Check me please! (Page 1/9)
damittron DEC 04, 01:37 PM
Fuel related - So I chose "General" as the topic...hopefully that catches enough attention.

I have a 1987 GT. It has seen very little time on the road, it has 983 miles on it.

I started doing a refurb on it about 2 months ago, but have been moving slowly. Here is what I have done thus far:

Went through the normal process of replacing the rubber parts, hoses, belts, plug wires, tires, and so on. Once I had rubber bits replaced, I went through the normal process involved in turning over the engine by hand with a little bit of a good llghtweight oil in each cylinder.

I drained the old oil and changed the filter, added new oil in. Put new coil, plugs/wires and rotor also.

I did an electrical check on it and eveyrthing was good, with the exception of the fuel pump. I dropped the tank, replaced the pump and sending unit, replaced the surger properly rated rubber hose and cleaned the tank up before putting it back in. It wasn't really bad, it had some very old fuel in it, but not any sediment to speak of. I also replaced the fuel filter while I was under the car.

I added 5 gallons of gas (87 unleaded) and crossed my fingers and gave it a crank. It **almost** started after about 5 minutes (i primed the fuel pump with the normal 2 seconds on, 10 seconds off with the ignition). For the next couple of hours, I would try to start it on and off, and it would stumble and almost start, but then fail.

I came back here, did some serious searching and manual reading of random posts, then decided I would test fule pressure at the fuel rail, with plans to test by crimping the fuel return to test the fuel pressure regulator if there was any issue at the rail. The pressure at the rail was 40 psi +or- 2-3. Bleed down would occur over about 1.5 minutes to about 8 psi, so no issue with the pump or the regulator...right?

So, my last thought here is this - I need to either purchase new fuel injectors, or take out the old ones and have them refurbed...does this sound correct?

Thanks in advance for any input, I really appreciate it!

D.

[This message has been edited by damittron (edited 12-04-2018).]

edfiero DEC 04, 01:46 PM
I read your post twice but I don't understand how you've come to say its fuel related.
Will it run if spray starter fluid in it?? If not, then I'm not convinced yet its fuel.
Based on the info provided, I don't think you can rule out spark issue or some other electric problem yet, even the ECU.
damittron DEC 04, 01:59 PM

quote
Originally posted by edfiero:

I read your post twice but I don't understand how you've come to say its fuel related.
Will it run if spray starter fluid in it?? If not, then I'm not convinced yet its fuel.
Based on the info provided, I don't think you can rule out spark issue or some other electric problem yet, even the ECU.




No, it will not start when spraying starter fluid in it. I have tested spark, but I am color blind and I have seen several people say the spark should be a certain color, not sure what color mine is. Also, just as an FYI, the Check Engine light comes on, all normal lights come on, the tach shows RPM when cranking and the oil pressure registers when cranking. I actually replaced all fuses as well before taking off on any attempts to start. All of those are tested good.

Is there a specific tool I can use to test spark that isn't dependent on me being able to see blue or some other color? About the ECU - Do you recommend any tests I can perform to check operation? I don't have a scan tool that works with this old of a vehicle, but I can buy one if that is the determinate way to test. Also, I assume ECU=ECM, is that correct?

Thanks for the help!

[This message has been edited by damittron (edited 12-04-2018).]

Gall757 DEC 04, 02:30 PM
A 30 year old car with less than 1000 miles.......the mind runs wild with corrosion possibilities.

If you cannot get it to run with starting fluid, it's not a fuel related problem. If the tach goes up when you crank the starter, it's not a primary ignition problem.

This leaves the secondary ignition. Did you remove and replace the distributor? Is there a physical problem inside the cap? Examine the vacuum lines around the MAP sensor to see if one is split or not attached.

edit: It is very likely that the injectors are stuck or clogged, but that would be a second thing wrong, not the first thing.

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 12-04-2018).]

damittron DEC 04, 02:34 PM

quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

A 30 year old car with less than 1000 miles.......the mind runs wild with corrosion possibilities.

If you cannot get it to run with starting fluid, it's not a fuel related problem. If the tach goes up when you crank the starter, it's not a primary ignition problem.

This leaves the secondary ignition. Did you remove and replace the distributor? Is there a physical problem inside the cap? Examine the vacuum lines around the MAP sensor to see if one is split or not attached.



HAHA! indeed! It was kept in a garage all that time, so it was relatively unscathed. It still smells like a new car in the cabin. I did not remove or replace the distributor, but did replace the cap and rotor. I did check the cap/rotor to make sure everything was properly aligned and not wobbing around in there, not issues there. All vacuum lines are good, checked them all out, no splits or breaks and all attached to proper inlet/outlets.
Gall757 DEC 04, 03:32 PM
plug wires hooked up to the wrong plugs will do what you describe, but it's sort of an embarrassing question to ask....
damittron DEC 04, 03:34 PM

quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

plug wires hooked up to the wrong plugs will do what you describe, but it's sort of an embarrassing question to ask....



I'm not proud! If that is what it is, I will kiss your @ss!!! I assume I can find the spark plug wire diagram in my Chilton or Haynes?

[This message has been edited by damittron (edited 12-04-2018).]

Dragonfish DEC 04, 04:07 PM
Patrick DEC 04, 04:20 PM

quote
Originally posted by damittron:

Is there a specific tool I can use to test spark that isn't dependent on me being able to see blue or some other color?



Use your ears then. A healthy spark will easily "snap" across a 1/4" gap to ground. You can hear it... as well as see it.
damittron DEC 04, 06:57 PM
I went to the garage and changed the ignition module, I was planning on doing that anyway, and figured I should go ahead and do it now to see if it did anything...zero help. I also exchanged the coil I had replaced with a new one and that didi't help either.

I did use the paperclip to the terminals on the ECM interface. It only did a 1-2, or code 12. Nothing else. It still does the same thing, acts like it might start, rumbles a bit and dies. I also double checked the rotor and distro cap while I was at it, nothing wrong with them that I could see. This is getting interesting. Tomorrow I will go over the vacuum lines again to make sure everything is good, but I have done this twice now, so I am not too hopeful that I will find much there.

I also pulled and reseated the main wiring harness interface, no improvement or change after doing that.