90mm Headlight Harness Schematic
Topic started by: Oreif, Date: 10-07-2008 08:09 PM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/095436.html


Oreif (kopielski1714@wowway.com) MSG #1, 10-07-2008 08:09 PM
      For those of you converting over to the 90mm Headlights that Fiero1fan is selling, Here is the schematic for the harnesses as well as some tips and notes on making them.

EDIT: Here is the information on which connectors to buy ~
The connectors are located here: http://www.rallylights.com/hella/Connectors.asp
You need to buy 4 of the HL87193 (H9 connectors)
and 2 of the CPH4CM (H4 male connectors)




High beam wires should be a minimum of 6" or longer than the low beam wires for proper distance between the lights.

Here is a close-up of the H4 male connector: (I used white wire instead of the red noted on schematic)


Here is what the H9 connectors look like:


The H9 connectors have the pins numbered.
The blue clip needs to be pushed down AFTER the pins have been inserted. Note that the pins have a thin section in the middle, This needs to be vertically aligned so the blue clip can lock them in.
Make sure the wire seals and the black cover are on the wires BEFORE inserting pins.

Here are some more pics:

H9 pin numbers (Notice the pin in position one is vertically in)


Blue clip "up"


Blue clip "down"


Pin with seal. (I personally crimp then solder the pins, This pics was taken of a harness someone else built and I reworked it for a member)


Connector before cover is clipped on.



You can sleeve them with the plastic 3/8" corrigated split sleeving and mark which connector is low and high beam.



Any questions just drop me a PM.



Macs86GT MSG #2, 10-07-2008 10:30 PM
      thanks orief, that makes it a lot easier to figure out.

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #3, 10-08-2008 01:24 AM
      Will probably be a long time before/if I do this, but how about Xenon HID wiring?

IIRC, HID's don't like to be switched off and on quickly, so many cars leave the low beam HID's on all the time, even when running high beams. (please correct me if I'm wrong.) At least when using the High beam "flasher" the HID's don't turn off.

This is for the legal Hella HID 90mm capsules.

How would that be wired differently?



Oreif (kopielski1714@wowway.com) MSG #4, 10-08-2008 07:48 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

Will probably be a long time before/if I do this, but how about Xenon HID wiring?

IIRC, HID's don't like to be switched off and on quickly, so many cars leave the low beam HID's on all the time, even when running high beams. (please correct me if I'm wrong.) At least when using the High beam "flasher" the HID's don't turn off.

This is for the legal Hella HID 90mm capsules.

How would that be wired differently?



Actually some HID's like the Hella 90mm's don't really have a "high beam" lamp. There is a shield inside the bulb that blocks some of the light and the shield is raised up when "high beam" is activated. On our BMW the "high" beam lamp was not HID and was only for the "flash" feature. The HID lamp had the shield in it and raised for constant high beam.

Here is a quote from Rallylights website:
The Bi-Xenon provides both high and Low beams in an HID Xenon lamp. This is accomplished by a shield which creates a Low Beam cutoff and retracts for High beam.


I do not know what is required to wire the HID. I haven't seen one in person. The H9 90mm lights actually do an excellent job of lighting up the road alot better than the H4 bulbs.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 10-08-2008).]

whodeanie (dean@glassworksga.com) MSG #5, 10-08-2008 08:24 AM
      Thank you verry much for this it will make things a lot easyer and faster.


Marvin McInnis MSG #6, 10-08-2008 09:43 AM
      Oreif -- Thanks for posting the information on your adapter harness for the Hella 90mm modules. You've done it right, and I'm sure it will help a lot of people here. Just two things to add: 1) Depressing the blue tab on the H9 connectors is a more-or-less permanent final step. Don't do it until both terminals are inserted. 2) Don't test-install the outer housing before the blue tab is depressed. If you do, you will probably shear off the blue tab. (Been there, done that.)


 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

... how about Xenon HID wiring? This is for the legal Hella HID 90mm capsules. How would that be wired differently?



See my earlier post here. All you need is to add one jumper to the Fiero headlight wiring to keep the HID low beams on when the high beams are selected. After startup, the HID headlights draw only about 35 watts each, which is actually less than the stock Fiero sealed beam headlights.


 
quote
Originally posted by Oreif:

Actually some HID's like the Hella 90mm's don't really have a "high beam" lamp. There is a shield inside the bulb that blocks some of the light and the shield is raised up when "high beam" is activated.



Clarification: The Hella 90mm HID modules with the same form factor as the halogen modules are not Bi-Xenon. They are low-beam-only assemblies just like the H9 halogen low beam version of the 90mm modules. The HID version of the low beam module is similar, but 3/4 inch longer at the rear:





Hella does indeed make 90mm Bi-Xenon headlight modules, but they are not mechanically interchangeable with the halogen modules. The Susquehanna Motor Sports web site doesn't make that clear:





Previously posted on PFF -- Beam pattern of the HID version of the 90mm low-beam-only module:





FWIW, the Hella 90mm HID low beam modules are 3/4 inch longer than the H9 halogen version,which is slightly too long to fit the Fiero without modifications (i.e. adding a bulge) to the headlight doors when using Timo's buckets.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 12-08-2010).]

Oreif (kopielski1714@wowway.com) MSG #7, 10-08-2008 12:07 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Marvin McInnis:

1) Depressing the blue tab on the H9 connectors is a more-or-less permanent final step. Don't do it until both terminals are inserted.


Actually, it's not "permanent". You can pull them back up with a dental pick and tweezers. It's not hard to do. (One of the mistakes I made making the my original ones) But yes, It is better to make sure both pins are inserted first.
Another thing is a small flat blade screw driver or dental pick works well for holding the blue lock up while you are inserting the pins. The blue lock can be accidently pushed down during insertion of the pins.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 10-08-2008).]

Oreif (kopielski1714@wowway.com) MSG #8, 10-08-2008 12:44 PM
      I edited the first post to include a link to Susquehanna Motor Sports web site connector page as well as the part numbers and quantities of the connectors required.

McNasty (scm0300@mail.widener.edu) MSG #9, 10-08-2008 04:23 PM
      thanks for the info.
what is the appropriate length for the low beam if you remember?
i am guessing this is using 10 gauge wire
thanks again,
SHAwn

[This message has been edited by McNasty (edited 10-08-2008).]

Oreif (kopielski1714@wowway.com) MSG #10, 10-08-2008 04:50 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by McNasty:

thanks for the info.
what is the appropriate length for the low beam if you remember?
i am guessing this is using 10 gauge wire
thanks again,
SHAwn



I made mine with 8" for the low beam wire length and 14" for the high beam wire length. This puts the H4 connection under the headlight housing so it looks stock. Also it allows some slack for when the lights move up and down they don't put tension/stress on the wires or connectors.

Yes I used 10 awg wire.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 10-08-2008).]

Marvin McInnis MSG #11, 10-08-2008 09:04 PM
      The stock Fiero headlight wiring is the metric equivalent of 16 AWG, so anything 16 gauge or heavier (i.e. smaller gauge number) should be fine. FWIW, 10 AWG wire is approximately four times as big as (i.e. 4 times the area of) 16 AWG. The only significant disadvantage to using 10 gauge wire, though, is that it's a lot stiffer than the lighter gauges.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 10-08-2008).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #12, 10-08-2008 10:07 PM
      Wait. I'm confused now.

I thought that the 90mm Hella module is strictly low beam.
For high beam another 90mm Hella module would be needed. (HID, or normal projector type) Personally I think HID for brights is overkill. HID lows are so great that the brights are only used as "flashers" for passing or to give signals to other drivers on the road.



Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #13, 10-08-2008 10:11 PM
      So the low beam and/or the bi-xenon (the ones that switch with a flap) won't work on the Fiero anyways?
bummer.


Oreif (kopielski1714@wowway.com) MSG #14, 10-09-2008 07:41 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

Wait. I'm confused now.

I thought that the 90mm Hella module is strictly low beam.
For high beam another 90mm Hella module would be needed. (HID, or normal projector type) Personally I think HID for brights is overkill. HID lows are so great that the brights are only used as "flashers" for passing or to give signals to other drivers on the road.


The 90mm lamps that use the H9 bulb are two different lamps. Low beam has the projector style lens and the high beam has the clear lens. Both bulbs are the H9 65W but the projector lens focuses the beam so it is used as a low beam.
http://www.rallylights.com/...ges/90mm%20Front.jpg

The stock dual filament headlamps are 35W for low beam and 55W for high beam.

There are 2 styles of HID. The 90mm that has the same case style as the non-HID (the HID high beam bulb has a "city light" bulb for the "flash" feature)
and the bi-xenon which is low and high beam (the moveable shield)

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 10-17-2008).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #15, 10-18-2008 02:37 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Oreif:

There are 2 styles of HID. The 90mm that has the same case style as the non-HID (the HID high beam bulb has a "city light" bulb for the "flash" feature)



So just to clarify.
There is a HID 90mm low beam module, and then a HID 90mm high beam module. The high beam module contains a "city light", which IIRC is a off-center 5 watt bulb. Correct?


Marvin McInnis MSG #16, 10-18-2008 11:50 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

So just to clarify ...



One more time ... Hella makes several 90mm headlight modules that will fit Timo's buckets; in the U.S. they are available from Susquehanna Motor Sports:

HL68137 -- H9 halogen projector low beam (DOT compliant)
HL68136 -- H9 halogen high beam (DOT compliant)

HL68139H -- D1S/D2S HID projector low beam (both DOT and ECE compliant, but will not fit the Fiero without modifications to the headlight doors)

PL 1BL 008 193-007 -- H7 halogen projector low beam (ECE compliant ... special order from SMS)
PL 1KO 008 191-007 -- H7 halogen high beam with city light (ECE compliant ... special order from SMS)

To be street legal, headlights generally must comply with the following regulatory standards:

U.S. -- DOT
Canada -- Either DOT or ECE
Europe -- ECE

Reminder: It is not legal (at least in the U.S.) to install a HID capsule in a halogen housing. Changing the bulb style or wattage generally voids the regulatory compliance of any headlamp assembly.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 10-18-2008).]

Austrian Import (maximilian_ledworowski@csumb.edu) MSG #17, 10-18-2008 03:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Marvin McInnis:
HL68139H -- D1S/D2S HID projector low beam (both DOT and ECE compliant, but will not fit the Fiero without modifications to the headlight doors)


Thanks.

How big is the modification to the headlight doors? Is it visible from the outside?


Marvin McInnis MSG #18, 10-18-2008 03:37 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:

How big is the modification to the headlight doors? Is it visible from the outside?



Major surgery is required, and yes, it will be visible. The 90mm HID modules are about 3/4 inch longer (all at the rear) than the H9 halogen version, so you have to create a bulge in each headlight door to clear the connector end of the D1S/D2S HID capsules. I don't yet know whether it's even possible, but I think it will be. How it will look is another matter. This experiment will be one of my winter projects.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 10-18-2008).]

Samohtneas (seanthomas@tampabay.rr.com) MSG #19, 10-19-2008 06:48 PM
      Maybe an admin can delete this post? I feel rather stupid for even asking the question now!

[This message has been edited by Samohtneas (edited 10-19-2008).]

theogre MSG #20, 10-19-2008 08:13 PM
      Correction: 6054, the standard lamp for Fiero, is typically 55w Low beam and 65w High beam. It always has been.

FMVSS 571.108 is the relevant U.S. Federal standard if anyone wants to read it. Most of it isn't hard to understand. It's online...
http://www.access.gpo.gov/n..._00/49cfr571_00.html

Using DOT compliant parts doesn't guarantee that the finished installation is street legal but it's a far safer bet than using Driving/Fog lamps like some have done. Even if it's not technically legal, the proper installation of DOT compliant parts is less likely to blind the hell out of everyone in front of you.



Oreif (kopielski1714@wowway.com) MSG #21, 10-19-2008 10:36 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Correction: 6054, the standard lamp for Fiero, is typically 55w Low beam and 65w High beam. It always has been.



No, The standard H6054 is 35W for low beam.
http://www.donsbulbs.com/cg...70206/h6054~usa.html


Here is the AC Delco spec: (also 35w low beam)
http://www.donsbulbs.com/cg...6054~ac%7cdelco.html

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 10-19-2008).]

Oreif (kopielski1714@wowway.com) MSG #22, 11-19-2008 07:43 AM
      Bump for the folks who just bought more buckets in a group buy.

Xanth MSG #23, 11-19-2008 05:06 PM
      For some reason I hadn't already given you a plus, so you have one now

Fiero1Fan (fiero1fan@fieros.eu) MSG #24, 01-02-2009 05:13 AM
      A bump for those who can use the info.

The_Ikon MSG #25, 01-05-2009 12:34 AM
      Thanks for the tip!!!

timgray (timgray.geo@yahoo.com) MSG #26, 08-01-2009 03:36 PM
      Is the wire 16AWG or 18AWG?


BlackThunderGT MSG #27, 03-28-2010 02:58 PM
      Bump...

hairballrm (rmeyner@projectorretrofit.com) MSG #28, 12-08-2010 01:02 AM
      Bump for informative thread revival!



Kento (kento@triad.rr.com) MSG #29, 02-16-2011 10:33 AM
      bump so i can favorite this

hairballrm (rmeyner@projectorretrofit.com) MSG #30, 03-29-2011 07:12 PM
      Bump for the month



DLCLK87GT MSG #31, 05-04-2011 12:18 PM
      bump for a great thread and a question. What if you want to run power directly from the battery (front mounted) to the lights? I'll be upgrading the lows to HID

 
quote
Originally posted by Oreif:

[This message has been edited by DLCLK87GT (edited 05-04-2011).]

Marvin McInnis MSG #32, 05-04-2011 12:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DLCLK87GT:

What if you want to run power directly from the battery (front mounted) to the lights?



In that case you need to add two relays, one for the high beams and one for the low beams.


DLCLK87GT MSG #33, 05-04-2011 12:30 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Marvin McInnis:
In that case you need to add two relays, one for the high beams and one for the low beams.


ummmm relay? What relay? I didn't see anything about a relay. Sorry, probably a dumb question but i'm not the best at auto electrical stuff.

...edit to add i'm at work. might make more sense if i was looking at the car.

[This message has been edited by DLCLK87GT (edited 05-04-2011).]

02greens10 (greens10@hughes.net) MSG #34, 05-04-2011 02:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DLCLK87GT:


ummmm relay? What relay? I didn't see anything about a relay. Sorry, probably a dumb question but i'm not the best at auto electrical stuff.

...edit to add i'm at work. might make more sense if i was looking at the car.



The relay in that application takes power from the battery and puts it too the headlights, only issue is how do you operate it from inside with the headlight switch. That's what a relay does. When you turn on the switch it tells the relay to open/close and then your line from the battery is feeding the headlights and not the switch.


hairballrm (rmeyner@projectorretrofit.com) MSG #35, 05-04-2011 02:44 PM
      I am very fond of these Hella 87429 SPDT relays







They fit into these HL87123 Mini Relay Base that dovetail together.
I have used the normally closed contacts to add a third relay for fog lamps with a high beam interconnect.
(turns your fogs off when you bright up)



hairballrm (rmeyner@projectorretrofit.com) MSG #36, 05-04-2011 03:18 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by DLCLK87GT:

ummmm relay? What relay? I didn't see anything about a relay. Sorry, probably a dumb question but i'm not the best at auto electrical stuff.



Don't worry, this is DC. Just follow the path.
Use your stock wiring to "signal" the relays to turn your lights on.
Take the hot wire from your low beams and land it on pin85 on the first relay.
Take the hot wire from your high beams and land it on pin85 on the second relay.
Take pin86 (kinda looks like the number88 in the picture) to ground.
Take a hot wire from the positive side of your battery through a fuse and land it on pin30.
Run two interdependent feeders like this, one for high and the other for low.
That way, should you ever blow one fuse, you will still have light.
Pin 87 is your "normally open" contact.
Take pin 87 on the first relay and take it to your lows.
Pin87 on the second relay goes to your highs.
Ground all bulbs at the bucket and you are done.

Here is where the fun begins.
You can install a jumper with a diode between pin85 on both relays.
This will give you full time low beams.



DLCLK87GT MSG #37, 05-04-2011 03:32 PM
      Yup, i know what a relay does, just thought i missed something in this thread (even read it again )
Thanks Hairballrm, that helps out alot! + for you. I'll probably want low on always with the HID's, so you just jump both 85's with a diode in the middle? What size diode do you use?


hairballrm (rmeyner@projectorretrofit.com) MSG #38, 05-05-2011 03:05 AM
      I gotta ask the engineer and he just moved to Idaho.



DLCLK87GT MSG #39, 05-05-2011 11:38 AM
      why a diode and not a fuse? I assume that it's more about switching than protecting....but again, no expert in auto electrical systems.

hairballrm (rmeyner@projectorretrofit.com) MSG #40, 05-05-2011 12:03 PM
      Don't worry, I aint no durn expert niether

Current load on the solenoid side of the relay is 100-200ma.
We use a generic in400x (in4004) diode purchased from radioshack.

a diode only allows current to flow in one direction.
The diode jumper between the high and low beam signal wires allows current to keep flowing to the low beam relay even after you hit the bright switch on you column.
There is a mark on it and it must be in the proper orientation.
If you put it in backwards, your brights will stay on all the time and you lows will go out.
Try explaining that one to Johnny Lawman



DLCLK87GT MSG #41, 11-03-2011 01:00 PM
      bump for a great thread and to add to my favorites

Ooooo my first ownage of a page! Do i win something!

[This message has been edited by DLCLK87GT (edited 11-03-2011).]

DLCLK87GT MSG #42, 12-19-2012 10:39 AM
      another BUMP of a great thread.

Also; if any of you electrical gurus out there could post up a schematic and parts list that would work for front mounted battery and Low on all the time (flash to pass) I’m sure many would appreciate it. Myself included. I'd give it a shot but don't want to post a guesstamate.

[This message has been edited by DLCLK87GT (edited 12-19-2012).]

Ridgelandbaseball (pwammons@oh.rr.com) MSG #43, 08-04-2014 12:28 AM
      Bumping this thread. Using diagram from Oreif to make my own harness.