Check me please! (Page 2/10)
damittron DEC 04, 06:59 PM

quote
Originally posted by Dragonfish:




Double checked the plug wires - a perfect match to this picture.
Spoon DEC 04, 11:11 PM
Pull out some of your spark plugs and see if they are wet. You mentioned you put oil in the cylinders. You also could of flooded it with gas or starting fluid.
If plugs are wet, dry them out or better yet replace them. I've had brand new plugs in one of my Pontiacs that I hadn't started for more than 8 years and they went bad. My coil was fine but the spark was yellow across the gap. While they are out pull the ECM & fuel pump fuses. Hold accelerator to floor and crank engine so fresh air will dry thing out in cylinders.

Put sparks plugs back in, and the fuses you removed earlier. Turn key directly to start. Do not stop at run and do not collect $200.00 lol. Just go directly to start. My reason for this is to prevent flooding in the event you have some injectors stuck open. Even if you do it should start if only briefly.

Spoon


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"Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut

damittron DEC 05, 09:49 AM

quote
Originally posted by Spoon:

Pull out some of your spark plugs and see if they are wet. You mentioned you put oil in the cylinders. You also could of flooded it with gas or starting fluid.
If plugs are wet, dry them out or better yet replace them. I've had brand new plugs in one of my Pontiacs that I hadn't started for more than 8 years and they went bad. My coil was fine but the spark was yellow across the gap. While they are out pull the ECM & fuel pump fuses. Hold accelerator to floor and crank engine so fresh air will dry thing out in cylinders.

Put sparks plugs back in, and the fuses you removed earlier. Turn key directly to start. Do not stop at run and do not collect $200.00 lol. Just go directly to start. My reason for this is to prevent flooding in the event you have some injectors stuck open. Even if you do it should start if only briefly.

Spoon





Thanks Spoon. I put new plugs in it as part of the work I have been doing, but plugs are cheap, so I will grab a new set just as a way to be certain they are good. I know where the fuel pump fuse is, but where is the ECM fuse? Is it in the block under the driver's side dash?

[This message has been edited by damittron (edited 12-05-2018).]

damittron DEC 05, 09:57 AM
Nevermind...ECM fuse, first one top left of fuse block...not enough coffee yet!
theogre DEC 05, 02:07 PM
Even if Tach seems to work... Remove the tach filter on the engine when you have ignition problems. Iffy filter can kill the whole system and even wreck the coil, distributor parts and/or ICM.
See my Cave, HE Ignition

Test spark w/ a Spark Tester.
Simple ones are based on a standard plug w/o ground arm to the tip and a clip to ground to engine.

Others are adjustable you adjust a gap to give spark volts. Many have no clue how this works and over gap and burn the wire. Is why GM and other want even Dealer service shops to use like one above.

Never allow a plug wire to run w/o a plug in/on the engine or that tool above. "Testing" from wire tip to ground can burn the wire anywhere easy ground a spark. You many see the spark or not but damage is done and wire is toast. Worse the "short" spark can be inside the coil or dist and fry them.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

damittron DEC 05, 02:38 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Even if Tach seems to work... Remove the tach filter on the engine when you have ignition problems. Iffy filter can kill the whole system and even wreck the coil, distributor parts and/or ICM.
See my Cave, HE Ignition

Test spark w/ a Spark Tester.
Simple ones are based on a standard plug w/o ground arm to the tip and a clip to ground to engine.

Others are adjustable you adjust a gap to give spark volts. Many have no clue how this works and over gap and burn the wire. Is why GM and other want even Dealer service shops to use like one above.

Never allow a plug wire to run w/o a plug in/on the engine or that tool above. "Testing" from wire tip to ground can burn the wire anywhere easy ground a spark. You many see the spark or not but damage is done and wire is toast. Worse the "short" spark can be inside the coil or dist and fry them.




Good stuff! Thanks for the link! I have a tester and will give it a go this afternoon after work. I have the one with the adjustable gap. I thought about removing the tach filter lastnight, but it was getting dark, and my belly was complaining about needing some grub. I will reply back after tonights testing.

D
damittron DEC 05, 07:52 PM
Well, here is the story.

I picked up some new plugs, gapped them and set them aside. I pulled the front plugs and they were all black and had a little fuel on them, but not a whole bunch. I pulled the back plugs and ran cranked the engine for a bit with the fuel pump and ECM fuses out. Let it air out for a bit with a big shop fan blowing across it. I double checked my gaps and installed the new plugs. I got out the trusty spark tester and started with the coil, it was fine. Tested wires and new plugs, all tested good, so I installed the new plugs and buttoned it all up. I disconnected the tach filter and gave it some cranks. It fired, but didn't run. I mucked around with it for about 2 hours checking all my vacuum hoses, wires/connectors and unplugged/plugged back in all the harness connections I could find. Tried it again and it did the same, fired, ran for 2-5 seconds and died. I plugged the tach filter back in and tested again, same result, so that doesn't seem to have had any effect on it.

I noticed the fuel pump priming just fine, but after a couple of starts, it started making a higher pitched noise toward the end of the prime cycle. I won't have time to do anymore work on it until after the new year, but I plan to pull the fuel tank again and check it out good and make sure something isn't plugging the fuel pump up. I also am going to replace the fuel lines and pull the injectors and either have them rebuilt or buy some new ones. I wiil come back after I have done all that and update this thread.

Thanks to everyone for the help and advice, I really appreciate it!

D.

[This message has been edited by damittron (edited 12-05-2018).]

USMUCL DEC 06, 08:27 AM

quote
Originally posted by damittron:

Well, here is the story.

I picked up some new plugs, gapped them and set them aside. I pulled the front plugs and they were all black and had a little fuel on them, but not a whole bunch. I pulled the back plugs and ran cranked the engine for a bit with the fuel pump and ECM fuses out. Let it air out for a bit with a big shop fan blowing across it. I double checked my gaps and installed the new plugs. I got out the trusty spark tester and started with the coil, it was fine. Tested wires and new plugs, all tested good, so I installed the new plugs and buttoned it all up. I disconnected the tach filter and gave it some cranks. It fired, but didn't run. I mucked around with it for about 2 hours checking all my vacuum hoses, wires/connectors and unplugged/plugged back in all the harness connections I could find. Tried it again and it did the same, fired, ran for 2-5 seconds and died. I plugged the tach filter back in and tested again, same result, so that doesn't seem to have had any effect on it.

I noticed the fuel pump priming just fine, but after a couple of starts, it started making a higher pitched noise toward the end of the prime cycle. I won't have time to do anymore work on it until after the new year, but I plan to pull the fuel tank again and check it out good and make sure something isn't plugging the fuel pump up. I also am going to replace the fuel lines and pull the injectors and either have them rebuilt or buy some new ones. I wiil come back after I have done all that and update this thread.

Thanks to everyone for the help and advice, I really appreciate it!

D.




Even before I read this last post, my gut said your problem was fuel related. If the pump sounds like it is priming, perhaps you are losing fuel pressure somewhere along the way. You might want to hook a fuel pressure gauge up to the Schrader valve and see if it is holding good fuel pressure before you go to the trouble of dropping the tank again.

P.S. If you plan to make this car into a driver and not just sit in the garage . . . prepare for much more work ahead. Mine had 9k miles, and I mistakenly thought I was buying a 32 year old "new" car. It has taken a lot of work and $ to get it back to "new." If I was leaving it in the garage, it would have been fine. But, I wanted to drive it occasionally on the weekends during the summer.

[This message has been edited by USMUCL (edited 12-06-2018).]

damittron DEC 06, 08:44 AM

quote
Originally posted by USMUCL:


Even before I read this last post, my gut said your problem was fuel related. If the pump sounds like it is priming, perhaps you are losing fuel pressure somewhere along the way. You might want to hook a fuel pressure gauge up to the Schrader valve and see if it is holding good fuel pressure before you go to the trouble of dropping the tank again.

P.S. If you plan to make this car into a driver and not just sit in the garage . . . prepare for much more work ahead. Mine had 9k miles, and I mistakenly thought I was buying a 32 year old "new" car. It has taken a lot of work and $ to get it back to "new." If I was leaving it in the garage, it would have been fine. But, I wanted to drive it occasionally on the weekends during the summer.




Thanks for chiming in! Yep, I have tested my fuel pressure, it hits between 40-44 PSI and holds until I hit the relief valve on the pressure gauge. First I thought it was bleeding down after about a minute or two, but realized I didn't have the hose attached tightly at the gauge. I left it for about 5 minutes and it only dropped about 3-5 PSI. I know all about being beat to death by old cars! I have several currently, but this is my first "modern" one, as in, it has fuel injection and what passes as a "computer".

I am trying to figure out the fuel and air on it. Once I do some more reading over the holidays, I should have it figured out. My last restore was a 1962 Ford Falcon. It is still reaching into my wallet on a regular basis! HAHA! I tend to restore cars to original and drive them as much as possible. I need to sell a couple of my current stable so I can drive the ones I really like more. I got the car bug about 40 years ago because my dad had it and passed it on. I give him a hard time about it all the time, he says it is better to spend your money on cars instead of booze and women...most of the time.

D.
USMUCL DEC 06, 08:58 AM

quote
Originally posted by damittron:


...he says it is better to spend your money on cars instead of booze and women...most of the time.

D.



Yea, which is more fun depends on my mood. I often take a break from one and concentrate on the others. Then, get an itch and go back, LOL.

Thanks for sharing your experience here. I suspect your issue will be something minor. If you're seeing good fuel pressure, and it holds, I would be hesitant to drop that tank again until I had exhausted all other possibilities.

By the way, they'll be a ton for you to do . . . but change or top off your trans fluid, then look to see if your axle seals are holding. My car didn't lose a drop when I bought it. Then, I changed the trans oil and ended up with two large puddles. At first, I thought the old myth about using synthetic oil on an old car was true -- causes leaks. But, in retrospect, I think the axle seals had already leaked oil down to the level of the axles. So, when I changed and topped off, they immediately began leaking it out again. Even after the seals were replaced, one seal leaked again because of corrosion pitting on the axle. Ended up with one new axle to finally get the issue resolved.

[This message has been edited by USMUCL (edited 12-06-2018).]