The Turbo Super Duty Build.
Topic started by: FastIndyFiero, Date: 09-27-2004 06:50 PM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000020.html


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #1, 09-27-2004 06:50 PM
      Yeah, I'm finally getting around to starting my build thread. Wit the completion of my short block closing in, I decided it's time to give PFF a good over-all view of where I'm going with this. Rather than one overwhelming first post, I'll be posting info and pics in easier to handle chunks.

The start was simple enough, a FS advertisement two and a half years ago in the classifieds of the Wichita newspaper. At the time, I couldn't tell you what a Fiero looked like, but it's name popped out in my head for one reason or another. I went to look at it, and, (much like it is now) it was in rough shape. The interior wasn't in great shape (still isn't), the seats are torn badly in places.

The engine? Well, it didn't even look this good:

That intake is how I came to be involved with the Super Duty 4 cyl. Research trying to find out where it came from led in to more study about the entire Super Duty program.

About one year ago, I discovered that the head on the modified Iron Duke posted above was cracked. I then planned to replace it with either a new SD4 head, or swap in a 3.9, Northstar, or 3800SC. In about November I also discovered that my block was bad, so the engine came out for the last time, last looking like this:

Next post, the start of the SD4.

Nate Engel



bryson MSG #2, 09-27-2004 09:14 PM
      Looks good -- keep it coming!
--Bryson



DPWood (dpwood@amtelecom.net) MSG #3, 09-29-2004 09:01 AM
      Definitly keep this coming.

David



Kento (kento@triad.rr.com) MSG #4, 09-29-2004 10:10 AM
      COOL little x's


Might want to find a different host for the pictures.


Kohburn MSG #5, 09-29-2004 10:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Kento:

COOL little x's

must be on your end - they all work for me


Kento (kento@triad.rr.com) MSG #6, 09-29-2004 10:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Kohburn:


must be on your end - they all work for me

Could be, Jeane may be playing hell on the internet in this area still even though she is gone.

TaurusThug (roadconephoto@gmail.com) MSG #7, 09-29-2004 02:08 PM
      what about the rest of the story???

btw the pics worked fine for me.. i think they are racist against people who gloat about it being nice and warm in the winter



Kento (kento@triad.rr.com) MSG #8, 09-29-2004 02:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TaurusThug:

what about the rest of the story???

btw the pics worked fine for me.. i think they are racist against people who gloat about it being nice and warm in the winter

Yes, but we have been drowning and in the dark lately.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #9, 09-29-2004 03:23 PM
      Rest of the story? That was it...

Okay, before I go into the details of my SD build I'll point out a couple pictures of weak areas on the stock Iron Duke, for those curious. I personally have no love for the Iron Duke, but the Super Duty is a different case.

First off, the block itself:

It has thin main bulkheads, at about .3-.4" in most places.

It has thin block walls also:

That's a reading of about .290". For a main wall on a block? Yuck.

And that thing GM called a crank? Well, I don't have much to say about it other than it's a POS.

HAD to go.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #10, 09-29-2004 03:46 PM
      Rods?
This images is larger than 100K. Click to view.

Erm, no thanks, I'll take my chances with some SBC rods.

If I had a picture of my old ported head I would point out that it had like a .25" crack in it. I would also point out that it isn't good from a performance standpoint. You say, "Nate, why all the negativity about the Duke?". Bottom line, it's not a performance engine, or really even upgradable to any kind of acceptable performance.

Anyway, moving on, past the Iron Duke:

That's the starting point for everything to come, a Pontiac Super Duty block. Obviously, it's not so hard to tell if you have one. If you're not sure, you probably don't, beings as how they never came off of the production line in any vehicle.

As you can see, everything that bears a load is reinforced with extra thickness. There are even two extra bearing journals for the camshaft. Installed are Torrington roller needle bearings.


CaddyRob (coldskies@cogeco.ca) MSG #11, 09-29-2004 08:12 PM
      Lookin at your main Caps, I was wondering.. arnt these engines pretty much a 307 with half the cylinders lopped off.. or something like that.. I was wondering can you get some SBC splayed Caps installed.. would add even more reliability.. since I know your Turboing... the more solid the bottom end the better right?

82-T/A [At Work] MSG #12, 09-29-2004 08:25 PM
      As I understand, it's a Pontiac 301 cut in half, not an Olds, Buick, or Chevy block.



baldlobo MSG #13, 09-29-2004 10:25 PM
      could you measure what you measured on the iron duke as on the super duty

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #14, 09-30-2004 12:11 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by baldlobo:

could you measure what you measured on the iron duke as on the super duty

Yes, that same block wall measurement was around .60". Consequently, the SD block is heavier, but well worth the added weight. On the main bulkheads you will find thicknesses of around .75". It is very beefy.

I actually have looked for 4-bolt main caps somewhat for this motor. These stock SD4 caps are very strong ductile iron, and when I talked to Kansas Racing Products about them they said that there haven't been any problems with them.

Btw, Cam For Sale

More tomorrow.
Nate


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #15, 10-01-2004 12:40 AM
     

Now THAT'S what a crank is supposed to look like. I'm upping the stroke a bit from 3.00" to 3.100" inches. With the larger 64cc head volume, I'll still be right at 8.3:1 compression, perfect for a turbo.

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #16, 10-01-2004 01:48 AM
      Doh! I guess it would help to show the car that it's going in:

No, that's not me, it's my nephew. Smiling "wasn't cool" that day.

JamesCurtis (jamie.curtis@outlook.com) MSG #17, 10-01-2004 01:50 AM
      now that's a thing of beauty, something I usually don't say referring to 4 cylinder's lol. I'm gonna be adding this one to my fav's, I've always been curious as to how a sd4 sounded, maybe i'll make it down to wichita one of these days and check it out.

James

Doug Chase MSG #18, 10-01-2004 01:10 PM
      Very nice, keep it up. A couple questions for you:

Where are you getting the Super Duty parts? Is this new stuff from KRP, or genuine GM SD stuff that you've come up with somewhere?

What's your bore size going to be?



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #19, 10-01-2004 01:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Doug Chase:

Very nice, keep it up. A couple questions for you:

Where are you getting the Super Duty parts? Is this new stuff from KRP, or genuine GM SD stuff that you've come up with somewhere?

What's your bore size going to be?

The crankshaft and connecting rods are from KRP. They often have SCAT make billet cranks for them. The crank that I got is used, but still in very, very good condition. I managed to pick it up for pennies, relatively, as the race teams were all alowed to upgrade to a larger stroke than this one. One downside: the crank has a SBC output bolt pattern. I'm probably going to put an aluminum spacer in between the engine and tranny, and have a custom flywheel made.

The block and head I just basically scrounged the country for. I'm going to try to get some better pictures of the rods before it gets assembled, but everything is it the shop now. Here's a cruddy webcam pic:

They are forged I-beam rods with 7/16" ARP hardware, rated to about 10,000 RPM. They cost over $100 a piece new from KRP. It's a pretty good upgrade.

Bore size is 4.005".

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #20, 10-01-2004 02:06 PM
      Here was my project a couple of months ago:

A quick upgrade for the brakes. I would've done the 12" Corvette brakes, but the only thing limiting me there was my wheels, 15-inchers. And I like my wheels.

This images is larger than 100K. Click to view.

Sadly enough, I don't have time or $$$ to take the rest of the suspension off and give it a good rebuild. If I did though, I think I could turn it into some kind of crazy autoX machine. Revving to 9000 RPM at 16 lbs of boost with a short first gear could be VERY interesting. I think I smell rubber...

I'm planning to gain 100 lbs at most over stock 2.5. I also have no plans to remount the A/C compressor on the SD4. I would like to keep the weight lower, but hell, my turbo weighs 30lbs by itself. Hmm, 30lbs minus 20lbs of boost. It won't be too much slower with it on there.

bryson MSG #21, 10-01-2004 03:09 PM
      Running 20lbs of boost, how much power to do look to make? I just saw the two bolt mains...how do you think they will hold up?
--Bryson


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #22, 10-01-2004 03:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bryson:

Running 20lbs of boost, how much power to do look to make? I just saw the two bolt mains...how do you think they will hold up?
--Bryson

I'm hoping that they will hold up well, lol. They are high-quality ductile iron held on by Moroso 1/2" bolts. But, I'm going to talk to KRP again and maybe try to find some 4 bolt splayed caps.

I designed a set in CAD, lol:

Does that count?

I hope for 450-475 HP at 20 lbs of boost and 8000 RPM. If it gets there, yay! If I only make it to 400hp, I won't cry.

Nate

jsmorter1 (jmorter@hotmail.com) MSG #23, 10-01-2004 05:30 PM
      I don't think you are going to get 400HP with 20lbs of boost - more like 320 would be realistic and the 2 bolt mains should hold up fine at that level

Ales (ramirez_ales@yahoo.com) MSG #24, 10-01-2004 06:17 PM
      Hi Nate,

Here its something to think about if you want to use a 2 bolt mains block with lots of boost and to produce the kind of HP you are talking about, this is a picture of a 2 bolt mains block V8 engine to show you what can be done to achieve what you want:



this picture was borrowed from the Badd-A$$ racing engines company, and this is the text that follows this picture:

2 bolt main blocks can be used for racing engines when one of our main supports are installed. You can see how it ties all of the main caps together and turns an ordinary 2 bolt main lower-end into something many times stronger than a standard 4 bolt main. These are a must for small block Fords and 2 bolt main Chevy's when using high compression, blowers and/or nitrous oxide. Our billet main supports are only available ON our engines. We do not sell them outright.


P.S. I hope this info can be helpful for you to get an idea of what can be done to make it stronger than already is right now.


Good Luck with your project ...
Ales


bryson MSG #25, 10-01-2004 07:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jsmorter1:

I don't think you are going to get 400HP with 20lbs of boost - more like 320 would be realistic and the 2 bolt mains should hold up fine at that level

Why do you think this is not realistic?
--Bryson


jsmorter1 (jmorter@hotmail.com) MSG #26, 10-01-2004 09:03 PM
      20lbs. of boost on a 2.3 liter ford is goood for about 220 hp on a stock engine, on a fully prepped engine maybe 300 to 320 hp

RWDPLZ MSG #27, 10-01-2004 09:50 PM
      Finally the build thread, with my favorite engine! Keep it up! If you find a cheap source of SD4 parts, let me know For now I'd be happy with the SD head and holley intake and TBI on my stock duke; until I can afford to get the block, crank, and other parts.

The Punisher (@hotmail.com) MSG #28, 10-01-2004 10:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jsmorter1:

20lbs. of boost on a 2.3 liter ford is goood for about 220 hp on a stock engine, on a fully prepped engine maybe 300 to 320 hp


You are an absolute idiot.
You do realize those turbo engines from the factory were rated at 190 hp from the factory(pending on model) with max boost being around 11 psi set from the factory. A boost controller, a intake DP and exh on those ford 2.3 motors would put them well over 300 hp with 20 psi. However the small t3 that is on there doesnt' do too well at 20 psi. Might as well swap to a larger turbo by that time.

I think Indiyfieros biggest prob is getting it tuned right with a carb setup. But tehn again I think he is running some sort of EFI setup. And the carb is just to let air by through with the injectors in the intake mani. I might be wrong though.

SH

jsmorter1 (jmorter@hotmail.com) MSG #29, 10-01-2004 11:33 PM
      hey Mr Punisher - who you calling an idiot? you know me about as well as you know ford 2.3 turbo motors - do you know who Joe Morgan is? Here is a Link to his 400HP 2.3 turbo http://www.turboford.org/faq/joe.shtml if you can read you will notice he is running 17 psi of boost with a 90 HP shot of nitrous to achieve that 400 HP. And at this link http://www.merkurencyclopedia.com/Dyno_results/dyno_shootout14.html ther are several dyno sheets from 2.3 turbos running 20+ psi of boost and none of them making 400 HP. As far as ford 2.3 turbo motors having only 11psi of boost I suggest you read up on them a little more. My totally stock 88 turbo coupe motor would hit 14-15 psi of boost and it was making about 200 flywheel horsepower. Turning up the boost to 18 psi took about 2 tenths off my quarter mile time. I don't think turning it up to 20 would have gotten me 400 hp.

The Punisher (@hotmail.com) MSG #30, 10-02-2004 12:58 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jsmorter1:

hey Mr Punisher - who you calling an idiot?

You

 
quote
do you know who Joe Morgan is?

No and neither do I care

 
quote
My totally stock 88 turbo coupe motor would hit 14-15 psi of boost and it was making about 200 flywheel horsepower. Turning up the boost to 18 psi took about 2 tenths off my quarter mile time. I don't think turning it up to 20 would have gotten me 400 hp.

Like I said some had 190 hp crank from the factory. Turning up the boost 5 psi will yeild more then 30 hp. I also stated intake DP and exh as mods as well. 20 psi is too much boost on that tiny T3 which is why I said its better to just go bigger at that point

And I never stated anywhere anything about 400 hp. Which tells me you can't read. Which furthers my argument about you being an idiot. See those of us that aren't idiots can read and you prove nicely that you can't.

Thread hijack. Thats it for me here. Back on topic.



bryson MSG #31, 10-02-2004 01:17 AM
      http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/040182-8.html With the new header I put on and with a new intake I think I can push over 425 at 21psi
--Bryson


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #32, 10-02-2004 04:18 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bryson:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/040182-8.html With the new header I put on and with a new intake I think I can push over 425 at 21psi
--Bryson


ttt

For those who doubt, that's why I think I can hit at least 400 HP. This is not a production motor. It is not meant for a production car. It is
a race motor being put into a street car. I am making absolutely NO comprises as far as how I am building this. I also understand that you can't just dump enough money into something and think it'll work if it's not made right to begin with. This is not a 2.3l Ford. This is a 2.6L Super Duty. Remember the DOHC Cosworth Super Duties? Those were naturally aspirated engines cranking out almost 500hp.

I will hit at least 400hp, and then some.


Ported and polished aluminum SD4 head, 2.02" intake 1.78" exhaust valves, 5 angle valve job. Manley Race-Flo valves.


Diamond Racing forged pistons (not pictured are plasma-moly rings), KRP forged 6.0" rods.


Garrett GT35 turbo. On right is my old T3/T4.


I will be using EFI, tuned port style, with an injector per cylinder. I will also use an LS1 throttle body. I had sitting an LT1 TB, but I don't think it's gonna cut it.


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #33, 10-02-2004 10:35 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jsmorter1:
Turning up the boost to 18 psi took about 2 tenths off my quarter mile time. I don't think turning it up to 20 would have gotten me 400 hp.

18 psi on a T3? That's not a great way to make power...

What was your compressor outlet temp? 350 degrees? Get a T3/T4. You'll run way faster on the same boost.




jsmorter1 (jmorter@hotmail.com) MSG #34, 10-02-2004 11:11 AM
      The 87 - 88 turbo coupes did not have the t3, they had IHI turbos which were good for about 18lbs of boost, they were also intercooled which did bring the temps down. On a ported and polished motor with a 3 inch downpipe they were capable of about 280 hp which is coincidently about what the stock injectors were good for. I had this in an 85 coupe that weighed 2640. With a 3.55 rear gear and a T5 tranny it was good for 14.3 to 14.5 quarter mile times at dragway 42. unfortunately they call them rustangs for a good reason so I now have an 88 fiero for a toy and traded the rustang for a pearl white paint job on the fiero. Eventually it will have a boosted ecotec after the suspension and other things are taken care of.

bryson MSG #35, 10-02-2004 12:11 PM
      A GT35 should put your at 400+ to the wheels easily. Especially with a little larger displacement (2.6L), it should be plenty streetable. What is the stroke and redline of that engine? I'm just tyring to get an idea of piston speeds in your engine. Also, the GT35 will stay efficient way up to over 30psi, if you ever want to make one beautiful dyno run. What ECU are you planning on using? That looks like it's gonna be one hell of a motor. Are you makign your own header? Best of luck on your project!
--Bryson


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #36, 10-02-2004 04:28 PM
      Stroke is 3.100". The limiting factor on the redline are the piston rings. At 10,000 RPM it'll be around 86 fps. I think I'll limit it to 9000, that'll be around where the rings will probably start to flutter. I know of other drag racers using the SCAT crank running higher strokes and regularly hitting 12000rpm. Apparently the SCAT SD cranks have yet to suffer a failure from anything except for oil loss.

I'll design my own equal length turbo header, yes, but I'm not going to trust myself to weld it, lol. I'll be using a homebrew MegaSquirt ECU.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #37, 10-04-2004 12:32 AM
     

Howard_Sacks (@hotmail.com) MSG #38, 10-04-2004 12:49 AM
      Powerlevels and PSI vary from turbo to turbo. SO turbo A could make 300 horse@15psi and turbo B could make 500 horse@15psi on the same motor.

The turbo he has is plenty capable of making 400 horse. It will just make it in the neighborhood of 6k rpm.

 
quote
Originally posted by jsmorter1:

hey Mr Punisher - who you calling an idiot? you know me about as well as you know ford 2.3 turbo motors - do you know who Joe Morgan is? Here is a Link to his 400HP 2.3 turbo http://www.turboford.org/faq/joe.shtml if you can read you will notice he is running 17 psi of boost with a 90 HP shot of nitrous to achieve that 400 HP. And at this link http://www.merkurencyclopedia.com/Dyno_results/dyno_shootout14.html ther are several dyno sheets from 2.3 turbos running 20+ psi of boost and none of them making 400 HP. As far as ford 2.3 turbo motors having only 11psi of boost I suggest you read up on them a little more. My totally stock 88 turbo coupe motor would hit 14-15 psi of boost and it was making about 200 flywheel horsepower. Turning up the boost to 18 psi took about 2 tenths off my quarter mile time. I don't think turning it up to 20 would have gotten me 400 hp.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #39, 10-05-2004 01:14 AM
     

cancerkazoo (plugers@yahoo.com) MSG #40, 10-05-2004 09:04 AM
      With the N/A DOHC kit on the SD you could choose cams to make 370hp.

Steve

Kohburn MSG #41, 10-05-2004 09:11 AM
      there is a DOHC kit for the SD4 block?

$$,$$$ i'm sure...



cancerkazoo (plugers@yahoo.com) MSG #42, 10-05-2004 09:28 AM
      Moved to page 2 for better visibility

 
quote
With the N/A DOHC kit on the SD you could choose cams to make 370hp.

Steve

I can scan the rest of the article if anyone wants it.

[This message has been edited by cancerkazoo (edited 10-05-2004).]

Kohburn MSG #43, 10-05-2004 10:51 AM
      yeah a full page at high res would be nice..



cancerkazoo (plugers@yahoo.com) MSG #44, 10-05-2004 01:14 PM
      2+ MB pic:

This images is larger than 100K. Click to view.


Steve


TaurusThug (roadconephoto@gmail.com) MSG #45, 10-05-2004 01:22 PM
      OMFG your gonna boost 20psi w/ a GT35??? that CRAZY... how are you going to keep it from lifting the head off the block? i know a guy w/ a turbo integra making about 450 at the ground that was running a T4 and lifted the head a bit and it started to let coolant in when he would boost.



Kohburn MSG #46, 10-05-2004 01:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cancerkazoo:

2+ MB pic:
This images is larger than 100K. Click to view.
Steve

(where is page 2?)

man if they had just produced those instead of using the crappy 2.8 .. the fiero would be ruling the streets

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 10-05-2004).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #47, 10-05-2004 02:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TaurusThug:

OMFG your gonna boost 20psi w/ a GT35??? that CRAZY... how are you going to keep it from lifting the head off the block? i know a guy w/ a turbo integra making about 450 at the ground that was running a T4 and lifted the head a bit and it started to let coolant in when he would boost.

10 1/2" ARP studs.

cancerkazoo (plugers@yahoo.com) MSG #48, 10-05-2004 03:41 PM
      Page 2:

This images is larger than 100K. Click to view.

And pages 3 & 4:

This images is larger than 100K. Click to view.

Steve

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #49, 10-05-2004 07:28 PM
      What magazine is that from?


RWDPLZ MSG #50, 10-05-2004 08:24 PM
      Yeah I want that DOHC kit for my SD4 when I get it

I was running some parts numbers through GM Parts Direct, and ran the Part # on the Superduty Engine Build Package (PN 10031328) and it came up as they still have it! For $114.81 Did you use this in your buildup? And what else would you need to complete the build-up, beside the block, head, and intake and exhaust manifolds?

Just type the PN in the search field)
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/



RWDPLZ MSG #51, 10-05-2004 08:43 PM
      A section for Pontiac V8's and Superduty Fours!

http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/perfpartsjsp/subcategory.jsp?cat=9275ion=ep

Is the head in there the same one used back in the 80's, will it bolt up to the older (or KRP's ) SD4 block? Or the holley intake?

In one part they say: "General Motors Service Parts no longer offers this super duty block, but Kansas Racing has been licensed to manufacture and sell this style four-cylinder block. Contact: Kansas Racing Products at 785-922-6644"

And the intake manifold that looks like Holley's?
"10038470 Intake Manifold (4V)
Your Super Duty engine will breathe deeply with this single-plane aluminum intake manifold. It mounts a single standard flange Holley four-barrel carburetor. Special runner cross-sections optimize flow to the end cylinders. Its tuned runners are engineered to work with the ports in Pontiac Super Duty cylinder heads"

It looks like they have TWO heads:
10045437 Cylinder Head
10049801 Super Duty Four High Port Special Aluminum Cylinder Head

But they don't list ANY prices?! They've got almost everything I've been looking for! I'm guessing the prices will be the only thing holding me back I wonder if you can email them about the pricing?

Any thoughts on these parts?


OOH I found the pricing on a few of the parts here:
http://www.flatlanderracing.com/gmpon.html

[This message has been edited by RWDPLZ (edited 10-05-2004).]

cancerkazoo (plugers@yahoo.com) MSG #52, 10-05-2004 09:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

What magazine is that from?


October 87 Hot Rod

Steve

Same issue with the yellow and black notchback SD car that was at the 20th. I'm not sure if they still had the SD in it then though (@ the 20th). I can scan those pages too.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #53, 10-06-2004 01:21 AM
     
code:

Item GM Part No. Price, GM parts Direct Status
(unless noted)
HD Distributor # 10037373 $297.30 [x]
SD Head # 10045437 [ ]
Stock Head # 10022373 [x]
SD Valve Cover # 10031327 $97.95 (Summit) [ ]

SD Intake # 10034870 $298.00(Flatlander) [x]
Brodix SD Head # 10038433 $339.47 [x]
SD Intake Valve # 10031339 $74.98 [ ]
SD Exhaust Valve # 10031325 $71.76 [ ]
SD Intake Gasket # FPP-12381 $19.69 (Summit) [ ]
# 12371032
SD Exhaust Gasket # FPP-1441 $20.99 (Summit) [ ]
SD Head Gasket # 10038952 $30.49 [ ]

SD Valve Springs (350) # 3911068 $38.91 [ ]
SD Rocker Arms # 5723551 $70.18 [ ]
SD Rocker Studs # 3921912 $28.15 [ ]

SD Block # 10027633 $$$$$$
SD Crank # 10027779
SD Build Kit # 10031328


That's a list I made myself some time ago. I'll clarify prices and availabilty of some of those items tomorrow. Enjoy

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 10-06-2004).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #54, 10-06-2004 01:40 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:

A section for Pontiac V8's and Superduty Fours!

http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/perfpartsjsp/subcategory.jsp?cat=9275ion=ep

Is the head in there the same one used back in the 80's, will it bolt up to the older (or KRP's ) SD4 block? Or the holley intake?

In one part they say: "General Motors Service Parts no longer offers this super duty block, but Kansas Racing has been licensed to manufacture and sell this style four-cylinder block. Contact: Kansas Racing Products at 785-922-6644"

And the intake manifold that looks like Holley's?
"10038470 Intake Manifold (4V)
Your Super Duty engine will breathe deeply with this single-plane aluminum intake manifold. It mounts a single standard flange Holley four-barrel carburetor. Special runner cross-sections optimize flow to the end cylinders. Its tuned runners are engineered to work with the ports in Pontiac Super Duty cylinder heads"

It looks like they have TWO heads:
10045437 Cylinder Head
10049801 Super Duty Four High Port Special Aluminum Cylinder Head

But they don't list ANY prices?! They've got almost everything I've been looking for! I'm guessing the prices will be the only thing holding me back I wonder if you can email them about the pricing?

Any thoughts on these parts?


OOH I found the pricing on a few of the parts here:
http://www.flatlanderracing.com/gmpon.html

There was an earlier version head that required more prep work. The new (current, I guess you could say) version came out almost immediately following, in 1984. But yes, the 437 will bolt up to the block/intake/ etc. At this point, I believe KRP is focusing on making blocks compatible with the SBC heads. I would love to have a KRP block, though . Having seen one in person, I can tell you taht they are superior to even the Pontiac SD blocks. That being said, there's only one Pontiac SD block, I don't believe it went through any changes during its production.

Dropzone (quack@adams.net) MSG #55, 10-06-2004 08:20 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TaurusThug:

OMFG your gonna boost 20psi w/ a GT35??? that CRAZY... how are you going to keep it from lifting the head off the block? i know a guy w/ a turbo integra making about 450 at the ground that was running a T4 and lifted the head a bit and it started to let coolant in when he would boost.

Don'tcha like it how people compare engines like apples to oranges? Following the thread, first it was the 2.3l FORD turbo engine and now it's an INTEGRA engine. After reading the first page on the SD by John Baechtel, it seems this engine will pretty much survive anything. Granted, 20psi is excessive, but I believe it'll fare better than a run-of-the-mill 1.8l Integra POS.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #56, 10-06-2004 08:39 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:

Yeah I want that DOHC kit for my SD4 when I get it

I was running some parts numbers through GM Parts Direct, and ran the Part # on the Superduty Engine Build Package (PN 10031328) and it came up as they still have it! For $114.81 Did you use this in your buildup? And what else would you need to complete the build-up, beside the block, head, and intake and exhaust manifolds?

Just type the PN in the search field)
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/

Almost nothing.

Basically, all of the engine fasteners and the waterpump is included with this, except for head bolts and main bolts, if I remember right. I'll check later today, I have the darn thing in my basement. I'll scan the package list maybe.

Kohburn MSG #57, 10-06-2004 09:00 AM
      a 3.0L DOHC supderduty 4 build would be amazing --- but so cost prohibative..

anyone know the weigh of a complete SD4 engine?

chester (dirtyratracing@gmail.com) MSG #58, 10-06-2004 09:08 AM
      I looked into the dual overhead cam head for my SD Indy and ran into dead ends. It was a limited production head that was designed by Cosworth. The upgrade was expensive - around $6,000 for the setup if I'm not mistaken. I spoke to a rep at Kansas Racing Products and he basically said "Good luck finding one" The other suggestion they had if you wanted to go 4 valve per cylinder on the SD was to buy one of their blocks which is machined to fit a small block Chevy head and buy a ARAO Engineering head. http://www.araoengineering.com/Chevy/chevysmb.htm That of course is out of the question for me since I have a complete 3.3 liter SD4 built to Vanderly specs.

Nice build BTW

Rob D.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #59, 10-06-2004 02:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dropzone:

...Granted, 20psi is excessive, but I believe it'll fare better than a run-of-the-mill 1.8l Integra POS...

Excessive? Damn straight.

 
quote
Originally posted by chester:

I looked into the dual overhead cam head for my SD Indy and ran into dead ends. It was a limited production head that was designed by Cosworth. The upgrade was expensive - around $6,000 for the setup if I'm not mistaken. I spoke to a rep at Kansas Racing Products and he basically said "Good luck finding one" The other suggestion they had if you wanted to go 4 valve per cylinder on the SD was to buy one of their blocks which is machined to fit a small block Chevy head and buy a ARAO Engineering head. http://www.araoengineering.com/Chevy/chevysmb.htm That of course is out of the question for me since I have a complete 3.0 liter SD4 built to Vanderly specs.

Nice build BTW

Rob D.

Yeah, you're lucky to find more than a rumor of the DOHC head. As far as the ARAO head goes, you're looking at ALOT of custom work there. Did you talk to Gerry? I believe he mentioned to me in one of his e-mailings that he had found a couple of the Cosworth engines several years ago, but nothing now.

Thanks for the compliment.

Right now I'm looking at head gaskets. Obviously, 20 PSI is alot and I do not want ANY suprises with this engine. I'm not very excited about having the block O-ringed, either, but if that's what it takes....Anybody ever hear about Cometic gaskets? I went to their site but I couldn't really find any tech info about their gaskets, just the application listings.

Nate

Kohburn MSG #60, 10-06-2004 02:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by chester:

I looked into the dual overhead cam head for my SD Indy and ran into dead ends. It was a limited production head that was designed by Cosworth. The upgrade was expensive - around $6,000 for the setup if I'm not mistaken. I spoke to a rep at Kansas Racing Products and he basically said "Good luck finding one" The other suggestion they had if you wanted to go 4 valve per cylinder on the SD was to buy one of their blocks which is machined to fit a small block Chevy head and buy a ARAO Engineering head. http://www.araoengineering.com/Chevy/chevysmb.htm That of course is out of the question for me since I have a complete 3.0 liter SD4 built to Vanderly specs.

Nice build BTW

Rob D.

i was looking for one of those heads.. that'd be perfect.. but still out of current pricerange.. one day i think i may do it - but not today



Dropzone (quack@adams.net) MSG #61, 10-07-2004 09:29 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by chester:

I That of course is out of the question for me since I have a complete 3.0 liter SD4 built to Vanderly specs.

What are the Vanderly specs and what is the output those specs produce?



chester (dirtyratracing@gmail.com) MSG #62, 10-07-2004 09:59 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dropzone:


What are the Vanderly specs and what is the output those specs produce?

I'll post the spec sheet when I get home later tonight...



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #63, 10-07-2004 01:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by chester:


I'll post the spec sheet when I get home later tonight...

You need to fire that thing up, chester, with some video, too!

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #64, 10-07-2004 04:42 PM
     

Greddy Profec B Spec II.

chester (dirtyratracing@gmail.com) MSG #65, 10-07-2004 06:46 PM
      Is that a boost controller? Sweet...

FastIndyFiero - I have a few spec sheets for the superduty as well as parts lists and even blueprints. If you interested in these let me know and I'll scan them.

Here are the spec sheets for my SD as asked.

3.3 Liter/ 193CID
12.8:1 compression
Supposed to be a tad over 300 HP not sure about torque figures.

Rob D.

[This message has been edited by chester (edited 10-07-2004).]

chester (dirtyratracing@gmail.com) MSG #66, 10-07-2004 06:48 PM
      Heres the info on that DOHC setup.

Rob D.

chester (dirtyratracing@gmail.com) MSG #67, 10-07-2004 07:05 PM
      I also have the complete Pontiac Motorsports SD Vendor
List with contact info and SD parts list. 7 pages total.

Let me know if you need it.

[This message has been edited by chester (edited 10-07-2004).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #68, 10-07-2004 09:44 PM
      VERY sweet. It says 3.3L on the build sheet?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #69, 10-08-2004 03:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by chester:

I also have the complete Pontiac Motorsports SD Vendor
List with contact info and SD parts list. 7 pages total.

Let me know if you need it.

Cool, can you email it to me if you already have it scanned?

Nate

cancerkazoo (plugers@yahoo.com) MSG #70, 10-08-2004 06:51 AM
      That DOHC head @ 9.5-1 and some boost might hurt something. I'm guessing 400-500 hp with a 7000+ rpm limit.

[This message has been edited by cancerkazoo (edited 10-08-2004).]

chester (dirtyratracing@gmail.com) MSG #71, 10-08-2004 07:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

VERY sweet. It says 3.3L on the build sheet?

Yup I misstyped in the earlier post. It is a 3.3 liter.



chester (dirtyratracing@gmail.com) MSG #72, 10-08-2004 07:26 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:


Cool, can you email it to me if you already have it scanned?

Nate

I'll get it to you later today..

Rob D.

[This message has been edited by chester (edited 10-08-2004).]

Kohburn MSG #73, 10-08-2004 07:28 AM
      if a 3L supra engine can hit 900hp then a 3L superduty 4 with dohc probably could too

chester (dirtyratracing@gmail.com) MSG #74, 10-08-2004 09:37 AM
      Hi Nate,

Emails on the way. - BOUNCED BACK you have a PM.
There is only 2 pages of SD4 parts.
The rest is SD6 and SD8 parts.

Njoy!

Rob D.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #75, 10-08-2004 11:20 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cancerkazoo:

That DOHC head @ 9.5-1 and some boost might hurt something. I'm guessing 400-500 hp with a 7000+ rpm limit.

I'm planning to hit 9000 with the 2 valve head. Pics of the short block coming soon, I promise. A rear seal adapter is being made for the crank, then it goes together!

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #76, 10-08-2004 11:23 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Kohburn:

if a 3L supra engine can hit 900hp then a 3L superduty 4 with dohc probably could too

There are dragsters using the KRP block with a SBC head and SCAT cranks pumping 1200 hp to the ground.

Kohburn MSG #77, 10-08-2004 11:27 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:


There are dragsters using the KRP block with a SBC head and SCAT cranks pumping 1200 hp to the ground.

so much potential

and the thought of a 4cyl fiero that could blow away all the highly tuned imports

chester (dirtyratracing@gmail.com) MSG #78, 10-08-2004 11:58 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:


You need to fire that thing up, chester, with some video, too!

I have to get a starter for it. I have quatermaster working on it.
As soon as I get the starter issue resolved, I'll get working on getting her running.

Rob D.



cancerkazoo (plugers@yahoo.com) MSG #79, 10-08-2004 12:17 PM
      I always liked that motor. I knew it had potential, but not this much.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #80, 10-13-2004 12:09 AM
      Self-glorifying bump to the top!

Kohburn MSG #81, 10-13-2004 07:33 AM
      if GM had just made SD4's common engines instead of the iron goose then we'd be able to get em at a reasonable price
but they aren't so we find other options


Oreif (kopielski1714@wowway.com) MSG #82, 10-13-2004 11:56 AM
      Nice build-up thread. Can't wait to see it running. As for SD4 power, The drag race car built by the Rod Shop hit 550hp normally aspirated using alcohol fuel. Vanderley Engineering use to build SD4's for the race teams and sell engines for street use. They started at 232hp for fuel injected and emission compliant 2.7L version and a 285hp with a 4-bbl carb non-emission compliant 2.7L (it had a larger cam and higher compression). It was around $10k for the 232hp version and $12K for the 285hp version. Not to mention they would build them to suit. You could get the engines in 2.5L, 2.7L. 3.0L, and 3.3L.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #83, 10-14-2004 03:14 PM
      Grrrr....still waiting on the rear seal adapter from KRP. As soon as I get it the short block is going together, and is getting a nice coat of Aluminum POR block enamel.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #84, 11-01-2004 07:47 PM
      FINALLY got KRP to start making me a rear seal adapter. $175, but should be done in a couple days. Meanwhile, I've been trying to do some research on the engine managment aspect of my build, investigating options for wideband oxygen sensor/controllers, and ignition control. I would LOVE to have an MSD Digital 7 ignition, but they're a little pricey. I have also started on a prototype (ghetto, IOW) 90* adapter for the manifold to the throttle body. Goes from the squarebore manifold, 90* to the drivers side, with pressure and temp fittings in the middle. I'm going to try to find a nice LS1 TB somewhere, might go junkyard surfing.

So far I have alot of pics of parts and what not, but it would be nice to get something put together soon. In any case, one step closer...

Nate

carbon MSG #85, 11-07-2004 10:36 AM
      What kind of torque can be expected from one of these? I am just curious... I have absolutely no idea about the SD4's capabilities.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #86, 11-08-2004 01:52 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by carbon:

What kind of torque can be expected from one of these? I am just curious... I have absolutely no idea about the SD4's capabilities.

The strokers can be VERY torquey motors (NA in the 200-300 range). I hope to hit 400 ft lbs, not sure if that will happen.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #87, 11-11-2004 11:59 AM
      Small update. Add another gadget to the list. I'll be getting a DIY wideband O2 unit to make tuning this sucker easier. Should work very well, as the MegaSquirt injection unit has provisions for wideband. Still waiting on the rear seal adapter, though.

I'm about to go crazy waiting on that thing, I don't understand the big delay.

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #88, 11-16-2004 06:49 PM
      Wooohooo!

Rear seal adapter came. Made me feel kinda bad, I had just called the company up and whined about it, about 5 minutes before UPS came. I'll take it in to the shop tomorrow, and have the short block assembled.

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #89, 11-16-2004 07:28 PM
      Here's the rear seal adapter sitting on a random page of my engineering graphics textbook :




Kento (kento@triad.rr.com) MSG #90, 11-16-2004 09:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

Here's the rear seal adapter sitting on a random page of my engineering graphics textbook :

YEAH RIGHT!!! Random page!!! Im not buying that one DUDE!



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #91, 11-17-2004 07:01 PM
      I finally managed to snap a couple final pics before assembly:
Crankshaft, after journal polish:

Straight cut timing gear:

Torrington roller cam bearing:

Block, after honing:

No more pictures of the unassembled short block, I promise.

Edit: to fix the pics cause I'm a tard

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 11-18-2004).]

bryson MSG #92, 11-17-2004 09:22 PM
      That crank is beautiful....

Toddster (toddamelio@gmail.com) MSG #93, 11-18-2004 02:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

Rods?


Erm, no thanks, I'll take my chances with some SBC rods.

.

HEY! I recognize that rod. I got it hang on my wall.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #94, 11-18-2004 03:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:


HEY! I recognize that rod. I got it hang on my wall.

Hehe, I use mine as a paperweight. At least it's still intact.

Toddster (toddamelio@gmail.com) MSG #95, 11-18-2004 03:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:


Hehe, I use mine as a paperweight. At least it's still intact.

But far less conversational.

I love what you're doing. I have similar plans but I don't have the block yet.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #96, 11-19-2004 10:52 AM
      Thanks Toddster (and Orief) for your compliments. In one more month I'll be a year into this project. Time flies, especially now that I'm taking the equivalence of about 21 hours at WSU. Doesn't leave alot of time for work, which, consequently, doesn't leave alot of money left in the bank. I guess this is the time to thank Dad for footing most of the bill for now.

RWDPLZ MSG #97, 11-19-2004 10:59 AM
      Good to see this thread active again, and the project continuing to move forward! What page is that in the textbook, I still have an old Engineering Graphics textbook upstairs...



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #98, 11-19-2004 11:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:

Good to see this thread active again, and the project continuing to move forward! What page is that in the textbook, I still have an old Engineering Graphics textbook upstairs...

Page 354, I think? The other people in my class didn't understand my excitement on that page.

Here's still my biggest problem with this swap:

The SBC bolt pattern on the end. My plan so far is to retain the pattern on the crank, and machine a bellhousing spacer to sit in between the engine and the trans. Then of course a custom aluminum flywheel.

Now I play the waiting game again, though.

Fastback 86 MSG #99, 11-19-2004 03:40 PM
      Its actually going to get assembled now? I don't believe it.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #100, 11-19-2004 04:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fastback 86:

Its actually going to get assembled now? I don't believe it.

Well, it might take longer still if I don't get the right flywheel.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #101, 11-26-2004 06:56 PM
      Recipe for one bullet proof bottom end:

One (1) Super Duty block:

Four (4) forged, heat-treated, shot-peened, 4340 steel, KRP rods with 7/16" ARP bolts:

Four (4) forged aluminum, lightweight Diamond Racing pistons:

One (1) billet steel SCAT crankshaft:

Mix at 9000RPM, add boost. Repeat.



bryson MSG #102, 11-26-2004 07:29 PM
      You may have mentioned this earlier -- but what kind of compression are you planning on having with those pistons? It looks great!
--Bryson


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #103, 11-26-2004 07:51 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bryson:

You may have mentioned this earlier -- but what kind of compression are you planning on having with those pistons? It looks great!
--Bryson

Thanks! When will you start on Quad #2? I'm sure I will be following that as closely as the original.

I'll be sitting at right around 8.35:1 CR. Couldn't have come out better. Another bonus is that the pistons top out at .070" under the deck surface, so I won't have to have them recessed for valve clearance. I will have to figure out a way to mount the oil pump pickup, as the bottom end was previously set up for a dry sump system, so it doesn't have a stud on the main cap where the oil pump pickup bolts on.

All in all, though, I'm very happy with the way it looks. Clearances all checked out (well they better!), not too tight and not too loose, no runout on the gears. I'll be coating the block soon with Aluminum POR engine enamel. Should improve the looks alot. After all, what good is HP if it doesn't look pretty?

TaurusThug (roadconephoto@gmail.com) MSG #104, 11-26-2004 09:21 PM
      :kicks and screams: i wanna see it boost... :ends kicking and screaming:

that looks like a nice motor... when is the head going on???



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #105, 11-27-2004 01:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TaurusThug:

:kicks and screams: i wanna see it boost... :ends kicking and screaming:

that looks like a nice motor... when is the head going on???

The head will go on when the valve train is finished. I still need to pick up some 1.5:1 rockers, valve springs, and pushrods.

shop_rat45 (kristopherjune@yahoo.com) MSG #106, 11-27-2004 04:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cancerkazoo:

Page 2:

This images is larger than 100K. Click to view.

And pages 3 & 4:

This images is larger than 100K. Click to view.

Steve

Is it me, or does this head look a lot like the head on an ecotec?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #107, 11-28-2004 02:46 PM
      That would be interesting shop_rat, an Ecotec head on a SD. (Sorry I wasn't paying attention in chat last night, lol)

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #108, 11-29-2004 05:01 PM
      Well, I recieved my Tech Edge WB02 2A0 kit today. Should help with the tuning alot. After doing the MegaSquirt, it looks like I can whip this thing together in no time. 'Course the MegaSquirt doesn't work, but now I have some experience. I'll toss up some pics of the kit when I can.

later
Nate


Fastback 86 MSG #109, 11-29-2004 05:56 PM
      Better get that flywheel first, or you ain't boostin' nowhere Indy!

yosemitefieros MSG #110, 11-29-2004 06:13 PM
      "I will hit at least 400hp, and then some."

You will. The motors start out at 400hp-450hp, and then break in to nearly 500hp.

All I can say for you is to make sure your brakes and suspension are up to the task or you will be a quite challenged driver of such a ride. To put it mildly, you will be in a Fiero shaped Viper... without the big disks.

Keep up the good work, Gary.

(1988 SD Fiero under construction)

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #111, 11-29-2004 07:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by yosemitefieros:

"I will hit at least 400hp, and then some."

You will. The motors start out at 400hp-450hp, and then break in to nearly 500hp.

All I can say for you is to make sure your brakes and suspension are up to the task or you will be a quite challenged driver of such a ride. To put it mildly, you will be in a Fiero shaped Viper... without the big disks.

Keep up the good work, Gary.

(1988 SD Fiero under construction)

Thank you, how is your project going? I would love to see you restart your build thread.

I wasn't able to spend huge $$$ on the brakes or suspension. I just don't have the cash right now. I did install a vented front brake kit, for what it's worth. I plan on doing coilovers sometime, as well. Right now I'm concentrating on how to get this thing mounted, and actually keep it in the engine bay. I think I may try to fit in an extra dogbone on the top of the engine, but who knows, with all the plumbing that is yet to be done.

Nate

Key Of David (keyofdavid88@alltel.net) MSG #112, 11-29-2004 09:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by yosemitefieros:

"I will hit at least 400hp, and then some."

You will. The motors start out at 400hp-450hp, and then break in to nearly 500hp.

All I can say for you is to make sure your brakes and suspension are up to the task or you will be a quite challenged driver of such a ride. To put it mildly, you will be in a Fiero shaped Viper... without the big disks.

Keep up the good work, Gary.

(1988 SD Fiero under construction)

Oh I like the sound of that!

Wasn't it California Kid who got his signed by Carroll Shelby calling it the "Cobra of the 90s"?

Now if I can just find a SD for cheap.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #113, 12-02-2004 01:32 PM
      Here's a couple pics of the next toy:

TechEdge wideband 2A0 unit. I still need to purchase the LSU sensor. It doesn't look very hard to assemble, hopefully I can get that done sometime next week.

Nate

yosemitefieros MSG #114, 12-02-2004 06:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:


Thank you, how is your project going? I would love to see you restart your build thread.

I wasn't able to spend huge $$$ on the brakes or suspension. I just don't have the cash right now. I did install a vented front brake kit, for what it's worth. I plan on doing coilovers sometime, as well. Right now I'm concentrating on how to get this thing mounted, and actually keep it in the engine bay. I think I may try to fit in an extra dogbone on the top of the engine, but who knows, with all the plumbing that is yet to be done.

Nate

Well, I got sidetracked on another project. My daughter got married (and I got broke!) then I completely rebuilt and restored a 1960 Ford F350 2 ton flat bed truck for my new son in law. When you get old like me, you get pretty relaxed or you have a coronary. I just finished and shipped out the truck last week... 390 ci big block, C6 tranny, dana 77 posi rear end with duallies... 2 tone Dodge Viper Blue and GM brilliant white, DuPont professional clear coat... 4 coats.

Now I am FINALLY back to cleaning out the truck mess and getting back on my 1988 SD4 Fiero with the opening side vents. I have lots of digital photos, but my camera died now and I need to get another one before I can take any more.

I have been enjoying your thread though... kinda gets my gumption up for the continuing construction. Thanks! BTW, you will need to seriously plan to improve your brakes for your SD4. It will be 'hecka' fast and you must live to build again someday. That is why I started an SD4 build with an '88.

Gary

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #115, 12-05-2004 04:22 AM
      Well, between studying for finals and working on the car, I've somehow managed to keep myself busy this week. I'm just finishing up the wideband sensor cable. The controller end of the cable turned out to be quite a ____ . After I get done with the cables, which shouldn't take long, I can get started on the main unit.

More later
Nate


Toddster (toddamelio@gmail.com) MSG #116, 12-05-2004 11:20 AM
      Did the Super Duty only come in a 2-bolt main version? I'm sure it specs out as pretty durable but I would have guessed a 4-bolt version would have been built.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #117, 12-05-2004 01:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:

Did the Super Duty only come in a 2-bolt main version? I'm sure it specs out as pretty durable but I would have guessed a 4-bolt version would have been built.

Nope, no 4-bolt versions were made. In fact, even KRP uses the two-bolt in all of their engines, and there are several KRP engines out there revving to 12,000 RPM consistently. They said they have never had a report of a main failure, or a SCAT crankshaft failure that wasn't due to oil pump failure. Another thing is that the crankshaft doesn't stress the mains as much with excessive flex. The mains are obviously very much improved over the stock engine, no comparison, really. They're also held on with some big 1/2" hardware.

Nate

84Fiero2M4 (darkstarcrx13@dogracing.20fr.com) MSG #118, 12-17-2004 03:34 AM
      any updates on the build?



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #119, 12-18-2004 02:05 AM
      Lately I've been working on assembling the WBO2 unit. I should have that done in a couple days, and I'm finally out of school, so things may start going at a faster rate. My '93 Grand Am daily driver has been keeping me busy enough to not get any real engineering done on the mounts or tranny spacer. Not having a heated shop kinda sucks. I did pop my calipers off to paint them. Word of warning, NEVER buy spray-on VHT caliper paint. I'm going to be spending part of tomorrow sandblasting a caliper.

That being said, I'm not moving forward as fast as I would like to. That and the band saw decided to try to kill me by falling on me, but it's all good. Anyway, I'm going to mock up one of my spare boat anchors on the cradle with the tranny, to see how far I can move the engine over, taking into consideration I'll be using a harmonic balancer as well. After that, then it's getting the plate made, and after that, the motor mounts.

Anyone have tips on fabricating a wiring harness?
Nate


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #120, 12-20-2004 02:04 AM
      WBO2 is done. Just need to power it up, make sure everything is ok, and download the firmware. Hmm...Guess that old junk computer is useful as SOMETHING.

FieroMaster88 (fast88fiero@yahoo.com) MSG #121, 12-20-2004 02:15 AM
      Looks like everything is coming together nicely! Cant wait to see the finished product. Keep up the good work.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #122, 12-21-2004 03:13 PM
      I'm flashing!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
My wideband controller memory, that is . I decided to not sleep Sunday night and get it finished up. As far as I can tell, everything is working correctly (no smoke, uh...that's always good ). Of course I have more testing to do, and calibration once the sensor actually gets here.


RWDPLZ MSG #123, 12-21-2004 08:26 PM
      Woohoo it's moving along, I gotta check the tech section more often I spent my first day off on break making an adaptor harness for my car stereo. Nice when the electronics you made work, sin't it?



Steven Snyder (fiero@steventsnyder.com) MSG #124, 12-23-2004 05:03 AM
      I can't wait to see/hear this thing run. It's gonna be screamin'! Maybe you mentioned this earlier, and I'm sorry if I missed it, but will this engine be very streetable? I noticed you mentioned revving it really high. Do you even plan on driving it outside of a track?

 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:
Word of warning, NEVER buy spray-on VHT caliper paint. I'm going to be spending part of tomorrow sandblasting a caliper.

What happened? I've had nothing but good experiences with this stuff.

-Steven



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #125, 12-23-2004 06:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Steven Snyder:

I can't wait to see/hear this thing run. It's gonna be screamin'! Maybe you mentioned this earlier, and I'm sorry if I missed it, but will this engine be very streetable? I noticed you mentioned revving it really high. Do you even plan on driving it outside of a track?

What happened? I've had nothing but good experiences with this stuff.

-Steven

I'm going to try to keep it fairly streetable. With the electronic boost controller and the EFI, I can turn it down, so to speak. It probably won't have an idle to speak of, but it won't have to run on like 100 octane gas all the time. I do plan on driving it a fair amount.

With the caliper, I degreased everything with degreaser, then soap and water, then let everything dry, and made sure it was the right temperature, etc. I sprayed it on and it just wouldn't stick.

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #126, 01-11-2005 04:14 AM
      Well, the ice and no power thing kinda delayed what I was planning to do. This weekend, however, I want to get the engine and tranny mocked up on the cradle and set it up for moving the engine 3/4" over. I also recieved my fuel injectors, 75pph.

Still going,
Nate


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #127, 01-28-2005 02:12 AM
      It's still been cold here, I guess it's still January after all (time to put the furnace back in the garage). I did a couple odds and ends to keep me busy when I wasn't getting started on school.


I worked on painting my calipers for a couple hours, still have one to do.


I have been wondering just what the hell these injectors that I got are. They are supposed to be domestic injectors, but what do import imjectors look like?

Kento (kento@triad.rr.com) MSG #128, 01-28-2005 10:19 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:


I have been wondering just what the hell these injectors that I got are. They are supposed to be domestic injectors, but what do import imjectors look like?


Those look like the injectors I pulled off my 4.9 Caddy motor when I sold them.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #129, 02-01-2005 01:04 AM
     

Fitting the manifold on the head. Need to trim up a couple areas on the manifold, but the die grinder froze up a while ago, and the dremel tool exploded. Darn, guess I need new tools.

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #130, 02-10-2005 10:18 AM
      I've been working on my fuel lines lately.

The plan right now is to use MSD top-connecting fittings and clips for the injectors, and braided SS line going to each injector without a central fuel rail, only a distribution block. Then I'll have a chunk of 10AN braided line from there to my regulator, and Russel anodized aluminum 1/2" line for the regulator feed and return line. It looks perfect in my head, but I guess we'll see how the execution comes out.

Nate

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #131, 02-10-2005 05:15 PM
      Use 90 degree fittings on the outer two injectors as well and bring their lines up between the runners. That will keep the fuel lines out of sight and your engine looking clean.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #132, 02-24-2005 06:27 PM
      Another part:

1/2" x 25ft Russell aluminum fuel line, for my feed and return lines from the tank.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #133, 03-03-2005 04:12 AM
      Well, as of a couple hours ago, the decision has been made. I'll be using DIS, instead of my current MSD 6AL/GM heavy duty distributor setup. Lately I've been concerned about the effects of the distributor harmonics on the valve train at very high RPM. Not to mention my reluctance to spend another $200 on a BTM. Instead, I'll be putting that money where it will really count, MegaSquirt II and a Ford EDIS system. The MegaSquirt II has increased injector pulse-width control by a factor of 100, apparently, making it of particular use with my large injectors. It also has VERY good support for DIS. Basically it's a matter of mounting the crank position sensor and wheel, and stuffing the EDIS4 module somewhere. This way I will be able to control timing absolutely, not merely as a function of degrees retarded per lb of boost.

In the relatively short time I've been reading up on the EDIS system (compared to the rest of MegaSquirt), I am already sold on it. It will likely help HP levels, not to mention lengthen the lifespan of my cam and other components. At this point I am moving what was the last holdout of old management technology to a digital system, with fuel, boost, and spark all controlled electronically. Wish me luck.

Nate

StuGood MSG #134, 03-03-2005 01:08 PM
      Luck!

RWDPLZ MSG #135, 03-03-2005 04:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:
and a Ford EDIS system.

Ford?! Blasphomy!

Hurry up and finish it already, will ya?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #136, 03-03-2005 05:03 PM
      I know, I know. It being a Ford system has its toll on me too. But it really is a good system with "mad tite" programmability. I'll just keep 3 or 4 backups.

boostedbird (jloraine85@gmail.com) MSG #137, 03-03-2005 06:05 PM
      damn this is gunna be crazy........i was thinking about doing a mpi swap on my conquest and i was gunna use a ford edis system and megasquirt...........megesquirt is deffinatly a cool program.

Flyguyeddy (be329@lab.icc.edu) MSG #138, 03-03-2005 09:43 PM
      ppsst..... its "blasphemy"

and the edis system is a wonderful device. it has the ability to operate completely standalone if there is no SAW input. stays at 10 degrees if it loses SAW.

why dont you just make a fuel rail? wouldnt that be easier than routing 4 different fuel lines? i may be wrong tho.....



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #139, 03-04-2005 12:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Flyguyeddy:

ppsst..... its "blasphemy"

and the edis system is a wonderful device. it has the ability to operate completely standalone if there is no SAW input. stays at 10 degrees if it loses SAW.

why dont you just make a fuel rail? wouldnt that be easier than routing 4 different fuel lines? i may be wrong tho.....

For one thing, the injector bosses in the manifold and the ports themselves are not parallel. If I put in all the injectors parallel to each other, I would basically be injecting onto the port walls. With the injectors angled, I can't use a rail because I wouldn't be able to get it on/off. Another is, it's different, and I think it will look very cool and maybe a little bit old-school. Other than that, I have no problem doing plumbing. In fact, I think it's kinda fun, but who knows, maybe I have a couple fittings loose up top.

And yeah, the EDIS is pretty cool. The beauty of it is, besides its reliability, is it's not a hard install. There's the PIP signal running to MegaSquirt, and the SAW output going back to the module. A couple more wires to the crank sensor itself, and the coil pack. Easy stuff. So, do I get the MSD Blaster coil?

Edit: uh oh, looks like I may have spoken too soon. There may be a problem using EDIS above 8500rpm. More later.

Nate

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 03-04-2005).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #140, 03-05-2005 07:07 PM
      Well, I just took delivery of my K-type thermocouple. It will be driving an Autometer Carbon Fiber pyrometer, along with the WBO2 or Megasquirt dataloggers. I already tried it with my WBO2, fun stuff. My dad and I were going to work on the tranny spacer together today, but I ended up doing some plumbing for him instead. Not a very good tradeoff.

Like always, more later
Nate


Toddster (toddamelio@gmail.com) MSG #141, 03-24-2005 12:56 PM
      Bumpity bumpity bump

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #142, 03-25-2005 03:26 AM
      Well, so far I have yet to do a tangible piece of work the last two weeks. I am, however, working quite actively on getting a clutch/flywheel figured out, which is my main hurdle so far. It's getting much closer, and I can honestly say that I can see the engine and transmission becoming friendly with each other some time this spring or summer. (Hey, all those parts don't come free.) I'll give a hint where I am headed right now :

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #143, 03-27-2005 04:45 AM
      Well, I finally made some progress. It looks like a 1" spacer is going to be made, a flywheel made, and used with a 2-disc clutch setup. I got a bunch of measurements today, and made some decisions and what not. I'll just scan my scribblings when I'm more coherent.



CETICARS MSG #144, 03-27-2005 05:01 AM
      Who makes that intake manifold an how much did it cost ,i would like to know if it could be adapted to a ECOTEC engines head ,so i could set a supercharger on top of it ,i wonder how many bolt would match up to the head

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #145, 03-27-2005 06:39 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by CETICARS:

Who makes that intake manifold an how much did it cost ,i would like to know if it could be adapted to a ECOTEC engines head ,so i could set a supercharger on top of it ,i wonder how many bolt would match up to the head

Edelbrock made it, and it cost me $600 with a Fiero bolted up to it.
Right now, I don't know where to find another one.
I'll get a pic of the flange end, though I doubt any holes would match.

Nate

Fastback 86 MSG #146, 03-27-2005 03:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

Well, I finally made some progress. It looks like a 1" spacer is going to be made, a flywheel made, and used with a 2-disc clutch setup. I got a bunch of measurements today, and made some decisions and what not. I'll just scan my scribblings when I'm more coherent.

What are you going to do about the starter? Will your old one still reach with the flywheel sticking farther out from the block than before?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #147, 03-27-2005 05:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fastback 86:


What are you going to do about the starter? Will your old one still reach with the flywheel sticking farther out from the block than before?

I'll probably have to account for that with the flywheel. The back of the ring gear needs to be 1/4" from the bellhousing flange, so it's gonna be a funny-looking flywheel. The friction surface of the flywheel is set inboard pretty far, though, so I'll have plenty of space to transition from that to the lower outer edge where the ring gear will be.

IOW:

code:

== <-ring gear
\ \
\ \
\ \
| |
| | <-friction surface
| |
| |
| | <-friction surface
| |
/ /
/ /
/ /
== <-ring gear

Think it'll fit?

I'm also going to look and see if I can just make an adapter to move the start farther in, but that might be as much trouble, since if I move it down, I'll have to move it closer to the block, as well.

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #148, 04-14-2005 12:52 AM
      Well, things have been going okay. I picked up a junk flywheel from an early Chevy a couple of weeks ago. The motor is still in its bag, need to get it out and test fit the flywheel.

I did find an intercooler, though. I'm not positive, but I'll know tomorrow. My Grand Am also picked a lovely time to blow a head gasket I believe. Nothing like more delays to keep me on my toes.

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #149, 04-22-2005 04:22 AM
      I've had my Grand Am torn down, effectively screwing my schedule over. Got my fuel cell, though.
This images is larger than 100K. Click to view.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #150, 05-10-2005 02:35 PM
      As of this morning, the cyl. head is at Saum Engineering. They're ordering valve springs and titanium retainers for it. Also going to have them port match it to the intake while it's there. Of course, with the season starting, the shop I use is swamped with high-$$$ race motors, so it could be up to a month before they finish it. I have other things to work on though.

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #151, 05-20-2005 01:16 AM
      Time for an update:

Those are my new injector bosses. They'll solve some of my pesky fuel problems.

Of course, right now the big thing is actually getting the engine into the car, having a tranny spacer plate made, and getting the mounts made. After that are all the little things.

Nate

Wolf_lq1 (wolfie_lq1@charter.net) MSG #152, 05-20-2005 02:08 AM
      friggin sweet motor,untill this thread I thought ohv 4 cyls worn't even worthy to be boat ancors:P



Kohburn MSG #153, 05-20-2005 11:22 AM
      you going to weld those onto the edelbrock? or weld up a tube intake?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #154, 05-20-2005 08:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Kohburn:

you going to weld those onto the edelbrock? or weld up a tube intake?

I'm going to spot face the existing bosses flat with the surface of the runner, then weld those on. I'd rather not deal with making another intake manifold. The last thing I have to deal with for the intake is getting these on and buying or welding up an elbow for the TB.

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #155, 05-26-2005 02:59 PM
      Believe it or not, I've been getting things done. SCE Gaskets should have my SD head gasket already. I've talked to them quite a bit already, and they should be able to make me a copper ICS Titan gasket for it. Summit Racing, in their infinite wisdom, doesn't see fit to send me my rocker arms until late June (thanks, Summit) . At least now I'm moving closer to an assembled long block.

I've been making my trans spacer plate in CAD. Does anyone have bellhousing bolt spacing measurements that I could bounce mine off of? I've expiremented with integrating a motor/trans mount into the plate, that will extend in front of the front crossmember. I'm not sure if it's a possibility as starter/trans/exhaust packaging will all be very tight. Who knows if it will make it into production.

More later as always,
Nate


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #156, 06-01-2005 01:02 AM
      The engine is nearing completion. I believe by the end of July it may be put together.

Here's my TB I purchased:

It's a 90mm Accufab TB for a Mustang. A chatter brought up the possibility that the large opening size of this throttle body could have a bad impact on air velocity when it transitions from the intake tube into the TB mouth. I guess I'll see!

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #157, 06-02-2005 04:47 PM
      I just got done talking to SCE, and they should have a Pro Copper head gasket with an integral combustion chamber O-ring (so I don't have to machine the block or the head) on the way in about 2 weeks. I figured if they held on a 286 CI SBC at 1800HP, 9000RPM, and 43lbs of boost for 52 dyno runs without leaking, they're good enough for me. Of course, I had to buy 2 of them to get them to do the production run. Figures. NOT cheap, but sooo typical.

Nate

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 06-02-2005).]

bryson MSG #158, 06-02-2005 07:55 PM
      I want to know how you worked that out -- I had to buy 4...

fiero308 MSG #159, 06-02-2005 10:33 PM
      OK; have to ask:
did you specifically ask for fuel injection line? I'm just a bit surprised to see that 1/2" anodized aluminum and I am wondering if it is for a carb'd application with the usual 6-7psi pressure. Better safe than sorry; but all the fuel inj lines I have seen have been steel... and you will be adding to the usual 40+ psi to overcome boost........ so you might be in the 50psi range or even more?

Just worth checking. An accident with that particular item would be especially ugly.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #160, 06-03-2005 12:32 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fiero308:

OK; have to ask:
did you specifically ask for fuel injection line? I'm just a bit surprised to see that 1/2" anodized aluminum and I am wondering if it is for a carb'd application with the usual 6-7psi pressure. Better safe than sorry; but all the fuel inj lines I have seen have been steel... and you will be adding to the usual 40+ psi to overcome boost........ so you might be in the 50psi range or even more?

Just worth checking. An accident with that particular item would be especially ugly.

Rated for continuous use at 250 PSI. I'm not about to have ANY line burst. I have 20ft of Russell ProRace -4an line rated at around 1000 PSI that I will run to the injectors.

I'm not about to let ANY little line burst and cost me everything.

fiero308 MSG #161, 06-03-2005 08:37 AM
      that's great; it was just a thought that was bugging me so figured I'd bring it up. The main line is the one with the most FORCE acting on it due to its size, the smaller ones will have less (bursting) force against them of course, so it is that main that I was concerned about. You should be able to use similar type for the smaller lines with less concern.

I am still surprised at that working pressure for alum (esp. at that size...), to be honest but if that is what they say then they should know!
good stuff; looks great, too! Keep it up; very interesting and helpful info!


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #162, 06-03-2005 05:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bryson:

I want to know how you worked that out -- I had to buy 4...

Four? Ouch. Makes a gasket from GM seem pretty cheap, right?

Who did you talk to there? I spoke to Steve Norr, I think he pulled a couple strings. And they already had a part number for mine for an Iron Duke, that may have made a difference.

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #163, 06-09-2005 07:40 PM
      Got my 90mm throttle body, still waiting on head to be assembled and intake to be modified:

And one for size

Took me an hour or two to get it all cleaned up and shiny, but it should work really well.

Nate

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 06-09-2005).]

RWDPLZ MSG #164, 06-09-2005 08:24 PM
      Vanilla Coke and Cornflakes?

TB looks good!



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #165, 06-15-2005 05:59 PM
      Hehe...Got my rockers today:

And been working on a mold for my intake elbow:


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #166, 06-30-2005 01:12 AM
      Head: Nearly $2000 and 1.5 years later, done.

Titanium locks and retainers with K-Motion springs, Crane Gold Race roller rockers, and Manley stainless race valves. Ported and polished, flow benched, and intake port matched.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 06-30-2005).]

Rare87GT (rare88@cox.net) MSG #167, 06-30-2005 02:08 AM
      Looks sweet Nate. Good luck with the rest of the project!



Toddster (toddamelio@gmail.com) MSG #168, 06-30-2005 09:58 AM
      433 heads?

hope you did a whole lot of porting!

RandomTask (jguer003@odu.edu) MSG #169, 06-30-2005 10:40 AM
      FastIndyFiero... I will take back all the mean things Rare87GT ever said about you if you give me that motor....

yosemitefieros MSG #170, 06-30-2005 10:58 AM
      Do I say it... I found my SD head with stainless valves...for... $200 in the back of an old auto repair shop. Sorry, had to say it! It's now all ported and polished to a custom one of a kind '88 intake.

Yours is absolutely beeeeeutiful!

Keep up the great work.

Gary

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #171, 06-30-2005 04:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:

433 heads?

hope you did a whole lot of porting!

290 CFM at .600 valve lift. Of course that was when I was still planning on N/A. It could go much higher.

Not to say I would mind having an 801...IF you happened to know where one was. Though then I would need a different intake.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 06-30-2005).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #172, 07-07-2005 12:58 PM
      Mine:

Spearco 2-230 water/air IC. FINALLY found it on eBay.

Going to be not mine:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/027262.html
Yup. My 2bbl SD intake is for sale.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #173, 07-26-2005 06:08 PM
      Intercooler STILL hasn't arrived. I've been having words with the seller. I'll be pretty pissed if it doesn't come, because I got a great deal on that thing. I had the head on the block, I didn't catch any pics though. Due to an idiotic mistake, I have to machine slight .070" valve recesses into the pistons. Ooops. I'll probably have them coated while they're out, might have the head ceramic coated also.

Updates are for people with no lives

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #174, 07-29-2005 06:50 PM
      How to make mo powa...

big azz IC, yo

Spearco 2-230
im tellin u this sh-- is madd tite

Nate

RWDPLZ MSG #175, 07-29-2005 06:52 PM
      Hey you finally got it! Any update on the piston screw-up?

crzyone (crzyone@cablerocket.com) MSG #176, 07-29-2005 08:00 PM
      Whats the cfm rating on that intercooler? Looks alittle more compact than a barrel type.

Nice progress so far!

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #177, 07-29-2005 09:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by crzyone:

Whats the cfm rating on that intercooler? Looks alittle more compact than a barrel type.

Nice progress so far!

Well, not really much progress so far, but thanks

The IC is rated to 1500CFM. It's actually kinda gigantic - those are 3" inlet/outlets. At 30psi, 700cfm, 400* intake temps, and 45* coolant, output is 81*, with a pressure drop of .18. I won't be running at 30 PSI (ok, I might not be running at 30 psi ), so the temp drop will be a little less, but my max CFM will probably be around 800-850, so it'll work out VERY well.

No RWD, the pistons haven't fixed themselves yet

And now the bad news...Real life sets in. My Grand Am is dying, and I'm looking for a GTP, which means...no fancy high-tech (IOW, expensive) goodies for a while

More updates whenever I feel like it.
Nate


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #178, 08-21-2005 07:39 PM
      The head should be coming apart fairly soon. I'm going to send off the titanium locks and retainers to have them anodized, and I'm also going to get the valves, combustion chambers, and exhaust ports ceramic coated somewhere.

Which reminds me...Check your PM's bryson!

Nate

RandomTask (jguer003@odu.edu) MSG #179, 08-23-2005 08:36 AM
      Bump to the top

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #180, 08-23-2005 05:49 PM
      Thanks for the bump, man. Thought I'd mention that one of my SD intakes is on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7995353431&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

Nate

StuGood MSG #181, 08-23-2005 06:35 PM
      Wow, you've made a lot of progress since last I visited this thread! Impressive pictures, thanks for posting and best of luck getting it all together, Nate!



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #182, 08-31-2005 03:41 AM
      I now have basically all the measurements I need for my tranny spacer plate, .75" thick. Pretty much just have to take it to the machine shop and have it made.

I also picked up a MegaSquirt II, with a V3.0 PCB. It will be controlling ignition through dual timing maps, MSD Pro-Billet distributer and MSD 6AL, all of which I have sitting right here. Depending on what progress is made on the software and crank position decoding, I might run coil-on-plug just for the hell of it. I think I'm going to pick up 4 more fuel injectors too...

At this point, parts accumulation is getting pretty old. I'm ready for the actual build. I've put in some emails for estimates on a header, but no word back yet. Packaging of the turbo and related components is going to be the challenging part (yes, maybe even fun by my standards). Very little of the wiring, sensors, or other electrical components should be visible. The IC looks like it's going to get tossed in the trunk.

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #183, 09-13-2005 05:28 AM
      Well, it's nearly 4:30 AM, and I'm still up -though I'm not quite sure why- so I'll do a quick update. (No pics, it's just the same old stuff)

Work progresses well on my MS unit (I've been testing as I go, everything is okay). My head is disassembled ("wait a second", you say, "wasn't this supposed to be forward progress?!?!" ) , as it will be sent off this week for coatings.

One of the big things I've been putting some time into is researching some small form factor PC's. I've put together a couple of desktop PC's that run very well, but have no experience with some of the problems associated with a vehicle-based computer. Right now, the plan is a simple/fast unit, most likely not interfacing with any audio or media. I've got a different tune to listen to . Excluding the ECM, minimal system integration. I want to be able to run Windows XP, and have a 7" or so touchscreen that when not in some other use, will display analog-style gauges from my ECM. Right now, a physical link between the ECM and PC won't even be becessary, as the ECM will support Bluetooth (yes, that means when I'm tuning it with a laptop or this PC I will not be screwing around with any cables, hehehe). I want very fast boot times, so I'm thinking flash memory here. I need only fit Windows, my tuning program, and a couple of my tuning files.

One of the main needs propogating this project is the ability to re-map and re-tune inside of the car, and the ability to permanently store different tunes so I don't have to change 193 different air-fuel/ignition bins and checkboxes when I decide to throw in a couple gallons of race fuel and go autocrossing or to the strip. Nitromethane, anyone? Ok, ok, no nitro. But I guess the focus is flexibility.

The last issue is cost...this is one of the few things I can cut some corners on, and still do "right". I don't need the latest and greatest to get done what I need to get done. I have a budget to work with and simply have to get some other engine work and things done, otherwise I'll have a nice, small paperweight of a PC.

SO...Anybody have suggestions of a good foundation for this system? I would appreciate any insights...

Next pics I post will be either of a finished Megasquirt or a ceramic coated head.
More later,
Nate


NY_FIERO (timg@expressmart.com) MSG #184, 09-13-2005 04:09 PM
      OMG a car that runs on windows.. look out for the Blue screen of death
(I realize your car will run on the ecm)
(I'm kidding) I think its pretty a cool Idea...


Fixer Up (james.ellis@langley.af.mil) MSG #185, 09-14-2005 11:43 AM
      Dell makes a full bore PC that is about 3 and half inches thick, 6 inches wide and 10 inches long. I have installed a few of them under desks and they don't take up hardly any room at all. Sorry I can't provide a model number, but they run about a grand for the basic PC. It maybe out of your price range and building your own might be the prefered path. Hardware if you build it is fairly cheap, Software is the major cost. Your doing fantastic things here, wish I could see it in person.

Kohburn MSG #186, 09-14-2005 04:03 PM
      these are expensive but just an example of what you can find in the "book pc" market - basicly what you need http://www.thebookpc.com/index.php/cPath/68_33?OVRAW=book%20pc&OVKEY=book%20pc&OVMTC=standard

CaddyRob (coldskies@cogeco.ca) MSG #187, 09-14-2005 05:42 PM
      I use a shuttle XPC and it works great, the sum of the parts could probley fit in the space behind the center console.. just take it out of the case. I got mine for 350 bucks plus the chip and memory and video card(since I didnt want to use the onboard) used a hard drive I already had, for less then a grand

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #188, 09-14-2005 06:13 PM
      Things I can eliminate:
Optical drive
Graphics card
HDD (maybe...2GB on a card is looking pretty good)
Excessive RAM (256MB will do)

I can load XP Pro for free, and the software that I will be using is free also. Will probably just plug a bluetooth adapter into the PC and leave it there, and one on the ECM as well. Keep the ideas coming...

Nate

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #189, 09-22-2005 12:55 PM
      Out with the old:

blech!

In with the new:

Yay! This one even works.

Next pics will be of my head after ceramic coating.


axshun17 MSG #190, 09-26-2005 02:28 PM
      Check out the ITX form factor for your motherboard. There are some that are like 6"x6" and have about everything onboard. If you stick with a HD and stick in a little LCD and controls you could store music and other diagnostic software things like that on it. A laptop hard drive is small you could probably build something that would fit in the normal radio location. I've read a lot of these forums and to mod your brakes and add a rear anti sway plus weld in spacers instead of the bushings on your cradle mounts would cost you less than $400 and the power you will be pushing, it sounds like these things will be a necessity. Read that Agee (guy) or something like that brake mod what he says only cost like $200. If you live in Indy maybe when it gets done I can see you run it I'm about an hour north on 65 and just getting started myself on my Fiero projects.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #191, 09-26-2005 06:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by axshun17:

Check out the ITX form factor for your motherboard. There are some that are like 6"x6" and have about everything onboard. If you stick with a HD and stick in a little LCD and controls you could store music and other diagnostic software things like that on it. A laptop hard drive is small you could probably build something that would fit in the normal radio location. I've read a lot of these forums and to mod your brakes and add a rear anti sway plus weld in spacers instead of the bushings on your cradle mounts would cost you less than $400 and the power you will be pushing, it sounds like these things will be a necessity. Read that Agee (guy) or something like that brake mod what he says only cost like $200. If you live in Indy maybe when it gets done I can see you run it I'm about an hour north on 65 and just getting started myself on my Fiero projects.

That's the form factor I've been looking at. I also already have aluminum cradle bushings, going to go all poly elsewhere, and add a 1 1/4 bar on the back, along with a 2" lowering and coilovers. Eventually I plan to fit 17-18x11-12's out back. Right now the 205's will do though

I actually live in KS...Name is "FastIndy" cause it's an Indy Pace car...and...yeah. Indy Pace Car.

axshun17 MSG #192, 09-30-2005 03:12 PM
      http://www.fierosails.com/index.html SECRETS has some good info. In case you haven't seen it yet.

http://www.webelectricmagazine.com/99/4/brakes.htm Has some real technical formulas and some good info to dial in your brakes the way you want them.

Looks like you have the suspension covered.
I was checking out "The Ogre" site he has some good info to but he said that the brake upgrades aren't as necessary as some say. ME???
Those motherbaords that your looking at are pretty amazing at what you can get and so small. Look up some Touch Screens (Crestron) is one I know of. You can get those setup with hot keys to different control pages in the PC and have slider bars and things like that to control everything. Fuel mixture, turbo whatever you need.
Good luck on this and keep us updated


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #193, 10-01-2005 01:05 AM
      Great...now where am I going to fit this?



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #194, 10-21-2005 07:34 PM
      I got hungry so I cooked me up the rest of a direct port nitrous system. Mmmmm....Tasty.

Nawwwwzzzz baby, nawwwwwzzzzz...

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #195, 10-26-2005 01:33 PM
      A bit of an update...
The shop has started with my intake, which will soon be the SD4 manifold from hell.
I've shipped my head and valves off to bryson to get ceram. coated (thanks!), and been calling around for custom pistons. Arias wants about $160 each for pistons, so I'm still looking around. So, right now, pretty much just playing the waiting game.


RWDPLZ MSG #196, 10-26-2005 06:44 PM
      I haven't responded in a while, but I'm still watching

Ouch $160 EACH for pistons?! KRP only wants $400 for the set of four, any reason theirs wouldn't work?

I finally found some connecting rods for my duke rebuild, but I emailed them and they place only sell them in sets of 8, for $181.44 + shipping...

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #197, 10-27-2005 08:10 PM
      A true TSDB thread suprise....

Intake Manifold....DONE.

-10AN Fuel rail for good measure. I am planning on spraying up to a 150 shot.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #198, 10-28-2005 08:46 PM
      The best part is...

The path of airflow. No intrusions.

Pic of the injector in its bore.


Fierobsessed (nstarfiero@aol.com) MSG #199, 10-28-2005 09:54 PM
      Woo... Ahh, purdy...

Fastback 86 MSG #200, 10-29-2005 02:18 AM
      Woo Hoo! You finally got some actual work done on that thing! How come you're not in chat anymore? Get your stupid wheat powered ISP working.

watts (dr.fiero@gmail.com) MSG #201, 10-30-2005 01:14 AM
      I'm pretty sure this is the same (or damn close!) to the "book PC" thing - but anyhow - this is what I've got here that was (is?) going into my car, along with a Lilliput 7" touchscreen monitor (it's the shiznit yo!).

http://www.kingyoung.com.tw/

Up to you to find a vendor on THIS side of the pond!!


edit: Page 6... Owned!

[This message has been edited by watts (edited 10-30-2005).]

1fastcaddy (ku_ace@yahoo.com) MSG #202, 10-30-2005 02:42 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

I actually live in KS...Name is "FastIndy" cause it's an Indy Pace car...and...yeah. Indy Pace Car.

All good things come from Kansas! hehe Nice to see you puttin ks on the map, bout time toto was forgotten. anyways, I love your motor! one thing, how are you gonna connect your lines to your injectors? I have about the same setup on my 4.5, less flowing of course, but I dont have the injector pod, just an injector boss welded to the intake. Is there any way to put lines straight to the injector, or am I gonna have to trash my setup for yours? Sorry for stealin your thread, just really burnt out not havin my car runnin. thanks, and good luck.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #203, 10-31-2005 01:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 1fastcaddy:


All good things come from Kansas! hehe Nice to see you puttin ks on the map, bout time toto was forgotten. anyways, I love your motor! one thing, how are you gonna connect your lines to your injectors? I have about the same setup on my 4.5, less flowing of course, but I dont have the injector pod, just an injector boss welded to the intake. Is there any way to put lines straight to the injector, or am I gonna have to trash my setup for yours? Sorry for stealin your thread, just really burnt out not havin my car runnin. thanks, and good luck.

Here's a mock-up photo. Instead of the big coiled up line just imagine it connecting to a fitting on the fuel rail. Depending on how your bosses are welded in, you could probably save a lot of hassle over my setup. If the injector bosses are fairly parallel to each other and about the same height, all you have to do is get the fuel rail machined with bores with the right spacing to slide over the top of the injectors, then make a bracket to keep the rail in place.



captinhowdy83 (captinhowdy83@aim.com) MSG #204, 11-05-2005 10:30 PM
      bump!! anything new

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #205, 11-06-2005 04:34 PM
      No real updates yet, working on the piston issue still. I'm also trying to figure out some ideas for a low-mount alternator. On that topic, if anyone has a spare A/C bracket laying around for cheap, I'm needing one...

Nate

1fastcaddy (ku_ace@yahoo.com) MSG #206, 11-07-2005 12:18 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

Here's a mock-up photo. Instead of the big coiled up line just imagine it connecting to a fitting on the fuel rail. Depending on how your bosses are welded in, you could probably save a lot of hassle over my setup. If the injector bosses are fairly parallel to each other and about the same height, all you have to do is get the fuel rail machined with bores with the right spacing to slide over the top of the injectors, then make a bracket to keep the rail in place.

Nice, mine isnt lined up at all, they are kinda kinda paired though, groups of 2, they arent even the same height though. oh well, I think Ive decided to go back to the 2.8 I have lyin around, at least it will run. thanks



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #207, 11-07-2005 01:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 1fastcaddy:


Nice, mine isnt lined up at all, they are kinda kinda paired though, groups of 2, they arent even the same height though. oh well, I think Ive decided to go back to the 2.8 I have lyin around, at least it will run. thanks

Going back to TBI wouldn't really be that big of a loss. It's a heck of alot better than a 2.8. You could just cap off the bosses for now and worry about it later.

1fastcaddy (ku_ace@yahoo.com) MSG #208, 11-08-2005 01:33 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:


Going back to TBI wouldn't really be that big of a loss. It's a heck of alot better than a 2.8. You could just cap off the bosses for now and worry about it later.

so true, I will have to make up my mind next spring though. keep up the good work, I will be watchin. laters



ceverhart (c_p_everhart@yahoo.com) MSG #209, 11-08-2005 11:34 AM
      nice, very nice. I will be back home in december, if you have not located an ac bracket by then I will give you one.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #210, 11-12-2005 06:27 PM
      Sooo, good news and bad news. I got a degree wheel and was setting it up, when I discovered that the SCAT crank is threaded for a different (yet unknown) balancer bolt. "Greeeeaaaat". So I set it up with the stock pulley, timing pointer, and dial indicator, sans the degree wheel that I spent $30 on.

Good news first.

The valves are going to be around .170 away from the piston near TDC. Exhaust valves are even further away at TDC.

The bad news:
I've still got pistons that come out .065 below deck.

So now I'm faced with the dilemma of coming closer to 0 with my deck height and using a dished piston, or leaving these in there with which I acheive a very ideal compression ratio. On the other hand, the valve position does NOT make a custom piston mandatory as I first assumed, and I could probably get something pretty good, made for a turbo and nitrous, for cheaper than the $600-$700 that Arias and Ross quoted me. It very well could be worth it for the increase in quench that might decrease detonation and increase HP.

Decisions, decisions.

Nate

2m6turbo (bguttsen@comcast.net) MSG #211, 11-14-2005 09:24 AM
      how much do you think this super duity build will cost you in the end?

That should be a sweet engine, and i would love to see you KILL a vette or cobra!

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #212, 11-19-2005 11:20 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 2m6turbo:

how much do you think this super duity build will cost you in the end?

That should be a sweet engine, and i would love to see you KILL a vette or cobra!

It will come out to be around 6-7K in the motor and controls.

Fastback 86 MSG #213, 11-19-2005 12:22 PM
      And 6-7 years for completion

Fie Ro (roderick.baas@tros.nl) MSG #214, 11-19-2005 12:52 PM
      looks its gonna be nice

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #215, 11-19-2005 03:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fastback 86:

And 6-7 years for completion

Says the king of the 1 week 3.4 swap

 
quote
Originally posted by Fie Ro:

looks its gonna be nice

Thanks...All it really needs is some kind of really nice body work...Maybe from overseas? *cough* HINT *cough*

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #216, 11-21-2005 01:10 PM
      Okay...looks like 6-7 weeks for the pistons, once I get them ordered. I've decided to go through with it though, no reason to stop doing things right at this point in the build.

captinhowdy83 (captinhowdy83@aim.com) MSG #217, 12-02-2005 09:55 AM
      i really wanna see this one finished



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #218, 12-02-2005 01:12 PM
      Still working on new pistons, my piston guy went on vacation. Doesn't he know there's more important things to do? If anyone wants my old (new) pistons/rings/wrist pins I'll sell the whole set of four for $200. The wrist pins are the only things that aren't new, and they're in good shape anyway.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/029201.html

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #219, 12-03-2005 07:49 PM
      I've been working recently on a more advanced aspect of this project, having to do with my goal of this being a very advanced and well instrumented engine, technologically. So, lately, I've been ironing out some details for a turbocharger tachometer. That way I will be able to monitor turbocharger speed, and hopefully optimize efficiency. The plan I'm working on for right now is to use an IR LED and IR sensor mounted in the compressor housing to sense whenever a reflective surface passes by. This will give me a very definite hz reading for any RPM.

Sooooo...more details of that soon

Shibbypoopalot MSG #220, 12-04-2005 03:36 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

I've been working recently on a more advanced aspect of this project, having to do with my goal of this being a very advanced and well instrumented engine, technologically. So, lately, I've been ironing out some details for a turbocharger tachometer. That way I will be able to monitor turbocharger speed, and hopefully optimize efficiency. The plan I'm working on for right now is to use an IR LED and IR sensor mounted in the compressor housing to sense whenever a reflective surface passes by. This will give me a very definite hz reading for any RPM.

Sooooo...more details of that soon

Wow. Sounds almost impossible... Would be sweet as hell tho. Wait ---- you just wanna be a ricer and have about 28,463 gauges in your dash, don't you???

KurtAKX MSG #221, 12-04-2005 12:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Shibbypoopalot:


Wow. Sounds almost impossible... Would be sweet as hell tho. Wait ---- you just wanna be a ricer and have about 28,463 gauges in your dash, don't you???

I bet he would like to see where he is on the efficiency map by looking at only his pressure ratio and compressor speed.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #222, 12-04-2005 08:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:


I bet he would like to see where he is on the efficiency map by looking at only his pressure ratio and compressor speed.

Exactly. And yes, I'm a ricer at heart

StuGood MSG #223, 12-08-2005 06:42 PM
      Wow - what a tach-y setup ! Actually, that sounds pretty cool. Years ago I used to think it'd be neat to have a turbo-tach on my turbocharged Corvair, just to be able to know how fast it spun. IIRC, the Clymer manual said the Corvair's turbocharger went as fast as 70,000 rpm (or some such figure), so thought it would be neat to see if it really did so.

Nate, my initial reaction was that an optical pickup wouldn't be good, but that's probably only because my Corvair's compressor wheel was usually carboned up when I looked at it, and that picture is stuck in my mind. It had a sideways carburetor that fed the compressor, so air/fuel mixture left deposits on the impeller blades, I guess. On the other hand, yours will be fuel injected, so the compressor only sees filtered air, and the blades probably stay nice and clean. A really cool idea, however you make it work.

Hey- if you came up with software that reads the optical sensor, and converts it into an rpm output for a gage on the dash, you might call it (yes ) -"Turbo Tachs." Oops! That name's taken already...

[This message has been edited by StuGood (edited 12-08-2005).]

Spektyr MSG #224, 12-09-2005 02:48 AM
      Wow, I knew there was another Fiero nut in this town, but I didn't realize there were more than that.

I just wish it were possible for me to see this Indy all put together before I leave. (Fiance insists on living in Toronto, and seeing as she's the big breadwinner she wins that argument. Not that I'm complaining. Much.)

Someday I'll have a Fiero again... "Hey hon, look what followed me home! Can I keep it?"

The only question I've got for you is "how exactly do you plan on keeping the front end on the pavement?"

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #225, 12-09-2005 08:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Spektyr:

Wow, I knew there was another Fiero nut in this town, but I didn't realize there were more than that.

I just wish it were possible for me to see this Indy all put together before I leave. (Fiance insists on living in Toronto, and seeing as she's the big breadwinner she wins that argument. Not that I'm complaining. Much.)

Someday I'll have a Fiero again... "Hey hon, look what followed me home! Can I keep it?"

The only question I've got for you is "how exactly do you plan on keeping the front end on the pavement?"

The extra 40-50 lbs of methanol over the front wheels should help some...

Or not.

Canada, eh? When are you leaving? I'll try to have it done before then...but, well, you know.

Parts list is finalized, I'm going to get the components here pretty soon and put together a rough circuit. Here's the PCB I designed provided the damn thing actually works. If it works, I'll sell a PCB, display, and odds/ends kit for under $100,


Spektyr MSG #226, 12-09-2005 09:00 PM
      Well we're on a bit of a shoe string budget at the moment. She's up there now, got a basic "pays the rent" job for the holiday season and is looking for "real" work. The aim is to get me there in time for the wedding in mid-April. I don't make much (any) money right now as a writer, so the big question is how best to cheaply get me and all the various material goods up there - not the easiest thing to manage especially since I can't legally drive at the moment (no car, no license... haven't needed either for a few years.)

So yeah, the "when" is more than a bit fuzzy right now. It depends mainly on how quickly she can find a job in PR (her career field) and have me shipped up there.

I'll admit, I'm something of a "kept man". But you won't hear me complain. She pays the bills, leaving me with ample time to make 100% certain she's blissfully happy. Win-win.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #227, 01-03-2006 01:01 PM
      Well, I'm still working on the order for the custom pistons. The old pistons are out so they can go to some lucky individual building a 4cyl.

Here's the link to my old (new) ones. I should have pics up in a while. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/029201.html

I'm also going to start working on a trans mount starter. My button flywheel for a 5.5" 3 disc clutch will be here soon also. No work on the turbo tach recently.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #228, 01-12-2006 06:49 PM
      Got my flywheel in today, making more progress on the driveline than the engine right now.

It's masive!

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Wait, no it's not

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #229, 01-12-2006 08:16 PM
     



Fierobsessed (nstarfiero@aol.com) MSG #230, 01-12-2006 08:54 PM
      Awwwwee.... its so cute.

Fastback 86 MSG #231, 01-12-2006 11:55 PM
      OMFG!!! Is that a PART........ON the ENGINE?!?!?!?!? Alert the Church! Get the Priest! Its a miracle, I tell you!!!



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #232, 01-15-2006 12:35 PM
      My custom pistons are in, I'm going to the shop to pick them up tomorrow. Hopefully I won't have any problems with them, but who knows...

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #233, 01-16-2006 08:07 PM
     

Well, I got my new pistons today and they look absolutely sweet, except that I wanted a deeper, lower diameter recess cut instead of the way they did it. So any quench I was looking to gain with these pistons was probably eliminated.

Sigh...

My mistake, however, as I didn't specify that I wanted an inverted-D cut before the shop ordered them. Oh well, I've reached the end of the road as far as pistons go, and these look to be very nice pieces that will take whatever I throw at them. I'm somewhat disapointed, but at $700, I feel it is unnecessary to go through this again. Granted, it wouldn't be quite that much, since I got pins and rings as well, but hey, I've still got other stuff to pay for.

Anyway, I just had an absolutely fantastic chat with bryson's (turbo Q4) dad, who informed me that my head and valves are coated and ready to ship. Thanks for the call, and most definitely call again, I'd love to talk about engine management for your project.

So, what this means is that my build is now down to the clutch situation, getting the pistons installed, getting pushrods of the correct length, and exhaust/intake work. I can't believe I'm on the home stretch already. Anyway, updates about critical (read: expensive) items may be few and far between from here out, as I'm going back to school tomorrow, but I'm always working on something and will keep this thread updated with respect to that.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #234, 01-17-2006 01:06 AM
     

TaurusThug (roadconephoto@gmail.com) MSG #235, 01-17-2006 01:26 PM
      you get ur parts yet

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #236, 01-22-2006 08:08 PM
      I got my head and valves back from ceramic coating from forum member bryson. All I can say is wow, great job, and thanks. It looks fantastic. I will miss the uber-cool-looking shiny aluminum/stainless steel look from the past, but this coating is sweet and should help the performance among other aspects like operating temp. Pics (duh):



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #237, 01-23-2006 12:12 PM
      Bump

Shibbypoopalot MSG #238, 01-23-2006 01:26 PM
     

bryson MSG #239, 01-23-2006 01:32 PM
      Glad to see everything showed up well! Sorry it took so long -- I had a few issues with my airbrush at the beginning of break.

Mo' pictures = mo' betta. Keep them coming! The build looks great!

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #240, 01-25-2006 02:29 PM
     

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/FastIndy/Clutch/5_5CATIAClutchExp.jpg

On the monitor I use at work I have about 3" of extra viewing space on each side of the above pic. I love CATIA.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 01-25-2006).]

Kohburn MSG #241, 01-25-2006 02:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:
I love CATIA.

one of the few packages i haven't used

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #242, 01-25-2006 06:10 PM
      Coming from Solidworks and Pro/E, I can say CATIA V5 is a VERY nice package. I use it at work and we have every workbench for it as well.

After an hour, I'm almost done with the clutch cover, have a little work to do on the pressure plate inside of it. All of the critical dimensions of each component are correct to real-life dimensions, and I'm going to use it to perform a motion/interference simulation with a theoretical bellhousing/starter arrangement when I can get some dimensions for those.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 01-25-2006).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #243, 01-31-2006 09:13 PM
      Well, I can't even access my clutch assembly now. Apparently for a short period of time a newer sub-version of software was being used at work, which they took off. So the old version of CATIA V5 can't read most of my files. :grrrr:

v8fiero400 (taz@yahoo.com) MSG #244, 02-14-2006 11:40 AM
      Bump....for an interesting thread.

GTFiero87 MSG #245, 02-14-2006 05:40 PM
      Will this pass emissions? I was thinking not because I wanted to do it, but the e-check in Ohio.

1fastcaddy (ku_ace@yahoo.com) MSG #246, 02-14-2006 10:57 PM
      Its been so long since Ive checked up on this thread, turns out im goin iron duke for the moment, maybe it will evolve into an ecotec build. later

fierogt3800 (fierochris@yahoo.com) MSG #247, 03-05-2006 04:02 PM
      Bump for updates! more please!

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #248, 03-10-2006 12:25 PM
      Unfortunately, Calc 2, Physics, Statics, and my job at the Structural Test division are keeping me extremely busy. Not to say there hasn't been any progress

I have flanges for my TB adapter sitting around, and I might work on that this weekend. I'm also switching things up a bit and looking for coated titanium wrist pins to relieve some of the stress on the rod at high RPM. Right now the only thing keeping the long block from being put together is re-honing the cylinder walls to the proper finish, and putting the head back together. From there all I will need is pushrods. I've also been devoting a large amount of time studying functions and coding (what little of it I understand) of the upcoming MegaSquirt products like the GPIO, router, and PWC devices. These all have a great bearing on my project and I suspect will be around in time to be implemented. So be looking for COP sequential ignition in my future

 
quote
Originally posted by GTFiero87:

Will this pass emissions? I was thinking not because I wanted to do it, but the e-check in Ohio.

Short answer...No. I'm making no provisions for a cat, and using a big cam as well. At WOT I expect this to not be a very eco-friendly engine

Keep checking this thread for updates, as it will be getting exciting this summer especially!

1986 Fiero GT (trevorjecklund@gmail.com) MSG #249, 03-30-2006 03:05 PM
      Damn, I'm impressed... I plan on doing the same thing this summer, only with a Subaru engine. Keep up the good work, and don't stop updating!

Tusch (john.partusch@gmail.com) MSG #250, 04-04-2006 04:06 PM
      Bump for one of the coolest engine build up threads, I wanna see where this is going.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #251, 04-04-2006 05:40 PM
      Thanks for the compliments, and sorry about the lack of updates for the past while. Been staying VERY busy. Sooooo...Updates.

I'm getting a TIG welder soon

Picked up a couple of odds and ends, like a CM remote oil filter. Very nice piece. No more unfiltered oil at WOT for me.

I started making a rough fiberglass intake adapter to go from the manifold straight rearward, and pointing up at about a 45* angle to clear the frame. That means I'll have to put a small "teardrop" hump in the deck, but it'll look cool . I won't hurt your eyes with pictures of that in its current state . The final version will be made from several plies of carbon fiber sleeve inserted into a female mold and expanded with an inner tube. This will provide a glossy surface on the outside for cosmetics, and a somewhat smooth surface on the inside for proper air flow, as well as removing any excess resin or air pockets. (Thanks to Kohburn for suggesting the inner tube, after much frustration wondering what I could use for this purpose.)

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #252, 04-06-2006 07:48 PM
      An update:
The components for my turbo tach have been ordered. Upon reception I will be assembling and testing. After rigorous testing, I will be providing these to the public as a finished no-hassle product. The hardest part will be drilling a hole or two into your compressor housing.

Good times

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #253, 06-27-2006 01:08 PM
      Bump!

StuGood MSG #254, 06-28-2006 12:48 PM
      "Teardrop bump on hood..." sounds like a big improvement over the "hole in decklid for air cleaner" you had to start with, Nate!
Thanks for the updates !


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #255, 08-17-2006 02:24 PM
      Just a bump to keep this thread from going into archives. Very little progress right now, the daily driver '96 Mercury Sable 24V decided
that the road needed its oil more than the engine did.

Road: 1
Engine: 0

And, of course, I started back on my fall semester. Always planning though, and this thread is far from over...

Nate


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #256, 08-17-2006 07:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

Just a bump to keep this thread from going into archives. Very little progress right now, the daily driver '96 Mercury Sable 24V decided
that the road needed its oil more than the engine did.

Road: 1
Engine: 0

And, of course, I started back on my fall semester. Always planning though, and this thread is far from over...

Nate
you sure your foot didn't help it decide?



RWDPLZ MSG #257, 08-17-2006 07:46 PM
      I had one of those for two years, sell it now, it's a bigger money pit than the SD4



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #258, 08-17-2006 09:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:

you sure your foot didn't help it decide?


All-aluminum DOHC 3.0L V6's with indivdual TB secondaries are SUPPOSED to hit redline daily


TrotFox (trotfox@gmail.com) MSG #259, 12-10-2006 01:34 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:


All-aluminum DOHC 3.0L V6's with indivdual TB secondaries are SUPPOSED to hit redline daily


I completely agree. Which is why it'll be scary if I ever get a high-reving 3.4 into my car. } ; ]

Any updates?

BUMP!

Red 5spd Formula (still stock but burning oil above 3K WOT)
Trot, the zippy, fox... } ; ]


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #260, 12-11-2006 06:49 PM
      No updates right now. I just recovered the pieces of the conn rod from my Sable engine however. Ooops



Fastback 86 MSG #261, 12-11-2006 07:10 PM
      How many years you been at this project Nate?

RWDPLZ MSG #262, 12-11-2006 09:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

No updates right now. I just recovered the pieces of the conn rod from my Sable engine however. Ooops



I'm warning you (again), SELL IT NOW!


fierobear (fierodsl@pacbell.net) MSG #263, 12-13-2006 09:24 PM
      If anyone wants to buy a Superduty set up, let me know. I plan to sell mine.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #264, 12-15-2006 08:41 PM
      Sooo....


Ooops.

That being said, I actually did something with the SD4 today!
*cue heavenly music*


Tadaa!
Yeah, okay. So maybe taking it apart isn't necessarily a step in the forward direction, but those will be coming soon enough. Since the cam and crank have to come out to get the cylinders refinished, I thought it would be a good time to snap some pics of stuff that I wasn't able to document earlier:

Main bearings...The pic pretty much explains all.


Rear seal adapter. Unfortunately, my brain wasn't working correctly and I stretched out the seal O-ring when removing the cap. Chalk that up as a big "Damn." Oh well, everything else is looking amazingly clean and rust free for having been stored for a year now. Tomorrow I remove the cam, and test fit the piston rings to verify I'm not going to go over end gap tolerance by boring it out another .002" to 4.007".





Updates tomorrow...


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #265, 12-16-2006 02:41 PM
      Camshaft: out. I thought I'd snap a couple pics of the SD cam bearings.




This is a good shot of one of the secondary cam journals. Obviously, it's much narrower than the 3 main journals.


This is a good shot that shows just how much wider the main bulkheads are on the block. The journal is recessed very far in.




RWDPLZ MSG #266, 12-16-2006 03:47 PM
      I'm loving these pictures

antinull.com MSG #267, 12-16-2006 03:53 PM
      mmm guts mmm
good pix


frankenfiero1 (just_a_guy2525@yahoo.com) MSG #268, 12-16-2006 05:21 PM
      Does your water pump have a number on it? I am building a S-10 block up, but am running into the problem of the long snout W/Pump. If I could get any info for the pump you are using, it would be most appriciated!.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #269, 12-16-2006 09:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by frankenfiero1:

Does your water pump have a number on it? I am building a S-10 block up, but am running into the problem of the long snout W/Pump. If I could get any info for the pump you are using, it would be most appriciated!.



Sure, if there's a # on the pump I'll get it for you when I get home tomorrow. It's the waterpump in the GM build package, which is supposed to be a high-flow version.

Nate


frankenfiero1 (just_a_guy2525@yahoo.com) MSG #270, 12-17-2006 01:09 AM
      You're the bomb man! I have been researching this pump for about 3 weeks now to no avail. It is shorter than the stock S-10 pump.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #271, 12-28-2006 12:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by frankenfiero1:

You're the bomb man! I have been researching this pump for about 3 weeks now to no avail. It is shorter than the stock S-10 pump.



Okay...Well. I can't find the master list of all the components that came in the kit. So that REALLY sucks. I've been in cleaning mode for the last couple of days just trying to find some of my documentation. There's two different GM part numbers on the waterpump, but I have a feeling they're just for the case halves of the pump, not the entire unit.

In other news, I did final test fitting and measuring to verify that the new piston/ring combination will work for sure. Now it just needs to be honed for the 1.2mm rings and the rear main O-ring fixed. Depending on how the budget goes, I may have the block ready for piston installation (again) by the end of January.

Nate



frankenfiero1 (just_a_guy2525@yahoo.com) MSG #272, 12-28-2006 11:29 PM
      CRAP!!!! Another brick wall on this water pump! Can you send me a really good photo of it that I can take to my parts guy? He is already used to me coming to him with "off the wall" parts. If anyone can find it for me, he is, just need something for him to go by...I hope yours never goes out, I think you would play hell tryin' to find one!



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #273, 01-03-2007 02:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by frankenfiero1:

CRAP!!!! Another brick wall on this water pump! Can you send me a really good photo of it that I can take to my parts guy? He is already used to me coming to him with "off the wall" parts. If anyone can find it for me, he is, just need something for him to go by...I hope yours never goes out, I think you would play hell tryin' to find one!



It looks pretty much exactly like the stock pump as far as I can tell. I'll get it side-by-side with the stocker to look for any differences you could look for and get some pics. I'll also post up the #'s from the case halves.

In other news, I have my extra NOS Foggers listed in eBay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-Stainless-Annular-Discharge-Fogger_W0QQitemZ140070858661QQihZ00 4QQcategoryZ33740QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Also still have my extra SD TBI intake for sale in the Mall...
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/034553.html

Okay, I'm done shamelessly plugging my items.

Nate

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 01-03-2007).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #274, 01-08-2007 08:43 PM
      A little more progress made today...The torque plate I picked up for $50 on eBay arrived today. I need to make a slight modification, and bore the through holes to 1/2" to fit the bigger SD head bolts. Might just do this on the mill at work if I find time. I also need to find hardware to fit the much shorter torque plate. I might post some pics of the plate tomorrow. What this all means is that reassembly of the short block is not far off...

Lata's!!!

Nate


frankenfiero1 (just_a_guy2525@yahoo.com) MSG #275, 01-12-2007 10:37 PM
      So does the pump bolt to the front of the block, or does it have an adaptor to bolt into the boss in the side of the block?



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #276, 01-14-2007 09:43 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by frankenfiero1:

So does the pump bolt to the front of the block, or does it have an adaptor to bolt into the boss in the side of the block?



The pump bolts to the side of the block exactly like the stock waterpump. It looks like the outside housing is exactly the same. I think the only change is likely a larger impeller or passages.

Here's the link to my Edelbrock SD-TBI manifold on eBay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pontiac-Super-Duty-SD-Intak...

Decided to clear some parts out.

Pics of the torque plate AND water pump info today, I promise!

Nate


Hudini (hudini@tds.net) MSG #277, 02-04-2007 11:06 PM
      Bump for those pics...

vortecfiero (vortecfiero@hotmail.com) MSG #278, 02-05-2007 09:28 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

The engine is nearing completion. I believe by the end of July it may be put together.

Here's my TB I purchased:





It's a 90mm Accufab TB for a Mustang. A chatter brought up the possibility that the large opening size of this throttle body could have a bad impact on air velocity when it transitions from the intake tube into the TB mouth. I guess I'll see!

Nate


you know a 2.5 id throttle body will give awsum throttle response and easily support 400 hp
in a turbo application right ?



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #279, 02-09-2007 10:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by vortecfiero:


you know a 2.5 id throttle body will give awsum throttle response and easily support 400 hp
in a turbo application right ?



Yes. I just wanted a clean looking throttle body and capability for alot more power down the road.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #280, 02-16-2007 10:49 PM
      As promised except really, really late:







RWDPLZ MSG #281, 02-16-2007 11:00 PM
      Ooh purdy

I own page 8!

[This message has been edited by RWDPLZ (edited 02-16-2007).]

frankenfiero1 (just_a_guy2525@yahoo.com) MSG #282, 02-16-2007 11:08 PM
      Thanks man for the pics of the W/P, but my S-10 motor does not have the side port or bosses for it. I am looking into a right hand outlet for the S-10 motor now. I have my best people working on it! I'm so glad you haven't given up on your build though, I have learned alot, and I am an avid "4-cyl" man. I can't wait till yours is finished!



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #283, 03-04-2007 05:11 PM
      Progress? Of course!





Here's a couple of pics showing a mockup. The nitrous distribution block will go basically in the same position, just a little closer to the head and slightly higher. Should look pretty cool when done. I just need to get some tube sleeves and fittings, then I'll start plumbing. Already have stainless tubing and everything else...Figures a couple of tube sleeves would hold up the operation.

Nate


88 Silver Formula (adam@nesman.net) MSG #284, 03-05-2007 11:52 PM
      all i can say

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #285, 03-11-2007 12:57 AM
      Summit Racing FTMFW. Ordered the B nuts and sleeves on Thursday, got here two days later, this morning. IOW, I've been busy

So...






Half done.

More later, as always,
Nate


Emc209i (emc209i@yahoo.com) MSG #286, 03-11-2007 01:07 AM
      Nate, when are we gonna finish this bud? It's been uber years.

Rock on dude, looks good!


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #287, 03-11-2007 05:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Emc209i:

Nate, when are we gonna finish this bud? It's been uber years.

Rock on dude, looks good!


Uber years? LOL






Nitrous?
DONE.
(For now)

Nate


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #288, 03-20-2007 04:02 PM
      Updates...

Designed a header flange, that was easy enough. I have several designs for short-tube equal length headers, but until I get my cradle and engine compartment modeled I'm not sure what will work. Might be able to do some of that this week, during spring break.

Another thing I've been looking at is a change of engine control. I like MS2, but my plans are starting to overtap it's capabilites, and even some of the capabilities that aren't even in the development plan for MS2. Over the last 2 years I've accumulated so many add-ons it's getting hard to keep track of...Seperate WBO2 controller, boost controller, while planning to EXTENSIVELY modify the MS2 to get what I need. Not to mention that reliability is lacking, partly due to the home assembled nature (me), and partly due to the somewhat experimental nature of these devices (cheap).

So I've been looking for something more capable and professional. This has brought me to the Big Stuff 3 controller. While this is MUCH more expensive, it will greatly simplify my life. This means eliminating the distributor, and running coil on plug, and sequential injection with individual cylinder control, with built-in boost control. So, this means installation of cam and crank position sensors, as well as installing a cam trigger magnet on the timing gear, and a 24 tooth trigger wheel on the crank. Add 4 LS1 coils and I'll be good to go.

Downside (because there always is one)....
Cost: About $2700 for everything. This would include wiring, coils, the works. But still. Ouch. So, right now I'm split on whether to start designing for the BS3 or keep going ahead as planned. Could end up saving me alot of time, but almost $3000 is still a lot of cash out of pocket.

Need a better paying job.
Nate

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 03-20-2007).]

darkhorizon MSG #289, 03-20-2007 04:06 PM
      megasquirt or another "cheapie" ECU would do the DIS ignition that you want.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #290, 03-22-2007 02:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

megasquirt or another "cheapie" ECU would do the DIS ignition that you want.


Megasquirt can do DIS, but COP is MUCH more difficult. Right now it's pretty much limited to wasted spark COP, which still requires alot of modifications to set up. Even after that, you don't get individual cylinder timing control.


davidmgbv8 MSG #291, 04-30-2007 02:58 PM
      I went to the dirt track this weekend and teenagers were driving sprint cars with Iron and Aluminum headed Super Duty engines. Naturally aspirated with mechanical fuel injection putting out 400 horse at the flywheel on the dyno. Pretty impressive stuff. Your project should really move. Can't wait till you fire it up.
David


Flyguyeddy (be329@lab.icc.edu) MSG #292, 04-30-2007 06:21 PM
      you can run coil on plug ignition with megasquirt. you just have to source suitable coils.

Chris Hodson MSG #293, 05-01-2007 07:49 AM
      this is so effin cool. you rock dude.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #294, 05-01-2007 06:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Flyguyeddy:

you can run coil on plug ignition with megasquirt. you just have to source suitable coils.


See my post above.

 
quote
Originally posted by Chris Hodson:

this is so effin cool. you rock dude.


Thanks!

I thought I'd let everyone know my exhaust flanges are designed. This should be final version, I've been looking around at who can machine these from 321 stainless.



One picture of a thermal load being applied:


Soo...there's some major progress being made!

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 05-27-2007).]

Nashco (nashco@hotmail.com) MSG #295, 05-02-2007 05:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:


Megasquirt can do DIS, but COP is MUCH more difficult. Right now it's pretty much limited to wasted spark COP, which still requires alot of modifications to set up. Even after that, you don't get individual cylinder timing control.


Cool project, I've been keeping my eye on it. Just curious, what's wrong with wasted spark? Also, what do you expect to gain from individual cylinder timing control? It seems that adding a timing wheel and going wasted spark with megasquirt would be well worth the $$$$ saved. For what it's worth (depending on your timing), when the router board is officially released later this year there should be all the hardware needed for COP without wasted spark, although I don't think anybody has talked about individual cylinder timing just yet. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "alot of modifications" but I'm fairly confident that the Microsquirt can currently operate 4 cylinder COP in wasted spark with only a toothed wheel on the crank, which is pretty straight forward and cheap.

Just trying to help out, I would hate to see you spend a ton of money on option B without knowing the above. If you know all the above and still want to drop a few grand, to each his own of course.

Bryce


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #296, 05-02-2007 06:08 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Nashco:


Cool project, I've been keeping my eye on it. Just curious, what's wrong with wasted spark? Also, what do you expect to gain from individual cylinder timing control? It seems that adding a timing wheel and going wasted spark with megasquirt would be well worth the $$$$ saved. For what it's worth (depending on your timing), when the router board is officially released later this year there should be all the hardware needed for COP without wasted spark, although I don't think anybody has talked about individual cylinder timing just yet. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "alot of modifications" but I'm fairly confident that the Microsquirt can currently operate 4 cylinder COP in wasted spark with only a toothed wheel on the crank, which is pretty straight forward and cheap.

Just trying to help out, I would hate to see you spend a ton of money on option B without knowing the above. If you know all the above and still want to drop a few grand, to each his own of course.

Bryce


I don't regard individual spark timing control as being that important. What I like is the individual cylinder fuel timing and trim control that goes with it. If I were slapping this engine together in a month or two, I wouldn't worry about trying to screw around tuning individual cylinders. But I figure that since I've spent 3 years on this already, another month spent getting it running JUST right isn't going to kill me. I'm not going to worry about it right now, so I'll see where megasquirt is in 6 months - year and go from there. If it's up to snuff then, I have absolutely NO problem spending less money. But if the quality isn't there, or the performance, then I'm not going to let it come near my baby.

Thanks for your opinion though!


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #297, 05-07-2007 06:27 PM
      This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.
This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.



whadeduck (richardjborton@gmail.com) MSG #298, 05-07-2007 06:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.
This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.



Ruh-roh Raggy.



RWDPLZ MSG #299, 05-07-2007 07:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.
This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.



That's not good...


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #300, 05-12-2007 02:42 PM
      Still haven't heard back from SPD Exhaust, who I called to have the exhaust flange laser cut. I'm not sure what the deal is with that gasket, I've been contemplating O-ringing the ports and making my own gasket.

Toddster (toddamelio@gmail.com) MSG #301, 05-12-2007 05:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.
This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.



I see custom made gaskets in your future!


Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #302, 05-12-2007 08:03 PM
      Let me get this right. A SD four with a turbo and nitrous. That's one bad combination. I hope that you are just using the nitrous off the line until the turbo spools up. I believe that it will be very difficult to tune for boost and N20 working for the whole 1/4 mile.



p8ntman442 (spaldingj@wit.edu) MSG #303, 05-12-2007 08:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.
This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.


Machine the head and the intake flat, and then use anerobic sealer. Expensive the first time, but after each R&R and not having to buy more custom gaskets, you will make out in the end.


Unless your head ports match the gasket, if thats the case your ****ed.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #304, 05-13-2007 12:45 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Let me get this right. A SD four with a turbo and nitrous. That's one bad combination. I hope that you are just using the nitrous off the line until the turbo spools up. I believe that it will be very difficult to tune for boost and N20 working for the whole 1/4 mile.



I'm going to tune with the turbo first, then start working up from smaller nitrous shots. I don't think it will be a problem.


xlr2004 (xlrv_2006@sbcglobal.net) MSG #305, 05-13-2007 11:18 AM
      I've been monitoring this for quite some time, as I've got a couple SD-4 projects (have been on-going for....let's say MUCH longer than you have..but have never got things running quite right due to misc. issues (i.e. my mistakes). Appreciate you sharing all the info, and may be able to give you a lead on your gasket issue. I've got an aluminum SD-4 head with the Holley TBI intake (made for the aluminum high port head, not stock head). The gasket they include looks like it fit's your head (bolt holes around the center coolant port are very close to the #2, #3 intake runners. Looks like this is what you need. I had purchased a replacement gasket (10+ years ago) since mine cracked. I ordered p/n 301-127 from Holley (has 1238 pressed on gasket), can't tell from your picture if it says 1238-1, or 1258-1. Don't know if they still sell it, but may be worth a try. I can send a pic if you want.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #306, 05-19-2007 04:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by xlr2004:

I've been monitoring this for quite some time, as I've got a couple SD-4 projects (have been on-going for....let's say MUCH longer than you have..but have never got things running quite right due to misc. issues (i.e. my mistakes). Appreciate you sharing all the info, and may be able to give you a lead on your gasket issue. I've got an aluminum SD-4 head with the Holley TBI intake (made for the aluminum high port head, not stock head). The gasket they include looks like it fit's your head (bolt holes around the center coolant port are very close to the #2, #3 intake runners. Looks like this is what you need. I had purchased a replacement gasket (10+ years ago) since mine cracked. I ordered p/n 301-127 from Holley (has 1238 pressed on gasket), can't tell from your picture if it says 1238-1, or 1258-1. Don't know if they still sell it, but may be worth a try. I can send a pic if you want.



Mine says 1238-1. It's a Felpro gasket PN 1441. I looked up the Holley gasket on Summit Racing, and it wasn't listed. I'll try Holley's website next.

I'm also still working on getting someone to make those flanges. SPD Exhaust never got back to me after they had me send in my model for a quote, but I may have found a place that will do it cheaper anyway.

Nate "obviously still learning" Engel


p8ntman442 (spaldingj@wit.edu) MSG #307, 05-24-2007 12:11 PM
      have you tried www.emachineshop.com I have not heard good or bad abou them, just remember the name.

xlr2004 (xlrv_2006@sbcglobal.net) MSG #308, 05-25-2007 11:19 AM
      Sorry if this is a repeat......not sure what happened the first time I typed this ???

I have another p/n written down for a Fel-Pro gasket through Jeg's....may be the same as what you have. It's p/n 375-1238-1 (may just be the Jeg's p/n for the gasket)????

Also, here's some alternate p/n's from a Pontiac Motorsports Super Duty Parts (4, 6 & 8 Cyl) list I have:
p/n F0 5892-1 Vanderley/Huffaker For Cyl. Head p/n 10049801 (S.D. Aluminum, Equal Port Intake)
p/n F0 5892 Vanderley/Huffaker For Cyl. Head p/n 10045437 (S.D. Aluminum, Std Port Intake).....what I have

If there's some interest here for the S.D parts list, I can probably scan them into .pdf & post (if it's possible). It's pretty old at this point in time, but has lots of GM & non-GM p/n's (& Vendor's) for all 4, 6 & 8-cyl Pontiac S.D Parts.

Mark



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #309, 05-26-2007 09:54 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by xlr2004:

Sorry if this is a repeat......not sure what happened the first time I typed this ???

I have another p/n written down for a Fel-Pro gasket through Jeg's....may be the same as what you have. It's p/n 375-1238-1 (may just be the Jeg's p/n for the gasket)????

Also, here's some alternate p/n's from a Pontiac Motorsports Super Duty Parts (4, 6 & 8 Cyl) list I have:
p/n F0 5892-1 Vanderley/Huffaker For Cyl. Head p/n 10049801 (S.D. Aluminum, Equal Port Intake)
p/n F0 5892 Vanderley/Huffaker For Cyl. Head p/n 10045437 (S.D. Aluminum, Std Port Intake).....what I have

If there's some interest here for the S.D parts list, I can probably scan them into .pdf & post (if it's possible). It's pretty old at this point in time, but has lots of GM & non-GM p/n's (& Vendor's) for all 4, 6 & 8-cyl Pontiac S.D Parts.

Mark



I'm sure plenty of people here are interested if you could put it in a .pdf or even just jpegs. On that subject, what's a good free file hosting site?

I have some scans I'm going to post up tonight, good info.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #310, 05-27-2007 12:55 PM
      Here's scans of the original build sheet, hand dated 8/18/83 that sat in my SD Build kit box (10031328) for more than twenty years before I bought it. The original is in very bad condition, with lots of tears, it's almost ripped in half. I'm amazed the scans came out this well!




FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #311, 05-27-2007 01:22 PM
      AND, I actually did something yesterday. I started mocking everything up...

I used the old head gasket:


Then started oiling, cleaning, and installing the head studs:



After that I set the head on:

You can also see in this picture that the middle head stud is missing. This is because the header bolt thread insert extends into the hole for the stud, and must be trimmed (carefully).
I've already found another problem. The exhaust flange that I designed above, is going to interfere. I should've trusted my CAD model:


The exposed intake side:

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 05-27-2007).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #312, 05-27-2007 01:31 PM
      I then fitted the intake:




I couldn't help myself from putting the VC on too:



I wasn't too surprised about this:



I have a cheap Moroso SBC crank trigger wheel on the way that I'm going to play with.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 05-27-2007).]

slinger MSG #313, 05-27-2007 04:36 PM
      i love how you work on the motor in your house on your table i was cleanin my sbc intake in the bath tub and my mom yelled at me to get my tranny out of the house

Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #314, 05-27-2007 10:47 PM
      http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem will this help?-Jason

Emc209i (emc209i@yahoo.com) MSG #315, 05-28-2007 01:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by slinger:

i love how you work on the motor in your house on your table i was cleanin my sbc intake in the bath tub and my mom yelled at me to get my tranny out of the house


You need to learn to be sneakier

Awesome work man! That thing is crazy!


xlr2004 (xlrv_2006@sbcglobal.net) MSG #316, 05-29-2007 10:27 PM
      I have the Pontiac Motorsports SuperDuty Parts List scanned into an Adobe .PDF file, but don't think I can post it here.
Includes.......4 Cyl, V6, V8_SB, V8_BB, Vendors

Don't have time right now to convert pages to individual images of proper size to post. Probably gonna regret this later, but for now, if anyone wants it, send me a P.M. with your e-mail address. I'd be interested in knowing a good file posting site as well.

Mark


1984fiero MSG #317, 05-29-2007 11:03 PM
      that is awesome where did you get that edelbrock intake and that valve cover

fierosound (fierosound2@shaw.ca) MSG #318, 05-31-2007 09:21 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 1984fiero:

that is awesome where did you get that edelbrock intake and that valve cover


Although they are Edelbrock, you can only get them through GM.
I see they have them here: http://www.gmpartsdirect.com

Edelbrock/GM 4-bbl manifold - GM PN 10038470
Edelbrock/GM SD4 PONTIAC valve cover - GM PN 10031327



xlr2004 (xlrv_2006@sbcglobal.net) MSG #319, 05-31-2007 11:55 AM
      They also carry the gasket for the Intake....p/n 12371032.


KurtAKX MSG #320, 05-31-2007 03:35 PM
      NBD on the flange interference thing with the block. 10 minutes with an angle grinder to the offending parts of the flanges will fix the problem right up.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #321, 06-01-2007 08:33 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

NBD on the flange interference thing with the block. 10 minutes with an angle grinder to the offending parts of the flanges will fix the problem right up.


Yeah, it's not anything that can't be taken care of. One thing I am worried about is how close the top outer holes are to the ports. I've been contemplating making an adapter to move the pattern out farther on those holes.

PS, I pwn page niner.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 06-01-2007).]

Greg_zee_German (greghessey@cox.net) MSG #322, 06-02-2007 07:15 AM
      This is my first post on this forum. I spent the last 2 hours catching up on the last 3 years of your life. You sir, are a credit to the Fiero community. Keep these pics coming.

P.S. Are you married? If so, please crate up your wife and send her to Norfolk, VA. Here she may be able to shed some of here unbelievable perfection upon my wife. If you're not.........then don't get one till you're done!!!


Toddster (toddamelio@gmail.com) MSG #323, 06-02-2007 08:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Greg_zee_German:

This is my first post on this forum. I spent the last 2 hours catching up on the last 3 years of your life. You sir, are a credit to the Fiero community. Keep these pics coming.

P.S. Are you married? If so, please crate up your wife and send her to Norfolk, VA. Here she may be able to shed some of here unbelievable perfection upon my wife. If you're not.........then don't get one till you're done!!!


Let me be the first to give you the old howdy doo.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #324, 06-02-2007 11:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Greg_zee_German:

This is my first post on this forum. I spent the last 2 hours catching up on the last 3 years of your life. You sir, are a credit to the Fiero community. Keep these pics coming.

P.S. Are you married? If so, please crate up your wife and send her to Norfolk, VA. Here she may be able to shed some of here unbelievable perfection upon my wife. If you're not.........then don't get one till you're done!!!


Thank you! I hope this thread serves as a reminder of the fantastic resource that the other members of this board have been to me. I've gotten alot of help in technical matters, and alot of pep when I just got bored with it.

As far as being married....My fiance says she will probably kill me if I push the wedding date back .

Stay tuned, more exciting progress in a while.
Nate


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #325, 06-04-2007 04:19 PM
      Soooooo......
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I bought a DOHC head.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 06-04-2007).]

p8ntman442 (spaldingj@wit.edu) MSG #326, 06-04-2007 05:42 PM
      you want cams with that?

dratts (dratts2@gmail.com) MSG #327, 06-04-2007 06:57 PM
      Did you buy those super duty parts on ebay for $3000+?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #328, 06-04-2007 07:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dratts:

Did you buy those super duty parts on ebay for $3000+?


Yep. Should be shipping out tomorrow.


Fieroseverywhere (caalon777@hotmail.com) MSG #329, 06-04-2007 09:11 PM
      So let me get this straight. This car will have a DOHC turbo super duty engine with nitrious?

You truely are a madman. Cant wait to see it run!

I guess that would make it a DOHC-SD4-T + N20 fiero huh? hehe

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 06-04-2007).]

RWDPLZ MSG #330, 06-05-2007 12:03 AM
     

Just get it running already!!!



project86gt (dmorimanno@newhavencpu.com) MSG #331, 06-05-2007 05:39 AM
      I just spent almost 30 min reading this post from the first page to the last,and I must say that,you,Mr.Nate,you are insane!!!I love it and can't get enough!!!

Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #332, 06-05-2007 07:00 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

Soooooo......
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I bought a DOHC head.



Glad I could help! -Jason



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #333, 06-05-2007 08:08 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierofreak00:


Glad I could help! -Jason


Yes, I probably never would have seen it if you hadn't put the link up. Thanks!


KurtAKX MSG #334, 06-05-2007 11:48 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

Soooooo......
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I bought a DOHC head.



Soooo......
Guess you won't be needing that 2 valve head anymore.... shipping to 48504?


Fastback 86 MSG #335, 06-05-2007 08:30 PM
      I knew it. You can't say no to this project.

Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #336, 06-05-2007 09:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:


Yes, I probably never would have seen it if you hadn't put the link up. Thanks!


Believe it or not, you were the first person I thought of when I seen that auction. Glad you got it, keep posting the pics I want to see this project done. -Jason



Hudini (hudini@tds.net) MSG #337, 06-06-2007 12:26 AM
      Can I ask where the MAT sensor goes in relation to the turbo, before or after?

SCCA FIERO MSG #338, 06-06-2007 02:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:
Just get it running already!!!



Just give him 10 more years. He's gonna have to start hooking to pay for that head.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #339, 06-06-2007 08:33 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:
Can I ask where the MAT sensor goes in relation to the turbo, before or after?


The air temperature sensor always goes after the turbocharger, intercooler, and anything else that can potentially change the air temp entering the engine. The closer it is to the cylinder head, the better it's going to reflect the actual temperature of the air entering the combustion chamber.


 
quote
Originally posted by SCCA FIERO:
Just give him 10 more years. He's gonna have to start hooking to pay for that head.


Who's first?!?!


RandomTask (jguer003@odu.edu) MSG #340, 06-06-2007 09:44 AM
      Can I get a linky to the Super duty head that he bought? I'm want to see some automotive p*rn.

Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #341, 06-06-2007 12:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:

Can I get a linky to the Super duty head that he bought? I'm want to see some automotive p*rn.


 
quote
Originally posted by Fierofreak00:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem will this help?-Jason



RandomTask (jguer003@odu.edu) MSG #342, 06-06-2007 01:38 PM
      Oh I saw that but last I looked at it, it was going for $300. jeesh!

88 Silver Formula (adam@nesman.net) MSG #343, 06-06-2007 08:48 PM
      ^ you mean 3,000 $?? lol O M F G !!!...somone needs to sponser this guy....

88 Silver Formula (adam@nesman.net) MSG #344, 06-06-2007 11:05 PM
      well with all that hard work and time spent into this i think its only nessassary for you to put that multi thousand dallar 4 cyl into a very nice/mint 88 silver formula...only 262 made....hmmmm??? hmmmmm??? and it even has a high dallar 3400 in the rear to your dispossal..just work its "tic" bug out..and its a sweet eng!...feast your eyes...








whatchs think??? $ 14.999?? reasonable price i may say? hmmmm?? whatcha think!!???

[This message has been edited by 88 Silver Formula (edited 06-06-2007).]

88 Silver Formula (adam@nesman.net) MSG #345, 06-07-2007 01:28 PM
      bump ety bump?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #346, 06-07-2007 03:38 PM
      $15,000?!?! Thanks, already have an Indy to put it in though I already owe money to people I don't want to owe too, lol.

I'm hoping that the head gets here sometime next week. The anticipation is killing me.

Nate


88 Silver Formula (adam@nesman.net) MSG #347, 06-07-2007 06:18 PM
      well it is a VERY clean nice 88 formula tho? heuh? lol...it was half a joke lol..its amazing what some of these 88's go for nowa days...seing them for 13,000 to 17,000 isnt uncommon...glad i stole mine from an ol lady for 2,900$ lol blue book value.. and yes i cant wait for you to get that head!!...what cams are you gona use?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #348, 06-11-2007 04:24 PM
      Still working on resolving the cam issue (that is, they couldn't find any). Kit could be here this week. Been working on figuring out the driveline/trans setup.

ambfiero MSG #349, 06-11-2007 11:08 PM
      I see you have been just working on the engine since 2004. WOW thats a long time.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #350, 06-13-2007 03:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ambfiero:

I see you have been just working on the engine since 2004. WOW thats a long time.


Yeah, I actually started building the engine in mid 2003. Started school in '04, so that's a college student's budget for ya. My parents have kicked in alot of money, which I really appreaciate. If I had the money, this thing would be done much sooner, I have to let the bank account replenish every once and a while. I don't regard this project as being important enough to go into debt for.

I've been kicking around some transmission ideas, since I don't REALLY have one I can use with this engine, I have alot of options there. Right now it's either a heavily modded Getrag 282, modded G6 6-spd, or heavily modded 4t65E HD. I'm leaning heavily towards the manual transmissions. I made a calculator in Excel that gives me everything I want and plots it out on a graph, and I've been tossing around different ratios from stock transmissions, as well as some hybrid ratios.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #351, 06-18-2007 09:42 AM
      Head arrives on Tuesday, can't wait.

Fieroseverywhere (caalon777@hotmail.com) MSG #352, 06-18-2007 10:46 AM
      Neither can we!

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #353, 06-19-2007 06:55 PM
     







88 Silver Formula (adam@nesman.net) MSG #354, 06-19-2007 07:07 PM
     

Fieroseverywhere (caalon777@hotmail.com) MSG #355, 06-19-2007 07:30 PM
      Oooooooh, purdy. Everything looks polished already. Not much head work there!

So when do you start assembly?


Cowabunga_kid MSG #356, 06-19-2007 07:33 PM
      Man I can't wait to hear that baby purr, keep at it bro.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #357, 06-22-2007 07:41 PM
      Work progresses with getting all the DOHC stuff sorted out. The bad news: I'm missing the cams, snub cam and cam drive gears, as well as the front timing cover assembly. The good news is that all of the small stuff like valve retainers, chain guide, O-rings, fasteners, gaskets, etc is there, and in very good condition. The timing chain is still in cosmoline.

So, if anyone knows where to find those parts....POST IT!


Hudini (hudini@tds.net) MSG #358, 06-22-2007 11:50 PM
      You think Cosworth can help? They made that head, didn't they?

http://www.cosworth.com/con...ageid=2&contentid=87

Kansas Racing Products has allot of Super Duty stuff. Supposedly, they have manufacturing rights to the engine.

http://www.kansasracingproducts.com/notes.html

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 06-22-2007).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #359, 07-01-2007 07:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:

You think Cosworth can help? They made that head, didn't they?

http://www.cosworth.com/con...ageid=2&contentid=87

Kansas Racing Products has allot of Super Duty stuff. Supposedly, they have manufacturing rights to the engine.

http://www.kansasracingproducts.com/notes.html



Thanks. I had contacted Cosworth immediately following winning the auction. Right now I'm waiting for paperwork regarding that kit to be pulled from their archives.

Concerning KRP...I had been working with them pretty closely from about 2004-2006, and they are the ones I bought my crank from, as well as supplied me other small parts and information. I went to their shop in 2004, and they have some pretty cool stuff there. I DO need to get back in touch with them, however, for something unrelated to the DOHC head.

So the current standing is that I'm STILL looking for the front timing plates and cams. No other progress, I'll keep it posted!

Nate


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #360, 07-16-2007 09:37 PM
      Been working on the CAD model for the head, also been doing things like wieghing valve train components, pistons, rods, etc. Save a total of



I just ordered parts for a new PC from newegg that I'm going to put together, before this I was GOING to try to get ahold of a dry sump pump on eBay and an aluminum pan from KRP.

1 ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813131013
$139.99

1 MSI NX8600GTS-T2D256E-OC GeForce 8600GTS 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Over Clock Edition HDCP Video Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16814127284
$164.99

1 Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822148140
$79.99

1 AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz Socket AM2 Processor Model ADX6000CZBOX - Retail
Item #: N82E16819103773
$169.99

1 ZALMAN CNPS9500 LED 92mm 2 Ball Cooling Fan with Heatsink - Retail
Item #: N82E16835118223
$53.99

1 RAZER RZ01-00150100-R2M1 Black 5 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Optical DeathAdder High Precision Gaming Mouse - Retail
Item #: N82E16826153007
$51.99

1 COOLER MASTER RS-550-ACLY ATX12V / EPS12V 550W Power Supply - Retail
Item #: N82E16817171009
$99.99

1 G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ - Retail
Item #: N82E16820231098
$89.99

Total: $858.93


Toddster (toddamelio@gmail.com) MSG #361, 07-16-2007 10:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:


Thanks. I had contacted Cosworth immediately following winning the auction. Right now I'm waiting for paperwork regarding that kit to be pulled from their archives.

Nate


I wouldn't mind a copy of that when you get it.


KurtAKX MSG #362, 07-17-2007 12:23 AM
      When you get this info, for sure post it online somewhere! I am interested in what you do for cams and such.

crytical point (thomasgilmartin@hotmail.com) MSG #363, 07-19-2007 04:53 PM
      Wow I just realized how much that cyl head looks like the one on my 2.0 cosworth. The port shape and sizes and location is identical though its nice to see it coming together.

niemann99 MSG #364, 07-20-2007 10:34 PM
      Say, I have been following this thread and I must say that you are INSANE. That's a compliment, son. I think I may have something for you on camshafts, it's only a lead, but, having dealth with finding rare parts myself, I know that any lead helps.

If you go to http://www.aardemasohc.net/index_files/Page517.htm you'll see where he adapted TWO Fiero Cosworth heads to an aluminum Donovan Chevy block. Reading further, it says that he had Schneider camshafts grind his cams from billet.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #365, 07-21-2007 11:03 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by niemann99:

Say, I have been following this thread and I must say that you are INSANE. That's a compliment, son. I think I may have something for you on camshafts, it's only a lead, but, having dealth with finding rare parts myself, I know that any lead helps.

If you go to http://www.aardemasohc.net/index_files/Page517.htm you'll see where he adapted TWO Fiero Cosworth heads to an aluminum Donovan Chevy block. Reading further, it says that he had Schneider camshafts grind his cams from billet.


Thanks, I think.

About those cams...SWEET! That link could end up helping ALOT. I found their website before, but apparently it was an old version, didn't have the link or info about the cams. Thanks!


Mr.PBody (paniccia008@aol.com) MSG #366, 07-23-2007 01:04 AM
      Bump, what happened to the SOHC head?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #367, 07-23-2007 10:12 AM
      It's actually a SUHC head, I still have it in case I can't make the DOHC work.

Mr.PBody (paniccia008@aol.com) MSG #368, 07-23-2007 06:03 PM
      Oh, so the SD4 is a pushrod I-4? Sorry SUHC sounds funny to me...

Did you ever get ahold of cams? This project is so sweet I want a DOHC SD4 now forget V6s. What kind of power do you think you'll get 500? WIth 370 n/a cars 500 seem plausible. What tranny are you going to run?


niemann99 MSG #369, 07-23-2007 10:43 PM
      You are very welcome, hope you can track down some cams, I'm sure everyone here would LOVE to see that super duty engine running with the DOHC kit.

crytical point (thomasgilmartin@hotmail.com) MSG #370, 07-26-2007 01:05 AM
      Maybe cams for a cosworth vega would work because the DOHC head is just like it and I know crane cams has a couple grinds and cams they offer for the cosworth head. its woth checking out because I am doing something similar with a 2.0 DOHC vega block and any little help is worth it.

thebaron (eric.murray@tekkoshocon.com) MSG #371, 07-26-2007 10:09 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mr.PBody:

Oh, so the SD4 is a pushrod I-4? Sorry SUHC sounds funny to me...

Did you ever get ahold of cams? This project is so sweet I want a DOHC SD4 now forget V6s. What kind of power do you think you'll get 500? WIth 370 n/a cars 500 seem plausible. What tranny are you going to run?


What the heck is SUHC? Wonder what type of power that V8 with the SD4 heads put out?


Fastback 86 MSG #372, 07-26-2007 12:46 PM
      Single Under Head Cam, a.k.a. Pushrod.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #373, 07-26-2007 01:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by crytical point:

Maybe cams for a cosworth vega would work because the DOHC head is just like it and I know crane cams has a couple grinds and cams they offer for the cosworth head. its woth checking out because I am doing something similar with a 2.0 DOHC vega block and any little help is worth it.


That's what I thought at first too...Unfortunately it's a no-go. Here's a pic of the Vega topside:

This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.
And a pic of my topside:


On the SD head, the cam bearing bosses are located in between the valve tappet bores. This is a good thing because it minimizes cam flex by reducing the distance from the load on the cam to the support. On the Vega head, however, the cam bearings are located to either side of a set of valves for a single cylinder. In addition, the Vega motor, as well as other 4cyl Cosworth engines, use belt-driven camshafts, whereas the SD head uses a chain drive.

So the camshafts that I need are actually extremely similar to the Cosworth XB, XD, and XF series of Champ Car engines:
This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.
Same bearing arrangement, also chain driven camshafts, it even has the same valve/port angle. but I doubt the bore and valve spacing is the same.

And if you thought your pushrod Duke cam gear was noisy...
This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.
Imagine that at 13,000 RPM.

 
quote
Originally posted by thebaron:
What the heck is SUHC? Wonder what type of power that V8 with the SD4 heads put out?


Single Under Head Cam. The 2.65 litre Cosworth XF V8 with similar heads put out 800HP on methanol and boost. Add another 3 litres of displacement....


crytical point (thomasgilmartin@hotmail.com) MSG #374, 07-27-2007 04:20 AM
      bummer ... but worth a try mentioning. Is the SD4 head 2 piece or solid because mine is 2 piece on the vega. I am really impressed by cosworth's design and over all performance combined with reliability. Currently the cosworth club is working with Fidanza to get some adjustable sprokets but when that is done I could spin the engine to 11,000 and make a potent race car but I am going turbo but I will not hit your hp numbers or anywhere near them. I should be sitting at 420-450 hp at 8500 and 37psi but to be safe I will sit at just 400hp and 32psi but my engine will weight in at 260lbs wet with all accessories which willbring my car to a little under 1700lbs and a near perfect 50/50 distribution roblem is keeping in staight at top rpm.

thebaron (eric.murray@tekkoshocon.com) MSG #375, 07-30-2007 09:47 PM
      How are you planning to cool this monster of a 4 banger? Intercooler for the turbo? How about bringing her to a halt? What is planned for the rest of car?

30+mpg (wshaw@par1.net) MSG #376, 07-30-2007 10:09 PM
     

A couple of good heads (along with some other goodies bolted on).

[This message has been edited by 30+mpg (edited 07-30-2007).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #377, 07-31-2007 01:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by thebaron:

How are you planning to cool this monster of a 4 banger? Intercooler for the turbo? How about bringing her to a halt? What is planned for the rest of car?


Planning on using some kind of aftermarket radiator. The IC is an air/water Spearco, I think it's on page 5, I'll run that with a full width heat exchanger up front. The stopping is yet to be determined, I have stock rears and the GA upgrade fronts. Right now I'm thinking 13" Wilwood GT rotors and hats with Red Devil 300 Series calipers that I already have for a different project that they were too heavy for.




I begin on suspension and interior improvements after the engine is finished and the car sees the track at least once.


Mr.PBody (paniccia008@aol.com) MSG #378, 08-04-2007 11:17 PM
      Looking sweet. Any good news on cams?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #379, 08-06-2007 04:16 PM
      No news, I e-mailed a couple of places that haven't responded yet. Apparently I need to try the telephone.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #380, 08-20-2007 02:12 PM
     



Something along the lines of what I might build for the DOHC intake.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #381, 09-10-2007 10:03 PM
      Just a little update...I'm in school right now, working also, and now getting ready to start building a house with my fiance by the end of the year. Soooo....IOW.......No REAL progress on this project. Funds are getting stretched thin a little bit. I'm passively looking for camshafts, but I doubt I would be able to afford them right now even if I found them.

OTOH, I have been investigating in-depth this ECM:
http://www.vems.hu/products.html
http://shop.vems.hu/catalog...ath=1&products_id=29

It's very powerful, not as user friendly as the MegaSquirt, and it costs much more. The lowest price that I could come to for a unit that would suit me was about $700, including alot of the wiring and connectors. BUT it does 8 individual sequential injector control, and I can run REAL COP with it instead of wasted spark. It's also a wideband sensor controller, and it does these things out of the box. I'll have to see where it's at when I get to the "actually ready to get an ECM" stage.

Back to HW...
Nate


Fastback 86 MSG #382, 09-11-2007 03:08 AM
      Why bother? By the time you get to the "actually need an ECM" stage, the internal combustion will be obsolete.

88 Silver Formula (adam@nesman.net) MSG #383, 09-11-2007 09:56 PM
      harsh..

30+mpg (wshaw@par1.net) MSG #384, 09-13-2007 09:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 88 Silver Formula:

harsh..

but true.


InaneCathode (inane.cathode@gmail.com) MSG #385, 09-13-2007 09:59 PM
      Internal combustion is already obsolete :P

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #386, 09-14-2007 10:44 AM
      C'mon guys, at least I'm making it flex-fuel compatible...C16 and Methanol

The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #387, 09-17-2007 02:20 AM
      Ok Something to note here. I was just watching the 1988 IMSA race from San Antonio Tx and they had a piece about the Pontiac Spice Fiero's that were running the new 4 valve head(Cosworth) The teams had decided to go back to using the regular 2 valve heads because the Cosworth heads made the engine very Peaky and they had alot of relyability problems with them. So before you invest all that cash in all the other parts you may need to finish the head part you may want to do some further research on how good they were. I will try and rip that segment from the vid if I can and post it to YouTube. I am watich this thread closely because it is something I want to do as well. I have 1 Early SD-4 block(used), 1 early SD-4 iron head(used). 1 "433" aluminum head(new). 1 "801" head(new). One 2bbl intake (used and set up for FI). One 4bbl intake (new). And one Kinsler style 4 throat FI Intake(new). I have a custom Oil pan that came On my IMSA. Looks like a stock one with the sump part extended and places for the oil to drain down from the intake. I also have a Hamburger aluminum oil pan that is "HUGE". Only other real important things I have are two marine cranks.

This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.

Hope some of this helps.


The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #388, 09-18-2007 04:03 AM
      Ok it's 4am and I am actually feeling kinda good and my head is clear which couldn't be said only a few hours ago. Here is the Youtube Video I promised regarding the IMSA Pontiac SuperDuty 4 cylinder. Hope some of you enjoy it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BJJ3DHs5cs


gem1138 (m3wheeler@yahoo.com) MSG #389, 09-18-2007 11:00 AM
      Grasshopper,
A wise man knows that we are all idiots. He who thinks otherwise is also foolish.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #390, 09-18-2007 01:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by The_Stickman2:

Ok it's 4am and I am actually feeling kinda good and my head is clear which couldn't be said only a few hours ago. Here is the Youtube Video I promised regarding the IMSA Pontiac SuperDuty 4 cylinder. Hope some of you enjoy it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BJJ3DHs5cs


Cool video, thank you! I'm going to try posting up some Engine Analyzer data later today.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #391, 09-26-2007 05:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:


Cool video, thank you! I'm going to try posting up some Engine Analyzer data later today.


Right...ALL of my data/pics/everything is on my OLD hard drive...*sigh*

More work.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #392, 10-01-2007 09:15 PM
      Okay, I just hooked up my old HD and am in the process of sorting through 140GB of crap, decided to throw some stuff up.

This data was generated using my camshaft specs, head flow numbers, valve train component weights, turbocharger size/efficiency, intercooler pressure drop, etc. for the 2v head. At 4000 RPM a 150HP shot of direct port nitrous is added. This is SAE corrected, 77*.



If anyone feels ambitious, here is the data dump from the simulation:
code:

Engine_RPM 3500 3750 4000 4250 4500 4750 5000 5250 5500 5750 6000 6250 6500 6750 7000 7250 7500 7750 8000 8250
Brk_Tq 149 166 806 800 791 788 773 760 750 733 710 695 678 654 629 604 578 552 530 509
Brake_HP 99.1 119 614 647 678 713 736 760 785 803 811 827 839 840 839 834 826 815 808 800
Exh_Pres 1.2 1.6 15.6 16.4 17.1 18.1 18.9 19.7 20.6 21.5 22.1 22.9 24.4 25.3 25.4 25.9 26.4 26.5 27.3 27.2
Boost 1.0 1.5 29.9 29.8 29.8 29.8 29.8 29.8 29.7 29.7 29.7 29.7 29.7 29.6 29.6 29.6 29.6 29.6 29.6 29.6
Vol_Eff 85.4 93.9 326.0 331.1 333.7 336.0 336.7 336.6 334.2 331.6 327.2 324.5 320.2 313.5 306.0 298.8 290.1 282.1 274.7 267.3
Actual_CFM 135 159 590 637 679 722 762 800 832 863 888 918 942 957 969 980 984 989 994 998
Fuel_Flow 47.26 55.7 206 222 237 252 266 279 291 301 310 321 329 334 339 342 344 346 347 349
Nitrous 0.00 0.00 482 482 482 482 482 482 482 482 482 482 482 482 482 482 482 482 482 482
Ntrs_Fuel 0.00 0.00 67.5 67.5 67.5 67.5 67.5 67.5 67.5 67.5 67.5 67.5 67.5 67.5 67.5 67.5 67.5 67.5 67.5 67.5
BMEP 143 160 777 771 763 760 745 733 723 707 684 670 654 630 607 583 558 532 512 491
A/F_Mxtr_Qlty 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0 100.0
BSFC 0.477 0.470 0.446 0.448 0.450 0.449 0.453 0.456 0.456 0.459 0.466 0.469 0.473 0.479 0.484 0.491 0.498 0.507 0.514 0.520
Thermal_Eff 32.71 32.92 31.08 30.97 30.90 31.02 30.77 30.63 30.72 30.57 30.21 30.07 29.96 29.69 29.47 29.15 28.89 28.52 28.30 28.08
IMEP 167 184 803 798 790 788 775 764 755 740 718 705 690 668 645 622 598 574 554 535
Frctn_Tq 24.17 25.29 26.40 27.51 28.62 29.74 30.85 31.96 33.07 34.19 35.30 36.41 37.53 38.64 39.76 40.87 41.99 43.11 44.23 45.35
Frctn_HP 16.11 18.06 20.11 22.26 24.53 26.89 29.37 31.95 34.63 37.43 40.33 43.33 46.44 49.66 53.0 56.4 60.0 63.6 67.4 71.2
FMEP 23.31 24.39 25.46 26.53 27.60 28.68 29.75 30.82 31.89 32.97 34.04 35.12 36.19 37.27 38.34 39.42 40.50 41.58 42.66 43.74
Mech_Eff 86.0 86.8 96.8 96.7 96.5 96.4 96.2 96.0 95.8 95.5 95.3 95.0 94.8 94.4 94.1 93.7 93.2 92.8 92.3 91.8
Motoring_HP 19.89 21.94 22.64 29.20 36.11 44.66 54.2 63.9 74.8 87.4 99.8 112 124 136 149 163 178 190 203 213
Pumpng_Work -3.78 -3.88 -2.53 -6.93 -11.58 -17.77 -24.80 -31.95 -40.16 -50.00 -59.5 -68.6 -77.6 -86.2 -95.7 -107 -118 -126 -135 -141
Residual_Exh 6.4 4.4 1.6 1.6 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.6 1.8 1.9 2.0 2.2 2.4 2.7 2.9 3.3 3.5 3.6 3.9 4.2
Shrt_Circuit 0.2 0.5 2.2 2.0 1.7 1.5 1.7 1.4 0.9 0.9 0.8 0.6 0.4 0.2 0.1 0.0 0.0 0.1 0.0 0.0
Exh_Temp 1363 1419 1413 1429 1441 1467 1475 1486 1513 1535 1545 1557 1566 1571 1572 1596 1600 1605 1617 1628
Mx_Cyl_Pres 797 871 3753 3756 3752 3751 3714 3691 3663 3613 3555 3504 3473 3381 3302 3224 3133 3034 2943 2870
Mx_Cyl_Tmp 4555 4648 4526 4546 4551 4578 4585 4591 4603 4599 4606 4601 4621 4595 4611 4591 4599 4602 4589 4595
In_Port_Tmp 93 90 20 21 23 24 25 25 25 24 25 24 25 26 26 28 31 34 39 43
Piston_Spd 1808 1938 2067 2196 2325 2454 2583 2713 2842 2971 3100 3229 3358 3488 3617 3746 3875 4004 4133 4263
Piston_Gs_@_TD 680 780 890 1000 1120 1250 1380 1530 1670 1830 1990 2160 2340 2520 2710 2910 3110 3320 3540 3770
Coolant_HP 37.24 39.93 37.96 40.50 43.26 46.75 49.61 52.5 56.0 59.6 62.7 65.7 69.3 72.4 76.1 80.3 83.9 86.7 90.7 94.6
Blow_By 0.9 1.0 3.9 3.9 3.9 3.9 3.9 3.8 3.8 3.8 3.7 3.7 3.6 3.6 3.5 3.4 3.3 3.2 3.1 3.1
In_Tun_Pres 0.0 0.1 2.2 2.7 3.4 4.0 4.6 5.4 5.9 6.5 7.1 7.4 7.7 8.1 8.4 8.4 8.6 8.7 8.4 8.4
Avg_In_Vel 125 134 143 151 160 169 178 187 196 205 214 223 232 240 249 258 267 276 285 294
Avg_Ex_Vel 219 234 250 266 281 297 313 328 344 360 375 391 406 422 438 453 469 485 500 516
Mach_# 0.208 0.223 0.238 0.253 0.268 0.282 0.297 0.312 0.327 0.342 0.356 0.372 0.386 0.401 0.415 0.429 0.442 0.456 0.467 0.479
Act_In_FlowAre 95.0 95.0 95.1 95.1 95.1 95.1 95.1 95.1 95.1 95.2 95.2 95.1 95.1 95.3 95.4 95.5 95.9 96.2 96.8 97.4
Act_Ex_FlowAre 94.5 94.4 92.9 92.8 92.8 92.7 92.7 92.6 92.5 92.6 92.6 92.4 92.4 92.6 92.6 92.6 93.1 93.2 93.2 93.3
Valve_Toss None None None None None None None None None None None None None None None None Exh None Int Int
Knock_Index 0.4 0.4 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.1 1.2 1.1 1.1 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0
Spark_Advnc 20.6 20.1 11.4 11.8 12.2 12.6 12.9 13.3 13.7 14.0 14.4 14.7 15.0 15.4 15.7 16.1 16.4 16.6 17.0 17.3
Injctr_Dty_Cyc 14.9 17.6 65.1 70.2 74.9 79.7 84.0 88.2 91.7 95.1 98.0 101.2 103.9 105.6 106.9 108.1 108.6 109.1 109.7 110.1
Inj_Plse_Wdth 5.1 5.6 19.5 19.8 20.0 20.1 20.2 20.2 20.0 19.9 19.6 19.4 19.2 18.8 18.3 17.9 17.4 16.9 16.5 16.0
Calc_Error 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0
Compressor_Eff 39.3 38.6 74.5 73.6 71.9 70.1 68.1 66.2 64.4 62.6 61.1 59.1 56.0 53.7 52.3 51.2 50.0 49.5 48.5 48.7
Cmprssr_Pres_R 1.07 1.10 3.06 3.06 3.06 3.06 3.06 3.06 3.06 3.06 3.06 3.06 3.06 3.06 3.06 3.06 3.06 3.06 3.06 3.06
Compressor_HP 1.6 2.6 72.4 78.6 85.7 92.9 100.7 108.5 115.8 123.6 130.1 138.5 150.2 159.3 165.3 170.5 176.2 178.2 183.4 182.5
Compressor_RPM
Roots_Vol_Eff
Turbo_Wastegt 0.0 0.0 5.3 8.1 8.8 8.8 9.0 10.0 10.0 10.0 9.3 9.1 7.0 5.6 4.4 3.2 1.9 2.1 1.6 2.3
Turbo_Surge 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0



As you can see there is a HUGE spike where the nitrous is activated and the turbo spools. I will likely have to launch above 4000RPM to keep from bogging, and blowing the tires off once it spools. In my opinion, the program over-estimated the capability of the turbo to support that much power, but I'm not sure.

I have also done some tests with the 4v head, and I think it shows HUGE promise. This is, however, with generic camshaft specs and approximations using port area for flow, and some other generalizations. Suffice it to say the chart looked much more suitable. I'm going to get some hard data on head flow and determine cam specs before I post that, though.

That is all for now...
Nate


88 Silver Formula (adam@nesman.net) MSG #393, 10-01-2007 09:48 PM
      holy nuts dude!! 811 BHP! did i misread sometihng?? whats that boil down to 700 to the wheels?
that comes out to roughly a 9.2 second 1/4 mile......if this is right you will be the first in fiero history to hit 9's (without being an nhra drag fiero)..DEFINATLY a first for a 4 banger!!


Fiero Brick MSG #394, 10-01-2007 11:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 88 Silver Formula:

holy nuts dude!! 811 BHP! did i misread sometihng?? whats that boil down to 700 to the wheels?
that comes out to roughly a 9.2 second 1/4 mile......if this is right you will be the first in fiero history to hit 9's (without being an nhra drag fiero)..DEFINATLY a first for a 4 banger!!


IIRC, when the Fiero was still hitting the drag strip professionally, some of them got into the 9's with the Super Duty.


darkhorizon MSG #395, 10-02-2007 12:08 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 88 Silver Formula:

holy nuts dude!! 811 BHP! did i misread sometihng?? whats that boil down to 700 to the wheels?
that comes out to roughly a 9.2 second 1/4 mile......if this is right you will be the first in fiero history to hit 9's (without being an nhra drag fiero)..DEFINATLY a first for a 4 banger!!


Its still considered impossible to run a 10 with a mostly streetable fiero. Now I dont actually mean that, but no one has ever proven to run a 10 with any transverse "stock" style setup with any motor (even single turbo LT1 383's )


Mr.PBody (paniccia008@aol.com) MSG #396, 10-02-2007 12:15 AM
      I hate to say it but, the computer isn't your car, I am not going to beleive 811BHP and low 9s until the car starts. Do you have any pics of whats going on right now? Not flaming or anything I just want to see this all happen.

FieroWannaBe (patond@alumni.msoe.edu) MSG #397, 10-02-2007 01:44 PM
      oops..



ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #398, 10-02-2007 02:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mr.PBody:

I hate to say it but, the computer isn't your car, I am not going to beleive 811BHP and low 9s until the car starts. Do you have any pics of whats going on right now? Not flaming or anything I just want to see this all happen.


I'm not going to believe 800hp and low 9's until there's a dyno and timeslip.

What does a "stock" superduty put out? (is there such a thing?) 140hp? 200?

If you're running 30psi, 400-600 sounds about right. Good luck anyways.... If you get close to that you're going to upset some people.


The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #399, 10-02-2007 02:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:


I'm not going to believe 800hp and low 9's until there's a dyno and timeslip.

What does a "stock" superduty put out? (is there such a thing?) 140hp? 200?

If you're running 30psi, 400-600 sounds about right. Good luck anyways.... If you get close to that you're going to upset some people.



The very streetable Indy Fiero put out a 232hp with just a 2bbl carb or TBI depending on who you talk to. Have seen pics of both used at the time. I have heard of numbers from 375-520hp from a N/A race engine. HotRod mde a streetable Fiero with the Cosworth 4 valve DOHC head that put out like 375HP. FastIndyFiero says he is going to turbo his and use nitrous. That should really bump the hp. Will it be 800? Dunno. I was figuring that a turbo SD-4 with a 2valve OHV head could do 500. Guess we will see.


darkhorizon MSG #400, 10-02-2007 02:32 PM
      Assuming it flows in the same ballpark to what a dohc head can flow, 600 horsepower is not at all far off. The only problem i see is the fact you will need to run MORE than 30psi of boost.

I think an hx40 or hx55 holset would do this for you. They live at 30psi, and can even go higher without to much efficiency loss.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #401, 10-02-2007 06:09 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

Assuming it flows in the same ballpark to what a dohc head can flow, 600 horsepower is not at all far off. The only problem i see is the fact you will need to run MORE than 30psi of boost.

I think an hx40 or hx55 holset would do this for you. They live at 30psi, and can even go higher without to much efficiency loss.


Peak flow is almost 280CFM for my 2v head, not fantastic, but it's no slouch. I'm also not sure why you think I will need to run more than 30 psi. I already have a Garrett GT3776, 76mm compressor wheel, HX55 is slightly smaller at 72mm.

I almost forgot to add, also, that this is computed with 110 octane, and icewater in the IC. Obviously on pump gas it would be much less. I have no idea if I could hit 800HP, if I'm going to try I'm probably going to need another set of injectors. Historically this program has been very accurate...Only one way to find out
(I think the "one way to find out" is MORE MONEY)


darkhorizon MSG #402, 10-02-2007 08:27 PM
      the moltron #65's that you can get and still run high imped, will limit you to 400-500 horsepower anyway, just go all out and get the 1500CC injectors and call it a day. (about 150# injectors lol)



86FieroCentPa (james.neidigh@gmail.com) MSG #403, 10-02-2007 09:51 PM
      Im sorry I dont have anything productive to add to this thread. Other than I have been following it for awhile, and I think that this motor will be amazing.....But this 800HP stuff just reminded me. You're lucky that your thread didnt fall to these dogs....

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/086397.html


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #404, 10-24-2007 10:38 AM
      I was surfing the net in between classes and found this, thought it was pretty sweet.
http://www.hotrod.com/featu...cylinder_engine.html

1030hp/680lb-ft of torque on 20PSI. Yikes! The new-tech old-4cyl approach worked well for them...


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #405, 11-07-2007 07:28 PM
      Been getting bored again...Also following yet another lead on camshafts....

So I've been designing a new 4-bolt splayed cap (again). My cap girdle got me thinking about how thermal expansion affects cap and bearing deformation, and the results are pretty amazing. I've been testing various cap geometries to try to get the least deformation at the crank-cap interface. The standard cap geometry used by most vehicles does some interesting things when heated to 200*F. I don't have any pics of the test results yet, but here's one design I've gone through:




Nate


RandomTask (jguer003@odu.edu) MSG #406, 11-07-2007 07:33 PM
      Catia?

Mr.PBody (paniccia008@aol.com) MSG #407, 11-07-2007 09:57 PM
      As of today in what state is the motor in? Are you nearing completion? I have been following this thread forever!

KurtAKX MSG #408, 11-08-2007 12:33 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mr.PBody:

As of today in what state is the motor in? Are you nearing completion? I have been following this thread forever!


I bet its farther from assembled than it was at this time last year



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #409, 11-08-2007 04:12 PM
      Heh, I think it actually might be LESS assembled than this time last year. At this point, all I need is some deciding factor to either use the Cossie stuff or the Pontiac stuff I already have. It seems like I've come 10 miles, and the long block is only about 1 inch away from being done (and done right too) if I use the Pontiac head. Lack of parts might end up nixing the Cosworth gear, but it's always been what I really wanted to try. The geometry of the Cossie head allows me to make optimizations with the intake and exhaust system that I wasn't able to do with the Pontiac head, and I think in a street environment the Cossie would probably be more reliable.

Anyway, the State of the Motor Address, by item (using Pontiac SD parts):
BLOCK - Needs to be plateau honed .002" and a couple oil holes on the deck plugged.
Crank/Rods/Pistons - Done
Head - Coated, P&P'd, Flowed, needs to be reassembled
Intake - Done
Oil Pan - Need one
Valve train - Need pushrods
Exhaust - Need to go through a few more header designs, it's a PITA
Clutch/Trans - Need to determine gear ratios => Trans => Trans spacer and spline for 3 disc 5.5" clutch
Engine management - Ehhhh......Haven't decided how done I am on this yet. (VEMS? MS-II? Big $tuff 3?)

This is your State of the Motor


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #410, 11-08-2007 04:18 PM
      Forgot pics from my FEA results...
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
Because of where I constrained the mock engine block, the displacement of the cap is shifted on the scale. I'm EXTREMELY happy with how this design has turned out, there is VERY little deformation of the cap bearing surface (around .00004" variation) when thermal and bolt-tightening loads are applied. The stock SD main cap was around .002" at the top of the cap bearing surface.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.



RandomTask (jguer003@odu.edu) MSG #411, 11-08-2007 05:11 PM
      So did you hear anything back from cosworth about your cam stuff?

*fap* *fap* *fap* as I go through this thread. . .


30+mpg (wshaw@par1.net) MSG #412, 11-08-2007 09:53 PM
      Hey Fast,

How much have you actually driven your Indy in the last 3 years?


The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #413, 11-08-2007 10:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

Heh, I think it actually might be LESS assembled than this time last year. At this point, all I need is some deciding factor to either use the Cossie stuff or the Pontiac stuff I already have. It seems like I've come 10 miles, and the long block is only about 1 inch away from being done (and done right too) if I use the Pontiac head. Lack of parts might end up nixing the Cosworth gear, but it's always been what I really wanted to try. The geometry of the Cossie head allows me to make optimizations with the intake and exhaust system that I wasn't able to do with the Pontiac head, and I think in a street environment the Cossie would probably be more reliable.

Anyway, the State of the Motor Address, by item (using Pontiac SD parts):
BLOCK - Needs to be plateau honed .002" and a couple oil holes on the deck plugged.
Crank/Rods/Pistons - Done
Head - Coated, P&P'd, Flowed, needs to be reassembled
Intake - Done
Oil Pan - Need one
Valve train - Need pushrods
Exhaust - Need to go through a few more header designs, it's a PITA
Clutch/Trans - Need to determine gear ratios => Trans => Trans spacer and spline for 3 disc 5.5" clutch
Engine management - Ehhhh......Haven't decided how done I am on this yet. (VEMS? MS-II? Big $tuff 3?)

This is your State of the Motor



Ah!! you need an Oil pan. You should get one like this. I will need to have it modified to use the stock motor mount bracket but that shouldn't be hard. I wonder how many quarts it holds. I also have the one that came on my IMSA which looks like a stock oil pan with the sump modified and two tubes for the drain down from the intake. BTW I in no way paid anywhere near that $508 price tag you see on the pan.








FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #414, 11-14-2007 07:21 PM
      Bored again.





Right now it's REALLY messy, and isn't the configuration I want, but it's buildable.


RandomTask (jguer003@odu.edu) MSG #415, 11-15-2007 08:31 AM
      just some quick tips on your exhaust, route them into the collector in correspondence with the firing order. By this, I mean, have the first cylinder that fires, next to the 2nd. Have the 2nd next to the 3rd, the 3rd next to the 4th, and the 4th next to the first. With this, it keeps a velocity (less turbulence) in your exhaust, increasing the scavanger effect. May not seem like much, but i've seen 5hp gains in 105 hp 600cc engines by ONLY doing this.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #416, 12-02-2007 09:41 PM
      My turbo uses a divided turbine housing, so cylinder pairs 1-4 and 2-3 will be seperated from each other. This also means that the turbo C/L will be running fore/aft, so I might need to "clearance" the front firewall a bit. Or I may still design one that puts the turbo C/L running transverse. Don't know yet. That involves physical mockup that I need to do...

Here's a very short video of my more refined exhaust model:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-EQsGb0q9k


88 Silver Formula (adam@nesman.net) MSG #417, 12-02-2007 10:45 PM
      any more updated?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #418, 12-24-2007 03:47 PM
     



I'm pretty sure it's done...Length from head flange to collector is 19". Each runner is composed of 4 seperate bends, 3 welds required for each, plus the transition from oval to round.


The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #419, 12-24-2007 09:40 PM
      Why use 4 single flanges vs one large flange?



RandomTask (jguer003@odu.edu) MSG #420, 12-28-2007 08:21 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by The_Stickman2:

Why use 4 single flanges vs one large flange?



You say tomato I say tomato. . . Just a different way, four flanges will actually give you a little more adjustability and less weight Also, when you build off one flange, you might hit some tolerance stack.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #421, 12-30-2007 12:48 AM
      Using individual flanges puts less stress on the head...Thermal strains at 1200* are pretty high in aluminum. When coupled to a thick steel plate (the exhaust flange) that doesn't expand as much, it puts alot of stress on fasteners and the head. By using 4 single flanges, the stress induced on a fastener is from a 2-3" length of steel expanding instead of 18" of steel expanding. Granted, the header tubes still have to flex pretty much the same distance, but there's not really any way to get around that. Also, it saves a little weight and looks cool.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #422, 12-30-2007 09:28 PM
      I put in an email RFQ for 321 stainless flanges for the 16V today with SPD Exhaust. Looks like they do really good work, I think I probably don't want to know how much these flanges are going to be. I might have them make me a collector too, but it's too soon for that.

http://www.spdexhaust.com/HomeB.html


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #423, 01-05-2008 04:35 PM
      I found the guy who bought Toddster's DOHC head, that had cams with it. VERY cool guy, said he didn't have a problem with me using his cams to reproduce a set for myself. He also needs a front cover though, I was hoping that I can find one so I can get dim's to make one for myself. With any luck I could have a set of cams made. I think between the two of us we should be able to figure out solutions to our common problems. If nothing else, I've met another friend along way.

Also going to be ordering some mild steel tube sometime this week and start building a prototype header.


cowan1984 MSG #424, 01-05-2008 08:05 PM
      I have GOT to see this car when you get it done. You should park it behind velvet ropes and charge $50 a ride, you'll make back part of what you spent on that head!

Seriously though, you've got to let everyone on PFF know if you put it in a show, I'm not the only one who's dying to drool in your engine compartment.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #425, 01-14-2008 11:11 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cowan1984:

I have GOT to see this car when you get it done. You should park it behind velvet ropes and charge $50 a ride, you'll make back part of what you spent on that head!

Seriously though, you've got to let everyone on PFF know if you put it in a show, I'm not the only one who's dying to drool in your engine compartment.


Hehe, when I get done I'll be too old and senile to drive. I'll have to pay for someone to drive me around in it. Thanks for the compliment

Right now I'm undertaking a COMPLETE inventory of my DOHC equipment, every nut, bolt, and random part. I was also going to order steel for my proto exhaust but I've been having a hard time finding 1-7/8" diameter bends on a 4" CLR, where it exits the head. That may be something I need to change in the design.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 01-14-2008).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #426, 01-30-2008 10:53 AM
      I've been talking to a couple camshaft manufacturers that do one-off camshaft cutting/grinding. Keep in mind that no camshaft cores exist for this head, so the core has to be cut on a CNC lathe before it's ground. There are no cam grinding master plates either, which means that it also has to be CNC ground. When you factor in those requirements, prices go up and available sources go down to practically nothing. So far I've found 2 companies that can do this.

One is Integral Cams Inc. They do ground-up cam design. I would send them physically measured head flow numbers as well as complete valvetrain and intended engine specs, and a sample camshaft or a drawing. From there they would design intake and exhaust profiles and do a complete analysis on the entire cycle throught the RPM range...That's pretty cool.

BUT, I got quoted $2500 from the point where I send them sample cams to where I'm holding my own 2 heat-treated billet perfect camshafts.

The other place is Custom Camshaft Co. I have yet to get back with them on details, but it looks like they might be cheaper, though I'm not sure they have the same design capability.

Goodbye $$$$$.


The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #427, 01-30-2008 03:11 PM
      EEK!!!! That's alot of cash just for cams. Is using that head worth the expense?



Mr.PBody (paniccia008@aol.com) MSG #428, 01-30-2008 05:38 PM
      I think so, hes spent so much on the head itself and the head it so rare, may as well use it.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #429, 02-12-2008 05:11 PM
      The original cams:



The passenger-side thrust/support bearing:

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I don't have the bearing all the way in as it seems to be press fit, but you can see the idea.


Mr.PBody (paniccia008@aol.com) MSG #430, 02-12-2008 05:18 PM
      I am getting all giddy, come on get those cams made!

30+mpg (wshaw@par1.net) MSG #431, 02-12-2008 06:07 PM
      . . . .
1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . 7 . 8 . 9 10 11

Somebody wake me when the engine fires up!

[This message has been edited by 30+mpg (edited 03-03-2008).]

KurtAKX MSG #432, 02-12-2008 11:47 PM
      Do you have those original cams in your possession?

If so, you could probably have them reground on essentially the same base circle a little bit MILDER and have something useful for a wild street turbo app.

Kurt


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #433, 02-13-2008 06:30 PM
      Here is a tool I've been making today for drilling the middle four cam bearing bosses. Apologies for the crappy cell pics.





Here's what it's supposed to look like when finished:



Looks more complicated than it actually is, I've only spent about 20 minutes on it so far. First I turned down some aluminum stock to camshaft size, put it on the mill and cut an orientation flat, then milled down another flat to the centerline. I then squared another little bit of scrap. Tomorrow, it's going to have an angled flat milled into it, and drilled for .25" cap screws to hold it to the cam bushing. Once the cam bushing is drilled and tapped, they will be assembled, and the nub for handling the cam bush will be cut off and the assembly milled flat on both sides. The assembly will go back into the mill, and the angled hole will be drilled in, then lined with a steel bushing. The whole unit will then simply bolt in place of the camshaft bearing cap.

Elapsed time...Hopefully not more than 1hr.


Mr.PBody (paniccia008@aol.com) MSG #434, 02-13-2008 08:07 PM
      Why don't you just machine up your own motor your skills are intense man, nice work,

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #435, 02-14-2008 09:34 AM
      Started on header design number.......whatever








[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 02-14-2008).]

Fastback 86 MSG #436, 02-14-2008 03:46 PM
      Ummm.......I think this project is starting to get to you Nate. That cluster**** you got there is gonna be a ***** to build, and I'd love to know where some of those pipes are going.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #437, 02-14-2008 04:14 PM
      Tube 1:

And from the jumbled mess...



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #438, 02-18-2008 12:39 AM
      LOL...Scott, you were pretty much right. I would show you guys the rest of the "trimmed" header if it didn't look like crap, and if it wasn't wrong.

So here's something positive:


Almost done. Hopefully I'll be bored at work again tomorrow.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 02-18-2008).]

Fastback 86 MSG #439, 02-18-2008 03:09 AM
      I want your job. My work doesn't have toys nearly that cool.

Toddster (toddamelio@gmail.com) MSG #440, 02-18-2008 11:10 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

I found the guy who bought Toddster's DOHC head, that had cams with it. VERY cool guy, said he didn't have a problem with me using his cams to reproduce a set for myself. He also needs a front cover though, I was hoping that I can find one so I can get dim's to make one for myself. With any luck I could have a set of cams made. I think between the two of us we should be able to figure out solutions to our common problems. If nothing else, I've met another friend along way.

Also going to be ordering some mild steel tube sometime this week and start building a prototype header.


The guy I bought the head from might have a custom made timing cover still. If not, I know he sold several other DOHC items to some racers in Puerto Rico. I'll try to get the contact info.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #441, 03-03-2008 06:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:


The guy I bought the head from might have a custom made timing cover still. If not, I know he sold several other DOHC items to some racers in Puerto Rico. I'll try to get the contact info.


Thanks, I would appreciate that!



Getting there...


Tomcars1 (tomee@fastq.com) MSG #442, 03-03-2008 08:11 PM
      Nate,


Contact me at Tomcars1@netscape.net . I have a complete 2.7 L Cosworth Fiero / Super Duty motor from one of the Spice Fiero IMSA GTU vehicles : Ex- Charles Morgan 1988. This engine was built by Vanderly Engineering in Bilouxi Miss . Jack Ondrack and I have exchanged replacement components in the past - he is probably the source for most of your non-Kansas Racing componenets and is going to to be supplying some set-up components in the future. What may be of interest to you is that the engine I have - Pontiac Motorsports : PM181 also has numerous componenets from a second motor: PM182 that disintegrated following an apparent over-rev above 8300 that resulted in a destroyed block at the #1 cylinder. E-mail me with what you are currently missing on your engine and I may have them in my inventory of SPARES or may have contacts to find what you need.

Tom Eatman



The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #443, 03-04-2008 01:03 AM
      Beautiful looking header. Keep up the good work.



Toddster (toddamelio@gmail.com) MSG #444, 03-04-2008 12:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Tomcars1:

Nate,


Contact me at Tomcars1@netscape.net . I have a complete 2.7 L Cosworth Fiero / Super Duty motor from one of the Spice Fiero IMSA GTU vehicles : Ex- Charles Morgan 1988. This engine was built by Vanderly Engineering in Bilouxi Miss . Jack Ondrack and I have exchanged replacement components in the past - he is probably the source for most of your non-Kansas Racing componenets and is going to to be supplying some set-up components in the future. What may be of interest to you is that the engine I have - Pontiac Motorsports : PM181 also has numerous componenets from a second motor: PM182 that disintegrated following an apparent over-rev above 8300 that resulted in a destroyed block at the #1 cylinder. E-mail me with what you are currently missing on your engine and I may have them in my inventory of SPARES or may have contacts to find what you need.

Tom Eatman



Jack sold me most of his stuff already Tom. I have subsequently resold most of it. But Jack sold some SD Cosworth stuff to a racer in Puerto Rico and here is his contact info:
Rafael Rivera of Ponce, Puerto Rico - his phone number is 787 843 6410

Good luck


Dave Deerson (daviddeerson@yahoo.com) MSG #445, 03-06-2008 07:41 AM
      Hey Todd,I bought Jack's old IMSA car that your engine and trans came out of!Small world! Not to hijack the thread too badly,but in the parts you got from Jack,were there any extra Torsen limited slip units for the Getrag/Webster trans?I am looking for one of those units for a friend.
Hey Todd,isn't your car a tube frame GT2 syle car also?Can you send me pics of it as I have been compiling a file of pics of any remaining tube framed Fieros still in the country.You can reach me at daviddeersomn@yahoo.com or call me at my shop 732-257-2664 8 to 5 eastern.

Thanks guys,
Dave D.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #446, 03-06-2008 05:53 PM
      Thanks for the info Toddster, I will try to get ahold of him. I finished the second header design today, it's about 4 inches longer than the first but places the turbo in a more ideal location.







A wolf in sheep's clothing, no doubt:
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

That's a look under the skin of the last picture.


DarkRanger4200 (rniertit@gmail.com) MSG #447, 03-07-2008 02:43 AM
      you are going to have one NASTY (in a good way) engine when you done i want that sooo bad!



Dave Deerson (daviddeerson@yahoo.com) MSG #448, 03-13-2008 06:39 AM
      Looking for Todd(Toddster) or Tom(Tomcat),I just was looking for some info from Tom and to see if Todd had a Torsen LSD in with the parts he bought from Jack Ondrak?Guys,are you out there?Sorry,but I just feel snubbed due to a topic drift.I own a real IMSA GTU Fiero and just like to collect info on some of the other tube chassis cars left out there.
Sorry for the rant,
Dave D.


The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #449, 03-19-2008 01:49 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:



I'm pretty sure it's done...Length from head flange to collector is 19". Each runner is composed of 4 seperate bends, 3 welds required for each, plus the transition from oval to round.



I just realized something the other day when cleaning my garage out to make room for the Latemodel that has my new Super Duty in it. I have a set of IndyCar headers. And guess what? The flange and ports look amazingly like what your Cosworth head exhaust flanges look like. take a look and compare.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #450, 04-25-2008 03:26 PM
      Good news, Tomcars1 is going to help me out by letting me use some of his DOHC parts for reference. So except for camshafts, I should be able to reproduce everything I need.

Thanks!


The_Stickman2 (racincouple@ptd.net) MSG #451, 04-25-2008 03:28 PM
      Great news. Can't wait to hear your next update.



Toddster (toddamelio@gmail.com) MSG #452, 04-25-2008 05:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dave Deerson:

Looking for Todd(Toddster) or Tom(Tomcat),I just was looking for some info from Tom and to see if Todd had a Torsen LSD in with the parts he bought from Jack Ondrak?Guys,are you out there?Sorry,but I just feel snubbed due to a topic drift.I own a real IMSA GTU Fiero and just like to collect info on some of the other tube chassis cars left out there.
Sorry for the rant,
Dave D.


Sorry to be away from the thread for so long but work is hectic latley. Anyway, I sold all of the spare LSD's I had. Fierobear bought one and I don't think he needs it. You might try to email him.


Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #453, 04-25-2008 07:24 PM
      With a turbo you are putting in somewhat of an inline exhaust restriction. IMO this may need to be taken into accord when designing the headers. Too much flow slows down the exhaust flow killing the boost at the bottom end while too little flow restricts the boost at the top end. With a turbo you want a fast moving exhaust flow. This is best done with Ceramic Coated exhaust tubing that keeps the heat in and tubing that's not overly large which keeps the flow moving quickly. On the exhaust side of the turbo you can go as big as you like without any ill effects.



RWDPLZ MSG #454, 04-25-2008 08:52 PM
      Good to hear!



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #455, 05-07-2008 07:48 PM
      I ordered material for Cosworth intake #1. I've also been thinking about reviving my barrel throttle idea. It's been occupying most of my thoughts for the last month, I think I've had some good ideas concerning the fabrication and design of it; I also spoke to someone that fabricated their own barrel throttle for a Subie flat 4. I feel that I should develop a more traditional intake manifold first, to refine the tuning process. I'll post some details of my plans for intake 1 later.

Nate


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #456, 05-12-2008 02:49 AM
      So here's the idea for the runners:



The radius of the ends of the ports is about 0.63". So I got some 1-3/8 tube to cut in half. Then I'll just weld two bent flats of aluminum between the two, and I'll have bent runners that are the right size without trying to form things the hard way, like smoosh round tube into ovals and try to bend that. Eventually I'd like to do carbon runners.

And, I started to put down a rough idea of what I'm wanting for the throttle, for each cylinder:

It has quite a few things left to work out, and some basic design still to be determined.


Tomcars1 (tomee@fastq.com) MSG #457, 05-13-2008 12:46 AM
      Nate,

Have made a contact with Cosworth and two technical documents on the Super Duty Twin Cam engine are available. I will E-mail you both : one is a detailed specification on the 2.7 and 3.0 Liter versions of this engine with setup / assembly / and start-up instructions. The second document is a parts list for the Twin Cam conversion kit. The kit is very complete as provided from Cosworth - it included everything for a long block except the GM engine case, crankshaft, oiling system ( both a wet sump and a dry sump was used on these engines - the dry sump being the more common for non-drag racing ). The intake system was optional - both Cosworth Digital Fuel injection or Carburation. Unfortunately - most of the components listed by part # are no longer carried in stock by Cosworth. My contact may be able to locate engineering drawings and assembly drawings / instructions for us in the near future. Will have to wait and see on this. Cosworth may have one ( 1 ) Twin Cam conversion kit still available - they will be finding out if it is a complete kit on not. This Kit is VERY complete with most internal recipricating components : Forged pistons, Steel forged rods, etc.. Price will reflect this completeness - initial quote of $8,500 - if complete and available.

Some of the specifications are quite suprising - 2.7 L engine had torque of 234 Ft/ Lbs @ 6500 with a max speed of 8750. 3.0 L engine had torque of 260 Ft/Lbs @ 6500 with a max speed of 8500.

So - your expected power output looks to be realistic in a turbocharged form. This engine - using the GM SuperDuty case and crank is very stout - but Cosworth admits that it is heavy in comparison to competing engines - but that is your advantage in a forced induction format.

Tom .


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #458, 05-22-2008 06:12 PM
      Have recieved Tom's email, quite priceless Cosworth documents at this stage.

I've been refining the above barrel throttle, it's starting to look more like reality and less like a pipe dream. Only a minimal amount of work will have to be done on a CNC machine, which I don't always have access to. The rest can be done on a manual mill and lathe.

This has been taking the sideburner to my "other" project:


Though me and my buddies have been known to take a break


Still going....
Nate


KurtAKX MSG #459, 05-28-2008 09:41 PM
      Progress update?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #460, 05-30-2008 12:59 AM
      I recieved some of the parts (bearings, fasteners, o-rings) for my prototype throttle body, I'm getting pretty amped about that. No news yet about the timing cover and all that business.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #461, 06-11-2008 08:59 AM
      I started on my proto-throttle...


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #462, 06-19-2008 10:24 AM
      Alan sent me his DOHC parts for comparison and reference. His head is set up to use a double timing chain, while mine is only a single. From what I can tell from the Cosworth doc, however, the cams are the same. So I'm going to be doing some fine measuring and get all the journal and critical dimensions from the cams. He also sent me his Cosworth pistons. Pretty impressive for 1980's pieces...They only weigh 20g more than my dished CP pistons, with a full dome. I'd like to use these for reference and have CP make a stronger version in an X-forging, so I'd have the better ring land features that the CP's boast. I'm not sure how this would compare to just sending in a mold of the combustion chamber.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #463, 06-21-2008 03:44 PM
      Here's what happens when I use a CNC machine by myself.


Here's what happens when someone helps me along by changing my offsets without telling me:


After closer examination...It looks like the offsets were not changed (I don't have to kill anyone now, yay). When I started cutting, the part flexed enough for the pressure to be relieved off the vise jaws and the part to slip, it rode up to the top of the cutter faster than I could push the stop button. I am fairly suprised this happened, as there was still quite alot of material keeping the top section of the part stiff. Maybe I didn't tighten down the vise enough...who knows. In any case, the prototype barrel throttle is indeed finished . I'll probably make one more to try out some ideas, then I want to start on the 'production' throttles.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 06-21-2008).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #464, 07-17-2008 09:45 PM
      While work starts on prototype throttle #2 housing, branches to different parts on proto-throttle #1:







Hopefully I can get in on the CNC this weekend.

And, almost done with the house.


americasfuture2k MSG #465, 07-17-2008 11:28 PM
      oh wow, im jealous. that you have a cnc machine.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #466, 07-22-2008 02:41 PM
      Throttle body housing #2:

Reaming the holes for the alignment pins...

The (somewhat) finished product:


Notably absent from housing #1 are the difficult-to-install thread inserts, which I figured were nice, but not REALLY necessary. I also received the aluminum for the barrel valve portion, and I hope to cut the CORRECT ports into housing #2 this week. I've also made a decision:

The SD4 will complete its first iteration in pushrod form. I have almost all the parts I need except for the header to do this. It would be silly for me not to. In the meantime, I will try completing the parts collection/replication for the DOHC head.

Goodnight and goodluck,
Nate


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #467, 08-01-2008 11:42 PM
      Throttle housing almost done, I'm going to try to get the o-ring lands cut on Monday or Tuesday.
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I can see this thing flowing pretty good:
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Fit is exceptional, at most 5-10 thousandths off in places. Luckily for me all the ports are very consistent. I haven't done any calculations for runner length using this throttle setup, so I'm still not sure where these things are going to sit.

I still haven't gotten to do the end caps, haven't been able to scrounge the material...Soon though.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #468, 09-08-2008 10:33 PM
      Spent some of my day off designing a rocker girdle:



[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 09-08-2008).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #469, 09-11-2008 08:14 PM
      Been looking into a new rendering package, here's a couple of screenshots. I wish I could save the full rendering outputs, but oh well.





[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 09-11-2008).]

FieroWannaBe (patond@alumni.msoe.edu) MSG #470, 09-11-2008 08:22 PM
      What package is that, those are extremely nice renders.

americasfuture2k MSG #471, 09-11-2008 11:22 PM
      maya? 3d studio max?



AquaHusky (david.t.cisneros@gmail.com) MSG #472, 09-17-2008 09:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

While work starts on prototype throttle #2 housing, branches to different parts on proto-throttle #1:





Seeing this reminded me of an article I seen in an old hotrod mag where this company was doing an experimental head for a Ford 5 Litre engine where the valves were removed and something similar to this was installed in a brand new casting. They had a stock black and rotating assy spinning at 10K RPMs! Never heard anything about it past that. I hope someone seen the same article I did to verify this.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #473, 09-18-2008 04:43 PM
      I think I know what you're talking about. Is this it?
http://www.coatesengine.com/csrv.html

Here's a link to a slightly more complex, but REALLY cool system:
http://www.v-eight.com/mult.../pdf/AutoTechBRV.pdf

The problems I have always seen is 1) maintaining seal integrity, and 2) Flow inefficiencies through partially opened valves. Fix those, put 50 years on the design, and you've got a pretty good system.

 
quote
Originally posted by FieroWannaBe:

What package is that, those are extremely nice renders.


It's Bunkspeed Hypershot. A monkey could use it. For the above examples I loaded IGES conversions of my models, right clicked on the model and defined a material, and took a real-time screen shot, didn't even "render" per se.

Here's a couple of screen shots of one of my non-Fiero related models (was bored for a couple of hours, so I made sunglasses).
http://img.photobucket.com/...ndy/CAD/Glasses1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/...ndy/CAD/Glasses2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/...ndy/CAD/Glasses3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/...ndy/CAD/Glasses4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/...ndy/CAD/Glasses6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/...ndy/CAD/Glasses7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/...ndy/CAD/Glasses8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/...ndy/CAD/Glasses9.jpg

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 09-18-2008).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #474, 09-18-2008 11:13 PM
      I got my ARP flywheel bolts in today. They fit the flywheel perfectly, they were described as Tilton flywheel bolts only, so I took a little gamble.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

I was a little concerned at first, with the amount of overhang on the back of the crankshaft face, near the main bearing.
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

I did a test fit of the crank in the block, and there's a good .020-.030" gap between the faces of the bolts and the main adapter. If the bolts touch the main, I'll already have bigger problems.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 09-18-2008).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #475, 11-10-2008 11:17 AM
      So I've found another ECU that looks like it will work best for my needs. Best mix of ability and price. It's the Link G4 Xtreme. I downloaded the tuning/interface program and have been playing with it for several weeks now. It's extremely intuitive, and easy to set up complex details, assign inputs, outputs, edit maps, do everything that needs to be done. By far the best tuning interface I have ever used. Has alot of inputs/outputs, can do VVT, sequential injection, COP, traction control, anti-lag, etc. AND it's about $1400 WITH harness. This is much cheaper than many other equivalent products.

http://www.linkecu.com/prod...lder/g4xtremespecjpg

I'll post up some shots of the software later.


thebaron (eric.murray@tekkoshocon.com) MSG #476, 11-10-2008 12:08 PM
      Very cool! I hope to see your monster on the road soon enough! I was watching Horsepower TV and they were installing some monster turbo engine in a Mustang, but they used an interesting idea for mounting the engine: sheets of steel on the transmission and the front of the engine. The front sheet could act to the keep the heat from the turbos away from the engine. I caught only part of that episode, but it sound like an interesting idea to mount a high horsepower motor.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #477, 11-10-2008 08:18 PM
      I've been thinking about doing mount plates like that. I'm not sure if there are really enough points on the Fiero cradle to interface a mount plate with that would make it and different than the more traditional style mounts. The tradeoff that comes with being able to drop the cradle, I guess. I think it would probably be a good idea on the transmission end though.





Positive P (positiveparts@aol.com) MSG #478, 12-26-2008 09:44 PM
      So did this thing ever get finished?



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #479, 12-30-2008 05:14 PM
      Still working on it...Just got married a couple of days ago, hasn't been a priority on the budget lately. Been working on some other projects too, building an AR-15 among other things. No progress to report since last time, though I am going to have access to a CNC machine for quite some time soon, and I will probably be able to do some items I've posted about above.

30+mpg (wshaw@par1.net) MSG #480, 12-30-2008 05:21 PM
     
 
quote
Positive P:So did this thing ever get finished?


The real question is "Will this thing ever get finished?"

The answer is I think not.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #481, 01-26-2009 05:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 30+mpg:


The real question is "Will this thing ever get finished?"

The answer is I think not.



Ouch. I guess the truth hurts the most

I've got enough 1/2" 321 stainless ordered to do the exhaust flanges for both cylinder heads. Wasn't terribly cheap at $100, but it's best for what I want to do. I hope to get at least one set milled out this weekend.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 01-26-2009).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #482, 01-29-2009 09:51 PM
      Got my jig for my flanges done tonight.



slinger MSG #483, 01-30-2009 09:35 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

building an AR-15 among other things.



off topic but me and my uncle want to put some together. what are they runing nowdays?


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #484, 01-30-2009 04:09 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by slinger:

off topic but me and my uncle want to put some together. what are they runing nowdays?


Cost pretty much depends on how much you want to spend.

The first one I built cost about $700 to get up and running with a decent barrel/upper, standard M4 collapsible stock, pretty much standard lower:




About another $500 and I had a decent optic setup and a nice MAGPUL PRS stock.


The one I'm building right now I've spent about $800 on, and I've yet to get a barrel, handguard and stock, which total, will be another $1000 or a little less, without any kind of optic. Factoring in a nice Eotech holosight would be another $400.

Pics in its current form:



Here's a model I made to get a feel for what I'm going after.




Pics show it with the handguard and flash hider I'm going for.
Final form will be a 10.5" Short Barrel Rifle (SBR). I'm also about to put my BATF Form 1 paperwork through for building a suppressor, which would add another 6-7" of length. If I permanently attached it to the barrel, I could get around the $200 SBR tax stamp and pay for the tax stamp for the suppressor only.


slinger MSG #485, 01-30-2009 06:18 PM
      nice! i cant do much with one in collage but i could start with the lower receiver and when im done with school get the rest and work my way up, i would be going for a SPR style.

thanks for the info

back to your regularly scheduled program


americasfuture2k MSG #486, 01-30-2009 10:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by slinger:

nice! i cant do much with one in collage.........

back to your regularly scheduled program


yes you can. its just not right....

happy hunting



slinger MSG #487, 01-31-2009 12:32 AM
      they might get a little mad if i build one in my dorm room

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #488, 02-01-2009 12:02 PM
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeBCLkX45tc

Blowd MSG #489, 02-05-2009 08:52 PM
      Hey, the email bounced again, so here is a preview of the drawing I got with my parts. As Imentioned it's 22ft long and has 5 views, but not of too much value from a design standpoint.



[This message has been edited by Blowd (edited 02-05-2009).]

Blowd MSG #490, 02-05-2009 09:12 PM
      May as well put up a photo of the head. I got some of the shelf dust off of it.

For the rest of the group, I just scored a basically NOS SD4 16v head and shortblock ass'y. Lots of little bags and boxes of parts still to sort through. I don't actually have a use/plan for it yet, but just couldn't pass up the oportunity to get my hands on one.
Nate and Tom have been kind enough to help me out with some documentation and info.
Thanx Guys.

Now back to your regular scheduled topic....


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #491, 02-20-2009 05:16 PM
      Wow, looks nice. Does that intake look like a production unit, or custom? I'll try emailing you again, can you PM me the bounce error you're getting? My email seems to be working okay on my end.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #492, 03-07-2009 02:00 PM
      Started on the aluminum proto exhaust flange. Couldn't get it quite finished yet.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 03-07-2009).]

Stubby79 MSG #493, 03-07-2009 05:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Blowd:

May as well put up a photo of the head. I got some of the shelf dust off of it.



Man, that thing's got balls!
.
.
.
...I mean it! 4 of 'em!
.
.
.
...sorry, had to say it.


sardonyx247 (sardonyx247@yahoo.com) MSG #494, 03-20-2009 12:55 AM
      hey fast indy, your Indy fast yet?
j/k
If I was closer I swear I would go there and finish it for you.

get er done

I want to see that thing smoke every thing on the road.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #495, 03-22-2009 10:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

hey fast indy, your Indy fast yet?
j/k
If I was closer I swear I would go there and finish it for you.

get er done

I want to see that thing smoke every thing on the road.



Hehe...Donate 5-6 thou and I'd have it done in a month



Aluminum test flange is done, will know fitment tomorrow. It's .500" thick, has a .25" recess so the transitions can be nested inside the flange and welded inside and out. I'll probably also leave a little more material radially around the port, just for a little extra stiffness and space for the weld.

Also planning on cutting (on the CNC machine) a 2 piece mandrel for forming the transitions from oval to round, hoping to do that this week.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #496, 03-24-2009 03:36 PM
      As shown not very clearly by the crappy cellphone pics, it fits pretty good!







Blowd MSG #497, 04-06-2009 11:04 AM
      Port alignment looks nice (I jus luv lookin down those ports). So that's probably gonna take a pretty good notch on the water pump, but will definitely make for a trouble free header.
Keep us posted.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #498, 04-17-2009 05:09 PM
      I was recently thinking about becoming a little more ambitious with the exhaust flange project. Because I am already investing a fair amount of time in cutting these flanges out myself, I started thinking about reverting back to my original plan from several years ago and doing the entire transition in a single billet. Because I don't have my own NDI/X-ray inspection quality control department, minimizing welds is one of my top priorities in the design of my exhaust system. With an addition of a couple of machining operations, I could eliminate having to cut out a mandrel and form the transitions by hand and having them welded onto the flange.

This got me thinking about what F1 does. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any kind of good information or even closeup pictures of the parts that I was looking for, but what I WAS able to find was a seller on eBay clearing out old CART/IRL exhaust parts. I figured this may be more useful to my turbocharged application anyway (though I won't succumb to claiming that my level of build or tune even approaches that of an IRL engine). So, just because I was curious, I wound up with three flanges; two from successive generations of late 90's Mercedes Ilmor engine, and a flange from a Chevy Aurora engine. The Aurora flange is billet Inconel while the Mercedes flanges are cast stainless or Inconel, I'm not sure which. These confirmed my sneaking suspicion that a one-piece transition could be a suitable solution to the problem of transitioning from the port to the round tube, and looked fairly similar to what I had already worked up in CATIA. On to the pics.







These are obviously no-expense-spared pieces, with the Mercedes flange even sporting webbing bracing the flange mounting points. Both transitions sport a very sharp knife edge where the ports merge, though something I'm not concerned about because my ports merge inside the head, not far past the bowl. Also evident is the relatively thin flange at the base, both measure around .15" thick where the bolt face would be. This was somewhat suprising to me, though I suspect I can't build a flange that thin because of the Cossie's 3-bolt flange versus the 4-bolt IRL parts. More later.


KurtAKX MSG #499, 04-25-2009 02:01 PM
      Am I missing something? Aluminum exhaust flanges- they must just be for mockup, right?

Inconel is definitely a much better choice for turbo exhaust system temperature considerations. Your exhaust will be hotter than the melting temp of aluminum!


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #500, 04-27-2009 12:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

Am I missing something? Aluminum exhaust flanges- they must just be for mockup, right?

Inconel is definitely a much better choice for turbo exhaust system temperature considerations. Your exhaust will be hotter than the melting temp of aluminum!


Yes...Just for mockup/test run of my CNC code. The flange that you see in 6061 there will be replicated in 321 Stainless. Austenitic stainless can be somewhat difficult to machine unless the toolpaths are just right (it work hardens very quickly, so making shallow or redudant cuts will cause very fast tool wear, or breakage).

In terms of cost and lack of availabilty (and difficulty in machining), Inconel is orders above even 321SS. I don't even want to consider what the same 1/2 x 5 x 36" plate that ran $100 in 321SS would be in Inconel. On the other hand, doing 1-piece transitions (instead of just flanges) in 321 is not completely outside of the realm of possibility, but again, the hunk of 2" x 4" x 24" hunk of SS that it would take wouldn't be cheap.

So for the moment I'm split on it.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #501, 07-06-2009 04:41 PM
      Update!

Okay, not really. We're finally in the process of installing a CNC machine (Haas VF-3) where I work, so that will help getting some of these odds and ends done. Also planning on making the rocker stud girdle and the main cap girdle.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #502, 07-17-2009 05:45 PM
      I pulled the intake cam off of Alan's head to get journal sizes and do some general measuring. The cams are gun-drilled, with an oiling hole drilled at each bearing. The inner two bearings are plain, while the outer two are grooved for oiling. This corresponds with the holes drilled in the outer journals in the head for the pressure feed to the cam core I suppose.







FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #503, 10-21-2009 11:43 AM
      One 321SS flange done, 3 to go.









kwagner MSG #504, 10-22-2009 08:56 PM
      ooo

R Runner (rrunner@windstream.net) MSG #505, 11-08-2009 09:05 AM
      Very cool.



30+mpg (wshaw@par1.net) MSG #506, 11-20-2009 09:07 AM
      Since this is a 5 year old "build" thread, how about a list of engine parts that you now have assembled or bolted together?

IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #507, 11-26-2009 05:12 PM
      bump for an update

IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #508, 11-26-2009 05:15 PM
      bump for an update

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #509, 11-28-2009 12:37 PM
      Well...Right now the list of assembled parts is somewhat, ahhhhh.....slim. It was much better before I disassembled the short block and the head. Right now I'm looking for a shop in town that can do a proper hot plateau hone. Also working with a different shop to see if they can follow my design and get the 321SS transitions welded up, not sure I trust them. Thinking about doing the welding myself.

ArbinShire MSG #510, 11-30-2009 12:45 AM
      So what is the honest likelihood of this being completed? So far the work done is amazing, but it's been taking QUITE a long time....

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #511, 11-30-2009 02:17 PM
      Looking only at the numbers i.e. time and money invested, the odds of completion are very, very high. My desire to "finish" this project is way, way up there. I do think about it every day and I run numbers or do back of the envelope designs at least 3-4 times a week. Right now the biggest enemy of this project is probably my patience - the abundance of it. To me, perfection has always outweighed a timely completion, and there's never really been any thought to not completing. Maybe I'm also milking it a little bit. Work on a project for 7 years and it becomes a bit of a comfy chair that's easy to relax in. Progress has definitely slowed in the last two years, BUT I have a house, a 1200sqft garage, and a wife to show for it . Also been dinking around with the other AR15.

Expect progress to be picking up a bit.


grkboy707 (gnoplos@gmail.com) MSG #512, 11-30-2009 07:54 PM
      quality stuff your making! I really love the header design!

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #513, 12-02-2009 05:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by grkboy707:

quality stuff your making! I really love the header design!


Thank you! I still need to mock everything up to be absolutely certain it will fit.

Almost finished with part #1 of the mandrel for forming the transitions.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #514, 12-07-2009 03:47 PM
     



[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 12-07-2009).]

30+mpg (wshaw@par1.net) MSG #515, 12-07-2009 07:21 PM
     
 
quote
FastIndyFiero:...Right now the list of assembled parts is somewhat, ahhhhh.....slim....


That means a short list which shouldn't take much time. Soooooooooooo, after 5 years of posting, please list the assembled parts (or does the "Fast" in your user name refer to your typing skills? ).


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #516, 12-16-2009 03:56 PM
      I don't have anything on the engine put together anymore...It needs a hot-block .002" plateau hone still. Which reminds me, I can modify my deck plate tomorrow.

The 2v head just needs to be assembled, but I don't have a valve spring compressor big enough to handle the job. The springs hit >600lbs at the open position...I tried using the compressor I had, and it wouldn't even get the top of the retainer even with the valve stem

But, the day is not without progress. I used my mandrel to make my first transition. The tube size isn't proper though, apparently the O'reilly's tubing sizes are +/- 1/8". This tube is waaay too big. In the picture where's it's sitting around the mandrel, the top of the tube should be very snug up around it. Instead it's got about an 1/8th on either side. It has a thinner wall thickness than the real stuff too, so that didn't help. It did, however, prove my concept, which means I'll be ordering some stainless this week.







FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #517, 12-30-2009 05:10 PM
     







Lilchief MSG #518, 12-30-2009 10:27 PM
      Fast, A long time ago (10 yrs+) I was inquiring about one of these heads and was told they had an oiling problem. I don't know if it was in the lifter area or the head itself. I don't remember if it was the guy that ran FOCOA or his mechanic that had the Green Machine. Was wondering if you ever heard of anything along those lines. If so what did you do to address the issue?



KurtAKX MSG #519, 02-08-2010 04:26 PM
      Yo Yo, a bump for you.

Some rare hardware.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...?hash=item3ca9d33f97


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #520, 02-11-2010 12:35 AM
      Missed that one...Dammit. Maybe the buyer doesn't know what they're for. Going to try tracking them down.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 02-11-2010).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #521, 02-12-2010 11:33 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Lilchief:

Fast, A long time ago (10 yrs+) I was inquiring about one of these heads and was told they had an oiling problem. I don't know if it was in the lifter area or the head itself. I don't remember if it was the guy that ran FOCOA or his mechanic that had the Green Machine. Was wondering if you ever heard of anything along those lines. If so what did you do to address the issue?



Which head?


Lilchief MSG #522, 02-14-2010 04:32 PM
      The DOHC head.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #523, 03-16-2010 01:04 PM
      I haven't heard anything about it, but info is pretty short on these. To make matters worse, 10 years ago I was 13 lol

Been working on this quite a bit recently, between work and school, updates/pics are running a little behind.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 03-16-2010).]

Lilchief MSG #524, 03-17-2010 12:06 AM
      It was either Keith Huff or John Parenti that told me that. Both were in FOCOA at the time and Keith is somewhere in AZ now. Don't know about John. Just don't want to see you blow it up. I've noticed a few SD block for sale that had rods go threw the side. I don't know how they address the issue of eliminating the lifters and that might have been the problem. Oh well, hope I'm wrong. Just wanted to give you a heads up



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #525, 03-17-2010 08:31 AM
      The lifter bores are inserted with aluminum plugs. At this stage I've been seriously considering moving to a dry-sump oiling system so I can provide pressure feed to critical areas in the head like the cam bearings. It will probably have to be something I do when the engine is being set up in the car with all the accessories, since I'll have to move to a Gilmer-style drive.

Tzone21 MSG #526, 03-18-2010 06:27 PM
      damn i want a finished product ahhhhh

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #527, 03-27-2010 03:39 PM
      Last exhaust flanges done:



[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 03-27-2010).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #528, 04-13-2010 02:37 PM
      After finally tracking down someone who had 321SS tube in 16g and waiting to get it from SPD Exhaust, I formed the stainless transitions using my new mandrel, and they work great. Matches up with the flange and looks good to boot.





FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #529, 05-13-2010 09:40 PM
      Interesting...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...fDefaultDomainQ5f100


pontiacjeff (tech@engineered.net) MSG #530, 06-30-2010 03:33 PM
      Wow, tried to read thru but had to jump to the end... I am in the parts acquisition process to build a SD4 16V turbo engine myself. Please keep those CNC coordinates so I can buy some flanges form you! I'll check in when my parts arrive here. I have to ask if you have any spare bottom end stuff, rods, pistons, crank, block?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #531, 07-06-2010 01:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by pontiacjeff:

Wow, tried to read thru but had to jump to the end... I am in the parts acquisition process to build a SD4 16V turbo engine myself. Please keep those CNC coordinates so I can buy some flanges form you! I'll check in when my parts arrive here. I have to ask if you have any spare bottom end stuff, rods, pistons, crank, block?


I always save all of my models. What I can make depends on how much spare time I have, but I can always send you the CAD data. Any competent shop with a CNC machine would have no trouble knocking these out. I don't have any spare bottom end stuff, but if you keep looking I'm sure you'll find something. Just do a daily search on eBay and it will pop up.

Finished a prototype intake flange today:


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #532, 07-06-2010 06:21 PM
      The bolts are stand-ins, they're too long. The proper bolts will ride inside of the counterbores. The new flange ID is .010-.020" smaller than the port on the head, but there's plenty of material to take it out to a ported match. I'm pretty happy with how it looks, just have to make 4 more now out of a proper weldable aluminum alloy.







HausFiero MSG #533, 08-05-2010 01:38 AM
      This project is awesome. How much hp are u guessing the finished product will put out?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #534, 08-13-2010 01:45 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by HausFiero:

This project is awesome. How much hp are u guessing the finished product will put out?


Hopefully bunches. Over 800 is what I'm shooting for.

Progress has been slow the last little bit. Been working on my other project:

http://www.flickr.com/photo...01614/in/photostream


ghost187x MSG #535, 08-16-2010 06:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:


Hopefully bunches. Over 800 is what I'm shooting for.

Progress has been slow the last little bit. Been working on my other project:

http://www.flickr.com/photo...01614/in/photostream


congrats!


pontiacjeff (tech@engineered.net) MSG #536, 08-24-2010 01:03 PM
      I am ready for a set of intake and exhaust flanges. About to unpack 5 boxes of Cosworth stuff. Only lacking a 2.7L 3.25" crank. I'll send a pm to follow up.

fierosound (fierosound2@shaw.ca) MSG #537, 08-31-2010 10:40 AM
      For those drooling over the Cosworth heads - now's your chance!!

Saw this Cosworth/Pontiac engine for sale http://www.race-cars.com/en...331/1107211331ss.htm



30+mpg (wshaw@par1.net) MSG #538, 02-19-2011 07:09 AM
      Hmm, no running engine yet? 6+ years and counting. I think you've passed SmooothGT for the longest unfinished thread.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #539, 02-26-2011 05:23 PM
      Haha. There's no beating Smoooooth.

Progress!

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.



Made this set for Alan Samura.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #540, 06-07-2011 03:13 PM
      So I've been working on the flywheel situation. For the last several years I had contemplated running a reverse-mount starter through the tranny bellhousing and in conjunction with a reduced diameter flexplate. I'm still not sure what tranny I'll be running, so I've decided to bite the bullet and just set up with the stock starter position / iron duke ring gear.



I still have an issue caused by the large SBC crank pattern messing with the friction insert. I've analyzed this to death, saved weight everywhere I can, and I think the result is looking very good. Total weight is almost 3.5lbs with ring gear. Inertia for the assembly is about 50lb-in^2. Total including a Tilton Carbon-Carbon 5.5" would be 8.1lbs and 74lb-in^2, a savings of.....alot.

However, I did a little re-evaluation of objectives and I examined the alternate route of retaining the mini steel flywheel, and basically just making a flex plate. The weight for the assembly isn't much worse (4.6 vs 3.5lbs) and the inertia is only moderately higher (61 vs 52 lb-in^2). What's pushing me towards this is that I don't need to mess with a friction surface, it can take thrust loads from the TOB more easily, and if I mess up the flywheel I can toss it and get a new one for around $100-150, which is about the same as most friction surfaces. If I go to a bellhousing mount starter I can just toss the flexplate in the garbage. Right now I'm wondering if the inertia will be too low and my non-racedriver skills won't be able to hack it with nearly instantaneous throttle response. The crank will only add about 70 in-lb2 of inertia. I'm looking at a total rotating inertia 60-90% smaller than a typical V8.




Dave Deerson (daviddeerson@yahoo.com) MSG #541, 06-08-2011 11:55 AM
      With flywheel weight/clutch choices I always ask what the use/application will be. Street or track? On the track I would get the lightest in my budget. However,with a street car,I would suggest of not going lighter than10-12lbs for a flywheel.You do need some inertia for pulling away from a stop. At first you may say that you will adjust your driving style to deal with the ultra light FW, but over time it will become a royal PIA.I also stay away from multi-disc clutches on the street,especially carbon/carbon. They just don't like being slipped/modulated to the level needed for street driving . I guess it comes down to how much,where and how you will be driving the car when done.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #542, 06-13-2011 03:15 PM
      I got my aftermarket ring gear in several days ago. It's only about a 1/4" wide (ID-OD), so the ID is about .25" larger than the stock '85 Duke ring gear. This doesn't leave me enough room to pin or screw it onto the flexplate. I wanted something with a SMALLER ID than the stock gear, so I had enough room to at least get some #10 fasteners in. Without any additional shear holding, using a shrink fit, the ring gear would be able to slip on the aluminum center at my worst case accel-decel scenario.

Does anyone know of any smallish-ID 142 tooth ring gears?

In other news, I finally got my car moved to my shop



doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #543, 06-13-2011 04:44 PM
      Not sure if this is any interest to you:

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-...e-W0QQAdIdZ284228738

I don't know what to look for when it comes to the SD stuff, but maybe he has something of use to you for a part of your build!


852m4se MSG #544, 10-02-2011 05:09 PM
      nice. i wanna here an sd-4. they probly sound mean

FieroMonkey (piccolo@cox.net) MSG #545, 12-05-2011 07:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 852m4se:

nice. i wanna here an sd-4. they probly sound mean


You can hear my SD4 in this video...as long as you can ignore the annoying commentary that is.


Jfrost MSG #546, 12-11-2011 02:06 PM
      Never heard an SD4 before, sounds very interesting, almost as if it has a constant rod knock. Great looking Indy though, looks like its a lot of fun to drive!

FieroMonkey (piccolo@cox.net) MSG #547, 12-12-2011 01:02 AM
      Can't speak for every SD4 out there, but I have 2 and they both have that internal rattle to them. Both have Jessel rockers and I have been told that it could be those. However I have noticed that every stock Duke Fiero I have ever owned has sounded like a rattling bubblegum machine to varying degree's so it could just be an inherent noise with the design of the engine, which is pretty much the same between the SD4 and the duke.

When i first got the Indy it had a hooker header on it and a straight pipe exhaust with no muffler. You could not hear the rattle for obvious reasons with that set-up.

But there are ppl here more knowledgeable about SD4's here than I am who might be able to shed some light on this.


RWDPLZ MSG #548, 01-21-2012 12:47 AM
      Anything new?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #549, 01-31-2012 01:48 AM
      Nothing exciting right now, I've been working on machining some assorted flanges, and I'm still trying to get a flywheel design ironed out that won't cost me an arm and a leg for raw material for. I've also been doing some things to the car, cutting/repairing rust around the battery tray. Money is tight right now, though, so nothing big.



Hoffedav (drshoffeditz@embarqmail.com) MSG #550, 02-22-2012 07:14 PM
      Just read through this entire thread for the first time. In the beginning I was getting excited for the dyno numbers and 1/4 mile runs I expected to be in the latter pages. Then once I saw the switch to the DOHC head I knew it wasn't done by page 14 lol.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #551, 04-30-2012 04:09 PM
      Interesting...Most similar Cosworth head I've found so far is the Mercedes 190E.

http://190rev.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=35723&page=2



30+mpg (wshaw@par1.net) MSG #552, 05-10-2012 06:20 PM
      Better buy all the parts you might need to complete the build.

By the time you are finished even the gaskets will be obsolete.


eljibaro127 (eljibaro127@gmail.com) MSG #553, 08-07-2012 09:56 PM
      BUMP

infinitewill MSG #554, 08-08-2012 08:26 AM
      No need to bump Construction Zone threads, they never archive.

DarcyJL (pontiacdh@hotmail.com) MSG #555, 03-02-2013 11:32 PM
      Any update

RandomTask (jguer003@odu.edu) MSG #556, 07-02-2013 10:20 PM
      Subscribing to thread and asking for an update. Cheers,

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #557, 08-08-2013 05:51 PM
      Well, I've decided to sell everything and start a new project...On a 2013 Volkswagen Beetle!

Just kidding. Still slowly working on doing minor repairs to the car, and slowly forming a complete plan of action on the SD-4 DOHC. Still fine tuning designs on the intake/exhaust (billet header collector anyone?) here and there between finishing school (2 more semesters!) and working 80hrs/week. The Turbo Super Duty Build is far from forgotten and WILL be finished!


Lilchief MSG #558, 09-02-2013 10:12 PM
      Where did you get your injector bungs for the 4 brrl intake ? Are you keeping all the 433 head/intake stuff ?
Thanks Rick



Josh52894 (josh52894@gmail.com) MSG #559, 01-10-2014 08:44 AM
      ive had this thread favorited back before I had my first car (fiero) im anxious to see just how much is actually possible with that engine. I understand the school and work situation, im still there myself. keep at it.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #560, 03-06-2014 12:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Lilchief:

Where did you get your injector bungs for the 4 brrl intake ? Are you keeping all the 433 head/intake stuff ?
Thanks Rick



I got the injector bungs from SDS EFI. I'm still planning on keeping the 433 stuff, as I just can't seem to bring myself to part with it. It's also there as a back up plan in case I hit a major(er) roadblock with the Cosworth head.

 
quote
Originally posted by Josh52894:

ive had this thread favorited back before I had my first car (fiero) im anxious to see just how much is actually possible with that engine. I understand the school and work situation, im still there myself. keep at it.


Thanks! I'm still at it.


michaelmount123 (michaelmount123@aol.com) MSG #561, 04-16-2014 11:27 PM
      I've acquired a SD-4 Cosworth (IMSA) engine with a few spares. Although it's not yet here, I'm considering a turbo upgrade for a Bonneville car. Are you making your intake / exhaust flanges available? It would sure save a lot of head ache!
Thanks!


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #562, 04-18-2014 05:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by michaelmount123:

I've acquired a SD-4 Cosworth (IMSA) engine with a few spares. Although it's not yet here, I'm considering a turbo upgrade for a Bonneville car. Are you making your intake / exhaust flanges available? It would sure save a lot of head ache!
Thanks!


I'll send a PM, we can discuss it! Right now the current set of flanges are reserved for Alan Samura.

Nate

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 04-18-2014).]

RandomTask (jguer003@odu.edu) MSG #563, 04-18-2014 06:57 PM
      Loving this thread BTW.

Question(s) : You're using PRO-E, correct? How do you like it? Never had to use it career wise, but always kind of wanted to learn it. I've always been stuck on Siemens NX, Inventor, or Solidworks.

Side question: If you ever want some help with analysis, feel free to forward some models over. I can run them through ANSYS simulation (if you don't already have access to) not only under static loads but with vibrations as well.

Cheers,
Joe


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #564, 08-21-2014 03:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:

Loving this thread BTW.

Question(s) : You're using PRO-E, correct? How do you like it? Never had to use it career wise, but always kind of wanted to learn it. I've always been stuck on Siemens NX, Inventor, or Solidworks.

Side question: If you ever want some help with analysis, feel free to forward some models over. I can run them through ANSYS simulation (if you don't already have access to) not only under static loads but with vibrations as well.

Cheers,
Joe


CATIA actually. Most of the analysis I've done in CATIA as well, which uses a fairly fully-featured ABAQUS solver. Some analysis I've done with ANSYS and PATRAN/NASTRAN. Most of the pretty pictures I post here are from CATIA. Here's a screenshot from the flywheel stuff I was working on last year. Last year? Scratch that, 2011. WOW. Okay:



That's a combined loading scenario, showing 12,000 RPM (3K over-rev) as well as an angular acceleration equivalent to a very harsh clutch engagement or missed shift. I think it was something like 800,000°/s². Anyway, I have a lot of fun doing this, and unfortunately there's a lot of analysis and pictures that unfortunately I have been too lazy to post. I'd be happy to send you some models and scenarios that I'd like to see and compare results.

I'm hoping to make some updates (on NEW news) later this week.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #565, 09-03-2014 03:21 PM
      I'm buying another new Cosworth head kit. This one is supposed to be complete.

RandomTask (jguer003@odu.edu) MSG #566, 09-03-2014 03:43 PM
      You must hate yourself if you're using nastran/pastran.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #567, 09-12-2014 04:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:

You must hate yourself if you're using nastran/pastran.


Occupational hazard, given the industry I work in.

So as I mentioned above I found another complete (new) Cosworth head kit. This should have everything I need to get the kinks worked out. The guys that I'm getting it from in Puerto Rico were turbocharged using stock Cosworth cams on a 3.0L Pontiac SD block. He said their last dyno pull was 1200hp. Best 1/4 mile time was 7.01 @ 198.

Once the kit arrives, if everything checks out I may start thinking about getting rid of my 2-valve head, intake, and pistons. I'd like to see someone complete a turbo setup with my 2V head. It's really close. The guy I'm getting the Cosworth kit from also has a few SCAT billet cranks and a block, as well as some other assorted parts that he's cleaning out of the shop. I have his email if anyone wants to get in touch.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #568, 09-22-2014 07:11 PM
      Thanks to these guys:



The *DOHC* Super Duty build is back online in a big, big way:



Carcenomy MSG #569, 10-26-2014 02:27 AM
      You don't know how much this update excites me, been following this thread for years. Only tripped over it again because I was perving at Nick Arias Jr aluminium SD4 blocks

ericjon262 MSG #570, 12-24-2014 05:36 PM
      any updates?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #571, 12-25-2014 01:28 AM
      Some...I've got everything inventoried and all of the parts I need for the Cosworth head swap are present and accounted for. Lifter bore plugs, cam gears, cams, timing cover...All there.



I may actually try to work on the car during the break, try to pull the gas tank and check the extent of the damage of sitting for several years.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 12-25-2014).]

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #572, 12-29-2014 07:56 PM
      Any guesses on what's going on here?

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 12-29-2014).]

ericjon262 MSG #573, 12-29-2014 08:39 PM
      making a stencil for a custom head gasket?



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #574, 12-29-2014 08:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

making a stencil for a custom head gasket?



Nope. Next!


ericjon262 MSG #575, 12-29-2014 08:45 PM
      media blast and paint?

RandomTask (jguer003@odu.edu) MSG #576, 12-29-2014 09:37 PM
      Piezo ceramic head gasket as an alternator replacement?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #577, 12-29-2014 10:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RandomTask:

Piezo ceramic head gasket as an alternator replacement?


I wasn't planning on it, but it sounds kinda cool now =D


ericjon262 MSG #578, 12-31-2014 10:00 PM
      so whats the scoop?

sleevePAPA MSG #579, 01-01-2015 02:03 AM
      Coffee table?

Fierobsessed (nstarfiero@aol.com) MSG #580, 01-03-2015 12:22 AM
      Saw this on eBay, thought of you...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rar...em2a48febdc3&vxp=mtr


fierosound (fierosound2@shaw.ca) MSG #581, 01-03-2015 11:00 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobsessed:

Saw this on eBay, thought of you...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rar...em2a48febdc3&vxp=mtr


Cool piece if he were running a carburetor.
With fuel injection and an ECM he'd need an ECM controlled distributor.



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #582, 01-03-2015 08:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobsessed:

Saw this on eBay, thought of you...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rar...em2a48febdc3&vxp=mtr


That mag is pretty sweet, I could run two and have a rotary switch in the cabin...Take me back to my flying days...As mentioned though, I am running EFI so someone else better scoop it up.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

More progress. The pattern was chosen for a reason...


ericjon262 MSG #583, 01-03-2015 11:08 PM
      some sort of 3d scan?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #584, 01-04-2015 03:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

some sort of 3d scan?


Bingo! I'm doing a photogrammetric 3D scan of the block. The process is sensitive to reflective surfaces, so I'm covering the machined areas with paper. The flaking orange plate and bare cast iron should work pretty well without doing anything else. When there's a nice overcast day I'll drag the block outside and take around 200 photos at around 5-10° spacing and varying heights. These will then be stitched into a point cloud model of the block.

I also have a process I'm working up to do the same thing for the engine bay.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 01-05-2015).]

dr_frankenstein56 (drfrankenstein56@yahoo.com) MSG #585, 01-12-2015 06:21 PM
      Ive watched this thread since day one in 04.

Figured now was the time to speak up.

I am essentially missing a few pieces to finish my engine, I need the Hilborn Injection manifold or carbed intake for the 801 head, I need a flywheel, and id like a cast alum timing cover. If anybody has any leads on this stuff I would greatly appreciate the info.


Thank you guys, been a good read here for 10 years.

Aj




Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #586, 03-08-2015 08:56 PM
      I'm late to this thread, but I'm wondering how the 3D scan worked out? When I started to upgrade my turbo, I scanned all my parts/engine bay to import to solidworks. I know its not professional quality, but I was able to pickup the important header flange 'planes' and get an idea of spacial relationships.





[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 03-08-2015).]

RWDPLZ MSG #587, 03-11-2015 09:11 PM
      I've also been watching since the first week, eagerly anticipating the finished product. Any decade now...

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #588, 06-19-2015 08:50 AM
      So I scored a new old stock Quartermaster Carbon-V clutch. It's from 2001, but brand new in box. 3 disc, 5.5". I would have liked one of the new Tilton or QM Carbon clutches, but I got this thing for ~$850, which is something like $3500 off the new price so there's that. And it has an extra flywheel that I won't be needing so I can recoup a little there too :-D

Another $300 for a new 1"x23 spline hub to go into the F40, and I'll be on my way. At this point I'm still leaning towards this solution:



I'm still looking at needing an additional 3/8" of clearance that will need to come from a spacer plate between the engine and trans. I was hoping to get everything packaged in without needing that, but I don't think it's going to happen. The clutch mounting surface sits ~1.43" out from the bellhousing. Max clutch clearance height is 2.23", plus 0.10" for good measure. That puts me at 3.66" I need to clear inside the bellhousing, and the max worn set-up height would be at 3.09" total.

per this thread: Transmission Bellhousing Depths


 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Here are the measurements I have. For the case depth, the two radii you have listed are the same for all transmissions. Also, the depth is limited by the aluminum bearing bosses for the transmission shafts.

code:

Case End of End of Retraced Extended End of TOB
Depth Input Shaft Splines TOB TOB Sleeve
92-94 HTOB Getrag: 2.454” -0.052” 0.316” 2.425” ------ ------
Isuzu: 2.462” 0.336” 0.562” 2.504” ------ 1.764”
F23: ??? ??? ??? 2.776” 1.899” ------
F40: 3.513” 1.128” 1.527” 3.529” 2.660” ------


[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 06-19-2015).]

ericjon262 MSG #589, 06-19-2015 09:45 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:
from here http://realfierotech.com/ph...30&start=200#p141772


FYI, Link doesn't work, say's "You are not authorised to read this forum.". Most everyone here won't have permission to view that if it's in the "Privileged Users Forum"



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #590, 06-19-2015 09:48 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

FYI, Link doesn't work, say's "You are not authorised to read this forum.". Most everyone here won't have permission to view that if it's in the "Privileged Users Forum"



Thanks, did a straight copy/paste from my original post.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #591, 06-26-2015 09:19 AM
      This thing is cool:



ericjon262 MSG #592, 06-26-2015 09:24 AM
     



Stubby79 MSG #593, 06-27-2015 04:05 AM
      Wow. THat thing looks like overkill. Sexy.

Steel MSG #594, 06-27-2015 05:28 AM
      Very nice find on the the Quartermaster.

Neils88 (nellerin@dal.ca) MSG #595, 06-27-2015 07:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

This thing is cool:



I just checked out their website....nothing cheap there! I wonder how that one would feel? Great buy for $850 !


michaelmount123 (michaelmount123@aol.com) MSG #596, 06-30-2015 09:52 AM
      Cosworth lists an ignition component for the SD-4 which I don't have, and MSD is no help so far. Anyone know what this box is?

MSD Heavy Duty ignition amp 82594

TIA


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #597, 06-30-2015 11:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by michaelmount123:

Cosworth lists an ignition component for the SD-4 which I don't have, and MSD is no help so far. Anyone know what this box is?

MSD Heavy Duty ignition amp 82594

TIA


From what rumor I can scare up from the Google overlords, it appears that MSD manufactured a GM Heavy Duty Ignition amp, which was essentially a rebranded MSD 6TN. Have you called MSD to see if they have a lookup for the old part number? Taking a guess from the other PN's called out, it looks like it's spec'ing a timing curve computer and a traditional MSD CD ignition box.

Are you planning on using the Cosworth EFI?


michaelmount123 (michaelmount123@aol.com) MSG #598, 07-01-2015 08:10 AM
      Yes, started with Google and MSD. MSD claims PN is too old and they can't help (I'm still bugging them, though). Yes, I'm trying to use the old Cosworth ECU. My fallback is to go to another commercial ECU.

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #599, 07-10-2015 01:28 PM
      The new clutch hub came in yesterday, 1" x 23 spline to fit Ford, Porsche, and Getrag F40. I figure this way if I decide at the last second to use a G50, I'm covered lol



pontiacjeff (tech@engineered.net) MSG #600, 09-28-2015 11:54 PM
      Updates?

I'm building a Cosworth for a customer. Looking for another Cosworth, preferably a complete engine.


michaelmount123 (michaelmount123@aol.com) MSG #601, 12-29-2015 03:25 PM
      [sup][/sup]

zjwester (zjwester@hotmail.com) MSG #602, 03-17-2016 12:12 PM
      Bump

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #603, 03-31-2016 11:50 AM
      So. Anybody know of the best place to score an F40 with the correct bellhousing?

GTaylor (ktmlew@yahoo.com) MSG #604, 04-15-2016 05:39 PM
      So? I'm assuming this thread has run it's course? Sometimes you are best sticking to the plan...ONE PLAN. Too many diversions.

aldan78 (aldan78@hotmail.com) MSG #605, 04-16-2016 12:04 AM
      Well since the thread has been running for over 10 years I don't think a 1 or 2 month absence counts it as dead. This is a really neat build and I am excited to see it finished. the builder has stuck with it this long I think he will probably finish.

GTaylor (ktmlew@yahoo.com) MSG #606, 05-21-2016 07:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

The new clutch hub came in yesterday, 1" x 23 spline to fit Ford, Porsche, and Getrag F40. I figure this way if I decide at the last second to use a G50, I'm covered lol



You still with us?


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #607, 05-25-2016 03:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GTaylor:


You still with us?


Nope


GTaylor (ktmlew@yahoo.com) MSG #608, 08-03-2016 05:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:


Nope

So what happened? Life, love, etc? Did you sell the car? What up?



ericjon262 MSG #609, 08-04-2016 02:07 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GTaylor:

So what happened? Life, love, etc? Did you sell the car? What up?


if I had to venture a guess, I would say it was sarcasm. if you look at this thread overall, there are gaps with no post for a while, then posts, then gaps, ect.


FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #610, 08-04-2016 12:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GTaylor:

So what happened? Life, love, etc? Did you sell the car? What up?


 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

if I had to venture a guess, I would say it was sarcasm. if you look at this thread overall, there are gaps with no post for a while, then posts, then gaps, ect.


Spot on. The big gaps are due to a simple fact: I'm trying to get steak results on a hot dog budget. I do okay, but I still only have an average paying job and this stuff is really expensive. (Yes, I have other occasionally expensive hobbies also). As an example, nabbing the clutch that I was planning on spending $4K for $1K instead probably cut a year or two off my build time. I'm still always planning on how to get this done.

Here's a look at an excerpt of a small part of my up-to-date build sheet:



That just covers the EFI and dashboard.

So to answer a question, no the project is not dead. Not even remotely close. Yes, progress is slow and will continue to be slow for the foreseeable future. If you're in to immediate gratification this is not the thread for you. If you want to see something cool done with pieces of extremely rare racing history, stick around. Right now the priority is drivetrain. Electronics advance at a pretty steady and rapid pace so that's last on the list.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 08-04-2016).]

GTaylor (ktmlew@yahoo.com) MSG #611, 08-27-2016 08:25 PM
      A buddy had an Iron Duke AMC Spirit dirt track car that i helped develop/build the engine. He bought an aluminum SD head from Jegs that was fully ported (probably too ported for dirttrack), some 6" C&A aluminum small journal small block rods (7), Diamond pistons, Ultradyne cam, Crane rockers, Edelbrock intake. A local machine shop narrowed the big end of rods by .077" from memory to match the Duke stock crank. When scrounging for bearings, only place that would make a set wanted $200.00 just for cutting the width of "stock" SB rod bearings. I made a mandrel out of a PVC fitting with a freeze plug in one end to stiffen it to clamp the bearings to with a hose clamp. Cut .030" off one side & .045 off other in lathe. Radiused inner edge of bearing using edge of a file. Took less than an hour to make tooling and do a set of bearings. We originally had serious oiling issues till a competitor told us to see if the oil filter bypass valve had been pushed into the oil galley. BINGO! Removed and plugged hole then used a different oil filter with bypass built in.

It never ran to full potential IMO due to his choice to use BB Chevy rockers (1.72?) instead of the rec 1.55 ratio. It sounded sweet though...so i am very interested in seeing this get done. Money is always an issue. How fast can you afford to go?


edfiero (jteague67@outlook.com) MSG #612, 10-14-2016 10:47 AM
      any update?

dratts (dratts2@gmail.com) MSG #613, 12-03-2016 12:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

So. Anybody know of the best place to score an F40 with the correct bellhousing?


I have two of them. Both zero hours.


edfiero (jteague67@outlook.com) MSG #614, 05-23-2017 03:58 PM
      6 months with no activity? Ready to put a fork in this yet?

FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #615, 07-10-2017 01:49 PM
      Looks like Photobucket finally bit the dust on free hosting. I'll have to go through all the old posts and relink = /

ericjon262 MSG #616, 07-10-2017 10:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

Looks like Photobucket finally bit the dust on free hosting. I'll have to go through all the old posts and relink = /



I'm in the same boat, makes my stomach turn thinking about it. I have been downloading all of the pictures I had on there, and I'm going to delete my account. I'd be willing to pay a reasonable amount, but they want $500 per year to host them...