Aurora 4.0l / Izuzu 5 speed swap into 88 coupe
Topic started by: cptsnoopy, Date: 04-27-2004 07:21 PM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000017.html


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #1, 04-27-2004 07:21 PM
      Well the work begins. I have had for several months an 88 yellow coupe with just under 80,000 miles waiting for an engine swap to happen. The car has no options other than a/c. Unfortunately the compressor and flex lines where missing. I had hopes of finding an ls1 or even better an ls6 to mate with a 4t65e-hd but instead I came across a low mileage aurora engine for a good price and so the plan changes. Now I will try to shoehorn this thing into the car using the stock izuzu five speed. I hope to use several components from chrfab. The Holley 950 commander and if they have one, a flywheel. I can cut and weld ok but I don�t have a lathe or a mill so I will be asking friends to fab some parts for me. This will take some time because there are several other projects at the home that need attention too. Thanks to all of the information already shared here I hope not to make too many blunders. I am inviting any and all ideas and or constructive criticism. Here are a couple of pics of where it's at now.

the car. the door skin is off because we needed to make a key for the doors and trunk.


the duke. only 80,000 miles on her. the first owner a gal who treated her right. the second owner drove her hard but only for a few months. when he decided to add performance parts, he ran out of dough and she sat for three years like this.


the "new" engine. hopefully the bottom end will check out good, the top end looks brand new. if anyone has brackets and components for sale I will be looking to pick them up.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

Songman MSG #2, 04-27-2004 08:46 PM
      I almost bought one of these. There is a guy up near San Francisco who has one. The Aurora caught on fire under the dash and burned the wiring and ICU but he says the engine and everything is fine. He only wants $300 for the complete engine and 4T80e tranny. I was about to go get it when he mentioned that the reservoir had melted off the power steering pump. Obviously power steering is not a major worry on a Fiero but I was wondering if anything else might have been damaged on the engine by the heat. Still might be a good thing for you, especially if you are interested in an automatic tranny...

Anyway... you might want to contact Rickady88GT. He just did a 3.5 in his 88. Exact same process as yours, just two less cylinders. He has worked out most of the bugs on this swap and doesn't mind sharing his experiences...



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #3, 04-27-2004 10:05 PM
      It sounds like that engine got hot. being Aluminum I would be very worried... Not to concerned about an automatic at this point. Unless I get the entire car but it has to have good wiring etc. thanks for the input. Rickady88GT already mentioned on another thread how difficult it might be to get all the extra stuff unless I find a donor car. I am hoping to get lucky...

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #4, 04-28-2004 02:44 AM
      My next conversion will be a North Star auto or the new 3.6DOHC 5speed but it wont be anytime soon. I wont do it without the entire car. I like all the little extras that you get with the new cars and to keep it smog legal in CA you need alot of little parts that will easely cost 2X the price of the engine and tranny I can part out what I dont use and try to break even on the drive train.
If you have any questions just ask or e-mail me. Mine is a little diferent than yours but I may sill be able to help.



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #5, 04-28-2004 10:43 PM
      I'm not sure if the Isuzu will work with the Aurora/N*. The clutch throwout arm on the Getrag requires "clearancing" to not interfere with the water manifold. The Isuzu has a much larger throw out arm, so be aware of the possibility that it won't work.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #6, 04-29-2004 01:40 AM
      Thanks Will,

I figured it would not cost anything to give a try and see how bad it is. I will report back when I try to mate the two together. I spent the day getting an engine hoist and jack stands. I had hoped to have the cradle behind the car by tonight and clean the mess tomorrow. At this rate I'll be lucky to roll the engine free sometime tomorrow.

Thanks for the offer Rickady88GT, I'll be asking questions for sure... In fact here is a quick question for you, Will or anybody. There is an intake manifold on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIte m&item=2476117605&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting

Would this be a bolt on item? I have read somewhere that I need to get the throttle body from earlier years to avoid getting an IAC stepper motor because of the Holley commander system. Is that true? Should I try to get this thing or pass on it?

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 04-29-2004).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #7, 04-30-2004 05:28 AM
      Got a little done today. Car is up, cradle is out and the duke is off the cradle. I will try to mate the 4.0l engine to the trans next just to see if it will work. Here are todays pics.


This is the car up in the air and engine hoist out of the way. Ready to roll that sucker out of there...


This is the Izuzu trans on the cradle. Now its time to see if this combo might work...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

longjonsilver (longjonsilver34@juno.com) MSG #8, 04-30-2004 07:25 AM
      can i ask a dumb question????? is the olds 4.0 a smaller version of the caddy 4.6 N* motor?
jon



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #9, 04-30-2004 11:59 AM
      Yes and so is the Olds 3.5L twin cam V6 (Short Star), they are all related.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #10, 04-30-2004 12:35 PM
      I am pretty sure the 4.0 is the same size on the outside, just smaller bore cylinders. Rickady88GT is the 3.5 a little shorter?

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #11, 04-30-2004 04:18 PM
      They are all exactly the same width and hight but the V6 has one row of cylnders cut off. So the S* is a little shorter in length.

this is a Corvette L98 a S* and the Stock 2.8 all side by side.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #12, 04-30-2004 06:31 PM
      maybe they could make a 4.6, short star? i tried squeezing this thing in the cradle with the tranny in the stock postion. it would not go because of the front engine mount support that is welded onto the cradle. it sure is a tight fit. Rickady88GT were you able to leave your trany on the stock mounts? or at least not move it to the left?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #13, 05-01-2004 06:01 AM
      here is the trany actually bolted to the engine, err, three bolts that is...


the izuzu trany required a little bit of trimming on the upper right side of the bell housing to clear the water pump manifold.


this is the area before trimming (from a different angle). this is the trans before i removed it from the duke.


from what i can see, there will be two centering pins and four total bolts holding this thing together. this bolt on the right side will need to be modified somewhat like the getrag/northstar mod. the other three bolts lined up.


hey will, here is the answer to the clutch arm question. it just won't work were it is! I think i can fab a new arm and set the slave cyl lower to match...


i was concerned that the tripot would not fit. luck was on my side... it fits but it comes very close the the oil pan.


here is the clearance between the tripot and the oil pan. i am not sure that it will work through the range of the suspension.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #14, 05-02-2004 03:55 AM
      i put the engine on the cradle today with the trany in the stock mounts. the front of the engine was resting on a couple of small pieces of wood on the cradle. the front of the engine was about 3/4 to 1 inch higher than it will be when mounted. i slid the cradle under the car and started lowering. suprise! the usual laundry list of stuff to be done. passenger side decklid hinge support will need trimming. the decklid support spring will need to be removed. a gas strut added to the pass. side to hold the decklid up. the dogbone mount will have to go. some trimming may have to be done to the pass. side strut tower. in addition to the clutch arm needing to be changed to pivot further back and the slave mounted to match. I thought about moving the trany further left but the left axle is so short, i will try not to move it more than 3/8 to 1/2 inch. hopefully the tripots have that much play. if not then i wont move it left at all. the foward cradle crossmember will be cut out and a new crossmember welded in several inches forward of the old location. pretty much the same stuff everyone else has been doing looks like the way to go. got a question regarding the izuzu trany input shaft. it looks like the shaft is too short for a t/o bearing. is this true? there is only about 1/8 inch of material forward of the clutch splines. does the getrag use a t/o bearing? maybe the flywheel is thick enough to make up the space between the crank and the input shaft... i will look at the duke to see what they did there...

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #15, 05-25-2004 06:38 PM
      its been a while since I actually went out and worked on the car. I removed the dogbone mount from the pass side strut tower and rear cross brace. I am not too happy with the method but the pieces are removed. I used a small pilot drill to drill out the middle of the spot weld and then a 1/2 inch drill to drill out just deep enough in the bracket to remove the weld. sounds good in thought but I am not the craftsman my mind seems to think I am... The good news is that it ought to work ok. Since I want to leave the trany in its stock location I will be trimming back the pass side strut tower as much as I can get away with and then welding a cap over the cut out area. That will happen after I put together the coilover shocks to see how much room there is.

this is the rough finish after removing the dogbone bracket


this is the battery tray area after removing the tray


this is the remains after the butcher job...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #16, 05-26-2004 11:56 AM
      Looks fun. I ground mine off with a 4inch grinder. Little to no finnish work after the brakets came off.
I plan to do the same thing you plan, when I do a N*. I will (plan) to use coil overs and then cut/reshape the strut.
As far as the stock Fiero mounts go I cut off the front mounting pad that whent under the crank pully and I cut out/replaced the entire frony crossmember that had the tranny mount on it but the 0ne Fiero mount for the left rear mount is the stock Fiero mount. I slotted the holes so it is not in the exact Fiiero location but it is close as far as left to right goes. But front to back may or may not be the same? I centerd the engine in the bay. I dont remember where it sat on the first trial fit but I now have two inches on both the trunk side and firewall side.

Have fun



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #17, 05-26-2004 02:07 PM
      How much of the dogbone mount did you really have to remove?

The normal mounting for the coil pack is on the black cam cover all the way toward the front of the engine (to the right as it sits in the engine bay). The coil pack comprises most of the interference between the Northstar and the dogbone mount.

There is a SECOND set of coil pack mounts that let you move the coil pack toward the transmission (to the left as it sits in the engine bay) by 4 inches or more. Once that's done, it looks like minimal trimming of the dog bone mount would be necessary to clear the cam cover. I just discovered this fairly recently...



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #18, 05-26-2004 11:39 PM
      Rickady88GT and Will, thanks for the inputs.

I used a 4 inch grinder on a small motorcycle trailer I put together last year. My wrists were sore for several weeks from the vibrations. kinda like tennis elbow. because of that i elected to go the more crude route of using the drill. I am hoping that it won't be too difficult to cover up the holes when it is time to finish the engine bay. I can't remember at the moment who posted a picture of their cradle with the forward crossmember cut out. but they left about 10 to 12 inches on the drivers side that still had the tranny mount in place. That person then welded their new crossmember all the way across from left to right and butted up to the forward edge of the remaining crossmember. It looked like it would hold up well. I am looking to do something along those lines, i think. Your original thought about not having the doner car is certainly holding true. I am waiting on the guy who sold me the intake manifold to let me know if he can supply the rest of the accessories that I need to fit the engine to the cradle. the big holdup now is needing an A/C compressor to see what clearance I will need for the front crossmember. i must have A/C out here as I am getting to old to survive the 4-55 A/C method any more. (2-55 in this car...) when i test fitted the engine/trans on the cradle and under the car, the cradle had the front motor mount cut out but the forward crossmember was still in place. this offset the engine slightly to the rear and about 1/2 to 3/4 inch toward the drivers side. so i am not too sure what kind of clearance i really have until i can cut and move the forward crossmember. this leads to Will's question. I am not sure exactly how much of the dogbone mount really needed to be removed but the portion that sits on the pass side strut tower was the first part that i ran into. i did not see a way in my mind to use the stock dogbone mount location so i removed the whole thing. once i get the cradle set up i will be able to see how it might work. i still need to pick up a coil pack along with alot of other goodies so i can see how they will fit. again, thanks for the good info. +'s sent

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #19, 05-29-2004 04:14 AM
      i managed to find an A/C compressor, not the correct one but close enough for checking clearances.
to keep the cradle the same width during the cutting and welding of the front cross member i used a piece of 1/2 inch all-thread stuck through the drag-link holes and double nutted each end. hopefully it'll be close enough. i cut out most of the front cross member and set the engine and trans on the cradle. i bolted the trans to the stock mounts and blocked up the front of the engine as level as i could. this time the engine is very close to where it will be after installing the custom engine mounts. after lowering the car over the engine, it appears that i will have just enough room after notching the pass side strut tower for coilover shocks. the pass side deck-lid mount support will be cut just below the upper bolt and down at about a 45 degree angle towards the firewall. this will leave just enough room for the driver�s side deck-lid support spring if i don't need to adjust it any tighter.

this is the 1/2" all-thread in place to hold the cradle at the correct size


this is the engine/trans sitting on the cradle after the front cross member was cut out. the part holding the trans mount remains


this is the other side of the engine and cradle, lots of room for the axles and exhaust (i hope)

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #20, 06-02-2004 11:42 PM
      i cut the pass side strut tower, approx 6" X 6". then the pass side deck lid hinge support at an angle to match the rocker cover.
i want to thank those who posted on removing the deck lid support springs with a tie down strap. it worked like a champ!

the car fit over the engine very well with one more thing to consider. the oil fill cap will either have to be modified so that it does not stick up above the rocker cover or I will have to cut the deck lid spring support out. i don't want to cut the support out because it is helping to support the deck lid hinge. i'll have to see what can be done with the oil fill cap. it would be nice to do what Rickady88GT did with his shortstar covers but I think these would be harder to mod like that. I noticed online that someone has cut in an oil filler cap on the middle of the rear rocker cover. i will try to do that also.

today's pics with the cradle bolts in...

here is the mockup. this is a rough idea of what it should look like after the motor mounts are fabbed and bolted in.


this is the pass side strut tower from a side view.


this is the pass side strut tower from a top view.


this is the pass side strut tower view from inside the wheel well.


this is the oil filler neck and the pass side deck lid spring support.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #21, 06-02-2004 11:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

How much of the dogbone mount did you really have to remove?

Will, I looked at the stock dogbone mount and it looks like it would not quite fit the way i have this setup. it would interfere with the PCV hole in the rocker cover at the bottom of the mount.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 06-02-2004).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #22, 06-03-2004 03:11 AM
      Looks like you are having fun
I see that hinge mount is VERY close to the cam cover? I would sugest haveing at least .75inch minimum between that hinge mount and engine. Unless you solid mount it. That just looks to close for comfort. Even with two dogbones the engine will move up and smash the cam cover on the decklid mount? You will have 250+ torque in that bad boy, that is enough to join the cam cover with the decklid mount if they are to close.


Master Tuner Akimoto MSG #23, 06-03-2004 03:43 AM
      I must commend you on your swap you have "Balls" especially cutting the strut tower that's one project

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #24, 06-03-2004 05:32 AM
      Rickady88GT,

you are right about that one. the clearance for now is 1/4" I'll have to make that bigger on the next trim. for now the plan is to use rubber or poly engine mounts.

Master Tuner Akimoto,

thanks. the fun will be in trying to weld the inset piece back in. I am thinking a beefy straight across strut tower brace may be in order.

i was able to put the suspension in with the stock springs and all... It will still need to have coilovers to get a reasonable amount of clearance though. for now I can eyeball where the water lines, exhaust and fuel lines might be routed.

fun? you bet!, sleep? not really...


DjDraggin MSG #25, 06-03-2004 06:03 AM
      wow reallllly great write up on this.. this is also going to be one of my projects soon (have I said that?? ohh well its late and bushing smokes got to me) I will be doing this same thing but to a 87GT with a getrag. please keep up the great documenting. it'll either make me or break me.. if my has to be done in a month 3800Sc doesnt kill me first!!!! L8



DjDraggin MSG #26, 06-22-2004 02:02 AM
      update please.. how things going?


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #27, 06-22-2004 02:19 AM
      Hi DjDraggin,

I am waiting for parts to come in. that way i can figure out how to mount the engine to the cradle without getting in the way of the exhaust, a/c, water lines, etc. I am still trying to find a used alternator if for nothing else to use as a core for checking clearances and then for getting a new alternator. so far i have received a few things but i have a ways to go. I am hoping to pick up the spec clutch and flywheel that Will and GXSRBOBBY are getting made for us. that and i am spending alot of time at work to help catch up on the parts bill... when i get a chance i'll do some more and post pics.

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #28, 07-13-2004 05:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
here is the clearance between the tripot and the oil pan. i am not sure that it will work through the range of the suspension.

Just a heads up, you can get neoprene boots that don't have "sharp" corners in them, that will probably give you an extra 1/4-1/2" clearance.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #29, 07-14-2004 01:11 PM
      thanks for the info ryan.hess. i will ask about those at the parts store.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #30, 08-03-2004 03:09 AM
      ok then... the fuel tank is nasty!!! here is a pic of the fuel pump/sending unit. any ideas on how to clean up a fuel tank that has this gunk in it? the outside of the tank looks great, the inside has lots of this dark crud sticking to the walls. any magic solvent to break this junk up without melting the plastic baffles? the plastic looks to be in ok shape for now.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #31, 08-03-2004 09:31 PM
      Lacquer thinner? lots of Brake cleaner?

Lacquer thinner/mineral spirits are at least available by the gallon.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #32, 08-04-2004 12:09 AM
      well, poop anyway. I am going to the junk yard tomorrow to see if they still have the 87 . i'll have to hope for the best. this one might be able to be cleaned but i doubt if breathing the odors is worth it.

EDIT: later the next day... went the yard only to find the 85 and 87 GT's had been removed and just two 84's were out there. no gas tanks to be had today... i tried to get some washers for the coilover conversion but after I removed the drivers side, i found the passenger side washer was missing. I bought the one washer for 89 cents and went home... kinda dismal...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 08-05-2004).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #33, 08-07-2004 10:20 PM
      I gave up on the gas tank for now. Since it will be a little while before I really need it I will keep my eyes open for a local one that will work. I almost got the fuel sending unit cleaned up and working but as I was cleaning the wiper arm, I snagged a small piece of metal and broke it off rendering the unit useless. It was really gummed up and rusted so I don�t know how well it would have worked if I did not break it.

I put the engine back in the car today and installed the suspension minus the springs. I wanted to see where the axles would travel as they go up and down, stop to stop. It looks like there will be just enough room to install the rubber mounts at the passenger side of the car, front and rear. Here are some more pictures. My apologies for those of you with dial up connections. I know this must take forever to load.











[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #34, 08-21-2004 02:31 AM
      still working on the lower motor mounts. got the pads and gussets welded on today. please excuse the hardware as I don't have the proper bolts just yet to secure the mounts to the engine. I will try to get the cradle mounts for these two motor mounts welded up tomorrow. then i can start working on the forward crossmember and the upper front and rear rubber mounts. when the mounts are finished I am hoping the engine will be supported even with the trans disconnected. as i am not an engineer, this will be interesting to see.
Note: the mounts are not quite finished yet, I plan on adding stiffners to the side were needed.
special thanks to darthfiero for the cheap 1/2 ton dodge motor mount suggestion.

view from passenger side of engine.


front of engine, lower mount


front of engine, lower mount, different view


rear of engine, lower mount


rear of engine, lower mount, different view

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #35, 08-22-2004 04:30 AM
      Have you put the right side drive axle in the tranny and hung the suspension on the cradle?
That motor mount on the right rear (pass side/trunk) looks like it is in the way of the long axle?
The axle will ride right inbetween the susp mounts and be an inch or two above the cradle with the susp fully extended.
You may have to make a longer mount that will not be in the way of the drive shaft?
You may have to look close but this is a pic of the S*. Look at where the drive shaft will be. This is an auto but the drive shaft runs in the same place for manual or auto.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #36, 08-22-2004 10:29 AM
      Hi Rickady88GT,

I put the cradle with suspension (minus springs) on the car and made marks (that's what the black lines are on the previous pics of the rear mount are. the gusset on the pass side is close but I can grind it down if I need to. there is still the possiblility that I messed up the measurements and will have to change it later though. thanks for the thoughts.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #37, 09-01-2004 04:46 PM
      i hope this works ok, it took enough time to fab... these are more pics of the lower pass side engine mounts, front and rear. Just as a note the forward mount bolted to the engine was a straight piece of 1/4" steel that was heated and bent to form the angles. the rear mount was cut in pieces first and then fitted to the engine, then welded to form the proper angles. that was much easier and quicker than heating and bending... again, the plan is to somehow fab mounts to the front and rear crossmembers that will attach near the middle of the engine heads to support the engine on four mounts and to have the tranny use its stock mounts. hopefully that will support the engine enough to not need a dogbone mount...

note: a couple of the pics are too tall to show, just click on the icon to see them...

view from the front.




forward engine mount pass side.






rear engine mount pass side.



[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #38, 09-01-2004 09:44 PM
      Cool.
Are you going to incorporate the front cradle brace into that front mount?


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #39, 09-02-2004 01:59 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

Cool.
Are you going to incorporate the front cradle brace into that front mount?


that is the plan for now. I am working on the tranny mounts right now. the forward one was coming apart so I borrowed another one of darthfiero's ideas and used the same type of mount to replace the rotten rubber. it took two pieces of 1/4" steel "pads", one on top and one on the bottom to make up the difference in space. the rear mount has a smaller space to fill so it will be different. when I finish those I will figure out how to replace the front cradle brace. what's left of the original brace that holds the trany mount and the front pass engine mount should hopefully both tie into the new brace...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

The Punisher (@hotmail.com) MSG #40, 09-02-2004 02:34 AM
      hey looking good. keep up the good work. This is great documentation

SH

neverendingproject (alanfraz@hotmail.com) MSG #41, 09-02-2004 07:14 AM
      Thanks for all the updates and great pics. Do you have any more of the clutch arm area? Do you have anything worked out for that yet? Any idea if a 4 speed would clear?



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #42, 09-02-2004 12:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by neverendingproject:

Thanks for all the updates and great pics. Do you have any more of the clutch arm area? Do you have anything worked out for that yet? Any idea if a 4 speed would clear?

the only pic that i have is the one showing the interference from the water manifold. I am thinking of three options.

modifing the arm lower and lowering the slave enough to match

cutting off the original arm extension and welding on an arm towards the front/drivers side of the car and using a "pull" slave.

taking out the arm altogether and trying a hydraulic T/O bearing.

I am waiting on the spec aluminum flywheel/clutch kit to get done before I start looking into the options...

I have not seen a 4 speed yet so I can't say if it will work with or wilthout mods...




KissMySSFiero (ssfiero@aol.com) MSG #43, 09-02-2004 03:34 PM
      nice. I have this one bookmarked. those mount pictures really help.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #44, 09-07-2004 01:12 AM
      So much for stock tranny mounts. I replaced the rubber on the forward and rear tranny mounts with the 1/2 ton dodge p/u mounts that darthfiero suggests in his swaps. A 1" chassis punch was used to make a hole in the cradle for the "new" rear tranny mount stud and nut to fit through. The one surprise that I found is that all of the dodge mounts are slightly different in thickness. Up to 1/4" difference from the thickest one to the thinnest one that I have bought. The nice thing about that is you can choose the right size for the job. The bad thing is when you want to replace one, you will have to pick through the ones at the store to find the right size... I would have used stock fiero tranny mounts if they were both available from the local parts store. The only one I could find listed was the forward one. Once the mounts were installed on the trans and the front of the engine I put the engine back into the car to verify that the clearances had not changed. This also allowed a chance to look at the pass. side axle to rear engine mount clearance. It is approx 1/4". The gusset will be ground a little bit to increase this to at least 3/8" and hopefully up to 1/2�. Just for grins a picture of the "trimmed" oil filler cap is thrown in to show how it can be set up to fit ok. I don't plan on using it when the car is done. I hope to have a new oil fill hole made in the rear rocker cover nearer the driver�s side of the engine.

hole in cradle for rear tranny mount stud and nut


axle to rear pass. side engine mount clearance


lower rear engine mount and axle (this welder needs some help! )


timmed oil filler cap

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #45, 09-11-2004 01:31 AM
      thanks Rickady88GT, SH, neverendingproject and KissMySSFiero for your complements.

Tonight I tried welding on a front cross member that would help support the lower forward engine mount and still leave enough room to install a cat in the original location. I hope that it will be sturdy enough to prevent twisting. I found that I welded it just a wee bit close to the a/c compressor. I will know just how close once the compressor/alt. brackets are done. The plan is to weld a brace/end-cap on the original front cross member piece to the new cross member to help support the tranny.




[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #46, 09-11-2004 02:52 AM
      Nice
do you think the front member is enough or are you going to add to it? That stock piece is much taller than the one you put in.
This is how I did mine.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 09-11-2004).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #47, 09-11-2004 03:37 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

Nice
do you think the front member is enough or are you going to add to it? That stock piece is much taller than the one you put in.
This is how I did mine.

I like the way yours looks. very clean on the front side.

I am going try and make the a/c compressor and alt brackets next to see if this crossmember is in the way. if it works were it is I will leave it alone until the rest of the exhaust and plumbing is routed. then I will see if I can beef up the cross member some more.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 09-11-2004).]

Nashco (nashco@hotmail.com) MSG #48, 09-12-2004 01:24 AM
      Good documentation, keep up the good work!

Bryce
88 GT


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #49, 09-16-2004 12:37 AM
      I have to say you have given me a few ideas on my Northstar mounts, good pictures with great deal. I would like to see the front cross memeber a little closer if you think about it next time you have the camera.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #50, 09-16-2004 12:13 PM
      thanks bobby,

i will get some more pics out today. the front crossmember has me concerned. I don't think it is enough to prevent twisting as well as the original front crossmember. So I am going to try and come up with a way to brace it better with gussets or add another piece all the way across and tie the two together. I still would like to have some room left over to have a cat under the front of the engine in the original location.

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #51, 09-16-2004 06:51 PM
      I was just going to over kill it when it comes time, a local place sells 1/4" wall 3"X 3" tubing for $7.50 a foot.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #52, 09-16-2004 10:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

I was just going to over kill it when it comes time, a local place sells 1/4" wall 3"X 3" tubing for $7.50 a foot.



i was thinking of doing that. then i thought I would try to retain some room in front of the engine for the cat. maybe I should not be "thinking"...

just as a note: compare the 1/4" wall with the 1/8" and 1/16". the 1/4" is very heavy stuff! that one piece may weigh as much as the whole subframe...

here are a couple more pics of where the front crossmember is for now. I am working on the a/c compressor mount to see if there will be enough room between the compressor and the crossmember when it is bolted up. I am thinking of putting another 1.5" square tubing crossmember further forward with gussets at each end. this poor subframe is going to weigh a ton. between the two crossmembers I will have a good solid base for the foward upper engine mount to the head.







[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

blackrams (blackrams7@aol.com) MSG #53, 09-17-2004 09:16 PM
      I am very impressed. Great documentation and sweet project. Keep it up.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #54, 09-18-2004 08:19 PM
      thanks blackrams, I just hope it works when it is done...

the v5 a/c compressor main bracket is done enough to mount the compressor and see how it looks. the front crossmember will need to be modified to give the a/c compressor just a little more breathing room. the alt is going to be very close to the firewall. so close that the heat shield will have to be notched were the alt cooling fins rotate to prevent shredding of the material. if neccessary, a smaller alt will be used instead of the stock aurora one. this is the price for using the fat v5 compressor that comes with the 4cyl 88 fieros. if this system works, the only mods to the a/c system other than the compressor brackets will be extending the hoses from the compressor about an inch or so to reach the drivers side connection.

here is a pic of the 1/4" steel a/c compressor bracket... note: the empty hole is a gunked up set of threads when I tried to drill out a snapped off bolt. it will be drilled out larger and a bolt/nut used there.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #55, 09-22-2004 03:09 AM
      wow! ran out of web space for my primary email name... too many pics! took awhile but I set up a secondary web space for more pics.

the original duke rear a/c compressor brace was cut and a new piece welded on to mount the rear of the compressor
again, that bolt on the left will be replaced with the proper one later...


after looking at the various methods of routing the serpentine belt, I went with the stock location for the tensioner and made a bracket for a 76mm grooved idler pulley that replaces the power steering pump pulley. (thanks again darthfiero for the part #) if I decide to put in power steering like Rickady88GT is designing, then it should be a bolt on item for the pump and little bit longer belt. this may look like a strange setup for the bracket but I don't know if it is ok to put a 1/4" steel bracket between the block and the heads because of the different heat expansion properties of the two metals. ( I suppose that means I ought to be concerned about the main a/c compressor bracket too...) so the bracket just bolts to the block and a piece is welded to the back that fits snugly under a cast lip to brace and hold the pulley in place. the next two pics show the bracket and then the last one is the final pulley/accessory setup before the belt is added.




[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #56, 09-22-2004 03:55 AM
      Cool. I like it.
The front member should probably be more "beefy". I would not even think about a cat in the stock Fiero location. Getting that ultra hot pipe that comes out of the cat would be to hard to get back to the rear of the car with out burning something. The longer and more complex the exhaust system is, the heavier and more expensive it will be. I have a cat (3 inch in 3 inch out) in my S*, in fact it is the cat that cam on the S*. But I dont have a mufler. I have two res tips. Ya, I know the tips will rot out or blow out but if I need a mufler that bad I can fit one very small mufler on each side of the car in the stock Fiero tip locations. I dont think it is that loud at all. It just seems like it would be VERY hard to use a cat in the stock Fiero location. I would love to do a N* but I havent yet so I am not sure of any other way to get the exhaust pipe around the N* other than the stock N* place that is under the oil pan. That is just to close to the oil pan for a ultra hot pipe to go throu. Then you would need to get the custom made "Y" pipe to deliver the exhaust from the rear bank over to the front bank via the conventional "over the tranny" location. That will add more surface aria to the exhaust pipe and cool down the exhaust so the cat wont work that well anyway. Then all that extra surface aria in the engine bay will heat up the engine bay even more. So to keep heat in the pipe and out of the engine bay you would need to get the system coated or wrapped bringing the cost WAY up. It is like a domino effect that just gets wors and wors.
The shorter the system is the better it will be.

If I misunderstood you please disregard.


I thaught long and hard about the exhaust system, and list it as one of the three major arias of doing a swap. And it is most likely going to cost more than the mounts to do the swap.
BTW I love to see how diferently we do things. It shows that we are getting better and better with each engine swap that is done.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 09-22-2004).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #57, 09-22-2004 05:14 AM
      Rickady88GT,

I am going to see how the exhaust system pans out before I make any changes to the front cross member. I agree it is too weak in its present form though. I think you are right about the heat. I hope to have dual exhausts with no common connections. For now the plan is to make manifolds that will be similar to the fiero's and after a 90-degree bend have a cat on each bank. The cats are 2" ID and are somewhat larger ID than the stock cross under. I do plan to go under the pan but with that section wrapped to carry the heat further rearward. The pipe under the pan will likely be a 2.5" pipe pressed into an oval shape to help it fit with enough space for the wrap. If I could I would wrap everything but the cats. I have no idea how much the stuff costs so I will have to find that out first. The exhaust tubing for the most part will all be 2" ID. For now I don't think that will be too restrictive and yet it won't be a big jump from stock either. I plan on the rear bank having the same length tubing as the front. Hopefully that will keep it reasonably balanced. It is definitely a compromise situation... There is room around the drivers side of the trans to run a 2 pipe with some to spare. It requires more tubing to do that so it will be option number 2. Since you and Will have not mentioned anything about needing mufflers, I dont plan on having any. Some sort of tips will be back there but I dont know which yet. Maybe stock style to help keep the sleeper look
(The plan is subject to change... lol)


Thanks for your ideas and input.

Ps: That power steering project your working on looks way cool!


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #58, 09-22-2004 04:58 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
The front member should probably be more "beefy".

Maybe, maybe not. It looks like it's welded securely. What's the wall thickness of that tubing?

 
quote
I would love to do a N* but I havent yet so I am not sure of any other way to get the exhaust pipe around the N* other than the stock N* place that is under the oil pan. That is just to close to the oil pan for a ultra hot pipe to go throu.

Don't know why you think that... the factory front bank pipe goes through there just fine, and in fact wraps up very tightly on the rear face of the block. Caddy hasn't had problems with it. Just ceramic coat and/or tack a heat shield onto your crossunder pipe and you'll be fine. I wouldn't wrap it as that adds to the size of the pipe in a very tight area. Ceramic coating does just as good a job as wrapping, but doesn't hold moisture, make a mess, etc.



ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #59, 09-22-2004 09:46 PM
      Well the header wrap is $36 for 50' of 2" material (Jegs)... which would cover about 6' of 2.5" pipe with a 1" overlap. i.e. it's reasonably cheap. I think you're in the same boat that I am... I didn't install the stock crossover tube before mating and installing the engine/tranny. (oops) So now I have a pipe hanging down below the cradle, and need to insulate it from the oil pan (and tranny pan). I was thinking of tacking a small sheet of steel onto the tube, and stuffing the layer between it with housing fiberglass... It'll probably be cheaper and better insulating than wrapping it (plus, it's what came with it stock). I haven't researched this fully yet though, but I should have a decision fairly soon.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #60, 09-23-2004 12:05 AM
      Will,

thanks for your input. I think the wall thickness is .125" but I will have to check on Friday when I get back home. my concern is that the cradle may be able to twist near the front adding twisting loads to the front cradle mounts on the chassis. I don't know if that is a problem or not. It appears the cradle is built much stronger across the rear cross member which is much closer to the rear suspension. maybe that is where all the strength needs to be anyway.

Ryan,

thanks for the info. I hope to get to that point in the exhaust before Halloween... I have to make the manifolds which will be new to me. I have the flanges but still need to buy some tubing and bends. I did mount the caddy manifolds and crossunder pipe but found that I would have to get a smaller diameter inner cv joint. that and having to cut the trunk is why I decided not to commit to the stock exhaust just yet. if this homemade plan does not work then I may go back to that.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 09-23-2004).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #61, 09-23-2004 04:23 AM
      cptsnoopy, I sat in the garage for a little while last night "could sleep, bad tooth" and I did deside a one piece bar and a 3" X 3" with a 1/8" wall is what I am going with, I think anything thicker would not allow me to get a good strong weld on and like you said it would be so much heavier than really needed. But I am sure on just using a 1 piece bar to make it stronger.



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #62, 09-24-2004 12:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
thanks for your input. I think the wall thickness is .125" but I will have to check on Friday when I get back home. my concern is that the cradle may be able to twist near the front adding twisting loads to the front cradle mounts on the chassis. I don't know if that is a problem or not. It appears the cradle is built much stronger across the rear cross member which is much closer to the rear suspension. maybe that is where all the strength needs to be anyway.

Are you saying that you're worried about the off center location of the engine mount pulling up harder on the right side of the cradle than the left? that is completely a non-issue.
One important thing that it appears you have not done, however is brace the remainder of the stock cross member to the new cross member. Gotta support that trans mount better.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #63, 09-24-2004 10:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

cptsnoopy, I sat in the garage for a little while last night "could sleep, bad tooth" and I did deside a one piece bar and a 3" X 3" with a 1/8" wall is what I am going with, I think anything thicker would not allow me to get a good strong weld on and like you said it would be so much heavier than really needed. But I am sure on just using a 1 piece bar to make it stronger.

definitely a good idea. several of the swaps that I have read about use that or a very similar style of crossmember and they seem to like it. It should be a good size for adding mounts to if you decide to support the engine from the head like the stock cadillac mount.

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Are you saying that you're worried about the off center location of the engine mount pulling up harder on the right side of the cradle than the left? that is completely a non-issue.
One important thing that it appears you have not done, however is brace the remainder of the stock cross member to the new cross member. Gotta support that trans mount better.

actually I am worried since my passenger side lower mounts will tend to twist the right rail inward that it may need more support from the front crossmember to help negate that effect. It may be nothing to worry about, I just don't have any idea how much twisting force will occur when I hit bumps and stuff like that. If it does twist, how bad would that be for the forward cradle mounts that are welded to the spaceframe? maybe they are plenty strong, I just don't have a good feel for what they can handle. If I am am able to support the engine front and rear using mounts near the drivers side of the heads then that should help minimize any twisting on the right side rail... you are right about the stock front crossmember not being supported. I was going to wait until I have a good idea about the exhaust routing and then tie the two front crossmembers together with gussets or some other type of bracing.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #64, 09-25-2004 12:05 AM
      just a quick update: the idler pulley was too small at 76mm. very close to working though. I found an idler pulley that is 109mm and put it on instead. as luck would have it no changes had to be made to the mount. now there is actually a belt around the mess... since it looks like it will work this way the rest of the alternator brackets will be made next. the tensioner pulley mount has a little flex to it when the belt is put on so a gusset will be added to prevent that.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #65, 09-25-2004 12:35 AM
      Go Snoopy go



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #66, 09-25-2004 09:09 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
actually I am worried since my passenger side lower mounts will tend to twist the right rail inward that it may need more support from the front crossmember to help negate that effect. It may be nothing to worry about, I just don't have any idea how much twisting force will occur when I hit bumps and stuff like that. If it does twist, how bad would that be for the forward cradle mounts that are welded to the spaceframe? maybe they are plenty strong, I just don't have a good feel for what they can handle. If I am am able to support the engine front and rear using mounts near the drivers side of the heads then that should help minimize any twisting on the right side rail... you are right about the stock front crossmember not being supported. I was going to wait until I have a good idea about the exhaust routing and then tie the two front crossmembers together with gussets or some other type of bracing.

Don't forget that the stock V6, which is only a tiny bit lighter than the engine you're installing, has its forward mount cantilevered off the side of the cradle rail as well... I don't think it will be an issue at all.



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #67, 09-25-2004 09:16 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

just a quick update: the idler pulley was too small at 76mm. very close to working though. I found an idler pulley that is 109mm and put it on instead. as luck would have it no changes had to be made to the mount. now there is actually a belt around the mess... since it looks like it will work this way the rest of the alternator brackets will be made next. the tensioner pulley mount has a little flex to it when the belt is put on so a gusset will be added to prevent that.

I guess there wasn't a slightly short belt available to work with the 76mm idler? What length belt are you using?



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #68, 09-25-2004 03:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


I guess there wasn't a slightly short belt available to work with the 76mm idler? What length belt are you using?

when the 76mm was on there a 72" belt looked just right. but even though I checked clearances with a nylon strap the belt was just barely rubbing on the bottom of the tensioner. (the belt was a bit thicker than the strap) the pulley was not quite big enough to provide acceptable clearance both over the top and under the tensioner. going to the 109mm required a 74" belt and it clears under the tensioner by about 1/8" and has lots of clearance over the top. since the bottom part is so close the the tensioner wheel i don't think it can rub even with the belt moving back and forth a little.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 09-25-2004).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #69, 09-25-2004 03:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Don't forget that the stock V6, which is only a tiny bit lighter than the engine you're installing, has its forward mount cantilevered off the side of the cradle rail as well... I don't think it will be an issue at all.

thanks for that info! the truth is i have not looked at the mounts on a stock v6... even though i have one outside.. dohhh...



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #70, 09-26-2004 01:12 AM
      does anyone know what the tensioner marks should look like when the belt length is correct. here is a pic of where the marks ended up.


this pic is the idler pulley bracket with a gusset added.


this one is the rear a/c compressor with a gusset added also.


the alternator brackets are done for now. just need to get the correct nuts and bolts to finish the job.
the first pic is the front lower bracket. it is just a short piece of 1/4" steel. the second pic is the rear alt bracket.


[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #71, 09-27-2004 04:01 AM
      The front cross member was cut to provide more clearance under the a/c compressor. A piece of 1/8� steel was welded over the cut area. Another length of 1.5� sq. tube was added below the modified piece to provide more support.



[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

rubyredfiero MSG #72, 09-27-2004 08:46 AM
      I really appreciate the info you are providing. Although I am not doing the swap, it helps to see the amount of innovations with detail. Great write up. A+ for you.

Patrick Horne (phorne_tca@yahoo.com) MSG #73, 09-30-2004 02:40 PM
      Great write up and excellent details.

Just curious: are you using the 4.0l alternator or the fiero one?

By the way, nice fabrication work.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #74, 09-30-2004 06:32 PM
      thanks rubyredfiero and Patrick Horne.

I am using a cadillac deville alternator that i got off ebay. it should be the same as the olds aurora alternator but I am not sure...

I looked at using the fiero alternator but the mounting holes are such that it does not save much space even though it is much smaller than the caddy alternator.

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #75, 10-01-2004 03:53 PM
      Maybe I'm dense... Did you not get brackets or accessories with your engine?



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #76, 10-01-2004 07:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Maybe I'm dense... Did you not get brackets or accessories with your engine?



No, you got it right Will, just a long block... it came with a couple of extras like the water pump and main belt tensioners. the rest I picked up on ebay. as Rickady88GT said, this is not the recommended way to go... I will know in a month or so if it is a good engine or a warranty engine. it was sold to me as a good engine.

on a happier note this just showed up today.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #77, 10-01-2004 07:12 PM
      Is that the Holley Commander or just a redone wiring harness?



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #78, 10-01-2004 07:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

Is that the Holley Commander or just a redone wiring harness?

it is the Holley Commander from chrfab. it comes with the wiring harness, O2 sensor and software. I also bought the data cable for my laptop. I guess I am committed now. Alan was very quick getting it out. I ordered it on Wednesday.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 10-01-2004).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #79, 10-02-2004 04:37 AM
      I just wish CA would let us run those on the street That would make life sooo much easier. In fact I would bet money that that system on your N* will run cleaner than a stock Fiero. But you just cant tell some people that

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #80, 10-02-2004 07:36 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

I just wish CA would let us run those on the street That would make life sooo much easier. In fact I would bet money that that system on your N* will run cleaner than a stock Fiero. But you just cant tell some people that

do they plug in and look for a number? if you tell them it is the OBDI year and hide the computer where the stock one is would they be able to tell? out here i was told i could not use my analog holley projection on my pickup but they pass it every year even though the computer is sitting on the trans hump inside the cab. go figure...?



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #81, 10-02-2004 08:03 AM
      the front cross member was beefed up a little more and the ends of the tubing capped. it should hold ok...




there has been a little progress on the upper mounts. had to put the swaybar and right suspension with axle on to check for clearances. on the forward one the engine will be supported by both the head and the block. on the rear one the engine will be supported by the head only.



[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #82, 10-02-2004 10:39 AM
      Completely fabbing your own brackets?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #83, 10-02-2004 03:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Completely fabbing your own brackets?

so far i am. it is not the greatest idea because they weigh a ton. i should have weighed the cradle before i started, it feels much heavier now. I will weigh it when I am done and compare it with a weight that someone can post for me. i will be very suprised if the engine ever pulls out of the mounts. going for overkill...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 10-02-2004).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #84, 10-02-2004 05:21 PM
      Well, when I am building my mounts I am sure I will also go a little over what is needed. But then again I do that with everything I do "I HATE redoing stuff"!!!!!

By the way what rubber mount is that again, is that a Dodge truck mount?


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #85, 10-05-2004 12:15 AM
      I pulled the front of my motor apart to see just what I wanted to do tonight as far as running the belt and I think I am going to run it close to what you did. However, I was thinking of just mounting the idler pulley on the head?

Do you know what the part number is for the grooved Idler pulley you used Snoopy or what auto and motor its from?
Also, I was wondering what the stock size belt is?

This is the way I was looking at running the belt, I was thinking I may be able to just use the stock bent?



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #86, 10-05-2004 01:05 AM
      Bobby,

I wanted to be sure of your routing. I have mine routed like this. I am pretty sure that is the stock routing with the exception of the idler pulley instead of the pwr strng pump pulley.



this pic shows why I did not bolt the pulley to the head. it would have interference from the tensioner and the bolt that holds the alt bracket.


I don't remember the stock size belt, the auto store guy told me about a month ago and I think it was around 83" or so. but you can call and ask your parts guy. the belt that is working for me is 74" long. the fiero v5 a/c compressor has a slightly smaller pulley than the caddy HR-6 compressor. also my a/c compressor is moved out about 3/8" or so further away from the crank than stock. because the a/c compressor is out further, the alt may be out further also but i did not have the stock brackets to compare it with. the idler pulley is a DAYCO brand # 89014 109mm 6 grove pulley. it took four trips to the store to get the idler and belt size correct...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #87, 10-05-2004 01:41 AM
      I see what your saying and I was looking at that but without a pulley on there wasn't sure.

Also I sent you a P.M.



pavo_roddy MSG #88, 10-17-2004 09:32 PM
      HI all,

Any more updates on this..???

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #89, 10-17-2004 10:41 PM
      pavo_roddy, he has been sick so I don't think he has been up to much lately. I am sure he will be jumping on it again soon though.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #90, 10-17-2004 11:11 PM
      the cold is mostly gone. i had the fun of cleaning the outside of the trans. then cutting the starter notch. I got started on this because the spec flywheel and clutch came in last week. the flywheel had to go back for another one but they really look sharp! so this time the trans should be ready to go on when the flywheel shows up.

starter notch. this was not too hard to cut and shape with the trusty dremel.


one pretty clean trans. no paint for this thing. it will match the engine this way.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

pavo_roddy MSG #91, 10-18-2004 06:34 AM
      Hi all,

Glad to hear your doin better....

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #92, 10-18-2004 06:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by pavo_roddy:

Hi all,

Glad to hear your doin better....


Thanks pavo_roddy!

now here is what showed up today... wish me luck please...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

Nashco (nashco@hotmail.com) MSG #93, 10-19-2004 08:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


Thanks pavo_roddy!

now here is what showed up today... wish me luck please...

Where did you order from? What do you think of the price/quality/service? I've been pricing out exhaust components lately, trying to decide where I want to go through.

Bryce
88 GT


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #94, 10-19-2004 04:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Nashco:


Where did you order from? What do you think of the price/quality/service? I've been pricing out exhaust components lately, trying to decide where I want to go through.

Bryce
88 GT

SPD - specialty products design, inc.
11252 Sunco Drive
Rancho Cordova, CA 95742-6515
1-888-778-3312 (toll free)
916-635-8108 (phone)
916-635-2970 (fax)
email: info@spdexhaust.com
web: http://www.spdexhaust.com/

these guys were recommended to me and I have only used them this one time. I think the quality is outstanding. the exhaust flanges look beautiful. I compared prices from summit and these guys were slightly more but summit did not have everything i needed. Their webpage is not complete so you can go down to the bottom of the home page and download their catalog in .pdf format. the price guide is below the catalog. I highly recommend that you look at buying from these guys. they were very friendly and helpful on the phone. keep in mind that this is the first time I have bought an exhaust system in parts to be built.

edit: i wanted to add that the exhaust header flanges and exhaust tube flanges are CNC cut and not stamped out crud... that pic above does not do them justice.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 10-19-2004).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #95, 10-21-2004 04:42 AM
      got started on the exhaust. scary having never done this before... much harder to weld when you can't get the angle you need.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

James Bondo (hemicuda@look.ca) MSG #96, 10-21-2004 08:49 AM
      You got the exhaust pointed in the wrong direction! They should be pointed up like a top fuel dragster - look wicked cool at night! Nice weld bead by the way. It's like watching American Chopper.

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #97, 10-21-2004 10:28 AM
      Just bolt that on the other side and it will point up...

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #98, 11-01-2004 08:27 PM
      overdue update...

more work on the exhaust manifolds. after figuring out what length to make the primary tubes the shaping of the ends and cutting of the log portion is in progress.

here is the flange and primary tubes cut to length and mounted on the engine to check for clearance.


here is the other exhaust manifold in progress...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

pavo_roddy MSG #99, 11-02-2004 12:48 AM
      Hi all,

Nice work so far...lookin like a winner!!!

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #100, 11-02-2004 09:40 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by pavo_roddy:

Hi all,

Nice work so far...lookin like a winner!!!

Thanks pavo_roddy!

I sure hope this is a good engine... I can't wait to hear it purrrr.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #101, 11-02-2004 09:33 PM
      taking a break while this cools off. ugly welds but maybe it'll work...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #102, 11-03-2004 03:27 PM
      is this what you call a "straight pipe"?

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #103, 11-03-2004 11:52 PM
      the front manifold is pretty much complete. now for the rear one...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

pavo_roddy MSG #104, 11-09-2004 08:07 AM
      Hi all,

It's not that long a time till you try and test fit this into the engine bay, so I was curious if you already have???? If so, or not, do you think there will be clearance issues?? What kind?? Any trunk cutting, things like that ya know...

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #105, 11-09-2004 01:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by pavo_roddy:

Hi all,

It's not that long a time till you try and test fit this into the engine bay, so I was curious if you already have???? If so, or not, do you think there will be clearance issues?? What kind?? Any trunk cutting, things like that ya know...

hi pavo-roddy,

I have had the engine on the subframe and in the car more than ten times since I started. most of the cutting issues to clear the block are shown on page one. the only reason for going through all of this time and effort to make the exhaust manifolds is to save the bottom of the trunk. I could have used the stock manifolds and crossover pipe but I would have had to changed the passenger side CV joint at the tranny for a smaller diameter one and also I would have had to cut out the bottom of the trunk. as it is, I don't think this exhaust will be any better than the stock one. maybe even worse because of all the tight radius bends that i will be using. it is a learning experience though and rewarding to see it going together. too bad I don't know how to weld better...



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #106, 11-12-2004 04:22 AM
      speaking of test fitting....

I fit the engine into the car yesterday to see how the 180 degree bend on the rear exhaust manifold was going to work and it is too low. when the suspension compresses all the way the sway bar pushes up on the rear exhaust manifold. there is room to move it up and out of the way though. I pulled the injectors off of the intake manifold and fuel rail. they look pretty good. later today they will go to the local shop for cleaning and flow checking. a new fuel pressure regulator will be bought if I don't buy the custom fuel rail that the guy in Canada is making for the Toystar.

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #107, 11-12-2004 12:40 PM
      Is that thing running yet? It's been 6 months... Nice diy headers btw... I could't build those things if I tried.

Black-Azz-GT (chris@hawkscay.tv) MSG #108, 11-12-2004 12:43 PM
      Looking good. Not bad for your fist headers! Keep it up.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #109, 11-12-2004 02:33 PM
      Thanks guys! I hope it's ok to clean the weld bead down and cut the pipe on the weld. If that works ok then I can position the pipe higher and get the clearance needed to miss the sway bar. I was hoping to start this thing before Jan 05. That may still happen but it will be close. Too many other things going on that have to get done...

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #110, 11-16-2004 01:48 AM
      By the way, I took my Northstar off the engine stand today to install the flywheel, if there is any pictures you need to compair yours to a Northstar just let me know? Glad to hear your still moving along, by the way take your time now, winter is here so do it right, or thats what I keep telling myself?!?!?!?!?!



GTDude (skyhawk@moonstar.com) MSG #111, 11-16-2004 09:38 AM
      Looks great! Best luck to ya. I'm impressed with the quality of your work.

On another note, I bought a '95 Aurora with the 4.0 in it. It runs like a scalded dog even in this big ass car. I was just wondering if anyone knew what horsepower and torque the engine has. Thanks for the info. Peace.

Phil



KitKar (rick@desertlord.com) MSG #112, 11-16-2004 05:08 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

By the way, I took my Northstar off the engine stand today to install the flywheel, if there is any pictures you need to compair yours to a Northstar just let me know? Glad to hear your still moving along, by the way take your time now, winter is here so do it right, or thats what I keep telling myself?!?!?!?!?!

Winter? What's that? We don't have winter in Phoenix!



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #113, 11-16-2004 08:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GTDude:
Looks great! Best luck to ya. I'm impressed with the quality of your work.

On another note, I bought a '95 Aurora with the 4.0 in it. It runs like a scalded dog even in this big ass car. I was just wondering if anyone knew what horsepower and torque the engine has. Thanks for the info. Peace.

Phil

thanks GTDude,
if I stand back about 5 feet or so it looks pretty good, but up close... well that's a little different.
the aurora should put out 250hp and 260 ft/lbs of torque. i don't know what to expect with this setup...

 
quote
Originally posted by KitKar:
Winter? What's that? We don't have winter in Phoenix!

it's a beautiful thing isn't it? GXSRBOBBY may get a chance to see what we mean.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #114, 11-16-2004 08:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

By the way, I took my Northstar off the engine stand today to install the flywheel, if there is any pictures you need to compair yours to a Northstar just let me know? Glad to hear your still moving along, by the way take your time now, winter is here so do it right, or thats what I keep telling myself?!?!?!?!?!

Thanks GSXRBOBBY,

when i get the chance to try the 2nd new flywheel out i will know if I can use your pics. for now it looks like it will work great!



GTDude (skyhawk@moonstar.com) MSG #115, 11-16-2004 08:26 PM
      mmmmmmmm 250 hp and 260 ft lbs of torque would put a smile on my face that a brillo pad couldn't take off.........lol......in my Fiero of course. Can't wait to hear what you say about the seat of the pants feel you experience the first time you KICK IT! Good luck and peace.

Phil



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #116, 11-19-2004 07:37 PM
      not much to report, been in training all last week and into next week. got the injectors cleaned though. these were from a $75 95-99 caddy N* intake complete with injectors, injector harness, t/b and fuel rail (stock plastic one) it was obvious that this intake had been sitting around for some time. I took the injectors in yesterday afternoon and got them back this afternoon.

in the receiving flow check this is how they did.
#1-_90ml, #2-_98ml, #3-_98ml, #4-_92ml, #5-100ml, #6-_98ml, #7-100ml, #8-_99ml. not too bad for sitting around so long.

after cleaning this is how they did.
#1-_97ml, #2-_98ml, #3-100ml, #4-_96ml, #5-100ml, #6-_98ml, #7-100ml, #8-100ml. not too good though after cleaning...

but the engine should run pretty good with the injectors flowing within 4%. and now we know they are all working too.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #117, 11-25-2004 01:10 AM
      I was able to grind down the weld, cut, reposition and re-weld the 180 degree bend in the rear exhaust today. as usual the weld looks like crap...


I have noticed that the cradle is much more difficult to put in lately. I am guessing that when I put in the front crossmember I must have cut it too short. I checked both sides of the front cradle attachment points and sure enough it is not wide enough for a good fit anymore. approx 3/16" each side. dohhh! I will have to see what I can do about that. I may have to cut the front crossmember out and start over on it... next time I cut the piece to fit with the cradle bolted into the car....!

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #118, 11-25-2004 06:48 PM
      I was wondering how well you'd kept the cradle straight while doing all that work...

When I did mine, I didn't fully cut out the factory X-member until the new X-member was completely welded in.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #119, 11-25-2004 07:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

I was wondering how well you'd kept the cradle straight while doing all that work...

When I did mine, I didn't fully cut out the factory X-member until the new X-member was completely welded in.

in my simple way of thinking, I had hoped that the 1/2 inch all-thread would keep the correct width up front. I suppose the correct way to do it would be like you did or fab a jig, then weld.



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #120, 11-25-2004 11:16 PM
      When we talke don the phone the other night I was going to ask you this but forgot. Did you or how did you support the cradle when you cut off the front cross memeber? I am using some threaded stock and have been wondering if that is going to be enough?



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #121, 11-25-2004 11:42 PM
      I did mine like Will on my 88. But on the 87 I did for my S* ( I did the 87 first then redid it into the 88 ) I just cut the front member and made the new one for it. But I had no probems with it.
I would not think that that is a problem. It looks like all you have to do is cut the littlr tube so it will fit in right. Then get a spacer to fill the gap on the other side?

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 11-25-2004).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #122, 11-26-2004 02:52 AM
      I used 1/2" threaded rod through the trailing arm mount bolt holes to maintain the width. I think that started out ok. I wonder if the heating and cooling from the welding caused the front ends of the cradle to curve in a little? if the inner sides of the front arms shrank just a little from the welding that may be a contributing factor. as is obvious, I am learning as I go.
do you guys think it would be ok to heat of the front arms of the cradle on both sides where the crossmember is welded and bend out the front of the arms to fit? do you think that will destroy the strength of the cradle? the left front mount is straight, the right front mounting hole now points down on the inside edge and also rearward. so much so that I can't get the bolt through it anymore when I try to mount it. it was a hassle before now it is bent just far enough to not want to force it. I also wonder if the cooler temps around here are contributing to it also. I welded it up when it was 110 degrees out and now it is in the mid 60's. anyway I plan on trying to fix it tomorrow... fingers crossed

edit: work got me and now I won't get to fix on the car until next week...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 11-28-2004).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #123, 12-01-2004 01:48 AM
      had a couple of hours free tonight so out came the cradle and engine. after removing the engine from the cradle, I used the jack from the hoist and some heat from a propane torch to gently ease the right x-member arm back to square. to my surprise it lined up on the second attempt... now I can concentrate on finishing the exhaust again.

this is the cradle after tweaking it back to fit correctly.


this is just a teaser shot of the engine...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #124, 12-01-2004 11:55 AM
     



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #125, 12-01-2004 08:03 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
this is just a teaser shot of the engine...

Don't these engines look awesome with the manual transmissions on them?

The small size of the transmission underscores the huge size of the engine... NICE!

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #126, 12-01-2004 09:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Don't these engines look awesome with the manual transmissions on them?

The small size of the transmission underscores the huge size of the engine... NICE!

poor little tranny. I hope it lasts more than a week...

thanks Will, I definitely agree



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #127, 12-02-2004 01:11 AM
      Man I said the same thing when I saw that little tranny
I put a 5 speed on my S* and it did not look that little. The N* has that coolant/EGR cross over and water pump that make it look so much bigger than the S*. Those parts hang over the tranny and dwarf it.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #128, 12-02-2004 03:20 AM
      ok, this time I only tack weld until it's checked for clearances... (slow learner)

front exhaust and baby cat from ryan.hess


rear exhaust until I check for clearance again...


[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

starfighter007@msn.com (starfighter007@msn.com) MSG #129, 12-02-2004 01:00 PM
      Allright slacker lets get back to work Man this is awesom what you are doing ,You are making this project look so easy .where are you located in Phx.? I am near 12th st. and northern If you need someone to test drive that bad boy when it is done I will be more than willing keep up the good work .

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #130, 12-02-2004 01:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by starfighter007@msn.com:

Allright slacker lets get back to work Man this is awesom what you are doing ,You are making this project look so easy .where are you located in Phx.? I am near 12th st. and northern If you need someone to test drive that bad boy when it is done I will be more than willing keep up the good work .

Lol! thanks, it would take a video camera to see what's really going on. i only take pictures after the cussing is over...

I am at 40th street and Chandler Blvd. if it ever does get done I'll drive it over and you can check it out.



ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #131, 12-02-2004 03:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
I am at 40th street and Chandler Blvd. if it ever does get done I'll drive it over and you can check it out.

Read: Nobody drives my car!!

it's okay, I don't even let my dad drive my car



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #132, 12-02-2004 04:07 PM
      I am the same way about letting people drive my car. But I let many people drive my car at the Ca. Coast Run. I wanted people to feel the power steering to judge for them selfs if the Fiero feels better with it. I will say that everybody that drove my 3.5 S* with power steering was Very respectfull and kind. I told some of them to push it but they chose not to. Only a few of them even hit the 6700 red line. I have no problem dispelling the mith that the 88 wont benifit from power steering. My reason for power steering is for a MUCH faster ratio and not so much for less effort. So the first thing they said was how well it feels. So I am sure that other people wil drive it too. But if it were just stock steering I dont think I would let so many drive it.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #133, 12-02-2004 07:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:


Read: Nobody drives my car!!

it's okay, I don't even let my dad drive my car

I don't blame anyone for being extra careful with their baby

I will have to treat each test drive on a case by case basis. not just carte blanche.

 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

I am the same way about letting people drive my car. But I let many people drive my car at the Ca. Coast Run. I wanted people to feel the power steering to judge for them selfs if the Fiero feels better with it. I will say that everybody that drove my 3.5 S* with power steering was Very respectfull and kind. I told some of them to push it but they chose not to. Only a few of them even hit the 6700 red line. I have no problem dispelling the mith that the 88 wont benifit from power steering. My reason for power steering is for a MUCH faster ratio and not so much for less effort. So the first thing they said was how well it feels. So I am sure that other people wil drive it too. But if it were just stock steering I dont think I would let so many drive it.

If I ever get to see you and your car you can bet that I will be asking about the power steering! (ppllleeaasseee, can I try it, pleeeaassee?)



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #134, 12-03-2004 02:44 AM
      i managed to flatten the exaust pipe a little bit where it goes under the oil pan. mostly to allow a little room for a piece of sheet metal or something for a heat shield. then the engine and cradle went back under the car to make sure it was all going to fit ok.
the front exhaust gets a little close to the a/c freon return line but it should be ok. the rear exhaust looks pretty good but I need to figure out how to fit the other baby cat back there and still get the pipe to fit around the corner... the last pic is just a reminder that there really is a car involved...







[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #135, 12-11-2004 03:29 PM
      I got a new birthday/christmas toy that ought to come in handy!

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #136, 12-11-2004 03:58 PM
      Man! That is exactly what I have been looking at!

I want one of those too!

Let me know how it works, I always wondered if can recharge fast enough to keep up, I don't
really want one that runs all the time.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #137, 12-11-2004 04:51 PM
      all I can say for now is Whhoooo HHoooo!!! I have been wanting something like this for several years now and somehow my wife and her family picked up on it! (i think she is ready to see the yellow car run... )

I just ran it for it's 15min break in period and after I shut the moisture drain it took right at 5 min to get to 145psi. seems good to me but I will have to report back after trying some tools out. say for instance the impact wrench to loosen the strut bolts? this thing came with an extra, a little tool kit with a craftsman impact wrench, 3/8 drive air wrench and what looks like a rivit gun... maybe it's a drill, not sure yet...


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #138, 12-11-2004 10:30 PM
      When we talked last time on the phone I told you about the helping from the local dealership, he told me about a different mount. Its a trans. transforcase large rubber mount for a 88 to 97 Chevy fullsize 4X4 5.7L, I looked and the price is low $20's and it loked very solid.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #139, 12-12-2004 12:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

When we talked last time on the phone I told you about the helping from the local dealership, he told me about a different mount. Its a trans. transforcase large rubber mount for a 88 to 97 Chevy fullsize 4X4 5.7L, I looked and the price is low $20's and it loked very solid.


sounds good. can you post or email a pic? thx

edit: just thinking about the mount. my 81 full size 4x4 has a trans mount that is about 2" wide and about 5" long. is the mount your talking about smaller?

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 12-12-2004).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #140, 12-12-2004 01:36 AM
      Sound close to it?
I looked up a picture of it on Napa's website



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #141, 12-14-2004 05:50 PM
      I picked one up today from Auto Zone, life time warranty $16.99, the part number there was Anchor 2638
It is big enough, but I don't see it being to big to use with a custom mount! And if it hold up to a 350 SBC 4X4 with alot of torq. it should last well with our swap! If not life time warranty!



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #142, 12-14-2004 09:35 PM
      yup that looks like the same one or very close. you could use it as a single mount point for the passinger side of the engine or one on the front and one on the rear, something like I did. It should be plenty strong for either method.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 04-19-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #143, 12-14-2004 09:38 PM
      just a quick update. I noticed after I had tacked the cat converters on that there is a "flow" arrow and wouldn't you know it I got them backwards... so I spent a couple of hours turning them around and welded up most of the seams on the front bank exhaust pipe. more fugly welds...


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #144, 12-17-2004 04:08 AM
      The exhaust is getting closer to the back of the car. Later today the engine goes back under the car to see that all of this will fit ok and to see how the baby mufflers ought to be installed..

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

aaron88 MSG #145, 12-17-2004 03:49 PM
      It doesnt look to me like youre going to have room for a muffler of any kind. You may just as well use the cats only. It wont be that bad if youre into loud exhaust, because that motor sounds so nice. You might want to put off routing the rest of the exhaust until you hear what it sounds like. Personally mine was way too loud, I went with two mufflers and no cat, (passed the meagre emissions testing they have here for hot rods). Im just not sure how youre going to have room for mufflers now, unless you put 270 more worth of bends in.


Aaron

.

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #146, 12-17-2004 05:01 PM
      I was thinking about just using Monza tips on mine, but then again I am not running headers.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #147, 12-17-2004 09:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaron88:

It doesn�t look to me like you�re going to have room for a muffler of any kind. You may just as well use the cats only. It won�t be that bad if you�re into loud exhaust, because that motor sounds so nice. You might want to put off routing the rest of the exhaust until you hear what it sounds like. Personally mine was way too loud, I went with two mufflers and no cat, (passed the meagre emissions testing they have here for hot rod�s). I�m just not sure how you�re going to have room for mufflers now, unless you put 270� more worth of bends in.


Aaron
.



I apologize for not giving enough information... I picked up a couple of baby stainless mufflers from a good friend of mine that builds VW sandrails. He goes to the junkyard every now and again and picks these things up. He sold me two of these for $10 each. They need to be worked on and cleaned up so they look good. I think they will work pretty well but I am not sure until I actually try it. I would rather set up a clamp system for them than to weld them in so I can adjust them up and down at the rear. The good quality clamp system cost around $40 to $50 each so I am not sure what I will end up doing just yet.

These mufflers are 8-5/8" long, 6" wide and 3-1/2" thick. They fit in the exhaust cut-out area just right. I just don't know what kind of tip to put on the end. It only will have around 3" to 5" inches of room for a tip before it starts looking too long. The inlet and outlet of these are 2" OD but if you cut off the pipes where they are welded to the body the inner pipe is 2-1/4" OD. that will require some work but it might be worth it...


[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #148, 12-17-2004 09:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

I was thinking about just using Monza tips on mine, but then again I am not running headers.

are you going to use the stock y-pipe and a cat? I don't know if you need one where you live.



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #149, 12-18-2004 10:26 AM
      I am using the stock exhaust manifilds, and Y pipe. Off the Y pipe I was going to branch it off to each side with out a cat. to each Monza tip with 2 1/2" tubing. Will talked me out of 3", to big. The two upper county here in N.W. Indiana do require vehicles 76 and newer to pass a test, but I have an family memeber thet live just over the county line that I was going to use her address. They don't test so I don't have to put on a cat.
Just what are those mufflers from by the way?



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #150, 12-18-2004 12:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

I am using the stock exhaust manifilds, and Y pipe. Off the Y pipe I was going to branch it off to each side with out a cat. to each Monza tip with 2 1/2" tubing. Will talked me out of 3", to big. The two upper county here in N.W. Indiana do require vehicles 76 and newer to pass a test, but I have an family memeber thet live just over the county line that I was going to use her address. They don't test so I don't have to put on a cat.
Just what are those mufflers from by the way?

we have smog testing here. if i can't talk them into letting my car pass then i will have to register the car at my mother's address.
your car should sound mean with just pipes and tips.
the guy i got these mufflers from could not remember at the time but he thought they were off a BMW or something like that.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #151, 12-18-2004 02:26 PM
      I tryed every thing I cold think of that would alow me to use the stock cat (smog laws) and have some type of muffler. Well the stock location was out for the muff because that is where the cat went. So I looked for realy small muffs, one for each side. But that was ruled out for there was not enough room. The pipe could not be routed throu the frame and clear the susp and brake lines. In the system I used the pipe will be VERRY hot as the cat heats the gasses up to burn anything that did not burn in the engine. After seeing how close the very hot pipes were going to be to the brake lines, tires and plastic bumper I decided to not do the small mufflers. Mine is an 88 and just did not have the room for mufflers that size I started the engine with no system on it at all and it was not loud, so the cat took down the sound even more. I just ran the pipe into a Y after the cat to go to duel res tips. I realy like the sound and is not loud till you realy rev it up. I did use some 3" pipe. I also used 2.5". But all of the 3" pipe I used are exhaust doughnuts. I chose to use 3" for the VERY tight turns for lower restriction and ran 2.5" for the majority of the system. BTW my cat is 3" in and 3" out so I saw no reason to think it would be detramental to use some 3" pipe. I also used 2.5" exhaust doughnuts too. They alow me to make turns so tight that it would be imposable to bend a pipe that far. They realy come in handy.
If I thaught the car was to loud I had a backup plan to customize a set of small muffs to fit. But that would have cost more money so I did not want to go that way.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #152, 12-18-2004 06:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
all of the 3" pipe I used are exhaust doughnuts. I chose to use 3" for the VERY tight turns for lower restriction and ran 2.5" for the majority of the system. I also used 2.5" exhaust doughnuts too. They alow me to make turns so tight that it would be imposable to bend a pipe that far. They realy come in handy.
If I thought the car was to loud I had a backup plan to customize a set of small muffs to fit. But that would have cost more money so I did not want to go that way.

Rickady88GT,

I always thought that exhaust doughnuts were the packing material in the flared joint from the manifolds to the pipe. I am wondering where do I look to see the doughnuts you're using on your system. I saw the picture of yours and the bends where the pipes split to go left and right are almost 90 degrees with little radius. is that from a cut up exhaust doughnut? It sounds like your system is working pretty well. I thought I would have to go with no muffs until I saw the ones I am using on my brothers sandrail. They are straight through so I don't know if they will lower the sound or not. I guess I will use a bell fitting or something temporary until I know they are worth having there.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #153, 12-18-2004 06:22 PM
      Rickady88GT,

I read your post about using the 90's corvette surge tank for the cooling system. Did you buy yours new or get one used? just wondering what to expect to pay for one. Also, when you use dexcool, do you need to put pellets in the system?
thanks

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 12-18-2004).]

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #154, 12-18-2004 10:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
Also, when you use dexcool, do you need to put pellets in the system?
thanks

YES! It's compatible with all coolants. Very important you get that stuff in there, especially in case the last owner didn't.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #155, 12-18-2004 10:42 PM
      Thanks Ryan


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #156, 12-28-2004 02:52 AM
      Well, I barely avoided disaster! I caught something on fire in the garage while grinding down some welds on the car... If I did not have a fire extinguisher handy it would have been the end of the house and the car... as it is I threw out all of the charred stuff and the only things on the car that were hurt is the drivers door inside and outside panels. they were off the car and near where the fire started. Luckily the garage did not get any damage other than the stink of melting plastic... So instead of getting anything done on the car today I spent the whole day emptying out the garage and cleaning up the mess... well, it could have been worse... good lesson, keep the fire extinguisher handy!

door panel, may be able to save...


used up fire fighting tool...


heat treated golf clubs... The golf bag is a goner

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #157, 12-28-2004 12:56 PM
      I take it you didn't ask for a new set of clubs for Christmas? So other then the door panel did you hurt anything else on the car?
P.S. don't tell your wife, she may try to stop you! haha



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #158, 12-28-2004 05:20 PM
      the outside door panel looks like it just got smoke damage and can be refinished. the inside door panel was on fire and cannot be saved... other than that (and the golf bag meltdown) no other car parts were damaged. the garage smells a bit but should be fine in a few weeks. now that all the combustable materials are in the trash I should be ok to work again. that and I just got back from Home Depot with new fire extinguisher My wife was alarmed but has not stopped me yet... I will try to post some pics tonight of the strut tower that I am working on.

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #159, 12-28-2004 06:38 PM
      Your going to be in trouble, she is going to yell at you! Glad to hear things are no worse.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #160, 12-28-2004 10:23 PM
      she may yell at me but I still have a present for her.

Here is what I was working on when things got hot... I was grinding down some welds for the strut tower mod. The top half of the hole has a piece of 1/8th inch steel across it and the bottom half has 1/16th inch steel. I just hooked up some gas to my welder and am trying the mig setup. I like the clean welds but I still need to get it figured out. as you will see in the first picture the welds are pretty fugly. at least they are penetrating. on the welds that face the engine bay I cheated and ground them down. I did not see any reason to do that on the wheel side.



[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #161, 12-29-2004 01:05 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
Here is what I was working on when things got hot...

Hmm... why are you cutting your strut towers now?

Also, something to consider..... Right where you have the crossover underneath the oil pan... there used to be a brace between the bottom of the oil pan, and the auto trans. IMHO, it's a very integral part of the structure that keeps the engine and transmission from flexing. (Why else would they make it out of 1/8" steel?)



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #162, 12-29-2004 01:49 AM
      He has an 88, he needs the room.



ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #163, 12-29-2004 02:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

He has an 88, he needs the room.

Ahh... wasn't aware you had to do that.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #164, 12-29-2004 03:18 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:


Hmm... why are you cutting your strut towers now?

Also, something to consider..... Right where you have the crossover underneath the oil pan... there used to be a brace between the bottom of the oil pan, and the auto trans. IMHO, it's a very integral part of the structure that keeps the engine and transmission from flexing. (Why else would they make it out of 1/8" steel?)

I could have moved the trans to the left a about 1/2" to 3/4" of an inch and maybe I would have had enough room. I felt it would be easier to cut the strut tower and use coilover shocks than to risk the problems of needing different length half shafts. I cut into the strut tower earlier this year in May. I am just now getting to the task of finishing it. I still need to finish the passenger side decklid hinge support then most of the spaceframe work will be done. I squished the exhaust going under the pan in hopes of being able to use an engine to trans support there. I can't see how it will support the trans from flexing very well since it will be alot longer than the original support for the 4T80 but it won't hurt to make one up anyway. I'll use either 1/8" or 1/4" steel but no thinner than that.



Rickady88GT (rjkmfam@sbcglobal.net) MSG #165, 12-29-2004 02:15 PM
      I got the tank for about $10 used.
I used two 90* sections of 2.5 of exhaust doghnuts for the duel exhaust system. The sections are trimed and welded back to back to form a smooth flowing "T" but it is more like a "Y" than a T. The inlet to the "Y" is 3" the two out lets are 2.5.

It is kina hard to see but it is not a "T" I never got any close ups of it.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 12-29-2004).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #166, 12-29-2004 06:32 PM
      Thanks Rickady88GT,

I will look around for the tank as I am nearing the point of working on the cooling system. That Y must have been fun to make.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #167, 12-31-2004 08:54 PM
      HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #168, 01-15-2005 01:14 AM
      i borrowed Ryan's idea and got a DIY WBO2 kit from Tech-Edge. the kit and sensor came to around $215. I spent most of the day on it but I will be going out of town again Saturday and Sunday. I will need to spend another whole day at least to finish it.

just a bag of parts earlier today...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #169, 01-15-2005 12:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

i borrowed Ryan's idea and got a DIY WBO2 kit from Tech-Edge. the kit and sensor came to around $215.

Don't forget to measure those resistors... Don't trust the markings on the tape



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #170, 01-16-2005 04:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:

Don't forget to measure those resistors... Don't trust the markings on the tape

thanks for the heads up... I had read your thread on it and ended up triple checking all the values... I have a couple of questions though...

1. where did you mount the thermistor? (is it mounted on the pcb or somewhere else?)
2. for the NTK jumper (on for LSU) the holes in the pcb are too small for the jumper prongs to fit into. did you use something else?

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 04-19-2005).]

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #171, 01-16-2005 08:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
thanks for the heads up... I had read your thread on it and ended up triple checking all the values... I have a couple of questions though...

1. there did you mount the thermistor? (is it mounted on the pcb or somewhere else?)
2. for the NTK jumper (on for LSU) the holes in the pcb are too small for the jumper prongs to fit into. did you use something else?

The thermistor is mounted near an IC, I think on the opposite end of the board as the o2 connector. It wasn't labled on mine, I think it just had like a little circle or something. It's just "2 oddly placed pads" you'll have left over

I just soldered a resistor leg into the ntk jumper. I don't plan on switching sensors any time soon... If I have to, I'll just cut it.

http://wbo2.com/2a0/const/r4comp.jpg
In that image, you can see the thermistor inbetween the far left LMC6484 and 74HC4052.

Also note that soldering the test points is harder than it's really worth. With nothing soldered in the "holes", a test probe easily fits without sliding around like you would have trying to hold it onto a test point pin.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #172, 01-17-2005 12:36 AM
      thanks Ryan,

I can see where the thermistor goes now.

 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:
Also note that soldering the test points is harder than it's really worth. With nothing soldered in the "holes", a test probe easily fits without sliding around like you would have trying to hold it onto a test point pin.

yup, it was a pita getting those pins in straight! it's already done though.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #173, 01-17-2005 05:47 PM
      happiness...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #174, 01-17-2005 10:11 PM
      But the _real_ question... does it work?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #175, 01-18-2005 02:31 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:

But the _real_ question... does it work?

lol, so right! I don't know if it works or not. smoke testing date is still not determined...




GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #176, 01-19-2005 11:34 AM
      All this is to get the tach to work?



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #177, 01-19-2005 02:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

All this is to get the tach to work?



this wideband o2 senser is supposed to take all the guess-work out of setting up the air/fuel tables in the computer. instead of telling it what injector pulse width you want at a given throttle position, manifold pressure, tempature, etc. you now tell the computer what air/fuel ratio you want it to try to achieve at the above condtitions. and you can ask it to run rich or lean of 14.7. the o2 sensor tells the computer what air/fuel ratio it is sensing and the computer changes the injector pulse width towards the target air/fuel ratio. well, I think that is what it is supposed to do. Ryan can tell you since his is working already...

this is the finished product:

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #178, 01-19-2005 07:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
this wideband o2 senser is supposed to take all the guess-work out of setting up the air/fuel tables in the computer. instead of telling it what injector pulse width you want at a given throttle position, manifold pressure, tempature, etc. you now tell the computer what air/fuel ratio you want it to try to achieve at the above condtitions. and you can ask it to run rich or lean of 14.7. the o2 sensor tells the computer what air/fuel ratio it is sensing and the computer changes the injector pulse width towards the target air/fuel ratio. well, I think that is what it is supposed to do. Ryan can tell you since his is working already...

Kinda/sorta/notreally...

A "regular" narrow band O2 sensor only tells you IF the mixture is EXACTLY 14.7:1. If it's not, it'll scream "rich!" or "lean!". Problem is, when you want to run at 12.6-12.8:1 for the most power at wide-open, (some late models have shown that even 13.2:1 can get even more power, and better fuel economy) you don't know really where that is. It can only say, "well, it's richer than 14.7:1". Wideband tells you exactly what the ratio is. This means that you can easily dial in the whole fuel map without guessing anything... With a narrow band sensor, 0.8 volts could mean 12.0:1 OR 14.0:1... one of these will melt your pistons, the other won't. On top of that, if you run boost or nitrous, wideband is the only way to go. It only takes one run to lean out too much, then "it don't go". Plus it does what you said above, when in closed loop mode, it tracks the 14.7:1 stoichiometric ratio, and adds/subracts fuel as necessary... at least when you plug it into an ECM/computer that is.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #179, 01-19-2005 08:12 PM
      Thanks Ryan!


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #180, 01-27-2005 05:17 PM
      finally back to playing with the car. just wanted to post this little mod to the cats that Ryan sold me. I would think that most cats are made like this but I don't really have any idea. but just in case...
the pipe extensions that are welded on the ends of the cat to clamp or weld the cat onto your exhaust system may stick into the cat cavity a little bit. if it does like these do I would imagine that would cause an airflow restriction. so if you have a dremel tool with a cut off bit handy you can remove the part that sticks inside as shown here. you will have to cut the pipe extension off of the cat to get to this part. I needed the bends to start right at the ends of the cat so I cut mine off for that reason and then saw this "problem". if your looking to get all of the unnecessary restrictions removed and still have to use a cat this may help.

cat with pipe extension cut off outside of cat but still sticking into the cat about 3/4" or so.


cat after mod. I left a little bit of the pipe (approx 1/4") for strength and more metal to weld to.


here is the piece that was sticking into the cat.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #181, 01-28-2005 09:16 PM
      the engine needed to go back into the car to figure out how to set up a flexible joint between the exhaust and the frame mounted mufflers. also a good time to try out Rodney's dual strut decklid support system. it looks and works great.

i decided to remove the decklid limit cable on the passenger side after seeing how well the gas struts work.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #182, 02-02-2005 12:01 PM
      I see your oil add cap on the valve cover is really stuck in the back as mine will be, have you desided how your going to add oil? Also are you able to get to the oil dip stick?



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #183, 02-02-2005 01:09 PM
      I plan on putting a oil fill cap on the rear cam cover near the drivers side of the engine. I think a saw a picture of this on the chrfab website. It probably was the push in style of oil cap like I used to have on my 72 Vega. Not the greatest thing but it should be better than trying to get oil in near the firewall. I got an oil dipstick off a later model N* that fits in the hole and I have been bending it a little here and there to have it accessable near the water pump. I just need to get a clamp to hold it into place. I also need to verify that it gives an accurate reading.


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #184, 02-02-2005 01:17 PM
      I was thinking about doing that but I was worried about the curve or angle taking away from the depth it would reach int the oil pan?



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #185, 02-02-2005 01:33 PM
      someday when i get a chance to clean and inspect the engine I will then fill it with oil and let you know if this oil dipstick i am using reads right. as of now I don't have any idea if it will be good or not...


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #186, 02-05-2005 08:54 PM
      GSXRBOBBY, here is the exhaust tube with the ball and socket ends. I hope to use these springs to hold the joint together. if i do use this setup i will weld on anchors for the spings.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #187, 02-07-2005 11:28 AM
      I was looking at maybe using this to help with flex if needed. I think that setup will leak alot more then you think its going to?
http://motors.search.ebay.com/flex_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQfrppZ25QQfromZR10QQsacatZ-1QQcatrefZC6QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsadisZ200QQfposZ46383QQsellerZ1QQsassZperformance-curveQQfsopZ 1QQfsooZ1QQcoactionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #188, 02-07-2005 01:55 PM
      that's the flex joint i was told to stay away from. that's why the delima... next time I need to do a better job of engineering...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 02-08-2005).]

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #189, 02-07-2005 05:18 PM
      There's going to be a next time???

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #190, 02-08-2005 12:54 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:

There's going to be a next time???

not if my wife has anything to say about it




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #191, 02-11-2005 06:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:

But the _real_ question... does it work?


Ryan, does this look right? I just hooked it up to my car battery and it seems to work ok. I have only run the calibration, it did not respond to "trace" correctly until I clicked on "last" then it worked ok and I could tweak it. I still need to check all of the output voltages etc... I don't have a clue on how to use it yet. that's next.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #192, 02-11-2005 06:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
Ryan, does this look right? I just hooked it up to my car battery and it seems to work ok. I have only run the calibration, it did not respond to "trace" correctly until I clicked on "last" then it worked ok and I could tweak it. I still need to check all of the output voltages etc... I don't have a clue on how to use it yet. that's next.

I don't remember... IIRC, mine was spitting out lots of numbers when I was calibrating it...... But then, the problem is mine both worked and didn't work, so I don't remember if "spitting out numbers" was a good thing or not. Are you positive it's on COM 5? That sounds suspiciously high..... like for an internal modem or something. I would think it would be 1 or 2.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #193, 02-11-2005 07:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:
Are you positive it's on COM 5? That sounds suspiciously high..... like for an internal modem or something. I would think it would be 1 or 2.

i am using a USB to serial adaptor and i am guessing that it set the port to com 5. I was talking to the wb02 with no problems other than the inital garbage it spit out until i hit "last". then it spit out what looked like a small amount of memory data in hex. after i got the reading to 8192 and 0, i hit "update" and that is when i took the screen shot. i take it there is several more hours of checking that it is putting out the right voltages before hooking it up? thx for the responses.



ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #194, 02-11-2005 09:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
i am using a USB to serial adaptor and i am guessing that it set the port to com 5. I was talking to the wb02 with no problems other than the inital garbage it spit out until i hit "last". then it spit out what looked like a small amount of memory data in hex. after i got the reading to 8192 and 0, i hit "update" and that is when i took the screen shot. i take it there is several more hours of checking that it is putting out the right voltages before hooking it up? thx for the responses.

Well that would do it then. Sounds like you're good to go then. I'd just check the test point voltages to make sure they're within spec, and go from there. Sounds like it works though.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #195, 02-27-2005 05:18 AM
      here's a couple of pics to show what's been going on lately. the first two are of the adaptor for the fourth bell-housing bolt that does not line up. I extended this to a bolt hole in the diff case to help hold things together. it will also serve as an exhaust brace. (note: the correct length bolts still need to be purchased.) the third pic is of the lower exhaust brace. The fourth pic is of the general exhaust view. there are still a couple more welds that need to be ground down and brackets added for the ball joints. after that is done the cats are coming off and the whole system is going to get jet-hot coated.







[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #196, 03-15-2005 11:30 AM
      ????

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #197, 03-15-2005 12:50 PM
      lol! i wondered when you would ask...

i made a little progress on the number 3 and 4 engine mounts. there just shock end bushings attached to the head and 1.5" square tubing to the cradle. I'm in Denver now so pics will be in a couple of days. after those are complete then i will take all the plugs out of the engine and make sure there is no rust in the cylinders. wheeeee!

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 03-24-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #198, 03-24-2005 07:41 AM
      since the dodge truck motor mounts have been torn apart by others I decided to go a different route with the middle motor mounts on my cradle.

this was the original idea.


this is plan "B". the dodge truck mount was removed in favor of a shock ring to limit the travel of the engine. I am hoping that this will help keep the other four mounts from tearing apart. there will be one of these at the rear middle of the engine also. as usual the hardware shown is temporary...


[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #199, 03-24-2005 10:52 AM
     

What's wrong with this type of joint? Or this one in particular? This is the style that Darth recommends for his 3800 swaps. I was just going to piuck one up, so I'd like to hear about any issues.

TIA,
Bob


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #200, 03-24-2005 11:22 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
this is plan "B". the dodge truck mount was removed in favor of a shock ring to limit the travel of the engine. I am hoping that this will help keep the other four mounts from tearing apart. there will be one of these at the rear middle of the engine also. as usual the hardware shown is temporary...

I'd whip up a plate to tie that into other surrounding bolt holes if I were you. Not sure I'd want the whole engine pulling on basically one hole...

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #201, 03-24-2005 05:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

What's wrong with this type of joint? Or this one in particular? This is the style that Darth recommends for his 3800 swaps. I was just going to piuck one up, so I'd like to hear about any issues.

TIA,
Bob


that was the original plan but when i went to buy them from "SPD performance" they told me they stopped selling them because of too many failures. i started asking around and that seemed to be the general concensus. so the "buick ball joint" was suggested and i am going to try it but it is purely an experiment. i have no expectations at this time. at least the leaks will be near the end of the exhaust and if i can't hear them it will be ok. there will be protection around the area for heat if needed.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #202, 03-24-2005 06:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
I'd whip up a plate to tie that into other surrounding bolt holes if I were you. Not sure I'd want the whole engine pulling on basically one hole...

i agree Will, i tried to think of a way to spread out the load using a plate to cover both bolts in each head but i don't think it's feasable the way i have set up the exhaust. to get much benefit the plate would be big and bulky. so i decided to put one of these mounts on the front, one on the rear and one from the forward crossmember to the block skirt. (pics of those as i finish them) i am hoping that spreading the load between all three will reduce the chance of failure.



RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #203, 03-24-2005 08:22 PM
      Thanx for the heads-up Snoop...I'll look further into Darth's solution. My application should have very little movement, so it may work.

+'s abound

Bob

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #204, 03-25-2005 08:06 AM
      RCR, thanks for the +'s and back atcha. i expect my setup is going to move about .5" to .75 near the rear of the car. that was too much for me to trust the bellows.


ok, here are the other two mounts. the first two pics are of the rear mount. the next three are of the lower middle mount. I hope that adds up to over-kill. there are seven mounts total.









[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #205, 03-25-2005 12:55 PM
      Gonna put a nice moment on the crossmember. It's prolly fine, though.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #206, 03-27-2005 04:10 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Gonna put a nice moment on the crossmember. It's prolly fine, though.


I hope it does ok. it would be nice to have a little video cam back there to watch how much twist and flex is going on...

after getting those last mounts welded up the engine went back into the car just to make sure it would fit. it did but not by much in the front. then the engine came back out and all the bolt on stuff was removed for cleaning and painting.

next, the oil filter adaptor was mounted. this engine did not come with an oil cooler adaptor so I will try it without.

the rear cover was removed and a hole was carefully cut for a cheap $2.49 press in oil cap.





then the spec flywheel was bolted on along with the starter.





it turns over nicely. the compression check is next...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #207, 04-20-2005 02:57 AM
      big sigh. number 8 cyl is flat. that and a very noticable amount of oil/sludge build up on the exhaust valve stems leads me to believe that the engine is a 7 cylinder... oh well, looking on the bright side, I will be looking for a good 4.6 to put in the car instead.

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #208, 04-20-2005 12:43 PM
      Wow, Charlie that really suck, so sorry to hear that!!! To bad you can't go back to the guy and complain. I guess you now know why they sold it. I can still get them Northstar motors here in Indiana complete with motor, PCM, wiring harness, alternator,AC compressor. It maybe to much for shipping all that way and its a bit of a drive. Unless you can't find one for under $1100.00. Let me know if you need it?



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #209, 04-20-2005 06:52 PM
      Thanks for the offer Bobby,

I'll have to see what I can do. I told my wife about it and her first words were something to the effect of getting the money back for this engine. I had to explain that the guy sold it as is. He implied that he thought it was a good engine but I knew that I was taking a risk. I just did not know until later when I was doing my homework on the Northstars that they don't work on them, they just replace them. That's why there are many used warranty engines around and very few parts available. The second thing she said is that we don't have enough money to buy a another one right now. Well, I have to admit she is right about that. We just got back from vacation and will be paying that off for awhile. So, unless I find someone willing to part with an engine for really cheap this project is on hold until I can save up a grand or two.

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #210, 04-20-2005 07:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

big sigh. number 8 cyl is flat. that and a very noticable amount of oil/sludge build up on the exhaust valve stems leads me to believe that the engine is a 7 cylinder... oh well, looking on the bright side, I will be looking for a good 4.6 to put in the car instead.

aww man.... well the good news is there's a LOT of them on ebay, I just checked! Couple of them are going for cheap! I'll PM you the links if you want...

heh... now I see why they're cheap - they're all rebuilders..... ahh well. btw - I got my engine for $800 on ebay from a salvage yard, runs like new, with 67k on it. Had it shipped in from las vegas... Deals are out there, you just have to be quick on your feet with cash in hand.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 04-20-2005).]

dohcfiend (rhavasi@hotmail.com) MSG #211, 04-20-2005 07:32 PM
      very nice. i think this is the 1st 4.0 i have seen on here. didn't they use these motor in irl? get u some indy cams also i believe alot of the 4.0 parts intercgange with the 4.6.

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #212, 04-20-2005 08:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

big sigh. number 8 cyl is flat. that and a very noticable amount of oil/sludge build up on the exhaust valve stems leads me to believe that the engine is a 7 cylinder... oh well, looking on the bright side, I will be looking for a good 4.6 to put in the car instead.

Doing a valve job on a 32V engine is an absolute WHORE of a job, but if you think it's valves you could do that...
And toss in a set of CHRF springs for a little insurance against the 3-2 upshift.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-20-2005).]

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #213, 04-20-2005 10:50 PM
      http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/051161.html

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #214, 04-21-2005 02:11 AM
      Thanks Ryan,

I looked at ebay and will continue to do so. I even asked Alan at chrfab if he had any used 4.6's for sale and he did not. I did send Ronnie a PM but I doubt if he would be willing to sell his engines for the money I have right now. I will have to save up for several months to even get close.

Thanks dohcfiend,

As it turns out the IRL engines don't have any interchangable parts with the regular 4.0L N*. Your right about some of the parts fitting on the 4.6L N*. That is why I am going to look for a 4.6 so that I will get more power and not have to change any of the fabrication done so far.

Hi Will,

I told Alan that if he could sell me a used engine I would have him put the springs and retainers in but I guess all of his used engines are apart for a full rebuild. I am pretty sure that my #8 cyl has blow by because both of the valve stems have alot of oil/carbon on them. It was able to pump up to 70psi but then you could here a hiss every time the compression stroke came around. If it where only one oily valve stem I would think it might be a leaky valve. So I am thinking it is the bottom end. If it were a 4.6 I would consider rebuilding it.



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #215, 04-21-2005 09:15 AM
      It will be no loss for you to at least pull the head off and see what you can see.

Russ544 MSG #216, 04-21-2005 10:01 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

It was able to pump up to 70psi but then you could here a hiss every time the compression stroke came around. If it where only one oily valve stem I would think it might be a leaky valve. So I am thinking it is the bottom end. If it were a 4.6 I would consider rebuilding it.

Can you tell where the "hiss" is coming from? If it seems to come from the throttle body it's an intake valveproblem. if the hiss comes from the exaust manifold it's an exaust valve. If you can't tell, it could also be a head gasket that has blown out the side (but unlikely).
I seriously doubt that it's a ring seal problem, but if you pour a tablespoon of oil onto the offending cylinder and do another comp test you'll know. if the compression goes up with the oil in there you have a ring problem. if the comp number stays about the same you have a valve problem (or a hole in a piston perhaps).

The valve may just have some carbon deposits holding a valve open a bit. that can happen from an engine sitting for a wile. (moisture swells and loosens the carbon in the combustion chamber). if that's the case it may be curable without pulling the head.

don't give up on it just yet,
Russ


ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #217, 04-21-2005 12:12 PM
      Pull the head off or get a boroscope into the spark plug hole.. you may find something like this:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20040223-1-031777.html

.....or...... you may just find a chunk of carbon holding open a valve. ....or..... stick a screwdriver in there and see if you can feel the piston



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #218, 04-21-2005 03:37 PM
      Ryan,
that looked serious! not even core material...

the reason i suspect that the cylinder is bad and not the head is that all the other exhaust valve stems are clean and have a uniform brown tint to them. both #8 cylinder exhaust valve stems are equally covered with a thick coating of oil/carbon which if nothing else indicates to me that this engine was removed for smoking out the pipe and possibly using oil. you are right however in that there is enough carbon gunk that it could be holding the valve open. my main concern is why all the oil residue? what i will do to see if it helps is to get a static compression checker and try to determine where the problem is. i wish i had access to a boroscope. Will, i may take the head off but then i would have to timesert the block and to be honest i can't see spending the time or money on this engine when the 4.6's are much more available and a stronger running engine. can you tell me about how much you had to spend on a head gasket and timeserts? also how difficult was setting the cam gear alignment? did you need special tools?

Russ544,

to be honest i could not tell where the hiss was comming from. there is no intake or exhaust on the engine right now so I will try it again and see if i can figure that one out. this really does look like a low time engine so i am wondering if there is any chance this one cylinder would improve over time... gotta find a boroscope somewhere...

thanks for the support guys.



THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #219, 04-21-2005 04:03 PM
      Good luck!


JG


THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #220, 04-21-2005 04:06 PM
      cptsnoopy-How big are the pipes that you are using?
3" 2.5"?

OD or ID?

Thanks!
JG


ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #221, 04-21-2005 04:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
gotta find a boroscope somewhere...

"Doc, I know this is gonna sound strange, but I'd like to get my colonoscopy done in my car...... and if it's not too much trouble.............."

Maybe one of your valve seals just failed catastrophically?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #222, 04-21-2005 04:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by THE BEAST:

cptsnoopy-How big are the pipes that you are using?
3" 2.5"?

OD or ID?

Thanks!
JG

2.25" OD



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #223, 04-21-2005 04:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:


"Doc, I know this is gonna sound strange, but I'd like to get my colonoscopy done in my car...... and if it's not too much trouble.............."

Maybe one of your valve seals just failed catastrophically?


Hey! that's a great idea!

two reasons i don't think it is the valve seals. one is that both valves for that cyl are coated and the other is that the exhaust valve seals are mostly under positive pressure. i am under the impression that you would not have much oil going from the area of the cams into the exhaust ports even if the seals were bad...

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #224, 04-21-2005 08:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
Will, i may take the head off but then i would have to timesert the block and to be honest i can't see spending the time or money on this engine when the 4.6's are much more available and a stronger running engine. can you tell me about how much you had to spend on a head gasket and timeserts? also how difficult was setting the cam gear alignment? did you need special tools?

You wouldn't necessarily NEED to time sert if the threads in the block are in good shape. When I did mine, I borrowed the tool kit. About $40 worth of inserts does both banks. You'll need new head bolts (because of the coating on the threads), which come with head gaskets from GM for about $50 a side. If you just pull one head, worst case scenario would be $20 worth of inserts and a $50 gasket/bolt set from GM.... @$$uming you could borrow the tool set, which is $300 new from Time...

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #225, 04-22-2005 02:21 AM
      Thanks Will, that sounds alot better than I imagined...


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #226, 04-22-2005 11:10 PM
      Can you guys tell me whether or not it's worth getting a 97deville engine? I am pretty sure it is the viny" model. Also if it is not the "DTS" version its redline is 6500. The guy here wants $700 for the engine/trans and computer. He says the engine has less than 50K miles on it. I am thinking I should wait for the vin"9" version to become available. What are the differences between the two? Thanks.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #227, 04-23-2005 06:24 AM
      these pics are not to great but the first two are of the number 6 cylinder exhaust valve stems. the valves are closed in the first two pictures. these represent the way all of the other exhaust valves look except for the two in the number 8 cylinder. the second two are of the number 8 cylinder exhaust valve stems. the valves are open so you see the clean part that is going in and out of the guide and the rest is covered in oil/carbon gunk.







[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

Russ544 MSG #228, 04-23-2005 10:05 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

The guy here wants $700 for the engine/trans and computer. He says the engine has less than 50K miles on it. I am thinking I should wait for the vin"9" version to become available. What are the differences between the two? Thanks.

20 HP.

So does this mean you're still interested in a solution for the shift cable and slave interference problem with the Isuzu? I'm in the early stages of a VIN 9/Isuzu swap myself and have worked out what I think is a pretty good solution to get around those issues. the fabrication for the parts involved is about 1/2 done, so I should be able to get a pic on here by the end of the weekend if you're interested. I'm using the stock fork, but have clocked it around a few degrees, and reworked the slave mounting bracket to match. For the cables I'm building a pair of bellcranks to re-dirrect them out under the TB.

Russ

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #229, 04-23-2005 12:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
The guy here wants $700 for the engine/trans and computer. He says the engine has less than 50K miles on it.

I would jump on that myself... but then, the engines are scarce and expensive up here. Heck, my engine came from your neck of the woods



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #230, 04-23-2005 04:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


20 HP.

So does this mean you're still interested in a solution for the shift cable and slave interference problem with the Isuzu? I'm in the early stages of a VIN 9/Isuzu swap myself and have worked out what I think is a pretty good solution to get around those issues. the fabrication for the parts involved is about 1/2 done, so I should be able to get a pic on here by the end of the weekend if you're interested. I'm using the stock fork, but have clocked it around a few degrees, and reworked the slave mounting bracket to match. For the cables I'm building a pair of bellcranks to re-dirrect them out under the TB.

Russ


I would be very interested to see what you have come up with. I was thinking of using the VW style pull slave to see if I could avoid the bleeding problems that seems to have plauged these things. also i had considered leaving the shift cables were they are and just angling the air intake hose into the TB. my concern with adding any linkage to the shift system is adding more play to the shifter. my sandrail is a single seat model and it uses a bellcrank plate to get from beside the seat to the front of the trany which is directly behind the seat. it works but it is not nearly as nice as the direct rod that the two and four seat sandrails use.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #231, 04-23-2005 04:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:


I would jump on that myself... but then, the engines are scarce and expensive up here. Heck, my engine came from your neck of the woods


well then, if it is still around on Sunday I will try to go look at it...

do you think the trans and comp are worth a couple hundred on ebay?

Russ544 MSG #232, 04-23-2005 10:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I would be very interested to see what you have come up with. I was thinking of using the VW style pull slave to see if I could avoid the bleeding problems that seems to have plauged these things. also i had considered leaving the shift cables were they are and just angling the air intake hose into the TB. my concern with adding any linkage to the shift system is adding more play to the shifter. my sandrail is a single seat model and it uses a bellcrank plate to get from beside the seat to the front of the trany which is directly behind the seat. it works but it is not nearly as nice as the direct rod that the two and four seat sandrails use.


I agree that excess play in a bellcrank system is a concern. As I build the various brackets and linkage for the shift linkage I'm attempting to minimise free play and flex as much as possible. It's coming out pretty well so far I think. I just need to fabricate the supports to clamp the cables in position, and do a little cosmetic clean up on it, and the bracket will be finished.
I've clocked the clutch fork around and relocated the clutch slave already. As you can see it ends up in a rather unusual position, and of course the slave will need to be removed from it's bracket in order to bleed the system, but I don't see this as a big deal. I use a MitiVac for both brake and clutch bleeding and really haven't had any of the issues with them that other people report.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 04-23-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #233, 04-23-2005 11:44 PM
      Russ,

that looks really good. I am wondering if you are going to leave the MAF on the TB? I don't think i'll need it since i am using the Holley computer. that is where i was going to get the extra room to angle the inlet pipe.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #234, 04-24-2005 12:11 AM
      Ryan,

i called the guy with the deville engine just a few minutes ago and he has already sold it. so in the mean time i am trying to locate a poor man's boroscope to see if i should be removing the head on this aurora. Also I have talked to Ronnie and he is willing to let me check out his engine but someone may offer a better price before i can get to it...


ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #235, 04-24-2005 02:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
Ryan,

i called the guy with the deville engine just a few minutes ago and he has already sold it. so in the mean time i am trying to locate a poor man's boroscope to see if i should be removing the head on this aurora. Also I have talked to Ronnie and he is willing to let me check out his engine but someone may offer a better price before i can get to it...

Blast! I told you to jump on it! My engine ALONE was 800... that didn't include a tranny or shipping

The transmission is not worth much on ebay - I've seen them go for $80-150... Maybe you can borrow/rent the boroscope from a mechanic or gunsmith? Maybe even an HVAC person? Donno.....

Russ544 MSG #236, 04-24-2005 03:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Russ,

that looks really good. I am wondering if you are going to leave the MAF on the TB? I don't think i'll need it since i am using the Holley computer. that is where i was going to get the extra room to angle the inlet pipe.

I plan to use the Commander also, but at this stage, knowing plans can change in mid-stream, I'm making a consious effort to not block or eliminate the future use of any sensors or functions.

RC

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #237, 04-24-2005 07:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


I plan to use the Commander also, but at this stage, knowing plans can change in mid-stream, I'm making a consious effort to not block or eliminate the future use of any sensors or functions.

RC

That sounds like a good idea...



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #238, 04-30-2005 01:42 AM
      Will,

would there be any benefit from using vin-9 heads on the aurora block instead of the stock aurora heads?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #239, 05-01-2005 12:31 AM
      .bumpy.


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #240, 05-01-2005 10:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
Will,

would there be any benefit from using vin-9 heads on the aurora block instead of the stock aurora heads?

Better airflow and better cams.
Larger chambers and lower compression.
Larger chambers and better airflow go hand in hand as the N* heads have less shrouded valves compared to the Aurora heads. This is done to avoid using dome pistons in the Aurora, as the flat top pistons result in a pretty nice combustion space that domes would screw up.


ray b (aarmedbear@bellsouth.net) MSG #241, 05-01-2005 10:34 AM
      $750 picked up or + shiping for a 4.6 N* 300hp obd1
but it is a GOOD takeout that just needs timeserts+ headgasket
this was a picked motor by a head caddy dealers N* guy for his kids car
I got three with the car in a package deal and only need one




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #242, 05-01-2005 04:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Better airflow and better cams.
Larger chambers and lower compression.
Larger chambers and better airflow go hand in hand as the N* heads have less shrouded valves compared to the Aurora heads. This is done to avoid using dome pistons in the Aurora, as the flat top pistons result in a pretty nice combustion space that domes would screw up.

Thanks Will,

I was hoping you would say something like that. Any idea were I can find the difference in volume from the Aurora heads to the Caddy heads? I am wondering how much lower the compression would be. one of the reasons for using the vin-9 heads was to get the better cams without having to buy new ones for the Aurora. The only other issue i would be worried about is if the smaller bore in the Aurora would interfere with the valves on the Caddy head.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #243, 05-01-2005 04:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ray b:

$750 picked up or + shiping for a 4.6 N* 300hp obd1
but it is a GOOD takeout that just needs timeserts+ headgasket
this was a picked motor by a head caddy dealers N* guy for his kids car
I got three with the car in a package deal and only need one

PM sent.




ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #244, 05-01-2005 06:06 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
Thanks Will,

I was hoping you would say something like that. Any idea were I can find the difference in volume from the Aurora heads to the Caddy heads? I am wondering how much lower the compression would be. one of the reasons for using the vin-9 heads was to get the better cams without having to buy new ones for the Aurora. The only other issue i would be worried about is if the smaller bore in the Aurora would interfere with the valves on the Caddy head.

IIRC, the aurora cams have more duration or something else, which is like the "next step" after the 300hp cams in the 4.6 northstar. However, when someone put those cams in their northstar, they ran them for a little while, and switched back due to the lack of low end torque..... But of course, that's in a 4000lb caddy..... I don't know the exact specs on the aurora to compare though. (I like cheap HP)

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #245, 05-01-2005 06:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:


IIRC, the aurora cams have more duration or something else, which is like the "next step" after the 300hp cams in the 4.6 northstar. However, when someone put those cams in their northstar, they ran them for a little while, and switched back due to the lack of low end torque..... But of course, that's in a 4000lb caddy..... I don't know the exact specs on the aurora to compare though. (I like cheap HP)


I really wish I knew enough about cams and N* engines to make an educated choice. I am going to have to rely on the input from you guys to help me out here. If the compression ratio does not fall below 10:1 or at least stays in the ball park, I could see using the vin-9 heads for the better airflow. I was just assuming that the vin-9 cams would provide for more HP and less torque than the Aurora cams would. Of the three engines, isn't the Aurora the only one that has more torque than HP?

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-01-2005).]

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #246, 05-01-2005 06:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
I really wish I knew enough about cams and N* engines to make an educated choice. I am going to have to rely on the input from you guys to help me out here. If the compression ratio does not fall below 10:1 or at least stays in the ball park, I could see using the vin-9 heads for the better airflow. I was just assuming that the vin-9 cams would provide for more HP and less torque than the Aurora cams would. Of the three engines, isn't the Aurora the only one that has more torque than HP?

I'd bet you drop down to about 8:1 with the 4.6 heads. I don't have any specs on either though...

And I apologize - it was the other way around... The VIN 9 has the "best" cams, and the guy with the 4.0 put the 4.6L vin 9 cams in, and changed 'em back...

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10502&page=1&pp=20




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #247, 05-01-2005 08:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:


I'd bet you drop down to about 8:1 with the 4.6 heads. I don't have any specs on either though...

And I apologize - it was the other way around... The VIN 9 has the "best" cams, and the guy with the 4.0 put the 4.6L vin 9 cams in, and changed 'em back...

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10502&page=1&pp=20


Hmmm, good reading there. I don't know if our cars being lighter and with a manual trans would make enough difference to take advantage of the power being so much higher in rpms.

oh well, it won't matter until I get this engine apart and see what is really wrong with it. or... get 4.6 if one becomes available locally.


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #248, 05-01-2005 09:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
Thanks Will,

I was hoping you would say something like that. Any idea were I can find the difference in volume from the Aurora heads to the Caddy heads? I am wondering how much lower the compression would be. one of the reasons for using the vin-9 heads was to get the better cams without having to buy new ones for the Aurora. The only other issue i would be worried about is if the smaller bore in the Aurora would interfere with the valves on the Caddy head.

Oh... forgot... I think that the Caddy's do have larger valves, but don't quote me on that.
Yeah, Aurora cams are the same as LD8 Northstar cams. The L37 cams have more aggressive intakes.
The Shelby Series 1 had L37 cams with the intakes ground 5 degrees advanced.


ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #249, 05-02-2005 01:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
I don't know if our cars being lighter and with a manual trans would make enough difference to take advantage of the power being so much higher in rpms.

It absolutely would! If I could get a 500hp 8,000 rpm screamer for free, I'd have one in a heartbeat

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #250, 05-03-2005 04:28 AM
      ok, i've gotten over the mindset that I should only spend money on a 4.6L. I may still have to but we will take a closer look at this 4.0L before giving up. Russ544 was right about the exhaust valves being held open by carbon deposits. I took the cams off tonight and removed the lifters from number 8. then, with air pressure going into the spark plug hole so we could hear the hiss, we tapped the valves one at a time until the hiss went away. lots of carbon bits came flying out of the exhaust valves when we tapped on them. next, just for the fun of it we will use a differential compression tester to see if the rings on number 8 are about the same as the rest of the cylinders. we are going to try to borrow a ProVision fiberscope from a friend in CA. if we can get a look into the cylinder and find no obvious problems, i will probably just run the engine as is and see if it will seal up over time. if there is an obvious problem showing on the cylinder wall then we will take the head off and see if it can be fixed. the only reason for sticking with this engine is that everything about it looks new. it should last for a long time if the problem is found and fixed.

as for using the vin-9 heads, that does not look like a good idea unless we were planning on using a turbo or super charger. the compression ratio would fall to around 9.3-1 with the bigger chamber. if this engine is fixable then we will look into options for getting more out of it.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #251, 05-04-2005 09:39 AM
     
We had touched upon the flex pipe earlier in this thread. I wanted to mention that I picked up this part from Performance Curve. I figured for the price it was worth checking out and there wasn't anything local to look at. It came today and it looks like a good solid piece. Mine is the 2.5" diameter one. It maintains the diameter all the way thru. The stainless flex portion is a good 1/2" thick. It does not flex much, but there is some give. I'll post pics in a seperate thread once I get the exaust built.

Bob

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #252, 05-04-2005 05:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:
It does not flex much, but there is some give. I'll post pics in a seperate thread once I get the exaust built.

Bob

So it's more for misalignments and not for 90 degree bends?

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #253, 05-04-2005 08:47 PM
     
 
quote
So it's more for misalignments and not for 90 degree bends?

Not sure if you're kidding or not but to answer your question, No, it's not for bends. The flex section allows the exaust and/or engine to move seperately, thus preventing broken welds and such.


ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #254, 05-04-2005 09:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:
Not sure if you're kidding or not but to answer your question, No, it's not for bends. The flex section allows the exaust and/or engine to move seperately, thus preventing broken welds and such.

Well they've got this stuff that looks like giant electrical conduit (in fact, I'm sure that's what it is...), and you can make arcs with it... I used a section of it on my exhaust so I can install and remove it...... Otherwise my exhaust would've been permanent

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #255, 05-05-2005 01:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:


We had touched upon the flex pipe earlier in this thread. I wanted to mention that I picked up this part from Performance Curve. I figured for the price it was worth checking out and there wasn't anything local to look at. It came today and it looks like a good solid piece. Mine is the 2.5" diameter one. It maintains the diameter all the way thru. The stainless flex portion is a good 1/2" thick. It does not flex much, but there is some give. I'll post pics in a seperate thread once I get the exaust built.

Bob

thanks for the update.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #256, 05-05-2005 01:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:


Well they've got this stuff that looks like giant electrical conduit (in fact, I'm sure that's what it is...), and you can make arcs with it... I used a section of it on my exhaust so I can install and remove it...... Otherwise my exhaust would've been permanent

I know what your talking about.

on my car i did not leave much room for a flex joint to take up the amount of movement i expect may occur under rotational loads in both directions. my fix is unlikely to work but it was cheap and i will try it first and if it is worthless then i will try something else.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #257, 05-08-2005 02:04 PM
      well, I tried the differential compression tester and was somewhat surprised at the results. mostly because I don't know what I am doing...

since i had the cams off of the even side I just tested at the bottom of the cylinder on each of those. this was because I did not have a good method of keeping the engine from turning off of top dead center. keeping in mind that I spiked the valves on number 8 but left the rest untouched they came out like this. (input pressure at 80psi)
2) 58
4) 40
6) 40
8) 68

on the odd bank the cams were still installed so I used a position near tdc and stood on the breaker bar while it was under pressure.
1) 66
3) 56
5) 58
7) 70

hmmmm?

still the only cylinder that obviously had an oil problem was number 8. go figure... the ProVision fiberscope should be enroute as I type this so I will peek inside later this week.

in the meantime the body swap starts taking place...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #258, 05-08-2005 03:18 PM
      Body swap???

You're making a regular ol' frankenstein there...

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #259, 05-09-2005 10:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:

Body swap???

You're making a regular ol' frankenstein there...



yup, working on that for sure...

I wanted to share a new tool for removing the roof panel from our cars. It is very simple and made the difference in many man-hours of work or worse yet a busted roof panel. I think this may only happen in a hot dry place like Phoenix but it may be the same all over after 18 years. What I am talking about is the windshield molding that is placed around the sides and top of the windshield. I realized right off that the molding needed to be removed because it seemed to be holding down on the edges of the roof panel. When I tried to remove it the molding just broke into lots and lots of small pieces because it was so dry and brittle. I was able to remove the top part the covers the edges of the windshield and the roof panel but the part that goes down into the slot between the windshield and the roof panel remained stuck in place. I then ran a knife down both sides of the molding in an attempt to remove it. It did help a little bit but I think I did more damage than good because I ended up getting a lot of small chips on the edge of the glass. The glass did not crack but I was just lucky. I gave up on trying to remove the rest of the molding and started working on the roof panel. I removed the headliner and all of the nuts and bolts that go into the roof using good info found here on PFF. I was able to raise the rear of the roof panel about 1/4" but that was all. I started working on the front of the panel. After the windshield wipers and the black plastic trim piece were removed I just had to break loose a couple of spots along the front of the windshield where too much windshield glue/sealant had adhered to the roof panel. I tried lifting the A-pillar body part and it was stuck good. I knew about the butyl rope that was holding it down so I went around it with a putty knife and felt pretty confident that I had cut it through. While I was doing that the putty knife was getting pretty gummed up with the butyl material and I found that the product "GOO GONE" worked like a champ to remove the butyl from the knife. So I had a bright idea and started wetting the putty knife with GOO GONE before stabbing it through the butyl rope. It seemed to help a bit. After cutting the butyl rope I was bummed to find that the A-pillar body part was still stuck firmly to the space frame. It appeared that the same glue/sealant used when putting the windshield in had also glued the roof panel all around the top and sides of the windshield. That is where the new "tool" came in handy. I had used a knife earlier all around the roof panel to separate the panel from the glue/sealant but it was apparent that the panel was also stuck to the glue below it and not just from the side facing the windshield. The tool was fashioned with a small cutting tab to cut under the roof panel and free the glue that it was stuck to. I had spent about 4 or 5 hours trying to free up the A-pillars when I finally made the tool. After making the tool it took about 15 minutes to run it all around the sides and top of the windshield and problem solved. The roof panel was quite easy to lift off after that and no broken or cracked A-pillars.

Here are a couple of pictures:
This is what the tool looked like next to the glass. The little tab was under the edge of the roof panel.


This is how the tool was following along under the edge of the panel.


These are the tools used to make the tool. the hose clamp was the material. the file to sharpen the edges before bending the tab.


GOO GONE, good stuff for removing the butyl residue. plan on using and ruining a lot of rags...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #260, 05-09-2005 11:37 PM
      And the finished result???

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #261, 05-10-2005 12:53 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:

And the finished result???

umm, for the tool or the car? (or both?)

the little tool is clamped in the vise-grips...

I have been removing the butyl rope from the car. it's amazing how you can use a ball of the stuff to help remove what is stuck to the car and leave no residue. pics in awhile when i finally get it off the roof panel also.



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #262, 05-10-2005 01:21 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


umm, for the tool or the car? (or both?)

the little tool is clamped in the vise-grips...

I have been removing the butyl rope from the car. it's amazing how you can use a ball of the stuff to help remove what is stuck to the car and leave no residue. pics in awhile when i finally get it off the roof panel also.

Smarty pants!!!!!



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #263, 05-10-2005 03:33 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:
Smarty pants!!!!!


the sad truth is i really did not know which he meant...


Ok, I just felt like taking a lot of pics tonight. In summary the first pic is of the butyl rope that came off the car. all of it... It is about 3" in diameter.

The next pics just show the areas where the butyl rope was and how nice it came off just using the ball of butyl... Like the blob, just roll it over the stuff you want off a couple of times and it becomes part of the ball.










continued...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #264, 05-10-2005 03:36 AM
      And the roof panel:






This is the roof back on the car to keep the cats out.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #265, 05-10-2005 09:33 AM
      Ahh. I've got a crack in the A-pillar, that's why I asked - to see what exactly came off.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #266, 05-11-2005 06:16 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:

Ahh. I've got a crack in the A-pillar, that's why I asked - to see what exactly came off.

that's a bummer.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #267, 05-11-2005 06:21 AM
      the rear clip is finally off. it took a while but as before the helpful threads here on PFF made it as easy as it could be.



[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #268, 05-12-2005 11:15 AM
      Charlie, it was good to hear from you yesterday. I was thinking about a few things after we talked and I think I am just going to add the oil through the 1/2" small opening hole on the valve cover is where the tube goes in. Its going to take a little longer to add oil that way but there is no cutting or drilling needed then.
Also I found a way to wire in the tech, its off the crank sensers on the side of the block, I will just need to replace the tech chip I think, that way I can use the stock tech. If I remember right its a green or purple wire that gives off the pulse needed?
Did I miss something, whats going on with the red Fiero, is it a parts car?

P.S. the replacement ring will be in the mail today.



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #269, 05-12-2005 03:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:
Charlie, it was good to hear from you yesterday. I was thinking about a few things after we talked and I think I am just going to add the oil through the 1/2" small opening hole on the valve cover is where the tube goes in. Its going to take a little longer to add oil that way but there is no cutting or drilling needed then.

Just preheat the oil and it goes in fine...

 
quote
Also I found a way to wire in the tech, its off the crank sensers on the side of the block, I will just need to replace the tech chip I think, that way I can use the stock tech. If I remember right its a green or purple wire that gives off the pulse needed?

The tach wire should be the middle wire in the three pin coil pack connector that has coil pack power and ground.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #270, 05-12-2005 04:08 PM
      Thanks Will for answering that, I did not have a clue. Hi Bobby, the red 86 GT is a good running car but I like the fastback better than the coupe so the plan is to swap the body over to the 88 along with the electric windows, locks and mirrors. while I am at it I can change dew wipes, clean up the power locks and repair whatever needs it. the yellow coupe body will be going onto the 86 car and i will most likely sell it to get a little more money for the aurora car. (and a lot more room in the garage.) Thanks for all your hard work and help with the brake setup!

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-12-2005).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #271, 06-16-2005 04:38 AM
      I got the fiberscope tonight and took a look into numbers 8 and 6 cylinders. The truth is that I could not see much difference between the two. The number 8 cylinder has more carbon and gunk in it but the bore looks pretty good. There does appear to be one possible area at the 2 oclock position in the bore that has what looks to be vertical lines but very hard to tell with this scope. There does not appear to be a major problem in the part of the bore that can be seen with the piston down. The next step now is to put the engine back together and run it. If it smokes like crazy from the even number bank of cylinders then I will take the bottom end apart.

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #272, 06-16-2005 10:38 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I got the fiberscope tonight and took a look into numbers 8 and 6 cylinders. The truth is that I could not see much difference between the two. The number 8 cylinder has more carbon and gunk in it but the bore looks pretty good. There does appear to be one possible area at the 2 oclock position in the bore that has what looks to be vertical lines but very hard to tell with this scope. There does not appear to be a major problem in the part of the bore that can be seen with the piston down. The next step now is to put the engine back together and run it. If it smokes like crazy from the even number bank of cylinders then I will take the bottom end apart.

Vertical lines aren't a problem unless they're deep.

What I would do is get some of GM's 'top engine cleaner', or if you're cheap, something like 'seafoam', remove all the spark plugs, and toss some in every cylinder, and rotate the crank a bit... Maybe even let it sit all day, and drain it the next morning. Don't forget to change the oil after that, and siphon everything out of the cylinders with a hose. That'll take out most of the carbon. When you've got the engine in your car, a WOT run will clean out the rest of it.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #273, 07-01-2005 01:52 AM
      just so you guys don't think i have been slacking... (ok so I have! )

I figured while I have the body off the 86 I should drop the cradle and install Darrells aluminum bushings. I used a drill to get the front bushings out. I was not very easy but after a little work with a wire brush they look nice and shiny inside. The pics are of the cradle with engine, the rear bushing location and the front one without bushing and the other with. The Aurora engine is back together and waiting for me to finish cleaning up and painting the mounts. However while I have the 86 cradle out I am going to clean the mess and see about replacing the mounts and hoses etc. Oh well, more distraction from the real project.







[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #274, 08-19-2005 01:40 AM
      still working on getting the 86 back together.... having to do the usual, dealing with busted bolts in aluminum...


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #275, 08-20-2005 02:59 PM
      Great thread! Did you ever get the clutch arm reconfigured to clear the water pump housing?

I wear pants (fiero2m6@sbcglobal.net) MSG #276, 08-20-2005 04:28 PM
      I was watching Barret Jackson on speed channel, and a Shelby Series-1 was up on the block and interestingly enough the anouncer guy said that the Series-1 is powered by a supercharged Olds Aurora 4.0 V8. I found this to be really interesting and felt the need to share.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #277, 08-21-2005 08:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:

Great thread! Did you ever get the clutch arm reconfigured to clear the water pump housing?


I have not tried that just yet. at first I was going to cut the original cast arm off and leave only the part that clamps to the trany. Then weld on a piece of 1/4" steel in the correct location for a "pull" style slave. Since then I have learned that welding to the cast metal is iffy at best so I am reconsidering how to fabricate the new arm. so far I am sure that it won't have any bends and that should reduce stress loads to the minimum required to do the job. I'll either make a complete arm that has the part that clamps to the trany or make just the extension and attach it to the original cast clamp with bolts or screws.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #278, 08-21-2005 08:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by I wear pants:

I was watching Barret Jackson on speed channel, and a Shelby Series-1 was up on the block and interestingly enough the anouncer guy said that the Series-1 is powered by a supercharged Olds Aurora 4.0 V8. I found this to be really interesting and felt the need to share.


that sounds very cool. I would love to see that up close!


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #279, 08-21-2005 11:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I have not tried that just yet. at first I was going to cut the original cast arm off and leave only the part that clamps to the trany. Then weld on a piece of 1/4" steel in the correct location for a "pull" style slave. Since then I have learned that welding to the cast metal is iffy at best so I am reconsidering how to fabricate the new arm. so far I am sure that it won't have any bends and that should reduce stress loads to the minimum required to do the job. I'll either make a complete arm that has the part that clamps to the trany or make just the extension and attach it to the original cast clamp with bolts or screws.


cool...I am considering using one in my n* swap and know this will be an issue for me as well if I decide to use the isuzu..I would lean towards designing a new arm rather than trying to rig the stock arm unless it can be done without welding and still maintain its strength. I really like the cruise rpm potential of the isuzu behind the n* especially with these gas prices

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 08-21-2005).]

Russ544 MSG #280, 08-22-2005 12:56 AM
      I'm anxious to see your solutions to the Isuzu hurdle as well. There's plenty of meat in the stock arm to machine the sides flat and drill/bolt on an extension but I'm curious how you'll mount the slave. are you still planning to use the pull slave?
You'd better get a move on ...... I expect to be doing a final install on mine next weekend still no computer to update my build progress pics, but maybe by mid week.

Cheers,
Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #281, 08-22-2005 12:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

I'm anxious to see your solutions to the Isuzu hurdle as well. There's plenty of meat in the stock arm to machine the sides flat and drill/bolt on an extension but I'm curious how you'll mount the slave. are you still planning to use the pull slave?
You'd better get a move on ...... I expect to be doing a final install on mine next weekend still no computer to update my build progress pics, but maybe by mid week.

Cheers,
Russ


I have a lot on the burner right now but I would love to get this thing going. This darn cold I picked up yesterday is not helping much...

I am still planning to use the pull slave. It should be a fairly simple install. To keep the bleeder on the top side the slave body will be attached to the release arm and the slave piston rod will be attached to the trans. the slave will be at an angle and hopefully that will help the bleeding process. with luck the stock flexable tubing will work, if not a small extension will be used. The biggest problem now is that the tranny is buried behind the 88 while i battle getting the 86 engine back in. If I get this broken off thermostat housing bolt out of the intake manifold without destroying something then it should proceed normally again.

I hope you are able to post some of your latest pics soon. your work is very inspiring!


Russ544 MSG #282, 08-22-2005 09:56 PM
      Oooooou summer colds really suck. btdt .
As far as your broken stud: a little heat on the aluminum surounding the stud can really be your friend. get it plennty hot and work the stud back and forth if possible. never try to just force it out in one dirrection.

Cheers,
Russ


ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #283, 08-22-2005 11:33 PM
      You know, I had to look at the first post, and I realized you've been working on this for a year and 4 months now... Are you done yet!?

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #284, 08-23-2005 11:42 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:

You know, I had to look at the first post, and I realized you've been working on this for a year and 4 months now... Are you done yet!?

No hes like me, things have been put on hold....working in the heat sucks ass. But then again if he was out in the garage working on the car in the heat he may have not gotten sick?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #285, 08-23-2005 05:45 PM
      I think I get sick from work. some trips we work all night the first night and by the 3rd day we are back on a morning schedule... I had a trip like that followed two days later by one that started in the day time and then ended with all night flying. It's hard to convince the brain that it is time to sleep when you need it. funny how I seem to get sick after a few of the worst schedules back to back... I had hoped to get this thing running by last December but when I started thinking about using the GT body from the 86 it just threw that all out of whack. Russ, I was given an idea that I plan on trying. I will use my wire-feed welder to tack on an extension to the little bit of bolt that is sticking out. Like a 6" long 5/16" bolt. Then before it gets a chance to cool off too much, try to work it out like you describe. It should be interesting. But, a lot better than trying to drill it out and heli-coil what's left...

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #286, 08-24-2005 06:36 PM
      Well Russ,

It worked great! not a gimmie as I was about to give up.... but on the third bolt I was able to get the broken bolt hot enough to stick and with a little massaging and a lot of PB blaster it came out and left clean threads.





[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

Russ544 MSG #287, 08-24-2005 08:48 PM
      Don't ja' just love it when a plan comes together



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #288, 09-08-2005 03:06 AM
      just a quick update to keep the thread alive...

another bolt snapped when I tried to replace the water pump. that was just over a week ago and with the nice timing cover that PFF member "ditch" sent me the engine is almost ready to put back in the 86. when that is done then I can continue with the body swap... quite a bit got done in the last couple of days and if that continues, I should be working on the 88 in less than a month. the current plan is to finish making the 86 into a yellow coupe and have it drivable. then work on the mechanical part of the 88 until it is running. then finish putting the GT body on.

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #289, 09-08-2005 10:35 AM
      So have you stopped working on the 4.0?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #290, 09-08-2005 01:09 PM
      Hi Ryan,

I have stopped working on the 4.0 only because I wanted to put the 86 GT body on the 88. so I took the body off the 86 and while the body was off I decided to put the aluminum bushings in the cradle. while the engine was out, I thought I would change out the coolant and heater hoses. That last little idea has cost several hundred dollars and is just about finished. when the 86 is back together with the 88 coupe body then I will finish putting the aurora into the 88 and get it running. then finish putting the 86 GT body on. so in summary yes, for a short while...


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #291, 09-23-2005 03:43 PM
      getting closer to getting back on track!

the 86 2.8 started last night and no leaks....yet..

now the body from the 88 starts coming off. must.. be.. careful..

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #292, 11-15-2005 03:35 AM
      finally back at it. the yellow front clip is off. the parts from the 88 are in much better shape than those from the 86GT. I don't suppose anyone knows how to remove the sail panels without breaking something?

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #293, 12-12-2005 01:06 PM
      Hey Snoopy, its been awhile since I have been on here and glad to see your getting back after it. I am still on hold for a while, I heard a razor blade and strong fishing string works when done right?



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #294, 12-13-2005 01:54 PM
      Hey GSXRBOBBY,

How goes it? I have been so busy playing with the wife and another hobby that has crept into my life...

I just need to pull the interior out of the 88 to take the front roof cover off. Then those sail panels...

I will try your suggestions as there is most likely some glue on the forward side.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #295, 12-14-2005 06:00 AM
      I actually got something done this evening

the red roof w/sunroof is now sitting on the 88. whew...

Russ544 MSG #296, 12-14-2005 10:53 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I have been so busy playing with the wife and another hobby that has crept into my life...

Huummmm. that does sound like fun also curious about the "other hobbie".

I just happened to think.. if you need anyhing from my "stash" for your project, my dad will be snowbirding to Scotsdale in a couple of weeks and could perhaps bring it down. let me know.

Russ


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #297, 12-15-2005 02:08 PM
      How did you get them off?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #298, 12-15-2005 02:18 PM
      actually, I have not removed the sail panels yet. The rear notch-back part of the body is still on the 88. I just set the 86 roof panel on the car for now. when I was removing the interior pieces from the 88 I broke some of the trim that runs along the top of the window and down the a-pillars. It appears that the little metal clips held the plastic much better in 88.

after breaking some stuff, I decided to take a rest and do the sail panels when I am not in any hurry. I will need to do some research to find out how they really do come off. I don't want to break these two, they are in pretty good shape. hopefully there is more hope of getting these off in one piece compared to the fastback quarter windows...


Russ544 MSG #299, 12-15-2005 08:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

hopefully there is more hope of getting these off in one piece compared to the fastback quarter windows...

OOOoooooooo. I thought you were asking about gt windows......... notchies I know abbout .
Behind the arrow on the sailpanel is a stud. the nut on that stud is accessed inside the car after the interior trim is out of the way. once the nut is removed lift the sail panel enough for the stud to clear the body, then wile holding it out bump the sail panel towards the rear of the car with the palm of your hand to release the two clips on the rear edge. you'll want to place some tape on the paint berhind the sailpanel to protect it from scratching as the panel comes off.
[thinking] if you meant how to get just the glass off the sail panel without it breaking....................... you can't. it's impossible

hope this helps,
Russ



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #300, 12-16-2005 07:01 AM
      Hey Russ544,

Thanks! That is exactly what I needed. now, no more excuses, I'll get to it asap.
(that is after I get some sleep... )



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #301, 01-05-2006 12:26 AM
      More progress, slow that it is. The rear body of the 88 is off and after cleaning will go onto the 86. Fastners look like the next hurdle...


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #302, 02-10-2006 02:26 AM
      Go big daddy go!!!

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #303, 02-10-2006 08:28 AM
      Hey Bobby!

things are going very slowly but the I got the rear of the 88 on the 86. I need to move the exhaust tips inward about a half inch to center them in the cutouts. I guess I may have to try bending them in as the clamps have recessed the tubes and I doubt if they would stay after being moved a tad. How are things in your neck of the woods?


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #304, 02-10-2006 02:55 PM
      Well the newer place we are at has just a 1 car garage so room is tight, taken the car to a friend new polebarn in the spring. I am about to start doing a few smaller things on it to help pass the time until I go back to work in the spring, "interior stuff".
Other than that just getting ready for the wedding, watching her spend way to much money!

Still flying?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #305, 02-12-2006 06:41 AM
      How are we gonna convince that young lady that the money is better off spent on a Fiero? maybe we ought not try that...

yup, still flying, the future is uncertain but time will tell one way or the other.


Russ544 MSG #306, 02-12-2006 11:11 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

yup, still flying, the future is uncertain but time will tell one way or the other.


Are you doing the Hi flight still? in the words of Glen Volk (a top comp HG pilot): "crossing unlandable terrain makes you a better pilot."


,
Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 02-12-2006).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #307, 02-12-2006 11:51 PM
      I went out to Estrella Sailport about a month ago and got current again. Now I have to do a couple of flights now and again to stay current and not have to fly solo for three laps. I took a couple of friends up for a ride. The lift was marginal as it seems to be this time of year but a couple of 45 minute flights were managed. If your in town and have half a day to spare, let me know so you can play with the other gliders. (I am sure it's not as thrilling as hanging out in the breeze but it is enjoyable. ) As far as work goes, I am just keeping my fingers crossed. I am guessing that there are thousands of other folks out there doing the same about their job in whatever field they may work in. It just seems to be part of the "times".

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 02-12-2006).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #308, 03-06-2006 03:15 AM
      One issue I have found with swapping the bodys is that the exhaust tips are further out on the 86GT compared to the 88 coupe. I ended up loosening up the clamps and wrestling the tips off then cutting 1/2 inch off of the pipe from the muffler on each side of the car. Now the tips fit into the exhaust notches on the 88 coupe bumper pad. back to work.....


ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #309, 03-19-2006 10:40 PM
      Are you done yet?

btw, I wanted to ask you... How much did you pay for your header parts? flanges, bends, etc?

THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #310, 03-19-2006 11:06 PM
      ryan.hess

You have a PM!

JG

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #311, 03-20-2006 01:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:

Are you done yet?

btw, I wanted to ask you... How much did you pay for your header parts? flanges, bends, etc?


Not yet, progress has been very slow getting the body swapped. As soon as the 86 is driving again and out of the garage, I can start painting the motor mount parts and have the exhaust ceramic coated...

I paid $496 for the exhaust parts from SPD, that included shipping.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #312, 05-15-2006 04:05 AM
      I thought I would replace the old windshield while the roof was off. Not too hard to cut the top and side sealant away but there is less room to work with on the bottom. once the windshield is out I can get some butyl rope to install the roof and put this yellow 86 back on the street...

MclarenF1 (poopoomagoo1@hotmail.com) MSG #313, 07-12-2006 12:11 AM
      BUMP!

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #314, 07-18-2006 04:22 PM
      cool! I got bumpped

there has been the usual distractions and the project is waiting on getting the window guy out here to install the new window. (right after I clean the old adhesive off and glue down the top). once that is done and the coupe is out of the garage, the Aurora will be back in for completion. Did anyone mention that it is hot around here? I hear that everyone is getting a taste of what we get for most of the summer. I feel for you all, it ain't great until fall, winter and spring...


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #315, 07-21-2006 07:26 PM
      good new concerning the butyl rope for the roof. The 3/8's inch size for installing windows seems to work fine. I pinched it a little bit to raise it up a tad more than 3/8's. When I set the roof on, I started from the rear and after the bolts all fit in their holes, I pressed on the front of the roof and then down the a-pillars. The a-pillars seem to be plenty secure. The glass guys are coming tomorrow.


MclarenF1 (poopoomagoo1@hotmail.com) MSG #316, 07-21-2006 08:40 PM
      You ever decide on what to do about the Isuzu shift problem?

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #317, 07-21-2006 08:54 PM
      So there is a gap larger than 3/8" between the roof and the panel? I wonder if you can tap into that for airflow....

Russ544 MSG #318, 07-22-2006 12:04 AM
      I was just wondering the other day what ever hapened to you snoop - hot? naaaaa it was only 108 here yesterday and is forcast to drop all the way to 106 tomorrow. kind of like your night-time temps
I still have those heads if you need them. new wife, house being built, and won't have time for projects til winter up here.

Stay cool,
Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #319, 07-22-2006 05:37 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by MclarenF1:

You ever decide on what to do about the Isuzu shift problem?


I think you are talking about the shift cables running through the space where the air intake should be? Or the clutch slave? I have not tackled either but I don't see much problem there. For now the shift cables will stay in their stock location and the air intake will either run just forward of them or around both sides. The clutch slave worked like a champ on the sandrail I used to own, I am hoping for the same success here. I may have to consider the stock master cylinder volume versus the after-market one I was using on the sandrail.

 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:

So there is a gap larger than 3/8" between the roof and the panel? I wonder if you can tap into that for airflow....


The butyl rope that came off of the car looked to be about 5/8's to 3/4" round. I decided to try less instead of more for the first go at it. It seemed to smoosh down to around 1/4" or so. As long as it does not make noise while driving, all is well...

 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

I was just wondering the other day what ever hapened to you snoop - hot? naaaaa it was only 108 here yesterday and is forcast to drop all the way to 106 tomorrow. kind of like your night-time temps
I still have those heads if you need them. new wife, house being built, and won't have time for projects til winter up here.

Stay cool,
Russ


Hi Russ,

I am still here. That danged model helicopter hobby really grabbed me! I'll have to send a pic. I am really embarrassed to admit that the interior pieces that you so thoughtfully gave me were the wrong color. I did not have a light color interior to compair the two and I got it wrong. The good news is that they are going into the 86 and the dark gray ones from the 86 will go into the 88. Thanks again for all the parts! If it looks like the stock heads on this engine are bad, I will see about coming up for a visit. (I just hope I find out this year...) It was only 118 degrees today, with humidity. Thank goodness for the large thunderstorms blowing through, the temps fell to a cool 108. Congrats on your new wife and house, that's a lot of project all on it's own!

charlie





cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #320, 07-22-2006 07:20 PM
      the new windshield looks great! Now I have to screw on the front fenders, hood and other body parts on to make it road-worthy, almost got some new space in the garage...


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #321, 08-16-2006 01:52 AM
      there is a yellow fiero driving around with red doors.. ? ok, the 86 passed emissions today, still needs more work but it is close.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #322, 08-24-2006 09:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

ok bobby, it is a race to see if you or I will get one of these running first!


Game on after I get parts!


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #323, 08-30-2006 10:02 PM
      I checked on gmpartsdirect.com and the aurora stainless fuel inj. rail is $86 and the regulator is $35. They are much lower than when I first checked on them last year so along with 2 sets of inner and outer dew wipes, I ordered the fuel rail and regulator...

I spent all day yesterday changing the door skins on the 86 to the yellow 88 doors. I cleaned off the window tracks and regreased everything. The power windows seem a little smoother and the door locks actually work on the first push of the button. Now I just need to order the trim and molding fastners from the Fiero store and this will actually look like a fiero on the outside. The interior still needs to be finished but now that it is drivable and out of the garage, I can get back to work on the real project. I suppose the title should be changed to aurora 4.0L in a 88 GT...


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #324, 09-12-2006 03:14 PM
      Updates:
The exterior on the 86 is done, whew! I did not spend any time lining up the panels so it could be better but overall it looks great! I used modified plastic door retainers for the sail panel frames. They are not as secure as I would prefer but they are holding on ok and no glue was used. I bought all new dew wipes for the two cars inside and out, it is amazing how different the "fresh" rubber feels compared to what was left on the old ones. The last pic is the new Aurora stainless fuel rail. I bought enough stuff to redo the headliner on the 86 (no sunroof) and after the interior parts are installed along with the dew wipes, it is essentially done and the real project can be finished. (I don't know if anyone sells the windshield cowl but until I get a nice one for the 86, I am saving the only decent one for the 88) I did not remember how much fun it is to zip around in a Fiero until I got back into one! I was going to sell the 86 but now I will have to keep it until the 88 is driving...






[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #325, 09-12-2006 07:14 PM
      ->Nomination for the longest swap ever

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #326, 09-29-2006 11:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:

->Nomination for the longest swap ever


I think I may have him beat?



ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #327, 10-15-2006 05:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

... the idler pulley is a DAYCO brand # 89014 109mm 6 grove pulley.


Mr. Chuck Morris...

I just picked up one of these idler pulleys so I can reroute the belt for AC, and to use the stock tensioner location (so I need a new one anyways). Do you have any more pics of your idler bracketry? The mounting hole on this tensioner is huge! (1/2"?) What did you use for centering? I'll have to go through your long thread, because you might have mentioned this stuff already... but 9 pages! gah!...



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #328, 10-16-2006 11:39 AM
      Hi Ryan,

I will have to see what I did. IIRC, for temporary fitting I just used an extra couple of nuts, the outside diameter was close enough. I will need to get a bushing turned to fit inside the bearing correctly for actuall use.


ryan.hess (ryan.h@excite.com) MSG #329, 10-16-2006 12:24 PM
      You just used one mounting bolt, right? Isn't there another threaded hole in the head to attach to?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #330, 10-16-2006 04:11 PM
      I just need to verify that your talkiing about the uppermost idler that is in place of the power steering pump pulley? If so, I made a bracket to position the pulley so the belt would clear the body of the tensioner and also the alternator mounting/dogbone bracket. There is a bolt hole near the pulley in the forward head but it would cause the belt to rub on the belt tensioner body. I used only one bolt to hold the bracket on along with a retainer plate that slides under a boss on the engine block. It seems like it will work ok but I won't know for sure until I try it out. I also tried to keep the bracket on one part of the engine just in case expansion could be a problem so it is only attached to the block. There are pictures about 1/3rd the way down page two and then a couple more after the bigger pulley and an additional gusset were added to finish it up further down the page.



Russ544 MSG #331, 10-16-2006 04:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Hi Ryan,

I will have to see what I did. IIRC, for temporary fitting I just used an extra couple of nuts, the outside diameter was close enough. I will need to get a bushing turned to fit inside the bearing correctly for actuall use.


send me the dimentions you need and I'll whip one out on my lathe. I'm getting bored at work this time of year

Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #332, 10-17-2006 07:42 PM
      Thanks for the offer Russ! I dug out the pulley and adaptor plate. It looks like I have it spaced out from the plate with a combo of washers and a nut. I have to go to work or I would take it apart and measure up the inner diameter and distance from the plate. Maybe tomorrow night...


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #333, 10-19-2006 02:12 AM
      Hi Russ, here are some pictures of what I have now and a crude drawing of what I hope you can make. Please let me know if that will work for you.

Thanks,
charlie









[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-11-2012).]

Russ544 MSG #334, 10-19-2006 11:44 AM
      I think that can be arranged Charlie. I'm pretty sure I can have it done by the time you'll be needing it

Russ

[20 min later] bushing is done. PM me your mailing address again. I can't find it.

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-19-2006).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #335, 10-19-2006 06:20 PM
      If I could only get anything done in 20 minutes!

Thanks again Russ, pm sent.

charlie



Russ544 MSG #336, 10-19-2006 06:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

If I could only get anything done in 20 minutes!

Thanks again Russ, pm sent.

charlie


LOL No comment

PM returned


THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #337, 11-07-2006 11:28 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

I think that can be arranged Charlie. I'm pretty sure I can have it done by the time you'll be needing it

Russ


LOL I think that I read the sarcasm...



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #338, 11-07-2006 12:11 PM
      Yes, but he did a bang up job on the bushing!

I know I have said this a couple of years in a row... But, If all goes well, the work on the Aurora will resume on the 19th of Nov. The goal for this winter is to at least get it plumbed and wired. Maybe even fired up once. The exhaust will need some more work before it is road worthy. I made all the exhaust mounts solid and I did not consider expansion. I will have to see what kind of soft mounting system I can conjure up to make it work.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #339, 12-15-2006 07:03 PM
      Bump...cause this is a great thread, and now, I have a '97 Aurora 4.0 sitting in my garage.

Bob


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #340, 12-16-2006 04:51 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

Bump...cause this is a great thread, and now, I have a '97 Aurora 4.0 sitting in my garage.

Bob


Hey! That sounds cool... What are you going to put it in?

I just got back from tearing out the wiring from one of the donor cars (86SE) so we can give the rest to the trash man... Once that is done I can get started on the 88 with a clear conscience.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #341, 12-16-2006 07:17 AM
      Kind of a long story, but I traded with my Dad. I get the 4.0 and an 86 GT and he gets my completed 3800SC. The 4.0 is going in my 84.

I've got some crazy ideas on what I want to do. I'm eager to get started, but I have a couple little projects in front of it. There will be a build thread.

Bob


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #342, 12-17-2006 08:19 AM
      I've gone through your thread several times...Did I miss why you switched from solid mounts to rubber?

Bob


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #343, 12-17-2006 03:43 PM
      When I started I wanted to leave the trans in its stock location on stock mounts. The idea being that the soft mounts could help absorb the sharp shocks and improve the life of the trans. If I hard mounted the engine then I would have to hard mount the trans so I decided to try something new and put the engine on soft mounts. When I found that the replacement trans mounts were rather expensive and hard to find, I used (I think darthfiero's idea) the same dodge rubber mounts for the trans. The sad part was after fabbing most of the mounts, a report came back that the dodge mounts pull apart quite easily and they are not such a good idea to use. Instead of starting over, I fabbed up the front and rear dogbone mounts to limit the amount of movement and hopefully keep the dodge mounts from seperating. This was a bandaid fix though. I have never been a fan of solid mounting an engine but enough reports of smooth running and no problems with the solid mounted N* engines have led me to believe it is not a bad idea after all.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #344, 12-17-2006 11:41 PM
      I dug the 88 out of its place under tons of junk in the garage. I did not get much done other than some general cleanup. After looking in the engine compartment I decided to ditch the stock firewall insulating material even though it was in pretty good shape. That way I could get to the battery tray where it is spot welded to the firewall and trim it off. That, followed by a little flat black and it looks ok. Cox.net stopped supporting MS frontpage so I need to learn how to use pip. after that I can start posting pics again...



ok, that was not so bad...


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #345, 12-18-2006 07:30 AM
      Looks black .... Thanx for the info. I'm sure I'm going to use rubber mounts, I'm just not sure how I'm going to go about it yet. I'm thinking 3 trany mounts (4L80) one on either side and one on the end, and two engine mounts. I also really want to use the Aurora suspension and cradle, but it's not going to be easy to connect to the Fiero mounts (but what is??).

Bob

edit: I just noticed you boxed your hinge...Good idea. I was thinking of moving it but I like this idea better.

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 12-18-2006).]

m0sh_man (macantley@suddenlink.net) MSG #346, 02-01-2007 02:58 PM
      since i just got a 4.0L motor and its going to be hooked to a isuzu, im curious to see how your's is coming along with the isuzu 5 speed.

matthew


Icelander (whit@dubhlinn.com) MSG #347, 02-01-2007 05:23 PM
      You could always do what I used to do onmy Chevelle...

A couple links of chain from the bottom plate of the mount to the top plate. If it tears the mount, the chain will restrict it's movement.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #348, 03-07-2007 06:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by m0sh_man:

since i just got a 4.0L motor and its going to be hooked to a isuzu, im curious to see how your's is coming along with the isuzu 5 speed.

matthew



It's still in slow mode. The landscaping and general house repair became top priority. If nothing else gets on the list I will get to work on it again.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #349, 04-13-2007 01:47 AM
      bump to keep out of the archives...

vortecfiero (vortecfiero@hotmail.com) MSG #350, 04-15-2007 10:23 AM
      wow nice build up and doccumentation !



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #351, 04-26-2007 07:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

bump to keep out of the archives...


I have been to busy with work so I made a deal with a company and I am going to ship my car to your house and I am going to have you finish it.....so make some extra time.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #352, 04-27-2007 04:47 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:
so make some extra time.


If extra time could only be bought! Oh, wait, I have not won the lottery yet...

Please, do send your car over, lots of extra parts for me to use!




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #353, 05-04-2007 11:20 PM
      I finally got off my butt and painted some of the motor mount parts. Nothing special but it is a start in the right direction...









[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-04-2007).]

BERKELUSA MSG #354, 05-05-2007 12:52 AM
      A little safety TIP is all.. as I wouldnt want you or anyone to get hurt PERIOD..

Crank up the heat some more on that welder OR turn down the wire speed.. the welds looked rather well until I seen this one below... Your bracket making skills however are EXCELLENT !!!...

GRIND all your corners so theres a notch to fill and kinda stitch the wire back and forth working from the thicker steel over to the thinner stuff.. It's harder to heat up the thick so it needs to melt first THEN be bled over to the thinner stuff faster.. - 90% of welding is the pre-grinding to insure a good connection and a place to pool the blob..

If both metals are the same thickness hit it hard, hot and slow in the corners where you ground. - What you will get is a flat pool IF the welder is set correctly.. live and learn! aw hell just PRACTICE ! - Exhaust was schweeet !

A few questions: Is this a gas mig? whats the amperage? what voltage are you set at? what model welder? Gauge of wire? .023? .035?

If you go with a 220 Volt say Millermatic 251 it's like night vs. day..

[/QUOTE]

Not bustin your chops but this one looks like you were moving too fast or in a rush... OR ran out of gas?

Most of the connection is surface.. not penetration.. (bottom tab with the one bolt in it) Dont be afraid to go slower across the joint.. Just lower your wire speeds.. or get more heat.. try all sorts of levels until you find the sweet spot.. when you do.. WOW !

The twist of that motor would rip it clean off and only a light ring would remain where "some" of it connected..

Been there.. done that ! - Ride safe.. and make it in a Fiero...

PS: Hope you find another engine..??

[This message has been edited by BERKELUSA (edited 05-05-2007).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #355, 05-05-2007 01:55 AM
      Hi BERKALUSA,

Thanks for the tips. I did most of the welding without gas using a Lincoln-110 wire-feed. I switched to gas just about the time the welds you show were done. That was the first side and it obviously did not do well. The other three sides did much better as I put the volts to the highest setting and cranked open the gas. I don't remember the exact settings but I think for most of the 1/4" stuff I was using the highest setting for volts, .35 wire(flux-core, no gas) and a wire feed setting of around 3 to 4. (maybe more speed on the wire feed, I just don't remember). When I went to the gas I started with too low of a gas flow and I also found that it did not penetrate as well. (I think that is common knowledge for those that know how to weld.) I found that with the gas and using solid .23 wire I had to up the wire feed quite a bit also. As you know this welder is not the greatest but if a person really knows how to weld they can make some stuff. (I am not someone that claims to know how to weld... ) We recently purchased a Miller 220volt wire feed welder. It is a much better setup but I cannot remember the model number at the moment. The big problem now is that I have to put it in my truck with help to get it over to my house. (oops, I don't know if the 220 for the dryer will handle the load... got to check that out also)
I played with the new welder at my brothers house on a sandrail and even though it welds better I still need to practice with it more because I was still messing it up some.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #356, 08-01-2007 01:50 AM
      Been a tad too warm lately to do anything on the 88. The HR-6 in my 86 seized up last week so out of 3 running vehicles I only have one with a/c. I ordered a new v-5 compressor along with the other 2 so I will have a/c when this thing gets running. (incentive)

fiero newbe (gwestberry1@hotmail.com) MSG #357, 09-16-2007 08:05 PM
      any updates

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #358, 09-20-2007 07:46 AM
      Snoop...How are you running the coolant lines?

Bob


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #359, 09-30-2007 09:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

Snoop...How are you running the coolant lines?

Bob


That well be the next thing after setting up the clutch. I don't know for sure but I remember reading several threads regarding which hoses go where. I have not figured out what material to use for the hard line just yet. It has cooled off considerably the last week or so and this will allow me to get back to work on it.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #360, 10-01-2007 07:15 PM
      I just grabbed the pass side coolant line off Kyle's (86SE) '86. I'll use a section of that across the crossmember. I also grabbed a mid 90's Grand Am coolant bottle that re-circulates coolant. That'll go on the pass side where the battery used to be. I still need to figure out all the routing. I pulled some images from other posts. I'll throw some pics up here unless you beat me to it...

Keep up the good work.

Bob

PS I think I found a pretty slick way to run the belt. I need to download the pics.



GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #361, 10-19-2007 01:05 AM
      Snoop.....get off your ass!!!



RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #362, 10-21-2007 07:40 AM
      Here's how I did my belt. I wanted to use what I had, and my idler pulley was too small to put on top, so I used the bracket I made to mount the tensioner up high. It doesn't show in the pic, but I backed the mounting bolt with a nut.




And the coolant tube I made for the front of the cradle:


Bob


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #363, 10-31-2007 01:44 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

Snoop.....get off your ass!!!



Tell me about it!

I have been working an extra job on the side to pay bills. We are still matching record temps out here but very soon (usually by Halloween which is in 17 minutes) it cools off nicely... (I hope)

RCR, nice fabbing. Looks simple and effective.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #364, 10-31-2007 11:24 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
RCR, nice fabbing. Looks simple and effective.


Thanx...Simple took me 3 days to come up with. No wonder it's taking me so long to build this car.



Bob


BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #365, 02-04-2008 04:01 AM
      bump, buMP, BUMP!!!

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #366, 03-07-2008 06:30 AM
      Something new and very cool coming down the pike!


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #367, 03-23-2008 02:35 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Something new and very cool coming down the pike!

an ls7? LOL


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #368, 03-23-2008 10:58 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:

an ls7? LOL


Lol, no not that big of a change! One of Russ544's creations. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087315.html
should be here around the middle of next week.


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #369, 03-23-2008 11:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


Lol, no not that big of a change! One of Russ544's creations. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087315.html
should be here around the middle of next week.


I hate you ..j/k ..that's better than an ls7

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 03-23-2008).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #370, 04-20-2008 12:15 AM
      Latest parts:

As mentioned, Russ544 ITB setup.


And, (for Phoenix temps with A/C running) Archie's HD radiator.


To move the battery up front, Archie's fiber-glass battery box.


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #371, 04-20-2008 12:26 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Latest parts:

As mentioned, Russ544 ITB setup.


A


hey ..weren't you supposed to send that to me in trade for a wiring harness?



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #372, 04-20-2008 12:44 AM
      I.... don't..... remember..... for.... sure...... :?

Now that I have it I don't think I can let r go...


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #373, 04-20-2008 01:39 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I.... don't..... remember..... for.... sure...... :?

Now that I have it I don't think I can let r go...

If I had that setting in my living room ..I probably would make love to it or at least build a shrine for it


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #374, 04-23-2008 01:01 AM
      I decided it was time to finish up the sub frame so I welded on a brace to hold up the original piece of the front cross member to the new cross member. I guess I should have looked closer at the old pics or at least had the tranny sitting on the sub frame before welding on the brace. I now appears that it may interfere with the tranny starter mount housing. Next thing, set the trans on there to see how close it is...



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #375, 04-23-2008 02:04 AM
      There was not quite enough clearance between the new brace and the trans case so I will need to remove a little bit of metal.





Russ544 MSG #376, 04-23-2008 02:53 PM
      I forgot... what are you using for trans and engine mounts again?

R


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #377, 04-23-2008 07:56 PM
      Hi Russ,

I am using the old 1/2 ton dodge engine mounts. I don't remember the year but I would not recommend them anyway as there is no safety catch if the rubber separates from either side of the mount. I put three more mounts in place (some what like dog bone mounts) to keep the engine from moving far enough to let the main mounts tear apart. I don't plan on driving this car very hard so I hope it holds together.

charlie



Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #378, 04-23-2008 08:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Hi Russ,

I am using the old 1/2 ton dodge engine mounts. I don't remember the year but I would not recommend them anyway as there is no safety catch if the rubber separates from either side of the mount. I put three more mounts in place (some what like dog bone mounts) to keep the engine from moving far enough to let the main mounts tear apart. I don't plan on driving this car very hard so I hope it holds together.

charlie


Im using them on my swap ..Darth Fiero is confident enough using them that he uses them on customers cars he swaps engines into so I guess I will give them a go...I am concidering drilling through them and putting a bolt and nut for a safety catch



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #379, 04-24-2008 01:30 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:


Im using them on my swap ..Darth Fiero is confident enough using them that he uses them on customers cars he swaps engines into so I guess I will give them a go...I am concidering drilling through them and putting a bolt and nut for a safety catch


I think they will work ok if you don't run at the track. That is were Darth Fiero said that he tore a couple apart on his car. (IIRC)


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #380, 04-24-2008 03:34 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


I think they will work ok if you don't run at the track. That is were Darth Fiero said that he tore a couple apart on his car. (IIRC)


they do make some dodge mounts that have the interlocking setup if you don't already know ..I almost went with them but didn tlike the way the interlocking tabs stuck out the side of the mount. At 2 bucks a pop if I manage to break on I will just try one with a bolt through it and see what happens. I like the low profile of the mount


Russ544 MSG #381, 04-24-2008 10:34 AM
      as long as you use a good dogbone system you'll be fine. I'm using 4 stock type (very soft) Fiero trans mounts to support my assy without issues, but I also have 2 dogbones to limit torque twist.

Russ


buds MSG #382, 04-24-2008 12:46 PM
      Nice too see your back at it....Your build has helped me along the way. Thanks

Mike


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #383, 04-27-2008 05:08 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by buds:

Nice too see your back at it....Your build has helped me along the way. Thanks

Mike


Thank you for the kind words Mike.

charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 04-27-2008).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #384, 04-29-2008 03:46 PM
      A little paint ought to help...



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #385, 05-02-2008 07:09 PM
      First Ace Hardware run for bolts. Only $73 and change this time around.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #386, 05-03-2008 06:31 AM
      Some pics after getting some of the brackets finished and the spec clutch installed.
















cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #387, 05-06-2008 03:23 AM
      Some pictures of the Aurora mounted on the subframe. I need to weld another O2 bung on the rear exhaust. The egr bung will be welded where you see it sitting. I will try to make an exhaust brace from the rear head to the rear exhaust to support the weight of the cat. Then the clutch slave will be setup. After all of that, the water system will get figured out and last will be the electrical.







cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #388, 05-09-2008 01:03 AM
      new transmission output shaft seals installed and a dust cover for the transmission bell housing fabbed out of 1/8th in Aluminum installed. (pita)


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #389, 05-09-2008 01:39 AM
      Love the mounts ..that sucker aint going anywhere I really like the dual purpose skidplate/front-back motor mount shared plate. My pan is about a 1/4 of an inch below the bottom of the frame so I just might have to make something like that to protect it ..that's one big azz alternator ..I'm using a fiero alt for mine so that in case it breaks down away from home..I could actually change it without much trouble ..it looks like you cut off the front dog bone mount ..did it interfere with anything? BTW what AC compressor is that?

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 05-09-2008).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #390, 05-09-2008 01:51 AM
      Thanks Erik,

Your right, the dog bone mount was cut out. I don't remember why right now. The A/C compressor is a new OEM Harrison V-5 to replace the older one that was originally in the car. I just needed to make a mounting setup that kept it real close to the motor so that alternator would fit. The alt is from a mid 90's caddy IIRC.

It looks like I will need to extend the A/C flex lines about an inch or so to connect up correctly. I will be measuring that up shortly.

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #391, 05-15-2008 09:31 PM
      It's time to make the clutch work. I cut the angled part of the clutch arm off and left only the part that mounts to the trans. I plan to use a direct pull so I will need to fab a new arm with no offset that is fixed perpendicular to the clamping bolt on the arm mount. Once I manage to mount it to the cast arm mount I will provide more pictures. The first three pictures are of the clutch arm (the last is showing the little bit of relief that I needed to get the mount on the trans because the N* water log bolt is just a tad too close.) The last picture is the pull type slave that I will use. This is normally used on a VW clutch setup. I will need to swap the bleed valve with the hydraulic fitting to make it so the bleed valve will be the highest point in the system while the hydraulic fitting is nearest the left side of the car.










buds MSG #392, 05-15-2008 10:20 PM
      I just shaved a little off the top of the clutch arm to miss the log....Drove it tuesday for the first time.

As for A/C I had a hydrulic hose company make me new lines....Ditched the connection on the drivers side frame and tapped into the lines right beside the gas tank...Much cleaner looking.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #393, 05-15-2008 10:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by buds:

I just shaved a little off the top of the clutch arm to miss the log....Drove it tuesday for the first time.

As for A/C I had a hydrulic hose company make me new lines....Ditched the connection on the drivers side frame and tapped into the lines right beside the gas tank...Much cleaner looking.


Hi buds,

I think that the getrag clutch arm will clear ok with that mod but the Isuzu apparently needs more work so I just decided to set it up differently. Thanks for the idea concerning the A/C lines. I am going to have a shop make up a new set of lines. I will go with whatever is easier, using the stock connectors on the left side or cutting and running direct like you did.


SpeedWorksAutoTuning (speedworksautotuning@hotmail.com) MSG #394, 05-16-2008 12:25 AM
      good job

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #395, 05-16-2008 03:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by SpeedWorksAutoTuning:

good job


Thank you.


Hi buds,

I noticed you said you drove yours recently, how did it go?



buds MSG #396, 05-16-2008 07:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I noticed you said you drove yours recently, how did it go?


Better then expected. Its actually silly fast, think I stretched my face from the hugh grin I had. Idle hunts a little when coming to a stop but settles down after a few seconds.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #397, 05-16-2008 01:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by buds:


Better then expected. Its actually silly fast, think I stretched my face from the hugh grin I had. Idle hunts a little when coming to a stop but settles down after a few seconds.


Good to hear. I like the idea of silly fast...


buds MSG #398, 05-17-2008 12:37 AM
      A little inspiration

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYCcj7R5Gfo



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #399, 05-17-2008 01:43 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by buds:

A little inspiration

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYCcj7R5Gfo


I like the sound of that!

Here are a couple of pictures showing the progress of the modified clutch arm. The original piece fits (press fit) into the new arm until the keyed hole is 1/2 covered. I still need to grind out the area on the new arm that now covers the hole. Then 3 bolts will go through the little holes you see in both arms and that should hold it together fine. The distance from the center of the keyed hole and the center of the slave bolt was 5" on the original arm, this one turned out to be 4-15/16". It should be close enough. If everything clears at the trans end of the arm, I will make the bracket that will hold the other end of the slave. It will be bolted to the original slave mount on the trans.





Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #400, 05-17-2008 01:57 AM
      love the details ..the devil is in them you know

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #401, 05-20-2008 02:54 AM
      More "details"

I did not have much time so I slapped this together but you get the idea. I put it on the trans before paint and it looks like it will do the job as long as it does not bend or break.







cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #402, 05-29-2008 10:31 PM
      Hopefully this will work. I still need to paint the welded part and cut off the excess threaded rod from the slave. Then I need to find the correct fitting to screw the clutch line into the slave. Anyone have an idea what size and thread pitch the clutch line is?





cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #403, 05-30-2008 10:56 PM
      This is what it will look like ready to run. I bled the system but there is a small leak from the bleeder and inlet fittings on the slave. I will have to remove them and use Teflon tape per the instructions to get a good seal. I was surprised at how little effort is required to disengage the clutch.





Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #404, 05-30-2008 11:28 PM
      damn N* waterlog is a steaming POS ..Chrfab has a electric wp that eliminates that problem

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #405, 05-30-2008 11:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:

damn N* waterlog is a steaming POS ..Chrfab has a electric wp that eliminates that problem


Looks nice but comes at a large price tag. $653.90 plus $18.00 per fitting.

This pull style slave is not that bad if you have a welder handy. If it works out it may help solve the infamous bleeding issues with the stock setups.

I forgot to mention that the fitting on the slave end of the clutch line is on a 6mm hard-line and is M12 x 1.0 with a bubble flare. I ended up using a brake line extension instead of a 90 degree fitting (preferred) because the proper 90 degree fitting is not available. The brake line fabbed by "The Parker Store" cost just under $10.00. A better solution would be to cut off the existing metal braided flex line and putting an American sized flare fitting on the end and then fabbing up a new flex line that would fit into the fitting that comes with the after market slave.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #406, 05-31-2008 11:09 PM
      Good news, it looks like the Teflon tape on the threads works. Now onto the plumbing...

Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #407, 06-01-2008 03:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Good news, it looks like the Teflon tape on the threads works. Now onto the plumbing...


sweet, you may beat me yet ..I still am fabbing up my headers and then its plumbing, and finally the wire harness



RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #408, 06-01-2008 07:39 AM
      I've caught up, too, but I still have a long road ahead: plumb & mount oil cooler/exaust/suspension & axle mods/install hoses and fluids/see if it runs.

Bob

Took a while without PIP, but here's a pic:

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 06-02-2008).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #409, 06-01-2008 12:47 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:

damn N* waterlog is a steaming POS


What on earth makes you say that?



Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #410, 06-01-2008 12:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


What on earth makes you say that?

I have several reasons..one is its prevents one from using the isuzu or muncie without modding either and or the clutch arm, slave mount or the shift cable mounts
Also its a pain in the butt to deal with in the stock caddy for certain repair jobs


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #411, 06-02-2008 03:00 PM
      Isuzus and Muncies (and Getrags for that matter) were never meant to work with the engine. WTF do you expect?

The front manifold on a Fiero V6 is a PITA to deal with too. That doesn't make it a POS because it does what it needs to do.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 06-02-2008).]

Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #412, 06-02-2008 08:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Isuzus and Muncies (and Getrags for that matter) were never meant to work with the engine. WTF do you expect?

The front manifold on a Fiero V6 is a PITA to deal with too. That doesn't make it a POS because it does what it needs to do.




no kidding ..still does not make the waterlog attractive for the swap

PITA POS are one in the same



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #413, 06-02-2008 11:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

I've caught up, too, but I still have a long road ahead: plumb & mount oil cooler/exaust/suspension & axle mods/install hoses and fluids/see if it runs.

Bob


Looks good but kinda busy in there!

Charlie


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #414, 06-02-2008 11:40 PM
      I found the clutch actuation the only real issue with the water-log and I think it really only affects the Isuzu to the point of having to do something completely different to get it working. If I can fit the water lines, clutch slave and air intake tubing in that space I should be ok.

Charlie



RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #415, 06-03-2008 08:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


Looks good but kinda busy in there!

Charlie


Yes, but it does fit.

Bob


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #416, 06-03-2008 01:03 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:
no kidding ..still does not make the waterlog attractive for the swap

PITA POS are one in the same


No, they're not.
It is a PITA because it's difficult to work with, but it is NOT a POS because it does exactly what it was designed to do and does it very well with a high degree of reliability. It is well engineered. Don't blame GM because they didn't design it to go into a car that ceased production 4 years before the engine was introduced, with a transmission that's rated to 1/2 or less of what the engine puts out.


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #417, 06-03-2008 01:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


No, they're not.
It is a PITA because it's difficult to work with, but it is NOT a POS because it does exactly what it was designed to do and does it very well with a high degree of reliability. It is well engineered. Don't blame GM because they didn't design it to go into a car that ceased production 4 years before the engine was introduced, with a transmission that's rated to 1/2 or less of what the engine puts out.

umm yeah, they are I had a POS give me a PITA and it was a crappy experience ..
Ok I'll compromise ..its not a POS for the N* ..it could care a less if a human has to suffer when dealing with it

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 06-03-2008).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #418, 06-04-2008 01:56 AM
      It looks like my routing for the radiator return crossover pipe will work ok. I can't get pip to find the server so pics will have to wait until I have more time to figure out how to use my cox webspace again.

trying ImageShack for temporary use...



[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 06-04-2008).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #419, 06-04-2008 10:10 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:

umm yeah, they are I had a POS give me a PITA and it was a crappy experience ..
Ok I'll compromise ..its not a POS for the N* ..it could care a less if a human has to suffer when dealing with it



It does exactly what it was designed to do.

When your soap slides off the soap tray in your shower, the soap tray is a POS because it doesn't do the one thing it was designed to do: hold soap.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #420, 06-04-2008 09:59 PM
      I decided to work on the fuel tank today and install the high pressure fuel pump. First thing was to check the output of the fuel gauge sender and as usual it was too high. I was able to look up some archived threads on calibrating the sender and was able to get it to show .2 ohms at empty and 96 ohms full. That should be close enough. The tank was pretty badly corroded when I dropped it down a couple of years ago and now it was just dry flaky corrosion crud. I poured a bunch of BB's in the tank and shook it around for several minutes. It is not perfect but it does look much better and usable. I was surprised at how fine the corrosion dust is after knocking it off the tank with the BB's. It went through my new vacuum filter and filled the garage with a coating of dust. Oh well, live and learn. Once I get the rest of the dust and BB's out of the tank, I will install the new pump and close up the tank. After it is installed I can verify the routing of the heater hoses because I am installing the surge tank behind the driver on the left side of the firewall instead of the right side as I had previously planned.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #421, 06-08-2008 02:13 AM
      Got the fuel tank installed yesterday. Today I figured out a way to install the surge tank using the stock mount points on the tank. Seems to work pretty well.







RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #422, 06-08-2008 07:37 AM
      Looking good Charlie. What make is the tank from? I'm going to use one from a Grand Am.



Keep up the good work.

Bob

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 06-08-2008).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #423, 06-08-2008 11:37 AM
      Hi Bob,

Thank you, I think that the tank is from a 96 corvette. (I am pretty sure I got the idea to use this one from Rickady88GT) The one you are using looks like it will work well. I probably would have mine on the passenger side too but the surge and overflow nipples were too close to the electrical connector that is in front of the passenger side strut tower. The plumbing to the tank will go two directions. The small 5/8ths size line (hot water) will go from the rear of the water log, under the head and connect to the stock line on the passenger side just aft of where the harmonic balancer will be. The 3/4 size will run along the firewall next to the crossover pipe and then at the far drivers side by the fuel fill/vent hardlines it will 90 rearwards under the fresh air intake area and then up 180 to the upper 7/8ths nipple of the surge tank. The lower 7/8ths nipple of the surge tank will then go the warm water inlet next to the thermostat housing on the water pump. The actual surge line will come off the stock location of the water log (If I don't need to modify it like Russ544 did) and have a short run to the lower 3/8ths nipple on the surge tank.

charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 07-11-2008).]

Russ544 MSG #424, 06-08-2008 03:00 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

The actual surge line will come off the stock location of the water log (If I don't need to modify it like Russ544 did) and have a short run to the lower 3/8ths nipple on the surge tank.

charlie




There must be another way than what I did, but if so, I couldn't figure it out. you'll need a spot to put a second temp sensor into the water jacket, and the stock N* doesn't provide a convienient one.
The surege tank you (Snoop) used was used on all the C-4 Vetts. They are priced pretty reasonable from GM (Cheeper than what many wrecking yards want for them as a mater a' fact).

Looking good there Snoop !!

Russ544


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #425, 06-09-2008 06:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


There must be another way than what I did, but if so, I couldn't figure it out. you'll need a spot to put a second temp sensor into the water jacket, and the stock N* doesn't provide a convienient one.
The surege tank you (Snoop) used was used on all the C-4 Vetts. They are priced pretty reasonable from GM (Cheeper than what many wrecking yards want for them as a mater a' fact).

Looking good there Snoop !!

Russ544

Thank you Russ. I noticed that your N* has this plug in the water-log also. Is it not suitable for sensing engine water temp?

Charlie


[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 06-11-2008).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #426, 06-10-2008 10:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


There must be another way than what I did, but if so, I couldn't figure it out. you'll need a spot to put a second temp sensor into the water jacket, and the stock N* doesn't provide a convienient one.
The surege tank you (Snoop) used was used on all the C-4 Vetts. They are priced pretty reasonable from GM (Cheeper than what many wrecking yards want for them as a mater a' fact).

Looking good there Snoop !!

Russ544



There is a three wire temp sensor that has both the 5V resistance to dedicated ground and 12V resistance to engine block ground sensors in it. The ECM uses the 5V and the gauge uses the 12V. Use one of those and the gauge and ECM will both see the same temp (whether the gauge reports the right temp is the question...).

However, the overheat idiot light won't work without a separate temp switch.


buds MSG #427, 06-10-2008 12:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
There is a three wire temp sensor that has both the 5V resistance to dedicated ground and 12V resistance to engine block ground sensors in it. The ECM uses the 5V and the gauge uses the 12V. Use one of those and the gauge and ECM will both see the same temp (whether the gauge reports the right temp is the question...).

However, the overheat idiot light won't work without a separate temp switch.



That is what I used Temp sensor from a 1998 Grandprix GTP....Temp guage does climb but I'm uncertain if its accurate.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #428, 06-11-2008 02:26 AM
      Thanks guys, I will keep that in mind.

charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #429, 06-11-2008 02:43 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Thank you Russ. I noticed that your N* has this plug in the water-log also. Is it not suitable for sensing engine water temp?

Charlie






I found the purpose of this plug in the engine book. Used for cleaning out the egr passages in the water-log. No help for water temp sensing...



Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #430, 06-11-2008 03:56 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


I found the purpose of this plug in the engine book. Used for cleaning out the egr passages in the water-log. No help for water temp sensing...


I've seen them so clogged up full of carbon no port access via plug would suffice .it would take removal of the intake manifold


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #431, 06-11-2008 08:35 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I found the purpose of this plug in the engine book. Used for cleaning out the egr passages in the water-log. No help for water temp sensing...



Corvairs had metal temp sensors in their cylinder heads. Maybe one of those could be used in that bung (as long as the EGR is not connected). With the 3 wire temp sensor in the cylinder head, all we need to fully interface with the Fiero chassis is a coolant temp switch, however.


 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:

I've seen them so clogged up full of carbon no port access via plug would suffice .it would take removal of the intake manifold


Intake manifold removal is only required on the early metal box intakes. The later composite manifolds introduce the EGR gasses through a TB spacer. They don't clog NEARLY as much as the early ones do.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #432, 06-11-2008 01:29 PM
      I will either get the 3 wire temp sensor or add a fitting to either the surge line or the hot water outlet line to the heater core for the Fiero temp sensor.

I made a slight error in setting up the egr. I put the egr bung on the forward bank exhaust after the cat which may not be such a "hot" idea.... I am guessing that the higher temp of the exhaust gas plus the different chemistry of the gas may make it unusable for egr purposes.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 06-11-2008).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #433, 06-11-2008 01:54 PM
      After the cat? It ought to be cooler then.

The only requirement on EGR gas is that it be inert.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #434, 06-11-2008 02:56 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

After the cat? It ought to be cooler then.

The only requirement on EGR gas is that it be inert.


I don't know much about how the cat works but I am under the impression that the cat actually increases the exhaust temp through the chemistry reaction taking place. The warnings in the car manuals about not parking in an area where vegetation or other combustibles are present near the cat gave me this idea.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #435, 06-13-2008 05:12 AM
      I think this will work for the Fiero temp gauge sender. This is the hot water outlet from the water-log to the heater.







RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #436, 06-23-2008 07:38 PM
      Hi Charlie,
What do you plan on using for a throttle cable? For some reason I thought the '84 cable (4 cyl) would work, but I'm finding it's not that close. FWIW, it worked with the 3800SC. Justr one more piece to the puzzle.

Bob


buds MSG #437, 06-23-2008 09:16 PM
      I used an '88 4 Cyl cable with slight mods to the bracket on the throttle body. I might have a pic.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #438, 07-02-2008 05:31 PM
      Sorry it took so long to reply. I have not hooked up or looked at how my throttle cable will work. My guess is that Russ already has it set up so I can just attach my throttle cable (88 4 cylinder) and be good to go.

I did get a little more of the plumbing done. The 3/4" heater return line is run from under the belly pan of the car up and along the fire wall and connected to the upper 7/8" port of the surge tank. I just need to get more hose clamps and tighten it all up. I don't quite like the way I ran the 5/8" brass fittings for the heater line coming off the engine so I will get some more aluminum tubing and bend up another piece. I hope to use a rubber 90 on the passenger side near the frame rail to complete the connection. It will need enough room to flex for engine movement. Then the 3/8" surge line to the upper part of the surge tank (should be a fairly short run) needs to be connected and I will then be left with the wiring to do.

charlie



Russ544 MSG #439, 07-02-2008 05:56 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Sorry it took so long to reply. I have not hooked up or looked at how my throttle cable will work. My guess is that Russ already has it set up so I can just attach my throttle cable (88 4 cylinder) and be good to go.



yup. the 88 4 cyl cable should clip right into place like it was made for it. errrr.. it was actually

Russ



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #440, 07-03-2008 12:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


yup. the 88 4 cyl cable should clip right into place like it was made for it. errrr.. it was actually

Russ


Thanks Russ

charlie


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #441, 07-11-2008 11:58 PM
      Been doing a little puttering around with the plumbing and also looking at how Russ's ITB setup will work in the engine bay.

Just some teaser shots of the ITB setup.







Here is a picture of how the 3/4" line is running along the firewall. It seems to be out of the way of everything.



This is the lower 3/4" line from the surge tank to the engine.



This is a look at how little space is left over for the cold air intake... You can see the 3/8" line from the engine to the surge tank in this picture too.




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #442, 07-20-2008 01:18 AM
      Does anyone know if these Dorman Quick Disconnect fittings are considered safe to use?



Getting closer to electrical.



Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #443, 07-20-2008 05:57 AM
      :dro ol:: drool::droo l:

Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #444, 07-20-2008 06:00 AM
      forgive me ..I had a moment or 2 of nirvana

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #445, 07-20-2008 07:47 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Does anyone know if these Dorman Quick Disconnect fittings are considered safe to use?


They aren't even close. Your car will explode the very first time you pressurize the fuel rail.

Kidding.

I ran those for a year and a half daily driving my Northstar car and had zero problems.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #446, 07-20-2008 12:26 PM
      Lol, Erik you crack me up!

Thank you Will that was the kind of info I was hoping for.


Russ544 MSG #447, 07-20-2008 12:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Does anyone know if these Dorman Quick Disconnect fittings are considered safe to use?



I think it's a different brand that I use, but they look the same. they do feel funky when you clip them on, but I've never had one leak or break, and it sure is nice to be able to just clip them on (or off) as needed.

 
quote

Getting closer to electrical.



so you'll be pulling the engine out again??? I thought you had the harness on the engine already.
Wile I was working on my itb air box the other day I noticed that the oil dipstick is going to become VERY hard to get at pretty soon so next time I have the engine out I plan to either look at the possibility of drilling for oil (for the tube) on the other side of the block or building a long honkin extension for the existing one. that's something you might want to look at also.

Russ




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #448, 07-20-2008 01:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
so you'll be pulling the engine out again??? I thought you had the harness on the engine already.
Wile I was working on my itb air box the other day I noticed that the oil dipstick is going to become VERY hard to get at pretty soon so next time I have the engine out I plan to either look at the possibility of drilling for oil (for the tube) on the other side of the block or building a long honkin extension for the existing one. that's something you might want to look at also.

Russ



Hi Russ, thanks for the input.

Yes I will be raising the car yet again... I had the engine out between the last two posts but after some work I had to lower the car to check clearances. The holley harness looks pretty nice but I have a ways to go in figuring out how to setup the electrical.

I may have to do the same as you with the oil dipstick but for now it is reachable. It is not in the stock location as this is not the stock dipstick. I had to bend it around and remove the original mounting tab to get it to fit. So it most likely is not where it normally would be. I did put the required amount of oil in the engine and the dipstick reflected the correct level. I hope it will work out ok. I am more worried about it leaking than anything. Glad to hear things are starting to relax for the season.

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 07-20-2008).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #449, 08-19-2008 01:08 PM
      One month update: A couple of things have come up that needed my time so the electrical has been delayed a little bit.

Here is the rear of the motor, mostly complete.



Here is the front of the motor, lots to do yet...



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #450, 08-30-2008 10:09 AM
      Dohhh! Wrong temp. gauge/idiot (me) light sensor... Ordered the correct connector from the Fierostore.com

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #451, 09-05-2008 03:02 AM
      I am hoping to mount this little wide band A/F gauge just forward of the shifter bezel.



Russ544 MSG #452, 09-05-2008 10:51 AM
      so you'll be using two wideband O-2 sensors then? one for the Holly ECM and one for the guage? or can you run them parallell? It would be nice to have the guage to keep tabs on things. sure a lot easier than having the laptop sitting on the seat andf trying to read it wile driving

Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #453, 09-05-2008 05:07 PM
      I could use two wide band sensors and controllers, (they even have a dual sensor controller) and I may end up doing that so I can have the more modern wide band controller hooked up to the Holley. For now though, I bought a splitter along with this indicator to have both running off of the same wb02 sensor. I think the indicator actually uses a different output from the wb controller than the Holley but they are both using the same RJ-45 (same as ethernet cable?) connection. The splitter does some magic so it all works correctly. Hopefully the indicator will show the exact same info as the Holley does on the computer screen or I am hosed with this system.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #454, 09-08-2008 05:27 PM
      I did not know which intake air temp sensor to get so I called chrfab.com today and ordered the Holley sensor from them. Allen took the time to chat about the project and the condition of the motor. For now all seems positive.

Russ544 MSG #455, 09-08-2008 07:51 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I did not know which intake air temp sensor to get so I called chrfab.com today and ordered the Holley sensor from them. Allen took the time to chat about the project and the condition of the motor. For now all seems positive.


Just use the stock caddy sensor. the Holly/CHRF harness is already wired for it with the correct plug etc. huummmm.

Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #456, 09-08-2008 11:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


Just use the stock caddy sensor. the Holly/CHRF harness is already wired for it with the correct plug etc. huummmm.

Russ


I was going to do that but when I started looking at the caddy, olds and different years I saw several different options. I called to see what would be correct as I am not sure that they all are calibrated the same. He suggested just using the Holley unit (its for the 950 and is universal). I decided that would be best considering I have not made a fresh air duct/filter yet. The price was just a little more than the stock units. $24 for the Holley unit vs $15 to $23 for the OEM units. I did not have an old one so I had to get one anyway.

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #457, 09-20-2008 02:11 AM
      A little progress is being made. However the humidity has been rather high this summer...

Notice the exhaust is starting to rust.



The wiring on the trans side of the engine is nearly complete.



I finally got around to shortening the wires and soldering them (splicing) together the right length. Still have quite a few more to do. Some of the wires were over 6' too long.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #458, 10-04-2008 03:23 AM
      Keeping the thread alive....

I have been working on the electrical quite a lot but not getting much done for all the time spent. The good news is that most of it is done. I pressure tested the crossover tube I made and all three welds were weeping under 25lbs pressure. I took it out and laid more metal over the joints and now it is holding water fine. Since I had the welder out, I went ahead and fabbed up an exhaust support for the rear. Nothing special but it should help a little bit.

Some of the wires bundled up and the rest of the exposed is waiting for the engine to go in so I can get the wire length correct for the pass-through fitting



Front and side view of the rear exhaust support.





Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #459, 10-04-2008 02:05 PM
      Man...
You sure do some nice work.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #460, 10-04-2008 06:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Man...
You sure do some nice work.


Thank you!




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #461, 10-09-2008 04:36 AM
      Got most of the wiring done. I put power to the system and starting putting plugs together. No smoke so far... I noticed a .45amp draw and found it to be from the headlight system. A quick wiggle of the headlight switch towards off seemed to clear up that minor drain. I probably need to get a new switch so I don't get stuck somewhere with a dead battery.

I got the 86GT rear lights/cruise wiring harness modified and plugged in. All lights are working correctly and no funny stuff going on up front so it should be good. (I removed all the blower motor and cruise control wires plus I re-located one of the wires on the C500 to G7)

I do have a question for the more knowledgeable folks. With power applied to the system but no computer installed, should the tach sense wire coming from the instrument cluster (tach gauge) be approx +12v ? It makes sense that it would be and then the spark system would ground the wire at the appropriate times to create a pulse. Not sure about these newer cars though...

Things left to do before a start attempt. Install the battery box under the spare tire and run the cables rearward. Setup a pigtail so I can plug in either a wide band or narrow band O2 sensor from inside the car. (near the computer) Put the rear body on and mount the mufflers centered in the exhaust tip cutouts. (I found out that the notchie has a slightly different position for the dual exhaust than the GT)

Drink more whisky... and give it a try...


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #462, 10-09-2008 11:19 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

With power applied to the system but no computer installed, should the tach sense wire coming from the instrument cluster (tach gauge) be approx +12v ?


Yes.

If you pull whatever fuse you're using to power the ICM, the voltage on the tach wire should go away.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #463, 10-09-2008 12:33 PM
      Cool Charlie. Almost there. What are you using for the exaust/muffler? I used a Flowmaster 45 series and it's louder than hell. I was looking for a little lower tone. ,<shrug>

Bob


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #464, 10-09-2008 03:21 PM
      Thank you Will. I was hoping that was a correct reading. (I don't want to cook the computer before I get a chance to try it. )

Hi Bob,

Here is a picture of the small mufflers I will try first. These are most likely not going to do much. I was contemplating using resonator tips like the supertrapp but I don't know how that will work out either.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #465, 10-13-2008 04:25 AM
      I've been working on the car here and there so I decided to get some pics posted.

Shot of the engine bay: (it's getting real busy in there )



Wires to/from C500:





pass through fitting:



Holley 950 mounted: (still trying to figure out what to do with the WBo2 controller.)



more to follow:


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #466, 10-13-2008 04:36 AM
      Tonight I worked on the Battery box and the positive cable (1 Gauge stranded welding cable) The Cable actually came with the car when I bought it. The previous owner was getting ready to do the battery relocate himself and had already bought the cable. It was 10' 3" long and it looks like it will work precisely. I bought 10' of non-metallic flexible conduit and it looks like it will work well to prevent chafing of the cable. I will be using 2 Gauge stranded cable to wire the ground. The plan for now is to use several lengths bolted to the frame and to themselves (daisy-chain) to create several grounding points along the way back to the engine.

Picture sequence from front to rear of the battery and positive cable routing:











The black mark on the conduit is where the cable ends. I still need to cut the conduit the correct length and secure it to the frame. At this point I do not have a connector figured out to connect the starter wire to this wire...



That's all for now.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #467, 10-17-2008 01:44 AM
      More pictures of the negative cable routing with integrated grounds.

You can't see the neg cable in this picture but it runs just under the jack handle (lug end) and up under the jack perch near the front passenger side of the wheel tub.



Here, another cable is bolted on the front side of the sheet metal divider (first ground location) and it runs downward and under the frame towards the wheel well.





Back up and along the inner top of the wheel well.






cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #468, 10-17-2008 01:59 AM
      Then it bends down and is bolted to the third negative cable and into the body for the second ground location.



From here it gets zip-tied to the return coolant pipe as it goes rearward towards the back of the car.





Not shown (bad picture) is the end of this cable and the beginning of the fourth cable bolted to the rear bolt of the return coolant tube protector/jack point. This is not a ground for lack of a good connection to the body.

Now the cable comes up the frame just in front of the right rear wheel well and is bolted to the bottom of the sheet metal that is in the area of the original battery location. This is the third frame ground point.





Here is the fifth cable that actually goes from the cable/frame to the engine.





I don't remember the length of the 2ga cable that goes from the battery to the frame in front but the rest are as follows:

2nd cable = 49"

3rd cable = 60"

4th cable = 24"

5th cable = 24"

Other than the 2ga cable that clamps onto the battery the rest are 4ga.






cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #469, 10-17-2008 02:08 AM
      I forgot to mention that I tried turning the motor over with the key after getting the wires all bolted up and nothing...??? The headlights went up and down fast and powerful so I was thinking I messed up the starter wire routing then it hit me... The manual shift cars need the clutch pushed in to get a start signal to the starter!!!

It turned over really well with the plugs in and full compression. The noise it made give me the impression that it may be loud as I don't have the baby mufflers installed yet.


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #470, 10-17-2008 02:52 AM
      Can't wait to hear it run! Nice job !

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #471, 10-22-2008 11:36 PM
      Thanks Erik.

Page 13 must be around here some where...

I wired in the WBo2 setup using small connectors so I can change from the Holley supplied narrow band sensor to the WBo2 sensor in a few seconds. (once the center armrest is removed)

I then hooked up the laptop and turned the ignition on. It all looks to be working ok. The "lean" voltage from the WBo2 presented on the Holley software is showing 4.98 which is pretty close to what it should be reading as a max lean. It will be interesting to see if the WBo2 and the Holley agree on the A/F ratio. If they do and the WBo2 is working correctly it should run the engine ok. (I hope.) The only odd thing I noticed was a MAP value of zero. Looking into the middle of Russ544's ITB found the cause. After the final wire harness redo, I had left the connector off the MAP sensor. It now shows a value of 92. Someday I will figure out what it should show for ambient pressure. (approx)

The only thing holding this back from a trial run is gas, a fuel pump relay and the mufflers.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 10-22-2008).]

buds MSG #472, 10-23-2008 12:39 PM
      Nice to hear your almost ready to hear it.....I've been driving mine all week and I tell ya these motors are a great match for the fiero.....Pulls like a mo fo...

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #473, 10-23-2008 04:30 PM
      Man am I jealous...Mine was so close to getting on the road, but one thing has led to another and now I don't have any front suspension in the car...

Good deal Charlie...

Bob


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #474, 10-23-2008 05:52 PM
      I spy in the background, a Honda CR and it looks looks it has a street plate on it. That's gotta be a hoot!!!

Can't wait 'till you get it started!!!

If you keep doing the same thing,
you'll always get what you've gotten. Joe


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #475, 10-23-2008 07:47 PM
      Thanks for the support guys. There is still plenty to do before it is road worthy but it will be very nice to here it run for a few moments. (assuming it will.) I will have to post a video and I am expecting plenty of smoke...

 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:
I spy in the background, a Honda CR and it looks looks it has a street plate on it. That's gotta be a hoot!!!


Joe, you spy correctly. It is an 01 CR500 made street legal to satisfy the park rangers when riding down the "improved" roads around 4-peaks. (a local mountain with plenty of fun riding around it.) The only other changes were to replace the stock 14t front sprocket with a 15t and add a Scott's Steering damper. Almost all of our riding is desert trail/mountain with sand washes, hard pack dirt and rocky trails. Only when I get too old to kick this thing over will I consider a KTM 300, 2 stroke with electric start.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #476, 11-15-2008 12:38 AM
      I have been busy doing other mandatory things so it has been a little slow getting anything done on the car. I managed to figure out a way to mount the mufflers to the rear of the frame. I think this may work but the only way I see to find that out is to try it. I mounted the mufflers using some angle iron and some rubber mounts. They seem to be pretty secure. Both mufflers looked even when looking at them from the rear of the car but the left muffler looks higher than the right muffler in the pictures I took. I will have to check that and adjust it when the body is being secured onto the car. I hope to find an oval exhaust tip that will be about the same size and shape as the end plate of the muffler. There is about 6" of room to add a tip that will make them look nice.









motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #477, 11-15-2008 01:29 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Thanks for the support guys. There is still plenty to do before it is road worthy but it will be very nice to here it run for a few moments. (assuming it will.) I will have to post a video and I am expecting plenty of smoke...


Joe, you spy correctly. It is an 01 CR500 made street legal to satisfy the park rangers when riding down the "improved" roads around 4-peaks. (a local mountain with plenty of fun riding around it.) The only other changes were to replace the stock 14t front sprocket with a 15t and add a Scott's Steering damper. Almost all of our riding is desert trail/mountain with sand washes, hard pack dirt and rocky trails. Only when I get too old to kick this thing over will I consider a KTM 300, 2 stroke with electric start.


Capt. I'm going to be down in the Phoenix area at Speed world for a vintage race the last weekend of January, I'd like to see how your car is coming along.

Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #478, 11-15-2008 01:56 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:


Capt. I'm going to be down in the Phoenix area at Speed world for a vintage race the last weekend of January, I'd like to see how your car is coming along.

Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe


Sounds great Joe! You are welcome to come over to have a look and help me drink some of these corona's I have in the fridge.

The only issue may be that I am on the other end of town. (next to Firebird raceway)

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #479, 11-17-2008 01:36 AM
      With a little work I got the cooling system to hold water and the fuel system to hold fuel. I hope to turn the key on it tomorrow sometime.

Hudini (hudini@tds.net) MSG #480, 11-17-2008 08:19 AM
      Looks like allot of hard work is about to pay off, good luck with the first go. How did you end up wiring the positive cable?

I used 00 welding cable very similar to yours and bought connector ends at the welding supply store that are copper and solder onto the big welding cable. Then I hooked the positive straight to the starter. No messing with the old positive cable trying to figure out how to connect those cables together. For charging I ran #4 welding cable from the power block by the C500 to the starter. I also ran #4 welding cable from the alternator to the power block.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #481, 11-17-2008 02:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:

Looks like allot of hard work is about to pay off, good luck with the first go. How did you end up wiring the positive cable?

I used 00 welding cable very similar to yours and bought connector ends at the welding supply store that are copper and solder onto the big welding cable. Then I hooked the positive straight to the starter. No messing with the old positive cable trying to figure out how to connect those cables together. For charging I ran #4 welding cable from the power block by the C500 to the starter. I also ran #4 welding cable from the alternator to the power block.


One end of the cable already had a side mount terminal swedged on and the other was bare. I purchased an 01 gauge 3/8" terminal and borrowed a swedging tool to install it. The end of the starter cable from the starter (original Olds or Caddy part) had a side mount terminal on it so I put a bolt between the two plus a 10 gauge wire that went to the terminal block under C500. I found a couple pieces of unused terminal protectors and used some Velcro straps to hold them in place over the joint. The 01 gauge wire is supported so the joint cannot flop around. this gives me a place to charge the battery and also for a jump start if needed. It looks hokey and later I plan to make a better looking cover that is easy to remove and put back on. The alternator has the stock Fiero wiring going to it. I hope that the alternator has the same type of regulator that the 88 did. The stock wiring plugs directly into the regulator so I have at least a 50-50 chance it will work ok. I have not tried starting the car yet, I believe it will be loud so I am waiting a few more minutes to let the neighbors finish with lunch. I will have the fire extinguisher handy...

picture of the 01 gauge wire to starter cable junction:


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #482, 11-17-2008 05:28 PM
      Ok, so it has been just over 4 1/2 years since I started on this little project.

(Thanks Cliff for keeping the thread alive! )

Here is the "YouTube.com" video of the first start attempt.

I forgot to locate the oil pressure gauge before I tried it so I had to stop everything and figure out where to look and then go again. Several breaks in the video to weed out watching me in a confused state and or the the camera jiggling so much you would get sick watching it.

Lots to do still...


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #483, 11-17-2008 07:58 PM
      Way to go, it's always a rush starting a project for the first time.

Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #484, 11-17-2008 09:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:

Way to go, it's always a rush starting a project for the first time.

Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe


Thanks Joe,

It feels good for sure! Beer thirty tonight!


Russ544 MSG #485, 11-17-2008 10:16 PM
      Well........ IT'S ABOUT FREEKING TIME !! Great job Charley. if that was truely the "first start" then you deffinetly deserve grand kudos. sounded like it fired right up.
No need to explain you're video to me BTW. I know exactly what you were feeling as you repetidly check the gauges, tweek this.... tweek that.... walk around and check the gauges again. all the wile your head is racing in the excitement of the moment, as you try to act cool and calm pretty cool isn't it?

[pat on the back] way to go. you can crack that Corona now !

cheers,
Russ


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #486, 11-17-2008 10:22 PM
      OH YEAAHH!!

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #487, 11-17-2008 11:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

Well........ IT'S ABOUT FREEKING TIME !! Great job Charley. if that was truely the "first start" then you deffinetly deserve grand kudos. sounded like it fired right up.
No need to explain you're video to me BTW. I know exactly what you were feeling as you repetidly check the gauges, tweek this.... tweek that.... walk around and check the gauges again. all the wile your head is racing in the excitement of the moment, as you try to act cool and calm pretty cool isn't it?

[pat on the back] way to go. you can crack that Corona now !

cheers,
Russ


Thanks Russ! It actually was the first start... It did well because I was using your ITB and your fuel map.

Yes, I was a bit hyper...

PS: I expected a lot more smoke...



Russ544 MSG #488, 11-18-2008 06:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


Thanks Russ! It actually was the first start... It did well because I was using your ITB and your fuel map.

Yes, I was a bit hyper...

PS: I expected a lot more smoke...


I was watching the pipes also. looks like you have that problem whipped now. cool.
BTW. I have a nice low mile Aurora motor sitting in my carport for when you decide to do your next swap. I'll be waiting to hear from you soon.

Russ



RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #489, 11-18-2008 07:46 PM
     

Bob


brandon87gt (traylor88@yahoo.com) MSG #490, 11-18-2008 07:48 PM
      I can't wait to see this thing in person! So when are you going to be bringing that puppy to a AZ Fieros meet?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #491, 11-19-2008 03:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by brandon87gt:

I can't wait to see this thing in person! So when are you going to be bringing that puppy to a AZ Fieros meet?


Hi Brandon!,

I have a family friend who has painted cars for a living coming to look at it tomorrow to decide if it should be painted with the body on or off the car. After he is done I should be able to bring it out on our outings if it drives ok. I expect there will be some clearance issues that may take some adjusting (anywhere from minor to major depending on what it is...) so I will have to test it out a couple of times before going on longer drives. Most likely next spring sometime.

I still need to pick up a set of shoes for this thing. I will be looking into 17" 5 spoke rims to fit over the 12" brakes that GSXRBOBBY hooked me up with.

Lol, Russ, I don't know how soon I could start on another Aurora project. I will need at least a week off after this one is street legal... (if I can get it to pass inspection... ) Besides, aren't you going to put that Aurora in your Corvair?

Thanks for the Cudo's Erik and Bob! (more and more N*'s hitting the streets soon... )

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 11-19-2008).]

Russ544 MSG #492, 11-19-2008 11:45 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


Lol, Russ, I don't know how soon I could start on another Aurora project. I will need at least a week off after this one is street legal... (if I can get it to pass inspection... ) Besides, aren't you going to put that Aurora in your Corvair?


Charlie




I did have that in mind when I bought the first car, but since I've been around the late model vairs (1 coupe, 1 vert now) I'm really LOVING the fact that they have NO computer, NO injection, NO power brakes (but still stop vastly better than the P cars), NO electronic ignition, NO power stearing, ..... need I go on? . I'm keeping them just the way they are and DRIVING them : D .
so what color are you painting your car?

Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #493, 11-19-2008 02:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


I did have that in mind when I bought the first car, but since I've been around the late model vairs (1 coupe, 1 vert now) I'm really LOVING the fact that they have NO computer, NO injection, NO power brakes (but still stop vastly better than the P cars), NO electronic ignition, NO power stearing, ..... need I go on? . I'm keeping them just the way they are and DRIVING them : D .
so what color are you painting your car?

Russ


I can't blame you for enjoying the ways of the past. They seemed so much simpler.

Since the summer heat is an issue I am painting the car white with either a red (my wife's favorite color) or blue rally stripe. Close to what Rickady88GT has on his Blue car. It may or may not get painted soon depending on how the guy painting it wants to go about it.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #494, 12-02-2008 02:09 AM
      I have been messing with the idle tune since I got it running and so far I have not been able to get the rpm low enough to equal what I have programmed into the Holley 950. I am beginning to think that I messed up installing the ITB setup and have some serious vacuum leaks. I will have to pull it and check it out...

So in the meantime I went ahead and put the NOS dew wipes on the car. (had to get something done.)

Does anyone know if bead blasting or media blasting the paint off the body will work without harming the surface of the plastic/fiberglass?


Russ544 MSG #495, 12-02-2008 11:41 AM
      bead blasting will deffinetly take the paint off.......... it should also take the skin off the car . get the sandpaper and elbow grease out and get to work . 600 wet should be all you need to do.
I've easily idled the ITB down below 600 rpm with a Holly, so I know it can be done. I suspect an air leak at the mounting flange. did you use new gaskets? are they GM, Fel-Pro, or flea-bay?
When you remove the ITB unit remember to remove the small brackets between the banks of tb so the two sides can be pulled together slightly. that way the whole unit can be removed as and assy without disturbing the linkage sinc.

Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #496, 12-02-2008 12:46 PM
      Awww Crap, I just love sanding!!!

Thanks for the input Russ, I used the supplied GM gaskets that you had cut to fit. I will carefully remove the ITB and see where I messed up.

charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 12-02-2008).]

pdemondo (pete_demondo@yahoo.com) MSG #497, 12-02-2008 02:23 PM
      I saw a car at PISA that he bought from someone who did the media blast. The car looked like a little fuzz ball. The body panels were
not in good shape after that.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #498, 12-02-2008 02:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by pdemondo:

I saw a car at PISA that he bought from someone who did the media blast. The car looked like a little fuzz ball. The body panels were
not in good shape after that.


Thanks for that little tid-bit! Ok, I'll have to learn how to prep a car for paint. It should be worth the several thousand I will save...


Russ544 MSG #499, 12-02-2008 04:15 PM
      Yes, you can save a ton of money by doing a lot yourself. it takes time, which is why they charge so much, but i't's not rocket science. buy a can of wax and grease remover and wipe the car down with that first. you don't want to be sanding wax into the existing paint. our cars don't "dent", so traditional bodywork usually isn't required. what you do need is to scuff the paint so the new stuff will bond properly, and feather out any rock chips in the old paint. I like to use a rubber block to sand with as it will follow the contours of the car better (get them at automotive paint supply store). 600 grit overall. 400 on the rock chips and then 600 over those areas. a good days work should put you in pretty good shape. just remember that if you can feel "it" as you run your hand over the surface of the car, it WILL show up in the finished paint job. you will learn to feel for low spots, but may not even be able to see them [edit to add] until the gloss of the finished paint job shows them to you .

have fun,

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-02-2008).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #500, 12-02-2008 04:45 PM
      Thank you Russ,

I just got off the phone with my friend the painter and he is having me take an old part to a guy that thinks he can do the job. I figure it is worth the dime to see what he can do. The part was destined for the trash anyway... I do not have a lot of confidence that it will work so I am preparing for the manual labor part...

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #501, 12-04-2008 03:09 PM
      I dropped off the parts car panels to see if the media blaster guy can remove the old paint without tearing into the plastic/fiberglass. I looked at some work that he has done and it looks promising.

On a sad note, the front bank of the Aurora just developed a smoking issue. In my limited knowledge of the subject, I suspect it to either be oil getting pulled through the intake valve seals or water is somehow getting into one of the front cylinders. More likely oil though since I have been idling the engine at high vacuum pressure for a long time. No smoke at all for at least an hour of on and off engine run time since I first started it and then suddenly quite a lot of smoke. Hmmm, what to do?...


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #502, 12-15-2008 01:15 AM
      I ran the engine again today for about 30 minutes. It does not smoke at all until it is warmed up and I "blip" the throttle. After looking at the front bank intake valves, I noticed that the suspect #8 cylinder seemed to have a little moisture (possibly oil) on the intake valve. It would make since that this is why this engine was pulled for warranty and eventually I ended up with it.

Can the valve seals be changed without removing the heads? If so can anyone in the know explain the process? I may wait until the car is driving before tearing into it just to make sure the rest of the drive train is working and there are no clearance issues.

charlie



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #503, 12-15-2008 07:18 AM
      You can. I've done it. You need to pull the cams, though.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #504, 12-15-2008 01:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

You can. I've done it. You need to pull the cams, though.


Thanks for the info Will. I will be pulling the engine out after a quick road test to see if there are any other issues. Then I can repeat what I had to do to spike the valves...

charlie



Russ544 MSG #505, 12-15-2008 03:43 PM
      Will,
I was just looking at a bare N* head I have here at the shop. it looks like vlv seals could be swapped out with the head on the block alright, but it would require that you buy or build some pretty tricky tools to do it with. what did you use to compress the valve spring and remove/reinstall the keepers? and how about the stem seal and spring seat/cap? looks like a small slide hammer with a hook on the end could be used to snag the hole in the side of the seat/seal cap to remove them off the vlv guide?

Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #506, 12-15-2008 07:56 PM
      I talked to Alan for about 15 minutes concerning the possibilities. He felt pretty sure that I will need to pull the head to have a valve guide repaired/replaced. That may end up being easier than trying to figure out a system to replace a valve seal with the head still on. I am hoping that since the engine has so few miles on it the head bolt threads may survive. The only other "trick" will be to find a N* mechanic that can look at the head and determine what the problem really is and fix it correctly.

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #507, 12-16-2008 11:31 AM
      Do you mean seals or guides?

The seals can be replaced with the heads on the engine... remove cams and lifters, pressurize each cylinder, then R&R the seals. I used a cotter pin puller and "custom" thick wire hooks, as I recall. I had a thin wall polyethylene tube whipped up to protect the lifter bores and milled a slot in the side of a piece of 3/4" pipe to use to remove the retainers & valvesprings.

Allen Cline has some advice on how to add some RTV to eliminate a potential leak path... I'll try to pull that later.

The seals themselves are unlikely to fail as they are top-of-the-line models with spring retention.


Russ544 MSG #508, 12-16-2008 12:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

The seals themselves are unlikely to fail as they are top-of-the-line models with spring retention.


That's true of course, but this was a warranty motor so it may have had a seal damaged when the factory installed it.

Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #509, 12-16-2008 01:50 PM
      Hi Will,

Alan thought it most likely to be a problem with a valve guide. But as Russ mentioned, he allowed for the possibility of a damaged seal during assembly. It would be nice if I could remove the seals before pulling the head bolts and examine them. Alan also mentioned that he had one head with similar problems that had a casting imperfection. It was a small hole in the head near the seal that would only pass oil when the engine was up to running temp. I hope that is not the case here.

Thank you guys for the help and support.

charlie



On a side note, do either of you know the difference between the factory L47 and the "massaged" version made specifically for the Shelby Series 1? The Shelby engine can be purchased new for about $3K. I have heard it has different cams and can rev higher. But, I have also heard it was used with a supercharger so they may have lowered the compression ratio a tad. I have no idea if it would be plug and play in my car.


Russ544 MSG #510, 12-16-2008 02:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Hi Will,

Alan thought it most likely to be a problem with a valve guide. But as Russ mentioned, he allowed for the possibility of a damaged seal during assembly. It would be nice if I could remove the seals before pulling the head bolts and examine them. Alan also mentioned that he had one head with similar problems that had a casting imperfection. It was a small hole in the head near the seal that would only pass oil when the engine was up to running temp. I hope that is not the case here.



it's not a problem to remove the springs with the head on. just remove the intake cam and offending lifter, set a deep 5/8 or 3/4" socket on the spring retainer and give the socket a modest smack with a hammer. this compresses the spring long enough that the retainers just fall out. I always remove the retainers this way. _replacing_ the retainers will be the harder part however .
you alread know which cylinder is the problem, so just pop those springs off and you'll be able to check the seals as well as checking for excess clearance in the valve guide. I can make you a tool to replace the springs and keepers without too much trouble if you like.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-16-2008).]

AJxtcman (ajjodie@comporium.net) MSG #511, 12-16-2008 07:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


On a side note, do either of you know the difference between the factory L47 and the "massaged" version made specifically for the Shelby Series 1? The Shelby engine can be purchased new for about $3K. I have heard it has different cams and can rev higher. But, I have also heard it was used with a supercharger so they may have lowered the compression ratio a tad. I have no idea if it would be plug and play in my car.


They did not have superchargers on them from Shelby. None of them.
They did have superchargers, but they were dealer installed.
I am 98% sure. I read the Snake Bit book, but it was awhile back

They didn't have different Compression ratios either. I hope that helps you.

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 12-16-2008).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #512, 12-16-2008 08:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by AJxtcman:


They did not have superchargers on them from Shelby. None of them.
They did have superchargers, but they were dealer installed.
I am 98% sure. I read the Snake Bit book, but it was awhile back

They didn't have different Compression ratios either. I hope that helps you.



Thank you AJ, from what little I found, the only difference is the Cams. I only saw one reported redline of 6500 so they may still have the stock springs and retainers.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #513, 12-16-2008 08:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


it's not a problem to remove the springs with the head on. just remove the intake cam and offending lifter, set a deep 5/8 or 3/4" socket on the spring retainer and give the socket a modest smack with a hammer. this compresses the spring long enough that the retainers just fall out. I always remove the retainers this way. _replacing_ the retainers will be the harder part however .
you alread know which cylinder is the problem, so just pop those springs off and you'll be able to check the seals as well as checking for excess clearance in the valve guide. I can make you a tool to replace the springs and keepers without too much trouble if you like.

Russ



Thank you Russ,

That will work nicely for what I need to do. I will let you know what I find out about the seal before you make a tool... If I need to pull the head, I'll have the shop install the springs.

charlie



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #514, 12-17-2008 06:50 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Thank you AJ, from what little I found, the only difference is the Cams. I only saw one reported redline of 6500 so they may still have the stock springs and retainers.


I thought I'd read that the redline was 7200... That would, however, require a host of new internals.


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #515, 12-22-2008 09:46 PM
      Will, do you think the redline can be adjusted or is that set? Maybe add a rev. limiter if that is a worry!



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #516, 12-23-2008 09:44 AM
      What do you mean? Significantly upping the redline of a production engine takes quite a few hard parts. Upping the limiter is totally dependent on what engine management you use.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #517, 01-02-2009 02:37 AM
      Speaking of RPM. I received several 500K Ohm trimmers in the mail. Since they were only a couple of dollars each I thought I would get various styles and pick the one that fit the best. I started with a 6 cylinder tachometer having a factory trimmed resistor value of 312K Ohms, so I set the trimmer to 234K Ohms. (314 X .75 = 234)
Hopefully that will be close enough. If not then I will get a 60hz signal from something and calibrate the tachometer.





IXSLR8 (david@kerrworks.com) MSG #518, 01-02-2009 03:02 AM
      Right on. I need to do that to my tach too. Where did you get your trimmers?

Still waiting for my new radiator. Hopefully it will get here tomorrow and I can start up on the weekend.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #519, 01-02-2009 02:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by IXSLR8:

Right on. I need to do that to my tach too. Where did you get your trimmers?

Still waiting for my new radiator. Hopefully it will get here tomorrow and I can start up on the weekend.


The one I decided to use was the third one down in the left column (RCV) RJ12CY504

Good luck getting it running!

charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #520, 01-10-2009 01:08 AM
      Impatiently waiting on the new shoes! I wanted something in 5 spoke that would be easy to keep clean. These have been around a while and others have already used them so I decided to jump on the bandwagon and get a set. Borbet Type FS 17x7 w/38mm offset front and 17x8 w/35mm offset rear.

The tires will be Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position 215/45R17 front and 245/45R17 rear. I hope they are good, I just went with the tire that got the best overall survey results. They did not have them both in stock in Nevada so I will get either the front two or the rear two tomorrow and the other two later next week. I guess I can install the 12" brakes now...


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #521, 01-13-2009 01:36 AM
      Well Bobby the brakes fit pretty good! I stuck one of these wheels on just to see that it will work ok. It will be coming off again until the body is back on. It appears that it will look nice.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 01-13-2009).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #522, 01-13-2009 03:10 PM
      Yep, looks good. Did you have any problems installing them?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #523, 01-13-2009 03:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

Yep, looks good. Did you have any problems installing them?


The concentric ring was a bit snug but with cleaning off the bearing hub and slightly filing the ring it went together very nice. I would prefer slightly snug over slightly loose so it was very good.

charlie



Fiero2m8 MSG #524, 01-13-2009 10:35 PM
      Hi Charlie,

Just went through your entire build thread.
Kudos to you for sticking with it - my build thread have been around that long too.
That was a long time before that first fire up - congrats as so many projects never get finished.
A couple questions that I may have skimmed over the answers:

1. What year Aurora engine?
2. Could I get a few more details or link to the aftermarket ECM setup? (in case I switch to fuel injected in the future)
3. How did you fix (or did you fix) the compression in the #8 cylinder?

Cheers,
Ryan

P.S. The speedo you sent arrived undamaged and looks good - thanks again, plus for you!



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #525, 01-14-2009 01:35 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero2m8:

Hi Charlie,

Just went through your entire build thread.
Kudos to you for sticking with it - my build thread have been around that long too.
That was a long time before that first fire up - congrats as so many projects never get finished.
A couple questions that I may have skimmed over the answers:

1. What year Aurora engine?
2. Could I get a few more details or link to the aftermarket ECM setup? (in case I switch to fuel injected in the future)
3. How did you fix (or did you fix) the compression in the #8 cylinder?

Cheers,
Ryan

P.S. The speedo you sent arrived undamaged and looks good - thanks again, plus for you!




Hi Ryan, thanks for the Kudo's! It was very rewarding to hear it fire up finally!

My Aurora engine turned out to be a warranty pull because of the #8 cylinder. (which is why it has so few miles on it.) I am hoping it is just the valve seals or valve guides. The engine has date stamps on it that show both 95 and 96 so I am going to guess it is a 96. I suppose they could have switched heads attempting to fix the #8 cylinder problem but I doubt they would have bothered.

The Holley 950 commander setup is old-school but with a wide band O2 sensor and a laptop I believe it can be used with success. Ryan.hess's 7730 setup would be really nice but I had bought this one before he posted about his method. Check out chrfab.com for more info on the Holley and other engine management systems they sell. Allen will take the time to talk to you and give suggestions.

As soon as I get the body back on the car I will test drive it to see if any more mods need to be done while I have the engine out for repairs. Then when I get it back together it should be ready to go for a while. (then I can get the A/C lines hooked up to the compressor and be ready for summer)

charlie


PS, + back at cha.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 08-18-2009).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #526, 02-09-2009 10:58 PM
      Just a bump and some rambling to keep the thread alive.

I have been working on getting the body panels prepped for paint. This is going to take a little while...

Also, I have been working on the interior. The gauge pod is out along with the dash-pad. I have been installing the wire harnesses for electric windows, locks and mirrors. These harnesses are all donations from the black 86GT (an early model with the coupe body and ribbed molding.) That car had 170,000 plus miles on it so I am curious if the power stuff will work ok or not. I am attempting to clean and grease what I can get to. The modded gauge pod is ready to install along with a different dash-pad that currently has no cracks. (I doubt that will last long once I start driving the car.) While I could get to it easily, I pulled the cover off the heater core box and looked in there for any leaks. There are some stains on the carpet but the area around the heater core looks fine. I guess it probably was from the A/C condensation dripping onto the carpet. I pulled the center skeleton and the shifter to clean in and around there (along with making room for the extra wires.) and what a mess! The P/O was a smoker and it looked like an ashtray in there. 20 years of cola products appear to have been spilled there also. It is clean now and the shifter has been greased so it should be ok now. Just need to do the temp gauge/temp light test mode mod and get all of that back together. I will need to do a little modding to the trim surround that sits in front of the shifter to install the A/F gauge. Then it should be complete. Ok, rambling mode off for now.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #527, 03-22-2009 01:39 AM
      With the help from one of our members, I was able to get a smokin deal on a brand new S1 Aurora engine complete with intake system including injectors plus a brand new PS pump. Might make it easier to install PS later in life when more money is on hand. More of these engines are available, BMTFIERO should be posting in the Mall soon with the info. Here are a couple of pictures just after I removed the engine from the crate. It needs to be cleaned still... These are the ones rated at 290 torque and 320hp. From what I can tell, most if not all the extra power is achieved by changing the cams and reving it higher. Edit: After reading several different reviews and articles, it appears that the 290 torque is at 5000rpm and the 320hp is at 6500rpm. I am seriously considering adding the stronger valve springs from chrfab.com to allow the engine to rev higher than 6500rpm.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 03-25-2009).]

BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #528, 03-22-2009 03:30 PM
      For those who are interested here is the link:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/046282.html



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #529, 03-25-2009 03:55 AM
      Now that I have a replacement engine I need to wrap up the wiring project I started. The PW, PL and PM wiring harnesses from the 86 parts car have been installed. But, I wanted to add relays to the window system to keep from frying the switches and help keep the windows going up and down at a reasonable speed. Rodney's announcement of his soon to released window assist module got me thinking that I should do something before putting the center skeleton back in. Since Rodney's product will not be available for a couple of more months I decided to use relays for this car. So I copied a little from Fie Ro's "concept GTR" dash build-up thread and after a few head bashing moments realized it would be simple to use the stock switches with the relays. I have both sets of relays wired up and I finished soldering the passenger side in this morning. I decided to put the relays under the elbow pad area since I will need the space Fie Ro used for my A/F gauge. Some pics:

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #530, 03-26-2009 05:12 AM
      Window relay wiring cleaned up and ready for switches!
The relays are mounted on industrial strength adhesive backed Velcro.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #531, 03-29-2009 03:35 AM
      cptsnoopy
..please post some vids of your car and the sound in the cabin/cockpit from those glorious ITBs as you accelerate ..I need inspiration as I complete mine


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #532, 03-29-2009 02:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:

cptsnoopy
..please post some vids of your car and the sound in the cabin/cockpit from those glorious ITBs as you accelerate ..I need inspiration as I complete mine


Hi Erik,

ASAP! Lol, I want to hear that sound too... I will be using the stock intake to get it running with the Shelby version of the engine so I can get it through emissions easier. Then if all that goes well, I will save that tuning file and try Russ's ITB setup again. If I get that going as well or better than the stock intake then all that will be left is to see if it will make it through emissions the next time around.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 03-29-2009).]

Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #533, 03-29-2009 03:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


Hi Erik,

ASAP! Lol, I want to hear that sound too... I will be using the stock intake to get it running with the Shelby version of the engine so I can get it through emissions easier. Then if all that goes well, I will save that tuning file and try Russ's ITB setup again. If I get that going as well or better than the stock intake then all that will be left is to see if it will make it through emissions the next time around.




What ECM are you going to use with the ITB setup to try to pass emissions?

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 03-29-2009).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #534, 03-29-2009 07:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:
What ECM are you going to use with the ITB setup to try to pass emissions?



I am going to try the Holley 950 for both intakes. There is a program out that helps with the tuning, I think it is call the co-pilot or something like that. It can watch the wideband O2 sensor and replace the values in your base map while you drive or you can go out and record some driving on your data logger and have the program put the correct values in your base map based on the correction amount the Holley 950 needed to use. There have been some mixed reviews but if you end up being one of the lucky ones, you get a well tuned base map in a fairly short amount of time. Then we will have to see if it is good enough for the emissions test.


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #535, 03-29-2009 10:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


I am going to try the Holley 950 for both intakes. There is a program out that helps with the tuning, I think it is call the co-pilot or something like that. It can watch the wideband O2 sensor and replace the values in your base map while you drive or you can go out and record some driving on your data logger and have the program put the correct values in your base map based on the correction amount the Holley 950 needed to use. There have been some mixed reviews but if you end up being one of the lucky ones, you get a well tuned base map in a fairly short amount of time. Then we will have to see if it is good enough for the emissions test.


So, they wont care if its an aftermarket ECM just as long as emissions are within stock paremeters of a N* ?


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #536, 03-29-2009 10:53 PM
      I don't think they will ask much about it since it is an 88, they will look for any smog equipment normally on an 88. ie: vapor canister, pcv system, egr system and catalytic converter. If they don't like what they see then they will send me to a referee that will make the decision for the county on whether or not it complies with the applicable laws. Hopefully It will do ok. I run a Holley analog injection system (Holley Pro-Jection) in my 81 chevy with the controller box sitting on the trans hump. They have never asked me about it.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #537, 04-04-2009 03:37 AM
      I managed to get the "new" dash installed (old one but no cracks yet) and the gauge cluster with 120 speedo and modified tach. It looks a lot better than it did for a stock interior. Paulv sold me a GT steering wheel so that should come close to completing the coupe to GT look inside. When I get a chance, I will run the engine again to see if the tach is close enough to use.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #538, 04-07-2009 01:35 AM
      Temp gauge is off. It indicates 100 when the engine temp is 200. I already did the "lamp test fix" so I need to pull the needle and reset it.
The modified tach is reading about 300 rpm high. I will need to adjust the trim pot to get it more accurate.

I plan on swapping out the bad engine for the Shelby engine starting tomorrow. I will hold off doing any mods to the Shelby engine until after I run it for awhile. For now I will be using the stock intake until it passes emissions then I may try Russ544's ITB again.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #539, 04-10-2009 03:49 AM
      Finally got something done. Bad engine removed:



IXSLR8 (david@kerrworks.com) MSG #540, 04-11-2009 01:50 AM
      So your not using any muffler and just using a cat on each bank? So, how loud is it?

I've got a 80 series flowmaster on my N* and thought it was a bit loud. I think I'm going to find some short muffler tips.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #541, 04-11-2009 05:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by IXSLR8:

So your not using any muffler and just using a cat on each bank? So, how loud is it?

I've got a 80 series flowmaster on my N* and thought it was a bit loud. I think I'm going to find some short muffler tips.


Here are the pictures of my baby mufflers. On the outside of the car it is not too bad at idle and small throttle blips but I will not really know how bad it is until I get a chance to drive it around a little. I also have a set of C-6 Corvette resonator tips that I will put on if I they will fit under the rear bumper. I am afraid that there may not be quite enough room to add them.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #542, 04-11-2009 05:26 AM
      Old rear head photo, looks pretty new...



New rear head photo, is new...



The cams are different between the engines but not so much that it is very obvious. I am curious about the specs on the S1 cams.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #543, 04-13-2009 03:46 AM
      Tried to set the 99 L47 in the cradle tonight and found one of the bosses has been beefed up so I will need to redo the mount bracket before it will sit in the cradle correctly. Doohhh!!

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #544, 04-14-2009 02:41 AM
      A small price to pay for a newer block. GM increased the bolt size from 8mm to 10mm and increased the lower right mounting boss by extending it out from the block an extra 4mm or so. A little cutting and welding and all is ok with the world again.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #545, 04-16-2009 11:59 PM
      I think it is about ready to reinstall. I went ahead and left the TBI on because I wanted to compare the old engine to this one and I would have to change some wiring around to switch to the stock manifold. I will keep the stock manifold standing by if I cannot get this setup working well enough. I added brackets to the cradle to setup the e-brake. The system will need an extension to go from the left to right side but it looks like that will be all it needs. I also installed the motorcycle exhaust springs to the articulating joints between the solid mounted exhaust and the mufflers. It looks like they may work ok. They do look a bit cheesy though. Good thing they will be mostly out of sight...





cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #546, 04-17-2009 07:33 AM
      Couple more pics, then off to bed. Engine is back in the car, just need to add coolant and hookup the + side of the battery.





BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #547, 04-17-2009 09:05 AM
      Man that engine sure look purddy. I'm waiting on one thing then I can start my thread.



motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #548, 04-17-2009 02:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Couple more pics, then off to bed. Engine is back in the car, just need to add coolant and hookup the + side of the battery.


I seriously doubt I could have gone to bed if I was that close.

That's lookin' soo cool.

Joe



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #549, 04-17-2009 09:51 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BMTFIERO:

Man that engine sure look purddy. I'm waiting on one thing then I can start my thread.



Hmmm, got me wondering what that is....


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #550, 04-17-2009 09:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:


I seriously doubt I could have gone to bed if I was that close.

That's lookin' soo cool.

Joe


Thanks Joe,

I had to get some sleep 'cause work don't appreciate it if I am too tired...


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #551, 04-18-2009 02:47 AM
      Lucky You

I had to install an "engine" into a Ford truck today ..I am worn out ..I'd much rather be worn out installing that pipe dream of yours


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #552, 04-18-2009 03:18 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:

Lucky You

I had to install an "engine" into a Ford truck today ..I am worn out ..I'd much rather be worn out installing that pipe dream of yours


My truck needs an upgrade but since it gets used so little I am putting it low on the list. I helped on a Ford once, just the usual bloody knuckles and soreness afterward.

Speaking of pipe dreams:

I kinda lied about only needing to put in coolant and hook up the + cable. There was the baby mufflers to put back on and I needed to clean up the install a tad too. The angle iron was cut and ground to improve the appearance and also get rid of the extra weight that was not doing anything. Then the stubby pipe was cut off the baby mufflers and some cut-down C-6 corvette resonator tips where welded on. (horrible weld job with the bad angles) I still need to install the ebrake cables and see how close I came with the brackets.

These C-6 tips look Bad Azzz to me!









Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #553, 04-19-2009 12:27 AM
      I have those exact same tips I am using for my N*! What mufflers are those?
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


My truck needs an upgrade but since it gets used so little I am putting it low on the list. I helped on a Ford once, just the usual bloody knuckles and soreness afterward.

Speaking of pipe dreams:

I kinda lied about only needing to put in coolant and hook up the + cable. There was the baby mufflers to put back on and I needed to clean up the install a tad too. The angle iron was cut and ground to improve the appearance and also get rid of the extra weight that was not doing anything. Then the stubby pipe was cut off the baby mufflers and some cut-down C-6 corvette resonator tips where welded on. (horrible weld job with the bad angles) I still need to install the ebrake cables and see how close I came with the brackets.

These C-6 tips look Bad Azzz to me!










cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #554, 04-19-2009 12:56 AM
      Hi Erik,

EDIT: Disregard my previous rambling. I did a search and found that the Mazda MX-5 (not sure what year) has these exact mufflers. They are the primary muffler of a two muffler system from what I can tell. Look at item number 9.2. Here is a link to the .PDF file that has the info near the top of the page along with pictures near the bottom of the page. I was given these as used for $10 each. The're really just straight perforated pipe with glass packing around them. Better than nothing though. I got a 10 minute video uploading to YouTube.com of the first start of this engine. It idles better than the first one and after it kicked out all the oil (in the form of smoke) in the left exhaust from the old engine, it seems to be running awesome with no smoke. I hope it continues to do this well. Now I will really have to work on getting this thing roadworthy.
Video link...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 04-19-2009).]

Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #555, 04-19-2009 02:51 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Hi Erik,

EDIT: Disregard my previous rambling. I did a search and found that the Mazda MX-5 (not sure what year) has these exact mufflers. They are the primary muffler of a two muffler system from what I can tell. Look at item number 9.2. Here is a link to the .PDF file that has the info near the top of the page along with pictures near the bottom of the page. I was given these as used for $10 each. The're really just straight perforated pipe with glass packing around them. Better than nothing though. I got a 10 minute video uploading to YouTube.com of the first start of this engine. It idles better than the first one and after it kicked out all the oil (in the form of smoke) in the left exhaust from the old engine, it seems to be running awesome with no smoke. I hope it continues to do this well. Now I will really have to work on getting this thing roadworthy.
Video link...


That left exhaust was very annoying till it cleared up ...It sounds quiet enough ..perfact for tooling around ..I bet it really barks when opened up and adds to the symphony of ITB's ..I'll check into getting some mufflers like that as I really have no room for them anywhere else unless I want to go with a stock style muffler config and I surely don't because its all about the sound for me


BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #556, 04-19-2009 07:33 AM
      That what I am talking about that Sounds GRRRRREAT!!!

I hope mine sound that good please, please, please, please!!!!!!

Now get her button up


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #557, 04-19-2009 10:54 AM
     

Joe


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #558, 04-19-2009 11:02 PM
      Thanks guys!,

I took the instrument cluster off and fixed the temp gauge and tachometer. Now that I got it all assembled again I can see what kind of trick it will be to get the ebrake cables routed and connected.

Just curious what would be a good set of brake pads for the stock 88 calipers with the 12" corvette rotor upgrade. The rotors are slotted and drilled but I doubt that would change which brake pads you would use. I do not intend to do a lot of spirited driving with this car so the pads do not need to be super high performance.

Charlie



BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #559, 04-20-2009 12:33 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

. . . I do not intend to do a lot of spirited driving with this car so the pads do not need to be super high performance.

Charlie


Yeah Riiiight!!!



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #560, 04-20-2009 03:54 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BMTFIERO:


Yeah Riiiight!!!


Well, I don't want to blow the trans out for at least a week or two!

I am trying to figure out where I can pick up a 7" extension of steel wire to connect the parking brake cables together. I will have to start calling around tomorrow and see if anyone can help with that.


BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #561, 04-24-2009 10:06 AM
      Any luck on the brake cable extension?
Edit: Because Page 15 is mine all mine (insert evil laugh here)

[This message has been edited by BMTFIERO (edited 04-24-2009).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #562, 04-27-2009 07:40 AM
      Was out of town over the weekend but so far I have not found a place locally to make an extended cable.
Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #563, 05-01-2009 01:56 AM
      I found a company locally that was able to come close to the same cable setup that is stock for the Fiero. I had them sell me a cable that was 7" longer than stock for the cable that runs from the ebrake handle to the splitter/adjuster. It seems to be ok for now. I will have to see how it works over time. I am new at doing the Fiero brakes so I spent extra time tonight learning about them and completing a brake pad R&R for the right rear brake. The caliper appears to be the pre-recall style with the plastic air-vent plug in the face of the piston. It seemed to be in good condition overall so I just cleaned it up a bit and lubricated the sliders. I used the "screw-in" method to compress the piston into the caliper and that seemed to work fine. Tomorrow I hope to get the other side done and then I will start looking at how to get cool and clean air to the ITB setup.









Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #564, 05-01-2009 11:30 AM
      I really like the placement of the mufflers...it utlilizes space that was previously for nothing... I hope the fascia fits well. I wonder what those mufflers would sound like with a 3800? -Jason

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #565, 05-01-2009 02:51 PM
      I imagine they would be ok. Not sure as each cylinder is bigger and that may make for more noise. I am hoping to get the bumper cover on soon to see how the tips look. They may stick out just a tad. The mufflers fit good without the tips but they needed some bling.
Charlie



Fierofreak00 (jason_crego@hotmail.com) MSG #566, 05-01-2009 04:03 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I imagine they would be ok. Not sure as each cylinder is bigger and that may make for more noise. I am hoping to get the bumper cover on soon to see how the tips look. They may stick out just a tad. The mufflers fit good without the tips but they needed some bling.
Charlie



I'm not a fan of the idle of the 3800 in a Fiero, I think the exhaust is too loud. I'd like to tone mine down to about what it sounds like in a Grand Prix......
and it sure beats the heck out of cutting up the trunk.. -Jason


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #567, 05-02-2009 03:23 AM
      forgive the question, I am tired but, are those 12 inc corvette rotors?? They look like mine of which I am personally very pleased with on my car stopping power and anti fade wise

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #568, 05-02-2009 04:33 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:

forgive the question, I am tired but, are those 12 inc corvette rotors?? They look like mine of which I am personally very pleased with on my car stopping power and anti fade wise


Why yes, they are. These are from the batch that GSXRBOBBY put together and sold several years ago. Thank you for the input, I was hoping that they would be a nice improvement. I still have some work to do on the brakes. After getting the left side cleaned up, lubricated and new pads installed, the brake pedal feels mushy so there may be a bleeding to do or maybe something needs attention that I missed.

On another note, I had also purchased Rodney's 87/88 headlight actuator repair kits several years ago and I put them in tonight. The hardest part was finding were I had stashed the parts so long ago...

Charlie



RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #569, 05-02-2009 11:59 AM
      Looking great Charlie. You're making great progress. I'm mired in too many projects. Can't get anything finished, but it does start again as of a few hours ago.

Bob


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #570, 05-02-2009 09:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

Looking great Charlie. You're making great progress. I'm mired in too many projects. Can't get anything finished, but it does start again as of a few hours ago.

Bob


I know just what you mean.

Glad to hear its running again, great incentive to fiddle with it some more.

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-02-2009).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #571, 05-04-2009 12:22 AM
      Some teaser pics. Need to figure out how much space there is above the ITB's. It looks like I will have just over 3" to play with for a plenum. For now I want to keep it under the deck-lid. With the rear fascia on I can see that the right exhaust tip needs to be raised a little to match the left side. The tips are a tad long but they do not extend beyond the rear of the rear fascia.



The rims and tires look like they will work nicely.



BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #572, 05-04-2009 02:30 AM
      Is that light that I see at the end of the tunnel?

Russ544 MSG #573, 05-04-2009 10:21 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BMTFIERO:

Is that light that I see at the end of the tunnel?


Glad it's not me in that tunnel, or that light would be an oncoming train .
Looks great Charlie!! your persistance is finally paying off.
so are you expecting to go to the smog cops with the ITBs installed after all then?

Russ544


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #574, 05-04-2009 01:50 PM
      Hi Tim,
I hope so, I need to get the intake plenum done and then get back to the painting. It appears that I will need a new master cylinder as it is gurgling when I push on the brakes. I think I messed it up by pushing it way past where it normally goes and tore the seals. While I am at it, I will replace the flex lines, so there are a few more things to do to get it rolling.

Hi Russ,
Yes, I hope to get a permit when it is time to tune and see what I can get done, then take it in and see what they tell me. I figure it is ok to try it this way first. If that does not work then I can go back and try the stock intake and do it all over again.

Charlie



motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #575, 05-04-2009 03:51 PM
      Damn, I was going to say something about a train, but Russ beat me to it.

lookin' good.

Joe


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #576, 05-05-2009 01:58 AM
      Thanks Joe,

I am hoping to avoid trains if I can help it!

Charlie



motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #577, 05-05-2009 10:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Thanks Joe,

I am hoping to avoid trains if I can help it!

Charlie


The big problem for me when it comes to seeing light at the end of the tunnel, is that the tunnel caves in !!! Trains I can deal with, I just hate being buried alive.

Joe


Russ544 MSG #578, 05-05-2009 08:46 PM
      If, grasshopper, as you travel the hiway of life you find that everything is coming your way.... perhaps you're in the wrong lane


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #579, 05-05-2009 09:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

If, grasshopper, as you travel the hiway of life you find that everything is coming your way.... perhaps you're in the wrong lane


What you mean I'm not supposed to drive in the left lane???

Joe


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #580, 05-06-2009 01:52 AM
      Maybe that is why I almost got killed driving in New Zealand?
They probably thought it was the other way around, that I was trying to kill them...

Hey Russ, is this anything like what you started doing for your air intake?



Here are some pictures with the velocity stacks sitting on the ITB's. If you look carefully you can see that they have a groove molded into them just above the clamp ring. This is ideal as it will hold the base plate for the plenum above several things that would otherwise need to be removed. I am hoping that a 3" intake tube from a filter cone located forward of the left rear wheel will supply enough air for the system.







cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #581, 05-06-2009 01:54 AM
      Forgot to add that RockAuto ended up having the best prices I could find for a new brake master cylinder and flex lines, so they are on the way.


Russ544 MSG #582, 05-06-2009 10:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Hey Russ, is this anything like what you started doing for your air intake?



Yes. that's exactly what I built as a base plate. however that's also as far as I ever got with the project. I did cut a hole in my decklid however . my concept was to have a clear plexi "bubble" mounted to the baseplate, and that would stick through the decklid (an inch or so)as a "shaker" style intake. that way you show off the individual stacks, yet still have a good filter system. I haven't found anyone around here that can produce a bubble for me however.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 05-06-2009).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #583, 05-06-2009 10:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:


Yes. that's exactly what I built as a base plate. however that's also as far as I ever got with the project. I did cut a hole in my decklid however . my concept was to have a clear plexi "bubble" mounted to the baseplate, and that would stick through the decklid (an inch or so)as a "shaker" style intake. that way you show off the individual stacks, yet still have a good filter system. I haven't found anyone around here that can produce a bubble for me however.

Russ




Cool! I think there will be enough space below the deck lid for now. I can always cut a hole in the deck lid in the future if it seems like a good idea later.

While I wait for the brake parts and the 2 1/4 hole punch to arrive I will try to finish swapping out the power accessory parts and install the new dew-wipes in the 86 fiero.

Charlie




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #584, 05-11-2009 02:36 AM
      Not too much to report. I took the window regulators out of the 86GT(yellow coupe body) and put new aftermarket motors on them. I took the donor car regulators (86GT early coupe style with 180K miles on it before parting out) and put new aftermarket motors on them. I put the donor car regulators in the 86GT(yellow coupe body) and also installed the new dew wipes. Other than the drivers side headlight gear needing replacement, the daily driver is almost in normal condition for driving.

I started working on installing the brake flex lines and master cylinder on the 88 but ran into some resistance trying to get the front right rotor off. 24 hours of PB, heat, hammering and pulling finely paid off and I was able to R&R that brake setup. I just need do the left front brakes and install the flex line for the left rear brake. The master cylinder will be last to go on.

Picture of a stubborn right front rotor. This was after approximately 22 hours of working on trying to pull it off the hub. Amazing what 21 years and some light rust can do.



Carcenomy MSG #585, 05-11-2009 07:31 AM
      Holy crap, this build is looking pretty damn sharp. The fabrication work is impeccable! Bring on more updates!

[This message has been edited by Carcenomy (edited 05-11-2009).]

THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #586, 05-11-2009 10:18 AM
      I will go with a 4 or 5 inch diameter filter or bigger if possible. If not then try using 2 of 3" diameter filters one on each side... You have upgraded the air flow from the factory Single throttle body, and this clearly is a step forward. Now don’t take a step back and get a 3" restricted filter in there...

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #587, 05-11-2009 12:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by THE BEAST:

I will go with a 4 or 5 inch diameter filter or bigger if possible. If not then try using 2 of 3" diameter filters one on each side... You have upgraded the air flow from the factory Single throttle body, and this clearly is a step forward. Now don’t take a step back and get a 3" restricted filter in there...


I am not familiar with the cold air systems or what should be considered minimums. Can you tell me if it is important to just have a larger filter opening (using an adapter to neck down the size from 5" to 3" tubing) or do I need a 4 or 5 inch intake tube in addition to the larger filter? I assume that in this case larger is better but with the limited room larger tubing means exponentially increasing the difficulty in routing and fitment.

Thank you for your input!

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #588, 05-11-2009 01:01 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Carcenomy:

Holy crap, this build is looking pretty damn sharp. The fabrication work is impeccable! Bring on more updates!



Thank you! I will keep them updates rolling.

Charlie



THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #589, 05-11-2009 04:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


I am not familiar with the cold air systems or what should be considered minimums. Can you tell me if it is important to just have a larger filter opening (using an adapter to neck down the size from 5" to 3" tubing) or do I need a 4 or 5 inch intake tube in addition to the larger filter? I assume that in this case larger is better but with the limited room larger tubing means exponentially increasing the difficulty in routing and fitment.

Thank you for your input!

Charlie


In an ideal scenario, would be not having any kind of restrictions at all. Take a look at some race cars intakes.

Of course these are the extreme applications were HP is the ultimate goal at the expense of the engine’s life spam (That’s what sponsor’s are for…). But for a street application there is the need to keep debrief from flying into the engine for obvious reasons. However keeping the restrictions to a minimal is the key factor, so the least amount of HP is sacrificed. You have already overcome the biggest of all challenges by using an ITB setup. Making the best use of it includes to provide Little to None restrictions.

Because the location of the engine of the Fiero (behind the rear windshield). You do have to induce air flow with the use of an air scoop to help the airflow. Now to keep things clean I would try to get a set of Mini K&N filters for each TB.
http://www.epicwelding.com/...images/honda_itb.jpg

But if the use of a box is what you have in mind try to make the thing as BIG as possible, and do make sure the air filters that you use are big in diameter. When I was talking of 4 to 5 inches I was talking of the Air filter’s diameter (at the neck), where the air filter meets the intake tube.

I can’t remember the exact size of the stock N* TB, but I think it is like 75mm and that is roughly 3 inches in diameter. And I don’t know for sure the diameter of each of your TB but if I had to guess it is about 44mm each that is almost 2 inches “Each” and you have 8 of them... Means that if you had to put together all of your ITBs areas into a single TB you would have to have a TB that was at least 11 or bigger Throttle body. So can’t really expect to match it to a 3 inch Air filter.

If you care for the exact size you can do the math A(cir)= (pi) x (r)square




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #590, 05-12-2009 03:30 AM
      Doing the math using 8 - 40mm throttle bodies, I come up with an equivalent single tube size of 4.4548". I don't know if I can run tubing that large or not but I will check into it. Thanks again for the input.

Charlie



THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #591, 05-12-2009 10:37 AM
      Thats it, cptsnoopy
Just go with a single 5" filter. But I recomend using two 3" filters. WIth one on the left and one on the right. Because I too have planned to go with ITBs I have thought of installing GT quarter Scoop windows and make a sort of funnel on each back side of the scoops to collect the air, and running a 3" pipes into the intake box.

Think about it.
JG


BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #592, 05-12-2009 01:20 PM
      I must say that the last few post on this thread have really been informative. But could one of you take time to explain the advanages of using ITBs to a engine mechanics newbie?

THanks,
Tim

I am not a thread Hijacker!!!


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #593, 05-12-2009 07:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BMTFIERO:

I must say that the last few post on this thread have really been informative. But could one of you take time to explain the advanages of using ITBs to a engine mechanics newbie?

THanks,
Tim

I am not a thread Hijacker!!!


There is definitely a coolness factor, but other than that...It has to do with flow dynamics and the power band that an engine is designed to run at. In this case it's coolness.

Bob

Please don't take that the wrong way because I'd take it in a sec. 8)

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 05-12-2009).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #594, 05-13-2009 05:38 PM
      Hi Bob,

The primary reason for buying Russ544's ITB setup was the "coolness" factor. In fact it is also the most expensive part that I have purchased for my project. I do not expect any extra performance from it. If it does improve the drivability and or performance of the car that will be a bonus. The second reason is that it does not force me to change the routing of the transmission shifter cables. The third reason is that Russ found that his ITB system provided a better idle when using a Holly 950 Commandor engine management system.

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-13-2009).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #595, 05-13-2009 05:55 PM
      Hi Tim,

Will can do your question justice. I am not well versed on the pro's and cons of ITB vs stock style single throttle body/intake manifolds. As posted above I really like the bling factor. One of the things I now have to consider is proper synchronizing of each throttle body to the others. I have heard that it can be a real PITA. I am hoping that it will go well.

Charlie


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #596, 05-14-2009 02:50 AM
      a dual airbox ala F360 or f430 would really look sweet

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #597, 05-21-2009 05:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:

a dual airbox ala F360 or f430 would really look sweet


Hi Erik,

Not sure what that looks like but today I finally got all the holes cut in and the metal bent to match the angle of the ITB's. It needs to be trimmed some more but this is the basic idea. The FAI intake hole is only 3 1/8" right now as that is the largest punch I had. I will enlarge that as necessary to fit whatever tubing I end up using. For this to work properly I am going to need to cut and raise the decklid over the plenum. I will have to decide at some point if I will do that or not.



BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #598, 05-21-2009 08:14 PM
      Sweet!!!!

Russ544 MSG #599, 05-23-2009 11:03 PM
      If you cut off the top of the velocity stacks just above the base plate "gromet" area, would that allow it to go under the decklid once the top of the airbox is fitted? It might hurt the airflow above 10,500 RPM somewhat however.

Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #600, 05-24-2009 04:24 AM
      Thanks Tim!

Hi Russ, I am glad you brought that up. With the full height of the vel-stacks there is not quite enough room above them to draw air unrestricled. I would rather not cut them down because it takes away from the "bling" factor. If they really do nothing in the stock rpm range I will cut them down to achieve more space between the ITB inlets and the bottom of the decklid.


Russ544 MSG #601, 05-24-2009 07:17 PM
      So you're planning to use a clear top of some type for the airbox then????

Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #602, 05-25-2009 01:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

So you're planning to use a clear top of some type for the airbox then????

Russ


This sounds a little weird but I have been thinking a pyrex cooking pan if it was large enough to cover the whole setup. I would make a perimeter wall with a gasket and clamps to hold it down. Strong stuff and able to handle the heat. I don't know if it would look ok or not though. Also, I would rather not cut the decklid just yet but it may have to happen. Still tossing around ideas.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #603, 05-29-2009 07:22 PM
      If you could build a box out of clear acrylic or lexan, and have it hang out like a shaker hood scoop...That would be killer.

Bob


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #604, 05-29-2009 11:54 PM
      Your right Bob, that would be the ideal setup. I think that is what Russ had in mind when he was still toying with the IMSA/N* Fiero.

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #605, 06-03-2009 07:20 PM
      Just came in from running the motor (to keep the coolant and oil circulated) and man does that thing sound good!

It may or may not work out in real world driving but until I find out otherwise, I have high hopes for it.

I have not worked on it much for the last couple of weeks due to other commitments but I hope to get started on it again when I get back into town next Monday.

I have decided to make a concealed under the hood intake plenum for now. If the vel-stacks stick up too high and cause issues I will cut them down to the base plate of the plenum. If that is not enough then I will cut a hole in the deck-lid and give the plenum ample room to distribute the air. If I ever come across a way to make a clear lid to the plenum that will hold up to the heat then I will work on that but for now I just want to drive the thing!

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #606, 06-11-2009 01:39 AM
      Little bit of work done on the plenum base plate. Trimming is finished to allow the deck-lid to close and fittings were modified to mount the temp sensor and allow crankcase/IAC air to the engine. I have some thin scrap aluminum sheet (approx. 28 to 30 gauge) to try the first "lid" for the intake plenum. Should be interesting. If it fits and works ok I will use it until I can fab a good looking one from clean metal. In the meantime to check how large the intake tubing can be I routed some 4" drier exhaust hose from the plenum base plate to the left rear wheel well. It sort of fits. It is very close but the fuel fill pipe and the water log both slightly interfere. I looked at it after setting it in place and it is obvious that 4" is more than enough. I may end up using 3.5" or ovaling the 4" to provide for better clearance. Either way it'll be plenty.











Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #607, 06-16-2009 05:29 PM
      I spent way more time that I thought it would take to layout this cover. The scrap aluminum sheet cleaned up pretty well so maybe it will end up staying on the car. It would be cool for show purposes to reproduce this in clear Plexiglas. I am more concerned about getting to try the car out and look for serious issues than to spend any more time on making it look pretty. If all goes well, that will come later.





Charlie



Russ544 MSG #608, 06-16-2009 08:32 PM
      and the decklid closes over it ok?

R


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #609, 06-16-2009 10:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

and the decklid closes over it ok?

R


Yes, but I don't know if there is enough clearance for engine movement under torque. I felt about a fingers worth of clearance up front and a little less at the rear of the box. I have the engine tied down pretty good but I suspect there may be enough travel to cause contact. It appears that there is enough clearance above the velocity stacks to provide unrestricted air flow. Tomorrow I plan on getting over to a Turbo shop to try and find parts to make up the intake tubing and filter.

Charlie



BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #610, 07-08-2009 02:31 PM
      This a "Whatcha been doing" BUMP

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #611, 07-08-2009 09:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BMTFIERO:

This a "Whatcha been doing" BUMP


Mostly hiding from the HEAT!!!

I received two different filters to have options on how to get clean and cool air to the intake plenum. I think I'll go with the racing cone filter as it flows double what the other filter can. It can also be placed in a 4.75" tube which makes it ideal for this setup. I am just now working on getting the material figured out. I was thinking aluminum to match the rest of the system but now I am thinking black plastic pipe (would you believe it is from my leaf vacuum?) that happens to be 4.5"ID on one end and about 4.8"ID on the other. I just need an elbow to get it pointed up to the plenum and then figure out how to seal it all up. My plan is to use exhaust heat wrap to insulate the plastic tubing. I hope to accomplish two things by doing that. First, it should keep the air temp reasonable from the stock scoop area and also protect the plastic tubing from melting in the engine bay heat. I don't know if that will work but I am going to give it a try.

K&N racing "cone" filter. 4-7/8" outside diameter at the large end and 2" diameter at the small end. Flows just over 1000 CFM



K&N filter: 6" OD large end, 5" OD small end, 5" long and 4.5" ID flange. Flows around 500 CFM



Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #612, 07-16-2009 11:55 PM
      Seems like getting the final pieces together is taking forever. I mocked up the intake using plastic tubing. Looks like 18 inches of 4.5" ID silicone tubing will be used for the filter housing and it will stick through the left side of the frame about 6". A reducer to 3.5" will be needed then a couple of 45's for an offset and finally a 90 to bring the air up into the plenum. Only $220 worth of silicone tubing and parts...
The stuff is shipped, just waiting on its arrival to see if I can cobble it all together.

Charlie



ShaddowGt (sage14823@xpectmore.com) MSG #613, 07-18-2009 03:49 AM
      awesome work man, id love to see this thing in the flesh some time. hope you finish it soon

pm sent


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #614, 07-24-2009 11:03 PM
      Thanks ShaddowGT!

This is one part that like the wiring, it seems to take longer than it should. I ended up mocking up the cold air intake using plastic pipe and plastic elbows. Afterwords, I ordered online the silicone pipe,elbows,joiners and clamps that I thought I would need. I finally got around to cutting them down to fit. Here are a couple of pics.

This is a view of the filtered air end of the 4.5" pipe. You can see that it is squeezed a tad as it goes through the side of the space frame but from what I can tell, there will be plenty of flow through there. (at least 750cfm)


This is a further away shot of the same thing.


It's hard to tell from the photo but there is a 4.5" to 3.5" reducer installed now.


Elbows added.


Base of plenum added.


Intake side of the filter cartridge.


Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 07-24-2009).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #615, 07-30-2009 02:23 AM
      68 3mm screws later, the intake plenum is roughed in. Just need to try it out on the road as I think it will be hitting the decklid from lack of clearance. If it somehow works out, then I will see about painting it.



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #616, 08-01-2009 06:17 AM
      I spent several hours tonight pondering what to do about the front brakes. I am using the 12" corvette rotor upgrade set that GSXRBobby made for a bunch of us and it was known at the time that the front calipers/brake lines would interfere when the wheels were at full turn. The brake line hits the upper control arm and the upper spring perch. The upper caliper slide hits the upper spring perch. I would have to grind down three different areas to get enough clearance to run the setup without changing the location of the calipers. This is in addition to grinding the lower tip of the lower control arm to keep it from rubbing on the inner edge of the 12" brake rotor. I have decided to either purchase a couple of the brackets that "Fieroaddiction" has designed or try to fab up a pair myself. It appears that putting the caliper back to the horizontal position like stock will address the clearance issues.




If anyone has the Fieroaddiction 12" inch brake setup on their 88, can you please post whether or not there are any issues with clearance with the front brakes and suspension?

I have spent several hours searching PFF tonight for answers to that question and I have not seen a definite answer.

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 08-01-2009).]

Russ544 MSG #617, 08-02-2009 01:04 AM
      Don't know about other designs as II made my own brackets, but I'm using stock 88 hoses and had no clearance issues at all on the fronts. same brackets work front and rear but the rears are flipped over.


lookin good there !
Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #618, 08-02-2009 03:32 AM
      Thank you for the info Russ!

I went out and ran the suspension up and down a couple of times with the wheels turned all the way to each side and both right and left interfere with the upper control arm and the upper spring perch. I then took the adapter off and rolled the caliper to the horizontal position (like stock but further away from center) and it clears fine. Also the stock hose will still work so I am going to try and make the adapters that only move the caliper out but do not offset it up or down. It will require counter sinking the bolts for the adapter/knuckle but it should be work fine. Finding the counter-sunk 12mm bolts will be the hardest part I imagine.

So what's the latest? Busy working or busy playing?

Charlie



fieroguru MSG #619, 08-02-2009 09:39 AM
      I am doing the same - making my own 88 caliper brackets to get away from the caliper/upper A-arm interferance with my current WCF set.

The stock 88 rotor measured 10.432" and vette one was 12.007". To keep the rotor pads in the same relative position the new hole distance should be 0.7875". The stock caliper distance has the edge of the brake pad inset from the edge of the rotor, so you can go out further if you would like. I pushed the pad out flush with the edge of the vette rotor and came up with 0.947" so anywhere in between would be fine... I am going to mock up some at .925" and see how it works out.

McMaster Carr sells a M12-1.75 x 25mm 10.9 rated countersunk bolts for about $7 for a pack of 10.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#91294a354/=30h8rk

I am still looking for a lower cost counter sink bit, the ones in McMasterCarr are about $32 for a 1" bit (the head on the above bolts is 24mm in diamter). I might just end up using one from work.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 08-02-2009).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #620, 08-02-2009 03:20 PM
      fieroguru,

THANKYOU! THANKYOU! THANKYOU!

That is exactly the info I needed. I will start with .85" to have a little slop on each side of the pad.

I will pop for the countersinking bit when I order the bolts. If you want I'll send it to you for your adapters.

I also plan on using cold rolled steel instead of Al.

Charlie



fieroguru MSG #621, 08-02-2009 08:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

fieroguru,

THANKYOU! THANKYOU! THANKYOU!



You're welcome. Glad I could help! I sent you a PM with some more info and a couple of mockup pics you might find interesting.

I have been a lurker in this build thread a long time... keep up the good work! My wife and I are trying to relocate to the Phoenix area in the next year or two (I have to find a job out there 1st) and will look you up when I make the move!



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #622, 08-02-2009 08:38 PM
      Ok, I ordered the bag of 10 bolts, and this 6 flute, highspeed, 1" diameter, 90 degree countersink bit.

Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to pick up a foot of 2" X 3/8" cold rolled bar stock and get started.

Rough layout at .85" hole centers:


Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #623, 08-07-2009 04:21 PM
      I had big plans to have the caliper adapters done by now but my water heater had other plans for me. It took a couple of days to replace the water heater so I got behind. The fuel pump/fuel tank in my 86 was higher on the priority list and now that it is done I hope to get back to the fun projects. The countersunk bolts and countersinking bit arrived so everything is ready to go.

Charlie



motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #624, 08-07-2009 09:52 PM
      Sorry to hear that your in hot water.

Joe


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #625, 08-07-2009 11:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:

Sorry to hear that your in hot water.

Joe


Lol!,

Luckily, the water heater is in the garage and since I was working on the project Fiero I noticed the leak within hours after it started. That helped to minimize casualties.

The hardest part was moving all kinds of stuff to make a path to it large enough to get it out and put the new one in.

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 08-07-2009).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #626, 08-09-2009 10:48 PM
      I ended up doing a lot of grinding to achieve the dogbone shape I was after. I still need to paint these but for now, here are some pics.













Charlie



fieroguru MSG #627, 08-10-2009 08:10 AM
      Looking good very good! Did you use a hand held grinder or a bench grinder?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #628, 08-10-2009 06:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Looking good very good! Did you use a hand held grinder or a bench grinder?


Thanks, Bench grinder but it took about 4 to 5 hours. My Dewalt sawzall batteries died and were too warm to take a charge. Otherwise I was going to chew away most of the material with the sawzall and the finish with the grinder.

Charlie


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #629, 08-11-2009 09:33 PM
      I am starting to wonder about this 12" corvette Brake upgrade. Maybe the rotors we got are not the right ones? I ground the right and left LCA's down but I don't think the drivers side will clear when doing a hard right turn and the with the suspension compressed. The pass side has .046" more clearance (.193") than the drivers side (.147") with the car sitting normal and wheels are straight. There is a rumor that WCF has found a different set of 12" rotors that do not dish in as much and provide enough clearance to miss the LCA's throughout the full suspension range. If anyone can verify this please let me know. Thanks in advance.



On a brighter note, I got my exhaust pipe back from Jet-Hot coatings. It looks nice and should prevent my oil from overheating as this pipe comes within 1/8 of the oil pan as it goes under the engine. This will also help keep the pass inner tripot from getting too hot as it also comes close to this pipe.





Charlie



fieroguru MSG #630, 08-11-2009 10:01 PM
      The interferance with the lower A-arm is more common on the lowered 88's, but still a fairly common issue. I did the same clearance work on the nose of the A-arm on mine to get adequate clearance and did notice a slight difference from driver side to passenger side.

A thin spacer behind the rotor could correct this issue as well, but I would be interested in other 12" rotor options as well.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #631, 08-11-2009 10:48 PM
      I am going to do a little looking around. If I can find a 12" rotor with about 1/4" less offset then I will stick with 12" otherwise if WCF will sell me just the extra brackets needed and 2 13" viper rotors, I will just install the 13" rotors in front and leave the 12" rotors in the rear. As it is, WCF may just know which 12" rotors to get so I don't have to go to the 13" setup in front. If you look at the 13" setup, the offset is close to the same as the stock Fiero rotor offset. This will give another 3/8" clearance for the LCA and additional clearance from the upper spring perch than the 12" setup.

Charlie



Russ544 MSG #632, 08-12-2009 12:14 AM
      No clearance issues or hose problems with the bracket design I made. didn't need countersunk bolts either . I'm using 88 Vett std front rotors all around BTW.
Get your batterys recharged and get back to work.
Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #633, 08-12-2009 01:19 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

No clearance issues or hose problems with the bracket design I made. didn't need countersunk bolts either . I'm using 88 Vett std front rotors all around BTW.
Get your batterys recharged and get back to work.
Russ


Hi Russ,

After looking at mine I am curious how you did not have issues with the caliper/brake hose hitting at full turn? My original Bobby brackets are very similar at where they place the caliper in relation to the knuckle. The ones I made that use countersunk bolts allow plenty of clearance for the caliper but the real question is why the rotors that Bobby found are dished in (offset) too much. I don't know if it is because we got the wrong year or if they all come close on the 88's. Do you remember how much clearance you have from inside face of your front rotors to the outer tip of the LCA? That is an issue I and others have with these rotors from Bobby.

You can't see it now, but I am about to crawl under the car and attempt to tack weld the exhaust pieces back together...

Charlie



Russ544 MSG #634, 08-12-2009 11:38 AM
      It's been a wile, but I do seem to recall that I had to ding over the very tip of one side LCA lip just a scosh. other side was ok. it only amounted to maybe 1/8" interference as I recall however.

BTW. I used some header wrap on the ex cross-over section under the pan. seemed too close to me as well.

Russ


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #635, 08-12-2009 03:42 PM
      Thanks Russ,

I received similar info so the consensus is, even though it looks close, you can usually get enough clearance by grinding/pounding to drive it without rubbing. After checking the position of the caliper on the sliders, it is apparent that the rotor is correct as the caliper cannot move any further outward. A change in rotor would require a change in the brackets. So, I'll leave the passenger side alone and I will grind/pound the drivers side until I get at least as much clearance as the passenger side.

I got the exhaust welded and installed last night/this morning and I can actually move the car under its own power for the first time!

(still a lot of work before it can be driven on the road though... )

Charlie


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #636, 08-13-2009 12:39 AM
      I drove the car out of the garage and onto the street so I could turn it around and back it in. It was getting difficult to squeeze between the wall of the garage and the car to do the grinding. The nice thing to report is that the clutch seemed ultra smooth and has light pedal force. Hopefully no slipping when driven for real. The brakes also seemed nice and firm but smooth. So far so good. Once I got it backed into the garage I went after the drivers side LCA again with the grinder. I hope I did not take too much off but now there is at least 1/4" or more clearance with the suspension decompressed all the way. This is a little more than the passenger side had so I hope it will all work out ok. Need to finish putting the power window motors and door locks in then I can think about getting going on the paint again.

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #637, 08-14-2009 03:45 PM
      That was fun... The power windows and door locks are now installed. The power windows work great (new aftermarket motors) but the power door locks work like you would expect...

I will look around and see if there are any door lock solenoids available to install. That and some cleaning and lubing out to help it out.

Sadly I noticed for the first time since I got this car that the drivers side door glass has numerous chips (very small) in it. It looks like some kids where attacking it with rocks or a BB gun while it sat in the PO's back yard for several years. I have another drivers side door out back so I will check out the glass and if it is in perfect condition, I guess I will need to change that out.

Edit: took the old spare driver's door glass out and cleaned the dirt off of it. It has enough wear marks and pitting from old worn out "wipers" (or whatever they are called) that it is unusable. I'll have to stick with the one I have until I come across a clean piece of glass.

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 08-14-2009).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #638, 08-17-2009 06:06 AM
      Thanks to JazzMan, Oliver Scholz and GSXRBobby for their helpful writeups on tightning the tilt-steering columns. Did that on the 86 last night and if it was not for the outer bearing retainer sticking on the steering shaft I would have had no troubles at all. It just took a leather mallet blow (or two) to the end of the steering shaft with everything else ready to come loose to free it up and get the tilt housing off.
Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #639, 08-18-2009 04:35 AM
      I have run out of excuses, it is time to start sanding. We had the roof panel, rear clip and decklid media blasted to see if it would be helpful. So far I think it is going to be ok. I am trying to knock down the bits of paint that did not come off with the media blast. This is the first time block sanding for me and it shows. I am burning through the black primer in various spots. Hopefully as I get more time doing this I will make less mistakes. The nice part is so far there is no fiber sticking out anywhere. The first three pics are of the panels that were media blasted and no sanding has yet been done. The last picture is the left rear of the car where I am trying to take off the rest of the red paint down the black primer.

On another paint related note. I am now leaning towards a Trans-Am style of white body and dual metallic blue stripes. I need to investigate a little more to see if that is really the look I want but it is a start in the right direction.









Charlie



Russ544 MSG #640, 08-23-2009 03:13 PM
      It will be up to you to carry the torch from here Charlie. mine went on E-bay this AM at no reserve (see mall for link).
who will paint your car?

Cheerio,
Russ544


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #641, 08-25-2009 02:23 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

It will be up to you to carry the torch from here Charlie. mine went on E-bay this AM at no reserve (see mall for link).
who will paint your car?

Cheerio,
Russ544




Please post a pic or link to your new toy! (when you get it...)

Charlie


PS: I'll do the best I can, tough to even try to compete with your skillz!


Russ544 MSG #642, 08-25-2009 10:19 AM
      Just a model A coupe with mustangII running gear. should be fun to cruise around in. bring your wife to Oregon and we'll take you both out to dinner in the rumble seat
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...geName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

PS: you seem to be managing to get your's done (if a bit slow ) without me just fine ha ha

see you soon my friend,
Russ544

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 08-25-2009).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #643, 08-31-2009 04:33 AM
      Thanks for the offer Russ! I don't know when I could work that out but I will keep it in mind. My wife lives in CO, and I am in AZ.

I did some more sanding tonight. Enough to wear some skin raw on my pinky finger...

First two pics are of the general area worked on. The speckled stuff is where the media blast dug deeper in than the black primer. I am hoping a primer or filler will take care of those. The third pic is of a couple of cracks in the corner of the upper rear body. I was given some Evercoat SMC Panel Adhesive 3 #994 to fix it and other cracks on the top body pieces with. Hopefully that will take care of those.

Charlie








cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #644, 10-01-2009 10:48 PM
      Small snag to report.

I have been running the engine every week or two to keep the fluids circulated and the seals lubed. The last couple of times I noticed that the engine was dropping a cylinder or two on the forward bank. I figure that the most likely culprit is an injector. The ones that were in the ITB setup were used and I had the "new" ones that came with the Shelby engine sitting on the shelf. So I had them flow checked and cleaned. They are flowing within 1% of each other so I swapped them in. Now the engine will not start. During cranking I will occasionly hear a cylinder fire but not enough to sustain any rpm at idle.

So, I am wondering if it is considered normal for an old injector to flow more fuel than a new one at the same pulse width and voltage?

I will try enrichening the mixture in the base fuel map to see if that will make any difference.

Charlie


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #645, 10-03-2009 02:00 AM
      All is better. I don't know why the new injectors flow less fuel at the same PW but I enriched the base map and the engine runs again.



Custom2M4 (custom2m4@hotmail.com) MSG #646, 10-04-2009 06:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
and the engine runs again.


Your one step up from my project so far. :P. Keep it up!



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #647, 12-04-2009 01:17 PM
      Just curious if it is ok to sand closer to the base material. Some of the black primer near the rear of the hood is sun damaged. The areas that I have sanded through are nice and smooth though.

Charlie




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #648, 03-12-2010 02:43 AM
      In school until the end of the month. Really hoping to get this painted and on the road this year...

Still considering what to do about venting the front hood and rear decklid... What to do, what to do???

Charlie


BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #649, 03-12-2010 03:38 PM
      Good to hear from you, Charlie I been wondering what you been up to. As far as my swap goes I see a little, tiny beam of light a the end of the tunnel

88GTS (avanvuuren@shaw.ca) MSG #650, 03-12-2010 05:13 PM
      Yea Charlie, we need another first start up video clip!

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #651, 03-19-2010 10:06 PM
      Thanks guys! Still kicking but now that the weather is perfect for doing some more body work, I am buried in school for another few weeks. I would like the next vid to be "first road test"

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #652, 05-28-2010 06:24 AM
      I decided to get brave and try filling in the cracked corner of my rear roof section. While I was using a half round rasp to prep the cracked area it began to look more like a factory flaw in the roof section that was filled in with something. It was crumbling away as I ground it out. I mixed up some SMC Panel Adhesive and added some chopped up fiber. After packing it into the damaged area I let it sit for about an hour. It was ready to sand down by then and as usual it took a bit longer than I thought it would but I think it came out ok. Well, hopefully ok for my first repair on this stuff...

Charlie









cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #653, 05-28-2010 06:29 AM
      The next item on the list was to figure out how to get the hood to clear the Archie Radiator. The hood hinge support was contacting the radiator cap when trying to close it.

Using Oreif's suggestion, I notched the hood and it seems like it will be fine.

Charlie














cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #654, 06-03-2010 02:44 AM
      I ordered this today.

The trunk was getting quite hot on the passenger side even with the stock sheet metal heat shield in place. I am hoping this stuff will help keep the heat out of the trunk if I put it between the stock sheet metal heat shield and the trunk. That and another heat deflector to carry the heat away from the coil pack should be sufficient.

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #655, 07-08-2010 10:28 PM
      I started the process of disconnecting the electrical and coolant systems in preparation to raise the car off the cradle hopefully for the last time. I received the heat shield kit from JC Whitney and hope to have it installed on the firewall and forward trunk wall asap.

Charlie



BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #656, 07-08-2010 11:41 PM
      At this rate I maaaaaay catch up with you j/k

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #657, 07-09-2010 01:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BMTFIERO:

At this rate I maaaaaay catch up with you j/k


Lol, don't you have a couple Fiero engine swaps underway as we speak?

I am hoping my mortality lasts long enough to get to enjoy a couple laps around the block in this thing.

Charlie




RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #658, 07-09-2010 08:49 PM
      I feel your pain, Charlie...At least I went out and bought a throttle body gasket today....

Bob


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #659, 07-09-2010 09:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


Lol, don't you have a couple Fiero engine swaps underway as we speak?

I am hoping my mortality lasts long enough to get to enjoy a couple laps around the block in this thing.

Charlie



I too feel your pain, it's been more than 3 years since I made a meaningful post on my Northstar swap!!!

Man I hate when that happens. Joe


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #660, 07-13-2010 03:35 AM
      It was not too bad getting the cradle out. I just had a hard time remembering how to do it...

If I get more time this week, I should be able to post some pics of the installed heat shield when it's done.

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #661, 07-13-2010 11:53 PM
      I actually spent a little time working on the car again today.

Heat shield from JC Whitney (two 4' X 6' rolls)



Stuff that came with it...



Tools of the trade. I found that Goo Gone (the orange stuff) works great to clean up the sticky over-spray.





Before shot of rear engine compartment/trunk wall



After shot of same.



With stock heat shield.



Before shot of the firewall. This is gonna require some medication...
After shot TBA...



Sneaking a shot of the engine/cradle in... I just love the look of that thing!



Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 07-14-2010).]

BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #662, 07-14-2010 02:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Sneaking a shot of the engine/cradle in... I just love the look of that thing!



Charlie




Gosh, that shur is pretty


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #663, 07-17-2010 02:54 AM
      Tim, that's not a self portrait is it?


Ok, here is the firewall heatshield installed. I hope it helps.



Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #664, 07-21-2010 08:57 PM
      Not completely idle: I thought it would be nice to have a return spring on the clutch arm to help prevent premature throwout bearing wear.

Painted:



Installed:



Charlie



ShaddowGt (sage14823@xpectmore.com) MSG #665, 08-25-2010 08:33 PM
      wtb updaaaate

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #666, 08-28-2010 07:49 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ShaddowGt:

wtb updaaaate


Ok, Lol,

sorry this is a lame update (I don't think you got your monies worth )... I have not worked on project "Christine" for a couple of weeks due to other priorities taking up time...

I did get by AutoZone and picked up some 90 degree molded elbows for splicing in the new heater core. Also, I lowered the car back onto the cradle and got clutch slave and rear bay coolant lines connected. When the heater core is done (probably after removing and cleaning the evap core) I will hook the rest of the engine connections up and see if the heat shield is effective.

Charlie


Engine Bay/heat shield pics. Not much excitement here...





New heater core even though it does not really look new... (from Rock Auto)



Parts to splice in the elbows for the heater core...



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #667, 09-14-2010 04:14 PM
      I finally got some time to get the rest of the connections made and put the coolant back in. It surprised me somewhat that the heater lines did not trap air until I ran the engine. I put back the same amount of coolant before I ever turned the engine over... Anyway I ran it until it was at operating temp for 10 minutes and found zero leaks. The other thing I was checking for was how hot the inside trunk wall got. After installing the insulation it no longer burns the skin but it is still warm. Probably as good or better than it was originally. Now, back to prepping the body for paint... In the pic below, I tried using some JB Weld to seal up the corners of the airbox. I am curious how well the paint will stick.



Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #668, 09-14-2010 04:30 PM
      I forgot to mention that I found the oil pan to be weeping oil and it appears it was coming from the rear bolt hole that holds the Trans to oil pan brace. There is no brace installed so the bolt holes were open. I simply put a bolt with silicone on the threads into the hole and hopefully that will seal things up.

Charlie



Bloozberry MSG #669, 09-14-2010 09:14 PM
      Hey Charlie,

Man, I love that multi carb look! It's a shame to cover it all up with an airbox though... I couldn't bear to hide everything just for the sake of getting some cold air in the cylinders if it were mine. So I went on a surfing mission to see if there was something out there that could expose those velocity stacks and I think I stumbled on something that you need! Check these out at www.h1v8.com/albums/album_i.../4566006/1513317.htm





cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #670, 09-14-2010 11:59 PM
      Hey Blooze,

Those look awesome! Without cutting the top of the decklid open they would not fit but I wonder if I could have a similar style clear cover made for my base plate? Hmmm I will need to look into this further. If I cut the decklid it opens up some problems with rain etc. getting into the valley of the engine. Don't know how big a deal that is but I need to consider it. Thanks for sharing.

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #671, 10-15-2010 12:48 AM
      Finally got back to sanding. My biggest worry was the forward section of the roof panel where the sun rot had crusty and cracked black paint/primer showing through the red paint. It was taking too long to cut through the old paint with 320 wet/dry so I grabbed some 220 dry and got down to the SMC in fairly short order. I am happy to report that the SMC surface appears to be undamaged and if the primer sticks it ought to look fine when painted.

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 10-15-2010).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #672, 11-21-2010 11:44 PM
      Little to report. Sanding when I can. Pics below show tonight's effort. Last pic shows where I need to do another SMC repair. I suspect that this was like this from the factory as I can see some body filler in the area.

Charlie

















Bloozberry MSG #673, 11-22-2010 12:23 PM
      Lookin' good there Charlie. The sheepskin seats have just got to go though! Curious, who makes the wheels you bought, and what are the dimensions and offsets?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #674, 11-22-2010 03:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

Lookin' good there Charlie. The sheepskin seats have just got to go though! Curious, who makes the wheels you bought, and what are the dimensions and offsets?


Thank you Blooze,

Yep, the skins are covering some seriously sad seats... I hope to get some nice new seats once I am sure the car will be drivable. They are so easy to get to I decided to put them low on the priority list.

The Wheels are:
Front - 17X7 Borbet Type FS bright silver paint with a 38mm offset
Rear - 17X8 Borbet Type FS bright silver paint with a 35mm offset

I made a mistake on the front tires though. I should have purchased 215/50R-17's instead of the 215/45R-17's. My front wheel/tire diameter is about an inch less than I wanted. The rears seem pretty close with 245/45R-17's.

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 11-22-2010).]

GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #675, 11-23-2010 02:58 AM
      Wow good to see your kicking butt on this, and it sure looks nice and clean! doing a great job buddy



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #676, 11-23-2010 03:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

Wow good to see your kicking butt on this, and it sure looks nice and clean! doing a great job buddy



Thanks Bobby, glad to see you are checking in once in awhile! Hope the family is doing well and happy holidays to you and yours.

I am getting a little done here and there but the overall progress is still pretty snail like.

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #677, 01-24-2011 12:49 AM
      I hope to get some of Jesse's lambo hinges installed soon and I am pondering the issue of door accessory wiring. I looked for contact strips and the image below is all I could find on the subject. Does anyone know of other similar options?

Charlie





cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #678, 01-26-2011 02:20 AM
      Another box of goodies has arrived...

Charlie








cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #679, 02-02-2011 01:59 AM
      Passenger side installed, still need to finish the wiring. Looks like it will work fine.

Thanks Jesse!

Charlie





















Bloozberry MSG #680, 02-02-2011 08:09 AM
      Ooooooo.... I'm jealous! Watch out for that overhead fan!

I wonder if Lambo hinges would work on the F355 rebodies... being a bunch wider and all, or if the added thickness between the hinge mounting location and the outer skin would cause interference problems? Anybody know?


Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #681, 02-02-2011 09:33 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Not completely idle: I thought it would be nice to have a return spring on the clutch arm to help prevent premature throwout bearing wear.

Painted:

http://images.fieroforum.co...10/clutch_mod_02.jpg

Installed:

http://images.fieroforum.co...10/clutch_mod_03.jpg

Charlie


I assume you haven't driven it yet to test, but this doesn't look like a good idea to me. Modern TOB's are made for continuous rotation. In fact the Fiero slave cylinders have contact springs inside them to maintain constant contact of the TOB to the throw out fingers on the clutch. If you forcibly pull the TOB back with a return spring, you will have excess free play in the system and may not have enough travel in the hydraulics to fully release the clutch.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #682, 02-02-2011 01:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

Ooooooo.... I'm jealous! Watch out for that overhead fan!

I wonder if Lambo hinges would work on the F355 rebodies... being a bunch wider and all, or if the added thickness between the hinge mounting location and the outer skin would cause interference problems? Anybody know?


Good question. I have not seen the F355 body up close so I cant even start to guess...?

Hi Will,

I did not know that the TOB's were now made for continuous contact. I was back in the late 60's when you would wear it out if you let it run against the PP. I have driven it a little and it seems fine. By this I mean engaging and disengaging the clutch about 20 times moving the car back and forth. The clutch seems smooth and the pedal "feels" normal.

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #683, 02-04-2011 02:51 AM
      A friend of mine told me some exciting news the other day and after checking into it, it appears to be true.

Apparently here in Maricopa County, AZ cars that are 15 years or older and covered under collectors insurance are exempt from emissions testing. A quick quote from Grundy's Worldwide for a declared value of $18000 costs 288 per year and includes 500,000 liability with comp and collision (zero deductible). As usual the comp and collision is the major portion of the premium. The story goes that you take your policy info to the DMV and they show you exempt from emissions. There have been some reports of needing to insist as some DMV agents are not aware of the current law. This became effective sometime in 2006. Under collector insurance there will be restrictions on use but since I have several daily drivers this should not be an issue. Yipee!

Charlie



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #684, 02-04-2011 08:22 AM
      Get the code citation (for your own knowledge too) to bolster your argument.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #685, 02-04-2011 01:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Get the code citation (for your own knowledge too) to bolster your argument.


Posting some media links:

Arizona Republic

Arizona Department of Environmental Quality (Bottom of the webpage)

The quote posted below I got from here.

 
quote
HB 2357 amends Arizona Revised Statutes (ARS) Section 49-542 by
exempting vehicles that are at least 15 years old or are of a unique
and rare design and that carry collectible vehicle insurance that
restricts the mileage and/or use of the vehicle (``collectible
vehicles'') from emission testing in both Area A (i.e., the Phoenix
area) and Area B (i.e., the Tucson area).


I did not find an actual code citation but will look further for it.

Thanks for the tip.

Charlie



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #686, 02-04-2011 01:38 PM
     
 
quote
HB 2357 amends Arizona Revised Statutes (ARS) Section 49-542 by
exempting vehicles that are at least 15 years old or are of a unique
and rare design and that carry collectible vehicle insurance that
restricts the mileage and/or use of the vehicle (``collectible
vehicles'') from emission testing in both Area A (i.e., the Phoenix
area) and Area B (i.e., the Tucson area).



 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I did not find an actual code citation but will look further for it.

Thanks for the tip.

Charlie


Lol...How about the Arizona Revised Statutes section 49-542?
http://www.azleg.state.az.u...tatutes.asp?title=49
http://www.azleg.state.az.u...Title=49&DocType=ARS

Don't EVER hesitate to call for a manager at the DMV... The drones are not paid to think.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 02-04-2011).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #687, 02-14-2011 02:13 AM
      Got the other side mounted.

Charlie






cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #688, 03-10-2011 08:37 PM
      The rear upper body clip went to the painter today. He will try hitting it with PPG epoxy primer to see if the edges of the adhesion promoter will cause any problems. If not then I can get to work on getting the rest of the body parts sanded and sent to him.

Charlie



motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #689, 03-12-2011 09:43 AM
      Charlie, its about time ( LOL I'm one to talk )

Joe


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #690, 03-14-2011 10:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:

Charlie, its about time ( LOL I'm one to talk )

Joe


Lol, I know just what you mean...

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #691, 03-26-2011 06:28 PM
      I'm stoked! The painter said that the ppg epoxy primer and the high build stuff he added looked great. As soon as I get past my current back issues I will get going on the rest of the body...

Charlie



Bloozberry MSG #692, 03-26-2011 09:08 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

As soon as I get past my current back issues I will get going on the rest of the body...


Yours, or the car's?


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #693, 03-27-2011 03:50 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:


Yours, or the car's?


Ouch!

Would you believe both???

Had something strange happen Saturday morning that has me going in for an MRI of the lower back... Need to see what I have done this time.

Charlie



Fiero2m8 MSG #694, 03-31-2011 01:00 AM
      Take care of yourself Charlie, we will try not to bump for updates



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #695, 03-31-2011 01:50 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero2m8:

Take care of yourself Charlie, we will try not to bump for updates



Lol, ok!

What's amazing to me is how you can feel so helpless for a couple of days and then as things get even a little better you think there's no stopping you...?? I went in for the MRI and the doc said he would try some injections from T6 down through S1 and if that did not do the trick then we will pull the trigger on the MRI. I suspect that is good news meaning he did not see anything terribly wrong during the poking/prodding part of the exam... (don't take that wrong!)

I am almost ashamed that I let my now yellow coupe 86GT get away from me tonight. Now I have to finish this project car and soon or else I will be worse than a crack head needing a Fiero fix...

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #696, 05-04-2011 10:38 PM
      Bump-date:

I have had some medial branch block injections and so far they work great for at least a week. I felt good enough today to go over and pickup my rear clip so I can sand it for base-coat. (if I said that right...?) Slow progress but some progress none the less.

Charlie




RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #697, 05-05-2011 08:09 PM
      Hope you're feeling better, Charlie...The car's looking great.

Bob


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #698, 05-06-2011 05:37 PM
      Thanks Bob!

I am feeling much better this month compared to last month. Now if I don't do anything too stupid I should be ok. I am looking forward to Paul's hood scoop so I can get more of the parts ready for primer...

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #699, 05-12-2011 06:15 PM
      I just received Paul's hood scoop (Angel Vent v2). Here are a couple of pics. Great workmanship! I wanted to keep the body as close as possible to stock but venting the radiator area air seemed more important and this should do that in style.

For this and other products, look here.

Charlie












cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #700, 05-14-2011 11:52 PM
      I used the trusty Dremel Tool with a cutoff disk to cut the hole in the hood. There is plenty more to do before it will be ready to paint but for now it is looking like it will turn out nicely.

Charlie








88GTS (avanvuuren@shaw.ca) MSG #701, 05-15-2011 11:16 AM
      Hey Charlie, can you please post pictures of the cut without the vent installed. Also, with the version 2 vent, do you also have to cut the sheet metal in front of the spare?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #702, 05-15-2011 05:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 88GTS:

Hey Charlie, can you please post pictures of the cut without the vent installed. Also, with the version 2 vent, do you also have to cut the sheet metal in front of the spare?


I put the pieces that I cut out back in for the first of these photos. I wanted to show how it looked before I screwed up... The first cut took out the part of the lower skin that would seal the spare tire area by mistake. I should have spent more time figuring out which part of the skin could be left in place. It would be a close fit but I think the vent would have fit with that part of the lower skin intact. The second cut was to remove more of the lower skin because it was visible through the vent from the top. If I had to do it over again I would make sure that I left all of the lower skin that touches the seal when the hood is closed.
The version 2 vent does not need any sheet metal cut out. It also allows for putting the sun-roof glass in it's stock location over the spare tire.

Charlie


















88GTS (avanvuuren@shaw.ca) MSG #703, 05-15-2011 07:20 PM
      Thanks Charlie!

Is the version 2 vent hole also 2.5" x 16"? Paul only list the dimensions of the original one on his site.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #704, 05-15-2011 07:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 88GTS:

Thanks Charlie!

Is the version 2 vent hole also 2.5" x 16"? Paul only list the dimensions of the original one on his site.


Your welcome. The hole in this vent is ~ 2.5" X 18.5"

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #705, 05-18-2011 03:41 AM
      Taped in place is the piece that I should not have cut out. The vent fits fine over this and allows the bottom skin of the hood to contact the weather seal as it normally would. I will be bonding this piece back on..

Charlie




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #706, 05-19-2011 01:24 AM
      Pictures of the underside after bonding the lower skin piece back on. I am certainly doing this the hard way. (Paul would have had 10 of these done, filled, blocked and ready for paint in the time I am doing this one... ) I have a number of screws that you cannot get nuts on by hand when bonding down the vent. So I took the time to glue nuts and washers in place so I wont have to drill access holes or cut away any more lower skin.

When I get some time I will diagram dimensions of the hole I cut out. Others may decide to do it differently.

Charlie






cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #707, 05-20-2011 02:18 AM
      Angel Vent-v2 is bonded in. Notice the small amount of lower skin material that needs to be cut out. This works great if you don't mind taking the time to glue a bunch of nuts to the backside of the bonding strips before bonding the vent in place. It does look great though, just what I was after.

Charlie






qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #708, 05-21-2011 11:55 PM
      looks good, I am looking at purchasing this scoop too. I dont understand the screws? Is the top portion of the skin removed, leaving the bottom portion of the hood intact? If so, doesn't the scoop just rest on top of the lower skin? if so, don't you just bond the scoop to the lower panel? I have read the instruction, but they also don't make sense. The pictures show the lower hood intact, so I don't understand the screws.

thanks

rob


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #709, 05-22-2011 07:03 AM
      @ Rob: The screws are there to hold it in position while the adhesive dries. Once set, the screws come out and the holes are filled.


@ Charlie: Looking good.

Bob


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #710, 05-22-2011 01:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:




OK, I get that they will do a great job in securing the scoop as the adhesive drys. I had assumed that when you place the scoop in the hole, it fits flush and all you need to do is put some weight on top of it so that is does not move. I noticed from this pic it looks like a fiberglass strip was added all around the lower panel. I get why you need the stip on the back portion, because when the upper portion is removed, there is no lower there to attach the scoop and it could flex in that area causing a lot of extra glass work, but what is the rest of the fiberglass all around the lower panel? Or is it just that im looking at it wrong. Again, thanks for all the anwers to this, I want to make sure I ask all the questions before I buy the scoop.

//

It looks like you have to move/relocate the overflow bottle. If so, what are your plans, and/or what did you do. Any others also move their bottles?

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 05-22-2011).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #711, 05-22-2011 07:42 PM
      Thanks Bob!

Hi Rob,

I am not sure that Paul recommends leaving as much of the substructure or "lower skin" as I call it in place. The one other build thread that I looked at here shows that Scott cut away all the lower support except for a little at the front edge. I decided to keep the lower structure intact to retain as much strength as possible and also because this new version of the vent lets you do that. Also, it already matches the weather seal (if you don't accidentally cut that piece out) and should help keep the spare tire bay free of debris and moisture. What I did not think of was the possibility of using wood screws instead of machine screws. By using wood screws you might be able to have them "self" tap through a pilot hole in the bonding strips and allow for not using glued on nuts. The down side to that is you would not have the option of large fender washers on the bottom side to spread the clamping load. Another thing that you are confused about (because you cannot see it in the pictures) is that there is a layer of adhesive between the top and bottom skin that is ~ 1/16" to 3/32" thick most of the way around. If you were to lay in the vent on the lower skin it would sit about that much too low relative to the top skin. I sanded my bonding strips to the correct thickness to act as a spacer for the adhesive. Also you need the bonding strips to hold the vent skin and hood skin in alignment all along the perimeter of the vent. Once you have it in hand you will see what I mean. So far I like how this v2 vent looks over the v1 vent but I am biased of course. I highly recommend it. I believe you would have to relocate your coolant overflow bottle but on my car the bottle has been eliminated in favor of a coolant expansion tank in the rear engine compartment. I run a 21lb radiator cap in the front on the radiator and a 16lb cap in the rear on the expansion tank. I am not sure what you would do with a stock setup. I suspect you may be able to just lower it as necessary.

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-22-2011).]

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #712, 05-24-2011 04:19 PM
      Charlie,
Thanks for the info. I think I get it now. I was unaware of the bonding strips, and I get that you need them because of the diff in the thickness of the upper and the scoop. That makes sense. Do you just place them in between the two skins? Do you have to force them in, or do they just fit in between them? Is it the screws that hold them in place too, or do they just sit there until the scoop is bonded, and then they cant move. Sorry for the dumb questions, I just have not seen this in person, and I know it makes so much more sence to you because you have done it already. I'll be in the same boat someday explaining it to someone else.

Can I ask one more thing. Can you get a pic of it from the front looking at the car from the drivers front quarter, I want to see how much the front edge of the scoop rises up. I love the look but I want to be sure the scoop looks wide enough, I have seen some "home jobs" that are too narrow and it just does nto look right onthe hood.


Thanks again and I can't wait to see it all done.

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 05-24-2011).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #713, 05-25-2011 03:26 AM
      Hi Rob,

The thickness of the hood vent is roughly the same as the upper skin of the hood. There is a gap between the bottom of the upper skin and the top of the lower skin (or sub structure). The gap is about 1/16" to 3/32" thick and has factory bonding cement holding the top and bottom of the hood together. The cement is not spread across both surfaces 100% but it was squeezed out of a nozzle in a semi random pattern. If you look at the picture below you can see that the cement was run front to rear in the area I am placing the bonding strip. I did not want to try and dig out the cement to put in the bonding strip so I just notched the bonding strip to fit around the areas of cement. I did put the bonding strips between the top and bottom skin where the bottom skin was along the edge of the cutout. However along the sides and rear of the cutout there is mostly just top skin and not much substructure up tight near the top skin. In those areas the bonding strips are very important to keep the edge of the hood vent and the upper hood skin aligned properly. I used screws with nuts to clamp the bonding strips to both the hood and the scoop. I took my time and bonded one strip at a time. The most time consuming was gluing nuts to the underside of the bonding strips for the screws that needed to be installed after I could not get to the bottom of the hood vent. (those nuts that had no access after the vent was in place) I received a message back from Paul that he normally just uses wood type screws that do not need a nut. All screws are removed after the hood vent is bonded in place and allowed to cure fully. I am now in the process of grinding away the hood and vent skin along the seam so I can fill it and start sanding. I cannot get a picture from the driver's side as there is no room in the garage for that right now. I will take some pics from the passenger side and hopefully it will help you see what you are looking for.

The belt sander is not being used on the car...

Charlie





















qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #714, 05-25-2011 11:16 AM
      Yep, thats what I needed. I just contacted Paul and started the process of getting one. Thanks again for the time, can't wait to see it all done.

Rob


Tha Driver MSG #715, 06-07-2011 12:47 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:

Charlie,
Thanks for the info. I think I get it now. I was unaware of the bonding strips, and I get that you need them because of the diff in the thickness of the upper and the scoop. That makes sense. Do you just place them in between the two skins? Do you have to force them in, or do they just fit in between them? Is it the screws that hold them in place too, or do they just sit there until the scoop is bonded, and then they cant move. Sorry for the dumb questions, I just have not seen this in person, and I know it makes so much more sence to you because you have done it already. I'll be in the same boat someday explaining it to someone else.
Rob



Hi all,
I was just made aware of my hood scoop added as progress in this thread. Looks good Charlie.
What I use is sheetrock screws or sometimes sheetmetal screws (when I need shorter ones). I drill 1/8" holes in the top skin & scoop, & let the sheetrock screws make their own threads in the bonding strips - and yes you want bonding strips all the way around the scoop. As Charlie mentioned, there is usually a space between the original inner & skin pieces that allow you to slide the bonding strips between them. I use a cutoff wheel on a die grinder to rough up the areas (& cut out some of the original bonding glue if needed) I can't get to to grind with the 24 grit.
And yes I recommend cutting ONLY the area needed to drop the scoop in. With the original scoop, that was a pretty large area. With this one, just the small area in front of the "trunk" seal area.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts


88GTS (avanvuuren@shaw.ca) MSG #716, 06-07-2011 07:53 PM
      Hey Charlie or Paul,

Just to make this write-up of the hood vent install complete, can you please list the glue and filler that you should use for this job.

Thanks, André


Tha Driver MSG #717, 06-07-2011 10:37 PM
      'Vette panel adhesive/filler.
http://gafieroclub.org/bbs/index.php?topic=469.0
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #718, 06-17-2011 01:16 AM
      Got a lot of other things tugging at me right now but I was able to get out to the garage tonight and do some more sanding. I think it is ready to start applying the SMC panel adhesive/filler. I will be doing it in several layers to see if I can catch any bubbles before they become a problem...

Charlie




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #719, 06-17-2011 02:07 AM
      A little while later...



qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #720, 06-18-2011 10:48 PM
      sent payment off last week, should have mine next week. Can't wait to start. Have the hood already prep'd in the garage.

Rob


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #721, 06-26-2011 12:47 AM
      how it going?

Started my build thread.

Sent you a PM

Rob


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #722, 06-26-2011 01:10 AM
      Hey Rob,

It's goin but slow. The temps are reaching 113 on a daily basis now and it is hard to do any sanding without dripping sweat all over the hood... . I will be out of the country for a couple of weeks and then concentrating on work for another couple of weeks before I can get some more "quality" time on the project. Good luck on yours, I think you will like it. I'll post a pic tomorrow (when I can get to the camera) to show you how far along mine is. Very close to the Epoxy primer stage. Then some filler or Bondo.

Charlie




Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #723, 06-26-2011 08:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

A little while later...



Fly much?


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #724, 06-27-2011 02:52 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Fly much?


Lol, When I was still living with my father he mentioned that the Jepp charts made great masking paper. So as a tradition I save all my old ones for the same. I fly but not as much as I should.

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #725, 08-03-2011 11:20 PM
      It still lives, just need to get a little cooler temps to actually get something done on it...

Charlie



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJtfKPIY8Qc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86KOfn4rto


Patrick (mnofony@yahoo.com) MSG #726, 09-11-2011 11:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I wanted to share a new tool for removing the roof panel from our cars...

Here are a couple of pictures:
This is what the tool looked like next to the glass. The little tab was under the edge of the roof panel.


This is how the tool was following along under the edge of the panel.


These are the tools used to make the tool. the hose clamp was the material. the file to sharpen the edges before bending the tab.




A "+" for you. Great tip, I used it today. Thanks!


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #727, 09-12-2011 01:03 AM
      Hey Patrick,

Thank you and + back atcha!

Glad it helped. That windshield seal glue can be a real pita...

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 09-12-2011).]

Patrick (mnofony@yahoo.com) MSG #728, 09-12-2011 02:26 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

That windshield seal glue can be a real pita...



Charlie, I really appreciated your tip because I was having a heck of a time getting the leading edge of the roof to let go all along the top of the windshield. Your idea for the "tool" worked very well. I was pretty happy getting the sunroof off my parts car (for a swap) without cracking the pillars.

Thanks again!



Fiero2m8 MSG #729, 09-12-2011 11:33 PM
      Ok Charlie, need an update here as September is hopefully a little cooler



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #730, 09-13-2011 03:42 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero2m8:

Ok Charlie, need an update here as September is hopefully a little cooler



Last week it was 110 and over the weekend it has started cooling off a little. It was less than 100 degrees today. Yes, if it was not for work this month I would be spending much more time on the car. After installing the hood vent and getting the seam filled pretty well I tipped the hood over and started sanding all the original black paint off. I wanted to just score it a bit and primer over it but I got carried away and now it is almost done being sanded but I spent way too much time on it. Once I get it in for primer I will start on the roof skin/A-pillars and then move to the deck-lid. That should complete most of the really badly sun damaged parts. The rest should not take nearly as much labor for a decent paint job. The only other major thing I need to do is the front end bushings. They are not too bad now because of the low mileage but I suspect they will crumble apart pretty quickly once I start driving it. While I'm at it I guess it will need some lowering springs just to level the car out. Getting closer but I doubt it will be painted and driving until after Jan of next year...

Charlie




Letsbuildanexotic MSG #731, 09-21-2011 04:02 PM
      Hey Snoopy, what's up? I'm the guy you gave your old 4.0L to (still got it), I didn't get a chance to use it, after analyzing the swap it was a bit on the pricey side for me, so I went with a 4.9L. Wanted to see how your project was going, looks like you got a bit farther since the last time I saw it. Stay in touch, I'd like to see it when your done and hopefully mine will be up in running soon as well.

Take care,

Chris


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #732, 09-23-2011 03:20 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Letsbuildanexotic:

Hey Snoopy, what's up? I'm the guy you gave your old 4.0L to (still got it), I didn't get a chance to use it, after analyzing the swap it was a bit on the pricey side for me, so I went with a 4.9L. Wanted to see how your project was going, looks like you got a bit farther since the last time I saw it. Stay in touch, I'd like to see it when your done and hopefully mine will be up in running soon as well.

Take care,

Chris
Hi Chris, I don't blame you. That's a lot of moving parts in the N* engine. From what I read, the 4.9 is a great engine to install and not nearly as complex or costly to setup. How far along are you with the swap? Have you already got it on the road? My car would likely be driving already if I had not decided to do the body swap too. I'll keep in touch and hope to be going on drives again soon.

Charlie





Letsbuildanexotic MSG #733, 09-23-2011 12:07 PM
      Everything is mounted and the car is coming down on the cradle for it's first fit test by hell or by high water TODAY! Wiring is 90% done, I had to rebuild my transmission, that's done, the engine still needs a rebuild but does run, so I'm gonna wire her up, fire her off, and work out all the electrical bugs before I rebuild it. I'm horrible with pictures but if I remember I'll snap some pics and post them somewhere, maybe a mini build thread or something. I'll keep ya posted, I have to run your way twice to green up the engine (I always green up my engines all in one shot, ride to phoenix and back twice is over 500 miles).

Take care,

Chris


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #734, 02-20-2012 05:26 PM
      Just a bump, temps are nice here and I've managed to switch to a better schedule. Hoping for progress in March.

Charlie


Bloozberry MSG #735, 02-20-2012 08:13 PM
      March? There's another 9 days in Feb... let's see some progress!

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #736, 02-22-2012 01:25 AM
      That's the problem with sanding. It takes a long time to show a little progress.... lol

Charlie


GSXRBOBBY (robertmanker@yahoo.com) MSG #737, 03-07-2012 01:30 AM
      Glad to see you still going on your project!

Bloozberry MSG #738, 03-31-2012 09:20 AM
      I took a week off to visit my brother in Phoenix the week before last and tee'd it up to visit Charlie while I was there. (I even brought some Canadian snow along with me.) Some of the first words he spoke upon my arrival were that there's nothing like expecting visitors to make you clean up your shop! His garage was spotless. His car looks awesome, sounds great, and you can tell by the attention to small details everywhere that this car is simply going to rock once it's finished.



It was a pleasure to meet you Charlie... now get back to work!


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #739, 04-01-2012 02:51 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GSXRBOBBY:

Glad to see you still going on your project!

Hi Bobby,

Thanks,

I hope all is going well with you and yours!

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #740, 04-01-2012 02:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

I took a week off to visit my brother in Phoenix the week before last and tee'd it up to visit Charlie while I was there. (I even brought some Canadian snow along with me.) Some of the first words he spoke upon my arrival were that there's nothing like expecting visitors to make you clean up your shop! His garage was spotless. His car looks awesome, sounds great, and you can tell by the attention to small details everywhere that this car is simply going to rock once it's finished.



It was a pleasure to meet you Charlie... now get back to work!


Thank you for the Kind words Dave! It was great meeting you and your family. And yes, thank you for providing incentive to dust off the project and getting me inspired to get-r-done! I decided to start with extending the wires from the doors to the body... should be fun.

Weather wise, it was nice and warm today. I think it was around 90 degrees and I was happy to see that the air conditioning still works in the house...

Charlie


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #741, 04-26-2012 01:29 AM
      I'm giving up.... I mean I'm giving in... I'm getting some help with the sanding so my project will actually have a body on it before I croak.... Hopefully updates soon.

Charlie


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #742, 05-10-2012 10:44 PM
      I just posted this in the mall:

 
quote
I finally gave in and sent my body parts to a guy to have them prepped and painted so I can actually drive and tune my 8 year garage queen with the Shelby Aurora engine in it...
Most of my parts are in decent shape with the exception of the wing stands and the right (passenger) outer door skin. I am hoping to get these parts from someone within a week or so and if possible (I know it's a long shot) locally...
The Body I am using is an 86GT but I am pretty sure the parts can be from an 87 or 88GT also... If anyone can help out please post or PM what you have and what you want for them... Thank you very much!

Charlie


If anyone can help with two nice wing-stands and a right door skin for an 86-88GT it would be much appreciated! These parts will be repainted so only the integrity of the parts is important.

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-10-2012).]

pavo_roddy MSG #743, 05-15-2012 02:56 PM
      HI all

How big is the 4.0 Olds Aurora engine? Is it bigger or smaller than a 3.4 DOHC?

Thanx all,

Air-eek



Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #744, 05-15-2012 03:37 PM
      Bigger. It has slightly wider heads on a wider bank angle and is longer as well.

It is lighter than the 3.4, though.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 05-15-2012).]

pavo_roddy MSG #745, 05-15-2012 03:39 PM
      HI all

Thanx, though I was hoping it actually may have been smaller..

Thanx all!!

Ear-ick


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #746, 05-17-2012 09:57 PM
      The Lambo door hinges were a great idea and they work fine until I tried to fit the fenders. Some time consuming modifications will be required just to maybe get lucky and have them work.
The guy that made them has since made a new design that will fit better out of the box. Beta testing can be a biatch sometimes...

Charlie


Passenger side very close to done now. Lots of material removed from the hinge arm but it still looks and feels strong enough. This may work yet.. Still have to do the drivers side... At least another couple of days for that...

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 05-19-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #747, 05-24-2012 11:43 AM
      Some pics of the Lambo door hinge modifications and wire extensions.

Front to rear of the passenger side lambo door hinge. It's not easy to see but there is very little clearance between the gas struts and the hinge arm.


Notice the nuts used as spacers to move the gas struts further away from the hinge arm. These are the crux of the problem. The struts push the fender outward once the door is opened by this amount...




I asked Jessie about this and he recommended shaving the hinge arm to give more room between the gas struts and the hinge arm. below are examples of what I did to both hinges. After shaving the hinge arm I was able to remove all the nut spacers.. Now the gas struts just touch the fender when the door is swung fully open.




Once that was done it was apparent that the top edge of the hinge body also hit the fender just before the door was fully swung outward... More grinding...







A couple of pics of the mock up while modifying the door hinges and fitting the fender and door skins, all of which require modification.







The lambo door hinges require extending the wires to the various electric options if installed. A manual door has two wires for the ajar light switch. My doors now have pw, pl and pm. That makes 13 wires that needed a 10" extension. The first pic is of the passenger side wire extensions before soldering them to the door side of the wires. The next pic shows how much extra wire is hanging from the door with extensions... The last pic is of the driver's side wire extensions. I figure that they are going to be used a lot more so I got high strand count, very flexible wire to do this side. Once those are soldered in I will start looking into mounting the temp sensor and routing power to the self dimming mirror with temp and compass.







Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #748, 06-01-2012 12:04 PM
      1.5" Held drop spindles are on order. I am hoping I can adapt the 12" brakes to work without too much trouble. The additional width from using the rear bearing setup might cause issues with spacing... I'll report what I find.
The body parts are pretty much prepped (from what I am told) and are awaiting a slot in the painter's schedule. It could be up to 6 weeks to get them all in and out of the paint booth with fitting parts in between other projects... That should give me plenty of time to get the drop spindles installed and working...

Charlie


Bloozberry MSG #749, 06-02-2012 06:57 AM
      The rear bearing assemblies on the front of HT's drop spindles push the wheel mounting flange 4.6mm further out.

topcat (tconey01@att.net) MSG #750, 06-02-2012 08:19 AM
      I had similar fit issues with those same hinges - i decided to go back to stock instead of the modifying to the hinges and or fenders.

 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

The Lambo door hinges were a great idea and they work fine until I tried to fit the fenders. Some time consuming modifications will be required just to maybe get lucky and have them work.
The guy that made them has since made a new design that will fit better out of the box. Beta testing can be a biatch sometimes...

Charlie


Passenger side very close to done now. Lots of material removed from the hinge arm but it still looks and feels strong enough. This may work yet.. Still have to do the drivers side... At least another couple of days for that...





cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #751, 06-02-2012 09:34 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

The rear bearing assemblies on the front of HT's drop spindles push the wheel mounting flange 4.6mm further out.


Thank you Dave! I read that in another thread you posted in plus that the C4 hats were actually thinner than the stock hats so the total was under 4mm a side. (since I'm running the C4 rotors). Are you using the 12" brakes also and did you have any caliper slider limit issues or is your setup different regarding brake caliper brackets etc? On the front of mine I am using the dogbone looking bracket with countersunk bolts that move the caliper straight out from center with no up or down offset. I should have the spindles in a week and I can mock up the system before installing but I am not confident that it will all work without some modifications. I should have asked Richard at HT if I can simply use my stock 88 front hubs as they only have 70K on them. My guess is that the bolt pattern will be different from the rear but I really have no idea...
I hope all is well up North.

Charlie



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #752, 06-02-2012 09:39 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by topcat:

I had similar fit issues with those same hinges - i decided to go back to stock instead of the modifying to the hinges and or fenders.


Yep, it was a bit of a shock especially after looking at the pictures they were showing of cars that appeared to have them installed and working well... That would be why I went ahead and bought them. Jessie explained the changes to the new design and it sounds like he addressed all the issues I ran into... I like the look and the personality they give our cars so I hope the new design does well...

Charlie




Bloozberry MSG #753, 06-02-2012 08:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
Are you using the 12" brakes also


Yes.

 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
... and did you have any caliper slider limit issues


No, but it's very close on one side.

 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
...is your setup different regarding brake caliper brackets etc?


I bought the Fiero Addiction brackets which clock the calipers somewhat, but as it turns out, the HT '88 drop spindles are clocked in the opposite dierction by about the same amount so the calipers now sit roughly at the 9 o'clock position on the RH side of the car and at the 3 o'clock when looking at the LH side.



 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:
I should have asked Richard at HT if I can simply use my stock 88 front hubs as they only have 70K on them. My guess is that the bolt pattern will be different from the rear but I really have no idea.


I think you're right about that... they have different bolt patterns. Besides, I think it best to ditch the stock '88 wheel bearing assemblies anyway... too hard to find and too expensive if you do.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #754, 06-03-2012 05:55 PM
      Thank you Dave. It sounds like they will work ok.

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 06-03-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #755, 06-08-2012 02:20 AM
      A package showed up at the door...


1.5" Drop spindles!




This ought to be fun...

Charlie


fieroguru MSG #756, 06-08-2012 06:42 AM
      Looking good! Can you take a picture of the top side (they are upside down in the pics)?


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #757, 06-08-2012 11:19 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Looking good! Can you take a picture of the top side (they are upside down in the pics)?


I hope this is what you're looking for...










Charlie




Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #758, 06-08-2012 11:54 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Looking good! Can you take a picture of the top side (they are upside down in the pics)?


Judging by the position of the steering arm, I'd say it was right side up in the first photos.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #759, 06-08-2012 12:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Judging by the position of the steering arm, I'd say it was right side up in the first photos.
Lol, made me look!

I went back up to Blooze's photo since his is installed and it appears that these 5 pics are in the upright orientation...

Charlie




Bloozberry MSG #760, 06-08-2012 09:02 PM
      You have it right Charlie. The steering arm hole for the ball joint is tapered so it gets larger towards the bottom side.

Just a note about those Allen head cap screws... if I were you, I'd change them out for hex head bolts. Years from now when you go to replace your first bearing assembly, you stand less of a chance of stripping the head of a hex head bolt than the very small surface area of an Allen key socket, especially given the amount of torque those fasteners get.


fieroguru MSG #761, 06-09-2012 08:04 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

I hope this is what you're looking for...



Those are perfect! Thanks!

I am playing around with designing my own dropped spindles for the 88 and curious how they handled the upper ball joint area as it ends up going some what behind the wheel bearing. Still torn on the bearing to use... I could design them to keep the wheel flange with the right offset with the rear wheel bearing, then clock the bolt pattern on the upright to use the 88 front bearing with a supplied spacer... go with a larger overall bearing in the 115 or 4 1/2 or 4 3/4 pattern, however the larger the bearing is, the more the upper ball joint is behind it.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #762, 06-17-2012 02:27 PM
      Well, I got the front end apart, swapped in the black Prothane Poly Bushings with the special grease squishing out everywhere... I also replaced the sway-bar bushings with the black poly too. The upper and lower Ball Joints were replaced with Rodney's stock replacements. I picked up Rodney's zero lash end links for the front sway-bar and after I get the knuckle situation sorted out I'll be installing those too. The HT knuckles look gorgeous out of the box but this particular set has a weird anomaly, the tie-rod tapers are upside down. Either these are for a different but similar type of car or they just got welded on with the wide part of the taper on top and the skinny part on the bottom. I'll get with Richard at HT and see if he won't swap me for a pair that are in the correct orientation. So for now, I'll be putting the stock knuckles back on the car and move it out of the way while I wait for shipping to take place...

Charlie


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #763, 06-18-2012 06:19 PM
      The drop spindles are on their way back to HT and they have been very nice and apologetic about the mix up. If all goes well They should be mounted in a week or two and all the front end nutz and boltz torqued to their correct values.

Charlie


Bloozberry MSG #764, 06-18-2012 06:55 PM
      It's nice to see a company that takes ownership in the quality of its products when things go wrong.

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #765, 06-21-2012 09:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

It's nice to see a company that takes ownership in the quality of its products when things go wrong.


yea, except things "go wrong" with them a lot. I ordered a bunch of parts from them and i'm stll "working it out" with Richard. I wish their quality control was better. I sure hope my dropped spindles are correct. I'll break them out of the box tomorrow and check.

I ordered the tubular UCA/LCA w/ QA1 coilover and the dropped spindles, and 13" brake kit. Mine was also PC in the silver. Love the pics of the assembled front end.

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 06-21-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #766, 06-22-2012 01:33 AM
      Richard knew what I was talking about when I was describing the issues I had and I feel confident that the replacements will work fine. They should arrive on Wednesday so it wont be long before I can try them out.

Charlie


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #767, 06-22-2012 11:16 AM
      HOLY CRAP!!!!!! I think mine are the same as yours. when I put mine in the same position as you show yours, the hole is larger on top, and smaller on the bottom, and this is wrong...... right?

SOB, now I have to have them fix this too. Control Arms, Brake rotors, missing parts and now this. NOT HAPPY.

So glad I saw this post, and checked before I took the front end apart.

Rob


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #768, 06-23-2012 01:41 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:

HOLY CRAP!!!!!! I think mine are the same as yours. when I put mine in the same position as you show yours, the hole is larger on top, and smaller on the bottom, and this is wrong...... right?

SOB, now I have to have them fix this too. Control Arms, Brake rotors, missing parts and now this. NOT HAPPY.

So glad I saw this post, and checked before I took the front end apart.

Rob
I'm sorry Rob but yes that's incorrect and you'll need to have them replaced...

Charlie



qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #769, 06-23-2012 11:05 PM
      Yea, confirmed it today. Took them over to a buddy who has a set and he got his set last year. They are the same except that the steering ball joint taper's are 180 out from each other. I will send Richard some pics on Monday and see how long it will take to get the new ones.

Rob


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #770, 07-01-2012 09:26 PM
      Richard at HT was very helpful and sent the replacement drop spindles out the same day as my returns showed up at his shop. The replacements looked great and there was only one small issue that was easily remedied with getting the passenger side tie-rod tapered stud secured. As mentioned earlier I purchased Rodney's "Zero Lash sway-bar end links" (a thing of beauty they are...) and once I had them mounted I found several clearance issues. Because Rodney's end links are designed for stock steering knuckles and not for HT's drop spindles they were too short by just over an inch. Luckily I figured this out before installing the wheels. At full extension and with the end links providing 5" of separation between the LCA and the swing arm, the steering arm of the HT knuckle is at the same height as the ball joint of the zero lash end link. This interference causes a loss of just over a 1/4 turn of steering wheel rotation from the normal stop. Another issue was that the sway-bar was low enough to interfere with the tie-rod (again with the suspension in full extension) also causing less turn radius. By extending the zero lash end links by 1 and 3/16" both issues will no longer be a problem. There will likely still be a very minor contact of the knuckle steering arm and the rod of the end link just as the wheel is turned to its limit. With the sway-bar raised it will no longer come into contact with the tie-rod... I took both front springs out and spent about an hour running the suspension up and down checking for other possible issues but found none. I also took the time to relocate the brake line clamps on the UCA to reduce stresses. Using the dog-bone shaped 12" brake adapters with the HT drop spindles takes every mm of available stock flexible brake line, especially on the passenger side. Using the offset 12" brake adapters like Blooz did on his car raises the caliper and I suspect allows using the stock brake line clamp position on the UCA.

Charlie


HT 1.5" drop spindle installed (note that the sway-bar end links are not installed yet...)


Picture after I removed the springs and was checking for any other interference.

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 07-01-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #771, 07-10-2012 11:56 PM
      Rodney was willing to make me zero-lash swaybar endlinks any length I needed but as it turned out he happened to have just the right length already made up. I received them Saturday but just now got the time and a willingness to work in the garage when it is 114 outside... The great news is that extending the links from 5" to 6 and 3/16" was enough to take care of both interference issues I was having at full extension of the front suspension. Now, just as I reach full steering rack limit, the steering arm of the knuckle just touches the swaybar endlink and since this only happens at max travel I don't think it will ever create any issues while driving. The longer endlinks also raised the swaybar high enough above the tierod that there is no longer any chance of interference there either. So, it took a couple of tries to get it right but at this point it looks like the 1.5" HT drop spindles will be quite the success. (crossing fingers...) While I had the springs out checking clearances, I fully compressed each side with the wheels mounted and the top of the tire to the top of the wheel well was approximately 1". Keeping in mind that I accidentally ordered tires that ended up being about 1/2" less diameter than stock this all appears to have worked out very well. The back is slightly higher than the front now so a little adjusting of the coil-over setup will be necessary to level it all out... I ended up having to find another forward roof panel as the original one ended up cracking at the usual spot near the top of the driver's side A-pillar. I was very fortunate in that I sourced another roof panel and was only charged $12.93 for it. (they priced it the same as a headliner at the pick-n-pull yard... sweet!) It had a surface crack at the top of the A-pillar on each side but the cracks were not structural like it was on my original roof. I used SMC Panel Adhesive an some cut up fiberglass to repair 4 different spots and this "new" roof panel is ready for epoxy and feather fill primer.

The pics below are of the endlinks and the clearance issues that are fixed...

The original 5" endlinks vs the 6 and 3/16" endlinks


No interference between the swaybar and tierod anymore... (including the dust boot)


Installed 6 and 3/16" zero-lash swaybar endlink (by Rodney Dickman)


Knuckle steering arm just touches the endlink at full travel and full extension... (as the suspension raises, the clearance quickly gets bigger)


Another shot of the knuckle steering arm vs the swaybar endlink


Charlie




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #772, 07-26-2012 02:13 PM
      quickie update:

The painter told me that he wants to wait until October to paint the body parts because of the hot temps... He is hoping to get a better paint job by painting when it is 90 degrees or less.. I cant blame him and since he is doing it for cost, I won't complain... Lol.

charlie


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #773, 10-14-2012 06:54 PM
      Charlie...It's October...What's up?

Bob


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #774, 10-18-2012 09:35 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

Charlie...It's October...What's up?

Bob
Would you believe it got pushed back to November? All parts are sanded and primed but will need a final touch up before paint. If it gets pushed back any further I may have to get out my wallet....

Charlie




Bloozberry MSG #775, 10-18-2012 01:57 PM
      Forget your wallet Charlie, you have to be worried about snow tires by the time November rolls around. Hey, I was there in March when Sedona got 6" of the white stuff, so it's possible! I can set you up with a good pair of Blizzaks to get you home if you need.

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #776, 10-19-2012 12:58 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

Forget your wallet Charlie, you have to be worried about snow tires by the time November rolls around. Hey, I was there in March when Sedona got 6" of the white stuff, so it's possible! I can set you up with a good pair of Blizzaks to get you home if you need.
lol, ok Dave, I'll call you if it comes to that.

Charlie




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #777, 11-27-2012 12:19 PM
      latest update. I should know on Thursday if we can at least get the rear clip and the roof painted next week. That way I can get started on putting some clothes back on the car.

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 11-27-2012).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #778, 12-05-2012 10:51 PM
      I was at the paint shop sanding feverishly on the rear clip and roof sections today. They should be painted by tomorrow afternoon. I was going to get the rear deck lid done too but I found that it was not completely prepped yet. I'll be trying to get it ready but i'm doubtful I can get it done in time. Unfortunately we won't get it all painted this week but at least I can get the roof on and a windshield installed in the meantime.

Charlie


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #779, 12-06-2012 06:46 AM
     

Bob


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #780, 12-08-2012 01:20 AM
      I agree Bob! I am excited to see this thing creeping closer to getting done...

The first two pictures are of the painted rear fastback clip and the roof section sitting on the car. The third is of the hood that I found still needed just a little more filler...

Charlie









Bloozberry MSG #781, 12-08-2012 08:06 PM
      Lookin good there Charlie! I must admit I don't recall seeing any body panels when I visited you in March. It was a surprise for me to see these latest pictures with the white panels... looks good and will be cooler under the Phoenix sun. Maybe I missed it, but is it a pure white or does it have pearls or metal flake in it?

mitchjl22 (mitchjl22@gmail.com) MSG #782, 12-09-2012 01:49 AM
      I found an aurora in a pick apart yard today with the drivetrain virtually untouched. I can get it all for like $300, but is it worth it? I'm going to go see if it runs tomorrow. This looks like a great swap. How hard is the wiring harness to run? Does it need to be custom made, like the 3800 swap? The mounts look very good too. Have you got yours in and running yet? I skimmed the 20 pages. It looks nice!

motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #783, 12-09-2012 08:58 AM
      Wow, is that color I see? lookin' good.

Joe


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #784, 12-10-2012 03:29 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

Lookin good there Charlie! I must admit I don't recall seeing any body panels when I visited you in March. It was a surprise for me to see these latest pictures with the white panels... looks good and will be cooler under the Phoenix sun. Maybe I missed it, but is it a pure white or does it have pearls or metal flake in it?


Thank you Dave!

All the panels were here in March but they were stashed all over the property. The paint is a single stage urethane (I hope I said that correctly) and the color is supposed to be the same as the white used on the stock 1988 Fiero. If I am lucky, we will get the rest painted in the next couple of months...

Charlie


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #785, 12-10-2012 03:49 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mitchjl22:

I found an aurora in a pick apart yard today with the drivetrain virtually untouched. I can get it all for like $300, but is it worth it? I'm going to go see if it runs tomorrow. This looks like a great swap. How hard is the wiring harness to run? Does it need to be custom made, like the 3800 swap? The mounts look very good too. Have you got yours in and running yet? I skimmed the 20 pages. It looks nice!
Thank you Mitch,

I used the Holley 950 commander and a prefabbed wire harness from chrfab.com. I still had to do a lot of splicing to shorten the wires to the correct length. It was pretty time consuming but eventually you get it done. It was definitely not plug and play... That was several years ago. Now there are much better after market computers available and I suspect there may now be people who can hack the stock Aurora computer so it will run the Aurora motor in a Fiero.

My motor runs. But, it is not tuned yet and with the Holley 950, that can be a real pita. I would suggest getting one of the newer computers that have "self tuning" capabilities.

Charlie


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #786, 12-10-2012 03:56 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:

Wow, is that color I see? lookin' good.

Joe
Hi Joe,

Yes, finally! Thank you.

Charlie




RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #787, 12-10-2012 07:12 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Originally posted by mitchjl22:

I found an aurora in a pick apart yard today with the drivetrain virtually untouched. I can get it all for like $300, but is it worth it? I'm going to go see if it runs tomorrow. This looks like a great swap. How hard is the wiring harness to run? Does it need to be custom made, like the 3800 swap? The mounts look very good too. Have you got yours in and running yet? I skimmed the 20 pages. It looks nice! Thank you Mitch,

I used the Holley 950 commander and a prefabbed wire harness from chrfab.com. I still had to do a lot of splicing to shorten the wires to the correct length. It was pretty time consuming but eventually you get it done. It was definitely not plug and play... That was several years ago. Now there are much better after market computers available and I suspect there may now be people who can hack the stock Aurora computer so it will run the Aurora motor in a Fiero.

My motor runs. But, it is not tuned yet and with the Holley 950, that can be a real pita. I would suggest getting one of the newer computers that have "self tuning" capabilities.

Charlie


Mine's running on the stock computer (no mods). Not throwing any codes, but it's not driveable yet, either. My plans are to add the body controller at a future date. And yes, hopefully someone cracks (or cracked) the darned thing.

Bob

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 12-10-2012).]

IXSLR8 (david@kerrworks.com) MSG #788, 12-27-2012 01:04 AM
      Charlie,

I'm not sure if you were aware that there was a fellow that created an independent program to self-tune the Holley 950 (the one you have). I'm not sure if he's still selling the program since the new Holley 950 has the built in self tuning software. The program was dirt cheap(I think I paid $15 for it in May 2011) and worked well according to those that have used it. I haven't used it yet as I've been running on the LS1 computer with the Shelby program though I have bugs still to work out.

The program is called: Pro 950 Auto tune software.
The guy that created it is named Tom and his email address is/was: tomzeect@netscape.net
It runs on Windows 2000, XP and Vista.

Westers up in Canada has the Aurora running on the stock GM computers.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #789, 12-29-2012 03:13 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by IXSLR8:

Charlie,

I'm not sure if you were aware that there was a fellow that created an independent program to self-tune the Holley 950 (the one you have). I'm not sure if he's still selling the program since the new Holley 950 has the built in self tuning software. The program was dirt cheap(I think I paid $15 for it in May 2011) and worked well according to those that have used it. I haven't used it yet as I've been running on the LS1 computer with the Shelby program though I have bugs still to work out.

The program is called: Pro 950 Auto tune software.
The guy that created it is named Tom and his email address is/was: tomzeect@netscape.net
It runs on Windows 2000, XP and Vista.

Westers up in Canada has the Aurora running on the stock GM computers.


Thank you,

I have looked into at least 2 different self-tuner programs for the H950 and I may have actually paid the $15. It was several years ago so I will have to email Tom and see if it was his program I bought... Now that I have a new laptop I may give it a try once I get the body on...

Happy New Years everyone!

Charlie




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #790, 01-26-2013 09:51 PM
      More teaser shots: I was looking to see if the rear lights looked good with the white body color. I like it so far.

Also, here is the current idle exhaust note. It sounds a little different now, a little quieter... youtube

Charlie






[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 01-26-2013).]

IXSLR8 (david@kerrworks.com) MSG #791, 01-27-2013 12:01 AM
      Nice. I have always wanted a white fastback. That will be a beautiful ride when your finished.


RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #792, 01-27-2013 10:53 AM
      Looks and sounds good. Must be nice to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Can't imagine what you will do when it's done.

Bob


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #793, 01-27-2013 11:18 PM
      Thanks guys, I chose white because of the summer heat but I think I will like it. I am not sure what I will do when its done Bob. I hope it is reasonably reliable... lol

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 01-27-2013).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #794, 01-28-2013 10:33 AM
      What mufflers are those?

Edit: Found info:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...L/000017-4.html#p146
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../000017-12.html#p475

Do you have flex couplings between the pipes hung from the powertrain and the mufflers mounted to the body?

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-28-2013).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #795, 01-29-2013 07:38 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

What mufflers are those?

Edit: Found info:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...L/000017-4.html#p146
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../000017-12.html#p475

Do you have flex couplings between the pipes hung from the powertrain and the mufflers mounted to the body?

Hi Will,
i was advised against using the traditional flex coupling because they apparently fatigue rather quickly. (What I was told by a reputable exhaust and performance car builder). It was suggested that I use the ball and socket system so I had an exhaust shop swedge some pieces of pipe with ball ends and then I custom made the rest. The flex joints I made for each side are shown in the pictures below.

Charlie




[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 01-29-2013).]

Will (william.lucke@gmail.com) MSG #796, 01-29-2013 10:13 AM
      Knew you had to have something. Interesting that he thinks they fatigue quickly. My G/F's 2002 Audi A6 has flex couplings in the exhaust from the factory. I suspect they're fine when used within their limits.

I have one on my Northstar's X-pipe exhaust, but the only motion it sees is differential expansion between the exhaust pipes and the engine block. I'll see how long it lasts.


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #797, 01-30-2013 12:47 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

Knew you had to have something. Interesting that he thinks they fatigue quickly. My G/F's 2002 Audi A6 has flex couplings in the exhaust from the factory. I suspect they're fine when used within their limits.

I have one on my Northstar's X-pipe exhaust, but the only motion it sees is differential expansion between the exhaust pipes and the engine block. I'll see how long it lasts.


My guess is that I probably mentioned that I expect the possibility of pretty large deviations considering the position of the pipes, their distance from center line and the limited amount of space available to install any sort of flexible joint. In normal applications I assume the conventional flex joint with braided steel around it is more than enough.

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 01-30-2013).]

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #798, 02-06-2013 01:44 PM
      I'm finding that the hard part is figuring out where all the parts go after having this thing apart so long. I got the rear clip bolted down finally and I am waiting on one part before I can "glue" the roof panel down with butyl rope. I managed to push the rear clip back about 1/8" inch which allows me to do the same with the door panels. This was required because of the way the door hinges work. I was able to mock up the body parts and for the most part it looks pretty good for a Fiero. I found that I need to lower the left muffler about 1/4" to match the right. That way they should look pretty even from the rear. I need to fix the normal crack in the door skin just above the mirror cutout, sand the hood and a couple other little odds and ends and then it should be nearly done. The A/C will likely wait until I am sure it is drivable and I don't think I'll need to drop the cradle for anything else. I bought new door glass and if they look good, I'll install those too before putting the skins on for good. Here she sits, almost looking like a car...

Charlie




cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #799, 04-02-2013 12:05 PM
      Since the yearly training for work is finally over I can get back to work on my Fiero. The passenger door had the common crack at the mirror cutout and I decided it was worth a try to fix it. I think it came out ok, I used some prepreg carbon rod on the back side to support the area front and rear of the crack and I used the evercoat 994 SMC panel adhesive to glue it together. I hope with the carbon it will hold.
Next up I will be installing fieroguru's Lateral Link Relocation Kit and replacing the door glass on both sides.

Charlie






























cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #800, 04-08-2013 03:42 AM
      I finished installing fieroguru's Lateral Link Relocation Kit yesterday evening. It does a fine job of putting the lateral links and trailing links back to where they would be before lowering the car by 1.5".
Below are before and after pictures. This is after the rear was lowered approximately 1.5" inches with a coil-over setup.
Charlie
















Bloozberry MSG #801, 04-08-2013 06:53 AM
      Lookin' good! How many more days before this thing hits the road?

cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #802, 04-08-2013 02:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

Lookin' good! How many more days before this thing hits the road?


Thank you Dave,

Ummmm, I dunno is the truest answer I have. I keep hoping for "this year" but that never seems to happen.

I will try to have it done this year....

I am really enjoying your thread though, very good stuff!

Charlie

[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 04-08-2013).]

RCR (rcrabine@comcast.net) MSG #803, 04-08-2013 06:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:


Thank you Dave,

Ummmm, I dunno is the truest answer I have. I keep hoping for "this year" but that never seems to happen.

I will try to have it done this year....

I am really enjoying your thread though, very good stuff!

Charlie




That sounds like my answer. Looks good. It's been a long journey.

Bob


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #804, 04-10-2013 02:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:


That sounds like my answer. Looks good. It's been a long journey.

Bob
Thank you Bob, yes it has and luckily I've not had too big of life changes so I have been able to keep plugging away at it.

I am looking forward to eventually driving our cars to a meet to swap st