a pivot from coronavirus topics. US Marines lose their tanks (Page 1/2)
maryjane MAR 30, 06:04 PM


I'm not sure how I feel about this. Boots on the ground backed up by HE artillery rounds is kinda hard to beat but getting back to their amphibious roots appears to be the goal.

Of course, all this is only good up until the first shot is fired....
In the next decade, the Marine Corps will no longer operate tanks or have law enforcement battalions.
It will also have three fewer infantry units and will shed about 7% of its overall force as the service prepares for a potential face-off with China.
The Marine Corps is cutting all military occupational specialties associated with tank battalions, law enforcement units and bridging companies, the service announced Monday.
It's also reducing its number of infantry battalions from 24 to 21 and cutting tilt-rotor, attack and heavy-lift aviation squadrons. The changes are the result of a sweeping months-long review and war-gaming experiments that laid out the force the service will need by 2030. Commandant Gen. David Berger directed the review, which he has called his No. 1 priority as the service's top general. "Developing a force that incorporates emerging technologies and a significant change to force structure within our current resource constraints will require the Marine Corps to become smaller and remove legacy capabilities," a news release announcing the changes states.

By 2030, the Marine Corps will drop down to an end strength of 170,000 personnel.
That's about 16,000 fewer leathernecks than it has today. Cost savings associated with trimming the ranks will pay for a 300% increase in rocket artillery capabilities, anti-ship missiles, unmanned systems and other high-tech equipment leaders say Marines will need to take on threats such as China or Russia.
"The Marine Corps is redesigning the 2030 force for naval expeditionary warfare in actively contested spaces," the announcement states.
Units and squadrons that will be deactivated under plan include:
3rd Battalion, 8th Marines .
Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 264
Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 462
Marine Light Attack Helicopter Squadron 469
Marine Wing Support Groups 27 and 37
8th Marine Regiment Headquarters Company.
The 8th Marine Regiment's other units -- 1/8 and 2/8 -- will be absorbed by other commands.
Second Marines will take on 1/8, and 2/8 will go to the 6th Marine Regiment.
Artillery cannon batteries will fall from 21 today to five.
Amphibious vehicle companies will drop from six to four.
The Hawaii-based Marine Light Attack Helicopter Squadron 367, which flies AH-1Z and UH-1Y aircraft, will also be deactivated and relocated to Camp Pendleton, California, the release states.
And plans to reactivate 5th Battalion, 10th Marines, as a precision rocket artillery system unit are also being scrapped. That unit's assigned batteries will instead realign under 10th Marines, according to the release.
"The future Fleet Marine Force requires a transformation from a legacy force to a modernized force with new organic capabilities," it adds. "The FMF in 2030 will allow the Navy and Marine Corps to restore the strategic initiative and to define the future of maritime conflict by capitalizing on new capabilities to deter conflict and dominate inside the enemy's weapon engagement zone." Existing infantry units are going to get smaller and lighter, according to the plan, "to support naval expeditionary warfare, and built to facilitate distributed and Expeditionary Advanced Base Operations.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-30-2020).]

olejoedad MAR 30, 07:31 PM
Times and battlefields change....
maryjane MAR 30, 07:51 PM
The basic tenets of battle tho, do not.
I do understand dropping the Abrahms tank, as it is heavy and is not amphibious. But to leave most of your artillery out of the battle and rely on stand off weapons or naval gunfire and aviation assets is not (to me) a good replacement.
blackrams MAR 31, 01:20 PM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

The basic tenets of battle tho, do not.
I do understand dropping the Abrahms tank, as it is heavy and is not amphibious. But to leave most of your artillery out of the battle and rely on stand off weapons or naval gunfire and aviation assets is not (to me) a good replacement.




This tells me the Marine's role is being reduced and the Navy is getting more $$$$. That's fine, well and good until they need boots on the ground. Reducing the heavy supports will mean when Marines are called in to take ground, casualties will be significantly higher. Just my prediction. I don't get to make that call. Just glad I'm no longer a 0311.

Rams
williegoat MAR 31, 05:46 PM
No amor for the armor.
No thanks for the tanks.
No answers to the panzers.
The end of the track for the track.
randye MAR 31, 07:31 PM
I would imagine that with the loss of their heavy armor, they will also be losing the M88 recovery vehicles out of their TO&E
randye MAR 31, 07:52 PM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:


I'm not sure how I feel about this. Boots on the ground backed up by HE artillery rounds is kinda hard to beat but getting back to their amphibious roots appears to be the goal.




Tanks are not artillery. They are a direct fire weapon.

That said, they are sometimes useful as close support for ground pounders, but are more and more vulnerable to some untrained kid with a $100 rocket these days.

Tanks are also a logistical nightmare, especially for an amphibious force, requiring a huge supply train of ammo, fuel, recovery vehicles, spares, maintenance personnel, etc.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-31-2020).]

maryjane MAR 31, 11:56 PM

quote
Originally posted by randye:


Tanks are not artillery. They are a direct fire weapon.

That said, they are sometimes useful as close support for ground pounders, but are more and more vulnerable to some untrained kid with a $100 rocket these days.

Tanks are also a logistical nightmare, especially for an amphibious force, requiring a huge supply train of ammo, fuel, recovery vehicles, spares, maintenance personnel, etc.



I was referring to:

quote
Artillery cannon batteries will fall from 21 today to five.
randye APR 01, 01:29 AM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

I was referring to:

Artillery cannon batteries will fall from 21 today to five.




Now THAT is a very bad thing.

I don't know who said it but I remember a quote that applies here:

"Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar fray"

I cannot imagine what the USMC is thinking.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 04-01-2020).]

Blacktree APR 03, 12:05 AM
I think the USMC is undergoing a paradigm shift. For a long time, they've been a "jack of all trades" branch. Now the leadership has decided to focus on a more specific role for the USMC. I guess we'll see how that pans out.