LK9+F40 (Saab turbo LSJ) swap (Page 1/8)
KillerFrogg MAR 26, 09:36 PM
Finally. It begins. I have had plans to do this swap for a long time and I finally am making it happen.

**If anyone can't see images or any other issues (photos too big or something) let me know**

-Forward-
Bought an '84 after high school for $250, just needing a fuel pump to get it running. After 5-6 years I had rebuilt the duke from the ground up, replaced everything in the suspension, and got everything back to factory new condition or better and had money saved up for a full body panels off paint job.
September or so 2016 I got hit coming home from work. Not a ton of front end damage but more than I was wiling to fix, as it needed to have a new front grafted on from a 2nd car.
Fast forward a year, and an '84 pops up for sale just down the road from me. Paint was recently redone, not perfect but worlds better than the old car. interior was trashed and suspension was sloppy. Front mount battery.
Surprise I now own 2 Fieros. Used the money I had saved to paint the old car just to but one with paint done. The new one had a series 1 SC 3800/auto in it and ehh just not my thing. Makes great noises but that is about it. Who ever did the swap used the wrong whole on the throttle cable end and on the floor in the cabin was only half at the engine xD easy fix but even then meh. There are a lot of things in the swap that are half assed and just don't instill much confidence.
So I stripped the wrecked car. Everything everything in the cabin is moving over, all of the wiring, suspension and other new parts that were on the old car, engine and all so I can get a driving Fiero again.

Fast forward to this last weekend. Found an '07 Saab 9-3 in a junkyard with the engine I wanted, and when I got there was shocked to find it was a factory F40 car. 5 hours of work and $280 the engine and trans are now sitting at home.
Yes. $280 for the turbo Ecotech AND and f40
Also, yes. I put the new engine/trans in the back of my hatchback Subaru.


-The new car


-What's left of the old one


-Twins!


-stripping the old car




-NEW ENGINE =D






It is a bit grimy but should clean up really nice, and I already pulled the harness off so I can start tearing it down. Green paint is the U-Pull's way of marking parts sold as a package for no returns.

[This message has been edited by KillerFrogg (edited 07-02-2018).]

KillerFrogg MAR 26, 10:02 PM
*BONUS* The Fiero wing fits well on BMW E30's

[This message has been edited by KillerFrogg (edited 03-26-2018).]

Gall757 MAR 26, 10:06 PM
Spadesluck MAR 27, 08:43 PM
Very nice, now find me a motor/trans as well! Lol

Watching
KillerFrogg MAR 27, 09:29 PM
Keep an eye out for '07 Saab 9-3's. That is when they went to the 2nd pattern f40 with a slightly more aggressive gear set in them.
The LK9 in the for all years in use are basically the same, with different trim levels getting slightly different turbos. From what I have seen though, again, '07 is the year to look for as they should all have the TD04-14T and are rated for 210hp.
Saab designation for the engine with this turbo is the B207R. Other engines output ranged from 150hp up to the 210 of this one.

The LK9 engine is what GM used for the base of the LSJ super charged unit in the Cobalts. Basically the same from the head down, minor differences in factory bolt on's for the supercharger. Different oil pan, alternator, intake manifold.
The head might have some slight differences in the exhaust ports vs the supercharged version. From what I have seen on Saab/Cobalt forums about 1mm dia. difference, and the bolts that hold the intake on are smaller by a bit in the Saab, probably because they didn't have to hang the supercharger and an intake with an air/water intercooler built in off them.

The biggest functional difference between the LSJ and the LK9 is the ignition system.
The LK9 does NOT have a cam position sensor, and does NOT have a knock sensor.
It uses a special module that does some fancy stuff with Saab only coil packs to measure the electrical conductivity of the atmosphere in the combustion chamber to determine combustion quality. It can not just if the engine is knocking, but exactly what cyl is knocking.
During start up it runs in batch fire/wasted spark and looks for what piston actually ignites first. Once that happens it knows where the cams are and goes to full sequential.

Thankfully the cam sensor housing from the LSJ bolts onto the LK9 with no modifications, but it does take the place of the brake booster helper vacuum pump. This is run by the exhaust cam.
LK9 has a power steering pump that is run from the intake cam. Same deal, the block off plate from the LSJ bolts right up if not using the pump.

I am going to run the setup with a Haltech 1500. Not cheap but it has all the features I want/need.

Major changes I am going to make. I need to rotate the turbo 180* so the cold side is pointing at the back of the engine more convenient to run pipes to and from.
And I am going to use the LSJ intake with integrated air/water intercooler, so I don't have have to make space for an external one.
This will need a custom made low profile 90* throttle body adapter to give the firewall clearance I want, and I plan on using an oval style throttle body ie. Ford Cobra 4.6L. About $100 on ebay.
Spadesluck MAR 28, 12:06 AM
It seems you have given this swap a lot of thought and have done your research for sure. I know very little about the cobalt/Saab motors. How much power are they good for with mods?
KillerFrogg MAR 28, 12:24 AM
Yeah I have a lot of free time at work so i have been able to do a lot of research.

The LK9/LSJ is good for min 350hp with not much more than basic mods. Boost and fuel. Past than upgrade pistons and rods. 450+ builds are almost boring in race cobalts at this point.

I would like to be at 300 hp at the wheel. Really for no reason other than I can. It will live at closet to 225 basically all of the time. If I want more or less I can just set boost levels to match.
thesameguy MAR 29, 12:11 PM
I would pull the head and quadruple check the intake valves, maybe replace them preemptively:

Title:RE-ISSUE: Hard Starting Cold With Engine Misfire and Low Compression, Vehicle Starts and Runs Normally When Hot 2007-11 9-3 B207 & 2011 9-5 A20NFT

Date: 12/17/2013
To: All Saab OSC's/WSP's
From: SPNA Technical Assistance
______________________________________________

MODELS:
2007-2008 Saab 9-3 B207R (This PI does not apply to the B284 engine)
UPDATE: This condition could also occur on 2009-11 B207 or 2011 9-5 A20NFT
CONDITION/CONCERN:
A Technician may comment of hard or no starting when cold. They may also find engine misfires with DTC's P0300, P0301, P0302, p0303 or p0304. The vehicle will start and run normally when hot.
RECOMMENDATIONS/INSTRUCTIONS:
This condition may be caused by a worn intake valve and is typically found on vehicles with 50,000 or more miles. Due to the nature of this issue it can be more frequent in cold climates and could exhibit the condition at a lower mileage; inversely in warmer climates it may occur at a higher mileage.
TAC has found intake valve wear of the valve seat face will cause significant compression loss in cold temperatures that will not be readily apparent when hot.
To properly diagnose this condition perform a cold (after an overnight stay is best) compression and leak down test. As an example, an engine with a 150-175 psi hot cranking compression reading may only show 75 to 90 psi when cold.
Once a Technician has determined he has the above described concern he must initiate a Technical Assistance Center (TAC) case by email at xxxx or by phone at xxxxx prompt #3. TAC will provide the full information on the parts/repair procedure when the case is set.
Parts Required: Inlet valve 2007 to 2011, BioPower 55563529 (8 required)

I don't know if you're aware, but tuning tools for Trionic 8 are available - I'm not sure offhand how you divorce the ECM from the other modules, however. I've been mulling over engine swaps for years and keep coming back to Saab motors because, well, I'm comfortable with them.
KillerFrogg MAR 29, 10:50 PM
I plan on doing some preventive maintenance anyway. Engine is out of the car so no better time and I wasn't able to get the mileage off the car it came out of. Head gasket, possibly a timing set, water pump, normal stuff. I'll do a compression and leak down before hand anyway to know what i'm getting into.
Thanks for the info!

And I have seen that the Saab guys have tuning tools for the T8 computer but the yard I get big parts like this pulls the ECU off the cars before they hit the yard so I didn't get it with the engine. As well the Saab system gets vehicle speed from the ABS sensors on the wheel, not a sender on the engine. From what I have seen they are nigh impossible to get working standalone.

Going with the Cobalt coils and cam sensor also means the parts and are a bit easier to find. Not that the Saab parts are impossible to get. Just more support for the cobalt. Someone pulled the coil off the engine probably a day before I got to it anyway.

I also want to have some extra engine idiot proofing. With the Haltech units I can run a 30psi pressure sensor in the coolant system and have it go into limp mode and turn on the temp idiot light if the pressure spikes (crushed tube) or drops (big leak) before the engine gets hot.
Temp and pressure sensor in the intercooler water loop as well for the same thing and to limit boost if the intercooler can't keep up for what ever reason.
On the fly adjustable boost is fun too.

The computer is at least 6-9 months our anyway. I will be sure to go into full depth with everything that is needed for that when the time comes.
KillerFrogg MAR 29, 11:09 PM
Spent a little time today on the engine. Pulled off the intake parts and vacuum and powersteering units. Up for sale they go. S/C cobalt manifold and S/C cobra throttle body will be here next week so I can start the throttle body adapter.
Also pulled the valve cover. Some one kept up on their oil changes!