Sequential Turn Signals (Page 1/2)
Cokeologist JUL 06, 09:55 PM
A couple of years ago, I installed the WebElectric Fiero sequential turn signal system (http://www.webelectricproducts.com/) in my Fiero, and it worked great. A couple of months ago I purchased some LEDs to replace the 2057 incandescent bulbs, and after putting in the LEDs and the replacement LED flasher module, the sequential turn signals no longer sequence properly (the LEDs do sequence, but the timing is off and is irregular). My resto shop tried to contact the WebElectric folks for assistance with troubleshooting, but apparently the WebElectric folks weren't willing to work with the guys at my resto shop. Perhaps I purchased bad LEDs...at this point I have reinstalled the normal 2057 bulbs and the sequential is working correctly again; however I would certainly prefer to be able to use the brighter LEDs. If anyone has any suggestions I would be appreciative.
steve308 JUL 07, 01:38 PM
Don't know if it matters but did you also install LED's on the front? I know my standard turn signals didn't function correctly until I also changed the fronts to LED's.
IMSA GT JUL 07, 01:39 PM
From their QA section. The last sentence is the most important.

Q: Will the sequencers work with aftermarket LED lights?

A: Yes, but...

There are two issues with LED lamps that are used for turn signals. First, since they draw much less current than incandescent light bulbs, the turn signal flasher may not function correctly. A thermal flasher may not get hot enough to cycle, and electronic flashers might think there is a burned out bulb (not enough current flowing) and flash at twice the rate.

You may be able to modify your flasher to work with LEDs, or maybe find a flasher that is not load dependent. However, if you have a car with a special flasher (like a Mustang, for instance), you will have to install a "dummy load" onto at least one of the LED turn signal lamps, most likely the inside one. A dummy load is available from http://www.watsons-streetworks.com.

The other problem is the LED timing. Depending on the number of LEDs in the cluster, or what type of driver is built into it, they can be erratic about sequencing. Usually, they can be stabilized by installing a 1K ohm, 1/2 watt resistor (Radio Shack Cat #271-1118) or equivalent, across each offending LED

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 07-07-2019).]

Dave E Bouy JUL 10, 08:09 PM
I had used the WebElectric setup on a custom 4 tail/brake lightsystem per side on an 85 GT I used to own. I had a similar experience. They initially worked fine then one day the timing between the left and right sides became different. I had only had them for a short time. I sent WebElectric a video of the weirdness and they simply replaced the one that was obviously slower than normal.
cvxjet JUL 10, 10:22 PM
I have a half-azz sequential system....I converted my 85 Se V6 to 86-88 GT rear quarters/tail lights...I used the original 1985 tail light harness (I don't like yellow rear turn indicators!)...I was testing some LED bulbs and noticed that they switch on and off much faster than the incandescents..... So I installed one LED on each side inboard and one incandescent outboard and when I hit the turn signal the Inner LED flashes first, then the outer incandescent flashes- Of course, we are only talking 2 bulbs for each side- and when I hit the brakes it flashes outward on both sides, so it's not perfect...But it looks kind of neat......
liv4God JUL 11, 01:41 AM
I made some sequentials for my car which are not affected by the bulb type, documented in this thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/096492.html
Sorry I don't have a solution for your issue other than a full diy approach.
dremu JUL 11, 01:59 PM

quote
Originally posted by liv4God:

I made some sequentials for my car which are not affected by the bulb type, documented in this thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/096492.html
Sorry I don't have a solution for your issue other than a full diy approach.



How'd I miss that there were not one, but TWO Fieros with sequential turns at the wine country run? Shame on me!

Mine are four segments -- and yes, I did it just to anger Ogre. So very illegal

https://youtu.be/rLDPXpvjWEU

Note that I didn't capture the full blink pattern. It starts with all four segments on, just like the factory turn, and then begins the sequential blink you see here.

As with yours, it's Arduino driven. In this case, I used MOSFETs instead of relays. This was on the premise that I distrust mechanical pieces to fail, especially in locations with high vibration like the trunk.

https://youtu.be/v_2u5Uy4yrU

-- A

[This message has been edited by dremu (edited 07-11-2019).]

tshark JUL 11, 08:47 PM

quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

I have a half-azz sequential system....I converted my 85 Se V6 to 86-88 GT rear quarters/tail lights...I used the original 1985 tail light harness (I don't like yellow rear turn indicators!)...I was testing some LED bulbs and noticed that they switch on and off much faster than the incandescents..... So I installed one LED on each side inboard and one incandescent outboard and when I hit the turn signal the Inner LED flashes first, then the outer incandescent flashes- Of course, we are only talking 2 bulbs for each side- and when I hit the brakes it flashes outward on both sides, so it's not perfect...But it looks kind of neat......



That is an interesting thought, and perhaps the most simple method.

On the newer vehicles there are blinkers that are wired together on the front and side, but blink alternately. I'm no electronics person, but a similar simple theory could possibly be used. Apparently, this blinker method relies on each bulb grounding the other. Perhaps the best results for this would be to wire every other buld together in just 2 sets, but I suspect there could be a better solution, using this method.
rogergarrison JUL 13, 07:25 PM
Theres always some reason to stay with original technology. It worked with regular bulbs so why mess with it...JMO. Just walking thru just about any store, I can find a 'new' or 'improved' product thats not worth a crap. Thats everything from cars to soap. 'New' DAP contact cement, Coke/Pepsi, gasoline, Dawn dish soap are all just a drop in the bucket of inferior stuff Ive personally run through. I still have 60 watt incandescent lights in my house because new ones ive tried burned out in a week or two. LEDs are great if the product was designed for them in the first place. Wiring my trailer with incandescent lights to my motorhome was easy as pie (4 wires...boom), wiring it to the minivan is a royal pita, even have to run a power wire all the way up to the battery.
theogre JUL 15, 02:33 AM
WEP and others are not design to work w/ LEDs. Plus Many LED "bulbs" have different wiring so some may work and others don't.

Brighter red taillights... use 2357. Turns on faster and a bit bright w/o painting a target on your back.
Faster turn on is easy to see.
Red lens block most white light so you can't just go by publish Lumen data.
Even that often require electronic flasher can replacement because draws more power.
See my Cave, Lighbulbs


quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:
Theres always some reason to stay with original technology. It worked with regular bulbs so why mess with it...JMO. Just walking thru just about any store, I can find a 'new' or 'improved' product thats not worth a crap. Thats everything from cars to soap. 'New' DAP contact cement, Coke/Pepsi, gasoline, Dawn dish soap are all just a drop in the bucket of inferior stuff Ive personally run through. I still have 60 watt incandescent lights in my house because new ones ive tried burned out in a week or two. LEDs are great if the product was designed for them in the first place. Wiring my trailer with incandescent lights to my motorhome was easy as pie (4 wires...boom), wiring it to the minivan is a royal pita, even have to run a power wire all the way up to the battery.

Yup, LED to replace Tungsten have many problems even if you ignore is illegal for cars. Even Sylvania is push them and hide behind "off road use only" BS. Even if you have good LED "Bulbs" and most don't... LEDs hate Heat and often won't last long. Bright LED generate heat they must dump and many fixtures get hot and/or no air to cool them. Good luck w/ "Canbus" LED crap... they can fry themselves or even cause a fire.

Bright or Dim taillight lights screams Ticket Me to cops anywhere you drive. Worse Most White LED are wrong Color Temp etc and red looks pink or purple.
Other examples:
Many Years ago was a big fad to put purple "gems" in the taillight lenses.
More recent a lot put "glow lamps" under the cars and worse.
Most places both are illegal too and you fail inspections and cops stop many fools following these fads too. Several towns near me make big $ stopped cars w/ light issues, lowered cars, etc. That before they go fishing for other problems they write tickets w/ Big Fines and Point or even arrest you. Or Cities like Philly's "Live Stop" that can impound the vehicle very easy... "Oh, So you can't find your current Insurance Card? You'll need other transport because I'm calling a tow truck." Expect to pay traffic fines and impound fees costing Hundreds of $ at minimum.

LED replacements for home use have problems too. some common ones...
Most hate enclose fixtures because can't dump heat generated by the LED and their power supply.
Most can't dim right or not at all even when package say they will.
If you have motion lights, auto night lights, etc, most LEDs can't work with them.
Many LEDs, like Most CFLs and some standard FL, have a delay to light up. This is mostly very annoying but can be a dangerous problem for somethings like stairways. (Ignoring Most CFL and Standard Tubes hate cold places < ~40°F and light very slow or simply won't light.)

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave