87 GT Clutch Issues (Page 1/18)
computer_engineer AUG 31, 02:10 PM
Hello,

I have had some clutch issues recently, and I was hoping someone would have some input on what is most likely happening. I have an '87 GT V6 with a 5 speed tranny. Over the last year or so, the clutch has been slipping. I will engage the clutch (release the clutch pedal), and step on the gas a little and the RPM's will rev a little until the clutch starts to grab and the car gets going. This has gotten a little worse the last few months, but I have not driven it much for that reason. I knew that I would be looking at getting into the clutch and see what was going on. The car only has 50K miles on the original clutch and transmission, so I had some doubt that the clutch was worn out.

In some of the other threads, I have heard of a leaking rear main seal causing contamination on the clutch. I believe my rear main is leaking (drips of oil on the garage floor) , but how likely is contamination the cause of the slipping clutch? And now, today, a new issue. I was getting off the interstate and disengaged the clutch to shift to a lower gear, and I hear and/or felt a "snap" when I was pressing the clutch. Now the clutch will not disengage. I limped it to my office and she's sitting outside my office, and it's owner (me) is fairly depressed and having panic attacks...

On one of the Fiero sites (Fiero Factory???) I also saw a small entry in the clutch diagnosis area where it talked about a plastic part on the clutch arm that can crack and a part can push through resulting in not being able to disengage the clutch. Could this be the new issue I have, or does this not happen on a 87 GT?

I am getting ready to pull the transmission off, and since I am really not in my comfort zone, I am really leaning toward suspending the engine and either tilting or totally removing the cradle. Can anyone offer any advice on this method? I am fairly good with air tools and a socket wrench (replaced the alternator, EGR tube, and some hoses, etc.), but this will be the first time I have ever removed a transmission from an engine. But I have a friend that has offered to help, who used to work on race cars, and has removed and replaced dozens of transmissions and engines, so I have a little less anxiety about doing this. Also, I would like to do this myself, so I can learn to do it...also because I don't like the thought of someone else working on my "baby"...and also because money is tight and I don't think I could afford to have a mechanic work on it.

Thoughts? Advice? Suggestions? Prayers

Thanks

[This message has been edited by computer_engineer (edited 12-22-2015).]

dobey AUG 31, 02:31 PM
To remove the transmission and leave the engine attached to the cradle, the engine will need to be supported. If the cradle stays in the car, it should be supported from the top.

If any oil from a rear main seel leak got onto the clutch, then yes, it will damage the clutch and cause slipping.

I don't know what "snap" sound you actually heard, but it could have also been the clutch fork breaking, or the slave seal popping. Squeeze the rubber sleeve around the slave cylinder arm, and if it feels like it's full of liquid, the slave probably popped and you need to rebuild or replace it. Also check that your clutch pedal is not bent. Check to see if you can move the fork easily by hand. Those should help diagnose some of the issues.
fierofool AUG 31, 02:33 PM
You definitely need to replace the clutch and pressure plate. Don't continue driving it like this because you will also burn the flywheel enough to require replacing it, too. Maybe at this point you can only have the flywheel turned or Blanchard Ground would be even better. Replace the clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing while you're in there. My recommendation is a Luk clutch package usually available at Pep Boys.
imacflier AUG 31, 02:36 PM
If you go here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/088599.html

You will see exactly what is required to remove the engine and you can judge for yourself whether or not it is out of your comfort range!

I believe with a lil help from your friends you and darn near anyone can do it successfully.

GL, Larry
MadProfessor8138 AUG 31, 10:09 PM
Unfortunately,I can't post a link due to using my iPhone right now.....
Look in the archives for (GT clutch replacement ) posted by boysatt.
You don't need to remove fuel lines,cooling lines or wiring harness to get your clutch out.
Drop the rear cradle bolts and leave the front bolts alone.....follow his procedure and you can slide the tranny out through the drivers side when the rear of the cradle comes down.
I can drop the rear of the cradle,pull the tranny,replace the clutch and have it all back together running in about 10 hours by myself....I just did it yesterday due to a bad shift fork.
Jason88Notchie SEP 01, 01:08 PM

quote
Originally posted by dobey:

To remove the transmission and leave the engine attached to the cradle, the engine will need to be supported. If the cradle stays in the car, it should be supported from the top.

If any oil from a rear main seel leak got onto the clutch, then yes, it will damage the clutch and cause slipping.

I don't know what "snap" sound you actually heard, but it could have also been the clutch fork breaking, or the slave seal popping. Squeeze the rubber sleeve around the slave cylinder arm, and if it feels like it's full of liquid, the slave probably popped and you need to rebuild or replace it. Also check that your clutch pedal is not bent. Check to see if you can move the fork easily by hand. Those should help diagnose some of the issues.



This is exactly how I did mine. Wasn't hard. Just time consuming. The biggest PITA was the rear cradle bolts. The frame nuts, or whatever you call those, that are welded inside the frame broke loose due to rust. BOTH OF THEM. Took some effort but I got them out.

[This message has been edited by Jason88Notchie (edited 09-01-2015).]

MadProfessor8138 SEP 01, 10:19 PM
My rear cradle bolts did the same thing......
I cut the frame open and peeled the flap down....then I broke the cage off of the nuts and used a pipe wrench to hold the nut while I broke the bolt loose.
Finished the repairs on my clutch and bolted the cradle back into position.
Then I stuck my welder in there and welded the nuts to the frame now that everything was in proper position.
Bent the frame back up and welded it shut then shot a coating of undercoating spray.....can't even tell it was done.
I've had to drop my cradle again since welding the nuts and didn't have any issues.

Rodney Dickman offers a kit to repair the nut and cage assembly if you don't want to weld the nuts to the frame.....

[This message has been edited by MadProfessor8138 (edited 09-01-2015).]

MadProfessor8138 SEP 01, 10:27 PM
It's much easier to drop the rear of the cradle and slide the tranny out then to support the engine from the top and try to slide it out.
Messing with the rear cradle bolts can be a pain due to the frame nuts issue....unless you're lucky or you've already fixed that problem.
But having a front cradle bolt fighting you is a whole other story....that's a pain in the *ss and it generally doesn't end well.
For me....just dropping the rear of the cradle and leaving the front bolts alone is the quickest and easiest way.
Just use two bolts that have had the heads cut off to slide tranny back into position when putting it back together.
I've had to do it a few times now and it has worked out good for me using this method.
computer_engineer SEP 02, 12:06 AM

quote
Originally posted by MadProfessor8138:

Unfortunately,I can't post a link due to using my iPhone right now.....
Look in the archives for (GT clutch replacement ) posted by boysatt.



I believe I found the posting.

GT Clutch Replacement by Boysatt

I will read through with my best attention to detail. I just had the tow truck drop off the car into my garage, so it is time to get to work. Should I order a clutch kit now, or is it best to see what I have in there first before I get parts? The clutch master and slave cylinders seem to be moving fine, but the clutch is not engaged at all now, I am now worried what I will find in there. I am hoping for a bad TOB, but I assume it could be a broken clutch fork. But I have also heard that bad clutch forks are rare.

Is it difficult to find a replacement clutch/shift fork? How hard are they to replace?

I may also find a leaky rear main seal as the culprit that started all of this. Will I be able to replace it without pulling the motor all the way out?

Thanks again for all the good information.
MadProfessor8138 SEP 02, 08:37 AM
I bought my car knowing that the clutch had an issue.
When I dropped the tranny I found that the shift fork shaft was seized in the bushings.
With a little effort and patience I got the shaft broke loose and moving freely with no problems.
I replaced the clutch anyways and put everything back together.
The car ran great until 850.9 miles later......the clutch would not engage smoothly.
Pulled everything apart for the second time and found that one of the fingers on the shift fork had slipped behind the throw out bearing causing it to bind.
After inspecting the shift fork shaft I noticed wear on the fingers.
I should have replaced it all while I had it torn apart the first time.

My advice is this: while you have everything apart,replace the clutch,shift fork shaft and its bushings.
The clutch is around $100,shift fork shaft and bushings from The Fiero Store is around $65 and the tool to replace the bushings from Rodney Dickman is $14.
So......for less than $200 you can have your issue resolved and enjoy driving your car.
Replace it all at one time unless you just like dropping your cradle.