The Official VR6 Engine Swap
Topic started by: bmwguru, Date: 12-16-2007 01:38 PM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000014.html


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #1, 12-16-2007 01:38 PM
      Hi all,
I might be a little premature for this, but I have officially started the physical part of the VR6 engine swap. The last three months were the research portion. What I have found is the pre 1999 manual transmissions have high failure rate. The 24v VR6 from 2003-newer are four times the price to make power with. So, i have settled on a AFP engine from a 2000 VW Jetta with a five speed transmission. These engines aren't cheap. Most wrecking yards want over $2000. for just the engine. I picked up a smashed up Jetta for a little over $2500.00 on ebay....not including $200.00 in gas and tolls to transport it back home.
I do have some concerns that I will address as the swap goes on. I had to wait until we were finished with a 1967 Mercedes 250SL that had been at my shop since March and it finally was done a few days ago. Now I have the extra room needed to do this project. If this project goes well, a TDI swap will be next.
For those of you that don't know what a VR6 is, here is a generic picture of one with the head off.

and here are the teaser pics of the donor car.....



More to come this week.
Dave



Blacktree (m.blacktree@gmail.com) MSG #2, 12-16-2007 01:51 PM
      ALRIGHT!!!

AutoTech (boosted2m6@yahoo.com) MSG #3, 12-16-2007 01:57 PM
      Eh, its a 2.8l and makes 174hp - are planning to mod it or?

WisconsinGT (animationgroup@yahoo.com) MSG #4, 12-16-2007 03:23 PM
      Right on!!!!

Mr.PBody (paniccia008@aol.com) MSG #5, 12-16-2007 03:34 PM
      Well in other threads hes saying 9 seconds in the 1/4... So yeah, it'll be modded, alot... I'll be watching this one dave, thanks for posting the head-off pic, I always wondered what they looked like, its listed as a V6, but the header looks like like an I-6 as does the intake, but the spark plugs are offset. What it is that, like a 15* V?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #6, 12-16-2007 04:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Mr.PBody:

Well in other threads hes saying 9 seconds in the 1/4... So yeah, it'll be modded, alot... I'll be watching this one dave, thanks for posting the head-off pic, I always wondered what they looked like, its listed as a V6, but the header looks like like an I-6 as does the intake, but the spark plugs are offset. What it is that, like a 15* V?


The head intake runner is longer on three cylinders, so in the intake manifold, the runners are two different lengths to compensate for that. Check out wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vr6
Also, the engine is initially going in stock to work out the bugs and ensure that I can get it running like a factory car. The only mods are: port and polish and upgraded software. This was actually done on the donor car prior to my purchase. I will tear down and inspect to be sure it was done and done right, but the shop that did it is well known in the New England area for VW mods.
I figure the hardest parts are going to be the fly by wire throttle, axle adaptation (I'm using the VW trans), and shifter.
After this is done, I am starting the turbo VR6 project to go into this car. I want to make sure that it wil work properly in the stock form before I add 300hp.
Dave


m0sh_man (macantley@suddenlink.net) MSG #7, 12-16-2007 04:59 PM
      looks like you will have plenty of parts to sell, infact arent the rims from those the same bolt pattern as the fiero?

id love to have a spare set of 16" rims for either my fiero or my subaru.

matthew


Formula88 MSG #8, 12-16-2007 05:19 PM
      Cool! This will be a fun swap to watch. You've also got me intrigued by the TDI swap. A TDI Fiero could be a seriously fun little commuter with insane mileage.

sc2m6 (trentspop06@aol.com) MSG #9, 12-16-2007 05:27 PM
      yeah id like a tdi fiero that will do great in raleigh traffic

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #10, 12-16-2007 06:08 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by m0sh_man:

looks like you will have plenty of parts to sell, infact arent the rims from those the same bolt pattern as the fiero?

id love to have a spare set of 16" rims for either my fiero or my subaru.

matthew

Yeah, Hopefully, I'll make my money back and then some on the extra parts.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the Jetta is a 5x112. The Beetle and Audi TT are 5x100. I was thinking of trying to adapt Audi TT brakes on my Fiero, but that is later.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 12-16-2007).]

AutoTech (boosted2m6@yahoo.com) MSG #11, 12-16-2007 10:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


turbo VR6


Nice, and whats the expectations?


Winkie MSG #12, 12-16-2007 11:03 PM
      Glad to see you got the car and are beginning your swap. I'm looking forward to this.

Red mirrors on a blue car. LOL.

Ryan


tjm4fun (tjm4fun@yahoo.com) MSG #13, 12-17-2007 09:09 AM
      Now that's an interesting swap. looking foward to seeing it done.
I just keep looking at the block tho, it has to be longer than a 2.8 v6 tho, and even after reading the link, still looks that way. Narrower, most definately, but longer. I would guess with the tranny tho, overall it is not as wide, as most of the vw's tend to be a bit narrower.
I've looked at quite a few fwd setups and eyeballed them into a fiero, and if I didn';t need to drive the car everyday, I saw a few that looked like fun.... (wife keeps wondering why I keep looking at the fwd highlander 3.3vvt in her car and muttering that might fit...).

You;ve got the background for that type of drivetrain tho, so it makes the most sense to go with what you know. From your other posts, I expect this to be a sweet one of a kind ride when you're done, and hopefully you can make it a good viable swap for others to try, especially those that don't have a shop to work out of. Try to keep that in the back of your mind when doing the swap, but by no means compromise the install if that is not possible.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #14, 12-17-2007 12:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by AutoTech:


Nice, and whats the expectations?


I'd rather not post the expectations at this time. As soon as I mention the number I am shooting for, this thread will be in the trash can. Right now, the engine is going in naturally aspirated. If all goes well, I'll bring it to Carlisle in May. After that, the turbo will be added on, but I'll probably build a second VR6 engine that can handle higher than stock horsepower to use the turbo. That way, I can enjoy driving this one and just do a quick engine swap.
As for the engine being long. It is no longer than an average four cylinder. When I did the initial measurements, the VR6 will fit in with plenty of room to spare.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #15, 12-17-2007 12:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

Yeah, Hopefully, I'll make my money back and then some on the extra parts.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the Jetta is a 5x112. The Beetle and Audi TT are 5x100. I was thinking of trying to adapt Audi TT brakes on my Fiero, but that is later.
Dave



I just looked it up and the Jetta is a 5x100 with the same offset as the Fiero. I may have to see how the rims look on a Fiero....lol



Russ544 MSG #16, 12-17-2007 12:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

Hi all,
I might be a little premature for this, but I have officially started the physical part of the VR6 engine swap.


Awww geeze. not another one of _those_ things. couldn't you do something a little different than everyone else?

I'm looking forward to watching something unique for a change. good work!

Russ544



Fieroseverywhere (caalon777@hotmail.com) MSG #17, 12-17-2007 07:20 PM
      I have a friend with a 01 jetta that will find this thread very interesting. Wheels are the same as fiero. We will both be watching this thread very closely. Nice to see someone do something unique for a change. Its been a while since that has happened with an engine swap. Short of the LS4 thats being done by Darth right now.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 12-17-2007).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #18, 12-17-2007 09:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere:

I have a friend with a 01 jetta that will find this thread very interesting. Wheels are the same as fiero. We will both be watching this thread very closely. Nice to see someone do something unique for a change. Its been a while since that has happened with an engine swap. Short of the LS4 thats being done by Darth right now.


Tell your friend that I'l be parting out the rest of the Jetta, so if he needs any parts, I'll have them. The rest of the body and interior are mint. I'll be posting the parts on vwvortex, thesamba, and ebay.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 12-17-2007).]

Fieroseverywhere (caalon777@hotmail.com) MSG #19, 12-17-2007 09:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

Tell your friend that I'l be parting out the rest of the Jetta, so if he needs any parts, I'll have them. The rest of the body and interior are mint. I'll be posting the parts on vwvortex, thesamba, and ebay.
Dave



He just stopped by but his car is in pretty good shape so there isn't much he can think of at the moment. He has some damage to the passenger fender and drivers door but nothing worth replacing the body panels over. He's may be interested in headliner if the price is right. He said he wants the motor but I told him its spoken for. If anything else comes up he will let me know so I can pass it on to you.

I know someone else that needs a drivers side mirror. She'll have to paint it but at least its in one piece unike the one on her car now.

I on the other hand want the marker lights and at least a little bit of the wiring to them. How much shipped to 97015? We can continue this conversation through PM or e-mail so as to not fill this thread with parts buying. Later

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 12-17-2007).]

tampalinc MSG #20, 12-19-2007 05:21 PM
      I hope this swap goes well, because I really want to see the TDI swap.

AutoTech (boosted2m6@yahoo.com) MSG #21, 12-19-2007 05:34 PM
      I was looking at some force fed VR6's, and they seem to be making some very good numbers.

Should be a very potent swap


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #22, 12-19-2007 06:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by AutoTech:

I was looking at some force fed VR6's, and they seem to be making some very good numbers.

Should be a very potent swap


I'm not too crazy about the supercharged VR6 engines. I'd rather build a nice turbo/alcohol injected/anti-lag engine running upwards of 30lbs of boost.
Anyway, I haven't done much yet except set the Jetta on the spare lift and take inventory of what is left of the car. The Fiero engine should be out early January. We had a sudden rush of people wanting to spend money of their cars for the holiday. Lucky me.
Dave


AutoTech (boosted2m6@yahoo.com) MSG #23, 12-19-2007 07:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


30lbs of boost.



Whats gotta be done to support that?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #24, 12-19-2007 07:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by AutoTech:


Whats gotta be done to support that?


hate to give away our secrets, but there is one BMW running 30lbs on stock internals turning very low 10's.



AutoTech (boosted2m6@yahoo.com) MSG #25, 12-19-2007 08:04 PM
      Thicker head gasket maybe...

fieromadman (j_depies@hotmail.com) MSG #26, 12-20-2007 01:36 AM
      I LOVE the VR-6 engines, smooth as silk powerband, plenty down low, plenty up top, and are fairly easy to get some power out of with basic mods. The 12v have problems making good power N/A though...

Will be keeping an eye on this, and should anything happen to my dads GTI I might know of a place that engine can go

EDIT: Oh yeah, and about the tranny thing, if you put a limited slip in the earlier year ones, or even just do the ARP diff set they can hold up to alot too. It's a stupid rivit design or something like that in the diff that makes them prone to failure.

[This message has been edited by fieromadman (edited 12-20-2007).]

Sleepy (sleepyblt@verizon.net) MSG #27, 12-22-2007 01:29 AM
      Way out in left field on this one, but have you considered using the craddle and suspension? No idea how close they are track wise, nor how the engine sits in relation to the strut towers. Probably creates more problems than it solves, but would take care of the axle challenge and throw in a little modern suspension geometry.

Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #28, 12-22-2007 04:00 AM
      You know I'll be watching this one, too. Post lots of pics of your honey doing some work in the GWoF thread!

Best of luck to you on the swap. It will have a sound like no other Fiero when it is done. Talking about confusing the Fiero illiterate! I wish I were closer to watch in person.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #29, 12-22-2007 06:49 AM
      The Jetta doesn't have much of a cradle. The engine mounts to the upper frame rails and it has a little baby half cradle that holds the lower arms. I was thinking of seeing how the VW hubs would work with the Fiero (both 5x100). The hard part is trying to find a compatible fuel pump.
The shop is closed this next week, so I may get a day to go there and play around without having to answer the phone or talk to customers (no offense to them).
.
.
.
Sax, I almost had a great pic of Joey helping me put a headliner in a E320. She was crunched up in the rear shelf getting the wiring situated. Her head was pressed up against the back window. It would have made a great pic.
She will definitely be helping on the VR6....after all, it's her car.
Dave


Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #30, 12-22-2007 07:47 AM
      It will be hers?! Man, you must really dig this chick.

Philphine (philphine@live.com) MSG #31, 12-22-2007 08:28 AM
      be interesting to see it as an actual real life swap. way back when i first joined here there was someone who claimed to have done this. i think the thread ended up being several pages long, but the more pointed the questions got the less he posted till he finally disappeared.

good luck, hope you can add to the swap possibilities.


vortecfiero (vortecfiero@hotmail.com) MSG #32, 12-22-2007 09:08 AM
      interesting !
those engines can make a whole lot of power
also... hehe
you are paving the way for other VW/audi swaps...
turbo 4?
twin turbo 6
oh yeah and I think they have a v8 too... (lol @ think) jk hehe I love the audi v8



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #33, 12-22-2007 01:09 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by vortecfiero:

interesting !
those engines can make a whole lot of power
also... hehe
you are paving the way for other VW/audi swaps...
turbo 4?
twin turbo 6
oh yeah and I think they have a v8 too... (lol @ think) jk hehe I love the audi v8


The swap seemed natural for the Fiero. It is a transverse V-straight 6 that can handle added power. I work on German cars for a living, so I know these engines in and out. The 1.8t can be made to go faster, but the motor isn't very reliable. The Audi V8 is similar to the Porsche 928 engine. The Audi V6's are very wide, so it would be a tricky swap. I was thinking of the VW W8, but the motor is very expensive.
As for making it reality, well, concider it to already be a reality. This swap is already in progress and I can't see a single part of the swap that is going to give me major problems. The fly by wire throttle, custom axles, software reprogram....it's all planned for. This is why I purchased a complete car, rather than individual components. I have the VIN to order any replacement parts and I have all the wiring and modules needed.
Dave


crytical point (thomasgilmartin@hotmail.com) MSG #34, 12-23-2007 09:00 AM
      I have driven VR6 powered VW's from 12-24v and turbo (limited to 21 psi) and they are so fast and worth it is so many areas. My fiero started to go out on me though it was just playing dead while I was looking for a VW with either 1.8t or 24v VR6 and I was disappointed when the Fiero ran fine with no problems. Everytime it gives me an excuse to get another car or dump all of my money into the monza it runs fine with no problems and stays that way till if feels like crapping out again.

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #35, 12-23-2007 10:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by vortecfiero:

interesting !
those engines can make a whole lot of power
also... hehe
you are paving the way for other VW/audi swaps...
turbo 4?
twin turbo 6
oh yeah and I think they have a v8 too... (lol @ think) jk hehe I love the audi v8



Yea, I was waiting myself for some variety and cross breeding with engine swaps. Guess someone has to take the first (well not really first..) step. Glad it's BMWGuru.

You have no idea even. that Audi V8 engine is just gorgeous and indestructible (stock). There are Audi V8's and Audi A8's driving around that have 400,000 miles on the original engine. Not to mention the sound is just sweet. Very smooth and sophisticated.


WisconsinGT (animationgroup@yahoo.com) MSG #36, 12-23-2007 10:41 PM
      I am first in line at bmwguru's place for a VR6 swap.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #37, 12-26-2007 08:33 AM
      I feel like a kid in a candy store. I've been looking around and I knew there were a lot of aftermarket mods for the VW's, but I've found stuff that I didnt expect. Just about every part of the car has an aftermarket mod for it. Custom gearsets, LSD or race spools, many turbo kits....not to mention the normal engine mods such as cams, intakes, headers, etc.
Anyway, I'm planning on pulling the drivetrain out of the VW on Friday. The first step will be to replace the timing chains and guides. Also, the rear main seal will be done at this time. The stock flywheel weighs 20lbs. I will be replacing that with a 10lb billet steel flywheel. I could go with the 7.5lb aluminum, but I figure with the eventual turbo install, a 10lb will work better. If it is in the budget, I'll be doing the LSD or race spool at that time. If not, I figure it will be a 6 hour job to R&R the trans and tear it apart to replace the differential later.
Like I mentioned before, the engine is going in naturally aspirated to see how it reacts to its new home. I want to see how it feels compared to a GTI VR6. Once I am happy with the way it runs, no overheating, nothing weird with the driveability, then it goes to the dyno for a baseline HP reading and track. Then onto the turbo mods and back to the dyno and track.
If I feel that the swap is doable for a DIY'er, I might make a kit. Otherwise, I'll concider doing a swap or two at my shop.
Dave


megafreakindeth MSG #38, 12-26-2007 01:13 PM
      if you need anything i know vws up and down and sideways. i too have been eyeballing this one for its many advantages. as for taking the motor out of an mk4 you may have extra mounting problems due to the crappy dogbone style mount with the two side mounts. the earlier mk3 vr6s had real motor mounts that were on the front and back of the motor but ive never actually looked to see if the blocks are the same. are you planning on using the vw engine management? i think it would be kinda funny to drop a fiero off into a dealer and have them code the control modules for you.

as for 12v not making power, ive seen mk3 12vs with cams and intake/cat back running mid 14s which isnt something our v6 can do. the 24v is a sweet one but i didnt think it would be swappable due to the engine mount configuration.

as for size id have to say the vr6 is prolly the same size length wise, mabye at the most an inch longer but with the head and manifolds off it really is a tiny engine. rock solid too i dont think they have mechanical problems i sure havent seen any.


megafreakindeth MSG #39, 12-26-2007 01:22 PM
      as for the audi v8 being good, it may be a sweet engine when its in good shape but were talking 4-5hr valve cover gasket jobs(labor wise) and the timing belts are a pain, mabye easier in a fiero but prolly not. the only thing that keeps me from killing the designers at vag are the fact that mechanically they dont really fail and you can pretty much fix everything else with a vag com.
i have dropped one into a 98 a4 quattro which is bascilly the smallest lightest passat with 4 wheel double wishbone you can get, it was much fun. one of these days ill drop a 540 motor into a 3 series, which will probably kill me.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #40, 12-26-2007 02:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by megafreakindeth:

as for taking the motor out of an mk4 you may have extra mounting problems due to the crappy dogbone style mount with the two side mounts. [QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by megafreakindeth:
are you planning on using the vw engine management? i think it would be kinda funny to drop a fiero off into a dealer and have them code the control modules for you.
[QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by megafreakindeth:
as for 12v not making power, ive seen mk3 12vs with cams and intake/cat back running mid 14s which isnt something our v6 can do. the 24v is a sweet one but i didnt think it would be swappable due to the engine mount configuration.

as for size id have to say the vr6 is prolly the same size length wise, mabye at the most an inch longer but with the head and manifolds off it really is a tiny engine. rock solid too i dont think they have mechanical problems i sure havent seen any.


I chose the mk4 because of this mounting arrangement.

I do my own coding and programming. I own a German only repair shop and have all the factory laptops. The fun part would be to show up for Waterfest with a VR6 Fiero. They'd kick me out.

The 12v can make more power than the 24v for 1/4 of the price. The 24v technology is still expensive, but in a few years, it will be making tons of more power than the 12v for a more reasonable price. The 24v mounts the same as the AFP 12v . The VR6 had issues with the timing chains. They should be replaced every 100,000 miles. That is why I am doing all the needed maintenance prior to install.
As the swap goes on, I welcome anyone to stop by my shop and take a sneak peak at it.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 12-26-2007).]

AkursedX (akursedx@aol.com) MSG #41, 12-26-2007 05:13 PM
      My daily driver is an '07 Fahrenheit GTI and prior to that was an '05 GLI so I've been around VW's for a few years now. I have learned alot from Vortex and have made some cool friends on MichiganVW.org. I've learned quite a bit about VW's in a this short time and I find this swap really intriguing. I have mentioned it to a bunch of fellow dubbers and they were really intrigued by the idea. As for myself, I think this is an awesome swap! I had dreamt about a 1.8t in my Fiero, or now, the 2.0t with a DSG tranny in a Fiero! But I know I would never have the know-how or ability. I kinda wish it would have been a 24v VR6 from an R32. That is the sexiest sounding passenger vehicle motor on the planet, but I do understand why the 12v would be a better idea.

Anyways, I will be keeping a close eye on this swap, who knows, if I decide on another Fiero, I might have to consider this swap! Oh, and as for the 12v VR6, www.autotech.com has a huge sale that lasts through the end of the year (20-30% off of everything!)



Philphine (philphine@live.com) MSG #42, 12-26-2007 05:53 PM
      don't remember reading it, but are you gonna weight the drivetrain once you have it out? just wondering how it compares to the other swaps.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #43, 12-26-2007 06:53 PM
      I priced out just a R32 drivetrain-engine, six speed trans and wiring with ecu.....$8,000 used no warranty. Trust me...that was my engine of choice. The 24v from a '03 Jetta....the mods are way too expensive. The AAA VR6 is just too old school for me. Very cheap to come by, and definitely a good budget swap, but I really like the APF engine.
My plans are to take the car for a dyno run when it is all done in the Phase 1 stage. At the same time, I'll see if I can twist my friend's arm into bringing his stock VR6 2000 Jetta 5 speed along to compare runs. The donor car is an identical match to his. I want to see the slight mods I am doing to see the gains.
I'm not sure of what the weight of The VR6 is, but I can lift a fully assembled engine with accessories off the ground a few inches. It is a cast iron block, though.
Dave
ps.....if all goes well, I might have something to update tomorrow after work.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #44, 12-27-2007 05:37 PM
      We have progress.
I removed the drivetrain from the Jetta today. I also set the Fiero in the shop to be ready for the drivetrain removal.




Upon removal of the transmission, I found that someone was "in here". I found a $480.00 5.5lb aluminum flywheel and brand new clutch. I wanted to use a 10lb flywheel for the turbo, but I'll see how the 5.5lb one is at first. Worst case, I can swap in out in a few hours. The stock flywheel weighs in at 20lbs.

Also, someone had replaced the front crank damper with a lightweight pulley.


The plan for today was to inspect and prep the transmission. Tomorrow, I will check out the timing chains. I'm assuming that they are new being that the cylinder head is new and the flywheel is new. The timing chains are behind the flywheel.
Here are some before and after shots of the transmission.




bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #45, 12-27-2007 05:41 PM
      Here is a tally sheet thus far...
Donor car $2550.00
Fuel/tolls $200.00
Chemicals/paint $10.00
Invested labor 4.5 hours
.
Dave


AutoTech (boosted2m6@yahoo.com) MSG #46, 12-27-2007 06:11 PM
      Holy cow! 5.5lbs, thats light! You must have gotten a little excited seeing these cool parts on it already, I know I would have.

What did you use to clean the trans? Looks very nice.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #47, 12-27-2007 06:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by AutoTech:

Holy cow! 5.5lbs, thats light! You must have gotten a little excited seeing these cool parts on it already, I know I would have.

What did you use to clean the trans? Looks very nice.


yeah, I was very happy. It saved me a few days for the flywheel ordering. As for the trans....I used parts washer and a brush and cleaned it with Brakeleen and shop air. Aluminum engine paint to finish. All trans seals looked good, so they were left alone.
Dave


Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #48, 12-27-2007 11:11 PM
      That's a good job for one day! Dayum, the trans looks good! The first thing I thought when I saw the upgraded parts was, "Did the previous owner thrash it?"

I sure wish I were closer to learn some things from the guru...


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #49, 12-28-2007 11:12 AM
      Here is a little lunch update. I removed the timing covers only to discover that the engine has brand new timing chains and rails....even new camshaft gears.

The only thing replaced at this point was the upper timing chain tensioner....I didn't think that the one installed met my level of standards. Also the valve cover gasket and rear crankshaft seal was replaced at this time. After lunch, I'm going to reinstall the transmission and swap on the correct oil pan. The engine has the oil pan from a 1998 GTI AAA VR6. I don't know why, but I'd rather have the aluminum pan from the AFP engine and I have an extra one here.
Here are some shots of my "VR6 specialist" working on her Fiero's soon to be engine.




and a butt shot.....



AkursedX (akursedx@aol.com) MSG #50, 12-28-2007 12:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

The engine has the oil pan from a 1998 GTI AAA VR6. I don't know why, but I'd rather have the aluminum pan from the AFP engine and I have an extra one here.


Actually, from the pictures, the pan you have on looks like an all-steel pan. I believe this pan was considered to be superior to the aluminum pan due the aluminum pan being very brittle and breaking alot. I have seen a good number of VW's with broken pans. That being said, I don't see a switch back to the aluminum pan being that much of an issue due to being swapped into a Fiero.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #51, 12-28-2007 12:59 PM
      The steel pan was only used on the Jetta III cars. I like the aluminum pans better. The only reason it would crack is if you let's say run over a cinder block in the road....oh wait. That's how I got the idea to swap in the VR6. I had to replace an engine because of that reason. In the Fiero, I'm not worried....The rear frame should protect it.
Here are the last pics of the year. Shop's closed.
Old steel oil pan

Aluminum replacement

Me putting the transmission back on.

The butt shot for Saxman....lol.

Here is where we leave off. Next step is to make a power steering pump delete/or idler replacement pulley. Then it's install time.


Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #52, 12-28-2007 05:38 PM
     
 
quote

Originally posted by bmwguru:
The butt shot for Saxman....lol.



I need to work on a suitable non-offensive re"butt"le. Maybe I can get my wife to help...

HAPPY NEW YEAR YOU TWO!

[This message has been edited by Saxman (edited 12-29-2007).]

blackrams (blackrams7@aol.com) MSG #53, 12-29-2007 07:30 AM
      I can see this swap becoming very popular. I've spoken with others about doing a VW swap in the past. I'm happy to see someone taking the challenge on. I am interested to know what the weight differences are between the "stock" OEM engine/tranny combo and what you're going to end up with.



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #54, 01-01-2008 03:28 PM
      I've been thinking about my upcoming week. I might take the transmission back off and install a Peloquin LSD. I have the opportunity to pick up the diff at a good price....should I??? The diff comes with a lifetime warranty, too.
It is a lot more involved to change out the diff in a VW transmission than a Muncie. I've done the Muncie speedo gear swaps in less than an hour after the transmission is out. To do the VW, all the gears must be pressed off the shafts to get at the differential and then pressed back on. I'm not a trans builder, but I feel that I can do the job.
Also, I have to pull the valve cover off again. I am wondering if the cams are the stock ones or performance. I am wondering since I saw the port and polish, light flywheel and other performance add ons.
Dave


AkursedX (akursedx@aol.com) MSG #55, 01-01-2008 05:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I've been thinking about my upcoming week. I might take the transmission back off and install a Peloquin LSD. I have the opportunity to pick up the diff at a good price....should I??? The diff comes with a lifetime warranty, too.



Do it! I know there's alot of work involved, but I would think an LSD would make a huge difference in performance. And if you can get a good deal on the Peloquin, it makes it that much more enticing. I've only driven a FWD with a limited-slip, and it made a huge difference in performance, particularly in cornering. I would imagine it would help a Fiero out immensely as well.

[This message has been edited by AkursedX (edited 01-01-2008).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #56, 01-01-2008 05:41 PM
      Is that a torsen type LSD?

gt88norm MSG #57, 01-02-2008 04:01 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
To do the VW, all the gears must be pressed off the shafts to get at the differential and then pressed back on. I'm not a trans builder, but I feel that I can do the job.
Dave


Dry-ice and a toaster oven ;^) Just kinda kiddin'!

Norm


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #58, 01-02-2008 12:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

Is that a torsen type LSD?


yes, it is.



Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #59, 01-03-2008 03:40 PM
      Then yea, by all means..

Torsens are awesome!!!*
At least on my dad's Audi they're nearly indestructible, don't wear out like clutch type, and are essentially maintenance free.
_____
* downside: they don't work well (at all) in 0 traction situations. i.e: ice. (but I'd assume Fieros+ice=very scary anyways )


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #60, 01-10-2008 07:58 PM
      Sorry to have the thread come to a dead stop. My shop was overbooked this week...and it's not over yet. There's just two of us working on the cars and in four days we got over $20,000 in repairs done. Not too shabby.
Come Friday evening....I'm pulling out the Grey Goose.
Saturday, I'm going to resume the VR6 swap work.
Dave


Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #61, 01-10-2008 08:13 PM
      I need to come up and work for you when I retire this year! (Of course, I would have a LOT to learn...)

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #62, 01-12-2008 02:17 PM
      I came in for a few hours to prep the Fiero. Here are a few shots......


ready to come out....


damn, the trans fluid is just so clean.....a well maintained car.


nothing was cut...except for the wiring to the passenger side connector in the engine compartment next to the battery....the 1/4" securing bolt stripped out. I'll go through the wiring and solder in a new connector


it's out......


FOR SALE..........(engine, trans, wiring only.)

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 01-12-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #63, 01-12-2008 03:01 PM
      I measured the GM 2.8 end to end with transmission and got 36". I measured the VW 2.8 and got 33.5"
This should be easier than I thought.
Dave


Andreas DK (a.bovenschulte@hotmail.com) MSG #64, 01-12-2008 08:04 PM
      you should get a HGP or a EIP Bi-turbo set on..! then it makes about 550hk and can easly make more..! :-P

Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #65, 01-13-2008 11:43 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I measured the GM 2.8 end to end with transmission and got 36". I measured the VW 2.8 and got 33.5"
This should be easier than I thought.
Dave


I wondered how that was going to work out.

I don't know anything about VWs, so I don't have anything useful to add, but it's quite interesting.
You've got our attention.




bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #66, 01-13-2008 02:11 PM
      The way the shop is booked up, it looks like I'm going to be spending a few nights a week and one day on a weekend on this project.
It's funny. My shop's workload was average when I bought my GT for the V8 swap. As soon as I pulled the engine, I was so busy I couldn't even look at the V8 project for over a year. As soon as it was done, we were slow for a whole year. Now, I start on this one and I have more work than I know what to do with.
Maybe I should always have a project car in the shop at all times.
If this swap goes well, a TDI swap will be in order as well as a built R32 swap...
I may just pull out the V8 and put in the R32 into that car.
BUT first, let's see how this one goes. The TDI swap will be done on someone elses car. I think it will be an easy swap, but if I buy any more Fieros, my wife will kill me. Also, not to get ahead of myself, but I have a few slight mods for the TDI swap that I do to customer's cars to get rid of the few quirks they have...(not performance related).
Dave
ps....also there was one other thing I had done to the VR6 when it was apart for inspection that I did not mention. I'm not going to tell you what it is because I sell it to my customers as an upgrade. It is small, but you can feel the difference when accelerating, but I keep that in house. The dyno should show the difference.


dsnover MSG #67, 01-13-2008 04:15 PM
      As the owner of a 2000 TDI Jetta, I'd LOVE to see a TDI swap. I have 220k miles on my TDI. I love the engine, and I think in a lighter car, would be even better. One of the other thoughts that I had was swapping the brakes from the 99.5 + Jetta onto a Fiero. The Jetta has the same bolt pattern, and the rotors are pretty decent size.

-Darryl


HC MSG #68, 01-13-2008 06:20 PM
      Wow man, your making history right here... Whatever you do goes in the books.

I could only dream of a Tiptronic Fiero... Or a Quattro...


HC MSG #69, 01-13-2008 06:23 PM
      And a + for you sir!

JazzMan (jazzman@fierocentral.com) MSG #70, 01-14-2008 01:09 PM
      .

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 04-14-2009).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #71, 01-14-2008 06:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JazzMan:

Yep, I too am holding out for a TDI swap, I've been wanting to do one for more than 5 years now but don't know where to start.

How expensive are TDI drivetrains to get ahold of? What years are good? I want the 5spd, of course.

JazzMan


With the TDI swap, you can get away with buying just the engine, trans, computer and wiring. It is all very simple and self contained. You can get a decent TDI drivetrain from a 2000 Jetta for somewhere between $3500-$5000
Dave


foxgapfiero (hoaglanm@ptd.net) MSG #72, 01-15-2008 07:45 AM
      I dropped off a printed copy of this thread to a friend of mine, Jim Mamana. His company is called MMI Concepts here in Bangor PA. He builds a lot of real nasty VW's and has a VR6 drag car. He is really interested in what you are doing.

BtotheB (b.cathrae@gmail.com) MSG #73, 01-15-2008 09:29 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by JazzMan:

Yep, I too am holding out for a TDI swap, I've been wanting to do one for more than 5 years now but don't know where to start.

How expensive are TDI drivetrains to get ahold of? What years are good? I want the 5spd, of course.

JazzMan


I'd stick with the 99.5-2003 ALH engines. Best for aftermarket as well as economy. Spend a couple grand - VNT17, PP764 nozzles, larger intercooler, larger downpipe and a tune and you're at 140hp/280tq... and still getting 50MPG. I'd love to have that in a Fiero...


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #74, 01-15-2008 09:41 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BtotheB:


I'd stick with the 99.5-2003 ALH engines. Best for aftermarket as well as economy. Spend a couple grand - VNT17, PP764 nozzles, larger intercooler, larger downpipe and a tune and you're at 140hp/280tq... and still getting 50MPG. I'd love to have that in a Fiero...


The ALH is the most common to come by. If you plan on maintaining it yourself, you will need the VAG-COM.
Dave


crytical point (thomasgilmartin@hotmail.com) MSG #75, 01-15-2008 02:55 PM
      make a kit and I will buy!

this is by far the best swap EVER in a fiero


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #76, 01-15-2008 03:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by crytical point:

make a kit and I will buy!

this is by far the best swap EVER in a fiero


bring me the car, and I will install........let me finish and test this one first.
Dave


JazzMan (jazzman@fierocentral.com) MSG #77, 01-15-2008 06:13 PM
      .

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 04-14-2009).]

FIERO1985 (vwfiero@gmail.com) MSG #78, 01-15-2008 09:56 PM
      I am a vw tech here in columbus and I am very closely watching this thread, I have 3 buddies who all have turbo vr6 gti's on is bored to a 3.0 . This is a real cool swap cant wait to see some more progress pics

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #79, 01-17-2008 09:39 AM
      This VR6 will be getting a turbo this summer. I'm not really happy with any kits out there. I'd like to try and run over 25lbs of boost with some slicks and see what this thing will do. Obviously, a cage and other safety measures will have to be met first.
I prepped the cradle this morning and I'm going to start fitting the engine today.
Here is a pic of the aluminum cradle bushings from John Stricker. I should have more progress at the end of the day. Also, note the difference between the heavy Fiero axle and the VW axle (it is half the weight).
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 01-17-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #80, 01-17-2008 11:12 AM
      Here are some pics as we break for lunch. Initial measurements were exactly as I had planned. There is plenty of room for the turbo manifold down the road....always plan ahead.
Dave





KaijuSenso MSG #81, 01-17-2008 01:31 PM
      That is very exciting to see it in the car so far. I hope to see a full price layout of this swap to compare to a TDI

Mr.PBody (paniccia008@aol.com) MSG #82, 01-17-2008 02:21 PM
      That almost looks too easy, can't wait to see more progress.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #83, 01-17-2008 05:29 PM
      I'm still far from done. I have to take the drivetrain back out and install the LSD. I'll do a writeup in here with pics. Also, The cradle original engine mount must be removed to clear the oil pan. The engine bay was cleaned and painted and battery tray removed. I have to remove a couple of the small brackets still, but my spot weld drill bit broke today. I hope Snap On has one on the truck tomorrow. Also, I still have to do the wiring for the fly by wire throttle.
The way I am setting the engine up looks like the clutch should be able to be done in less than an hour. The engine isn't mounted to the cradle. I retained the factory engine mounts from the Jetta and tomorrow the brackets will be welded in permanently. This will allow the cradle to be taken out without having to mess with the mounts . The VW engine computer will be mounted where the Fiero computer was. A second harness will be made for the OBDII connector as well as the throttle. Custom axles will need to be made. I figure that I am going to spend the extra money now to handle the turbo later on. So, the axles won't be cheap.
Dave


fieroguru MSG #84, 01-17-2008 06:09 PM
      The small thin sheet metal brackets are easy to remove w/o a spot weld drill, just use some tin snips to cut them in half and grab them with some pilers and bend then around the spot weld and they will come right off. Then just hit what is left with the flapper disk and you are done.

Great swap so far!



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #85, 01-17-2008 06:23 PM
      I used the spot weld drill to remove the battery tray. I need it again to remove the upper dog bone mounting bracket. I'm not going to use it and it frees up some room to give a cleaner appearance. I'm so anal about things. The spot weld drill leaves a nice looking finish when the brackets are removed. I don't do anything half assed....not that trimming the brackets and grinding is half assed....I just don't like getting covered in metal filings. I had my share of metal filings when I put in my SBC in my other Fiero.
Dave


fieroguru MSG #86, 01-17-2008 06:29 PM
      I thought you were talking about the little strap/brackets for all the lines/hoses not the battery tray or dog bone mount - a spot weld drill helps a great deal with those.

I too dislike the dogbone bracket and have removed them on both of my 88's with swapped motors.


megafreakindeth MSG #87, 01-17-2008 08:19 PM
      can you get a pic of how youre mounting the motor to the subframe? r u using vw mounts or new ones?

id do this swap if it was a kit, i dont have the time or the extra car to do this from scratch. deffinatly would use a 24v though, way better engine even though it uses rockers instead of buttons.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #88, 01-17-2008 09:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by megafreakindeth:

can you get a pic of how youre mounting the motor to the subframe? r u using vw mounts or new ones?

id do this swap if it was a kit, i dont have the time or the extra car to do this from scratch. deffinatly would use a 24v though, way better engine even though it uses rockers instead of buttons.


my next one will be a 24v R32. I figured I'd start easy and work my way up before dropping over $8000 for a used engine and trans. I'm not mounting the engine to the subframe...it is getting mounted to the space frame with a torsion link or dog bone to the subframe. The subframe is solidly mounted so there will be no flex to worry about . I am using modified VW mounts. I am doing the mods myself. I'll take photos of the mounts, but I may not have any progress until mid next week. I just had a Passat towed into my shop for a engine replacement that I need to get done...along with the tons of other work scheduled.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #89, 01-17-2008 09:44 PM
      Blah.....this is my 1200th post....I just couldn't resist.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #90, 01-17-2008 10:11 PM
      Here are a few pics from today.
I pulled the drivetrain back out to remove the battery tray. Also, the engine compartment was painted at this time. I'll touch it up after I remove the dog bone mount.
There is also a pic of the engine temporarily installed for those that missed page two. The engine is back in as of the moment, but I figure it will be in and out about twenty times before it finally rests there. I want to make sure that it is able to be serviced while in the car. I also want it to be able to be modified in the future without having to do any cutting of the trunk or frame.
Dave




Fieroseverywhere (caalon777@hotmail.com) MSG #91, 01-17-2008 10:15 PM
      I like where the intake comes out. Keeps it out of the way of the shift cables. As long as there is no battery in the stock location looks like it will work out great. Looks Keep up the nice work. Cant wait to hear it run.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 01-17-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #92, 01-18-2008 06:36 PM
      I had an hour to play today. I mounted the cradle and did a final torque on the bolts. The suspension will be going back on next week. The engine and trans is out right now while I reinforce the mounting points. From here on out, the engine is goiing in and out through the top..with plenty of room to spare. I have Tuesday planned for the transmission teardown and inspection. If all passes my criteria, the Peloquin LSD will be going in.
Today, I removed the dog bone mount and removed the front engine mount bracket from the cradle. Smoothed it so it looks like it was never there. I also had seven other cars to get done before 3pm today.
That's it until Tuesday.
Dave


Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #93, 01-19-2008 12:02 AM
      Had some "alone-time" with the VW Fiero today, huh? I didn't hear about how the party went while Anonymity was out of town.

This is great stuff - and what's better is that nobody is giving you sh** for using that engine. When I asked about a non-GM swap my first month here, I thought I was going to be strung up! Of course, I was a noobie, too, so what do you expect.

Cheers, Dave!

BTW, if Anonymity is out of town, who was the blonde in this chick-in-the-engine-bay shot? (I guess I owe you another beer...)
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:





fierohobby MSG #94, 01-19-2008 06:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Saxman:
BTW, if Anonymity is out of town, who was the blonde in this chick-in-the-engine-bay shot? (I guess I owe you another beer...)



It's a good thing he likes you.

I just wanted to chime in guru, and say I think this is awesome. Good work.

-fh

[This message has been edited by fierohobby (edited 01-19-2008).]

Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #95, 01-19-2008 06:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierohobby:
It's a good thing he likes you.

I just wanted to chime in guru, and say I think this is awesome. Good work.
-fh


I don't want to be on his bad side - for sure! His wife would probably kick my butt...


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #96, 01-24-2008 09:47 AM
      I ran into a few problems. First, both of my laptops have fried out on me, so I can only access the internet from the shop. Time to get at least one of the laptops fixed.
Second, I was about to install the Peloquin LSD and found issues with the transmission. I ordered another transmission this morning and should have it in a few days. Then the LSD will be installed into that one. In the meantime, I'm going to use this trans as a mock up, so I can still make some progress with the swap.

fifth gear must be pressed off to split the case.


pulling the syncro and gear.


case opened. You can see the bearing damaged. There were other damaged parts not shown here, but the cost of the parts was about $800. A used trans with 60,000 miles was $500.

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 01-24-2008).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #97, 01-25-2008 02:51 AM
      Cool... updates

anonymity MSG #98, 01-25-2008 01:39 PM
      Just had to say something in this thread, so here goes...
.
.
.
.
.
SOMETHING!

Just kidding, Love you, Honey!


Ya know, the only thing that worries me more than Dave working on the VR6 engine swap....
.
is Dave working on the VR6 engine swap when I'm NOT around.

You're doin great, Honey!!

Joey


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #99, 01-25-2008 02:55 PM
      The most crucial part of my swap arrived in the mail today....................
The Keychain.


I also was concidering the problems the ugly blue underdrive crankshaft pulley would create. It is a known fact. Blue pulleys lose .75% horsepower. Also, it is a fact that the Fiero has a rep for running a little hot. Slowing down the water pump to gain 3% horsepower is not good in my book. So, doing my research, I purchased a Gruvenparts non-underdrive billet aluminum crankshaft pulley. It weighs in at 500g. and costs $159.00 If I subtract the power steering and a/c compressor, I have my 3% back....not to mention that ugly blue crankshaft pulleys lose .75%, so I just created an advantage.
Ok enough of the BS. Here is a pic.



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #100, 01-30-2008 10:16 AM
      Here is the latest update. I received the transmission and all looks well with it. I am waiting for the Peloquin LSD to arrive...should be any day now. In the meantime, I removed most of the needed wiring and gas pedal from the Jetta. It has all been laid out to see what needs to be shortened/lengthened/removed/added


This is why it is good to get the whole car. I am also parting out the Jetta as I go and have just about broken even on the parts and LSD purchase....and there is a lot of Jetta left.
I'm going to try and spend a few hours today playing with the Fiero.
Dave


Clarksvegas88GT MSG #101, 02-07-2008 02:37 PM
      great work Dave.. ..I've been glued to this post ever since I stumbled onto it..... could the R32 engine and trans be used in a Fiero swap ....or would you have to use a Jetta trans..... assuming the bolt pattern on the 2.8 and 3.2 VR6's are indentical?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #102, 02-07-2008 03:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Clarksvegas88GT:

great work Dave.. ..I've been glued to this post ever since I stumbled onto it..... could the R32 engine and trans be used in a Fiero swap ....or would you have to use a Jetta trans..... assuming the bolt pattern on the 2.8 and 3.2 VR6's are indentical?


The R32 is the same setup, but with a six speed manual trans. That will be a future swap....maybe to replace my V8 Fiero. I haven't done much to the VR6 in the past week. I had another thread on O/T that was a rant thread. My head was ready to explode from the stupidity I had to endure lately. I also had to repair my third Fiero. It got Rodney's idler pulley, the Fiero Store's ABS headliner, and JStricker's aluminum cradle bushings.
I'll be back on the VR6 next week when my head is clear again. Too much customer's work lately and not enough time during the day.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 02-07-2008).]

Clarksvegas88GT MSG #103, 02-07-2008 05:09 PM
      thanks for the update.......you have the best swap yet IMO.....don't let them get to you.....there are more important things that need your attention ...like a Fiero in dire need of a VR6......

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #104, 02-11-2008 10:36 PM
      Cool, can't wait to see updates on this thread.


big block fiero (laragam@netzero.com) MSG #105, 02-12-2008 12:44 AM
      I am wondering, The bolt patterns are the same so if you were to put the VW struts in the fiero (don't have any idea if this could work) are VW brake upgrades better then those for a fiero?

For you, the axle spindle splines would then match your stock VW axles and maybe the width would also be ok. For me, I have an 84 fiero with 14" pace car rims so the best brakes I can get are grand-am brakes but maybe VW upgrades for a 14" rim are better then the grand am brakes that I now have.

The next possibility for improvement for any overpowered fiero launching on slicks is that under severe amounts of load the tie rods buck the frame mounts hard enough to flex the cradle and strut rods. So are the VW strut rods a larger diameter then the fieros? and is the (tie rod connection) arm on the VW spindle longer for more leverage then the fiero spindle arm so that the bucking force would be reduced so as to put less stress on everything, reduce flexing and eliminate wheel hop?

[This message has been edited by big block fiero (edited 02-12-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #106, 02-12-2008 08:07 AM
      I have made some progress to the swap. I replaced the radiator, installed the Peloquin LSD in the second transmission, and changed out the fuel pump to a Warlbro pump. I've made about four sets of mounts, but I am really not happy with them, so I plan on making a 5th set. The other sets are a little too complicated or too simple...not quite right....and I am a perfectionist. I really don't care if I have to try ten more times to get it the way I want it. Once I get it just right, I'm going to make some templates for future mounts...possibly removing my V8 and dropping in a R32?????.....turbo
I've also been busy getting my gold GT ready....new headliner, radio, differential side bearings, aluminum cradle bushings, alignment, stuff like that. My life has been a revolution of Fieros lately.
I'm planning on working late on the mounts tomorrow night. I really can hardly wait to get to the wiring...and hear it run.
Dave
as for the VW suspension....I thought about it, but I'm using the GM suspension. The VW struts suck....that's the best way to put it. They are too soft and the mounts always loosen up every 20k. The lower control arms are very easy to bend and axles are lightweight. I'm getting race axles made at the driveshaft shop. Hopefully good for 600whp. Always plan for the future.


anonymity MSG #107, 02-12-2008 12:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I have made some progress to the swap. I replaced the radiator, installed the Peloquin LSD in the second transmission, and changed out the fuel pump to a Warlbro pump. I've made about four sets of mounts, but I am really not happy with them, so I plan on making a 5th set. The other sets are a little too complicated or too simple...not quite right....and I am a perfectionist. I really don't care if I have to try ten more times to get it the way I want it. Once I get it just right, I'm going to make some templates for future mounts...possibly removing my V8 and dropping in a R32?????.....turbo
I've also been busy getting my gold GT ready....new headliner, radio, differential side bearings, aluminum cradle bushings, alignment, stuff like that. My life has been a revolution of Fieros lately.
I'm planning on working late on the mounts tomorrow night. I really can hardly wait to get to the wiring...and hear it run.
Dave
as for the VW suspension....I thought about it, but I'm using the GM suspension. The VW struts suck....that's the best way to put it. They are too soft and the mounts always loosen up every 20k. The lower control arms are very easy to bend and axles are lightweight. I'm getting race axles made at the driveshaft shop. Hopefully good for 600whp. Always plan for the future.



ok enuff already... nobody cares about the sh!t you're going through..... they just want to know if YOU can actually complete it......

when can I finally have my car back!!!! you always take the gold one to work.... yours is at the body shop..... and mine is STUCK on the lift..... wine... wine ...b!tch ...moan ..... FINE, i'll drive my honda and you'll just have to keep fixin what I break!!!

(hehehehe, whatcha gonna say now!)


Kento (kento@triad.rr.com) MSG #108, 02-12-2008 01:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by anonymity:
ok enuff already... nobody cares about the sh!t you're going through..... they just want to know if YOU can actually complete it......
when can I finally have my car back!!!! you always take the gold one to work.... yours is at the body shop..... and mine is STUCK on the lift..... wine... wine ...b!tch ...moan ..... FINE, i'll drive my honda and you'll just have to keep fixin what I break!!!
(hehehehe, whatcha gonna say now!)


Can I get a Side of Sarcasm with that



JazzMan (jazzman@fierocentral.com) MSG #109, 02-12-2008 01:57 PM
      .

[This message has been edited by JazzMan (edited 04-14-2009).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #110, 02-12-2008 06:21 PM
      Yea he is.

BMW, could you post pics of the progress (even if it's a dead-end abandoned idea.) We wanna learn, and we likes pics.



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #111, 02-12-2008 06:57 PM
      I'll be working on the swap tomorrow night. I should have some pics to post after that.
Dave


KurtAKX MSG #112, 02-13-2008 12:57 AM
      When you run the R32 trans, what are you going to do with that extra rear driveshaft stuff that feeds the rear wheels? PTO?

I suppose you could hook up a brush mower or a nice 10kW generator for when power goes out or something...


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #113, 02-13-2008 08:07 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

When you run the R32 trans, what are you going to do with that extra rear driveshaft stuff that feeds the rear wheels? PTO?

I suppose you could hook up a brush mower or a nice 10kW generator for when power goes out or something...


The VW R32 is a pretty common swap for the VR6 GTI. I haven't planned it all out yet, but before I do any swap about six months of planning goes into it before the actual swap takes place. I imagine if I were to do the R32 swap, I would use a 2004 engine with a six speed transmission from a GTI FWD.
Let me get through this one before I try to go crazy with these things. A TDI swap is next on the drawing board.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 02-13-2008).]

anonymity MSG #114, 02-13-2008 12:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


The VW R32 is a pretty common swap for the VR6 GTI. I haven't planned it all out yet, but before I do any swap about six months of planning goes into it before the actual swap takes place. I imagine if I were to do the R32 swap, I would use a 2004 engine with a six speed transmission from a GTI FWD.
Let me get through this one before I try to go crazy with these things. A TDI swap is next on the drawing board.
Dave




yes, honey, ONE... that's ONE project at a time.... Of course you could let me finish them..... but you probably wouldn't like that, huh.

(gathers C-4, dynamite, and fuse) Here honey let me help!!!




Clarksvegas88GT MSG #115, 02-13-2008 12:39 PM
      any particular reason for the 2004 engine....would 2003-2008 R32 engines work?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #116, 02-13-2008 01:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Clarksvegas88GT:

any particular reason for the 2004 engine....would 2003-2008 R32 engines work?


2004 was the only MK4 R32. They reissued the R32 in 2008. The R32 used a 3.2 liter VR6. The standard VR6 I am using in this swap is 2.8 liters. You can get the VR6 3.2 in the A3, Touareg, TT, etc.....but they use a different engine than the R32. The R32 uses a BJS engine and the rest use a BHE, BAA, BMX etc.
Anyway, let's cross one bridge at a time.
Dave



Clarksvegas88GT MSG #117, 02-13-2008 02:47 PM
      ok thanks......I re-read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VW_R32 .....2004 & 2008 ......sorry about the mix up.........what are the pros and cons of swapping either the Mark IV or Mark V R32 engine into a Fiero other then the 10 extra hp in the 2008?...thanks....Jay

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #118, 02-13-2008 04:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Clarksvegas88GT:

ok thanks......I re-read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VW_R32 .....2004 & 2008 ......sorry about the mix up.........what are the pros and cons of swapping either the Mark IV or Mark V R32 engine into a Fiero other then the 10 extra hp in the 2008?...thanks....Jay


The R32 engines are not cheap or easy to come by. This current swap when it is all said and done will make approx 600whp. If all goes well, I'll be bringing it out to Carlisle this year, but the turbo won't be on by then. Obviously, it won't be 600whp at that time. I will list the mods done to the VR6 and it will be run on a dyno with a stock Jetta of the same year/engine/trans combo. After the summer, the turbo mod will take place and then I'll be able to possibly keep up with FieroX.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #119, 02-13-2008 10:14 PM
      ok,
I'm home after a nice 14 hour day (four hours spent with the Fiero). I completely changed the original plans for the mounts. Using the OE VW mounts on the space frame of the Fiero just wasn't working for me. It worked, but I really wasn't happy with the outcome. So, I decided to try and just make a few sets to mount the drivetrain to the cradle. I have two of the mounts completed....I just need to paint them. I made templates for future mounts to make it easier for next time.
By the end of the week, I should have the engine mounted to the cradle for the final time. Thus far, no notching of the frame or engine compartment has needed to be done. I removed the dogbone mount for a nicer looking compartment.
I'll post pics prior to installing the engine.
The transmission is all back together and ready for abuse. Here is a link to the supplier of the differential. I'm hoping this makes a huge difference in the characteristics of the car.
http://www.mjmautohaus.com/...spd&products_id=1029
Here is a pic of the transmission ready to go back in.



FieroJimmy MSG #120, 02-14-2008 12:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:



Out of curiosity, are those CV shaft flanges bolted (or otherwise positively secured) to the diff, or are they a snap ring style, like the Fiero?

Edit to add:

This is a very cool swap, and I hope you inspire more people to think outside the box when it comes to swap ideas. It seems like everyone who swaps uses one of the same few engines, and while they are definitely upgrades, it just seems repetitive to do a swap that's already been done numerous times.

[This message has been edited by FieroJimmy (edited 02-14-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #121, 02-14-2008 06:49 AM
      The flanges are bolted in by one bolt in the center. The passenger side flange comes off to remove the transmission from the engine. They will not be there on the custom axles. I was told by the driveshaft shop that the heavy duty axles that can handle serious hp need to have inboard joints similiar to the Fiero. The options for the axles are for up to 500hp I can run VW inners and GM outer CV joints on a custom axle using the stock 100mm flange. If I am planning on making more power I need to remove the flanges and have GM style inner joints and outer joints with a custom wheel hub that can handle a bigger axle. The price I got was $700 for the standard custom axles or $1600 for the heavy duty set.........so, if anyone needs Jetta parts there is still plenty of car left...lol.
Dave


dsnover MSG #122, 02-14-2008 08:18 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

If I am planning on making more power I need to remove the flanges and have GM style inner joints and outer joints with a custom wheel hub that can handle a bigger axle. The price I got was $700 for the standard custom axles or $1600 for the heavy duty set.........so, if anyone needs Jetta parts there is still plenty of car left...lol.
Dave


This seems odd to me. Porsche has been using the flange mountings forever, and I don't recall hearing much about problems, even with the über tweaked turbo's. Of course, the flanges on a Porsche could be a lot more beefy than a VW, but still, I'd think the failure point would be something other than the flange. Perhaps the flanges and axles from a 911 or 951 (or pick a Porsche) could be made to work?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #123, 02-14-2008 08:28 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by dsnover:


This seems odd to me. Porsche has been using the flange mountings forever, and I don't recall hearing much about problems, even with the über tweaked turbo's. Of course, the flanges on a Porsche could be a lot more beefy than a VW, but still, I'd think the failure point would be something other than the flange. Perhaps the flanges and axles from a 911 or 951 (or pick a Porsche) could be made to work?


I'm just relaying what the driveshaft shop told me. VW uses 100mm flanges...Porsche might be bigger. Maybe it is the inner joint...it is pretty small. I knew the axles were going to be an issue before I started this swap, but I just planned on getting custom ones made to make it easier.
Dave


dsnover MSG #124, 02-14-2008 08:50 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


I'm just relaying what the driveshaft shop told me. VW uses 100mm flanges...Porsche might be bigger. Maybe it is the inner joint...it is pretty small. I knew the axles were going to be an issue before I started this swap, but I just planned on getting custom ones made to make it easier.
Dave


No problem. I'm particularly interested in this swap, not so much for the VR6, but for the transmission/axles, so that a TDI swap becomes do-able. I've got a 2000 Jetta TDI, now with about 225k miles. The car isn't fast, but it isn't a slouch either. A set of PP520's, a different turbo, etc, and in a Fiero, and the care would probably get 55+ MPG, and still be faster than a stock 2.8 Fiero.


megafreakindeth MSG #125, 02-14-2008 12:08 PM
      for anyone wondering what the diff is between the new r32 and the old one(or any previous vr6) its quite a bit, aside from the change from 15deg crank angle to 10deg the new one uses direct injection(injectors in combustion chamber) and tons of other stuff that would make swapping it into a standard gas car hard.

as for the flanges, they dont really fail but the inner cv joints fail under power/drag racing, also the syncros get damaged and dont exactly break but can make for challenging gear engagement. the lsd should take care of that because itll distribute the load over both axles, hopefully.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #126, 02-14-2008 12:35 PM
      I'll be regearing the transmission as needed after I do the turbo. There are tons of race gearsets/ streetgears/ final drive ratios/ etc for the 02J transmission.
Dave


KurtAKX MSG #127, 02-14-2008 03:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


I'm just relaying what the driveshaft shop told me. VW uses 100mm flanges...Porsche might be bigger. Maybe it is the inner joint...it is pretty small. I knew the axles were going to be an issue before I started this swap, but I just planned on getting custom ones made to make it easier.
Dave


Have you looked at Toronado/Riv longitudinal axles or S10 front inners? These are flange mount style yet have a tripot plunge style joint like the Fiero, and I believe they are the correct spline to slide the outer and fiero shaft right into them. It might be relatively simple to get adapter plates made to go from a 100mm flange to whatever the flange of the S10 is.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #128, 02-14-2008 05:53 PM
      I had a few hours today to make the front transmission mount. I made a few jigs to recreate the mounts for a later install if I choose to do another one. The hardest part was to ensure the engine sat just right in the bay. Too far to the passenger side and the intake would hit. Too far to the driver's side and the transmission would hit. It fits just right with little mods except for the custom mounts and axles thus far. Towards the end of the swap, I'll list the performance add ons I did to the engine and transmission (and Fiero in general). A lot of money could have been saved, but I knew what I wanted before even pulling out the engine. Obviously, this swap could have been done without the torsen type limited slip differential, Fidanza flywheel, clutch kit, port and polish...etc.
After getting this far, I could probably do this swap again without having to buy an entire car...although, I've already made back my investment and there is plenty of car left. So far, the only parts I used from the donor were: engine with accessories (but all were replaced with new), transmission (redone with LSD), wiring harnesses (one is inexpensive new from VW, but the other is worth buying the car for...it is over $1000), gas pedal with wiring. I think that is everything....my mind is exhausted.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #129, 02-14-2008 05:56 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:


Have you looked at Toronado/Riv longitudinal axles or S10 front inners? These are flange mount style yet have a tripot plunge style joint like the Fiero, and I believe they are the correct spline to slide the outer and fiero shaft right into them. It might be relatively simple to get adapter plates made to go from a 100mm flange to whatever the flange of the S10 is.


as for the axles, the lengths are not anywhere close to stock. I set the engine in to suit my needs not for the axles. I'm also going to be building a second VR6 that will be built to handle around 30lbs of boost. I want the engine to break before my axles...and I don't want the engine to break.
Dave


anonymity MSG #130, 02-15-2008 09:50 PM
      (continued from the "fed up...." thread)


Is it done yet?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #131, 02-19-2008 06:44 PM
      Here is an update of where I stand with this swap. I ran into a problem today. When I pulled the mock-up transmission off the engine, I found a hairline crack in the lower timing cover. So, I have to order one from VW, hopefully I'll have it in a few days.
So, the timing covers have been removed and we are kind of stuck until I get another cover.


I'm not sure if I mentioned this, but I have decided to mount the engine to the cradle and not the space frame. When it was mounted to the space frame, I had too much movement out of the engine using the VW mounts. It can be done easily, but I am looking for rubber left on the road and little slop in the drivetrain. So, I finally have mounts made to use the stock transmission mounting points and made a mount for the engine. The cradle needed a slight mod done to it which took about 15 minutes. There was a little trimming needed near the rear mount to give adequate clearance for the VW transmission. Also, the stock engine mount bracket had to be removed to clear the oil pan. I am mounting the engine to the cradle's frame rail slightly forward of the control arm. No cutting or grinding is needed anywhere else for this swap. Here is a pic of the trimming needed near the rear transmission mount.


Otherwise, the engine is ready to go in the car for the final time. It has only been in and out maybe ten times for proper fitting, and reorganizing myself to mount it differently. Once I have the timing cover and reassemble the engine it should be iinstalled within a few hours.
Here is a pic of me fabricating one of the jigs for the mounts. Basically, I could do the next VR6 swap in a lot less time now that I have the formula. All the mounts are made by hand out of 3/16" steel. Welded and reinforced. That was time consuming to cut the steel, notch it, weld it and make it look pretty. If I still had access to a CNC machine, it would have been better IMO, but I am finally happy with the current results.

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 03-04-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #132, 02-20-2008 09:46 PM
      Allrighty,
We got the timing cover and reassembled the engine. The transmission is bolted on and the engine is ready for install. In the pics you can see the engine mounted to the cradle. I ran a little behind today and didn't get to put it in. Hopefully, I'll have some free time tomorrow or Friday.
Once the engine is in, it will be on to the wiring and drive axles.
Dave




FieroJimmy MSG #133, 02-20-2008 10:10 PM
      Just a thought, but you may want to throw some spindles on there, and measure for your axles before you get it in the car.

Unless you're planning on just sending the whole car out for them.



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #134, 02-21-2008 04:20 PM
      I was going to measure the axles out of the car, but the struts camber angle would need to be precise. The VW inner joints don't have as much movement as the GM. The difference is a few inches.
Anyway, here is where we leave off for the week. The engine is in and mounted. The upper intake manifold is off so that the wiring can be done. Normally on the VR6 the intake comes off for everything. I had to make it accessible for repairs without tilting the cradle. So, it looks like that won't be an issue. Everything has more than enough space and it looks like there is more room to work on the engine than in the Jetta.
Here are the pics.



darkhorizon MSG #135, 02-21-2008 04:40 PM
      I can measure axles within a 1/2 inch with the suspension out of the car, the amount that it can be off is very small, and its quite obvious about where the suspension sits.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #136, 02-21-2008 05:55 PM
      I was originally going to measure the axles out of the car, but there really is no hinderance measuring them in the car. I want to make sure to get the full travel of the axle as well. In the car is the way to go for that. There is a lot more room than expected in the engine bay....just enough for a turbo...
Anyway the axles and wiring, as well as the fly by wire throttle configuration are the next step.
Dave


darkhorizon MSG #137, 02-22-2008 01:56 AM
      I made sure I measured with the axle seated in the trans, and had the outer removed, and I went from there.

What are you going to do about the outers? I have seen people in the past just use the donar car's knuckle and wheel bearings, its not all that hard of a swap if you do a coil over setup.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #138, 02-22-2008 06:53 AM
      The easiest way to do the axles is to have the driveshaft shop make a set. I was going to use the VW knuckle, but then I'd have to make another set of coil overs with the VW strut. The problem with that is the VW axles are not the correct lengths. It is just easier to measure and make a phone call and wait for the little brown truck to show up.
Dave


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #139, 02-22-2008 06:59 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

The easiest way to do the axles is to have the driveshaft shop make a set. I was going to use the VW knuckle, but then I'd have to make another set of coil overs with the VW strut. The problem with that is the VW axles are not the correct lengths. It is just easier to measure and make a phone call and wait for the little brown truck to show up.
Dave
we like little brown trucks with big parts


Ravant MSG #140, 02-23-2008 03:40 PM
      Now to ask a question.

What are the chances of any of the new DSG's fitting this engine in a swap of this nature?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #141, 02-23-2008 08:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Ravant:

Now to ask a question.

What are the chances of any of the new DSG's fitting this engine in a swap of this nature?


it ll depends on how far someone would want to take it. Personally, I have a few more VW swaps up my sleeve. The DSG hasn't really crossed my mind. Yes it is a faster shifting tranny, but I like the old school stick better. I'm just not a fan of the paddle shift stuff....too girly for me. When I build a car, the first priority is making it fun to drive. Everything else comes second.
But, I'm sure that it can be done. When you transplant the drivetrain from a whole car, it is a lot eaier than trying to make the electronics work independantly from each other. Having a car with a CAN line is a lot better to work with when something fails.
Dave



Richjk21 MSG #142, 02-23-2008 09:16 PM
      Too girly for me ........ said the guy with the gay orange car


Right Joey


All kidding aside... this is a pretty impressive swap.


Rich


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #143, 02-23-2008 09:19 PM
      LMAO....
remind me to up the life insurance on my wife and personally thank her for making my five year project known as the gay orange Fiero.
It's all good, though.
Dave


Richjk21 MSG #144, 02-23-2008 09:26 PM
      Let me know once you get the insurance squared away ... I know a guy

anonymity MSG #145, 02-23-2008 09:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Richjk21:

Too girly for me ........ said the guy with the gay orange car


Right Joey


All kidding aside... this is a pretty impressive swap.


Rich


I'm so glad I that his 5 years of hard work is paying off..... And he thought it might have been known for the engine with the Webers Hahaha.

The VR6 swap is going smoothly, so far..... I would love to be able to drive my car soon.... gotta finish wiring and stuff maybe it'll be done by the time I get back from Louisiana trip in the end of March.

Joey



anonymity MSG #146, 02-23-2008 09:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Richjk21:

Let me know once you get the insurance squared away ... I know a guy



Excuuuuusssse meeeeee!!! LOL

I'll be doing the brakes on Dave's car soon.... Gee, I hope they'll work ok
Joey


Ravant MSG #147, 02-23-2008 10:06 PM
      The more I look at this swap, the more enticing it becomes. It seems to be quite a bit of an easier time than the folks with the LNF and LSJ are having. Definitely unique, and definitely something to keep an eye on. I like the idea of a quick-shifting DSG, especially if I plan for a turbo, but don't like paddle-shifting up at the steering wheel. It's gotta be a tap-shift unit down at the gear selector, IMO. Shouldn't be too hard to fabricate, for a future idea. I've still not started any work towards an engine swap on my Fiero yet. Still up in the air around a V8, possibly the VR6 (now that it looks possible), or one of the Ecotec motors. Did you catch how much the VR6 and the stick shift weighed before installing it? That'd be a nice tidbit of info to leave available for people who may look to do a similar swap.

Also - how are you taking care of the shift pattern? Every time I see a transverse FWD system moved to our cars, the H-pattern seems reversed. Either I'm not looking hard enough, or it's a perplexing problem not enough people are taking care of. What's your method?

[This message has been edited by Ravant (edited 02-23-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #148, 02-23-2008 10:15 PM
      The googled weight of the VR6, trans, wiring, accessories such as alternator etc is 575lbs.
The shift pattern of the 02J trans is reverse is up and to the left. Just like the Fiero four speed with one extra gear for fifth.
The biggest downside to this swap is the price. The APF engine goes for an average of over $2000 for one with 60k.I got lucky with the price of the whole car. Plus all the mods are about 4x the price of a 3800. So, to get 600whp, I'll need to invest about $12,000 into the drivetrain.....or keep parting out the Jetta as I go and then get another Jetta or GTI to part.....and so on.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 02-23-2008).]

Ravant MSG #149, 02-23-2008 10:27 PM
      Thanks for the info.

FieroJimmy MSG #150, 02-23-2008 10:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

The googled weight of the VR6, trans, wiring, accessories such as alternator etc is 575lbs.
The shift pattern of the 02J trans is reverse is up and to the left. Just like the Fiero four speed with one extra gear for fifth.
The biggest downside to this swap is the price. The APF engine goes for an average of over $2000 for one with 60k.I got lucky with the price of the whole car. Plus all the mods are about 4x the price of a 3800. So, to get 600whp, I'll need to invest about $12,000 into the drivetrain.....or keep parting out the Jetta as I go and then get another Jetta or GTI to part.....and so on.
Dave



The shift pattern problem he's talking about comes from the shifter cables approaching the trans from the "wrong" side of the engine. In the Jetta, the cables come from the rear of the mounted driveline, but in the Fiero, the cables come from the front. The result is the shift pattern is inverted (In this case, reverse would be where it is in the 5-speed Fiero, but 1st would be where 4th is.)

From looking at the pictures you've posted, I can't tell just how the cables are oriented on the trans, but it could be an issue to deal with.

Either you could get custom cables long enough to wrap around the engine bay and approach the driveline like it did in the Jetta, or it may be possible to re-work the linkage on the trans to allow the shift forks to move in the right direction.


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #151, 02-24-2008 02:01 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroJimmy:


The shift pattern problem he's talking about comes from the shifter cables approaching the trans from the "wrong" side of the engine. In the Jetta, the cables come from the rear of the mounted driveline, but in the Fiero, the cables come from the front. The result is the shift pattern is inverted (In this case, reverse would be where it is in the 5-speed Fiero, but 1st would be where 4th is.)

From looking at the pictures you've posted, I can't tell just how the cables are oriented on the trans, but it could be an issue to deal with.

Either you could get custom cables long enough to wrap around the engine bay and approach the driveline like it did in the Jetta, or it may be possible to re-work the linkage on the trans to allow the shift forks to move in the right direction.


Great posts. Thanks Dave. Love the pictures. That engine really looks happy in there.

I was wondering the same thing FieroJimmy was, myself.
Most swap threads I've studied, people tend to redesign the linkage somehow and add metal brackets to fix that issue. (either on the shifter side, or the tranny side)
My question: - I'm still learning - Wouldn't it be cheaper/easier/faster to just get longer cables that have enough slack to go around, so that they face from the right side?
Aren't these shifter cables just the exact equivalent as the shifter cables on mountainbikes (meaning a metal wire, inside a flexible sleve)? - Just thicker wires? (just making sure they don't kink anywhere as a precaution)

[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 02-24-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #152, 02-24-2008 09:38 AM
      The trans cable issue has already been worked out. I'll post details when I get to that part of the swap....with pictures

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #153, 02-24-2008 02:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

The trans cable issue has already been worked out. I'll post details when I get to that part of the swap....with pictures


Thanks. There is no such thing as too many pictures
We loooove pictures


Richjk21 MSG #154, 03-01-2008 11:44 AM
      Bump - any progress ?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #155, 03-01-2008 11:50 AM
      I've been busy with customer's cars all week long....I'm leaving the house in an hour to go to work on the VR6 for about six hours today...I should have some decent progress by tonight.
...and yes, Max....I'll post some pics....lol.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 03-01-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #156, 03-01-2008 07:36 PM
      ok, I wanted to make a correction. I previously stated that the engine mounts were made from 1/8" steel....oops. It was supposed to say 3/16" steel. 1/8" is a little thin in my opinion.
As of now, the rear suspension has been reinstalled. The fuel system is 100% completed and the cooling system is about 50% done. I spent today going over a lot of the wiring harness details, plumbing the fuel lines and installing the upper intake manifold for the final time as well as the rear suspension install and I ordered some more performance goodies for the VR6.
The good news about this swap was when I discovered that if I use a clutch slave cylinder from a 1996 GTI 02A. The 02J slave has a push in type of hose whereas the 02a has the threaded hole with the same threads as the Fiero. The only issue is that the clutch line must be lengthened by about 7 inches to reach the VW slave....no biggie.
I'm hoping to have the cooling system completed with the OE red VW coolant by the end of the week.



[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 03-04-2008).]

Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #157, 03-06-2008 08:55 PM
      Bump for the latest - and so I can keep track. This one fell off my tracker.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #158, 03-07-2008 06:05 PM
      I have been working on the swap this week, but I haven't had much time for posting about it. I've been a little excited about my other car getting finished.
Anyway, here are the goodies that I am doing this week....
First off, the clutch line had to be lengthed. That was pretty easy using Rodney Dickman's clutch line repair kit. It gave me the extra length needed to reach the VW clutch slave. Ironically, the VW clutch slave's thread size is the same as the Fiero. I may need to repace the VW clutch master, but we'll see if the Fiero master can work the proper ratio with the slave to operate the clutch.

Also, the VW has issues with breaking the PLASTIC shift selector arm. I have no clue why thy made them out of plastic, but I get cars towed in all the time that can only be shifted into third and fourth. The best is when they drive them in and it needs a clutch and the arm. Anyway, I update to the aluminum arm. Gruvenparts.com is the best place to find this part. Here is a pic of the aluminum arm and the factory plastic. The aluminum arm also has less throw, which is nice.

Aside from that, I've been working on the cooling system. I want a lot of the system to use metal piping rather than rubber hose. The problem with the VR6 is that the upper and lower radiator hoses come off the same thermostat housing on the driver's side of the car. So, I welded up some pipe from exhaust J-bends. Ground the welds smooth and then pressure tested them. Once done, I painted it and used insulated clamps from summit racing to secure the pipe against the firewall.

Those clamps are nice. I secured the fuel lines, clutch line and just about anything that is hanging loose with them. It really cleans up the engine bay.
The other issue I ran into is the expansion tank. I made a securing bracket and I am going to locate it under the driver's side engine vent. It has to be at the highest point because it is also part of the cooling system under pressure. It is a pressurized overflow tank.
Other than that, it is coming along. The axles should be in my hands by the end of next week. Hopefully by then the cooling system will be completed and then on to the shifter cables. I'm going to leave the wiring modifications and ECU programming to the end because there is really no parts needed to do that....just peace and quiet.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #159, 03-07-2008 06:14 PM
      I also forgot to mention that the factory throttle body does not fit with the stock Fiero trunk. So, I really wanted to run the fly by wire throttle, so thanks to German engineering, I turned the throttle body 90 degrees and bolted it up. No more clearance issues. the calibration is done during routine servicing called "Basic Settings". That is when the tech takes the VW laptop and sets the throttle valve and automatic transmission kickdown. I normally reset the throttle adaptation during routing services for all my customers.

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 03-07-2008).]

Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #160, 03-17-2008 03:19 AM
      Having just purchased a 12V VR6 MkII Jetta, I now understand VERY well why you want to put one in a Fiero. These motors have the sexiest sound, very reminiscent of the old 911 Porsche, and pull strong all the way thru the the power band. I can only imagine what the 24V motor you're planning will be like. Yowzah, yowzah, yowzah!!!
You're gonna need to schedule a flight physical...

I see one other HUGE advantage to this setup---FINALLY!!! A V-configuration motor in a Fiero that is as easy to change the plugs on as a four-cylinder engine...

[This message has been edited by Vonov (edited 03-17-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #161, 03-17-2008 05:45 AM
      It seems that everything is easy to get at in the back of the Fiero.
I've made little progress this week, but not enough to warrant a bump. I've been a little busy helping Joey get ready for her trip and playing with my orange Fiero that came back from the body shop recently.
As of next week, I should be making some decent progress as Joey and the kids will be out of state.
The sound of the VR6 I wouldn't compare to the 911. It is really hard to compare it to anything....but I love the sound.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #162, 03-18-2008 11:20 AM
      A little brown truck arrived at my shop with a big package. I was all set to install my new custom axles, but unfortunately, the inners are for the wrong VW transmission. Called the driveshaft shaop and I should have the correct inner joints in a day or two. They sent me ones for the 02A transmission. I am using the 02J transmission. No biggie, just a small delay.


For the cooling system I am using a lot of 1.5" J-bends welded and pressure checked. They hold 100psi, so I think they will be good for the cooling system. Here is the return pipe....as best of a shot I can get in the car. The outlet pipe is still in the bench vice for the last week. I think the holiday rush of customers might die down soon, and I'll hopefully get the cooling system completed.

more updates at the end of this week.
Dave


FieroJimmy MSG #163, 03-18-2008 11:30 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I was all set to install my new custom axles, but unfortunately, the inners are for the wrong VW transmission.


D'oh! At least that's not the only thing keeping you from driving it.


litespd MSG #164, 03-21-2008 12:48 AM
      And a bump to get this back up to Page 1....

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #165, 03-21-2008 02:11 AM
      We just got up to get Joey and the kids ready for their trip. I unfortunately will not be able to go back to sleep after they leave, or I'll be wiped out for the rest of the day, so I guess I'll have to go down to the shop and start digging in to the swap.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #166, 03-21-2008 04:30 PM
      I made some progress today. i had an early start, but then had to tend to customer's vehicles. Tomorrow is 10 hours of pure VR6 work, though.
Anyway, I took a pic of the new inner CV joints. You can see the size difference between the O2A and 02J transmissions. The 02J which I am using is on the left.

Here is a shot of the driver's side axle installed.


Now, I've been reading how a lot of members have difficulty bleeding out the clutch. I've bled the clutch in all my Fieros in under ten minutes with no issues. Here is the trick.....

Here is an action shot...lol.

Tomorrow I start the wiring and computer modifications and hopefully finalize the cooling system. If there is time, I'm going to build a battery box and route the third harness.
Dave



Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #167, 03-21-2008 06:18 PM
      Looks great!

Good call with the fluid feeder on the front when bleeding the clutch. I guess you had to modify a clutch fill cap for that to work?

Thanks for not including a shot of you relaxing in the buff with the video game and Killians when today's work was done. I haven't eaten yet!

We'll be watching for the results of tomorrows 10-hours-of-VR.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #168, 03-21-2008 07:47 PM
      The adapter I used on the clutch master is the same as just about all German brake master cylinders, so it screwed right on.
Anyway, I'm getting ready for bed and hoping to get a fresh start in the morning
Dave


Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #169, 03-21-2008 08:21 PM
      Cool! How much can I buy one of those for?

Silentassassin185 (silentassassin185@gmail.com) MSG #170, 03-21-2008 10:21 PM
      I started looking for one of those today after having issues with my Dad's 88 5spd. They have one here for GM vehicles (Fiero included ) for about 60 bucks

[This message has been edited by Silentassassin185 (edited 03-21-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #171, 03-22-2008 06:31 AM
      The one I have is about ten years old. It has a few adapters for different cars, but I seem to only use the round screw on one for the German master cylinders. I do on average about six brake fluid flushes a week. The cool part is it gets its pressure from the vehicle's tire. Just put on the adapter. Plug in the quick connect and then put the hose on the tire's valve stem. There is a built in regulator that is adjustable.
I have no idea of the brand it is. That faded off years ago. It has probably been used a few thousand times and is still working fine.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 03-22-2008).]

FieroJimmy MSG #172, 03-22-2008 09:10 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

The one I have is about ten years old. It has a few adapters for different cars, but I seem to only use the round screw on one for the German master cylinders. I do on average about six brake fluid flushes a week. The cool part is it gets its pressure from the vehicle's tire. Just put on the adapter. Plug in the quick connect and then put the hose on the tire's valve stem. There is a built in regulator that is adjustable.
I have no idea of the brand it is. That faded off years ago. It has probably been used a few thousand times and is still working fine.
Dave



This is exactly why it is important to buy quality tools. You can buy cheap stuff at the auto parts store, but don't expect it to last more than about three uses. And, quality tools pay for themselves just in the aggravation they save.

And, it gets it's air from the tire? That's great, it keeps them from needing to regulate shop air down to something reasonable, and makes sure if the car is stuck out in the lot, you can still use it.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #173, 03-22-2008 11:09 AM
      I'm taking five from the VR6 for a minute...(that's an ironic joke).
Anyway, I looked and the bleeder case still has the name on it. It is "Speedi Bleed"....made in Canana. i have the master kit.
Dave
back to the swap....I'll post pics tonight



anonymity MSG #174, 03-22-2008 02:07 PM
      Well?!?!? You got a good night sleep... so where are the latest pics of the progress? Are you gonna have it done when I come home tomorrow? (j/k)

Joey

BTW, your girlfriend says, "Hey, baby!"


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #175, 03-22-2008 06:12 PM
      Today we have the cooling system 100% completed. Strangely enough, I think I spent about 25 hours total fabricating the cooling system. When I did my V8, I think it took me three hours (my V8 has solid pipes at the engine...very little rubber hose).
Anyway, the cooling system on the VR6 is a little more involved than the SBC.
I finished making the feed line to the radiator. I mounted it to the forward transmission mount (which has a nice plate on the front for the pipe bracket.)


I think the Fiero is going to be a little spoiled....


I welded a bracket where the FP and A/C relays used to go. Painted it and then mounted the expansion tank to the bracket. This has to be the highest point in the cooling system and can't hit the vent above it. Kind of tricky, but I got it just right on the first try.


There are tight clearances on the hoses, so I used the factory hose "rubber thingies"...they keep the hose from rubbing against the engine.


Mixed up the genuine VW/Audi coolant...a 50-50 mix.


Here is the trick to bleeding out your Fieros cooling system.


Here is a pic showing the clearance as well at the cooling system filled. Notice I added a cooling system filter to the system to catch any debris that may be in the engine or anywhere in the cooling system.

Here is a better shot of the clearance....just right.



Tomorrow, I plan on spending a few hours at the shop in the afternoon. Hopefully, I'll have some more decent progress.
Dave


Kemp3 (jckemp3@sonic.net) MSG #176, 03-22-2008 09:37 PM
      Amazing work you have done , I hope to hear it running soon cant wait to see some videos .

Thank you for your new approach to engine swaps in Fieros !


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #177, 03-22-2008 10:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Kemp3:

Amazing work you have done , I hope to hear it running soon cant wait to see some videos .

Thank you for your new approach to engine swaps in Fieros !


Carmel Valley? Wow!! Cool. We're practically neighbors. I'm in Monterey, CA. You have a PM.


anonymity MSG #178, 03-23-2008 08:12 AM
      Looking good, honey. Keep up the good work!

I can't wait to be able to drive my fiero again.

Joey


spud07 (udropedsumthng@aol.com) MSG #179, 03-23-2008 10:44 AM
      i have an 88 fiero .2.5L would it be possible for me to do something like that with mine live vr6 swap.but automatic.is there like a kit or something.or does it bolt right up besides the drive axles.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #180, 03-23-2008 10:52 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by spud07:

i have an 88 fiero .2.5L would it be possible for me to do something like that with mine live vr6 swap.but automatic.is there like a kit or something.or does it bolt right up besides the drive axles.


I've made everything from scratch. The automatic would be possible using the VW transmission. I could have done this swap easier using a stand alone ECM, but I wanted to see how practical it would be to make it using the VW ECM. In my opinion, this swap is more complicated than any swap I have done so far, but it probably won't be the hardest swap I'll be doing...I already have the next swap for my third Fiero planned.
Dave


Hudini (hudini@tds.net) MSG #181, 03-23-2008 11:50 AM
      I hope it turns out well. You have done some very nice work.

How hard is it to tune the VW ECM?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #182, 03-23-2008 12:00 PM
      I just got everything set up to do the wiring and ECM work today. I just had a bottle of the "Nectar of the Gods" to get me going....aka Mountain Dew for you non believers. I have 39 pages of wiring diagrams to go through and shorten/remove/reroute the wiring.
I don't think it is too hard to modify the VW programming, but then again I do this everyday for a living. Some people think carpentry is easy....If I build a box out of wood, it will not be square and fall apart as soon as it is moved.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 03-23-2008).]

FieroMaster88 (fast88fiero@yahoo.com) MSG #183, 03-23-2008 12:44 PM
      Looking great! You're really making me think about a BMW V8 in my 84 Fiero.



spud07 (udropedsumthng@aol.com) MSG #184, 03-23-2008 05:06 PM
      i have an lt1 i was plan on installing in the fiero..um as far as transmission shld i upgrade .to like a gt model tranni.if so would i have to modify brackets for that gt tranny?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #185, 03-23-2008 05:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by spud07:

i have an lt1 i was plan on installing in the fiero..um as far as transmission shld i upgrade .to like a gt model tranni.if so would i have to modify brackets for that gt tranny?


V8 Archie is the man to talk to about your V8 swap questions.
www.V8archie.com


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #186, 03-23-2008 05:51 PM
      I spent the last five hours making one of the engine harnesses. I took the connector apart at the computer and removed the wiring by the pins for a cleaner look. Right now, it is not in a loom, but I want to lay it on the engine and see where it needs to be extended and shortened. Incorporating it to work with the GM electronics shouldn't be too difficult. The hardest part was going through the 39 pages of diagrams and figuring out where each wire goes into another module. Then removing the body module from the circuit and completing the wiring back to the ECM. This is a CAN car, so the modules all talk to each other.
So, in a few hours I should be able to have the wiring loomed and installed. Tomorrow or Tuesday the battery will be installed and the last harness for the starting and charging system will be added. I am keeping the wiring as close to VW stock as possible to make it easier to diagnose when something goes wrong.
We just may have it ready for Joey when she gets back.
Dave


anonymity MSG #187, 03-23-2008 08:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

We just may have it ready for Joey when she gets back.
Dave


Who is "WE"?!?!?

It's great that you're hoping to have it done for when I get back, do you really think it will be? Thats an awful lot of wiring to go through. I would have liked to have been there to help you with that.... but I probably would've been in your way... or messing sh*t up.

Joey


whadeduck (richardjborton@gmail.com) MSG #188, 03-23-2008 10:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by anonymity:
Who is "WE"?!?!?


Dave and his Mt. Dew of course.



Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #189, 03-23-2008 11:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by whadeduck:

Dave and his Mt. Dew of course.



Or his Killians...


HC MSG #190, 03-24-2008 01:26 PM
      Really impressive work man, you make me very jealous!

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #191, 03-24-2008 04:46 PM
      Thanks for the compliments.
I'm too pooped to even look at the VR6 swap today. The weekend killed me. I think I'm going to try and get a quick workout in and eat more bacon and eggs, drink a Killians and watch reruns tonight.
Tomorrow night I'm planning on logging a few hours, so I should have some updates then.
Dave


fierohobby MSG #192, 03-24-2008 05:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
Thanks for the compliments.
I'm too pooped to even look at the VR6 swap today. The weekend killed me. I think I'm going to try and get a quick workout in and eat more bacon and eggs, drink a Killians and watch reruns tonight.
Tomorrow night I'm planning on logging a few hours, so I should have some updates then.
Dave


Dude, you mean you get tired? You've been going at this thing like a machine. You make it look too easy.

BTW, this is one of my favorite threads. Lovin' the way it's coming together, can't wait for the video!

-fh


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #193, 03-24-2008 06:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fierohobby:


Dude, you mean you get tired? You've been going at this thing like a machine. You make it look too easy.

BTW, this is one of my favorite threads. Lovin' the way it's coming together, can't wait for the video!

-fh


I'd have to agree with you on the machine part. I start my day working 10 hours on customer's German cars and then spend another three or four hours working on the VR6. I pulled 30 hours on Saturday and Sunday on the swap. Even tonight while taking the night off, I'm looming the wiring harness at my house and writing down the plan for to make the gauges work properly.
The worst part is I gave up an addiction this weekend and my head is pounding.....energy drinks. But I started feeling like crap when I was drinking them, so I thought it was a good time to quit.
Joey and the kids should be home on Friday....unless they get detained at FieroAngel's place and then Saxman's place, so I'm going to put the pressure on this week to get somewhat close to done.
I am up in the air if I am going to use the interior harness from the Jetta or just make my own. Either way, I'm looking at about the same amount of labor.
Dave



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #194, 03-24-2008 07:04 PM
      Here are some more pics I forgot to post.
Here is the wiring diagram for the powertrain management. Now there is more wiring in the power and grounds and then the body systems. Trying to incorporate this to work in the Fiero is fun. 39 pages in all....and that doesn't include the Fiero wiring I have to go through. The VW uses track style wiring. Meaning that each page is a continuation of the previous page.


My poor interior. Hopefully, I'll have it back together soon, but it will have to come apart much further than this before that happens. Maybe time for some Mr. Mike's seats. mmmm

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 03-24-2008).]

Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #195, 03-24-2008 07:20 PM
      If you need me to delay Joey when (if) she makes it here, let me know. You need another day? If so, I'll get a horse in the back yard or something to make sure she takes her time

I keep thinking about the lesson in wiring I could get if you were closer. I'd be hanging at your shop constantly! Keep up the great work. Good idea to break one small addiction while the fam is away.

Cars are my best therapy - but I don't do them for a living. You must be car-man of the year or something!


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #196, 03-26-2008 07:16 PM
      I'm taking a few days off the VR6 to clear my head of working on Fieros....well not really. My shop is beyond busy...which is very good for me, and I've needed to clear my head a little on the VR6 swap.
So, to clear my head, I've decided to do the finishing touches on my GOF (orange V8 Fiero). When I got it back from the body shop, the front left marker lights were not working and the cluster was illuminated when using the blinker. I got that mess (corroded ground wire) traced out and repaired. And then my one headlight motor stripped out, so that had to be repaired. I'm driving the car to a local MINI Cooper meet on Friday, so it has to be ready. (maybe they won't notice it is not a MINI).
Anyway, I hope to have a fresh start next week.
Dave



Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #197, 03-26-2008 09:22 PM
      If east coast MINI people have a similar sense of humor as west coast MINI people - I bet they do.
Just say it's a "counterfeit MINI" if they ask. http://www.counterfeitmini.org/
____________
(to the uninitiated, the above was a ingenius marketing campaign launched by MINI a few years ago. Very successful too.)


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #198, 03-26-2008 09:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

If east coast MINI people have a similar sense of humor as west coast MINI people - I bet they do.
Just say it's a "counterfeit MINI" if they ask. http://www.counterfeitmini.org/
____________
(to the uninitiated, the above was a ingenius marketing campaign launched by MINI a few years ago. Very successful too.)


LMAO.
I will definitely use that!


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #199, 04-01-2008 04:23 PM
      Allrighty,
I took a few days to clear my head and I had some progress on the Fiero swap today. I decided to mount the battery in the stock location, but I wasn't happy with the way GM had set it up...plus I am not a fan of side mount batteries. I went with the Optima battery, which had a greater CCA than the factory Jetta battery at a smaller size.



Added 5w40 Mobil 1 and Redline M/T fluid.


I spent hours getting the wiring harness pinned out. VW does not have a pin out chart for the VR6. So, I had to make one and figure out how to incorporate it to work with the GM fusebox and relays. I have about 90 pages of wiring diagrams from both cars and eight hand written pages on how to make the stuff work. I kept the CAN lines in the car and I may be using the VW cluster (not sure yet, but I left the wiring there in case if I do.)
Added the engine covers again and installed the spark plug wires....how's that for an easy tune up???



Tomorrow the little brown truck should be dropping off my battery cables, so I may hear it run by the end of the week.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 04-01-2008).]

FXRseen (fxrseen20@hotmail.com) MSG #200, 04-01-2008 09:37 PM
      I'm curious, with all your electrical know how are you going to be doing a custom interior or dash swap along with the engine? These things interest me.

Fieroseverywhere (caalon777@hotmail.com) MSG #201, 04-01-2008 10:27 PM
      Fits like a glove. Very nice work! The rest of us can only dream of tuneups that easy. What about fixing an exhaust manifold?Nicely done.


EDIT: Page 6 OWNAGE!

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-01-2008).]

fieroman87 (fieroman87@juno.com) MSG #202, 04-02-2008 02:03 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

The worst part is I gave up an addiction this weekend and my head is pounding.....energy drinks. But I started feeling like crap when I was drinking them, so I thought it was a good time to quit.
Dave


do yourself a favor and stay away from anything containing Aspertame... that's bad stuff being touted as an artificial sweetener. it causes lots of bad things and can't be processed properly by the body (because it's synthetic, and it's bad). if you're looking for an energy boost, try an orange. it's natural and has a boatload of vitamin C (good stuff)



Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #203, 04-02-2008 02:20 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroman87:


do yourself a favor and stay away from anything containing Aspertame... that's bad stuff being touted as an artificial sweetener. it causes lots of bad things and can't be processed properly by the body (because it's synthetic, and it's bad). if you're looking for an energy boost, try an orange. it's natural and has a boatload of vitamin C (good stuff)



I have to second that. I had an ex gf that had a lot of health problems partly because of Aspartame. Really bad stuff. We replaced the Aspartame with Splenda and a whole lot of her problems went away or decreased in severity. Plus it tastes better. It's like 15.000 times as sweet as sugar, vs. Aspartames 12.000 or so times. Me likes sugar.


Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #204, 04-02-2008 02:27 AM
      green tea with caffeine is good for energy..its not going to hurt to add 12 grams ..about 3 sugar cubes for sweetening + green tea cold or hot is loaded with antioxidants and guys, its also good for your prostate. Just keep yoursugar consumtion in check and it will keep you from being tired crappy ..
diabetics need more monitoring of course


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #205, 04-02-2008 06:46 AM
      I was mixing weight lifting energy drinks from GNC and Monster drinks....I gave up the Monster, I tried but I couldn't break away from the GNC stuff. It is mostly NoX and creatine...and caffine. I drink water the rest of the day...and a beer or two at night.
As for the exhaust manifolds....I can remove them in the car with ease. Same goes for the intake and cylinder head...and oil pan (without cradle drop). I'm planning on swapping to a short ram intake when I add the turbo, so it will be on the window side. The only modification I will have to do will be to the throttle body wiring to move it to the other side of the head.
It looks like I'm going to modify the passenger side decklid to fit just right, but I don't think it will too bad.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #206, 04-02-2008 06:58 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FXRseen:

I'm curious, with all your electrical know how are you going to be doing a custom interior or dash swap along with the engine? These things interest me.


I honestly haven't planned out the interior yet. I am leaving my options open in case if I plan on using the VW cluster or VDO gauges. The Fiero gauges won't read properly. The CAN line goes into the VW cluster and the laptop can read the module for the cluster, so I might go that route....I'm really undecided at this point.
Dave


Fieroseverywhere (caalon777@hotmail.com) MSG #207, 04-02-2008 10:26 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

As for the exhaust manifolds....I can remove them in the car with ease. Same goes for the intake and cylinder head...and oil pan (without cradle drop). I'm planning on swapping to a short ram intake when I add the turbo, so it will be on the window side. The only modification I will have to do will be to the throttle body wiring to move it to the other side of the head.
It looks like I'm going to modify the passenger side decklid to fit just right, but I don't think it will too bad.
Dave


Cool. I was hoping you'd say something like that. Looks like the perfect motor for a fiero.


PC Oldskool MSG #208, 04-02-2008 03:03 PM
      Did you get yourself a Bentley Manual for the MK4? If not, you should... it contains all of the electrical diagrams and mechanical info you will ever need for that motor and gearbox. Runs about $80.

Also, parts4vws.com, germanautoparts.com. and mjmautohaus.com are great places to get good OEM and aftermarket parts for cheap.

http://www.parts4vws.com/ca...PartNumber=LPV800120


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #209, 04-02-2008 03:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by PC Oldskool:

Did you get yourself a Bentley Manual for the MK4? If not, you should... it contains all of the electrical diagrams and mechanical info you will ever need for that motor and gearbox. Runs about $80.

Also, parts4vws.com, germanautoparts.com. and mjmautohaus.com are great places to get good OEM and aftermarket parts for cheap.

http://www.parts4vws.com/ca...PartNumber=LPV800120


I have the Bentley manuals and Alldata. VW does not provide pinouts for their connectors like other manufacturers. Germanautoparts.com buys their parts from Worldpac....same as me. I do have an account with MJM...that's where I got the Peloquin LSD from. Basically, the diagrams were not the issue...it was the pinouts.
Dave


mtownfiero (andrewj592@aol.com) MSG #210, 04-02-2008 08:49 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I was mixing weight lifting energy drinks from GNC and Monster drinks....I gave up the Monster, I tried but I couldn't break away from the GNC stuff. It is mostly NoX and creatine...and caffine. I drink water the rest of the day...and a beer or two at night.
As for the exhaust manifolds....I can remove them in the car with ease. Same goes for the intake and cylinder head...and oil pan (without cradle drop). I'm planning on swapping to a short ram intake when I add the turbo, so it will be on the window side. The only modification I will have to do will be to the throttle body wiring to move it to the other side of the head.
It looks like I'm going to modify the passenger side decklid to fit just right, but I don't think it will too bad.
Dave


uhh creatine without tons of water in your system will mess with your stomach and muscles pretty badly. Also if you take it for to long it will shut down your bodys natural creatine production. If you've been taking the creatine for a long period of time you have to ease off it because stopping completely at first would do more damage than good. Also probably not a good mix with beer.



doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #211, 04-03-2008 12:48 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mtownfiero:


uhh creatine without tons of water in your system will mess with your stomach and muscles pretty badly. Also if you take it for to long it will shut down your bodys natural creatine production. If you've been taking the creatine for a long period of time you have to ease off it because stopping completely at first would do more damage than good. Also probably not a good mix with beer.


creatine monohydrate is worse, you need lots of water because of the retention. Kre-alkyl creatine isn't as bad. Just keep everything in moderation.


PC Oldskool MSG #212, 04-03-2008 10:47 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


I have the Bentley manuals and Alldata. VW does not provide pinouts for their connectors like other manufacturers. Germanautoparts.com buys their parts from Worldpac....same as me. I do have an account with MJM...that's where I got the Peloquin LSD from. Basically, the diagrams were not the issue...it was the pinouts.
Dave


I didn't realize you had an automotive shop...



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #213, 04-03-2008 11:43 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by PC Oldskool:


I didn't realize you had an automotive shop...


yeah, just German cars....and my Fieros. I get a lot of compliments and insults from my customers about my Fieros...as for the insults, I add 10% to their bill..j/k
Dave


PC Oldskool MSG #214, 04-03-2008 03:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


yeah, just German cars....and my Fieros. I get a lot of compliments and insults from my customers about my Fieros...as for the insults, I add 10% to their bill..j/k
Dave


Ha! I would too.

I've got a 98 GLX VR6, in need of a rebuild (busted oil pan, oil starvation, now #1 rod bearing )

I'll hopefully start the rebuild next week. Still trying to gather parts...

I've always been a Fiero fan, since I had a remote controlled Fiero when I was in 1st grade. (Yes remote, not radio.... it had a cord from the controller to the car!) Combining a Fiero with a VR6 is such a great idea. I can't wait to see it with a turbo!

Are you building the turbo kit yourself?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #215, 04-03-2008 04:09 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by PC Oldskool:


Are you building the turbo kit yourself?


YES. All the aftermarket kits are overpriced and not quite what I want. I'd have to lose the trunk to mount the turbo with THEIR kits. I figure that I can either go up or down with the turbo...just not back.

I spent a few hours today with the swap and tested the wiring. The dash lights up and the engine cranks, has spark, pulse and just needs a tank of gas. I still have many hours to go, but not that many until it runs. I still have to mount the gas pedal and make the harness to the junction for the fly by wire. I also eliminated the fusible links and replaced them with the Jetta battery fusebox which is basically fusible links in fuse form for the major components.
Dave


PC Oldskool MSG #216, 04-03-2008 04:57 PM
      For your consideration: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3741894

AP2k (argonplasma2000@gmail.com) MSG #217, 04-03-2008 05:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


YES. All the aftermarket kits are overpriced and not quite what I want. I'd have to lose the trunk to mount the turbo with THEIR kits. I figure that I can either go up or down with the turbo...just not back.

I spent a few hours today with the swap and tested the wiring. The dash lights up and the engine cranks, has spark, pulse and just needs a tank of gas. I still have many hours to go, but not that many until it runs. I still have to mount the gas pedal and make the harness to the junction for the fly by wire. I also eliminated the fusible links and replaced them with the Jetta battery fusebox which is basically fusible links in fuse form for the major components.
Dave


Good to hear you are so close to firing it up!

Is the signal from the pedal just a variable voltage or is it coded?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #218, 04-03-2008 07:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by AP2k:


Good to hear you are so close to firing it up!

Is the signal from the pedal just a variable voltage or is it coded?


it is coded via the VAG software during the basic settings. I'm crossing my fingers hoping that the throttle body is good. If I remember correctly, I believe a new one is around $800. I have two more at the shop, so the odds one of them works is in my favor.
I'm hoping to have the car off the lift by this weekend.
I figure I still have about 20 hours left on this swap. Honestly, it isn't so bad this far, but the next phase will be a fun one.
The shifter didn't go as planned. The VW shifter didn't work, so I am stuck trying to modify the Fiero shifter. First off, the four speed cables were way too short, so I picked up a set of Isuzu cables from Rodney Dickman. Secondly, the select throw is reversed between the Fiero shifter and the VW transmission. So in other words, when I move the shifter left, the Fiero shifter pushes the cable towards the rear of the car. The VW trans needs it pulled. I thought the VW shifter would work (it does fit into the tunnel area), but it just doesn't without major mods that I feel are an unnecessary waste of time. Archie gave me the solution to my problem after I spent hours making different shifters not work. I'll post up more details after I finish putting the shifter together next week.
The reason why the VW shifter would have worked is that in the Jetta, the shifter is behind the trans and it grabs the trans from behind. In the Fiero the shifter is in front of the trans and grabs the trans from the front. No mods to the shifter are needed, just a different transmission bracket. It seemed easy on paper, but didn't work out.
Dave
ps....about the turbo....don't ever buy a used turbo unless you see it in person. I've never seen a good one come out of a private sale over the internet (except the German wrecking yards that have to give a warranty). Just my opinion....I'm sure you can find a good used turbo online, I just don't have that kind of luck.

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 04-03-2008).]

PC Oldskool MSG #219, 04-04-2008 09:11 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
The shifter didn't go as planned. The VW shifter didn't work, so I am stuck trying to modify the Fiero shifter. First off, the four speed cables were way too short, so I picked up a set of Isuzu cables from Rodney Dickman. Secondly, the select throw is reversed between the Fiero shifter and the VW transmission. So in other words, when I move the shifter left, the Fiero shifter pushes the cable towards the rear of the car. The VW trans needs it pulled. I thought the VW shifter would work (it does fit into the tunnel area), but it just doesn't without major mods that I feel are an unnecessary waste of time. Archie gave me the solution to my problem after I spent hours making different shifters not work. I'll post up more details after I finish putting the shifter together next week.
The reason why the VW shifter would have worked is that in the Jetta, the shifter is behind the trans and it grabs the trans from behind. In the Fiero the shifter is in front of the trans and grabs the trans from the front. No mods to the shifter are needed, just a different transmission bracket. It seemed easy on paper, but didn't work out.
Dave
ps....about the turbo....don't ever buy a used turbo unless you see it in person. I've never seen a good one come out of a private sale over the internet (except the German wrecking yards that have to give a warranty). Just my opinion....I'm sure you can find a good used turbo online, I just don't have that kind of luck.



Thanks for the advice on the turbo... yeah I would be weary about buying the turbo itself, but piecing together a used kit is always an option.

About the shifter (I know you said you found a solution, but you might want to check this out anyway...). I found a Mid Engine VR6 GTI build thread on the Vortex, and apparently they used lengthened cables with the VR6 shifter. HERE is a link to the page where they start working on the shifter/cables. Scroll down until you see pictures. I didn't get a time to search further, but I'm sure they gave an explanation. You might want to contact them for some information.

Good luck! I can't wait to see this beast on the road.



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #220, 04-04-2008 09:54 AM
      That's the mod I didn't want to do. They flipped the shifter select and still ran the cables from the back. I want a cleaner look and I want to run the cables from the front. Hopefully, it will work out the way that I want, but we'll cross that bridge next week. That is the only part of the swap that didn't pan out as expected. Oh well, it could have been worse
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #221, 04-13-2008 11:51 AM
      I have been working on the swap, but my schedule has been pretty full to take pics and post them. I wired up the fly by wire pedal and made a mount to bolt it in place of the Fiero pedal. I also made a computer mount for the Jetta ECM. The battery cables have been run and I head the engine crank this far.
The fuel pump issue was kicking my ass for a little bit, but I got that resolved. I really wish I went with a stand alone ECM and called it a day, but I wanted to challenge myself and see if I could get the VW factory computer to work in the Pontiac. Anyway, the Jetta fuel pump relay kicks on to prime the engine when the door is opened via the body control module. The SRS system disables the fuel pump in the event of a crash, too. So, The CAN BUS system is kind of kicking me in the head a little bit because the ECM doesn't function properly without the instrument cluster.
I am very tempted to pull the wiring and run a stand alone as I mentioned, but I'm not giving up yet. I knew that the wiring would give me some issues. I've swapped in a few VR6 engines before, but they all went in VW's, so it was pretty easy.
Also, my gold Fiero is getting kind of whupped for only having 60,000 miles on it. I already have the swap in mind for that one...and it will make this swap look like a walk in the park. Yes, it will be a Euro engine.
I'm not expecting much progress on the VR6 this week. I just received a bunch of new parts for my orange V8 that I want to install before Carlisle and I'm shopping for a new set of heads and Archie's aluminum flywheel for it as well.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 04-13-2008).]

Kuta MSG #222, 04-14-2008 07:05 AM
      PICS!

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #223, 04-14-2008 10:21 AM
      I'll be posting some pics later this week if I can get five minutes. The good news is I heard the VR6 Fiero start up and run this morning. The fly by wire throttle works perfectly. I apparantly missed a wire in the diagram when I was doing the ECM wiring.
I still have a ways to go on this....the cluster, exhaust, shifter etc.
Dave


darkhorizon MSG #224, 04-14-2008 12:54 PM
      This thread is useless without burnout videos

Icelander (whit@dubhlinn.com) MSG #225, 04-23-2008 01:41 AM
      Bump...

Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #226, 04-23-2008 03:32 AM
      On the clutch/brake bleeder thingie...you can make your own, using a pump-type garden sprayer; just replace the nozzle on the sprayer hose with a threaded 3/8" plumbing fitting (the kind that's barbed on one end and threaded on the other) and drill and tap a spare brake and/or clutch filler cap for the fitting. Fill 1/3 to 1/2 full with brake fluid, put the cap on the reservoir, pump up the sprayer unit, open your bleeder fittings one at a time until no more bubbles are seen, and you're in business. Would that I had had someone show me that trick when I was 17, lol...

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #227, 04-23-2008 06:20 AM
      I had to take some time off the VR6 for a few reasons. First, I hosted an event of Fieros and MINI Coopers at my shop on Saturday. My shop had to be cleaned enough for about 30-40 people to be able to hang out there and not get greasy. Second, my V8 Fiero is going out to Carlisle and I wanted it to be perfect for the event. I'm hoping to be able to replace the cylinder heads and swap in an aluminum flywheel before the trip. I also want to dyno it before and after the parts install.
I also have a few customers engine jobs that need to be done to pay the bills.
I will be back on the VR6 swap in full force once the Carlisle trip is over. It won't make it to Carlisle this year, but I am hoping to drive it to the 25th.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #228, 04-29-2008 07:37 PM
      ok, I thought I was going to take a month off the VR6 swap, but I ran short on parts for customer's cars today. So, I wound up making the CAN line and K line harness. I designed it in a way that it would plug into the Fiero's factory harness using the VW connectors. The CAN and K line are the lines that the various computers communicate with each other on. In my particular swap, the harness isn't really used other than communication with the VW laptop, but I wanted to see if it was possible to make this fully OBDII compatible for diagnosis purposes as well as emissions legal. I found this to be possible. It is also possible to be able to run an automatic transmission in this swap and have it fully computer controlled with the VW software. Basically, I want this car to be able to be serviced by any VW tech.

For today, I hooked up my VAG software and was able to see live data, program the throttle adaptations with the fly by wire and read and clear codes. There is a programming issue with the engine control module that i have to work out. I discovered that this module was not from the donor car, so the coding does not match. I'm planning on reprogramming the ECM later this week.
The main reason why I am going through all this trouble rather than run a stand alone ECM is that for the TDI swap in the future, I want it to be able to function like a VW, not a Fiero with a diesel engine. When I add the turboto this swap, I'll most likely be removing a lot of what I am doing and run a stand alone.
The next phase will be making an exhaust system so that I can post up a video. I'll post more pics once the interior wiring is all loomed up. It looks like a complete mess right now.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 04-29-2008).]

Winkie MSG #229, 04-29-2008 08:00 PM
      Are you able to get it to run? Or does it still only run for a second?

Ryan


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #230, 04-29-2008 08:08 PM
      It starts and stalls. I thought it was the fuel pump relay that I had to rewire to work with the Fiero's wiring. That wasn't the issue. Then I figured it was the throttle module not being programmed, but when that was programmed today I could see the ECM was blocked due to being from a different Jetta. I have to read the coding from the cluster and then program the computer and it should stay running at that point...so the tricky part is over...I think.
Dave


quad4powered (quad4powered85@aol.com) MSG #231, 04-29-2008 11:30 PM
      I have just read this post from the begining and am now caught up. What you are doing is an act of engineering genius. Keep up the good work.

Gokart Mozart MSG #232, 04-30-2008 05:21 AM
      Who gets to choose the color of this one?

[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 04-30-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #233, 04-30-2008 12:46 PM
      Joey has already picked out the color for this car, but after her naming my orange Fiero, I may tell the painter to go a whole different route.
Dave


Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #234, 05-01-2008 12:15 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

Joey has already picked out the color for this car, but after her naming my orange Fiero, I may tell the painter to go a whole different route.
Dave

I can see it now...two tone, same design as the "GOF," but done in purple and cream, lol...


Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #235, 05-01-2008 12:44 AM
      How about rainbows?



anonymity MSG #236, 05-01-2008 06:32 AM
      I'm not that kind of girly girl!!!!
Joey


Richjk21 MSG #237, 05-01-2008 07:52 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Saxman:

How about rainbows?



Or Unicorns ... yeah that's it Unicorns ...... it'll give the GOF cart a run for it's money

Rich


gt88norm MSG #238, 05-01-2008 09:16 PM
      How about flocked (sp?), . . . You know, that velvety stuff that was popular for about 3 mo. during 1971 (or was that '72) hard to remember 'cause I was really 'there'!

Norm


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #239, 05-03-2008 01:12 PM
      I posted my immobilizer dilemma on a private European technician forum and I think I have found my solution. The 2000 Jetta uses the instrument cluster as the immobilizer and there is no way to fake it even with the Jetta's cluster. It would need to see the Jetta key in the ignition lock and then send the signal to the cluster to allow the ECM to run the engine. Even by using the factory cluster, I would still need to use the steering column and key, but that isn't in my plans.
I found a company that specializes in VW Immobilizer deletion and simulates the signal inside the ECM to allow the engine to run. I should have used a 1997 VR6 and I could have bypassed the Immobilizer by connecting two wires, but I really like the way the AFP engine runs with the variable intake. I just got done modding a customer's VR6 and I am always impressed how the smallest mods show the biggest results with the VR6. I guess that's how it got the nickname "VW's muscle engine".
I won't be doing much more with this swap this month because I need to have my GOF ready for the Carlisle show. It will be inside this year....yay!
If I do make some progress between now and then I'll post some more pics.
Dave


Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #240, 05-15-2008 04:12 AM
      Bumpage...

How did I go so long without partaking in VR6 goodness...?
Bmwguru, I can't remember the displacement on your swap/build...but I think it's funny as hell that the VR6 displaces 2.8 liters.
If any Fieronistas ask, you can truthfully tell them it's a 2.8...of course the sound of the thing revving to about seven grand *might* give the game away...


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #241, 05-15-2008 06:09 AM
      I took some time off the VR6 to get the V8 ready for Carlisle. I'll be back on the VR6 in full swing next week and this thread will come alive again.
Dave


TRiAD MSG #242, 05-15-2008 06:32 AM
      Cool!

I had a '97 GTI VR6 and loved it! You're going to love this swap once you're done!

Tagged so I can watch along, too.



Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #243, 05-17-2008 04:25 AM
      Bmwguru, what are you going to use for the tach? I know there's some sort of issue with the tach signal not being usable for the early Jettas (mine doesn't work); I wondered if the same thing would apply with the swap you're planning, or do you plan on using some sort of aftermarket unit?

gt88norm MSG #244, 05-17-2008 02:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


I honestly haven't planned out the interior yet. I am leaving my options open in case if I plan on using the VW cluster or VDO gauges. The Fiero gauges won't read properly. The CAN line goes into the VW cluster and the laptop can read the module for the cluster, so I might go that route....I'm really undecided at this point.
Dave


Above quote from 1 page back.


This is "vedy vedy intedesting!"

Norm
quote attrbute : Arte Johnson; 'R&M's Laugh In'.

[This message has been edited by gt88norm (edited 05-17-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #245, 05-17-2008 07:47 PM
      I just checked in and I'll be getting back on the VR6 swap this upcoming week. Right now we are at the Carlisle show where the V8 "Gay Orange Fiero" is being displayed in the "Invitational Display" at the Carlisle show. Monday, I have to put a clutch in my gold GT and then after that it is VR6 swap 100%.
The only thing left of the VR6 swap is the shifter and immobilizer delete.
Dave
ps...I've decided to not use the Jetta cluster and go with VDO gauges for the instruments.

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 05-17-2008).]

Gokart Mozart MSG #246, 05-18-2008 02:41 PM
      Saw this car and thought of yours. Karmann Ghia with a Audi 2.8 v6.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #247, 05-22-2008 12:04 PM
      That looks like a real tight swap...

Anyway, we have progress.......
I concidered running a stand alone, but in order to do a TDI swap, the factory ECM and wiring need to be retained. Also, the VR6 has odd injectors that aftermarket generic injectors don't work as well with. I also wanted to be able to run the car with the factory components and make this swap look like it came from a VW shop (oh wait...that's what I do for a living).
I spent weeks researching how to delete the immobilizer and finally found a solution. GIAC would not do the delete saying that is was illegal to remove the factory immobilizer...????. Anyway, I did find someone who could do some mods at a great price with a two day turnaround (including shipping). I shipped it out Tuesday and got it back today.
I put the ECM in, programmed the fly by wire and started the engine up and let it run. It has open exhaust right now, so it is kind of loud, but still pretty cool.
I'll post some pics and maybe a video later.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #248, 05-22-2008 04:48 PM
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLiStLmSdCY

I still have a lot of work to do. The gas pedal needs to be mounted. The exhaust needs to be made and the shifter has to be made.
Hopefully, we'll be driving it soon!
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 05-22-2008).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #249, 05-22-2008 06:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:



Great video! I embedded it for you.


arte444 (kakagiraffe@gmail.com) MSG #250, 05-22-2008 08:35 PM
      I like the muffler =)



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #251, 05-22-2008 08:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by arte444:

I like the muffler =)



Thanks!
I just cut the stock exhaust off the Jetta at the cat and bolted it up as a joke. It does make a nice sound, though.
Someone sent me a pm asking what I am doing in the video. I am operating the gas pedal with my hands. I have to finish making the bracket for the pedal and wanted to make sure the wiring would be fine while it was still easy to get at.
Dave



Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #252, 05-23-2008 02:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
I just cut the stock exhaust off the Jetta at the cat and bolted it up as a joke.


That's really cool though. Center exhaust ^_^ . Does that mean that the stock exhaust pipe clears easily under the stock trunk?

In that case, with a 90* bend the catalytic converter could be mounted "within the same distance as on the donor car", meaning it could theoretically be California emissions legal.

Could you take a picture from underneath the car to show clearances, when you get a chance? ( with the exhaust pipe installed)
- front of cradle (where the stock Fiero cat would be)
- and back of cradle near trunk)



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #253, 05-24-2008 08:27 PM
      I did cut the trunk, but that is for the turbo (phase II of this swap). I did measure and a center exhaust would be cool, but I'd need a custom rear bumper to make it look right. So, if anyone has ideas for that, let me know. I will be running magnaflow mufflers and no cat.
I started making the gas pedal mount, but the weather is so nice up here that I had to take a break and enjoy the 70 degree sunny days while they are here. This week, I'll be progressing on the interior wiring and shifter mods...with pics.
Dave


FieroWannaBe (patond@alumni.msoe.edu) MSG #254, 05-24-2008 08:42 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I did measure and a center exhaust would be cool, but I'd need a custom rear bumper to make it look right. So, if anyone has ideas for that, let me know.
Dave




bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #255, 05-24-2008 08:46 PM
      looks very cool, but I need a license plate.

FieroWannaBe (patond@alumni.msoe.edu) MSG #256, 05-24-2008 09:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

looks very cool, but I need a license plate.


put it to the side next to the cutout, no biggie.


Formula88 MSG #257, 05-24-2008 11:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLiStLmSdCY

I still have a lot of work to do. The gas pedal needs to be mounted. The exhaust needs to be made and the shifter has to be made.
Hopefully, we'll be driving it soon!
Dave



Sounds mean. I like it.


Jakezilla3 MSG #258, 05-26-2008 10:34 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroWannaBe:


put it to the side next to the cutout, no biggie.



Put some really strong magnets on the back of the bumper and on your plate, then you could just stick it on and pull it off. Might be a PITA if you plan on driving it around town because of theft, but glue some screw heads onto it and people might think it is attached.



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #259, 05-26-2008 03:22 PM
      well, the hardest part about doing a swap that has never been done is the research. I'm sure that my next VW Fiero swap will be much easier and quicker time frame. There are a few things I would change if I started all over again, which I may go back into and revamp once the car is driveable.
A TDI swap is definitely going to be on the drawing board for late 2008 or 2009.
As for the bumper...I'll leave that for the end. I might swap on a fastback rear clip and I really haven't thought about the body mods yet.
Dave


Faster7 (rchinn6@mchsi.com) MSG #260, 05-27-2008 02:40 PM
      Very nice!

 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
I concidered running a stand alone, but in order to do a TDI swap, the factory ECM and wiring need to be retained.


Wiring isn't that hard as you know... but there is also a shop that makes hybrid pumps to run a TDI motor with just a single wire, like how the older VW diesels were. Dug for the shop info with no luck so far, but found this thread:

http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6427

[This message has been edited by Faster7 (edited 05-27-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #261, 05-27-2008 07:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Faster7:

Very nice!


Wiring isn't that hard as you know... but there is also a shop that makes hybrid pumps to run a TDI motor with just a single wire, like how the older VW diesels were. Dug for the shop info with no luck so far, but found this thread:

http://www.vwdiesel.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6427



Wiring and making harnesses is one of my specialities. My main shop talent is hard diagnosis. I've even had new car dealers send me cars they couldn't figure out.
I'm curious about the tdi aftermarket wiring...I know that you need to be able to read the start of injection pump timing and that needs to be adjusted mechanically while watching the readings on the laptop...but if there is a simple way to do it...maybe that is the way to go. I always seem to overcomplicate things and not stop until I am 110% satisfied.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #262, 06-07-2008 12:26 PM
      Just figured I'd update the progress....
I've been having a bad month. I broke one of my knuckles, one of my employees left at the beginning of our busy season and I've been working 14 hour days to just keep up with the workflow. So, needless to say, I'll be taking a few weeks off any side projects, which sucks because the car is so close to completion. At least it runs!!!
Dave


shawnhalolush MSG #263, 06-08-2008 12:12 AM
      That's rough Guru, you should look into some help around the shop so you can focus on the important things (ie the VR6)....lol

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #264, 06-16-2008 03:28 AM
      Sorry to hear about your knuckle. What's the prognosis?

[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 06-16-2008).]

atleastitruns MSG #265, 06-16-2008 03:29 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
So, needless to say, I'll be taking a few weeks off any side projects, which sucks because the car is so close to completion. At least it runs!!!
Dave


no... I'm atleastitruns!

^.^ hehe?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #266, 06-16-2008 06:43 AM
      I should be back on the VR6 this week. I was working from 7:30am-9:30pm almost every night on just customer's cars. The profits were great, but I'd rather have my sanity back. I hired another tech to help out, so things should be back to normal soon. My knuckle is healing and I even went bowling for Father's Day with the wife and kids. I had to bowl with just my thumb in the ball, and I did pretty well like that, so I might start bowling in my new style from now on.
I'm really hoping to have te car finished by the end of July and then start the testing procedure.
Dave
ps....Atleastit runs....hee hee hee!

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 06-16-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #267, 06-24-2008 10:35 PM
      We have more progress...
I finally put my foot down and decided to work on the Fiero swap this evening and let the customer's cars wait until tomorrow. I also hired a fellow Fiero enthusiest to work at my shop, so now I have more manpower on the German imports during the day and my shop transforms into a Fiero shop at night. I counted three Fieros on my lifts after closing tonight.
Anyway, the auto repair industry had one of the worst winters in the past ten years this last year. Fifteen import shops closed their doors in NJ between April and May. The good news is that is seems that our shop is making up for the winter right now. I have more than double the normal amount of business and there is no end in sight, but I am not complaining.
.
.
.
Tonight I made the gas pedal mount for the fly by wire throttle. I had to use the VW as pedal and make it work with the Fiero's mounting surface. It was actually quite simple. I used a piece of 3/16" steel and drilled the holes where they needed to be. Then I welded in 7mm studs to mount the gas pedal to. The plate bolts up where the original pedal bolted up. It feels just like it was put there from the factory.
Here are some pics...




Looking back on this, I really could have made this a lot easier, but I'm certain that I can make all the emissions components work from the VW in the Fiero and meet 2000 Jetta OBDII specs. Everyone asked me thus far as to why I haven't just run a stand alone and be done with it in four hours. I wanted it to be just like a VW. I wanted to see if it could be done this way.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 06-24-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #268, 07-04-2008 08:51 PM
      I snuck down to the shop this morning to play around with the VR6. I left the bay doors closed and the calls forwarded to the voicemail. Amaingly, the phone was ringing and I did see people come by the shop on the camera, but I was elusive and wanted total privacy.
Anyway, I fitted the VW shifter into the Fiero and made some slight mods to have it fit. Then I made access holes into the rear of the shifter housing to allow the cables to exit the rear of the shifter instead of the front. A few test fits and it fit rather well. I then started making the bracket for the transmission end. It came out looking great, but I had to scrap it because the cables interfered with each other when shifting to reverse. So, back to the drawing board.
My wife is planning another one of her crazy road trips this upcoming week, so I'll hopefully have a few nights to spend getting the final stages of this swap done. (I'm already planning the next swap in my third Fiero). Then the car is off to the body shop for fresh paint (my gold one is there now getting the paint done before the swap).
Here are two pics from today. I didn't include pics of the transmission cable bracket because it was not usable.
Dave



Richjk21 MSG #269, 07-04-2008 09:08 PM
      Hey Dave ....Not to Hijack, but I have a road trip coming up this weekend too ... My Daughter and I are leaving Sunday morning at O'dark thrity we're going from Portland Oregon to Buffalo NY.... but I can't keep up with your wifes driving stamina... for us aggressive is doing the trip in 3 - 13 hour driving days. Then I leave the Truck/Camper/Daughter/Dogs all at the in-laws, and fly back out here Wednesday night. Then I get to make the trip again in a week..... in a rental truck trailering the Fiero, and caravaning with my wife in her car, and my son driving our other car... woohoo


Rich

[This message has been edited by Richjk21 (edited 07-04-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #270, 07-04-2008 09:31 PM
      yeah, I love her trips. Not to get off topic, but she is once again taking my Benz, three of our kids and three other kids (cousins), while towing a stock trailer full of stuff to be delivered to Louisiana. I gave the Benz a once over yesterday and it passed 100%. An hour later, I got into the truck to go home and the throttle had failed. it is an electric fly by wire throttle and as I pulled into traffic, I lost all throttle function. Needless to say, I was not happy. I pulled the truck back into the shop and replaced the throttle sensor and air mass meter and reprogrammed the throttle stop. All fixed.
I'm glad this happened now and not on Wednesday.
Dave


turboguy327 (turboguy327@aol.com) MSG #271, 07-05-2008 11:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

As for the bumper...I'll leave that for the end. I might swap on a fastback rear clip and I really haven't thought about the body mods yet.
Dave


Dont mean to highjack the thread or anything but I have a rear fastback clip and decklid for cheap if you are interested. I should have everything but the tail lights, 1/4 glass and trunk seal for a fastback swap. If you are interested let me know. Awsome swap by the way. I would love to have the patience and skill you have.


Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #272, 07-15-2008 01:51 PM
      Guru, check out the VW Vortex forum if you need info on how to get a tach signal...don't recall whether you decided to use the VW cluster or not? But then, I'm probably trying to teach my granny to suck eggs, lol...(the reason I mention it, is my local VW guru, whose talents I respect immensely, was scratching his head for six months over getting my tach to work with my VR6 in my MkII (four cylinder) cluster; I found the solution in the Vortex forum in five minutes of searching; it involves taking signal from two of the connectors on top of the VR6 coilpack through 1K ohm resistors, and then joining the two leads to connect to the tach signal input---it's accurate up to 5,000 rpm, after that the tach sort of goes a little goofy, but at least it works now...we're still trying to figure out what's happening in the upper range)

Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #273, 07-15-2008 03:24 PM
      Dave: Your install looks nice and I admire your talent, perserverence and creative spirit but next time you might want to take an easier approach to your swaps. A 3800SC or an LS4 will bolt up and just about bolt in. Tuning software is readily available.
You've got to get the award for the weirdest engine swap so far. There was a guy on this forum not long ago that was trying a double four engine swap but I don't believe that he suceeded so the award should be all yours. I just can't imagine the R&D that was required to get your project near completion.



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #274, 07-15-2008 03:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Dave: Your install looks nice and I admire your talent, perserverence and creative spirit but next time you might want to take an easier approach to your swaps. A 3800SC or an LS4 will bolt up and just about bolt in. Tuning software is readily available.
You've got to get the award for the weirdest engine swap so far. There was a guy on this forum not long ago that was trying a double four engine swap but I don't believe that he suceeded so the award should be all yours. I just can't imagine the R&D that was required to get your project near completion.



Dennis,
Thanks. I just didn't want to do a belly button swap. I almost went with a turbo 3800, but I really don't know those engines very well. I work on VW VR6 engines everyday and have done just about every possible repair on them. I could take the engine apart in my sleep...the 3800 not so much. I spent about six months researching the swap and had a few snags along the line. My delay now is the fact of so much customer's cars at my shop and not enough hours in the day. I'm also trying to modify my V8 a little bit to take it to the track this month and I have my daily driver Fiero that I am doing extensive work on at the same time.
If all goes well, I hopefully should have the shifter mounted and functional within the next ten days (or nights).
Dave
ps....if you think this swap is abnormal, my gold GT swap will be really out there...but that will be a 2009 swap.




bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #275, 07-16-2008 09:41 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

ps....if you think this swap is abnormal, my gold GT swap will be really out there...but that will be a 2009 swap.




This is for Austrian Import.....This swap is in our R&D section of our shop right now....will it make it into a Fiero??? Maybe.

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 07-16-2008).]

THE BEAST (jgomez@ircc.cc.fl.us) MSG #276, 07-16-2008 11:28 AM
      Its that an 8 cyl engine or am I seeing double today??

JG


Fastback 86 MSG #277, 07-16-2008 12:50 PM
      That's the W8 isn't it?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #278, 07-16-2008 01:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Fastback 86:

That's the W8 isn't it?


yes it is. I have the opportunity to pick up the engine at a reasonable cost, but before I do, I'll be making sure that it will fit in the back of my other Fiero....maybe with a twin turbo setup.
Anyway, I do one swap at a time, so I need to finish up the VR6 swap before I start building the Ultimate 8 cylinder swap.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 07-16-2008).]

Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #279, 07-16-2008 04:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:




what is the double shafts on the lower right..counter balance?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #280, 07-16-2008 06:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Vonov:

Guru, check out the VW Vortex forum if you need info on how to get a tach signal...don't recall whether you decided to use the VW cluster or not? But then, I'm probably trying to teach my granny to suck eggs, lol...(the reason I mention it, is my local VW guru, whose talents I respect immensely, was scratching his head for six months over getting my tach to work with my VR6 in my MkII (four cylinder) cluster; I found the solution in the Vortex forum in five minutes of searching; it involves taking signal from two of the connectors on top of the VR6 coilpack through 1K ohm resistors, and then joining the two leads to connect to the tach signal input---it's accurate up to 5,000 rpm, after that the tach sort of goes a little goofy, but at least it works now...we're still trying to figure out what's happening in the upper range)


Thanks for the info. I'll probably use VDO aftermarket gauges though. I left all the wiring for the factory cluster in the connectors, but the Jetta cluster is too plain to wind up in a Fiero. I'm a member of Vortex, but not that active there. It is really easy to get lost there. If you search VR6 Fiero in that forum, my car is mentioned a few times by their members that have come to my shop and happened to see it.
.
.
As for the picture, that is the balance shafts for the W8. The swap is still being kicked around. I come across a lot of German engines that other shops are looking to get rid of for a good price, so that is just one of the ideas kicking around in my head. We were also kicking around the idea of a Quattro Fiero, but I'm not a huge fan of the Quattros...and that would require a lot of custom fabrication. One of the other swaps we are planning isn't engine related. I have a cool power steering idea that will be unique and may actually be marketable as a kit in a bolt on in a few hours.
I just need 32 hours in a day and I think my body might catch up to my mind.
Dave


FieroWannaBe (patond@alumni.msoe.edu) MSG #281, 07-16-2008 06:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Erik:

what is the double shafts on the lower right..counter balance?


Yes those are balance shafts, becuase w8's arent well balanced with thier cylinder arrangements.


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #282, 07-17-2008 04:25 PM
      Nice W8 swap

Now if the W-12 would fit in a Fiero engine bay?.... :dreaming:


Dave, don't burn yourself out. You're doing a great service to the Fiero, BMW, MINI, etc. community. But you'll be much more fun with your sanity intact.

Remember to take breaks now and then..


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #283, 07-21-2008 10:20 PM
      I was able to spend a few hours with the swap tonight and have made some progress. Here is a video taken after I finished up tonight. It was taken with a cell phone and it was pretty dark outside, but the point hopefully came across.
Dave

http://s109.photobucket.com...rrent=0721082054.flv

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 07-21-2008).]

Brimmy (brimcam@sfcn.org) MSG #284, 07-21-2008 10:31 PM
      When we going to see a little bit of daylight on that sweet ride ??


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #285, 07-21-2008 10:33 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Brimmy:

When we going to see a little bit of daylight on that sweet ride ??


Hopefully I'll have a few minutes to shoot a video tomorrow...I promised my wife that she could be the first one to break something on it.




Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #286, 07-21-2008 10:38 PM
      Bring her on down to Maryland for a swim!!

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #287, 07-22-2008 08:02 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Saxman:

Bring her on down to Maryland for a swim!!


I think I missed the point....maybe it's the lack of sleep.



Saxman (andrew@thecleavers.net) MSG #288, 07-23-2008 08:44 AM
      Drive her down here. The pool feels great! (I wanna see the car!)

Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #289, 07-26-2008 04:43 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I was able to spend a few hours with the swap tonight and have made some progress. Here is a video taken after I finished up tonight. It was taken with a cell phone and it was pretty dark outside, but the point hopefully came across.
Dave

http://s109.photobucket.com...rrent=0721082054.flv



The car does seem pretty lively with that mill...and it sounds like a car that looks like a little sports car ought to sound.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #290, 07-27-2008 10:49 AM
      I'm planning on posting up a daytime video soon, but I have to wait until Joey is aound. She says it is her car and I have no rights spinning the tires.
I took the last few days off to relax and I closed the shop tomorrow to play hookey and go to Six Flags. If the customers can't understand I need a day off here and there, they can kiss my ass.
The car does sound nice....very Ferrarish. The real exhaust will be getting done soon. Right now it is just a cat....soon to be no cat and just a Magnaflow.
Dave


Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #291, 07-27-2008 12:59 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I'm planning on posting up a daytime video soon, but I have to wait until Joey is aound. She says it is her car and I have no rights spinning the tires.
I took the last few days off to relax and I closed the shop tomorrow to play hookey and go to Six Flags. If the customers can't understand I need a day off here and there, they can kiss my ass.
The car does sound nice....very Ferrarish. The real exhaust will be getting done soon. Right now it is just a cat....soon to be no cat and just a Magnaflow.
Dave


Dave: By putting a Volkswagon engine in a Fiero I've got to hand it to ya.; you did a swap that no other Fiero owner has done , As far as I am aware, you have the only VW engine thats in a Fiero but a while back there was a picture I believe of a BMW engine swap that was done in Europe. IMO the choice of a VW engine is quite unusual as to my knowledge there is not much support in the way of tuning software for that mill. As for the time off- take it!!! You only live once you know!



Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #292, 07-27-2008 02:45 PM
      Cool.

Take a few days off!! You deserve them.

Six Flags is an excellent choice for that.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #293, 07-28-2008 06:58 AM
      I'm not too worried about any aftermarket mods. There are plenty of good tuning software out there. I'm running GIAC with Evap, sec air and cat delete. The 02J transmission has the Peloquin LSD and there are more gear ratio options for all the gears including reverse available. There are more camshaft grind options for the VR6 than there are for the SBC....well maybe not that many .
I went with this swap because it was what I know. I started with a L36 and wanted to turbo it and I really couldn't see myself doing a swap that I had no clue about. My SBC uses four Webers...I am familiar with the Webers from my customers classic Porsches and VW's.
The 3800t would have been easier and faster, but if it broke, I'd be at someone else's mercy for help diagnosing it.
.
.
.
Anyway, shop's closed today and Joey, myself and the crew are going to Six Flags.
Dave


HALONINE (joshdobesh@msn.com) MSG #294, 07-28-2008 12:51 PM
      I have a bmw i could fab a swap for the m20 turbo engine that it has. but i just dont think and inline 6 would fit without cutting and lengthing the car its self



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #295, 07-28-2008 05:34 PM
      The M20 probably wouldn't fit without frame stretching. I thought about running a M or S52 using a 325xi oil pan and making a direct drive transfer case, but I don't think it would really be worth the effort. My next swap will probably be the W8 or a TDI. I have quite a few hours left in this swap, though. Just when I think I am coming to a close, I think of more cool sh*t that I can do to it and it keeps going. I have a feeling that this car will be nicer than my orange and black one....which may get the four carbed V8 swapped out for a R32 VR6.
Dave


anonymity MSG #296, 07-29-2008 03:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I'm planning on posting up a daytime video soon, but I have to wait until Joey is aound. She says it is her car and I have no rights spinning the tires.
Dave


i did not say it is my car, YOU said it is my car....all this time you were telling everyone that you were doing this swap for me..... i watched the video, you said you barely brought it out of the shop you lying SOB! You can go ahead and keep the damn car, I'm happy with my Honda that you hate fixing.

Joey



cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #297, 07-29-2008 03:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by anonymity:


i did not say it is my car, YOU said it is my car....all this time you were telling everyone that you were doing this swap for me..... i watched the video, you said you barely brought it out of the shop you lying SOB! You can go ahead and keep the damn car, I'm happy with my Honda that you hate fixing.

Joey


Rhut Rho!


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #298, 07-29-2008 04:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by anonymity:


i did not say it is my car, YOU said it is my car....all this time you were telling everyone that you were doing this swap for me..... i watched the video, you said you barely brought it out of the shop you lying SOB! You can go ahead and keep the damn car, I'm happy with my Honda that you hate fixing.

Joey


Ouch! even the "World's Most Coolest Wife" can have an off day, I guess. Anyway, What I meant to say before was....Joey says it is her car and she should be the one spinning the tires. I was merely testing the proper disengagement and engagement of the clutch. The full test drive will be done by the owner once the preliminary testing has been completed and passed my standards.
Whew, I hope my stuff isn't on the front lawn.
Dave


megafreakindeth MSG #299, 07-31-2008 11:18 PM
      the w8 wasnt exactly the greatest thing made, its a cool idea but annoying to work on. it may work better with standalone though. it is also very wide, i think youd have to move the subframe back. if you really wanted to the 30v v6 or the 40v v8 would be awsome since theyre both 60 degrees and might fit nicely though probably not to a vw transaxle. another thing to think about are the new 3.6 'v6' engines they have, basicly its a vr6 with pistons only 10.5 degrees apart not 15 degrees making 280hp with gas milage in mind, much more with a performance tune. not to mention that it makes an 08 passat dsg run 14.5s so in a fiero that should be insane. the r32 only runs 14.7 and the gti runs 14.9(6spd man), why they decided the passat should be fastest is beyond me.

if anything the tdi swap should be the easiest swap since theres really nothing to it at all. if a vr6 can go in the fiero then the same mounts can be used for the tdi(when using an mk4 tdi engine) the same trans can be used as well so that allows you to use the 6spd vw trans. its also stupid easy(and cheap) to get over 200hp to the wheels(using vw parts) with one and still get 45-50 mpg. im working on one for a guy where we dropped the turbo and fabbed a centrifugal blower to it. no exhast restriction, minimal belt drag, much more hp. ill probably use a similar setup in my fiero so long as i can just buy swap motor mounts.

despite the vr6 being a perfect fit for a fiero i just can overlook the simplicity, durability, and less weight of the AHU engine especially since they can make just as much or more power than the vr6 unless its supercharged. plus if it gets 45 mpg in a 3500 lbs jetta who knows how much itll get in a fiero.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #300, 08-01-2008 09:03 AM
      The W8 is a wide engine, but I would probably install it longitudal and not transverse. They are a real pain in the ass to work on. The first time I replaced an alternator I was ripping my hair out. Then again, an alternator job on a VR6 isn't easy either...except in my Fiero. It looks like a 15 minute job. The Audi V6s are too wide as well. I'm just planning my next swap...nothing set in stone yet. I do like the new VR6 3.6l. It is sexy.
After this swap, I'll probably want to take a year off of any swaps and just enjoy driving my Fieros.
Dave


fourpoint9 (stevenmsimpson@comcast.net) MSG #301, 08-05-2008 11:21 PM
      Are you going to use VW wheels ?



megafreakindeth MSG #302, 08-05-2008 11:43 PM
      if you think that your fab work on the vr6 will allow you to get a 20v or tdi motor in lemme know i wouldnt mind keeping your info on file for a next year project. not to sure where my soon to be wife will get stationed after she graduates(army) but chances are decent we'll stay in virginia. i kinda wanna just piss the vw dorks off at waterfest and bugout and a tdi fiero would be the ultimate bastard child.

on the vr6, with it in a fiero are the crack pipes and serp belts still a joy to work with or is it all around much easier to work on?

o and remember the 3.6 is called a v6 now, sure it looks like a vr6, sounds like one, and has only one cylinder head but hey, who are we to question wolfsberg

[This message has been edited by megafreakindeth (edited 08-05-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #303, 08-06-2008 06:37 AM
      No, the VW rims were sold to help pay for the mods to this drivetrain. They do fit, though. I have the Fiero GT rims on the Jetta right now and it doesn't look that bad.
The 1.8t & 1.9TDI looks like it would be an easier swap, and is definitely on the back of my mind now that I know what needs to be done to get it in the car and functional. The crackpipe (solid cooling pipe under intake for you non-V-Dubbers) is pretty easy to get at now, but I don't have an air pump, power steering pump or a/c compressor. The belt is a two minute job...there is about six inches between the belt and the frame rail. That makes the water pump a 30 minute job. Even the intake manifold is pretty easily removed. When I made the front lower engine mount, I had to remake it three or four times because I couldn't get the starter out without removing the mount. The final design allows the starter to be easily removed. Also, amazingly the alternator is not a mess to remove if needed.
I used all new accessories like alternator, starter, water pump, etc so that I would be good for a while.
Right now the gas tank is out of the car because I needed to do some welding to the shifter mounting bracket and needed to get to it from under the car to weld in new studs. At the rate I am going, I probably won't even be looking at the car again until this weekend at the earliest due to my shop's workload. I can't complain. Last year we were a lot slower than usual and this year we're making up for that.
If anyone is ever in the central NJ area and would like to see the project, feel free to stop by my shop and check it out.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 08-06-2008).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #304, 08-06-2008 12:26 PM
      If you wanted to use A/C (and maybe PS) would it still fit? (I know you don't want to for this swap, but it would be interesting if it were possible.)

Could you post some pics of the swap and shifter mount? (and more pics in general of the whole project. :P) We're in Cali are dying to find out how this awesome project goes.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #305, 08-06-2008 12:37 PM
      The a/c is possible, but a non-vr6 compressor would have to be used. The VR6 compressor spins counter-clockwise. That is why the belt is ribbed on both sides. I'll post some pics as soon as I get it back together and after Joey does her first burn out.
The function of this car was to see how much hp a VR6 can make in a Fiero....so once the initial testing is done, the motor will be pulled and a built up, low compression engine (done with pistons and not a thicker head gasket) will be installed with a twin scroll turbo.
Dave


sYkboy MSG #306, 08-06-2008 11:24 PM
      Schnikiees! That's one serious mutant!

Volkiac
Ponchovagen
Volkiero
Fieronugen
Der fuhrer's Fiero?

No spreken ze Deutsche.

Nice car, Dave. Let us know what kind of 1/4 mile time you get.


anonymity MSG #307, 08-07-2008 12:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

The a/c is possible, but a non-vr6 compressor would have to be used. The VR6 compressor spins counter-clockwise. That is why the belt is ribbed on both sides. I'll post some pics as soon as I get it back together and after Joey does her first burn out.
The function of this car was to see how much hp a VR6 can make in a Fiero....so once the initial testing is done, the motor will be pulled and a built up, low compression engine (done with pistons and not a thicker head gasket) will be installed with a twin scroll turbo.
Dave


what the hell do ya think your doing to the damn car now!!! Why don't ya leave it alone for now, see what it does, then down the road (like years not months) play around with different options, Damn, you ain't finished with it as is, and you already wanna change sh!t!

-your loving wife-
Joey


Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #308, 08-08-2008 12:21 AM
      Holy howlin' hannah...that thing is gonna romp!

Megafreakindeth, I think the TDI, even though it *can* make as much power as the VR6, *may* not be as good a choice, because of the density of the Fiero spaceframe---these cars are HEAVY for their size (my Formula weighed within 300 lbs of the Eldorado the 4.9 came out of) and the VR6 should provide more low end torque to move the car, even before any massaging on the motor is done, although the TDI's grunt down low is impressive, considering its displacement.
And of course, as a matter of taste, I think it's gonna be nice to see a 6-cylinder Fiero whose motor revs another couple of grand above what the GM 2.8 was capable of; anyone who's ever heard a performance-prepped VR6 run, will know what I mean...sweeet!
BUT, there is something to be said for a motor capable of 45-50 mpg while burning a fuel (biodiesel) that smells like french fries, lol...(People forget that Otto Diesel designed his engine to run on peanut oil.)...



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #309, 08-08-2008 06:28 PM
      I finally got the chance to put together another order of parts for this swap today. I got some mandrel bent exhaust pipe, weld in bungs, Magnaflow mufflers, and some goodies for my V8 Fiero and a few upgrades for my gold GT.
So hopefully I'll be able to post a video without the funny looking exhaust that is on the car now...and a much sweeter sound. The only part that I didn't get was the exhaust tips. I have a unique set in mind, but they are over $300 for just the tips (knock offs of the OE tips I want). The OE tips list at the dealership for $424 per side....OUCH!
I might have to agree with my wife and let her enjoy the car before I start making it really fast. I think I really would be happy with a fun to drive, high revving car that will take out most production cars from a stop light. That was the goal of my V8 Fiero...just a fun car to drive that is loud and decently quick.
Looking into the possibilities of this swap, we may have just opened a door for other VW swaps in the future...maybe a 1.8t with a K04 and GIAC, a TDI swap, a W8, or we can start playing with the new 2.0t or the 2.5 5 cylinder. Time to step into tomorrow.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 08-08-2008).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #310, 08-11-2008 05:16 PM
      If I could make a suggestion, do a swap that's on Ward's 10 best engines list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...%27s_10_Best_Engines

I'd also vote for a DI (direct injected), or better yet, a FSI *hint, hint* ^_^ engine.

I think you should wait a few years though and let technology catch up to your talent.


 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
... I think I really would be happy with a fun to drive, high revving car that will take out most production cars from a stop light. That was the goal of my V8 Fiero...just a fun car to drive that is loud and decently quick.
...


What is the stock redline of a Vr-6 anyways? :curious:

 
quote
Originally posted by Vonov:
... I think it's gonna be nice to see a 6-cylinder Fiero whose motor revs another couple of grand above what the GM 2.8 was capable of; anyone who's ever heard a performance-prepped VR6 run, will know what I mean...sweeet!
...


What's the improved redline? How do you do that? (short simple version pls. )

I would love one of the new Audi or Honda type engines with a 8500rpm redline.
Especially with the sound of an Audi R8.



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #311, 08-11-2008 05:50 PM
      The VR6 in my opinion is one of the best designed engines. I originally was thinking of fitting the VR5 which is a 2.3 liter euro spec passat engine, but they really don't make the power. They are more for a commuter with a little pep.
The cool part about the VR6 is it will build power low and with the variable intake manifold, it will just keep pulling up to the redline. You really have to drive one of these VW's to really understand why I went through all this to do what a 3800s/c could do. I think my car will be more of a fun driver...in my opinion.
I can't remember the redline, I'll have to look when I get to the shop tomorrow. Tomorrow evening, I'll hopefully be able to have some more progress. It seems I'll get a few hours in each week. The little brown truck should be dropping off the mandrel bent exhaust pipes and mufflers.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #312, 08-11-2008 05:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

If I could make a suggestion, do a swap that's on Ward's 10 best engines list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...%27s_10_Best_Engines

I'd also vote for a DI (direct injected), or better yet, a FSI *hint, hint* ^_^ engine.


The audi 2.0t is a really nice engine and would give the Fiero a whole new personality.
I don't understand how the Audi 2.7t made a list a few years in a row. That engine is useless and in stock form doesn't impress the elderly.
Dave


87_special MSG #313, 08-11-2008 09:57 PM
      This is one of the most interesting build threads to read. I'm blown away with the amount of engineering and designing you've done. Your skills are unequaled. I wish you were closer so I could see the car in person. Maybe next year when I visit my aunt in (Bogota) NJ, I'll stop by. Good job and Great work. Congrats Man!

BTW, I have VW wheels on my Fiero. They fit great!


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #314, 08-17-2008 09:28 AM
      Thanks for the compliments. I hope I can get my head in my shop through the garage door now.
My tech Shawn came up with a great idea for the exhaust and so we are in the stage of making that right now. I'm not going to say anything, but hopefully soon enough, I'll post some pics up. In my mind, the idea is an amazing one that I haven't seen done before with the exhaust and can be done on the stock engine. I think you all might love it as much as I think I will. I did wind up purchasing the tips I had mentioned and I should have them on Monday.
I couldn't resist and I did start the VR6 up with the Magnaflow true dual exhaust and it does sound deep and mean.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 08-17-2008).]

Sixstrings MSG #315, 08-18-2008 02:51 PM
      I finally got to see this in person and it is impressive as hell. Even got to hear it running..... going to be a beast

darkhorizon MSG #316, 08-18-2008 05:23 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

If I could make a suggestion, do a swap that's on Ward's 10 best engines list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...%27s_10_Best_Engines


Been there done that.



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #317, 08-18-2008 05:34 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


Been there done that.



I think everyone has....
j/k


anonymity MSG #318, 08-18-2008 08:38 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sixstrings:

I finally got to see this in person and it is impressive as hell. Even got to hear it running..... going to be a beast



Kissbutt!
You're just hoping for a ride in the VR6. I thought the ride in Dave's Gay Orange Fiero was enough for ya.
Joey


Sixstrings MSG #319, 08-19-2008 08:49 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by anonymity:
Kissbutt!
You're just hoping for a ride in the VR6. I thought the ride in Dave's Gay Orange Fiero was enough for ya.
Joey



For someone who is scared to ride in the "Gay Orange Fiero" you seem to have a lot to say. You sure you won't be scared of the VR6 as well?

[This message has been edited by Sixstrings (edited 08-20-2008).]

BabyVet (mybabyvet@yahoo.com) MSG #320, 08-19-2008 06:48 PM
      MORE VIDEO!!! Please

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #321, 08-19-2008 09:35 PM
      I just got home from another grueling 14 hour work day. Anyway, I made a decent amount of progress on the VR6 tonight, and I will have pics to post tomorrow. As for a video, I had to drop the gas tank to be able to fit the VW shifter in the car. The shifter has a very nice solid feel...not like the stock VW Jetta nor the Fiero. The best way to describe the way the shifter feels is exactly like a MINI Cooper S. Very solid and firm.
The neat part about this swap is everything I have designed into this swap can be easily reversed to put the stock drivetrain back in...or any other swap using the Fiero shifter, trans etc. I didn't want to screw myself in case I didn't pull it off. It also made me look at the swap in a different way....nothing on this swap was done half assed. I have a notebook full of templates, wiring notes, diagrams, reminders, cooling system information, etc. I now have the formula needed to drop a VW drivetrain into a Fiero...and let me tell you, the getting the shifter installed and working was the hardest part of the whole swap.
More pics tomorrow....video soon.
Dave


shawnhalolush MSG #322, 08-19-2008 10:34 PM
      One of the reasons I brought up a cooper S swap today was because I loved the shifter feel. This is good news for me to hear that the V W shifter feels that way in a fiero.

Shawn


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #323, 08-19-2008 10:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by shawnhalolush:

One of the reasons I brought up a cooper S swap today was because I loved the shifter feel. This is good news for me to hear that the V W shifter feels that way in a fiero.

Shawn


no, you just couldn't believe how fast that MINI actually was.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #324, 08-20-2008 07:56 AM
      Here are the exhaust tips that will be going on the car. I'll give a + to the first person who can identify what car they are originally from. Hint: dealer list was $424 per side...that should be hint enough...lol



The Aura (cikonen@uwinnipeg.ca) MSG #325, 08-20-2008 10:40 AM
      997 Carerra

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #326, 08-20-2008 12:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by The Aura:

997 Carerra


Close enough. A plus for you. They are from a Porsche 996 or 997 GT2.
Dave


87GT_97114 MSG #327, 08-20-2008 12:08 PM
      From the use of the circles, I'd say a late model Audi. Tilt the left one up 15 degrees CCW, the other one CW and see how they look.
Just a SWAG (Scientific Wild A## Guess)



anonymity MSG #328, 08-20-2008 12:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BabyVet:

MORE VIDEO!!! Please


GLADLY!! As soon as somebody gets it off the lift and lets me drive it.

Joey


anonymity MSG #329, 08-20-2008 03:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sixstrings:
For someone who is scared to ride in the "Gay Orange Fiero" you seem to have a lot to say. You sure you won't be scared of the VR6 as well?



Not scared... Just dont wanna be responsible for wrapping it around a tree and leaving Dave to raise the 5 kids solo.

As far as the VR6, I cant wait to drive it..... if someone ever gets it off the damn lift. I cant wait to see how it does. I will probably go easy on it the first few times I drive it, til I get used to it then look out!!

Joey


Sixstrings MSG #330, 08-20-2008 03:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by anonymity:


Not scared... Just dont wanna be responsible for wrapping it around a tree and leaving Dave to raise the 5 kids solo.

As far as the VR6, I cant wait to drive it..... if someone ever gets it off the damn lift. I cant wait to see how it does. I will probably go easy on it the first few times I drive it, til I get used to it then look out!!

Joey


So what you are saying is that you can't drive.... am I reading that right

Will be really interesting seeing you in the VR6.... I will have to stay up in my end of NJ when you are out


cptsnoopy (cptsnoopy@cox.net) MSG #331, 08-20-2008 05:03 PM
      there's a lot of fighting words being thrown around in here!

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #332, 08-20-2008 05:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

there's a lot of fighting words being thrown around in here!


Sixstrings and I go back 20 years. Anonymity is my wife and I can sleep with her. I'm staying out of this one.


Jefrysuko MSG #333, 08-20-2008 05:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

Anonymity is my wife, she lets me sleep with her. I don't want to mess that up.


Fixed that for ya


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #334, 08-20-2008 05:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jefrysuko:


Fixed that for ya


Thanks! LMAO.

 
quote
Originally posted by anonymity:

As far as the VR6, I cant wait to drive it..... if someone ever gets it off the damn lift.

Joey


Hey, gimme a break. It seems every four cars that leave the shop, five more come in. would you rather have a nice running VR6 and live in it or make the money to pay the bills?
Ok, I'll set aside an hour or two tomorrow and get the exhaust on the car.


shawnhalolush MSG #335, 08-20-2008 06:03 PM
      Well as long as tomorrow isn't anything like today, that should be easy to accomplish....cross your fingers

Shawn


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #336, 08-21-2008 02:05 PM
      I spent an hour and was able to complete part 1 of the exhaust (all mandrel bends). Part 2 will be the tail pipes and tips and part 3 is the secret goodie.
Trunk still removed for now...

Here is how the shifter is set up. I have yet to shorten the shifter. I'll measure it up once the console is reinstalled.

Once again, the best part of the swap.....The key chain!

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 08-21-2008).]

Sixstrings MSG #337, 08-21-2008 03:06 PM
      Exhaust looks good man. Can't wait to see it with the surprise......

Now I just need to get a car to work on for myself



FastIndyFiero (harleyhat1@hotmail.com) MSG #338, 08-21-2008 03:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

Here are the exhaust tips that will be going on the car. I'll give a + to the first person who can identify what car they are originally from. Hint: dealer list was $424 per side...that should be hint enough...lol



Porsche Carrera 4S?

If so, TOO easy
I think the Cayennes also had tips similar to that...



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #339, 08-21-2008 04:23 PM
      I posted the answer yesterday, but they are from a Porsche. I was surprised because they are not easily identified unless you see them on a regular basis...or love Porsches.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #340, 08-21-2008 07:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sixstrings:

Exhaust looks good man. Can't wait to see it with the surprise......

Now I just need to get a car to work on for myself


Rumor has it that there is a nice T-top Fiero on ebay right now. Another rumor is that Joey has already spoken with the owner.



gt88norm MSG #341, 08-21-2008 08:15 PM
      Oh perfect, now you get to move all that powertrain over to a different chassis, perfect, just perfect!
I'm being a little playful there, it would be a good opportunity to whet any rough edges that may be left.
Yeah sure like there's any of those, your "passion for a job well done" is evident and it'll be a piece of cake!
Hang on to that lil lass, a saucy women who shares your passions is a rare find.

Norm


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #342, 08-21-2008 09:59 PM
      The T-top wasn't for us...we have a friend who may be looking for a toy.
Swapping my VR6 into another chassis would be a weekend drop in. All the parts are bolted in or removable back to stock form easily. The hardest part of the swap other than the shifter is my F**king OCD. I built so many mounts, shifter mounts, pedal braces etc until I was completely satisfied. I think that if I do another VR6 swap, it will take 1/4 of the time because it is all been figured out.
The only thing I would change in the swap is I might attempt to make my own rear cradle and suspension with tubular arms and coil overs.
Thanks for the compliment. My wife is one of a kind and I wouldn't give that up.
Dave


gt88norm MSG #343, 08-21-2008 10:16 PM
      I believe you keep horses too? You just keep paying the stable bill and everything will be JUST FINE!
A friend of ours just sold her "Nasty Boy", an import she trained, WHOAH! serious coin.
I'll stick to Rhodesian Ridgebacks thank-you!
It was nice getting a ring side commentary from someone who knows many of the international contestants
(Olympic Dressage).

Norm


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #344, 08-21-2008 10:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by gt88norm:

I believe you keep horses too? You just keep paying the stable bill and everything will be JUST FINE!
A friend of ours just sold her "Nasty Boy", an import she trained, WHOAH! serious coin.
I'll stick to Rhodesian Ridgebacks thank-you!
It was nice getting a ring side commentary from someone who knows many of the international contestants
(Olympic Dressage).

Norm


yup, my wife and daughter are the riders in our family. I haven't ridden in a year...mainly due to my lack of time, but I do miss sitting in the saddle (racing cars alongside the road). We are more of a western riding type. They compete in barrell racing and team penning.
Dave


gt88norm MSG #345, 08-21-2008 10:40 PM
      AKC, ASFA Lure Coursing, Straight racing, oval, Obedience Rally, and yeah a Conformation Ch. too. Soon tracking as RRs are a scent hound as well as sight.
Herding too, Lily has more titles and medals than a Russian General. OH well, as soon as she doesn't like it we'll quit subjecting her to stuff.

And she likes to ride in the Fiero, there, back on topic.

Norm

[This message has been edited by gt88norm (edited 08-21-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #346, 08-22-2008 08:48 PM
      It's Joey's and two of our kids birthdays this week, so this weekend is all booked up so I won't have any VR6 time.
I noticed an axle seal leak, so I pulled that out and should have the new seal in on Monday. If all goes well, the exhaust and interior should be done by next week and then Joey can give a nice "test burnout".
Dave


gt88norm MSG #347, 08-23-2008 04:05 AM
      Happy birthdays, enjoy the family time, they grow so fast . . . it'll make your eyes ache . . . when your my age!

Norm


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #348, 08-26-2008 08:36 PM
      tonight I got the interior almost all together, the VW computer mounted in the factory location, all the wiring loomed and the shifter looks pretty good. I had to notch the skeleton around the shifter slightly to clear the front of the shifter. I should be able to post up some pics tomorrow and maybe a debut video of Joey testing out her ride. I still have to install the exhaust and see how it sounds, but all is just about done except the gauges and Mr Mike's seats....and paint...geesh....I've still got a ways to go.
More tomorrow...hopefully
Dave


doublec4 (doublec4@hotmail.com) MSG #349, 08-26-2008 09:15 PM
      more pictures!!! ....please.. haha so how much did you pay for those tips?

gt88norm MSG #350, 08-26-2008 09:19 PM
      I really like the high-end Toureg tips, also the Nissan Morino's tips are kinda nice.

Norm


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #351, 08-27-2008 09:51 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by doublec4:

more pictures!!! ....please.. haha so how much did you pay for those tips?


I found knock offs on fleabay for $190 shipped for the set.


Sixstrings MSG #352, 08-27-2008 10:40 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


Rumor has it that there is a nice T-top Fiero on ebay right now. Another rumor is that Joey has already spoken with the owner.



Yeah, the problem I have is getting things through comity. LOL......

I will be getting something soon though


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #353, 08-27-2008 02:04 PM
      here is a short video taken today of Joey testing out her car. it now officially (am I allowed to use that word?) runs and drives under its own power.
Dave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14-qF27yM-k

here is a quick one of her testing out the Peloquin limited slip differential

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo7XZiXdY6k

ps...if someone knows how to embed youtube videos to post up the pic instead of the link...pm me the how to

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 08-27-2008).]

Sixstrings MSG #354, 08-27-2008 02:34 PM
     



I sent you the info on IM, but here it is

[This message has been edited by Sixstrings (edited 08-27-2008).]

Winkie MSG #355, 08-27-2008 02:52 PM
      It might just be my computer but I can't open the second link.

Ryan


FieroWannaBe (patond@alumni.msoe.edu) MSG #356, 08-27-2008 02:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Winkie:

It might just be my computer but I can't open the second link.

Ryan


me either.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #357, 08-27-2008 03:01 PM
      I moved it over to youtube so it should be ready in a minute.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #358, 08-27-2008 03:04 PM
      I still have to install the post muffler pipes and exhaust tips, but it sounds so deep!

Winkie MSG #359, 08-27-2008 03:44 PM
      Very nice.

Ryan


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #360, 08-27-2008 06:03 PM
      They are just a few short videos, but after some more work, I'll be having Joey start driving it to work everyday and work out some of the bugs....then maybe I'll post up some actual driving the VR6 videos.
We already have our next project on the back burner, but I have to finish this one first, so there is a little motivation pushing me along.(As well as my wife complaining that her Fiero is still apart)
Geesh
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #361, 08-31-2008 12:10 PM
      Ok, here is where I need all of your help...
I'm shopping for side scoops for the car. They have to be functional for the cold air intake. My tastes are pointing me towards the AusFiero stage 2, but as we all know, they are not available. Anyone have any ideas for similiar types of scoops? I'm not a body guy, so I can't make my own.
Dave


Winkie MSG #362, 08-31-2008 12:16 PM
      I don't know if he was able to get them made again but I would try to get the ones from Germany. They are similar to the stage 2s. I think its the fiero warehouse that has some that are pretty nice. Or go with the ones archie sells. Those are the only ones I can think of right now.

Ryan


Winkie MSG #363, 08-31-2008 12:25 PM
      These are the only pics I have of the side scoops.







Ryan


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #364, 08-31-2008 12:30 PM
      I'd like to see how the finned ones look on a Fiero. The second one down is nice, too.

Winkie MSG #365, 08-31-2008 01:30 PM
      there is a "show off" thread in general and I think there may be a car in there with those scoops.

Ryan


falcon_ca (luc_giguere@hotmail.com) MSG #366, 08-31-2008 03:20 PM
      V8 Archie have this one (www.v8archie.com):




others are sold by Doug at www.fierowarehouse.com








bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #367, 08-31-2008 03:33 PM
      Thanks for showing them on the cars. The white coupe is the type I will probably go with.
Dave


xunedeinx (justin.acito.toc@gmail.com) MSG #368, 09-05-2008 06:16 PM
      bump

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #369, 09-05-2008 07:34 PM
      It is so hard to keep up on the progess this summer. Every spare chance I get to work on the car, it is usually a nice day and I go out and enjoy it. I do have a few boxes of parts left to put on the car and then after it is all back together, I want to do a complete post of completed pics of the swap(top to bottom). Maybe a driving video too. I did promise myself that I will have the swap 100% completed within one year of the start, though. The winter months are real easy to spend 10-15 hours a day on the swap because there really is nothing else to do in NJ when it is miserable outside.
Dave


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #370, 09-05-2008 07:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
The hardest part of the swap other than the shifter is my F**king OCD. I built so many mounts, shifter mounts, pedal braces etc until I was completely satisfied.


I know what you mean, I can't tell how many times I've made a part of some sort or another 3 or 4 times when the first one would have worked just fine!!!

If you can't see the future,
your not driving fast enough. Joe


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #371, 09-05-2008 08:31 PM
      yeah, ask anyone who works for me...I'm a complete ass, but the cars leave my shop 110% because 100% is just sloppy.

Dave


buds MSG #372, 09-05-2008 09:09 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I'd like to see how the finned ones look on a Fiero. The second one down is nice, too.


Here are the finned from fiero warehouse



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #373, 09-08-2008 07:05 PM
      I had a few free minutes to assemble the interior to 100%. We officially have Joey's approval of the interior, but the shifter may need some getting used to...and I'll probably shorten it an inch or two. I've been playing around with the adjustments of it and I have no problems finding any gears.



Here is a shot of the OBDII connector mounted in the Fiero's stock location. The VW computer is mounted in a fabricated plastic carrier similiar to the stock Fieros. All diagnosis and programming are done with the VAG-COM or factory VW laptop.


If all goes well, the exhaust should be completed with the Porsche tips by tomorrow. After that is begins the fine tuning and the gauges should be installed by next week.
Dave
ps...Any request of pics or how I did what? I can answer them as best as I can.

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-08-2008).]

Gokart Mozart MSG #374, 09-08-2008 09:09 PM
      Color?

aconesa (a.conesa@verizon.net) MSG #375, 09-08-2008 09:56 PM
      Dave,

WOW, You did say it would be done soon. When can we see a new video of it all put together and running? This time no throttle in the hands, please. :-)

Abe



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #376, 09-08-2008 10:03 PM
      Not sure of the color yet. Joey has the final say in that.
As for videos...Abe see page 9 of this thread. Maybe new videos after state inspection passes it this week (with no cats)
Dave


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #377, 09-09-2008 01:39 PM
      I would love to get pics taken from the bottom of the engine bay, the VeeDub computer and maybe some engine bay pics with all the covers on.

Would maybe a VW shortie shifter conversion work? You've done so much fabricating, maybe a already made aftermarket part would do the trick?

P.s.: I like the OEM location ODBII connector. Makes it look like it's always been there.

-Max


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #378, 09-09-2008 02:08 PM
      got some exhaust finished today. 100% mandrel bent.....nice Porsche exhaust tips and a nice low rumble with a few small flames out the tail pipes....I might have to retune a little bit.


[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-09-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #379, 09-09-2008 02:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

I would love to get pics taken from the bottom of the engine bay, the VeeDub computer and maybe some engine bay pics with all the covers on.

Would maybe a VW shortie shifter conversion work? You've done so much fabricating, maybe a already made aftermarket part would do the trick?

P.s.: I like the OEM location ODBII connector. Makes it look like it's always been there.

-Max


I'll get those pics when I can put it back on one of our regular lifts. I have it on a mid rise lift now because the customer's cars are on the other lifts. Thinking about the shifter.....After all the fabrication I've done, what is a few more hours on the shifter. I still have the CAI and gauges to go, but it is all downhill from here.


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #380, 09-11-2008 05:29 PM
      Maybe include some detail shots as well.

With an almost artistic quality. i.e.: Vr6 Custom axles, where Fiero meets VW, design features you're particularly proud of. Have fun with the camera.
We what you find, we're all curious.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #381, 09-13-2008 02:43 PM
      I'll post up some more pics soon. Some of the pics I'll email you for your private viewing Max, but others I will post up here. I can't let all my secrets out.
I'm working on a driveability issue with the car right now. I traced it back to a defective sensor that was brand new, so I should have that issue resolved in a few days when i get the new part. I am having some serious issues trying to find decent parts for the cold air intake. Any good websites for custom CAI stuff?
Other than that, I found it was easier to wire in a relay and sensor for the fan rather than try to make the VW fan module functional. This makes for a lot of less wiring and easier diagnosis if there is a failure.
Dave


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #382, 09-13-2008 07:19 PM
      I have an alternative idea for a dash/gauge pod:

Audi gauges. Either Audi TT, A6, A4, or others. (R8 gauges would be nice, but I'm guessing they're $$$, and probably incompatible)

I'm hoping they'd bolt in. Much prettier than the VW gauges, and they'd hold you over until the VDO's arrive.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #383, 09-13-2008 08:20 PM
      Actually, I just ordered the VDO set today, so I should have them installed by mid week. I ordered everything needed to complete the car and hopefully start the tuning process.
As of right now, I'm really not feeling the 5.5lb flywheel. It is really light and the rpms seem floaty.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #384, 09-21-2008 11:35 AM
      I installed the CAI and the gauges. The intake was pretty simple once I found the parts. The air filter is a little large, but I'll probably change it out for a slightly smaller one once I install the new quarter panels.
The gauges were not as bad to wire up as I thought they would be. The oil pressure switch was tapped from the oil filter housing. It has two unused ports and all I needed was a 10mm to 1/8" adapter and it was fine. The coolant temp sensor and fan control switch was installed in the pipe that fed the radiator (at the engine). The tach signal I took right from the ECM wiring to the cluster. I was able to fine tune the tach by watching the tach and the rpm reading on the VW laptop. Same for the water temperature.
The speedometer is all that is left to calibrate and then the gauges are done.
The car is still a few months from completion, but it is coming along nicely.
I was having issues with an extended crank and found the starter switch to be defective out of the box, so I replaced it and the engine fires right up.
Dave






85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #385, 09-23-2008 07:27 PM
      I still vote this as one of the coolest swaps sure everyone can swap a 3800sc or a sbc but it takes balls to go all out and install a vr6 motor and all of the hardware. you sir are one of a kind. I vote to see more wacky swaps just for the hell of it.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #386, 09-23-2008 09:34 PM
      Thanks for the compliment.
The next swap has already been decided and it will be a shop project. I'm not going to disclose what it will be, but it has never been done on a Fiero yet and I really have no clue how we are going to do it yet. Shawnhalolush came up with the idea and I said, let's try it. So when this swap is done (probably by mid November), I'm taking a month off and then we'll start on the next one.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #387, 09-25-2008 11:10 AM
      Found an injector problem during the initial testing, so the upper intake and fuel rail had to come out today. No Biggie.


[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-25-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #388, 09-25-2008 11:29 AM
      video time......

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-25-2008).]

topher_time (lost_caffeine@yahoo.com) MSG #389, 09-25-2008 01:47 PM
     


85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #390, 09-25-2008 01:52 PM
      I am glad to see it is runnin good. someone seemed a little uneasy when she took off from that stop sign. good job.


AkursedX (akursedx@aol.com) MSG #391, 09-25-2008 02:08 PM
      Is that popping sound in the video from the engine or is it from something else. It sounds pretty darn good when you get on it. I'm glad to see it out on the road finally. This is definietly one of my favorite swaps.



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #392, 09-25-2008 02:57 PM
      The popping sound is my poor quality camera trying to pick up the exhaust pulses....one of these days I'll get a better one. I was still getting used to driving a Fiero with a LSD. It is definitely different than one with an open rear around turns. If all goes well, Joey should start her driving soon, and then make her list of demands of things for me to change. Still on target for mid November to be 100% completed.
Dave


Sixstrings MSG #393, 09-26-2008 10:00 AM
      That engine has a nice sound to it....... it is looking damn good

anonymity MSG #394, 09-26-2008 11:53 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 85duke:

I am glad to see it is runnin good. someone seemed a little uneasy when she took off from that stop sign. good job.


It wasn't me driving, that was Dave. But don't worry, I will be taking it easy for a while to get used to the way it handles. I do usually drive fast, but I don't do any more than I can handle. I may be crazy.... but I got 5 kids to raise, so I ain't gonna be wreckless.



Joey

P.S. Yes, it does sound great! I can't wait to drive it! Dave did a great job on the swap... but I know it won't be completely done until all the bugs are worked out. (he is kinda anal like that)


anonymity MSG #395, 09-26-2008 01:13 PM
      here is a few pics of me putting the sealant on the new trunk floor. Dave welded it in and I applied the water sealer.
Joey



85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #396, 09-26-2008 01:15 PM
      I am sorry joey i meant she as in the car. I just like the watch it watch it you can hear when it lost a little traction.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #397, 09-26-2008 02:43 PM
      The engine does have such a sexy European sound to it. The powerband is amazing with the variable intake manifold. There is plenty of torque at the bottom end and it just keeps on giving up to 7,000 rpms. This would be the perfect swap for a rebody. In naturally aspirated form, it is very impressive. In the video I had the car up to about 85mph before I had to slow down to 40mph for the car in front of me.
Everything seems to be going ok with the testing. It runs at 180 degrees at all times and it is rare the fan comes on to cool it. There are a few small quirks I will be addressing within the next week, but only a few hours of time.
The hardest part of this swap was trying to figure out how the hell to do it. If I do another one of these, I could probably have it done in a 1/4 of the time. Just trying to figure out how to make the shifter work properly was weeks of trying and failing. I have it set up perfectly now and can hit every gear without guessing.
Now it is just up to the toughest critic....Joey. I'm sure she will make a list of what she wants changed around or redone.
Dave


85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #398, 09-26-2008 04:14 PM
      Dave

Really, impressive work. You have created a one off swap and did so in an honest fashion. You used your own knowledge and time. The car sounds great and judging by the orange car in the background will look fantastic as well. That motor looks as though it was factory installed. amazing attention to detail. I hope to see your cars and shop in person sometime.


- Ben Tate -


aconesa (a.conesa@verizon.net) MSG #399, 09-26-2008 04:38 PM
      Dave,

WOW, great work. I cannot wait to see it.

Joey,

Can I have a ride?

A


3.6lvvt6spdgt MSG #400, 09-27-2008 07:05 AM
      AWSOME JUST AWSOME...
NOW TURBO IT


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #401, 09-27-2008 12:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:

AWSOME JUST AWSOME...
NOW TURBO IT


all in due time....
I have to get some more traction on the rear wheels first. Even with the LSD, it spins the wheels anytime the pedal is pressed to the floor. Probably have to start with bigger tires. Once Joey is 100% confident with the car, I'l add some boost to it. In the meantime, I have three other projects going on at the same time in the near future, so I'll be taking a well deserved break come November.
Dave
edit to add the video from page 10...

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-27-2008).]

anonymity MSG #402, 09-28-2008 08:09 PM
      OMG! OMG!!

I love my car!!

I got to drive it home from work on Friday..... AWESOME!!!

Then Dave and I went to Trenton area to go hang out with some good friends/fiero owners. The trip was only about 26 miles one way, but OMG, it was great to actually be able to drive the VR-6 Fiero!!

Dave followed me in our gold fiero, just in case we had a problem..... But it ran/drove great.

When the evening ended, we were supposed to stop and get gas before coming home.. but I forgot in my exciement of being able to drive it. So, when we pulled into the driveway and shut off the fieros, he reminded me. We then proceeded to argue over who gets to drive it to the gas station......

....needless to say I won...

Definitely a feat of engineering.....

No more swaps for at least 2 years!!

Joey (owner of the first completed VR-6 swap!!!)



gt88norm MSG #403, 09-28-2008 08:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by anonymity:
OMG! OMG!!
I love my car!!
I got to drive it home from work on Friday..... AWESOME!!!
Definitely a feat of engineering.....

No more swaps for at least 2 years!!

Joey (owner of the first completed VR-6 swap!!!)


Two years huh?!?! . . . Yeah, right!!!

Both of you are very fortunate, have fun, . . . Stay safe!

Norm


DeLorean00 (twincam18@aol.com) MSG #404, 09-28-2008 08:55 PM
      My god your are amazing!! This is a great build, my hat is off to you my friend!!!

FieroBobo (rryans@kean.edu) MSG #405, 09-28-2008 11:26 PM
      Dave,
Congratulations on completing the build. It has been great fun following along with the progress and problems of the build.

Joey,
I'm glad you are so happy with your new car.
One question though, paint? Are you going to get it painted and if so what color(s) are you thinking about?

Good luck with the car.

~Bob



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #406, 09-29-2008 06:51 AM
      I want to something wild like my orange and black V8, but the final decision is Joey's. It will definitely be getting paint, bigger brakes and rims in the near future.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #407, 09-29-2008 01:22 PM
      .

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-29-2008).]

anonymity MSG #408, 09-29-2008 02:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroBobo:

Dave,
Congratulations on completing the build. It has been great fun following along with the progress and problems of the build.

Joey,
I'm glad you are so happy with your new car.
One question though, paint? Are you going to get it painted and if so what color(s) are you thinking about?

Good luck with the car.

~Bob



It will be getting painted, and if Dave has his way soon, but I don't want anything too flashy.... I'm a cop magnet in any car... now put me in a loud car, thats just asking for it. Put me in a loud car with a flashy paint job... and you might as well just take my license now. LOL

I want the car to have a paint job that will compliment the build.... I would like to stick with silver, but we'll see what happens.

It definitely needs the bigger brakes, because it can move....

As far as rims... I'm not sure what I want yet.

Joey

ps I really really really really love my car!!!


ALLTRBO MSG #409, 09-29-2008 03:46 PM
     

I'm glad you got it going well, awesome job!



e30tech MSG #410, 09-29-2008 03:52 PM
      My friend is a VW NUT and would love your swap good job man!!!!

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #411, 09-29-2008 06:15 PM
      I saw that they were talking about my swap on VW Vortex. Maybe they'll let me into the VW/Audi show and go this year at Englishtown??? The paint won't be ready, but I'd like to get the car to the track.
Here is the list of drivetrain mods (off the top of my head)...

Port and polish cylinder head slight compression increase (head was shaved)
port exhaust manifolds from 1 7/8" to 2"
Cold Air Intake
A/C and power steering delete
Fidanza 5.5lb flywheel
Gruvenparts 500g crankshaft damper
GIAC custom tuned software as per my specs
Catless mandrel bent exhaust with free flowing mufflers
Peloquin torsional limited slip differential
600hp custom axles

Next step will probably be a bigger brake kit, rims and tires and possibly (if Joey approves) a better set of camshafts (which can be changed in the car in about three to four hours)
The flywheel and lightened damper I thought would be a driveability issue, but it feels perfect. The quickly revving engine is definitely fun.
This car could be 50 state legal with the install of the secondary air, EVAP and Cat...and if need be I could add them in in a few hours. As of right now, I wanted it set up this way. For you tree huggers....I stuck the tail pipe with my emissions analyzer and also my stock 87 GT and the VR6 Fiero was a lot cleaner....even with the mods.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-29-2008).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #412, 10-01-2008 02:51 AM
      http://blog.cardomain.com/b...twin-engine-lup.html

Don't remember if I sent you this already, but this guy is also a fan of some cool VR-6 engine swaps.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #413, 10-06-2008 11:22 AM
      Well, It looks like the VR6 swap is done. The next step is the body work and paint, rims and bigger brakes. Joey and I took the VR6 to the GSF Road Rally and logged in over 200 abusive miles for the day on the VR6. She has been using it for her daily driver since last week and as of right now, we only had one issue...the clip that holds the shifter cable came loose (a 5 minute fix). Other than that, the hasn't missed a beat and is very fun to drive.
I was driving it home the other day and had a Audi 1.8 turbo start revving his engine at the light next to me. The VR6 Fiero left him from the light and he never quite caught back up. I'd have to compare the power to that of my V8 Fiero....only not as torquey.
Dave


AkursedX (akursedx@aol.com) MSG #414, 10-06-2008 01:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I saw that they were talking about my swap on VW Vortex. Maybe they'll let me into the VW/Audi show and go this year at Englishtown???


I mentioned your build over at michiganvw.org (Michigan Volkswagen Enthusiasts) and it got a really good reception. My one friend is pushing me to get another Fiero and start one of these swaps, lol. And if you want to make a trip to metro Detroit in June, I will make sure you get into the Motorstadt show next year.



fierohobby MSG #415, 10-06-2008 06:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

Well, It looks like the VR6 swap is done.





You are the man. Congrats on a great build!

-fh


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #416, 10-06-2008 06:59 PM
      Thanks for the good words.
Joey hasn't stopped with this car yet. We have already started talking to the various hands that will be painting this beauty...and unfortunately as of today, the estimate looks to be double that of my orange and black V8....but we'll see what I can do about that. I'm gifted in making great deals.
Not to give anything away, but the decision was to make her car silver....as for where the expense will be...wait until it is done and you will see. It will be much like my V8...."very unique for a very unique swap" quoted by my wife.
Dave


topher_time (lost_caffeine@yahoo.com) MSG #417, 10-06-2008 08:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

Not to give anything away, but the decision was to make her car silver....as for where the expense will be...wait until it is done and you will see. It will be much like my V8...."very unique for a very unique swap" quoted by my wife.
Dave


Since she named yours the Gay Orange Fiero... what will you call her car? Just curious BTW, can't wait to see the paint job!


Sixstrings MSG #418, 10-13-2008 12:46 PM
      Got to experience this car first hand and all I can say is "HOLY CRAP".

Car sounded great and several people were commenting on it. It was fast as hell. Very impressive!

Nice job man.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #419, 10-13-2008 02:30 PM
      Yeah, Sixstrings is the first person to drive the VR6 other than Joey and myself. As of today, the car has been driven (hard) everyday. I drove it to work today and I do enjoy driving it more than my V8 Fiero. The car just keeps wanting to pull.

As for the Motorstadt show...Joey and I are still up in the air about whether we are going to any shows this year. The car will be going in for paint soon, so we'll see how that turns out. If we do decide to go, I'll shoot you a pm.
Dave


Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #420, 10-13-2008 03:08 PM
      Dave: Congratulations on one of the most unorthodox and unusual Fiero swaps that we've seen. I believe that European engines have been put into Fieros before (in Europe) but not the VR6 Volkswagon engine. The video seems to indicate that the engine has balls and I believe that you will hold the distinction of being the only Fiero owner with a VR6 for a long while. The only thing that I noticed that was odd was that the car has no A/C? Is this correct? You know woman can get really crabby on a 100*F day without a working A/C in their car. Certainly a man of your talent can get the system working in no time. Might even work with the VR6 compressor and bracket.
Let's make it a point to get the Englishtown track in 2009. I am curious as to how my GM 3800SC will stack up against a VR6. Enjoy it as you've got allot of hours in this swap.



Sixstrings MSG #421, 10-13-2008 03:25 PM
      It was a blast to drive. I was amazed at how fast it was. This has to be one of the coolest swaps ever and has me thinking I need to buy a fiero soon.

Was absolutely amazing.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #422, 10-13-2008 05:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sixstrings:

It was a blast to drive. I was amazed at how fast it was. This has to be one of the coolest swaps ever and has me thinking I need to buy a fiero soon.

Was absolutely amazing.


Looks like we hooked another one.

As for the A/C issue. I can't imaging it being too hard to install. I'd just use a compressor out of another VW with a six rib belt....I converted the VR6 seven ribs to all six rib pulleys. I could either have the VR6 computer control the compressor clutch or just have the Fiero A/C relay work it. I can make a custom line from the back of the compressor to the Fiero junction.
We have A/C in our gold GT and all of our other cars...and I don't remember turning the A/C on in the cars at all this past summer. If it was warm enough, the sunroof glass was put in the front trunk and the wind was in my hair.
But A/C would not be an issue to install on the car
Dave


kevin (kevinsullivan@frontier.com) MSG #423, 10-13-2008 06:28 PM
      Dave,
Outstanding inginuity. Your craftmanship is without compromise. Can we see the work you did on the inside? I think we would also like to get the new torque and h.p. figures, if you got them. I also believe you have the opportuniuty to make some good cash if you can offer this swap in a kit, similar to what Archie did in his V8 swap business. Think about it, hundreds and hundreds V6 VW Fiero's causing the cops, all over America, headaches.

Cordially,
Kevin

[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 10-13-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #424, 10-13-2008 07:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by kevin:

Dave,
Outstanding inginuity. Your craftmanship is without compromise. Can we see the work you did on the inside? I think we would also like to get the new torque and h.p. figures, if you got them. I also believe you have the opportuniuty to make some good cash if you can offer this swap in a kit, similar to what Archie did in his V8 swap business. Think about it, hundreds and hundreds V6 VW Fiero's causing the cops, all over America, headaches.

Cordially,
Kevin




Kevin,
I'll be taking it over to a dyno (for my own curiousity) with a friends exact same stock Jetta. I'd like to promote what we can do for our VR6 customers for a little bit of work. I am very curious as to what it is making at the wheels.
As for a kit, I would rather not offer this as a kit due to the wiring and shifter nightmare. Now that is all figured out, maybe I'll do another at my shop after I get back on track here. I'd also be afraid of too much criticism. Archie pioneered the V8 swap and takes more abuse than I could handle from the younger crowd that was breast fed with a turbo. I'm lucky I am at that age where I still understand carburetors, but I'd be more inclined to use fuel injection. I used Webers in my V8 swap because I felt nostalgic building it and felt that overkill was the best way to go.
With this swap, I went with what I know. I am very good at tough diagnostics, electrical systems and German engines in general. I understand CIS fuel injection and could probably teach a course on it.
back on track....there were a lot of variables that I had to decide upon when designing the swap. What was good for me may be a no no for someone else. If I were to do a swap for someone else, i would have to sit down with that person and custom make the swap tailored to them. I went with solid mounts...and I like them, but someone else may want poly or rubber. I'd like to find out what they want the car to feel like. maybe a Jetta 1.8 turbo would suit them better. If they want a 50 state legal car, I would have to make sure that everything meets the criteria.
I don't think a kit would be right. I'd rather build it to suit the person.
Dave
ps...when you say "see the work on the inside", what part of inside do you mean?


kevin (kevinsullivan@frontier.com) MSG #425, 10-13-2008 07:41 PM
      In the context of the word 'inside", I mean the inside of the car. Any modifications there? Seats, gear shift, radio, dash, etc..

Thanks,
Kevin


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #426, 10-13-2008 07:49 PM
      that is a work in progress. Right now, the only parts out of place are the VW shifter and VDO gauges. We will be ordering a set of Mr Mikes covers soon, but paint will be first. If all goes well, it will be a one of a kind paint job.
I'll shoot some interior pics later this week.
Dave


85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #427, 10-13-2008 08:05 PM
      Dave I think you should use V W wheels for this if possible I know some have the right pattern. They would just add a little more IMHO.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #428, 10-13-2008 08:39 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 85duke:

Dave I think you should use V W wheels for this if possible I know some have the right pattern. They would just add a little more IMHO.


I sold the GLX rims, but bigger rims are soon on the add on list. We had our first kill on the way home this evening. We may need to add on a turbo after all. A Porsche 996 was four car lengths behind when I hit fourth gear. It was pretty obvious that he wanted to race from the start, but didn't seem to want to at the next light.
Dave



85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #429, 10-13-2008 08:42 PM
      Awesome I knew this car would be fast based on the V W's I have been able to drive. I would like to have an r32 engine in mine. Do you need a car to practice on?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #430, 10-13-2008 08:51 PM
      If I do a R32 swap, the first will definitely be swapped into my orange and black V8 car. Your's can be second
Dave


Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #431, 10-14-2008 02:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:



As for the A/C issue. I can't imaging it being too hard to install. I'd just use a compressor out of another VW with a six rib belt....I converted the VR6 seven ribs to all six rib pulleys. I could either have the VR6 computer control the compressor clutch or just have the Fiero A/C relay work it. I can make a custom line from the back of the compressor to the Fiero junction.
We have A/C in our gold GT and all of our other cars...and I don't remember turning the A/C on in the cars at all this past summer. If it was warm enough, the sunroof glass was put in the front trunk and the wind was in my hair.
But A/C would not be an issue to install on the car
Dave


Dave: I'm certain that you could get the A/C up and running by just making up a set of custom lines. The only thing that I'm not sure of is whether or not the VW compressor is variable or fixed displacement. As you know variable displacement compressors like to be controlled by the PCM while the Fiero that used an older design fixed displacement compressor ran off a cycling switch that turned on a relay that energized the A/C clutch. In the worst case I guess that you can Tig weld a switch port on the high side line for the refrigerent pressure sensor, wire it in to the PCM and also connect the A/C request signal. If you don't believe in A/C perhaps this is a trivial discussion, but on those long trips in 100* F days
it seems to make the ride more comfortable.



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #432, 10-15-2008 09:54 AM
      A lot of the VW's don't use a variable displacement compressor. Finding a clockwise spinning compressor with a six rib belt shouldn't be an issue. I can even use a GM compressor.
The screwed up thing is I grabbed the keys to the VR6 this morning and Joey told me that it is her car and I had to drive my gold GT to work this morning. Geesh!
Time to start thinking of a swap for my gold GT.
Also, should I start a new thread for the crazy paint job on this car or keep this thread alive?
Dave


reapermedic (emilehamm@yahoo.com) MSG #433, 10-15-2008 10:29 AM
      Keep it here. It will more of a "rest of the story" thing that way. Plus, it will be easier to keep track of the changes you make along the way.

85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #434, 10-15-2008 03:37 PM
      Once upon a time a guy named dave swapped an engine from an R32 into a gold fiero gt.

Sounds catchy doesn't it. Black notchie has a nice ring to it as well.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #435, 10-16-2008 11:59 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 85duke:

Once upon a time a guy named dave swapped an engine from an R32 into a gold fiero gt.

Sounds catchy doesn't it. Black notchie has a nice ring to it as well.


That does have a nice ring to it, but after Joey and I talked about it last night, it looks like I'll be pulling out the V8 from my orange and black car and swapping in a VR6 R32 engine...but probably not for at least a year or two.
My gold GT I want to keep close to stock/slightly modded. After seeing the way the Fiero has come in the past fifteen years...a 3800s/c seems like a stock motor to me. It is almost expected to see it in there. Also after seeing Purple Reigns videos, I kinda want one.
But, I promised Joey that I would take some time off swaps for a little bit...
Dave


Winkie MSG #436, 10-16-2008 04:19 PM
      At the rate you work you could knock out a 3800 swap in about 2 days.

Ryan


85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #437, 10-16-2008 07:22 PM
      Dave I am just glad you are eventually gonna put an R32 into any fiero. I can smell the smoke now. That offer to use my car for practice still stands. I have to stop by your shop when i am out east again.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #438, 10-16-2008 07:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 85duke:

Dave I am just glad you are eventually gonna put an R32 into any fiero. I can smell the smoke now. That offer to use my car for practice still stands. I have to stop by your shop when i am out east again.


Let me know you are coming and I'll have the V8 and the VR6 there to give you some rides. The R32 should be a very similiar setup to the AFP VR6 I used in this swap. The only difference would be to use a Jetta six speed manual transmission instead of the AWD R32 trans....oh goody...more custom shifter work. I don't know how many times I wanted to take my life in the bathroom over that f*****g shifter.

 
quote
Originally posted by Winkie:

At the rate you work you could knock out a 3800 swap in about 2 days.

Ryan


Ryan,
With enough planning and pre-prep work, I'm sure that Shawn and I could have the 2.8 out and 3800s/c installed in one day. There is enough support/products you can buy for that swap out there that it will be just like dropping a motor in and out.
Dave
ps...the little brown truck dropped off some body mods/parts, so it looks like the paint job will be started soon. I already have the name picked out for this car, but it will give too much away about the paint job if I reveal it.

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 10-16-2008).]

Gokart Mozart MSG #439, 10-16-2008 09:46 PM
      http://www.meguiars.com.au/...ilver_bullet_800.jpg

http://www.legacystation.com/MTH07/30-1433-D.jpg

http://www.marvel.com/unive...px-Silver_surfer.jpg


Fieroseverywhere (caalon777@hotmail.com) MSG #440, 10-17-2008 07:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:

http://www.meguiars.com.au/...ilver_bullet_800.jpg

[/URL]


Hehe. I think there is a car somewhere under that engine.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #441, 10-17-2008 08:28 PM
      Joey and I spoke with the body shop that painted my "Gay Orange Fiero" and they have agreed to take on our latest unique paint job. We are planing on dropping it off at the body shop come winter time and should have it back in our hands when they are done. As I promised, I will not be prepping the car whatsoever. Just a drop off and pick up...but the inspiration will be all mine and Joey's. As of now there are only about eight people that know the plan for the paint job including the body shop.
The only issue is that we want a really obscure paint job, but we don't really want show quality because this car will be a driver. I spent a small fortune on my orange and black car and it looks like this one will be a greater ordeal to paint. If I only took a body shop class when I was younger.
Dave


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #442, 10-18-2008 02:21 AM
      Something you could always pick up. All it takes is practice.

Maybe you could do the prep work, and have someone else shoot it.
Although from what I've read so far, prep work can be a bit of a nightmare.

Congrats on the milestone so far!!


I'd say do the 3.2 VR-6.
Or do DI (direct injection)

Just wait a while until the engine fairy drops one of these in your lap. Maybe even an engine with a stock turbo and oooo

Either way, can't wait to see more pics..


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #443, 10-18-2008 11:31 AM
      I attempted to prep my orange and black Fiero and it didn't work out so well. I will just let the body shop do what they have to do to make Joey's and my vision a reality.
As for the 3.2 VR6 swap....I am already planning to remove the four carbed V8 and drop in a 24v 3.2 VR6 into the orange and black car. Probably within a year or two. After driving my stock gold car, my orange V8 and Joey's VR6 Fiero...I think her VR6 is the most fun. It really could use a little boost, but in N/A form it is still a riot to drive.....when she actually lets me drive it. We have over 1000 abusive miles on it as of today and it hasn't had any major issues. I have adjusted a few things here and there, but the swap seems pretty flawless so far. I'll be putting up some more pics and videos soon. I am so glad I purchased the LSD. Once you get used to it, it is a major difference in control over the car...it launches harder, keeps going straight when the wheels are spinning and seems to handle the turns better. (and it has a lifetime warranty)
Dave


Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #444, 10-19-2008 02:46 PM
      Yeeeehaaaa!! NICE work!! In your next video, couldja wind it up a little tighter, so people can hear how good a VR6 REALLY sounds? (I realize the thing will do about 80-plus in second if you wind it up, and the residential neighborhood you were in sort of precluded that---and that the sound on the recording can't do it justice, but hey, a VR6 in full song is a beautiful thing to hear...)

I definitely agree on the European snarl these engines make; even with a quiet exhaust like mine, with the CAI, the intake noise is loud enough to hear the car approaching (rapidly) three blocks away if the driver has their foot in it. I did a dyno pull on mine recently, and bone stock, it pulled 165 at the wheels, which translates to just a little shy of 190 hp at the crank, which is within spitting distance of the 4.9 I had in my Formula. The difference is, as you mentioned, it doesn't run out of breath at five grand like the 4.9 OR the 2.8...and there's quite a bit of aftermarket available. With a hair dryer on it, 300 hp is easily achievable, and the narrow configuration of the engine leaves tons of room for one.

So, Joey, how do you like it (now that you've taken the keys back from Dave, hehe)?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #445, 10-21-2008 04:32 PM
      I'll post up a new video soon with the tach in the picture. It is pretty cool to watch it spin up to almost 8,000 rpms...and the sound is just plain sexy.
Here are a few pics with the latest updates on this saga.
First off, I replaced the fuel pump because the Warlbro was just too loud and annoying. It sounded like a jet plane waiting to take off. I swapped in a stock Fiero V6 pump and fuel trims are still in spec with no power difference. I saved the Warlbro in case if we decide to boost this car. The original plans were to have a turbo added, but Joey is still getting used to the car.
We added the Fiero Warehouse side scoops...and shortened the air filter to clear better...



Also, remember the cooling system filter I added to see what we would catch. Here is a pic of the coolant filter after 1000 miles of driving....kinda makes you think.

That's all for now....Joey and I are still trying to determine when the body shop will be taking the car away for five or six months to do the paint. She doesn't want to be without the car.
Dave


85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #446, 10-21-2008 04:43 PM
      Lookin good dave keep us posted. Btw When i finish at uti can i work for you?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #447, 10-22-2008 07:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 85duke:

Lookin good dave keep us posted. Btw When i finish at uti can i work for you?


I'm really hard to work for because I expect no less than 110% from myself and employees. We all get along and bust on each other all day (hell, Scrubby threw a firecracker at me while I was cutting something with the torch near the gas tank of a BMW. Then again, I put a "honk if you want a BJ" sticker on the back of his MINI), but the minute that work stops getting done, I start getting mad.
So if you are up for the challenge, come see me when you get through school and don't forget to bring the chapstick and kneepads to the interview.
Dave


shawnhalolush MSG #448, 10-22-2008 08:36 PM
      " don't forget to bring the chapstick and kneepads to the interview. "

I did and it worked out well for me, lol.
Shawn


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #449, 10-23-2008 12:21 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
That's all for now....Joey and I are still trying to determine when the body shop will be taking the car away for five or six months to do the paint. She doesn't want to be without the car.
Dave


I hope you're being cynical. Paintjobs shouldn't take more than 2 months. Even the really good ones. The car can always cure when it's at home with you.

Love the scoops btw.


85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #450, 10-23-2008 01:06 AM
      Dave that was just me tryin to get close to that VR6 powered beast, but on a more serious note I start Nov. 17 and will be done in 75 weeks. I am taking the auto/diesel course.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #451, 10-23-2008 06:50 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:


I hope you're being cynical. Paintjobs shouldn't take more than 2 months. Even the really good ones. The car can always cure when it's at home with you.

Love the scoops btw.


My orange car took five months to the date to get done. They did a lot of fiberglassing and repairing the prep work I started. We are planning on dropping it off in late Nov.

 
quote
Originally posted by 85duke:

Dave that was just me tryin to get close to that VR6 powered beast, but on a more serious note I start Nov. 17 and will be done in 75 weeks. I am taking the auto/diesel course.


Good luck to you. Working on cars is getting more complicated every year. They are more computer than machine nowadays. The good part about this is that the "Shadetree Mechanics" are starting to go away...which in turn increases our value.
Don't worry about seeing the VR6....if I know my wife, she'll be taking her 2009 road trips in it all over the country.
Dave


AusFiero (jim@jadeweb.com.au) MSG #452, 10-23-2008 08:41 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

Ok, here is where I need all of your help...
I'm shopping for side scoops for the car. They have to be functional for the cold air intake. My tastes are pointing me towards the AusFiero stage 2, but as we all know, they are not available. Anyone have any ideas for similiar types of scoops? I'm not a body guy, so I can't make my own.
Dave


If you are still looking they will be available again very very soon.


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #453, 10-23-2008 12:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by AusFiero:


If you are still looking they will be available again very very soon.


That's really good news.


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #454, 10-23-2008 12:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by AusFiero:


If you are still looking they will be available again very very soon.


If you're redesigning those scoops as well. Have you considered Porsche Cayman inspired scoops as well?


kennn (kbrooksarchitect@cox.net) MSG #455, 10-23-2008 12:49 PM
      That is excellent news, Aus. Your design is the prettiest scoop/mod i've seen for the Fiero.

Ken


AusFiero (jim@jadeweb.com.au) MSG #456, 10-23-2008 11:03 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:


If you're redesigning those scoops as well. Have you considered Porsche Cayman inspired scoops as well?


Well if you can send me a Porsche Cayman for development purposes I will do it. I will need the car for say, life?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #457, 10-24-2008 06:34 AM
     
I think I have been hijacked.
Actually, I wish that I had another GT not painted yet. I'd love to have a set of them, but I'm not going to repaint my gold car at this time and I already put scoops on the VR6 project.
Dave


AusFiero (jim@jadeweb.com.au) MSG #458, 10-24-2008 07:28 AM
      Now to get your thread back on track. I am loving the sound of that car. Great job!

Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #459, 10-24-2008 04:02 PM
      I'd be cautious using the stock Fiero fuel pump for a high perfromance application. Although the fuel trims are within spec, extended high RPM operation may require more fuel than the stock Fiero pump can deliver. You'll know after one run down the 1/4 mile under full throttle and pity your pistons if you go lean!. The EP376 Corvette V8 fuel pump is very quiet and puts out plenty of fuel. You can buy new Delphi Corvette pumps for about $50 on eBay and the pump installs just like the Fiero pump-no mods necessary. You may want to consider using it for cheap insurance.



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #460, 10-24-2008 06:25 PM
      we're not running any boost on the VR6 yet, but we'll have to upgrade the pump then. I'm just toying around with a few different changes to see what can work with this combo.
What is the year of the Corvette application for that pump?
Dave


ALLTRBO MSG #461, 10-24-2008 06:34 PM
      If the pump can deliver the peak fuel need for any instant, it's enough. It's running full blast, all the time, so no high RPM operation will wear it out or reduce its output further. The only exception would be if the ECU bumped the fueling after extended WOT running (like the N* does), and it was already on the verge of maximum supply. IMO, there's nothing to worry about it sounds like. Dave knows what he's doing.

Seconded on the 'vette pump for others, though, it flows more and is still quiet. When moderately turbo'd, use the (real) Walbro 255*HP* for an in-tank.

Edit: ^ beat me to it.



ALLTRBO MSG #462, 10-24-2008 06:36 PM
      I believe it's the LT1 Corvettes ('92-'96).

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 10-24-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #463, 10-24-2008 07:56 PM
      Thanks for the info.
We pulled out the Warlbro due to the ungodly "jet taxiing down the runway" sound. I didn't really appreciate driving the car until that noise was gone. Joey has confirmed that the stock Fiero pump seems to make no difference in the car whatsoever.
I think it will be safe for now.
I drove in my gold GT this morning behind the "VIERO 6" (new license plates) today and I was laughing at how much smoke both rear tires made at one of the stop lights. Then about a minute later, I realized that I needed a better engine in place of my 2.8 if I wanted to keep up.
......
We are still discussing our goals with the body shop people and they will be taking the car in around late November. We have already left our $$$ deposit to hold the spot.
When it comes back, I will start on making the interior to Joey's specs, being that she will be the one driving it. I will only insist on the car having one of Shawnhalolush's custom suede headliners and visors(a shameless plug that I will get my 0.00001% commission on)


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #464, 10-25-2008 05:35 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


I think I have been hijacked.

Dave


I think it's because there is a severe lack of pics in this tread.

Without pics we don't have any attention span worth anything..

AusFiero: I don't think you'll need a whole Cayman. (although I agree, that it would be a great car for "long term testing purposes" )
I think just getting the scoop inserts should be enough to get your creative juices flowing. - besides, you'll need to integrate them with the Fiero anyways.


No worries BMWguru. We'll get the thread back to the Vr-6.


anonymity MSG #465, 10-25-2008 03:03 PM
      This is great!! Just great!!

Since when is MY car gonna get OUR paint scheme?!?!?

I am absolutely loving MY car.... its a shame that Dave is finding reasons to take it to work. Like testing this... changing that... racing this, that and the other.....

I seem to be able to drive it between the hours of 5 and 7 am.... the neighbors love that!

Dave and I still argue... violently at times.... about who gets to drive the car when and where.... ( I usually win )..... but I brag constantly about how wonderful the car turned out... Dave did a spectacular job... I would like to drive it more, but I understand that he wants to make sure everything is the way its supposed to be... (he is anal like that)

Maybe I'll convince him to get another video soon.....

Joey


gt88norm MSG #466, 10-25-2008 04:49 PM
      The amount of time you get to drive 'your' car is directly proportional to the amount of time 'till the next project.
Right now the passion for "dialin' it in" is paramount. When planning the next project takes priority then your
"cockpit time" will increase, and maybe . . . just maybe . . . he'll let ya git yer wings in a new plane too.

All in all, except for the "violent argument" part I think things will be OK, the scale always tips one way or the other,
think how boring life'd be if it were static. The best part is makin' up.

Norm


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #467, 10-26-2008 03:29 AM
      What Joey means by our violent argument is that we first disagree about who gets to drive the car. Then it turns into a little playful wrestling match. Or one of us will chase the other all over the house to get hold of the keys. No blood has spilled yet. It's all in good fun....and I usually let her win.
Dave


gt88norm MSG #468, 10-27-2008 12:41 AM
      Oh, . . . To be young again . . . I remember those days, they're still there in memory. Motorcycles, mountain bikes,
& fast cars have raised my titanium levels to such that for the first hour in the morning I feel like Evel Knievel. "Now
where's my cane?" . . . ;^) Stay young, but not dumb, you can still have fun.

Norm

aka:
'Crash Kruse'
pretty much everything but a bus, a boat, and an airplane.
Oh yeah, haven't crashed a train yet (knocks on wood), been RR'n for 30+ yrs..
And still happily married for 26 of 'em!

[This message has been edited by gt88norm (edited 10-27-2008).]

kawana (shawnyb@ymail.com) MSG #469, 10-27-2008 12:52 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

....and I usually let her win...


LET her win? Uh huh.....sure

[This message has been edited by kawana (edited 10-27-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #470, 10-27-2008 05:37 AM
      lol...yeah I have three disadvantages....If I'm winning, she'll pull my hair, my beard or something else
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #471, 10-27-2008 05:07 PM
      I friend of mine sent me an email letting me know that there is a thread on RFT about my choice in Fiero power. Just to set the record straight, I never said my V8 was slow (I never said it was fast either. I advised one person that if they wanted a to go fast do a 3800s/c). I DO prefer to drive the VR6 over the V8. The V8 has a lot of low end torque and it is a blast to drive, but keep in mind that I work on BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Ferrari, MINI, and VW everyday. I see high revving engines more often than old musclecars. I've changed. Ten years ago, I thought the V8 was the best Fiero swap, but now I prefer the VR6. I'd like to try a 3800 next on a car. That doesn't mean I don't like my V8. I do like it. The VR6 starts pulling at 2000RPMS and doesn't stop pulling at 7200RPMS. To me, that is what I like. People change their preferences. I'm not bashing V8 Fieros. I concider my garage to have the best of both worlds.
Here are two videos from today. One of the VR6 and one of the V8. Same roads, ten minutes apart. I left my shop and hit some side streets for some fun.
Don't mind that in the V8, I started to lose it a little bit in the turn....I had it a little too hard into the gas. also, don't mind the camera popping sound. The camera pics up the engine pulses and I'm not much of an editor.
VR6


V8

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 10-27-2008).]

85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #472, 10-27-2008 05:19 PM
      OMFG I want a bigger motor. dave they both sound great. Good work. How did you get the keys from joey long enough to make a vid?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #473, 10-27-2008 05:22 PM
      I usually take her car to work once a week to make sure it is all still holding together. She doesn't know about the video yet, so I may encounter some wrestling later tonight.
Dave


shawnhalolush MSG #474, 10-27-2008 07:20 PM
      I like the V8 a little more than the VR6. It's a much more exciting ride.

P.S. Sorry about the shakiness of the camera...I'm a better mechanic than a camera man.

Shawn


Hudini (hudini@tds.net) MSG #475, 10-27-2008 07:52 PM
      Is that a true coolant filter or something made for other duty? Which hose did you put it on? I'm interested in something like that for my car.

Nice build.


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #476, 10-27-2008 09:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by shawnhalolush:

I like the V8 a little more than the VR6. It's a much more exciting ride.

P.S. Sorry about the shakiness of the camera...I'm a better mechanic than a camera man.

Shawn


No worries.

A good trick is to brace your elbows against your body when filming. It helps a little. Also, every once in a while camera suction mounts can be picked up for cheap various places online, incl. eBay. In this case the rear window
glass would lend itself perfectly for filming.
My dad and I took hours of footage around the world with an expensive cousin of these 15+ years ago. Looks absolutely great and no jittering whatsoever, even back in the day when there wasn't any optical, or digital image stabilization.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #477, 10-28-2008 05:37 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:

Is that a true coolant filter or something made for other duty? Which hose did you put it on? I'm interested in something like that for my car.

Nice build.


The coolant filter is actually a fuel pre filter for a older Mercedes Benz diesel. It can withstand the temp of the coolant and is clear, so I can see through it.
I don't know where you could mount it in the Fiero without putting a bypass hose in the system. The VR6 uses the expansion tank as the fill point and it is under constant pressure. There is a purge line that bleeds off air and that's where I mounted the filter. The fluid can only go one way, so using a normal expansion tank wouldn't be able to use that setup.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 10-28-2008).]

Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #478, 10-28-2008 12:20 PM
      According to the vids, the V8 appears faster.

85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #479, 10-28-2008 01:03 PM
      I think the 8 has more on the bottom end like dave mentioned earlier where the VR6 has more pull in the top and much more rpm's. Just wait till he forces some air into that thing. or better yet goes with an R32 motor.

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #480, 10-28-2008 01:35 PM
      I can't wait until "Mr. Fusion" powered cars become popular. Then the debates will cover "explosion engine" vs. fusion power.


Post some more great vids and pics before the car is "sent away to rehab for 5-6 months".

[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 10-28-2008).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #481, 10-28-2008 01:41 PM
      Dave, I wonder why your camera is "clipping" so much. Are both these cars really loud?

Maybe a cheapie Radio Shack external Mic might alleviate some of these problems. (a faster solution than trying to edit videos)
While you're there you could pick up a Db level meter and measure how loud these cars are inside, exhaust, driveby, etc. (those meters are pretty cheap. I had an electronic one a few years back when I installed my Borla on my Mazda)


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #482, 10-29-2008 05:50 AM
      The cars both have race exhaust and are very loud. My V8 has Dynomax race bullets with no cats and the VR6 has about three feet of pipe with Magnaflow mufflers. I tried to convince Joey that the VR6 needs more backpressure, but she really loves the rumble-pop on deacceleration. The VR6 sounds similar to a Harley with race pipes.
For an experiment, I'll take a video in my gold GT with stock engine to see if it still pops.
As for the latest updates....
I did a thorough checkover of the VR6 yesterday and no issues at all. The only parts that don't function on the car is the speedometer and revese lights. I am still trying to figure out how to make the signal go to the gauge and the ECM and read accurately for both. It really is no big deal, but I need a good solid three hours to do what I need to do to fix it. In the meantime, we have been using the GPS for a speedo.
The other weird thing that I can't figure out is why the electric trunk popper only works when the parking brake is on. Even with the engine off. Before the swap, it would work with the engine off and brake off. Any ideas as to what happened? Also, I am trying to find the signal wire in the C500 for the reverse lights. the one wire that goes to the switch on the transmission and the one to the lights.
Any input would be really appreciated.
Dave


Jncomutt (jncomutt@hotmail.com) MSG #483, 10-29-2008 10:35 AM
      E1 goes to the lights, and C1 is 12v fused from the fuse panel.

Sixstrings MSG #484, 10-29-2008 03:04 PM
      I have driven the VR6 and ridden in the V8. IMO the VR6 is a little better. Both are friggin amazing, don't get me wrong. Maybe it is my history with German cars, but that VR6 is something really special.

[This message has been edited by Sixstrings (edited 10-29-2008).]

gt88norm MSG #485, 10-29-2008 11:06 PM
      Youre "trunk popper" is currently functioing as designed, don't want to wave bye-bye to your car as you're about to set the groceries in.

Norm


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #486, 10-30-2008 05:39 AM
      all of my other Fieros (current and past. all manual transmission) would pop the trunk with the engine on and parking brake on and with the engine off with the parking brake on or off. Since swapping the engine, it only works with the parking brake on. I can't find much info on the trunk release. This is driving me crazy because it worked prior to the swap.
Dave


85pontiac MSG #487, 10-30-2008 06:41 AM
      Don't know if it helps you or not, but on my 5 speed car, if the key is off, the popper will work anytime, park brake or no park brake. If the key is on, the park brake has to be on.

And I mean key on, engine off or running, doesn't matter, just key on.



Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #488, 10-30-2008 07:13 PM
      On my '86 SE MT 4spd the trunk popper only works when the engine is off. Makes sense to me, it's a nice security feature preventing people from accidentally opening the decklid while I'm blasting down the freeway. (It works regardless of the e-brake being engaged, or not)
It is a minor inconvenience though.


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #489, 10-30-2008 07:15 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 85pontiac:

Don't know if it helps you or not, but on my 5 speed car, if the key is off, the popper will work anytime, park brake or no park brake. If the key is on, the park brake has to be on.

And I mean key on, engine off or running, doesn't matter, just key on.



Now I'm curious. I need to try pulling the e-brake with the engine running, and see if the trunk-popper works.


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #490, 10-30-2008 09:44 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
[...] but she really loves the rumble-pop on deacceleration. The VR6 sounds similar to a Harley with race pipes.[...]
Dave


Kind of like the rumble and popping on a MINI Cooper S? Cause that would awesome.
I still can't believe MINI removed that feature from the later model years. - Stupid customers thought it was a defect. Didn't read the manual that MINI designed it that way on purpose in the spirit of the original John Cooper rally cars.

The good news is that the '08 MCS Works edition has the popping again. Unfortunately the regular Turbo S doesn't

The Dodge SRT-4 (Neon)'s have that as well. They burble and pop. Only factory car without mufflers, just a cat. (at least that's how it was advertised)


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #491, 10-31-2008 05:28 AM
      the trunk popper only works when the ebrake is applied whether the engine is running or not. I think I'll take a close look at the wiring this weekend and see if I forgot to hook something up.
As for the MINI's, we see a bunch of them come in the shop. We added a JCW exhaust and 17% s/c pulley to Scrubby's car (I think he has the only automatic S). Have you driven the R56 twin scroll turbo S yet. It builds boost right off idle.
I should be either going to Bear Mountain for a day break on Saturday or going down to the shop to work on the VR6....if I don't spend the day in the ER. I was using the air chisel last night and it jammed and trapped my thumb under it and chiseled my thumb. Shawn wound up having to hammer the air chiesl and my thumb out of the car. If the swelling and pain don't go down, it may be time for some x-rays.
Dave


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #492, 10-31-2008 12:07 PM
      Yea.. Go to the ER!

Don't want to loose your thumb.


gt88norm MSG #493, 10-31-2008 04:41 PM
      OUCH!!! Kinda makes it hard to fight for the keys, doesn't it? .. .. .. :^)

Norm


anonymity MSG #494, 11-01-2008 09:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by gt88norm:

OUCH!!! Kinda makes it hard to fight for the keys, doesn't it? .. .. .. :^)

Norm


didn't stop him from sneaking out with the VR6 this afternoon.
Joey


tjm4fun (tjm4fun@yahoo.com) MSG #495, 11-02-2008 04:56 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

the trunk popper only works when the ebrake is applied whether the engine is running or not. I think I'll take a close look at the wiring this weekend and see if I forgot to hook something up.
....if I don't spend the day in the ER. I was using the air chisel last night and it jammed and trapped my thumb under it and chiseled my thumb. Shawn wound up having to hammer the air chiesl and my thumb out of the car. If the swelling and pain don't go down, it may be time for some x-rays.
Dave


Is your blue dingy thingy plugged in?
that is the only other source for ground for the relay other than the parking brake switch.


Hope the finger is ok.

Back to lurkin....
Oh, Nice job on the build. done the way it should be, carefully with attention to detail and the target results...


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #496, 11-02-2008 08:06 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by tjm4fun:


Is your blue dingy thingy plugged in?
that is the only other source for ground for the relay other than the parking brake switch.


Hope the finger is ok.

Back to lurkin....
Oh, Nice job on the build. done the way it should be, carefully with attention to detail and the target results...


I'll check it out this week. I'm pretty sure that the blue dingy thingy is removed from the car due to it's annoying properties. I never made it to Bear Mountain or the ER yesterday because my gold GT's fuel pump wouldn't shut off. I traced it back to the oil pressure switch. So, instead I went out driving the orange and black GT and then joey's VR6 and stopped at Applebees for some Killians. I think it was better that way.
Dave


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #497, 11-02-2008 10:43 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I'll post up a new video soon with the tach in the picture. It is pretty cool to watch it spin up to almost 8,000 rpms...and the sound is just plain sexy.
Dave


I didn't know Vr-6's rev that high. Is that stock specs, or is it because of modifications?

What is the redline anyways?


Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #498, 11-03-2008 12:51 AM
      Not to get too far afield...but I have a question. My MkII Jetta originally came with a 4 cylinder; I got the tach working by running the output signal from the first and third coilpack on my VR6, so the tach sees four impulses from the motor for each rpm. It reads accurately up to about 5 grand, and as it passes thru 5,000 rpm, the tach drops down to about 2,000 rpm indicated until the revs come back down. (93 Passat motor, if that makes any difference)
Any ideas on how to correct/compensate?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #499, 11-03-2008 06:34 AM
      Vonov,
I would get a VR6 tach or an aftermarket tach. The VDO one I use will work on just about any engine.
The redline is 7200...(or 7500if I remember correctly)....and it pulls the whole way there. It is about 200-300 higher than stock with the programming.
Joey and I got to take out the V8 and VR6 together over the weekend. The V8 is definitely faster and pulls harder, but the VR6 is still more fun IMO to drive because of the powerband. We were turning a lot of heads when we went out...probably because the cars are so loud.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 11-03-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #500, 11-09-2008 04:32 PM
      I started building a bigger brake kit for this car. I found a good balance using Audi TT 12.5" brake discs, VW Jetta calipers and my own adapters. No drilling of the bolt pattern is necesary. The Audi is a 5x100 just like the Fiero.
Other than that, I got the speedo working properly and just ordered a new set of lowering springs, so I will be selling the WCF front springs and the rear springs that are coming in the set I bought....so check the mall later this week.
I'm hoping to get "The Shawn" suede headliner and visors made later this month before it goes off to paint.
I'll post up some pics of the brake kit later this week when I find five minutes.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #501, 11-10-2008 10:00 AM
      Here is a teaser pic of what I am working on for the VR6. I still need to aquire a hubcentric ring and make the caliper bracket, but it all looks do-able and pretty easy to accomplish. The rotor was not redrilled. That is the stock pattern for the Audi.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 11-10-2008).]

85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #502, 11-14-2008 08:14 PM
      Dave you just can't stop tinkering. When does the R32 start? You should do it while the VR6 is in paint.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #503, 11-14-2008 08:36 PM
      The next swap we are doing at the shop will make this look like a walk in the park. The VR6 was a good way to cut my teeth on German swaps. The R32 will be done when I find a great deal on a crashed R32.
I'm selling a bunch of stuff from my shop to raise some extra cash for my next crazy swap. I'm $3000 shy at this point, so expect to see a lot of stuff of mine show up on fleabay, craigslist and the mall here. (I'm not selling any of my Fieros, though). Only a small handful of people know what the next swap is.
Anyway, back to this VR6.....
Joey and I are shopping for rims and I found exactly what I want on the car, but I am not about to lay out the cash for a set of custom HREs. Not with all the potholes here in Jersey. Joey wants a 18x8 and 18x9 with a seven spoke type of pattern. She insists on a big brake kit. I think the car needs bigger tires first, but the brakes are a close second.
I just got the new lowering springs and I'll be selling the WCF springs within the next two weeks.
Dave
ps...I still have no feeling in my thumb. Probably nerve damage?

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 11-14-2008).]

kawana (shawnyb@ymail.com) MSG #504, 11-14-2008 10:10 PM
      sorry if this was already asked, but are you thinking about making a few kits to swap these engines in? Could help raise that $3000 you need

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #505, 11-14-2008 10:22 PM
      I don't think I could do a kit. The shifter was a real nightmare of a fabrication that took hours to get working even after the parts were installed. The mounts were pretty easy to do, but I don't want to run into the negativity that has been casted towards Archie, FieroX, PR etc. I'm happy just repairing German cars for a living and making cool Fieros for a hobby.

weaselbeak (dynamic_88@hotmail.com) MSG #506, 11-14-2008 11:01 PM
      My 86 GT trunk popper will only work with the switch off, brake or no brake. Don't know if it's supposed to be that way, but it is.

Fierology MSG #507, 11-15-2008 02:01 PM
      Did these scoops go in well? They look great. I'm thinking of getting some when I'm ready to paint.


 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:




-Michael



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #508, 11-15-2008 07:04 PM
      I had no issues putting on the scoops. The body shop will be taking them off to paint the car anyway, but I wanted to make the CAI functional for now.
Dave


darkhorizon MSG #509, 11-15-2008 08:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I had no issues putting on the scoops. The body shop will be taking them off to paint the car anyway, but I wanted to make the CAI functional for now.
Dave


99.9% of the air coming into that area comes in from underneath.


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #510, 11-16-2008 01:27 AM
      Did you figure out why your camera is clipping yet?

I'm still thinking it's a camera mic thing. Here's the in-famous Twin Vr-6 VW Lupo swap (which is obviously waay louder than your cars. No soundproofing 2x the engine, fairly aggressive exhaust system, etc.)
http://s104.photobucket.com...rent=14112008068.flv

btw.: the 24v Vr-6 is still
That engine is a total beauty (visually at least)
Would that fit in a Fiero? How much is it different from your swap? (would it bolt in instead of the 12v?)


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #511, 11-16-2008 08:07 AM
      The air filter has the scoop and underside fully open so it is getting colder air over a stock air box.
The camera clipping is most likely because it is a cheap camera. I spent all my money on the Fiero swap.
The 24v is the same size as the 12v, so I imagine it would bolt right in.
I found a couple of cool backwoods deserted roads that I can open it up on. I also know of a private airport that will let me play at certain times. I might have to wait for spring because it is going into the body shop in a week or two. Then when it comes back I'll be giving it a rim job and bigger brakes.
Dave
ps...I got pulled over last week for the tint and loud exhaust and the cop was a motor head and we talked about the swap for 15 minutes and I got off with no ticket for the tint, illegal license late cover and loud exhaust.


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #512, 11-16-2008 04:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
The camera clipping is most likely because it is a cheap camera. I spent all my money on the Fiero swap.
The 24v is the same size as the 12v, so I imagine it would bolt right in.



Nothing wrong with that.
Cameras just take video. Without great engine swaps, there is nothing worthwhile to take videos of anyways.
So there wouldn't be any need for a great camera.

When you say "bold right in" do you mean, it physically fits, but you have to do different tranny mounts, engine mounts, different tranny, different hookups for various lines and electrical? Or is it "bolt right in" like swapping Honda engines between different Honda cars?


Fierology MSG #513, 11-16-2008 11:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


99.9% of the air coming into that area comes in from underneath.


I would assume that ducting those quarters direct to the throttle body would create a positive ram-air effect. Correct?

(I know that's not what you did; I'm thinking ahead.)

-Michael

[This message has been edited by Fierology (edited 11-16-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #514, 11-17-2008 06:35 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

When you say "bold right in" do you mean, it physically fits, but you have to do different tranny mounts, engine mounts, different tranny, different hookups for various lines and electrical? Or is it "bolt right in" like swapping Honda engines between different Honda cars?


I imagine that it would bolt right in into my current mounts...The engines are almost identical in external size. I would probably run the six speed manual from a '04 Jetta. When I do the swap, I'd probably start from scratch again and see if I can make it better, but the mounts seem great. There is massive abuse going through he drivetrain now and nothing has shifted and I am not running a dog bone. Each mount has its own counter angle built into it for a little extra protection.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #515, 12-01-2008 07:52 PM
      Just wanted to post up that evn with Joey's "spirited" driving ie spinning the tires at every light...the swap is still holding together with no issues (except needing rear tires) and it is averaging 21mpg with a mixture of city/hwy/spinning tires driving. I'm taking a break from any more mods until it heads out to the body shop for paint. I'll post progress pics then.
Also, since my shop has become a GIAC dealer, I will be revamping the tune on the car a little bit more. The current tune is a 8 of 10 in my opinion. I want an 11.
After listening to Joey talk about the car, I think it will only be a matter of time before she insists on a turbo.
Dave


Brocephus (jarojj99@oneonta.edu) MSG #516, 12-01-2008 10:02 PM
      I can't believe I'm just now seeing this swap here. It's not all that different from the Nissan CA18DET swap I'm doing in my other '84. (Nissan 1.8L, 16 valve, DOHC, turbo)

I absolutely love the exhaust note. Would really like to hear a couple of drive-by recordings. Where did you do your conversion from VW to Pontiac? If you used the VW axles, I'm assuming you did your conversion at the struts and lower control arms?

I'd love to see a pic of your shift linkage in the back as well. I had to fabricate an entire manual shift linkage from scratch that adapted the Fiero cables to take the place of the Nissan shift rods. I haven't posted pictures of the shift linkage yet as I'm not real thrilled with it, but if you think you might be able to lend a bit of guidance or insight, I can snap a few pics. This is my build thread so far.

Again, I love the build, I love the fact that it's 100% completed, and I'm thrilled that you're both 110% satisfied.

[This message has been edited by Brocephus (edited 12-01-2008).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #517, 12-02-2008 08:06 AM
      I used the entire drivetrain from the Jetta. I had the driveshaft shop make me up a set of custom axles this way I could position the engine exactly where I wanted it and didn't have to conform to and particular specs.
Dave


85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #518, 12-02-2008 02:21 PM
      Brocephus Dave owns his own shop that works on german cars mainly. Dave again you are very talented. To think you started with a fiero and a wrecked jetta. Good job.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #519, 12-06-2008 10:19 AM
      Just wanted to update the fuel mileage....we have been averaging 27.6 mpg on the highway over the last week. I found a small vacuum leak from the intake manifold changeover tuning valve vacuum element. One that was replaced, we picked up some decent mpg.
I'll be taking the car to the Garden State Fiero meet tomorrow.
Dave


Gokart Mozart MSG #520, 12-31-2008 07:49 AM
      year end bump!

Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #521, 12-31-2008 08:13 AM
      I must say that this swap might have created more interest than any other swap being done on this forum in 2008. Perhaps this is because it is so unorthodox. Dave brought the VR6 Fiero to last months GSFC meeting and it looks like the VR6 Fiero is a very well done and neat installation. It reminds me of a N* swap where the engine compartment looks totally full but when the engine is started the sound is totally European.
This swap may only be for the select few but it has been a labor of love for Dave who has created one unique automobile. Knowing Dave I can only guess that he will redesign the suspension so it performs like a Porsch-LOL!. IMO swaps like this are one in a million and I don't see Dave doing another one as I'll make another guess; at his shop rate he has $75,000 worth of labor in this swap .



Gokart Mozart MSG #522, 12-31-2008 08:29 AM
      but he did say if he did it again he knows what to do differently and would be a faster instal with less fab work.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #523, 12-31-2008 09:10 AM
      Yeah, I don't think I can stay away from complicated swaps. It keeps me focused. Although, now that the swap is finished and the body shop is taking the car in, I'll be able to finally catch up on the work around the house.
Shawn(halolush) and I are doing a swap this winter. I'll be picking up the donor car within the next few weeks. The only thing I am going to say about this next swap is that it will be more intense. I'm not going to do a build thread because there is a 50% chance that we won't be able to pull it off, but we're going to try....and yes it is a german based engine.
Happy Holidays
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 12-31-2008).]

Eau_Rouge MSG #524, 12-31-2008 06:44 PM
      Bmwguru, since you're very knowledgeable about German cars, maybe you can answer a question for me that I've been kicking around for a while. I've got a 2002 Mercedes C230 Kompressor as a daily driver (2.3L 16v supercharged, 6 speed manual transmission) and have been kicking around the idea of buying a Mercedes 190e and transplanting my current car's drive train (rebuilt for more power) into it when I'm ready for a new daily driver. I've always loved the 190's since I saw Senna beat the then current F1 stars and would love to have a high performance/modern drivetrain 190 16v. Is this even possible or should I just look at getting a 190 2.3 16v. I'd rather do the drivetrain transplant as the Cosworth 16v's are a bit expensive (for a good one) and as I've heard, maintenance on one is also very expensive. Will this be my next project car after my fiero is complete or not?

Sorry to get off topic, but I'm very curious and again you seem to really know your German cars. Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and Happy New Year


red84fieroman MSG #525, 01-01-2009 09:22 PM
      wow, after reading this entire thread the moment i'm ready for a serious swap in my fiero im driving all the way up to jersey for it. Your really know what your doing BMW some would call you a madman but im glad the Fiero enthusiasts have someone like you on theyre side!

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #526, 01-02-2009 10:18 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Eau_Rouge:

Bmwguru, since you're very knowledgeable about German cars, maybe you can answer a question for me that I've been kicking around for a while. I've got a 2002 Mercedes C230 Kompressor as a daily driver (2.3L 16v supercharged, 6 speed manual transmission) and have been kicking around the idea of buying a Mercedes 190e and transplanting my current car's drive train (rebuilt for more power) into it when I'm ready for a new daily driver. I've always loved the 190's since I saw Senna beat the then current F1 stars and would love to have a high performance/modern drivetrain 190 16v. Is this even possible or should I just look at getting a 190 2.3 16v. I'd rather do the drivetrain transplant as the Cosworth 16v's are a bit expensive (for a good one) and as I've heard, maintenance on one is also very expensive. Will this be my next project car after my fiero is complete or not?

Sorry to get off topic, but I'm very curious and again you seem to really know your German cars. Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and Happy New Year


There would be a lot involved in dropping in the C230K engine and transmission. It almost wouldn't be worth it with the high failure rate of the superchargers. You would basically need the entire front half of the car and keep in mind the engine needs to see signals from the EIS, and instrument cluster to work. If it were an automatic, the shifter has its own module and that would be another issue.
The 16v 102 engine would be a nice swap. You also could drop in a turbo 103 2.6 or 3.0. There are a few of them making some decent numbers. You also can find a five speed manual transmission from a 300e or 190e as well. If I were to concider an engine swap in a 190e, it would be either of those two....or go crazy and drop a V8 from an Audi V8 Quattro or a Porsche 928.

 
quote
Originally posted by red84fieroman:

wow, after reading this entire thread the moment i'm ready for a serious swap in my fiero im driving all the way up to jersey for it. Your really know what your doing BMW some would call you a madman but im glad the Fiero enthusiasts have someone like you on theyre side!


Thanks. You'll probably get a kick out of our next swap. The research is done and we are ready for the build. Just a couple of pennies short, so I'll be posting some stuff up for sale on ebay.




matthewc (matthew.carley@worldnet.att.net) MSG #527, 01-04-2009 01:37 PM
      Just found your thread and read all 14 pages! I have to say I am truly impressed with the level of perfection you put into this swap. It doesn't get much better than the level of craftsmanship you put into your project. I and several other have been theorizing on an interesting swap for the Fiero based Ferrari F40 replica I am in the process of buying. I'll shoot you a PM on the details as I would like to get a "second set of eyes" on my plan. Matt

Eau_Rouge MSG #528, 01-04-2009 11:35 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


Thanks. You'll probably get a kick out of our next swap. The research is done and we are ready for the build. Just a couple of pennies short, so I'll be posting some stuff up for sale on ebay.



Great, thanks for the info. Not what I wanted to hear but its what I expected.
Thanks again.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #529, 01-14-2009 01:29 PM
      The body shop is getting ready to finally take the car in. The color has been chosen and it is another one of a kind paint jobs (as of today) in the Fiero world. The delay was caused by a leaky sunroof that just started. I wound up replacing the tracks that were rotted away and a new sunroof seal. Also drilled the holes for the drains while I was in there. Hose tested and it is all good.
I will post in progress at the body shop pics to continue this thread.
Here are a few shots of the new tracks and seal. I should have done a step by step for the tracks being that I didn't find much info on replacement of the tracks. I also made some slight mods under the tracks to prevent any future leaking.
Dave





85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #530, 01-14-2009 03:37 PM
      Dave you really aren't giving any hints on the new build are you?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #531, 01-15-2009 08:02 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 85duke:

Dave you really aren't giving any hints on the new build are you?


No hints yet. Only a few know what we are planning. I have to take care of a couple of other customer's projects first. Anyway, I'll be bringing the VR6 home for the weekend so Joey can have one last outing in it before it gets dropped off on Wednesday at the body shop. In the meantime, I'll be working on the bigger brake kit using the Audi TT brakes and I'll shop for rims and tires.
Dave


foxgapfiero (hoaglanm@ptd.net) MSG #532, 01-16-2009 07:53 AM
      Damn, I wanted to see that thing in Flemington.
Oh well, I least I'll see everyone else there.

Mark


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #533, 01-21-2009 01:08 PM
      Just an update.....
The VR6 was driven to the body shop one hour ago. The grand scheme of the paint is still a secret at this time. Unfortunately, those who have been informed...well, the color has changed and it will be a one of a kind paint job. Hopefully, my shop will have a good year to be able to cover this
Here are some before pics.....






85duke (benjeminatate@aol.com) MSG #534, 01-25-2009 02:37 AM
      Well Dave whats new?

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #535, 01-25-2009 02:43 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by 85duke:

Well Dave whats new?


+1


Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #536, 02-07-2009 05:33 AM
      Can't wait to see the finished result...

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #537, 02-07-2009 06:35 AM
      nothing new yet. The car is still at the body shop...all the body panels off from what I heard. I'll update once I have something new. In the meantime, I am working on another project that I should keep me occupied for the next few weeks.
Dave


Gokart Mozart MSG #538, 02-16-2009 03:03 PM
      just a bump

anonymity MSG #539, 02-17-2009 08:38 AM
      Its so sad to hear that my car is all apart at the body shop.... I really miss lighting up the tires at the stop lights!

Since most of you know I LOVE going on crazy road trips.... I was thinking about maybe doing some traveling in the VR-6. I'd only be able to do weekend trips so I could be back home for Dave to go to work....

Keep an eye out for a road trip thread in o/t....

Until then.... the paint will be kept secret until I get my car back..... Sorry guys!

We'll keep ya informed about the time frame as well as we can.

I'm so proud of my husband for being able to pull off this swap.... I didn't have any doubts that he could do it....

I absolutely love my car and can't wait to get it back!!!!!

Joey (bmwguru's wife)


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #540, 02-21-2009 02:32 AM
      Cool. I'm glad you like it.

Btw.: if you guys ever feel like travelling further than a day trip, you're always welcome in Monterey, California.


anonymity MSG #541, 02-22-2009 01:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

Cool. I'm glad you like it.

Btw.: if you guys ever feel like travelling further than a day trip, you're always welcome in Monterey, California.


Looks like your straight out I-80... google maps says it should take 1 day 21 hours....

I'm willing to bet I can beat that..... especially in the VR-6 Fiero!

btw: Don't let Dave see this...


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #542, 02-23-2009 12:57 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by anonymity:


Looks like your straight out I-80... google maps says it should take 1 day 21 hours....

I'm willing to bet I can beat that..... especially in the VR-6 Fiero!

btw: Don't let Dave see this...


hehe

Is that all? I always thought NY was much farther away.


suPrcarNthusiast (yatckosket@yahoo.com) MSG #543, 03-02-2009 10:40 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I measured the GM 2.8 end to end with transmission and got 36". I measured the VW 2.8 and got 33.5"
This should be easier than I thought.
Dave



What was the length of just the VR6 engine? I'm trying to compile different VW/Audi engines for a longitudinal set-up. I figure it should be the same length as the W12 which comes in at 22" from transmission flange to the front crank pulley, I've heard they use similar heads. If you ever get a 2.7L Bi-turbo in your shop it would be nice to know the length on that too.

I've seen the Bi-turbo squeezed into the back of a Lotus Elise and the 4.2L V8 (20" long) shoehorned into a Lotus Esprit both with the 6-speed 01X. I stopped researching the W8 (17" long) because I heard they were unserviceable. Something about head gaskets not being available. You wouldn't tell us your next project so I hope I didn't spoil anything by bringing up these combos ideas. If you want to see an Audi bi-turbo 4.2L checkout the Gumpert, TopGear did an episode on it; 650 HP.

Look forward to the next project announcement.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #544, 03-03-2009 06:09 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by suPrcarNthusiast:
What was the length of just the VR6 engine? I'm trying to compile different VW/Audi engines for a longitudinal set-up. I figure it should be the same length as the W12 which comes in at 22" from transmission flange to the front crank pulley, I've heard they use similar heads. If you ever get a 2.7L Bi-turbo in your shop it would be nice to know the length on that too.

I've seen the Bi-turbo squeezed into the back of a Lotus Elise and the 4.2L V8 (20" long) shoehorned into a Lotus Esprit both with the 6-speed 01X. I stopped researching the W8 (17" long) because I heard they were unserviceable. Something about head gaskets not being available. You wouldn't tell us your next project so I hope I didn't spoil anything by bringing up these combos ideas. If you want to see an Audi bi-turbo 4.2L checkout the Gumpert, TopGear did an episode on it; 650 HP.

Look forward to the next project announcement.


The secret project got put on hold for a few moths while I setup the "Haus of Guru" which will open part of my shop to the Fiero community whois looking for high quality swap work. I have a 2.7 bi turbo and a 4.2 S4 in my shop right now, but measuring the engines while they are in the car might be tricky. I do have a 2.8 AHA 30v from a 2000 A6 out of the car right now. I can measure that, but honestly the 1.8t can be made to be more than enough power. Austrian Import sent me a link from ebay with a 2.0t up for auction cheap. If I wan't already committed to a few jobs, I would have picked it up and swapped it in a Fiero. That would have been very nice. As for the W8...everything is available. Most of it will have to be ordered from the dealership.
Dave


loafer87gt MSG #545, 03-03-2009 10:59 AM
      I was just going to say a 1.8T swap would be sweet. It would be easy to get 250 HP / 270 TQ with this set up and the lighter engine might be better suited to the Fiero as well.

Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #546, 04-19-2009 01:33 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by anonymity:

Its so sad to hear that my car is all apart at the body shop.... I really miss lighting up the tires at the stop lights!

Since most of you know I LOVE going on crazy road trips.... I was thinking about maybe doing some traveling in the VR-6. I'd only be able to do weekend trips so I could be back home for Dave to go to work....

Keep an eye out for a road trip thread in o/t....

Until then.... the paint will be kept secret until I get my car back..... Sorry guys!

We'll keep ya informed about the time frame as well as we can.

I'm so proud of my husband for being able to pull off this swap.... I didn't have any doubts that he could do it....

I absolutely love my car and can't wait to get it back!!!!!

Joey (bmwguru's wife)


So, Mr or Miz Guru...(lol) any word on when the VR(ooom)-6 is coming out of the paint shop? Pics??



Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #547, 04-19-2009 01:39 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by loafer87gt:

I was just going to say a 1.8T swap would be sweet. It would be easy to get 250 HP / 270 TQ with this set up and the lighter engine might be better suited to the Fiero as well.


A TDI swap would be cool, too, especially with the torque you can get out of a diesel...and run it on biodiesel. (Most people don't realize that Otto Diesel originally designed his engine to run on peanut oil.)


anonymity MSG #548, 04-19-2009 07:36 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Vonov:


So, Mr or Miz Guru...(lol) any word on when the VR(ooom)-6 is coming out of the paint shop? Pics??


All I am gonna say is.....

It's coming along nicely. I'll be heading back to the body shop once a week so I can see the progress. Dave will post the pics when I finally get it back.

Sorry, no pics until its all done.....

Joey


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #549, 04-26-2009 07:44 PM
      The Vr-6 finally made Jalopnik.com 's "Engine of the Day", well in "W" form.

http://jalopnik.com/5227085...the-day-volkswagen-w





aconesa (a.conesa@verizon.net) MSG #550, 05-19-2009 12:09 PM
      Any updates yet??

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #551, 05-19-2009 12:41 PM
      Still at the body shop getting the "show quality" paint job done. I am really really wanting Joey to get her car back so that I can drive it she can drive it.
Dave


anonymity MSG #552, 05-24-2009 08:39 AM
      Latest update....

I'll be spending quite a bit of time with the body shop guys this coming week to oversee the details. I should be able to pick up my car in about 2 weeks! I will be taking pics of the progress, but wont be posting them til I get my car back....

Its gonna be another one of a kind paint job!

Thats all I'm sayin for now...

Joey (bmwguru's wife)


Wilky MSG #553, 05-24-2009 06:54 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

The Vr-6 finally made Jalopnik.com 's "Engine of the Day", well in "W" form.

http://jalopnik.com/5227085...the-day-volkswagen-w




Can I smell a true 12 cylinder Fiero......now your playing in my world btw. I've been playing with VWs now for about 4 years.
Mine

And the Wifes


Gokart Mozart MSG #554, 05-27-2009 08:17 PM
      Will you be posting pics here or in general?

anonymity MSG #555, 05-28-2009 06:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:

Will you be posting pics here or in general?



Pics will be posted here... I will have Dave post up 2 teaser pics later today. I should be able to pick up the car in about a week, give or take.

I'm so excited! My car is done except for the clear coat....

Don't be disappointed by the teaser pics.... The paint job has been a secret... and will remain so until I pick it up....

Joey


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #556, 05-28-2009 12:46 PM
      I saw Joey's vision in person for the first time today and all I can say is ZOMG! (inside joke). Wow. What we had originally talked about has gone past anything I could have thought of. There were hours of time spent on the "flashy part" of the paintjob. This exceeds my orange and black GT, and Joey is to be given the full credit for her design. Here is a teaser pic that doesn't reveal too much except for the base coat.
If all goes well, she will have her car back in her hands within ten days and driving it across the country within a month.
Dave




aconesa (a.conesa@verizon.net) MSG #557, 06-02-2009 12:22 PM
      Great so far. How many more days before the VR6 comes home?

Abe


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #558, 06-02-2009 03:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aconesa:

Great so far. How many more days before the VR6 comes home?

Abe


next week. Maybe I can convince Joey to text you a sneak peak.


Gokart Mozart MSG #559, 06-02-2009 10:37 PM
      OK, there's only one teaser pic. You really know how to tease...

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #560, 06-03-2009 08:45 AM
      pic #2. Our friend starting the "work of art"


Jake_Dragon MSG #561, 06-03-2009 08:47 PM
      Page 15 is mine

 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

pic #2. Our friend starting the "work of art"


looks gay :P

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 06-03-2009).]

anonymity MSG #562, 06-03-2009 08:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:

Page 15 is mine


looks gay :P




Well.... I guess I should scratch Florida off the VR-6 road trip planner...


Anyway, I should be able to post another pic Friday....

Stay tuned.....

Joey


KurtAKX MSG #563, 06-04-2009 04:24 AM
      Awww sweet!!! Unicorns holding hands!!!
(the universal expression of heterosexuality, right?)

I hope somebody reproduces those hood graphics in a vinyl decal, so I can rock that style, too.
Kidding!

Awesome swap!

Are Eurovan VR6 engines/transmissions significantly different than their Jetta counterparts in any way?

[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 06-04-2009).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #564, 06-04-2009 08:52 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KurtAKX:

Awww sweet!!! Unicorns holding hands!!!
(the universal expression of heterosexuality, right?)

I hope somebody reproduces those hood graphics in a vinyl decal, so I can rock that style, too.
Kidding!

Awesome swap!

Are Eurovan VR6 engines/transmissions significantly different than their Jetta counterparts in any way?



It is actually Pegasus's...not unicorns (the wings were not brushed on yet). I keep telling Joey to post up the whole car because the hood design doesn't get proper credit without the rest of the paint. Maybe she will have a better pic, or you will have to wait until it is done 100%. The hard part with airbrushing is knowing when to stop. We didn't want to get a mural painted all over the car...but she wanted something crazy and suited for the car.

As for the Eurovan VR6...it is a different engine and transmission. The block is essentially the same, but the engine code is different...which makes it specific to the Eurovan. The intake is also a long runner fixed setup. Some are actually VR5 (5 cylinder VR engines)...depends on the year.
Go drive a stock 2000ish VR6 Jetta or Golf. Then imagine what it would feel like modded.
Like I said before, this VR6 grossly outperforms (in every aspect) my 3800s/c Fiero w/ 3.4 pulley.

Dave


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #565, 06-04-2009 03:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
Like I said before, this VR6 grossly outperforms (in every aspect) my 3800s/c Fiero w/ 3.4 pulley.
Dave


Because of the power / weight ratios?

What are the respective weights anyways?

It would be really nice, especially because, isn't the Vr-6 down about 100hp ??tq from the 3800SC?



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #566, 06-05-2009 11:57 AM
      More "in Progress" pics....


KaijuSenso MSG #567, 06-07-2009 09:30 PM
      Just wanted to iterate again,

You're My Hero!


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #568, 06-08-2009 08:48 AM
      The paint is all Joey's idea....the engine swap was mine. This is "our" build. The teaser pics don't give justice to the final outcome. Joey won't post any more pics until it is back from the body shop. I am not looking forward to the bill, but the original estimate was $17,000. I was able to get the bill down some by working some angles, but this will be a one off paint job.
Dave


anonymity MSG #569, 06-11-2009 06:09 PM
      I dropped off some last minute gaskets and clips to put the car back together... I don't argue with the body shop about the time frame cuz their work is excellent. They found some minor imperfections in the paint due to the air brusher being hands on artistic.

Those who have been able to sneak a peek.... Or twist Dave's arm enough to see the design... have all said its great.

I have been keeping in touch with the body guys... Trying to get them to hurry up and finish... I wanna drive my car!! But, then again, you can't rush quality.

I'll have Dave post one more pic friday... but that's it til I get her back...

Joey


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #570, 06-12-2009 03:57 AM
      I'm really curious to see what engine bay treatments you guys did.
Seeing pictures of the VW community, I can see that some of these engine bays are very artistic, and either the engine cover, or the valve cover have been extensively modified to be .


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #571, 06-12-2009 08:28 AM
      We left the engine bay stock looking, so that the engine can be easily identified as a VW engine to a non-dubber. Here is another not-finished pic and probably the last pic we will post until the car is 100% completed.
Dave


Gokart Mozart MSG #572, 06-12-2009 03:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
...until the car is 100% completed.


and when will that be?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #573, 06-13-2009 07:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:


and when will that be?


I am hoping to have the car back in Joey's hands by Friday the 19th. The body shop is running late as usual, but well worth the wait. The rim and tires should be in our hands by Wednesday. We went with a "suitable" rim for the swap and Cooper Zeon Sport A/S tires.
Dave


ALLTRBO MSG #574, 06-13-2009 08:13 PM
     

Gokart Mozart MSG #575, 06-14-2009 06:20 AM
     

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #576, 06-16-2009 04:28 PM
      I totally understand that you're going to wait until the car is complete to post add'l pictures, but when you do, would you mind posting all the ones you have of the paint-in-progress? Those kinds of pictures totally facinate me..

Beautiful work btw..


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #577, 06-16-2009 09:01 PM
      No problem. I have about 30 or so "in progress" pics of the body shop work. i just mounted the tires on to the new "select" rims of choice today....not too bad, a 3 day turnaround time on having the rims delivered from the time ordered. Maybe Joey will let me post a pic of the rims and tires to keep this thread going until she picks up the car.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 06-16-2009).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #578, 06-17-2009 02:10 PM
      Dave,
Have you considered doing something like this to show off the cool VR-6 engine?

Here with the Fiero engine:
 
quote
Originally posted by skitime:



Here with the 3800SC engine:
 
quote
Originally posted by JCUOIT:
Engine Window with 'mood lighting'





I think a few others did something similar to a Fiero, but I can't find good search terms to find the threads/pics.

edit: I did find another thread with pics, and a howto:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050818-1-043857.html
I'm wondering if this were as easy on a notchie. Is the Vr-6 engine set lower than the stock 2.8l?

[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 06-17-2009).]

anonymity MSG #579, 06-17-2009 04:35 PM
      COME ON, GUYS!!

Can't I get my car back and just be able to drive it for a while before you all start giving Dave ideas....

Bad enough he did the engine swap.... before I wanted him to...

Then he dropped it off to the body shop.... when I wasn't looking...

I'm only getting slightly frustrated that the "design" has been finished and the initial clear coat over it for about three weeks....

I understand body shops are busy, and the work involved is alot more detailed and intricate than your average engine swap....

But before you all go filling Dave's head with ideas on "improvements"....

Let me drive it around for a while...

BTW, keep your eyes peeled in O/T for a VR-6 road trip thread....

VR-6 Fiero... coming to your town SOON!!!


Joey


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #580, 06-17-2009 06:09 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by anonymity:
BTW, keep your eyes peeled in O/T for a VR-6 road trip thread....

VR-6 Fiero... coming to your town SOON!!!
Joey


Nothing O/T about that. It's in a Fiero. So post it in GFC.
Many people don't frequent O/T as much anymore, and this is definitely Fiero related, so it should be in GFC.


anonymity MSG #581, 06-17-2009 06:53 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:


Nothing O/T about that. It's in a Fiero. So post it in GFC.
Many people don't frequent O/T as much anymore, and this is definitely Fiero related, so it should be in GFC.


Thanks!! I'll definitely post my road trip thread in GFC....

Any requests as to where I should plan on goin? Keep in mind... I would be leaving no earlier than a Friday morning and would have to be back home by that Monday night.... So make sure you check google maps to see if its possible... though I do recall driving over 4,000 miles in that same time frame last year....

Joey

Edit to say... Dave wants me to stay close for the first road trip... So...I figure within 1500 miles is close, right?

[This message has been edited by anonymity (edited 06-17-2009).]

Gokart Mozart MSG #582, 06-17-2009 09:05 PM
      http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/075857.html
670 mi




ALLTRBO MSG #583, 06-18-2009 08:58 PM
      You know where I live now, stop by! I need to see the beauty in its all of its full Fiero-on-fire glory.
This one might actually make it up the driveway.



Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #584, 06-19-2009 01:58 PM
      ARRRRRGHHH!!!! WHERE IS IT??? I stayed away from this thread for two whole months, and they haven't got the car back to you guys YET???? And NO pics??? "Where's my damn shotgun? Hmmmm,map, gas card, cup holder, astronaut diapers...that damn body shop is gonna regret this..."

[This message has been edited by Vonov (edited 06-19-2009).]

Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #585, 06-19-2009 05:16 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by anonymity:


Thanks!! I'll definitely post my road trip thread in GFC....

Any requests as to where I should plan on goin? Keep in mind... I would be leaving no earlier than a Friday morning and would have to be back home by that Monday night.... So make sure you check google maps to see if its possible... though I do recall driving over 4,000 miles in that same time frame last year....

Joey

Edit to say... Dave wants me to stay close for the first road trip... So...I figure within 1500 miles is close, right?



Joey: Try driving out to Carlisle and join all of us at the huge car show next Saturday. For a champ driver as yourself 160 miles one way should be a cake walk. If you have not registered, twenty five unreserved spots are available to Fiero owners on the show field. Many Fiero owners would likew to see your one-of-a-kind flaming "VolksFiero" You can park it in the modified Fiero section and it will be an attention getter for sure.



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #586, 06-19-2009 05:31 PM
      We went to go pick up the car today....not good news. The car needs to be reassembled and have all the trim installed. Since all the painting was done, we installed the new rims and tires, but couldn't bring it home today. They promised us Monday it would be done, so I assume by mid week we should have it back.
Joey was beyond pissed off and made it quite clear that she was not happy about them missing their deadline. I'd hate for them to rush it at the last minute and just finish it to 110%.
When the car comes back, I have to reassemble the interior and maybe I'll talk Joey into a set of Mr. Mike's seats.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #587, 06-19-2009 09:39 PM
      This is how the car looked when we showed up to pick it up. I managed to sneak a pic with the new rims on it. I snuck this pic in this thread 'cause Joey is too depressed to even look at this thread right now.
So, anyone recognize what factory car the rims are from? (and no guesses from Alltrbo, he gave us the idea for them)
Dave



Tony Kania MSG #588, 06-19-2009 09:54 PM
      They look like a neighbors VW rims. Sorry to hear that your car is not ready. But, remember, perfection takes time. It will be worth the wait. I like how you are not showing the total package just yet.



Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #589, 06-20-2009 02:54 AM
      I'm going to guess Audi...TT?

Coinage (ldwrestling80@comcast.net) MSG #590, 06-20-2009 09:19 AM
      GTI?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #591, 06-20-2009 10:27 AM
      They are VW (Monte Carlo) rims usually found on a Jetta and GTI. I saw them on Alltrbo's car and decided they would be the perfect rim for the car being that the engine came from a 2000 Jetta. Using my sources, I located a brand new set at a very reasonable price. Also used the Fiero's lug nuts and caps.
Dave


ALLTRBO MSG #592, 06-20-2009 01:02 PM
      *shameless plug*

Here's my car, but it isn't painted like this just yet ( it's red, everything else is as shown). Dave has no part in its coming appearance, but Mr. Haus Guru here is playing much more than a small part in what's coming for the rest of the car!
I have the centercaps which will have Fiero logos on them, and I also have Fiero lugnuts and lugnut caps for them.


I mostly got the wheels idea from justa6, who is probably now annoyed that his unique Fiero wheels aren't so unique anymore, heh. He says he's changing the look of his wheels though, and won't give away any details yet.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 06-20-2009).]

anonymity MSG #593, 06-21-2009 08:55 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

This is how the car looked when we showed up to pick it up. I managed to sneak a pic with the new rims on it. I snuck this pic in this thread 'cause Joey is too depressed to even look at this thread right now.
So, anyone recognize what factory car the rims are from? (and no guesses from Alltrbo, he gave us the idea for them)
Dave

OK... I'm over my depression... apparently when they said Friday... they didn't mean this past Friday.... or the Friday before that or the Friday before that, like they've been telling me.

I heard them say something about this Monday... but Dave says the amount of work they have yet to do, not to mention detailing the inside, is easily an ALL DAY PROJECT.

So, I won't be holding my breath for Monday....

Aside from being disappointed by the promised delivery date...

The car looks AWESOME!!! Well worth the wait... The rims look.... ok.

Maybe I'll let Dave post another "in progress" pic Monday... we'll see...

Joey


87_special MSG #594, 06-21-2009 04:13 PM
      Wow! This car has really come together since the last time I saw this thread. I'm not too sure on the airbrush work just yet. I'm sure it will be a really fine car though once its all back together. Good luck with it. I'm eagerly awaiting finished pics.

BTW, I have VW wheels on my Fiero also. I don't think I've ever seen another Fiero with my wheels.

-Joseph



aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #595, 06-21-2009 06:56 PM
      This hurts almost worse than waiting for naughty pics to load on dialup. *cry*

[This message has been edited by aaronkoch (edited 06-21-2009).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #596, 06-22-2009 07:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
When the car comes back, I have to reassemble the interior and maybe I'll talk Joey into a set of Mr. Mike's seats.
Dave


Or do a set of Ractive racing seats. They look pretty cool, and the microfiber (suede like) material will grip much better than leather. Otherwise you might need a 5-point belt not to slide around during your shenanigans.

http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/tuc70040.html


Or you could do a set of these Recaros (they're pricey, but it might complete the "look" of the car quite well.) (I think these seats are also used on a German spec VW Golf derrivative, as well as the German spec Audi R8, so it'll be even more Vee-Dub )


Recaro Sportster CS:





Official Recaro page: http://www.recaro.com/index...id=3732®ion=3&L=2 (although it can be had much cheaper on Flea-bay and other internet dealers)

Mr. Mikes is a great idea as well. I really like his seats.
It's just hard to get him to do Microfiber, since you have to send him the material.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #597, 06-22-2009 07:18 PM
      I removed the racing seats from my orange and black car. the Mr. Mikes seat are much more comfy.
As for the VR6 it is now tomorrow (again) and we should get it back. I'll post up some pics in the afternoon.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #598, 06-23-2009 12:55 PM
      In progress pics (as promised upon completion)







bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #599, 06-23-2009 12:57 PM
      completed teaser pics.....





bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #600, 06-23-2009 12:59 PM
      completed pics....









Tony Kania MSG #601, 06-23-2009 03:10 PM
      Holy shiznit! Look at that thing. Just incredible. Way to go you two.

And a little page ownage! Sweet!

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 06-23-2009).]

anonymity MSG #602, 06-23-2009 05:27 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Tony Kania:

Holy shiznit! Look at that thing. Just incredible. Way to go you two.

And a little page ownage! Sweet!



Thank you!!!

I am so glad to have my car back...

Now, Dave has to change the oil and finish the interior and then...

I get to travel in it...

Can't wait... only problem I have is......

Where do I go first?


Joey


ALLTRBO MSG #603, 06-23-2009 06:00 PM
      Holy cow! Somebody grab the fire extinguisher, it's another Fiero fire!!!

Only two more words...

Hell. Yes.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 06-23-2009).]

GTGeff MSG #604, 06-23-2009 07:47 PM
      MFF Summer Drive-In 2009 [Saturday June 27th ~ Minneapolis]

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/076456.html

[This message has been edited by GTGeff (edited 06-23-2009).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #605, 06-23-2009 10:04 PM
      Bump the pics to page 16 (see page 15 for more pics)










Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #606, 06-23-2009 10:43 PM
      Lookin GOOD!!! Absolutely worth the wait.


It's just like the owner...................one of a kind!

I think I need a ride in that.......................

HAGO!

[This message has been edited by Sage (edited 07-03-2009).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #607, 06-24-2009 12:49 PM
      Since this car will be driven, you're wrapping it in a 3M clear bra, right?
(keep in mind, paint stays soft for 1 month after painting, attracts rock chips easier than later.)


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #608, 06-24-2009 12:53 PM
      The car looks absolutely gorgeous!!!




aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #609, 06-25-2009 06:35 PM
      Anonymity,

Holy Carp! How tall are you? I can see at least a foot b/t the back of your seat and the firewall.. I don't think my seat's ever been anything bu all the way back against the wall, but then again, I'm 6'3" and 220lbs.. heh..


KaijuSenso MSG #610, 06-25-2009 06:53 PM
      Oh baby that is intense, bravo!

Gokart Mozart MSG #611, 06-25-2009 09:42 PM
      I'm not a fan of murals on cars for the most part but yours looks good!

Things that burn blue:
copper compounds + chlorine producer
copper acetoarsenite (Paris Green), Cu3As2O3Cu(C2H3O2)2 = blue
copper (I) chloride, CuCl = turquoise blue

Is the rest of the car just black?


anonymity MSG #612, 06-25-2009 10:19 PM
      I am a little over 5'2". Dave is 6'1" and doesn't have the seat all the way back.
The rest of the car is jet black.
Joey



Jake_Dragon MSG #613, 06-25-2009 10:27 PM
      Paint came out nice. I like my murals to have a few more curves but it looks good for a chicks car
No really it looks great I bet you get a lot more attention.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #614, 06-27-2009 10:26 AM
      Rumor has it that the VR6 Fiero was driving through Pennsyl-tucky last evening. Since getting the car back, I haven't seen much of it or Joey
She is going to Delaware today for a drive to calculate the gas mileage. We are estimating around 28-30mpg. The car is very loud. I will be upgrading the exhaust, so that we won't get pulled over for it anymore. Still using a Magnaflow, but a little quieter this time.
Dave


motoracer838 (jmartin@musicunveiled.com) MSG #615, 06-27-2009 10:52 AM
     

That's cool.

Joe


ALLTRBO MSG #616, 06-27-2009 01:00 PM
      Sweet. Cars are built to be driven, yes!

One question; Why weren't the flames extended down onto the lower sideskirts? It looks a bit uneven down there to me (but then, I do have OCD).

I really can't think of more appropriate looking wheels for that car, absolutely perfect in my eyes. What size tires did you go with, BTW?

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 06-27-2009).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #617, 06-27-2009 01:26 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ALLTRBO:

Sweet. Cars are built to be driven, yes!

One question; Why weren't the flames extended down onto the lower sideskirts? It looks a bit uneven down there to me (but then, I do have OCD).

I really can't think of more appropriate looking wheels for that car, absolutely perfect in my eyes. What size tires did you go with, BTW?



The car will be going back to the body shop for a few touch ups. The lower side skirts were already painted and cleared before the airbrushing was done. If I had known, I would have told them to sand the clear and airbrush it. The front markers are painted black, instead of the blue, so that will be getting redone. They also didn't assemble the door locks properly, so I will be redoing that part myself.
Other than that, the car is perfect. No orange peel or any imperfections in the black.
The tire size is exactly the same as yours...205/50ZR17 in the front and 235/45ZR17 in the rear.
Dave




Gokart Mozart MSG #618, 06-27-2009 01:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
...so that we won't get pulled over for it anymore...
Dave


Getting a little attention of the wrong kind?


anonymity MSG #619, 06-27-2009 02:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:


Getting a little attention of the wrong kind?


Not yet... But cops are eyeing it up... I just don't wanna deal with it...

So, I drive it easy, for the most part... Ok, we'll just say I keep the needle on the numbers... I just won't say which numbers...

Joey



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #620, 06-27-2009 02:34 PM
      Yeah, I'm the one who got pulled over for loud exhaust.
After the trip, we calculated gas mileage to be 30.9mpg and that is while having fun with the go pedal
Dave


nibotolu (rulogracia_@hotmail.com) MSG #621, 06-27-2009 07:20 PM
      what size and brand are those rims??
i really like them


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #622, 06-27-2009 10:41 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by nibotolu:

what size and brand are those rims??
i really like them


They are factory Volkswagen rims. 17x7
Dave


Dash (aalasmar@uwm.edu) MSG #623, 06-28-2009 03:27 AM
      guru that was some sick work with the motor swap man
one
TINY
thing though

that paint job...
no offense man, but i almost barfed...

back on thread though
SICK ASS WORK MAN!


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #624, 06-30-2009 06:18 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dash:

guru that was some sick work with the motor swap man
one
TINY
thing though

that paint job...
no offense man, but i almost barfed...

back on thread though
SICK ASS WORK MAN!


No offense taken. I believe Joey had added the Pegasus's to the hood to ensure that it would forever be a "chick's car" and then she would be the only one to drive it.
On Sunday, I replaced the entire exhaust to a quieter, smoother, more exotic sounding exhaust. The VR6 has one sexy exhaust note if the exhaust is tuned for the car.
Dave


Gokart Mozart MSG #625, 06-30-2009 10:51 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


No offense taken. I believe Joey had added the Pegasus's to the hood to ensure that it would forever be a "chick's car" and then she would be the only one to drive it.

Dave


Versus you driving the gay one!


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #626, 06-30-2009 12:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:


Versus you driving the gay one!


LOL. I originally was going to name her car the "Flaming gay Fiero", but I figured I'd be nice. Joey is more like one of the guys than a typical chick. Personally, I do like the paint job. It is a one of a kind. We've had mixed opinions about the artwork, but Joey's opinion is all that matters in my book.
Dave


Jake_Dragon MSG #627, 06-30-2009 04:05 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


LOL. I originally was going to name her car the "Flaming gay Fiero", but I figured I'd be nice. Joey is more like one of the guys than a typical chick. Personally, I do like the paint job. It is a one of a kind. We've had mixed opinions about the artwork, but Joey's opinion is all that matters in my book.
Dave




Wait she may not like that lets try again

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 06-30-2009).]

sabooo MSG #628, 06-30-2009 07:09 PM
      That's just funny.

TommyT913 (ttocco@optonline.net) MSG #629, 07-01-2009 10:27 AM
      I saw Joey out and about last Friday night at the Lukoil on Rt 9 and Sunnyside Dr. I don't think she recognized me as I've shaved my goatee and lost 50 lbs. Anywho, the car looks great guys, and sounds even better. Great job.

Tommy

[This message has been edited by TommyT913 (edited 07-01-2009).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #630, 07-01-2009 11:32 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TommyT913:

I saw Joey out and about last Friday night at the Lukoil on Rt 9 and Sunnyside Dr. I don't think she recognized me as I've shaved my goatee and lost 50 lbs. Anywho, the car looks great guys, and sounds even better. Great job.

Tommy



That may have been me, but I'm not certain. Since then, I have completely rodone the exhaust system from the manifolds back. It was too loud and obnoxious. Now it is smooth and exotic sounding. Tommy, you should come by the shop. My L67 has been done for some time and I've logged many thousand trouble-free miles on it.

 
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:





That is very funny!

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 07-01-2009).]

TommyT913 (ttocco@optonline.net) MSG #631, 07-01-2009 11:57 AM
      It was definitely Joey. Maybe I'll come by the shop today. I have to run down to Shore Motorsports in Toms River to pick up some clamps. You're on the way back. Maybe I'll come in my german car.... It's a german Ford but german none the less. I'm eager to get a ride in a 3800 S/C Fiero.

See you later.

Tommy


Vonov (dorsaiian@comcast.net) MSG #632, 07-02-2009 07:40 AM
      (sniff, sob) 's beautiful, you guys! Absolutely stellar work...and Joey, I REALLY like the artwork design. The car looks radical without being cheesy. Way to go, both of you.

sabooo MSG #633, 07-04-2009 01:08 PM
      The VR6 brought Joey for a visit today, and please let me tell you - you WANT a VR6 fiero. My initial impressions were that the car was quiet and refined. The swap is certainly cleanly done, but we knew that.

What I hope you get to hear one day is the exhaust note of this car under acceleration. At one point I actually just closed my eyes and listened to it. This, in my opinion, is EXACTLY what this car should sound like.

Nice job Dave & Joey!

Some pics (sorry Joey - I know it's got some road dust on it!) :











sabooo MSG #634, 07-04-2009 04:32 PM
      Grabbed a few quick vids too.







Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #635, 07-06-2009 02:52 PM
      sabooo, thanks for the pics & vids!

That engine sounds awesome. Even better than before! Very throaty, and sports car like!!

BMWguru, could you take more pics of the car (if Joey lets it stand still long enough)?
Could you also take pictures of the engine with the plastic cover removed? The engine looks too great to cover it with plastic. (or you could have the shop airbrush it really cool)
Also, take pics of the new exhaust.

(artsy shots courtesy of www.motivemag.com)
Vr6-12v engine without cover:

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This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
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Vr6-12v engine with cover:
Painted:



Unpainted:
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

The Vr-6 24v looks even better (without cover), but that's a different animal altogether.





(with custom plate)
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.



Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #636, 07-10-2009 11:23 PM
      The interesting thing about the VR 6 is that it is uses a unique cylinder spacing. The cylinders are angled ( spaced) only 10.5 to 15* apart. American engines are 60* and 90* but this one is 1/4 of the closest V6 engine cylinder spacing manufactured stateside. The other remarkable thing about this "V6" is that it uses only one cylinder head like a straight six. As such it has a straight six firing order.
All in all this is a very unusual swap that is bound to generate much controvery at every show that it appears at. It looks like it really goes well and it has looks to match. I'd like to know what its capable of in the 1/4 mile as that would be very interesting to see.



IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #637, 07-11-2009 12:27 AM
      also im pretty sure there an aluminum block,,,, 3.8 iron... the vr6 is a super light motor compared to how much power there capable of putting out.
ever think of doing a 1.8 t swap?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #638, 07-11-2009 07:27 AM
      They are a aluminum head and iron block. It is a pretty light engine. I would definitely concider swapping a 1.8t in the future, if a customer of the Haus desires.
On page one of this thread I have a pic of the VR6 with the head off to show the cylinder spacing. The engine's setup it what gives it the unique sound.
Dave


TrackMagicWS6 (trackmagicws6@embarqmail.com) MSG #639, 07-17-2009 02:49 AM
      Tell me what you think about the Mercedes OM642 engine. Would it be possible to bolt up to a VW tdi Trans?

Dennis LaGrua (dlagrua@comcast.net) MSG #640, 07-17-2009 10:54 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by TrackMagicWS6:

Tell me what you think about the Mercedes OM642 engine. Would it be possible to bolt up to a VW tdi Trans?



If the engine fits the Fiero engine compartment space; I'm sure that Dave can swap it in but knowing the amount of work that went into his car (oops her car) , you'd need a big bankroll to achieve that objective. This VR6 swap probably has 100's of hours of labor in it. IMO its not a practical swap but a custom one off creation that's a labor of love for someone who wanted something very different. Dave and Joeys VR6 Fiero is certainly a technological achievement and I doubt that we will ever see another one built like it. Now that this beautiful Fiero is finished, its time to show it off folks.



exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #641, 07-17-2009 01:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


No offense taken. I believe Joey had added the Pegasus's to the hood to ensure that it would forever be a "chick's car" and then she would be the only one to drive it.
On Sunday, I replaced the entire exhaust to a quieter, smoother, more exotic sounding exhaust. The VR6 has one sexy exhaust note if the exhaust is tuned for the car.
Dave


As chick cars go,...that is pretty bad a** !

Again i am not a mural type person, but i have to admit that is pretty darn cool. If you are going to do one,...that is the way to go !

Congrats on the swap too, that looks awesome !


ALLTRBO MSG #642, 07-18-2009 02:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
...IMO its not a practical swap but a custom one off creation that's a labor of love for someone who wanted something very different. Dave and Joeys VR6 Fiero is certainly a technological achievement and I doubt that we will ever see another one built like it...

Dave will happily do another VR6 swap for someone at Haus of Guru if someone wants one. It wouldn't take him nearly as long to do again because he has it figured out now. That makes it a very viable option for many.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #643, 07-18-2009 08:34 PM
      you really have to drive a tuned VR6...even if it is in a GTI or Jetta. In the Fiero with the VW 02J manual five speed, I shifted from second into third gear at 78MPH. It really pulls at 2500 rpms and then pulls harder at 5,000rpms, and even harder at 7,000 rpms. Finally, I shift around 7,300-7,500rpms. It kinda reminds me of Joey's horse. Just when you think she can't get any faster, she'll go.
Dave


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #644, 07-19-2009 04:35 PM
      Wish you could have made it to WestFest this year. Your car would have been a great addition to the show.
Maybe next year though..

(until then, we'll need many more pictures and videos please. )


IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #645, 07-19-2009 09:28 PM
      this is very true my brother has a t64 turbo in an 02 vr6 gti VERY VERY fast lol runs around 11's on mid boost.

IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #646, 07-19-2009 09:32 PM
      anyway how much would he charge for the basic swap if someone had the vr6 motor/trans with the wiring harness, and the fiero?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #647, 07-19-2009 10:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by IVANNATINKLE:

anyway how much would he charge for the basic swap if someone had the vr6 motor/trans with the wiring harness, and the fiero?


The wiring harness is the tough part. The VW uses a lot of seperate modules to control various functions. The ecu needs to see those modules to properly function....ie fan control module, fuel pump etc. I had to bypass them and still let the ecu think they were there and functioning normally while having another source from the Fiero control the fan and fuel pump etc.
For the 3800s/c swaps I do, I charge a base $3,500 in labor...estimated on what else we are doing to the swap, it will go up (ie camshaft, custom exhaust, show quality engine,etc)
For the VR6, I would probably charge around $10,000 for someone who has the two donor cars needed to do the swap (Fiero and MK4 Volkswagen). The parts needed from the VW are: engine, transmission, shifter, gas pedal, coolant expansion tank, clutch switch, three harnesses including battery fusebox and harness, all the hoses and engine accessories, custom axles will need to be made at approx $850-900, upgraded fuel pump....basically everything you see in the engine bay and then some. I would also prefer to build a custom intake manifold for added clearance and fabricate poly mounts. The shifter will need to be completely reworked to function out the rear, instead of the front. The shifter would also need to be shortened. Custom length shifter cables will need to be made, as well. Custom gauges will need to be installed, but I could probably pull it off with the stock gauges, but the tach on the Fiero doesn't go high enough for the VR6. When the engine is out, I would recommed replacement of the timing chains, upgrading the flywheel, and porting the exhaust manifolds to 200mm.
Dave


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #648, 07-21-2009 03:05 PM
      How about using the Vr6 dash gauges? I think it would be a headache to marry ze German technology with '80's GM dashboard technology.




Gokart Mozart MSG #649, 07-24-2009 09:55 PM
      .

[This message has been edited by Gokart Mozart (edited 07-24-2009).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #650, 08-02-2009 04:58 AM
      .

[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 08-02-2009).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #651, 08-02-2009 04:25 PM
      It would be great to swap in a 5 cyl engine into a fiero. :dreaming:.

http://www.topgear.com/us/f...en-fruit-audi-tt-rs/

Do they all sound like this, or is it the TT-RS treatment?





So now my question to you Dave, do all 5 cyl's sound like that?

Have you gotten the Vr6 Fiero to stand still long enough to make a new video and pictures of the new exhaust sound?
More pictures? (Interior, engine under cover, driving footage, exhaust system, nice pictures for desktop backgrounds?)


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #652, 08-02-2009 04:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
The cars both have race exhaust and are very loud. My V8 has Dynomax race bullets with no cats and the VR6 has about three feet of pipe with Magnaflow mufflers. I tried to convince Joey that the VR6 needs more backpressure, but she really loves the rumble-pop on deacceleration. The VR6 sounds similar to a Harley with race pipes.
For an experiment, I'll take a video in my gold GT with stock engine to see if it still pops.


Have you got a chance to figure out if it was the camera of the exhaust?


anonymity MSG #653, 08-05-2009 06:22 PM
      .

[This message has been edited by anonymity (edited 08-05-2009).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #654, 08-05-2009 06:23 PM
      Max,
The five cylinders do sound good with an aftermarket exhaust. Joey's VR6 has a much sweeter sound with the new exhaust that I installed. It is less obnoxious and deeper. I have the car all apart right now, so I should be able to get some pics that you want. The camera I have isn't very good for videos, but if I get a few minutes of "me time", I'll go down to Best Buy and pic up a new video camera.
We will be taking the VR6 to the Bluegrass Fiero meet in Kentucky next weekend. I'm certain it will be ready for the trip.
Dave


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #655, 08-08-2009 09:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

Max,
The five cylinders do sound good with an aftermarket exhaust. Joey's VR6 has a much sweeter sound with the new exhaust that I installed. It is less obnoxious and deeper. I have the car all apart right now, so I should be able to get some pics that you want. The camera I have isn't very good for videos, but if I get a few minutes of "me time", I'll go down to Best Buy and pic up a new video camera.
We will be taking the VR6 to the Bluegrass Fiero meet in Kentucky next weekend. I'm certain it will be ready for the trip.
Dave


Buy it online. Much cheaper, and better selection. If you want to save money: www.overstock.com Some modern picture cameras take pretty nice video, in case you need both.
Is the new exhaust still Magnaflow, or did you use Borla?

Can't wait to see more pictures.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #656, 08-09-2009 08:58 AM
      The exhaust is still Magnaflow. I used this muffler and turned the Porsche tips upside down...I think they look better that way. I had C2 do some fine tuning on the ecu and I should have it back tomorrow (hopefully).
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-14277/


Dash (aalasmar@uwm.edu) MSG #657, 08-22-2009 10:00 AM
      guru
im in moonachie nj
where and how far is your shop?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #658, 08-22-2009 10:11 AM
      We are located minutes off of GSP exit 88 in Lakewood. If you want to come by and see the projects, let me know and I'll make sure the VR6 is there.
The shop info is:
Autobahn Automotive
40 Chestnut St.
Lakewood, NJ 08701
732-363-5552

The Haus of Guru is my side business located in my main shop. I am currently looking to relocate my shop to a larger location. Right now I have 3000 sq ft and I need more than that. I'm hoping to relocate to Jackson or Toms River which is less than 5 miles from my current location.

Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #659, 08-22-2009 10:16 AM
      Just a quick vid taken in KY. I'll post up some cool stuff in the near future. I finally learned how to edit videos....lol





Erik (hardkandiboi@hotmail.com) MSG #660, 08-22-2009 02:12 PM
      sweet sounding car

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #661, 08-28-2009 01:52 PM
      Dave, I was wondering if this would apply to the rear mounted Torsen type LSD you now have on the Vr6
http://www.motorchili.com/v...55/Left-foot-braking

Could you, or Joey try it out on an open road and tell me what you think?


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #662, 08-28-2009 01:58 PM
      Somewhat unrelated to my above post, as this time it's used to stabilize the car rather than engage the LSD, but I figured I'll post it for completeness sake
*hint, post videos of Joey doing cool stuff with the Vr6 (on empty parking lots)*

http://www.motorchili.com/v...7--Left-Foot-Braking

http://www.motorchili.com/v...aking-heel-toe-combo


btw.: if anybody knows the name of that DVD, please PM me. I would love to add it to my collection. Skip Barber - Going faster is a great video, although a bit dated.


Eau_Rouge MSG #663, 10-07-2009 12:13 AM
      Dave, just wanted to get your thoughts on the possibility of swapping in a BMW M42 into a Fiero. I assume the wiring wouldn't be too difficult as they've been successfully swapped into older BMW's like the E21's and even the 2002's but I don't know about how difficult it would be to mount the engine in a fiero and adapt it to lets say the stock 5 speed Getrag (starter placement issue, adapter plate)

On the plus, it is a very well built and very reliable motor as my old daily driver (94 318is) has just over 400,000 km on the odomoter after I retired it from daily driving duties and just to note, the motor had never been openned up, saw only regular oil changes (full synthetic) and is still running very stong today.
I've got a lot respect for those engine's...

In your opinion, would it be worth putting into a fiero - if possible, it would definitely have to be a properly built motor for boost...love your VR6 swap by the way - very original!


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #664, 11-07-2009 03:32 AM
      Can you post more pics, or videos of the VR6?

I still haven't seen the exhaust, how you did the shifter, the dash, and other detail shots.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #665, 11-07-2009 07:50 AM
      Sorry, I've been really busy with the Haus projects.
Joey's VR6 has a good layer of dust sitting on top of it right now since she has been travelling the country driving a 18 wheeler.
I'll try to remember to take those pics for you when I'm back in the shop on Monday.
My customer's projects come first....my orange and black V8 is sitting next to her VR6 with more dust on it and the wiring harness and new fueling system for the Webers waiting to go in. I put that project on hold because I am in the middle of trying to purchase a smashed up Passat 1.8t that has low miles. The insurance company is holding the car now, so I'm dealing with them. That 1.8t would be the perfect replacement for the V8 once it is modded.
Dave


lildevil (lildv1l@aol.com) MSG #666, 11-09-2009 10:08 PM
      Whats up with all the GTOs ?


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #667, 11-10-2009 05:26 AM
      That video was taken at Blackram's house in Kentucky. I believe the GTOs are his son's and friends.
Dave


ViperBlue85GT (sputira@stx.rr.com) MSG #668, 11-12-2009 03:49 PM
      First off...Very nice!!

My Friend has a Modified VR6 out of his GTI that I was thinking about picking up.

I had a few questions I wanted to ask you first...

First off...His Motor


2001 VR6
Bored .30 over
294 Techtonic cams
High Performance intake manifold
Polished Heads
JE Pistons
All built by MJM Motorsports (a strictly European Auto shop that specializes in VR6 mods)
Motor is pushing just under 300horses (275-290)

Question 1:
How would you rate this against the 3800SC and Northstar V8 swaps?

2:
I will completely read your thread, but Was there a lot of cutting and welding? Did you have to buy or make custom parts or could you use most of the Stock and/or VW parts in the swap? Could you use the VW Tranny? In my case it would be a Eurospec 6speed.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #669, 11-12-2009 04:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ViperBlue85GT:

First off...Very nice!!

My Friend has a Modified VR6 out of his GTI that I was thinking about picking up.

I had a few questions I wanted to ask you first...

First off...His Motor


2001 VR6
Bored .30 over
294 Techtonic cams
High Performance intake manifold
Polished Heads
JE Pistons
All built by MJM Motorsports (a strictly European Auto shop that specializes in VR6 mods)
Motor is pushing just under 300horses (275-290)

Question 1:
How would you rate this against the 3800SC and Northstar V8 swaps?

2:
I will completely read your thread, but Was there a lot of cutting and welding? Did you have to buy or make custom parts or could you use most of the Stock and/or VW parts in the swap? Could you use the VW Tranny? In my case it would be a Eurospec 6speed.


I am very familiar with MJM. That is where I purchased the Peloquin LSD. I never drove a N*, but I own a 3800s/c Fiero. They are two completely different feels. The VR6 has a very high revving engine and is similiar to most European cars. The 3800 is more like a typical American muscle car. I used the VW 02J transmission and I made all the custom parts/mounts/brackets etc to make the swap function. The engine computer still thinks it is in the Jetta it came out of.
The only difference between the GTI and Fiero is there is no FWD torque steer in the Fiero.
Dave


ViperBlue85GT (sputira@stx.rr.com) MSG #670, 11-12-2009 06:46 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:


yeah, just German cars....and my Fieros. I get a lot of compliments and insults from my customers about my Fieros...as for the insults, I add 10% to their bill..j/k
Dave


I know you posted this a LONG time ago but just thought I would throw this out there...It's called a PIMA Charge (Pain In My A$$)...you can actually add that to the bill and BS people with it being some gov. tax on...(fill the blank with something in your profession)
Also, If you go somewhere and see a PIMA Charge, 1. it is NOT a Gov. Tax on anything, and 2. They don't like you


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #671, 11-17-2009 08:10 PM
      ViperBlue85GT, I'm sure BMWguru would be able to help you with the swap. It would be really cool to see more Fieros with German High Reving engines.

PM BMWg., maybe the two of you could work something out regarding swap parts. (adapters, etc.) No need to reinvent the wheel.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #672, 11-17-2009 08:36 PM
      I think a VW 1.8t (225hp) would be a cool swap. I'm leaning towards that for the Formula I recently picked up. But I told Joey I would wait a few years and see what technology brings us. The price of Jettas seemed to have drastically dropped in the past year. I had a 2002 GLS 1.8t in my shop today that was for sale for $800. The only thing that was good on the car was the engine, pcm and wiring, but that's all that is needed.
Dave


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #673, 11-18-2009 11:43 AM
      After talking to a few race car drivers, (we had a Mazdaspeed3 testing event a few months ago at Laguna Seca) my exitement for the Audi TFSI 4-banger has been rekindled.

Long story short: The consensus of a longer conversation between many race car, and test drivers was the TFSI 4-banger is one of the best examples of a Direct Injection, Turbo - 4banger transverse fwd engine.

^ Hopefully they'll come down in price soon.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #674, 05-31-2010 04:49 PM
      Here is a little spring bump to get this thread back on top.....

I was very pleased with 99% of this swap except for the shifter and the exhaust. So, today we decided to build the exhaust from scratch, making it perfect.

Before.... (a quick fab/hackjob. function, but ugly)



the materials....



After.....(flex pipe added, new Y pipe, same muffler and tips. Joey wanted the same sound but better)





ryoleous (ryoleous@hotmail.com) MSG #675, 05-31-2010 04:55 PM
      Who ever welded up that exhaust for your VR6 did a dam good job :P

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #676, 05-31-2010 04:57 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by ryoleous:

Who ever welded up that exhaust for your VR6 did a dam good job :P


Yes Ryan,
You did an excellent job on that fabrication....I will treat you to a ride in the car once the oil pan is replaced. The VR6 suffered the fabled typical oil drain plug failure. The drain plug removes the threads from the pan when changing the oil. Fortunately, oil pan replacement is about a 30 minute job on this swap.
Dave


jeffdean42 (jeffdean4233@dutchmail.com) MSG #677, 06-14-2010 02:15 AM
      whats the weight of this motor fully dressed?

how hard was it to mount in the fireo? are you using the vr6 transmission? whats the max power it hold?

what you do about fuel pump? Computer? speedo cluster?



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #678, 06-14-2010 06:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by jeffdean42:

whats the weight of this motor fully dressed?

how hard was it to mount in the fireo? are you using the vr6 transmission? whats the max power it hold?

what you do about fuel pump? Computer? speedo cluster?


I'm not sure of the engine weight, but I believe it is lighter than the Fiero 2.8.....or at least it feels lighter. I am using the VR6 transmission. There are many optional gearsets available for it. Not sure of the max power, but there are a few VR6 cars running in the 9 second range with turbo setups. The original fuel pump was a Warlbro, but I downgraded to a 'Vette pump (the same one I have in the 3800 swap). I am running the factory VR6 computer with tuning mods done to it. The cluster is a set of VDO gauges.
Dave


Gokart Mozart MSG #679, 06-14-2010 09:52 AM
      From http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1330808
2.8L VR6 motor weighs ~400lbs with manifolds, etc all attatched.

The shipping weight I have down is 520lb, which was a full swap with tranny and wiring. Trans is probably 80-100lbs as I can lift one up by myself but its a little awkward.


HausFiero MSG #680, 06-15-2010 03:26 AM
      Out of curiosity, do u make a kit for this or specific parts for it? And I'm guessin the computer and wiring was the hardest part? What had to be done to mount it?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #681, 06-15-2010 08:12 AM
      The shifter was the hardest part. I have no interest in building a kit for this.....it would make my wife's little car less special.
Dave



Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #682, 09-21-2010 03:07 AM
      Dave, could you post some updated pictures, and pictures of the interior?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #683, 09-21-2010 07:18 PM
      I don't have much to update at this time. There are recent pics in GFC in the "Fiero cruise in Northwestern NJ" thread. I've been so busy with the customer's swaps that I've been ignoring my own
Not to let out any secrets, but we will be doing two Volkswagen drivetrain swaps in the very near future....one for me and one to sell when we are completed and tested. (there will be a complete build thread in the near future)

Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-21-2010).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #684, 09-27-2010 04:24 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

(there will be a complete build thread in the near future)

Dave



http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/082918.html


datacop (datacop@gmail.com) MSG #685, 10-27-2010 02:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by sabooo:



Dave,

Flip those VW and vr6 badges around so that it's facing the "right" way will ya?

[This message has been edited by datacop (edited 10-27-2010).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #686, 12-28-2010 10:49 AM
      That is on the winter mod list for the VR6.
I'm putting away the orange and black GT for the year. This will leave my free time to making the mods that Joey and I want done on the VR6 this winter. The only mod that had been done so far is clear front turn signals. I have a list two pages long that will be done in the next four months.
Dave


m0sh_man (macantley@suddenlink.net) MSG #687, 01-16-2011 07:15 PM
      http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/084136.html

if your interested in this car bmwguru let me know, i might be able to hook you up with a salvage dealer that would purchase it for you (he'd require a $200 deposit i think) let me know if your interested.

matthew


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #688, 01-17-2011 05:29 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by m0sh_man:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/084136.html

if your interested in this car bmwguru let me know, i might be able to hook you up with a salvage dealer that would purchase it for you (he'd require a $200 deposit i think) let me know if your interested.

matthew


now is a bad time for me to buy any more Fieros. I just recently picked up the Jetta TDI off a Copart auction for our Fiero TDI swap.
Dave


raymondlee (rayleemck@yahoo.com) MSG #689, 01-29-2011 06:40 AM
      i love this thread as i am a VW nut.

also if any one is interested in doing this swap i have a spare vr6 and trans sitting on a stand



Eau_Rouge MSG #690, 01-30-2011 08:55 AM
      Dave,

In a previous post on this build you had mentioned that you were going to put audi rotors with jetta calipers on this car. Just looking into whether you've done this and how difficult it is to do. I've got the Audi TT fat five wheels on my car and would like to add the TT rotors and calipers up front if it's a doable swap. Just looking for feedback...thanks.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #691, 01-30-2011 09:07 AM
      I have the Audi TT setup still on my bench, but I am not happy with the way they fit. The bolt holes in the rotors are much larger than they should be and I'm worried that it could cause issues. I've been redrilling the corvette discs and find they fit much nicer.
When I get back into the bigger brake setup I want to work with, I'll be looking into the German calipers for their light weight and great clamping ability.
Dave


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #692, 02-02-2011 06:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by raymondlee:

i love this thread as i am a VW nut.

also if any one is interested in doing this swap i have a spare vr6 and trans sitting on a stand


I would do the swap in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, while I have access to CNC machining equipment I don't have the skillset of BMWguru to fabricate and design the parts/shifter.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #693, 11-16-2011 01:50 PM
      Here is an update for the VR6 Fiero.
The brakes desperately needed an upgrade, so I did the S-10 booster upgrade and went with my own 12" rotor/88 caliper upgrade.

Here are a few pics:

Before:



I powdercoated the caliper brackets chrome and then did two coats of translucent blue to get as close of a color match to the blue fire on the car.





The final product:





Sage (sgwfiberglass@gmail.com) MSG #694, 11-16-2011 04:54 PM
      Niiiiiiiiiice!

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #695, 12-13-2011 07:55 AM
      Could you post some interior shots?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #696, 12-17-2011 01:13 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

Could you post some interior shots?


Nothing much to post. I hope to redo the entire interior over this winter....I'm just not sure what we should do with it yet....except get the damn sunroof to stop leaking.


Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #697, 12-22-2011 03:17 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:
Nothing much to post. I hope to redo the entire interior over this winter....I'm just not sure what we should do with it yet....except get the damn sunroof to stop leaking.


Okay, then post the "before".


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #698, 12-22-2011 07:43 AM
      lol....It is all put away under the covers for the winter, but I'll see if i can sneak out to the garage and take some pics this weekend.

Marine1981 MSG #699, 05-12-2012 01:28 AM
      Well..... it's summer time now. Whats the scoop? Took me a while but I read the whole thread. Fantastic work!!

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #700, 05-12-2012 10:01 AM
      that is true....Summer is almost here and the VR6 will be coming out of the garage within the next week. We plan to take it to the Carlisle show next month, so the Zaino has been ordered and I'm going to start prepping it for the show.
Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #701, 05-14-2012 07:42 PM
      I just ordered some black suede for the headliner....I've been really wanting to do a suede headliner after the first time I drove a E39 BMW M5.

Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #702, 05-28-2012 02:19 PM
      This weekend I purchased some Zaino...I think their kit was about $175 for their kit, towels, and everything else I needed. It is mostly for high end paint jobs and their main office is in the same town as my house. I had to watch the youtube vid to get the hang of it because their polish isn't used like any other polish on the market. I learned about Zaino from my customers at the shop....the MINI owners use it a lot too.

Here is the end result of weekend 1. Washed car with Dawn dish detergent to remove the prior wax and polish. Then used the claybar kit with their recommended spray. Next, I washed the car again with the Zaino Z7. Then I applied the first coat of the Z5 polish...let it dry and wiped it clean. Then wiped it with their Z6 gloss enhancing spray. I did a second coat of the Z5 and then used the Z8 Grand Finale spray instead of the Z6.

Next weekend I plan to use the Z2 polish instead of the Z5 which is a much brighter polish and adds much more shine to it. I'll take some interior pics then as well after it is all cleaned up.

Here are a few pics from today...









Marine1981 MSG #703, 05-29-2012 11:07 PM
      Looks like a black mirror lol


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #704, 06-02-2012 02:09 PM
      it is pretty sad when my build thread turns into a month long wash and polish thread

I started early today with two coats of the Zaino Z2 high gloss polish with a coat of the Z6 spray in between and the Z8 spray after. Next week we plan to go over the car on the lift at the shop and get it checked over for the drive to Carlisle. The car will be driven and we plan to haul Michael's car in the trailer.

A few days before we drive to Carlisle, I will wash it again, polish it with another coat of the Z2 and then add the Zaino Z-CS (clear seal).

This stuff gets a bit pricey by the time you add all the polishes, applicators, towels (I've gone through about 20 towels so far), but I've never seen a product work like this.






bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #705, 04-13-2013 06:18 AM
      It looks like the VR6 will be coming back out of hibernation this weekend. I plan to upgrade the size of the gas tank this week and I also plan to take a ton of videos this Spring and Summer. The exhaust sound is too sexy to not have a few videos.
Dave



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #706, 10-17-2013 07:02 AM
      The car came out for about a day or two and went back into hiding for the Summer. I decided to take it out this week and tinker a bit with it. The programming of the throttle body (fly by wire) got a little tweaking and now the car is intense to drive. Shifting through the gears (up or down) and you swear that the car is an automatic trans. The shifts are so smooth and the throttle closes a bit slower now to keep the engine spinning with the 25 or so lbs shaved off the crankshaft. I never really realize how much I love driving this car until you spend everyday behind a 350whp 3800s/c Fiero. I thought that my s/c car was great, but driving the VR6 makes me want to sell the 3800. The VR6 is at 1/2 the horsepower, but twice the driver's car....and shockingly keeps up.

Dave



Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #707, 11-08-2013 12:02 PM
      less weight?

Can't wait for the soundclips.


rpro (rwprobst@yahoo.com) MSG #708, 11-09-2013 08:29 PM
      Bring that creation down to Daytona in March. It would be a show-stopper.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #709, 11-10-2013 07:27 AM
      The VR6 didn't get much road time this year and my GoPro never made it on the car. I have been really distracted this year. I'd love to make it to Daytona, but if everything goes according to plan, my orange Fiero with the Saab motor will be running by then.

Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #710, 05-04-2014 05:14 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

Dave, could you post some updated pictures, and pictures of the interior?


I wanted to relax this weekend, so I decided to clean up the interior a bit. Before I knew it, the entire interior was completely out of the car including the carpet and I was laying Dynamat inside. I also, made a checklist of stuff to order (Mr. Mike's seat covers), and covered the rear covering in suede to match the headliner. The dash was also removed and I plan to flock it exactly like my orange and black GT.

I absolutely enjoy driving this car and had a great time on the last cruise Pete held, but I never had the time to get the interior to look the way I wanted.

When this is complete, Speedhut custom gauges will be installed and the car should be much for comfortable inside.

Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #711, 05-17-2014 11:09 AM
      Update on the interior....

Dash was removed and the upper portion was flocked. Both A-pillars were flocked as well. The headliner was covered in suede. The B-pillars and floor trim were painted black. The rear covering on the rear firewall was covered in suede.

About 60lbs of dynamat was added to the interior under the carpeting and under the door panels.

The VDO gauges were replaced with Speedhut gauges.

The console skeleton was broken, so I fiberglassed it and sanded it back to shape and it looks like it was never touched.

All the wiring for the dash gauges was redone with a new wiring harness and I rewired the radio wiring too. The OBD-II connector was remade with new wires and I made it slightly easier to access.








I will post more pics once it has been assembled.

As for the doors. The top of the door panel was flocked and the bottom was covered in suede. The armrest was painted black. The window tracks were all cleaned and lubricated and the Dynamat was applied to the door.






I should have the interior back together tomorrow and then all I am waiting on is the seat covers from Mr Mikes, the Momo steering wheel and the Loyde floor mats to arrive.

Dave


kennn (kbrooksarchitect@cox.net) MSG #712, 05-17-2014 11:27 AM
      Dave,

How is the flocking achieved? Did you have it done or did you do it yourself? It's a nice look with the suede items. And I wonder if you're going to finish the map pockets in suede. :-)

Ken



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #713, 05-17-2014 12:35 PM
      Flocking is done with brush on glue and flock. We have an attachment to use with shop air to make it easier to apply. My head tech, Ryan (also a Fiero owner) did the flocking on both of my cars and his as well. It is very durable and is common to see on race cars. I just like the way it looks.
I won't be doing the map pockets in suede. I experimented with a few different looks including deleting the map pocket and I like the cloth gray the best because it gives the right accent and matches the carpet and door vinyl.

Check out www.flockit.com


Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 05-17-2014).]

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #714, 06-08-2014 11:46 AM
      Here are the completed interior pics. The current modifications include:

suede headliner, rear covering below window and lower portion of door panels
flocked dashboard, rally gauge cover, upper portion of door panels, and A-pillars
Speedhut gauges and updated climate control lighting (courtesy of Charlie64)
shortened shifter with new shift knob and boot
painted B pillars, floor trim and door arm rests
Momo steering wheel
All new interior swap wiring harness
loyde's custom floor mats with Fiero logo
Mr. Mike's full cloth seat covers (Joey absolutely hates non cloth seats, so we waited until Mr. Mike's made the full cloth GT style)
New window tint 5% rear, 20% sides

Here are a bunch of pics:

Factory VW shifter....modded to go as short as possible without swapping to an Audi TT style shifter. It is a little shorter than the stock Fiero one now.


Flocked A-pillars and suede headliner

















bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #715, 10-04-2014 07:32 AM
      It took me seven years to get this car exactly where I want it. I removed the rear coil overs and swapped out for Eibach lowering springs at all four corners. I added new KYB shocks and struts.
The interior is finally perfect and it feels like I'm driving a completely different car.

BUT (yes there is always a but)

It looks like I'll be doing some surgery on the engine next week. The oil pressure is dropping to 5psi at idle. I'm thinking it may be the oil pump or rod bearings that are causing this, so I ordered both and hopefully will have it done in a few hours next week and it will remedy the oil pressure issue. The fuel pump is controlled by oil pressure. When it drops below 7psi, it shuts off the fuel pump which makes it a little tricky to drive.
If that doesn't remedy the situation, I may just order a short block and move everything over. The cylinder head has a lot of work done to it, and I don't want to take that away.

Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #716, 10-10-2014 04:55 AM
      I took the oil pan off to take a look inside and decided that it was time to refresh the engine. I ordered this long block with some of their add on goodies.

http://www.spturbo.com/onli.../short-block-54.html



medic880 (androidmedic@gmail.com) MSG #717, 10-10-2014 01:41 PM
      Great job the car looks incredible.

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #718, 11-09-2014 12:59 PM
      Here is what we picked up yesterday.....Looks like I'll have a fun day of work ahead of me in the near future. Also, I met the owner of Schimmel Performance and he is a great guy to do business with. In his shop has to be the largest collection of VR6 engines and VW swaps I have ever seen.





bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #719, 11-13-2014 09:58 AM
      Found a free hour to remove the drivetrain and swap the stuff over. I wound up pulling it out the top so I could keep the cradle in and push the car outside when I needed to.



Found a cracked timing chain rail, so I ordered new timing components. The timing chain on this engine is on the flywheel side, so I'd rather spend the money now than do it again later.



I hope to have it all assembled and ready to go back in by this weekend...or so.



kennn (kbrooksarchitect@cox.net) MSG #720, 11-13-2014 11:23 AM
      Have you seen or taken apart a W-12 motor? I would love to see one of those apart similar to your V-6. Fascinating concept, the W-12, and a wondrous execution. It's likely that there may not be enough room in your car for one of those, no? :-)

Ken



bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #721, 11-13-2014 05:31 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by kennn:

Have you seen or taken apart a W-12 motor? I would love to see one of those apart similar to your V-6. Fascinating concept, the W-12, and a wondrous execution. It's likely that there may not be enough room in your car for one of those, no? :-)

Ken



I haven't worked on a W12 yet. Lots of V10's V12's W8's and other not so normal ones though. I almost went with the W8 for my orange car, but the aftermarket support and availability left a lot to be desired.

Dave


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #722, 11-16-2014 05:24 PM
      I spent a few hours this weekend and got the engine back in the car. It should be up and running after about two hours more. Probably tomorrow...

Assembling. I ported the exhaust manifolds.



Then the heat shield...



It is all bolted to the cradle and ready to go back in...



back inside...in the future I will probably add a master plug to allow a one connection electrical plug to drop the engine. Right now the intake has to come off to get at the injectors and some of the sensors.



It only took seven years to finally find the time to turn the VW logo and VR6 emblem to face the rear.



more to come.....


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #723, 07-26-2015 09:05 AM
      The new engine was completed prior to Winter. I purchased new rims and tires for it as well. No change in the design, just an exact match that was on the car. The one wheel had a blemish on it that bothered me. The old wheels and tires got moved over to my blue GT with new tires added on to them.
I took the car out for the first time this year and I really can't believe how nice it drives. I have driven more than 3 dozen different Fieros and this one handles great, the interior is so quiet (with all the added Dynamat) and the car just has that modern feel to it.

I plan on taking it out to the local cruises and events the rest of this year.

Here are the installed engine pics:









Tweeter MSG #724, 07-26-2015 02:03 PM
      Ever think about blue plug wires?

bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #725, 07-26-2015 04:48 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Tweeter:

Ever think about blue plug wires?


It would keep with the theme. Maybe in the near future, I will change them out.

Dave


IVANNATINKLE (seanmiller063@gmail.com) MSG #726, 07-30-2015 07:38 PM
      looking good as always! any chance we could get some new videos?

Patrick (mnofony@yahoo.com) MSG #727, 07-31-2015 02:54 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by IVANNATINKLE:

any chance we could get some new videos?


Yeah, make sure it includes some quality audio of you putting your foot into it under load.


bmwguru (bmwguru@optonline.net) MSG #728, 08-02-2015 04:21 AM
      Sounds like a plan. The sound of the car is absolutely the best part of this swap.

Dave