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| The LFX engine for a swap?. (Page 2/7) |
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Daryl M
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NOV 18, 03:10 AM
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The down side of going with the automatic transmission is that the ECM, bc and transmission module all need to be reprogrammed to delete things like traction control, ABS and a bunch of other stuff. Using the stock ECM as a stand alone to control the engine is a simpler approach and an F40 from a 2.8l Saab bolts up easily with the Saab clutch.
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Dennis LaGrua
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NOV 18, 11:14 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Daryl M:
The down side of going with the automatic transmission is that the ECM, bc and transmission module all need to be reprogrammed to delete things like traction control, ABS and a bunch of other stuff. Using the stock ECM as a stand alone to control the engine is a simpler approach and an F40 from a 2.8l Saab bolts up easily with the Saab clutch. |
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I will agree that the stick is the easier route to go but all those things you mentioned still need to be deleted from the program. There is a guy on You Tube that does the auto swaps and he's getting the powertrain to run fine, so it is possible if you are a good programmer.. I am considering this swap as most of the swaps that we have done here including myself use older technology engines. The LFX IMO makes the Fiero a more modern runner.
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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE " [This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 11-18-2018).]
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wftb
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NOV 18, 02:38 PM
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HP tuners can solve most of the problems with getting rid of stuff that you are not going to use. But things like ABS,traction control, airbags etc do not have to be tuned out. If you do not connect the sensors required they simply do not work and the warning light comes on. If you are using the donor car's instrument panel that is. The HP tuners setup that I use on my ecotec 2.2 cost 650.00 10 years ago. It was well worth the money and it tunes some Ford and Chrysler products as well.
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Rickady88GT
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NOV 18, 08:20 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by wftb:
HP tuners can solve most of the problems with getting rid of stuff that you are not going to use. But things like ABS,traction control, airbags etc do not have to be tuned out. If you do not connect the sensors required they simply do not work and the warning light comes on. If you are using the donor car's instrument panel that is. The HP tuners setup that I use on my ecotec 2.2 cost 650.00 10 years ago. It was well worth the money and it tunes some Ford and Chrysler products as well.
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Not necessarily. It depends on the manufacturer and how much they want to protect their brand. Some of the functions can be ignored, but in some cases such missing sensor input can't trigger a "limp home mode". I have no idea if GM has locked out all of it's brands from aftermarket reflashing, but it is possible the for example Cadillac ECM's are more secure against aftermarket than a Camaro. BUT the money drives the market, so if the demand is there, the "tuners" will be there to support the market (take your money to the bank).
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FastOwen2XLL
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NOV 18, 09:23 PM
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A quick check on eBay I found a 2015 Buick Lacrosse engine w/harness under 50k miles for $650. Certainly makes the swap tempting.
There are certainly considerable challenges tho. One thing not mentioned is the fuel system. LFX motors are direct-injected. This would require a complete re-engineered fuel system. Not sure about GM, but some manufacturers even use pulse width modulated fuel pumps which would require a modern PCM to control. Likely you would have to transplant the entire EVAP system as well.
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Rickady88GT
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NOV 18, 11:26 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by FastOwen2XLL:
A quick check on eBay I found a 2015 Buick Lacrosse engine w/harness under 50k miles for $650. Certainly makes the swap tempting.
There are certainly considerable challenges tho. One thing not mentioned is the fuel system. LFX motors are direct-injected. This would require a complete re-engineered fuel system. Not sure about GM, but some manufacturers even use pulse width modulated fuel pumps which would require a modern PCM to control. Likely you would have to transplant the entire EVAP system as well. |
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One thong to think about is the health of the top end. GM royaly screwed up with the ventilation system of the heads via the valve covers. Specifically the head under the windshield. It is so poorly vented that it causes heavy baked oil residue to build up under the value cover. This condition has destroyed many engines. If possible, have the seller of the engine remove the valve covers and take pictures of the cams and valve springs. That will give you a good idea of the condition of the engine, more so than just the mileage. Then during your engine swap, install proper valve cover ventilation.
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wftb
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NOV 19, 12:09 AM
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Looks like every recent Cadilac motor can be tuned by HP tuners. Check out the supported vehicles list on their website. Not surprising considering they keep adding more supported vehicles almost every month. For some reason domestic vehicles are easy for companys like HP to hack. Honda for instance can only be hacked by adding piggyback modifiers like Hondata. As far as I know there is no aftermarket tuner that has ever hacked Honda's code.
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Will
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NOV 20, 11:17 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by FastOwen2XLL:
There are certainly considerable challenges tho. One thing not mentioned is the fuel system. LFX motors are direct-injected. This would require a complete re-engineered fuel system. Not sure about GM, but some manufacturers even use pulse width modulated fuel pumps which would require a modern PCM to control. Likely you would have to transplant the entire EVAP system as well. |
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The high pressure pump used for DI is mechanically driven and is internal to the engine. There are no major fuel system changes required. PWM fuel pump outputs have been around for years.
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Joseph Upson
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NOV 20, 07:19 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
One thong to think about is the health of the top end. GM royaly screwed up with the ventilation system of the heads via the valve covers. Specifically the head under the windshield. It is so poorly vented that it causes heavy baked oil residue to build up under the value cover. This condition has destroyed many engines. If possible, have the seller of the engine remove the valve covers and take pictures of the cams and valve springs. That will give you a good idea of the condition of the engine, more so than just the mileage. Then during your engine swap, install proper valve cover ventilation. |
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The LFX shouldn't have a problem with the top end, actually none of the second generation 3.6L motors do except where poor quality oil has been used, or where it has not been changed faithfully. The potential trouble was caused by the PCV system which appears to have been addressed in the LFX. The PCV valve would clog early on which was corrected by changing the size of the metering holes and at some point revamping the system.
The right bank which will be easy to access in the rear of the Fiero, is poorly ventilated and actually not at all because a partition separates the PCV outlet area from the valve area of the head and no air moves over it allowing combustion contaminants more time to settle. You can see in the picture below that the right cylinder head has a slight tan compared to the left, but nothing threatening at all because of 3k mile full synthetic oil changes.
Engines were ruined early on because some motors consumed oil and an engine like that in the hands of an owner that didn't realize they needed to check the oil level routinely, often ended up too many quarts low by the time the oil life monitor came on approaching 12k miles. If you run this motor low on oil, it will not likely run long after you correct the oil level before it comes apart. If the motor is from a car that calls for Full synthetic, there will be nothing unusual under the valve cover.
As for the fuel pump, you'll need to adapt the modular pump, or supply a 60 psi feed to the high pressure pump.
The best source for modification possibilities will be on the Camaro forums dedicated to the 3.6L generation cars. The days of easy swaps are gone, the computer systems are a potential nightmare especially in the Cadillac if you make one little mistake. It will be interesting to see what challenges are encountered during the swap process of these motors into the Fiero. Once successful, you'll have a heck of a performer.
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Raydar
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NOV 21, 07:20 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Joseph Upson:
The LFX shouldn't have a problem with the top end, actually none of the second generation 3.6L motors do except where poor quality oil has been used, or where it has not been changed faithfully.
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What about the timing chain "stretch" (or other) issues. It seemed to be fairly common in the LY7, and other engines of that vintage.
Was it fixed (or band-aided) in the LFX?
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