Finally a member of the 1988 GT club
Topic started by: qwikgta, Date: 04-22-2012 12:51 PM
Original thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089035.html


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #1, 04-22-2012 12:51 PM
      05-18-15. Sold. On to the next adventure.

10-3-12 - Started my build thread. At first I was not sure what I was going to do with this car, and for a long time it just sat in my driveway. Anyway, this thread is now my build thread. I have not modified it so it starts out slow, but I didn't want to create a new thread, so I am just going to use this one. I will continue to update this thread from time to time.


4-22-12 - Picked up a rough 88 GT yesterday. Could not beat the price. The car left the factory as a fully loaded black GT w/ beechwood interior. Now it has an 87 GT gray interior (most of it), and is missing a few of the factory options. It was being used as a parts car by the last owner to fix up his 87 GT. So it is missing a few things, but I have most of the stuff I need to put it back together. Using some of the parts I have hoarded over the years is finally going to pay off.

Since these photos, she got a complete clean both inside and out. I fixed a small "dime" size rust hole in the trunk, and replaced anything that was broken or missing with what I have in my "parts bin". Rims are off the same 87 GT that got the interior. The only part of the beechwood the PO did not remove was the beechwood subwoofer control, so its still in place. I connected a battery to the car to move the windows up/down and tried the stereo and the factory sub still works. Two speakers were blown or not connected.

I have all the motor parts to put it back together, but from the looks of the cylinder walls, I may just junk the block and sell the intake parts. I'm calling the fix-up "project cheap-skate", i'm going to try to use all the extra parts I have in the garage, and anything yet to be replaced off my 88 coupe. I will need some things I don't have but that's where I hope to barter / swap with folks for things. Anyway, i'm super excited about my new project and wanted to share with my Fiero Friends.











Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 09-18-2015).]

Sourmug MSG #2, 04-22-2012 12:58 PM
      Cool!

How long until you swap the engine


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #3, 04-22-2012 01:21 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Sourmug:

Cool!

How long until you swap the engine


well in keeping with the "cheap" theme, I have a line on a rebuilt 88 2.8L that I can have for free, all i need to do is help pull it.

As for the motor in the car, other than having the intake/heads pulled apart, its all there. The 5 speed is still connected and has fluid, the exhaust is still connected up, all the wiring is in place, just disconnected. The A/C and Alt are still connected with the belts on.

But if I was to swap the motor, I may just drop in a 3800 non SC motor. They are a dime a dozen up at Pick n Pull, dirt cheap and 200hp is good enough for a daily driver. I'd just pull he lowest mileage/best looking/cleanest one.

Rob


FieroMaster88 (fast88fiero@yahoo.com) MSG #4, 04-22-2012 01:51 PM
      Nice car. I want to find a deal like that.



mattwa (mattwa.inc@gmail.com) MSG #5, 04-22-2012 01:54 PM
      Cool project! If you really wanted "cheap", then just another 2.8 would be best, as even an 3800 N/A swap isn't exactly cheap, having to make an exhaust, fuel lines, wiring, mounts, etc. A 3800 N/A is definitely not slow though with a 5-speed (might seem that way compared to an LS3, but still), and has lots of room in the engine bay, so it's easy to reach/work on things. (hope you don't mind me posting a picture of my swap here)

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-22-2012).]

Pete Matos MSG #6, 04-22-2012 01:59 PM
      Congrats qwk... Take good care of that nice car and get it back to looking new okay!! Is this one gonna be Olive drab green too? Hehe peace

Pete



qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #7, 04-22-2012 03:02 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:

Cool project! If you really wanted "cheap", then just another 2.8 would be best, as even an 3800 N/A swap isn't exactly cheap, having to make an exhaust, fuel lines, wiring, mounts, etc. A 3800 N/A is definitely not slow though with a 5-speed (might seem that way compared to an LS3, but still), and has lots of room in the engine bay, so it's easy to reach/work on things. (hope you don't mind me posting a picture of my swap here)





Heck no, I love pics. The more the better. And, yea I realize that it may not cost that much less to do a SC motor. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. If I do swap out for a bigger motor, I won't have to spend the big bucks on it, and my goal will to make it look factory. This is not going to be a show car, i want to make it a daily driver.

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 04-22-2012).]

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #8, 04-22-2012 03:04 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Pete Matos:

Congrats qwk... Take good care of that nice car and get it back to looking new okay!! Is this one gonna be Olive drab green too? Hehe peace

Pete


Thanks. no green on this one. I have two colors that im thinking about doing the green one in, so now I can do both colors and not have to chose.

rob


Pete Matos MSG #9, 04-22-2012 03:11 PM
      Hehe so the green car will be repainted then? Looking forward to seeing what these cars look like when finished. My vote is for a 3800 turbo of course but hey that's just me. Good luck either way and again congrats on the new acquisition. Peace

Pete



dobey MSG #10, 04-22-2012 03:12 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:
Thanks. no green on this one. I have two colors that im thinking about doing the green one in, so now I can do both colors and not have to chose.


But you have to decide which one gets which color. Which one's getting the Creamsicle Orange?


Jim88GT (choptop88@verizon.net) MSG #11, 04-22-2012 03:24 PM
      Good score!

Only question is how many nights sleeping on the couch for bringing home another stray in need of some TLC?

Jim


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #12, 04-22-2012 03:28 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by Jim88GT:

Good score!

Only question is how many nights sleeping on the couch for bringing home another stray in need of some TLC?

Jim


DON'T EVEN ASK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


mattwa (mattwa.inc@gmail.com) MSG #13, 04-22-2012 04:25 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:


Heck no, I love pics. The more the better. And, yea I realize that it may not cost that much less to do a SC motor. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. If I do swap out for a bigger motor, I won't have to spend the big bucks on it, and my goal will to make it look factory. This is not going to be a show car, i want to make it a daily driver.



Trust me, that pictured swap of mine is no show car either. If you want to see more pictures, you can look at my 3800/F23 thread if it peaks your interest.

 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:


DON'T EVEN ASK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And this is one reason why I'm not getting married.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-22-2012).]

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #14, 04-22-2012 06:20 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by mattwa:


And this is one reason why I'm not getting married.



This is the third one in a row that did not run when brought home. My Home Owners Assn just loves me........


mrfiero (mrfiero@juno.com) MSG #15, 04-22-2012 06:24 PM
      What shape is that maplight slider in? I have a nice gray one that I would trade you straight up for.....assuming yours is in nice shape and the slider works, etc. LMK.



SSN669chris MSG #16, 04-22-2012 07:05 PM
      Nice find! Looking forward to seeing it in person. If you need anything give a ring.

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #17, 10-03-2012 09:58 PM
      well it didn't take too long to decide to swap the motor. I ditched the idea of fixing the 2.8 and went out and bought a 2004 3800/auto trans and started the swap this last weekend.

Here are a few pics

pulling the engine


2004 Series III


Donor GP


2002 SII harness and TB


Motor and Trans mounted to the cradle



More to come

Rob


pontiackid86 (phllyracer@aol.com) MSG #18, 10-03-2012 10:11 PM
      always nice getting an 88 GT.. bought my cheap as dirt got it running and got about 600 miles out of it before the clutch went a couple weeks ago.. I want to try my hand at some kind of swap for it.. just dont know what..

KissMySSFiero (ssfiero@aol.com) MSG #19, 10-04-2012 04:01 AM
      Looking forward to watching this one. I may do the same on my DD in the future.


Is this going to take as long as your DOHC swap?



qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #20, 10-04-2012 07:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KissMySSFiero:

Looking forward to watching this one. I may do the same on my DD in the future.


Is this going to take as long as your DOHC swap?



No, whole point of this one is to make it a DD. No frills, just function. I learned what not to do on the DOHC swap. Plus, my home owners ass, has already given me my first warning. get it running and stop working on it in the driveway.

Rob


exoticse (exoticse@netzero.com) MSG #21, 10-04-2012 09:13 PM
     

Rob you said it was cheap and maybe i missed it, but how much did this baby cost you ?


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #22, 10-05-2012 12:10 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by exoticse:

Rob you said it was cheap and maybe i missed it, but how much did this baby cost you ?


.

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 03-04-2013).]

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #23, 10-05-2012 09:01 PM
      Update: painted the intake and valve covers today.




was going to paint the lower but I have a hole in the manifold, so I had to order a new one. damn Dexcool




Stripped down the harness, and am going to start creating a new one tomorrow.

Rob


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #24, 10-10-2012 09:13 PM
      Started the harness. Stripped down the harness and seperated each wire. WOW what a chore. Now I have to put it all back together again. First I have to get the motor back together, intake, injectors, exahust mani's etc.....



Now the fun begins

Rob


KissMySSFiero (ssfiero@aol.com) MSG #25, 10-11-2012 08:04 AM
      how much do you expect this swap to cost?

GADJet MSG #26, 10-11-2012 12:52 PM
      Cool thread... I too joined the club about a month ago. My joining wasnt nearly as cheap as yours though. :P Im interested in seeing this swap. It is NA right?

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #27, 10-11-2012 01:11 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by KissMySSFiero:

how much do you expect this swap to cost?


well, I started an excel spreadsheet to keep track of cost. It adds up fast. The motor/trans was $400 from the local pick n pull, and the motor/trans mounts were another $400 from WCF. I had to buy a new lower intake mani, that was $300 bucks. Also, the Pick n Pull guys put a hole in the oil pan and trans pan to drain the fluid, so I had to cough up another $100 for them. I have decided to replace most of the sensors (MAP, MAF, IAC... ) and had to buy a "gasket set" for the UIM, LIM, Rocker covers........ so i have a little over $2000 in in now.

I use the term "Cheap" but its all relative. I spent $6500 to buy my LS376, so if I can come in under $5000 ill be happy.

Rob


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #28, 10-11-2012 01:14 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GADJet:

Cool thread... I too joined the club about a month ago. My joining wasnt nearly as cheap as yours though. :P Im interested in seeing this swap. It is NA right?


Yes, 2004 NA. No perf mods this time around. I was going to buy a ZZP power log for the rear exhaust mani, but decided to pass for now. My goal is to get it all together and running, then i'll think about mod'ing it.

For now its just going to be a driver.

Rob


GADJet MSG #29, 10-11-2012 01:17 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:


well, I started an excel spreadsheet to keep track of cost. It adds up fast. The motor/trans was $400 from the local pick n pull, and the motor/trans mounts were another $400 from WCF. I had to buy a new lower intake mani, that was $300 bucks. Also, the Pick n Pull guys put a hole in the oil pan and trans pan to drain the fluid, so I had to cough up another $100 for them. I have decided to replace most of the sensors (MAP, MAF, IAC... ) and had to buy a "gasket set" for the UIM, LIM, Rocker covers........ so i have a little over $2000 in in now.

I use the term "Cheap" but its all relative. I spent $6500 to buy my LS376, so if I can come in under $5000 ill be happy.

Rob



Well when your done let me know the difference between the two. Performance wise and price wise... (Not your total cost just a comparison to your happiness).



qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #30, 10-11-2012 01:29 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by GADJet:
Well when your done let me know the difference between the two. Performance wise and price wise... (Not your total cost just a comparison to your happiness).


Well, to be honest, the two will be totally different cars. The LS376 is a 500hp, manual trans, car with full suspension/brake mods and the 3800 is going to be a 200hp, automatic, driver with stock suspension/brakes. I am going to upgrade the 3800 with the parts off my LS car (lower springs front, coil overs rear, 12" corvette rotors) but the goal of the 3800 is something I can drive in the rain, snow and if I make a run to the store, I won't' "care" if it gets a door ding (yes, i'll still care but you get the point).

Now, if I do upgrade the 3800 to a turbo/SC then I could give you more info,

If your asking which swap would I recommend, I'd have to tell you to go with the 3800 SC swap. Its way cheaper, way easier, and something you can do in your garage with standard tools (plus a huge helping hand from the forum). Don't get me wrong, I love my LS swap, but it cost me a crap ton of money.

I did a 3.4 DOHC swap a few years ago, it was my first "Fiero" engine swap. The "swap" part was done in a few weeks, but getting all the bugs worked out took me years. Now, at the time I was in the Navy and I made 4 deployments in that time, and, I lost interest in it several times. In the end, a set of crappy injectors were to blame for most of my heartache.

Rob



GADJet MSG #31, 10-11-2012 01:32 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:


Well, to be honest, the two will be totally different cars. The LS376 is a 500hp, manual trans, car with full suspension/brake mods and the 3800 is going to be a 200hp, automatic, driver with stock suspension/brakes. I am going to upgrade the 3800 with the parts off my LS car (lower springs front, coil overs rear, 12" corvette rotors) but the goal of the 3800 is something I can drive in the rain, snow and if I make a run to the store, I won't' "care" if it gets a door ding (yes, i'll still care but you get the point).

Now, if I do upgrade the 3800 to a turbo/SC then I could give you more info,

If your asking which swap would I recommend, I'd have to tell you to go with the 3800 SC swap. Its way cheaper, way easier, and something you can do in your garage with standard tools (plus a huge helping hand from the forum). Don't get me wrong, I love my LS swap, but it cost me a crap ton of money.

I did a 3.4 DOHC swap a few years ago, it was my first "Fiero" engine swap. The "swap" part was done in a few weeks, but getting all the bugs worked out took me years. Now, at the time I was in the Navy and I made 4 deployments in that time, and, I lost interest in it several times. In the end, a set of crappy injectors were to blame for most of my heartache.

Rob



Great info Rob. Thanks for the prompt reply.


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #32, 10-21-2012 10:14 PM
      well, got some work done on the swap today Got a box of parts in on Friday, and also got back my exhaust mani's all ceramic coated. Put on the last bits and now I can start the harness.





made up a rig to put the hole in the firewall in the right spot. This rig will help me run all the wires and I hope it will help in making the harness the correct length.



Also started cleaning the engine bay. I removed all the insolation, and all the crap I wont need for the swap. Lots of the rubber was dryrotted, but the good news is 99.99 free of rust.







I hope to work on the harness this week, but I may not get to it until next weekend.

Cheers

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 10-21-2012).]

mattwa (mattwa.inc@gmail.com) MSG #33, 10-21-2012 10:59 PM
      Sweet progress! Great looking setup for a turbo. haha.

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #34, 10-25-2012 01:07 PM
      went by the local pick n pull yesterday. Down one isle I hit the jackpot. Found 5, 3800 cars within about 15 feet of each other. three were NA and two were 3800SC cars. one was a 2003 SC (Grand Prix) so I pulled the TB, fuel rail, ECM and picked up a OBDII port. I didn't know I needed one of them until I read about one in another thread. Picked up a few odds and ends. Pulled the leather shift lever/boot off the 2003 it was in the best shape.

The sad thing was that the other SC car was a 1998 Daytona Pace Car Grand Prix. It was in perfect shape, two door, blue, leather interior. Only 169K on the motor and like I said, it was not dented or damaged in any way. I'd have given the owner $500 bucks for it, which is more than he got from PnP.

Power washed the engine bay, it cleaned up nice, and now I can POR 15 it and make it ready for the engine. No work on the hanress, however, I have been reading more threads and have a few more ideas.

Rob



85FieroFL (robertdelgadojr@yahoo.com) MSG #35, 12-28-2012 09:25 AM
      Any updates? I love your build threads!

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #36, 01-31-2013 07:36 AM
      OK, update time. I finished building the main engine harness and was starting to work on the CC harness when I realized that I didn’t have the “AR” servo, I had a “UV” instead. Not wanting any issues I went to the yard to find an AR. I figured it would be easy, but after an hour I finally found one on the second to last car, in the last row of GM. Go figure. Pulled it off and got started on looking over the FORD rows for the belt tensioner I needed for my modified dogbone/Alternator bracket.

I had heard that FORD motors had one that would work, but I was not sure what FORD to find it on. I looked for awhile and just like GM, FORD only uses about 3-4 different types of serpentine tensioners on their motors. So I found the cleanest, most accessible one and pulled it. It's off a FORD 3.0L motor. When I got home and compared it to photos I have on my laptop, it still does not look like the ones used in other swaps, but when I tried it on my setup, I could tell it would work. More on this in a later post.

So now I’m walking by the Dodge rows and I spot a PT Cruiser all banged up. It had been in the yard for a while and was missing a lot of parts, but it had a good radiator/front clip. I looked into the engine bay (still on the hunt for the perfect tensioner) and I noticed the small radiator. I looked it over and at first it was not obvious to me it was for the trans, I thought it was an engine oil cooler, but when I followed the lines they led to the transmission. I’m not sure it will work but in my swap I don’t have an automatic car’s radiator, so I was going to have to figure out how to run coolant lines up to the front of the car and back. Talking with others they suggested that I run a trans-cooler to a side scoop, so I had that idea in mind when I pulled this one. I ran the part number through rockauto and it comes back as an honest trans cooler designed for the PT 2.4L, I plan to run it parallel with the engine cradle just behind the gas tank, slightly in the air stream below the car. I also plan to duct some air into it with some kind of sheet metal fab. Still working on this.

Finally, as I went back to the GM side, I walked down the only isle I had to skip because a couple of ya-hoos were pulling a motor and had a huge cart in the way, anyway, as I walked this isle I found a 97 GP SE with the passenger spindle, upper and lower control arms already removed. The only part still attached was the axle. I was not 100% sure it would fit my swap, but ALL the hard work was done and I could not pass it up, so I popped it out of the trans and put it in my cart. I also found a bunch of the heat resistant wire loom on this car, so I pulled it. This stuff is awesome and is real expensive to purchase. I already used some for my new engine harness.

Checked out and gave the man $59.00 bucks for it all.

More soon.



installed the CC here. It fits under the engine cover. this was the easiest place/way to do it. required cutting a piece of 1"x 1" square tube about 5" long, drilling two holes and modifying/cutting the original CC bracket. Started to cut/lable the wires, putting it here gives me lots of extra harness to cut off. No going back now. Its moving forward slowly.



[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 02-06-2013).]

eljibaro127 (eljibaro127@gmail.com) MSG #37, 02-05-2013 09:55 PM
      soooo any info?

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #38, 02-06-2013 01:20 PM
      i've been moving along, not updating this thread with the pics. I have some new pics to add and then I can sort out all the text.

Main engine harness is done, dogbone modified with belt tensioner, belt length figured out.

working on CC harness, working on Alt bracket.

need to figure out axles, and make a vacuum port using the removed evap canister purge valve.

updates soon.

(PS - come on good weather, work with me)

Rob


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #39, 02-08-2013 09:29 PM
      some updated pics.

This is an older shot I took last week before I finished my engine harness. You can see all the wires labeled and I had an execl spread sheet that I created to help sort out each wire.


This is the shift assy that one of the club members had made up for his 3800 swap. He decieded on a different method, and had this laying around. Thanks Al for the hook up.



This is a shot of the tensoner setup I came up with, its off a Ford 3.0L motor. Its not the best, but it will work. I think I will have to use a larger pulley, it clears as is, but I want a little more room.


I hope to work on the CC harness this week end. I also need to start working on the fuel lines, fuel pump and the coolant system. I want to install a new radiator and put new hoses on the car.

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 02-08-2013).]

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #40, 02-09-2013 11:37 PM
      So today I welded up my alt bracket. mounted the alt for the last time (I hope) and cleaned up the Ford tensioner. Got some new bolts/hardware for everything and I think the serpentine system is done. Now I just have to get a belt that will fit. Some pics below







BMTFIERO (bmtfiero@outlook.com) MSG #41, 02-11-2013 01:36 PM
      Sweet, I don't know how I missed this one.


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #42, 02-14-2013 09:20 PM
      OK, so Sunday I went out and picked up a few belts to test out the tensioner. I put on the second one and I got a good fit, but I had an issue. The pulley was too small to lift the belt up past the waterpump. So at the waterpump I had the belt rubbing against itself (in opposite directions). I felt this would lead to belt wear so I went back to the parts store and got a few bigger pulleys. Then the issue I had was that the pulley was not able to clear the bolt head on the tensioner. I tried a few different bolts and no joy. So I decided to scratch the whole thing and start again.



This time I used a new Ford 3.8L pulley off a T-Bird. I had good luck finding both the spacer and bolt (correct thread on end and thicker bolt for the main body) in my parts box. Then I had to make a small metal plate to act as a stop for the tensioner (to clock it at the correct position). Big issue with this design is that the new tensioner works clockwise vice the old one that was counter-clockwise, so I had to put it on the other side of the engine. Now it's attached to the front head vice the alt bracket. The belts I had were the wrong size so back to the store for new belts, and after trying a few I found one that fit. What a bunch of work for something so small. If this does not cleat the hood, I'll cut up the damn hood before I do this all over again.

I did save everything from the first try in case I have no other option but to revert back.

Cheers.

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 02-14-2013).]

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #43, 02-14-2013 09:29 PM
      I needed another vacuum source and as it turns out I had an extra hole in the intake at the "Removed" canister purge control valve. I built a bracket with a brass vacuum bung and installed it after painting. I found a 180 degree rubber hose and then grabbed a new rubber hose /w end and installed it on the manifold. I am going to find another 180 degree bend rubber hose for the end and instll a small portion of a hard line between the two. This will work for now, but i'll fix it soon.






Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 02-14-2013).]

nosrac MSG #44, 02-14-2013 11:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:





I used Dayco part#89014. It is a larger Idler pulley that solves this issue as it is 109mm and use a 80" belt.
I did get some belt sequel when the RPM dipped below 750 rpm but I fixed that right up by upping the idle with my DHP.
I have a large cam so I needed to up it anyway as the idle would not stop hunting until I did.
There is also a 131mm pulley Dayco part#131087 that may work even better.


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #45, 02-15-2013 04:22 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:
I used Dayco part#89014. It is a larger Idler pulley that solves this issue as it is 109mm and use a 80" belt.
I did get some belt sequel when the RPM dipped below 750 rpm but I fixed that right up by upping the idle with my DHP.
I have a large cam so I needed to up it anyway as the idle would not stop hunting until I did.
There is also a 131mm pulley Dayco part#131087 that may work even better.


From what I can tell my issue is with the tensioner bolt hole. its tapered in like a V and the issue I had was that a bolt with a bigger head contacted the pulley, and I could not get a pulley large enough to clear the bolt head. I'm not sure if the pulleys I tried were the numbers you listed. I am 99% sure that what I have now will work, and I if I need another inch or so clearance I can run a 79.5" belt.

I am running a 80.5" belt on it now and I do have the extra flex in the tensioner if needed. A 79" was too small, and if the store had the 79.5" or 80" id have used it, but they only had a 80.5" on the shelf. I'll keep an eye out for a smaller belt and keep this one in the trunk as a back up. I can also clock the tensioner downward another inch or so if I need to, so as it is now I do have some room to flex with. But if it clears the hood as is, I will not touch it again.

My goal with this three day weekend is to tape/loom my harness and then start working on the car to get it ready for the install. I want to run the fuel lines and drop the tank (new pump) with the engine out so I have the extra room.

Rob


unboundmo (unboundmo@aol.com) MSG #46, 02-16-2013 03:25 AM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by qwikgta:

well, got some work done on the swap today Got a box of parts in on Friday, and also got back my exhaust mani's all ceramic coated. Put on the last bits and now I can start the harness.





made up a rig to put the hole in the firewall in the right spot. This rig will help me run all the wires and I hope it will help in making the harness the correct length.



Also started cleaning the engine bay. I removed all the insolation, and all the crap I wont need for the swap. Lots of the rubber was dryrotted, but the good news is 99.99 free of rust.







I hope to work on the harness this week, but I may not get to it until next weekend.

Cheers




That is just beautiful...

And I agree keeping the original look and color scheme. Great job

[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 02-16-2013).]

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #47, 02-25-2013 08:44 PM
      finished the loom. hope to drop the gas tank and install the fuel pump, new hose and finish up the supply/return lines. Then it will be time for install......













Rob


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #48, 03-04-2013 10:46 PM
      changed the location of the CC servo. I didn't like the old spot. This gives it a better angle on the cable.



almost done with the engine bay. I removed all the unused brackets and now i just need to hit a few small areas with some more chassis black POR.



Rob


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #49, 03-11-2013 08:31 PM
      So the first step in selling the car is making it a roller. So Sunday I spent the day putting the motor in, the suspension on and then getting it back on the ground. Its not the correct time to put the motor in, I still had a few things I needed to do, but if I'm going to sell it, it needs to be able to be moved. I may still work on it from time to time, but I don't plan on putting any more money into it. I do have a lot of parts for it, some will go with it, some will not. If I get it running, i'll ask more for it.















I have to cut a little around the dog bone so that I can clear, but that was the only area that has any interference.

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 03-11-2013).]

mattwa (mattwa.inc@gmail.com) MSG #50, 03-11-2013 11:26 PM
      How much are you selling it for?

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #51, 03-12-2013 08:48 AM
      .

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 09-01-2014).]

nosrac MSG #52, 03-12-2013 07:57 PM
      So what happened to the she Hulk? I see her in the background jacked up and ready for the trans swap. A F23 could get er done with minimal $$$. A F40 NOT so much.



qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #53, 03-12-2013 08:52 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:
So what happened to the she Hulk? I see her in the background jacked up and ready for the trans swap. A F23 could get er done with minimal $$$. A F40 NOT so much.


Yea, I was under it checking out the leaky seal, I was hoping to find the bearing/seal I bought months ago, but after a week of looking for it, I still can't find it. Now I just need to get the wheels back on and get her on the ground. I have a club meeting on Saturday, and I plan to drive her one last time before the new trans and full suspension/brake upgrade. Stay tuned for more info on my HT motorsports tubular control arms, QA1 coil overs, dropped spindles and 13" Wilwood kit.

Rob


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #54, 07-09-2013 09:44 AM
      Bump to get this thread near the top. I will start updating it soon.

F40 swap done in the Green car (LS376). Plan to update that thread too.

Rob


DimeMachine MSG #55, 08-23-2013 07:16 AM
      Nice build. Nice thing about the 3800 NA is it gives good power and excellet fuel efficiency. Question about your exhaust. Where did you get the manifolds coated and how much did it cost. Wondering if and why you removed the factory welded heat shield from the crossover? I would think you could get the whole thing coated as is (maybe I am wrong)? and the bay would be cooler with it? Not being critical, just wondering how you came to the conclusions you did.

Thanks in advance

[This message has been edited by DimeMachine (edited 08-23-2013).]

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #56, 08-24-2013 08:58 PM
      Thanks.

I got the ceramic coat done local. I have a Powder coat guy about 3 miles from my house. He does all my PC/Ceramic. I removed the heat shield because I wanted a good look at the same time. I may wrap the crossover if it causes a problem, but it looks so damn good as is.

Rob


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #57, 12-13-2013 04:43 PM
      Update. Long overdue, but to be honest I have nothing to report. I have built and installed the axles, but that is about it. I also picked up a few body parts that I will need. Got a new trunk lid to replace the one that came with the car (it had 10 holes in it from different spoilers).

My main reason for not working on it was the fact that I had to drop some serious coin to put a F40 in my other car. Once I got the LS376/F40 all figured out I was driving the car all summer/fall. Plan is to get this one up and running this spring. I need a few 50+ degree days so I can go out and put some time into her.

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 09-01-2014).]

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #58, 09-01-2014 08:58 AM
      well, its back up for sale. I hope it goes to a good home. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...065196.html#lastpost

just don't have the time or energy to put into it. I don't want it to just sit and rot in my driveway.

Rob


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #59, 05-08-2015 05:37 PM
      SOLD, thanks for the interest

Rob


SSN669chris MSG #60, 12-25-2015 04:03 PM
      Rob has been a great help an I am finally getting around to getting this swap done on my 88GT, so I am hijacking this post for a while.

I am sticking with the stock fuel pump and will upgrade later.
The throttle cable does not fit very well, I have seen a lot of pictures with zip ties for mounting. Is there a better way?

Is there an intake hose that works or will I need to build something?

I am sure there will be more questions later
Chris


SSN669chris MSG #61, 12-28-2015 04:30 PM
      Thanks for all the great information here! The physical engine swap was straight forward but everything else has been an adventure. Hoping to hear back from Ryan soon and send my ECU in for reprograming. I am still a long way from mounting all the electronics inside. The hoses, O2 sensor and fuel rail stuff is on order.

Decided I could not build from this.

So I am coping many of you and have opted to keep the trunk so there are more parts on order.

Ran into a problem with the throttle hitting the deck lid and that the intake would hit the deck torsion bar. Today I installed a Rodney strut and have a bruised finger to show for removing the torsion bars.

Tomorrow it is off to Pick & Pull


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #62, 12-29-2015 11:46 AM
      Chris, I cut down the linkage bracket to make it fit under the strut, but i think West Coast Fiero sells a modified bracket to fit. Also, great choice on exhaust. The exhaust part I had for you is similar to the one in the picture. I was only going to use the very end of the bracket (at the motor) and weld on to that. Picture looks like you have the exhaust all figured out. Only things left when I had it were the plumbing (fuel, coolant, A/C) and the finished electrical. At the time, I only had 4-5 wires to finish, and they were the ones on the body of the car (harness to body). If your car is alreay an automatic, then it will be easier. Read about the TCC lockout/lockup because that still needed to be run. One thing I never got to tackle was the transmission lines. If you have an auto car then this will be easy, but my car was a 5 speed so it didnt have the trans cooler lines run. Also, you need to source the trans cooler to trans line ends (at the trans). Again, if your car is an auto this may be an easy thing for you. I'll try to get out there on Thurs-Fri if you good with that.

http://www.westcoastfiero.c...s/hardware/index.php


Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 12-29-2015).]

SSN669chris MSG #63, 12-29-2015 06:41 PM
      Thanks Rob! Thursday or Friday would be great. You are always a great help.

I got down to pick and pull today and retrieved another bracket so that is all sorted now.

Had to replace the oil dipstick it was a casualty if installing everything.
Installed the spark plugs after turning the engine over. I will be seeing what the options are for wires. The plug next to the alternator has limited space.



The current list of things to finish looks like
Mount the coil pack
Ignition wires
Plumbing fuel - parts on order
Coolant system - parts on order
Finish the electrical
Transmission Pan
Transmission lines
O2 sensor
Exhaust - parts on order
Build the dog bone
Intake hose - parts on order
ECU - sending this week
Mount the Electrical inside the car to include the ECU
Vacuum piping for everything

That is the list for now I hope I am covering everything.


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #64, 12-29-2015 09:52 PM
      I used on oil stick off a 3800 camaro, because its longer and lets you reach it without having to dig in the back for it.

SSN669chris MSG #65, 12-31-2015 06:42 PM
      Thanks Rob I will be looking for that Oil stick on my next trip to the yard, for now it is the stock one.
I do plan to you the stock exhaust flange now. The ebay part was not what I had hoped
Got the fuel line stuff from Summit, but forgot to order the flaring tool. Guess they will look pretty for a few days.
ECU is off to Ryan and the transmission pan is mounted.
The rain has slowed me up but I am not in a hurry.

The current list of things to finish looks like
Mount the coil pack
Ignition wires
Plumbing fuel - more parts on order
Coolant system
Finish the electrical
Transmission lines
O2 sensor
Exhaust - parts on order
Build the dog bone
Intake hose - parts on order
Mount the Electrical inside the car to include the ECU
Vacuum piping for everything


SSN669chris MSG #66, 01-01-2016 04:42 PM
      More done today.

Transmission lines completed, I will do a steel braided set later.
Coolant hoses installed, the drivers side did not fit well so some modifications were needed.


This is were I think the coil pack will go.

Need to make a bracket now.


SSN669chris MSG #67, 01-02-2016 05:54 PM
      Some days are harder then others. Failed on the Dog Bone construction but will try again tomorrow.

There is a better place for the coil pack but I need different wires an to strip all the sound deadening material off the engine compartment bulkheads.


Summit came through with fast shipping on the flaring tool. Could not get the new lines to flare. After some colorful motivational speaking I realized the OEM lines were about half as thick in wall thickness. Seams that a lot of the new stuff makes up for material quality by doubling the wall thickness. Flaring tool worked like a champ on the old lines.


Chris


SSN669chris MSG #68, 01-06-2016 09:32 PM
      Finally finished building the Dog Bone


Ryan sent the computer back today!

The list is getting shorter

Finish the electrical
Exhaust - parts on order
Intake hose - parts on order
Mount the Electrical inside the car to include the ECU
Vacuum piping for everything


SSN669chris MSG #69, 01-10-2016 05:54 PM
      Long day with the welder


Some of the other work







SSN669chris MSG #70, 01-15-2016 07:09 PM
      After chasing a couple of wires, clogged fuel rail and fuel injectors. IT LIVES

Jim88GT (choptop88@verizon.net) MSG #71, 01-15-2016 07:26 PM
      Nice! Are you coming to the meeting tomorrow?

Jim


SSN669chris MSG #72, 01-15-2016 08:37 PM
      Yep but don't know if I will be all reassembled by then.

SSN669chris MSG #73, 01-17-2016 06:42 PM
      I am stumped. I have a squeal at idle that I thought was the alternator or the belt, but when I remove the oil cap the squeal goes away. The engine runs terrible but the squeal stops. I am sucking a lot of air in through the crank case at Idle. I have replaced the PCV valve and O ring.

Thanks to qwikgta I finally got the car running smoothly after swapping to the throttle body the computer was programmed for.


Took it out for a short test drive


Jim88GT (choptop88@verizon.net) MSG #74, 01-17-2016 09:44 PM
      That's good news how late did the meeting last?


SSN669chris MSG #75, 01-19-2016 05:58 PM
      So a series 3 engine with a series 2 throttle body doesn't equal working PCV system so for now I bought a cheap oil cap and mounted a filter to it.

The catalytic converter needed more of a heat shield

And I needed to move the brake line away from the heat.

Welded up a couple of quick exhaust tips to keep the boys in blue happy until I can make some better stuff.


Ran like a champ today, but the brakes need some attending to.

[This message has been edited by SSN669chris (edited 01-19-2016).]

qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #76, 01-20-2016 06:57 PM
      Chris, when I was setting things up, I was not sure what to do with the PVC. I made that "loop" hose from the top of the intake to the side because one was a source of vacuum and the other needed vacuum. BUT... that may not have been the correct setup. I didn't get that far with the build to see if that was a good idea or not. I do remember that I was looking into all the sources of vacuum and what needed vacuum when I sold it.

Rob


SSN669chris MSG #77, 01-25-2016 05:47 PM
      The car is running much better. 3rd gear seems to be an issue not sure yet if I will be learning to rebuild a transmission next. I have worked through some of my self-induced bugs (did not install a thermostat for one) and driven the car more I stated to get a P0134 code. Turn out it is another self-induced bug, it seems the 2004 O2 sensor and the 2003 for the Grand Prix are not the same, so if you wire the car for an 03 use an 03 senor.

SSN669chris MSG #78, 01-26-2016 08:35 PM
      After much effort in trying to prove otherwise the transmission is toast. The Fiero is back in the air and the tear down starts tomorrow. I was able to get my hands on a transmission rebuilt 3 years ago, the fluid was in good shape with no bad smells. For 300 it is worth a shot.


SSN669chris MSG #79, 01-27-2016 08:16 PM
      Started to disassemble today at 1600. The new transmission fluid was already dark and smelled burnt. Up to disconnecting the cradle from the frame, done for the night.

Chris


SSN669chris MSG #80, 01-28-2016 08:27 PM
      So cradle out and back in. Tomorrow I will fill the fluids and light her off again. Found a couple of things along the way, glad I caught them now but I did not get through relocating the coil pack.




qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #81, 01-29-2016 05:45 PM
      what was the harness rubbing on? It makes no sense that the trans was bad, the motor had low mileage and was a rear end crash, it drove at the time it crashed. What year was the trans? You may have to re-wire the harness because it was done up for a 2003 trans. Sorry about the trans.

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 01-29-2016).]

SSN669chris MSG #82, 01-29-2016 07:25 PM
      No problem at all. Always a risk when you buy things.

The wires that were running near the harmonic balancer were the one rubbed. Most likely I disturbed them from where you intended to run them. The trans is how my luck runs. I have replaced it and it is good now. Of course the return line blew off on the test drive even though it was the same way it had been for the last 100 miles. fortunate that I had the tools with me and could fix it, but almost ran out of transmission fluid and the car looks like a murder victim now. I will button the rest up tomorrow and hopefully when I get back in town I can get back on track with it.

Chris


SSN669chris MSG #83, 02-14-2016 06:50 PM
      Finally reliably on the road again, or at least for now. The transmission swap is done and I added an-6 lines for the transmission lines. A little overkill but after loosing a line I was taking no chances. Re worked my frozen calipers and replaced the rotors. After the mess I had with drop springs and the 12in brake kit I decided to go back to stock springs and Rodney's 1 in drop ball joints. I still had clearance issues though. The paint did not hold up well when I installed the calipers so they will be next on the list for the powder coaters after the rims.
I also installed the coil overs and can actually fit the low profile jack under the car now. No more driving up on a patio brick to get the car high enought to get a jack under it.




1MohrFiero MSG #84, 12-17-2016 08:58 AM
      Great thread. Thanks

[This message has been edited by 1MohrFiero (edited 12-17-2016).]

Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #85, 12-18-2016 12:55 PM
     
 
quote
Originally posted by SSN669chris:
...After the mess I had with drop springs and the 12in brake kit I decided to go back to stock springs and Rodney's 1 in drop ball joints. I still had clearance issues though.
...


The lowering ball joints will actually create more of an issue with the rotors, than will the lowering springs.
I have lowering springs on the front of my coupe, with the 12" rotors. No issues whatsoever.
BUT, you will need to "clearance" the tips of the lower control arms.

Check this thread.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/069174.html


qwikgta (qwikgta@yahoo.com) MSG #86, 12-18-2016 11:39 PM
      Raydar, I actually bought this car from Chris. Its my motor swap pulled out of the Black GT from Page 1 and installed into Chris's 88 GT (the red car). So in the end, i'm still a member of the 88 GT club.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/097020.html

Rob


Raydar (raydarfiero@comcast.net) MSG #87, 12-19-2016 05:30 AM
      Hah! Okay. I thought it was your car, but I just happened to notice the "C4 rotor interference" comment, so I thought I'd throw my .02 out there, FWIW.
Nice ride!