Check me please! (Page 9/10)
viperine FEB 12, 12:31 AM
I saw that you checked the exhaust for a rats nest. Have you tried starting the car with the oxygen sensor removed? This will reveal a clog that an inspection camera will not.

Our 88 formula got to the point where it would not start from a clogged cat (and subsequently discovered timing being WAY off). You seem to know what you're doing, but just to be clear, multiple marks are supposed to be present on the harmonic balancer, you will want to rely on the largest of these marks to set your timing in diagnostic mode.

Also double or triple check your two injector fuses to ensure they had not immediately blown after replacement.

I'm anxious to see what this car really needs, just like the rest. I am not a master mechanic, but just wanted to offer my view from the outside looking in!

Edit to add, use a test light on both sides of all fuses and be sure they are fully seated. My 87 GT had a fuse or two that just made poor connections and would only work intermittently, required a good cleaning and tweaking so that that terminals accepting fuses would actually be snug on the fuse. This car came to me with 65,000 on the odometer.

[This message has been edited by viperine (edited 02-12-2019).]

damittron FEB 15, 01:26 PM

quote
Originally posted by viperine:

I saw that you checked the exhaust for a rats nest. Have you tried starting the car with the oxygen sensor removed? This will reveal a clog that an inspection camera will not.

Our 88 formula got to the point where it would not start from a clogged cat (and subsequently discovered timing being WAY off). You seem to know what you're doing, but just to be clear, multiple marks are supposed to be present on the harmonic balancer, you will want to rely on the largest of these marks to set your timing in diagnostic mode.

Also double or triple check your two injector fuses to ensure they had not immediately blown after replacement.

I'm anxious to see what this car really needs, just like the rest. I am not a master mechanic, but just wanted to offer my view from the outside looking in!

Edit to add, use a test light on both sides of all fuses and be sure they are fully seated. My 87 GT had a fuse or two that just made poor connections and would only work intermittently, required a good cleaning and tweaking so that that terminals accepting fuses would actually be snug on the fuse. This car came to me with 65,000 on the odometer.





I am not a master mechanic either...obviously!

I have checked my injector fuses and power to the weather 6 wire connector, all is good. I did buy a noid light to check to see if they were being pulsed, but the noid light was bad, so I need to return it for a good one and get a bit more info there.

Timing was done by finding TDC on #1 cylinder, which lined up with the largest of the three marks on the balancer. I will for sure give removal of the oxygen sensor a shot to see what happens. At this point, I would try pretty much any idea people come up with. The car has good fuel pressure, good wet compression, good spark and all checks out with a diagnostic tool (OBDI), so I am at a loss for what could be going on. I have replaced pretty much everything except the MAP sensor and ECM, wihch both check out good with the diagnostic tool, so I didn't replace it.

I promise everyone I will keep up with the post so that when I do find the solution, it is documented...albeit a LONG post!

D.

[This message has been edited by damittron (edited 02-15-2019).]

thesameguy FEB 15, 02:18 PM
Did you ever get the noid light working to verify the injectors are pulsing correctly?

Have you tried running the thing on starter fluid or ether or carb cleaner to try and isolate an ignition problem from a fuel problem?

Are you sure the fuel pump is staying running while you're cranking? I had a Ford malfunction that way once - the pump would prime but fuel pressure would drop off while cranking.

Have you done a volume test from the pump? Run the pump on 12v and collect the output from the FPR (return line) to something you can measure. Had a Saab with crusty fuel lines that had good pressure but no actual volume. Actually, still have that car... I haven't replaced the lines!

Do you have a known good FPR? Have you tried running the pump and varying the vacuum to the FPR to see if fuel pressure changes? Verified that the FPR isn't leaking?

Tried disconnecting the 5th injector (or removing it entirely!) to be sure it isn't leaking or making a mess?

Just some random thoughts that struck me!
David Hambleton FEB 15, 06:51 PM
Twice over several years my 84 SE 4 speed quit without warning while driving. Both times it was getting fuel, spark, and the valve train looked operational through the oil fill hole.
Both times I changed the ECM and the engine started normally. Both times I exchanged the ECM again to ensure the ECM was the issue and it was. Easy fix!
I don't know how the ECM can prevent the engine from starting and I'm not saying the ECM is your issue, but it seems to have been twice for me.
damittron FEB 16, 10:27 AM

quote
Originally posted by thesameguy:

Did you ever get the noid light working to verify the injectors are pulsing correctly?

Have you tried running the thing on starter fluid or ether or carb cleaner to try and isolate an ignition problem from a fuel problem?

Are you sure the fuel pump is staying running while you're cranking? I had a Ford malfunction that way once - the pump would prime but fuel pressure would drop off while cranking.

Have you done a volume test from the pump? Run the pump on 12v and collect the output from the FPR (return line) to something you can measure. Had a Saab with crusty fuel lines that had good pressure but no actual volume. Actually, still have that car... I haven't replaced the lines!

Do you have a known good FPR? Have you tried running the pump and varying the vacuum to the FPR to see if fuel pressure changes? Verified that the FPR isn't leaking?

Tried disconnecting the 5th injector (or removing it entirely!) to be sure it isn't leaking or making a mess?

Just some random thoughts that struck me!



I have not checked with a noid light, the one I bought was bad. I did check for power at the 6 wide connector, I had 12V on pink and pink/white when cranking and when key was in the on position. I also replaced all of the fuel lines, so no problem with those. Last weekend I drained the gas tank again just to be safe, as the gas had been in it for 3 or 4 months. I checked it for rust and debris, nothing in it. I replaced the fuel pump and sending unit before I ever tried to start it. When I drained the tank, I used the ALDL jumpers to run the fuel pump, it pumped 10 gallons of gas in about 3-5 minutes.

I plan to check my timing again (definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results, but I have been known to be a bit crazy!), then I will replace my ECM if timing is solid. The car sat since 1994, so I fully expected to have issues like this. I enjoy the challenge, as well as the friendships it tends to build while screaming "HELP!" on forums! I can't wait to get it running and start making some shows where some of you guys are, it will be great to meet people who love these cars as much as I do!

D.
damittron MAR 02, 05:19 PM
Alright - Are you guys ready for this?

I actually got the mean girl to start today!!!!!!!!!!

So - for the answer to the question on EVERYONE's mind - Yes, I had a baloney sandwich for lunch. Oh, wait, that's the wrong question! Sorry!

<<------SOLUTION------->>

Plugged catalytic converter...and I don't mean it had a little stuff in it and I cleaned it out. This thing was SOLID blocked. I haven't looked inside it yet to see what it is, but I *tried* to pushed about 100 PSI of air through it via the oxygen sensor port and all it would do is build up pressure until I released the trigger on my air hose, then plow the air back out when I removed my handy cloth plug I was using to keep it air tight.

The car is in Florida, so I am not so sure I am going to put one back on it, but I am going to look into it. I believe I will just order the entire exhaust system from the Fiero Store or Rodney and be done with it. Anyway - The car now runs and tomorrow I am going to be making lots of loud exhaust noises while I work on it...hopefully no one calls the police on me.

Thank you ALL for your help and ideas on troubleshooting! The winners of the contest are wgpierce (even though I am not sure it's a mouse nest) and viperine (because he mentioned taking out the O2 sensor and trying to start it). I will take some pictures tomorrow with my scope so I can see what's in that bastard and post them.

D.

[This message has been edited by damittron (edited 03-02-2019).]

wftb MAR 02, 10:05 PM
I had a plugged cat on my 86 gt when I first got it running after 10 years. But it did not prevent it from starting, just caused intermittent bogging down. When I cut the cat off it was full of stuff that looked like a crushed ceramic bee hive. Congrats on getting it running.

[This message has been edited by wftb (edited 03-02-2019).]

Raydar MAR 03, 10:13 AM
Wow!

I'm happy that you got it running. I've never seen a cat block up to the point that it wouldn't run at all.

Ya' learn...

Thanks for sharing.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 03-03-2019).]

damittron MAR 27, 09:58 AM
Got new exhaust from Fiero store. I ended up with the Ocelot exhaust and a Magnaflow cat. Here is a video of the exhaust sound.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...mIKSpV4j24ynDNFaUeik

I need to replace my EGR with the new one I have had sitting around for about 3 months, that should settle the idle hunting I have, it isn't terrible, but it is there, and my OCD won't let me continue with it doing that!

I drove it about 10 miles on Monday evening, it runs great! I can't wait for a nice road trip with it.

D.
viperine MAR 27, 11:57 AM
Glad it's sorted out!!

Give the car some time with joy rides before you mess with much else, considering all the parts you put on it in this process. The idle should hopefully smooth out as the computer relearns with new parts and tinkering.

That said, a solid drive for a while over 40 mph is where the computer smooths it all out.

If the hunting idle persists, just start with timing and make sure it is spot-on.

All the new parts should make this car awesome!