Pennock's Fiero Forum on Facebook (Page 1/6)
Cliff Pennock FEB 21, 02:53 AM
I feel it has become necessary to create this post since there seems to be a lot of confusion whether or not PFF on FB is "official" or not. Let me make that clear once and for all.

No it is not.

Up until a few months ago, I wasn't even aware it existed. I'm not sure exactly how I found out it did. Either I stumbled upon it or because one of its moderators contacted me due to a discussion that was going on there. The discussion of course being that people thought they were leeching of my name. Either way, I was contacted a few months ago to give my 2c. I joined, and they even made me "honorary moderator" - which I didn't ask for nor really wanted. But it was "to shut them up" as they said. I was asked however to not actually moderate and leave the moderating to them.

When asked for my opinion, I told them the truth. That I really don't mind much people using the PFF name (since people have been making PFF merchandise for ages and I never had any problems with that either), but that it would have been nice if they asked me first. And I left it at that. I never visit the FB page so I truly have no idea what is going on there.

But today, again my attention was directed to the FB page. Someone asking if PFF on FB was "official". Their answer was "Yes it is! Cliff Pennock is even a moderator here!". Well, that went down the wrong way with me. Because it isn't and has never been, and they are now using the fact they made me a moderator (without me actually wanting that, and even asking me not to moderate even though I have the title) as "proof" it's an official PFF page.

Also, they stated that the reason the FB page was created, was because not everybody wants to create a gmail account just for joining PFF. They are referring to the fact that a long time ago it was indeed a requirement to register with a "real" email address. I have no idea how long ago the facebook page was created, but "real email addresses" haven't been a requirement on PFF anymore for at least ten years. So giving the impression you can't join PFF because of that, is false info.

All that said, do I mind PFF on FB exists? No I don't. I can't stress that enough. I understand the need for a Fiero community on FB. Especially younger people are much more into social media and they feel more comfortable there. And in the end, all I really care about is the preservation of the Fiero. And the more resources available to that end, the better. But I do mind taken advantage off. I do not like the fact they made me a moderator and using that as "proof" PFF on FB is official. The only thing it is proof of, is that I don't mind PFF on FB exists and I even don't mind (much) they are using my name. It is not proof it is official, nor is it proof I'm actually a moderator there. And to prevent further confusion, I have revoked my membership there and with it my moderator status.

I don't want this to turn into a feud between PFF members and the members of the FB group. I think it's wonderful a Fiero FB group exists. Being a member here doesn't mean you don't approve of the FB group, just as being a member on the FB group, doesn't mean you don't like or don't support the real PFF. If you have a valid reason not wanting to use either one (you don't like forums, or you don't like FB), then fine, but please, do not stop visiting either one because it's not "appropriate".

The only reason I revoked my membership is to prevent the confusion. Not because I don't approve of the FB group's existence. So be a member on both places. The two can coexist perfectly.
AusFiero FEB 21, 03:43 AM
Ask them nicely to rename it so it is not related to you or here. If they don't, claim ownership through facebook.
Cliff Pennock FEB 21, 05:08 AM
I don't mind them using my name. Just don't tell people it's a "sister" site or it's an "official PFF site" when it's not.
AusFiero FEB 21, 05:11 AM
You are too kind Cliff. Hammer them.
Mike in Sydney FEB 21, 07:22 AM
Cliff, I've learned that the only thing a person really owns is their name and reputation. That said, let me play the devil's advocate. How would you feel if the fakebook PFF sullied your name, reputation, and what you've built? They've already demonstrated what they are by claiming to be the "official" PFF. I agree with Aus. Drop the hammer on these folks and make them rename their forum.

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Mike in Sydney

Thunderstruck GT FEB 21, 08:39 AM

quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:

I don't mind them using my name. Just don't tell people it's a "sister" site or it's an "official PFF site" when it's not.



Others don't have to mention a word. Anyone would automatically assume.

My strong suggestion to you is to claim it or have it shut down.

When it comes to business, nice guys always get the shaft.

[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 02-21-2020).]

PK FEB 21, 08:57 AM
I had/have a similar issue, someone nabbed our very unusual mcycle forum name and set it up on faceache with our name, with the knowledge that this would get them great attention.

It is now renamed as "friends of unusual forum name". Which is probably not an accurate description of somewhere that steals your name. :0) Like Cliff I'm not overly bothered but unlike Cliff our website is not a source of income. If the intention was to make money from it I would probably be (even less) impressed.

We do get people posting on the forum that they have not had a response from us after posting on "our" Facebook page. So it for sure causes some degree of confuzzlement.

I'm not sure if faceache would actually do oubt if cliff did protest.

[This message has been edited by PK (edited 02-21-2020).]

Vicophine FEB 21, 09:13 AM
Cliff, why not try and just regain the moderator status and de-facto run that group? Or appoint people from this forum to run it? As a moderator you would have that ability.
Cliff Pennock FEB 21, 09:43 AM
Well, I´m not even a moderator here.

In all seriousness, I hate moderating. That's why I always wanted PFF to be a self moderating forum. I have given the members several tools to do just that. I only step in when it's absolutely necessary. But I want PFF to be a forum where nobody "fears the moderator". A place where you can call the moderator a "toad licking monkey waxer" and get banned for it - not because you called the moderator a toad licking monkey waxer, but because it's in the forum rules you can't call anyone a toad licking monkey waxer.

In fact, it's the reason I started PFF in the first place. Because I hated the over-moderated mailings lists that existed in that time where the moderators considered themselves semi-gods. I truly hated that.
Patrick FEB 21, 12:51 PM

quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:

In all seriousness, I hate moderating. That's why I always wanted PFF to be a self moderating forum. I have given the members several tools to do just that.



And it's not very effective. Sorry Cliff, I've been here a long time and I really appreciate what you've built here... but a "self-moderating forum" is nowhere near ideal. I've seen so many quality people leave PFF forever out of absolute disgust with the ongoing nonsense which takes place here. Yes, it mostly occurs in O/T, but it occasionally spills over into the tech areas as well. I don't mean to derail this thread, but you brought up "moderating", and I felt something needed to be stated for the record.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 02-22-2020).]