LS4 / F40 puts down 382 whp!
Topic started by: fieroguru, Date: 07-06-2013 02:49 PM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/092251.html


fieroguru MSG #1, 07-06-2013 02:49 PM
      Put the car on a DynoJet Dyno today!

Improvements vs. the Ramjet SBC/Getrag:
100 more hp
100+ lbs less (2807 total car weight vs. 2960)
7 mpg better on the interstate - 29 mpg @ 70-75 in V8 mode
And the power band of a DOHC engine!

Yeah, I am pretty pleased with this swap!

382 wph @ about 6600 rpm


List of mods:
5.3L LS4 - stock heads and lower end
224/232 New Era DoD camshaft with pushrods/springs
Stock LS2 intake, injectors, Throttle body
Stock LS7 MAF and exhaust manifolds
4" cold air intake
Magnaflow 3" in dual 2.5 out exhaust



JamesCurtis (jamie.curtis.04@gmail.com) MSG #2, 07-06-2013 03:13 PM
      That's a good looking torque curve!

fieroguru MSG #3, 07-06-2013 03:22 PM
      Here is the video... don't worry about the smoke at the end, it was some rain water that fell onto the exhaust.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 07-06-2013).]

Formula MSG #4, 07-06-2013 03:26 PM
      awesome! I bet that is a blast to drive

LFiero67 (slowfiero@yahoo.ca) MSG #5, 07-06-2013 04:54 PM
      Sounds good. Bet it's a pile of fun.

darkhorizon MSG #6, 07-06-2013 05:12 PM
      430+hp out of a LS4? Pretty decent.

aaronkoch (cheddarlump@cheddarlump.net) MSG #7, 07-06-2013 05:59 PM
      More impressive than the power is the consistency.. It's almost hard to tell the 3 pulls apart on the graph. Nice!



Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #8, 07-06-2013 06:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by aaronkoch:

More impressive than the power is the consistency.. It's almost hard to tell the 3 pulls apart on the graph. Nice!



I was thinking the same thing,

Good show, Paul! I'll bet that thing is a riot to drive.


BV MotorSports (sbvincent@yahoo.com) MSG #9, 07-06-2013 06:36 PM
      Very nice!!!! Edit to add.... MM's are IMO the best looking wheels on a Fiero.

I was all set to order the New Era DOD cam for my G8 before my stupid L67 knocking. *sigh*

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 07-06-2013).]

skuzzbomer MSG #10, 07-06-2013 07:00 PM
      Wow.... wish I could've gone for a ride along at the 30th. Looks fantastic and it pulls.

Very well done, sir.


nitroheadz28 MSG #11, 07-06-2013 07:03 PM
      That is pretty amazing! Now slap a turbo on it

IIRC the 4.8 and 5.3 truck LS engines that can stand up to high boost are Vortecs and are iron with beefier internals right? I think the LS4 is all aluminum?


fieroguru MSG #12, 07-06-2013 07:04 PM
      Thanks guys!

It has been a long road to get this swap done and verified without knowing if I would be happy with it... At this point I am quite happy! It is a blast to drive. Wheel spin in 1st or 2nd is just a throttle push away, 3rd gear WOT runs are lots of fun! The flat toque curve and linear power curve is easy to control and quite predictable and 6th gear helps keep the combo fuel efficient on the interstate.

Just goes to show that GM went to a lot of trouble to choke the LS4 into obscurity. Throw the LS4 specific parts in the trash and keep the long block. Build it like any other LS based engine and then it really starts to come alive.

Now I need to get it to a drag strip to see what kind of times it is capable of. My only concern is the speed of shifting the F40. So far the F40 isn't the quickest shifting transmission I have driven, but I also haven't been forceful to it either.


fieroguru MSG #13, 07-06-2013 07:19 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by BV MotorSports:

Very nice!!!! Edit to add.... MM's are IMO the best looking wheels on a Fiero.

I was all set to order the New Era DOD cam for my G8 before my stupid L67 knocking. *sigh*



Thanks! I love the MM's as well, just wish I could get a matching rear wheel in 18's.

I wouldn't recommend the New Era High Lift DoD camshaft, go custom with Pat G or someone else. I degree'd it installed dot to dot and was shocked at the timing of the valve events. When I emailed them, they blew me off and told me to install it dot to dot. So then I compared the valve events with other 224 camshafts for the LS based engines and modified the timing gear to install mine to have similar events. You wouldn't believe how far I advanced it... and it still peaks at 6600 rpm.



BV MotorSports (sbvincent@yahoo.com) MSG #14, 07-06-2013 07:45 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


Thanks! I love the MM's as well, just wish I could get a matching rear wheel in 18's.

I wouldn't recommend the New Era High Lift DoD camshaft, go custom with Pat G or someone else. I degree'd it installed dot to dot and was shocked at the timing of the valve events. When I emailed them, they blew me off and told me to install it dot to dot. So then I compared the valve events with other 224 camshafts for the LS based engines and modified the timing gear to install mine to have similar events. You wouldn't believe how far I advanced it... and it still peaks at 6600 rpm.


Really? How interesting. I wanted to go DOD delete untill I found out you basically have to strip the L76 down to a shortblock. Screw that! I PM'd Pat G on the G8 board but he charges a fee just to help pick a cam. Must be nice to charge for advice.


AkursedX (akursedx@aol.com) MSG #15, 07-06-2013 08:01 PM
      Great numbers Fieroguru! You certainly earned that type of result.

That power-curve is phenominal!



Tom Slick (tom.slick@northtexasfieroclub.org) MSG #16, 07-06-2013 11:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by skuzzbomer:

Wow.... wish I could've gone for a ride along at the 30th. Looks fantastic and it pulls.

Very well done, sir.


me too...


Bloozberry MSG #17, 07-07-2013 08:11 AM
      Congrats Fieroguru! Those are some really impressive stats. A great conclusion for an awesome build.

Maybe I missed it, but how have you found the clamping force and behavior of the clutch? Is it either on or off? Can you feather it easily? Does it slip at all in any torque range?


fieroguru MSG #18, 07-07-2013 09:05 AM
      Thanks for the compliments guys!

 
quote
Originally posted by Tom Slick:
me too...


Sorry. I looked for you for about an hour between 4-5pm on Saturday, but couldn't find you and my wife was on me to meet her, the daughters, and my sister's family for dinner. I had to leave shortly after getting the car weighed. If you can make it to the LS Fest in Bowling Green in Sept, then I can take you for a spin and ride in yours as well. Sara and the girls are not planning to go with me to that show, so I will have a lot less time commitments for family stuff while at the show.

 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:
Maybe I missed it, but how have you found the clamping force and behavior of the clutch? Is it either on or off? Can you feather it easily? Does it slip at all in any torque range?


The clutch holds WOT w/o issue. Its rated for 500 lb-ft and my combo is probably in the 380 - 400 ft-lb at the flywheel. Drivability is very close to stock where you can slip the clutch w/o chattering at take off and it has a nice linear rate of grip until full grip is obtained. I think the clutch is key to this combo being streetable since there is little off idle torque and the 12 lb flywheel doesn't provide much inertia to get the car rolling before stalling the engine. The low 1st gear in the F40 helps as well. Had I used a clutch with more of an on-off nature, I am sure stop/go traffic would be a huge hassle to get the car to launch w/o stalling while not looking like a 16 year old driving a stick for the first time.

The only downside is I suspect the 10" clutch with its higher MOI is the cause for the perceived slowness of the shifts. The syncros have to work harder to bring down the input shaft RPM's with the larger clutch, so this might limit the 1/4 mile ET performance. However, I would rather have better drivability at the expense of 1/4 ET, especially when the nearest 1/4 mile track is 2 hrs away.


LoW_KeY MSG #19, 07-07-2013 11:19 AM
      Nice!! Love to get that hp at the wheels...



dratts (dratts2@gmail.com) MSG #20, 07-07-2013 11:27 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by nitroheadz28:

That is pretty amazing! Now slap a turbo on it

IIRC the 4.8 and 5.3 truck LS engines that can stand up to high boost are Vortecs and are iron with beefier internals right? I think the LS4 is all aluminum?


No need for a turbo on that engine. That much hp is so much more than adequate. Mine is a bone stock ls4 and it handles the turbo just fine, but I have just about twice as much hp as I need. Congratulations on the build. Took a long time, but I can practically taste your satisfaction. Another well done from me. I've been totally impressed with your work right from the start.


MulletproofMonk MSG #21, 07-07-2013 11:27 AM
      Sweet moogly-googly... Nice! I better send this to Matt...



Rare87GT (rare88@cox.net) MSG #22, 07-07-2013 04:03 PM
      Sweet swap! I am a little biased towards the wheels


Nice numbers, looks like a lot of fun to drive!



qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #23, 07-07-2013 05:47 PM
      Paul, Great video. Sorry I missed you at the 30th, but I did get to see your car. I took a few pics, I love the look. No wires, no junk, everything hidden away. I plan to take another spin at my engine bay after seeing yours. I see you mentioned the LS Fest, that is my new goal, to make it to the fest.

Cheers.

Rob


Dogcreek (dogcreek60@comcast.net) MSG #24, 07-07-2013 11:50 PM
      Dang... Drool....

Jeff



Sourmug MSG #25, 07-08-2013 02:57 AM
      Congratulations!

California Kid MSG #26, 07-08-2013 08:46 AM
      Congrats ! Great combination of parts that helps affordability at that power level.

robiwon1 MSG #27, 07-08-2013 11:30 AM
      Having seen and heard this beast in my own driveway, I have to say it's freaken awesome! The sound of it coming down the street is fantastic. Paul, did you ever get a passenger seat in it?

Jims88 MSG #28, 07-08-2013 09:25 PM
      WOW!!

After watching that Dyno pull two words come to mind.

SCARY FAST!

Congratulations fieroguru!


Pete Matos MSG #29, 07-08-2013 10:02 PM
      Ya know that has got to be one of the best swaps going as far as power to complexity and just all around drivability. I mean looking at those curves in the dyno chart you have one quick and torquey powertrain going there. Must be a freakin' blast to drive. Sure there may be faster Fiero's here but that torque comes on quick and stays up there all the way to redline it seems. Just gobs of juicy fat torque and I can just imagine the huge cheshire grin it must put on your face when you leave the light in that little beastie. I am going with the 3800 in my car mostly due to cost and simplicity of installation but that is just a freaking lovely motor and it looks great under the hood too... You did a fine job as usual man. Peace

Pete



blakeinspace (blakeinspace@yahoo.com) MSG #30, 07-09-2013 10:19 AM
      wow Paul... that is much more impressive than Tom Slick's...

haha... lol at my dig at Tom. Hang head in shame at my tired stock 2.8...

very cool... nice meeting you and your family at the 30th. Next time drag Ron along wouldya?

--blake
mohawk guy with the ? mark goatee...


fieroguru MSG #31, 07-09-2013 06:15 PM
      Thanks for the compliments guys! This definitely is the most fun engine swap I have done or driven (3.4pr, 3.4TDC, 3800SC, 4.3, 4.9 and a few SBC's). Its power band is most similar to the 3.4TDC, just with twice the hp, and the hp builds twice as fast.

Probably won't do much else to the car this summer except drive it and try to break it!
I have a couple of other fiero related projects that will become my primary focus for the balance of the summer.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 07-09-2013).]

iluvsd619 (luv6192000@yahoo.com) MSG #32, 07-10-2013 05:12 PM
      Wow! I can't wait to get mine installed! Great work! Also great documentation on the project and sharing with the rest of us.

FieroGTguy (fierogtguy@aol.com) MSG #33, 07-12-2013 01:04 AM
      Glad your swap went as expected. I've been in a tweaking loop about to add a beefed up tranny.

Greg



Xyster MSG #34, 07-12-2013 01:36 AM
      Congrats on an amazing build!

 
quote
Originally posted by dratts:

No need for a turbo on that engine.


Couldn't agree more.