Camshaft / Rockers Combination - 3.1 Stroker (Page 2/3)
82-T/A [At Work] OCT 09, 05:56 AM

quote
Originally posted by La fiera:

What a lot of people dont know is that when 1.6 rockers are installed the camshaft's profile changes proportionally.
In other words, your valves open earlier, stay open longer and close later in comparison to the stock rocker ratio so the cam seems "bigger".
The only concern is what Raydar mentioned about coil bind.
As far as the cam lobes being wiped out that is contributed by low quality oil with not enough zinc and phosphorous for break-in and regular service.



I'll be the first to admit, I bought a cheap cam at the time. The "Fireball 2" cam... don't remember who made it. But I used Shell Rotella which even advertised having more Zinc on it. But I changed it out after 500 miles and immediately went to synthetic. Maybe that was my problem. I don't know. Next time, I'm going to have to do it right... it's going to be a few years.



quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

1.52 is, technically, the stock ratio. Aftermarket vendors will typically be a bit more "exacting" than the factory. (1.52 vs "sorta" 1.5.)
Yeah... The 272 is probably my favorite V6-60 cam. (I *always* prefer stock ratio rockers. They're what the cam is designed to run with.)
It's what I had in my 3.4. I used the Comp Cams roller tip rockers. Didn't see any point in springing for the full roller rockers. Seemed like a bunch of trouble and money, for very little gain.
But yeah... you'll have to have the spring pockets machined to accommodate the compressed height of the spring. Other than that, and breaking the cam in, properly, I can't really offer anything.

Good to see you man!



Thanks Raydar, having this conversation, I can almost remember the machine shop asking me if they wanted me to re-use the old springs. What they did was install big washers (of sorts) under the springs to give them better spring rates, or something... they knew what they were doing, but I was obviously re-using my old springs.

I did buy the H272 cam a while back, and that's what I'll be using, and I have the 1.52:1 rockers (thanks for that info). I think what I'll do is replace everything else (valves are new). So should I just go ahead and order all new parts from Crane Cams? Do you happen to know what I should be looking for when I order from JEGS or SUMMIT? Thanks!!!



quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

Keep in mind that a 3.1 with a traditionally fully ported intake should be fine for a 3.1 ... My 3.4 is 10:1 compression with a 480/480 roller cam and the dyno is lower in the video because my racing wheels weigh 52 lbs each...





Damn, 10:1 is pretty nice. Yeah... I port-matched, and hogged out. This time, I'll probably do the entire extrude-hone process on all the intake pieces... just want to make everything perfect.
La fiera OCT 10, 09:18 AM
Synthetic means nothing is if doesnt have the right additive package for flat tappet cams.
This are the oils I recommend for our engines because they are rich in zinc and phosphorous and some of these oils have some Molybdenum.

Valvoline VR series Non-Synthetic
Liqui Moly MoS2 10W-40 Semi-Synthetic
Lucas Hot Rod series Non-Synthetic
Maxima Triple-Ester series Full-Synthetic

They are available in any viscosity you use except the Liqui-Moly MoS2 only is availabe in 10W-40 grade.
lou_dias OCT 10, 10:00 AM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I'll probably do the entire extrude-hone process on all the intake pieces... just want to make everything perfect.



/drool

Where will you get that done at and how much?
La fiera OCT 10, 11:59 AM

quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:


/drool

Where will you get that done at and how much?



It'll be cheaper if he makes a sheet metal intake and gain more performance
that process is expensive. I checked 6 years ago and they wanted $1200 for the upper and lower plenum.
lou_dias OCT 10, 01:38 PM

quote
Originally posted by La fiera:
It'll be cheaper if he makes a sheet metal intake and gain more performance
that process is expensive. I checked 6 years ago and they wanted $1200 for the upper and lower plenum.


Lower or did you mean the middle?
82-T/A [At Work] OCT 10, 11:12 PM

quote
Originally posted by La fiera:

Synthetic means nothing is if doesnt have the right additive package for flat tappet cams.
This are the oils I recommend for our engines because they are rich in zinc and phosphorous and some of these oils have some Molybdenum.

Valvoline VR series Non-Synthetic
Liqui Moly MoS2 10W-40 Semi-Synthetic
Lucas Hot Rod series Non-Synthetic
Maxima Triple-Ester series Full-Synthetic

They are available in any viscosity you use except the Liqui-Moly MoS2 only is availabe in 10W-40 grade.




Hey, thanks for this. I really appreciate this. I'm going to write all this down. What specific oil would you recommend FOR break-in, specifically?



quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

/drool

Where will you get that done at and how much?



I've never had it done, but the company is named "Extrude Hone" after the service they provide:
https://extrudehone.com/ind...solutions/automotive

Years ago, they almost exclusively did automotive... primarily hogging out intake manifolds. But it seems they've grown substantially, and their website is so convoluted that I'm not even sure what it is they offer anymore. I'd guess that maybe they're now in the business of providing the technology, rather than the service? I can't be sure. I think I'm going to shoot them an e-mail....

Essentially what they do is... there is a vat of metallic "goo..." This goo is forced through the intake at a high rate of speed. Essentially, they would build a jig that would attach to the neck of your intake plenum, and then a jig at the base of the intake manifold. The metallic / abrasive goo would be forced at... I dunno... whatever PSI or miles an hour, and it would carve out the plenum, runners, and intake. While there would certainly be a porting / hogging effect, the primary benefit is that all restriction and imperfection is completely removed, leaving the intake with what's essentially a perfect sheen with NO obstruction whatsoever.

They had numbers on there on what people typically expected to see in gains, and while "max" horsepower was increased, the most noticeable improvement was the dyno curve from mid to upper RPMs.

I don't know anyone who has ever done this on a Fiero... but with the type of 3-piece intake system we have, it just makes sense. I'll e-mail and find out and respond back.

EDIT: Ok... yeah, so that company ONLY sells the equipment now. But, there are multiple companies online that offer the service using their purchased equipment.

Here is one in CA: https://www.extrudehoneafm....ting-in-torrance-ca/
And here is one in NY: https://boneheadperformance.com/extrude-honing/

and there are a few others...



quote
Originally posted by La fiera:

It'll be cheaper if he makes a sheet metal intake and gain more performance
that process is expensive. I checked 6 years ago and they wanted $1200 for the upper and lower plenum.



Yeah, it would... but I'm one of those people who wants everything to look 100% stock while gaining the most performance I can on an otherwise slightly modified engine.

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 10-10-2019).]

lou_dias OCT 11, 10:02 AM
From the NY company they list:

6 Cylinder Aluminum EFI Intake (2 pc)- $910

Anyone can port the lower intake. The main restriction is definitely the upper and middle...

EDIT:
YIKES!
6 Cylinder Cast Iron Heads- $1145

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 10-11-2019).]

La fiera OCT 11, 10:18 PM

quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

YIKES!
6 Cylinder Cast Iron Heads- $1145




WOW!!! And that is without flow numbers!!!???

I got the heads on my 2.8 CNCed for $700 with 195 @ .500! And with these heads and the upper sheet metal intake you got from me the 2.8 made 173WHP @ 6000rpm

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 10-11-2019).]

82-T/A [At Work] OCT 12, 03:04 AM

quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

From the NY company they list:

6 Cylinder Aluminum EFI Intake (2 pc)- $910

Anyone can port the lower intake. The main restriction is definitely the upper and middle...

EDIT:
YIKES!
6 Cylinder Cast Iron Heads- $1145





Ugh... I know, that is brutal.

The biggest cost is because they have to make their own jig for your engine (in most cases)... though I'd suspect enough people have done this that they probably already have what they need. I'd be interested to know how they can do the work from plenum to cyl heads without damaging the valve seats, unless they expect you to install new ones.

The biggest benefit is the port-matching and eliminating restrictions in the intake. It does "polish" the pathways, but of course the media passes through the path of least resistance... which would be where the air goes, so people shouldn't expect to see an intake where every portion of it is gleaming like a polished gemstone. The areas that really get polished and smoothed to a mirror finish are the areas where there's some type of restriction or resistance... the rest of the intake will at best look "deburred."

Still... seems awesome...
La fiera OCT 12, 04:56 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Ugh... I know, that is brutal.

The biggest cost is because they have to make their own jig for your engine (in most cases)... though I'd suspect enough people have done this that they probably already have what they need. I'd be interested to know how they can do the work from plenum to cyl heads without damaging the valve seats, unless they expect you to install new ones.

The biggest benefit is the port-matching and eliminating restrictions in the intake. It does "polish" the pathways, but of course the media passes through the path of least resistance... which would be where the air goes, so people shouldn't expect to see an intake where every portion of it is gleaming like a polished gemstone. The areas that really get polished and smoothed to a mirror finish are the areas where there's some type of restriction or resistance... the rest of the intake will at best look "deburred."

Still... seems awesome...



Actually the polishing part of the process is what i don't like. Believe it or not polishing a pipe in the inside where air travels will create resistance due to turbulence
of the friction between the mirror-like surface and the air traveling on it. I know it sounds counterintuitive but that's why I'm upgrading my intake and head port to gain more CFM by removing friction.