Indy Headlight - Help Needed! (Page 1/4)
davikan AUG 10, 12:48 AM
Hi everyone -

I need to ask for help - either in the form of the right thread to consult, or in the form of advice here.

The right headlight on my Indy stopped going up/down consistently, so naturally, I ordered a rebuild kit from Rodney Dickman. I installed his kits in my 88 GT back in 2005, and they've worked perfectly ever since.

After installation, the Indy's headlight worked, but only sluggishly. Sometimes, it would take about 10 seconds for it to pop up. Today, it stopped going up at all. To add insult to injury, today is also the day that the LEFT headlight started acting up. I popped the hood to lower the left light, and found that the knob on the top of the right motor had MELTED ITSELF FREE of the motor housing. Here's a picture.

It seems as if the motor had just kept spinning, eventually causing the knob to break/melt off. I guess I didn't hear it with the engine running? What the heck did I do wrong when installing the rebuild kit? It seemed so straightforward on my GT!

PLEASE HELP!!!

Thanks,
David


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[This message has been edited by davikan (edited 08-10-2017).]

theogre AUG 10, 01:24 AM
something went wrong "rebuilding" it and motor heated up and is died.

Can be problem with limit switch(es), bad brushes, etc. Problem is Melting the knob then likely others parts are dead too and not a easy way to find the root cause. Melting the knob is a symptom for motor over heating but that can be a symptom too.

Motor is toast and likely have shorted windings etc in the motor itself. You might try to fix it and may seems to work after but can be big problems again, the motor and related parts can even catch fire.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 08-10-2017).]

E.Furgal AUG 10, 02:17 AM
either the limit switch was put in wrong or broke or the gear fell off a shaft and the motor never got to the limit switch..

one of the reasons g.m. used the nylon gears..
good thing is iirc the 1982-84 t/a uses the same motor..

fierofool AUG 10, 08:39 AM
I agree that the motor is toast. I've had one that burned badly enough that even the case was badly distorted. It's possible that they can even start a fire.

Respectively, the limit switch can't be installed incorrectly. There's only one way it will fit.

If you did rebuild the left motor (I didn't see any mention that you did), I have some good motors. I can either send you a motor that needs the gear replaced, or I can install a good used plastic gear, or even Rodney's gears, if you want. I can also send you a good motor and a good used plastic gear that you can use to rebuild it.

Open up the motor and see if the brushes are still on the limit switch. I also have several good limit switches available.
davikan AUG 12, 03:03 PM

quote
Originally posted by fierofool:
If you did rebuild the left motor (I didn't see any mention that you did), I have some good motors. I can either send you a motor that needs the gear replaced, or I can install a good used plastic gear, or even Rodney's gears, if you want. I can also send you a good motor and a good used plastic gear that you can use to rebuild it.

Open up the motor and see if the brushes are still on the limit switch. I also have several good limit switches available.



Thanks, fierofool, for listing those options. My Indy has just over 4,500 miles on her, and is completely stock except for tires, battery, and A/C refrigerant retrofit. I'm pretty obsessive about keeping things stock on both my Fieros, so I'm loathe to suggest this, but: what do you think about converting my Indy's headlights over to the '88 design? Your comment about a headlight motor potentially starting a fire scares me!

If that's not a good idea, I honestly don't know what to think about the other options. I have a second metal gear kit from Rodney (no, I haven't done anything to the left headlight yet), but your comments make me think that plastic gears are better in an Indy?

Would you (or anyone else) care to offer an opinion?

THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE!

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theogre AUG 12, 06:32 PM
upgrade to Gen2 motor See my Cave, Gen 2 HL Motor links at bottom.
If Gen2 motors are bad, get New motors from Cardone and be done. Fixing them is often not easy as my cave and others said. Why I and other use Cardone units now.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 08-12-2017).]

fierofool AUG 12, 08:23 PM

quote
Originally posted by davikan:


Thanks, fierofool, for listing those options. My Indy has just over 4,500 miles on her, and is completely stock except for tires, battery, and A/C refrigerant retrofit. I'm pretty obsessive about keeping things stock on both my Fieros, so I'm loathe to suggest this, but: what do you think about converting my Indy's headlights over to the '88 design? Your comment about a headlight motor potentially starting a fire scares me!

If that's not a good idea, I honestly don't know what to think about the other options. I have a second metal gear kit from Rodney (no, I haven't done anything to the left headlight yet), but your comments make me think that plastic gears are better in an Indy?

Would you (or anyone else) care to offer an opinion?

THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE!



Plastic gears are a good safe weak link in the system. The only place I know that sells them is The Fiero Store. I haven't used theirs in years and don't know if they have gotten the quality issues resolved. I assume they have. But if your motor overheated that badly, it's toast and needs to be replaced.

Your bump stops, though having low use, may be going bad if they're the old green material. If they're the black neoprene that some early motors had, you may still be in good shape.

If you are set on keeping everything original, replacing the two motor relays and rebuilding the motors is the only way to go. The one part that's not produced any more is the Isolation Relay. But for long term dependability, Generation 2 is the way. But if you need to replace the Gen 2 module, I believe The Fiero Store gets nearly $700. Grabbing one from one of several older GM cars is the cheap way. I just bought two from PullAPart for $18.
jscott1 AUG 13, 11:13 PM

quote
Originally posted by davikan:

If that's not a good idea, I honestly don't know what to think about the other options. I have a second metal gear kit from Rodney (no, I haven't done anything to the left headlight yet), but your comments make me think that plastic gears are better in an Indy?

Would you (or anyone else) care to offer an opinion?

THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE!




My opinion is that if you value originality then by all means rebuild the crappy Indy motors. It pains me to say that because I greatly prefer the newer generation. But I have two Indys and I can't bring myself to upgrade them to the Gen2 system. If you had smooth opening lights it would ruin the look and feel of the car. At my last inspection they laughed at me when one light was sluggish to open. That's just part of the deal.
davikan DEC 13, 08:56 PM
It's been four months, but I've finally found more time to devote to my Indy's headlight motors. As of today:

- I've rebuilt the left headlight motor. Surprisingly, the large Nylon gear looked perfect, so I opted not to replace it with Rodney's metal gear. The bump stops turned to green goo a long time ago - no surprise there. I cleaned everything out, put in Rodney's black bump stops, lubed all the gears, and reinstalled the whole thing. RESULT: The headlight will go up, BUT WILL NOT GO DOWN. I can only lower it manually.

- I opened the right motor: you guys are right: it's toast. The armature has melted itself into the larger side of the housing, which cracked despite my being careful while trying to get the armature out.

Fierofool, I may want to purchase one of the motors you mention in your post above. jscott1, I'm with you: the older Indy motors might be crap, but they're original Indy motors. Those of you that have followed any of my posts know that I'm a stickler for preservation when it comes to my Fieros.

But even after getting a replacement for the right motor, I'll still have to figure out what's going on with the left motor only going up. And then there's the original matter of the right motor having spun itself to death. Are these two things related?

As always, I'd appreciate any help the forum could give!!!

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fierofool DEC 13, 09:22 PM
Don't do any more damage to the right side motor that melted. Keep everything. There are still some usable parts inside that can be used to convert a left side motor to a right side motor.

You can pm or email me if you wish to discuss. I prefer email since it's easier to carry a conversation.