LS4-F23 swap, Grin Reaper redux (Page 1/6)
motoracer838 MAY 29, 11:57 PM
"That ain't no Northstar"...
I decided that this is such a hard right turn from where the project was going that it needed a new thread...
IMG_20180529_194728449 by Joseph Martin, on Flickr
Even when I resumed work on this car finally, I wasn't feeling it, I have been struggling with what to do about this project for a long time. Made the decision last Friday to "ditch the bit_h and make the switch" (Wish I had done it on Thursday, could have worked on it all weekend...)
IMG_20180529_203249138 by Joseph Martin, on Flickr
All the work I did to find the best spot for the Northstar paid off for the first fit of the LS4. The Mad Scientist is pleased...
IMG_20180529_203317593 by Joseph Martin, on Flickr
IMG_20180529_203303247 by Joseph Martin, on Flickr
It seems small after having stuffed a Northstar in...

Sometimes you just have to "blow up" a project, Joe
KissMySSFiero MAY 30, 08:31 AM
I just scanned your other thread.
what's your plan for the flywheel? Are you just going to redrill the Northstart wheel? I'm guessing by the fact that you have that spacer plate that will be your approach.
I'm sort of in the process of the same swap. But I went back to school and I'm a year out from graduating. Plus we just had our first child. So no time or money.

I do know that FieroGuru's starter bracket works well with the F23. I used it with the flexplate to get compression readings. Only to find a low cylinder that I can only hope is a bad DOD lifter. That brought me to a halt.

I did notice there will be clearance issues with the axle just like the northstar. But it does look like there's enough meat to clearance. I don't know what would be a safe clearance is for a CV boot clamp.

How much space is there on the transmission end? Looks like quite a bit on the crank pulley side.

I need to get motivated to get back to mine.

------------------
SSFiero@Aol.com

motoracer838 MAY 30, 10:14 AM
Plenty of room...
IMG_20180530_073033069 by Joseph Martin, on Flickr
Jeez, I need to do some housekeeping...
Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 05-30-2018).]

motoracer838 MAY 30, 05:40 PM

quote
Originally posted by KissMySSFiero:

I just scanned your other thread.
what's your plan for the flywheel? Are you just going to redrill the Northstart wheel? I'm guessing by the fact that you have that spacer plate that will be your approach.
I'm sort of in the process of the same swap. But I went back to school and I'm a year out from graduating. Plus we just had our first child. So no time or money.

I do know that FieroGuru's starter bracket works well with the F23. I used it with the flexplate to get compression readings. Only to find a low cylinder that I can only hope is a bad DOD lifter. That brought me to a halt.

I did notice there will be clearance issues with the axle just like the northstar. But it does look like there's enough meat to clearance. I don't know what would be a safe clearance is for a CV boot clamp.

How much space is there on the transmission end? Looks like quite a bit on the crank pulley side.

I need to get motivated to get back to mine.





At this point I do see reworking the flywheel for the LS4, (it's weird how neat it is to say LS4 with regards to my car... Makes me smile.)
An intermediate shaft is the only way to do this, Less than zero room for a tripot at the trans, the LS engine is even wider than the Northstar.
RCR MAY 30, 08:31 PM
Good transition, Joe.


Bob
motoracer838 MAY 31, 10:47 PM

quote
Originally posted by RCR:

Good transition, Joe.


Bob



Thanks Bob, I've been fighting against the idea of "being too deep in to change course"... This mindset has lead me down the rabbit hole enough to see the trap. Once I saw how cheaply I could get an LS4, there was no point doing anything but pulling the Northstar, for the first time in a long time I want to deal with this car...

Back when I started the project, it kinda made sense, the nstar doesn't make a lot of lowend torque, so it would play nice with the 282 Getrag, the more I read other nstar builds and the issues the nstar became famous for put a hurt in my desire to work on it... When vintage motocross came along, it was all too easy to push it to the corner and basically forget about it... Then the Indy Hauler, then the KZ1100 project, you get the idea...

Today was another good day...
IMG_20180531_110835771 by Joseph Martin, on Flickr
Picked up an LS6 intake.
After working with the nstar in there, I'm amazed at how much room I have, It used to be a fight for every fraction of an inch...
Drive by cable throttle body, LS7 exhaust manifolds, and LS3 cam, on the way. Coming to grip with the idea that I had to spend more money going this way, was the hardest part... (eased a bit by knowing that the nstar was going to need at least another $1,600 when I crack it open.)
IMG_20180531_183439174 by Joseph Martin, on Flickr
Coming soon, from Mad Scientist Labs, (muwhahahahaha) The handy dandy engine leveling kit.
When I originally did the nstar I spent hours working on getting the engine level on the cradle, once in the car, it just didn't look right. For my first fit of the LS4I, I sat the engine/trans combo on the new trans mounts and the right end of the engine on a 3/4" block of wood to get it in the car, once in the car I built the adjusters pulled the block of wood then by turning the trunbuckles I lowered the right end until it "looked right". Now I'll fab up some temporary stands farther out of the way of where I need to work to build all the bracketry, mounts, ect...
IMG_20180530_073033069 by Joseph Martin, on Flickr
After seeing how it looks in place, I think while it's out, I'm going to move the drivetrain to the left using up some of this room so I can get a longer driveshaft on the right, it's looking a bit tight on the right and if I'm lucky, be able to use the same shaft on both sides.

Cheers Beers n Gearz, Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 06-01-2018).]

KissMySSFiero JUN 01, 08:29 PM

quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:

An intermediate shaft is the only way to do this, Less than zero room for a tripot at the trans, the LS engine is even wider than the Northstar.



How much room would be needed? I've clearance mine and I'm getting about 0.160" by grinding back to where the oil pan gasket was recessed. I'm sure I took some out of the gasket, but minimal. I won't do more until I pull the pan to see how much meet is there. It looks like a lot was removed, but I removed mostly the rough casting. The 0.160" is at the cv boot band. I also tapped it a few times at the crimp so I would be closer to flush. Depending on how thick the oil pan flange is, I think I could get 1/4" of clearance pretty safely. But, is that enough?





KissMySSFiero JUN 01, 08:40 PM

quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:

Picked up an LS6 intake.
.
Drive by cable throttle body, LS7 exhaust manifolds, and LS3 cam, on the way.
..
.
.
Cheers Beers n Gearz, Joe




Sounds like a similar set up to mine. What ECM are you running with the DBC throttle body? Is there an ecm that does DBC and the 2 wire knock sensors that the LS4 has? I was going to run a truck ECM(plentiful/cheap). But I think I would have to use the single wire knock sensor moved from the valley to the side of the block.

------------------
SSFiero@Aol.com

motoracer838 JUN 01, 08:53 PM

quote
Originally posted by KissMySSFiero:


How much room would be needed?








I honestly didn't think a cv would fit in there, looks like you have enough clearance.
Given the amount of hp and torque these engines can make without trying, I'm not sure I'd want to run a long/short axle combo. I think there is the potential for some pretty hairy torque steer... I just excorsized some nasty handling traits from one car, don't want to build some into another...

Joe
motoracer838 JUN 01, 09:06 PM
Trial fit #2
IMG_20180601_175220930 by Joseph Martin, on Flickr
Moved the package over about 7/8", needed to "clearance" the strut tower a bit to clear the shift bracket, I think this will be it's final location.
IMG_20180601_175201262 by Joseph Martin, on Flickr
Hell, with a slight notch, there's room for a blower belt... not likely... I do see the potential for a manifold and cam upgrade somewhere down the road, LS6 intake and tb along with an LS3 cam will "leave some on the table".
IMG_20180601_180742231 by Joseph Martin, on Flickr
For the hell of it I thought I'd toss on a Trailblazer SS intake, didn't think it'd fit, I hate when I'm right...
Between Ebay and Summit it's gonna' be Christmas in June next week...

When things go wrong,
don't follow them... Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 06-01-2018).]