 1/4" holes in each flange and bolt them together. it's much easier to do this off the car. When you're satisfied with the alignment of the parts you can remove the bolts and set them aside for now.

After setting what's left of the rear clip back on the car, you can begin trial fitting of the fenders and rear facia to locate areas of the substructure that will need slight trimming. The thickness of the new fiberglass parts require that you do some slight trimming of the substructure to allow them to fit over it. The areas that I found necessary to trim are noted in red. I removed the tab near the door ( the IMSA fenders have a tab that replaces this tabs function), and trimmed about 1/8" off the other areas. the red dots indicate that the area trimmed was on the inside edge and not actually visible in the photo. Each body will no doubt be slightly different, but this should give you the general idea.




The better the fit of the IMSA parts on the substructure the less bodywork will be required to fill any gaps and smooth the transitions, so spend plenty of time on this phase. When you have everything fitting as well as you think you can, install a couple bolts in each flange and check some more. fitting and adjusting until the parts feel like they belong together. Once the parts are glued together you can't come back and adjust anymore !!! When the parts fit on the substructure to your satisfaction it's time to reinstall the rear decklid to check the gaps between it and the fenders, and to locate the two screw holes in each side that retain the top of each fender. I placed a piece of tape over each of the original fender mounting holes on the chassis and drew a line on it to indicate center. At a marked distance out from the hole I drew a crosshair over the line so when the new fender is installed, and covers the hole, you still know exactly where the hole needs to be drilled in the IMSA fender to line up with the chassis hole (it's easier than I make it sound ). With the rear decklid installed you can check the gaps along the fenders, and when the're straight and equal on each side, you can drill the mounting holes in the fiberglass.




When you're comfortable with the fit of the parts on the substructure and have checked that the gaps at the door and rear deck are straight and not too wide or narrow, and holes are drilled in the top of the fender flange........ you're almost ready to commit to the glue. I highly recommend 3M panel bond adhesive #8115 (thanks for the tip Sage). It gives the needed working time to get everything aligned and provides excellent strength and flexibility. A special applicator is needed for this, but most automotive paint suppliers who sell this product will loan you the applicator gun. One 200ml cartridge will JUST be enough to join all of the rear clip components. (also available at handsontools.com if you prefer online purchase)

Place the substructure on the car and have all your tools, nuts and bolts, adhesive, cleaning solvent, rags, and whatever else you might need in a handy place next to the car so you don't have to chase all over for them wile the adhesive is setting up. You should have plenty of time to work, but not a great deal to spare chasing tools, so prepare for battle early.
The areas noted in yellow below are the only points that make contact between the substructure and the IMSA fenders, and are therefore also the places to place a generous amount of adhesive. Set one fender and quickly pull it off again to see where the adhesive has made contact. you can add more adhesive to areas now that didn't make contact. set the fender again and bolt on the rear facia using adhesive this time on the flanges, then on to the other fender. use clamps to hold the roof section in alignment and recheck for rear decklid and door alignment as you install the upper fender mounting bolts.
Once the rear clip is glued on you can take a day off to drink beer and watch the Speed Channel wile the adhesive cures. you earned it



[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-07-2009).]

gumert (gumert@epsilongraphics.com) MSG #8, 08-31-2004 01:02 AM
     
 
quote

sexy

[This message has been edited by gumert (edited 08-31-2004).]

Russ544 MSG #9, 08-31-2004 09:58 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by gumert:


sexy



It's gona get even better soon. note line around wheel opening

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-07-2009).]

MinnGreenGT (minngreengt@gmail.com) MSG #10, 08-31-2004 10:01 AM
      Excellent write-up ...keep 'em coming (we're watching)!



DPWood (dpwood@amtelecom.net) MSG #11, 08-31-2004 11:05 AM
      This has a seriously high cool factor. I've always loved the lines of the Fiero IMSA flares. Now I get to see every step that goes into the finished product. This thread goes into my favourites.

BIG + for you...

David



FieroMGDriver (mgdickey@gmail.com) MSG #12, 08-31-2004 01:05 PM
      What are your plans for the vents behind the doors? Mesh? Oil cooler, tranny cooler?



Will-Martin MSG #13, 08-31-2004 03:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


It's gona get even better soon. note line around wheel opening

Nice, that and chopping the top are the 2 things I would do to an IMSA Widebody.

Good job man!



R Runner (rrunner@windstream.net) MSG #14, 08-31-2004 09:56 PM
      Yeeeeesssssss! Nice. This is a great thread. I agree completely, it needs to look like a race car. Good for you!



Russ544 MSG #15, 08-31-2004 10:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by R Runner:

Yeeeeesssssss! Nice. This is a great thread. I agree completely, it needs to look like a race car. Good for you!

BTW R Runner, Are you using the 5 x 100 bolt pattern on your IMSA? I've been looking for some Nascar style rims like you're using but can't find anything with decent offset in the 5 x 100 pattern. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Russ

FieroMGdriver,
I haven't given a lot of thought to the fate of the fender vents, but I'll most likely open them up at some point. The 88 chassis I'm using has the fuel "burp" tank behind the right side and the fuel fill pipes behind the left, so that limits the vents functionality somewhat. From my experience with my SBC car I've found that it's very benificial to have all the cool air in the engine bay you can get, so that will most likely be the goal on this car as well however.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 08-31-2004).]

88GTFormula (tdbonner2012@gmail.com) MSG #16, 09-01-2004 12:50 AM
      Yea, This is in my favorites... like definatly... lol

I would like to do this, except with a chopped fastback...

~Tim



Russ544 MSG #17, 09-01-2004 10:13 PM
      CHAPTER 3:

After the adhesive has cured overnight, you can lift the rear clip back off for some finish work. Begin by checking to see that the adhesive has made good contact at all points, and add more to fill any gaps. I used 3M #8227 SMC/Fiberglass adhesive for this as it has a much faster cure time than the panel adhesive. The fender/rear Facia below the rear flange needs to be joined with a bit of fiberglass and resin (note red arrow), and you can place a small reinforcement inside the exposed roof seam edges with the leftovers as well.




This is a good time to do some body work to fill and smooth the exterior seams, and clean up any raged fiberglass edges. The inner sail panels may need some minor fitting and trimming of the edge that mates up with the new fiberglass, but 10 minutes with a bench grinder should take care of both sides.
BTW: If you forgot to cut out the notch on the lower ends of the rear bumper as noted back in chapter 1, I've convieniently drilled 1 1/2" holes in the rear of this clip just to point out where the holes need to be drilled to gain access to the bumper bolts you'll need to take out in order to remove the rear clip once it's all permanently joined together........ Not that I would ever forget to do that myself




I'll be doing a couple modifications on the rear clip at this point which aren't part of the normal installation, but that's why I call this "Russ style". As I mentioned earlier, I want to open up the wheelwells in order to install some larger tires. The size hasn't been finalised yet, but this looks about right to me:




I also plan to extend the fuel fill pipe in order to bring it back up to the level of the new flared fender, and trim open the IMSA fiberglass in order to reinstall the stock Fiero flip open fuel door. I have a 4 day weekend coming up, so perhaps I'll get those things taken care of and written up soon.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-07-2009).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #18, 09-01-2004 10:17 PM
      Mitsubishi Eclipse gas cap? Those look cool

You ought to have enough extra width to run 335/35-17's



Russ544 MSG #19, 09-01-2004 10:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Mitsubishi Eclipse gas cap? Those look cool

You ought to have enough extra width to run 335/35-17's

Sounds good to me . But first I need to find some Nascar style rims in the offset and width I need.
BTW. I like the last line of your sig. Wasn't it a race driver who once said, when acused of just being a lucky winner: "yes, and the more I practice, the luckier I get".


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #20, 09-02-2004 09:08 AM
      Have you figured out the width and offset yet? According to WCF, a 17x9-45 will fit the stock suspension and body work. Based on looking at my car, I think a 17x9-38 would work as well. You've got 4 extra inches of width on each side, right? 9+4 = 13... which is pretty good for a 335. The resulting offset would be about 60mm in the opposite direction, or 17x13+60 (maybe +55ish). That's a pretty wild wheel. The positive offset will reduce wheel bearing loads in hard cornering.



Russ544 MSG #21, 09-02-2004 10:05 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Have you figured out the width and offset yet? According to WCF, a 17x9-45 will fit the stock suspension and body work. Based on looking at my car, I think a 17x9-38 would work as well. You've got 4 extra inches of width on each side, right? 9+4 = 13... which is pretty good for a 335. The resulting offset would be about 60mm in the opposite direction, or 17x13+60 (maybe +55ish). That's a pretty wild wheel. The positive offset will reduce wheel bearing loads in hard cornering.

I haven't determined wheel sizes yet, but I need to take some time and do that here pretty soon. I may end up making or buying wheel adaptors so I can get wheels of my liking on the 5 x 100 pattern. The original 84 race IMSA had 345 35 15 on the rear and 225 60 15 on the front, so I've been kind of using that as a general guide as to what fits and looks right.

MinnGreenGT (minngreengt@gmail.com) MSG #22, 09-02-2004 11:08 AM
      Lookin' great... about the gas door thing. I had originally planned on using an Izuzu VehiCross (aircraft-style) gas door (it's flatter and closer in size/shape than the Audi or Eclipse doors), but have since changed my mind. LMK if you're interested - I paid around $75-$85 for the parts I've got... I'd let 'em go for about $25 shipped.


http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20020511-1-012834.html


2.8-4spd (forreste01@hotmail.com) MSG #23, 09-02-2004 08:47 PM
      Minngreen GT iF they they dont want it, I will take it, do you take paypal?

Russ544 MSG #24, 09-02-2004 11:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.8-4spd:

Minngreen GT iF they they dont want it, I will take it, do you take paypal?

No problem Minn. I already have other plans for my system, so if you want to sell this go ahead.
Thanks for the offer however.

Russ

MinnGreenGT (minngreengt@gmail.com) MSG #25, 09-03-2004 09:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

No problem Minn. I already have other plans for my system, so if you want to sell this go ahead.
Thanks for the offer however.

No problem... just though I'd offer. I'm Looking forward to seeing more pics of your work!

 
quote
Originally posted by 2.8-4spd:

Minngreen GT iF they they dont want it, I will take it, do you take paypal?

Looks like it's yours (I got your email as well). You can PayPal to that same address...

Russ544 MSG #26, 09-03-2004 09:42 PM
      CHAPTER 4:
(The "Russ style" part)

In order to enlarge the wheelwells a small air reciprocating saw makes quick work of the fiberglass:




To replace the lip, A thin piece of sheet aluminum is hammered to form a "mold" to support the new glass and resin. By rolling the edge, the contours can easily be blended into the fender, eliminating a lot of grinding and filling later on. An old sign provides a good source for cheep aluminum of suitable thickness, and is easily formed to the proper curve and taped onto the wheel opening after spraying the back side with wax:




Once the form has been set, and fully taped, you can flip the rear clip right side up again and lay in several layers of glass onto the form, and an inch or two up the side. Pretty simple actually, and after it cures for a day I'll pull off the tape and aluminum strip and do some bondo work to finish it off.

Now THIS is a proper size wheelwell for a "race" car

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-07-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #27, 09-04-2004 10:38 PM
      CHAPTER 4 +
Although it feels like I worked plenty hard enough, I didn't seem to make much headway today. I am, however, pretty happy with the results of the fiberglass work on the wheelwells. After the aluminum strips came off, It didn't take too much body work to smooth out the minor irregularities and fill a few small voids. It does, however, make me appreciate just how good the fiberglass work is that Tedd (Sage) did on this body kit. I've yet to find a void in his layup bigger than a pin head or two. Pretty amazing IMHO.



[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-07-2009).]

BtotheB (b.cathrae@gmail.com) MSG #28, 09-05-2004 10:37 AM
      Very cool thread. I love seeing this kinda stuff coming together... good stuff!

Brad



gascarracer (ernestbauhofer@fuse.net) MSG #29, 09-12-2004 11:55 AM
      Whats up? Is this on hold. I am really interested in this thred. Plan to do this sooner or later.



Russ544 MSG #30, 09-12-2004 05:55 PM
      No huge progress to report for this week as I've had a lot of other business to attend to.... and not much time to devote to the important stuff .....
I did get the finish body work on the rear clip pretty much done however..... seams molded in etc.. I also managed to get the hood vents cut in and in primer, and I've opened up the front wheel wells about an equal amout as I did to the rears. The fronts don't have the flanges in yet as I forgot to order more resin last week, and I refuse to use the stuff you can buy at Wally world etc.. "If it's worth doing.... it's worth doing right".
The car will get lowered, as well as receiving fatter rubber on wide rims, but with some imagination it's getting easier to see what it's becoming now.





Stay tuned for updates. don't give up on me just yet

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-07-2009).]

fierogt4e (fierogt4e@juno.com) MSG #31, 09-13-2004 12:55 AM
      WOW!!!!
HOLY SH##
You have blown my F&&&ing mind.
I have also done this to my IMSA (85 GT/4E)
I am very excited to see another person customizing and updating this body style
I realy want to see what you will do next to refine the body and thanks for showing it to us.
VERY cool indead !


Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #32, 09-13-2004 02:43 AM
      Can you say Bad-axe notchback??? Nice pix...I like the blue and white too...

Back to our host...take it away, Russ...



Russ544 MSG #33, 09-17-2004 10:15 PM
      Another abbreviated chapter today, but I have two days ahead of me with no obligations other than working on the IMSA project so perhaps a better chapter will follow by Monday.
Today I worked out a solution for the fuel filler, which with the IMSA fender becomes recessed about 4" deeper, and lacks any provision for an outer fuel door. my trusty air reciprocating saw was used to remove the abbreviated cup provided (taped back into the fender for this photo).

I wanted to utilize the Fiero flipper door, so some modifications were in order. I first thought of extending the metal fuel tube, but upon more detailed investigation I found it to be more work than I was willing to devote to it. The new filler opening doesn't line up with the old filler well enough to simply extend the metal pipe without a tricky curve. but by carefully removing most of the bottom of the fuel filler "cup", ......

there is now room to reach the fuel cap without too much effort.
The areas originally used to secure the fuel cup to the fender are now out of reach, so I plan to bond my modified fuel cup, which retains areas used to support the cover latch and hinge mechanisms, to the fiberglass fender with the same 3M body panel adhesive used to attach the substructure to the rear clip fiberglass. Now when the filler door gets reinstalled everything will function the same as the stock unit, compleat with interior door release.


<front facia and fender installations come next>

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-07-2009).]

NotAFieroAnyLonger (stelebla@aol.com) MSG #34, 09-18-2004 02:34 AM
      Lookin' GREAT Russ!!



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #35, 09-18-2004 07:39 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
The areas originally used to secure the fuel cup to the fender are now out of reach, so I plan to bond my modified fuel cup, which retains areas used to support the cover latch and hinge mechanisms, to the fiberglass fender with the same 3M body panel adhesive used to attach the substructure to the rear clip fiberglass. Now when the filler door gets reinstalled everything will function the same as the stock unit, compleat with interior door release.

Just out of curiosity, once you do that, are you going to be able to remove the rear clip, should it be required at some point in the future?



Russ544 MSG #36, 09-18-2004 10:20 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Just out of curiosity, once you do that, are you going to be able to remove the rear clip, should it be required at some point in the future?

Yes. even though it's bonded to the body panel now, the fuel filer "cup" has had it's base removed so it no longer captures the metal fuel filler tube (plus the metal filler is now below where the base was anyway). The three sheet metal screws which retain the metal fuel tube to the rear clip substructure can still be removed if one should need to pull the rear clip.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-18-2004).]

gascarracer (ernestbauhofer@fuse.net) MSG #37, 09-18-2004 11:52 AM
      You are doing a fantasic job. Keep it comming. Thanks.



blackrams (blackrams7@aol.com) MSG #38, 09-18-2004 04:53 PM
      Outstanding thread, has given me several ideas that may get used on my Pantero project. Hope you don't mind. The gas filler is one that I've been trying to figure out. Keep up the great work.



Russ544 MSG #39, 09-18-2004 06:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:

Outstanding thread, has given me several ideas that may get used on my Pantero project. Hope you don't mind. The gas filler is one that I've been trying to figure out. Keep up the great work.

Glad to hear people are getting some usefull info and ideas out of this.
The process of observing others creations and then devising "but I'd do this part a little different here" ideas is what hot rodding is all about IMHO.


Russ544 MSG #40, 09-18-2004 11:40 PM
      CHAPTER 7
Not a bad day........ The front wheel openings received an enlargement similar to the rears, but the same process as used on the rear, with the temporary aluminum strip "molds", was used to replace the lip in the front wheel opening so I won't repeat those details.

Wile the resin set up on the fenders I went ahead and permanently secured the rear clip. It took 18 1/4" rivets and 7 bolts, + the 8 bolts/nuts that hold the rear facia and fenders to one another, so she's solid as a rock now !

I had originally intended to paint the parts individually, but for a variety of reasons I've decided to change my assembly process, requireing that I paint everything except the front and rear decklids wile on the car. One reason for the change is that I've decided to permanently attach the lower rockers to the front and rear fenders, and fill in the gaps, for a smooth look. also, I've had some trouble with bondo cracking at the upper B piller joint each time the rear clip is removed and replaced on the car, so painting it wile installed seems like a better idea today .
Wile I had the front clip setting on the car doing preliminary checks, I found that the hood opening is almost 1/4" too wide on each side, so it will be necessary to epoxy a strip of fiberglass onto each side of the hood and fill/sand for an acceptable gap...... I'm getting ahead of myself however as that may still be a few chapters down the road......


<to be continued>

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-07-2009).]

fierogt4e (fierogt4e@juno.com) MSG #41, 09-22-2004 11:50 PM
      Russ I Love following along, good pictures, thanks! The hole thing brings back fond memories of my original install. I started my car back around 1990 then bought a new home and had to build a garage so I could finish the project.

One thing I did on my Original install that is not necessary for your permanent installation is the use of riv-nuts. Riv-nuts (and by other names) are large rivets that are threaded on the inside allowing the use of bolts where you can not get to the area behind for a nut, for any that do not know. I used -20s in the door opening and under the sail panels among other places, with button head screws in them. Neat and easily removed.

This will make it easer to get the rear clip off for other builders that may wish to. Another mod. I made to help simplify the removal of the rear clip was to the stock panel at the rear of the roof. The small stock section that you reuse has a couple of small humps for indexing, that I ground flat. Then I slotted the holes at the very front edge of this part and enlarged the hole diameter to clear washers I used to maintain the space between the roof and the dill-and-mill pads on the chassis. With these mods you can pull the rear clip strait back with the front roof panel, interior, and bumper in place.

The draw back is you can not fill the seems with any thing but silicone. You will be exchanging smoothness for serviceability and reparability a tuff call in anyones book I think.


As for filling and smoothing the seems I prefer a somewhat labor intensive method. I use a 3 sanding disk on a angle grinder (rite angel dia grinder) to grinder thru the gel cote and form a channel about half the thickness of the glass deep and 1 wide. Then fill the channel back in with glass mat and resin. Use wider strips of matt first then successively narrower strips as needed. Grind the cured glass back to just below the surface of the panels being joined then cover with gel cote or filler.

Possibly the trickiest spot on the seems to do well is were the front fender meats the facia forming a square corner for the hood, extra effort is needed there. As you should come over the edge and across the flange as well as along the front edge.

I hope this helps someone and offends no one.

And thanks again Russ

George



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #42, 09-23-2004 05:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
I've had some trouble with bondo cracking at the upper B piller joint each time the rear clip is removed and replaced on the car

Speaking of panel flex (which you were, kinda)...

Would it be possible to have the front and rear fascae made in urethane instead of glass fibre? That way we wouldn't have to worry quite as much about having a rigid (and thus easily cracked) fascia at each end of the car.

Also, would Sage be willing to modify the molds to incorporate the larger wheel openings that you made? If the parts were molded with larger wheel openings, then they'd have basically the same trim strips as a stock Fiero, and the molds could be further modified to make the panels accept factory trip strips... Thoughts?



Russ544 MSG #43, 09-23-2004 08:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Speaking of panel flex (which you were, kinda)...

Would it be possible to have the front and rear fascae made in urethane instead of glass fibre? That way we wouldn't have to worry quite as much about having a rigid (and thus easily cracked) fascia at each end of the car.

I don't think that would be possible (anything is possible, but I mean within reason) due to the way the fenders join the facia. Also the wider fenders wouldn't meet up very well with the OEM facia.
I don't see where the rear soft facia would be a benifit actually, and the front ones always seem to be warped on top and not very attractive anyway. One area that I do have on my agenda however it to try and use the more speedbump friendly "skitime" type air dam. I haven't actually tried to fit it up yet, but I'm hoping that the stock lower facia will flex out enough to meet the wider IMSA nose piece OK. I'll be finding that out before too long and will of course pass that info along in this thread.

 
quote

Also, would Sage be willing to modify the molds to incorporate the larger wheel openings that you made? If the parts were molded with larger wheel openings, then they'd have basically the same trim strips as a stock Fiero, and the molds could be further modified to make the panels accept factory trip strips... Thoughts?

Perhaps Sage will answer that himself, but I've mentioned to him that the larger wheelwells would certainly be a welcome change for many potential buyers, and he did say he agreed and might be willing to make new molds for that at some point if there were enough interest. Perhaps with more input from you and others, he can be further persuaded It is pretty simple to enlarge the wheelwells as I have, but of course if you planned to use inner wheel tubs those will need to be fabricated as well, as the glass extentions supplied wouldn't work with enlarged openings (which is why I ordered my kit without them to begin with). I most likely will make/modify some for my enlarged wheelwells, but the tubs actually aren't vital to the kit anyway IMO.
The trim is molded into the IMSA body panels and can't be changed.

Russ


Russ544 MSG #44, 09-23-2004 09:08 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierogt4e:

Russ I Love following along, good pictures, thanks! The hole thing brings back fond memories of my original install. I started my car back around 1990 then bought a new home and had to build a garage so I could finish the project.

One thing I did on my Original install that is not necessary for your permanent installation is the use of riv-nuts. Riv-nuts (and by other names) are large rivets that are threaded on the inside allowing the use of bolts where you can not get to the area behind for a nut, for any that do not know. I used -20s in the door opening and under the sail panels among other places, with button head screws in them. Neat and easily removed.

This will make it easer to get the rear clip off for other builders that may wish to. Another mod. I made to help simplify the removal of the rear clip was to the stock panel at the rear of the roof. The small stock section that you reuse has a couple of small humps for indexing, that I ground flat. Then I slotted the holes at the very front edge of this part and enlarged the hole diameter to clear washers I used to maintain the space between the roof and the dill-and-mill pads on the chassis. With these mods you can pull the rear clip strait back with the front roof panel, interior, and bumper in place.

The draw back is you can not fill the seems with any thing but silicone. You will be exchanging smoothness for serviceability and reparability a tuff call in anyones book I think.


As for filling and smoothing the seems I prefer a somewhat labor intensive method. I use a 3 sanding disk on a angle grinder (rite angel dia grinder) to grinder thru the gel cote and form a channel about half the thickness of the glass deep and 1 wide. Then fill the channel back in with glass mat and resin. Use wider strips of matt first then successively narrower strips as needed. Grind the cured glass back to just below the surface of the panels being joined then cover with gel cote or filler.

Possibly the trickiest spot on the seems to do well is were the front fender meats the facia forming a square corner for the hood, extra effort is needed there. As you should come over the edge and across the flange as well as along the front edge.

I hope this helps someone and offends no one.

And thanks again Russ

George

Thanks for the tips George. The process of grinding out the joints and using glass is probably an especially good idea. I didn't do that, so time will tell if cracks show up in mine eventually. I did use plenty of panel adhesive in the joint as it was being bolted together however
BTW George. what happened to the photo of your car in your previous post?

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-23-2004).]

fierogt4e (fierogt4e@juno.com) MSG #45, 09-23-2004 10:39 PM
      Russ,
I actually posted about 9 photos to show some of the parallels to what you are doing, that is using this kit as a starting point and not the end product. However I began to think of the dial up and I also did not wish to take over your thread so I took them off.
.
This is the third time I have altered the car. I call it a GT/4E (4th edition) stock being the first. On 3E (white with blue) I installed the IMSA kit and made many changes to it but did not open the wheel wells. This tine around I am making a grate many more changes and the wheel wells are just one. Also included this time, it has been shaved and sectioned

Thanks
George



exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #46, 09-23-2004 11:34 PM
     
Great thread Russ !

Thanks for letting us watch in on an amazing project coming to life.


Russ544 MSG #47, 09-27-2004 10:43 PM
      CHAPTER 8:
This weekend the attention turns mostly to several "accessory" items.
With the front wheel openings compleated, and with the panel adhesive curing on the front fenders/facia joints, I began work on a flexable air dam (aka Skitime). It wasn't certain that this would flex out enough to work on the widebody nose, but by the time all the "extra" material gets removed from the urathane aero nose, it becomes flexable enough to form into just about any shape you want it .In fact it becomes so flexable that it's much easier to do the final trimming after it gets mounted to the IMSA facia and becomes a little less of a wet noodle. A pop rivet every 6" or so, with large backup washer, seems about right. to secure it to the lower lip where it can easily be trimmed down to its finished size and the edges sanded smooth.
You might also notice the metal strip on the upper lip of the facia below. this is the Fieros origianal top facia retaining strip which the lip of the flexable facia was screwed to. By slotting out the screw holes that attach it to the spaceframe, and riveting the strip onto the lip of the IMSA nose, a good solid system is formed to attach the IMSA nose to the chassis. With the mounting holes slotted out, a degree of adjustability becomes possible to assist in squaring up the hood opening and for adjusting for the upper door/fender gaps.




During the air dam project I began to think of ways to improve the airflow to the radiator. one thought led to another and a pretty cool project began to develop.
By cutting out part of the upper section of the remains of the aero nose:


And flipping it upside down:


Then by standing on one foot and squinting with your left eye crossed, you'll begin to see it morph into the form of a lower radiator air deflector . The part that was once the sides of the turn signal opening have now become support members that just happen to be spaced the perfect distance apart to mate up to the stock Fiero rubber/plastic ductwork near the sides of the radiator (yellow arrows).
A couple pop rivets and a strip of fiberglass (green arrow below) secure the cleaned and painted deflector to the lower radiator support, wile one or two aditional rivets per side tie the sides to the existing Fiero ductwork.
As measured from the mounting flange this one is 3 1/4" high which seems about right for most cars.
Where do I get the patent

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-08-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #48, 09-27-2004 11:28 PM
      CONT:
I was so happy with the results of my front vents on the sbc project that I'm building a duplicate for this car, and most likely for every non-restored car I build from here on. To me they just look like they belong on a Fiero, but maybe I'm just being paternal
The bottom of the donor hood was really scratched up and dirty so after the glass work on the vents was smoothed up a bit, the whole underside got sanded and a new coat of semi flat black Krylon applied.



The lower Gfx are just setting in place in this photo below, as I've been doing lots of sheetmetal "adjusting" on the door sill with a ball peen hammer, as well as plenty of fiberglass grinding and cursing. I'm sure I'll have more to say about these pieces in a future chapter, as fitting these things in here has turned out to be a bit of a challenge .


<until next weekend>

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-08-2009).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #49, 09-27-2004 11:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
The trim is molded into the IMSA body panels and can't be changed.

I know it's molded into the panels, but if the molds are being changed to go to the larger wheel wells, how hard would it be to change them to get rid of the trim and set the panel edges up like stock as well? Then the panels could be screwed/glued together just like stock panels and the stock trim applied to them... I think that would lead to a better integrated wide body kit...



MinnGreenGT (minngreengt@gmail.com) MSG #50, 09-28-2004 12:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

By cutting out part of the upper section of the remains of the aero nose:
http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL7/1543635/5114421/68029135.jpg

And flipping it upside down:
http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL7/1543635/5114421/68029127.jpg

Then by standing on one foot and squinting with your left eye crossed, you'll begin to see it morph into the form of a lower radiator air deflector . The part that was once the sides of the turn signal opening have now become support members that just happen to be spaced the perfect distance apart to mate up to the stock Fiero rubber/plastic ductwork near the sides of the radiator (yellow arrows).
A couple pop rivets and a strip of fiberglass (green arrow below) secure the cleaned and painted deflector to the lower radiator support, wile one or two aditional rivets per side tie the sides to the existing Fiero ductwork.
As measured from the mounting flange this one is 3 1/4" high which seems about right for most cars.
Where do I get the patent
http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL7/1543635/5114421/68029120.jpg

Genius idea on this one! I knew I kept the rest of that old fascia around for a reason!

Russ544 MSG #51, 10-01-2004 11:27 PM
      CHAPTER 9

Today I pulled off the door skin, as several tasks were easier to accomplish with it removed. One task was to repair the lower hinge. I had cleverly taken a lower hinge off a parts car several days ago and taken it to work with me so I could fabricate a new detent roller on my lathe, and replace the hinge pins. Except for the mental trauma of dealing with that dang spring, I was really proud of the way it came out, and sure that I was saving a bunch of weekend time by doing it this way.......... Do you know the saying about "the best layed plans"? Much to my disgust, I discovered today that the bolt holes on a lower hinge from an 84 don't line up with those from an 88 . One of these days I swear I'm gona' pour a can of gas on that damn 84 and burn it to the ground wile throwing rocks at it and chanting "burn baby burn" .... anyway.... I was able to remove the new pin I made from the 84 hinge and install it in the 88, so it wasn't a total loss.
This car will be going from black to white, so having the skins off provided a good opportunity to sand and paint the doors edges and other hard to mask areas. The outer door handle and the little piece of trim behind it need to be installed with the skin off, so it's a good time to remove the round trim and install ribbed after painting behind those areas as well.


As I mentioned last weekend, I had quite a time getting the drivers side lower Gfx to fit to my satisfaction. Unfortunately I didn't take a decent photo of the problem area, but what it was, was that the ends of the lower Gfx piece didn't mate up with the corresponding areas of the front or rear fenders very well. Now this was in no way the fault of the way Sage made the parts, as he just pulls parts from the molds he has to work with. My guess is that IRM knew that these areas would need some grinding anyway, due to variations in each car, so they weren't too concerned with fit and finish on those points. Each car is a little different, and the length needs to be adjusted to get correct door/fender gaps. Unfortunately nobody told Sage or myself about this, so by the time the ends were ground down enough to get the door gaps reasonable, and the parts themselves mating up properly, it was necessary to grind almost clear through the ends in several places, which left them too weak to support the mounting hardware. I added 4 layers of glass mat to the inside of each end of mine, and I think Sage will be building future parts thicker in this area now that we know what to expect. After being built up inside, riv-nuts can be installed in each end to secure them to the fenders. Pop rivets will also be used in the flange under the car, and in the top, similar to the stock Fiero parts.
Sage offered to build me new Gfx pieces at no cost to me, but I figure that these things are just part of the "guinea pig clause" in my contract for this project . That's the main reason I got the good guy deal from Doug on this kit. this is the first IMSA out of these molds in many years, so we all expected there would be some problems to solve along the way.



We didn't know about the lower Gfx issue at the onset, but we did know that something needed to be done for upper Gfx pieces.
At one time IRM made these kits with full fiberglass door skins with the Gfx molded in similar to the fenders, but for some reason they decided to begin using stock door skins and add the IMSA Gfx to them. the problem is,... however they accomplished that task is apparently lost under the dust of time, as no provision for attaching them was provided to Doug or Sage with the rest of the IRM molds. Once again Sage came to the rescue with a truly excellent solution. by using the stock GT/SE Gfx trim retaining strip and adding a return on the back of the IRM trim, a simple and effective method to retain the top of the trim was created. for the bottom Sage simply added several inches of glass so it will now reach under the door skin where it's attached into the bottom of the door via pop rivets.



Now all I have to do tomorrow is just what I did today........ except on the passenger side .

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-08-2009).]

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #52, 10-02-2004 10:00 AM
      Ver nice job. I've always loved the IMSA look. One question... since the round rib is molded into the fender and quarter panels, are you planning on molding the trim on the doors to match?

Keep up the great work,



Russ544 MSG #53, 10-02-2004 12:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfixit58:

Ver nice job. I've always loved the IMSA look. One question... since the round rib is molded into the fender and quarter panels, are you planning on molding the trim on the doors to match?

Keep up the great work,


One of the first questions I ask Sage when we were discussing the door skin situation was "how will I match the look of the trim on the door to the molded-in trim on the rest of the car?" The conclusion was that there are a couple of ways to make a more perfect match if a person wants to. You could permanently attach the door trim and fill in the gap on each side of it; or scribe a groove along the sides of the molded in trim to make it look like a separate piece; or lay a pinstripe with a slight contrast on either side of the trim to simulate a gap. Now that I've actually seen the parts in person I have to agree with Sage on this one however. from 5 feet away you don't notice the difference in the real and "fake" trim anyway, so I most likely won't alter it at all. I do plan to paint all the trim black however.
All the molded on trim on the IMSA is of the ribbed style btw, even on the fastback body style I believe. I personally prefer the ribbed trim anyway, but if you wanted the round it wouldn't be to hard to fill in the grooves in the ribbed IMSA molding to creat your own round trim. The beauty of fiberglass is that you can pretty much creat anything you want to with it.

Cheers,
Russ


Russ544 MSG #54, 10-02-2004 06:02 PM
      BONUS ROUND:



Today is a rerun of yesterday in the IMSA garage, with the exception that it's happening on the opposite side of the car, so I'll throw this in instead.
The door trim is easily removed, with the exception of the little piece behind the door handle. that one piece is retained by a single screw that goes in from the back side of the door skin. To get to it you can remove the door skin........ or simply drill a small hole (note green arrow) in the door to access the phillips head screw.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-08-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #55, 10-03-2004 11:39 PM
      CHAPTER 10

It's been a productive weekend . Both doors were gutted, sanded and edge painted, Gfx trim installed and the drivers door lower hinge repaired. As I mentioned the other day, Sage came up with a really clever solution to mounting the Gfx on the door skins, which are now installed as well. This is what it looks like from the bottom with a couple of the rivets installed.
It works great Tedd. plenty of room under the door for them without hitting the lower Gfx or door sill.


Even though this is a "race inspired" car, some concessions had to be made for street legality, such as installing side marker lights, license plate mounting, and rear license plate lights. Those parts were confiscated from a parts car and holes drilled and riv-nuts installed for there future installation after the car gets painted. Holes were drilled to receive the rear reflectors as well.
It was time to clean my shop and regroup by late Sunday, so wile the car was outside it received a good BonAmi water and scotch pad scrubbing to remove any remaining mold release, greasy fingerprints and other stray crud.


I still need to finalize a rear decklid, which needs a bit more air cleaner clearance and hot air extraction, but I can see a day when paint will be sprayed before too much longer .
A machinist friend of mine will be making some steel wheel adaptors for me. I gave up on finding the style wheels I wanted with the correct backspacing, width, diameter, etc., so I'm converting to a more common Chev 5 x 4.75 bolt pattern. I wouldn't trust those aluminum wheel adaptors as far as I could throw one, but these steel ones will be super strong.

Now I need to go back to work so I can relax for a few days

<til next weekend>,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-08-2009).]

Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #56, 10-04-2004 12:18 AM
      That is looking fantastic Russ! Glad the door strips worked out, I DID have some doubt, not having installed any myself, but knew that if they COULD work, you WOULD make them work, nice job.

Can't tell you how gratifying it is to see this thing come together. There was never any doubt about your being able to do it in my mind, but it's still very satisfying to see it happening. Am really enjoying your installments and look forward to the next chapter as soon as I'm done viewing the last one for the 7th time! Your trials and tribulations will be of immense value in building the next kit, and hopefully avoiding some of the same pitfalls for the next builder of an IMSA wide body. Thanks for that too!

Keep up the great work and thanks for taking it easy on me for the idiosyncrasies of the kit that I really had no control over. You are doing a fantastic job, as was anticipated. Thanks for doing this thread too, I'm sure from some of the other responses, I'm not the only one getting into it.

Have a good one!


Blacktree (m.blacktree@gmail.com) MSG #57, 10-04-2004 12:26 AM
      This thread ROCKS! I've always liked the IMSA widebodies. And Russ is doing a fantastic install job.

fierogt4e (fierogt4e@juno.com) MSG #58, 10-04-2004 10:25 PM
     
Russ your attention to details and to the fit of the kit has inspired me to take another look at the fit of my GT/4E (modified IMSA) to see if I can use some of your tips to make it better.

I check your thread every day.

You mention that you may do something for hot air extraction. I refer to the scoops on my rear deck as air extractors. They also move the wing up and back to get it into a cleaner air stream and reduce air from the engine compartment from corrupting it. (I think)

It mite not be your cup of tee but check it out.
.



boristheblade MSG #59, 10-04-2004 11:31 PM
      Very nice George, I like.
It looks like it hasn't been getting any attention lately though .


Russ544 MSG #60, 10-04-2004 11:58 PM
      Hey Geroge,


The rear decklid vents/wing stands you made are defiantly unusual. I like it ! I would have never thought of doing it that way but I imagine it works quite well by getting the vents back far enough to get back into the airflow where they can create some vacuum.
I do already have a plan for mine however. In fact you may find that by the time I mention a specific portion of my project I've most likely been thinking about it for quite some time. I tend to do most of my "development work" in my head, with quite a bit of detail, before making any mention of it . About a year ago, when I was working on my sbc project, I built a plug and a mold for rear decklid "scoops" that would bolt onto an 84 style decklid in place of the vent section. My idea was to develop a system that any novice could just bolt on without any glass work involved. I was never totally satisfied with the shape, so it kind of got put on the back burner......... until now. I did pull one scoop from my mold and install it on my sbc project, but it still needs some reshaping to satisfy my vision of what it should look like. I don't have a decent photo of the finished and painted product but here's the raw part as it came out of the mold, sitting on an 84 decklid.



Part of that same sbc project involved making a fairly elaborate fan system to pump cool air into the engine compartment.

It does work excellent on that car, but I'm beginning to think along the lines of not using a fan, but rather just opening up the side IMSA vents and running flexable ducts back into the engine compartment. perhaps even utilizing a sealed cool air box surrounding the carb, but that part isn't fully "developed" yet .

So was your Widebody made by IRM? What engine are you running in it?....... interesting exhaust system

Cheers,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-08-2009).]

fierogt4e (fierogt4e@juno.com) MSG #61, 10-06-2004 12:08 AM
      Boristheblade You are reveling a secret I am embarrass to have reveled. But the story includes divorce lawyers, investigators, family courts, financial devastation and nothing that belongs here, But the car was disassembled , spread around my shop and left in peaces so that I would have it when I came out the other side of it all. And I am now looking over the top of that deep hole, a few years later. I have me house, my shop, my GT/4E Fiero and my son and everything things is going back together(I hope).

Russ; Twin sons of different mothers???

Both small holes on the bottom went to the brakes. A hose went from the top, large transition on the passenger side through the battery area to blow on the front of the motor, no fan. The left top fed the engine,

IRM? Yes. No rear spoiler, no wheel houses, made my own front spoiler, and came with little door caps. Sound familiar?

Full door skins werent offered until later when they altered the fender molds so the inner fender lip reached into the stock wheel houses.

Jim? The owner told me mine was not the first kit they soled because I only bought parts, not a kit. Who knows the truth of this? Not me.

The air extractors I did in 87.



Russ544 MSG #62, 10-09-2004 09:57 PM
      CHAPTER 11

Those little girl tires were really starting to bug me, but I'd spent many frustrating hours browsing tire and wheel sites looking for the right combination of backspacing, outside diameter, wheel and tire width, and all in a package that had the look I was after. It sounds easy, but really had me pulling (what's left of) my hair out. Today I just took all my troubles to Les Schwab and was rewarded with what I think is an excellent package for this car. I should have done that a month ago. Of course having all the aforementioned criteria met and having a 5 x 100 bolt pattern would be like a free night with Brittany, so I will be making (steel) wheel adapters for the rear and redrilling the front hubs for a 5 x 4.5" bolt pattern,.. but hey....... She'll just have to learn to live without me .
The hubs are off the car for machine work, and it's on jack stands.. but..... what do you think?


Center tire below is the stock 195-70-14 . YAaa BABY !!. I still may have to bite the bullet and pay the ridiculous price asked for the fake knockoffs however.
Wheels are 17" Raceline GTs . 10" rear 8" front.
XI-326 ZEXIUS tires
Front 225-45-17
Rear 275-40-17



Other than acquiring rolling stock, all I got done today was mounting the wing on 5" stands, build a battery box platform in the front, and sanding sanding and more sanding.
Now that the wheel problem is rolling along, I feel inspired again to move forward.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-08-2009).]

doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #63, 10-09-2004 10:34 PM
      Those rims are an awesome choice!

I know a chop top would be a ton of work, but it would sure look good :P



Russ544 MSG #64, 10-10-2004 11:00 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:

Those rims are an awesome choice!

I know a chop top would be a ton of work, but it would sure look good :P

I do like the looks of a choptop, expecially on the fastback, but............. One of the reasons I love the Fiero is because it's one of the few "sports" cars I actually feel comfortable in at my 6' 2" height ...... Maybe a choptop with a "Gurney bubble" would be cool

Russ



Russ544 MSG #65, 10-15-2004 10:51 PM
      CHAPTER 12

As long as I was converting to the larger bolt pattern for the new wheels anyway, I decided to go ahead and install 12" Vett brake rotors. True to my nature, I've done it a bit different than the norm so I'll share.
The wheels I got are a 5 x 4.75 bolt pattern. the rears are 10" wide with a 6" backspacing. The Fiero rear wheel flange isn't large enough to re drill to the larger size, and I needed to space the wheels out another 3/4" anyway, so wheel adaptors are being made by a friend of mine who has a larger lathe than mine and an indexing fixture. The Vett rotors just needed to be re drilled to the Fiero pattern and concentric rings fabricated, so I did that myself.
The front wheels are 8" wide with only 4 1/2" backspacing but fortunately the wheel flange is large enough on the front to be re-drilled to 5 x 4.75, so we're only talking about pushing the wheel out ~ 3/8" beyond stock. that amount shouldn't have a big detrimental effect on wheel bearing loading. Of course with the hubs re-drilled to 5 x 4.75 no re drilling of the rotors is needed here, so just adding the concentric rings finishes up the front.



Rather than start with a hunk of steel and build concentric rings from scratch I decided to utilize some scrap early rotors I had laying around. By simply cutting out the center of the rotor with a side grinder with cutoff wheel attached



then knocking off the corners with the cuttoff wheel to create a semi-round shape, all that remained was to turn down the outer diameter to the Vett rotor ID of 2.785 wile leaving a small ( .050) flange on the ring to help retain it behind the rotor.



I've already mocked up the caliper brackets in wood, so tomorrow I'll whittle some out of some steel plate.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-08-2009).]

Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #66, 10-15-2004 11:14 PM
      Very cool update/upgrade!

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #67, 10-16-2004 01:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
The front wheels are 8" wide with only 4 1/2" backspacing but fortunately the wheel flange is large enough on the front to be re-drilled to 5 x 4.75, so we're only talking about pushing the wheel out ~ 3/8" beyond stock. that amount shouldn't have a big detrimental effect on wheel bearing loading. Of course with the hubs re-drilled to 5 x 4.75 no re drilling of the rotors is needed here, so just adding the concentric rings finished up the front.

I'd worry less about wheel bearing load and more about steering geometry. As long as the centerline of your new wheels is in the same spot as stock, you won't have any issues, but moving the wheel out may give you a perceptible change in steering kickback.



Russ544 MSG #68, 10-16-2004 10:40 PM
      Whooo-Raaaa...... I've never worked so hard for so long to accomplish so little. Santa really needs to bring me a plasma cutter this year cause cutting out brackets this thick with an oxy torch and then spending hour upon hour in front of a 12" grinding wheel isn't my idea of a fun day......... but it' done now and they look good, so what the hey.
The two caliper mounting bolt holes are tapped 12MM and did seem to torque down well, but I'm still concerned with the number of threads available in the bracket for such a stressed part as the caliper. I have an idea brewing to modify a grade 8 nut by turning down ~1/2 it's thickness in the lathe, then drilling out the bracket to accept the round portion of the nut, and tack weld it in place. Simple, strong, won't require any major changes to the brackets, and good for some peace of mind............... maybe next week .


The 17s swallow even these 12" rotors with an inch to spare


Now if I could just get my buddy to finish the adaptors for the rear...... I'm sure getting anxious to see what it looks like back on all fours again.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-08-2009).]

doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #69, 10-16-2004 11:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
I'm sure getting anxious to see what it looks like back on all fours again.

Me too! Post pics as soon as you can!

Russ544 MSG #70, 10-17-2004 02:04 PM
      "If you're not good... at least be Lucky" will be my moto from now on. When I was mocking up the brake caliper brackets in wood last Friday I really wasn't paying much attention to the rears as I knew the mount spacing was the same and well.......... truth is, I just wasn't thinking. Saturday I made 4 bracket out of steel plate. all exactly the same. Today I went to put on the rear calipers and discovered that the E brake cable bracket hole lines up perfectly to hit the strut .


The thought of starting from scratch on those brackets was a less than pleasant experience to say the least, so after I was done throwing things in my shop, and swearing at the cat, I set the caliper on the rotor, which was mounted on the car by now, and began rotating the caliper to see where it needed to be to clear everything............. 0 ........ When I realised that the caliper needed to be below the old mounting position instead of above it, like the front calipers, I though perhaps I could reverse the bracket and use it to mock up the position of the new holes that would be needed. I was absolutly stunned when I found that everything fits perfectly with the bracket flipped "upside down". no grinding, fitting, drilling, nothing . bolt it on and go. amazing !!

I'll be right back. I need to go buy a lottery ticket now. I'm feelin' lucky

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-08-2009).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #71, 10-19-2004 12:15 AM
      That thicker than 1/4" steel plate right?



Russ544 MSG #72, 10-19-2004 09:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

That thicker than 1/4" steel plate right?

Yup.
Just a chunk of steel I had laying around. I just miked it at .344 (about 11/32"). The difference in offset between the Vett rotor and the stock Fiero is about .380 so it worked out.


88GTFormula (tdbonner2012@gmail.com) MSG #73, 10-28-2004 02:27 PM
      how would the rear clip be widened for a fastback...? Any idea Russ?

Shoot me a PM when ya get a chance, great work on the notchie widebody by the way

Russ544 MSG #74, 10-29-2004 09:12 PM
      Sorry I haven't had time for the IMSA project for a wile now. My dad was in the hospital for a total knee replacement and it hasn't gone well. Things seem to be improving somewhat however, so I feel I can devote more time to the car again.
The wheel adaptors are done now, so I can install the 12" rotors, mount the wheels on the car, and determine how much to drop the suspension. I also built a roll bar and re-fit the rear vents into the new bodywork, so sometime this weekend I should have a progress report and some photos to share.

peace,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-29-2004).]

Russ544 MSG #75, 10-29-2004 10:35 PM
      Here's a little peek to hold you over

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-08-2009).]

exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #76, 10-30-2004 01:14 PM
     

Russ love the 5" wing stands,..ever think of extending the wing tips down a couple inches at an angle like on madcurl's silver chop top ?



Russ544 MSG #77, 10-30-2004 02:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by exoticse:

Russ love the 5" wing stands,..ever think of extending the wing tips down a couple inches at an angle like on madcurl's silver chop top ?

I do love Curls car, but It's not the look I'm after on this project, which will be much more traditional/contemporary. I've never seen another car with extended tips like his.... apparantly he just glassed over some foam forms?? The main reason I like Curls work is that it's unique. gotta resprect a guy that thinks for himself. I wonder if they ever caught the guy that broke his door hinges

Russ

Russ544 MSG #78, 10-30-2004 09:53 PM
      Today I had the dubious honor of scraping the cheep window tint, which was scratched and had turned purple, from the rear window. that litle chore took the better part of an hour. With that job done the mounting of the new roll bar proceded without much effort. I was happy to have recently purchased a right angle drill head however. The carpet and backing was cut to hide the flange which is welded on the base of the tubing and bolted to the rear shelf. That rear shelf is actually two layers thick btw and the layers are about an inch apart so long bolts are required. tack weld the bolts to the rollbar flange to make it easier to tighten the nuts from the engine bay.


The wheel adaptors came out really nice. about 1/4" needed to be removed from the stock wheel studs, and the nuts were releaved of about .100 from the outer face for clearance. With the addition of the 3/4" thick adaptors, that also puts my wheel spacing just about right on the money for offset/backspacing of the 10" rims with 6" backspacing.
The plate to the left of the adaptor is one of the rear brake caliper adaptors btw.


A little side note for the "it's a small world" file: The guy that made the rear wheel adaptors for me was working for the machine shop in the mid 80s that did much of the Huffaker Fiero machine work.
OOOooooooooooo. that's almost spooky .

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-08-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #79, 10-31-2004 07:40 PM
      Between company and chores I didn't get much time for the IMSA today other than installing the 120 guage cluster and pod (thanks Aaron). A rather humourous side note is in order about the Zexius tires I'm using however. I drove the car out of the shop yesterday so I could reorganise it and take a couple of photos of the car. My driveway is gravel, and after just a few feet I slammed on the brakes to see what the heck all that clattering sound under the car was. it sounded hideous whatever it was. well I finally figured it out


The photo is after driving about 50 feet across my driveway.
These things are a gravel magnet . Just driving 5mph across the driveway sounds like being inside a tin can in a hail storm .

Cheerio,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-08-2009).]

Electrathon (arw62@aol.com) MSG #80, 11-01-2004 12:52 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

A little side note for the "it's a small world" file: The guy that made the rear wheel adaptors for me was working for the machine shop in the mid 80s that did much of the Huffaker Fiero machine work.
OOOooooooooooo. that's almost spooky .

The small world thing seems to happen a lot. Remember my first dealing with you was someone back East saw a part I had for sale and told you about it. I sent it to you and days later my dad walks into your shop and notices you have a Fiero and tells you about his son having one. With the size of the country, what's the chance.

Russ544 MSG #81, 11-01-2004 10:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Electrathon:


The small world thing seems to happen a lot. Remember my first dealing with you was someone back East saw a part I had for sale and told you about it. I sent it to you and days later my dad walks into your shop and notices you have a Fiero and tells you about his son having one. With the size of the country, what's the chance.

HA HA. yup that's true isn't it. Sure glad it worked out that way to, as there have been lots of parts since then that came from "the house of Aaron" that made several of my projects happen. It's always a pleasure to do business with you.

"Thanks" my friend,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 11-01-2004).]

Russ544 MSG #82, 11-14-2004 11:09 PM
      UPDATE:

I'm not sure how much interest remains, but I figure I'll update the IMSA progress, see how many hits I get, and go from there.

The past two weekends have been mostly filled with fairly boring (by my standards) and routine tasks. I cut one full coil from the front springs which dropped the front about 1 1/2". I may do another 1/2 coil before I'm done. The rear struts haven't arrived yet, but I plan to start by cutting 1/2 coil from the rear springs when they do.



The less obvious progress included building a switch panel to fill the radio hole (real hotrods don't have radios ) The new panel has 6 toggle switches, just cause that's what looked right, but the functional ones initially include a radiator fan override, a fuel pump interrupter, electric choke control, and ignition. I think I'll mark one switch "ejection seat" just to give passengers something to think about . I plan to have a local graphics shop make an overlay for the lettering, so I'll have a photo of that in a week or two.
Other tasks included installing the 120 speedo setup with gauge pod, and then tracing and rewiring a problem with my engine swap wireing that prevented the tach from operating. Wile I was in a wireing mood I went ahead and installed an electric rear decklid release hijacked from my parts car. I got some GT seat skins from Aaron a week or so ago and spent a few hours installing them on my seats and repairing the hinge covers and recline levers. After starting to reinstall the headliner I decided to put new cloth on it first. it looked ok but I'm glad I decided to recover it as the foam backing was pretty rotten under the old cloth. The backing is cleaned up now, but I ran out of steam at about this point in my weekend.
I should have photos of the compleated interior by next weekend if the creek don't rise.

Cheers,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Electrathon (arw62@aol.com) MSG #83, 11-14-2004 11:53 PM
      Keep posting! This is one of my favorite threads.

STRATOHACKER (stratohacker@aol.com) MSG #84, 11-15-2004 07:17 AM
      Call this hit # 2. Keep posting I have found this to be very informative.
Richey


Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #85, 11-15-2004 08:38 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Electrathon:
Keep posting! This is one of my favorite threads.

I second that!

cooguyfish (fish1042@email.com) MSG #86, 11-15-2004 09:07 AM
      i'll show some interest :-D



bryson MSG #87, 11-15-2004 09:16 AM
      It's on my favorites list -- keep going!
--Bryson


Dough19 MSG #88, 11-15-2004 10:51 AM
      Lookin really good. I will continue watching. Mark

MinnGreenGT (minngreengt@gmail.com) MSG #89, 11-15-2004 05:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

I'm not sure how much interest remains...

I will remain interested until it's completely done! Keep the pics & updates coming

mafv8 (mfullagar@twmi.rr.com) MSG #90, 11-15-2004 06:09 PM
      Keep those updates coming, I am very interested to see the final vehicle.

gascarracer (ernestbauhofer@fuse.net) MSG #91, 11-15-2004 07:59 PM
      Can't wait to see a finished car.



Russ544 MSG #92, 11-16-2004 08:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by gascarracer:

Can't wait to see a finished car.


What does this word.......... "finished" mean??
My definition of "finished" is actually another phrase:.... "for sale".

Thanks guys for the votes showing interest in seeing more of my progress. I started this thread to show the IMSA bodywork being done, but if you'all want to see the rest I'm certainly willing to share. Progress always seems slower as a project nears compleation, so pull up a chair and I'll dust off my camera and go back to work on it beginning next weekend.

Later,
Russ



Kento (kento@triad.rr.com) MSG #93, 11-16-2004 08:50 PM
      That looks sweet. I would love to do one too but with the Shark nose, I just don't like that HOOVER GT/SE nose! well keep us updated. BTW is that a stock 2.8 in there or a swap?



Dave E Bouy (doctorfiero@gmail.com) MSG #94, 11-16-2004 09:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

So without further ado........... First we gota get nekid.

This has been covered numerous times so I won't go into how the old cloths come off, but it's a fairly simple matter and should only take about a half day for a first timer.

but but but I really want to know how the old clothes come off! Any suggested reading cuz I am a first timer

DeB



Dave E Bouy (doctorfiero@gmail.com) MSG #95, 11-16-2004 09:09 PM
      [QUOTE]Originally posted by Russ544:

So without further ado........... First we gota get nekid.

This has been covered numerous times so I won't go into how the old cloths come off, but it's a fairly simple matter and should only take about a half day for a first timer.

but but but I really want to know how the old clothes come off! Any suggested reading cuz I am a first timer

DeB



Russ544 MSG #96, 11-16-2004 09:55 PM
      [QUOTE]Originally posted by Kento:

That looks sweet. I would love to do one too but with the Shark nose, I just don't like that HOOVER GT/SE nose! well keep us updated. BTW is that a stock 2.8 in there or a swap?

No no. no stocker here ~290hp 4.3L
see: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/044164.html

Russ

Russ544 MSG #97, 11-16-2004 10:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dave E Bouy:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Russ544:

So without further ado........... First we gota get nekid.

This has been covered numerous times so I won't go into how the old cloths come off, but it's a fairly simple matter and should only take about a half day for a first timer.

but but but I really want to know how the old clothes come off! Any suggested reading cuz I am a first timer

DeB

pull the snaps and twist the buttons. If you're doing it wrong she'll .......................... OHhhh. you meant................

There really aren't many surprises in removing the "skin" from a Fiero except for the rear clip/roof panels. and the only thing there is to loosen and raise the rear edge of the front 1/2 to alow the rear half to clear some pegs. The headliner has to come out to access the bolts that hold the roof on which adds a bit of a challenge to the process, but other than those items it's pretty much just a matter of removing enough bolts until parts start falling off

Russ

Russ544 MSG #98, 11-21-2004 10:42 PM
      Chapter 17:

Much of this weekend was spent on interior projects. Recovering the headliner, installing the GT wheel, reassembling interior trim, housecleaning, etc.. I've always liked the GT style seats, so I picked up two nice seat backs and one base from Aaron (Electrathon). I had a couple flawed GT bases, but fortune prevailed and I was able to have two of them combined into one nearly perfect one for $50.oo, which then gave me a compleat set. A good Woolite wash job and a couple hours R&R paid off IMO:



As I mentioned last week, I fabricated a switch plate and mounted it in the radio opening. I haven't gotten around to visiting the local graphics shop to get the tags made yet, but masking tape tags work for the moment . switches include: RAD (fan); IGN; FUEL (pump); EJECT (passengers); and FIRE (a Fiero exclusive). #6 is blank at this time.



The more observant among you will notice the shifter has been shortened by 1 1/4" as well. I really like the feel of a short shifter in the Fiero, and it's very easy to modify. I prefer to cut the upper part in the middle in order to retain the angle of the finished product, but several variations can be done on this end to suit your tastes. The bottom of the shift arm can be lengthened about 3/8", before it hits anything, and that shortens the throw between gears quite noticeably.



It was a gorgeous day in Oregon today, so I got the car out for a photo shoot................................



and just couldn't resist going for a "test drive" up the rural road I live on. This cars not currently insured, no plates installed, no lights, no mirrors, expired registration....... I just love living in the country ... I only ventured out a few miles, and didn't push the car too much, but nontheless.... It seems to meet my performance expectations .

After returning to reality, I decided to install some power mirrors on the car. The high wing and rollbar combine to block a large chunk of the rear view (as noted wile checking for red flashing lights during my "test drive"), so accurate outside mirrors may be a plus to me someday.
Have you ever removed a set of PM from a parts car?? what a PITA. I see now why people get so much $ for a used pm setup. it's not the hardware itself, but rather the labor to remove the wire harness. You pull out the entire dash (and all that that entails), part of the heater ducting, the console and it's skeleton...... etc etc. needless to say, the wire harness now takes the "low route" under the dash of it's new home.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #99, 11-24-2004 09:54 PM
      For those who PM requested more info on the dash switch panel.


The plate is made from a sheet of light guage steel. A step is bent into each end to raise the plate about 1/4", which brings it up tight against the back of the installed face plate. The same 4 screw holes are used to secure it that once held the radio.

Cheers,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #100, 11-26-2004 07:32 PM
      I had intended to leave the wheelwells tub-less, however after experiencing the sound of gravel hammering against the inside of the fiberglass bodywork, wile traversing my driveway, I began to reconsider , Then during yesterdays "test drive" I noticed that the section of fender in front of the rear wheel would pick up a bigtime harmonic from the engine at around 3000 RPMs. That is a fairly large chunk of fiberglass hanging out there unsupported, so when it gets vibrating you really notice it. Sooooo. Tubs it is........
At first I had planned to use two spare wheel tubs grafted together to make one wide one but the shapes of each piece prevented that from working out so I braved the mall in search of a suitable material to fabricate extensions. After several false starts with other items I finally settled on a HD plastic garbage can. tough; flexible; reasonably cheep; and even has the approximate curve of the wheel opening. It still took several sets of cardboard templates before I was satisfied with this method, but it all worked out in the end.



By cutting a 4"-5" slice off the outer edge of the front half of the stock rear tub the correct angle is located to add a piece on, and have it meet the wheel opening correctly. After the new piece is trimmed and correctly positioned it gets tacked to the stock wheel tub with an air gun shooting small brads. once secure the tub is removed and the pieces permanently assembled with large staples with the backside hammered over to lock them into position. The rear 1/2 of the tub is much easier, as no cutting of the stock tub is required to make the extension line up with the wheel opening.



Sheetmetal nuts are used at the outer edge to secure the tubs to the wheel opening flange. I didn't feel that extra support was needed for the lower edge of the rear 1/2 but on the lower edge of the front half I pop riveted a 6" section of fiberglass L onto the fenders base and screwed the lower edge of the tub to it. this makes that whole area of the fender quite ridged now.



After shooting the whole thing with SEM black I took at least 15 pics trying to show the extension mounted in place. unfortunatly it all blends together so much that it's very hard to see where the old ends and the new begins.............. but I guess that was the whole idea actually

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #101, 11-26-2004 07:52 PM
      Nice job, very imaginative way to use a trash can! I've been watching this thread for awhile and finally decided to post my kudos to you. Keep up the good work.



Russ544 MSG #102, 11-27-2004 10:03 PM
      Bonus round:
I'm still working on the parts that will provide material for the next "chapter" so I thought I'd throw this in for those brave souls who are sticking around for the finish of this project.

It seems like I'm always needing a fiberglass part for one of my projects, but I seldom drum up the energy to make a plug, pull a mold off of it, sand and buff the mold, wax it 8-10 times, da da da. It's just too much work to go through for most items, and the "one off" method usually doesn't provide a very attractive part without a ton of finish work.
Wile I was enlarging the wheelwells on this project I happened on the method of using thin aluminum sheet to easily create a "mold" of sorts. The really neat part of using aluminum is that it has a nice finish already, and the resin doesn't stick to it so no waxing is required. No waxing, no sanding, no polishing. It's easy to form into a multitude of shapes, and can be hammered to form compound curves if desired. ......... YA.... I like it

Make a cardboard template to work out the bugs
Transfer that to aluminum sheet.
Bend into shape and tape the joints together with duct tape.
lay up the fiberglass part and allow to cure overnight.
Remove the duct tape an pop the part out of the mold.
Repeat as needed.

As you can see, the parts come out almost ready to use, or paint if desired, after trimming off the edges and some minor sanding of the corners. The black marks on this particular part are from the felt tip marker used to mark the cloth for cutting, but you can use gel coat, or paint the part, or not use the felt tip and then just leave the part natural, depending on your intended use.
Enjoy!

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #103, 11-29-2004 06:10 AM
      Looking great, Russ. Hey, you're giving away all the glass tips for free! I use the sheet aluminum deal quite often, and a few other materials as well. Basically, anything that will hold the shape you want, that resin won't stick to works.

Saw an article in Kit Car Mag. a couple years ago about a guy that built an entire body from molds he made out of plywood and sheet ureathane screwed to it. Worked great, and really not that much more finishing work than he would've had doing it with conventional molds, but I really can't speak to repeated use of and consistant quality from that type mold, but it worked great for his purpose, and it was cheaper for a one off.

Your project is getting better everytime you post a new picture. I'm sure I'm not the only one that looks forward to seeing your progress and innovative ideas coming together.

Keep up the good work. Love the garbage can mod! That looks like it works better than even the Pontiac fiberglass inner fenders would have, after all, they would've been too "small".LOL

HAGO!


Russ544 MSG #104, 11-29-2004 09:04 PM
      Hey. great to hear from you Tedd. I had been wondering lately if you were still kicking. Hows that back holding up? probly a little worse now that it has to support that turkey dinner also hu?

 
quote
Originally posted by Sage:

Looking great, Russ. Hey, you're giving away all the glass tips for free! I use the sheet aluminum deal quite often, and a few other materials as well. Basically, anything that will hold the shape you want, that resin won't stick to works.

Free?? heck no..... didn't I mention that everyone is supose to send me 5.oo for the info?
I've played with fiberglass off and on for 25 years and never heard of using aluminum this way, so I guess you guys kept your secret pretty well....... untill now But now that we all know how easy it is,you'll most likely just go right out of business. LOL

 
quote

Your project is getting better everytime you post a new picture. I'm sure I'm not the only one that looks forward to seeing your progress and innovative ideas coming together.

Coming from you Tedd, I take that as a very great compliment. Every day that I work on the fiberglass pieces that you made for this project I'm just blown away at the degree of quality in your layups. Sometimes I almost feel guilty puting the glass parts that I make on the ones you made. You use jel coat to creat a smooth finish, wile I use it just to hide all my air bubbles LOL.

 
quote

Keep up the good work. Love the garbage can mod! That looks like it works better than even the Pontiac fiberglass inner fenders would have, after all, they would've been too "small".LOL

HAGO!

Ya. one mans trash is another mans treasure I guess. ha ha.
I have the next chapter written up, but the server that I use to store my pics had a major meltdown the other day so I'll wait till they get that worked out before I try to post Chapter 19. Just a hint...... I opened up the side vents and set up ductwork for a future cold air intake system. It came out great IMHO. I should have pics again in a day or so.

Cheers,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 11-29-2004).]

Russ544 MSG #105, 11-30-2004 09:42 PM
      Huuumm. the server with my pics on it seems to still be in a coma as far as the older pics go, but new ones seem to be working so I'll give this a try ..........

CHAPTER 19
Before the wheel tubs go in for the last time, it seemed like a good time to compleat the side vent plumbing as that area will be buried behind the tubs. The aluminum molds I showed a couple days ago were intended to form the collector boxes, but I wasn't satisfied with them and ended up making new ones. The new molds are a little taller, fit the shape of the openings better, and will allow for 4" hoses. I intend to eventually fabricate a fiberglass open-top box to contain the entire carb/filter assy and seal against the rear (vented) decklid with a foam seal. the hoses from the side vents will then connect to the box for a supply of cold air. That part of the project hasn't worked it's way up the priority ladder yet however.
The new collector box shape required making a right and a left mold, as the top is slanted to more closely follow the shape of the vent opening, and yes, I did use the margarine containers as molds to make the neck of the collectors . The aluminum tube is dryer vent hose. it's not my ideal material, but it will function for the moment until something else comes along. It dents easily and looks pretty tacky when it gets "crinkled". kind of like a wad of tinfoil that can never be flattened out again.

after a little TLC and paint, plus drilling a 1/2" hole in the lower corner for a water drain, the collectors are done. A piece of honeycomb screen, scavenged from a parts cars upper vent is cut to perform its new duty as side vent screens.

the screens get buried in a bead of kitty hair bondo behind the finished vent opening, and after that dries a bit, the collector itself gets bonded on the inside of the fender with 3M bonding adhesive.

The left vent hose required only a 1/2" slice of sheet metal to be removed from the side of the frame rail. On the right side, I cut a hole in the area that was once under the battery box, as the battery resides up front now anyway.

Cool!

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #106, 12-02-2004 08:12 AM
      The back is about as well as can be expected, none of us are getting any "younger".

There's good days and there's bad days. I try to get allot done on the good ones, but doesn't always work out that way.

The vents look great, as does the rest of your project. Hope your server gets healed soon, cause I don't want to miss any new pictures you're sharing with us!

Glad to hear the body is satisfacory. Gel coat is sometimes decieving. Often it's hard to tell what you've really got until you start sanding on it, then the bubbles start showing up. I always figure it's better to find them at that point, than to watch them show up under your new paint job!

It's very rewarding to watch this come together, even though my part was small and short lived, I always enjoy watching a true craftsman, and you're that, without a doubt!

HAGO!


Russ544 MSG #107, 12-05-2004 12:46 AM
      CHAPTER 20:

Well.... I wasn't planning to make the cold air box yet, but I started playing with ideas and before I knew it I was making an aluminum mold. It looks like a simple item but this took me the better part of a day to design and fabricate. ..........maybe I just thought about it too much .
The obvious temptation is to just use the aluminum tray as the cold air box, but I think fiberglass will be worth the extra effort for it's insulating ability. no sense in having a cold air box if it doesn't keep the air cold.




The raised portion in the middle is to clear the distributor. The vertical flanges front and rear fit up into the decklid when it's closed, and the kicked down portion of each side fits under the ribs in the decklid that the hinges attach to. all sides will close on a foam seal. The areas marked in red will be the approximate locations of the openings where each side vent attaches There will be a vent of some form in the deck lid also, in order to encourage a constant flow of air and to keep from building pressure in the carb.

I got the main layup done today, but several other small pieces still need to be fabricated and bonded to the main tray.



I'll be using a Holly triangular filter and top plate, with the fiberglass tray serving as the filters base. One of the time consuming parts of the mold fabrication was making a wooden buck and then hammering out the aluminum into it to form the neck of the carb opening. it's amazing how much 22 gauge aluminum will stretch. very nice stuff to work with.



to be continued:

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #108, 12-05-2004 10:48 PM
      The tray was cured enough today to pop it out of the mold, so I was able to continue with the final trimming of the edges to mate up with the decklid, and building the hose connections. The left hose fitting was no biggie, but the right side posed quite a challenge to avoid various sensors, thermostat housing, water and fuel lines etc. I had determined where to route it, and how it should be shaped, but had no idea how I was going to make a form to lay up the fiberglass. I considered a multitude of options, but for one reason or another discarded them all in favor of using a piece of the drier hose I had purchased for the connecting flex hoses. the stuf is made of very thin aluminum, pleated accordion style so it can flex. It's thin enough that I was able to form it into the necessary configuration after considerable trial and error. The pleats needed to be covered over with some foil tape I had laying around to help smooth things out in preparation for resin/cloth, and it ended up looking like some kind of prop for a cheap si-fi movie, but it actually worked even better than I expected. After the resin dried I was able to remove the foil form from inside the new part without too much effort.




With only a very small notch in the inner portion of the decklid, it actually closes over the filter now to .
Still needs some finish work and foam seals around the edges, but the hard part is done.
Looks cool to me.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #109, 12-11-2004 10:11 PM
      I've been a little under the weather the past couple days, so not much progress to report. I was able to finish up the cold air system this afternoon however, with the exception of installing the foam seals around the edges. I'll wait until after exterior painting is done to install those. I drilled a 1" hole in the tray above the HEI coil to provide a bit of cool air to it, and painted the underside silver and the top side black.


I wanted the tray to be easily removable to facilitate access to the thermostat housing and other service needs, so a couple of solutions were invented. It's hard to see in the photos, but I had already fabricated a stand to support the left end of the tray, so it wasn't too difficult to add a bracket (circled in red below) on the side of it to hold the left hose in the proper location for a 1" tall fiberglass ring, attached to the bottom of the tray, to insert into the hose. A similar system is used on the pcv air intake tube, which needed to enter the tray under the air cleaner. I welded a bracket on the side of some 1/2" tubing and bolted it to a carb mounting stud . A large washer is welded on the upper portion of the pipe (yellow arrow), where a foam seal will set to seal against the tray when it's installed over it. The tray can now be removed by loosening the hose clamp on the R side hose and removing 4 wingnuts.


Cheers,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

gusshotrod (gushotrod@aol.com) MSG #110, 12-12-2004 12:23 AM
      Russ: just in case the garbage can plastic doesn't work out, there is a store in Eugene that sells 1/8 in. black ABS plastic that is a perfect match to the inner liners. Comes in 4x8 sheets for pretty cheap. Worked well on mine.

Russ544 MSG #111, 12-12-2004 02:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by gusshotrod:

Russ: just in case the garbage can plastic doesn't work out, there is a store in Eugene that sells 1/8 in. black ABS plastic that is a perfect match to the inner liners. Comes in 4x8 sheets for pretty cheap. Worked well on mine.

Thanks for the tip Guss. One of my criteria for the material was that you be able to shoot a staple through it without it breaking the plastic. several things I tried prior to the trash can seemed extreamly tough and flexable, but when I shot a staple in it it would split. Did you try anything similar on the ABS? The material I found seemed to work very well for me, but for future reference what store has the ABS sheets?

Thanks again,
Russ


gusshotrod (gushotrod@aol.com) MSG #112, 12-12-2004 05:14 PM
      Multi-craft Plastics, Inc. 541-485-1727. I used pop rivets with back up washers. Staples would work as well. This is the same material as the inner liners.

Russ544 MSG #113, 12-19-2004 09:17 PM
      CHAPTER 21:
Friday was spent re-installing the wheel tubs, now that the cold air system is finished. After that, I hooked up the E-brake and trimmed off a piece of fiberglass that was rattling against the frame and tidied up a few other details. Yesterday I drove the car to town to meet with the guy who will shoot the paint for me. He's the new painter at a body shop next to my business, and is anxious to trade for some equipment I have, so I'm jumping on the opportunity. He's an excellent painter, so I was really happy when he said I'd done a great job on the bodywork. I consider myself a lot better mechanic that a body man, so that was nice to hear. He did point out a couple areas that still needed some attention however, so I've been spreading bondo and sanding for much of the morning today, plus filling a few little nicks and pinholes on various edges. The gaps on the sides of the rear decklid had been bothering me for quite a wile, and the painter pointed them out also, but said "ya, but there really isn't much you can do on these plastic bodies to correct that". So naturally I had to prove him wrong .
When I look at a show car, one of the first things I look at is the evenness of the gaps around the doors and decklids. when the' re even all the way around you know the builder spent some time on the car to do it right. when the gaps are uneven it just looks tossed together. The gaps on the sides of the rear deck on this car were ok towards the front, but tapered down, and in fact were touching the fenders, on both sides, above the taillights.
The fact that the rear decklid is made up of two pieces bonded together actually helped the process of narrowing, as I first took a pie cut off the edge of the inner layer, being careful not to damage the lip on the edge of the top skin.

After that piece was carefully separated from the top skin and removed, a pie cut was taken from the top skin, beginning near the front edge and ending about an inch in at the rear of the decklid. (sorry I forgot to take a pic of that one). this left a ledge of lower skin to support the top skin after it's pulled over to meet the new edge. I just used kitty hair bondo to reattach it. Very little sanding was needed on the bottom to return it to a virtually original looking edge.

A light skin coat of glazing putty and a bit of sanding was all that was required on the top side, and now the gaps on both sides are as perfect as one could hope for, and that's one more thing that won't bug me after the car is painted LOL.


The painter and I decided to wait until after the holidays to begin final prep and paint, so I may have to actually work on my SBC car next weekend. I've had some interior parts to compleat the gray to brown conversion for several months now, along with some rear 1/4 panel air inlet scoops that I made and painted for it 6-8 months ago. I just have too many toys and too little time LOL.

Happy holidays to all,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #114, 12-28-2004 10:08 PM
      As I mentioned the other day, the painter won't be able to start on the IMSA until after the first of the year, and I kind of needed a break from it anyway, so I decided to take care of a couple items on my "hot rod" (86SE - 377 sbc 4 speed). The interior has been 1/2 gray and 1/2 brown for about a year now, so it was way past due to be redone properly. I hadn't wanted to tear it apart and not be able to drive the car during the summer, but I rarely drive it in the winter anyway so the time was right.
Well..., you know how sometimes a project kind of..... ahhhhh....... gets a little out of control
This was after "disassembly day".



It was one of those: ............as long as I have the console out I may as well put in those new shift cables.............. and I could get rid of those fuzzy carpets in there.......... and I may as well put in the 120 speedo wile the dash is out.......... and fix the heater vent seal and broken control cable.... and the headliner is gettting kind of grungy....... do-da do-da.
Well it took two long days of my vacation, but I think it was worth it. It's really nice to have everything color matching now and to have all the pieces actually bolted down again instead of just setting there waiting for me to finish it.



I gota tell ya..... the IMSA will need to be a pretty cool ride to top my emotional attachment to this car. There aren't too many things that give me goosebumps like twisting the key on 400+hp and blipping the throttle a couple times. The IMSA has it in the looks dept, for sure, but ohhh that sbc thunder is hard to beat. Maybe a warmed over Northstar in the IMSA would push it up a notch in that department?? we'll see.......................................

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

ChopTop (steeljeep@aim.com) MSG #115, 12-29-2004 11:55 AM
      Russ454, Outstanding thread. I appreciate the time youve taken to document and write up your progress . I knew someone had bought the old IRM molds but didnt know parts were beginning to be offered. Ive printed this thread out because Ive thought of putting a IMSA widebody on my choptop coupe for several years now. BTW, is there a web page for these parts and prices available yet? Thanks (and good luck) again for taking the time to document and share your work!

Russ544 MSG #116, 12-29-2004 10:31 PM
      Today I finished up the projects I had planned for the sbc car. the front valve cover had been leaking slightly. It's kind of a pita to pull the front valve cover, so I picked up some trick gaskets this time. This motor has roller rockers so tall valve covers were necessary, and the only way to remove the front cover is to drop the rear of the cradel so the engine rotates down enough to give clearance below the right decklid hinge. fun..... lots of fun.
I also installed the side vents that I made a year ago and had been gathering dust ever since. the one on the right is especially welcome as it feeds a 10" fan that had been installed in the battery box area. The additional air circulation was good for a 15-20 degree reduction in the engine bay, even without the side vents, so this should even improve on that.


Like I said, this was the last project I had planned for the sbc car, so I'll be pulling the IMSA back in the garage tomorrow. The change of pace was welcome..... but now it's time to get back to the regularly scheduled program

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #117, 12-29-2004 10:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ChopTop:

Russ454, Outstanding thread. I appreciate the time youve taken to document and write up your progress . I knew someone had bought the old IRM molds but didnt know parts were beginning to be offered. Ive printed this thread out because Ive thought of putting a IMSA widebody on my choptop coupe for several years now. BTW, is there a web page for these parts and prices available yet? Thanks (and good luck) again for taking the time to document and share your work!

Thanks Choptop. It was my original intent to help others to assemble ths kit, so I'm glad to hear that you've gotten some good out of it.
Yes, Fiero Warehouse purchased the IRM molds a couple years ago. apparantly they had been badly abused, so a lot of work (time) was needed to get them back in usable condition again. My kit was the first one out of those molds in many years. Tedd, from Sage Glassworks, is doing the actual layup of the parts, so the quality (hand layup) is extreamly good. Give Doug at Fiero Warehouse a call and I'm sure he'd be happy to have one built for you also . five grand may seem like a lot of money, but as body kits go I would say you'd be hard pressed to find a better value anywhere. photos don't do the car justice as it honestly does look much better in person. This ain't you're momas Fiero anymore .

Cheers,
Russ


pavo_roddy MSG #118, 12-30-2004 02:10 AM
      Hi all,

Lookin great so far!!! So good you have inspired me to do an Imsa of sorts...hehehe...Custom of course, but not like yours...One ? though, where did you get your kit from??? Webpage would be awesome, thanx..........

Russ544 MSG #119, 12-30-2004 11:34 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by pavo_roddy:

Hi all,

Lookin great so far!!! So good you have inspired me to do an Imsa of sorts...hehehe...Custom of course, but not like yours...One ? though, where did you get your kit from??? Webpage would be awesome, thanx..........

http://www.fierowarehouse.com/
click on "parts" then "fiberglass"

One of these days, perhaps Doug will get around to updating the site with more detailed current info for the widebody kits

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-30-2004).]

Russ544 MSG #120, 12-31-2004 09:21 PM
      IMSA UPDATE:

If you decide you want to do a body kit...... become very familar with the materials on this fender



The various shapes and designs/material of sanding blocks on the fender are just the ones I used on the area shown. I have a shobox full of wooden blocks which have been cut and sanded into specific shapes for working down the really tricky areas.
even so, It seems like every project has one area that just refuses to cooperate, and in the case of this car, it's this corner. I've had this area in primer about a 1/2 dozen times during the past month, thinking it was "good enough", but somehow it just never was. The area where the facia and fender join together were high, but you can only grind away just so much glass before it weakens it, so I'd end up cheating by filling a little extra on either side and blending. Today I drilled a small hole next to the joint to check the remaining thickness and was surprised to find it still ~ 1/4" thick there, so I guess the somewhat heavy layup that Sage uses does have it's benifits . With DA in hand the high area vanished in short order, so maybe this time it will really be good enough.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #121, 01-02-2005 05:36 PM
      I've been searching for last minute things to do before painting (hopefully) begins in earnest next weekend. One project that presented itself had developed because the factory riv-nuts, used to attach the wing stands to the wing, had all come loose. I had installed new ones, but was never really confident that they would stay put... and it did look a little crude under there with those exposed screws and the gaps around the stands base........ so I permanently attached the stands with body panel adhesive (and the screws) and then filled in the remaining gaps with kitty hair bondo. The screw heads were ground down and filled over, along with the rest of the surrounding irregularities.


I had just shot the first prime coat here, so it does still need a bit of minor touchup, but I kind of like the new "clean" look, and it sure is a lot more solid now !!

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #122, 01-09-2005 10:31 PM
      There was a minor setback in the paint process over the weekend.
It's very unusual to snow where I live. sometimes once a year an inch will fall and melt by days end.... It may take longer for this to melt .



Power was out for two days, etc., etc.

I need a hot shower
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

nightonfire (gpantoja@rohan.sdsu.edu) MSG #123, 01-10-2005 05:30 AM
      I have been following the progress and just wanted to say it is coming along beautifully!

Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #124, 01-10-2005 06:50 AM
      Russ:

Looking great, as usual.

Looks like you got our snow! We got some more rain, which we needed like a second mother in law. Been flooded out of the shop since last Wednesday. Did get back out to it yesterday, (Sunday), for a while. Believe it or not, am working on another nothchback wide body kit. Will be taking some of the things you encountered and reported here into account during the lay up. Thanks!

You've done a FANTASTIC job with yours, as I suspected you would from our initial discourse, well done!

You may or may not be happy to know, I will be offering the wing stands again, but the price is going up, so I don't expect many takers. As a footnote and the reason I mention it at all, is I have changed the lay up process so that the top end, where it bolts to the wing, fits pretty much the same way as the factory stands, one of the reasons for the price hike. Never was really satisfied with the previous method, but it worked. Looks like you've found a great way to deal with it, at least providing you don't need to change them anytime soon!LOL

Am looking forward to seeing your finished kit, and also curious about the next "Russ style" project!

Keep up the great work.

HAGO!


Russ544 MSG #125, 01-10-2005 04:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sage:

Russ:

Looking great, as usual.

Looks like you got our snow! We got some more rain, which we needed like a second mother in law. Been flooded out of the shop since last Wednesday. Did get back out to it yesterday, (Sunday), for a while. Believe it or not, am working on another nothchback wide body kit. Will be taking some of the things you encountered and reported here into account during the lay up. Thanks!

You've done a FANTASTIC job with yours, as I suspected you would from our initial discourse, well done!

You may or may not be happy to know, I will be offering the wing stands again, but the price is going up, so I don't expect many takers. As a footnote and the reason I mention it at all, is I have changed the lay up process so that the top end, where it bolts to the wing, fits pretty much the same way as the factory stands, one of the reasons for the price hike. Never was really satisfied with the previous method, but it worked. Looks like you've found a great way to deal with it, at least providing you don't need to change them anytime soon!LOL

Am looking forward to seeing your finished kit, and also curious about the next "Russ style" project!

Keep up the great work.

HAGO!

Seems like you get flooded out a lot out there. you may want to move to higher ground

Great to hear you have another body kit going together ! What part of the country is this WB going to? is it going to a pennocks member? It would be great to see how his goes together. do you know what his intentions for the car are? show, race, driver, etc?

I really didn't have any problem with the way your "old" stands mounted, it was just that my wing wasn't in the best of condition to begin with. Regardless...... I am glad to hear you'll be making them again as I do like the look of the 5" variety a lot.

Cheerio,
Russ


skitime (skitime@ptd.net) MSG #126, 01-10-2005 05:20 PM
      Russ,

Not sure how I have been missing this thread till now but WOW! I love your ingenuity and the care you are paying to the details. Few would have the talent you have to accomplish what you have. You are going to have one spectacular Fiero when you are done. Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing.



Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #127, 01-10-2005 10:20 PM
      Russ:

Yep, the whole town's been flooded twice since Sept.! (Not literally, but the river was 10ft. over flood stage the first time and 9 the second, so there WERE many flooded streets, vehicles and buildings.) My shop has never taken on water, but the only roads to and from it get covered when the roads flood. Kind of "to be expected" when you live in a river town.

Don't know the man's name. Was only told that he has a Fiero with a V8 putting out nearly 900hp! I believe he is in Indiana, and I don't think he posts here, but again, I really don't know.

That's what I was told.

I usually don't get directly involved with customers, yours was a special situation, so most of the time, don't know who is getting what. All I NEED to know, is what to make, and that's generally enough.

HAGO!



Russ544 MSG #128, 01-11-2005 12:08 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by skitime:

Russ,

Not sure how I have been missing this thread till now but WOW! I love your ingenuity and the care you are paying to the details. Few would have the talent you have to accomplish what you have. You are going to have one spectacular Fiero when you are done. Keep up the great work and thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the high marks Ski. Brings up a point as well: Wile I may agree that I'll have a nice car when I'm done, I really don't think I'm any more "talented" than a majority of the folks here. I may be a bit more stuborn to admit that I don't know what I'm doing some of the time , but then that's how one learns. I've long been of the opinion that just about anyone can do much more than they think they can if only they would make the attempt.... stick their neck out and try . Fieros are a great tool to learn on in fact. heck.... if one gets screwed up you can always just toss it in the dumpster and go buy a couple more . If nothing else, I'll be happy if someone on the list sees my build and decides to tackle a project that they previously were afraid to try.

Cheerio,
Russ


NotAFieroAnyLonger (stelebla@aol.com) MSG #129, 01-11-2005 12:18 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

IMSA UPDATE:Russ.......


OMG... That looks freakin sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!



Blazerguy (stilettoinsand@yahoo.com) MSG #130, 01-14-2005 02:11 PM
      posty

Can't let this get buried on page 4 and higher. I have been watching this with an unusually high interest. The discontinuation of the widebody kit was the single thing that halted my plans to get another Fiero. Now...........

bonzo (llaaragon@cs.com) MSG #131, 01-16-2005 07:47 AM
      Russ,

How's that 4.3L running for you. Did you ever change the exhaust? My 4.3L will be back from the shop for cleaning and honing this week. Then the rebuild starts. Standby to flooded with install questions.



Russ544 MSG #132, 01-16-2005 01:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bonzo:

Russ,

How's that 4.3L running for you. Did you ever change the exhaust? My 4.3L will be back from the shop for cleaning and honing this week. Then the rebuild starts. Standby to flooded with install questions.

Hey that's grreat Bonzo. glad to hear it's coming together.
Because of the bodywork and winter I've only driven the car with 4.3 ~20-30 miles total, so I can't give you a great deal of feedback. I have had a heck of a time getting the air out of the cooling system on this car for some reason however. my sbc, and even the stockers, were never a problem for me, so I don't know what's up with this one. I may eventually either flip the water pump "rightside up" again (there is plenty of room and really no need to have it reversed, except for hose routing, in retrospect). or I could leave it reversed and plumb in a small water line to replace the steam hole function. I don't know that that's an issue here, but it may be worth a try. The reason I know it isn't "burped" is that the temp guage swings wildly as the air and water alternatly hit the sender. I don't think it's actually ever overheated, but it could I supose.
I haven't changed the muffler yet either, but that is high on my list of things to do after body/paint. it just doesn't sound "right" with that Flowmaster.
My computer has been giving me fits for a week or so, and it may be down most of next week to have it "wiped" and reloaded, but keep trying and I'll get back to you on anything I can help with.

PS: My painter postponed again this weekend, so now we're looking at next weekend for the IMSA at the soonest.

Cheers,
Russ


Russ544 MSG #133, 01-30-2005 11:24 AM
      Mostly a bump so I don't get Archived, but to update the project:

The IMSA finally went in the paint booth for the first time yesterday. This round is just for primer/surfacer, but it's a start. The masking is pretty extensive on this car becaue it's being painted assembled, except for the front and rear decklids, so that took several hours even for a guy that does it every day (and I don't think he likes masking Fieros anymore ). He wasn't sure if he would have time to shoot it yesterday or if he's wait till today, but I'll be checking on it later this afternoon and try to grab a pic or two. We'll be block sanding by mid-week, and perhaps be able to shoot color next weekend. (It'll be white with dark gray Gfx, to match the rims).
I also got the vinyl overlay for the in-dash switchplate done and installed last week, so I'll try and get a pic of that when I go ck on the painter later today. it came out nice, and I was shocked when the gal told me the price. only $10.00 .

I shall return,
Russ


ricreatr MSG #134, 01-31-2005 04:54 PM
      MAN! this is sweet!
thanks russ.


Russ544 MSG #135, 01-31-2005 08:37 PM
      It mush be nice to only be 25 years old . the painter had the primer shot and was pulling some masking off when I arrived this morning at 7:00 am .



We're using a tintable primer (K-93), so he shot the first coat dark gray, and two coats on top of that in white. then when we get to the block sanding, any irregularities will show up right away.

later,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

NotAFieroAnyLonger (stelebla@aol.com) MSG #136, 01-31-2005 08:51 PM
      I wish I was ready for paint...
Looking top notch!



ShaddowGt (sage14823@xpectmore.com) MSG #137, 01-31-2005 10:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by NotAFieroAnyLonger:

I wish I was ready for paint...
Looking top notch!

i wish you were too!
btw, when are those sideskirts gonna be ready?

Russ, great thread, keep it going. how much longer ya think?

madcurl (madcurl@fiero-performance.com) MSG #138, 02-09-2005 06:00 PM
      any thing new to report? I love this thread!



Russ544 MSG #139, 02-09-2005 08:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:

any thing new to report? I love this thread!

Not much. The guy that's doing my paint work, after hours, works for a body shop next to my business so I see him just about every day. the car is in a spare stall at the body shop also, so whenever he gets a slow time at work he can work on mine. As noted last week he shot the primer, and has been doing the block sanding, in 10 minute installments, in preparation for the top coat. Actuall he told me just today that he has no cars to work on tomorrow so he thinks he'll be able to finish blocking mine out and be ready to shoot color by this weekend.

This is precisly why I've learned to do the vast majority of body and mechanical work on my own. I'm not a patient person when it comes to my toys, and this wait is driving me nuts.
I did, however, buy an LT-1 (92) Vette last week, so that's given me some diversion

I hope to have some new pics of the IMSA by late in the weekend, so stay tuned.

Russ

bonzo (llaaragon@cs.com) MSG #140, 02-12-2005 11:32 PM
      Man this needs a bump. Russ are taking a trip to Daytona for the show. Cmon it's just a hop, skip and a jump from Oregan.


Bonzo


Russ544 MSG #141, 02-13-2005 11:15 AM
      I spent yesterday afternoon helping the painter prep the car. he was just finishing with the final wet sanding of the primer/surfacer when I arrived at noon or so, so we knocked down the jams and chashed down the last of the edge pinholes and dings. As you can see, he took the doors off before I arrived also. We had discussed this a few weeks ago, but I told him I wasn't gona take those bloody doors off again for anything, and he needed to just deal with painting the tight areas created by them any way he could................ which he did .
This final masking job needs to be as near perfect as possible, so when I finally left for home around 7:30 we had deemed it so. Ryan (the painter) was planning to stay and shoot the sealer, and then the black trim and GFx portion, so it has time to kick before he shoots the white tomorrow. I doubt that we'll get the front and rear decklid, doors, and other misc small parts all painted and reassembled tomorrow, but I'll post a pic of what we do get done by days end regardless.
It's finally coming together and looking real good. I'm excited !!



BTW:
I know not many of you live near me here on the left coast, but for anyone who does, or is willing to drive a bit for some truely high quality paint and/or body work by someone who takes the time to do it to the best of his ability, I highly recomend this guy. contact me and I'll get you in touch with him.

pics of painted car due later today!!

later,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #142, 02-13-2005 11:22 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bonzo:

Man this needs a bump. Russ are taking a trip to Daytona for the show. Cmon it's just a hop, skip and a jump from Oregan.


Bonzo

Oh absolutly. I'll leave here just as soon as you send me the plane ticket and travel expenses

any progress on that 4.3L project of yours Bonzo?

bonzo (llaaragon@cs.com) MSG #143, 02-13-2005 04:17 PM
      I got a custom grind cam from CranCams and installed it about a week ago. I talked to a guy at Crane and he helped me out a bunch. I told him what I was putting this motor in and he seemed to get pretty excited about the project. He said that the 4.3l is a torquey truck motor but with some cam work and the carb setup I'm doing I should be able to run some high RPMs and get about 220 to 240 HP. The motor rebuild has come to a halt until after Daytona. I'm entering it in the custom daily driver class. I'm paint preping some of Archie's IRPs right now. All my time is on cosmetics right now.



Russ544 MSG #144, 02-13-2005 08:16 PM
      It's good that I have other toys to play with, or I'd be a total wreak by now with these paint delays. Ryan stayed very late last night and shot the sealer and then the lower GFx and trim. The paint we're using has a very heavy silver metallic, and one small area behind the drivers door went nuts on him. The only cure was to wait until today and scuff and re-shoot that area, which he did today, but now it will be tomorrow before we can tape it to shoot the white. The good part is that he has no "real" work to do tomorrow so even though it's Monday he should be able to work on mine (it's nice that he has an understanding boss). As you can see we've decided to shoot the mid-line trim, as well as the mirrors, the same charcoal/smoke color. I don't recall the name of this color but it is AWESOME.
So OK.... tomorrow I'll have a pic of it fully painted....... no no REALLY I will .

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #145, 02-14-2005 08:22 PM
      damn pictures aren't showing up! I need to see how this turns out, its awesome

JamesCurtis (jamie.curtis@outlook.com) MSG #146, 02-14-2005 08:41 PM
     
 
quote
no no REALLY I will

Oh really?

hehe, just messin with ya, keep up the good work!



Russ544 MSG #147, 02-14-2005 10:50 PM
      The lack of new pics is not due to a lack of trying . The server I use to host pics (Picturetrail) is temporarily unaccesable wile they do some "upgrades". I took a pic of the car as it looked right after we rolled it out of the paint booth, but the message on the server says it won't be back on line until late tonight PST (Mon).
We pulled the car out of the paint booth today with the main body finished. it really looks awesome. The white we used is a late Corvette color and it looks great against the charcoal trim. Work has begun on scuffing the doors and decklids, with plans to shoot them tomorrow.
We may try a little experiment on the color scheme by shooting the wing and the inset portion of the front decklid vents in the Charcoal color just to see how it looks. we have plenty of white to shoot over it if it doesn't look right, but it might actually look pretty sharp..... we'll see.

use your imagination

Russ



Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #148, 02-14-2005 11:22 PM
      What a tease! (J/K )

Can hardly stand the suspense, but I already know how it's going to look.....fantastic!

Are all the motor heads in Oregon as skilled as you and Guss? You guys together could reeeeeaaally build a "SUPERCAR"!

Oh, BTW, the pics seem to be working now................

HAGO!


Russ544 MSG #149, 02-14-2005 11:52 PM
      LOL.

existing pics from Picturetrail are working fine, but I can't add any new ones until they finish whatever their doing to the server.

patience grass-hopper.

helmet1978 (helmet@raceme.cc) MSG #150, 02-15-2005 09:31 AM
      You can email them to me and I'll host them for you



Russ544 MSG #151, 02-15-2005 10:22 AM
      Hey hey...... why is everyone looking at me like that?...... and what are you doing with that rope in your hand?
all right all right... If my server isn't up by the time I get home from work tonight I'll see if someone else will host a couple pics here for me.

what a rowdy crowd
Russ


Electrathon (arw62@aol.com) MSG #152, 02-15-2005 10:51 AM
      Russ,

If the server is not back up email them to me and I will post them with PIP for you.

Aaron

Russ544 MSG #153, 02-15-2005 08:53 PM
      The doors, front decklid, wing and mirrors got the charcoal portions sealed and painted today. We expect to shoot the white on them tomorrow and begin reassembly. yippie !!
In order to suppress a riot ,here are a couple pics of the way it looked when I left today.





I'll try and get more pics tomorrow if all goes well in the reassembly.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #154, 02-15-2005 09:23 PM
      That's one MEAN - GORGEOUS looking Fiero!

But....you already know that. Just wanted to be one of the first to say congratulations on a fine, fine job.

Personally, I never had any doubt. Russ is a man of his word and anxiously welcomes new challenges.

He certainly met this one head on and it's fairly obvious who came out on top!

Thanks for the thread Russ, looking forward to seeing the completed car. Did I say that is awesome?

That is awesome!

HAGO!


bonzo (llaaragon@cs.com) MSG #155, 02-16-2005 05:40 AM
      Nice. What size tires are those on the rear?

Bonzo

MinnGreenGT (minngreengt@gmail.com) MSG #156, 02-16-2005 10:03 AM
      Yummy! Thanks for the pics to tide us over... definitely looking forward to seeing the finished product - I love the charcoal with the dark wheels!

Russ544 MSG #157, 02-16-2005 10:27 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bonzo:

Nice. What size tires are those on the rear?

Bonzo

Thanks. it should look even better with doors and stuff. LOL
BTW: the rear has been lowered by 1/2 coil already, but will be going down another 1/2 in the future. the front is down 1 coil and will most likely stay put.

275-40-17 rears and 225-45-17 front

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 02-16-2005).]

boristheblade MSG #158, 02-16-2005 03:49 PM
      Not a big fan of white Fieros, but I have got to say, that is one mean looking machine. Very nice, and can't wait to see it done!

Russ544 MSG #159, 02-16-2005 10:23 PM
      Well ok.... now we're getting somewhere. We got the doors and decklids painted and back on today, but kinda forgot to paint the eyelids and the trim for the doors, so those will have to be done later. The dark wing and hood vent were kindof an experiment..... but I do like it, so it will stay this way.... for now anyway.
I have lots of little detail stuff to do now, so I'll wait until it's fully assembled to post more pics after these.




I think the Fonze would approve

Russ



Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #160, 02-16-2005 11:30 PM
      AAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! Woa.

 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544

I think the Fonze would approve

I'd guess a big correctamundo on that.

Lookin good.

HAGO!


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #161, 02-17-2005 08:03 AM
      Looks great Russ. Excellent job.

Bob

mrfixit58 (rlumsden@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #162, 02-17-2005 08:48 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


I think the Fonze would approve

Russ

"FOOSE"

I agree. It looks sharp.

Congratulations,



Russ544 MSG #163, 02-19-2005 08:22 PM
      Well.... everything that I have for the IMSA is now reassembled. Only things left are to get the eyelids and fuel filler door painted and installed, and when the windows get back from the tint shop they go in along with the inner door panels. At some point after it gets the "cut and buff" I may have some minor pin striping done, and of course no car of mine is ever truely "finished", but it's getting pretty darn close to "compleat"

It was a nice day today so I took a few pics and thought I'd share:

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

sqoach (fiero_adam@yahoo.com) MSG #164, 02-19-2005 09:03 PM
      Very nice! I like the color combo. The dark trim and wing look good like that. Have you thought about painting the roof the darker color, also?



Kohburn MSG #165, 02-19-2005 09:55 PM
      wow that looks sweet - need more pics!!!

exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #166, 02-19-2005 11:53 PM
     

Love it Russ great job,..about the only thing i might have changed was the color of the wing stands to the darker shade.

The eyelids are going to be white ?

Russ544 MSG #167, 02-20-2005 12:11 AM
      No I haven't concidered a dark top
Eyelids will be white
I did think about painting the wing stands charcoal, but decided that it might make the wing look "stuck on" instead of being a part of the car.
Actually I thought about putting a dual stripe the length of the car, over the roof etc, but the dark vents and wing fit better with my desire for an "understated" clean look.

Russ

Custom2M4 (custom2m4@hotmail.com) MSG #168, 02-20-2005 06:42 PM
      you could change the wing and roof color, and then when you run your stripes, mask it off for the color changed parts... Then spray down the opposite color on your stripes.. for example.. stripes are black/charcoal on the hood ( Personally I would do a marble effect) then when it hits the dark vents, make it on the dark, then dark again on the white.. etc.. so your stripes would change color all the way down the car.. I think this would like intense, you would need an experienced painter to do the marblizing though.. Are you up to the challenge?

Nice work thus far btw. I really like how it is coming.



Russ544 MSG #169, 03-01-2005 11:34 PM
      One last save from the archives so the thread will still be around when it's time to add the final set of photos before sliping into the abiss. My painter has been pretty busy lately and unable to finish off the couple small parts that I need to compleat the car. he said today that perhaps tomorrow he'll be able to shoot them for me if things go well.
I'm expecting to have a nice set of photos of the compleated car posted here by the weekend.

Russ

JamesCurtis (jamie.curtis@outlook.com) MSG #170, 03-02-2005 12:54 AM
      I don't know if i've said it before, but awesome job russ, your car is just plain beautiful Keep up the good work!



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #171, 03-02-2005 08:50 AM
      Got any bigger pics?

Russ544 MSG #172, 03-02-2005 10:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Got any bigger pics?

I generally take pics in 640x480 just cause it's quicker, and even then I've been reducing them to 320x240 so they'll show on the forum, but if there are pics in the final "showing" that anyone wants enlarged I can E-mail them dirrectly to you (I'm 56K however, so be kind). It's forcast to be a nice weekend coming up, so perhaps I'll get the car compleated and have some really nice outside pics to share with you soon.

Russ

MinnGreenGT (minngreengt@gmail.com) MSG #173, 03-02-2005 11:59 AM
      Whenever you get the "final" pics - I'd love to get a couple of larger resolution ones... the car looks great!

Roylmohr MSG #174, 03-02-2005 03:21 PM
      That car is beatiful I love the wide rear tires they look awesome good work. I would love to have a kit for my 86 GT!

Kohburn MSG #175, 03-02-2005 03:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

No I haven't concidered a dark top
Eyelids will be white
I did think about painting the wing stands charcoal, but decided that it might make the wing look "stuck on" instead of being a part of the car.
Actually I thought about putting a dual stripe the length of the car, over the roof etc, but the dark vents and wing fit better with my desire for an "understated" clean look.

Russ

ever considered doing recessed headlights with black buckets?


Russ544 MSG #176, 03-02-2005 08:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Kohburn:


ever considered doing recessed headlights with black buckets?

Ya... actually I have, but I'm waiting to see what Aaron comes up with on his "kit"............ If he'd just quit trying to burn his shop down and get back to work on them . any news on that Aaron?

Russ


Russ544 MSG #177, 03-06-2005 08:36 PM
      OK.... here ya go. I guess I'd better stay with turning wrenches and not start a new career in photography LOL . I took 30 or 40 photos today and these are the best I could weed out of those. I did a little minor ps and crop on some of these, so if you want the original 640x480 let me know & I'll send the ones you want your way. A lady friend of mine has a really good eye for digital photography, so perhaps one of these days I'll get her to shoot a few for me also.

The white body color tends to reduce the visual effect of the body flare in photos, so I really tried to get an angle that shows the "bowtie" shape best. The second shot below does pretty well at showing that, but non of these really do justice to the full amount of flare. for a better idea of just how much wider it is now, go back to page one or two where I had the narrow stock wheels/tires on the car LOL.

I still need to get the car aligned, but I've driven it quite a bit in the past week or so, and done a lot of fine tuning on the carb jetting and timing. It will never beat my sbc car in a drag race, but I'll tell ya what ........ it's a surprisingly quick little ride, and a ton more well manered than the sbc (425HP tends to be a bit volatile on the street).
With special thanks to Tedd and to Aaron, It's been a really enjoyable project !!
Yaaa..... I guess I'll keep it ...................... for a wile anyway .







[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #178, 03-06-2005 09:12 PM
      and a couple more:



[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #179, 03-07-2005 01:35 AM
      Looks incredible. The white on black contrast is an eyecatcher. It just seems that the wing may look a little narrow compared to the widened rear end. I think you need a massive IMSA wrap around spoiler

Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #180, 03-07-2005 07:33 AM
      OUTSTANDING! You did a fantastic job, and it sure shows. I for one would like a couple of the pics emailed (you know where to send them )in full resolution. That thing looks like a genuine "fat cat" out on the prowl, you are a true craftsman! Congratualtions on finishing (at least for now!) a project that most would be afraid to start. Thanks for the thread and the opportunity to share in your patience and passion.

HAGO!


gascarracer (ernestbauhofer@fuse.net) MSG #181, 03-07-2005 07:53 PM
     
Thanks for all of your time and effort in posting this thread. I have enjoyed follow your build. I have always liked the IMSA flaired fenders. The "finished product" looks fantasic.



DRA (fierorulz@yahoo.com) MSG #182, 03-08-2005 12:01 AM
      Great thread!



nightonfire (gpantoja@rohan.sdsu.edu) MSG #183, 03-09-2005 05:54 PM
      Hey can anyabody do a photo shop chop-top; I think It would look real cool to wee what the possibility is!!!!!

bonzo (llaaragon@cs.com) MSG #184, 03-09-2005 08:19 PM
      Russ,

That is absolutly incredible. How's that 4.3 running?

Bonzo

Russ544 MSG #185, 03-09-2005 08:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bonzo:

Russ,

That is absolutly incredible. How's that 4.3 running?

Bonzo

Excellent ! I'm very happy with the 4.3 as a Fiero swap in general. it really does fit like it was made for it, and performs excellent in this weight car. I may install another type engine at some point in the future in the IMSA, just because it deserves something a little more exotic, but if I do, the 4.3 will go into another Fiero. I'll take it over to the drags this summer just to see what it will do, but I expect it will surprise a few people for "just a v-6".

Russ

Oh BTW: I'm installing a different muffler tomorrow also, so I'll let you know how that works out as well.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 03-26-2005).]

BobadooFunk (bobadoofunk@gmail.com) MSG #186, 03-09-2005 10:17 PM
      wow, i really like it!



Russ544 MSG #187, 03-10-2005 08:59 PM
      Well I got the different muffler installed today. I love it . This is just about my ideal as far as a good balance between letting the world know something other than stock resides here.... but remaining easy on the ears from both inside and outside the cockpit. Power does not appear to have been adversly affected either. Sometimes the obvious is just too hard to see...LOL..... I installed a new Fiero OEM v-6 style muffler from the Fiero store and tossed the Flowmaster in the dumpster.
The 4.3 is starting to show signs of getting broken in now. smoother running, idle has risen slightly, temp is more stable etc.. I'm likeing this motor more and more all the time.... maybe I won't swap it out after all .
I'm set up for a full alignment tomorrow, so I'll "test" the suspension and braking sometime in the PM.


FIEROPHREK MSG #188, 03-10-2005 11:21 PM
      Well russ i've been lurking this thread off and on and now i must stand and applaude you . That is one sweet imsa.

[This message has been edited by FIEROPHREK (edited 03-10-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #189, 03-12-2005 04:18 PM
      Thanks for the kind words guys!

I took the IMSA in for a full line up yesterday. the rear went without a hitch but somehow I had overlooked a bad lower ball joint on the front right so that's on my weekend "to do" list before the lineup can be completed.
The other part of my "to do" list was dedicated to fixing an oil leak at the remote oil filter adaptor. When I put this motor together, none of the places I looked could come up with the correct 18 x 1.5MM adaptor so I ended up modifying (the one on the right in the photo below) a side outlet unit to go on the 4.3 . The problem with using this unit was that the 4.3 filter pad is recessed into the block slightly, so I had to grind off some material from both the adaptor and block to be able to screw the adaptor on. by the time that much material was removed, not enough threads remain at the hose connections to effect a reliable seal. It wasn't as severely cut up as it is now however, as when I originally installed it the oil pan wasn't on the engine, and I sure didn't want to remove the pan now, wile in the car, so I just hacked pieces off the adaptor until it would go full circle to come off. In the meantime I found a guy at an auto parts store that had a brain, and he came up with a correct adaptor for me. as pictured on the left below it's a Mr. Gasket # 7678. I ended up using different fittings from those shown, as I'm using the Toyota starter with my setup and clearance is really at a premium. It really tore my guts out to do it, but I had to use the Archie method of tapping off the side of the block for one oil line and using a 90* fitting on the adaptor in the other side. It's back together now and not leaking, so now it's time to start on the balljoints. .......oh yippie........

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #190, 03-18-2005 08:49 PM
      UPDATE:

Well I decided to just yank out the engine and do the job right. I had several small items that I wanted to alter on the engine anyway, and it's just easier, and makes for a better end product, to pull it out where you can get at things.
It's amazing how grungy the engine can get in only a few months. of course much of this was due to wetsanding on the bodywork.


3 of the items I wanted to change were all kind of "plumbing" related. the first was the oil filter, which now mounts at an angle so less oil will end up in my face and on the cradle when changing filters. I also had shorter hoses made up so they could be routed further away from the exaust. The second item on my list was to remove the tin heat schields from the headers that surround the plugs. changing plugs was a real pain because you couldn't access them from under the car very well. The third item was to flip the water pump "right side up" again. I opened up the steam holes again and came up with some new hoses to re-route the inlet side around the balancer.
tomorrow I'll clean things up, take a few pics, and stuff everything back in the car again.

It sure is cool being able to pull a Fieros engine so easily. 2 hours and it's all sitting on the floor ! If this was my Vette it would take one full weekend just to pull the engine, one more to work on it, and a third to put it back in again. and I doubt that I'd be in a very sociable mood after any one of those weekends

more pics tomorrow

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Electrathon (arw62@aol.com) MSG #191, 03-18-2005 08:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


Ya... actually I have, but I'm waiting to see what Aaron comes up with on his "kit"............ If he'd just quit trying to burn his shop down and get back to work on them . any news on that Aaron?

Russ

LOL funny.

The shop is about done. The headlights are top priority. Very soon. I think the last cuttings are right, jsut have not had the time to do an assembly.



Electrathon (arw62@aol.com) MSG #192, 03-18-2005 08:59 PM
      Russ,

Whose corn flakes did you pee in? You have one of the coolest build threads on here and red showing in your bar. You must have snuck into OT or something.

Aaron

Jefrysuko MSG #193, 03-18-2005 10:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Electrathon:

Russ,

Whose corn flakes did you pee in? You have one of the coolest build threads on here and red showing in your bar. You must have snuck into OT or something.

Aaron

He probably only has one or two negatives it just shows up more since he has such few overall. I'm in the same boat I got one or two when I spoke up about GTDude burning his 5th or 6th car and his two piece valve covers. Must have gotten another couple from the red bar brigade because when they left I lost a few ratings and most of my red also.

Russ speaks his mind so he will always have some red. Considering the amount of constructive criticism that he has to give I hope he doesnt worry about a few negatives.



Russ544 MSG #194, 03-19-2005 10:09 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Electrathon:


LOL funny.

The shop is about done. The headlights are top priority. Very soon. I think the last cuttings are right, jsut have not had the time to do an assembly.

Cool. Your shop needed cleaning anyway . I'll look forward to your thread on the lights showing up again before too long.
As to the ratings, I don't pay much attention to those things, but wile I try to restrain myself from peeing in anyones corn flakes, I seldom add any sugar for them either. Hey.... so I'm old, cranky, opinionated, and blunt. at least I'm good looking

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 03-19-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #195, 03-19-2005 08:32 PM
      Although the motor is back in the car now and has the four cradle bolts installed, I found a couple more things today that needed attention before the motor went back in, and that held me up enough that the rest of the installation will have to wait till tomorrow. I figured now was a good time to install the rear sway bar that I got from PaulV a few months ago, and that required some sandblasting and paint work before it went in. Then after flipping the water pump right side up again, the timing mark, which had been just barely visible before, was totally hidden by the pump inlet. I was able to sneak a new pointer in behind the belt, and hopefully there will be a "hole" where it will be visible when in the car. A big patch of white now covers the area from TDC to 10* , so as long as I can get a glimpse of that area I should be able to set the timing when necessary.


The filter adaptor and it's hoses look a lot tidier now, and the hoses are far enough away from the exhaust that I won't worry so much about it becoming another Fiero fire statistic. It should be a lot more pleasant to change the filter now as well, without having a 1/2 quart of hot oil running up my shirt sleeve and all over the cradle from the horizontally mounted filter. (note drip quide under the filter gasket area also).

As I calculated, the radiator hose has a clear path, once the necessary hose bends were figured out, to snake around the balancer, and various suspension, on it's way to it's source for cool water.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Will-Martin MSG #196, 03-20-2005 02:27 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

Wow, nice car man. Really good job on the paint / wheel selection. Looks tight.




Russ544 MSG #197, 03-20-2005 08:10 PM
      Back in... running great.... and looking good . It's always nice to get things put back together again. even though it's been raining all weekend and I wouldn't take the car out in this kind of weather anyway, it's nice to know that I could now, if I wanted to LOL.
I was tireing of all the stick jokes when I would prop up my rear decklid to show people what's under the hood, so I modified a spare front decklid support to perform the task.


I'm afraid I didn't take any "in progress" photos of the modifications, but it was actually pretty simple, and developed in pretty much the same manner as most of my creations. I'll use my usual analogy of building a canoe from a tree trunk: "once you find a suitable tree, lay it on it's side and clamp securely. then cut everything off the tree that doesn't look like a canoe".

I still need to build some screens for the hood vents.... guess I'll do that next weekend.... then I need to...uhhhh ................................................ uh oh. I don't know what to do to it next... does that mean it's..... "finished"? It can't be, cause I don't have that word in my vocabulary.

I'll think of something.
Russ



Russ544 MSG #198, 04-03-2005 04:52 PM
      O-boy.... did I ever bite off a big one this time .
Even though I am extreamly happy with the performance of the 4.3 in this car, somehow the heritage and style of the new body work just beg for something equally exotic, and I've always been facinated with the high tech 4 cammers in the race world so........, when my connection at the wreaking yard called to tell me he "found one of those engines you asked about" I just about choked. This is WAY above the carb and points technology that I've been working with for 40 years, but it's the right motor for the car, and it's way past time for me to get beyond the 20th century anyway .
What we found is a 97' VIN 9 (295hp) Northstar 4.6L with 24,ooo miles. It's currently on it's way to me from Texas.
I'll be keeping the 4.3 for the remainder of the summer so I can enjoy the car and participate in a few shows and cruise nights, but by next fall/winter I expect to have everything ready as a drop-in package on a spare cradle/trans.

Wish me luck..... I'm gona need it

Russ


FieroMonkey (piccolo@cox.net) MSG #199, 04-03-2005 05:19 PM
      welcome to the wide-body family.

you really did a fantastic job!



Russ544 MSG #200, 04-03-2005 06:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMonkey:

welcome to the wide-body family.

Thanks ! yours looks nice as well. What's the history on yours? did you build it and if so how long ago? what kind of powertrain?
The "true" widebodys do seem to be a pretty scarce package. I'm sure there are more out there, but yours would only make 3 street IMSAs, besides mine, that I've seen.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 04-03-2005).]

FieroMonkey (piccolo@cox.net) MSG #201, 04-04-2005 12:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


Thanks ! yours looks nice as well. What's the history on yours? did you build it and if so how long ago? what kind of powertrain?
The "true" widebodys do seem to be a pretty scarce package. I'm sure there are more out there, but yours would only make 3 street IMSAs, besides mine, that I've seen.

Russ


Thanks for the compliment Russ.

Mine was built this way and sold new at a Pontiac dealership in CO in 84 as a "Banshee Turbo Fiero" (still have to paint it before i can re-apply the decals. only 3 were built, and as far as i know, mine (#1 of the 3) is the only one left. It came with a Turbo charged 3.0 4cyl with Superduty head, intake, crank, rods, and custom cam/pistons, etc. I have not dyno'ed it yet, but i am guessing the hp is around the 290+ mark based on g-tech data (ill have to dyno it to be sure). Came standard with rear swaybar, bigger front sway bar and 3 piece Gotti wheels. Indy scoop was also standard. The odo is just over 6k miles, so the interier is pristine. paint needs to be redone on the body though. Gotta love the wide bodys! they really make the Fiero look like a heavy caliber.




doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #202, 04-04-2005 01:38 PM
      Damnnnnnn, these wide bodies look so mean. Get that thing all painted up FieroMonkey!

Russ544 MSG #203, 04-04-2005 08:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMonkey:

Mine was built this way and sold new at a Pontiac dealership in CO in 84 as a "Banshee Turbo Fiero" (still have to paint it before i can re-apply the decals. only 3 were built, and as far as i know, mine (#1 of the 3) is the only one left.

Wow. that's a trip. hopefully you have some documentation with the car, as it could make that a pretty valuable car in the not so distant future. I'd love to see yours in person sometime. I'm facinated to see that the wheel openings are larger than the "normal" IRM street bodies. I wonder if they cut them out and built up a new lip similar to the way I did mine, or just how the whole thing developed.
We'll have to have a WB cruise some time

Russ
PS Where is Poway? near Sac? I don't get down that way very often, but you never know.



FieroMonkey (piccolo@cox.net) MSG #204, 04-04-2005 09:00 PM
      I have some documentation on the car from when it was new, but not nearly the pages i would like. Like the window sticker. Mr.Fiero on the forum almost bought the car back in the early 90's from the original owner. says he still has the news paper article advertising it, but he hasn't gotten me a copy yet, would be neat to have.

The previous owner told me that Pontiac used a full race IMSA body and integrated it like you did into the top and inner portion of the notchback clip. As far as i can see, there has never been any alteration to the fiberglass of the wheel openings. it may be that the race bodies where different at the wheel openings, im not sure (i should probably look into it more) The only bummer thing is there are no wheel liners. i had the same idea you did for the wheel well liners, but never did anything with it. seeing your extremely great job inspires me to start on a set. luckly the car has low miles and did not suffer any ill effects from no wheel liners.

Sadly Poway is in southern CA in San Diego county, might have to meet at some big Fiero shin-dig somewhere in the middle sometime

P.S. you should really take some more pics of your car. ide love some big screen backround sized ones

Russ544 MSG #205, 04-04-2005 09:14 PM
      Yes the race bodies did have the larger wheel openings, but that must have been quite a challenge to adapt the tube frame body to the stock Fiero chassis.......... you know... it seems like Tedd (Sage) told me that the street bodies came a year or two later than the race bodies, so, now that I think of it, they most likely hadn't even developed the "street" IMSA body when yours was built.
The inner liners are a big improvement on a glass body car, but I'd still hate to see them installed on such a rare example as yours. better to keep it as built IMHO.

Most years (not this one due to heavy rains) a couple of us go to So Cal between X-mas and new years on a flying trip (hang gliders). We go to Torrey Pines, Lake Elsinore, Crestline, Silmar, etc. wile it's freezing cold here in Oregon. Maybe next year I'll drop by if your around then .

Cheerio,
Russ

PS: I will get some larger pics up before too long. winter has returned here for the second time this year, but when it leaves again I'll get some more photos.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 04-04-2005).]

gusshotrod (gushotrod@aol.com) MSG #206, 04-04-2005 09:22 PM
      One more. Last of the FOCCA bodies. So how many are out there?


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #207, 04-04-2005 10:53 PM
      FOCOA bodies? Did they make their own widebody setup or is that a modded IRM type..
The lips around the wheel house openings look different... and it's been smoothed


gusshotrod (gushotrod@aol.com) MSG #208, 04-04-2005 11:58 PM
      I did the smoothing and fender openings. Could be IRM. The top of the original rear fender opening was below the molding. If it is, it's probably the last one. Quality was really poor. Phil oiginally sent me a mix of GT and notch-back parts. Sent the GT parts back and he was supposed to send me the correct parts, which is when he disappeared. I ended up with a front spoiler for a regular width nose that didn't fit, two right side rocker panels, and no door pieces.

FieroMonkey (piccolo@cox.net) MSG #209, 04-05-2005 06:16 PM
      Russ544,

I dug up this pic of the SD4 Fiero. It's suppsosed to be the same body used on my car. i think the wheel openings are exactly the same, but i could be wrong

i flipped mine around and shrunk it for comparison, i know the angle is a little lower in the SD4 pic, but its close.



bryson MSG #210, 04-05-2005 07:21 PM
      I can dig it! I love widebody fieros....

Russ544 MSG #211, 04-05-2005 09:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMonkey:

I dug up this pic of the SD4 Fiero. It's suppsosed to be the same body used on my car. i think the wheel openings are exactly the same, but i could be wrong

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's correct. the entire body should be the same with the exception of the modifications made to adapt it to the Fiero space frame.

Russ

FieroMonkey (piccolo@cox.net) MSG #212, 04-05-2005 10:35 PM
      Just read this thread again. has to be one of the coolest build threads on the forum!

one question for you on the wheel liners. the can you used for the extra material seemed to work well and look good. what brand was it? and where did you find it?

Russ544 MSG #213, 04-05-2005 11:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMonkey:

Just read this thread again. has to be one of the coolest build threads on the forum!

one question for you on the wheel liners. the can you used for the extra material seemed to work well and look good. what brand was it? and where did you find it?

There's lots of very cool build threads here, but glad you enjoyed mine. thanks.
It might be a wile before I really get rolling on it, but don't forget to check in again when the Northstar chapter begins. now that's gona be cool

The can I used for the wheel liners were Rubbermaid Roughneck 33 gal from Fred Meyers. They have a lifetime warranty against cracking or denting, but I'm not sure if that covers roadkill or not . The only drawback is that they're a dark brown color, so you'll need to shoot some Sem black on the finished product if you decide to go this way.

Russ

FieroMonkey (piccolo@cox.net) MSG #214, 04-06-2005 11:02 AM
      Cool. thanks Russ. I will definately be keeping and eye on this one for your motor swap

Russ544 MSG #215, 04-30-2005 01:18 PM
      brief update:

The "low mileage peach" VIN 9 Northstar turned out to be an 88,000+ mile, 6 owner, 1 repo,... VIN 9 Northstar. It went back to Texas from wince it came. another engine is in route from the East coast that is claimed to be in the 22,000 mile range and does in fact show as a one owner car on Carfax. We'll see.
Wile I had the motor from Texas, I was able to get the shift linkage and clutch slave bracket pretty much fabbed together.

I think it should work out just fine. The Texas motor went back to my local yard yesterday, so I'll have to wait for the new motor to arrive before I can do the front engine mounts however. When things get rolling again I'll be back on board with some progress reports.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #216, 04-30-2005 09:40 PM
      It's amazing how much cleaner a project becomes when you're waiting for parts to arrive .
I got the spare trans cleaned up today, and set the shift linkage and slave cyl up on it along with cables and a shifter assy from a parts car. I'm very happy with the shift feel when using this setup. I was afraid the extra linkage would make the shifter feel like a wet noodle, but I honetly can't tell the difference with or without the belcrank mechanism installed. cool .
Here is a better shot of the way the throwout fork arm was "clocked" around in order to gain clearance from the Northstars water manifold.


It's a simple matter to remove 3 or 4 splines from the throwout fork arm and grind a bit out of the relief where the pinch bolt goes through in order to turn it on the shaft to the needed orientation.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

bryson MSG #217, 04-30-2005 10:12 PM
      I really like that setup you have for the shift cables -- looks awesome! Did you use a bearing or what for what the crank rotates around?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #218, 05-01-2005 12:04 AM
      that looks like it will work fine Russ. since you have to take the slave off anyway to bleed it that should take any guess work out of getting the air out. now where is that N*???



Russ544 MSG #219, 05-01-2005 12:05 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bryson:

I really like that setup you have for the shift cables -- looks awesome! Did you use a bearing or what for what the crank rotates around?


No actual bearing. just a hub welded to the bellcrank and pivoting on a grade 8 3/8" bolt. I set it up so only the shank of the bolt bears on the bellcrank hub, and not the threaded portion. I'll be adding zerk fittings to each hub also.


Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #220, 05-07-2005 11:08 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

now where is that N*???



I picked it up on Friday. This one looks much better than the first one they got me. This one (a 98' VIN 9 Deville) arrived in a well made crate and has been drained of all fluids and had the cylinders oiled for storage. everything checks out well mechanically but it does have some corrosion from the salted roads in it's former home in Ohio. Not too bad, but it will take some spit and polish.
I got the alt bracket, belt tensioner and idler pretty well set up today so now I can see what room is left to fab the front motor mounts. I expect to start on the mounts tomorrow.


Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #221, 05-08-2005 08:44 AM
      Don't need A/C in Oregon?

Russ544 MSG #222, 05-08-2005 12:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Don't need A/C in Oregon?

Naaaaa. real hotrodders don't need A/C .

Russ

Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #223, 05-08-2005 12:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


Naaaaa. real hotrodders don't need A/C .

Russ

Only "cool" ones do



Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #224, 05-08-2005 12:48 PM
     

I'm in love



Russ544 MSG #225, 05-15-2005 09:11 PM
      For the mounts on this Northstar swap I wanted something soft to complement the smooth Caddy style. Even though this project will definetly be higher up the "show" side of the scale than my others, I still concider this a "driver" first and a show car second, so comfort is important to me. With that in mind, and because I had a few spares laying around I decided to utilise Fiero trans mounts all the way around. There will be at least one dogbone installed also, to stabilize things.
The Fiero trans mounts actually fit into my plan quite well, just requireing a shelf to be fabricated for one in the rear right corner:

and a fairly simple plate and a couple of gussets, attached to the new crossmember, for the other side of the engine.


Engine mounting plates carved from some 3/16" steel and 2" square tubing was used to span the gap between the engine and the new mounts, being carefull to allow clearance for incedentals like Axles, exhaust manifolds, alternators, etc..

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #226, 05-15-2005 10:11 PM
      here's a pic of the bracket I made for the idler. this mounts in the location of the old power stearing bracket, as shown earlier, and allows the use of the stock N* spring loaded idler arm with a groved pulley installed on it.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #227, 05-15-2005 11:41 PM
      good lookin ideas there Russ!


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #228, 05-16-2005 05:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
For the mounts on this Northstar swap I wanted something soft to complement the smooth Caddy style. Even though this project will definetly be higher up the "show" side of the scale than my others, I still concider this a "driver" first and a show car second, so comfort is important to me. With that in mind, and because I had a few spares laying around I decided to utilise Fiero trans mounts all the way around. There will be at least one dogbone installed also, to stabilize things.

Umm... You're not going to use stock rubber or stock replacement rubber mounts are you?
I can tell you that those will get destroyed quickly. I'd recommend Rodney or WCF's poly trans mount replacements.
Gonna need Rodney's rear trans mount bracket as well.... My Northstar broke my stock one into three pieces.


Russ544 MSG #229, 05-16-2005 11:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Umm... You're not going to use stock rubber or stock replacement rubber mounts are you?
I can tell you that those will get destroyed quickly. I'd recommend Rodney or WCF's poly trans mount replacements.
Gonna need Rodney's rear trans mount bracket as well.... My Northstar broke my stock one into three pieces.

Yup. I'm using 4 stock replacement Fiero trans mounts. I understand your skepticism, but I feel that with the engine mounts spread as far apart as they are, the loads on each one will be minimal for the type of driving this car will see. at least one dogbone mount (more likely two mounts) will also be in use. When the stock trans mounts are used on the trans only, along with the single centrally located front mount, they're subject to conciderably more stress than in my arrangement, and in the three mount configuration are much more subject to failure when power is added to the mix.
Does Rodney make trans brackets for the Isuzu? I thought he just did the Getrag parts.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 05-16-2005).]

tesmith66 MSG #230, 05-17-2005 06:26 AM
      You have a PM.

Russ544 MSG #231, 05-21-2005 10:51 PM
      Progress has been slow on this portion of the project as I've been working 10 - 12 hour days for a wile now, and will continue for another month or more. work sucks ;(
No fabrication this weekend as I'm dedicating my days off this week to clean up and paint projects. The N* I got only has 22000 miles on it, but had a heavy layer of corosion all over it from the salted roads in Iowa from wince it came. I tried every trick in the book to get the aluminum spiffed up again, including sandblasting the entire engine. I still didn't like what I saw, so I went shopping for a paint to refinish it with. Generally I hate aluminum paint as it tends to look like a mexican chrome job (aka rattle can chrome) but I found a product that actually looks pretty good IMO. it's a Duplicolor product made to refinish wheels, so it's resistant to acids, oils, moderate heat etc. and seems quite tough to boot.

As nasty as the outside was I was very happy to see that the inside is vertually spotless. everything looks like new in there.
Tomorrow I'll work on refinishing the bits and pieces and putting it all back together again.

Cheers,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #232, 05-23-2005 02:02 AM
      i'd never know that engine was corroded...


Master Tuner Akimoto MSG #233, 05-23-2005 07:38 AM
      If you are using silver (rattle can) paint in the future and want it to look good just get some clear and apply it right after spraying on the silver it mellows it out and the end result looks great .

Russ544 MSG #234, 05-23-2005 08:57 AM
     

ain't that puuuuurdy

I've been a die-hard sbc builder for many years but I may have been converted. the Northstar is a very impressive design.

Master Tuner,
Good tip, but the Duplicolor wheel refinishing stuff has the clear in the same can .

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-09-2009).]

vortecfiero (vortecfiero@hotmail.com) MSG #235, 05-23-2005 11:31 AM
      geeeeeeeez that project is looking great..
Im sorry to see that you gave up on the 4.3...
Im still pushing this combo for obvious reasons
I have had several rides in N* cars and other
than not quite having the off the line pull, the
northstar is an awsum set up



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #236, 05-23-2005 08:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
ain't that puuuuurdy

I've been a die-hard sbc builder for many years but I may have been converted. the Northstar is a very impressive design.

Master Tuner,
Good tip, but the Duplicolor wheel refinishing stuff has the clear in the same can .

Yeah, the Northstar has some really nice stuff inside. How far down did you take it?
My 100K mile crank was +/- 0.0002 from spec on main and rod journals.
It requires only four dabs of RTV, whereas a Chevy requires about half a tube to get the intake manifold to seal.


Russ544 MSG #237, 05-23-2005 09:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by vortecfiero:

geeeeeeeez that project is looking great..
Im sorry to see that you gave up on the 4.3...
Im still pushing this combo for obvious reasons
I have had several rides in N* cars and other
than not quite having the off the line pull, the
northstar is an awsum set up

I wish I could convey in a better way that in no way did I "give up" on the 4.3L . I still love the performance, overall drivability and ease of installation in the Fiero with this motor. It's really only my ego that has me setting up a Northstar for this car as I really don't expect a huge increase in performance between the stock Northstar and the current modified 4.3L . The reasons I'm swaping has very little to do with performance and everything to do with exhaust note and "wow" factor when the decklid is popped. Perhaps I should show my old sig more often

Russ

"doesn't matter where you've been....... doesn't matter where you're going...... just how cool you look gettin' there."
Fonzy

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 05-23-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #238, 05-23-2005 10:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Yeah, the Northstar has some really nice stuff inside. How far down did you take it?
My 100K mile crank was +/- 0.0002 from spec on main and rod journals.
It requires only four dabs of RTV, whereas a Chevy requires about half a tube to get the intake manifold to seal.

Will,
Huuumm. I answered you once but the post vanished.... o-well

I only stripped the engine down to the long block to do the blasting on it and the exterior bits and pieces but I'm totally impressed with the use of o-rings and silicone seal rings on every part. very nice.
Where did you dab silicone on the intake manifold? With a dry setup like this I saw no need and just installed everything as supplied.

I'm trying to decide on a couple things that I could use some input on:
Steel flywheel from CHRF or aluminum Spec unit? ( I'll likely use a 2 or 3+ Spec disc.)
Air cleaner and housing? how about the cad unit from a Deville or?

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 05-23-2005).]

pavo_roddy MSG #239, 05-24-2005 12:24 AM
      Hi all,

Is there any chance you know the dimensions of the front end??? Bout how much wider is the new fascia and flare??

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #240, 05-24-2005 02:48 AM
      Things may have changed but if you use chrfab's steel flywheel i am pretty sure you will have to have it turned down because it is made for a rwd tranny. the spec flywheel is made for the fiero style fwd trannys. the price was about the same or slightly less for the spec flywheel early last year... that could also be different now.

Electrathon (arw62@aol.com) MSG #241, 05-24-2005 03:05 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

"doesn't matter where you've been....... doesn't matter where you're going...... just how cool you look gettin' there."
Fonzy

Russ,

That was one of my favorite parts I remember from Happy Days. He was re-adjusting his mirrors so he looked cool, but would not be able to see what was behind him.

Aaron

Russ544 MSG #242, 05-24-2005 09:08 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Things may have changed but if you use chrfab's steel flywheel i am pretty sure you will have to have it turned down because it is made for a rwd tranny. the spec flywheel is made for the fiero style fwd trannys. the price was about the same or slightly less for the spec flywheel early last year... that could also be different now.

Seems like I recall someone going through the hoops with the CHR flywheel and result was that they would now machine theirs to fit the Fiero application. I don't recall who that was however.
I asume the Spec unit is aluminu, faced? If so I would be concerned with durability with the agressive Spec 3 type disk. how about the ring gear on the Spec.... steel or aluminum?

Thanks,
Russ


Russ544 MSG #243, 05-24-2005 09:11 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Electrathon:


Russ,

That was one of my favorite parts I remember from Happy Days. He was re-adjusting his mirrors so he looked cool, but would not be able to see what was behind him.

Aaron

correct-a-mundo

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #244, 05-24-2005 12:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


Seems like I recall someone going through the hoops with the CHR flywheel and result was that they would now machine theirs to fit the Fiero application. I don't recall who that was however.
I asume the Spec unit is aluminu, faced? If so I would be concerned with durability with the agressive Spec 3 type disk. how about the ring gear on the Spec.... steel or aluminum?

Thanks,
Russ

aluminum with a bolted on steel friction surface and steel ring gear. it really looks like a quality unit. here is a pic:

Try this link for all the info. credit to Will and GSXRBOBBY
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/037130.html

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-24-2005).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #245, 05-24-2005 08:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
Where did you dab silicone on the intake manifold? With a dry setup like this I saw no need and just installed everything as supplied.

I'm trying to decide on a couple things that I could use some input on:
Steel flywheel from CHRF or aluminum Spec unit? ( I'll likely use a 2 or 3+ Spec disc.)
Air cleaner and housing? how about the cad unit from a Deville or?

Not that it takes RTV on the manifold... it takes 4 dabs on the whole engine. Two under the front cover gasket where that gasker meets the case half seals and two under the rear main seal, also where that seal meets the case half seals.

What cptsnoopy said... The CHRF flywheel is the proper thickness for RWD application. It would have to be faced, just like a Camaro flywheel with 3800 swap. Wanna go Tilton or QM? A widebody Northstar Fiero needs a dual disk 7.25" clutch...

I think a good filter/intake tube setup would be a fabbed tube going through the fender where the stock Fiero unti came through with a universal K&N behind the Q-panel.

pavo_roddy MSG #246, 05-24-2005 10:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by pavo_roddy:

Hi all,

Is there any chance you know the dimensions of the front end??? Bout how much wider is the new fascia and flare??

Hi all,

just a friendly bump...............


Russ544 MSG #247, 05-24-2005 10:58 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by pavo_roddy:

Hi all,

Is there any chance you know the dimensions of the front end??? Bout how much wider is the new fascia and flare??

Sorry pavo_roddy, I had meant to reply earlier but when we went to the new page I forgot.

As measured at the center of the wheel openings the front of the widebody is 2 1/2" wider (1 1/4" per side) and the rear is 4 1/2" wider (2 1/4" per side). The front of the wb facia is pretty close to stock width but quickly flares out to meet the wider fenders.

Russ

Russ544 MSG #248, 05-24-2005 11:06 PM
      Thanks for the pic cptsnoopy. how much does that thing weigh, and what's the price on it from Spec?
I need to find time to call CHR and verify that they can supply their steel unit already setup for the Fiero. I know the CHR standard unit weighs 11 lb and costs $440.oo . (ouch).

Will, I've already set up the cool air intake system for the 4.3, so of course I'll want to use the same ductwork to provide cool air to the N* as well. A K&N really wouldn't work out well for that so I'll need some type of box to hold a flat filter. that would be a pretty big project to make a fiberglass box that would open up easily to change filters so I'm hoping to find something that can donate a basic system.
On the right side I plan to set up an oil cooler to utilize the current ductwork from that side of the car

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 05-24-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #249, 05-25-2005 01:54 AM
      here is some cut and pastes from the spec flywheel thread.


pavo_roddy MSG #250, 05-25-2005 03:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


Sorry pavo_roddy, I had meant to reply earlier but when we went to the new page I forgot.


Russ

Hi all,

No apoligies neccesary!!! Its all good dude..............

edit: GOD!! That is it?? It appears to be wider....I was thinking at the least to be 2 inches to 2 and 1/2.....

[This message has been edited by pavo_roddy (edited 05-25-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #251, 05-26-2005 08:56 PM
      Well I ordered a flywheel today from CHRF. I could have gone with the Spec aluminum also, but I've delt with Spec before and after talking with Allan from CHRF there was really no choice to be made. given a choice, I'll always go with a supplier who knows his product and is willing to share his knowledge. CHRF certainly came through on that count for me.
CHRF can now supply a steel flywheel (11lb) which is machined for the Fiero application at the current cost of $375.oo .
I've used the Spec clutch before with good results, so I will use one on this project as well but CHRF can supply a Mccloud 9 11/16" unit that they use in their own sand rails with near 400 HP if prefered.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #252, 05-27-2005 01:32 AM
      Thanks Russ. that is good to know information. at least there are more options now...


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #253, 05-27-2005 08:40 AM
      In hindsight, that's probably what we should have done instead of going to SPEC.
SPEC is WAY disorganized and our contact was a confused mofo who didn't give a dern.


Russ544 MSG #254, 05-27-2005 02:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

In hindsight, that's probably what we should have done instead of going to SPEC.
SPEC is WAY disorganized and our contact was a confused mofo who didn't give a dern.

I don't think it was just your contact. it seems to be a universal problem with them. They do make a good product, but without support from the sales people it's almost not worth the effort.

Russ

EDIT: I've bought my last Spec product unless they get their act together in a major way. I just got off the phone with a "tech" who had to ask someone else if there was a new stage 3 clutch now. then they must have had a conference to decide how much it was and which one I would need..... oh ya... "I guess we're out of stock on that one right now so it will be 4 weeks before we can ship those out."
I called Allen at CHRF back and added one of his clutch packages to my flywheel order. it took about 2 minutes.

vent mode off,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 05-27-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #255, 05-28-2005 11:43 PM
      Although I'll be using the stock Deville exhaust manifold on the front I didn't like the rear one so I whipped this one up today. It's nothing fancy, but the exit position will be much easier to work with, and more efficient for the full dual exhaust I have planned. I still need to pick up a collector and the mufflers, but this is a start. I'll be tossing out the original pipe that goes under the engine and replacing it with 2 1/2" tubing in more or less the fashion layed out in the pics.


I used up the last of my 100lb bag of sand today blasting the spare suspension components, and also got them all painted up again, but haven't reassembled that part yet.
I'll be watching Danica Patrick win Indy tomorrow but maybe Monday I'll get some more work done


FieroMonkey (piccolo@cox.net) MSG #256, 05-29-2005 03:58 PM
      what i can't get over here is the quality. everything you have done so far has been top notch. i have seen a lot of neat projects on the forum that have been somewhat cobbled together. still cool, but your attention to the details has put this car of yours on a calibur few have achieved. keep it up man, you have one fantastic Fiero in the making!!


edit; hope that did not come off as cheeze. i meant it though

[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 05-29-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #257, 05-29-2005 04:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMonkey:

what i can't get over here is the quality. everything you have done so far has been top notch. i have seen a lot of neat projects on the forum that have been somewhat cobbled together. still cool, but your attention to the details has put this car of yours on a calibur few have achieved. keep it up man, you have one fantastic Fiero in the making!!


edit; hope that did not come off as cheeze. i meant it though

Thanks FieroMonkey. it does mean a lot to me when people acknowledge my efforts. I try to make each car I build better than the last. the perfect one eludes me but that's what keeps me building new ones I guess.
I don't recall who said it, but a quote I heard many years ago sums it up. "the worst thing that can happen to a person is to achieve their goals".

Now I'm sounding cheezy. it must be the finish of that Indy 500 10 minutes ago. I was cheering loudly for Danica to win that thing there towards the end. boy howdie what a job she did though. I thought she had it after that last pass after the restart with 12 to go. I guess she'll have to came back and get em' next year

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 05-29-2005).]

Machine (kingsbishop1@aol.com) MSG #258, 05-29-2005 07:14 PM
      this thing looks nasty (as in good )... i think of the work i have to put into my car to make it just run then look at what some of you guys do with theese cars its... its aww inspiring

Russ544 MSG #259, 05-29-2005 10:15 PM
      Well... it's finally happened.... I've gone off the deep end. I became obsessed with finishing the headers today but didn't have a reducer or even any suitable material to make one from................. I did have a bunch of smaller exhaust tubing however so the pattern was made, the pieces cut out from two pieces of 2 1/4" pipe which were then welded together to make one large piece. Then it was hammered on, over an improvised mandrel, for several hours until it looked like a reducer. Not bad for a $10.00 part

With the rear header work behind me I cut the end off the old cross-under pipe and welded it on some 2 1/4" pipe to reroute that half of the system back to the hoop in the cradle, ready for future muffler attachment. Although not shown here, the EGR tube previously attached to the Cads cross-under pipe, but now that that piece has hit the dumpster the EGR will be moved to the rear header near the new collector. I've removed the "spud" from the old pipe and will weld it into the collector. the original egr flex pipe will fit with only minor bending.

The stock front manifold will serve duty in it's new Fiero home and provide a spot for the O2 sensor (only one is needed with the Holly computer that I plan to use).



Russ544 MSG #260, 05-29-2005 11:09 PM
      Machine,
There's a secret to this stuff. I absolutly hate working on my daily driver (2000 blazer), but when it comes to my "toys" I find it relaxing and enjoyable (and therefore productive) to work on them.

as long as I'm here, here is a pic of the EGR hookup I mentioned:

Russ

Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #261, 05-30-2005 06:31 AM
      Looking good....no great! You could've been a surgeon with skills and patience like you have.

You're an inspiration to builders everywhere, and especially us "old farts".

You'll make a doggone hotrod outa that thing yet!

As always, nice, nice work. Keep on keepin on.

HAGO!



NotAFieroAnyLonger (stelebla@aol.com) MSG #262, 05-30-2005 08:47 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sage:

Looking good....no great! You could've been a surgeon with skills and patience like you have.

I agree... I would turn over my oldest daughter to Russ if she needed surgery... She would be in great hands!!

Those headers are awe-sum!



THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #263, 05-30-2005 03:31 PM
      Russ544, does your front exhoust manifold have a heat shield protection? Or what we see in the picture is the actual casting?

BTW what year is it?

Thanks!
JG


Russ544 MSG #264, 05-30-2005 05:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by THE BEAST:

Russ544, does your front exhoust manifold have a heat shield protection? Or what we see in the picture is the actual casting?

BTW what year is it?

Thanks!
JG

That's a 98 piece but the 97 I had previously also had the identical part. It's actually an interesting bit of construction as it's made from the two main stamped pieces of stainless, and several smaller bits, which are then welded together to form the part. The only cast part of it is the lower flange where the pipe bolts on. I'm not sure, but it appears that the whole part may also be double thickness. I cut the flange off the other side to make the header so I may have to disect that one just for curiosity. I'll let you know what I find.

Russ

Russ544 MSG #265, 05-31-2005 12:24 AM
      I'll admit I was a bit lazy today, but I'm still amazed that it took all day just to modify the E-brake system. With the crossmember moved forward and the motor in place there's a very narrow path remaining in which to run the cables without hitting anything. in their original position a large hole in the oil filter would be required for the cable to pass through.

Much of my time today involved planning, measuring and re-measuring, but it all payed off in the end. The path required for the left cable ends up square in the middle of the front wall of the remaining piece of Fiero crossmember, so the wall was cut out and extended forward an inch, then a new cable retainer was welded in. The right side was pretty simple in comparison, just requireing a new cable support bracket to be welded and braced into the proper location.
The trial fit looks good, so the cradel can come back out now to be made pretty again.




Russ544 MSG #266, 05-31-2005 09:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sage:

Looking good....no great! You could've been a surgeon with skills and patience like you have.

You're an inspiration to builders everywhere, and especially us "old farts".

You'll make a doggone hotrod outa that thing yet!

As always, nice, nice work. Keep on keepin on.

HAGO!

Here here. lets hear it for all us "old farts"

It's already a hotrod Tedd, it's just becoming a hotter-rod

Did you ever get that second WB kit sent off to it's new owner? Assuming it's been delivered, have you heard how he's coming along with it?

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 05-31-2005).]

Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #267, 06-01-2005 07:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ 544:
It's already a hotrod Tedd, it's just becoming a hotter-rod

I knew that, just teasing you a bit!

 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
Did you ever get that second WB kit sent off to it's new owner? Assuming it's been delivered, have you heard how he's coming along with it?

Yep, finished it late Jan. or early Feb., don't recall which exactly. The man put a $500 dp on it and when finished, I delivered it to Doug. Doug has not heard from him since. Seems to have dissapeared! Doug tried calling him, emailing him and I believe writing him, all with no response. So we don't really know what the situation is, only that he hasn't been back in contact with Doug. I guess Doug's been taking it to shows and such as a display model. That's all I know, so that's all I can tell ya!

Can't wait to see your finished project, it's gonna be the bomb!

HAGO!



Russ544 MSG #268, 06-04-2005 07:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


That's a 98 piece but the 97 I had previously also had the identical part. It's actually an interesting bit of construction as it's made from the two main stamped pieces of stainless, and several smaller bits, which are then welded together to form the part. The only cast part of it is the lower flange where the pipe bolts on. I'm not sure, but it appears that the whole part may also be double thickness. I cut the flange off the other side to make the header so I may have to disect that one just for curiosity. I'll let you know what I find.

Russ

After a 60 hour work week I decided to go on cruise mode today. between naps I removed some parts I'll need for the swap from a parts car like 4 cyl fuel lines, brake vac hose assy, throttle cable, the main engine wire harness and a few brackets.
Beast had peaked my curiosity about the exhaust manifold construction so I used a reciprocating saw to hack off one runner. as I suspected it is double wall construction right up to where the flange was welded on. cool

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 06-04-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #269, 06-05-2005 08:29 PM
      I worked at my business from 6 -10 again today so it was another cruise day on the N* project. I did get the cradel cleaned up and repainted after the E-brake welding, and bolted the engine down to it for (perhaps) the last time. I also did a little work on the dipstick, as it looked like it would be pretty hard to reach where it was originally. I first straightened out the tube and then bent it to go up between #6 and 8 exhaust port. that gained me a couple inches and should be a bit easier to reach now.
About three more weeks of long hours at work for me and I should be able to devote more time to this. By that time the clutch, flywheel and Holley computer system should be here, so then things should really start to roll

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 06-05-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #270, 06-12-2005 05:18 PM
      I can see a light at the end of the tunnel at work now, so I took a day off today and puttered on the car a bit.
I cheated the engine over to the left a tad too much when I built my sbc car and had a small problem with the cv joint bottoming out under acceleration. it wouldn't take long to destroy an axle if this were allowed to continue, so I figured out a way to shorten the left axle by about 5/8" without having custom axles made up. Now that I'm building this Northstar project, that lesson \has come in handy, as the 88 chassis is even tighter than the earlier models and the Northstar needs every bit of "cheating" you can get away with to place the engine further to the left and out of reach of the right hand shock tower. A 1/2" or so can easily be taken up by the cv joint, but more than that requires some alterations to the LH axle.
What I did was to disassemble the left axle and cut (grind) new snap ring grooves as far in on each end of the splines as possible. this ends up being just over 1/4" on each end. with the new grooves cut, the ends of the axle can be shortened by a like amount which gives the tripot about 5/8" more clearance before it bottoms out in it's housing.
I did some measuring today and it appears that I'll be able to get away without any cutting of the shock tower at all. I may have to remove a small piece of the side of the tower cap, just to give a little wiggle room for the cyl head, but that's about it.

stock axle compared to modified.

I received an invoice from CHRF on Friday for the flywheel, clutch, computer and wiring harness, so I expect to see brown on monday or tues with a box of toys in tow. hang on tight... here we go

Russ

Russ544 MSG #271, 06-13-2005 09:07 PM
      A few good toys showed up as expected today

CHRF supplied the clutch, pressure plate and custom flywheel. they all look great. the disk is a dual friction style with Kevlar pucks on one side and full organic on the other.

The Holly Commander and the wireing harness also came in. guess I'll be doing some reading for a few days .

Stay tuned,
Russ



Russ544 MSG #272, 06-14-2005 12:19 AM
      PS: after doing a little reading and placing the wire harness on the engine I feel very happy about going with the Holly/CHRF system. I'm not nearly as concerned with the electronics portion of this project as I once was. CHRF did a great job of setting up the system to get it up and running with a minimum of frustration.

Russ

bryson MSG #273, 06-14-2005 02:19 AM
      I can't wait to see the finished (I use the term loosely ) product. If you wire the car like you've done everything else, that Commander will look nice enough to be factory. Excellent job on everything!
--Bryson


Russ544 MSG #274, 06-14-2005 11:34 PM
      Thanks Bryson. I just bought a used stock Fiero engine wireing harness from Fierosforever, so when that gets here I'll be able to "merge" it with the CHRF harness to where it will look original. I plan to route the wireing through the original location in the firewall and place the Holly computer in the stock Fiero location so, ya, it should look very much like a factory installation. I do put a lot of thought and effort in making things look like OEM whenever possible. I love it when I can convince a hot-rodder that "ya... the V-8 (in my sbc car) was a really rare Fiero option. only a few were ever made" and have them actually believe it.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 06-15-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #275, 06-19-2005 05:04 PM
      I managed a couple small projects this weekend. One project was to cut a new gravel shield from a sheet of aluminum for the belhousing. There isn't much room behind the N flywheel, so the center cutout portion has to be fit up around the block casting instead of the crank flange. (if anyone wants to make one I made a poster board pattern).

The other accomplishment was a bit more involved. A buddy of mine owns a muffler shop, so I was able to get a pair of Dynomax super-turbo mufflers, which have a nice mellow tone, for ~ $40.oo each. With those, a pile of mandrel bends, and my new Miller 175 welder, an exhaust system was born . With the soft motor mounts I'm using I expect the engine to move around quite a bit so to help avoid tubing cracks I made brackets to bolt the two mufflers together to stiffen things up a bit and then suspended them at each tailpipe with dual springs to the cradle to offset the hanging weight.
I like the sound of a system with a crossover, and a few horsepower are released as well, so one was squeezed in over the top of the mufflers. The flanges allow each muffler to be removed independently.




I'll be using stock Fiero GT exhaust tips, but of course those won't go on until the whole lump goes into the car so they can be lined up properly.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 06-20-2005).]

Master Tuner Akimoto MSG #276, 06-19-2005 05:22 PM
      Question: are you going to cut the trunk out in order for that set up to fit under the car ?I am doing a 5.1 reinstall but it will have a twin turbo just about where the exhaust was then I will have to attatch a flowmaster behind the turbos so I have no other choice but chop the trunk.

Russ544 MSG #277, 06-19-2005 06:51 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Master Tuner Akimoto:

Question: are you going to cut the trunk out in order for that set up to fit under the car ?I am doing a 5.1 reinstall but it will have a twin turbo just about where the exhaust was then I will have to attatch a flowmaster behind the turbos so I have no other choice but chop the trunk.

The lower 1/2 of the trunk, up to the "shelf", will have to go. I'll install a 1/2" insulation sheet under the new floor of the trunk, which leaves about 1" clearance to the crossover pipe. there will be about 1 1/2" clearance behind the mufflers as I like to leave the rear wall of the trunk intack to serve as a heat shield.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 06-20-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #278, 06-19-2005 10:45 PM
      PS:
You know how something will just nag at you for no reason? After dinner I just had to go back out into the shop and change the angle of the crossover pipe where it joins the cross-under pipe. The entry angle wasn't correct, but in reality it won't make a diddly difference.... except that now it won't nag and annoy me LOL .

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 06-19-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #279, 06-20-2005 05:20 AM
      very creative!


THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #280, 06-20-2005 12:31 PM
      Very well done!
And thank you for your answers on the stock exhaust headers!

Keep the good work!

JG

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #281, 06-20-2005 09:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
CHRF supplied the clutch, pressure plate and custom flywheel. they all look great. the disk is a dual friction style with Kevlar pucks on one side and full organic on the other.

I guess this worked OK for you? AIUI, the T5, which they are accustomed to serving, has a different spline than the 282...

Russ544 MSG #282, 06-20-2005 10:50 PM
      Alan asked me what spline I needed at the time I ordered the clutch. otherwise it's the same one they use on the sand rails. (Fiero is 1"-14 spline)

I am working through a potential small issue with the clutch as it relates to the Isuzu trans however. After looking at a couple stock clutches I have laying around It appears that the V-6 clutches have a slightly larger diameter contact area for the throwout bearing. the bearing for the Isuzu trans sits very near the tip of the fingers. I had been under the impression that all Fiero clutches were the same, with only the throwout bearing height differing, but I'm finding this to be untrue.
When I've had time to research this more I'll report what I find. It may work fine as it is, but I need to convince myself that it's all as it should be.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 06-21-2005).]

tesmith66 MSG #283, 06-21-2005 07:01 AM
      It'll work. Been running a V6 clutch in an Isuzu for several years with no issues. Archie has been doing it for a looooong time with no troubles.



Alex4mula (torres_a@hotmail.com) MSG #284, 06-21-2005 08:43 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

....

The stock front manifold will serve duty in it's new Fiero home and provide a spot for the O2 sensor (only one is needed with the Holly computer that I plan to use).

Awesome work! Did I understand correctly that you will use a stock manifold in the front and the header you built in the trunk side?



Russ544 MSG #285, 06-21-2005 08:50 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Alex4mula:


Awesome work! Did I understand correctly that you will use a stock manifold in the front and the header you built in the trunk side?

Yes. Although the front manifold looks like a cast piece in the pics it's actually a fabricated "tube" header with runner diameters similar to the 1 5/8" ones I built for the rear.

Russ544 MSG #286, 06-24-2005 10:39 PM
      One last wrap up on this clutch package before moving on. The clutch is installed, for the duration this time, and seems to be working perfectly. the "clocking" of the release arm seems to be just about ideal, allowing just a tick over 1" of travel at the slave pushrod, which should be just right for this trans setup.
I did run into one puzzling situation with the flywheel as it was just too thick to allow for clutch engagement. I have no doubt whatever that Alan (CHRF) would have had it taken care of for me, but it was no big deal to just have it faced off myself. In order to actually match the stock Fiero 4 banger specs, about .210 would have to be removed from the face but I preferred to leave a few thou of a shoulder for the ring gear to seat against so I had .200 taken off instead. apparently none of the other flywheels CHRF has sold for Fiero use have had this issue, so we assume it's just an Isuzu thing. One other "Isuzu thing" is that the throwout bearing has a smaller thrust surface diameter than the Muncie or Getrag, so it sits very close to the tip of the clutch fingers. This doesn't seem to be a problem with a few hundred SBC swaps however, so hopefully it won't be a problem for the N* either.

So now I get to some real fun. wiring . I layed the Holly/CHRF harness out on the engine today to see how it fits. everything looks great... so naturally I need to change it all . I don't intend to use the Cad decorative cover so I want to hide as much wiring and hoses as possible. the design of the intake manifold should allow for most of the wiring to be hidden under it, so tomorrow I'll be pulling it off and beginning the cut and splice project. I had hoped that the used Fiero engine harness I bought from a forum member would show up today, but it seems to be my normal luck for parts to show up on the Monday after the weekend I needed them, so this time should be no different. I'm sure I can find something to do in the meantime. The Holly harness makes the engine run, but the Fiero harness is still needed to monitor/control things like oil pressure and temp guages, charging and starting systems, etc.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 06-24-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #287, 06-25-2005 11:13 PM
      I gota give a big thumbs up to Fierosforever here. I purchased a stock 88 engine wire harness from him recently and he must have sent it out the same day he received my payment. I received it today. Seems like some other forum members aren't very.... uhhhh "punctual" when it comes to shipping parts. so Thanks John !

I find wiring to be a very tedious process. I'm always afraid I'll cut the wrong wire so I check and double or triple check each and every wire before it gets cut and tossed in the dumpster. Some wires may not be needed for their original function but can perform another duty in the system so careful planning is helpful.
Lots of wires hit the floor today, but tomorrow I'll be combining what's left of the stock harness with the Holly/CHRF harness so it will get beefed up again soon.
The items that remain from the Fiero harness are: temp gauge sender, oil pres sender, speedo plug, bu light plug, starter wireing and alt wiring, Several ground and hot wires that will tie in to the other harness are retained as well. All the original Fiero computer wiring, plugs and ecm have hit the floor.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 06-27-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #288, 06-26-2005 01:50 AM
      this is where i really need to pay attention!

(looks like someone is getting a haircut)...

Russ544 MSG #289, 06-26-2005 09:43 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

this is where i really need to pay attention!

(looks like someone is getting a haircut)...

Anyone who follows me down this road is in for a bumpy ride, cause I don't have a clue where I'm going LOL .
I do intend to put in a little more detail on this part as this is the part that worries most people (myself included). but be aware that I expect I'll make a few mistakes here and may have to do some backtracking.

Russ


Russ544 MSG #290, 06-26-2005 09:52 PM
      Wheeew. what a long tedious day in the land of N. The wiring isn't proving to be particularly difficult..... just time consuming. I realized this morning that I didn't need the Fiero fuel pump relay as one is incorporated into the CHRF harness along with it's own fuse, so a couple more changes were made to the Fiero harness right off the bat.
The tan/wht wire gets cut as it enters the Fiero relay to be joined up with the grn/blk wire from the Holly harness. In order to retain the fuel pump backup function of the oil pressure switch the two or/wht wires at the Fiero relay are cut and joined together. The old ground wire at the Fiero relay is no longer needed and can be removed completely. This is what the Fiero harness looked like after the "excess" wires were removed.

Next I layed out the harness on the engine and began "fitting" it to the N* . virtually every wire needed some alteration. after that phase it looked like this. note that the portion of the harness that ends up inside the cabin (bottom of pic) isn't visible in this photo, but is in the lower right 1/4 of the pic above.

Once the Fiero portion of the harness was done, the CHRF portion was layed out on the engine along with the modified Fiero harness so they can be blended together. I removed much of the wire loom that came on the CHRF harness so the two harnesses can be packaged together, and to access the individual wires that I wanted to alter in order to route them in a more hidden fashion. note that a number of wires are being routed under the manifold. I figure at least one more full day just to finish up the engine wiring, but it's coming along.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #291, 06-27-2005 01:31 AM
      I dunno Russ, it looks like you have it under control. Since I won't be wiring anytime soon. I'll get to see how your creation works.


Russ544 MSG #292, 06-27-2005 09:04 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I dunno Russ, it looks like you have it under control. Since I won't be wiring anytime soon. I'll get to see how your creation works.

Have you determined what was going on with your compression issue? I haven't seen a report from you for a wile.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #293, 06-27-2005 01:02 PM
      yes and no.

I was able to get good compression from the #8 cyl by spiking the valves. it took over a month for a friend to ship a fibre scope to us to try out. the fibre scope was pretty inconclusive. no obvious big damage but you can tell that by rotating the engine and it is smooth. i am on my way to autozone now to borrow a harmonic balancer puller so i can remove the front engine cover and release the tension on the timing chain tensioner. the plan is to run the engine and see how bad the smoke is. if it is not too bad I will continure to run the engine and see if it gets better or worse.

Russ544 MSG #294, 07-09-2005 11:08 PM
      Wireing is essentially done. I see now why you seldom see any detailed writeups on wireing. it's such a tedious and time consuming project that by the time you get a days work done you've forgotten what wire you cut and spiced to which wire earlier that morning . Granted, it ain't running yet, but it wasn't really as bad as I had feared. As I mentioned before, many of the wires are run under the manifold to clean up the top side, and I'm pretty happy with the way it came out in that regard.

I am looking forward to using more basic tools again like hammers saws and welders however .... that stuff I understand

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-10-2005).]

86FieroGTAce (racingace86@aol.com) MSG #295, 07-09-2005 11:57 PM
      Hey Russ, or anybody for that matter, can you help me find a widebody kit for my '86 GT fastback? Email me at AirForceAce86@aol.com. And thanks.

Russ544 MSG #296, 07-10-2005 09:28 PM
      It was a productive day in the land of N

With all the computer controled devices on the stock Cad you'd think there would be a plethera of sensor holes in the block, but the truth is there aren't even enough to go around, in a Fiero swap anyway. a place to poke the temp guage sender is the stumper, but as the throttle body heat was going in the dumpster anyway, a table opened up just in time for lunch. I wasn't inclined to pull the water log off just to drill and tap the hole out to the 3/8" pipe thread required for the sender, so a shop vac was attached to the water inlet in order to suck the chips out, and away from the water pump.


In the spirit of keeping the top of the motor clean, I didn't want to have another hose draped over the runners for the power brake hose, which is on the "wrong" side of the Cad intake, so an alternate route was found. This ought to give the bench racers at the car shows something to scratch their head over LOL




For those not familiar with the N*, what I've done here is to utilise what was once the EGR passage through the water manifold to get the power brake vacume to it's destination. EGR is not supported with the Holly computer anyway so the EGR valve and all it's related hoses were tossed. The PB hose will attach to the filter on top of the water pump belt cover. also circled above is the old EGR port into the valve body, which I ran the 3/8" pipe tap into so it can be plugged. the sensor circled is the water temp unit mentioned above.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-10-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #297, 07-10-2005 09:33 PM
      Most of the reassembly took place today also . this baby is getting mean looking




I gotta build a new hose to re-route that pvc line off the top of the manifold. I just noticed that.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #298, 07-11-2005 12:58 AM
     

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 07-11-2005).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #299, 07-11-2005 10:15 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
In the spirit of keeping the top of the motor clean, I didn't want to have another hose draped over the runners for the power brake hose, which is on the "wrong" side of the Cad intake, so an alternate route was found. This ought to give the bench racers at the car shows something to scratch their head over LOL




For those not familiar with the N*, what I've done here is to utilise what was once the EGR passage through the water manifold to get the power brake vacume to it's destination. EGR is not supported with the Holly computer anyway so the EGR valve and all it's related hoses were tossed. The PB hose will attach to the filter on top of the water pump belt cover. also circled above is the old EGR port into the valve body, which I ran the 3/8" pipe tap into so it can be plugged. the sensor circled is the water temp unit mentioned above.

Dude, that's a sweeet idea. I like your harness routing, too.

Russ544 MSG #300, 07-13-2005 12:12 AM
      Thanks Will. I've been thinking about moving the coil pac to the area in front of the burp valve, between the valve covers. that would kind of cover the mass of wires where they all come together there. I'm just not sure if the decklid would close if it was mounted that high.



Fieroeddie (fieroeddie@sbcglobal.net) MSG #301, 07-13-2005 03:12 AM
      Russ that exhaust looks pretty trick. Nice work on it.

[This message has been edited by Fieroeddie (edited 07-13-2005).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #302, 07-13-2005 05:56 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

Thanks Will. I've been thinking about moving the coil pac to the area in front of the burp valve, between the valve covers. that would kind of cover the mass of wires where they all come together there. I'm just not sure if the decklid would close if it was mounted that high.

One thing you CAN do is move the coil pack to the left about 4". There are two sets of mounts and it looks like you're using the right hand set. If you use the left hand set, you won't have to do as much cutting of the dogbone bracket on the chassis and you'll have better access to the PCV grommet (for installing new oil).


Russ544 MSG #303, 07-13-2005 09:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


One thing you CAN do is move the coil pack to the left about 4". There are two sets of mounts and it looks like you're using the right hand set. If you use the left hand set, you won't have to do as much cutting of the dogbone bracket on the chassis and you'll have better access to the PCV grommet (for installing new oil).

Actually it is mounted in the left holes now. I think I'll get a valve cover from CHRF to make it look a little nicer on the "show me" side, but the new cover won't have the mount holes for the coil pack. It will have to be moved somewhere, but I may have to wait until it goes in the car to finalize the location.

Maybe you, or anyone out there, can give me some ideas on the evap system to use on this swap? I'm thinking of using the Fiero evap canister and plumbing it like the stock Fiero system, but not sure where to get a ported vac signal for that. I haven't really investigated it in depth, but maybe someone has a good solution for this ??????

Cheers,
Russ


Fiero STS (onesupermech@netscape.net) MSG #304, 07-13-2005 10:20 PM
      I used the fiero evap canister and plumbing to the tank. I also hooked up to manifold vacuum. I used the caddy evap solenoid hooked to the caddy ecm to run the thing. I believe there is a prt on the TB that is not used which is for port vacuum.it is on the top side but is covered buy the rubber gromet that has the intake vacuum port.

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #305, 07-14-2005 06:59 PM
      what he said

Russ544 MSG #306, 07-16-2005 09:23 PM
      brief update:
I got the water lines hooked up today out to the underbody tubes. I robbed some underbody pipes off a parts car and used three pieces welded together to form a crossover pipe. they are retained by utilizing the clamps from the Fiero pipes. one half of the clamp was welded on the crossmember, along with a hook to retain the other 1/2 of the stock retainer on one side of the pipe which is then bolted on to clamp it down. worked great.
A visit to my friendly auto parts stores hose room netted some hoses with appropriate bends and one elbow that also reduces the water pump line from 1 1/2" to the crossover pipes 1 1/4". Some of the hoses are actually original Fiero parts .

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-16-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #307, 07-16-2005 11:01 PM
      I don't know what's wrong with those Cadilac engineers. It seems like everything is on the wrong side of these engines. heck even the engine was in the wrong end of the car. dumb. sure make it hard to get it all fixed the right way .
Wile at the hose room today I picked up a U-turn 3/4" hose, intending to use it on the other side of the manifold to get around the throwout arm and to get it pointed in the "correct" dirrection. it fit better here however, so I'll look tomorrow for a tighter radius for the other side. The hard line came with my N* in a box of parts, so I'm not actually sure what it was for but it fits here perfectly and had the necessary bead around each end to retain the hoses and is bent in just the right places to shoot under the shift cable plate.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-16-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #308, 07-17-2005 07:50 PM
      I did a little homework today on how the cooling system works on the Cad, and how that would best be incorporated into the Fiero. What I came up with is to use a surge tank from a C-4 Corvette. the shape and size is about right and I have a friend who says he has one on a parts car. the one shown is on my own 92, but all C-4s seem to have the same tank.


The highest points in the system need to be bleed of any air pockets by attaching a line to them and routing it to the lower port on the neck of the surge tank where it can be purged into a low mounted coolant recovery tank via the upper port on the surge tank. Water is circulated through the surge tank at all times as it gets plumbed in line with the heater hose system.
As I showed earlier, I enlarged the port near the radiator hose neck to accept a temp sender, thus eliminating the original purge port, so a new vent needed to be made in that area. One of the bolts that holds on the bracket on top of the neck is screwed into a blind hole, but by drilling it on through into the water passage below it and tapping the hole for 10MM threads (note shop vac to extract chips), the old vent fitting can now be installed here.




Purging the high point of the radiator itself will be experimental, as I plan to install a cap on the radiator and run a line from the overflow port all the way back to the surge tank purge line. the pressure cap will be on the surge tank itself and both the surge tank and overflow recovery tank will be located in the engine bay.


It's too hot to work any more today (103*). I need beer

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-17-2005).]

Jolcon (jball@optimsm.com) MSG #309, 07-21-2005 10:53 AM
      Hello there! I am new to the forum and have been following all of your posts Russ. I would also like to have a 4.3L V6 installed into my 86 GT. I live in Vancouver Wa and do not have the ability to install it myself so it will have to be done by a local mechanic. That is unless you do installs :-) It wont be right away, as the engine thats in the car runs so well, I want to get some miles out of it before the swap. The information you post is much appreciated.

[This message has been edited by Jolcon (edited 07-21-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #310, 07-21-2005 02:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
It's too hot to work any more today (103*). I need beer

roger that statement!

i spent 7 hours replacing the motor mounts on my 86 fiero... (one of the mounts needed a little mod.) in 105+ degree temps. there was not enough beer...


Russ544 MSG #311, 07-21-2005 09:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jolcon:

Hello there! I am new to the forum and have been following all of your posts Russ. I would also like to have a 4.3L V6 installed into my 86 GT. I live in Vancouver Wa and do not have the ability to install it myself so it will have to be done by a local mechanic. That is unless you do installs :-) It wont be right away, as the engine thats in the car runs so well, I want to get some miles out of it before the swap. The information you post is much appreciated.

It's always good to hear when people get some usefull information out of my build threads. It's my hope that a few people who wouldn't have attempted a project will reconcider after seeing someone else doing it, and ultimatly be able to enjoy some of what I enjoy, in the process of creation. I do understand how some folks just don't have the tools, ability or even the desire to do major projects however. Unfortunatly I can't seem to find the time to even get all my own projects compleated, so I don't take on outside work. Perhaps smeone here will see this and be able to help you when the time comes for your swap.

Cheers,
Russ


Jolcon (jball@optimsm.com) MSG #312, 07-21-2005 11:43 PM
      Glad you replied Russ. One thing that would be helpful is if you could maybe list things the mechanic will need to know when he starts to install the 4.3

I can gather some info from your previous posts. I see where you changed your mnd about mounting the water pump upside down. I probably dont need a walkthru, but things he will run into, where a decision has to be made, may be helpful since you have already done this project.

I do have some questions though, like:

Should I ditch the stock automatic tranny and get the isuzu manual one?
What year of engine do I want and from what vehicle?
What kind of carb do I need?
And where can I get the wiring harness info?
Should I buy the Archie's kit for the builder to use?
And how much beer is it going to cost me for all this info?


Oh! Yeah! And next time you are in Vancouver Wa, can you give me a ride in your 4.3 Fiero?

[This message has been edited by Jolcon (edited 07-21-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #313, 07-21-2005 11:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jolcon:


Should I ditch the stock automatic tranny and get the isuzu manual one?
What year of engine do I want and from what vehicle?
What kind of carb do I need?
And where can I get the wiring harness info?
Should I buy the Archie's kit for the builder to use?
And how much beer is it going to cost me for all this info?


Oh! Yeah! And next time you are in Vancouver Wa, can you give me a ride in your 4.3 Fiero?

Most of the important details can be found here:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20050119-1-044164.html

If you want a ride in the 4.3 IMSA you'll have to get here pretty soon as it's getting very close to giving up it's place in the engine bay for the N* . I bought a Formula pretty cheep a wile back that should provide a home for it someday, but I have lots of other projects in line before that one gets it's turn.
I do think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the power of the 4.3 if you warm it up a little. it's a very very nice package for the Fiero IMHO.
To answer your specific questions:
The tranny is a point of personal preference. personally I think all hot rods should have a clutch.

The carb I'm currently using is an Edelbrock 500 . it works great for my setup with the moderate cam etc.

I'll let you know when I have my quota of beer. just keep it coming

Russ

EDIT PS: The stock Chev HEI is a computer controled unit which needs to be modified for non computer use. There's a local guy here in SW Or that does the conversion on it for like $50.oo or $60.oo . let me know when the time comes and I'll hook you up with him or drop your dist off to him for you.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-22-2005).]

Jolcon (jball@optimsm.com) MSG #314, 07-22-2005 02:03 AM
      I noticed in your write up, that you did not mention anything about the AC. I dont ever use mine but thought I'd ask since it looked in the photo like the alternator was where the ac unit on the 2.8 would be.

Russ544 MSG #315, 07-22-2005 09:36 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jolcon:

I noticed in your write up, that you did not mention anything about the AC. I dont ever use mine but thought I'd ask since it looked in the photo like the alternator was where the ac unit on the 2.8 would be.

yup. no ac on this car.

Russ544 MSG #316, 07-22-2005 01:57 PM
      For anyone curious what I look like just look in the dictionary under "idiot".
As a Corvette owner one learns to expect to get the shaft at the parts stores, so when I needed a surge tank for the N* project I first called a friend of mine who has a vette parts car. at first he said he had one, but then discovered it wasn't any good so I went to what I assumed would be the next best source.... my usual wreaking yard. they did a serarch and finally came up with one across the country for $80.00 . I choked a bit as I said "order it", believing it would be 3 times that much from my local Chev dealer. well today I went by the dealer to check on the price of an overflow tank, cause I wanted a brand new one of those. when he told me it was only $11.00 for a brand new Vette overflow tank I just about fell off the stool (and so did he actually) so I asked how much the surge tank was............................... $46.oo . &$#@*% .

The idiot

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #317, 07-22-2005 03:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

I did a little homework today on how the cooling system works on the Cad, and how that would best be incorporated into the Fiero. What I came up with is to use a surge tank from a C-4 Corvette. the shape and size is about right and I have a friend who says he has one on a parts car. the one shown is on my own 92, but all C-4s seem to have the same tank.


The highest points in the system need to be bleed of any air pockets by attaching a line to them and routing it to the lower port on the neck of the surge tank where it can be purged into a low mounted coolant recovery tank via the upper port on the surge tank. Water is circulated through the surge tank at all times as it gets plumbed in line with the heater hose system.


Purging the high point of the radiator itself will be experimental, as I plan to install a cap on the radiator and run a line from the overflow port all the way back to the surge tank purge line. the pressure cap will be on the surge tank itself and both the surge tank and overflow recovery tank will be located in the engine bay.

I have the Vette Surge Tank on my S* GT and have run it for over a year. This is how I mounted it.


As far as the vent line on the Rad goes, I dont think you will need it. I have a 20# cap on my Rad and a 16# cap on the VST. The hose barb on the Rad is pluged so no air can get in and I dont have a surge tank in front anymore. ALL of the work is done at the rear cap on the VST. I have run this system in 105+ weather and had no problem. To purge the Rad all you need to do is twist the Rad cap off till coolant comes out then twist it back on. I am not concerned about steem in the Rad because it will condence into coolant as the rad cools. If I get so much steem in the Rad that it causes a problem, then there is a much more serius cooling problem that is causing all that steem.



Russ544 MSG #318, 07-22-2005 06:36 PM
      HEY. how did you steal my idea for the Vette surge tank before _I_ even had it ? you're good

Looks really good Rickady88gt. I assume you have the overflow tank mounted low, over by the trans? did you use the Vette overflow tank on your car as well? I actually plan to put the surge tank on the drivers side, as I plan to put my oil cooler on the right, to take advantage of the IMSAs right side vent. My left side vent is destined to feed cool air to the air cleaner. I'm getting to a point now where I need to actually plug the engine into the car to finalise some of these details. the space available is shinking, so more carefull planning is needed all the time.
BTW: thanks for the tip on the rad vent. I guess I'll use my "optional" plan of installing a petcock in the radiator overflow tube in case I want to check for any air up there.
.
thanks for the input,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-22-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #319, 07-22-2005 10:09 PM
      I'm using the Holly Comander computer system but the Holly has no provision to operate a vapor canister system the way the Cad ecm did. I wanted to retain the canister, and figured I could operate it the same way the stock Fiero did. unfortunatly the 98 N* throttle body doesn't come with a "ported vacume" port. No big deal,.............. it has one now
drill 1/8" hole all the way through, at the max angle possible, into the throttle bore, then drill through the outer housing with a 3/16" drill and 1/2 way through the bore wall itself.

3/16" brake line was used to fab a fitting. it fits snug in the hole but got epoxied in place to seal it just the same

I now have a ported vacume port

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-22-2005).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #320, 07-23-2005 02:53 AM
      Cool thanks.
No I dont have any "overflow tank" per say like the stock Fiero. I only have the Vette Surge Tank and it is mounted as high as posable just over the C500 plug. Infact it is the highest point of the cooling system so the air will go into it and not out of it. It has a constant flow of coolant thru it via the TB heater system. BTW I disabled the TB heater lines so now the TB runs cool.
One thing you will need to think about is all the lines that run into and out of it? It has an overflow/vent line, I just ran this one with the stock Vette hose down the front side of the engine. It dose not drip coolant on the engine but dose drip on the exhaust but very rarely. The surge tank has the constant flow "purge" line that is what you drilled and tapped for. And it also has two large hose barbs for cooant to return back to the coolant system. I ran one of them to my T stat housing like the stock Intrigue and the other down to the hose barb that is on the stock Fiero coolant return pipe just above the right hand front cradle bolt. The stock Fiero heater return line that used to go to that hose barb now runs to the stock S* heater return on the engine.


crzyone (crzyone@cablerocket.com) MSG #321, 07-23-2005 06:42 AM
      Awesome build thread man. Just makes me realize how much work I still have to look forward to on my N* swap. It will be a miracle if I finish this year.

Thanks for including so much detail, and your brake booster hose on the egr port is brilliant. I will be doing the same thing now that I've seen it, nice and clean looking.

Levi

Russ544 MSG #322, 07-24-2005 03:57 PM
      Well....... I went backwards yesterday. As is always the case whenever a show is the following weekend, everything went wrong. My SBC car developed the standard "corner of the intake manifold oil leak", and I don't mean a little one. I thought I had a temporary fix and have the car all cleaned up and shiny. even installed some bling bling ( see http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/053418.html ) but when I went for a 10 mile test drive the leak is back so the manifold has to come off .
I thought the Northstar was pretty close to being ready for a trial fit also. I was checking to see that all the nuts and bolts were tight and doing a final check of the wiring, but when I hit the starter it turned over a 1/4 turn and stopped dead. I pulled the manifold thinking it was a starter problem but discovered instead that the edge of the clutch is hitting inside the trans case. not by much.... but just a little is way too much in this case. A ton of extra work is needed just to grind off a small amount of metal, but it's gota be done. #$@*&....... I'll have a Bud please.... and keep em coming.





Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #323, 07-25-2005 09:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
CHRF supplied the clutch, pressure plate and custom flywheel. they all look great. the disk is a dual friction style with Kevlar pucks on one side and full organic on the other.

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
I guess this worked OK for you? AIUI, the T5, which they are accustomed to serving, has a different spline than the 282...

I guess the profile of the pressure plates is different from longi to transverse apps...

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #324, 07-25-2005 09:09 PM
      Oh yeah, let us know how that Centerfarce turns out.
Mine's plenty streetable, but kinda marginal with the Northstar.


Russ544 MSG #325, 07-25-2005 09:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Oh yeah, let us know how that Centerfarce turns out.
Mine's plenty streetable, but kinda marginal with the Northstar.

Bite 'jur toung there sonny. that ain't no stinkin Centerfarce.
Actually I have no experience with this clutch at all but Alan of CHRF says they use them on some pretty high horsepower sand rails with good results and I've been rather unimpressed with both the Centerforce and Spec units that I've used so I'll give this setup a try. It's a Mccloud 9 11/16" unit with a dual friction material (organic/kevlar puck) sprung disk.
The interference was really minor but needed to be addressed. about 1/16" needs to come off the bellhousing near the throwout fork, over an area of ~ 3/4" x 1/4". also keep in mind that I'm usinfg the Isuzu trans which was intended for a pretty small presure plate.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 07-25-2005).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #326, 07-26-2005 11:18 AM
      'Bout time somebody went to the 9 11/16" disk...

Jolcon (jball@optimsm.com) MSG #327, 07-27-2005 05:06 PM
      Hey Russ! I have a friend that is giving me an 88 JIMMY with a 4.3 in it. Is that a good year to use? He offered me the whole vehicle for a trade of my digital camera (worth $500.00), and the vehicle runs fine.

Russ544 MSG #328, 07-28-2005 10:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jolcon:

Hey Russ! I have a friend that is giving me an 88 JIMMY with a 4.3 in it. Is that a good year to use? He offered me the whole vehicle for a trade of my digital camera (worth $500.00), and the vehicle runs fine.

sure that should be fine, but then again you could most likely get a decent 88 4.3 from a wreak for less money. you'll still need an 85 - 86 4.3 HEI dist., and a decent manifold (Edelbrock makes em).

Russ (on temporary life support from a clunky WIN 98' box wile my real one gets repaired) Camp

Jolcon (jball@optimsm.com) MSG #329, 07-29-2005 10:38 AM
      I take it you are refering to the intake manifold in your post above. If the engine is fuel injection, do you suggest getting the intake and switching to carb to make it easier? From what I have been reading it seems easier to do the wiring also if you have a carb.

[This message has been edited by Jolcon (edited 07-29-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #330, 07-30-2005 01:28 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jolcon:

I take it you are refering to the intake manifold in your post above. If the engine is fuel injection, do you suggest getting the intake and switching to carb to make it easier? From what I have been reading it seems easier to do the wiring also if you have a carb.

I guess you coud use the TBI if you wanted to, but yes, a carb makes wireing much easier and I really haven't seen where the tbi is actually any better than carb in this case anyway.

Jolcon (jball@optimsm.com) MSG #331, 07-31-2005 10:23 PM
      Well, the Jimmy is sitting in my driveway. Now I just need to figure out what all I need to take out of it before I give the rest of it away.

Russ544 MSG #332, 08-12-2005 02:49 PM
      Just a quick update. Between the 100*+ temps here lately, and my major computer woes (I'm still on life support with this old win98 box) I haven't gotten much done on the car. I still can't download any pics until I get my "real" computer back next week, but today I'm dropping the 4.3 and preparing for the first test fit of the N*.

Jolcon. how much were you budgeting for your 4.3 swap? With all the projects I have lined up here I may not ever get around to putting the 4.3 back in my Formula as planned so I may concider selling it as a package deal. on the 88 cradel, with trans, etc. everything needed right down to the hose clamps and wireing. I'll come up with a price if you're seriously interested in this option. I guarantee it would be ~ 1/4th the price of having it done for you or 1/2 of building it yourself and this way it could be in and running in a day.

later
Russ


Philphine (philphine@live.com) MSG #333, 08-13-2005 04:52 PM
      just getting a chance to look at this whole thread. lots of stuff to inspire me to work harder at my cars. good stuff.

Russ544 MSG #334, 08-13-2005 06:47 PM
      Thanks Philphine. we all need motivation now and then

Too bad I don't have my "real" computer back yet to be able to share some pics... but trust me..... the Northstar is a beautiful thing sittin' in there . the first test fit is going very well. 1/2" seems to be the magic number as virtually every critical point between engine and engine bay came up with that amount of clearance somehow. Even the shock tower will not require the usual modifications. I'll be using my stock springs and shocks on this 88 N* . Maybe the Isuzu trans is a tad bit shorter from engine face to axle bearing? The only clearance alteration of any kind will be a small dimple to give a little more wiggle room at the upper valve cover bolt. it misses the shock tower by ~ 1/16" right now. Today I'm marking areas in the engine bay where I want heater hoses, fuel lines, PB vac line and wiring loom to terminate for a clean installation.
I had been unsure how I was going to set up a dogbone but now that the engine is sitting in there I see a nice solution. I'll be cutting off the left side and top of the old dogbone mount and then the old right side will become the new left side of a mount bracket, along with a new flange for the right side. a fabbed dogbone will then connect to a "bridge" which will attached to existing tabs on the ends of each head.
Actually I'm surprised at how accessible things are on this swap. Wile there isn't any spare room anymore, the things that need access have access.

film at 11
Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #335, 08-13-2005 10:15 PM
      sounds very good Russ. I went through a lot of trouble to keep the engine/trans in the stock location but it sounds like you got around that in good shape.


Russ544 MSG #336, 08-14-2005 11:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

sounds very good Russ. I went through a lot of trouble to keep the engine/trans in the stock location but it sounds like you got around that in good shape.

It must be an Isuzu thing, as I don't recall ever hearing of a N* in an 88 that didn't require cutting the strut tower and using coilovers. I was looking at the 4.3 sitting on the cradel, which also has an Isuzu btw, and it's only about 1/4" further to the right than I mounted the N*. I had moved the 4.3 over to the left by the Archie method of elongating the mount holes, which means ~ 1/2 - 3/4" I guess.
I found a radiator "overflow tank" in the housewares section of Freddys today so I'll do a little plumbing this afternoon

Russ

vinny (jph15@msstate.edu) MSG #337, 08-26-2005 07:59 PM
      How much wider are the rear fenders than they were originally? What about the front?

Vinny

Russ544 MSG #338, 08-26-2005 10:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by vinny:

How much wider are the rear fenders than they were originally? What about the front?

Vinny

huum. seems like i did measure that once.... I think it was 2 1/2" (per side) in the rear and 1 1/2" in the front as I recall.

Russ

Russ544 MSG #339, 08-28-2005 10:30 PM
      I'm so agravated at the folks who are "upgrading" my home computer. it's been one excuse after another for 3+ weeks now. I've had them build several systems for me over the years, and many upgrades, but it's always the same ol' crap with delays and feet dragging. Apparently genius and ineptitude go hand in hand.................... So maybe I'll have photos sometime this coming week.
I've taken a number of photos, and find each one worth a thousand words, but without a way to download them the verbal recap is that the N* is in it's permanent home now. Since my last installment I've installed all the fuel lines, heater hoses, radiator lines, including the surge tank and overflow bottle, power brake vac line, evap canister and related hoses, throttle cable and bracket. The oil cooler is installed with it's new ductwork to the IMSA side vent and it's lines fabricated and installed. The fuel tank came down and the LT-1 pump was installed. All the engine electrical inside the engine bay is finished, which included re-locating both of the wire harness pass-throughs in the bulkhead. I've always thought those things looked ugly in their stock location so they were both lowered out of eyesight. the clutch linkage is all back together and seems to be functioning perfectly. in fact I didn't even have to re-bleed the system as I left the slave attached when the 6 came out. The shift linkage also works great with the new bellcranks and so forth. no binding of the cables from the new routing etc..... I'm happy !!
Today I spent the entire day fabricating a new dogbone and brackets. sometimes i just get engrossed in a part as if it was the whole project. usually when that happens a piece of art develops so i don't fight the urge and this time was no exception..... but you'll have to wait for the pics to judge that for yourselves.
Next weekend should see the suspension/brakes reassembled and then the computer gets mounted and tested, and software installed. the possibility exists to turn the key by the end of next weekend


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #340, 08-29-2005 01:34 AM
      sounds awesome!


KissMySSFiero (ssfiero@aol.com) MSG #341, 08-31-2005 12:32 PM
      How close is the Valve cover to the strut tower?

Great build up thread.

Russ544 MSG #342, 08-31-2005 08:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KissMySSFiero:

How close is the Valve cover to the strut tower?

Great build up thread.

Thanks.. The closest point is the end valve cover bolt which ended up about 1/4" away. I did cut a hole about 1" x 2" in the tower to provide some wiggle room for that area. I bonded some reinforced rubber material onto the inside of the tower to cover the hole so you don't really even notice it's there.

Cheers,
Russ


Russ544 MSG #343, 09-03-2005 12:04 AM
      I had a lot of business errands to take care of today so I didn't get to work on the car as much as I wanted to. regardless, I did get most of the suspension reassembled with the exception of the brakes. I got the ecm mounted (in more-or-less the stock location) and did a lot of testing of the electrical circuts at the ecm plug faces. B+ where it should be, "key on" power at the correct terminal, good grounds, fan and fuel pump work from the ecm, etc. I have my laptop charging and the car battery being topped off as well, so tomorrow I can test for actual fuel pressure, put water in the rad, plug in the ecm and.................. everybody cross their fingers at about 10:00 AM and we'll see what happens. It's time for the moment of truth.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-03-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #344, 09-03-2005 12:11 AM
      Hey Russ, can you do like Bill Strong and make a first try video?

can't wait to hear how it goes!


Russ544 MSG #345, 09-03-2005 02:01 PM
      YA BABY !!

Talk about being nervous as a new papa. After checking and triple checking everything this morning for the fourth time I realized I couldn't postpone any longer and needed to just grab myself by the bootstraps and DO IT. It took a bit to build fuel pressure, then there was a faint "puff".... and a pop out the TB. another crank or two and it gradually came to life. It sounded a bit rough at first. even made me a little nervous for a moment, but not being run for who knows how many years had no doubt allowed the lifters to bleed down a bit..... and a few spiders most likely found their God today as well, but gradually it smoothed out and found it's gate. I only ran it for 1 or 2 minutes as the header paint was obviously being heat cured pretty well , and I wanted to check for any leaks needing attention so I shut her down. everything looks great however. no drips no errors. About the only thing I see that will need investigation is the oil pressure gauge which goes full scale when the key is turned on. I must have missed a wire on that one, but overall I'm thrilled with the birth. free cigars for everyone !!

Now I want to make a couple small changes in the engine bay so I'll have room for an air cleaner box, which I'll fabricate, to hook up to the cold air intake. I'll need to relocate the surge tank and the evap canister to do that but heck, what else do I have to do today.

Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #346, 09-03-2005 03:19 PM
      Congrats!

about the oil pressure sender. are you using the one that came with it? I know that the one on the Aurora is a two part switch, one part lets the fuel pump run and it is either on or off. the other two pins are for a gauge and the resistance changes with oil pressure changes. I was under the impression that the oil pressure sender on the caddy (the one on the oil filter adaptor) was either on or off. I am not sure how they got the pressure reading... ? you may end up using an Aurora version.

Russ544 MSG #347, 09-03-2005 09:55 PM
      I'm using the stock 88 Fiero unit that was on the car before (and worked fine) so it must be a wireing issue that I overlooked. The Fiero unit works like the aurora unit you discribe, and I thought I had it wired to function the same way to back up the fuel pump circut, but somehow my plan apparantly went astray .
I gota say.... this Holly system is amazing in the tunability it allows. it's really a trip to watch the various parameters in real time and alter various fuel and timing to dial it in. I think my carb and distributor days really are over.
tomorrow we go for a short test drive
BTW: this is the first Northstar I've ever heard run and I'm here to tell ya these babys sound wicked mean and nasty. can't wait to drive the beast.

If I don't get my home computer back Monday or tues I'm buying a new one. I could use a new one for a backup anyway, and I've got some pics to share.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-03-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #348, 09-04-2005 06:25 PM
      Let's give backup computer #2 a shot and see if pics actually show up

As I mentioned the other day I spent a full day building a new dogbone system for this project....... and I think it came out pretty well.
I started with a 4 cyl dogbone that was cut in half and shaped to slide inside, and be bolted to, a new arm fabricated from 1" square stock. The front end pivots on 3/4" nylon bushings pressed in to the bone and ride on a machined pin which gets bolted into the bridge mount.

The Fiero dogbone mount was modified by using the old right side as the new left side in order to place the new bone further to the right as far as possible.

To attach it to the engine another bit of fabrication took shape by building a bridge between existing bolt holes on the end of each cyl head.

and after a bit of my new favorite spray paint (made by Duplicolor for aluminum wheel refinishing ) it lookes like this:


[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-04-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #349, 09-04-2005 09:01 PM
      those pics went ok so here are a couple more to catch up with:

The oil cooler got it's ductwork to the side vent and the C-500 moved ..................

The wireing pass-throughs got relocated and fuel lines rearranged. the old fuel filter is still hanging in this photo but a new one replaces it in this same location even though the fuel lines are headed the other dirrection now. it was just easier to leave it here and run the hoses to it. also note the power brake vac line extention:

I love wire. we all need lots more wire in our lives


bryson MSG #350, 09-05-2005 12:24 AM
      As usual -- impressive work!! Seeing stuff like this makes me want to build up another car

Russ544 MSG #351, 09-05-2005 01:42 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bryson:

As usual -- impressive work!! Seeing stuff like this makes me want to build up another car

Thanks ! I can relate to your wanting to build a car again. I took almost 10 years off from building cars and felt that my hot rod days were behind me.......... then ~4 years ago I happened to see (my first) a Fiero for sale and the rest is history. I guess once it's in your blood you can never really quit.

Russ

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #352, 09-05-2005 03:39 PM
      Hey Russ,

it's all looking very cool!

I was wondering if you are using a narrow-band O2 sensor or a wide-band? I read through this thread but missed the info if it was already mentioned...


Russ544 MSG #353, 09-05-2005 06:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Hey Russ,

it's all looking very cool!

I was wondering if you are using a narrow-band O2 sensor or a wide-band? I read through this thread but missed the info if it was already mentioned...

Narrow band. I asked Alan to set it up as idiot proof as possible for me.... and it ran on the first attempt so it must be .
I just crawled out from under the car after re-installing the fuel tank for the second time. The hose clamp on the line between the fuel pump and hard-line didn't get tightened I guess, as it started leaking which dropped the fuel presure to ~10 lb . to add insult to injury, before I realised what had happened I pulled the presure regulator to check the screen and dropped the o-ring spacer down the gap under the manifold. I'm not having a good day .

Who was it that posted an improved base map for the Holley that they had worked out for the N* ??? with my home computer woos I've lost the info.
Thanks
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-05-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #354, 09-05-2005 07:16 PM
      ouch...

the gas tanks are a bit of a pita... I always seem to get to many vapors and have a duzzy of a headache the next day.

I can't remember right off hand who had a good base map for the holley/N*. I bought the narrow band system from Allen but then purchased a WBO2 wideband setup from techedge because I did not want to be guessing about the mixture. the downside is that the sensor I selected to use may not work with ceramic coated exhaust manifolds. It seems to have a history of failure due to high heat. but the narrow band sensor will be in the other bung to use as a back up.

as for the o-ring, it sounds like it might be time for a beer... I hope things go better soon.


Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #355, 09-05-2005 10:01 PM
      Looking great as usual Russ! Can hardly wait for you to get it on the road and hear the report of performance. I know you have to be more anxious than anybody though. Somehow I just know that it will more than match the good looks of the car.

That dog bone is a work of art!

Hope you get your computer woes straightened out soon, very little on a car can be as frustrating as problems with the "productivity tool".

Looking forward to continueing updates.

HAGO!

Russ544 MSG #356, 09-05-2005 10:06 PM
      Thanks cptsnoopy. by the time I left the shop today I at least got back to where I started off yesterday . got my screwups resolved and I'm back running again and ready to begin the fine tuning. It was a long journey however.

I'm a little confused on your project however. I thought you were having problems with the valve guides or?? and had been unable to get yours running yet....... or were you refering to another car that you used the wb O-2 sensor on?

Russ544 MSG #357, 09-05-2005 10:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sage:

Looking great as usual Russ! Can hardly wait for you to get it on the road and hear the report of performance. I know you have to be more anxious than anybody though. Somehow I just know that it will more than match the good looks of the car.

HAGO!

Well hello there Ted. long time no see. I was wondering where you'd been or if you were having more back problems or just working long hours (or knowing you both ) . Ya the car is finally getting the performance that the bodywork deserves. I haven't driven it yet as it wasn't running as good as I wanted it to in order to do that but the exhaust note when you blip the throttle is incredable. it's quite obvious that this thing is gona be one sick ride when the loud pedal goes down I may have found a car to actually improve on the sbc car in the fun factor departmant.

cheerio,

Russ

Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #358, 09-05-2005 11:11 PM
      Yep, I'm still here, just don't post much, I always seem to say the wrong thing to the wrong people at the wrong time! No matter how many hours I put in, it never seems to be enough. The back is semi-stable, but there is permanant nerve damage that affects the right leg and foot, but you know, some things you just learn to live with.

I've followed your progress from the beginning, and needless to say, am always impressed with your work.

Have also been following gusshotrods build thread too, I'd like to see what you guys could turn out with a combined effort.

I know it is going to meet or exceed your expectations, if for no other reason, cause YOU put it together.

Thanks for sharing your progress, and as I said earlier, I'm looking forward to seeing it on the road with a mile wide grin on the drivers face.

HAGO!

[This message has been edited by Sage (edited 09-06-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #359, 09-05-2005 11:19 PM
      Sage. I keep thinking I should go check out Gus' work for myself. he's about 150 miles north of me. he sems to do ok without my help however ha ha.

cptsnoopy. FOUND IT. I knew I'd seen improved N* Holley maps somewhere. the thing I'd forgotten was that it was on (pssst, keep it quiet) another forum. good for some light reading when you get a spare week or so. PS start on page 12 for the new maps.

http://www.fierodrivers.com/forum/index.php?topic=765.165

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #360, 09-06-2005 01:00 AM
      Thanks Russ,

I had not looked at aaron88's thread in quite some time. It has gone on and on...

that looks like some good info. I don't know if I can use it on the Aurora or not but I can compare.

I am pretty sure my engine has a problem on number 8 cylinder but I am not sure what it is. I am going to run it as is for awhile to see how bad the problem is. Since I have not finished the project I have not used the WBO2 wide band sensor yet. I bought it DIY and put it together after reading Ryan's WBO2 thread http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20050410-1-046503.html. It cost about $220 for the kit and the sensor if I remember right. It seemed like the one that Allen sold with the Holley was much more. I think Ryan has had pretty good luck with his. I also believe that he is using the stock exhaust manifolds. Shoot me a PM If your interested in borrowing it, it will be several more months before I get a chance to try it out on the 88 Fiero.

Russ544 MSG #361, 09-06-2005 09:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Thanks Russ,

I had not looked at aaron88's thread in quite some time. It has gone on and on...

that looks like some good info. I don't know if I can use it on the Aurora or not but I can compare.

I am pretty sure my engine has a problem on number 8 cylinder but I am not sure what it is. I am going to run it as is for awhile to see how bad the problem is. Since I have not finished the project I have not used the WBO2 wide band sensor yet. I bought it DIY and put it together after reading Ryan's WBO2 thread http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20050410-1-046503.html. It cost about $220 for the kit and the sensor if I remember right. It seemed like the one that Allen sold with the Holley was much more. I think Ryan has had pretty good luck with his. I also believe that he is using the stock exhaust manifolds. Shoot me a PM If your interested in borrowing it, it will be several more months before I get a chance to try it out on the 88 Fiero.

hey thanks for the offer on the WB. I'll keep that in mind. I have a lot to learn about computer controled tuning. it's a good thing winter is coming so I'll have time to devote to it . and btw I just happen to have a long block L37 that I picked up very cheep if you should find you need one

Russ

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #362, 09-06-2005 11:36 AM
      Ditto on the computer controlled tunning. I have not done any. with the wbo2 you get to see exactly what the a/f ratio is doing and if I remember Ryan's comments correctly you can use it with the holley as a wb sensor. after reading the holley instructions, it looked like it would be a bunch easier with the wb installed. i think you can use it to get a good base map setup and then you could use the narrow band. however, as stated above, it's all theory to me still.

if I ever get this body swap done i'll get to see if I need the L-37, thank you for the offer.


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #363, 09-06-2005 02:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
cptsnoopy. FOUND IT. I knew I'd seen improved N* Holley maps somewhere. the thing I'd forgotten was that it was on (pssst, keep it quiet) another forum. good for some light reading when you get a spare week or so. PS start on page 12 for the new maps.

http://www.fierodrivers.com/forum/index.php?topic=765.165

I believe that someone who isn't very popular here tried those maps and found them to be quite rich...

Russ544 MSG #364, 09-08-2005 10:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


I believe that someone who isn't very popular here tried those maps and found them to be quite rich...

I'm not sure who you're refering to but I'll compare them to my current base maps tomorrow. thanks for the heads up.

Russ544 MSG #365, 09-08-2005 11:00 PM
      I'm still trying to sort out my home computer fiasco, but in doing so I ran across this photo of my muffler setup installed in the car. above them you can see the grid that I welded in just below the new floor of the trunk to support the double sided foil backed insulation laying on top of it.. a sheet of aluminum is pop riveted on above the insulation and a layer of jute will lay on top of that under the carpet. hopefully that will lessen the heat that has gotten into the trunk and dried up and wrinkled the carpet on my sbc car.

Russ

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #366, 09-09-2005 11:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
I'm not sure who you're refering to but I'll compare them to my current base maps tomorrow. thanks for the heads up.

Do the initials JM mean anything to you?

Russ544 MSG #367, 09-10-2005 08:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Do the initials JM mean anything to you?

O boy do they. Jonie Mcconnel. she was a real hottie when we were in high school. Her and I in the rear of a 63 Vette splitwindow is etched in my mind forever

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-11-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #368, 09-11-2005 08:54 PM
      A lazy Sunday. I installed a tach today that Archie recalibrated for me for the v-8, did some testing on the oil presure guage and discovered that my wiring is fine but the sensor is bad (strange as it worked with the previous engine), and built a vent for the center console where the Holley computer now resides.
For the vent I robbed an upper dash vent from a parts Fiero and sectioned it down to about 9". The trick in butt welding material this thin is to clamp it down on a piece of steel so it won't burn through. delicate work but actually not that hard. those are studs on each end which were also welded on to the frame.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-11-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #369, 09-12-2005 12:22 AM
      looks great! does the holley run that hot?


Russ544 MSG #370, 09-12-2005 10:01 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

looks great! does the holley run that hot?

No. actually it doesn't feel abnormally hot to the touch. but all electronic gizmos will last longer the cooler they are........ and you know how I like cool things



Russ544 MSG #371, 09-15-2005 11:29 PM
      Well it's been an educational week or 10 days in the land of N. I've learned a few hard lessons in EFI that bear repeating. first and foremost is to never assume that because a test light lights, that it means it's a good circut. use your VOM and pay attention to values. In my case I was having fits with a totally erractic idle condition that would come and go. sometimes the thing would simply go bizerk and no amount of coaxing would bring the "idle" down below ~2500 rpm. I knew there wasn't a vacuum leak as when I seated the IAC and unplugged it it was easy to get the thing to chug along at 600 rpm or so by turning out the throttle plate screw.... plug the IAC in again and the idle would climb back up with periodic sudden drops back to a semi normal idle speed..... then other times the thing would idle pretty well... After several frustrating hours of testing circuts and checking sensors, I was about convinced that the ECU was bad. I called CHRF and spoke with Alan for a half hour or so and we walked through all the maps and engine parameters. he said he thought it was a voltage problem so I agreed to check it just one more time before returning the unit for inspection. I checked the switched B+ to the ecu with the VOM instead of a test light and noticed it was almost 1/2 volt lower than the current B+ at the battery. it didn't take much backtracking to locate the problem as the ignition switch itself. it had worked fine for the previous engine with HEI distributor, but the efi wants to see near perfect connections or it gets confused. the new switch is now installed and the IAC seems to be controlling the idle speed just like it should. I still need to work on the fuel maps in that area, but it's obvious that the IAC is now trying to control the rpms where before it was totally spastic.
Maybe tomorrow I can get to the task of fine tuning the maps in earnest. if things do go well I might even get that much anticipated test drive

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-16-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #372, 09-16-2005 10:34 PM
      THE TEST DRIVE:

It definitely has potential . I warmed up the car today until it went closed loop. shut it off... started it again.... revved er up. the idle problem seems to be gone for good. if anything it's idling a tad slow, but at least the IAC is taking charge now in a positive way. It sounded so much better that I just optimistically headed down the road to my business ~3 miles away. I had the laptop on the seat, but it's pretty hard to read at that angle and distance, and stay between the lines at the same time, so I just paid attention to my seat-of- the-pants computer instead. As everyone else who's using the Holley computer has observed as well, the "base" tune leaves something to be desired. I have no clue as to why this is, as it seems like a stock engine would be easy enough to provide spot on base maps for, but what do I know. regardless..... I saw a need to build a stand for my laptop so I could monitor the system easier for tuning, so I spent a couple hours building that and still got in a 1/2 hour or so of tuning time before the rains came in earnest and the dinner bell began to ring. you might also notice that I mounted the computer plug in the location of the Fiero cig lighter for easy attachment. The computer stand has two wide feet that sit one on the seat and one on the floor for stability wile driving.


As delivered, most of the stock fuel map is lean to the point of hesitation and backfiring under acceleration at certain rpms. the nice part is that this system shows you what adjustment is needed and makes it easy to do. It doesn't take long to get pretty quick at changing the correct regions of the fuel grid. The tuning portion of this project is likely to still take a fair bit of time to perfect however, as I still have a lot to learn about the finer points, but it's certainly drivable now and like I said, it has plenty of potential. the torque is obviously there, and the drivability just needs some tweaking to be really nice.With the story line turning to computer issues lately I've almost forgotten to report on the clutch and shifting. both work excellent! The clutch is nice and firm without being harsh or chattery like the Spec unit was. the shifting is a little stiffer than stock, most likely due to the sharper bends in the shift cables, but shifting is very smooth and positive. the muffler choice (Dynomax super turbo) was fantastic as well. a nice mellow yet throaty sound. Maybe I'll put the radio back in now

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-16-2005).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #373, 09-17-2005 03:20 PM
      Great to hear that it's running.

Do you have the pro software upgrade for the Holley? That can handle a wide band O2.

Ain't tuning fun?


Russ544 MSG #374, 09-17-2005 11:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Great to hear that it's running.

Do you have the pro software upgrade for the Holley? That can handle a wide band O2.

Ain't tuning fun?

Thanks Will. yes it is rewarding to finally hear it run and know that it actually does . Yes I got the Pro software that can use the wideband O-2 sensor, but to be honest I haven't even looked at the instructions to see why that would be such a benifit..... I guess I should do that hu. ha ha.
Is tuning fun?????? well..... I'm not too sure about that just yet. wires and sensors aren't really what turn my crank, but I'm trying to get a little more up to date. I sure do see the advantages of EFI, but it's still hard for me to change old ways.
============

I felt back in my element today fabricating. I needed a break from wires and keyboards for a wile, and wanted to relocate a couple items to make some room for a cold air/filter box anyway, so out came the saws-all and welder....... ahhhhhhhh... I feel much better already .
Room in the engine bay was used up much quicker than I anticipated during this swap, and when all was said and done there wasn't sufficient room left over for the cold air box that I had planned, to attach to the IMSAs side vents, so a few things had to be re-located. The surge tank just barely fits in it's new location and carefull planning was needed to insure that nothing hit. It's hard to see in this pic but the evap canister is now attached to the left side of the drivers side decklid hinge support. this has opened up a pretty good hole where I should be able to fabricate a fiberglass enclosure for a flat rectangular air filter and have the cold air vent attached to the bottom and flex hose up top joining up with the throttle body. the box itself is an ambitious project, but if it comes out the way I envision it, it should be worth the effort.




Russ544 MSG #375, 09-18-2005 11:19 PM
      After moving the surge tank and evap canister I noticed there was still about 5 square inches of unused space in the engine bay (other than the future home of the cold air box) so of course that space had to be filled right away . I noticed during initial testing that the single dogbone still allowed a bit more movement than desired, so a second one in the "spare" space fit into the plan nicely. after several failed templates I came up with a design that met my requirements, and proceeded to create it in steel. the rubber portion is the other end of the 4 banger unit that I used to make the right side dogbone.

after a bit of spit and polish, and the traditional metallic finish, it was bolted in place to the left end of the rear cyl head.

and the surge tank re-installed

I believe all the engine compartment space is properly filled to capacity now

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-19-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #376, 09-20-2005 06:01 AM
      Would you suggest using a relay for the switched B+ ?

When you get time read the section on wbo2 tuning. it gives the impression that you tell the Holley what a/f ratio you want and it does it for you using the wbo2 as a reference. it's been awhile since I read the material but I think that is what it implied.

Russ544 MSG #377, 09-20-2005 10:08 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Would you suggest using a relay for the switched B+ ?

When you get time read the section on wbo2 tuning. it gives the impression that you tell the Holley what a/f ratio you want and it does it for you using the wbo2 as a reference. it's been awhile since I read the material but I think that is what it implied.

No I don't see any need for a relay. I don't know the current draw of the Holly but it would be light. After studying the Fiero wireing diagram I ended up using the existing wire intended to power the Fiero ECM btw. it's pink with black stripe and can be redily accessed at the C-200 plug (the black/white double multi-plug under the rear of the console) by using this wire to feed the Holly ecm, it goes through the Fiero ECM fuse, but there are no other circuts tied to this one so it's clean power.

I'll read that O-2 info tonight when I get home from the salt mine.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-20-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #378, 09-20-2005 11:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


When you get time read the section on wbo2 tuning. it gives the impression that you tell the Holley what a/f ratio you want and it does it for you using the wbo2 as a reference. it's been awhile since I read the material but I think that is what it implied.

OK.. I just read the section on using the wb O-2, but I still fail to see the huge advantage. I'm sure I'm missing something however as more knowledgeable folks than I seem to think it's the cats meow for tuning. The thing I'm seeing is that yes the wb will tell you what the actual a/f ratio is at the moment..... but who tells it what that a/f ratio should be?? you still need a base map to tell the computer what a/f ratio to set under a multitude of load, rpm, temp levels, etc., so if the supplied base map was spot on,,, great.... otherwise you end up doing basicly the same thing as you would with a narrow band O-2 in working out the base map. the supplied base map for the n/b isn't that hot so I see no reason to believe that the w/b setup would require any less tweaking. As far as the wb adjusting the setting for you... yes it does..... but so does the narrow band. the only difference is that the nb references lean or rich around a 14.7:1 ratio wile the wb tells you what that rich or lean condition actually measures in terms of a/f ratio. huummmmm.
somewhere out there some tallented efi wiz has to have worked out a high quality base map for the N* that he'd share with us so we could save some brain cells for more important stuff like..... like............... well you know .


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #379, 09-21-2005 01:30 AM
      Maybe ryan.hess will be able to help since he was using both the nb and then the wb with the holley to tune his N*/auto. He was having issues with the idle mixture if I remember right and the wb helped him fix that where the nb was not working out. My thought is that if you still have to set the values yourself it is sooo much more helpful to know how far from your desired point you are compared to just knowing that you are plus or minus the value you need with no real info on how much. I'll go over the book again and see if there is anything more helpful to offer. I may get lucky sometime this year and have to do a little tuning myself.


THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #380, 09-21-2005 01:24 PM
      11.8 ? I think...


JG


Russ544 MSG #381, 09-23-2005 07:44 PM
      seconds? ya I agree .

I went for a short drive today down to the wreaking yard where I bought the N*. they were blown away to say the least, but have you ever noticed how there's always one dufas in a crowd that opines "they make a kit for that don't they?" . I have come up with a response that seems to shut them up however: "ya .... I made it".

As you can see I spent the day putting things back together and making a support for the decklid out of a front lid support. I've ordered some fiberglass and resin to build the air box with but it hasn't arrived yet.
The tuning is getting a lot better, but I need to devote more time to that soon. even in it's present state of tune this thing is really a blast to drive !! It makes some very cool noises

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-23-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #382, 09-23-2005 09:10 PM
      can i buy the kit?


Russ544 MSG #383, 09-23-2005 10:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

can i buy the kit?

Sure, no problem............. I'll start work on it as soon as I receive your non-refundable deposit of $20,000.oo , and bill you for the balance when it's done.

Did you realise how involved the N* swap was when you started on yours? how come nobody told me LOL.
worth every minute however. I'm very happy with mine and it was a labor of love.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-23-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #384, 09-24-2005 01:09 AM
      I did not have any idea what I was getting into and it's not nearly what you have done. Now that I have a better idea the 20k would be worth one of your cars. But then it has been a lot of fun and a huge learning process.


Russ544 MSG #385, 09-24-2005 03:32 PM
      I had to think a wile, but I finally found another excuse not to do keyboard tuning today...... I had to change the oil and that meant I had to make an easier way to do that than by dripping 7 1/2 qt of oil down that puny little pvc fitting with it's restrictor baffle and all.

lesse.... I need to wash it now, and then I need to ......

Russ544 MSG #386, 09-24-2005 08:58 PM
      When I first ordered the Holly system I remember Alan rattling off a bunch of information which I was destined to forget by the time I needed it. one of those tidbits of wisdom was what temp he felt the N* should run at and a temp never to excede. does anyone else remember these items better than I do?
It's not running what I concider hot (seems to always be 212 - 218) but the base map is set up for the fan to turn on at 200 (runs all the time after warm up) so I was curious why he set it that way. I always feel guilty calling and interrupting Alan.

tia,
Russ


Russ544 MSG #387, 09-25-2005 08:36 PM
      After making a device to hold the clutch slave pushrod in position wile the slave is removed for bleeding (due to the angle my modified bracket created) I had run out of fabrication projects so I had no other project to do except.................... tuning . Actually I'm warming up to it by now. mostly due to the fact that I'm learning how to do it and finally seeing progress. In fact today saw some major progress. the breakthrough came when I realized how much more effective it is to modify the fuel input by using the fuel map graph:


rather than the fuel map itself:

It's hard to see from my poor pics of the owners manual, but for the aspiring Holly tuner the fuel map contains 256 "cells" at each intersection of the RPMs along the bottom of the grid and the MAP sensor input on the left (which signifies the amount of load placed on the engine at the time). Where the engine is running at any given moment is hilighted in a cell. the small scale just above the grid tells you if the O-2 sensor is adding fuel or taking it away in its attempt to maintain a 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio. if it shows too lean you need to raise the number in that cell of the fuel grid. Now this is all happening in real time, so naturally the cells are lighting up like 4th street on Christmas eve., so keeping track of them and remembering what needs to be richer and what needs to be leaner when you pull over to the side of the road can be a challenge to say the least. A knowledgeable co-pilot would be a help, but those are hard to come by .
I floundered around trying to get this thing to run with some degree of smoothness over several sessions without much success until I discovered THE GRID . I'd driven around watching the fuel map for long enough that I pretty much knew what general areas of the map were lean, but jugling the numbers around and keeping a smooth transition over the whole map proved too challenging for me so when I got home I pulled up the grid and started tweeking. A laptop computer mouse is dificult and slow to manuver around the fuel map, but the grid only requires the use of the arrow keys along with shift and cntrl. use the arroqw key to get to the point you want to change, hold down the shift key wile using the up or down arrow to raise that cell one point or hold the cntrl key and use the up or down arrow to move five points. it's SO much easier to creat a smooth map when you have a clear picture of the whole thing that my first attempt proved to be a HUGE improvement in the way the car drives.
by the way Will, I compared the map I'm working on with the map I mentioned the other day and it's actually fairly close to mine. his may be a tad richer in the upper rpm/load ranges, but not by much, and I'm not done with mine yet. As I said in the beginning.... the supplied maps are way too lean in the lower and mid range especially. to the point of being hard to even drive without looking like a teenage daughters first day with a clutch.
Life is always better when you're making progress.... life is good today.

Russ


Russ544 MSG #388, 09-25-2005 11:32 PM
      O by the way cptsnoopy and others using the Holly computer. I've revised my assessment of the heat that the unit puts out. after a couple hours of tuning today I did notice that the heat can easily be felt by placing my hand over the vent I made in the top of the console last week, so I highly recomend that if you put the Holly in the stock Fiero location, by all means do creat ventilation for it.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #389, 09-25-2005 11:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

O by the way cptsnoopy and others using the Holly computer. I've revised my assessment of the heat that the unit puts out. after a couple hours of tuning today I did notice that the heat can easily be felt by placing my hand over the vent I made in the top of the console last week, so I highly recomend that if you put the Holly in the stock Fiero location, by all means do creat ventilation for it.


Thanks for the info. I read through the wb tuning pages and I am hoping that it will help. I will consider running a computer fan mounted to the heat sink and or making a vent like yours.


Russ544 MSG #390, 09-26-2005 10:07 AM
      I was thinking of adding a computer fan myself. do they make those that run on 12 v dc?

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #391, 09-26-2005 11:59 AM
      almost all computer fans run 12VDC


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #392, 09-26-2005 12:03 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

When I first ordered the Holly system I remember Alan rattling off a bunch of information which I was destined to forget by the time I needed it. one of those tidbits of wisdom was what temp he felt the N* should run at and a temp never to excede. does anyone else remember these items better than I do?
It's not running what I concider hot (seems to always be 212 - 218) but the base map is set up for the fan to turn on at 200 (runs all the time after warm up) so I was curious why he set it that way. I always feel guilty calling and interrupting Alan.

tia,
Russ

Heat is a Northstar's friend. They like run warmer than most engines. That's ok, because it makes them more efficient than they would be cold. Aluminum also needs to be thoroughly up to temp because of its expansion properties.
GM has validated the engines with 250 degree coolant temps and 300 degree oil temps.


 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
so keeping track of them and remembering what needs to be richer and what needs to be leaner when you pull over to the side of the road can be a challenge to say the least. A knowledgeable co-pilot would be a help, but those are hard to come by .

Does it have a data-logging feature (it should)? That's a copilot in a box.

Russ544 MSG #393, 09-26-2005 08:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Does it have a data-logging feature (it should)? That's a copilot in a box.

I did decide to call Alan about the temp deal today and was able to catch him when he wasn't too busy. he was in a good mood because he just sold a blown N* that he had built for someone else and that deal didn't work out.
anyway... he said he likes to see these (na) motors run 200 - 210 most of the time and noted that they make more hp at 210. he recomended max temp at idle is 235. Wile at the auto parts store today I inquired about a thermostat and they said the only listing was for a 180* which I thought odd.

Yes the Holly has datalogging capabilitys. and that's next on my list of things to study up on. I feel that I have the fuel map pretty close now with only a couple small areas that indicate any need for fine tuning. those areas are so much less obvious wile driving that the datalogger should be a big help in locating them.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-26-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #394, 09-27-2005 11:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Maybe ryan.hess will be able to help since he was using both the nb and then the wb with the holley to tune his N*/auto. He was having issues with the idle mixture if I remember right and the wb helped him fix that where the nb was not working out. My thought is that if you still have to set the values yourself it is sooo much more helpful to know how far from your desired point you are compared to just knowing that you are plus or minus the value you need with no real info on how much. I'll go over the book again and see if there is anything more helpful to offer. I may get lucky sometime this year and have to do a little tuning myself.

but actuall the NB O-2 sensor does tell you "how much" to lean or rich you are. by telling you how much fuel is being added or taken away from the base map (by keeping an eye on the compensation graph) you'll know how far off it is at that point.

RC

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-28-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #395, 09-28-2005 05:29 AM
      I agree that is a good indicator. Since I don't have any time tuning one of these things I don't really have a clue... The only thing I know for sure is that you will know what your a/f with the wb. It will also help in the areas that require something other than 14.7/1. That's all assuming that the wb works like it should. It sounds like data logging will be very useful.


Russ544 MSG #396, 09-28-2005 10:26 AM
      oops

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-28-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #397, 10-01-2005 08:46 PM
      The fiberglass and resin came in just in time for the weekend so work began on the cold air box today. the method of construction is the same as used on the 4.3 box discussed a few chapters back, so I won't repeat the details, but basicly aluminum sheet, tinfoil, duct tape, margarine containers and whatever else I could find was used as mold material.
the lower 1/2 of the box, shown below, contains the bulk of the filter, which is ~ 8" x 10" x 1 1/4" . the IMSA L side vent will attach to the opening in the front lower corner. the plate sitting on the filter gets glassed into the slot cut in the side of the box to provide a baffle to the incoming air so it doesn't blast dirrectly on the filter media. hopefully it will also help muffle the IAC hiss.
When this is finished the filter shown will be replaced with a K&N unit, but at near $50.oo I didn't want to use that one for mockup.


I have several components of the top 1/2 of the box curing now, and should get that part finished up tomorrow

this is where it will mount when finished.




Russ544 MSG #398, 10-03-2005 08:19 PM
      I didn't get quite as much done Sunday as I'd hoped, but I did finish the vast majority of the glass work the return on the upper portion fought me a bit, but I seem to have won in the end.


I expect it to look prettier when the "bodywork" is done and it's painted




bryson MSG #399, 10-04-2005 01:57 PM
      What are you using to secure the two halves together? I imagine you have something in mind that will look good and allow easy access to the filter if you need to change it. Inquiring minds want to know!
--Bryson



Russ544 MSG #400, 10-04-2005 08:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bryson:

What are you using to secure the two halves together? I imagine you have something in mind that will look good and allow easy access to the filter if you need to change it. Inquiring minds want to know!
--Bryson

I've played around with a couple different ideas actually. at first I was thinking of just using overcenter spring clips on each side, but then I realised I wouldn't have the room, with the box installed, to get to the bails. I concidered screws but... na... too ugly and un-trick. so I spent an hour or so bending up stiff boden cable inner wire the other day and came up with an idea for some spring loaded hooks that I like pretty well................ but you'll have to wait until I find the proper size coil spring to use with it and a couple other little details. I'll have it worked out by the weekend for sure.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-04-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #401, 10-06-2005 08:51 PM
      I had a little spare time at "work" today so I did some finish work on the air box and installed the retainers.

and a closeup of the retainers:

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-06-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #402, 10-06-2005 10:30 PM
      Another Wow! from the gallery!


Russ544 MSG #403, 10-07-2005 10:11 PM
      and the finished product :


As you can see here, I was able to leave some room for hot air extraction over the air box. The IMSA right side vent, which feeds the oil cooler, supplies the bulk of the incoming air for cooling the engine bay, but it still needs somewhere to exit, on both sides of the car, to carry that heat away.

The day wasn't all good however. during a recent test drive I felt a "pop" in the clutch pedal and now the clutch only disengages when mashed to the floor. shifting is difficult as well. I strongly suspect a broken finger on the pressure plate or a broken throwout fork. I knew better than to accept the general concensus of "all the chev/isuzu setups are that way to and they don't have any problems". With the smaller diameter of the throwout bearing used on the Isuzu, it ends up contacting the pressure plate fingers right out on their tips. I didn't like it then,.... and I sure don't like it now . I anticipated a final teardown, to take care of those little odds and ends that need refinement after you do a build this complex, but I'd really hoped to drive the thing more than 50 miles before doing so. summer will be a memory in just a couple more weeks, and I don't drive my toys in the winter. but O-well....... we live for this stuff.... right??

gone fishing,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-08-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #404, 10-09-2005 10:57 PM
      No work on the IMSA today. Sometimes I just need to get away from it all for my brain to refresh itself, and so far I haven't found a better way to get any farther away from it all than this

Now that my brain is working again I think I'm seeing a potential solution to the non-releasing clutch issue that appears to be one of those "why didn't I think of that sooner" ideas. I won't have time to test my theory until next weekend, but I'm excited to share some (hopefully) good results at that time.
To backtrack a bit, I used a bore scope to peek up inside the clutch and I can't see any broken fingers or fork, but it is hard to see well up there even with the scope. so based on the assumption that the clutch itself is ok, I'm working up a potential solution to get more travel on the clutch fork without affecting the static height of the pedal. I'll post my progress as always .

Cheers,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-09-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #405, 10-10-2005 01:34 AM
      are you launching in a clear area or a ski slope? I never tried the hang-gliding but I hear is is very addictive too!


Russ544 MSG #406, 10-10-2005 10:32 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

are you launching in a clear area or a ski slope? I never tried the hang-gliding but I hear is is very addictive too!

Yes it is addictive. I've been an addict for about 14 years now. we flew at Woodrat Mtn. yesterday which is possibly the only mountain in the world has been modified specifically for hang gliding. the top 300 feet has been blasted away as a rock quary and when they finished up that operation they asked our club how we wanted it to look when they left. they did lots of work for us to sculpt two nice launches. the area below launch was logged at the same time. you can barely make out over the ridge in the distance, the town of Medford, Oregon. I've been near 10,ooo feet (take off is 3800) and stayed aloft for over 3 1/2 hours at this site before.
There is a large club in Phonix also. if you'd like I can get you some contacts there to learn

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-10-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #407, 10-12-2005 09:45 PM
      Concerning the clutch pedal modification I mentioned the other day....
My goal was to increase the slave travel wile maintaining the pedal height at rest.
At first glance it appears to be a simple matter to move the MC pivot pin on the clutch pedal towards the pedal pad in order to lengthen the stroke of the master cyl and therefore the slave. I've done this, and it does work.... but there is an unexpected limitation, and that limitation is that the total length of the piston travel available in the master cylinder is just about used up even in stock configuration. the slave cyl has plenty of travel to utilize, but with the pedal at rest the master cyl piston is resting on the rear snap ring and with the stock pedal buried in the carpet there's less than 3/8" more piston travel before it bottoms in the cyl. one convenient part of the pedal modification I've done is that the master cyl rod eye is offset by 1/4", as shown below, and points up when correctly mounted to a stock pedal. so by simply flipping the rod over the new pedal pin can be moved 1/2" down and still retain alignment of the rod in the master cylinder.
I slipped the modified pedal in the car after work this evening for a test and I see about 1/4" more travel on the slave rod now. the thing is that the master cylinder is bottomed out before the pedal hits the carpet so I'm not sure if this is going to harm the MC. it can't be a good thing however.
The next time I get a few minutes I'll have to check and see if the first gen master has more travel than the late style (which I'm currently using). the concept has merit for sure, but I guess it still has a few bugs to work out.




avengador1 (avengador1@aol.com) MSG #408, 10-13-2005 08:59 AM
      Never mind, you have it right.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 10-13-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #409, 10-13-2005 01:43 PM
      I wonder if there is a master cylinder with a slightly larger bore? sigh, it never ends...

I would love to learn how to hang glide but then I would have to sell my cars and motorcycle to get the lastest hang glider!

I have not been up in a sailplane in over three years. I keep telling myself that I will go back out and get current again, but the opportunity has not come along in a while.


Russ544 MSG #410, 10-14-2005 08:53 PM
      well piss......... I guess it's not totally unexpected, but I've said "uncle" and began preparation to pull the motor out again. I've got every ounce of travel I can get out of the master cyl now but still no clean clutch release and I've tried everything I can think of on the outside so.....
In the end it will be a good thing as I'll be able to clean up a couple little details that I missed the first time around.
everything is ready on the top side to drop the engine, so tomorrow I'll go underneath and do the deed.


JazzMan (jazzman@fierocentral.com) MSG #411, 10-14-2005 09:40 PM
      .

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 04-14-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #412, 10-14-2005 10:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JazzMan:

I remember seeing a writup somewhere about using a Range Rover master, it had a larger bore and the same mounting flange as the Fiero (both being made by Lucas Girling), with maybe the only modification being an adapter for the clutch hydraulic fitting.

JazzMan

I currently have 1 1/8" of travel at the slave cyl., and that should be plenty to release the clutch, so there must be an internal problem with the clutch itself. regardless of that however, I will do some research on the range rover unit as it could be a good alternative for my other projects if not this one. it's not like the Fiero hyd clutch system is a trouble free unit afterall.

Cheers,
Russ


fieroguru MSG #413, 10-15-2005 03:20 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
I currently have 1 1/8" of travel at the slave cyl., and that should be plenty to release the clutch, so there must be an internal problem with the clutch itself. regardless of that however, I will do some research on the range rover unit as it could be a good alternative for my other projects if not this one. it's not like the Fiero hyd clutch system is a trouble free unit afterall.

Cheers,
Russ


You can use a Wilwood master. They are cheaper than stock Fiero clutch masters and can be had in 3/4", 7/8" and 1" bores. To mount you just need a 1/4" steel plate to change the bolt patern, clearance the lower bolt flange on the Wilwood to clear the lower firewall bolt and cut/bend the clutch line to the new location.

I am runing a 7/8" with a hydraulic throw out bearing and had to destroke the clutch pedal travel at least an inch. The 3/4" one would be a good place to start.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 10-15-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #414, 10-15-2005 05:38 PM
      The motor is sitting on one bench and the trans on another, with pieces scattered in between. Certainly not what I expected to find, but I believe I did find the problem. 4 of the 6 pressure plate bolts were backed out 1/2 - 3/4 turn each. I admit to getting forgetfull, but I really can't see myself missing this one as I always pay special attention to these and use the torque wrench on both the flywheel and pressure plate bolts. I can't tell for sure if they had locktight, but I suspect not. needless to say thay have red locktight on them now and are torqqued to 38 ft lb (arp).
time now to do some detail work and re-assemble.

Russ

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #415, 10-15-2005 06:44 PM
      does this mean that the clutch fingers and throwout bearing looked fine?

Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #416, 10-15-2005 06:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

The motor is sitting on one bench and the trans on another, with pieces scattered in between. Certainly not what I expected to find, but I believe I did find the problem. 4 of the 6 pressure plate bolts were backed out 1/2 - 3/4 turn each. I admit to getting forgetfull, but I really can't see myself missing this one as I always pay special attention to these and use the torque wrench on both the flywheel and pressure plate bolts. I can't tell for sure if they had locktight, but I suspect not. needless to say thay have red locktight on them now and are torqqued to 38 ft lb (arp).
time now to do some detail work and re-assemble.

Russ

That's exactly what happened to me!! I ended up putting a smaller bore slave cylinder on there to get enough travel to release it (used an Isuzu slave on with a Getrag arm), until I pulled the motor for a rebuild and saw what happened.
Sorry I didn't catch this thread earlier, I was going to post about checking the bolts (you can tighten them through the starter hole with an offset wrench I think) until I saw you already pulled it out..
Oh well. . there's always stuff to do when the motor is out ;-)



Russ544 MSG #417, 10-15-2005 09:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

does this mean that the clutch fingers and throwout bearing looked fine?

Yaa yaa yaaaaa. there's a heckler in every crowd.

I tried to get a pic of the clutch fingers but I couldn't get the wear patter to show up at all. it's not as bad as I expected, but the contact patch is still closer to the tip than I would like it to be................. but then I'm kinda picky about those kinda things I guess

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-15-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #418, 10-15-2005 09:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:


That's exactly what happened to me!! I ended up putting a smaller bore slave cylinder on there to get enough travel to release it (used an Isuzu slave on with a Getrag arm), until I pulled the motor for a rebuild and saw what happened.
Sorry I didn't catch this thread earlier, I was going to post about checking the bolts (you can tighten them through the starter hole with an offset wrench I think) until I saw you already pulled it out..
Oh well. . there's always stuff to do when the motor is out ;-)


As I was reassembling things today I looked at the possibility of.... "could I of tightened that with the engine in the car?" I really don't think I'd want to try. the ex manifold is in front of the starter hole as well as several other nearby obsticals. It would take a custom wrench and a lot of patience........ I have a lot of stuff to do when the motor is out anyway.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #419, 10-15-2005 10:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
Yaa yaa yaaaaa. there's a heckler in every crowd.

That was not my intent

I was just trying to gleen info for what I should look for when I dig my clutch out of the pile and start looking at how the fingers mate up with the throwout bearing that spec sold me...



Russ544 MSG #420, 10-15-2005 11:10 PM
      [QUOTE]Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Russ544:
Yaa yaa yaaaaa. there's a heckler in every crowd.

That was not my intent

I was just trying to gleen info for what I should look for when I dig my clutch out of the pile and start looking at how the fingers mate up with the throwout bearing that spec sold me...


LOL. no no... just my weird sence of humor.............no worries mate.

I have a Spec III in the 4.3 but I don't recall if the fingers are straight or crowned like this Mcloud unit in the N*. regardless, the Spec in my 4.3 is also mated to an Isuzu and works well enough except for the chatter on initial engagement. I guess the newer III+ is better in that regard. which version do you have? The Mcloud is really nice on engagement. very firm but no chatter at all and seems to hold the power without effort. Have you been working on your N* again or still working on the fastback?

Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #421, 10-16-2005 10:47 AM
      I think I have the stage III-hk (whatever that means) It is supposed to hold well but be more street friendly than the original stage III. I got the 86 engine in and running again, along with the notchie rear wiring harness. it is just waiting for the notchie body off the 88. we are starting phoenix to hawaii flights in december so i had to stop working on the cars for a month to study for the over-water training (and the yearly recurrency check) I should be back to work on the cars in early november.

Russ544 MSG #422, 10-16-2005 02:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I think I have the stage III-hk (whatever that means) It is supposed to hold well but be more street friendly than the original stage III. I got the 86 engine in and running again, along with the notchie rear wiring harness. it is just waiting for the notchie body off the 88. we are starting phoenix to hawaii flights in december so i had to stop working on the cars for a month to study for the over-water training (and the yearly recurrency check) I should be back to work on the cars in early november.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh. and there-in lies the secret of the stagename "cptsnoopy".
No sweet on the annual testing thing. just remember.... "airspeed, altitude, and brains.... any two of these will keep you alive". Are you hauling bodies or freight? A buddy of mine flys for Fed-X.
The Spec III-hk is the good one. that should work quite well for you.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-16-2005).]

crzyone (crzyone@cablerocket.com) MSG #423, 10-16-2005 05:20 PM
      That airbox looks great man. Looks like it came from factory. I think I'll just use a mandrel bent pipe attached to a K&N in the fender.

Russ544 MSG #424, 10-16-2005 05:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by crzyone:

That airbox looks great man. Looks like it came from factory. I think I'll just use a mandrel bent pipe attached to a K&N in the fender.

I had a K&N stuck on the TB adaptor wile I was building the airbox. wanta buy it? used about 2 hours run time. summit KNN-rc-4400 cost me 43.oo . will sell it for 30.oo shipped. BTW. did you get your problem with the shifter and cables straightened out with M? If not I may have a temporary solution to offer you. let me know.

Russ544 MSG #425, 10-16-2005 10:13 PM
      Le'see... late Friday night I pull the IMSA into the garage and prepare to: pull N*, separate the trans, repr clutch, reassemble, install full poly kit, remove 8-10 unneeded factory brackets from the engine bay, fab new mount for fuel pump solenoid and ecm fuse, reroute vapor canister hard line, repaint engine bay, reinstall engine/trans, test drive at 6:30 pm Sunday. Wheeew..... that was a friggen marathon! I need to go back to work to relax


I have plenty of pedal now . in fact the clutch disengages at about the 1/2 way point in it's travel. I may want to reinstall the stock pedal configuration again to lower the disengagement point a bit. and once that's done it should be time to move forward for a change. I bought a fan to install in the console to cool the ecm, and I still need to redo the front suspension so it can be properly aligned and install poly, then there's always more fine tuning of the computer system to entertain myself .

time for a burger and beer,,,, lots of beer,
Cheers,
Russ


crzyone (crzyone@cablerocket.com) MSG #426, 10-16-2005 11:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


I had a K&N stuck on the TB adaptor wile I was building the airbox. wanta buy it? used about 2 hours run time. summit KNN-rc-4400 cost me 43.oo . will sell it for 30.oo shipped. BTW. did you get your problem with the shifter and cables straightened out with M? If not I may have a temporary solution to offer you. let me know.


How big is the inlet? If its the same size as the TB I'll definitly buy it. Matt contacted me, things look like they are working out, thanks for the offer!

Levi



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #427, 10-16-2005 11:43 PM
      wow, an impressive amount of work for a weekend! How far along in the tuning deparment do you feel you are? Are you having any heating problems? Is the street drivablility good?

not a captain at this airline, that was two companies ago. I was hauling pax then. the next company was freight. this company is pax again. Fed-ex would be the place to work. I guess I better keep an eye on the airspeed and altitude...


Russ544 MSG #428, 10-17-2005 12:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by crzyone:

How big is the inlet? If its the same size as the TB I'll definitly buy it. Matt contacted me, things look like they are working out, thanks for the offer!

Levi

Yup. 3 1/2" inlet. I'll pm you my address.

edit. O crap I forgot you live in another country. I'll have to ck shipping cost tomorrow to see if I need to pay to to take it

RC

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-17-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #429, 10-17-2005 12:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

wow, an impressive amount of work for a weekend! How far along in the tuning deparment do you feel you are? Are you having any heating problems? Is the street drivablility good?

not a captain at this airline, that was two companies ago. I was hauling pax then. the next company was freight. this company is pax again. Fed-ex would be the place to work. I guess I better keep an eye on the airspeed and altitude...

no heating problems at all. I'm using a stock Fiero radiator, but it's a brand new one that was in one of my parts cars. The drivability is good. some hesitation off idle but overall it's pretty good. just needs some fine tuning.

Experience is a wonderful thing. it enables you to recognise a mistake when you make it again.

Russ

Russ544 MSG #430, 10-21-2005 09:43 PM
      I had a lot of business related things to do today so not much got done on the IMSA except for installing the ECM cooling fan in the side of the console. I sealed off the area surounding the fan, and the entire r side vent, with foil tape so the incoming air is forced to go over the ecm and out the top vent opening. Power was tapped off of the old injector circut (red/blk) which is very convienient to access under the console and provides a fuse for the fan.



Russ544 MSG #431, 10-23-2005 10:13 PM
      I've had this idea of making a GT-40 looking dash for a couple of years but just never got around to it. one of the things that held me back was that I wasn't willing to loose the maze of heat/defrost vents within the dash, as well as the heater controls, or the radio, and I figured it would just be a nightmare to incorporate all these items into a whole new dash, so the thought occurred to me to keep the majority of the dash and just replace the instrument pod portion. ... one thing led to another and well........... here we go again
After the third prototype in poster board the design has come to this one, now in aluminum. I think this version will meet my requirements nicely but I do want to remove about 3/4 inch from the flat portion of the top. it looks a bit "fat" to me right now.
note that the face plate over the radio and heater control portion is part of the new dash pod face.

by hacking off a slice of the front surround, the instrument portion gets a slight angle for better viewing and it becomes easier to merge the dash face with the surround. a bit of shimming behind the heater control, to match the new angle, and a bit of modification to the dash vent will be needed as well. Things like lights and trunk popper will be controlled by toggle switches placed on an angled plate which will be to the right of the steering column.


Eventually this will be formed in fiberglass and at the moment I'm planning on using the stock speedo and tach but replacing the rest of the gauges with ones that actually read correctly.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-23-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #432, 10-29-2005 11:32 PM
      Huuummm. what I thought was gona be my dash turned out to be prototype # 17.65 . As much work as it's turning out to be to design and build these things I figured it would still be worth it to just start over again rather than try and re-do a design I didn't really like to begin with. Originally I intended to make the entire dash out of fiberglass, but the more I worked with the aluminum "mold" the more I liked the idea of using it for the permanent face, so that's the direction I'm going on this one.
After cutting out the dash face outline, but before opening up any holes in it, it was used as a partial mold, along with a temporary aluminum "surround" to develop a mounting flange for the face.

after the resin cured on that, the surround was removed and trimmed. The gauge holes then got cut into the face and it was placed inside the flange where it will eventually be attached with pop rivets.

One of the many challenges of this project is to figure out how to secure the new dash pod to the car. after all the pieces are finished I plan to cut the whole thing in half, just to the left of the console portion, to facilitate future service needs. so the left end needs to have it's own secure mounting system. At the moment I'm thinking of using a portion of the old cluster housing and grafting that onto the back of the new pod somehow. no sense planning too far ahead however, as that might take some of the challenge out of it .



madcurl (madcurl@fiero-performance.com) MSG #433, 10-30-2005 12:52 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

I've had this idea of making a GT-40 looking dash for a couple of years but just never got around to it. one of the things that held me back was that I wasn't willing to loose the maze of heat/defrost vents within the dash, as well as the heater controls, or the radio, and I figured it would just be a nightmare to incorporate all these items into a whole new dash, so the thought occurred to me to keep the majority of the dash and just replace the instrument pod portion. ....


Eventually this will be formed in fiberglass and at the moment I'm planning on using the stock speedo and tach but replacing the rest of the gauges with ones that actually read correctly.

Yep, it works for me. Keep up the very good work. I like it.



Russ544 MSG #434, 10-30-2005 07:23 PM
      I spent the day today redesigning the speedo, tach, idiot lights and odometer to mount behind the aluminum faceplate. this isn't exactly what Pontiac had in mind when they built these, so it took some doing. After the faceplate mask and clear covers were hacked to size, spacers of various lengths needed to be fabricated (I knew I'd been saving that old broken fly rod for a reason) and bonded on to provide three mounting stands per gauge. The odometer was severed from the speedo and moved over to the middle of the dash as I thought it would look funny sticking out the top of the dash pad. moving that just requires extending the 4 wires that run it.



GT (rickstewart@protonmail.ch) MSG #435, 10-30-2005 10:07 PM
      I just found this thread. I'm REALLY enjoying it. Keep up the great work!



Russ544 MSG #436, 10-30-2005 10:32 PM
      EDIT: Welcome aboard GT. As I stated at the beginning of all this, as long as people are interested, and I have something to post, I'll keep posting my progress (or regression ).
==============

Almost forgot to mention.. My favorite uncle, Stewart Warner, came to visit over the weekend and brought some gauges and red LEDs for each.
I also have a Pontiac CD player coming.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-30-2005).]

GonsaiPK MSG #437, 10-31-2005 12:47 AM
      Looking good. What have you chosen to keep tabs on?

Russ544 MSG #438, 10-31-2005 10:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GonsaiPK:

Looking good. What have you chosen to keep tabs on?

Thanks GonsaiPK.
The gauges are water temp, oil pres, volts and a fuel gauge. the lights will be turn signal, hi beam, parking brake, ajar, and [blank] .


Russ544 MSG #439, 11-19-2005 10:49 PM
      Contrary to popular belief, I haven't fallen off the edge of the earth. The dash project continues, however the motivation has become more one of sheer stubbornness than anything else. this defiantly ranks as one of the major PITA projects I've ever embarked upon, as virtually every facet of it has been repeated numerous times in an effort to reach the level of quality I require of my projects. My trash can is overflowing with rejects. Today I completed the foam shaping, and layed on a layer of fiberglass to form the dash "pad" portion. I'll do some bodywork on that tomorrow and share a pic of my (painfully slow) progress.

pass me another Corona,
Russ


Shibbypoopalot MSG #440, 11-19-2005 11:59 PM
      You say its a PITA, I say you should publish this as a book when you're done. I'd buy a copy.

Russ544 MSG #441, 11-20-2005 09:40 PM
      Got the foam covered in fiberglass and then did some touch up with bondo to smooth out any low areas. I'll eventually do a final skin coat of surfacing putty, but this is plenty good enough for now as I still have to glass in some support structure into the back, which is needed to attach it to the dash. The gauges will attach only to the fiberglass portion of the face so the mirade of screw heads won't show once the aluminum face is installed. I robbed a 15 pin connector (C-201) out of a parts car which will be used as an all-in-one connector for the dash pod. this should make future service work easier.
Still lots of work to do and problems to solve, but it's looking a little more like a dash now.


[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 11-20-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #442, 11-27-2005 10:39 PM
      "You say its a PITA, I say you should publish this as a book when you're done. I'd buy a copy. "

LOL It would take a book to show all the minute details involved in the dash portion of this project. My way isn't exactly the easy way
I'm working on the "real" dash now instead of the mock up, and have also pulled the dash that was in the car out (I'm saving it because it's flawless), and did some preliminary tracing and planning on the wireing. I'm also working on the switch panels which will mount under the dash on either side of the column. it looks like I've figured out a way to utilize the lower trim cover along with a much modified lower portion of the old gauge pod to support the switch plates. sorry no pics on that yet... perhaps next weekend

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 11-27-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #443, 12-10-2005 09:31 PM
      I finally gave up on the idea of using the lower portion of the Fiero dash pod to support the switch panels. by the time sufficient material is removed to allow clearance for the switches, as well as the lower portion of the speedo and tach, it has to be modified and reinforced so much that I couldn't justify the effort. However,.... a few hours with the welder, a hammer, and some sheetmetal yielded the unit shown below. two 3/8 bolts attach it to the bottom of the upper steering column bracket after welding some nuts into it. The original Fiero light switch and dimmer assy go into the left side, wile the trunk popper and a couple toggle switches will see service on the right side. by building this unit out of metal it also became possible to fabricate and weld on some spring steel clips on the back side of the face to hold the Fiero switches in a fashion similar to oem. (which solved the mystery of how to attach the stock switches)

I did a test fit of the major components today so this it what it looks like at the moment

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-13-2005).]

BV MotorSports (sbvincent@yahoo.com) MSG #444, 12-13-2005 09:50 AM
      Wow Russ, amazing work! I think your Fiero is my favorite on PFF.



VenturaFiero (crookclive@hotmail.com) MSG #445, 12-13-2005 01:42 PM
      Great job, keep up the work, and post more photos.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #446, 12-13-2005 01:43 PM
      Looks very nice!


Russ544 MSG #447, 12-13-2005 08:28 PM
      Awwww shucks guys thanks.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-17-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #448, 12-17-2005 09:25 PM
      I finished building the wireing harness today and tested it in the car. except for the parking brake warning light not coming on everything seems to be working correctly. haven't had a chance to check the brake light, but it's no biggie I'm sure.
There was room to build a fiberglass box (painted black in pic) to cover the tach and contain it's illumination, but the speedo requires that the dash itself serve as two sides of it's box wile an aluminum baffle covers the other sides. I checked it out inside my shop with the shop lights out and it works great except that I'll need a small strip of weatherstriping at the top of the dash so no red light shows out the windsheild (the cops wouldn't like that I suspect ).

I'm begining a two week vacation now so progress should improve

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-17-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #449, 12-19-2005 07:48 PM
      Today I was able to do the finish "bodywork" and painting, plus got everything reassembled and ready to go back into the car.

I think I'm gona' like it

Russ

Russ544 MSG #450, 12-20-2005 09:53 PM
      yippie-ky-yay! even though this dash project has inexplicably fought me at every turn, I finally got it finished and installed today, and I'm pretty happy with the results. that being said however, I will not be repeating this endevor any time soon. Like I said........ I'm really glad it's finished
I still need to do some house cleaning, and install the aluminum cover I made to go under the column/switch plate to hide the wires etc. I also want to pick up some better speakers now that the new Pontiac CD player (from replacementradios .com) is in there. these things sound great and fit the Fiero well btw. very happy with that item.


I need to install some poly in the front suspension and modify the upper a arm mount so it can be properly aligned, but other than that...... this baby is just about ready to meet the world

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-21-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #451, 12-21-2005 02:45 AM
      PFC! looks great. I am curious to see what kind of gas milage you are going to get with normal driving.


Russ544 MSG #452, 12-21-2005 10:05 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

PFC! looks great. I am curious to see what kind of gas milage you are going to get with normal driving.

What is "normal driving"???

I won't be driving it much until the weather improves, but I'll let ya'll know how it does.

Thanks for all the kind words,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-21-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #453, 12-24-2005 06:22 PM
      PS:

Between house cleaning, fixing the chimney cap on my house, packing in some firewood, etc., I did putter on the car today a bit. I installed a tee at the oil pressure sender so I could keep the OEM sender with it's fuel pump backup circuit, and also have the sender for the new gauge.
The other day when I was testing the new electrical circuits I noticed that the alternator didn't seem to be charging at all. After some homework in the shop manual I found my error in that the cs charging system requires an idiot light or gauge to be attached to a terminal on the alternator in order for the regulator to function. I'd simply attached the gauge to a switched B+ wire, and didn't see a need to have an idiot light, so............. no charge. The fascinating thing is, however, that when I was laying out the switches on the lower panel I ended up with a bit of empty space to the left of the light switches, so I stuck a red light in there just to fill up the space. it wasn't attached to anything, it was just for looks............ I thought

By swaping a couple wires to utilise the light as a charge indicator lamp, the system is charging perfectly now. I just love it when a plan comes together.

happy holidays all,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-24-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #454, 01-03-2006 10:45 PM
      Just a shameless bump to stay out of archive land. I've been working on the trailer lately, but I'll get back here one of these days



Russ544 MSG #455, 01-22-2006 03:21 PM
      That bright light in the sky (I think it's called the sun) paid a visit today for the first time in months, so that inspired me to get the IMSA out and do a couple things to it. a month or so ago I had gone to a local graphics shop and studied up on various things they can make now-a -days. one of the coolest is a "mask" that's made out of a heavy enough material that you can sand blast through it without damage. I took them my copy of The Fiero Spotters Guide as it has a really cool type style of "Fiero" on the cover that would kind of curve around the top of my steering column. Today I took the face off the new dash and placed the mask in that big blank space that had been bugging me, and gave it a blast. I think it came out way cool and is just the look I wanted


Wile I was at the graphics shop I also had a simple decal made to fit on the throttle bracket for those at shows who missed the plaque on the rear bumper

BTW: if you want to have some decals or a mask made it's really cheep these days. even with them doing some simple layout work I was only charged $18.00 for the two items. perhaps it's more $ in some areas but even doubled it would still be worth it IMO.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 01-22-2006).]

THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #456, 01-24-2006 03:05 PM
      Well done Russ!

JG


THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #457, 01-24-2006 03:07 PM
      BTW are you using spacers?



Russ544 MSG #458, 01-24-2006 07:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by THE BEAST:

BTW are you using spacers?

spacers? I don't understand the question.

Russ

Russ544 MSG #459, 02-19-2006 07:53 PM
      Got my trailer project pretty much done yesterday so I pulled the IMSA in the shop to see what I need to do to install a hitch under the license plate. doesn't look too tough, but wile I had the car up on jackstands I decided to go ahead and pull the fuel tank and try to cure the noisy fuel pump that's been driving me nuts. I ended up bending the lower pump support bracket a tad and installing a new screen of a different design. I was successful in getting it up off the bottom of the tank and what a difference much much quieter now that the pump isn't resting on the bottom of the tank. if you have this problem I highly recomend this sollution ,.

Russ out

GT (rickstewart@protonmail.ch) MSG #460, 02-23-2006 09:54 PM
      Hi Russ-

Just wanted to congratulate you on all the great work... and the detailed journal. Yours is definitely one of my favorite Fieros.

And also thanks for the heads up on www.replacementradios.com . I ordered a Monsoon AM/FM CD w/equalizer from them tonight. It's EXACTLY what I wanted, a nice stock look and good functionality.



Russ544 MSG #461, 02-24-2006 11:54 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GT:

Hi Russ-

Just wanted to congratulate you on all the great work... and the detailed journal. Yours is definitely one of my favorite Fieros.

And also thanks for the heads up on www.replacementradios.com . I ordered a Monsoon AM/FM CD w/equalizer from them tonight. It's EXACTLY what I wanted, a nice stock look and good functionality.



Thanks Rick. it's definitely been the pinical of my car building career. I never though I'd best the SBC Fiero that I built a few years ago but now that this one is done I have to say it's true. this one is my best work. awsome power/torque, sound, looks, handling, fuel economy, and best of all just the sheer fun of driving the thing. it gives me goose bumps, and those are priceless .

You'll really like the Pontiac radio. put in some decent speakers and it will sound great, as well as looking like it belongs in the car. Glad to see I'm not the only one that hates those aftermarket scabbed in units that stick out of the butchered dash an inch.

What the heck is a 5.0 CaddyV8? I guess I haven't seen that one yet, but it sounds cool.

Cheers,
Russ



GT (rickstewart@protonmail.ch) MSG #462, 02-24-2006 01:54 PM
      Do you have any completed video or sound clips? Or any photos from the back?

 
quote
Glad to see I'm not the only one that hates those aftermarket scabbed in units that stick out of the butchered dash an inch.

Yeeeesh, I hear ya. Factory look and aftermarket performance is what I'm going for. I got a factory sub with a Rodney Dickman replacement speaker. Then there's the amp that I bought that's too big to be stealthy so I've gotta either downsize or find a secret location for it. And I have some pioneer 4x10's in the front. I was searching the archives for stereo advice and came across some really helpful info on using one 5.25" mid and a tweeter on a plate insead of the factory 4x10's. It helps to separate the frequencies and use less watts to get great sound production. I like tone quality, not necessarily volume.

 
quote
What the heck is a 5.0 CaddyV8? I guess I haven't seen that one yet, but it sounds cool.

It's just a 4.9 Caddy FWD V8 that's been bored .040" and fitted with Northstar pistons. CR is about 10.5:1.

-RIck

[This message has been edited by GT (edited 02-24-2006).]

Jefrysuko MSG #463, 02-24-2006 08:42 PM
      Russ,

I have a challenge for you in building your hitch if you so accept. I was planning a way to mount the hitch in the steel bumper of the car with the hitch pin hidden behind the bumper cover and the hitch itself flush with with a hole in the center of the license plate recess. The idea was to have the pin spring loaded and cable acutuated with a cable that was accessable from under the rear of the car. Obviously you would have to remove the license plate or have it hinged but that would be the easy part.

If you would like to know more details of what I had in mind I would be willing to take some pictures of what little I have accomplished.

Looking forward to seeing how go about it.

Russ544 MSG #464, 02-24-2006 10:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jefrysuko:

Russ,

I have a challenge for you in building your hitch if you so accept. I was planning a way to mount the hitch in the steel bumper of the car with the hitch pin hidden behind the bumper cover and the hitch itself flush with with a hole in the center of the license plate recess. The idea was to have the pin spring loaded and cable acutuated with a cable that was accessable from under the rear of the car. Obviously you would have to remove the license plate or have it hinged but that would be the easy part.

If you would like to know more details of what I had in mind I would be willing to take some pictures of what little I have accomplished.

Looking forward to seeing how go about it.

Huummm. a day late and a dollar short as usual . Sounds like what I have so far is pretty much what you discribe except for the cable release part. mine is totally behind the plate which (will) hinge up to insert the receiver. The major portion of the hitch is already welded into the bumper, as well as being welded to a new crossmember between the mufflers and the bumper. I've had a lot of distractions lately that require my attention but I should have some time tomorrow to get a pic or two up of the progress to date.
I'd still be interested in seeing your idea however. can you post a pic or two here so others can see as well?

Russ

Russ544 MSG #465, 02-24-2006 10:30 PM
      BTW GT. I don't have any decent sound clips. I tried to get an MPEG a few weeks ago but it was inside my shop and sounded horible. weather is slowly improving here so I do plan to try again when I can get outside. It does sound wicked. I'll also get some better shots of the rear of the car, as well as other angles (I haven't forgotten about your requested pics either Ted )

Cheers,
Russ


bonzo (llaaragon@cs.com) MSG #466, 02-25-2006 08:16 AM
      Russ,

Your work has always amazed me. I wish we weren't on opposite sides of the country so I could yee your work in person.



Amida (robert.kusakabe@comcast.net) MSG #467, 02-28-2006 07:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroMonkey:

Mine was built this way and sold new at a Pontiac dealership in CO in 84 as a "Banshee Turbo Fiero" (still have to paint it before i can re-apply the decals. only 3 were built, and as far as i know, mine (#1 of the 3) is the only one left. [QUOTE]

Were the front/rear fascias made of the same flexible urethane?



bonzo (llaaragon@cs.com) MSG #468, 02-28-2006 08:20 PM
      I believe the Banshee Facia was fiber glass. Correct me if I'm wrong. You can make your own with a airdam from the Fiero WareHouse and glass/rubberbumper repair it in smooth.
Sorry to HiJack

Bonzo

THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #469, 03-01-2006 12:56 PM
      Close enough!

JG

ALLTRBO MSG #470, 03-30-2006 08:52 PM
      I just found this through a different search.

This car is just unreal, very very nice work. There are only 3 or 4 Fieros that stand out in my mind as the cream of the crop, and this is now one of them.

Through reading all this I've been wondering how I can work toward coming upon the time, money, and resources neccesary to be able to undertake a project of this caliber such as you apparently have, and I just don't see it being possible.
Maybe as a start I need to just quit reading through 87 page threads, get off my butt, and get out there and work on something.
I'm going out to change my shocks now.

Once again, that's a beautiful piece of work, in every way. Good job.



Russ544 MSG #471, 04-01-2006 04:10 PM
      [QUOTE]Originally posted by ALLTRBO:

I just found this through a different search.

This car is just unreal, very very nice work. There are only 3 or 4 Fieros that stand out in my mind as the cream of the crop, and this is now one of them.

Through reading all this I've been wondering how I can work toward coming upon the time, money, and resources neccesary to be able to undertake a project of this caliber such as you apparently have, and I just don't see it being possible.
Maybe as a start I need to just quit reading through 87 page threads, get off my butt, and get out there and work on something.
I'm going out to change my shocks now.

Once again, that's a beautiful piece of work, in every way. Good job.

Thanks alltrbo. It's always nice to hear that people appreciate the blood sweat and tears involved in this type of project.
As to how you can build such a car I can share a couple of my secrets. First become single and totally unattached, then get your house paid off. then drive older used cars for enough years that you can gather some play money. do those things for 12 years or so, as I did, and you to can build the car of your dreams.
as to my future projects it appears that I'll have to find a new formula if I want to builld another project of this magnitude. at 55 years young I've sucumbed for a third time, and the third time IS the charm in this case.

Cheers to all, it's truely been a blast,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 04-01-2006).]

vortecfiero (vortecfiero@hotmail.com) MSG #472, 04-02-2006 10:08 AM
      wow nice build... nice engine too lol



ALLTRBO MSG #473, 04-03-2006 06:27 PM
      You're welcome. I know I feel a little proud when someone notices my hard work in various situations.

 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
First become single and totally unattached

Well there's my problem. I'm getting married in November. Actually it's no problem at all, as she happily comes before anything mechanical.

I am going to college when I get out the Navy this fall (there's no excuse not to when the GI bill pays for almost all of it), so hopefully in a couple few years I'll be settled and making decent enough money to continue partly funding the car hobby, even with a family. Only time will tell, so we'll see. Good luck with everything.




Jefrysuko MSG #474, 04-03-2006 07:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
as to my future projects it appears that I'll have to find a new formula if I want to builld another project of this magnitude.

Russ,

I read this post of yours and had to think on it for a couple days and I think I have a solution for you. Marry for the money. LOL, just kidding. Congratulations on the third time. Wish you the best.



Russ544 MSG #475, 06-15-2006 08:49 PM
     

I've been pretty busy lately but thought I'd stop by for a bit to say hello. Entered a car show a few miles from here the other day but didn't win anything. I guess street rod people aren't inclined to vote for real cars . It was fun to hang back and listen to the comments of the passer-bys however. one of my favorites: "Wow! nice GT40...... is that a big block chev in there?" LOL Oh well... can't win em all. ha ha.
I'll get back here more often in a few weeks.

Cheers,
Russ


Jefrysuko MSG #476, 06-15-2006 09:43 PM
      Good to hear from you again. When you going to show us a picture of that thing towing the trailer?

I am headed out tomorrow to cut out the front end off a car for my trailer which is the last part I need. I probably won't get started till next year (second kid on the way) but expect to hear from me asking stupid questions when I do.



Russ544 MSG #477, 06-15-2006 11:46 PM
     

There's still a few details left to do on the trailer to get it show worthy, but it's fully functional now.

The hardest part was painting the cat to match

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 08-17-2006).]

Russ544 MSG #478, 08-11-2006 04:20 PM
      I'm getting married this afternoon so I should be back working in the shop before long

Russ


Roylmohr MSG #479, 08-11-2006 08:42 PM
      Sweet ride.

Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #480, 08-11-2006 09:37 PM
      Congrats Russ!

Here's to "Happily ever after" being confident that's how it'll be for you and your new life partner.

Good luck to you in all you do.

HAGO!


Russ544 MSG #481, 08-11-2006 11:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sage:

Congrats Russ!

Here's to "Happily ever after" being confident that's how it'll be for you and your new life partner.

Good luck to you in all you do.

HAGO!


Thanks. I did good this time around..... real good.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 08-11-2006).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #482, 08-12-2006 12:35 AM
      you lucky devil!

Russ544 MSG #483, 08-17-2006 05:24 PM
      oops

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 08-17-2006).]

Russ544 MSG #484, 09-14-2006 06:23 PM
      Yesterday I dusted off the IMSA and went for a drive (the first in weeks). It was a blast and dissapointing all at the same time, as I realise that tis project has reached a point I always dread. that point is known as "finished", which I've mentioned before is generally equal to "for sale"



you'll be seeing this car in the mall before long. I'm thinking $18,000.oo as a fair price. I expect if I'd kept receipts they would total more than that in parts alone.
I still have a few projects in mind for my SE350, but I may actually build something other than a Fiero (perrish the thought) one of these days also. I'm thinking of a gasser style car based on a Fiat Topolino. basicly a bucket T with a roof .

Regardless of where I go from here I will deffinetly stay in touch with the Fiero world. they really are a blast.

Cheers,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-14-2006).]

Custom2M4 (custom2m4@hotmail.com) MSG #485, 09-20-2006 11:16 PM
      From this angle your paint looks faded.. Better add a new nose, and interior. Its not done yet.

Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #486, 09-21-2006 07:53 AM
     
 
quote
From this angle your paint looks faded.. Better add a new nose, and interior. Its not done yet.


ROTFLMA!

Good one!

How's it goin Russ?

HAGO!


kwagner MSG #487, 09-21-2006 09:02 AM
      Great looking car, Russ. Good luck with the sale

Russ544 MSG #488, 09-28-2006 07:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sage:


ROTFLMA!

Good one!

How's it goin Russ?

HAGO!


It's going good Ted. I've begun gathering parts for my next project (the N* powered street rod) and have been enjoying married life as well as life in general. and I hope things are going well for you also.
If I haven't mentioned it for a wile, I'd also like to say that it's guys like you that make guys like me enjoy this car hobbie so much. the awsome parts you make with those two hands make it a whole bunch more fun to do what I do with mine.
Lots of interest, but my hands didn't get any greener from posting the car for sale, so I guess I'll keep it a bit longer, refine it a bit more, and keep raising the price until it sells

The SE350 goes in the garage next however, as I have a couple "refinements" left to do on it also LOL.

see you all around the next bend in the road,

Russ544


Russ544 MSG #489, 10-20-2006 05:06 PM
      Hi all,

I've had a couple of inquires lately about my use of the Holly Commander computer setup an the Northstar, so I thought it must be time to make a small update here on my opinion of the system.
DON'T USE ONE!!.
Although the Holly seems to have a vast amount of tunability and versitility, I've never been able to really make the thing control the motor to the degree that I feel it should. as a matter a fact I can't think of anyone who is using one who claims to have it running to their compleat satisfaction. the idle seems to be the constant battle for most people. at least it is with mine. under power the thing just flat hauls the mail, but at a stop sign it surges and blubbers all the time, and off idle, when pullijng away from a stop, it wants to buck sometimes. Maybe I'm just to critical, or too stupid to get it tuned "right", but if that's the case then I'm not alone in my shortcomings.
I'm currently waiting for a tweeked GM unit from Ryan Hess, along with a pre-fab wire harness, so we'll see how that pans out. it sems to work very well for him, and he went through the same things I have on the Holly system initially, so....... I'll let ya'll know how it works out for me.
If you do decide to go the Holly route, also be advised that a unit purchased off E-bay, and not set up by CHRF will NOT be able to opperate the Northstar correctly. CHRF has an exclusive on the Northstar setup in the Commander (it's more than just a software change), so you'll be sending it to them to be modified for the N* anyway. also they supply the correct wire harness with their units suitable for the N*, and without it you'll be pulling your hair out. bottom line is: if you want to go Holly, by all means get the correct setup from CHRF to begin with,....................... I did purchase from CHRF, but now that I've used one I sure don't recomend the unit myself.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-20-2006).]

Bill Strong (wdstrongjr@racingstrong.com) MSG #490, 10-22-2006 09:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


The highest points in the system need to be bleed of any air pockets by attaching a line to them and routing it to the lower port on the neck of the surge tank where it can be purged into a low mounted coolant recovery tank via the upper port on the surge tank. Water is circulated through the surge tank at all times as it gets plumbed in line with the heater hose system.
As I showed earlier, I enlarged the port near the radiator hose neck to accept a temp sender, thus eliminating the original purge port, so a new vent needed to be made in that area. One of the bolts that holds on the bracket on top of the neck is screwed into a blind hole, but by drilling it on through into the water passage below it and tapping the hole for 10MM threads (note shop vac to extract chips), the old vent fitting can now be installed here.




Purging the high point of the radiator itself will be experimental, as I plan to install a cap on the radiator and run a line from the overflow port all the way back to the surge tank purge line. the pressure cap will be on the surge tank itself and both the surge tank and overflow recovery tank will be located in the engine bay.




Russ,

Did this work out okay for you?




Zac88GT (snarfboot@hotmail.com) MSG #491, 10-22-2006 10:56 AM
      I tried using the same method and i thought that it worked, but when i went to replace the thermostat gasket after i filled the car with antifreeze all the aluminum chips came flying out the water pump inlet. My vacuum may not have been as strong as his shop vac but i would take extra precautions if using this method, flush the whole thing out before running the car.

Russ544 MSG #492, 10-22-2006 12:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bill Strong:


Russ,

Did this work out okay for you?




Yup. it sure did Bill. I'm actually using a stock (although brand new) Fiero radiator on this car, and have had zero heating/cooling system problems with it. I burped the system as normal before I first fired the car and haven't touched that system since.
Do be sure to clean out the aluminum chips after you drill and tap the hole however.

Russ

PS: I just re-read my original post again, and I ended up NOT placing a return line from the old radiator overflow port back to the purge tank. I capped off the radiator and placed a valve on the old overflow port, just in case I need to vent out any trapped air, but I've never needed to use it.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-22-2006).]

Bill Strong (wdstrongjr@racingstrong.com) MSG #493, 10-23-2006 09:06 AM
      cool.
I am not using a water based coolant, and it wont be pressurized, so bleading should be easier. I am now using a GM aluminum radiator as the MR2 radiator is great for 1.6 liter engines, it slowed down the flow of the coolant pretty bad.
My engine is apart, so I wond have to worry about aluminum

nice job by the way



Russ544 MSG #494, 12-24-2006 08:25 PM
      As I mentioned a wile back I really haven't been satisfied with the Holly computer system in this car, so I had Ryan Hess set up one of his GM units and a new harness for me a wile back. today I finally had some time to work on the car, and managed to get the old harness removed. boy howdy that was a job ! when I built this engine I made a lot of harness retainers to snug the loom up close to the motor and had run a number of wires under the intake manifold etc., in order to keep the engine compartment as uncluttered as possible.



A Northstar engine in a Fiero doesn't have a nickels worth of working room around the motor, so I have some skinned knuckles for my efforts, but the harness is out.
in retrospect it would have been better, and perhaps easier, to just remove the engine to do this but it's too late now



in the next couple days I should have some time to get the new harness merged in with the old stuff. The wife and I are leaving for Arizona for two weeks, along about next Thursday, but it would be nice to have this back together by then. We'll see

Russ544

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-27-2006).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #495, 12-25-2006 12:41 AM
      I have been hoping that you would find some time and report how the new setup from Ryan was working.
It is actually pretty chilly here in town right now but a lot better than the folks buried in snow.


edit: forgot to throw in a MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 12-25-2006).]

Russ544 MSG #496, 12-25-2006 11:32 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I have been hoping that you would find some time and report how the new setup from Ryan was working.
It is actually pretty chilly here in town right now but a lot better than the folks buried in snow.


edit: forgot to throw in a MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!



high 50s is 20 degrees warmer than we are here now, but we have our request in, with the powers that be, to add at least 20 more degrees to the AZ weather for our arrival.

I do have high hopes for the setup from Ryan, but whatever the outcome I'll report it as factually as I can, as I'm sure there are several other very interested eyes out there who haven't spoken up yet. the fire is started in the wood stove in my shop, and I'll be out there soon.

and a HO HO HO back at cha

Russ


Russ544 MSG #497, 12-25-2006 09:22 PM
      Have I mentioned that I REALLY hate wireing? I don't know what it is about all that spagetti, but for some reason my brain just locks up in it's presents.

anyway..................... I laid out the old harness that I was using with the Holly (above) and compared it with the one that Ryan supplied. as I suspected, if I want the wires hidden again I'll have to pretty much start from scratch on assembling the new one, so I carefully separated the Fiero harness portion from the Holly portion.

Although I didn't take a picture of it, I've also laid out Ryans harness on the motor and begun modifing and re-routing it to suit my needs. it's a slow and tedious process for my anti-wire brain, but seems to be going ok so far. the only major thing I haven't figured out yet is the O-2 sensor. his harness has three wires labled as 0-2, but I only see two on his schematic (I suspect the extra one may be for when a wideband O-2 is used) but my Caddy sensor has 4 wires........ the Holly 0-2 sensor had 3 wires.... huummm. details details details.
maybe things will look better tomorrow, if I have enough eggnog tonight


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #498, 12-26-2006 12:00 PM
      The four wires to the Caddy sensor are heater power, heater ground, sensor signal and sensor ground. If Ryan's harness calls for only sensor signal and ground, then just run the heater wire from a hot-in-run power source. I pull mine from the Fan E fuse via C500-B1. Just ground the heater ground appropriately.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-26-2006).]

Russ544 MSG #499, 12-26-2006 02:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

The four wires to the Caddy sensor are heater power, heater ground, sensor signal and sensor ground. If Ryan's harness calls for only sensor signal and ground, then just run the heater wire from a hot-in-run power source. I pull mine from the Fan E fuse via C500-B1. Just ground the heater ground appropriately.



That sounds logical to me. his schematic shows a provision at the ECM for a heated 0-2, and I can provide a ground for it easy enough. I PMed him to confirm, but I do believe that would work. thanks Will.

Russ544


Russ544 MSG #500, 12-26-2006 10:17 PM
      OK.... Ryan confirmed the 4 wire 0-2 setup, so that problem appears solved, but another item that I thought was a non issue turned out to be a minor headache. The knock sensor needed for Ryans ECM is a 93-95 N* unit. that knock sensor mounts on the side of the block. unfortunatly the boss used for that is now serving duty as one of my rear motor mount supports. The 98 N* that I'm using had it's knock sensor in the valley under the intake manifold (the Holly Commander doesn't even use a knock sensor however so it was just along for the ride). the 98 unit has a different connector, and according to Ryan it isn't compatable with his ECM anyway. the logical solution for my situation was therefor to install the early sensor in the valley position, but the mounting hole is a different size. I have no clue what size that is, as it doesn't match anything I know about in metric or US, but a 1/4" pipe tap is pretty darn close and worked out just fine after first drilling out the hole to 7/16".
With those issues apparantly resolved I went ahead and installed the Fiero portion of the wire harness.


as you can see I decided to set up the Fiero portion and the "Hess" portion as compleatly separate wire looms. I'll install my modified "Hess" portion tomorrow. if this ECM works out well I'll eventually be pulling the engine and cleaning up the routing of these harneses even more (yes I'm anal about those things). it's just darn near impossible to make a really clean installation with the engine in the car. the "Fiero portion" of the wireing consists mainly of the starter, alternator, oil presure and water temp guage senders, back up light switch and VSS. The C500 connector (above the right side wheelwell) and the firewall pass-through are also part of this harness.

I've got one more day to work on this project before Jennifer and I pack up and go on our honymoon, so I may or may not finish up the car before then. it actually doesn't look good at this point, but if not, we'll be back in two weeks.

Russ544

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-27-2006).]

Hudini (hudini@tds.net) MSG #501, 12-27-2006 07:34 AM
     
What does the N* use for idle control? I ask because you and ryan hess have both reported idle problems with the holley commander.


Russ544 MSG #502, 12-27-2006 02:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:


What does the N* use for idle control? I ask because you and ryan hess have both reported idle problems with the holley commander.


I'm sure Ryan or Will could explain the workings of the caddy idle air control (IAC) system much better than I, but from my limited knowledge it appears to be pretty much an industry standard design of regulating the amount of air that can bypass the throttle plates. I've never heard anything but speculation as to why the Holly has so much trouble controlling idle, but even Allan (CHRF) will admit to it's shortcomings in this area, for street driven applications. Just like everyone else, I've developed my own theory as to why the Holley won't hold a good idle, and mine is based mostly on second had information so it's speculation at best.
I've heard that the Holly sends it's signal to the IAC and IGN in a somewhat analog fashion. in other words, if the base map at near idle speeds were something like 8 - 8 - 8 - 9 - 9 - 9 - 10 - 10 - 11 - 11 - 12 and it was idling in the 9 to 10 range, the holly might start attempting to compensate the IAC setting which increases the slight surge. which in turn may cause it to hit 11, which inceases the surge even more, etc, etc until the ecm sees the idle speed is out of spec and tries to make more drastic changes like timing and bigger IAC changes to compensate which just worsens the vicious cycle. The GM computer, on the other hand, uses a more sophisticated system of "averaging" between the points on the base map. in effect eliminating any "jump" between them, and thereby damping any potential for oscillation.
like I said.... just my speculation.

sort of reminds me of an old MASH episode where Col Potter was asking Radar if he understood the stack of Army paperwork he was asking Potter to sign. the response was simply: "I try not to sir. it slows down the work".

back to work on the harness,
Russ544

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-27-2006).]

Russ544 MSG #503, 12-27-2006 08:27 PM
      Topside everything is buttoned up again. a couple wires still need to be plugged in down below, but I'll jack it up and do that later. it didn't clutter things up too bad.



The ECM and some of it's wiring is installed now, but I still need to trace a few wires and hook them up. I cut an old C-203 connector (as used under the console).in half to use to connect unterminated wires on Ryans harness like tach, rad fan, speedo, fuel pump, ECM ground and B+ (I go directly to the battery with these), and switched power. Ryan sets up his harness with these wires arranged to hook up near the C-500, but I had previously hooked up those things under the consol with the Holly so that's the way I set up his harness also.



As to Ryans harness. having all new connectors and wiring provides a large degree of confidence in the system that you just don't get with hacked together used stuff.
Looks like we'll have to wait a couple weeks to find out how well it runs however. unfortunately my time allocation to work on this has run out, and I'll soon be forced to lay in the Arizona sun for two weeks with a beautiful woman. oh the humanity

Russ


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #504, 12-27-2006 10:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

I'll soon be forced to lay in the Arizona sun for two weeks with a beautiful woman. oh the humanity

Russ


Your'e making it real hard to feel sorry for ya' .

I'm looking forward to seeing How this works out for you.

Iv'e got my clutch and flywheel from CHRF, Chip and wiring info from Ryan, other parts from Purple Reign, Rodney Dickman and the Fiero Store. I'll be starting soon.

when things go wrong,
don't follow them. Joe


Russ544 MSG #505, 01-18-2007 08:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:


Your'e making it real hard to feel sorry for ya' .

I'm looking forward to seeing How this works out for you.





Well it worked out really well in Arizona Joe. thanks for asking. it was 70* most days, except up North where it was in the 50s.
I'm not sure what happened however, as we've noticed a posie has been on our tail ever since we headed for home, and my boots smell like horse rocky..................... maybe we're just imagining those things?



Oh.... did you mean the car? I'll get back to that as soon as we warm up. it's FREEZING up here in Oregon now.

Russ544



ZeroC (tylercaddick@gmail.com) MSG #506, 01-20-2007 04:45 AM
      I Always Love Those Pics..Guy Gets The Gun And Girl Gets The Booze lol

Should Be The Other Way ...Girl Gets The Gun FOR The Boozer Guy lol



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #507, 01-20-2007 01:07 PM
      I don't know exactly how it happened but my wife and I had a very similar picture taken in OR. I don't remember the name of the little town but it was on the south side of the Columbia river were it exits into the Pacific. I do remember that I was cold the last couple of weeks here, that Canada air must of made it down here just as your wagon train was pulling out.

Russ544 MSG #508, 01-21-2007 11:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I don't know exactly how it happened but my wife and I had a very similar picture taken in OR. I don't remember the name of the little town but it was on the south side of the Columbia river were it exits into the Pacific. I do remember that I was cold the last couple of weeks here, that Canada air must of made it down here just as your wagon train was pulling out.


Ha ha. yup. from the looks of the weather shown on Barrett Jackson I'd say we made it out just in time. we spent our last day in Arizona at the Grand Canyon and they were saying they expected several inches of snow the day after we were leaving. we had a blast on our trip, but it's sure cold here now also. high 30s and low 40s for the high the past several days. I've tried to get the woodstove stoked enough to get my shop warm enough to work out there several times, but until today I made no progress on the car. today I did get the remaining unterminated wires all hooked up. unfortunatly I seem to have a short somewhere (blows the ECM fuse as soon as the key hits "on") and I didn't have time today (Sunday) to trace it out. perhaps next weekend will be warmer and I'll be more inspired to sort it out.


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #509, 02-04-2007 08:04 PM
      Bump.

Russ544 MSG #510, 02-05-2007 11:23 AM
      sorry guys. I just haven't had time to work on this for a wile now. We're building a new house and I never realised how much baby-sitting would be required of us. there's a constant stream of permits to obtain, inspections to deal with, and decisions to be made. then there's my work
I've been feeling guilty about not having the car done for the "review" of Ryans setup, but I promise I'll get back to it as soon as I can.


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #511, 02-05-2007 08:11 PM
      Russ, when you got your clucth from CHRF, did they send a throw out bearing or did you have to get one? the one they sent me is for a longitudinal setup and isn't even close to being the right one, they are trying to work with me on this, but insist that it's the same bearing that they have sent for all of thier Fiero/Northstar sets.

Edit; Another question for ya'. Did your flywheel look like this before you machined .200 of off the surface?




Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 02-05-2007).]

Russ544 MSG #512, 02-05-2007 10:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:

Russ, when you got your clucth from CHRF, did they send a throw out bearing or did you have to get one? the one they sent me is for a longitudinal setup and isn't even close to being the right one, they are trying to work with me on this, but insist that it's the same bearing that they have sent for all of thier Fiero/Northstar sets.

Edit; Another question for ya'. Did your flywheel look like this before you machined .200 of off the surface?

Joe



It's been a wile, but as I recall I did supply my own to bearing. and yes, I'm pretty sure your flywheel is like mine before I had it machined. I do recall that there was only a very small lip left above the ring gear after machining.
FYI. the best (and cheepest) way to have the flywheel machined is to have them put it in a brake lathe for the first 90% of the cut, then have them use the flywheel resurfacer for the last pass to get things perfectly true and with the proper finish on the face.


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #513, 02-06-2007 06:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

I'm pretty sure your flywheel is like mine before I had it machined. I do recall that there was only a very small lip left above the ring gear after machining.
.


I was afraid you were going to say that, Thanks. If youv'e see my thread Northstar autopsy you'll know that I'm not exactly having fun with this swap.

Joe



Russ544 MSG #514, 02-06-2007 08:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:


I was afraid you were going to say that, Thanks. If youv'e see my thread Northstar autopsy you'll know that I'm not exactly having fun with this swap.

Joe


Ya. I did see your thread. I've seen N* short blocks go for as little as a hundred bucks however, and a bare crank would be even less if that would get you going.
As far as the flywheel is concerned, it's really no big deal to have the flywheel faced. just about any automotive maching shop can do it for very little $. I guess you just have to look at it as just another part of the adventure of hot rodding. when it's all together and running you'll look back and laugh at the little glitches in the buildup and realise how it was WAY worth it all.


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #515, 02-06-2007 11:53 PM
      Yeah I know that there will be bumps along the way, I just get a little bent when I have to rework parts that are supposed to fit out of the box.

I need to gain at least .240 of an inch for the clucth to fit and even more to compensate for wear of the clucth, I'm thinking that an 1/8" plate between the engine and the trans would really help, I was already planing on cutting the stut tower. I'll never understand what GM was thinking when they offset the block the way that they did.

Joe


Russ544 MSG #516, 02-07-2007 10:55 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:

Yeah I know that there will be bumps along the way, I just get a little bent when I have to rework parts that are supposed to fit out of the box.

I need to gain at least .240 of an inch for the clucth to fit and even more to compensate for wear of the clucth, I'm thinking that an 1/8" plate between the engine and the trans would really help, I was already planing on cutting the stut tower. I'll never understand what GM was thinking when they offset the block the way that they did.

Joe


whooo. I don't know why you'd need to cut .240 (even if you could). With the to bearing that's made to go with whatever trans you want to use, the flywheel should be the same thickness as mine. I removed .200 from mine. I could be wrong but...... measure twice - cut once .



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #517, 02-07-2007 10:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:

Yeah I know that there will be bumps along the way, I just get a little bent when I have to rework parts that are supposed to fit out of the box.

I need to gain at least .240 of an inch for the clucth to fit and even more to compensate for wear of the clucth, I'm thinking that an 1/8" plate between the engine and the trans would really help, I was already planing on cutting the stut tower. I'll never understand what GM was thinking when they offset the block the way that they did.

Joe


That's a CHRF flywheel, right? It's made to fit LONGITUDINAL transmissions which have deeper bellhousings than transverse transmissions. That should require the same treatment as a 3800 flywheel does in order to be used with a 282. It is NOT supposed to fit a 282 out of the box.

You do NOT need 1/8" plate between the engine and trans. I would think that would be counterproductive, as it will decrease the amount of engagement that the alignment dowels have with the bellhousing.

What do you mean "When GM offset the block the way they did"?


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #518, 02-08-2007 12:31 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


That's a CHRF flywheel, right? It's made to fit LONGITUDINAL transmissions which have deeper bellhousings than transverse transmissions. That should require the same treatment as a 3800 flywheel does in order to be used with a 282. It is NOT supposed to fit a 282 out of the box.

You do NOT need 1/8" plate between the engine and trans. I would think that would be counterproductive, as it will decrease the amount of engagement that the alignment dowels have with the bellhousing.

What do you mean "When GM offset the block the way they did"?


I found the problem with my measurements, there was a problem with the throwout arm causing the throwout bearing to stand out in the bellhousing.



When I ordered the clucth and flywheel package from CHRF They were told that it was for an 87Fiero gt v6 5speed, they claim to have 6 sets out and don't seem to be aware of any problems, right! I don't like spending that much money on swap parts that don't fit and need more money/time spent to make it right.

As for what i meant about offset, I was talking about the orientation of the cylinders in the block with #1 being in the rear bank, taking up valuble space.

Joe



pavo_roddy MSG #519, 02-11-2007 10:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


Sorry pavo_roddy, I had meant to reply earlier but when we went to the new page I forgot.

As measured at the center of the wheel openings the front of the widebody is 2 1/2" wider (1 1/4" per side) and the rear is 4 1/2" wider (2 1/4" per side). The front of the wb facia is pretty close to stock width but quickly flares out to meet the wider fenders.

Russ


HI all

Russ, if you had the choice to go with a wider front track would you? Say an inch?



Russ544 MSG #520, 02-11-2007 11:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by pavo_roddy:


HI all

Russ, if you had the choice to go with a wider front track would you? Say an inch?


front track as in tread width? or fender width? In eather case, no, I like it just fine the way it is now. the widebody kit may not sound like much of an increase, but it did change the look quite noticeably in front as well as rear.


pavo_roddy MSG #521, 02-12-2007 08:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


front track as in tread width? or fender width? In eather case, no, I like it just fine the way it is now. the widebody kit may not sound like much of an increase, but it did change the look quite noticeably in front as well as rear.



HI all

Ya know how some kitcars require longer suspension arms to get correct fittment.... Like the 355 kits you need a front track increase of 3 inches per side of the front....... You had said that the car is 1 1/4 inches wider per side on the front, and I was curious what you mighta thought about using held motorsports front track width increasing suspension parts....... With an inch and a 1/4 each side of the front you could widen the front end with this type of suspension an inch, that's if you don't want to go with meatier tyres on the front....... Either way though I wonder which would be for better handling...... Meaty tyres or an inch track increase..........Hmmmm... I hope this answers the questions.......



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #522, 02-19-2007 09:12 AM
      The rear of a Fiero is where you want the huge tires to be.
The front needs to be in proportion to the rear to get good handling with minimal suspension tuning. With 275's in the rear, I don't think he should go bigger than 225's in front.


Russ544 MSG #523, 02-25-2007 03:50 PM
      I finally managed to get a few hours away from picking out kitchen cabinets and toilet seats long enough to work on the car a bit today. over the past couple weeks I've had time to mull over the blown ECM fuse issue and had come to the conclusion that I must have the 0-2 sensor wired wrong. it was the only thing I was guesing about when I wired everything up, so first thing I did today was to just unplug the 0-2 and see if the fuse blew when I turned the key on. it didn't so I twisted the key and VIOLA it fired up. not wanting to gas myself at this stage of the game I only ran it for a minute or two inside the garage but it sure sounds good. the idle was up due to the cold start, but it was idling smoother than it EVER did with the Holly computer. I'll get the 0-2 wireing figured out, and if it ever warms up and dries out around here I'll take er for a spin and see how it REALLY runs

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 02-25-2007).]

Russ544 MSG #524, 02-25-2007 07:06 PM
      Well.... I took the easy way out and used the Holly 3 wire 0-2 sensor. by splicing on the Caddy plug to the Holly 0-2 I was able to just plug it into the wire harness connector I already had. It's been snowing for a wile today, but enough rain has come down with it that the roads are clear at the moment so I snuck out and took a little test drive. WOW. this thing runs like a Caddilac . it runs much smoother and quieter now in both closed loop and open loop. the idle is smooth as silk and the hesitation off idle is totally gone. Ryans ECU really did make this a whole new experience to drive. and obviously that's a good thing I can't wait for a sunny day so I can really get out and thrash the thing, but I sure don't see any surprises coming up.

Thanks Ryan. you da man

Russ

PS: anybody want to buy a low milage Holly Commander setup


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #525, 02-25-2007 07:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

Well.... I took the easy way out and used the Holly 3 wire 0-2 sensor. by splicing on the Caddy plug to the Holly 0-2 I was able to just plug it into the wire harness connector I already had. It's been snowing for a wile today, but enough rain has come down with it that the roads are clear at the moment so I snuck out and took a little test drive. WOW. this thing runs like a Caddilac . it runs much smoother and quieter now in both closed loop and open loop. the idle is smooth as silk and the hesitation off idle is totally gone. Ryans ECU really did make this a whole new experience to drive. and obviously that's a good thing I can't wait for a sunny day so I can really get out and thrash the thing, but I sure don't see any surprises coming up.

Thanks Ryan. you da man

Russ

PS: anybody want to buy a low milage Holly Commander setup


Glad to hear it's working well for ya', every time I hear of one of Ryan's systems coming to life I get more exited about mine.

Joe



Russ544 MSG #526, 02-26-2007 01:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:


Glad to hear it's working well for ya', every time I hear of one of Ryan's systems coming to life I get more exited about mine.

Joe


Yup. you'll love the "plug and play" aspect of Ryans setup. of course the down side would be if you wanted to put in bigger cams or other mods to the engine at a later date, but for the stock motor, this really is the cats meow.
glad to see you getting your N* put together. looks like you're doing a really clean install. I like that.

Cheers,
Russ


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #527, 02-26-2007 02:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


Yup. you'll love the "plug and play" aspect of Ryans setup. of course the down side would be if you wanted to put in bigger cams or other mods to the engine at a later date, but for the stock motor, this really is the cats meow.
glad to see you getting your N* put together. looks like you're doing a really clean install. I like that.

Cheers,
Russ


Thanks. Joe



motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #528, 03-18-2007 07:53 AM
      Russ, have you had a chance to run it hard yet?

Joe


Russ544 MSG #529, 03-25-2007 09:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:

Russ, have you had a chance to run it hard yet?

Joe


Sorry Joe, but no, I haven't had the IMSA out of the garage since the latest test drive a couple weeks ago. the weather has improved here, but that mostly just meant that we could finally pour cement and set blocks for the new house. I'll try to get the car out next weekend and report a little more in-depth on how Ryans computer system does. it sure felt strong on the mile & 1/2 drive I did take however.



Russ


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #530, 03-25-2007 11:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


Sorry Joe, but no, I haven't had the IMSA out of the garage since the latest test drive a couple weeks ago. the weather has improved here, but that mostly just meant that we could finally pour cement and set blocks for the new house. I'll try to get the car out next weekend and report a little more in-depth on how Ryans computer system does. it sure felt strong on the mile & 1/2 drive I did take however.



Russ


I just hate it when work gets in the way of fun, it looks like youv'e got a good start on a new house. Good luck with that.

Joe



Russ544 MSG #531, 05-05-2007 11:54 PM
      just a bump out of archive land. I've been a bit busy to work on the car for a wile, but my other project is coming along nicely
Russ



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #532, 05-06-2007 09:05 AM
      Looking very nice! Hmmm, where is the shop going to be?

Russ544 MSG #533, 05-06-2007 12:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Looking very nice! Hmmm, where is the shop going to be?


It's in the same place it's always been just out of frame to the right is a 36x24' shop with 4 car carport off one side (the wife has her own freestanding carport for her Miata cause "mine" is full of Fieros )

glad to see you getting back to work on your N* project BTW. better get er done soon before it's 110* in the shade down there.

Cheers,
Russ


Russ544 MSG #534, 07-06-2007 08:30 PM
      dang. where is the summer going? I already need a bump before the Archives catch up to me.
I pooched a disk in my back a week ago and will be going in for an MRI on Wed to see if I'll ever be able to get in a Fiero again (I'm voting yes, though it may be a wile).
The IMSA will be back in the news before too long............. I hope.

Russ


Icelander (whit@dubhlinn.com) MSG #535, 07-06-2007 11:20 PM
      Dang! That sucks! I hope that you get better soon.

My bet is that you hosed your back working on the house didn't you?

Good luck and post some picks when you can.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #536, 07-07-2007 12:33 AM
      Been dealing with the lower back thing since I was rear-ended by a 3/4ton Ford back in 1998. It seems way worse than it is for about a week then things get better. I have to do stretching every morning to help make sure it does not happen as often as it used to. Sorry to hear about your back, this is not a fun club to join....

Daredevil05 MSG #537, 09-09-2007 11:11 AM
      BUMP

Russ544 MSG #538, 09-11-2007 02:22 PM
      I'm back! the back is doing surprisingly well after a regeim of drugs and pt. I was expecting surgury this time, but it looks like that can wait a wile longer after all. The house is esentially done now also, so play time can't be too far away

Does anyone know of a reputable shop that can cut apart an aluminum rim and change the offset?? preferably on the left coast to ease the shipping costs. I want to give the front rims some more negative to get the handling better, and reduce the kick.

Russ


Russ544 MSG #539, 10-06-2007 08:10 PM
      You'd think that a person who enjoys fabrication projects as much as I do would really enjoy building a new house.......... I don't
EVER want to build another house. that was WAY to much stress for an old man like me I spent all of last weekend cleaning up sawdust and re-organizing my shop so I could work on cars in there again. during last week I began ordering parts for a couple projects I have in mind, and today I finally was able to actually get my hands dirty for the first time in months. It felt GREAT. a couple of my upcoming projects involve my SBC car, but I'll start another thread on that when the time comes. in the meantime, I received a new 3 core radiator from Archie on Thursday, so that went into the IMSA today. The stock radiator that was in the car worked pretty well, but didn't have hardly any reserve capacity. on the occasions when the car got up to the 220* - 225* range, it took a very long time to cool it back down again. most times it just stayed there until it was shut down for a wile. 225* isn't too hot for this motor, but I prefer to keep it in the 200* - 210* range
The increased capacity is pretty evident when you place it side by side to a stocker:



Installation is very straightforward, but I did grind out the opening around the fill neck in the support bracket, as it just kisses the radiator tank in the lower corners of the opening.


I suspect it would have been fine as is, but I feel more comfortable after giving it some wiggle room.


After topping off the radiator again I went for a little test spin. I did manage to get it up to 220* after sittling in traffic for a wile, but as soon as things got moving again it cooled down right back down again in less than 1/2 mile. a very worthwile afternoon project I think.

By next weekend I expect to have a new pair of rims and tires for the front of this car. I never did find anyone willing to change the offset of the Racelines for me, so I settled on buying a new pair of 17" x 7" Falkin Torque 5 (gunmetal) rims with 215-45-17 Falkin FK 452 tires. they have a similar look as the Racelines and should work out better for me. The front tires hang out a bit, and since the car was lowered, the front tires tend to kiss the fender lips during "spirited" driving. that and the offset isn't really very good for this car anyway, which I feel is hurting the handling somewhat. I'll have to drill the Vette rotors for the 5x100 bolt pattern, but that's no biggie.

after the IMSA is squared away again, I plan to pull the motor from my SBC car and do some "re-formatting" of it's power band. a new cam is going in, and I'll be trashing the Edelbrock carb in favor of a Demon.

I love grease
Russ544


Russ544 MSG #540, 10-06-2007 10:33 PM
      BTW. Edge Racing has Falkin wheels and tires, as well as select other brands, on sale for some very good priices right now. ck it out: http://www.edgeracing.com/wheels/falken_wheel/

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-06-2007).]

motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #541, 10-06-2007 11:00 PM
      Russ; I too have built my own home and garage and would rather build cars and race motocross. Of course I'd rather get a root canal than build another house, the pain would be over a lot sooner ( ha ha ) oh ya I hate drywall, the dust gets into everything.

btw cool rims, I'll bet those look nice on the IMSA!

Cheers Beers N Gearz. Joe


Russ544 MSG #542, 10-11-2007 10:30 PM
      As promised, the wheels and tires showed up today via UPS, so when I got home from work I set about removing the wheel studs and re-installing them in the 5x100 pattern. I had already redrilled the rotors, wile at work the other day, so it was pretty much a bolt on from there. I guess I'll get used to the new look, but this new setup does hide the tires a bit more than I'd like. the 1" narrower rim, 1/4" smaller diameter tire and slightly (1/4"?) different offset all add up. My slight disappointment in the look was MORE than made up for in the driving impression however, as I went for a 10 mile "test drive". I'm not sure if I should attribute it to the better offset of the rims, the stickier tire, or what, but it sure is a lot more fun to toss around corners now . there was just enough "dew" on the roads to make the drive exciting, but I never felt like I didn't have good control over it. a much more........... "balanced" feel than before.
I'll get a pic of the new wheels posted tomorrow before I get to work on the "SE350". I pulled it into the shop and put the IMSA in the carport already, so I'll be ready to rock first thing in the morning.

Russ544


Russ544 MSG #543, 10-12-2007 12:27 PM
      here's a pic of the Raceline GT wheels 225 - 45 - 17 on 8" rim:



and the new Falkin wheels and tires 215 - 45 - 17 on 7" rim:



The Falkin is a 40 mm offset, but I don't know what the Raceline is. they sell by backspacing only. I figured the offset out when I first put them on, but have since forgotten. I think I figured about 10 mm difference over stock, but I need to check again. I'm really amazed at the handling difference and road feel now, but like I said, that could be partially due to the tires. the Zexius tires weren't the best handling tire I've ever used.

Russ544

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-12-2007).]

Russ544 MSG #544, 12-03-2007 07:33 PM
      beam me up Scottie.
I've been working on the ITB injection setup over yonder, so I'll keep this thread active in case I need to add an install page.

edit: I was concerned that no-one would be interested in following along on this build when I first started it back in 04'. I see it has well over 40,000 hits since then, so I guess people have been interested after all

thanks,
Russ544

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-03-2007).]

midnightcarving (midnightcarving@optonline.net) MSG #545, 12-05-2007 10:40 PM
      russ i'm a new member, and a new fiero owner, but in browsing the pages for dash modifications, i saw yours and i have to give it credit for the best one i've ever seen. Most of the dash conversions on the site dont match the car at all, most are very curvy and modern looking. I think in reality that they are poorly designed, you have to consider what its going into, and its going into an older car, with older styling, and that modern interior does not match the rest of the car.

having said that, your dash is a perfect match, it matches the styling of the car perfectly and gives it an awesome performance feel.

i think i'm going to duplicate it to some extent for my 86, but i think i'm going to make mine either red to match my existing painted back plates, or redo them all with a wood veneer.


Russ544 MSG #546, 02-22-2008 11:08 PM
      is spring here yet?
bump.


What about Bob (rherriges@sbcglobal.net) MSG #547, 04-02-2008 06:06 PM
      It's spring somewhere. A bump to keep this alive for when I can finally start restoring mine.



Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #548, 05-03-2008 12:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

I can see a light at the end of the tunnel at work now, so I took a day off today and puttered on the car a bit.
I cheated the engine over to the left a tad too much when I built my sbc car and had a small problem with the cv joint bottoming out under acceleration. it wouldn't take long to destroy an axle if this were allowed to continue, so I figured out a way to shorten the left axle by about 5/8" without having custom axles made up. Now that I'm building this Northstar project, that lesson \has come in handy, as the 88 chassis is even tighter than the earlier models and the Northstar needs every bit of "cheating" you can get away with to place the engine further to the left and out of reach of the right hand shock tower. A 1/2" or so can easily be taken up by the cv joint, but more than that requires some alterations to the LH axle.
What I did was to disassemble the left axle and cut (grind) new snap ring grooves as far in on each end of the splines as possible. this ends up being just over 1/4" on each end. with the new grooves cut, the ends of the axle can be shortened by a like amount which gives the tripot about 5/8" more clearance before it bottoms out in it's housing.
I did some measuring today and it appears that I'll be able to get away without any cutting of the shock tower at all. I may have to remove a small piece of the side of the tower cap, just to give a little wiggle room for the cyl head, but that's about it.

stock axle compared to modified.


I received an invoice from CHRF on Friday for the flywheel, clutch, computer and wiring harness, so I expect to see brown on monday or tues with a box of toys in tow. hang on tight... here we go

Russ


Russ, how did you grind new grooves on the axle? Did you use a lathe and perhaps a grinder? Also what did you use to cut the ends off?

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 05-03-2008).]

Russ544 MSG #549, 06-07-2008 04:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:


Russ, how did you grind new grooves on the axle? Did you use a lathe and perhaps a grinder? Also what did you use to cut the ends off?



Sorry Eric, but I haven't had much time to get on the Feiro board lately, so I missed this question until today.
The grooves were ground in the axle wile it was chucked in my lathe, but of course the axle is way to hard to cut with normal tooling, so I jury rigged a mount to hold a cheepy air die grinder, with a narrow cuttoff wheel in it, to the lathe tool holder. as the axle turns in the lathe I could possition the die grinder precisly where it was needed to grind the groove. To cut off the axle I just used my chop saw with an abrasive wheel.

Cheers,
Russ


Russ544 MSG #550, 09-27-2008 12:14 PM
      I decided to sell this car for real this time. it's in the mall, and will soon be on Craigslist. it's listed at 12K, so even a Fiero person can't complain about that price

Cheers,
Russ


Russ544 MSG #551, 11-20-2008 06:18 PM
      ^^ stayin alive ^^

Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #552, 11-20-2008 09:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

^^ stayin alive ^^

Russ


Hmmm, I wonder what is next?


Russ544 MSG #553, 07-08-2009 12:30 PM
      I want to make sure credit is given, and thanks to the efforts of Jefrysuko, this thread will remain a viable tool for future IMSA builders. I'm at a point where I need the server space where the photos are placed, and was about to remove them from the IMSA thread. Jefrysuko steped up to the plate and offered to help me get them transfered to the PFF server, and that process is in the works as we speak. so if you're reading this thread 10 years from now, give credit where credit is due.

Russ544


Adam1988 (adamwold@hotmail.com) MSG #554, 05-11-2010 03:37 PM
      Russ would you be interested in taking on another v8 project?

troyboy (mrtroyboy69@yahoo.com) MSG #555, 09-14-2010 06:44 PM
      A IMSA bump

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #556, 02-06-2018 11:55 PM
      2010?
What is going on here?


ChanningB (cballew69@gmail.com) MSG #557, 06-09-2019 06:08 PM
      Got an 88 GT a couple of months ago . It's in great shape! Been considering an engine swap for more powerful launches What would yall say is the best engine and tranny to get? (Currently has 5 speed) Thanks in advance for yalls input! 😀

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #558, 06-10-2019 10:52 AM
      I’m pretty sure Russ sold his Fiero years ago and moved on to hotrods.

Charlie


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #559, 06-10-2019 10:55 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ChanningB:

Got an 88 GT a couple of months ago . It's in great shape! Been considering an engine swap for more powerful launches What would yall say is the best engine and tranny to get? (Currently has 5 speed) Thanks in advance for yalls input! 😀

I’m not up to speed on the current “best” engine swaps for the Fiero but I imagine if your looking for powerful launches I’m thinking LS series and an automatic trans. I’m sure others with more know how will be more specific.

Charlie




Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #560, 06-11-2019 11:48 AM
      This is probably not the bestest thread for that discussion either... unless Russ sold ChanningB the car he wrote this thread about.